BOBBYCAST - Haley Sacks on Good Debt, Building Wealth & Why Getting Rich Should Be Boring

Summary

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The BobbyCast: Haley Sacks (Mrs. Dow Jones) on Good Debt, Wealth-Building & Why Getting Rich Should be Boring

Podcast: The Bobby Bones Show (BOBBYCAST)
Episode: Haley Sacks on Good Debt, Building Wealth & Why Getting Rich Should Be Boring
Date: June 23, 2026
Host: Bobby Bones
Guest: Haley Sacks (Mrs. Dow Jones) – Financial Expert, Content Creator, Host of the Financial T Podcast, NYT Bestselling Author

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Episode Overview

This episode welcomes Haley Sacks, known online as Mrs. Dow Jones, a finance educator and content creator whose blend of pop culture, sharp financial advice, and humor has made investing, debt management, and financial literacy accessible and appealing for millennials and Gen Z. With her fresh take on wealth-building and her new book Future Rich Person, Sacks talks with Bobby Bones about modern money mindsets, the truth about debt, the dangers and pitfalls of frictionless spending, and why the best path to wealth is surprisingly unsexy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Making Finance Relatable and Aspirational

• [02:23] Haley Sacks: "I love pop culture. I love the Kardashians. I love Beyonce. Like I want to be these women...But what if there was a woman...who made it feel aspirational to grow wealth and to be good with money? ...So I became her."
• Sacks intentionally positions herself as a relatable finance personality, aiming to fill the void of an aspirational, female financial role model.

Money Mindsets: From Scarcity to Abundance

• [04:33] Bobby Bones: Describes growing up “extremely poor...food stamps, welfare,” and how his relationship with money was shaped by scarcity—oscillating between hoarding or giving it away.
• [06:19] Bobby Bones: "Oh, yeah, yeah. I had a relationship with the money that was, this is never going to last."
• [06:57] Haley Sacks: Emphasizes the importance of a "money aha moment," whether self-inspired or via trusted guidance, that allows individuals to break unhealthy cycles.

Modernizing Financial Advice

• [05:14] Haley Sacks: "I wanted to modernize financial advice...my audience is millennials and Gen Z...we've inherited a very different world than the financial advice is tailored to."
• Highlights stagnating wages (+7% since 2000) vs. cost of living (+67%), exploding student loans, and workplace insecurity due to AI.

The Importance of Making More (Not Just Spending Less)

• [10:48] Haley Sacks: "There is a floor to how much we can cut, but no ceiling to how much we can make. Cutting avocado toast or a latte isn’t going to move the bottom line as much as making $40k, $50k more a year."
• Advocates for proactive negotiation, maintaining a wins folder, documenting value, and focusing on income growth, especially for women.

Navigating Pay Disparities and Negotiation

• [09:49] Haley Sacks: Discusses common DMs: discovering pay inequities, hiding money from spouses, handling inheritances.
• Encourages data-driven, business-value-based negotiations rather than confrontation: “Present data, then ask for more.” [11:55]

The Destructive Convenience of Frictionless Spending

• [12:28] Haley Sacks: "We're in this age of frictionless finance...we buy whatever they're wearing to have that feeling and that impulse buy is all out of emotion."
• [13:43] Suggests creating “friction” in spending: remove Apple Pay, unsubscribe from shopping newsletters, unfollow tempting influencers, return impulse buys—"I’m the queen of unfollowing. And honestly, I’m the queen of returning."

Breaking Down the "7% Rule" — Good Debt vs. Bad Debt

• [23:29] Introduction of the 7% rule: If your debt’s interest rate is below 7% (typical long-term stock market returns), you may be better off investing extra cash rather than paying off the debt aggressively.
• [24:04] Haley Sacks: "Rich people use [the 7% rule] to actually leverage debt to make more money...You see celebrities have mortgages...Jay-Z and Beyonce have a mortgage."
• [25:44] "If you have low interest rate debt, you can do this too." (Key insight: you do not need to be wealthy to use it.)

Notable Moment:

• [26:08] Sacks: Asserts that financial decisions also need to account for what makes you “feel safe.” Maximizing money isn't always the best for everyone: “There’s also a you way to do things.”

Emergency Funds: A Tool for Personal Freedom, Especially for Women

• [38:24] Haley Sacks shares a story from her book about a friend escaping an abusive relationship thanks to a carefully built emergency fund—“it gave her the power to say no.”
• [39:38] “It took her over a year to rebuild it, but it was like that gave her the power to say no."

Investing: Simple and Boring is the Way to Win

• [40:16] Sacks recommends starting with low-cost index funds ("baskets of 500 biggest companies" like S&P 500), automating investments, and ignoring FOMO about individual stocks or day trading.
• [42:21] "With a stock portfolio...take 5–10% to experiment (crypto, hot tips), but keep 90% in boring index funds."

Notable Quotes:

• [42:50] Sacks: "You want your life to be exciting, you want your relationships to be exciting...But getting rich should be boring."

Investing in Human Capital

• [44:03–47:13] Sacks and Bones discuss the value of “investing in human capital”—yourself and the people around you, such as friends, trainers, therapists, or learning marketable skills.
• [47:13] Sacks: "You are your best investment always." Learning new skills (like AI), working with good people, and self-care are areas to prioritize.

Pop Culture in Financial Literacy

• [48:06–49:32] Viral content: Sacks describes a viral video explaining Roth IRAs for kids using Blue Ivy’s (Beyoncé's daughter) dance tour earnings as an example—“Spinach in the brownie.”
• [49:33] “That was insane. That was like 300,000 followers. Like pushed me really quickly to a million. That video got, like, 13 million views.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Haley Sacks: "Assets, not liabilities." [05:06]
• Bobby Bones (on financial advice): "I think your book is the newer, more connected, current version of [Rich Dad, Poor Dad] for people." [05:08]
• Haley Sacks: "You get a raise if you are doing more work and adding value." [11:57]
• Sacks on shopping temptation: "It's basically impossible not to buy things, you know, because we're so marketed to." [14:23]
• On negotiating book deals: "I played everyone against each other, which is always good to me." [31:57]
• On investing: "You're gambling and investing are not the same thing." [42:50]
• On AI: "The people who win with AI are gonna be the ones who know how to use it. So instead of being scared of AI, learn how to use it." [47:13]
• On content creation: "I'm not an overnight success...I have been grinding for, like, nine years." [48:06]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:23 – Sacks describes her inspiration for making finance fun and aspirational.
• 04:33 – Bobby’s background and money mindset.
• 05:14 – Sacks on updating finance advice for millennials and Gen Z.
• 10:48 – The futility of “cutting lattes” vs. focusing on earning more.
• 12:28 – The perils of frictionless, emotion-driven online spending.
• 23:29 – The “7% Rule” explained: when debt is good.
• 38:24 – Emergency funds as an empowerment tool, especially in abusive relationships.
• 40:16 – How (and why) to start investing with low-cost index funds.
• 42:50 – Why "getting rich should be boring."
• 44:03 – Investing in yourself and your network (“human capital”) as core wealth-building.
• 48:06 – How Sacks used pop culture (Blue Ivy/Beyoncé) to make finance viral and relatable.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Update Your Money Mindset: Old-school advice doesn't fit new economic realities. Embrace proactive learning, question your default behaviors, and seek modern guidance.
• Invest Simply: Don’t chase trends—build wealth with steady, boring index funds, automate your investments, and limit “fun money” to a small portfolio share.
• Leverage Smart Debt: Not all debt is bad; understand when borrowing can build wealth (the "7% Rule").
• Document Your Wins: Keep track of work successes to negotiate raises with confidence and data.
• Invest in Yourself: Prioritize learning high-value skills and cultivating relationships; your human capital pays the best dividends.
• Guard Against Frictionless Spending: Create conscious barriers to impulse buys; unfollow, unsubscribe, and make returning purchases your default.
• Emergency Funds Are Power: Having savings is more than “rainy day money”—it buys you choices and freedom.

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Final Thoughts

Haley Sacks (“Mrs. Dow Jones”) delivers financial wisdom anchored in humor, pop culture relevance, and a deep empathy for those struggling to break out of outdated money habits—especially women and younger generations. Her key message: Wealth-building isn’t thrilling, but it's very achievable, and the boring path is usually the winning one. Whether you’re negotiating a raise, managing debt, or buying your first index fund, Sacks’ practical outlook empowers listeners to take smart, sustainable action on their financial futures.

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Recommended:
Haley Sacks’ book, Future Rich Person, for a modern, actionable take on building wealth—especially if Rich Dad, Poor Dad was your financial awakening, but you're ready for something new.

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Transcript

[Podcast Host]

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[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 1]

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[Reese Witherspoon (Narrator)]

Picture this me Reese Witherspoon in London ordering fish and chips so often they might start wrapping me in paper. I'm traveling with my Wells Fargo Autograph Journey card. So I'm I earn rewards wherever. I book travel five times points with hotels four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel and one point on other purchases. Imagine getting rewarded for eating a toad in the hole. Wait, what is a toad in a hole?

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[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I love pop culture. I love the Kardashians. I love Beyonce. Like I want to be these women, right? But what if there was a woman that I watched, wanted to be, who made it feel aspirational to grow wealth and like to be good with money? And so I couldn't see her, so I became her.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

My guest Today is the one and only Haley Sacks, better known as Ms. Dale Jones. Financial expert, host of the Financial T podcast, and now a New York Times best selling author. Her book, Future Rich Person, people love her. Her content is so good. She has built a massive following by making money feel funny and relatable and actually understandable for millennials and Gen Z. And we talk investing. And she's got pop culture, she's got comedy, she's got brutally honest financial advice. We don't do a lot of finance on this show. This is great. I really loved this. And let's get to it now. Here she is, Haley Saks. Can I tell you an investment that I have?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, tell me all of them.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

No, not all, besides your shoes, which

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I'm going to mug you for.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Thank you. I'm in New York. It'd feel perfect. Feel right. Waterloo.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Oh, great. I like Waterloo.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

As soon as they started. As soon as they.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

That's a good. You're gonna have a good exit from that.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I am from.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 2]

Oh.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I lived in Austin for 13 years.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Okay. I hear it.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

It's in Austin. Well, I'm from Arkansas, so that's probably what you hear.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

So when I was moving from Austin, I had such great relationships. That is an Austin company said, hey, we're starting a water company and do you want to get in? And I think they had an alcohol company, like. And I said, yeah, sure. And I was just starting to make money.

[Wells Fargo Advertiser]

Yes.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And I said, sure. And I put in some money and the company's doing awesome.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

No, it's everywhere. It's really everywhere.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah, I'm pretty excited about that one.

[Wells Fargo Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I hope you got a big exit because I feel like all the big brands like a Pepsi or Coca Cola, like, they want to acquire all those companies.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah, that's. That's what I hope. So that's one. I jumped into a restaurant.

[Redfin Advertiser]

That's.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

We have to talk about that, so. Correct, correct. I.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

So you did all, like fun investments is what I'm hearing so far.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

That's the only ones that I talk about because the other ones. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. You're the expert. By the way, congratulations on the book.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Thank you.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

So as you can. As you guys can see, she didn't even ask for this to be put on the table. For the record, there was no demand of her putting this on the table. This is called future rich person. So I grew up extremely poor, like food stamps, welfare, grandma, all this.

[Redfin Advertiser]

Right.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

So I didn't know money. And it was A book for me that helped when I started to make money. And I think your book does the same thing. Current Time for people. The book that I read when I was just starting to make money was Rich Dad, Poor Dad. I was like, oh, okay.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Assets not liabilities.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I think your book is the newer, more connected, current version of that for People.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

That's so nice.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And I hope that's a compliment to you because.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Huge compliment. And that's like, what I wanted to do was, well, with first, I wanted to modernize the financial advice because, I mean, Richard Poor Dot obviously has like, amazing pillars in it that are true even in current day, like buying assets instead of liabilities.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Old school, though.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, it's very old school. And the world has changed so much. And especially, like, my audience is millennials and Gen Z and we're living in this world of, you know, wages have increased 7% since 2000, but the cost of living has increased 67%. And student loan debt is crazy. And like, we feel like AI is taking all the jobs and just like all of the living in a. We've inherited a very different world than the financial advice is tailored to. And so we need a modern book. That's why I wrote the New Rules of Building Wealth. But I want to go back to what you said about how you grew up, because I talk about it in the book that the data shows that by the time you're seven years old, your relationship with money is set. So I'm interested in how you sort of worked through your money mindset. Having grown up with such scarcity now, do you still feel that way?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I had a relationship with the money that was, this is never going to last. And I had two ways to handle the money. Either save it all and never spend a dollar or give it all away. And that was the only two things I would do because having none, I wanted to make sure that I had some to pay bills next month, even when I made a lot of money. But also at the same time, it was, well, I didn't have a whole lot, so I want to give it all away. So I was constantly balancing between the two. And so that was my relationship. Never had it. Gonna make sure I have it. You know what? I don't need it. I want to give it all away. And that, that was pretty much the cycle I lived in.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

And then how did you break out of that?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I got a business manager and she shook me.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, you need always like, you have like that money. Aha moment. I talk about that in the book. And it's either like, can come from yourself or like, you know, you're lucky enough to have someone in your life who shakes you. Or it could be even just reading a book and it wakes you up, but something that makes you realize, like, oh, this is real. Like, I have to actually learn how to do this.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I started to make money and I had to pay a bunch of percentages out to people, which I was not used to. I was paying like.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

People in my band. I was paying different taxes in all these different states. If I was doing stand up, I was paying and I was like, I can't do this. I don't know what's going on. So I had to hire somebody. But that's. It was wild to hire somebody to take care of my money.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Because that was my money.

[Wells Fargo Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

That as a poor person, that was the weirdest thing I've ever had to do was pay somebody to take care of my money.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

And you saw the same business for 15 years.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

She's like the closest person to me other than my wife.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yes.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah, it's her.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

As it should be.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And I call her sometimes and I'm like, we good? Just to be like, but tell me if this is healthy. I log in because I have like a portal into all the. All my accounts. I log in and probably look at it like seven times a day.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I mean, I don't know if that's probably not healthy, but like. But I think that, like, it's whatever works for, like. I would rather you keep a really close eye on things versus no eye at all. Because what I see most is that people just manage their finances sort of on vibes, and they never actually know what's going on because they don't want to know. And so they just sort of live with a blanket over their head.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I think my situation is so different because I went from nothing to a lot and I didn't have a lot of middle time.

[Wells Fargo Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And so I don't think that my.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

When you were little, did you always think that, like, was that, like, in your head how it's gonna happen?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

In my head my whole life, I thought I was gonna be extremely rich because I was going to be extremely famous.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

There you go.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Like, I always wanted you manifested it,

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

but you have to have that sicko belief in order to make it happen. Like, it's not. I'm not surprised at all to hear you say that.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I always y. I guess I didn't know, but I knew.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

No, that's how I am, too. Like, I was like, oh, I know what I'm gonna do. Like, I knew the feeling that I wanted from work.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

It wasn't ever about money. Like, I made money, not chasing money, because I was fine without money.

[Wells Fargo Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

You chase your passion.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yep. And so with. If you go into your DMs, what normal question do people ask the most? Like, because, again, I'm not. It's not normal for me on either side of it. So what do people mostly hit you up about in just DMs?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Oh, my God. Well, I get really the craziest DMs, to be honest, because I run a segment called Financial Secrets, so I get everyone's financial secrets about, like, a lot of people hiding money from their spouses. A lot about inheritance. Like, wondering what to do. Like, if you get a bunch of money, A lot about finding out someone at their company who has the same job as them is not. Is making more than them.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Talk about that.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah. Which is crazy. So, I mean, legally, there's nothing that says that if you work at a company and me and you have the same role, they have to pay us the same amount, you know, but I might make more money because I'm just more. I'm better negotiator. And so. But when you find that out, I think it's really hard because you don't really know what to do with information. But for. I think you need to reframe that and sort of realize that it means that, like, you can get more money. It doesn't mean that you should get more money by saying, hey, you know, Sheila is making more. But, like, when you negotiate, you should say, oh, well, I've looked at, you know, statistics of this position in other companies, and you know, what the going rate is, and I am underpaid. Like, can we have this discussion?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I have found that when people are coming to me to ask for more money, just the best communication method is, hey, what can I do to make this level of money?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

No, that's so true. I talk about that in the book because I have a whole. I'm like, very much a financial expert who is about making more. Like, I believe that there is a floor to how much we can cut, but no ceiling to how much we can make. And that for. Especially for women, we encourage so much scarcity instead of teaching women how to actually just make more, which is going to create such. Like, you cutting avocado toaster. A latte isn't going to move the bottom line as much as, like, making you know, 40, $50,000 more a year, like apples and oranges. And so, yeah, I think that it's really important for you to focus on actually making more. And in the book, there's a whole chapter called Secure the Damn Bag, which is about how to make more money. And a pillar of it is just being good at your job. Like, literally try, like, because when you go in and negotiate, I talk about this in the book that you have to have a Wins folder. So in your Wins folder, put in all the things that you've done right and why you are more valuable than I think and why I would be upset to lose you and all the great work that you've done and then ask for more.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

So present data, then ask for more.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, you have to present data. Like, you don't just deserve a raise because you've been there for a certain amount of time, you know, you deserve. You get a. You get a raise if you are doing more work and adding value to the business, you know, and because I want to keep you.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah, it's really hard to replace people too.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

So expensive. And to find someone new, like, I find high. I don't know what your experience has been with hiring, but for me it's been really difficult. And so it's like, if I find someone good, like, that's someone that, like, I want to cultivate and keep.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Where do you feel like people waste their most money?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I think, well, we're in this age of frictionless finance. So, like, everyone is sort of using Apple Pay, like Apple Be Pay in, and we're just like on Instagram, seeing this influencer wear this new outfit or whatever, and we want to be like them. It seems like their life is so much better than ours, which is like, they're getting paid to show you that life that you aspire to so you will buy it. And so we buy whatever they're wearing to have that feeling and that impulse buy is like, all out of emotion. And that's really where I think that people's finances deteriorate.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Social media has really mastered the dopamine hit, though.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Totally in the per.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah, because I mean, I know what is happening to me and I still enjoy it 100%. Like, I double click that Apple Pay. And I like, I know it's the dopamine here that's going to. And I don't even really want this fresh poster, but I want to hit it anyway.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 1]

Boom, boom.

[Wells Fargo Advertiser]

Oh.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And then it arrives and I'm like, you're like, whatever am I going to Put this.

[Wells Fargo Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Apple Card Advertiser]

And you.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

And it's just, like, so annoying to send it back because it was, like, $30, and you're like, well, the shipping back is $16, so should I do it? And then you're stuck with junk, and it's in your garage, and it's like, it actually deteriorates your mental health more than it improves it. So I would say the frictionless spending. And that's why I always encourage more friction in your finances. Like, I'm like, remove Apple pay unsubscribe from newsletters.

[Apple Card Advertiser]

Unfall.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I'm the queen of unfollowing. And honestly, I'm the queen of returning. Because even though I'm a financial expert in all these things and, like, wrote this book, whatever, it still happens to me. And I think that's really important to say. And I say that in the book a lot, is like, look, I'm not perfect. Like, it's like, there's. We're in a. The world is set up for us to be so targeted. Like, you go on a website, and there's all these, like, cookies in the website that then are gonna follow you around the Internet trying to get you to buy that thing that you saw. You know what I mean? Like, we're literally. It's like, basically impossible not to buy things, you know, because we're so marketed

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

to what I did. And you said that. And it's. What I continue to try to do is take the extra three seconds, and when you hit me with Accept all cookies, I do the go in one more level and put no, do no. Because when I accept all cookies, man, they throw cookies at me. Like, and those cookies are so good.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

They're so good. They're chocolate chip.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And I buy. Yeah, whatever. I'm buying stuff like crazy because they know exactly what I want.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Exactly. And I, like, get annoyed, too, when I see it. Like, I'm like, oh, they're showing me that dress again and again and again.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

It's so easy to hit Accept all cookies, though, because you just want to see the website.

[Pets Best Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

But if you just do the go, it's like, whatever it is. Edit, setting. Literally, it's one button, and then it's no, and then it doesn't see everything that you're doing.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

There you go.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And so I do that. That's such a good tip to keep myself from buying as much crap, because

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

it's really just crap, too. And that hurts your mental health. Like, it's. Yes. It's about the fight. Like, the financial impact of it. But it's also like, you're right, like, it's like then you have that poster that you didn't even really care for and you're just like, cool. What do I do?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah, I got, yeah, got this baseball glove.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, exactly.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

What am I gonna do with this?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Did you ever have a, like a bottom, like a low where you're like, oh no, I gotta fix what I'm doing financially?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Well, so I started as a comedian and so my first job out of college was for David Letterman. And then I got a job working for Lorne Michaels at his digital production company called Above Average. And it was like a coup of a job because you know, in comedy it's like you're, you're out there for yourself. Like there's no like easy street, there's no like corporate track to lift yourself up if you really have to do it just day by day, brick by brick, you know, on your own. And so this felt like a cheat to that because it was like, great. I'm going to be in the, you know, SNL ecosystem and I have a full time job and we're going to like be put in front of all these agents and managers and whatever, they're going to platform us and this is sick. And then so I like meant a lot to me to have it, but I never had a full time job because I'd been doing like comedy up until that point, which is all 1099 work. Or I had been having these part time jobs on top of it to like keep myself float like I was a nanny, I worked at a pilates studio, like just whatever. I was making videos on the side for companies, like just piecing it together as we all do in our early 20s. And so then the first day of that job where I really wanted them to like me and like for it to go really well, they asked me about like health insurance and 401ks and I was expected to know how to read a paycheck and all these things. And I had no idea. And I was so embarrassed. Like, truly I was humiliated. And so I sort of just like nodded, pretended like I didn't think a 401k was a road race and went home and tried to learn. And then what I found was the information for women was so much about scarcity and deprivation, like literally about like rewashing your paper towels or like never buying a pre cut vegetable, like, or of course no avocado toast, no lattes, like just so much about depriving yourself and that being like, being good with money as a woman, like, whatever. That's not true at all. Nothing about building wealth or, you know, negotiating or making money or anything like that. And then the information from that was more like male centered was just about these guys who look like they'd really never been through puberty and they were so boring and it was like so jargon heavy and just didn't relate to me. And so what I realized is like, okay, I live in this world where everything feels really like fun and aspirational. Like, I love pop culture, I love the Kardashians, I love Beyonce. Like, I want to be these women, right? But what if there was a woman that I wanted to be who made it feel aspirational to grow wealth and like to be good with money and actually like, you know, max out your Roth IRA or, you know, like negotiate your salary or say no to a bachelorette trip or, you know, do any of these things that are sort of pillars to a financial life. And so I couldn't see her, so I became her.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.

[Cindy Crawford]

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[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 1]

From the show last night to this drive, why is it never chill?

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 2]

Because this is our life backstage on the road. It's loud, messy, real.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 3]

And that's the best part. Whole crew, no plan, just moving.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 1]

Good thing. Nissan builds for that kind of chaos.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 2]

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[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 3]

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[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 1]

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[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 2]

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[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And we're back on the Bobby cast. And so that's when you realized you wanted to learn more and educate yourself. Did you dive in?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Well, that was like I was so, I was like, okay, that's how I'm going to learn. That's what's going to interest me. And then really what I did. And you have the same story as me where it's like financial books are really the key to like starting that financial journey. Like, that's why I was so excited to write a money book too. Because to me, like that is what propelled everything for me. I just read so much and I became an expert through that.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I feel like there's so much bad advice on TikTok.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

So much bad advice.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Just people either saying things for clicks or they're ill educated on what they're saying. Like even they think they're right and they're wrong. Do you run into a lot of

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

that 100% and they say it with such gusto that you're like, wait, are they right? And they're given like stock tips and they're, you know, they're always in their car and it's always like a nice car that I'm sure is like they're in debt leasing and like they have so much energy and enthusiasm as they're telling you 100%. But you have to be so careful with financial advice online. What's crazy is that the data shows that it's really working to have financial advice online. Like Gen Z is contributing to their 401ks at a higher rate than any other generation. And it's like, okay, what's sort of the difference? Could it be that, like, they're just seeing more, they're more financially literate because they have more access to it in this way? I hope so. But I think it's also really important to be discerning and remember, you want your life to be exciting, you want your relationship to be exciting, you want like, like cool, exciting accessories and clothing and trips and all this stuff. But getting rich should be boring. So any person that you see online who's making it seem really easy and really fast and really exciting, they're the ones who are getting rich off of you.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I have a lot of questions about debt.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yes, I'm your girl.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I was so afraid of debt my whole life because I never wanted to owe anybody anything. I've never had debt. I don't have debt anything now. A house, but it was always that way. And so I always lived extremely within my means. Or I saved up and I bought it because I did not want to have debt. Now I have learned, and this is rational, irrational, fighting with each other. To me, I've been taught that not all debt is bad.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yes, exactly. So it's all about the 7% rule.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Tell me that.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Have you heard of this?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I would like for you to tell. Of course I have, but tell them.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Okay, I'll tell you. Well, so you're saying that you buy your house outright.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Now I have no debt. But I also understand that some debt is okay, but I'm still so scared of it. And some debt, I couldn't get a. I couldn't get a loan because I have no credit history.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And I have a lot of money in the bank. But they were like, we can't give you a loan because you don't have a credit history at all. And so there are also. There's a. Just tell me why debt's good.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Okay, so this is a classic like rich person versus normal person thing where it's like, yeah, normal people are so scared of debt. And also the financial advice, the old rules of building wealth that we need to replace were all about debt being so evil. Like Dave Ramsey is this Big pillar of financial literacy. And he literally has a bell that people, like, drive like 20 hours to come ring when they become debt free. Like, the culture is all about being debt free. But there's something called the 7% rule that rich people use to actually leverage debt to make more money.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

But do you have to be rich to use the 7% rule?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

No, but it works if you have student any. So basically, the 7% rule is all about your debt interest rate. So say I have student loans that are 5%. The stock market historically returns 8 to 10% annually. So if I'm going, I'm. I would make. I would make more money paying the minimum on that 5% and then investing whatever extra money that I was going to put towards it to pay it off aggressively in the stock market. Then I would save by just paying off that loan. And this is why you see celebrities have mortgages. Jay Z and Beyonce have a mortgage. Mark Zuckerberg has a mortgage. Adele has a mortgage.

[Cindy Crawford]

Why?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Because they're borrowing money at a lower interest rate than they could make investing it, and they're able to turn a profit and grow wealth. And you can do this too if you have low interest rate debt.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Can't feel stupid now.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Well, I mean, we should. We should refi your house.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Nah, nah, you're not at this point.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

But also, the one thing to know about financial advice is, yes, there's a right and a wrong way to do things, but there's also a you way to do things. And I think that we all come into this with our own gripes and history and things that we're working through. And so it's like if what feels really safe to you and good.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Safe is a good word. Yeah, it's safe if you feel safe

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

not having a mortgage, sure, there might be a way for you to make more money, but it sounds like you have enough money. And if, like, safe means more to you than extra zeros in your bank account, that's okay.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

One of the habits I had to break was I would pay bills a month extra in case I ever ran out of money. So I'd have a month buffer. And my business manager was like, you have to stop doing that. But I was like, no, no, you don't understand. Like, back in the day, if you electricity got cut, you were done.

[Wells Fargo Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

She's like, your electricity is not going to get cut. I have the fear mindset still in me where I've had to stop a lot of those habits.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 1]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Because I have somebody telling me, and I think you're that somebody to a much younger generation.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Well, you're lucky that you have this business manager. It sounds like she's been super helpful.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I pay her.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, but that's okay. People pay me. Buy my book.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

She gets 5%, you know.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, that's good.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah. And the books has done fantastic.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, the books are best seller.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

They have to call you a New York Times bestseller everywhere you go now. That's right.

[Cindy Crawford]

Thank you.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yes.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I want to call you at a 2 because it's a tombstone thing, but you're 2x2 times newer times bestseller. Why does the ladder. Why does the goal post always move? Now I have one. It's like, oh, shit, I gotta do it again.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I almost didn't do it again. I didn't want to write a second.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

How long was it till you did it again? Four years and you got a big fat deal.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Would you like me to tell you my story?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I would love to, because it does

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

have to do with money.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, I love money. I love stories.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

You're my guest. So I wouldn't normally tell a long story about me, but you are a money person. This is a money story. I think you'll enjoy it. Yeah, I was pitching a children's. I had done a children's music record. It got bought by Cracker Barrel. And so I did this and I was like, oh, well, how about that? That seems pretty easy. I'll do a kid's book. And I had a few meetings with some publishers in New York. And so I flew up to New York and nobody wanted it because that kid's book market was oversaturated and I wasn't famous enough. And so it was a mixture of both of those things. And so I had done two or three meetings and I went to one final meeting at HarperCollins, which is a large book company.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yes, familiar. One of the big publishing houses.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And I pitched them the idea for the kids book and they said, that's not for us. But the meeting that I pitched to, there was someone in there who was a hybrid working, that worked in kids and also nonfiction. And they said, hey, we love your life story. Would you write it? And I said, I don't know. Like, I'm not Michael Phelps.

[Wells Fargo Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Not a Kardashian. I don't know if anyone wants it. And she's like, if you'll come tomorrow and pitch to a different group, we would love to have you. And I was already flying back home at the time.

[Wells Fargo Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

So I canceled my flight. I stayed an extra night I went back and I pitched and they said, we love the book. And they offered me like $180,000 up front.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Okay.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Which was a really good advance. I felt.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I don't know what people make, especially at the be. I do now.

[Pets Best Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I'm like, for you, like, we could get higher maybe.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Well, I didn't know the difference. And I'd never written a book and I didn't think I deserved the 180,000.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 1]

Yeah.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

That's crazy.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And so I'm like. I said, no, I'm not gonna take the money, but let me write half the book and if you still like it, I'll take your money.

[Redfin Advertiser]

Wow.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Then I'll finish the second. I'd never written anything. I mean, I've written blogs.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

But, you know, that's different.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

No, writing a book is. So you have to have the structure down and the whole thing. It's a lot.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And I went home and I just wrote essay after essay after essay just about my life story. And I turned in 30,000 words and they said, we like it. Will you take the money now? And so I took the money.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

You're so funny.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I didn't want the debt.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

The money is so.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

You didn't want the debt? I didn't want the debt.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

You didn't want the debt of the book deal?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I didn't want the debt.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

You said, no, I'll show you I'm good for it.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah. I was like, I want you to.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

You paid one month in advance.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I want you to actually believe that it's good by me showing it to you, because I don't believe I'm good.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yes.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And so I wrote it. They paid me. I then finished the book. It was number one for four weeks,

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

which was four weeks. Number one.

[HIV Prevention Advertiser]

Wild.

[Apple Card Advertiser]

Kill it.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I'm telling you, it was wild. I did not believe it.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Number one for four weeks. Are you kidding me?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

No.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

That's crazy.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I agree. I was embarrassed before it came out because I thought, and you know, a book tour, it's grueling.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

It's grueling.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I'm do all this book tour, nobody's going to buy it, and everyone's just going to like, laugh and I'll never write anything again. And so it did really well. And they were like, let's do another one. We'll give you more money. I'm like, I'm out.

[HIV Prevention Advertiser]

Out.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

It ain't about the money. I'm out. I'm a one hit wonder. I'm good.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 2]

No more.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

You did the Thing did it.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And so I just.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Number one for four weeks. You just sit with that for a sec.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I don't sit with it.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Keep going. Okay.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Said no for three years or so. And then I did a TED Talk and it was called winning by losing. And they said, write that. And I said, I don't know. And they said, here's a check. I said, okay, I'll take that one up front. It was much. It was much more.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, I'm sure. Because you were. You proved that you could do it.

[Wells Fargo Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And then I didn't feel like I was stealing their money.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And they were trying to convince me to do. I'd have to pitch them.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And so then I wrote a book called Fail until youl Don't. And it. It was dead two week number one,

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

fail until you don't. Great title.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Thank you. And it was that. It was very practical.

[Wells Fargo Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And then I got my friends to write their failure stories.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

So smart.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

That are. That are super famous. Like Charlamagne, the God, who's one of my closest friends. So he wrote like a chapter in it.

[Cindy Crawford]

Wow.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Chris Stapleton. Like all these artists. So these people that I. And it was just like, talk about your biggest failure that people will have no idea. And so I wrote like 85% of it. I had some friends hop in and do that. And then it did well. And then I'm like, I'm done. Then I wrote a kid's book, and it was. It was good, but that was my book stories that I wouldn't take the money because I was scared to take the money because I didn't think I was good enough.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I mean, I totally get that. I think that, like, there's so much imposter syndrome when it comes to, you know, taking checks. But, you know, you sort of just have to go with it, especially in this industry because sometimes the checks are pretty big and you don't want. You don't want to pass them up.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

How did you negotiate your book deal?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Well, we did. I played everyone against each other, which is always good to me.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

So you had multiple people. See, I didn't have multiple people coming to me. You're a star.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

No, no. But so I actually. So when I initially did my book deal, I wanted to do almost like write like a Sex and the City or a Girls, like a story that was about girl, like four friends in New York City starting out and like, their money journey. And they have this mentor and like,

[Paramount Plus Advertiser]

like

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

teach about money through that. Because I'm so much about, like, Having brownie, having spinach in the brownie, like trying to find creative ways to teach finance that people would be compelled by. That's such.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I like that spinach and the brownie. I've never heard that.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I, I think about that all the time. Cuz it's like you want it to feel like a treat. Like that's why I use so much humor and everything I do and things like that. Cause it's like you want it to just feel like so palatable. And so I worked so hard on this book deal. My friend Genevieve, I went to college with and she like writes on hacks and is doing Jake Shane's show and like is like such a big television writer. She was doing it with me. And so we brought it out. I had agents at UTA and couldn't really get more than like 100k for it. And they were like, okay, but just so you know, if you just did the like finance book, like the 101 straightforward, yeah, Mrs. Dow Jones book, you didn't like mussy it up with like all this flavor, you would get a lot more and like probably help more people. And so I was like, okay, I get it. Like I have to just start my book journey with the 101. And it ended up being so correct because I'm so happy that something exists now that can take you from like wherever you're starting to where you want to go and in such a clear way. And like, I'm sure there will be another reincarnation of that other part. Like things always find the way that they're supposed to happen, you know. And so yeah, we brought it to a bunch of publishing houses and played them against each other. And then what was interesting is that like four, the four that I really wanted to work with had the same offer number, which was sort of cool because then I could really decide based on like who I actually wanted to work with versus having that in my head of like, like, you know, if you get a job offer, you're usually going to take the job with the most money, you know, but you could actually, I could actually just decide on like who was the best person, best people to work with. And so. But I mean, all that strategy just came from having good agents, which it sounds like you have good coaches and people around you too. And I really believe, and I talk about this in the book, investing in your human capital and like making sure that you are, you know, making yourself as strong as you can be. And that can also mean who you're working with. But I also say on the topic of failure, it's crazy to be a New York Times bestseller because it was so hard to do this. And so it's fun. Like now it's been like a week of doing it. And I find myself, everything that I'm saying in response to people saying, wow, that's great. This is so cool. Is just like, it was really hard, you know? And it's like, I love that that was what your book was about. Cause I'm like, it's so important. You just see the shiny moment and people. It's the same thing with the influencer, with the cool outfit that you want to buy. Like, you get this, like, really small moment that you're seeing and you don't realize all that goes into it. That's like a lot of grit.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

The Bobbi Cast we'll be right back.

[Cindy Crawford]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but like, I never liked being told, oh, wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age, Every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Beautiful skin at every age.

[Cindy Crawford]

Learn [e-mail].

[Pets Best Advertiser]

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[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 1]

From the show last night to this drive. Why is it never chill?

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 2]

Because this is our life backstage on the road. It's loud, messy, real.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 3]

And that's the best part. Whole crew, no plan, just moving.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 1]

Good thing Nissan builds for that kind of chaos.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 2]

Not just test tracks, real life scenes, late nights, road trips, all of it.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 3]

That's why it holds up. Nissan was ranked number one in initial quality among mainstream brands by J.D. power.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 1]

Yeah, you can tell.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 3]

2026 Nissan Rogue built for what really happened for J.D.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 2]

power. 2025 US Initial Quality Study Award information. Visit jdpower.com awards awards based on 2025 model year. Newer models may be shown.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

This is the bobbycast. What do you think's been an element in your book that most people have resonated with? So much so they've told you.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I will say, well, I have a bunch of stories and I think that the stories around for women, so for women especially, having an emergency fund is really important, which is basically like this three to six month sort of pot of gold that you keep in a high yield savings account of bare bones living expenses. And it really gives you the power to say no and to like walk away from situations that don't serve you. And so I have a story in the book of my friend. Most of the people in the book who I interview were followers, but this was actually my friend and she was in an abusive relationship and everything on the surface looked really great and sort of in like that mid-30s way that can happen, I think, especially to women where you're sort of like, oh, all my friends are getting married. You know, this guy's tall. We've got a dog together. We're living together. Is it that bad? Maybe. Is there anyone out there for me that's better? You know, you got this guy's tall. This guy's tall. Tall can really, really mess with your head, man. Like tall and a dog. The dog's name was Matilda. Come on, man, like, those are some good things going for you. If she pushed her around a little, but I mean, she's trying to see past it,

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 3]

but.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

But anyways, it did get To a breaking point where she was like, oops, gotta go and had she leave with the emergency fund and she had, she got her freedom apartment, it's what she calls it. It took her over a year to rebuild it, the emergency fund. But it was like that gave her the power to say no. And so I think that resonates with a lot of people. Yeah. And I also, yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

If people want to invest in stocks because something like Robinhood is so easy to just download or whatever the app is. I'm not sponsored by anyone, so I

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

use Robinhood free agent.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah. So like how does someone get started like and what should they invest in?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, so it's actually so easy. I always say it's like basically take seventh grade math, some like just bravery because most people are so scared of doing it wrong and automation and you can start investing. And so I really recommend low cost index funds which are basically these like big baskets of stocks. And so what that means is you're not going all in. Like for you. Okay, you have this investment in Waterloo. If Waterloo tanks, that money is gone.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

But if you have a low cost index fund, like say I buy the s and P500, I'm buying a little piece of 500 of the biggest companies in America. So if one of those say is Waterloo and they go under, I've got 499 other stocks to bring the next fund back up and get me to those 8 to 10% returns. And all the data shows this is like the most effective way to invest for the long term. And so I don't really know why people mess around with like day trading and buying individual stocks because all the data shows that you're never really going to beat the market. Like even active traders don't really beat the market. And so I would say yeah, 2 to 3 low cost index funds I have on my [e-mail] like my low cost index fund guide that has all the index funds that I like. And all that you need to do is buy two to three and automate that investment every month. And then you will literally your wealth will be compounding and growing and you 10, 20, 30 years from now, we'll have millions of dollars. It's that simple.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

How do you feel about cryptocurrency?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I like to look at it as like accessory to a portfolio, you know, not the main event. Like I think with a stock portfolio, with your investment portfolio you can take like 5 to 10% if you want and be experimental. Buy crypto, buy Waterloo you know, do the thing, whatever. Like, like your cousin gives you a tip, go for it. But the 90% of that portfolio should be in low cost index funds so that you have your own back. You know what I mean?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

So you said earlier.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

And of course, there's always ways to get rich quick, right? And everything looks better in hindsight, you know? So you see crypto when it's up and you're like, shit, I should have bought it. And it gives you that FOMO feeling, but you shouldn't. Like, it's not, I wish I had a crystal ball. I don't. But all I do have is, like, the data. And that shows if I buy low cost index funds, I'm probably gonna get 8 to 10% returns. And that in 20 or 30 years, like, that's gonna make me a shit ton of money.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

So you said earlier, be boring, make more money. But index funds are very boring.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, it's not. But you're gambling and investing are not the same thing.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Right. So that's very boring. Which means you're gonna make probably more money.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Right?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Like overall, macro speaking, you might have a stock or two that pops, but you're gonna have some that fall if you're buying individual stocks. But if you're doing, like you said, an index fund of the sort, what'd you call them? A low cost index fund.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Low cost end of fund.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah. That is generally ones that succeed more. Is that what you're saying? Like, if you buy the S&P 500, pretty successful rate, year over year.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, 8 to 10%.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Got it.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

And like over 20 years, like, there's like a 99% chance that you're making money.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Oh, it's that high?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah. It's insane. Because if The S&P 500 goes down, those are the top 500 companies in America. So it's like, it's pretty much Armageddon.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Like, it's not like we're all dying.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah. It's like, okay, like, go in your bunker, babe. Like, not sure the stock portfolio is really the issue here. Like, pretty sure. Like, we got bigger fish to fry, so, you know, like, you're pretty safe.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I'm genuinely asking these questions, like, I don't know the answers.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

No, I'm loving it.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I'm not being the. I am the dumb guy when it comes to things like this. No, I love it because I didn't learn it. And then once I could have learned it, I had somebody doing it for me.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah. Which is also a way to do it.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

You say invest in humans.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

A human capital. How do you do that?

[Paramount Plus Advertiser]

What?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Human capital?

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, like, how do you make yourself better at what you do? Like, you're clearly really good at what you do. Like, you've touched a lot of things and they've turned to gold. Where do you think that comes from?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I've also touched a lot of things and they have not turned to gold.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, but like, doing a TED Talk and having it pop the off, like, that's. Can I curse?

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 1]

Yeah.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Okay.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Get them all out. Get them all out.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah. I was gonna say a worse one, but I'm a lady. No, the P word.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Oh, that one's not as bad as a C word.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Do both. I don't want to, though. I'm scared. Hypothesis is yours.

[Wells Fargo Advertiser]

I.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Well, I don't know the question now after that, I'm sure you. Oh, human capital.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Oh, yeah. Like, okay, but having a TED Talk that pops the fuck off, like, that's. No, like, what? That's crazy.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah, it did pretty good. I don't know that it popped super hard, but it did pretty good enough to where my book company was. Like, that's what you should write. But how I invest in human capital is I find people that I think have a great energy and a great work ethic, and I believe they can then learn anything I need them to learn.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

That's so great. I love that.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

All of depending on what part of my business. For example, like my radio show, my national. My syndicated show, they're all my friends.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Love that.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I hired all my friends because they made me better.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, no, I hired my best friend to work with me, too.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And, you know, there are certain. There are some good things, and there are things you have to work through to hire your friends for sure. But then even in, like, my other businesses, like, we have, you know, this podcast on Netflix, and I have a whole crew, and they're all my friends, too, that, you know, have worked with me in other parts of my job, who I know have a, like, great work ethic, massive energy, and then also I know they're able to learn because I've seen them learn in other ways. And having them around me make me feel good, make me perform better. That's my human capital. So I like investing in those people.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

You like investing in your. In, like, people around you who can make you look good and, like, who

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

make me feel good.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Make you feel good.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

If I feel good, everything else goes right. If I feel good, I play good.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I love that. But do you ever do things like, do you have Like a vocal coach or like, like a mindset person.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Have a trainer, have therapists.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, exactly. Like, so that's, that's also like human capital too, where it's like you have to fine tune yourself so that when you get out on the field and you do play, you're the best version of yourself. And by the way, I'm obsessed with having a trainer. I think that when you are busy, it is so hard to get your ass to the gym.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

That's the best part about it. It's not even they're teaching you what to do. You're now dedicated to that time because you're paying that money 100.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Like you think I would ever do a lunch if someone was about paying someone to like a lunch? Absolutely not. That's not. Not on the menu for me.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

So maybe a walk to keep yourself healthy. Another thing would be like things I do to keep myself healthy.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Exactly. Peptides, I'm sure.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah. So that's what you mean by that.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Plasma. I could see you doing plasma.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 2]

A little blow.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Spinning.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, I could do spinning. Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Prp. Oh yeah, all the letters.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Okay.

[Apple Card Advertiser]

Love it.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

I'm surprised you don't have an IV right here.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

If it's got, if it's got letters, I probably stick it in my body.

[Cindy Crawford]

Okay.

[Apple Card Advertiser]

Love it.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Season two. Maybe you've got some needles going.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

So that's what you mean by human capital.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah, like things that you do. Like, I think, well, okay, so like say you're starting your career. You might feel like you're just like on the sardonic treadmill and like nothing's really working and whatever. But like if you invest in your skill, like people who are so scared of AI, right. AI is gonna take all my jobs. Whatever. The people who win with AI are gonna be the ones who know how to use it. So instead of being scared of AI, learn how to use it. Get really good at it. Things like that where you put yourself in the position to win because you invest in making yourself better. I think that you are your best investment always.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I completely agree. I think you and the people you surround yourself with totally like you are your environment a hundred percent.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 1]

So.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And if your environment ain't good, you ain't gonna be good for long. Like, you might be good for a minute, but you're not gonna be good for long.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

So I completely subscribe to your theory.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Yeah. One bad apple ruined the bunch.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah. Would you have any content early that popped off so hard that kind of told you you were going in the right Direction.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Such a good question. I am not an overnight success. I don't know if that's your journey, but for me, I have been grinding for, like, nine years. There's certainly been content that really pushed me to the next level. Like, I did a video about, Remember, I don't know if this was. Came across your desk, but when Beyonce was on tour, she was every. Her daughter was dancing with her every weekend. And the Internet would go craz, like, analyzing Blue Ivy, Beyonce's daughter's dance moves, and is she a Nepo baby? Is she even good? And, like. And Blue invested in her own human capital, actually, and, like, worked really hard to get better. So if you see the videos from the beginning of the tour to the end, she's, like, in. She's, like, pro by the end, which is. I mean, just an aside, but I made a video about custodial Roth IRAs connected to that, which are these investment accounts that you can open for children who have taxable income, which, of course, if you're dancing on a tour, whether or not it's your mother's tour or not, you have taxable income. And I showed how much money you could make by doing that through telling the story of Blue Ivy that, of course, the whole Internet was aware of, because every weekend she's performing and then there's a discourse. And, you know, it was right in the culture. Pop. But it was the perfect Mrs. Dow Jones moment of taking the pop culture and using it to tell you something about money.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Spinach and the brownie.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Spinach and the brownie, baby. And that's. That was insane. That was like 300,000 followers. Yeah, 300,000 followers. Like, pushed me really quickly to a million. That video got, like, 13 million views. But instead of just getting the views and you would. Sometimes the video is viral and nothing happens. It actually grew me. So that's one that I think about, but I think everything else is just one foot in front of the other. And, like you said, so many failures. And, like, that's one video that worked. Guess what? There were, like, 100 other videos that didn't work that broke my heart, that I worked just as hard on. So you can't, you know, ever figure out what's going to hit.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Well, congratulations. That's fantastic. Thank you, future rich person.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 2]

Here it is.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

I'm going to show all the cameras.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

So nice. I feel so lucky I got to sit down with you. I'm such a big fan.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

No, stop.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

It's true.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

You did. I know your content. I'm not even going to challenge you. I'm just going to say thank you.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

No, I'm not.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

My therapist says I should say thank you when people say thank you.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 3]

Except.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

And not like, you're lying.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

No, I do that, too.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Yeah, you're like, oh, Bobby, I like you. You're lying.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

No, Bobby, I like you, and you're lying.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Okay, here's the book. It is a New York Times bestseller. Hayley, thank you so much. And I will continue to consume your content.

[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

So nice. Me, too. Ditto.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

She'll consume her content, too. Perfect. All right, there it is. You guys get the book. Thanks for listening to a Bobby King production.

[Podcast Host]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Honestly.

[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 1]

Honestly.

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[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

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[Nissan Rogue Crew Member 1]

Now I will control an Empire.

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[Financial Expert (Mrs. Dow Jones / Haley Sacks)]

Just make sure we protect each other.

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[Interviewer / Podcast Host (Bobby)]

Welcome to the history books.

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[Podcast Host]

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