BOBBYCAST: Chris Tomlin Returns! On Releasing a Song That’s 1,800 Years Old + Bobby Gets His Thoughts on Judas + How He Reacts When People Curse Around Him + Writing His Favorite Lyric Ever

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Bobby Bones Show – Episode 507 featuring Chris Tomlin

Release Date: April 21, 2025

In Episode 507 of The Bobby Bones Show, host Bobby Bones welcomes renowned Christian artist Chris Tomlin back to the studio for an engaging and insightful conversation. The episode delves into Chris's latest groundbreaking projects, his perspectives on biblical figures, personal growth through marriage, and his reactions to modern-day challenges such as cursing. Below is a detailed summary capturing all key discussions, notable quotes, and the essence of their dialogue.

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1. Welcome and Episode Introduction

Bobby Bones opens the episode by expressing his genuine enthusiasm for having Chris Tomlin back on the show. He highlights their past interactions and sets the stage for a deep dive into Chris's current endeavors.

[01:52] Bobby Bones: "Chris Tomlin returns. One of my favorite people in Nashville. He's just the best."

2. Releasing an 1,800-Year-Old Song: "The First Hymn"

One of the standout topics is Chris's involvement in releasing "The First Hymn," a song dated back to the third century with unique musical notation. Chris explains how he was approached to bring this ancient hymn back to life, emphasizing its historical and spiritual significance.

[32:02] Chris Tomlin: "We did a documentary because there's so many things about this hymn that are special. So we did, and it releases in a week from now, and it's called 'The First Hymn'."

Chris shares the emotional weight of adapting a hymn that survived persecution and skepticism, highlighting its profound message even 1,800 years later.

[36:57] Chris Tomlin: "It's for those who were going to betray and wrong Jesus, and yet it was for them and for the world, for all of us."

3. Perspectives on Biblical Figures: Judas and David

The conversation moves to a thoughtful analysis of biblical characters, particularly Judas Iscariot and King David. Bobby Bones introduces his theory on Judas, suggesting a reassessment of his role in the crucifixion narrative.

[13:30] Bobby Bones: "I feel like we should give Judas a second look and maybe understand that Christ understood what needed to happen."

Chris Tomlin concurs, elaborating on how Judas was integral to God's plan, and emphasizes the complexity of these characters.

[19:14] Chris Tomlin: "Judas was part of the plan, and if we throw Judas away, we might as well throw everybody else away."

They discuss King David's character, exploring his triumphs and flaws, and how his legacy as "a man after God's own heart" resonates today.

[07:10] Chris Tomlin: "David was such a fighter in both the spiritual and physical worlds."

4. Personal Growth and Marriage

Bobby shifts the discussion to personal matters, sharing his experiences in marriage and how honesty has been pivotal in his relationship with his wife. He highlights the challenges and growth that come from embracing vulnerability and constructive criticism.

[52:53] Bobby Bones: "The key has been not to be so defensive."

Chris echoes the importance of forgiveness and humility in personal relationships, reflecting on his 14-year marriage with gratitude.

[52:16] Chris Tomlin: "The key is, 'I'm sorry. Will you forgive me?'"

5. Upcoming Projects: Worship Under the Stars and Good Friday Shows

Chris Tomlin discusses his upcoming series Worship Under the Stars, set in iconic locations like New York’s Central Park and Red Rocks. He emphasizes the blend of natural beauty and spiritual connection in these concerts.

[58:24] Bobby Bones: "Worship under the Stars, you're doing. A couple of days in July and then in October. Red Rocks, that's cool."

Chris shares his excitement about creating authentic worship experiences that resonate deeply with attendees.

[58:29] Chris Tomlin: "It's all about helping people connect with God in these beautiful settings."

6. Reactions to Cursing and Maintaining Authenticity

A significant portion of the episode covers Chris Tomlin's stance on cursing and maintaining authenticity both personally and professionally. Bobby Bones shares his own challenge of abstaining from curse words and how it parallels Chris's experiences.

[60:35] Bobby Bones: "When people curse around you, they'll go like, 'Oh, I'm sorry,' because they know I don't curse."

Chris expresses his frustration with others apologizing for cursing, advocating for normalizing casual language without judgment.

[60:32] Chris Tomlin: "It bothers the heck out of me when people say that."

7. Engaging Anecdotes: Pickleball vs. Tennis

In a light-hearted segment, Bobby and Chris delve into the debate between pickleball and tennis, sharing humorous anecdotes and personal preferences. Bobby humorously recounts interactions with professional tennis player Andy Roddick, highlighting the fun and competitive nature of pickleball.

[62:43] Bobby Bones: "I own part of a major league pickleball team. It's a great game."

Chris adds his perspective, appreciating the strategy and skill involved despite his lighthearted criticism of televised pickleball.

[64:36] Chris Tomlin: "I like it. It's a great game."

8. Concluding Thoughts and Final Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Bobby and Chris reflect on the importance of authenticity in music and life. They emphasize staying true to oneself and embracing both strengths and vulnerabilities.

[51:06] Chris Tomlin: "When the storms come, they separate the players from the pretenders."

Bobby concludes by encouraging listeners to watch Chris’s documentaries and stream his new projects, expressing his appreciation for the deep and meaningful conversation.

[68:26] Bobby Bones: "You guys go see Chris. It's an excellent show."

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Notable Quotes

• Chris Tomlin on Authenticity:
  "[52:07] Chris Tomlin: The key is, 'I'm sorry. Will you forgive me?' That is the key."

• Bobby Bones on Re-evaluating Judas:
  "[13:30] Bobby Bones: I feel like we should give Judas a second look and maybe understand that Christ understood what needed to happen."

• Chris Tomlin on Personal Growth:
  "[57:15] Chris Tomlin: Marriage is a refining thing. And I'm so grateful for her and for my girls and three daughters."

---

Conclusion

Episode 507 of The Bobby Bones Show offers listeners an in-depth look into Chris Tomlin's latest musical ventures, his thoughtful analysis of biblical narratives, and his personal journey through marriage and authenticity. The conversation is rich with meaningful insights, heartfelt anecdotes, and engaging discussions that resonate with both fans of Christian music and those interested in personal and spiritual growth.

For those interested in exploring Chris Tomlin's ancient hymn project and upcoming worship series, be sure to watch the documentary "The First Hymn" and attend the Worship Under the Stars concerts. This episode is a testament to the enduring power of music and faith in connecting and inspiring individuals across generations.

Transcript

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[Chris Tomlin]

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[Chris Tomlin]

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[Bobby Bones]

Okay. Yep.

[Chris Tomlin]

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[Bobby Bones]

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[Chris Tomlin]

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[Bobby Bones]

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[Chris Tomlin]

You know, sometimes we think heaven looks like America or something like that maybe. Yeah, it's like. It looks nothing like that. This was a Tuesday and the world is. Every kind of person is lined up just to stand there and just to. Just to kiss the stone where Jesus was laid.

[Bobby Bones]

Episode 507. Chris Tomlin returns. One of my favorite people in Nashville. He's just the best of a genuine affinity for Chris and hopefully you can tell during this interview. Hris Tomlin is his Instagram if you want to follow him. And we do talk about everything, including the music he's putting out or now has put out and even the oldest song ever written. Yeah, I think that's the wildest part. Yeah, it's like 1800 years old. Yeah. Yeah. Did you feel like my Bob Dylan reference minimized it because he's talking about it? You'll hear it. A song that was written basically on a tablet. Yeah, but I think it's a good comparison. In the Christian War. And I'm like, well, Bob Dylan, Wagon Wheel. He's like, no, this song is 1800 years old. Yeah. So, yeah, I love Chris and his Good Friday Nashville shows are the best we went last year. He's got Worship under the Stars, which we talk about. Here he is. Which, by the way, Chris Tomlin is tied with Taylor Swift as the number two ranking of artists headlining Bridgestone. I think McGraw has the number one spot. But also Chris Tomlin's like one of the biggest touring artists in the world. Isn't that crazy? It is wild because a lot of artists big in America, not that big everywhere else. Chris Tomlin big in America. Big, big other places, too. Because the music, just Christian music is for Christians everywhere. International man. Chris Tomlin here. He returned. I'm not going to read the. Should I read the parentheses? No, I shouldn't read the parentheses.

[Chris Tomlin]

Okay. No.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay. Chris Tomlin returns. Episode 507 Chris, good to see you again.

[Chris Tomlin]

Hey, man, great to see you.

[Bobby Bones]

Last time I saw you, I was, you know, you're one of the. The few people that I wouldn't feel awkward this happening.

[Chris Tomlin]

And I didn't.

[Bobby Bones]

I want to say this to begin with. I didn't feel awkward, but my wife and I were sitting and I always feel we're approaching a sitting table that's eating. And luckily we know you and you came up and we were sitting at our urban market. Yeah. And I was like, you know what? One of the. Maybe three people that wouldn't be awkward as we're sitting and they came and dominate us because you're standing, you're dominating, you're over the top. You're like, hey, how's it going?

[Chris Tomlin]

And we're looking up at you and I'm so dominating.

[Bobby Bones]

Yes, yes.

[Chris Tomlin]

We're like, oh, my goodness, I fit now.

[Bobby Bones]

Chris is so dominating. Um, yeah, that's the last. We saw you there and we went to your Easter show last year.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah. Thank you for coming.

[Bobby Bones]

That's. I think that's our two run ins in the past few months. Yes. But social media is so weird though, because I feel like even though I'm not, I kind of feel like I'm still keeping up, you know, I guess I'm like, yeah, I know what Chris is up to.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes, of course.

[Bobby Bones]

My. I was thinking about yesterday because my in laws were talking about Easter and they are either going to come here to do the show or we're gonna go there to Oklahoma and do something there. But the selling point was, I know Chris Hamlin. I'M just letting you know the selling point was, let's go. The show's all. And I know Chris, so.

[Chris Tomlin]

Chris. And we'll. We'll hang.

[Bobby Bones]

So if we win, that's why. But if we lose, that's why. It wasn't quite strong enough.

[Chris Tomlin]

I like it, bro. I can't wait to see which way goes.

[Bobby Bones]

How you been?

[Chris Tomlin]

I'm doing good, man.

[Bobby Bones]

Dude, great. I was looking through, and I rarely will just address the notes that I have just right off the bat, but I just need help a little bit.

[Chris Tomlin]

Okay.

[Bobby Bones]

Because.

[Chris Tomlin]

Sorry.

[Bobby Bones]

No, you're just. You're. You're. You're killing it. And it's so much. I just need. I'm gonna ask questions in ways that I don't understand about things because you're so involved in so many really cool projects that I just need to know the capacities. You're involved.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay, so first, House of David.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes. Okay.

[Bobby Bones]

So we were just talking about that before you come in.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay. So one of your songs. I know. Is in the soundtrack.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Which is after your heart.

[Chris Tomlin]

After your heart.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah. That's all I'm involved.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay. Well, not all that is how you're involved.

[Chris Tomlin]

That's how I'm involved.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes. Approached that in the last fall and said, hey, they're coming out with this. And I was so excited. Anything about David. I mean, I could go on and on, but I was like, are you kidding me? This is going to be. I hope they do this well, because it's going to be. What an insane. What an incredible story. So, yeah, man. That was how I was involved. And I was, as I normally am, in the middle of the night. That's when the ideas came. And I just. I had this idea, and I think it's one of my favorite lyrics I've ever written. And it was the first line of the song. And I went. And I got up in the middle of the night and just sang it into my phone. And it just. And it said this. It says, I got a sling in one hand. I got a harp in one hand and a sling in the other. For the battles I fight, I fight with these. And I thought, that's David. And so I wrote this song called after your heart. The Bible says David was a man after God's own heart. And so I wrote this little idea of all his ups and downs, his triumphs and his failures. And so that was my favorite. It's one of my favorite things I've gotten to write.

[Bobby Bones]

Did they approach you about doing A song for it first. And then that came as you had it on your mind or was it the.

[Chris Tomlin]

Oh, yeah, it was. We're making this house of David. Do you have a song about David? And I was like, I don't, but I've never written a song about him. But I'd like the challenge.

[Bobby Bones]

I guess to me it would go in my mind, I would go, well, which version? Like, which part of the David story?

[Chris Tomlin]

Right?

[Bobby Bones]

As like the King the Powerful or David the. As you talk about the sling, like there's different. It's like Michael Jordan. Do you talk about his early years with the bulls? Do you do. When he won three and three, you. The wizards. Yes. So that to me, that would be what I would think about how if I were going to do a song about David.

[Chris Tomlin]

It's a big story.

[Bobby Bones]

Did they give you a parted like, no, we want.

[Chris Tomlin]

They gave zero. Because at that point they didn't have a lot of guides. They're like, oh, we don't have a lot of guides. Just kind of write something. And you know, they said Psalm 40 is taken. Psalm 23 is taken. And which is. I figured. But like write something from just anything you think about. So that idea of David being, you know, the worship leader of the Bible, right. He wrote the songs. He wrote the songs of the time of Praise to God. Right. The Psalms. Always kid that one day I'm going to meet David in heaven and he's going to have words with me because I get a lot of credit for things he wrote. Because I take all this, my songs from the Psalms. And so when that line came you. That opening line, I've got a sling and I've got a harp in one hand and a sling in the other. For the battles I fight, I fight with these. I thought that's David. He was such a. He was a. Had a heart for God and he was a warrior. And that. That idea, that harp and that sling, those two things. Two. Two completely different weapons, you know, but both. One is kind of the spiritual world, you know, and one is the physical world. And he was a. He was a fighter in both.

[Bobby Bones]

So before I move to the next thing. Sorry, no, no. Hearing you talk about things make. I have like 100 questions based on what you just said. But when I am doing comps. Bible comps to myself and people that I either want to emulate or, Or. Or things I want to avoid, I think about Saul. How prideful. How prideful Saul was and which led. Which, you know, the diminishing king.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

And pride is really what cost him.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

And that's. That's a comp that I make that I try not to be.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And that. Because, again, David ends up following Saul.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

You know the story. I don't have to tell you this story.

[Chris Tomlin]

No. But like, it's amazing because Saul would say, play the harp. Right. Because it eased him.

[Bobby Bones]

And I try to. I try to not be Saul. I just read the Alchemist. You ever read that?

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes, I have. I can't remember it. I read it so long ago.

[Bobby Bones]

I loved it. I loved it. And I. It was one of those books that everybody's always read and. Or read a long time ago, and I just never have. And I'm in a place now in my life where I kind of don't know. In many ways, I am exactly where I want to be, but I've never been more lost at the same time. Yeah, it's like this odd juxtaposition. Like, I know exactly who I am, but I also have no clue. More than ever. And I was flipping through books because I like to read. I just finished a fiction book and I'm usually not even a fiction reader. And I flipped to like seven or eight, and for no reason, the Alchemist came up and clicked it and read it. And I read it like a day and a half. And not that I'm a pretty fast reader, but I was just so in. And it's about finding your personal legend.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Bobby Bones]

And not really attached to any religion.

[Chris Tomlin]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

Because there are references to Christ and Allah and all, but they make sure to go, this is not specifically related to religion.

[Chris Tomlin]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

And in that, you know, there's a pride theme. And I thought about just this story specifically. And you talking about that just kind of re triggered that as I try to not be Saul. Like, that's what I try, you know, I try to not. And not be Saul. David's an odd, remarkable, amazing story. It's all of those.

[Chris Tomlin]

It's all of it. It's the triumph and the failure. He failed as big as you can fail. And I mean, I don't think too many people have done worse than he's done. And yet somehow he had this heart after God too. And so it's very relatable, I think, to anybody. I think that's why I'm so excited they were doing something like this. Like, that is so relatable to anyone. A lot of people, maybe people like, well, I'm never going to be the king of anything, but that's just the Power of his story. And just like you don't. You didn't have it all together. You know, I think we look at these. These especially a Bible characters, like there's these mythical creatures, like they're these saints. And wow, man. These just had so many flaws and yet did incredible things as well.

[Bobby Bones]

I'm gonna run into something by it. We just talked about on a podcast last week, and I was talking about misunderstood finger quote villains.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And I bring up Judas.

[Chris Tomlin]

Oh, man. Okay. We can get going on this.

[Bobby Bones]

And so. And I was talking to one of my friends who reads the Bible every day.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And to most people, just the name Judas, because of how it's referenced for the most part, obviously, is one who betrays. Who betray Christ. And how I had suggested on a microphone to my friend on second look, if Jesus is all knowing which he is, that had to be put into place for all of it to happen. The crucifixion. So Judas would not have been there to begin with if it weren't for Jesus. Judas betrayed Jesus, just as was predicted. Judas is seen as the betrayal, the villain. Yeah, very much so. But my presentation, I wouldn't even say argument, because we were just looking at characters, fictional or nonfiction, that we have assigned a tag to. We did Benedict Arnold, and it was. But we spent a lot of time on Judas. And I really feel like old Judas kind of gets the raw end sometimes because I feel like he was selected to do just that. And without him doing just that, the crucifixion, all of it, none of it would have happened.

[Chris Tomlin]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

And so in conclusion of my mini TED Talk, I said, I feel like we should give Judas a second look and maybe understand that Christ understood what needed to happen for what needed to happen to happen. What are your thoughts on that theory?

[Chris Tomlin]

Let's go. Let's just go deep in this was.

[Bobby Bones]

Literally on the last podcast we did.

[Chris Tomlin]

Okay. So I just got to be a part of this movie called the Last Supper. And the reason I was interested in being a part of the movie and helping get the word out about this movie is because it took a different look. The Last Supper, obviously, Jesus central character, but really it's Peter and Judas. It's through the lens of Peter and Judas, both of whom, you know, don't have a great part in this story of the Last Supper. Well, with Judas, what I was so moved by is that I was. Is that moment in at the scene. Okay, let me just set the scene. They're in Jesus, like, okay, let's have this passover meal. This. It's Passover time, and let's have this meal and get to get it all together. And. And just like they would normally do year after year after year. But this time it was different. And he began to wash their feet. And that's the famous. Where he starts washing Peter's feet. He's like, what are you doing? Peter's like, what are you doing? He's like, I'm so. You're. I don't even. I'm not even worthy to tie your sandals. What are you doing? And Jesus, like, this is. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm showing you. I'm serving you. And this is what I want you to do to others. And he washes Judas. And he's. And you're like. And then there's. And I was really struck by the movie. I was like. I was like, I've been. I've been a follower of Jesus. I've been a Christian most of my life, since I was a kid. And I've studied and I've read the Bible. I've heard all the stories. And yet I saw it brand new again because I saw this moment where Jesus changes the whole thing. And he takes the bread as he normally would pass around, but this time he breaks it. And he's like, this is my body, actually. I'm about to be broken for you. And it. And you see the guys, you see these disciples, you see these brothers, these friends. They're just friends, right? We know them as the Saint Thomas and Saint Matthew and Saint. These were just. These were normal guys. And they're trying to figure it out. And which is crazy, is most of them, I learned through this. Most of them were teenagers or early 20s. So think about that. They're 18, 19 years old. They're about to change the entire world. And Jesus, like, he changes the whole thing. He's like, I'm breaking this. He starts handing the bread because this is actually my body. And they're just. And they're looking at each other like, whoa, this is different. This is not how Ms. Normally goes. And then he takes the cup and he's like, and this is my blood. This is what's about to happen. He goes, and when you. I want you to remember me when you do this. And yet he.

[Bobby Bones]

And he.

[Chris Tomlin]

But he gives the bread and he gives it, and Judas and Peter are there. And I'm thinking, I just saw it brand new because I'm thinking, wow, this is the picture. The forgiveness of God for me, for you. For everybody who's listening to this, how powerful. That even though Jesus knew what was coming, he knew that he was about to go to the cross, they did not understand. They were still trying to figure it out. Like, what's he talking about? He's like, it's all coming down to it's all about to happen. I'm about to be killed for the sins of the world. And yet he knew that one of them. He's looking at one of them. And you're going to deny me. You're about to. I know you're going to go and say, even though you say you're going to be with me till the end, you're about to say, you don't even know who I am. When a little girl asks you, aren't you with him? You're going to say, no, I don't even know who that is. And then, Judas, you're about to go for some money, turn me in. And that kind of what you're kind of getting at. That, to me, shows the side of, of the gospel, of the good news, of this message. It puts it in a. In a. In a powerful way of like, man, Jesus knew this, like you said, and yet he's. He's like, I'm doing this for you. Even though I know what you're about to do, this is still for you. And that's man, that. And then when I saw. I saw myself. I just saw myself in that. In those guys. How much in me is. Is man sometimes. I'm Peter and I'm the bodyguard Jesus. I will. No one's going to take you. I will go with you to the end. And then I found myself, through my actions, through my words, denying him. I found myself betraying. I found myself in the same place. And so I think that's why that that picture is there, is to help people, to help me and to help us remember that this was. This. This was for. This is for those who were going to betray into and to wrong Jesus. And yet it was for them and for the world, for all of us. Because we're all in that basket. None of us. It may look a little bit different, but we're all in that basket with those guys. And so that's been such a beautiful picture and reminder to me this Easter season because of being a part of that movie and helping get that made and showing that picture to people again of just how that moment.

[Bobby Bones]

So would you support my theory of since Jesus is all knowing and he knew that he was going to do it, and that needed to happen. That he. I don't think he should just be universally be the bad guy.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bobby Bones]

You don't have to agree, by the way. You can. You can totally. No, no, you're a moron. Because I hear that all day. All day, every day. That's all I hear all day.

[Chris Tomlin]

No, I think. I mean, there's not. No, there's not a lot of people been named Judas since then and.

[Bobby Bones]

Exactly. I know a couple names that have died. Judas, Adolf. There have been a few of these we just don't do anymore. Yes.

[Chris Tomlin]

Judas bones. No, none of that Judas bones is not happening. But yeah, there is. There's a reason for that. But yes. I mean, it was. That was part of the plan. And Judas was. Yeah. Jesus part of the plan. And so I will say this, and this is not to be over spiritual, but if we throw Judas away, we might as well throw everybody else away.

[Bobby Bones]

Exactly my point. That's over spiritual. That's just talking about the topic we're talking about.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah, it's. You know, because who. Any of us who has it together. Who wouldn't.

[Bobby Bones]

Well, I see a bit again, I say, I try not to be Saul, but I want to be more David. But there's definitely Saul in me. There's definitely David in me. There's definitely Judas.

[Chris Tomlin]

It's in us.

[Bobby Bones]

We're all that.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

For me, I'm just trying to push down the ones that. The characteristics I don't like and really trying to accentuate the ones that I do. Yes, you did no greater to love for the Last Supper.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

And that you're in credits is a different song.

[Chris Tomlin]

The end. No, it's no great love is an end credits of that is one.

[Bobby Bones]

That's one of theirs.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

How much of it do they run? The whole song. And are you mad people walk out during your song?

[Chris Tomlin]

Exactly. I'm like, this is the only. I just want to say, hey, guys, wait. Because as soon as it starts rolling, I know everybody's getting up like, wait, wait, wait. Let's please listen to the song.

[Bobby Bones]

Did they.

[Chris Tomlin]

They ran the whole song?

[Bobby Bones]

They run the whole song?

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And did they tell you write a song for it or did you have it?

[Chris Tomlin]

That's how I got involved with the movie. Obviously it started with music. They didn't come to me, hey, we know you make great mov. Because that's never happened. And it first started with music. And these guys, the producers and people putting this movie together said, do you have any music for this? Any song for this. That could work. And I said, well, let me see the. Can I see this screening of it? It showed me kind of this. The idea, what they had so far. And I was like, I really like this. Like, would you like to be involved in a greater way? And it's like. I was like, yeah. And I was like, I think I have a song. And so the crazy thing is, I had just gone out to Sun Valley, Idaho. Tyler Hubbard had asked me and a couple songwriters, he wanted to put together a little songwriting camp together out there at Ernest Hemingway's house.

[Bobby Bones]

Matt Jenkins a part of that, right?

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. One of our buddies here. Yeah.

[Chris Tomlin]

Matt and Corey Crowder and Matt Jenkins at Tyler Hubbard. It's like, hey, would you like to come out? And we're gonna ride at Ernest Hemingway's place. I was like, oh, my gosh, that'd be so cool. And it's this. Obviously it's a historical landmark and you can use the basement. And a lot of poets come and write poetry there, stuff like that. So we were writing and I thought, oh, this is my chance to write some country music. And that'd be fun. I'll never get in that lane, hardly ever. And as soon as I get there, they're like, hey, we wanna write a song with you. We wanna write, like, in your world. And I'm like, okay. I was like, okay. And they're like. And Matt Jenkins said, you know, I just been thinking about this line. I've been thinking about this verse, no greater love. In John 15. He just said. He said, no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. This is in January, okay? He's like, I'm thinking. I just keep thinking about that verse. There's no greater love than a man lay down his life for his friends. And if as. Have you read. Have you ever song like that? I was like, I don't. He said, what about that? I said, let's do it. And so he wrote this song, no greater love, and had this. Made this demo. And it's really beautiful. I think it's a powerful, powerful lyric. And the idea of trading the crown of Jesus, trading the kind of the crown of glory for crown of thorns and just this sacrifice, right? And a couple weeks later, I get approached with this movie. Do you guys have. You have a song that could work with this? And I was like, wow. I think this. I played him this song. I was like, I got this demo. I haven't played it for anybody. I just wrote this song with some friends. Let Me play this demo and they're like, this is the song. This is perfect for this. So it was one of those moments where I feel like things were lined up and I was like, let's do it. So I got involved in not just a song for the movie, but just, just helping shape a little bit more.

[Bobby Bones]

That's pretty cool.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

It's like your worlds are. You're expanding.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes. Oh, so, so, so fun.

[Bobby Bones]

But the expansion is cool because it's. You're getting involved in things by doing what you already do.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Right.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

But it's.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

Other air. Other things. You. Yeah. It's just really cool to see the growth of, like, what you do and how it's incorporated into other projects.

[Chris Tomlin]

And it was natural for me. It's, you know, it's not like a, a movie or a subject I don't know anything about, so it was really good. Like, this worked for me because I was like, yeah, I, I, I do. I would love to share more about this and help people see.

[Bobby Bones]

The Good Friday show was so good last year. First time I'd been. It was, it was awesome.

[Chris Tomlin]

Thank you, man.

[Bobby Bones]

And, but, you know, frankly speaking, I was like, I want to go. I think it's going to be good. I like Chris, so I hope it's good because if not, it's gonna be kind of awkward if I'm like, I'm not gonna tell you. It's not. I wouldn't be like, man, lackluster show, huh? But it's always weird to watch your. Because I don't know you in that way. Meaning I know what you do. I know your music. But I've never been to a concert. I don't go to anybody's concerts anymore because either I'm on the road or I'm asleep. That's it. And so we go. We were very excited about it, and it was awesome.

[Chris Tomlin]

Thank you.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Chris Tomlin]

And thank you.

[Bobby Bones]

You've done what I found. If I'm remembering this correct, I think you said that night you were like, we're doing it again next year. And then I don't. Do you put tickets on sale right then. Right then this thing's sold out. Packed to the gills. Is it sold out again this year?

[Chris Tomlin]

Sold out.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay. I need to bring my in laws, though. Do you have, do you have a couple extra in case we decide to come?

[Chris Tomlin]

I know some people, so. Okay, we can get you, we can get you in. Here's the fun thing, man, is that we sold. This is the earliest it's ever sold out this year and it's our ninth year. And what I love about it is I didn't market. There was no marking of anything. It just says Good Friday Nashville. There's no names on the poster. No one even knows who's going to play because I have it's surprises. But in the past I have said, hey, it's me and here's a few people. And then I have some surprises. This year. I didn't even put anybody on there. And so that is really special to me that people just want to come. They know it's going to be a special night and they just want to be there and it's filled up and it's going to be. I can tell you it's going to be incredible. It's all. It's going to be the night of nights. If you're, if you can, it's going to be streamed. If you can't, if you can, if you're can't get to Nashville or not there. But it's, it's really beautiful night. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor introducing Instagram Teen accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on.

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[Chris Tomlin]

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[Chris Tomlin]

And we're back on the bobbycast.

[Bobby Bones]

I want to ask you a question about your job.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

We both love our jobs. Our jobs are a massive part of who we are. Hopefully they're not all of who we are.

[Chris Tomlin]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

But being so immersed in your work, how do you keep it fresh? Especially something that is thousands of years old. How are you able to constantly keep it fresh?

[Chris Tomlin]

Like, in the music side of things? Sure.

[Bobby Bones]

Anything creative.

[Chris Tomlin]

Anything.

[Bobby Bones]

Because I.

[Chris Tomlin]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

You can go hymns. I mean, we can walk through even.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

You know, the 80s and 90s. And when I started to. From Carmen, I'd go to Carmen shows. Or you do Jars of Clay, newsboys, all that. Like, there. There has been.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Christian music in all ways.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Sonically. But the message is the same. So how do you make it different when it's kind. The message should remain somewhat the same.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah. That's a great question. I mean, I think it's just been something that I didn't, first of all. And I mean, this. I never chose this. I feel like it chose me. This is something that I feel called to since I was a kid. And there's a. It's like a burning passion in me. Um. I never thought it would be music. I thought it would be something to help people connect with. God, I didn't know it'd be music, but so that this. This. This whatever this pull inside of me is, is something that I didn't. I don't have to keep trying to keep going. It's just. It's always there, like angles on songs.

[Bobby Bones]

Because even in country music, which is always evolving and changing, and you have so much more to work with, it feels like. Than. Than the message.

[Chris Tomlin]

Mm.

[Bobby Bones]

Even these guys who are my friends are like. We keep writing the same song over and over again. We just gotta find a slightly different way.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

You're doing it on something that's been written up for thousands of years.

[Chris Tomlin]

Thousands of years. And I just got. Which we can get into. I just got to be a part of a song that's literally 1800 years old. It'll be the earliest song ever. Ever found in our faith that we're just. We're about to put out. It's. It's a whole. Another. It's a documentary, everything. It's insane. We can get to that. But this is. Yeah, it's always trying to help people. Here's what I try to do. For me, it's helped. I've always said I want to help people see if I can help people see. And then they'll sing. The more you see, the more you sing. And what I mean by that is if for me and my songs, if I can help give people a picture in their heart, in their mind of God's goodness, his grace, his mercy, his forgiveness, his glory, and write that in a way that helps people see, then you can't help but praise. If I can help people see it, then they'll praise God. And for me, it's always been about. I think the beautiful thing is it's always been about the song for me, helping people connect with the song. It's not been about, hey, I've got to build my brand and me. I've never tried to do that. I've just tried to help. I've tried to. Hopefully just. The song is. The song is what is the star. The song is what connects with people. People. And so it's. It's. It's just pushing for the best songs possible. And, you know, just lately with this song, Holy Forever, it's been another moment. Like, I've had these moments along with this. It's almost. Almost 30 years now, man. 30 years of touring and traveling, and I've had these moments, these little, like. These little marking moments of, like, these songs that I can just look and go. That was the kind of the temple in that. In that moment and this. And to be this far along and have God give me a song like Holy Forever that's really connected around the world again. And it's been so special. And I can tell you, when I was writing it, I was thinking, okay, this feels like I always. I never feel this. But when I felt. I sent a text to a friend of mine and said, I feel like this song is going to be really, really special in some way. And I. And it's been. It's been. It's been incredible.

[Bobby Bones]

If I wrote songs like you, I would send every song to a different friend. So I could always say, I texted this song to a friend and knew it was gonna be special. So I wouldn't be lying. I would just text different friends, all one song, and be like, this is brilliant. You have it down. It's on record. I haven't said this song is gonna be very special.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Whenever. Because I. I want to hear the story about the song that.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

But to me, wagon Wheel, which was like A Bob Dylan semi finished demo that existed randomly was never put out. And then Catch from Old Crow finishes writing it. And then Wagon Wheel becomes massive. They do it, then Darius does it. So that's a version of a story that I think of when it's like an old song that isn't totally done, is then finished and then is. I won't say, but relevant.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

Right. Brought back to life.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

So give me your version of this that you're talking about. This song is 1600 years old.

[Chris Tomlin]

1800 years old. So I got approached this year, I mean, this last fall with this guy from. His name is Ben Fielding. He's a songwriting friend. He said, hey, I want to connect you with this friend of mine. He's a brainiac. His name is John Dickinson and he's. He's from Australia. And he said, I've got this song. I've got. I want somebody to bring this song back. He goes, there was this piece of scrap paper that was found in Egypt in this town called Oxyranos in Egypt. And he said, it's in a vault in Oxford now. And it's just a little piece of scrap paper. And it's the earliest known hymn, earliest known song with musical notation. Has musical notation on it. The notation makes no sense to us. I don't even understand what it is. But it's in that time and it's dated to the third century, so the two hundreds. And this is. And it's a piece of a hymn. And it's missing about. They said missing about 10 to 12 words, but it's got like 25, 30 words on it. And they're beautiful and they're powerful. He said, we've translated and it's translated. And here is the old melody. And I can't really. It's. It's really interesting melody, but, like, would you and Ben, this other songwriter friend, would y'all be interested in maybe bringing this to life again and bringing this back and bringing this hymn? And he said, we're making a documentary because there's so many things about this hymn that are special. And so we did. And so it releases in. In a week from now, and it's called the first Hymn. And the lyrics are beautiful.

[Bobby Bones]

I think this week. Mike. Right, because it's airing this. Yeah. So it's out this Friday.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Or is it right now? I think it'll be out now. Hey, it's out now.

[Chris Tomlin]

It's out now.

[Bobby Bones]

It's out now.

[Chris Tomlin]

Okay, it's out now. So the first hymn. And when you Hear this. Here's, here's. Here's some. I wish I could tell the backstory for everybody who listens this, but here's a song. But here's why this is such a big deal is to think about. These words that are being sung are not only. I mean, almost, almost 2,000 years old. This would have been the grandkids of the disciples, right? This had been that generation. And this is what they were singing. This was a time when those who that were spreading this message of Christianity would have been killed. They were trying to wipe Christianity out. This is under incredible persecution. So obviously it's anonymous. Did these guys who wrote this or make it or were singing this, did they even make it? Who knows? But would they ever dream that wherever they were in their little cave singing this song together or their little house together, that 1800 years from now that this would be on a thing called Spotify or Apple music and people be starting to sing this and the church be starting to sing this again? That's powerful to me. There's a couple things. There's the last line of the hymn says into the.

[Bobby Bones]

That you wrote, or there's on there.

[Chris Tomlin]

It's on there. It says, to the only giver of all good gifts. Amen. Amen. And the guy, this historian who said why this was so important is in that day and time, pagan worship mostly to Zeus and other gods would, to worship them, to go into any kind of worship service, quote, unquote, you would start with to the giver of all good gifts. And that's how all of worship would start. To the giver of all gifts, he says. And for this. So for this little ragtag remnant of people to end their song with to the only giver of all good gifts was quite a. It was just such a pushback to society and culture. And it's, it's. It's powerful. And I, I think that it's a, it's just a powerful thing. And I. And just so to be a part of that, like you said, what kind of music, what kind of songs have that kind of history? You know, I was thinking about just, just this long line of. Of. Of of songs and music that, that we just try to keep. Keep carrying on throughout the ages is, Is so special.

[Bobby Bones]

What do the music notes look like?

[Chris Tomlin]

Because obviously they look like they, they. They look a little bit like. They almost look like Chinese characters or something like that.

[Bobby Bones]

So not like the stick with the fat little bowl on it.

[Chris Tomlin]

Not like that. Yeah, not like that. In the melody we have A. You hear a girl singing this. We brought in this Egyptian girl. The hook is the. Is the ancient melody. And it's Amin. Ameen. The word amen. But they would sing it all together. Amin. Amin. And so we have this. This guitar line and she's singing that over. And so again, most people who hear that will not have any context for it. But that is that literally, that melody was 1800 years ago.

[Bobby Bones]

When you finished that did. I don't know. What's that feel like? Because you just kind of redid it.

[Chris Tomlin]

I mean, I was. I. It's a little bit of trembling because I was like, I. I just want to carry. I want to carry this well. I mean, I want to get it right. I want to do the very best I can. And with. With such a gift, such a song that, you know, was meant a lot to. So. To those people and means a lot today. And so, yeah, I was. You just never know. I never know if songs are like, this is going to be. This is it. You know, but especially something like this. He's like, this is the best I can do. And I hope. I hope it does it justice.

[Bobby Bones]

So the first hymn, you can listen to it, but also the. It's on Wonder. The platform. Wonder if you want to watch the documentary. What if. I'm just going to throw this at you. What if they find an older song? And now this is now the second hymn. Have you thought about that? I definitely have, because all of a sudden I have.

[Chris Tomlin]

And so I went back 10 times. It's like, should we really call this the first hymn? Because obviously there's the psalms. The psalms are older than that.

[Bobby Bones]

True.

[Chris Tomlin]

And. But this is the first ever. It is the first song ever found with musical notation. And it's to find. They said the chances of finding something would be, who knows, hundreds of years from now. And so then I won't have to deal with it. Something else.

[Bobby Bones]

But that'd just be my luck, though. They find another one, like a week after we're done.

[Chris Tomlin]

And it's. And it's a week earlier.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. And it's like the real first hymn. And I'm like, oh, man.

[Chris Tomlin]

This was from the 50s.

[Bobby Bones]

Yes.

[Chris Tomlin]

The year 50.

[Bobby Bones]

I feel like there would be an immense pressure on you to love Christmas.

[Chris Tomlin]

To love Christmas.

[Bobby Bones]

Not even for the Jesus element. Just. You just need to, like, embrace Christmas. And if you're not Chris Christmas. I mean, your name is Chris Christmas.

[Chris Tomlin]

Tomlin.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. I feel like there's a pressure that you got to be Mr. Christmas just around the House.

[Chris Tomlin]

No, not. Definitely not around the house, but, like.

[Bobby Bones]

The biggest light display. Like, you gotta be. Do you feel that pressure?

[Chris Tomlin]

Hilarious. I love. I love how this goes. From. Where did we. We went from here to Christmas like that. That quick?

[Bobby Bones]

Well, I just think of when you're talking about things, I'm like, you know, in my mind, I've got eight things going at once. Like, and we've had the discussion where I think everybody acts like. Like, they have to be on their P's and Q's around you because you'll just literally call God and be like, tell on them. Like, I told you that last time. I said people, they probably act in a way towards you where they can't be themselves. And I found myself the victim of that because we were having a party and I told Caitlin, I was like, hey, let's invite Chris. But we were doing, like, casino night. I was like, I wish you invite Chris at the casino. And then she goes, you. Exactly what you. What you said.

[Chris Tomlin]

I loved. Thank you for your wife.

[Bobby Bones]

So, yes. And so I'm okay.

[Chris Tomlin]

So, yeah, Christmas. I love Christmas. I love it anyway, but, yes, I do. I'm not Mr. Christmas, but, yeah, I've. I love it. I love the music. Christmas. I love. I love everything about it.

[Bobby Bones]

Like, you have to be the best present giver of all. The nephew. I would just think that that would be the pressure I would put on myself because that's. You're out constantly singing the word.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And what's more the word than Christmas?

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah. Oh, and I'm on tour every Christmas. I do a Christmas tour every Christmas. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. The gifts would have to be a plus if I were known for Christmas.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

Now I'm known for my vision, so that's a pretty easy one.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Because I can just be like, I'm blind, you know, So I don't really have anything that. That I have to do. But when do you. When do you put up the Christmas tree at your house?

[Chris Tomlin]

The Christmas tree is right after Thanksgiving.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay. So that's normal. Yeah. That's boring. We should change that. You should do, like, when you text all your friends, this one's it. You should do July 5th. And you, like.

[Chris Tomlin]

You're like, it, you know, July 5th. Let's call on me. July 5th. I feel it, guys. Christmas every day. The Bobby cast. We'll be right back. Introducing Instagram teen accounts.

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[Bobby Bones]

And helmet. Done. See you, dad.

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[Chris Tomlin]

This is the bobbycast.

[Bobby Bones]

I feel like there's a really common thread between country music and Christian music. I use the word, I'll use the term, very wide open Christian music. I feel like it's a very common thread. I think country music is very much based in its belief in God and I think that's why so many artists are drawn to you. And I think the project that you did with a lot of the country artists, I would imagine those were all pretty quick yeses.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah, it was really fun, man. It was. Yeah. It was something that I wasn't even trying to do. I think we talked about that, but I wasn't even trying to do it. It just, it was just happened through just natural relationship and just relationship started happening. So we should, we should smash up our genres. It all because it come from this. Obviously country music came from the church and you got the ryman, which is a church. You got the whole thing comes out of the church. Rock and roll came. Everything comes out of the church. If you want to talk, if you want to get really going as far as art and everything like that, obviously that's where it all came from. Goes this other way. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's so, so close.

[Bobby Bones]

We went to Austria. My wife and I did never been to Austria before. So we went to Austria, and it was amazing. Right. Growing up, didn't go anywhere. Right. So now it's like I'm just trying to go see stuff.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And we go into a church that was 2000 years old.

[Chris Tomlin]

Whatever it was.

[Bobby Bones]

I mean, it was almost.

[Chris Tomlin]

There.

[Bobby Bones]

That's when I feel history. That's when I feel, like, the gravity of existence. And I've been into a couple of churches like that, but we went into one in Austria that was like, you, like, feel your guts move around a little bit because of everything that has happened underneath that roof. You ever go. When you're traveling internationally, do you ever go look at some of these really old worship. I'll just call them places of worship.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah. Yeah. Let me. Can I tell you about one?

[Bobby Bones]

Please.

[Chris Tomlin]

And it'll be. You're like, well, duh. But no, I was. I was in Israel and I got to go to the site of the cross. And now in Israel, if you've been. You know what I'm talking about. But if you haven't, I haven't.

[Bobby Bones]

So I'm not going to know.

[Chris Tomlin]

They build churches over everything. So it's not what you think in your mind, because they've made. The church came. The Catholic church came and built just to memorialize it or enshrine the place. Built these churches over these places. So you're going inside a church to see, like, where the cross was or the tomb, empty tomb. And you're one of these huge, huge churches. And they're ancient, ancient, ancient. But at the side of the cross, there was a place they have the stone where they say that Jesus was laid when they took him off the cross. This is the stone where Joseph would have taken him off of Arimathea. And they laid him down to dress the body. And you're talking about. It's something I'll never forget because here's what I saw is I saw. This was a normal day in the line of people that were lined up, I mean, hundreds of people, for hours. I looked at our tour guide and I was like, is this like this every day? And he said, obviously not now for the wars and things like that. He goes, this was a few years ago. He said, it's every day. And it was every kind of person, Bobby. It was like people. It was like beautiful African dress. It was Asian, it was poor, it was rich. It was like every kind of person you can think of and looks like, lined up. And I watched as everyone approached that stone, and I watched these ladies just kneel at that stone and just, I mean, and kiss that stone. And I thought, wow, it just. It was a little picture of heaven for me. I was like, wow, this is. You know, sometimes we think heaven looks like America or something like that. Maybe it's like, it looks nothing like that. This was the whole world. This was a Tuesday. And the world is. Every kind of person is lined up. He's like, every day they line up people in this line just to stand there and just to. Just to kiss the stone where Jesus was laid. And it was one of those, you talking about everything inside you moving. I just stood over to the side and just watched and just watched and just watched people in their act of worship really just come and kneel there and just thank God and just. You could tell people, and they would just. Some people would pray. Some people would just have a moment and just stop and think and just pray, and you could tell their. Their gratitude in their heart. And I was like, man, what a picture. What a beautiful picture of heaven. So when I, When I get to travel, I, I. I try to go to these places and just. I'm so moved.

[Bobby Bones]

Worship has gone through. We talked about this a bit, like, stylistic changes over the past 20 years from when you started, which isn't. Because again, you, You. It's not like you were seven doing this.

[Chris Tomlin]

No.

[Bobby Bones]

You know, your origin is not that. Like, it was a bit later.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Stylistically, what have you seen change in concert, like, live. Live. I don't want to say music because it's more of an experience, but with Christian music, what have you seen stylistically change in the past 20 years?

[Chris Tomlin]

Oh, my goodness. It's so much. What's so much more popular, I think, across our country, and it's so much. It continues to grow, which is awesome as far as the live experience and concert. But I would say from when I started, it was little, simple songs of a chorus, and that's what was like shaking the church. It was like, oh, my gosh, these guys are. These guys are radical. They're singing with a guitar, and don't bring the drums. It was. It was. It was literally that still, like, don't. Don't bring the drums and, okay, we'll let the guitar. But that's. That's pushing it. And now, you know, churches are filled with just modern music, and it's. And that's. That's how it's changed. But in. In a way. But I still feel people. I still, I still see, still, even. Even the younger generations, you still see people longing for the simplicity, longing for not all the lights and the sound and the everything, but. But more of just what's real. I think more than anything, more than anything now, people are just like, what is. What is real? Don't just put on a show, but what is really real. People are longing for what's real. And that's what I try to hopefully give people in my concerts and my other friends as well, is show people what's real. But, yeah, I mean, it's definitely progressed a lot, especially in the church. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor introducing Instagram Teen accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on.

[Bobby Bones]

All right, buckle up.

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[Chris Tomlin]

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[Chris Tomlin]

And we're back on the bobbycast.

[Bobby Bones]

When you say what's real, what I think about is. And I, I think you're referring to, like, authenticity, meaning you're not up. And I think in part of what I do as well, like, if I'm up and I'm perfect and shiny, that's not real. And I can act like a better version of what I am, but that is not going to resonate. It may feel better to me to be like, look at me. Yeah, life's great. Got it all figured out. Follow along. And again, for my ego, that might feel pretty good, but also know that people are not going to connect with that. They're actually going to connect with me. When it's like, yes, I suck at this. I struggle with this. Yes, I'm good at this. I. And I. When you say that, that's what I hear. Like you're able to share not just a glossy part of life or worship.

[Chris Tomlin]

Exactly. Because no one. That doesn't help anybody. And that's what I think when I say people are looking, longing for the truth, longer for the real. Don't just put on. Just don't. Yeah, don't gloss everything over and like, oh, everything is good. You give your life to God and everything's roses. It's. Man, it's. Life is hard. Life is unfair. Life comes at everybody in such hard ways. But what do you have in those moments? I heard somebody recently say, you know, when the storms come, it separates the players from the pretenders. And that's the truth in life. When the storms come, that separates everybody from those who are pretending and those who are really there, who are really. And that hit me then. That's as old as Jesus teachings, right? You can build your house on the rock, you build your house on the sand. And the storms come, one's going to stay, one's going to crumble. And I think that's what people are longing for. When I say real, that's what I mean.

[Bobby Bones]

How long you been married?

[Chris Tomlin]

14 years.

[Bobby Bones]

What's. What's. What's. What's the key?

[Chris Tomlin]

The key is, I'm sorry. Will you forgive me? That is the key. I mean, that is the key. The key is just. Is pride. Pushing pride down, pushing Saul, pushing Saul away. Of like, I, you know, I deserve this, or I rule this or whatever. That's the key, I think, is. And there's good days and there's days. I'm so blessed by Lauren because she's just so honest and so on me. It makes me better.

[Bobby Bones]

It's funny you lead with honest because my wife's. And I'm 10 years behind you is why I asked that. Like, in marriage, we've married four plus years. And yeah, my wife's honest, but sometimes it doesn't feel good, but it's greater, like it's needed but she's like the first person that I trust to be honest with me. But sometimes it doesn't feel good. And the key for me so far has been when you said that it resonated like crazy has been not to be so defensive so quick.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah. So easy. I get. Oh, it's. I get so defensive. Me, too.

[Bobby Bones]

And to understand that, do you know.

[Chris Tomlin]

All that I'm doing? Do you know. Do you know. Do you know what's going at me? Do you know all the things I mean instantly? And then it's like that. That does not work. That does not work. And. And you have to. And you catch yourself. Sometimes it takes me, you know, 20 minutes. Sometimes it might take me a couple days, you know, to like, okay, what am I doing? I'm. I'm really in a bad place here in my pride and in my defensiveness.

[Bobby Bones]

And, yeah, my wife is smarter than I am, which sucks. It does sucks. I mean, it's awesome, but it's the same, right? It's like your strength is your greatest weakness. But it's like she. She's smarter than I am. She's funnier than I am. She's funnier than I am in a world where I'm celebrated for being funny. And what drives me insane is that she has no. No need or desire to monetize it. None. She does not want to be public. I'm like, you're wasting this talent. Look at this God given talent you have. And it's just sitting here. No. And that. You know that. But for her, I also can accept her honesty most of the time in what I'm creating. And I think that's been so valuable, but very hard. Especially at first.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

When she would tell me a joke wasn't funny, I'd be like, will you write it? And the first time she did and rewrote it, I was humbled. I couldn't have been more humbled.

[Chris Tomlin]

Wow.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, yeah. It was terrible. It was a terrible day, but a great day. But I was like, okay, if you think it's. I did the Opry, and so I'm doing the Opry. I've played the Opry 15 times or so. But, like, one of the times I did the Opry, I'm up and I'm telling a joke, and I came off, and I'm just ready to be celebrated. Great job. Great job. Just the natural. You walk off stage. Part of it is, hey, everybody, tell me how good I did. Even if I don't consciously say that, that's just of Course you come off. Yeah, that's the expectation. Because that's what happens a lot of times they're just like, oh, you did great. And we walk off and we get in the car. And she was like. I said, hey, how do. How do you think it went? She goes, thought it was fine. She goes, but. And she alluded to one part of the set. She was like, that was too low hanging fruit for you. And I said, oh. Oh. I was shocked. I was like, whoa. I was like, what?

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

She was like, there was too low. You're better than that. Like, you can do better than that. Dude, I'm telling you, this is like seven minutes after I'm off stage, I'm in the car ready to be my wife, who I love more than he'd be like, oh, honey, everything you do is delightful. And so she's like, that fruit's too low. You. You got do better. And I'm like, well, then you do it. And she's like, well, I'm not the one that's. Whatever. We get home and like 20 minutes later, she'd rewritten the she rewrite and it was better. And I. You. And I used it in my special. And that hurt. And it hurt. But again, that was a very minor storm. You're talking about the storms, right?

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

Like that was a single cell organism storm.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

But was much stronger after. And it's made me better at realizing, ah, I need that honesty in many ways. And it's not just that, like, that's the funny version of it. But even in like, I never grew up with a family. I don't have a family. Never had a family to have Christmas Eve with. Like her family. Bizarre, foreign. Not because they do anything weird, they're not naked or anything, but it's like I never did that.

[Chris Tomlin]

It's family together.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. It's everybody's being together, watching a movie, having waking, all of it. And that was really difficult for me. And it's still foreign to me. But my wife. And the reason I ask about the wife is because I know. And I just wonder how. Because were similar. You're creating. You have to be constant.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

How your wife affects you in that situation.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah. She makes me say what she has done is made me such a better present to people. I don't know if she's really affected the music as much, but it's just the way I am with people, the way I connect with people, the way I talk with people, the way I understand things. She's helped me so much That I did not before. And most of my friends who have been with me, you know, I mean, I've got bandmates, right, that have been with me long way longer. I've been married, they've known me longer. And all of them would say, you're such a better person.

[Bobby Bones]

Same.

[Chris Tomlin]

You're such a better person. And so that's a. That's, that's amazing, you know, and that's. And, and that's marriage. Marriage is a. It's, it's, it's, it's. No one, no one says marriage is easy, but it is a refining refine. It's such a refining thing. And, you know, I'm so grateful for her and for my girls and three daughters. And they're amazing.

[Bobby Bones]

Worship under the Stars, you're doing. Yeah, you're doing the series. So a couple days in July and then in October. And by the way, it's in New York. Baltimore. You're doing Red Rocks. That's cool.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

Not that they're not all cool, but that's.

[Chris Tomlin]

That's cool.

[Bobby Bones]

That's cool.

[Chris Tomlin]

In Central Park. It's my first time there too.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, yeah. That's cool too.

[Chris Tomlin]

They're all cool.

[Bobby Bones]

That's my point. They're all cool. Red Rocks, those things. Red Rocks is. That's gonna be super cool. So what's happening here, which, you know, I just.

[Chris Tomlin]

Sometimes the settings are just so beautiful when it comes. Especially when it comes to music. Everybody settings are make music so great. But when it comes to. Especially when you worship music, when you have beautiful settings, like when you're playing. I played Red Rock several times and always say if you cannot. If you cannot help people connect with God at Red Rocks, you've got serious. You don't need to be. You need to go sell houses or something because you don't need to be in music. Right? Because you just. It's already. The setting is so incredible. And so, yeah, we went to put together some nights of just beautiful settings, beautiful evenings, beautiful places and have these beautiful nights. So we call Worship under the Stars and maybe it grows from here. But this is our first three. And the Pier 6 in Baltimore, which is beautiful thing out in the harbor, Central park and in Red Rocks. And it's gonna be. It's gonna be awesome.

[Bobby Bones]

I want to end with this and I want to indulge myself with a story from me first. Like five or six years ago, I decided maybe longer than that now, maybe 10 years ago, I don't know, I decided I'm not gonna curse anymore. Used to love cursing. Used to be. Used to be really great at it. Olympic sport. Been an Olympic sport.

[Chris Tomlin]

That's something.

[Bobby Bones]

I was gonna medal. Yeah, I was gonna medal.

[Chris Tomlin]

That's something. To be talented. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

I was good at it. And I thought, I'm done cursing. And not for any sort of moral reason, but because I didn't want to have it as a crutch when creating. So if I were writing jokes, if I were doing radio shows, writing books. Yes, I didn't want to. Because it can be funny. It can also be a crutch that you use whenever you're not funny. And I wanted to challenge myself. So I really haven't said a curse word in 10 years or so. And so not as a celebration of myself. But then when people say a bad word around me, they'll go like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Sorry. Because they know I don't curse. And I'm like, no, I'm good. Like, I used to. If people curse around you, I feel like they'd be like, oh, my goodness. I'm so sorry, Chris.

[Chris Tomlin]

Really bothers me.

[Bobby Bones]

It bothers me.

[Chris Tomlin]

It bothers the heck out of me when people say that. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

When they're, like, so apologetic.

[Chris Tomlin]

It doesn't bother me. And people curse. Let me say that it bothers me when people think that for some reason, because I do what I do again, that they. That feels weird. I'm just like, come on, man, we're. That's normal. I feel the same way. May not say it the same way. Right. The same way. And yeah. It's always. It's always bugged me so much. And I always say, like, come on. Always like, come on, bro, don't say that.

[Bobby Bones]

Same like, I am. I'm good. I've heard him before. I used to say, I'm same. But I wonder if that happened. And I knew, like, if you're playing golf and someone's like, ah, bleep. They're probably like, oh, Chris. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Like, you still play? You playing?

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes. And you're coming.

[Bobby Bones]

I know I haven't. I hurt my shoulder bad last year, so I stopped playing. And then. Here's the problem, Chris. I'm being honest. I started playing pickleball, and you're just.

[Chris Tomlin]

Did you have. You totally, like, fully on and pickleball? You're one of those guys.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, pretty much. I have a court. Right. Just say it when you walked in.

[Chris Tomlin]

I did.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. And here's the thing, Chris. I'm glad you asked. Thank you for asking. Oh, my gosh.

[Chris Tomlin]

We need to talk about this.

[Bobby Bones]

I'm really into pickleball, and I'm going to tell you. But I love golf. But here's the problem with golf.

[Chris Tomlin]

No, let's. I want to talk to the difference between tennis and pickleball.

[Bobby Bones]

I'd be happy to, but here's the problem with golf. It takes too long. And I play golf. I play golf all the time, but I don't have three or four hours.

[Chris Tomlin]

100.

[Bobby Bones]

Because I'm so insecure that I feel like I have to work all the time just to prove to myself I'm worthy, that I don't block out the hours to go play golf. But I can go pickleball in an.

[Chris Tomlin]

Hour, and you get a workout and you feel better. All the things.

[Bobby Bones]

And I love. But I love golf.

[Chris Tomlin]

And.

[Bobby Bones]

Yes. And you've been. So. I'm gonna play. I'm playing your golf tournament. Probably the only time I'm gonna kill somebody with a ball. You know what? I'm in, though. For the Lord, I'm in. Chris. I will hit someone with a ball for the Lord. So have you played pickleball at all?

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes, I do like pickleball, but it's like, it's. All my tennis friends are like, it's so much better than tennis. And I'm like, it's not.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, yeah, I think it. Well, I. Okay, here's why. One of my best friends.

[Chris Tomlin]

Everybody can play pickleball. Not everybody can play tennis.

[Bobby Bones]

I agree. One of my best friends in the whole world, groomsman Andy Roddick, former number one tennis player in the world.

[Chris Tomlin]

Pretty good.

[Bobby Bones]

That's my guy. Right? And so he makes fun of pickleballers like crazy. Like, just really gives it to him, like, that's. Yeah, you guys are lame. And so he. He calls and he goes, hey, this is like a year and a half ago, maybe two years ago. He goes, hey, you're playing pickleball, right? I said, yeah. I said a little bit, because Brett Eldridge, one of my best friends, had the first court, like, of our group.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And so we'd all go to Brett's house and play all the time. And so I was like, yeah, I play, you know, maybe once a week, twice a week. And he says, it's probably pretty easy, right? I'm like, well, you were number one in the world. Like, you won US Open. I feel like for you, it's going to be pretty easy. He goes, okay, cool. I said, why you hate pickleball? Because. Yeah, I still Hate it. He goes, but I'm playing in a tournament, like, a week and a half for a million dollars. And I said, and you haven't played and you're playing.

[Chris Tomlin]

Wow.

[Bobby Bones]

And he was like, yeah. He goes, it's on espn. And I was like, you know, get around, hit a little bit first. He goes, well, I am. I'm going to work out a few days before. And he won.

[Chris Tomlin]

He won.

[Bobby Bones]

He won.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

No, he won. He won.

[Chris Tomlin]

Does that tell you how good he is or how lame pickleball is that you don't have to play?

[Bobby Bones]

It can be both.

[Chris Tomlin]

He can win a tournament.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, I think it's both. I think, one, how good he is because he started playing when we were running together hard. Because he'd be gone for eight months at a time because tennis is international. He's all around the world, hardly ever home, but he'd be home four months a year, and we would hang out all the time. And so we play golf, and we started playing around the same time. And I watched him go from shooting 106 to like, 77 in about three months because his hand. Eye coordination. Yes. And so pickleball, he started playing it and got real good, which, by the way, he tore his meniscus, like, the day before the tournament and still won.

[Chris Tomlin]

Still won.

[Bobby Bones]

Which is crazy. So there's a lameness to it when it comes to tennis, but I like pickleball because the floor is higher. Meaning you don't me. Moss can play.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes, but.

[Bobby Bones]

But if you. To be good, like, I could probably wax you pretty good right now back there. Because I have a. Yeah, you could.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah, because I. I understand. Because I get out and hit my friends who play and they kill me. And I understand. There's a skill to it. There's strategy, all the things, but it's better than tennis. No, it's not. And what about pickleball on tv? That's what I really can't get in.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay.

[Chris Tomlin]

Do you watch it?

[Bobby Bones]

It's difficult for me, too. And I will be full disclosure. I own part of a major league pickleball team.

[Chris Tomlin]

This is so good.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. So it's another podcast, and it's difficult at times. I don't think they have mastered. It reminds me of, like, the 60s when they started shooting football from the top of the bleachers and they really didn't have the angles or know how to. It feels like that right now that they've tried to make it tennis. And it's not. It's a different game.

[Chris Tomlin]

Different game.

[Bobby Bones]

So I don't feel like they've captured the content in a way that reflects how fun the game is, probably. So I think that needs.

[Chris Tomlin]

Needs to progress, needs some help.

[Bobby Bones]

But I do think that pickleball is. Is.

[Chris Tomlin]

Is like I'm watching Wimbledon.

[Bobby Bones]

Not everybody can play tennis. Honestly, they can't. Not everybody can play tennis.

[Chris Tomlin]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

And also tennis, to me was a rich person's game.

[Chris Tomlin]

We didn't.

[Bobby Bones]

The. The equipment. You could buy a paddle now for, like 30 bucks in a little plastic ball.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Smaller court. Yes. It's lame, but it's my lane, so I will. I. I will defend it.

[Chris Tomlin]

It's not. It's not lame. I like it. It's a great game. Yeah, it's a great game. Saying it's that when. When I saw them trying to do it on tv, I was like, oh, yeah, it does this. This is hard.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. It's like wiffle ball to baseball. It's kind of goofy.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

But that doesn't mean it can't be fun and competitive and get a little workout in and. But it's better. I didn't like tennis. I never liked tennis.

[Chris Tomlin]

I loved it. Gosh, I loved it. I was never like a anterotic. I was. Wanted to be.

[Bobby Bones]

But do you have a tennis. Did you have Tennessee High School?

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay. So we. We did. I never was exposed to it, so I probably would have been pro, if I'm being honest. How would I not have been?

[Chris Tomlin]

No doubt. I mean, look at you.

[Bobby Bones]

Look at me now. Yeah. I couldn't. Couldn't be any more pro. Okay, look, you guys follow Chris on Instagram at Kris Tomlin.

[Chris Tomlin]

Oh, you're too kind.

[Bobby Bones]

So after your heart is in house of David.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yep.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay. The song the Last Supper, which you are an executive producer of.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

And no greater love is in the credits. Don't. Don't stop watching till the song finishes.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Once the movie ends.

[Bobby Bones]

Yes. So watch it. But then don't stop until the credits roll.

[Chris Tomlin]

That's right.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay. And then as of now, you can watch the first time the documentary is on the wonder platform. And then the song as of now, because it is beyond April 11th when this airs, it is on anywhere you stream music.

[Chris Tomlin]

That's right.

[Bobby Bones]

And the Good Friday. But you don't need to tell.

[Chris Tomlin]

Good Friday.

[Bobby Bones]

Take it. You're good.

[Chris Tomlin]

No, we're good. We're good. You don't have enough seats. Good Friday. Okay, that's good. And you're coming. We'll see. Which if your parent. If your wife's Parents come. We'll see.

[Bobby Bones]

If they come, it's because they wanted to come to the show for you. If they don't come, it's because you didn't convince them. It wasn't enough of a fact that you convinced them. Yeah, yeah. But either way, I will say I was genuinely moved and I am jaded as all get out, and I was genuinely moved by the show.

[Chris Tomlin]

Well, I appreciate that.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. And I mean, I know we get around, but in all seriousness, full sincerity, genuinely move.

[Chris Tomlin]

Well, I hope. I appreciate you saying. And I hope you can come this year because it's gonna be really special.

[Bobby Bones]

The part that I didn't like, though, if I. Yeah, the honest part is.

[Chris Tomlin]

Probably unlike this is your wife speaking right now. She's.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's that when we pulled down, because you were so nice to give us good parking, I saw who all the special guests with surprises were by the parking spots with their names on it. So, yeah, I mean, that's, you know, rich. Rich person problems.

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

But I saw like, oh, Lainey, oh. And I was like, oh, there's no surprises now. I just saw everybody who's parking down there in the parking Chris gave us. That's the part I didn't like. But you did. But the show was excellent. But next time, maybe I just blindfold myself and sit passenger and let my wife walk me.

[Chris Tomlin]

Got a better idea. We're gonna put you out.

[Bobby Bones]

No, no, no, no. Let's not do that. I like exactly where we were. We had the best parking spot.

[Chris Tomlin]

I got parking where you will not know. No, no, no, no. Promise you.

[Bobby Bones]

I don't want to take this the wrong way. It's not even marked the same parking at Chris Tomlin. You guys go see Chris. It's an excellent show. And Chris, good to see you, man. That was awesome.

[Chris Tomlin]

Thank you, man. It's good to be here. Thanks for listening to a Bobbycast production.

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[Chris Tomlin]

Flying off to what's next.

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[Chris Tomlin]

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