← The Bobby Bones Show
The Bobby Bones Show
BOBBYCAST: Dan Wilson of Semisonic on The Real Story of "Closing Time" + Writing with Adele + Splitting the Money Evenly in the Band + Bobby and Mike D Talk Famous Artists Who Wrote Songs for Other Artists
00:58:16
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- [00:01]
Dan Wilson
Every morning brings a fresh new energy and no matter what the day holds.
- [00:06]
Bobby Bones
We come to the Today show for all of it.
- [00:08]
Dan Wilson
We get the best start to the day because we started together. Watch the Today show weekdays at 7am on NBC.
- [00:15]
Bobby Bones
Thank you to the presenting sponsor of today's episode, American Express. I'm always traveling for work, which means I'm constantly trying new restaurants in a bunch of different cities. Some good, some bad. And while I love most of the food I try, the rewards I am earning with my Amex Gold card while eating in these different cities is the best part. With Amexgold you earn 4 times Membership Rewards points on purchases at restaurants on up to $50,000 per year. And now you can leave the restaurant and get straight to the action with access to card member entrances at select venues. That's the powerful backing of American Express Card member entrance access not limited to AMEX Gold Card terms apply. Learn more@americanexpress.com withamx no matter where the new sound is coming from, T Mobile helps you tune in because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now, keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualified unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card is no cash access and expires in six.
- [01:32]
Dan Wilson
And then I got one email from a 16 year old girl after the song became really big and she said I have a theory about your song Closing Time and I know it's pretty crazy and if I'm wrong, just forgive me, but no way. Yeah.
- [01:47]
Bobby Bones
Welcome to episode 509 Dan Wilson of Simasonic Closing Time. Time to close the doors and time to close the stores. It's kind of it, huh? Almost. Yeah. We've tried to get Dan. I've tried to get Dan for a long time. The problem is Dan doesn't live in Nashville and I kind of didn't want to do it over zoom because Dan is not only Closing Time, he's also a massive songwriter and has written so many songs and I guess I'll set it up with that first. Semisonic has a tour. It's Toad the Wet Sprocket, Semisonic Sixpence non the Richer. That's pretty legit though, because Sixpence on the Richer has Closing time. No, they have There she Goes. You know it's a cover, by the way. There she goes again. It's by the laws. Yeah, Las. Don't let the accent confuse you. Not the laws, like the. But the Las. But their biggest song is the one where Kiss me. She walks down the right. Is that that one? She's all that. Yeah, yeah. Underneath bar. Beautiful barley. Yeah, you know the words better than I do. Yeah, that'd be a really fun show to go. I would go to that show. That sounds like you. Yeah, that whole show sounds like me. Like that's like right in my wheelhouse. Dan also has a new instrumental album called Good Night Los Angeles. Comes out May 9th, but again, Semisonic for sure. But he's a seven time Grammy nominee, a four time Grammy winner. And then it's like a second life. It's like he was reincarnated into something else. Amazing, except it was the same person. And I didn't know why Samusonic stopped. I knew they were what some people would consider a one hit wonder. Because one song was massive. They had other songs, did pretty well, but. Because if one song is massive and you really don't meet that with another massive song, you get labeled that. Even if you had other hits that did pretty well. But Simasoni does their thing and they quit. Not because they weren't having hits anymore, but he'll tell that story. I did not know that. And it kind of sucks. It really sucked then. But it kind of sucks. But then it put him on this whole music thing where he's just writing songs he wrote for the chicks. Not ready to make nice. Was that song of the year Grammys? It was at least nominated. Nominated at least, yeah. Album of the year. As a producer on Adele 21, do you know why all Adele's records are numbered? Her age? Yep. So you did know that or did you guess? No, I knew that. Yeah. That's kind of cool. He won for writing best country song for Chris Stapleton's White Horse. Best song written for visual media for It Never went away. For Jon Batiste, I could keep going and I'll go quickly. James Bay. These people he wrote with or wrote for. Celine Dion, Meghan Trainor, Noah Cyrus, Christina Perry, Vance Joy Tenille Towns, Leon bridges, Teddy Geiger, JoJo, the chicks. Then it goes back to Leon Bridges, Celine Dion. It's just. It's two pages of Noah Kahn, James Bay, Mike Posner, John Legend, Josh Groban, Steve Perry, Jason Mraz, Leann Rimes and Stevie Nicks. Niall Horan, Dierks, Bentley, Weezer. The dude writes like, oh, there's a third page. Oh my God. And even that is like half of his Panic at the disco. Harry Connick Jr. Chris Stapleton again. Taylor Swift, Pink, Adele. I mean, Adele. He wrote Nevermind out there's someone like you. You can. Closing Time. Every song turns into that. Yeah. Anyway, he's awesome and I was super pumped to be able to sit down with him. This is one we waited for. We were super happy he came to the studio and you can follow him. Dan Wilsonmusic and now here he is, Dan Wilson of Cine Sonic, one of the great writers of our day. Dan, first, you have been a bit of a white whale for me as I've been trying to track you down for a long time. Because your story to me is two different versions of. What we do here is we talk to a lot of songwriters and producers and creators at times that people don't know unless somebody highlights them.
- [06:00]
Dan Wilson
Yep.
- [06:01]
Bobby Bones
And then also, you're the guy from Semisonic, which is a whole different. A whole different story. Does it feel like two musical lives.
- [06:09]
Dan Wilson
Like, separated in time, really? Most of Semisonic happened before I started earnestly writing songs for other people, with other people. Even though the band is still together and we do things as much as we can. Most of that happened before 2002 and then the co writing and producing phase began around then and until now. So yes, it does feel like two different lives.
- [06:40]
Bobby Bones
I have a significant amount of friends and I'm not sure who you write with when you're in town. Because you're here, you're rioting in town, right?
- [06:46]
Dan Wilson
Yeah.
- [06:46]
Bobby Bones
Yeah. That their careers had a similar arc. They didn't have the success that you had in the artist side, but they came to be an artist, a frontman. And in one way or another, they either realized they don't want to travel, that the touring part is such a grind, or they got dropped and they were like, you know what? I don't have the tenacity to do what some of the artists do and go get a third and fourth record deal. Or they're just like, you know, I don't think I'm gonna cut it as an artist, so I'm now gonna focus on what I started doing first, which was songwriting. What version of that did your life play?
- [07:18]
Dan Wilson
Well, it's sort of in a. Almost like backwards or upside down way. When I. When I first came up, I played bass and jazz bands and I played classical piano and I played guitar and thought about Carole King. But I really just wanted to be in bands. And once I had a band that was really good, I realized that it needed songs and so I would need to really learn how to be a good songwriter. And that took a long time for me to do, but it was almost like got a band love to perform. I'm going to need to learn how to write. It just seemed. It just seemed like the only way to go.
- [07:56]
Bobby Bones
And where did you live? Because a lot of people come here and they go, oh, I've not co written before because in Nashville you're in a room with another person, sometimes two other people.
- [08:03]
Dan Wilson
Yeah.
- [08:04]
Bobby Bones
Where did you learn to write? Or did you just start writing by yourself and just. It got better or worse?
- [08:08]
Dan Wilson
Well, I had. I was really lucky because my brother Matt was super into music and we're only two years apart and he and I, my parents gave us an acoustic guitar as a joint present. So we shared this guitar and we both learned all the chords together slowly. And we both started writing songs together when I was like 14 and he was 12 or something. So we were co writing from the beginning.
- [08:36]
Bobby Bones
And was that in Minnesota?
- [08:38]
Dan Wilson
In Minnesota, yeah. I grew up in Minnesota.
- [08:41]
Bobby Bones
And if your parents gave you a guitar, so music in the house. Because if you're classically trained, did they have an influence on you learning to the next. Because I can play guitar, but I'm not that.
- [08:52]
Dan Wilson
My, you know, my. My parents were. Loved music but were not musicians. My dad had been in it like a doo wop quartet in high school, so. And they sounded okay. There was a record that they made, but it wasn't an aspiration. And I don't think they thought we would become professional musicians or anything like that.
- [09:10]
Bobby Bones
At what stage of your life was it your thing? And you knew it was gonna be your thing forever.
- [09:14]
Dan Wilson
Like when I was like 12, were.
- [09:16]
Bobby Bones
You that kid in. I guess that would be junior high. Were you the music kid?
- [09:20]
Dan Wilson
Yeah, probably. Although I always made a lot of. I drew a lot of pictures. I got in a bunch of trouble for the pictures and never for the music because I could make a really killer satirical cartoon of a teacher.
- [09:34]
Bobby Bones
Of that. Of your teacher?
- [09:35]
Dan Wilson
My teachers, yeah. So I would sit in the back and draw pictures and they eventually got wise to me and they would like stroll back and see what I was drawing and pick it up and take it away. Then I found out later they kept them.
- [09:46]
Bobby Bones
Am I crazy? I think I've seen some of your lyric sketches where you do lyrics and drawings in the lyric.
- [09:52]
Dan Wilson
Yeah, yeah. So that was. I was either gonna be. Somebody asked me once at a party, if this music thing doesn't work, what are you going to do with your life? And I said, well, you know, I'll probably be a painter. And they said, you mean like paint houses? What do you mean? I said, no, like a fine art painter. And they laughed because that as a fallback career, that was a pretty dumb idea too.
- [10:13]
Bobby Bones
Yeah, the fallback is almost like as outrageous as the first career, you know? So when you are finishing high school, did you again, if you're that trained, I'm assuming you went to college to do music.
- [10:23]
Dan Wilson
Yeah. Well, no, not to do music. My parents got me into the piano lessons because they thought. My dad said, and this is kind of funny, my dad said to me, you know, if you take piano lessons, then you get good. You'll be at a party in high school and you'll be able to play songs on the piano and everyone will sing along. But that was my dad's era. Nobody did that when I was growing up.
- [10:48]
Bobby Bones
Yeah, it still does feel like that, though. Like, I took piano lessons as an adult and that was much harder.
- [10:53]
Dan Wilson
Yeah, of course.
- [10:54]
Bobby Bones
And I was like, man, I'm gonna just be somewhere and there's gonna be a piano. I had the same thought that your dad told you and everybody's gonna be so impressed. And I never got to that stage. But I don't think that theory actually has died yet. Does it happen? Almost never. Unless it's like Paul McCartney was playing at a party and we hear how Paul and Taylor are singing.
- [11:12]
Dan Wilson
Right. Charlie Booth led us in a sing along.
- [11:14]
Bobby Bones
I've actually never seen it, now that I think about it, where just someone dominates a party by getting on the piano and surprising everyone.
- [11:19]
Dan Wilson
I know. I think there's a scene in Rear Window where one of the neighbor is a Broadway songwriter and he always has parties where he's playing the piano and everyone in the party is singing along. But that's a movie, obviously.
- [11:29]
Bobby Bones
Yeah, that's much more of a even Two and a Half Men thing where Charlie Sheen's playing the piano.
- [11:33]
Dan Wilson
Yeah.
- [11:33]
Bobby Bones
You're like, wow, look at that.
- [11:34]
Dan Wilson
Yeah.
- [11:35]
Bobby Bones
So you go to Harvard.
- [11:36]
Dan Wilson
Yeah.
- [11:36]
Bobby Bones
That's pretty cool. Yeah, well, yeah, because I'm assuming you were just extremely studious by even your actions, the drawing and the music. I assume that effort went into learning as well.
- [11:48]
Dan Wilson
Yeah, I just, you know, I was a dutiful first son, but also I. I was super enthused about things. So I had a. I had a job or kind of a freelance life in high school, making cartoons for magazines around Minneapolis and St. Paul.
- [12:07]
Bobby Bones
That's. That's pretty crazy.
- [12:08]
Dan Wilson
And some of them are pretty good, the illustrations. And. And my parents, when I applied to colleges, they advised me to make a portfolio of the cartoons that I made, send it along with the applications. And so I think that's probably why I got into Harvard, because I had straight A's and high test scores and also was a crazy cartoonist.
- [12:31]
Bobby Bones
And like, found a way to stick out is what it sounds like, because they're gonna see 10,000 versions of the perfect student, whatever those finger quotes are. But it was a way to stand out. See, you drew this stuff in the packet or on the applique. Where did you do the drawings?
- [12:46]
Dan Wilson
Sent a little manila envelope full of Xerox copies of the pictures that I'd published. Like 20 of them or something like that.
- [12:54]
Bobby Bones
Yeah, I'd have to let you in, even with mid grades, if I'm being honest. If they would have come and been that good. That's super cool. Had anyone in your family been to Harvard?
- [13:01]
Dan Wilson
My dad had gone to Dartmouth and he went to Harvard Medical School. So I guess I was a legacy to some degree.
- [13:11]
Bobby Bones
So to you, your dad showed you it could be done?
- [13:14]
Dan Wilson
Yeah, of course. Yes. Yes.
- [13:15]
Bobby Bones
That's cool.
- [13:15]
Dan Wilson
Yeah, it was a possibility. That was real.
- [13:18]
Bobby Bones
And you get to Harvard and are you. When you're. I've spent a lot of time not actually at Harvard, but in that area of the country. And you're up in your Boston, are you playing? Are you learning to play up there? Are you playing shows? When do you start actually playing? When do you decide you're gonna go out and do clubs and stuff?
- [13:32]
Dan Wilson
Well, when I was a freshman in college, I. I met some guys, and not from, not from Harvard who had a band that I thought was really cool and they asked me to play bass. So I was doing gigs already one or two weekend nights. If we could do it in, in Boston.
- [13:53]
Bobby Bones
Were you like a kid looking to play bass somewhere? Did you have like a post, like peel off and call?
- [13:56]
Dan Wilson
I would have. If I hadn't met those guys, I would have. I would have.
- [13:58]
Bobby Bones
How did you even get in the same situation as these other musicians you weren't in school with?
- [14:02]
Dan Wilson
Well, I saw an ad that they put up. It was two guys who went to Berkeley and two other guys who were just musicians. I can't remember what their setup was.
- [14:15]
Bobby Bones
My assumption is if they went to Berkeley, they were high level musicians.
- [14:18]
Dan Wilson
Yeah, these guys are really good.
- [14:20]
Bobby Bones
And so for you to Jump into that. You had to also be pretty good.
- [14:24]
Dan Wilson
I was pretty good on the bass and I showed up to rehearsal on time and, you know the basics. But we, we were gigging right away freshman year, and then I just really never stopped. And I remember it was funny, I went to a 10 year college reunion and maybe this point, yeah, maybe a 15 year. I can't remember what it was, but I already had a couple of Medium hits with Semisonic. And all these people at my reunion said, so how come we never saw you? Why did we never meet? This happened over and over and over again. And I realized that I was just never on the scene socially. I didn't go to any parties. I was always out doing gigs.
- [15:12]
Bobby Bones
Were you gigging? You have to drive a few hours gigging, or was it all. Since there were so many places near Boston, like, were you actually traveling a bit?
- [15:18]
Dan Wilson
We would get in a van and, you know, a cargo van and six of us drive up to, you know, the. On the coast. It was usually on the coast of Massachusetts, but we'd go, you know, an hour or two hours away.
- [15:30]
Bobby Bones
And what was this band?
- [15:32]
Dan Wilson
This, this band was called Animal Dance.
- [15:35]
Bobby Bones
Did any of those folks in Animal Dance turn into any of the people in Semisonic?
- [15:40]
Dan Wilson
My brother Matt was in that band. And Matt and I started a band after that called Tripp Shakespeare. And then I started Semisonic with the bassist of Trip Shakespeare and me and a drummer friend.
- [15:56]
Bobby Bones
What about Semisonic was different than Tripp Shakespeare or the band before that? Or was it people just attrition, like life. Attrition of life. And people were changing?
- [16:06]
Dan Wilson
Not really. Well, my brother was the. Matt was the leader of Trip Shakespeare and we had traveled, we had toured for eight years or something like that. And everybody was medium burned out on it, I think, and he wanted to take a break from the band. So we just stopped playing. And we had been extremely like. I don't know, we were like essentially a jam band. Not a jazz band, a jam band. And we would practice every day, but you'd think it was aimless because we would just jam all day long, like five days a week. And so then at our shows we'd learn our songs and then we'd just turn them into crazy, lengthy druggie freakouts.
- [16:49]
Bobby Bones
Would some of those songs be writing sessions, though? Like some of the jamming, would that be writing sessions?
- [16:53]
Dan Wilson
Then they would lead to songs. Yeah, yeah. Especially if something really, really special happened and it felt like we all could remember it, then that would turn into.
- [16:59]
Bobby Bones
A song, you know, and With Semisonic, and you're the singer. Was this the first time that you said, hey, I'm gonna be the guy? Was that a desire of yours to now move up front?
- [17:08]
Dan Wilson
I. Yeah, I. It was never my dream to be a celebrity or anything like that, but I did want to sing for people, and I. Trip Shakespeare was like, one way. Like, we were extremely dedicated, and we worked really, really hard. And also, the music we made was kind of wild and especially live. And I had always wanted to do things that were more, like, aligned with the charts that were. Because that's what I always listened to was, like, pop music. So when we started Semisonic, I told the guys, John and Jacob, that I had some principles I'd like to use. And, you know, what do you guys think the principles were? Life is more important than music. You know, if we're having, like, a quarrel or if we're. If we're. If someone's just really bummed out and can't play their instrument and wants to go to the bar, we're not going to rehearse. We're not going to apply ourselves. We're just going to go hang out. That was one thing. Second thing was, if it's not good within an hour or so, a song, if it doesn't sound great within an hour or so of us trying it, I'll go back and write another song. We're not going to torture ourselves to get something to sound good because usually it's the song's fault. That's my opinion. And then the third thing was, if I can be the last word on all things, I'll be collaborative, but we'll have a guiding principle, and I'll be the deciding vote. And we're going to split everything we earn from the band equally three ways.
- [19:02]
Bobby Bones
Was that even in the publishing, the writing part, because you guys wrote everything together or even if you didn't. Even if you didn't, it was still going to be split. Their names were on it.
- [19:10]
Dan Wilson
Nope. I would just pay.
- [19:14]
Bobby Bones
Wow. Honor code. Big time.
- [19:16]
Dan Wilson
It wasn't. Yeah. We didn't really write it down, but, I mean, it did seem like I had agreed to it. And it's. You know, it's a one. That. And also, I don't know, once. Once you start earning good money for music, you can say, yeah, I'm gonna need three times as much as this, but I don't know. Do you really like it? Doesn't it? I'd rather not burn two of the most important friendships in my life to have a Little more money and also.
- [19:41]
Bobby Bones
A trio probably makes it a bit easier too.
- [19:42]
Dan Wilson
Yeah, well, if it was more so.
- [19:44]
Bobby Bones
Than a five or six people person band and if you're doing all the work. Oh, I would imagine that.
- [19:49]
Dan Wilson
Oh, you're revealing me to have a line. I would draw a line at. Yeah.
- [19:54]
Bobby Bones
I was watching a story on something corporate. The band, and they're touring now and they were talking about ticket prices and the guy had. He blacked out the show. But the lead singer, something corporate, was like, look at this. This is where all the money goes. And he's like, okay, so our guarantee is this. And when it was all boiled down with all the added fees and venue and traveling, he's like, we're each making about $7,000 a night on a $100,000 guarantee, fully sold out show because. And they still. They split the money even. Which. That just reminded me of that because I still. I liked that, that the band still, after their success and they're still touring really well, the bass player and the singer are making the same amount of money. And I think that's probably an agreement they had way early that they're still holding onto today, which I think makes the band fundamentally better too. Right. I think everything is based. So they agreed fundamentally that you are the guy and that's the reason that you guys are. So how was the band different than musically? Like, then what happens?
- [20:59]
Dan Wilson
Well, it's a trio and it's me playing guitar and it's. And the things I liked at the time were kind of loud riff rock. And so we were much more focused on just sort of powerful loud rock all the time.
- [21:22]
Bobby Bones
Were you focused on like bigger hooks, like hookier songs?
- [21:25]
Dan Wilson
Yeah, well, I naturally would gravitate towards that anyway. But yeah, we definitely. I mean, every band has a sort of range of, you know, positions that people take. Like. Like, I was always willing to do the hookiest, kind of possibly corniest thing, you know, musically and try it out. And then Jacob, the drummer, had a. Usually was a pretty good barometer of taste. And then John, our bass player has always been like the coolest guy in the room and has a real. His cheese meter is very sensitive. So if it's cheesy, he's like, no, I refuse. We can't do that, or I hate this or whatever. So between us, I would probably be the one trying to write something that everybody could sing along to. And sometimes when you swing like that, you end up with something pretty hokey, you know, So I. They would be there to kind of Say not. Not cool.
- [22:27]
Bobby Bones
Did you guys move to Los Angeles or, like, form ish in Los Angeles?
- [22:31]
Dan Wilson
No, we, we. We. John grew up in St. Paul. I grew up in Minneapolis. Jacob moved to Minneapolis several years before we started the band and we stayed in Minneapolis. And the reason we stayed in Minneapolis, I'm pretty sure, is because Prince was there at the same time, and his whole empire was out in the suburbs, in Minnetonka. He didn't move to LA until, I don't know, it was the 2000s maybe, you know, he was in Minneapolis bringing all the business to him, bringing the producers to him, bringing all the talent to him and sending music out to LA from Minneapolis. And we just. Like you said about my dad at Harvard, Prince made it seem possible for us to stay at home and be part of a scene there and be with the people we loved and also have a chance at reaching a broad audience.
- [23:23]
Bobby Bones
When did you guys decide you wanted to pursue a record deal or did they come after you because you were getting some traction?
- [23:29]
Dan Wilson
Tripp Shakespeare, the band before Semisonic, had been on A and M Records. So we were a known. And we probably. Tripp Shakespeare was a band where, like, if I. Even now I run into musicians in LA who were at our shows at the time, even now, which is crazy to me, but I never run into a member of the general public who was at a Trip Shakespeare show. You know, it was all musicians, but that. So the industry's the same way. Like, they go to. The people in the music industry, go to shows they like. They love the stuff. So. So they had. A lot of them had seen Trip Shakespeare and, oh, Dan Wilson's starting a new band. You know, we're curious. So there was already. There was. There was interest really early in us getting a record deal. And it was kind of a. You could really be a band. Had only rehearsed in your garage and toured, you know, for four years or whatever and get a big record deal. At that time, it was.
- [24:27]
Bobby Bones
If the right person saw you.
- [24:28]
Dan Wilson
If the right person saw you, or if you just got some sort of regional radio. Yeah, it's different now. What was it like the way Tick Tock is now.
- [24:37]
Bobby Bones
Whoa. So what was the first single that you guys did? You cut a single or you cut a bunch of songs first?
- [24:43]
Dan Wilson
We did a tape of four songs and we sent it. We. We sold it to fans and we sent it to radio stations, and a couple radio stations played the cassette tape on the radio.
- [25:00]
Bobby Bones
Any of the songs that ended up being big for you guys?
- [25:04]
Dan Wilson
Yeah. One of them there was a song called fnt, Fascinating New Thing. And that ended up getting played by, in its early demo form in Minneapolis and in the Midwest, you know, in different, different stations. And then that was. Yeah, that song came out on our first album and ended up in a movie. And it did a lot. It had a long life actually.
- [25:36]
Bobby Bones
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.
- [25:41]
Dan Wilson
Every morning brings a fresh new energy. This is today.
- [25:45]
Bobby Bones
And no matter what the day holds.
- [25:47]
Dan Wilson
We come to the Today show for all of it. When things are tough, we talk about it. When there's something to figure out, we dig into it. And when there's joy, we celebrate it. Because today is where it's all happening. We get the best start to every morning because we start it together. Watch the Today show with Savannah Guthrie and Craig Melvin, weekdays at 7am on NBC.
- [26:10]
Bobby Bones
Thank you to the presenting sponsor of today's episode, American Express. I'm always traveling for work, which means I'm constantly trying new restaurants in a bunch of different cities. Some good, some bad. And while I love most of the food I try, the rewards I am earning with my AMEX Gold card while eating in these different cities is the best part. With AMEX Gold, you earn four times membership rewards points on purchases at restaurants on up to $50,000 per year. And now you can leave the restaurant and get straight to the action with access to card member entrances at select venues. That's the powerful backing of American Express card member entrance access not limited to AMEX Gold card terms apply. Learn more@americanexpress.com withamex introducing Instagram Teen accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on.
- [26:58]
Dan Wilson
Alright, buckle up. Good job.
- [27:00]
Bobby Bones
New Instagram Teen accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see. And we're back on the bobbycast. So what's the story? Because everybody, there's always, not always. Most of the times it's like, oh, was the last song added? Or we never thought it was gonna be good or it wasn't. It was misinterpreted. What's the story on Closing Time? Like, was it the last song? Was it the first song?
- [27:33]
Dan Wilson
Closing Time. So semisonic. We make our first album. It gets a lot of critical praise.
- [27:44]
Bobby Bones
Major Label was the first.
- [27:46]
Dan Wilson
Okay, Major Label. It gets a lot of critical praise. It's called Great Divide because we, we did half of it in Minneapolis and half of it in Los Angeles. So we would always go over the Continental Divide to work on the record back and forth. So we did Great Divide. It got a lot of great press, it got a lot of great reviews. All the musos liked it once again. But I had thought it had hits on it and it didn't. It had some sort of songs that got on the radio, but the people, the general public, didn't respond to it, really.
- [28:19]
Bobby Bones
Do you think, though, not to interrupt you, but before you move on, do you think listening back to that now, you still think it has hits on it, or do you think the version of you then thought it because you had just done it?
- [28:28]
Dan Wilson
I think it was pretty wiggly. I think it was. It had too much going on much of the time because we had come out of Trip Shakespeare, which was like the ultimate band of too much going on all the time. So we were. It was. It was. We were still kind of settling down into a kind of simplicity that I was seeking. So, yeah, in retrospect, that first Semisonic album was not simple enough in the right way.
- [29:01]
Bobby Bones
And when you took that, what was that feed? Was that feedback to you?
- [29:04]
Dan Wilson
That was. No, nobody told me that.
- [29:06]
Bobby Bones
Okay, then why. This next record was different, though.
- [29:10]
Dan Wilson
The strange part was that I had thought that Great Divide was full of hits, and then it was like a critical smash, but not. Not a hit. And so I was kind of taken aback by that, and I decided that our next album was just going to be an art project and I wasn't going to think about hits. But at that point, I was like, I was on fire as a writer. So I wrote 60 songs for feeling Strangely Fine the next album, and a lot of them were good. And there were a couple that everybody in the band just, oh, yeah, we gotta do this, we gotta do this. We gravitated to our favorites pretty quickly. And Closing Time was kind of in the middle of the batch when I had probably written 30 of the songs and I was doing a song every day. And I would. Once or twice a week, I'd go over to John's house and John and Jake and I would make a really simple demo, like what in Nashville you'd call a work tape. Just acoustic guitar and. And singing. And in the batch of songs that we kind of weeded it down to, like, 15 songs that just sounded like work tapes. And we didn't do demos, really. And Closing Time was one song that people went. When they heard that demo, people would say, whoa, whatever you're doing there, you need to make more songs like that.
- [30:36]
Bobby Bones
Did you feel like that was a simple Song like, what was your feeling about the song in comparison to the other stuff you were writing and the last record you did?
- [30:44]
Dan Wilson
I wasn't really comparing. And I definitely didn't think that Closing Time was going to be an international smash that still is played 25 years later. No, but I knew it was good and I thought it was going to be. And it sort of. It was about our lives, you know, it was about bar time. We had been. I had been on tour at this point for nine years or 10 years in the nightclubs of the Midwest and hopefully the coasts, you know. So it was. It was just about our lives. So I didn't really have an objectivity about it, but I knew it was really, really good and I knew that it fit. I had this scheme. I told Jacob, our drummer, that what I really love is, like, Carole King, Paul Simon, James Taylor, like, all the music that I heard when I was nine, I really still loved it. And I just wanted to write songs that could live up to that standard. And then we would play them really loud, whatever they were. So I would try my best to write a Carole King song. And then in rehearsal, we just play it as loud as we could. And some of them, you know, sucked in that form, and we just would drop those songs. But some of them sounded great in that form. And Closing Time is a really good busker song. You can play it on a street corner.
- [32:13]
Bobby Bones
Was it you said bar? Because I've heard nine different theories of what the song's actually about. I feel like the two songs that have the most theories are Ben Falls, 5 Brick and Closing Time. Because if you just go enough places, there are enough theories about the song.
- [32:25]
Dan Wilson
Right.
- [32:25]
Bobby Bones
So what is it about?
- [32:27]
Dan Wilson
Another of my little. I get on these kicks where I have something that I think is the. The guiding principle of everything. So at the time I was writing for Feeling Strangely Fine, I had this guiding principle that all the lyrics, every line of lyrics should have two kind of plausible meanings. I didn't want any lines of the lyrics to be just one simple, straightforward meaning. So when I was writing Closing Time, I actually thought I was writing a straightforward song. About halfway through, I thought, well, this is literally. It's just about who are we going to hook up with at the end of the night when they turn on the lights? And then I. At the same time, my wife and I were expecting our first child. And so I was thinking about fatherhood, I was thinking about birth. I was thinking about that a lot. And halfway through the song, I was just like, oh, My gosh, this could totally be about being born. This could totally be about getting bounced from the womb, you know? And at that point, I. I didn't change any of the words. Just all the words. Open all the doors and let you out into the world. Turn all the lights on over every boy and every girl. Like, there's certain things about it. Boy and girl. Like, these are. This is about a bar. Why are these boys and girls? You know, but it's because it's about little baby boys and baby girls. Also, one last call for alcohol. Finish your whiskey and beer. That seems like straightforwardly bar time related, but it's also about being cut off from the umbilical cord, you know, you can't have this anymore, you know, and you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. It's like, it's all about, like emerging into the world. And once I realized that, I was laughing and laughing and I was like, everyone's gonna laugh so hard. This is gonna be really funny. So I finished a song I did throw one line into to just be straightforward. Gather up your jackets, Move it to the exits. That was just. That was a straightforward Bar Time song. But I think every other line in the song had that to me, magical double meaning. And then no one got it. My band didn't get it.
- [34:40]
Bobby Bones
Which part didn't they get? The double meaning or the birth or the bar?
- [34:44]
Dan Wilson
They just thought it was bar time. Only no one ever said it's about someone being born. I. Nobody. And I just made a funny decision. I'm a big explainer, as you could probably tell. You know, I'm always like ready to tell everybody why I did something or what. But I did decide with that song not to really talk about the double meaning. And then I got one email from a 16 year old girl in Utah after the song became really big. And she said, dear Dan Wilson, I have a theory about your song Closing Time. And I know it's pretty crazy and if I'm wrong, just forgive me, but it sounds to me like it's about someone being born.
- [35:25]
Bobby Bones
No way.
- [35:26]
Dan Wilson
Yeah. One person. One person. And I was kind of. I was so overjoyed, like, okay, somebody got it. Then I just let. I just let it lie for about 15 years and then I just started talking about it.
- [35:40]
Bobby Bones
So after Semisonic, I don't know, do you feel confident as a songwriter? Like, was there confidence or was there, okay, this is a new version of all this is 100% of me. Now you're just gonna Write, you know, and not tour. Did you have to rebuild the confidence?
- [35:57]
Dan Wilson
Well, one of the reasons I stopped touring was because the. The baby in question spent a year in the hospital. Coco, my daughter. And we were driving back and forth to intensive care for eight months and then to the step down intensive care for four more months. And I just realized that when all this. And the doctors told us this is going to be a complicated life and very medicalized for a long time, and I just realized that there was going to have to be a horizon somewhere in sight for the touring. And I managed to, like, tour like crazy for another four years, three years, and then it had to kind of take a step back for me, being a parent. And I would say my confidence has always been very mixed. I can't say I'm always. I'm always willing to go into something and try it. Like, I'm willing to go up on stage and sing a song with people that I only Learned, you know, 20 minutes ago. I don't know if that's confidence or I don't know what that is, but I'm definitely ready to be worried and insecure at all times about what I have to offer every time I write a song. And I think, this is great. Okay, that's it. That's the last one. It's never going to happen again. It's like. And I have to tell myself, no, you think this every time. You always think it's the last one, but it's never the last one. But it's. So coming out of Semisonic and going into trying to write songs for people was interesting because I kept asking people, do you want to write a song with me? And in Minneapolis, no one wanted. Wanted to do it. No one wanted to, like, because everyone thought their method was really dumb and really embarrassing. And they made it up themselves, which is true. They did make it up themselves. Nobody realized that they made up the same method as everybody else. Everyone is the same. Their method is hacked together over years and then slowly refined, you know. So I kept asking people in Minneapolis, will you write a song with me? And people are like, no, I've never done that. You know, no one wanted to do it. So one of the things I did in response to that is to. Is to organize some trips to Nashville because I had heard and I had always listened to country records. And when we were on tour, like, our drummer, Elaine was obsessed with Alan Jackson. So we'd always listen to the. We'd listen to the Dead and Alan Jackson and Soundgarden and Nirvana and Flaming Lips and Liz Fair and Bjork, you know, but one of it was country was always in the mix, and I had a lot of reverence for the music that came out of Nashville. So I thought, okay, maybe I can go to Nashville and, like, learn what it is that they do there. That's that I admire so much. So I came here every year, a couple times for, like, five or six years, and wrote with people.
- [38:57]
Bobby Bones
One of the songs you wrote with Dierks, good friend of mine, you wrote Home with Dierks. And to me, as a songwriter, you guys were able to write a song that felt patriotic but not cliche, not nationalist. And there's a difference. Right? I felt like. I don't know if it was on purpose, but I felt like you guys walked that line. Were you purposefully walking that line?
- [39:23]
Dan Wilson
Okay, that's funny that you should ask that, because it relates to something I said before, and I love that question. When we. Can I tell my version of how we wrote it?
- [39:33]
Bobby Bones
Yeah.
- [39:33]
Dan Wilson
It may not be Brett's or Dierks version exactly, but the way I remember it, we all got together. I was really excited. We had. I had insisted that there be a piano at the session. And apparently it was a kind of a pain in the butt to organize that. I didn't realize that you couldn't always just say, I need a piano at the session. But there was a piano at the session. And we all showed up, and we sort of were shooting the breeze before we started. And then Dirk's got a text or a call from his wife, who's was a cold morning, and her Prius wouldn't start. And so he hopped in his giant truck and drove away. He said, I'll just be 15 minutes. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I gotta get. I gotta jumpstart my wife's car. So he disappeared, and Brett and I were sitting there and we talked for a little while. And I was sitting at the piano while I was talking to him, and I turned to the piano, and I literally just was like, you know, what's this thing like? And I played one chord with two hands. And Brett was holding on to his guitar at the time, and he played that. The guitar riff from the song, like, instantly. Like, I was holding the note on the piano, and he just played the beginning of the song. And where did I. I said, where did that come from? I was like, that's amazing. I love that. That's incredible. And he goes, well, I guess it came out of that piano chord and out of this and he pointed to a cross that was on his guitar. And he pointed. He said, we came from there. And so Brett and I kind of played around with a shape for the verse. Instrumentally, Dirk's come back in 15 minutes and he goes, okay, so let's get started. And we said, well, we do have something. And we played him what we were doing and he was like, did you do this yesterday? When did you write this? And we said, no, we did this while you were off jump starting your wife's car. And he said, this is incredible. And I said, I have some thoughts about. Reminds me of. I don't know, it's almost like it feels like it's got to be a patriotic song. And maybe it even has to have the word America in it. And they both went, no, like, so. So that's me going to the cheesy excess. But it did. It is what it was about. It just didn't. It didn't need to say that word. And that was their opinion. And I totally agree. I'm really glad that we didn't do that. I'm glad we kept it more metaphorical. I think it's a beaut. I love it.
- [42:13]
Bobby Bones
Yeah. You wrote someone like you with Adele, Just you two.
- [42:18]
Dan Wilson
Yeah.
- [42:20]
Bobby Bones
To write. Did she sing the. I don't know, the demo, the worktape. Does she sing the work tape too? Yeah, because a lot of the times here, like my friends, if they're the artist, they won't sing the work tape because they don't really want the work tape of them singing that early version of it existing. So one of the writers that can also sing will sing the work tape in case it never come. So that way it can't like accidentally be put out.
- [42:42]
Dan Wilson
Wow.
- [42:42]
Bobby Bones
That's what I wondered about the Adele. Like, did she sing the Worktape? And was that even a thought where maybe we. You sing it. So if it does exist somewhere, it's not Adele singing a song that she never put out.
- [42:53]
Dan Wilson
When we wrote together, she wasn't. She. She had had some nice medium level success in America and she had played on SNL and it had gone really, really well, but she wasn't hounded by photographers and whatnot. You know, she didn't. Was living that life. So that wasn't really in. That wasn't really in the equation, you know, avoiding a leakable version of the song. However, we. We cut it in this small studio in. In la, which had a piano in it, a really nice piano. So I often wanted to do like writing sessions there because it was this beautiful Steinway there. And we wrote it there, she sang it there, I played the piano there. On the second day, we got it. We ironed out some pretty bad kinks that it had on the first day and we finished the song. And that's. There's no work tape of it. There's just that demo of us. And there's no other version? Well, there was. They tried recutting it a couple times with a full orchestra and band and it didn't. It wasn't cool. So they just contacted me at the last second and said, can you send the parts to the demo?
- [43:59]
Bobby Bones
Wow.
- [44:00]
Dan Wilson
We're going to mix it for the record.
- [44:01]
Bobby Bones
And that's what's. That's the record.
- [44:02]
Dan Wilson
That's what we hear. So really that was the first version of the song. That was the worktape because it was literally her and me hashing it out and me just being a perfectionist about her getting a real performance.
- [44:13]
Bobby Bones
Where do you keep your Grammys?
- [44:15]
Dan Wilson
There's a bookshelf in my living room that has three out of the four. And the fourth one's still in the mail, apparently.
- [44:23]
Bobby Bones
No way. You never got it?
- [44:24]
Dan Wilson
I haven't gotten it yet. It's always a long delayed thing.
- [44:28]
Bobby Bones
That's funny.
- [44:29]
Dan Wilson
It always takes a long time. Then you get it. You're like, what's this big square box that just arrived? You know, you don't. And it's often from some, like, I don't know where it's from. A publicity. Publicity firm or a law office or. I can't remember how they do it. But it's never like from the Grammys, you know, so you get, oh, what's in this? Maybe it's a piece of music gear that I forgot I bought.
- [44:48]
Bobby Bones
I'm always confused by that because I'll get a. If it's like an ACM or a CMA or whatever, it'll be like fragile. What do I order that's fragile? Like, why is there a fragile box on my porch? The fragile thing throws me off more than anything because I don't really order fragile things. And then I'm like. Because you're right, it takes like three. You don't get the award at the show.
- [45:03]
Dan Wilson
You get it when you've forgotten entirely about it. Yeah.
- [45:06]
Bobby Bones
Yeah.
- [45:06]
Dan Wilson
Well, my CMA this year showed up in many pieces.
- [45:10]
Bobby Bones
It was broken in the mail.
- [45:12]
Dan Wilson
It was busted.
- [45:13]
Bobby Bones
The fragile need to be bigger on that box.
- [45:15]
Dan Wilson
It was really fragile.
- [45:15]
Bobby Bones
Yeah. The new instrumental album, Goodnight Los Angeles comes out May 9th. You guys, on tour Toe the Wet Sprocket.
- [45:25]
Dan Wilson
Yes. This summer.
- [45:26]
Bobby Bones
That's super cool. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah, we saw them. Eddie and I saw Toe the Wet Sprocket a few years ago. Yeah, still got it.
- [45:33]
Dan Wilson
Oh, I love them. I love their songs. Glenn and I've been friends for a long time, and so I'm looking forward to that. And John and Jake and I, if we can just organize some. Some way or reason to play a bunch of shows every year, we always feel really lucky.
- [45:51]
Bobby Bones
We'll put all the tour stuff down in our notes here on the podcast. But, Dan, I'm a massive fan. I. It's super cool that you came by. I think I could go two hours, but I know you're riding today. You got a whole Nashville experience ahead of you, so I won't take up too much of your time, but thank you so much for giving me the last 40 minutes or so.
- [46:09]
Dan Wilson
Bobby. Thank you. This has really, really been fun.
- [46:11]
Bobby Bones
That's awesome. The Bobby cast. We'll be right back.
- [46:17]
Dan Wilson
Every morning brings a fresh, new energy. This is today.
- [46:21]
Bobby Bones
And no matter what the day holds.
- [46:23]
Dan Wilson
We come to the Today show for all of it. When things are tough, we talk about it. When there's something to figure out, we dig into it. And when there's joy, we celebrate it. Because today is where it's all happening.
- [46:36]
Bobby Bones
We get the best start to every.
- [46:38]
Dan Wilson
Morning because we start it together. Watch the Today show with Savannah Guthrie and Craig Melvin, weekdays at 7am on NBC.
- [46:46]
Bobby Bones
Thank you to the presenting sponsor of today's episode, American Express. Between my shows, 25 whistles. Lots to say. Too much access. It's a lot of traveling for work, and I get to attend a bunch of different sporting events. And while the travel can take a toll on me, sometimes, all the points I get makes it so much better. With the Amex Platinum, you earn five times membership rewards points on flights and prepaid hotels booked through amextravel.com on up to $500,000 in flight purchases per year. Plus you get access to the Centurion Lounge, making travel that much more enjoyable. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. For more information, visit www.americanexpress.com travel.
- [47:29]
Dan Wilson
Introducing Instagram Teen Accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they've got the right gear for writing.
- [47:36]
Bobby Bones
Knee pads. Check.
- [47:37]
Dan Wilson
And helmet. Done. See you, dad. New Instagram teen accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can.
- [47:52]
Bobby Bones
This is the Bobbycast, all right. With Dan. It's Pretty cool. As we mentioned in the intro, all the songs he wrote for other artists. What I wanted to do was take a second and talk about artists who wrote songs for other artists either early in their career before they blew up, or they did it as they were blowing up, or they did it like Dan after they already had their time as an artist. And so I have like 10 of these. I have Sia, she wrote Diamonds. Did you ever hear the Sia Mike? You ever see the podcast clips of them playing this where you hear Sia singing? I think Benny Blanco plays it from his computer. Oh, yeah. It's really cool when Sia sings it, but. So she wrote Diamonds for Rihanna, Titanium, which she's on David Guetta, but it wasn't supposed to have her name on it at all. And Sia is like reluctantly famous because she hit her face for a long time.
- [48:45]
Dan Wilson
Yeah.
- [48:45]
Bobby Bones
With a wig. Yeah. So Sia was a songwriter first. Ryan Tedder, who's the lead singer of One Republic, so was already an in demand songwriter, then has his artist vessel. They blow up. But songs that he wrote other than One Republic, songs he wrote. Halo, Halo, Beyonce, I can see you, hey, Low Halo. Rumor has it. Adele. Yep. And how do I sing this? I'm a sucker, I'm a sucker for you I'm a sucker for you yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Jonas Brothers. Yeah, yeah. So he did that Chris Stapleton, which we knew Chris a bit before he blew up as an artist. We had him on our show before he ever had a hit. He wasn't always a massive artist. Now he was always trying to the artist thing in different forms. But you know, he wrote Drink Beer with Luke Bryan. He wrote this song with Thomas Rhett that's like, ooh, ah. You know that, that. Yeah, I don't even know what that one was. Yeah, it kind of sounds like that's the sound of the Chain Gain song, but it was a Thomas Rhett song. Yeah, I think he might have had some trouble with it. Oh, really? Yeah, I think so. Thomas Rhett written a bunch of songs and with Thomas Redd, I feel like he's always been a front facing artist, but they write so many songs and Thomas writes so many songs that he'll come in and talk about how he's written a song and he's writing it for himself, but the timing isn't right. Meaning there's no album in sight. Like they just had made an album, put out an album and he's like, this song is so good. So I'm Just going to go ahead and give it away, I think like Stars like Confetti, right? For Dustin Lynch. Yeah. Like he liked that song, but he said the timing was so wrong and that he was gonna have to hold it for like a year and a half. So Dustin lynch got it. That's a Stars like Confetti. What's the noise? It does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He did. Round Here. Florida Georgia line 1994. Jason Aldean. Thomas Rhett has a bunch. I was watching a whole TikTok series on Julia Michaels. I say serious, I've watched so much Benny Blanco content and he talks about Julia Michaels because they wrote a bunch together. And so I'll do this first. Julia Michaels, before she was a singer, she did Justin Bieber. Sorry, I have too many songs in my head right now at this point. Sing that one. Is it too late now to say sorry? Yeah. And good for you for Selena Gomez. But when they wrote I Got Issues, the label, according to Benny Blanco, wanted to give that to like a big artist. And Julian Michaels, according to his story calls and like, hey, I want that song for myself because I think I want to be an artist. And he was like, awesome. And so that's really what launched her as an artist. That song was so good because I Got Issues. Ed Sheeran he this. Oh man, I got like three Benny Blancos in a row. The story was that they were in the back of the bus and I think they were going to go through customs or something in the bus in a few hours. So I was like, we can go to sleep now and just wake up in a few hours or we can just stay up and write a song. And so they just stayed up and wrote a song and they wrote that Love yourself and Ed Sheeran's got like the work tape and he's playing it on the computer. The tone of like Bieber and Sheeran are similar. Ish to where it doesn't sound like Bieber did a whole other version of it. But yeah, they just kind of wrote that because they didn't want to fall asleep. Yeah. And I think he said he was going through a breakup. He's like, I don't want to write a song about a breakup. He's like, no, we should write a song about you not wanting to write a song about a breakup. You should go and love. The whole Selena Gomez relationship has really taken me to love Benny Blanco. Not even their dating, but it's put him more again him more front facing because he's a producer, but he's like, the most likable guy. I mean, even the connection with that song because Bieber ended up cutting it about Selena Gomez and then he ends up with Selena Gomez. Oh, I didn't think about that layer of it. Yeah, I knew that is weird. That's got to be weird for all of them because I saw where, like, Bieber and Selina unfollowed. Or she unfollowed Benny, I guess, was the big story. Bruno Mars, before just the way you are, he wrote, and now you drive around town with a girl I love and I'm like, nit you for ceelo, which is fun. Casey Musgraves, she co wrote Mama's broken Heart for Miranda Lambert. Lizzo was a session artist because Lizzo plays the flute, which is very interesting because nobody plays the flute in the pop world. But Lizzo worked as a songwriter and a session artist in Minneapolis before she broke through as a solo artist. But she wrote for some of Prince's proteges and doesn't have from me looking it up. Doesn't have any massive hits that she wrote, but was like, oddly behind the scenes. Very relevant because, again, she was a session flute player and background singer. I almost played the flute in band. What kept you from doing it? I couldn't bring myself to play the flute. I was like, I can't see myself going. What led you to want to do the flute? Because you were on guitar. You were in a punk band. Yeah, but I wanted to audition for band in sixth grade. So they did this thing where they brought all these teachers with all these instruments and said, pick an instrument. And I wanted to be percussion, but everybody wanted to do percussion because I wanted to be a drummer. And they're like, too many spots. Nobody's. They're all filled. So then they wanted me to play flute, and I was like, I can't do that. So I settled on clarinet. Oh, they wanted you to play flute? Yeah. They were like, it's totally open right now. We have a lot of slots over here. You should go to flute. And I was like, no, no, no, I'll do clarinet. I didn't know you played clarinet. Yeah, I was first chair. Man, if one was put in your hands now, I think I could figure it out. I played probably two to three years of clarinet, so I think I can still remember it. Did you enjoy playing clarinet? I loved it at the time. But then, like you said, I wanted to be in a punk band. So I was like, ah, I got it. I just got play guitar now, man. It would be so punk to play clarinet in a punk band because it would be so. Not punk. That would be so punk. It would cut through so much in a punk song. Clarinet solo. How did you get a clarinet? Because one of the reasons I didn't do music was I couldn't afford an instrument because they were expensive. Yeah. You could rent it. Is that what you guys did? Yeah, I think we could rent it for like 20 bucks a month or something like that. So, yeah. Rented a clarinet. Yeah. I was secretly jealous of the band kids because I really wanted to do music, but I couldn't. I don't. There may have been rental options, but I couldn't afford the instrument in my mind, so I never even tried. So then I was like, nah, band sucks. But really secretly, like in my heart, I was a little jealous that these kids got to play band. I think the coolest part was like learning how to read music. That's how I did it. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.
- [55:40]
Dan Wilson
Every morning brings a fresh, new energy. This is today.
- [55:45]
Bobby Bones
And no matter what the day holds.
- [55:47]
Dan Wilson
We come to the Today show for all of it. When things are tough, we talk about it. When there's something to figure out, we dig into it. And when there's joy, we celebrate it. Because today is where it's all happening. We get the best start to everybody morning because we started together. Watch the Today show with Savannah Guthrie and Craig Melvin, weekdays at 7am on NBC.
- [56:10]
Bobby Bones
Thank you to the presenting sponsor of today's episode, American Express. Between my shows, 25 whistles. Lots to say, too much access. It's a lot of traveling for work and I get to attend a bunch of different sporting events. And while the travel can take a toll on me, sometimes all the points I get makes it so much better. With the Amex Platinum, you earn five times membership rewards points on flights and prepaid hotels booked through amextravel.com on up to $500,000 in flight purchases per year. Plus you get access to the Centurion Lounge, making travel that much more enjoyable. That's the powerful backing of American Express terms. Apply for more information www.americanexpress.com travel. Introducing Instagram Teen accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow.
- [57:00]
Dan Wilson
Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on. Alright, sweetie pie, buckle up.
- [57:04]
Bobby Bones
Good job.
- [57:05]
Dan Wilson
Or ring the bell on their bike.
- [57:07]
Bobby Bones
Okay, kid, give it a try. Nice.
- [57:10]
Dan Wilson
Or remember their elbow pads.
- [57:13]
Bobby Bones
Knees too. Okay. Yep. There you go. New Instagram teen accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see. And we're back, back on the Bobby cast. Neo started out behind the scenes. He wrote Irreplaceable for Beyonce and then he became a star. He's from Arkansas, do you know that? I think I've looked that up before. Like famous people from Arkansas. He doesn't like rep it hard or anything. That's why I was like, is this true or not? Meghan Trainor and she has written even country songs. She's written songs for Rascal Flats. She's written for Sabrina Carpenter, I think in her earlier days. Did you see. I was watching a bunch of the fortnight stuff with the new Sabrina Carpenter skin. Yeah. And how they'll come together.
- [58:09]
Dan Wilson
Yeah.
- [58:09]
Bobby Bones
And turn into a band. Yeah. I just saw them doing pretty suggestive things with them two coming together. Oh, that's funny. I saw like six of them and they're fighting other people in other skins and they didn't know each other, but then they all just decided to team up and all of a sudden there's six of them fighting everybody else. And then once there was nobody else around, it allowed them to have instru and they start playing espresso with full instruments, drums, singer, the whole thing. That's. That's funny. You're playing Fortnite. Yeah, for about a year. Yeah. I'm just not much of a shoot em up. Like it was fun but it was so kid intensive. Mm. Where I can play, I have like three friends and we play Madden. I only need three friends total and I can play a lot of that by myself. With Fortnite, if I'm playing by myself, there are also like other kids I'm playing against and it was just too much. And so it also wasn't that good because I didn't care that much about it. Where I just, I love sports. So I like dialed in to make Arkansas win the championship. But yeah, I had about a year of Fortnite Charlie Puth and he still writes a lot but he co wrote slow motion portray songs even back when he was doing YouTube. Charlie Puth to me I think of for just having perfect pitch. Because he'll pitch on TikTok. Yeah. Because he can identify pitch but he can also make pitch, which is really interesting. I was watching the yacht rock documentary on Max and what I did know about yacht rock, well, there was a lot. But I didn't know that that term didn't exist when yacht rock was actually happening. Yacht rock is actually a term that was made up by people on the Internet way later referring to that music of, like, soulful, mostly white people with beards that played guitars. And so yacht rock was the thing they did in, like, the early 2000s and identified it all way later. And so Kenny Loggins was like, the king of yacht rock. And Kenny Loggins is footloose. But he wrote what a Fool Believes for the Doobie Brothers, a song that won Grammy for Song of the Year. And this is that song here. Nothing says yacht rock like this song here. Because the Doobie Brothers has, like, to me, and I wasn't alive when they were massive. But they have, like, two versions. They have the hippie version, which we talked about, which is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, China Grove. Or I want to hear some funky Dixie Land. Pretty mama gonna take me by then. Like that, which is. Oh, black water, keep on rule Mississippi moon, won't you keep on shining on me. And then they have this, which is. Feels like yacht rock central. The documentary is pretty good. Not my favorite. Have you watched any of those Bill Simmons? I think they're called Music box documentaries. I think I've seen. Maybe. Was one of the Woodstock ones part of it? Yes. Then. Yes, the Woodstock. Awesome. And people would get there and look at the lineup, and they look at it now, and they were like, golly. Like, it's so testosterone filled. Yeah. It ends up being just an S show because Limp Bizkit and Chili, everybody's, like, urging the crowd to go crazy. So they do, and they burn everything down and. But also just the full lineup. Like, that. Enough of that music over that amount of time probably just gets all the testosterone. Like, Alanis was like, this is so weird. Like, Joel, I think, played it. I think. Yeah, she had a terrible experience, and she was like, this is not for me. There's another one that I watched. Okay, this is what it was. Jewel did that. But I watched the Alanis one that he made. It was awesome. Yeah, that was really good. Like, I forgot just how transcendent she was as an artist because she's been around for so long now. But that Jagged Little Pill album, that thing had, like, five singles on it, which was unheard of back then because it took a song forever to make it to number one on, like, top 40 radio. But the Atlantis one was really good. It made me want to go see her. I think she's doing a residency in Vegas, and that one made me want to go see Alanis. I think it was in that documentary where she said she didn't get recognized too much after her first music video because her Hair was in her face the whole time. Oh, yeah. Because you ought to know. It's like. Yeah. That it's, like, from far back and her hair's in her face. That's crazy, because I want you to know that I. And that was an alternative song. Now it feels like that's. That's, like, soft pop or, like, mainstream for then. But that thing, I believe, launched on, like, the alternative station in Los Angeles. I just hear that as a pop song. Yeah, it was. It was very, very. And part of it is, would she go down on you in a theater? And that was in the song until they took it out. Yeah. Atlantis was. Was awesome. But, like, we're talking about with Dan, a lot of these artists. Tyler Hubbard's a guy, too, who wrote a bunch of songs and is a songwriter, aside from doing his solo work with Florida Georgia Line and even Tyler Hubbard now, and he has a bunch of songs. But I just want to take a minute and talk about other artists who were songwriters either before, during, or after their artist careers, which I didn't know. The story that Dan told. I didn't know that that kid got sick, and that's why they kind of stopped, like, touring. Did you know that? I didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't either, but I thought it was awesome. And thank you guys for listening, and thanks for hanging out with the Bobbycast. If you don't mind, share this with a friend. If they love music, like, for the most part, this is just a music podcast, and it was super cool to have Dan on, so I feel like I'm a bigger Semisonic fan than I was. I didn't know the guy was, like, a Harvard, like, music genius. Like, that's pretty cool because I feel like they just see it different. Like, I'll never. I don't think I would ever talk music and be able to understand what he's actually seeing in his head as he's talking about it. Like, that level. Like, if you talk with, like, a really good comedian or somebody in art, you just can't see what they're seeing. And I feel like I would never be able to understand what he was actually saying on a scholar level. Yeah. Like, so I appreciate him dumbing it down for us today. Yeah. Thank you, guys for listening. You follow the Bobbycast on social media. That would be awesome. And we will see you guys next week. All right, bye, everybody. Thanks for listening to a Bobbycast production. You don't want Vacation to end, but.
- [64:24]
Dan Wilson
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- [64:41]
Bobby Bones
Next time we should go to Thailand.
- [64:43]
Dan Wilson
That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn more@americanexpress.com withamex behind every successful business is a vision.
- [64:53]
Bobby Bones
Bringing it to life takes more than effort. It takes the right financial foundation and support. That's where Chase for Business comes in. With convenient digital tools, helpful resources and personalized guidance, we can help your business forge ahead confidently. Learn more@chase.com business chase for business Make More of what's yours the Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply JP Morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 JPMorgan Chase & Co. Hey, Jenice Torres here and I'm Austin Hankowitz. We're the hosts of Mind the Business Small Business Success Stories produced by Ruby.
- [65:28]
Dan Wilson
Studio and Intuit QuickBooks.
- [65:30]
Bobby Bones
Catch up on seasons one and two and join us for a brand new season of the podcast as we talk.
- [65:35]
Dan Wilson
To small business owners about how they.
- [65:37]
Bobby Bones
Manage and grow their businesses with the.
- [65:39]
Dan Wilson
Help of platforms like Intuit QuickBooks.
- [65:42]
Bobby Bones
Listen to mind the Business Small Business Success Stories on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.