AMY: Adult Dating, the Desire to Be Wanted & Leaning Into Fear

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Bobby Bones Show Episode Title: AMY: Adult Dating, the Desire to Be Wanted & Leaning Into Fear
Release Date: April 27, 2025
Host: Premiere Networks

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of The Bobby Bones Show, hosts Amy and Kat delve deep into the intricacies of adult dating, the innate desire to feel wanted, and the role of fear in navigating romantic relationships. By exploring personal anecdotes and psychological concepts, they offer listeners valuable perspectives on fostering healthy and fulfilling connections.

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Understanding Core Feelings

Kat begins by outlining the series' journey through various core feelings essential for personal growth and relationship understanding. Having previously discussed feelings like loneliness, sadness, anger, shame, and guilt, Amy and Kat now turn their attention to fear and gladness.

"[02:01] Kat: And today we're finally getting to fear."

They emphasize the importance of recognizing and understanding these emotions to enhance self-awareness and interpersonal relationships.

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The Role of Fear in Relationships

Kat shares her personal experience with fear within her relationship, particularly focusing on her partner Alex, a widower. She discusses how fear stems from primal questions about being wanted and how it influences her interactions and feelings.

"[20:24] Amy: Well, can I say something really quick before you go into this? ... Amy: I'm glad that you said what you just said, because when we're thinking about feelings, I think a lot of times we think about the biggest one that we have at the moment, and fear can be just there in the background."

Amy adds that fear serves as a gift by highlighting what truly matters, urging listeners to acknowledge it rather than suppress it.

"[14:20] Astro: ... fear shows us that this is important to you. This is something that you care about."

Personal Story: Dating Alex

Kat recounts her journey of dating Alex, detailing the initial fears and uncertainties she faced, such as his status as a widower and having three children. Through therapy, she gains clarity and reframes her fear as awareness rather than weakness.

"[24:21] Kat: My primal question is am I wanted. ... [27:09] Kat: ... it's a piece of me that I deep down wonder if there's really room for me here."

Amy highlights the mutual understanding in their relationship, where both partners recognize and address each other's primal questions, fostering a supportive environment.

"[33:07] Amy: ... but I think your primal question is really the one that didn't. You didn't get a yes answered to the most. And you have to find a way to get a yes."

Therapy and Self-Discovery

Kat emphasizes the transformative power of therapy in understanding and managing fear. She shares how therapy helped her confront and articulate her fears, leading to a healthier relationship dynamic with Alex.

"[03:10] Kat: ... we had therapy in between, and I think the therapy gave me a lot of clarity around my fear."

Amy reinforces the idea that acknowledging fear can prevent negative emotions like anxiety and rage from taking over.

"[16:11] Kat: ... fear isn't weakness. ... It’s awareness."

Embracing Gladness

Transitioning from fear, Amy and Kat explore gladness, discussing its significance in celebrating positive experiences and fostering satisfaction. They warn against avoiding genuine feelings of gladness, which can lead to superficial pursuits for happiness.

"[74:53] Amy: So gladness corny celebration. ... Amy: ... being satisfied in the experience I'm having."

Kat introduces the concept of "savoring the season," encouraging listeners to fully embrace and celebrate their current experiences rather than solely focusing on future achievements.

"[82:19] Kat: ... savor the season. ... Savor the small things. Savor the wins that you're in."

Navigating Adult Dating

Kat shares her experiences with adult dating, highlighting the challenges and rewards of forming new relationships after significant life changes, such as becoming a widower's partner. She underscores the importance of patience, understanding, and self-awareness in building meaningful connections.

"[55:22] Kat: ... this is adult dating. I can adult date."

Amy echoes the sentiment that fear and gladness are intertwined with the pursuit of meaningful relationships, urging listeners to embrace these emotions for personal growth.

"[72:03] Kat: ... fear is my gift because I don't want to have the impairment of fear."

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Notable Quotes

• Kat: "Fear isn't weakness. It's awareness." [16:39]
• Amy: "Fear shows us what we're, what we care about the most." [14:20]
• Kat: "Love is not a limited resource." [31:06]
• Amy: "The fear is a gift." [63:12]

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Conclusion

In this episode, Amy and Kat offer a heartfelt exploration of fear and gladness within the context of adult dating and personal relationships. By sharing their vulnerabilities and strategies for emotional management, they provide listeners with tools to navigate their own romantic journeys with greater self-awareness and resilience. The hosts encourage embracing both the challenges and joys of relationships, emphasizing that understanding and acknowledging one's emotions is key to building lasting and meaningful connections.

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Note: Advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections from the transcript have been excluded to focus solely on the episode's substantive content.

Transcript

[Amy]

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[Kat]

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[Kat]

If you've listened to the four Things podcast for a while, you know how important acceptance is when it comes to personal growth. And you know who else is big on acceptance? Discover. Yeah, you see, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. That's a whole lot of places and a whole lot of acceptance, which is great for Discover, but even better for you, based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card Mother's Day is just around the corner, so I'm already sort of planning things, putting some stuff together for a brunch that we're having. And just a heads up, Macy's is having their Friends and Family event. You can get an extra 30% off your favorite brands and 15% off beauty exclusions apply, of course, but I've got my eye on a floral midi dress from Avec La Fille, so perfect for spring. Shop now in store or@macy's.com and use code FRIEND. The friends and family event goes on from April 24 to May 4. If you ever have feelings and you just want some, maybe a cat got.

[Amy]

You covered like a no brother. Ladies and fellas, we just follow in.

[Kat]

The spirit where it tell us from the real stuff to the chill stuff and the in between. Sometimes the best thing you can do is just stop me.

[Amy]

Feel Things this is Feeling Things with Amy and Kat.

[Kat]

Happy Tuesday. Welcome to Feeling Things. I'm Amy.

[Amy]

And I'm Kat.

[Kat]

And what are we? We're finally getting into Fear and glad, a core feeling we've been waiting on for quite a bit. What core feelings have we covered so far? Lonely, sad, Sad, angry, shame, guilt.

[Amy]

You're counting and I'm counting. What are we at?

[Kat]

I know we've covered lonely, hurt, sad, angry, shame, guilt. Boom.

[Amy]

And now we have two more.

[Kat]

Yeah, so if you missed those episodes, they're the past three Tuesday episodes on the Feeling Things feed so look at a calendar, match up the dates, and catch up on those. Because we are going through all of the core feelings which are very important when it comes to understanding. Well, your feelings and yourself. Yeah, and yourself and others. And today we're. We're finally getting to fear. And the reason why Kat and I are like, we're finally to fear is because we were actually going to do this as the. The second Feeling Things core feelings episode. But I knew I wanted to talk about my boyfriend, and I just wanted to wait, and I'm glad we did. There was just some things we were ironing out on his side, my side. We had therapy in between, and I think the therapy gave me a lot of clarity around my fear.

[Amy]

Well, and the cool thing about that is the lawnmower ruined that episode.

[Kat]

That's right. The.

[Amy]

The weed whacker or whatever. So it's. It was. What does that make possible? And this is gonna be so much better because you had all those conversations. You can talk about it more freely. You've learned more things. You understand your fear more now.

[Kat]

Oh, my gosh. Therapy is such a game changer. And that's why it's important that you're. You're here, because this is a therapy podcast. We're all about that. So before we get into the core feelings that we do have, our feeling of the day, and I actually asked my boyfriend what he was feeling around us, and because I thought, well, you can be a part of the episode, and we'll make your feeling our feeling of the day, I said, so what are you feeling today? And he said, I'm feeling excited because we have our trip to Charleston coming up. That's what he gave me for my birthday. And we don't get a lot of one on one time together because I've got two kids, he has three kids, and we're both working professionals, and we have lives outside of each other. Dang it. Dang it. So sometimes we can go a minute without getting some real quality time. So we're excited for Charleston. And I.

[Amy]

And you've never been.

[Kat]

I've never been. So I also am excited. So we'll get into the gifts and impairment around that word. And then just as we were about to hang up, he goes, another thing that I'm feeling, though. And I said, oh, tell me more is encouraged. And I was like, well, that's a really good feeling too. That is different. But both excited and encouraged fall under glad.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

And the two core feelings we're talking about today are fear and Glad. Glad. Yeah, you nailed it.

[Amy]

Well, I also am feeling excited today, so I'm on the same page, because last today is. Yeah, Last night I had this idea, and I think I'm talking about this because I think, well, I want other people to do this with me because I'm having fun with it. I had this idea come to me. I've always wanted to be in a book club, but I don't want to read the book because I want to read the book that I want to read and not the one that, like, the club's reading. So I decided, why don't I start a movie club where I don't have to spend as much time reading the book? And I imagine a movie club is, in my eyes, more fun than a book club. But I guess a lot of book clubs, they don't actually talk about the book.

[Kat]

Well, I was in a book club in 2000, 2009, I think.

[Amy]

Why do you remember the year?

[Kat]

Because I lived in North Carolina, and I really didn't have that many friends, and book club was not at the top of my list of things to do, however, because I was in a city or a town where I didn't have a lot of friends. I only moved there because my husband at the time was in the Air Force, and we were in Southern Pines, North Carolina, and there was a group that started a book club, and I'm like, I need friends. I'll read.

[Amy]

How did you.

[Kat]

We'll read. We'll read for friends. So I went, and it actually was a lot of fun, and they would definitely talk about the book.

[Amy]

Did you make friends?

[Kat]

Yeah. I mean, we were closer, and of course we got together, and then we would, you know, have that in common. And it was a small town, so sometimes if I run into them, I'd be like, what chapter are you on? And it kind of gives you something to talk about, you know, but it was fun. I mean, but you also talked about other things and caught up on life. So to your point, it's not solely focused on the book. I mean, there's drinks and snacks and hang time, and it definitely nurtured the relationships.

[Amy]

Yeah, well, so I have a friend that is in a book club, and she'll post them, and they. The, like, snacks and decor and stuff every time they meet is the theme of the book, which I thought was really cute. So I said, I'm not gonna do that. I will start a movie club. So myself, my husband, and two other couples are doing this movie club where once a month or Whenever we can make it work, one person picks a movie. They don't tell us what it is. And then you have to cook dinner for us themed of out of that movie. It doesn't have to be like, food that's in the movie. If you had a movie that was in Italy, you could have Italian food. And then I really wanted there to be, like, decor involved. And then, like, maybe you dress up, like the characters. And then, like, I. I said, well, you don't know if somebody's going to, like, like the movie. And it might be one of those things where they don't pay attention. So we should, like, have a quiz at the end, and whoever gets the most questions right wins a prize themed out of the movie. And they are all were like, so we'll just do the dinner and the.

[Kat]

Movie so you don't have to watch it and then show up and talk about it. Y'all are all watching it together.

[Amy]

Yeah. So it's gonna be night.

[Kat]

But I mean, leave it to you to, like, try to for form some sort of a way for you to be best in class. You're like, I get an A. I.

[Amy]

Think I was more concerned of, like, they might not want to watch my movie, so I'm going to force them. Like in school, when your teacher would make you watch a movie and it would be about, I don't know, the environment, and you would have to write down, like, four facts you learned. So I wanted to make sure people were paying attention to my movie.

[Kat]

Yeah, but not everybody has this deep desire to get an A. So it'd be like, okay, whatever, I'll take your quiz. And they're not going to care. Okay. So this is fun. Yeah. You're inviting other people, though. Or are we. Are we in? Are we supposed to watch the same movie y'all are doing? Or they. You just want them to do this sort of thing with their friends.

[Amy]

So I didn't think that through because I can't really invite them to do it because it's a surprise. Like, last night we went to one of their houses, and we walk in and he served us milkshakes. And then they had smash burgers and fries and the special sauce and stuff. Do you know what movie is?

[Kat]

Can I guess? The movie is.

[Amy]

Yes.

[Kat]

Okay. Friday Night Lights.

[Amy]

No. Oh, let me give you more clues.

[Kat]

Okay.

[Amy]

I think I gave you all of them milkshakes in. The milkshake was vanilla.

[Kat]

Okay.

[Amy]

Smash burgers, mayonnaise with fries.

[Kat]

Okay. When Harry Met Sally.

[Amy]

No.

[Kat]

Oh, I don't know.

[Amy]

If you've seen this, it's number eight on IMDb of best movies of all time.

[Kat]

Oh, okay. Well, just what is it?

[Amy]

Pulp Fiction.

[Kat]

Oh, I have not seen that.

[Amy]

Okay, so well then, so you have the meal and then people are like thinking, oh, I know what the movie is. I know what the movie is. But we still didn't know. And then he gave us like facts. He read off facts about the movie right before he watched it to see if. Kind of like on smart list, how they read facts about their guests and they shout out if they know it as the facts go on.

[Kat]

Yeah, this is fun. Yeah, Yeah, I want to do this.

[Amy]

And then they were like, pulp Fiction. And I was like, dang it.

[Kat]

Also, did you like it?

[Amy]

It was two hours and about 40 minutes, so that was hard for me. I'll give you my review. The night was great. The food was great. Top notch. Vanilla milkshake. So good. The movie was long. I can appreciate the writing and I can appreciate how they filmed it because it's not in chronological order. So, like the beginning and the end are like, the end is the beginning, the middle is the.

[Kat]

And so you really have to pay attention.

[Amy]

You really. Well, yeah, but there was. Because of that, there didn't seem like there was like a climax of the movie where you're like, oh, I'm really in it. It just felt like you're trying to figure out when it's gonna get.

[Kat]

Yeah. I gotta admit, I'd be annoyed if I got there. I'd be like, oh, yeah. Smash burgers, fries and vanilla milkshake. And then I would be like, oh, I don't want to watch Pulp Fiction.

[Amy]

But it is one of those movies that I think it's like a piece of art film history. I don't know.

[Kat]

Well, yeah, it's number eight on best movies ever.

[Amy]

According to who?

[Kat]

I don't know.

[Amy]

But yeah, I know. I'm glad I watched it. I probably won't watch it again.

[Kat]

But the idea behind this movie club thing is really good. I like it. Especially the surprise factor of showing up and getting bits and pieces of the movie through food so far. I mean, people could go as far with this as they wanted.

[Amy]

Like, I might dress up.

[Kat]

Clothing. Oh, like if you host. Yeah. Like you might get in a full blown character.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Do you know what movie? Well, don't say, because in case your friend's listening, because it's supposed to be a surprise.

[Amy]

I haven't picked, but I think because they picked a movie that was way out of my Wheelhouse. I don't feel as bad picking a movie that they might not like. Okay. You know.

[Kat]

Well, I get why you're excited. That's fun. Okay. Excited. Which we'll get to the gifts and impairments of excitement in a little bit, because the impairment of excitement. I was already laughing a little bit when I was reading about that, since my boyfriend is excited, and I was.

[Amy]

Like, oh, but he is feeling it, though.

[Kat]

He is feeling excited. Well, okay, I'll give you a little hint into an impairment of feeling excited. Could be you ignore red flag flags.

[Amy]

Oh.

[Kat]

And I'm like, am I a red flag waving say that. Well, no, I don't think I am. Some things I might do. Like, if he's feeling so excited, he might overlook some stuff that I do that could be like, whoops, red flag.

[Amy]

Yeah. Well, hopefully that doesn't happen.

[Kat]

Hopefully not. Just thought it was kind of funny. So when you're excited, you got to be on guard.

[Amy]

Am I. Am I excited and I'm ignoring reality, or I'm excited and I'm still paying attention to the things that aren't maybe so exciting.

[Kat]

Exactly. So we'll touch on that when we get to. Glad we're gonna. We're gonna get to fear, because that is, well, I think something a lot of us experience in a lot of different ways. And the core need behind fear, which, when I tell some of my story with my boyfriend, it's protection.

[Amy]

Yeah. And again, with all of these feelings, the protection could be showing up in a million different ways. So it doesn't just mean physical safety. It doesn't just mean a certain type of I need to guard myself. The protection can come through being vulnerable with somebody and feeling connected to them.

[Kat]

And I was vulnerable with him in therapy the other day.

[Amy]

Yeah. Okay, so let's. I want to get to that story. But before we get into it, the. If you're feeling fear, like you said, need something around protection if you are trying to suppress it. One, I love fear because it shows us what we're, what we care about the most. So it can lead us to things that we don't want to miss out on. And what happens, I think a lot of times is because we don't like fear, and it feels so scary, we end up misinterpreting it. And then we do miss out on things versus it just being a signal of, hey, this is important to you. This is something that you care about. This is something that you're passionate about. Which, if we think about the things we get afraid Of I'm thinking about. I mean, even this, like, when we started feeling fear around, like, I hope it's good. That is showing us that.

[Kat]

I mean, rebranding the podcast.

[Amy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. In that first episode, the first one. But if we didn't have that fear around it, we wouldn't put as much energy into it. We wouldn't put as much care into it. And rather than saying, oh, this is scary, I shouldn't do it, it's. This is scary. It's important to me. I want to pay attention to it. And a lot of. I think a lot of times people too think that in those spaces, if I feel fear, something really bad is going to happen and I'm not gonna be able to handle it. And that's not always true. We can be disappointed through. If something happened and the worst case scenario happened, we can be disappointed and have all those other feelings show up, but it doesn't mean we're going to collapse or we're not going to make it through.

[Kat]

And for. Again, I know sometimes we speak to our. Our two men listening to the podcast, which actually I got a note the other day from. Oh, yeah, a friend. Did I share it with you?

[Amy]

We got an email from a male listener.

[Kat]

Oh, we did, yeah. Oh, I haven't read that one yet. But I did get a note from a male friend of ours, Chase, who sent our episode to two other guys because it related to a topic they were talking about at dinner like a week before. And so I was like, wow, okay, Chase plus two other guys. That's three guys plus. I know there's like two other ones. Miller. Oh, six. So now we have for sure, six men listening.

[Amy]

And Patrick listened.

[Kat]

Okay, seven. Okay. Alex might listen to this one since we're going to be talking about it. Eight. Eight. Wow. In climbing. So, um. Oh, I feel like my sister's husband might listen to this one because we're going to talk about primal questions. He loves primal questions. Nine.

[Amy]

We're almost to double digits.

[Kat]

We're almost a ten.

[Amy]

So. Okay, before we get into your story, I do want to say too, if we ignore the fear, if we're like, I'm not going to touch that, what happens a lot of times is anxiety shows up. Like the not helpful anxiety when we don't know where it comes from or shifts to rage. And the example I use to explain that is road rage. So when I'm driving in my car and somebody cuts me off and I, you know, honk at them, maybe I do a hand gesture towards Them or I throw my hands up in there like. Like that and it looks like I'm really angry. If I really was honest with myself, often I'm feeling scared because you cut me off. I almost hit you, but. Because I don't want to feel that fear. Because a lot of times fear is very vulnerable. I just go straight to anger and that turns into this like big ragey looking thing. Versus that was really scary that you did that. I didn't like it.

[Kat]

Yeah. And fear isn't weakness. That's what I want to speak to too, with the men, and most men are the road ragey ones. Versus there are women that have road rage. But I know it for mostly men in my life.

[Amy]

Yeah, I saw. I experienced road rage from a woman last week.

[Kat]

Okay. Well, yeah, I'm not. It's not a blanket statement, but it happens a lot. With two are eight, nine, maybe ten male listeners. Fear is not weakness. It's awareness.

[Amy]

Yeah, that's a T shirt.

[Kat]

Yeah, that's. Or a hat.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Or a sweatshirt.

[Amy]

Or a candle or a pillow.

[Kat]

A pillow.

[Amy]

But that is important to say a.

[Kat]

Button, a sticker, a pin. You can put it on anything. Anything.

[Amy]

A poster. Did we say that?

[Kat]

I think you said a poster.

[Amy]

Dang it. I'm running out of things. We're gonna move on.

[Kat]

Shoot a buffer sticker.

[Amy]

A banner.

[Kat]

A banner.

[Amy]

Yeah, a flag.

[Kat]

One of the. An airplane with a little message flying around.

[Amy]

A blimp.

[Kat]

If you listen to last week's episode, you know about the blimp situation. But yeah, fear isn't weakness. It's awareness. A tattoo.

[Amy]

Yeah, Temporary tattoo. A barrette.

[Kat]

I don't know if you put that one on. A barrette.

[Amy]

Yeah, you could.

[Kat]

What else could we put this on? I really want to put it on more. A journal, A patch.

[Amy]

A bracelet. Did you say bracelet?

[Kat]

A bracelet. A candle.

[Amy]

I said candle.

[Kat]

Another candle.

[Amy]

A bigger candle.

[Kat]

Okay, let's. A screen table. Oh, good one. Cryo Cat. Okay, from. From the back, we're breaking the fourth wall here. Cryo Cat and Shannon are also in the room with us, so sometimes you might hear them chime in. But let's just get into fear.

[Amy]

Let's say two more.

[Kat]

I'm still a little nervous, but yeah.

[Amy]

An email signature. Ooh, that's a good one.

[Kat]

Sincerely, Cat. Fear is imp. It's awareness. That's a good one.

[Amy]

That's good. Okay.

[Kat]

Yeah, a sign off.

[Amy]

But seriously, that is. I. That's a good point you make. So it's not weakness. It's just showing Us what we care about.

[Kat]

Because for me, that's what was happening is awareness. And I don't know why I'm so nervous to talk about this story, but maybe because we're just going to talk about things that some stuff you maybe have heard me mention, whether here on the podcast before, more vaguely. Other stuff I've said on the Bobby Bone show kind of recently, if you're a listener over there. But I've been thinking a lot about fear even since we recorded the episode that had to get deleted because of the weed whacker. Do you know I have a speech impediment with Rs and W's. And, like, real world is really hard for me to say. And so is weed whacker.

[Amy]

Whacker.

[Kat]

Weed whacker, weed whacker.

[Amy]

I think you told me that. But you also.

[Kat]

I used to do endorsements for West Rock Coffee. West Rock.

[Amy]

West Rock, West Rock.

[Kat]

But I had to, like. I have to warm up. So anyway, good at.

[Amy]

I've always thought you're good at enunciating things.

[Kat]

So not if it's a R and a W. Okay. Situation. Which two W's in a row. Difficult for me. But luckily we had to delete that because now I better understand my fear. And I think that when you're talking about emotions and things that you've been through, the best place to do it from is a place of understanding. And I finally understand it better, and I'm still in a place of fear. I will say I thought I was out of the fear because I finally dated him because the reason why I didn't want to date him is because my boyfriend is a widower. And we'll get more into that in a little bit. But we had a recent therapy session, and I realized, like, oh, I still have so much fear. And this all makes sense, but I'm gonna look at this fear as awareness.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Not weakness. And, yeah, the widower part, it's an important side note here because it's really the whole reason why there is fear. Although I did have other fears that popped up when he was first presented to me as a suitor.

[Amy]

Well, can I say something really quick before you go into this?

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Just for people who are listening and applying this to themselves, I'm glad that you said what you just said, because when we're thinking about feelings, I think a lot of times we think about the. The biggest one that we have at the moment, and fear can be just there in the background, and it would be okay to walk around or be in your relationship that is secure and also have fear right alongside of it. Because fear shows us what is important to us and because fear lets us know, I care about this. You're gonna have fear a version of it. It might not be the biggest, loudest version of it within anything that matters to you. So we don't need to get rid of it. We just need to acknowledge it and feel it.

[Kat]

Yeah. Which is what I'm trying to do. And I have a lot of notes, so I may refer to them just because this is important to me and I want to get it right. But what came up for me in therapy the other day, which I had not thought of at all in my relationship, is my primal question. If you've listened to the Four Things podcast for a while, you know how important acceptance is when it comes to personal growth. And you know who else is big on acceptance? Discover. Yeah, you see, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. That's. That's a whole lot of places and a whole lot of acceptance. Which is great for Discover, but even better for you. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card from.

[C]

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[D]

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[Kat]

But what came up for me in therapy the other day, which I had not thought of at all in my relationship, is my primal question, which is am I wanted? Which I got my primal question from Mike Foster's book seven Primal Questions, which I know you've interviewed Mike, and I'll just quickly run through the seven questions, and then if you want to do more research on that for yourself, we'll link his book in the show Notes. But the seven questions are, am I safe? Am I secure? Am I loved? Am I wanted? Am I successful? Am I good enough? Do I have a purpose? What's yours?

[Amy]

A mixture between am I loved? And am I wanted?

[Kat]

My sister is am I wanted? She's the one that turned me on to this book originally. And then I did the whole test quiz thingy, and I'm am I wanted, too? And I think that's from some stuff from our childhood, so it makes sense. But it's not about just being liked or accepted because I want that, but it's about being pursued, invited, desired, welcomed, and chosen. And for me, the chosen stands out to me because I said that in therapy just the other day, and I felt childish saying it. So it was almost like little me was showing up. And I almost didn't even want to say it out loud because I'm like, this just feels so selfish and childish. I didn't know how else to put it. And I won't get into the details around it because that's more personal. But what I can say is that I decided to just say it out loud. I was like, I just want to say this so that it's out there and so that y'all can know. And then hopefully my therapist could help have more information to guide us. But I was like, it's like, you know, And I felt like if I was a little child, I would kind of be putting my fist down and my foot down, kind of like. Like, I just want to be chosen.

[Amy]

Like, what about me?

[Kat]

And I didn't like it. But then after I said it, it felt better.

[Amy]

Well, what did you feel before you said it?

[Kat]

Well, when it first came up for me, I felt like, oh, I shouldn't feel this way. So I'm not going to say it. This feels wrong. Like, it felt unfair for me to Say, I want you to choose me in this moment. But once I said it, I felt some relief. And then our therapist was able to kind of talk through some of what I was feeling. And then at one point, Alex started, like, fidgeting more, and she was like, what's coming up for you? Because she's very intuitive and kind of looks at body language and figuring stuff out, and he's like, I'm good. You know, it just, like, kept clearing his throat.

[Amy]

She's like, having stuff.

[Kat]

Yeah, I was like, in my mind, I was like, probably gonna need another session.

[Amy]

Wait. But did you notice I just asked you what you were feeling before you said that, and you gave me a thought. I did, yeah. So, yeah, you said. I. I felt like I shouldn't say. I shouldn't feel this way.

[Kat]

Okay, so what did I feel in my body? Yeah, I had tightness in my throat.

[Amy]

What about emotionally?

[Kat]

Well, the. My throat indicates emotion. Like, I felt like I was going to start crying once I finally said it. So I felt like it was something that I needed to get out. And I felt I might need you to walk me through exactly what you're asking.

[Amy]

Lonely. Fear. Guilt. Shame.

[Kat]

Those feelings. There was fear there that I was going to say that and I wasn't going to be chosen. Okay, Is that better?

[Amy]

Well, I mean, all of that's good information, but, yeah, acknowledging that I was afraid because this relationship is important to me.

[Kat]

Yes.

[Amy]

And so I don't want to go there. And as I don't want to lose this and the reality, what I think you're getting to is that was very helpful for you to share that.

[Kat]

Yeah, it was really helpful for me to get it out. And I realized, like, okay, I have this wound from my childhood, some emotional abandonment stuff that went on. And that. That is what that. That primal question. It stems from emotional abandonment neglect or not being invited in, whether as a child or it can happen in friendships or in other romantic relationships. I think I've dialed mine back to some stuff in my childhood and then even in my marriage, some. And so now entering. Exiting that relationship and then entering into a new one, it's almost like, I want to do this right. So there's a lot of fear around that. And when you're dating someone who married the love of their life and then lost them and to something like cancer. And I know it was devastating. In fact, when I met. His wife has a twin sister. So when I met her for the first time, she was very sweet and kind and welcoming and so excited because before his wife passed away, she said to her people, like, I want Alex to meet somebody. Make sure that happens. She didn't want him to be alone because some people, who knows, when they're on their deathbed, they're like, you better not meet anybody. Don't know it's me or you're dead. You know, something like that. So she did want that for him. And she sent me a note after I met her, and she was like, look, Alex has been through hell. I mean, hell. And I've walked alongside people with cancer, and my mom and his wife had something very similar. And their. Even their. Their journey was about two years long. There's a lot of similarities there. And even with his kids, like, they've lost their mom, I've lost my mom. I know what it's like to be in their shoes while it looks different, but I've never dated anybody that has lost their wife. Like, someone they loved and they still love. And so I think when he first was brought into the picture or brought up, which we can get more into that in a little bit and how that happened, but I think I was scared because I'm like, oh, well, he belongs to somebody else. Like, they're still in love, but she's no longer here.

[Amy]

And is that, like, I'm still not gonna be if I'm chosen? I'm still not even really chosen?

[Kat]

I guess so. But I hadn't really worked through all of that until this last therapy session. So even though things are great, there is a part of me deep down that wonders, is there really room for me here? And, like, that's. That's a question that. The lens. Yeah, now I see everything through that lens, through that, through that filter. And that messes with my mind because my deepest fear is not being wanted. So then it's like, oh, okay, now I'm gonna filter everything through that. Like, I was thinking through some stuff that really bothers me at times or makes me wonder at times, does he need me or does he want me? And I know we've talked about that because of. In ways that I show up sometimes, and I'm like, well, this is convenient if you're listening, Alex. Sorry, but you already know some of this. Am I loved fully or just conveniently? And then I tell myself stories like, this will be very difficult with this kids, and they'll never be close to me.

[Amy]

But, yeah, yeah, you make that.

[Kat]

There may not be space there for me, but here's what I'm learning. So thank you, therapy. Love is not A limited resource. Put that on a mug.

[Amy]

Yeah, there's enough. There's enough for it to go around.

[Kat]

More than one time, grief and love can live side by side. And Alex's past doesn't erase my worth. And we get to build a new chapter. Like, what he's been through doesn't change my value to the relationship.

[Amy]

Which one of those things is the hardest, you think?

[Kat]

Probably his past with my current value. Because that's where I'm like, I'm wondering, where do I fit in and how do I belong? But what I have to look at it as is, they can be side by side. And we're writing a new chapter, so. And with ev. With all of our parts.

[Amy]

Yeah. Well, now that he even knows that that is coming up for you, you guys can approach things differently. And with the seven primal questions, one of the things that I found most fascinating about it when I did talk to Mike about when he was coming out with a book, is, well, everybody has the same questions. Everybody is asking those same questions. Your primal question is really the one that didn't. You didn't get a yes answered to the most. And so you have to find a way to get a yes. And there's all these things that we can do to make that happen that sometimes don't allow us to be our actual true selves. But what happens in relationships a lot of times, which might be some of what you guys are going through, is you walk through the world trying to answer because of the lens you have, everybody around you is going to feel wanted, which I will say, you're really good at that. Like, you are very good at making sure people feel wanted around you. But not every. Everybody is asking themselves that question. They could be asking, am I safe? They could be asking, am I love? They could be any of those other questions. And so Alex, at the same time, he's walking around the world with his filter, making sure everybody gets a yes answer to the question that he struggles with the most. And so if his is like, am I safe or am I secure? You are safe and you're.

[Kat]

You are secure, and you're. I wonder what his is now. I want him to take.

[Amy]

I think he should look into that, because that's where, like, he's making sure you get a yes to this one question. But you don't need a yes. You. You have that one covered. And so what you really need is a yes to the wanted. So you. We just kind of, like, miss ourselves in relationships, but if we both knew what each other's question was, then we could show up and help show up with that question versus the one I struggle with. Is that.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Making sense the way I explain that. So he probably feels so wanted by you because that's this magic skill that you have, because you know what it feels like not to feel that. I'm sure everybody around your sister always feels wanted because she's making sure that that doesn't happen to other people. The problem is a lot of people don't. That's not the question they're struggling with.

[Kat]

So I got to figure out his questions so I can make sure to meet his needs. I know I'm, like, trying to guess based on all of those what I think it might be. But it's a really good book. And you don't even. You could read the book, but there's also. You could just do the quiz if you wanted to. But if you want to learn more, it can be very, very helpful. I know it's been helpful with my sister and her husband and their relationship, and they've been married 25 years, and they just read the book, like, a year and a half ago, maybe. And it's been an important tool.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

And so it's never too late.

[Amy]

Yeah. It's like a mixture, I think, of attachment theory and the Enneagram. It's like a combination of those things, if you know what those things are.

[Kat]

If you don't, just take the quiz, make sure you follow this podcast, like, and subscribe, because we will definitely be touching on that. But the fear that I feel is protecting my heart. And so. And that's a gift. Like, I. I want to proceed with caution, but not too much, because then it'll turn into an impairment, because if I don't manage it, then my protection can turn into avoidance, which we don't want any of that. And then the discernment I try to be wise about things could turn into disconnection. So I love alliteration, and I don't want the discernment to turn into disconnection connection. And so instead of asking, like, is this safe? Am I welcome here? Is there room? Then that voice in my head will get louder and louder and louder, which will be like, this will never work. Which. I have said that out loud to him before on the phone. I can think of two different times where I'm like, well, this is not going to work for me. It felt very.

[Amy]

And so in those moments, you were probably feeling fear. But did you know that?

[Kat]

No, I don't think at the Time I had, it was more like frustration. Frustration and just jump. Like, not wanting to maybe have to do some of the hard work that it would take around some of the issues.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Because it will take work and patience. Yeah, Work, patience, consistency, dedication. Things that I want. But sometimes in the moment, it just feels like too much. So it's easier to say, like, this just probably isn't going to work, because.

[Amy]

What happens if it doesn't? And we try and then it doesn't.

[Kat]

Yeah. That was a big fat waste of time. I'm just kidding. I knew you were gonna say that, and you didn't say anything. Well, you. I just breathed. No, I knew you were gonna sigh. I knew you were gonna sigh like you were gonna give, like a. Which what happens is, I would ask myself, well, what does this now make possible? And I will learn from it and I will grow, and it will be a part of my life that I'm still thankful for. Like, it wouldn't be a waste of time. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But at least I gave it a go.

[Amy]

Well, you're right. And again, reminder, if you do. If you were not scared about this stuff, then that would mean that you didn't care. If you didn't care, there would also be no reward at the end of it. There would be no reward in the relationship. So that's one of those things where it's really frustrating because you can't selectively feel feelings. You either feel them all, or you don't get to feel them. And so if I want that joy and that connection, then I also have to put myself in line of fire for something that might not feel as good.

[Kat]

Right. Which I think we got down to, like, that my fear with him is now, is there space for me here? Like, because he's a widower. But I had two other fears that popped up when he was first put on the radar for me. So this would be going back to February of 2024. I'm out to dinner with, actually Chase, who sent our podcast to two other guys. Shout out. Send our episodes to your friends, your male friends, or your friends, your grandma, your mom, your dad, your cousin, your neighbor. Who else could we recommend? I feel like some podcasts are really good about doing that. Recommending that you send this to all your people.

[Amy]

Oh, like specifically your person. Yeah.

[Kat]

Or just send it to anybody. You know, this could change their life.

[Amy]

Definitely send us to your grandfather.

[Kat]

Definitely.

[Amy]

Sometimes they are. They're like, if you're listening and you have a Grandfather, send this to them now. This will change their life.

[Kat]

Okay. Yeah, I know. But I do think that if you know anybody that is maybe gonna date a widower sin in this episode, that actually is true. It is true. Because there are people, we have listeners that have. That are younger, that have lost spouses. They are a widower trying to date, or somebody might be listening where they are potentially being set up with a widower or they're on hinge or wherever, and they see widower and they're like, ah, yeah, don't run away. Well, I'm here to say.

[Amy]

Well, at first you did. So let's go back to February.

[Kat]

Okay, so I go back to February. I'm at a restaurant. I'm at dinner with Chase, and somebody else in our group comes up and is like, amy, Karen Fairchild is over there at a booth. And I know Karen. She is from Little Big Town, and I know her from my work on the Bobby Bones show. So I've known her for over a decade now. And I'm like, oh, would love to go say hi to Karen. Didn't know why she was calling me over, but I go over to her booth, and she's with her friends, and I sit down at the booth and she said, hey, I don't know if you're dating, but I have a guy in my dad group. He would like to take you out. I guess their kids are friends.

[Amy]

What's her dad group?

[Kat]

Well, she just means, like, he's a dad in their group. Like, if there's kids. You know how when you've got kids that are in junior high or high school, they're at sporting events.

[Amy]

Okay, okay.

[Kat]

Group of parents that she's. She was trying to say I'm not super close to him, but I know him.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Kat]

And we have mutual friends. So I see him at things, and I guess he had run into me at Whole Foods. But I did not know this until after our first date, which is kind of weird that he didn't mention this our entire first date.

[Amy]

I wouldn't either, probably. So I get it. But it is weird. It.

[Kat]

It was weird. And then we went out again. I think our second date was technically a hike. He goes, well, you know, we've met before. And I'm like, nah, tell me more, because I did not know that. And now I need you to hurry up and tell me that story because I'm scared. We're in the wilderness together. And now why, why, why did you.

[Amy]

Brings you into the woods? And then he's like, you know I've met you before.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

This isn't our first time. Right. And you're like.

[Kat]

And I'm like, cell service. This would have good information on our. Our first date at a restaurant with other humans around, but. Okay, so in. Was it last week's episode or. No, it was two weeks ago. In one of our Tuesday episodes. We mentioned the. Another guy, and I was at Whole Foods with him.

[Amy]

And he's the one that called you.

[D]

So serious.

[Kat]

And he's the one that alluded to that maybe I was a sociopath. But I'm at Whole Foods with him, and I guess Alex sees me, but I'm with somebody else, so he's like, I'm not gonna go up to her. And he knew what I looked like. Cause he listened to the Bobby Bones show with his kids, and he's from Nashville and whatever. So he waited until the other guy went to a different aisle and I was by myself. And he came up and he just said, y'all do a really great job with the show. And he said that I was like, oh, you mean meet the. The Bobby Bone Show? Like, I wasn't, like, right away, like, oh, like, assuming I knew exactly what he was talking about. But I think I was so caught off guard with how he did it that, I mean, I was like, in the freezer section. I remember exactly what happened now. I just don't know the words that were exchanged or that it was him. But once he told me about it, I was like, I do remember a man coming up to me and saying, my kids and I listen to the show. But he said that. He said specifically, you do a good job with the show. My kids and I listen. And that I responded with some like, oh, were you talking about the Bobby Bones Show?

[Amy]

Or.

[Kat]

I'm just making sure you know who I am. Like, he liked that I wasn't overly confident that obviously you're talking about the Bobby Bones show, because I really wasn't sure.

[Amy]

That's interesting that you didn't know.

[Kat]

Well, I just felt like the whole thing was just a little weird, but it's obviously good. Whatever I did was good, because then he was intrigued. That's what made him want to meet me, like, for a date. So that's why when he saw Karen. So let me give you a timeline. He told me he thinks that that happened around December of 2023. And then he ran into Karen at a Super bowl party, like, two months later, 2024. Cause Super Bowl's early February. And said, hey, do you know Amy Brown. Well, guess what. I ran into Karen at dinner, like, the day after the Super Bowl. Do you know how many times I've run into Karen the entire decade or longer that I've known her?

[Amy]

Two.

[Kat]

No, never.

[Amy]

One.

[Kat]

I've never run into her at dinner, so.

[Amy]

Once.

[Kat]

Exactly. But I happened to run into where the day after she saw him, and he asked about me. Isn't that weird?

[Amy]

That's. That is weird.

[Kat]

Right? So I was like, okay. So we're sitting there, and we're talking at the booth, and she is telling me all these things about him. Let me see. She said. I wrote down things she said. She's like, he's a really nice guy. He's a businessman, 50 years old or so, has three kids. He's an athlete. I'm like, what? What does that mean? Well, later I learned that he is, like, a track star. So he ran track at uva, and he still has a hurdle record. Nobody's broken it from high school.

[Amy]

So the first thing he brings up.

[Kat]

On, he has that. Then we look at his picture, and I'm like, okay, yeah, he's cute, but he seems a little professional and buttoned up. And then I see, like, later. This is later on when I'm about to go out with him. He'd been promoted to, like, CEO, And I'm like, what? I cannot. His company's based in New York. Like, I play easy trivia at work. It just felt like the. It would be off.

[Amy]

Like, he's not gonna. You're not gonna be on the same page. Yeah.

[Kat]

Like, what will we have in common?

[Amy]

He's a businessman, and you do easy trivia.

[Kat]

Right.

[Amy]

That doesn't.

[Kat]

We don't match. And so my first fear was he has three kids. So I had a lot of fear around that. And I was like, oh, three kids. That was a little red flag because I've got two, and they're older. They're like, my daughter's about to be 18. And so then.

[Amy]

Well, you were hot on not dating Sunny with kids.

[Kat]

Yeah. Or they need to be grown.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

No kids or grown kids. I was hot on that. My next fear was I'm not smart enough for him or athletic enough.

[Amy]

Oh, you took that high school track star thing to heart.

[Kat]

Well, he's very. He's still very athletic. Fit. Okay and athletic.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Kat]

Yeah. He does some of these core interest.

[Amy]

That's interesting that. Like, what do you. What did you assume he wanted in somebody?

[Kat]

Not me. Yeah, not me. Because I was like, why? What? Like, I. Someone totally Different. And, you know, other things about him, too, where I'm like, I do not fit that mold. Like, there's parts of his lifestyle where I'm like, okay. And sometimes we go do some of those things. And I. His friends, they're very welcoming. So I. That's probably me being judgy. I'm not trying to be judgy, but, like, that's just not my.

[Amy]

It was.

[Kat]

Inside, it's intimidating. Like, this is a different crowd, but they've been very welcoming.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

So that's. Shame on me for thinking that. But I just didn't think I fit that mold. But then I was like, oh, no, he's very silly and playful, and he's not that. What's the word I would use? Pretentious. Pretentious is the word. And so he's not that. And I was like, oh, great. Like, I judged him.

[Amy]

But, yeah, you almost didn't go out with him because of a lot of that stuff.

[Kat]

Yeah, well, some of that I didn't know yet, because that's what I got to know. But the two main fears when she's talking to me is she's like, three kids. I'm like. And then she's like, his job. And I'm like, yeah, I'm not smart enough for that. And then she says, also, there's one more thing. And I said, what? And she said, he's a widower. And instantly I said, okay. Like, in my mind, I was like, I'm out. Not happening. I don't have the bandwidth for that. I don't even understand. I don't want to take the time to understand. Like, that sounds, like, scary. Too scary for me right now. I just started dating. This is like a wild ride. So, yeah, thank you, but no, thank you is sort of. I think I was like, well, let's circle back.

[Amy]

Is that what you said?

[Kat]

Something like that? Or like, oh, let's just see where this goes. I just started dating. Like, I don't know, like, we'll touch base.

[Amy]

Which is a really kind way to say, like, not gonna probably happen.

[Kat]

Yeah. So that was February, and then come July, she circled back.

[Amy]

Well, something had happened between.

[Kat]

No, that wasn't until October.

[Amy]

Yeah. Huh.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

The person that you.

[Kat]

No, I hadn't started dating him yet. No, I know what you're gonna say, and I'll tell you why. Because it's not until October. So July, she circled back to me because he reached back out to Karen, like, hey, any luck from February to July? Any luck with that Amy Brown? Yet. And I guess he went through Karen because we both are in country music. And he thought after he met me at Whole Foods, like, oh, Karen might. No, Amy. And she's like, well, let me see y'all. So she did. She messaged me, and she was like, hey, that guy is dying to take you to coffee or lunch. And then I thought, well, dying is an interesting word. I remember thinking that right when I read it. Of course, I didn't say that back to her. So then fast forward to July, and Karen is circling back because I guess Alex circled back with her, like, hey, it's been a minute since February. Just anything from Amy. And I had just moved, and life was hectic, and I was still terrified of all the things, the three kids. I'm not smart enough, and he's a widower.

[Amy]

And you're like, don't you know that will circle back means don't ever bring it up again.

[Kat]

Well, no, I really do think I was. I do think part of me was still curious. And it just. It's all about timing. Like, it had to be the right time. So what happened was, though, whenever I said, let me circle back, I did start dating somebody else. And then that was kind of, you know, a thing for a minute, and I thought it was evolving into more of a thing, more than he thought, of course, because come October timeframe, I'm getting ready to go on a date with him, and I get a call from a friend that's like, hey, are you still dating? So? And so, ta da, da da. And I said, yeah, he's actually about to come pick me up right now. And she said, well, I'm at dinner right now with somebody that is going out with him tomorrow for lunch. And I'm like, oh, a lunch date? And they met on an app. And I was like, he's on an app? Because I knew we weren't exclusive because we hadn't had that conversation. But, you know, I just felt like it was an unspoken exclusive.

[Amy]

Well, part of it is, too. You guys had such trouble finding time.

[Kat]

To hang out because you were so.

[Amy]

Both so busy with, like, your kids and work.

[Kat]

Yeah, we were so busy. So it's like how he was busy with other people. Trust me. So now I know. But we go out, and I'm trying to be cool because I can't really bring this up because we hadn't had the exclusive conversation, and I don't want to be crazy, so I'm trying to be cool. I'm like, be cool, be cool, be cool. Be cool. And then all of a sudden I'm like, hey, I didn't ask for some information that I now have and I don't know what to do with it. And he's like, well, what is it? If you've listened to the Four Things podcast for a while, you know how important acceptance is when it comes to personal growth. And you know who else is big on acceptance? Discover. Yeah, you see, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. That's a whole lot of places and a whole lot of acceptance. Which is great for Discover, but even better for you. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card from.

[C]

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[D]

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[Kat]

I didn't ask for some information that I now have, and I don't know what to do with it. And he's like, well, what is it? And I said, I know you have a lunch date tomorrow. And again, I didn't ask for it, but I guess it's just, like, now it. It's bringing up the question of, like, what are we doing?

[Amy]

And it feels weird holding that information without sharing it with him.

[Kat]

Right. And he just kind of is like, oh, shoot. And then the way they met, like, I won't say how. I. I did say it was an app, but remember it was.

[Amy]

Do you remember?

[Kat]

Oh, yeah.

[Amy]

I'm like, the apps are fine.

[Kat]

No, we're fine. We're pro apps. Apps are fine.

[Amy]

But this was, like, just interesting. Like, to be on that app, you have to be on a lot of apps, I'd imagine. Right.

[Kat]

I feel like this is the lowest of the low. Okay. So, no, not that.

[Amy]

We're just.

[Kat]

There's probably lower.

[Amy]

It just was interesting. It was very curious, especially if you've.

[Kat]

Already met somebody that you're hanging out with.

[Amy]

Why am I on that?

[Kat]

It seems just a little more strange, shall I say? I'm not gonna say. Okay, fine, I'll say it. Like, desperate. Just a little. Just a little.

[Amy]

Okay, I will say.

[Kat]

But I've been desperate. I get it. But I also will say he's older.

[Amy]

Yeah, but that. That's a part of it. Like, that app might not be as interesting to other people. Like, I think those apps are probably more marketed to older people. And Hinge and Bumble and stuff like that is more marketed towards younger people.

[Kat]

Let's just say I didn't even know it existed. This existed.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Until it was not anything dirty either.

[Amy]

So I don't want people to, like, be like, yeah, it was nothing nefarious. It was just like.

[Kat]

Didn't know. Okay. Didn't know that was a thing. That's the thing. So he's like, oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, I'm going now. And then I couldn't help myself, and I just said it again, and I was like, yeah, you're having. I know about lunch with Leslie, and I just go out and I say it, like, the whole thing. And he's like, oh, you know her name. You know everything. I'm like, yeah, my friend's literally with her right now, and I'm sure she's lovely and great and yay. I just need to know, like, what. What is going on with us? Because if you're gonna be Dating other people. Then I need you to know that I'm gonna date other people too. Because I have people that want to date me.

[Amy]

I have person.

[Kat]

I have so many men. One man. I have men that have been hitting me up for eight months.

[Amy]

I have man who's been hitting me.

[Kat]

Up for eight months. I have the same man. He has been trying to date me since February. Okay, that reminds me of the I have purse.

[Amy]

Have you seen I have person. I have hat on head.

[Kat]

I am very desirable.

[Amy]

I am wanted.

[Kat]

I'm wanted by this man. Right? Like, I don't even know at this point now how to get a hold of him, but I'm going to figure it out. Okay?

[Amy]

So he'll be circling back with me soon.

[Kat]

At this point, he could have met somebody else and married her. I don't, because so much time had passed. But I was like, it's cool. You can date. I'm going to date. And he goes, well, I would still like to keep getting to know you, if that's okay. And I said, that's cool.

[Amy]

I'm cool.

[Kat]

It's cool. This is adult dating. I can adult date. You have your lunch with Leslie and I will talk to you later. So then we finished our date. He left. And I guess it was like, the next day I sent Karen a message and I was like, is that guy still available? And so that just really like, lit a fire in me to get out there and adult date. So I decided, well, that's what my therapist kept calling it. She's like, amy, this is adult dating. Cause I don't want to date multiple people. But she's like, this is. You're getting to know yourself. You just got out of a long marriage. This is what adults do. And if you're honest about it, that is the adult dating part.

[Amy]

That was the problem is there was no. You had no idea.

[Kat]

But I didn't think he had to tell me. But I mean, I guess he did. He didn't have to tell me. I. We just never talked about it at.

[Amy]

The point you guys were at. I think it personally.

[Kat]

Yeah, you could have hung out with him.

[Amy]

Yeah, yeah. But I just think it would have been fair for. If he was going to be dating other people, to let you know for many reasons. So you're being understanding of him. And I think that is very cool. Like you said of you. And I also think it's fair for you to be like, at that point, it would have been really fair for you to also let me know if you're Gonna be dating other people, Right?

[Kat]

So, yeah, I decided to hit Karen up, and I'm like, is that widower still available?

[Amy]

Is that the text?

[Kat]

I don't think I said it exactly like that, but I'm like, you know that guy? The only guy that you've been trying to set me up with since February. What's crazy, because, yeah, I want to go out. And so fast forward, we went out, and then we're pretty much dating ever since. So we went to dinner, and it was great. And then we went on the hike, and that's when he was like, well, so, you know, we've met before. And I'm like, nope. He's like, I came up to you at Whole Foods, and I was like, oh. And that's what I realized. I do remember that, but I didn't. I wouldn't remember exactly what he looked like.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

And.

[Amy]

Well, also, this is important, I think, to add for your fear and, like, also thinking about trusting the process, too, is if that situation with the other guy never happened. I think part of the motivation was like, oh, I have person who is interested in me, so I want to go and date to, like, a little bit of. Not even, like, revenge, but, like, I can do this too. But another part is, you would have never been interested in that person, I don't think, if you hadn't gotten used to the idea, because that other guy had kids.

[Kat]

Oh, three. Three kids. Three kids. Almost the exact same age, too. He did warm me up to the whole kid thing, for sure. And, yeah, he had his lunch with Leslie, and I had my afternoon with Alex.

[Amy]

Didn't Leslie cancel lunch?

[Kat]

Oh, she did cancel lunch, but I think they eventually did go out. But she did cancel, which. That is the funny part. She did cancel the lunch that day, and I do think they went out. And that guy's great, by the way. He's a really nice person. It just wasn't gonna work. We were looking for obviously different things. But even when I first started dating Alex, he said he was looking for a relationship. And I said, well, I'm adult dating. And so I'm just letting you know. But then, like, a weekend to trying to adult date. That's exhausting to me. It's really not my vibe. So I decided, I'm gonna give it a go. So I told the other guy, I'm gonna give this other guy a go. I've started seeing somebody because he's interested in me, and I'm gonna give it a go. I do think, yes, I was warmed up to the three kids. And now we have five kids total, which is so fun in our dating relationship. And the professional thing, like me not feeling smart enough for him. Not a concern. He's very, very smart, and he's a lawyer, and. But he's not weird about it.

[Amy]

Okay. He is very smart. 100%. You are knowledgeable and intelligent about things that are different to someone. Like, you have.

[Kat]

That reminds me. In his first card that he ever wrote me, he said, like, I've already learned so much from you in a short period of time. And I instantly looked at him, and I was like, what have you learned from me? Prove it. I don't believe it. What have you learned? And he was like, a lot. And I'm like, like what? It's like, I almost don't believe that I'm capable of teaching him something, because I see him as so wise. Like, he's academically, but also, like, he's a wise father and friend and, you know.

[Amy]

So what did he say? I'm just kidding.

[Kat]

I don't remember exactly. But I did challenge him right away. But that was my own insecurity, and I shouldn't have done that. Yeah, it wasn't. You don't do that. Someone writes you a nice card, you're not like, oh, yeah, Prove it. I think he was like, next time.

[Amy]

You have to write them out. Right.

[Kat]

But he's so excited about me. Didn't see that red flag. It's a huge, huge red flag. But I will say that's not a concern anymore. He's professional, but he can be as buttoned up as I thought. Apparently. I haven't seen this side of him, but remember how I told you about his wife's. Which. This part's always weird. I don't know what to say, because it's like, it's his wife's sister, but his wife's. His late wife's sister. She told me so his last name is Wadi. She told me that wedding Wadi is a lot of fun. And I'm like, who's wedding Lottie? She's like, oh, just wait. Apparently, it comes out at weddings.

[Amy]

Any wedding. That's a huge.

[Kat]

Like, not his wedding, just any wedding.

[Amy]

That is a huge bonus. You never want to be with somebody at the wedding who's like, I know. I don't want to dance. I love dancing at weddings. Oh, my gosh.

[Kat]

So have that to look forward to. I don't. I don't know. Well, when we're gonna go to a wedding.

[Amy]

But only I was getting Married again.

[Kat]

Cryo Cat's in here, and she just got on Raya, and she said that has already promised her all kinds of goodies. Oh, just kidding.

[Amy]

So she's having a good time.

[Kat]

Maybe we'll go to Cryo Cat's wedding or something. But he is a silly person. He's an amazing dad. I wrote down things about him. He was in a loving marriage. Sadly, his wife died way too young from colon cancer. So I will say this. If you have any symptoms of any kind, urge your doctors to take it one step further. If they even think it's hemorrhoids. Because in her case, they did think that. They were like, well, you've got three kids. You have a very active lifestyle. Some of what she was seeing in the blood, they were like, you're too young. This isn't colon cancer. Like, you're a young, healthy white woman. And it was colon cancer. And they got the colonoscopy and found it too late, and she passed away far too young. So that is part of his mission, his kids, his colon cancer awareness. He wears all these rubber bracelets on his wrists, and at first I was like, what is. Why do you have so many. And for every year that they've had a colon cancer awareness walk or fun run, and he's like, well, if I just wear one, he's kind of added to it, but he's like, if I wear one, nobody asks anything. But if I have multiple, they may ask me. And if they ask me about it, then I get to talk about it. Talk about it in a way that, hey, you never know. Maybe they'll go get tested or share with somebody else. Because it is a growing concern amongst young people. And his wife passed away. And, yes, that makes him a widower. There's some fear around that. And now that I'm in it, I'm realizing some fear that still shows up because of my primal wounds, my primal question. And that's okay. I'm gonna lean into it, because I want the gifts of my fear, not the impairments. My fear.

[Amy]

Yeah. The fear is a gift. The fear is a gift.

[Kat]

If you use it, it's helping me move forward with wisdom.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

The fear I have right now with where we currently are in our relationship, it allows me to move forward with wisdom, not just emotion.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Because if we were to move forward with my emotion all the time, and let me tell you, this relationship would be like whack a mole.

[Amy]

Yeah. That's for anybody, though. So as you were talking, I was thinking about times That I maybe wish I was aware of my fear, because it could have stopped me from saying something in a good way. Because Alex is a CEO. He was when you met him, right?

[Kat]

Yeah. By the time I started dating him, he had just become CEO, which.

[Amy]

I know what that is. Chief Executive Officer. Yes. Yeah. I had a client one time. This is probably. Honestly, this wasn't that long ago. This was maybe three years ago. I want to say it was six, but it was like three. Not that that would really matter, because I still should know this, I guess.

[Kat]

Kat and I have adhd. If anybody new is listening. We love to give details in a story that don't really matter.

[Amy]

In my head. They matter.

[Kat]

They do matter. But to most people, they don't.

[Amy]

It builds up the story. I don't know.

[Kat]

I know. We'll introduce timelines, characters, all kinds of stuff that doesn't matter.

[Amy]

But what I was wearing that day, it was virtual. I will say that in a session was virtual. And my client was talking about how. She was like, yeah, I am. I don't know. I might get this promotion, and it could lead to being in the C suite, some version of that. And I said to her, well, what is the C suite? Like?

[Kat]

By the ocean.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

I was like, where are you going?

[Amy]

And she was like, you know the C suite. And I was like, I don't know where that is. And she said, it's like the CMO and the CFO and the. What else is there?

[Kat]

Coo.

[Amy]

Yeah. And I was like. And my thought was, what are all those things? I know. CEO.

[Kat]

I didn't know there's mo.

[Amy]

Did I say that?

[Kat]

I don't know.

[Amy]

Chief Marketing Officer. I think you can have a.

[Kat]

Operations officer. Finance. Yeah. They're. Yeah. C suite. So they had a. Yeah. That's so funny you're sharing this, because I learned that through Alex, too. And I'll tell you what happened.

[Amy]

It wasn't three years ago.

[Kat]

No. It was like a couple of days into our dating, in fact. Oh, my gosh. It might have been after the hike.

[Amy]

The second date.

[Kat]

Yeah. Or maybe we went hiking again. I don't know. We went hiking. A few things. Let me tell you, hiking Alex really won me over, because I think professional Alex, more buttoned up Alex. I was like, oh. Again, I wasn't able to, like, really see him.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

But then hiking Alex, I was like, oh, this is my vibe. Sort of like, oh, can you imagine? When I meet wedding Lottie, I come to be like, hey, where have you been? Which I've Seen little pieces of that, but I'm excited. It's like a part of him that I get to look forward to. But so somebody get married fast. Invite us to a wedding. So hiking Alex. We've gone on multiple hikes, and that's when I was really like, oh, okay. This energy, this vibe. I really like it. Like a style, everything perfect, my jam. So we went hiking one day and decided to go get a smoothie after. And we were trying to look up which smoothie place to go to, and then we went to one, and it was closed. And I was like, shoot, where are we gonna go? Because this was the closest one. So I picked another location. And E rose that was on, like, it really wasn't that convenient. But we decided to go anyway, because why not? It was a beautiful day, so we went for a drive, and we go there. And then as we're approaching it, he's like, oh, he's like, this building right behind the smoothie place, he goes, that's where my wife worked. There's actually, like, a plaque there for her. Like, she won an award. And there's this whole thing. He's like, I haven't been here, like, since then. And I could tell, like, he just got really quiet and shut down. And I'm thinking, okay, what do we do? Should we not go get the smoothie? Like, should I just be like, we don't need a smoothie anyway, or do we lean in? Do we go, I don't know. We haven't been dating that long. Do we go visit the plaque? I don't know what to do. So I just. When you don't win in doubt, just say nothing.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

So I sat there allowing him to process, and I was like, oh, wait for it. Wait for it. We get the red light, then it's the green light. We turn in. I'm like, we're. Okay, we're going. So we park and we get the smoothie. And he's like, after we get our smoothies, would you want to walk over and see her plaque thing? And I'm like, I would love that. So I'm thinking, okay, this is. Things are escalating because now we're really going to be talking about her. Like, this is a special thing for them. So we're walking over, and he's like, oh, yeah, she worked at this hospital. She was a C suite executive. And in my mind, I'm like, I have no idea what that is. So it's funny you did not know, but I was like, what does that Mean, but I.

[Amy]

Did you say it?

[Kat]

No. You. You asked your person. But I didn't.

[Amy]

I wish I had some fear and was like, heather, you can Google it later.

[Kat]

Well, if he's listening right now, now he knows that's what I did. I googled it later because of course I acted. I was like, oh, yeah, she's so cool. Oh, yeah. I love the C suite.

[Amy]

I love going to the C suites.

[Kat]

Like, the best. Yes. It's my favorite building. Like, I don't. I don't. I. I didn't know. So we go over and we're, like, looking, but the building is locked because it's a Sunday or a Saturday. But we can look through. And we're looking through the. And it's a big plaque thing. It's not like a little, like, I was thinking, oh, it's going to be like a little brick. Like, my mom, Judy, again, they had similar cancers. She has a little brick at St. Jude. So I was like, oh, there's lots of bricks are going to be a thing. But it was this whole thing. Like, I think she now has, like, maybe an award they hand out in her honor or something. And so I finally peek through and I see, and I'm like, oh, there it is. And we had that moment. And I'm, like, thinking, what do we do now? Like, how long do we stay here? Is it like a moment of silence? Like, it's all these different things of, like, respectfully. But he was cool. It wasn't anything awkward. He was proud of her. It opened up conversation for us to talk about her. And then when we were walking back to the car and we've got our smoothies, I'm like, how are you feeling? Like, what do you need right now in this moment? And he said. I don't remember exactly how he said it, but in a nutshell, he said something like, I feel good. Like, she's speaking to me and giving him permission to.

[Amy]

She just wanted to say hi, date.

[Kat]

And like, hey, this is good. I like this. Or like, almost like a stamp of approval for me that this was happening.

[Amy]

Wait, that is actually so cool that that's where you ended up going. And then you got to see that. And that was her being like. Like, hey, guys. Yeah.

[Kat]

Because we were not going to go to that smoothie shop. Hey, it's not even the first one we went to. The first one we went to was closed. And then I probably normally would have just been like, forget it. We'll just make a smoothie at home, because this is not where we're going. And then, yeah, all that unfolded, and he said. He goes, I feel like she's speaking to me. I think that's exactly how he said it. Like, I don't even know if he said, this feels good. I think I said, what are you feeling right now? And he said, I feel like she's speaking to me. And so that was very comforting. And it also gave me peace in a moment that I needed it. It's almost like she was speaking to me, too, of, like, I give you permission to be with him. So not.

[Amy]

That's really cool.

[Kat]

I've had conversations with her, really, but that's what it felt like.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

You know, my mom's a cardinal and my dad's a blue jay. They've told me things. I only moved last summer because my mom came to me as a bird and told me to move. So is it that crazy that she could be speaking to me from her C suite? I think. I think not. Yeah. So then, of course, yeah, I get home and I'm like, c suite executive. And I was like, oh, well. So then guess what? Guess what shows back up because she obviously was a successful professional.

[Amy]

Wait, what? Guess what?

[Kat]

Fear of like. Again, I'm. Then that story comes in because my filter of, am I? Is there space for me here? My turbulence was right. I didn't even know what the C suite was. Wow. She was this executive. Oh, wow. She has an award after. Oh, wow. People really respected and looked up to her. Oh, her career was amazing. Again, like, I.

[Amy]

Well, that's you comparing to, like, measure up versus. Both of those things can exist at the same time. They don't have to be the same.

[Kat]

So that is that fear. So there we go. Fear.

[Amy]

So now you have all the wisdom.

[Kat]

Now I have all the wisdom. And fear is my gift. I'm using fear as my gift because I don't want to have the impairment of fear. I don't want to miss out on anything. But also, you got to be patient and you got to listen and you got to ask questions.

[Amy]

Use it as wisdom.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Kat]

It's not a weakness. It's awareness.

[Amy]

Cool.

[Kat]

Where are we going to put that on everything?

[Amy]

I was going to start naming them.

[Kat]

What if we start naming them again? Turning off someone's like, this podcast is glitching. They keep repeating themselves. Okay, so now we have another feeling to get into. I feel like fear took a long time, but there was just a lot to get out there.

[Amy]

Would you still want to go through gladness?

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Kat]

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[Amy]

So gladness corny celebration. So again doesn't mean a party all the time. It could just mean. It could mean acknowledgment, but like some form of celebration of whatever is happening, it can Be very small. It could be a party. Why are you looking at me like that?

[Kat]

I'm just taking it all. Okay. Was I looking at you weird?

[Amy]

You were looking at me like, celebration.

[Kat]

No, it is. I think I'm just, like, processing. Like, I have a lot of emotion having just told a lot of that. So I think I'm like. Like I'm glad that it's now like.

[Amy]

You did it.

[Kat]

I did it. And I shared some things, especially like the. The pick me, the chosen part. And then the stuff I haven't really told. I haven't told that story about his wife. In fact, I didn't plan on telling that story about the smoothies and his wife. So that just sort of came up for me for the first time in a while.

[Amy]

Yeah. Well, so maybe you noticing. I feel glad. You might need to later acknowledge that and celebrate yourself for being vulnerable and sharing something, because there's a reason you shared those stories.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

And there also might be other feelings that we've already talked about popping up, too.

[Kat]

Okay.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Kat]

So deep breath.

[Amy]

So. And this is why it's important to acknowledge your gladness. Because if you don't acknowledge your gladness, what will happen? If I'm trying to avoid all that real, authentic gladness that I have, I'll end up. Because I'm going to want to feel some form of goodness, manufacturing it in these inauthentic ways that can be through shopping, it can be through drugs and alcohol, it can be through sex, it can be through. I mean, you name it, something that you're just going to go get that feel good, but it just leads you to needing another one. And it's these. Just, like, not as fleeting. Yeah, fleeting. I was going to say, like, not as deep and emotional and meaningful. It's not like meaningful sex with a partner. It's like just random bang. It's a bang.

[Kat]

It's a banging bite. I don't know. That's not. I just. Alliteration.

[Amy]

You're hot on those. You said adventure Alex earlier, too. I like that.

[Kat]

Yeah, I did that on purpose because.

[Amy]

Of lunch with Leslie.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Okay. So if you are aware of it, though, it offers you a space to acknowledge what really matters to you. Again, it offers you a space to be able to build hope when you don't have those experiences. And it allows you to be deeply satisfied. And that is, I think, something a lot of people struggle with is like just being satisfied. And I know I struggle with this because I talked on the fifth thing back in the day at the Beginning of the year of my word, of the year. Being savor. Because something I struggle with is I look forward to things more than I actually enjoy being there. So by the time a trip comes, I'm already sad versus savoring and really being satisfied in the experience I'm having. And so that leads me sometimes to just scheduling something else or looking forward to the next thing versus soaking in the actual experiences that I'm having. Something I need to work on. I think a lot of people also struggle with this Brene Brown, which we all. Most of us know who that is. She's wonderful. She's like the fairy godmother of feelings.

[Kat]

If you don't know, no judgment. Just Google it.

[Amy]

You can pretend like you do and.

[Kat]

Then Google it later, but Renee Brown's amazing. She basically is. Should be in a C suite if she's not.

[Amy]

She has.

[Kat]

She has to be. She probably. She's all Bernay Brown incorporated.

[Amy]

She talks about this concept called foreboding joy. And that's that experience that when something good happens, you don't allow yourself to really feel it. You're just kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop. And you. A lot of times can even acknowledge that of like, you get. Maybe you get good news and you're like, yeah, I mean, who knows how long this will last? Or you start dating somebody and you're like, I'm not going to get excited about it because he could, like, break up with me tomorrow. And that is us trying to protect ourselves because, you know, we can get that stuff taken away at any time. But it doesn't feel. Yeah. Yeah. It's those working hand in hand. When I could acknowledge. Yeah, this is really scary. I could lose this promotion. I could lose this relationship. I could. I don't know, maybe you just bought a house and you're waiting to close and you're like, it could. That. It could. Something that could happen in between that. When you're.

[Kat]

It might be full of mold.

[Amy]

Yeah, yeah. Or the seller might change their mind. Who knows? But what happens is we remove the ability and the opportunity for us to actually feel that excitement. If something bad is gonna happen, something bad's gonna happen. Right. We can't really stop fate from happening in those spaces. So what is it gonna hurt to allow ourselves to really experience and feel the excitement or the gladness when it.

[Kat]

Comes and celebrate that and be in it. Yeah. I know. Your calendar thing is, like, legit real. Like, it's a thing.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Like you. You greet like you. When your wedding Ended. You were like, what do I have to live for now? Because that was like the most exciting thing because there was so much build up to that and it was so much fun and exciting. There was always like, I mean, think about it. You had showers, bachelorette trip, different parties, events, all these things you had to look forward to. And then all of a sudden, your calendar, it's gone.

[Amy]

Yeah. And I loved planning the wedding. I really actually did enjoy.

[Kat]

Well, you like things on your calendar.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Things to do.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

And so I had to talk about that a lot. I think I probably shared it with you a lot because I didn't want to get to my wedding and be sad, you know?

[Kat]

Yeah. My sister shared something with my niece because she is in her later years of college and kind of already starting to think about the next thing. And my sister encouraged her recently to live in her seasons because when my sister was in her final year of college, she was gonna get married. So she instantly started planning her wedding. And she feels like going from one season to the next, which happens, but it's sort of like they bled into each other. And she feels like she missed out on some of her college experience focusing on the next season that wasn't even there yet. And so I just. That felt relatable at this moment of sometimes to be in the season that you're in and then move on to the next instead of getting so excited about the next season because you may miss out on something that is right there in front of you.

[Amy]

Well, and if that's coming, it's coming. I struggled with that when I was dating Patrick in the beginning. I just wanted to be like. Get to the point where we were more serious or get to the point where we were engaged or get to the point. And I had to slow my role and be like, if this is the person I marry, I'm never gonna have a boyfriend again. So I want to like, have fun having a boyfriend and also have fun not having all of the stuff, the. The, like the hard stuff. You know, in the beginning you just get to. It's like, oh, fun, whatever. I don't have to consider all the other parts. And that was something I had to continuously. And I think a lot of people might be relating to that because when they are excited about something, they just want it versus go through the seasons of what that was.

[Kat]

Savor and save. Savor the seasons. Yeah, put that on a savor.

[Amy]

The seasons will be the next drop.

[Kat]

After we already creating our.

[Amy]

Our merch that like we're not buying either of those.

[Kat]

They were like, I don't want that on a banner.

[Amy]

I'm not buying your screensaver.

[Kat]

I don't want that on a pencil.

[Amy]

Mostly because people don't use pencils.

[Kat]

But savor the season. I think that's a good one. It's a good reminder of not because. Savor the moment. Savor the season. Well, like the two S's, but it's like savor the small things. Savor the wins that you're in. Because, yeah, I think a lot of people, especially career wise, they're like, oh, accomplish that milestone onto the next, and you don't spend an appropriate amount of time celebrating whatever just happened, big or small. Yeah, you just kind of like move on. Because if you don't, you feel like you're going to get behind.

[Amy]

And yeah, either because I have to get to the next thing I'm going to get behind or something bad's gonna happen. Those two things, both of them can get in the way.

[Kat]

Right.

[Amy]

So gladness is a lot. I know you said when we first brought this up, not when we're recording. Like, that's a weird one. Like, obviously you feel glad, but there is a lot of stuff behind Gladys that makes it difficult for people to feel.

[Kat]

Well, I know that. Excited and encouraged or under glad. And those are our feelings of the day.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Brought to us circle from wedding body. Because I asked him, I said, if you were to. Yeah, yes. Sum us up or like, where are you with our relationship? He goes, oh, my kids and I were just talking about this the other night and I said I was excited. And I'm like, oh. And then he also said encouraged. And so I looked up the gifts and the impairments of both. And you probably know these. But no, we'll sit back. Let me teach the gift of excited, energy, motivation, boldness to try new things.

[Amy]

I want all of those things.

[Kat]

The impairment is impulsiveness, like you were saying, over committing and ignoring red flags.

[Amy]

Yikes.

[Kat]

And then for encourage. The gift is confidence, resilience, willingness to keep going. And the impairment is over. Dependence on external validation, inflated sense of progress without follow through.

[Amy]

Well, I think his encouragement feels like he's not encouraged by like somebody being like, good job, buddy. It's encouraged from the experiences that you guys have had.

[Kat]

Yes. Because I think for a long time he did not think he was going to meet somebody that could potentially come into his life in that capacity, especially with his kids.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

I'll leave names out of it. I don't even know this person's. Name, so there's no way I could say a name. But I know that he did go out with somebody at one point that. I guess I just don't. I prefaced it with that because I, like, don't have permission to tell this story. But why would it matter if I'm not saying names, Right?

[Amy]

Right.

[Kat]

Legally, he sues me.

[Amy]

This is lawyer.

[Kat]

My lawyer boyfriend sues me.

[Amy]

Attorney Alex.

[Kat]

Attorney Alex. Ooh. I haven't met him yet because he's not a practicing lawyer.

[Amy]

Are you gonna role play?

[Kat]

I don't know. Maybe. I've got Hiking Alex, Wedding Wadi, and now lawyer.

[Amy]

You never know who you're gonna get.

[Kat]

Okay, so let me just say it, and we'll face the consequences later. But she said something like she could not. Like, she would want the kids right away to start calling her mom and all this stuff. And I think he was like, yeah, this probably is not gonna work.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

But, like, she wouldn't be able to handle that if they're. And I'm like, you have three children who have lost their mom far too young, and now your main concern is that you want them to call you mom.

[Amy]

So it didn't work.

[Kat]

I don't think they went out again.

[Amy]

That also. I'm. I'm just. If they did, I'm playing devil. I'm playing devil's advocate with that. But that could be her just saying. My insecurity would be that I can.

[Kat]

I can have that compassion card too. I do think mixed with some other things I got about her personality, it was more of a. Which, sure. The wound there. I have compassion for that. There's probably some things to work through. Obviously, I think making a statement like that, like, if this were to progress, because obviously they weren't even serious enough to be at that point, but somehow the. The conversation happened, and she alluded to that, and I think he was like.

[Amy]

Okay, so he wasn't totally blinded by the possible flags, which means maybe he's not blinded by.

[Kat]

Yeah. And so then I was like, note to self. Never say you want the kids to call you mom.

[Amy]

I don't think you need to make that. No, I think you are smart enough.

[Kat]

I know. I'm not gonna say that because, I mean, I don't know. I'm. I'm the mom to two adopted kids that I didn't know how they would ever feel about me being their mom. We adopted them older. I mean, Ben and I adopted them. They were 7 and 11, and they didn't call us mom and dad. Right away, I don't think they really knew what to call us. And then for a little bit, they went through a phase where they would call us by our first names, I think, just to, like, really stick it to us. I don't know. But they were young. They barely knew.

[Amy]

Not cleaning my room.

[Kat]

English. Yeah, but, I mean, some kids just do that with their parents. But we. We were secure in the fact that we knew, like, okay, we don't need to, like, pay much attention to that. But also, it hurt, too, because it's like, we so desperately want to be parents to these two children, and we want them to love us, and we love them, but you can't. That's a whole nother podcast.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

So there we go.

[Amy]

We got through the two feelings. Okay.

[Kat]

We did it.

[Amy]

We did it.

[Kat]

We did it.

[Amy]

So now we're through all of the eight feelings. So you never know what you're going to get on the next episode.

[Kat]

We're done.

[Amy]

Yeah. We did them all.

[Kat]

We did them all. We did did them all.

[Amy]

We did them all.

[Kat]

Okay. Yeah. Lonely, Hurt. Sad, Angry. Shame. Guilt, Fear.

[Amy]

Glad that's eight. Yeah. So, well, that was fun.

[Kat]

What are we going to do? Podcast is over. Thanks for liking and subscribing to Feeling Things. We're going to do another rebrand. Just kidding. Feeling things for life.

[Amy]

I don't think we're gonna run out.

[Kat]

That was an awkward laugh. Like, you're like, yeah, speak for yourself.

[Amy]

Oh, well, I think at first I thought you were saying, like, I'm feeling things for life. Like, no.

[Kat]

Feeling things. Podcast. Yeah, like, and subscribe. We are on YouTube. We are on Instagram. We are on TikTok.

[Amy]

We're on everything.

[Kat]

We're on Facebook.

[Amy]

We're on Facebook. Oh, yeah. So that's an update. So if you listening and you are not on Instagram, we now are on Facebook. So you can see all the stuff that we're posting on Instagram eventually on Facebook. And then you can sign up for the newsletter through there, too.

[Kat]

Healing Things Podcast. This should be the handle for everything. You can email us hey there, feeling things podcast.com and you can call and leave us a voicemail. Do you want to give the number 877-207-2077.

[Amy]

Good.

[Kat]

One more time. 877-207-2077.

[Amy]

We'll put it in the we'll put.

[Kat]

It in the show notes, but we are getting some really great emails, so thank y'all for that. And if anybody does not mind their voice being a part of It. I just really.

[Amy]

Amy really wants a voicemail. Something like the idea.

[Kat]

I. No. You know what I really want, But I'm savoring where we are. But I can't wait till. I want calls. Live calls.

[Amy]

Oh, not even a voicemail. Okay, we'll do one step at a time.

[Kat]

Let's practice. It'd be like. I'll answer you be somebody else.

[Amy]

Oh, okay.

[Kat]

Okay. Oh, guys, we have a call. We have a live call recording.

[Amy]

And nobody calls. We're just sitting here.

[Kat]

Somebody will call.

[Amy]

Oh.

[Kat]

Hello, Feeling Things.

[Amy]

Hey, it's me.

[Kat]

Wait, I don't know. Okay, you have to say your name and where you're calling from. Okay, hold on. Bring.

[Amy]

Oh, I'm already on the phone.

[Kat]

Oh, Feeling Things podcast. Thanks for calling.

[Amy]

Hey, it's Sandra from Connecticut.

[Kat]

Oh, hey, Sandra from Connecticut.

[Amy]

I'm calling with a question for Amy.

[Kat]

Perfect. This is Amy.

[Amy]

Do I just say it?

[Kat]

Oh, yeah, go. We're live.

[Amy]

Okay. Yeah. Well, you know, I've been struggling with picking a hobby, and, you know, I've been trying all these different things, and I don't like any of them. And I just wanted to know if you had any ideas of hobbies I could try. I tried pottery, like Kat was doing. I've tried horseback riding. I've tried sewing. I've tried cooking classes, and I just didn't know if there's any hobbies that might be out there that I just am not thinking of.

[Kat]

I guess my first question for you, Sandra.

[Amy]

Sandra from Connecticut.

[Kat]

Sandra from Connecticut. What are you running from? Have you asked yourself that? Because it sounds like you're chasing hobbies to avoid something.

[Amy]

You know, I never thought about that, but I was calling Amy because I wanted a hobby. I didn't want any of this therapy stuff.

[Kat]

Well, what's happening to you? Lucky for you, cats and therapist, she'll be on with you in a minute free of charge. And we'll work through that. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Amy]

So I don't get the recommendation.

[Kat]

Well, I don't know what. So she.

[Amy]

You show up with a question, you don't even know what you really need.

[Kat]

Yeah, but I didn't know how to really.

[Amy]

That's really good.

[Kat]

I didn't know how to really role play all of that, but what I heard from Sandra is that she's tried all the hobbies out there. So I was thinking there's something lacking in her life or there she's running away from something.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

And so then we can live. Unpack it with Sandra. But you could also do Your disclaimer that's like, hey, this isn't therapy. I'm Kat. I'm a therapist with all these letters behind my name. Very licensed, all the licenses.

[Amy]

I just have one, but it has lots of letters. Yeah.

[Kat]

Say the letters.

[Amy]

Lpc.

[Kat]

Lpc.

[Amy]

Mhsp.

[Kat]

Mhsp.

[Amy]

Yeah. Right.

[Kat]

Basically C suite.

[Amy]

And Kat is not giving therapy.

[Kat]

Yeah, I'm Kat. I'm a therapist. And while this is a therapy podcast, this doesn't replace therapy. This isn't therapy. And we're not giving you real legit life advice. So don't, like, go change your life based off what we say, but kind of something like that. Don't you. What's your.

[Amy]

Take it with a grain of salt. Well, this is just to add an addition to the work that you're already doing, and it's really to help get ideas from. But this isn't actual therapeutic advice.

[Kat]

You hear that, Sandra? Yeah.

[Amy]

Don't sue us is what we're trying to say.

[Kat]

Right. And if you do sue us, if you do sue us.

[Amy]

If you do sue us, Attorney Alex will come and shut that down.

[Kat]

Don't worry. We have legal representation.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Kat]

Okay.

[Amy]

Well, we hope you have the day.

[Kat]

You need to have.

[Amy]

I thought we're going to do it together.

[Kat]

Okay. Sorry. I'm nervous. This episode.

[Amy]

Yeah. Okay. Do you want me to say it?

[Kat]

And it's over, but did you have.

[Amy]

The episode you need to have?

[Kat]

I did, but sometimes I'm like, oh, I feel like I could have explained certain things better.

[Amy]

But I think we do that with everything. The good news is we have unlimited episodes. So if you ever think of something that you're like, oh, I want to readdress. This floor is yours.

[Kat]

No, Let me tell you, I will not be able to be able to listen to this one back if I. I've been trying to listen back to some. To, like, game tape. You know, like athletes do game tape.

[Amy]

Watch tape. Game tape.

[Kat]

Yeah, Game tape. You. To try to be better.

[Amy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kat]

And I feel like if I listen to this one back, I will cringe.

[Amy]

I'll listen to it for you and then take notes because. Yeah.

[Kat]

Oh. Cause you edit.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Oh. Someone said, whoever is editing your videos deserves a raise.

[Amy]

Yeah, it's what she said.

[Kat]

And guess who's editing the videos.

[Amy]

Me.

[Kat]

Sandra from Connecticut.

[Amy]

So, Sandra, you're getting a race, AKA cat.

[Kat]

And. Yeah, they are good. I'm loving them. So, yeah. Y'all follow. You don't want to miss out on this content. Oh, we're speaking of content. Cat and I are going to be bringing more content to all those social media platforms. We just said like not just our clips from the episodes but we have a cooking show and we went shopping and made a little shopping video. So you never know.

[Amy]

Like and subscribe.

[Kat]

You never know. You don't want to miss out.

[Amy]

Okay, so have the day.

[Kat]

The day you need to have to have. Bye for today.

[Amy]

Bye.

[Kat]

Peace.

[Amy]

When you haven't found love, it can.

[Kat]

Feel like everyone else has. It's in every movie, every song and all the PDA looking for love sucks. Thankfully, California Psychics can give you the guidance you need to find the one.

[Amy]

We guarantee if your reading isn't life.

[Kat]

Changing, it's free and new customers receive.

[Amy]

20 minutes for just $20.

[Kat]

Visit californiapsychics.com and experience the joy of certainty.

[D]

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[C]

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