BOBBYCAST - Mae Estes on Why She Thinks Her & Bobby Might Be Cousins + Country Music Being the Perfect Genre for Her Because of Her Own Struggles and Tribulations in Life + The Best Advice She Got from Ashley McBryde + Touring with Luke Bryan

Summary

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Bobbycast with Mae Estes – Episode 552

Airdate: November 7, 2025
Host: Bobby Bones
Guest: Mae Estes
Theme: Why Mae Thinks She and Bobby Might Be Cousins | Country Music as Life’s Perfect Genre | The Best Advice from Ashley McBryde | Touring with Luke Bryan

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Episode Overview

Bobby Bones sits down with rising country artist Mae Estes, whose career is gathering buzz with her new self-titled EP. The episode traces Mae’s journey from small-town Arkansas to Nashville, exploring familial ties, life struggles, resilience, and her passion for authentic songwriting. With candid reflections, the two discover surprising similarities, discuss issues of self-worth and validation, and delve into the realities of building a music career from the ground up. Insightful moments cover their shared backgrounds, the drive survival inspires, mentorship from Ashley McBryde, and the thrill and chaos of opening for Luke Bryan.

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Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. Small-Town Roots & The "Cousin" Connection (03:10–08:00)

• Shared Arkansas Heritage:
  • Bobby and Mae discuss the speculation that they're related due to similar last names (“Estelle” vs. “Estes”) and both hailing from southern Arkansas.
  • Mae pokes fun at winning “Hope Watermelon Idol” as a teenager after years of losing to a septuagenarian cyclist.
• Similar Upbringings:
  • Both come from absent-father households, limited means, and a lack of opportunity, fueling their drive and work ethic.
  • Mae: “I have a Jerry Springer life story and that's why I fit so well in country music...My heroes like Loretta Lynn and Tammy Wynette were not making that stuff up off the cuff. They were living it.” (08:22)

2. The Road to Nashville: Hustle, Insecurity, and the Cost of the Dream (09:35–24:12)

• Education and Responsible Decisions:
  • Mae wanted to attend Belmont in Nashville but chose Henderson State for scholarships, earning a degree in Mass Media Communication.
  • Worked multiple jobs to save for her move.
• Financial Fear as a Superpower:
  • Maintaining multiple jobs (Victoria’s Secret, line cook, hosting at Fishnet) even after arriving in Nashville.
  • Both discuss the anxiety of not having a financial safety net; for Mae, “money was my biggest...I gotta figure this out first.” (17:58)
  • Bobby: “My approach on money was and still is to a point...I've been poor also, and I also know I can be poor again. And that's...I survived.” (19:03)
• Making it in Music City:
  • Adapting to a world of “crazy talented” people, most being either “rich or poor,” rarely middle class.
  • Mae: “At first I was so intimidated...then I was like, I think I'm authentically what some people wish they were.” (32:26)
• Nashville Realities:
  • Ongoing work to survive, relentless networking, and dealing with impostor syndrome.

3. On Vulnerability, Validation & Artistic Purpose (29:45–56:15)

• The Struggle for Validation:
  • Mae and Bobby guide each other through their shared discomfort with praise. Praise for hard work or resilience is easier to accept than for innate talent.
  • Mae: “I think I'm more excited that they've heard of me.” (53:06)
  • Unpacking impostor syndrome and the painful resonance of criticism.
• Best Advice from Ashley McBryde:
  • Ashley tells Mae: “You better start acting like you belong here. You wouldn't have these opportunities if they weren't meant for you. And the whole, I'm just so happy to be here...you going to have to lock that up.” (54:19)
• Difference Between Talent and Success:
  • Bobby: “There’s no formula...if people like you, they want to be around you...and that's such a valuable part of, well, life in general.” (57:27)
• Songwriting as Coping & Connection:
  • For both, traumatic backgrounds—absent parents, poverty, addiction—led to resilience and a deep well for songwriting.
  • Mae: “I started writing diary entries and poetry that eventually turned into songs. Because that piece of paper never talked back and never said, what you're feeling is wrong.” (45:02)

4. Relationships & Team Building: Navigating Support Systems (60:10–67:47)

• Marrying “Outsiders”:
  • Mae’s husband is a mobile mechanic from her college days, offering a grounding perspective free from industry bias.
  • Both discuss value in partners who aren’t in showbiz, helping them differentiate between real-life worries and music industry anxieties.
  • Bobby: “I am not linear at all...She resets me a lot where she's like, you are investing a lot of emotional energy in something that's not going to matter to you in six days.” (63:27)
• Building a Trusted Team:
  • Both describe reluctance to let others in professionally and personally, but acknowledge that healthy teams and relationships require trust and vulnerability.

5. Career Momentum: Recent Wins & Facing Industry Realities (73:21–80:28)

• Exposure & Progress:
  • Mae celebrates opening for Luke Bryan, playing large venues, and earning radio adds (her song “I Better Go Off” added to iHeart Country).
  • Describes the anxiety and exhilaration of being thrown into unscripted situations on stage with major artists.
• Navigating Metrics of Success:
  • There's no single measure of “making it”— success looks different on different platforms (TikTok engagement vs. streaming numbers vs. radio adds).
  • Mae: “I've been, like, screaming my name from the rooftops trying to find my people, so it feels like I've been given a few industry opportunities lately, specifically that have put me in front of a lot of people. And that is validation.” (73:26)
• Streaming & Social Media:
  • Mae’s TikTok hit “Mr. Fix It” had massive engagement but didn’t translate into equivalent streams.
  • Realizes she must “stop caring so much” about numbers and validation and focus on authenticity.

6. Authenticity & the Value of the Record (87:13–91:01)

• The Dream of a Full Album:
  • Despite the industry push towards singles and EPs, Mae’s heart is set on releasing a full record to tell a more complete story.
  • Bobby compares this to his own long-held dream of hosting an award show—both caution against over-assigning self-worth to longstanding goals.
  • “You've wanted to make a record for a long time, and you've attached your success to making that freaking record. It ain't about the record.” (89:13)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Arkansas Family Trees:
  Mae, on double cousins: “It's like Arkansas is thick in here.” (09:18)

• On Resilience:
  Mae: “It's resilience. I have that, and I have noticed that is my greatest strength.” (20:01)

• On Financial Anxiety:
  Bobby: “Money was a big driver in shaping how disciplined I am because I had to have money to survive. And if I wasn't super disciplined, I don't think I would have survived.” (20:59)

• On Vulnerability in Songwriting:
  Mae: “Because that piece of paper never talked back and never said, what you're feeling is wrong. So that's where it all started, was having those feelings and that validation.” (45:02)

• On Touring with Luke Bryan:
  Mae: “Luke wouldn’t tell us what song we were singing before we went out...I'm finna blow your mind. Let's go. Luckily, I know just about every song that's ever existed.” (75:02)

• On the Industry’s Irony:
  Mae: “People want to sing about a trailer house now. I grew up in a damn trailer house. They want to fake poor even if they weren’t because that’s the relatable thing.” (32:26)

• On the Advice from Ashley McBryde:
  Mae: “She was like...you better start acting like you belong here.” (54:19)

• On Validation & Letting Go:
  Bobby: “Amy Poehler’s book: ‘I really made it once I stopped caring that I made it.’ I think about that all the time...” (80:31)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:10: Shared roots, “cousin” rumors, and Arkansas family histories
• 08:22: Mae’s family background; how personal drama fuels country songs
• 11:43: College-era hustles; working Waffle House & fast food
• 17:58: Surviving in Nashville, the stress of networking and financial motivation
• 29:45: The rarity of creative dreamers in small towns vs. Nashville’s ambition
• 32:26: Insecurity, authenticity, and Nashville’s “fake poor” trend
• 53:06: Why praise is hard to accept—impostor feelings and numbness to validation
• 54:19: Ashley McBryde’s direct advice: “Act like you belong”; shifting mindsets
• 63:27: The importance of non-industry spouses to maintain perspective
• 73:26: Touring with Luke Bryan, crowd engagement, and real-world validation
• 75:02: Out-of-body experience on tour; resilience under pressure
• 87:13: The dream of making a full record; not tying self-worth to industry milestones
• 91:26: Closing: Mae’s commitment to honesty, difficulty “faking it,” and industry schmoozing

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Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in honesty about the unglamorous struggles and stubborn hopes fueling a modern country artist’s rise. Mae Estes, with Bobby Bones as a mirror and mentor, peels back layers of rural trauma, music industry pressures, personal ambition, and the value of self-acceptance. By episode’s end, listeners are left rooting for Mae—and reminded that authenticity, resilience, and community matter more than any chart position or record deal.

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End of summary.

Transcript

[A]

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[D]

Happens to good people in small towns.

[C]

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[C]

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[E]

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[C]

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[E]

Iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts. My heroes like Loretta Lynn and Tammy Wynette were not that stuff up off the cuff. They were living it. And when I try to figure out why my story has gone the way it has, I think God was like, well, you gotta have something to write about, sis.

[A]

Welcome to episode 552 with Mae Estes. You can follow her on Instagram even just to see what she looks like. M A E E S T E S Mae Estes. She's got a self titled EP that came out October 10th. You can check out her music. And obviously I liked her. Also, great merch. I've been wearing her hats for like week and a half now. Yeah, right. Two colors of it. Yeah. At the end she was like, hey, I brought you a couple hats. And people do bring stuff sometimes and most stuff just goes in the pile. But she actually made some really cool hats. So I've been wearing those. And for no other reason than I think she just designed some really good merch. So she's really been like, showing up in things, meaning you just see her name popping around like she's an artist that's elevating big time now she's doing bigger shows. You're seeing her as part of, like, events in town. And so she's kind of been on the radar a little bit. And so to me, someone was like, hey, do you want to interview Maestas? And I'd known her music a little bit, but I was like, I don't know if we're there yet. And then I kept seeing her name. And then I was with George Burge. And I talk about this and George is a close friend of mine. And he was like, she's great. And then he's like, you know, she's like, you. And I was like, completely neurotic. And he's like, no, like, she went to this Henderson State University. She's from a small town, like near you. And I was like, really? She's from Arkansas. He's like, yeah, all that. And so did a little digging. Obviously I like what she's doing artistically also. Sometimes don't want to, like, get ahead of it and put somebody on before they really have something. They're. But no, this was good. I was glad we did this then. And then she's also just a really cool artist and I hope everybody checks her out. So this is Mae Estes. Anything you want to say, Mike? It's like meeting you in the multiverse a little bit. Yeah, I agree. If I was Born a girl. Yeah. Or not. I mean, it could also be just me now. Here she is. Episode 552. You know what? Get you a Mae Estes hat like I often wear. There you go. That's it. Here she is. Mae Estes. May. Welcome. Good to see you. I know about you a bit. Well, mostly because I started doing some investigating. The first time someone said something was. It was mostly like, are you and May related? Because my real last name is almost your last name. Because my real last name is Estelle, which is E S T, E L, L. Yours is Estes. People think because we're from Arkansas and we have the reputation of being all related that we might be related. I said, no, I don't. I'm not related to her. We're from basically the same part of the state, school, everything. And then one of my dear friends, we were flying back from Chicago and someone had asked about you. And I asked George Burge. I said, do you like Mae Estes? And he was like, she is the best. And I was like, done. So that is how you ended up here. So, George, your thoughts on all of that?

[E]

Well, Bobby, you are a legend where we come from.

[A]

Well, I think there's a few of the only few of us that got out of the outside of the state line, so they remember us for. For whatever reason.

[E]

Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

And your story has been inspirational to me, even from a distance as far as, like, you don't have to have anything, but I guess I'm calling it audacity these days to believe that you can do it. And so a lot of our story is similar in the same that, like, we came from, I think absent dads and no money and small town and no resources or opportunities. And so I was really drawn to your story and followed your career closely because of country music, obviously, but also because you come from damn near the exact same area and have proven that with work ethic and sheer determination, you can make a lot of really crazy stuff.

[A]

Well, that's nice of you. You're from Hope.

[E]

Hope, Arkansas.

[A]

I've been to Hope a bunch.

[E]

Sorry about that.

[A]

Hey, but. Well, I'm from Mountain Pine, so Hope was big compared to Mountain Pine. I think you guys were like 3A or 4AMy. My best friend and my. One of my groomsmen played quarterback at Hope, and so. And you guys had the Watermelon Fest. The Hope Watermelon Fest.

[E]

I was the Hope Watermelon Idol one year.

[A]

You were.

[E]

You're in the presence of royalty.

[A]

They had the Watermelon Idol?

[E]

Yeah. And it took me about five years to win it. They kept letting this like 75 year old man who like rode a bicycle to the competition win it every year.

[A]

Wait, they're the old man. It wasn't like American Idol where there was an age gap or a limit or anything like that.

[E]

No. And I was still young and cute and had that going for me and still couldn't win it, so.

[A]

So in year five or six, you finally win Hope Idol. No. Watermelon Idol.

[E]

Oh, no. I was like about to move to Nashville. I was like 20 or 19 when I finally won. But I did finally win it.

[A]

Well, congratulations on that. I'm sorry I didn't get to tell you that initially. I know that was a big part of your career when looking back. So growing. Did you go to Hope High School?

[E]

I did.

[A]

And whenever you're growing up and I don't know your family situation. So no. Dad, dad, check out what happened.

[E]

That is a whole other podcast, I'm afraid. But my biological dad left by the time I was 2. My mom eventually remarried, that dad adopted me. They've actually been divorced and remarried to each other in the process of getting divorced again. So I have.

[A]

That doesn't even sound weird to me. I'm going to be honest with you.

[E]

You're honestly one of the people I was like, you know who. I don't think I'm going to be able to raise an eyebrow on Bobby Bones because I. The rest of this town is pretty enamored with my. I. I like to say I have a Jerry Springer life story and that's why I fit so well in. Country music is my heroes like Loretta Lynn and Tammy Wynette were not making that stuff up off the cuff. They were living it. And when I try to figure out why my story has gone the way it has, I think God was like, well, you gotta have something to write about, sis.

[A]

He was giving you material.

[E]

And when I'm in my most positive mindset, that's how I'm looking at my life.

[A]

So I have double cousins in that I have my sister and myself because my mom and her sister married my biological dad. I don't really call my dad but his brother. So we had two sisters marrying two brothers so that that tree doesn't really branch out. So we're not inbred. I have to say that we're not.

[E]

Inbred, but it's like Arkansas is thick in here.

[A]

Yeah, we're double cousins. We're. Whereas as much cousin as you could Possibly be without it being illegal. So when you say stuff like that, you know what, that's just how it is. That's how it is in Arkansas. So you finished at Hope High School. Did you graduate?

[E]

Yeah, I graduated from Hope High and wanted to go to Belmont. I came to Nashville and toured it and it was going to cost me an astronomical amount of money. I was getting a bunch of in state scholarships. I did really well in school and so I was getting a full ride to go to Henderson State and honestly took the responsible route. I wanted to be in Nashville from the time I was seven when I started singing. But so grateful. I went to Henderson, learned a lot about myself and got a mass media communication degree.

[A]

Dang. We might be just the same person in a different timeline.

[E]

I don't know how much to creep you out with those details, but yeah, also interned at US 97, really for my internship in college. And yeah, man, our paths have crossed in a lot of ways.

[A]

When you moved to Nashville, did you finish school and you're like, now I have to go?

[E]

Well, I was chomping at the bit to go before I ever went to college. In college, I think I was first generation college graduate. I think a lot of it was like, this feels like what you're supposed to do and it feels like a responsible thing for me to fall back on.

[A]

So you wanted to get your degree first?

[E]

I wanted to get my degree. So I went for three years instead of four.

[A]

Oh, you crammed it in.

[E]

Loaded up on classes, worked full time to save to move Nashville.

[A]

What'd you do for work there?

[E]

I worked at the Hibbett Sports. I worked at the Degray Lodge as a line cook. Only girl. Youngest one by like 20 years. That was maybe the worst job I've ever had. I did anything I could just to like hustle because money was not going to be the reason I didn't get to Nashville.

[A]

So I drove every day because I worked every day. Would drive from Arkadelphia to Hot Springs and so I drove over the dam every day.

[F]

Yes.

[A]

I mean, that is such a something I don't think about now. But every day I made that drive over to Gray and that whole area because I had to drive to Hot Springs. I would go to class 8am I would take 8am classes. I ran the college radio station as well. And so I'd finish there around 2 or 3 and drive over. Always stop at Popeyes in Hot Springs, work and then leave at midnight or 1. And then there's the waffle House very close to Arkadelphia, but it's right before you get back into Arkadelphia. And I spent probably four nights a week there in that waffle house that when you're driving back, it's on the right side of the road and Caddo Valley. Yeah, right in Caddo Valley.

[E]

We call that the awful waffle.

[A]

And I spent so much of my time there just studying, getting ready for the next day so I could go back to work. So I know what that hustle is, especially when you're there. There was a bank in Arkadelphia. I haven't thought about this in a while. And I'm at the ATM or near it. I'm in the line and it was one of Those drive up ATMs and there's a woman and she, it's very windy and she's struggling to reach out and her money comes out. And I can see it come out and it's sitting in that bottom like that grip that you, that you take it from. It comes down and she doesn't see it. And she looks back down into her car and as she looks, a gust of wind blows it all out. Cash blows everywhere. And she comes back and she looks at it and the money's not there. But the machine says she, she was given that money. She's confused. And then I see her kind of get angry and she just drives off and she drives into the bank and I see all the money come out of the machine. So I park my car and I get out and I'm grabbing the money. It's again, it's such a windy day. I grab all the money. I'm picking it all up. I don't know if I got all of it, but I've got it all in my hand. It's a lot of twenties. It was like 280, $300. So it's a significant amount of money. So I take the money, I drive it back around to the bank in Arkadelphia and I go in and she's just given the teller the business. The machine did not give me my money. I want my money. I need to credit it back to my account. If you're not going to give me the money. I walk in and I'm like, oh, here's your monies. When you look down, it all blew out. She's like, oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. I'm so sorry. So she takes her money, she leaves. They tell me at the bank, hey, that's really nice of you. We Want to give you a reward because you easily could have driven off with all that money. I'm like, this is all a bank's going to give me a reward. This is the best place to give you a reward because that's, you know, it's going to be something significant. They're like, come back Monday and get your reward. And I lived in a really small townhouse in Arkadelphia. Rent was like 200 bucks a month.

[E]

The dream.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm like, I'm about to get my rent, everything paid for. And so I go back, I was so excited to go on Monday and ready to get my reward. And I show up and they give me a hat from the bank and they give me like a 10% off coupon to the catfish restaurant. And they were like, thank you so much for saving all that money. I was like, where's the rest?

[E]

Fishnet. I was a host there.

[A]

That's it.

[E]

I was the host there.

[A]

You worked at the Fishnet.

[E]

It didn't go well. You know, I need to be on the line, I think. Not at the host stand. I'm not a good greeter.

[A]

That's my last Archadelphia story. I saved a whole bunch of money and got 10% off the fishnet fish nest and a hat. So you leave Arkadelphia, you're done with Arkadelphia, you move to Nashville. What do you pack up? You pack up. Do you have enough stuff for a big truck? A u haul away?

[E]

We have a trailer. My family made the. They didn't move with me, but they helped me move my uncle van, my mama, my daddy, and my sister. So I drove my Honda Civic and had it loaded to the brim. And then they had a truck with a trailer behind it that had my bed and some furniture like that. And I moved into a house in East Nashville with two other girls that I did not know at all for 500amonth.

[A]

How'd you meet them? Online. Just find somebody needs a roommate.

[E]

Nope. I was on Craigslist looking for roommates. My mom was having a heart attack because of that, thinking I was gonna get murdered. Yeah, I'm talking like 50 year old men I don't know that have like a room for rent. And I'm like, hello, I'm 21 and I'd love to live in your house. Eight hours away from everything. I know. Like, anyways, I. My mom called this guy's mom, which is the most Arkansas thing ever. She's like, my friend Bitty has this son That I think is doing well in Nashville. And I'm like, mama, don't harass them people. But thank God she did.

[A]

Oh, she knew somebody already here.

[E]

My family. My mom's dad was in a bluegrass band before I came along, and there's a dobro player, big session player in town named Josh matheny who was in a band called king billy back in the day, and his mom, King Billy.

[A]

Had a lot of famous players in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[E]

Matt utterback on bass, Kevin Weaver on drums. That was my band when I first got here was. I played with the king billy band, which is unbelievable as a any. It was insane. But anyways, mom called his family, and he ended up taking me under his wing immediately. So I didn't know anybody in Nashville, but I knew of Josh Matheny, and he is the biggest blessing I've ever had. He was taking me backstage at the opry immediately let me come watch him play at the bluebird. He was super close with Carly Pierce at the time, and so I was just right in the middle of all of it, taking as many notes as I can. I really lucked into a lot of networking as soon as I got here through that guy. So I give him a bunch of credit. But other than that, man, I had to figure it out. And I started working three jobs at a time, and I did that for five years until I finally got a publishing deal.

[A]

What'd you do here? What jobs?

[E]

It'd be easier to tell you what I didn't. I managed the Victoria's secret in the green hills mall. If you've never folded a panty bar, then you don't know real torture.

[A]

I haven't in a while.

[E]

So, yeah, and that sucked. I did that at the same time I worked at tavern in midtown, and I did that for four years. That's where I got laid off in Covid from that restaurant.

[A]

Were you doing those because you could do one a day and one at night? Was Tavern a night more of a night job?

[E]

It swapped around if I didn't work morning. If I worked morning shift at one, I worked the evening shift at the other. And on my off days from one of those jobs, I was at my other job and 10 years into it. Now, I'm not sure why I convinced myself I had to work every second, But I think the financial part of my journey, when I talk to other artists and friends, have made this kind of crazy move. The financial part looks different for me than it does for a lot of those people. It has Been a driving force where I think I have a gigantic fear of not having any money and having to depend on people. And like, I just know that if, if I drop the ball here financially, I have nowhere to go but maybe move back in with my parents. And like, I've never had a. A fail safe when it comes to that. So when I moved here, I was like, it's so expensive to live here. It's obviously a gigantic difference from the small town I grew up in. And so I was so stressed about I gotta get my feet on the ground financially because then you gotta make music which costs. But I mean, I was just trying to live here and network and cost as much money. You're trying to meet as many people as you can, but that's going out to bars and dinners and you gotta spend money to network too. And so money was my biggest. Like, I gotta figure this out first.

[A]

It's still that for me and I have it and it's still. I still freak out about it.

[E]

I wanted to ask you how much. I had a conversation this morning with a friend that was like, I think I would make a lot of different decisions in the music business if I could completely separate that. Okay, how am I going to pay my mortgage? But the money part, like, if I had the freedom in that way to make decisions, it would look different.

[A]

Yeah. But I think at least with me, sure, it would look different as well. But it shaped how I approached everything. Like my approach on money was and still is to a point. I was scared to do like direct deposit. I was scared to do auto bill pay because there wouldn't be money at all. These, all these irrational later fears that I didn't feel safe even with letting people see or have my money like a business manager. That was very difficult for me.

[E]

That has been the hardest thing maybe ever. It's so foreign. And when you come from a family that like, we ain't never had no finances to manage and then you hand all that over, it's.

[A]

And you have to pay them.

[E]

So foreign.

[A]

Yeah, so. And that was hard for me. But I think the extreme discipline that I have and had with money also affected things positively in other ways that weren't money related. Like my work ethic. I'm gonna show up before other people. I'm gonna work longer if I need to because I've been so scared of not having money. I got to make sure that I am the absolute best so I don't get cut and don't have money. So I think it's made me a harder worker. Just even now, I think it's. I think it's been kind of a superpower. I think it's where the tenacity has come from. I think I've been poor also, and I also know I can be poor again. And that's. I survived. And I think that gave me a lot of comfort to know that if everything went wrong, period, I was still going to be okay because I was pretty good at being poor.

[E]

Yeah, it's resilience. I have that, and I have noticed that is my greatest strength. And it's a perspective of the world around you and other people. And I'm really grateful for it. But it definitely made it a lot harder.

[A]

Whenever they were like, hey, you got to get a business manager, I was like, well, I don't really know what that is. And I would call around and when they're like, you have to give us a percentage to handle your money, I was like, well, I don't want to do either. I don't want to give you a percentage, and I don't want you handling my money. So why in the world would I do this? And they're like, well, because you have to pay percentages. And I was touring a lot of the time, even with a band, they're like, you have to pay your. All your band people, all your bills, you got to pay your agent, you got to pay your. Your management, all those percentages, taxes, all taxes. Especially for jobs that aren't like, my main job, which, my main job, they take the taxes out, but my other five jobs, they don't. And I see why people in, like, Hollywood go to jail for not paying their taxes because it's. It's weird to have a job where they don't take the taxes out.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Money was a big driver in shaping how disciplined I am because I had to have money to survive. And if I wasn't super disciplined, I don't think I would have survived.

[E]

Mine's also safety based. I think maybe in a similar way to you, where I grew up in a childhood that I didn't have control over a lot of things. And so I think I ran full speed in the direction of, like, I don't want to have to depend on anybody because, you know, even the dad example alone, that's one of the first people that let you down that is supposed to do something that they didn't do. And so I learned that early and was like, I don't want to depend.

[A]

On anybody but me forever because somebody you should be able to depend on. You weren't able to depend on.

[E]

Yeah, that's the first lesson I learned as soon as I was old enough for my brain to develop.

[A]

It was, yeah, it's a sucky lesson.

[E]

Yeah. But it's. But if you use it right, you know, and it also. I'm able to relate to people in a way I couldn't without that perspective.

[A]

Yeah. I think empathy is again, another superpower. Perspective is also one that you don't really sign up because you want, nobody wants. It's nice to have perspective once it's there, but no one likes to gain it because you only gain it through struggle and. But you also get. Again, you write songs from perspective.

[F]

Yep.

[A]

And I think, you know, a lot of the music that you're writing comes from places that you've been or seen or been exposed to. And like you said, I think a lot of the situations that you've been through have created the creative that you are. And yeah, I think it's super interesting because again, I think we have a lot of similarities in how we got here. I can just imagine from Arkadelphia. I went to Austin from Arkadelphia. So similar type city to go do a job that I didn't know anybody. I moved there. It was kind of crazy. But I was also going to do what I thought I was supposed to do. Like I was leaving to go to Austin to start, really start my career and that was the same thing. When you moved here to Nashville, what do you do when you get here? I know you're working, but like what. How do you do music stuff? Like what's. Where do you start?

[E]

I'm still not sure. I was hoping you could tell me.

[A]

I'm out. Yeah, I know nothing what the next step is.

[E]

I just dove in. I have that same. I'm not trying to say I'm your cousin, but it's really looking like it because I have the exact same work ethic. And so I got here and anyone who would meet with me, talk to me, give me good advice, bad advice, would let me play a show, would let me sing two seconds for him if I could work a job, make some money, like, because you don't. Nashville was this magical mecca to me and just larger than life. And I thought all I had figured out at this time was that I had been given some kind of God given gift to connect with complete strangers. And it made me feel seen and made them feel seen. It was a physical release. Like that's singing for me. And then I think Nashville was probably the whole safety perspective. I was like, the people in Nashville can tell me how to make this a career where I'm able to take care of myself forever, take care of my family forever, have a stability of some sort. Which is hilarious to ever think you're gonna get that from the music industry, but I think that's my small town naivety was Nashville is the place to take this small gift and change my life with it.

[D]

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Like our episode where we look at.

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Diabetes in the United states. I mean, 50% of Americans are pre diabetic.

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How preventable is type 2?

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Extremely. Or our in depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

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Oh, it's hard to explain to rest of the world that like your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible. But like you don't even know.

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For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

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I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

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I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff.

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They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

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Thanksgiving isn't just about food. It's a day for us to show up for one another. I'm Eliot Khani, host of the podcast Family Therapy, a series where real families come together to heal and find hope. What would be a clue that would be like, I've gotten lots of text messages from him. This one's from a little bit better.

[E]

Of a version of him because he's feeding himself well.

[C]

It's always a concern, like, are you eating well?

[E]

He's actually an amazing cook.

[A]

There was this one time where we had neighbors and I saved their dog and I ended up inviting them over for food. And that was, like, one of my proudest moments.

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May 24, 1990. A pipe bomb explodes in the front seat of environmental activist Judy Berry's car.

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I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it rip through me with just a force more powerful and terrible than anything that I could describe.

[A]

In season two of Rip Current, we ask who tried to kill Judy Berry and why she received death threats before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing. The men and women who were hurt had planned to lead a summer of militant protest against logging practices in Northern California. They were climbing trees and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods.

[D]

The timber industry.

[A]

I Mean, it was the number one industry in the area. But more than it was the culture, it was the way of life.

[D]

I think that this is a deliberate.

[A]

Attempt to sabotage our movement. Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are available now. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back on the Bobbycast. Was it weird to have like minded people around?

[E]

Oh, that was incredible because I very much, you know, Arkansas, there was no music scene. I started singing the national anthem at rodeos I was in when I was little. That's where my first performances were. I became the national anthem girl for the Ark, La Tex.

[A]

And then no one means everybody listening is Arkansas, Louisiana and Texas. Yeah, it's like that whole area where it all kind of hits each other a little corner. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[E]

And that's all there was. No one was writing original music. There were some Oprys and Hayrids. I played the Oaklawn Opry in Texarkana all the time. And we drove to Glenwood for an AM radio show. But those were all classic country songs. And I was 10 years old. Singing don't come home with drinking was loving on your mind and having to learn all these old classics. And I was like, I want to sing Carrie Underwood. And I hated it at the time. And now I'm so old school, I'm like, all I love is classic country. But that's all there was around me. And so I knew if I wanted to have a career in country music, I could not do it in Hope, Arkansas or Arkadelphia, Arkansas. And I wanted to so bad, but it wasn't realistic. This was the hub. No one I knew did it and I had to come here to learn the business.

[A]

When you get and you have a job and it can be the tavern, it could be at the mall. It's other people trying to make it too that have jobs like that so they can make it. And to be around other people that were also trying to do the same thing. I'm sure it was both refreshing and even maybe a bit intimidating if they've been doing it for a long time and still haven't broken out yet.

[E]

Yeah, yeah. And well, you just feel crazy as a creative if you're not in the right spot. So it was cool to just. I think we. I can confirm we're all crazy now, but at least we're all in it together. But also that ambition. I feel like my hometown still. And I don't mean this negative at all, but they don't really know how to dream. I feel like my hometown discourages any kind of out of the box thinking or like, you want to start your own business, do it. Like, that's not a thing where I come from. And so when I got here, I met other people who were like, I want this. It doesn't exist. Let's make it. And so that was incredible. But there is that other part of, like, everybody here is unbelievably talented.

[A]

That's a truth.

[E]

And charismatic and beautiful and also rich. Felt like everybody's freaking parents were rich and had three lake houses and all kind of when I got here. And I was like. When we started talking about retreats and stuff, it was like, well, shoot, I ain't got. Y' all want to come to the deer campus? The shed, it ain't got no electricity even. But if y' all want to come, we can write some songs. And so at first I was so intimidated by that because I was like, damn, I'm not going to fit in in this. But then I was like, oh, and now, like, times have even changed where it feels like people are chasing that. Like, people want to sing about a trailer house now. I grew up in a damn trailer house.

[A]

They want to fake poor even if they weren't because they want. That's the relatable thing.

[E]

Yeah, it's a small town and like, authenticity. And I used to feel like I needed to hide that part of it. So then I found my people here and it was like, I think I'm authentically what some people wish they were, which is interesting. And then just I had to learn to surround myself with people that are better than me. And I try to do that every single day. Just kill my ego. I should be the worst person in the room. And that's how I feel. If I'm worth a damn at all in my town, it's because those people kept making me level up for the last 10 years.

[A]

You're so right. I've said this a lot about people, creatives that move to this town. Most of them are rich or poor. Very rarely is it a middle class kid who moves here that has some stability has went to a pretty good school. Like, you either have to have mom and daddy's money because this job has no stability. There's. You move here, you're just on your own. The wind's blowing. You could be awesome and never make it.

[E]

And that could still be impossible. With mom and dad's money too, I found.

[A]

Yes, but with mom and Dad's, money, there's stability because you've got the money to pay the bills or it's somebody who's completely poor, has nothing to lose in a dream. And, you know, what if they're going to be poor? Okay, I've been poor before. I'm going to keep being poor, but I'm still going to do what I dream of doing while being poor. Yeah. And so it's usually those two kinds of people that move here as a creative, that want to make it as an artist, either got some money or you got no money. And rarely is it in the middle, because in the middle, you're kind of comfortable. And if you're comfortable, it's hard to take yourself to a place that's not comfortable anymore.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think even when people get success that had. We'll just say no money. It's hard once you've made it. And I've. I struggled with this for a while because I started to go, man, I've kind of made it. I don't want to really, you know, do anything to, you know, rattle the cages now. I don't want to lose all this. I. Now I'm past that stage again. But I started to be comfortable because I didn't want to lose what I had. And so, yeah, it's one of two kinds of people. And I can see where that would be intimidating moving here. And it's a bunch of. Well, it's a lot of, like, rich kids who can come and just write all day because they don't have to have a job because they don't have to pay their freaking car insurance.

[E]

Yep.

[A]

And all that stuff's got to be paid first before you can do any. Before you can even go and write songs. Who is here, like, in your class? And I say that, as you know, when I moved here, there were five or six or seven of us who moved here around the same time. Like the Dan and Shay's. That's like my class. We all moved here at the same time. Who moved here kind of when you moved here that you remember?

[E]

Well, I feel like the artist community is something I'm just now trying to tap into. I haven't had a lot of artist friends because we've been running opposite directions at the same speed. And we're also in our own. Like, I don't have. I'm like, good for you. But I'm so focused on my own stuff, I can't even have that kind of. So I had a lot of songwriter friends initially, but Emily Ann Roberts. Do you know her? She. We've just recently become friends, but she moved about the same time. But we've been really good support systems for each other and have very different journeys. She was on the Voice and had the TV show and, like, had a very different journey. But, yeah, we're. And we both kind of are feeling a little bit of a buzz this year around the same time. But I think that 10 year mark is just kind of what I believed is the Bible, because it was some kind of comfort. Even if I was like, I don't know, it was just kind of this mark for me. So I'll. I will be completely honest. The tenure has been a mental breakdown for me because I was like, what. What did I want this year to be?

[A]

What did you want this year to be?

[E]

I don't know. I think. I think I have spent a lot of my journey in Nashville. Somewhere along the way, I let the industry and the town help me make my list of goals and what success is.

[A]

Because you're seeing it around you and what other people are doing.

[E]

Yep. And because people validate certain things. Like, this is an incredible opportunity to me because we come from the same place. I wanted to have a conversation with you, but there are opportunities like this that mean a lot to your label or something and don't fill your cup at all. And that's what I'm in currently is this looking at my whole life and career in a different way. Because I think I've gotten close enough. I've seen the wizard, and I have gotten close enough to know that the glitter is not gold, man.

[A]

It is not at all.

[E]

It is not. But I do think there's incredible beauty in this. And I think there's obviously something in my heart that made me sacrifice everything in the whole world to chase this. I still believe that's there, but I think I've gotten a little distracted on what success or even stability is for me. And so it's been crippling to be honest with myself and be like, sis, you might have gotten it wrong.

[A]

Well, you know what the glitter is? The glitter is fulfillment. And I. And it's hard to think of that when you're just trying to pay the bills.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you can't pay the bills with fulfillment.

[E]

You also can't. I feel like I'm such a control freak that I have, like, had my life bought like this. And you can't accept. Even if financial opportunities were coming, I'm not looking for them. I've already decided they're not coming to me. And that's like, not a. Not a productive mindset.

[A]

What do you mean by that?

[E]

I think it's a protective pessimism. I don't expect to just be like, if I trust the process.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I don't.

[E]

Somebody's going to call me tomorrow and it's going to be a check that's going to pay my mortgage this month. If I decide to let go of everything, that doesn't feel good to me. And I love that. And I have friends that actually have experienced that. But I have this part of my brain that is always going to fight that because my life has not been that way. I've seen that the world is not fair. And just because you work hard for something or you think you deserve something, or you're a good person, nobody gives a. That's not how it works.

[A]

You're right. The only one that does is you.

[E]

Yeah. And that's why I work so hard to depend only on myself. But it's another hard truth I've learned this year is I don't think you can do this by yourself, unfortunately.

[A]

And it's also hard to find the people, though, that can do it with you, that care about you enough to put in the. An effort. Like a real effort, like a real team. That's why my team's been with you for 20 years. Like all my people, they don't. If you come in, you almost rarely leave. Like my co hosts on my radio show, 20 years. Even like Morgan, who's my manager and runs my podcast network. I was speaking at a college here 13 years ago, and she just emailed me from the board, and I was like, yeah, I mean, I was also like, I don't know how old I was, but. And so she came and she was an intern, an assistant producer, executive. But it's like, once you get like five or six of those people that it matters to as well, like, that's where the real currency is. Like, because you can trust them. You can trust that they trust you, and you can trust them, and you know that they'll work for it as well. It's hard to find that.

[E]

How do you deal with the beginning stages of that where you feel like people are just pouring into you? And I mean, for example, like, a manager is getting 15% of what you're doing. But that ain't nothing at the beginning. Like, I struggle so much with people. Cause that's something else is I've had a lot of people hold things over my head in my Life. That's why I'm so independent. And I don't want anyone to do anything for me ever. But I struggle with those champions that come on early and accepting that love and help and investment and belief. Have you ever struggled with that? Or you just found the people that jumped on board and you knew you were going to work until it was beneficial for everybody?

[A]

I don't think I. Well, I don't think anybody jumped on board. Ah. I'm sure everybody has a different story about working with me. And also, I'm sorry I'm so reluctant to let anybody in at all. Like, it's hard to get in. And everybody that's been with me now has for the most part of my whole team is. Plus over 10 years in different capacities. So it's really hard to get in. It's like a gang. I got to jump you in, I got to jump you out. So it's almost like there's got to be something really traumatic that happens for me to believe you even want to actually be here and not just make the money. And then the opposite as well. Like, you really gotta, like, stab my wife for me to fire you. Like, it's one of the two.

[E]

That's how I feel about my marriage was like, because I'm married, which is shocking to me. I did not think you got to have a spouse in this. But I actively tried to just, like, jump, scare him off. I'm like, I'm a pain in the ass.

[A]

That was me and my wife.

[E]

I'm difficult and stubborn, and no one in God's green earth should put up with me, especially when I'm 100,000% committed to this dream and will put it above you every time forever. And I got to be honest about that. But I tried to be like, you don't want this. You don't want this. And he would not go away. And we've been together eight years now, married five.

[A]

Wow.

[E]

And he's the best thing in the whole world. But that. I think that is going to be the same approach, maybe in my business team, is I'm going to be like, you can't handle me. I'm too crazy. No one should put up with me. And they're going to be like, no, I'm in this. You don't scare me.

[A]

That's so unhealthy.

[D]

I know.

[A]

And I do it too. I can. I'll give you another example of a very similar situation. I have a very dear friend of mine that has. He's an excellent artist at Singer, one of the best singers, one of the best guitar players that I know. And he toured for 10 years with me and was actually a really good friend. And I was looking for a position inside of my little internal group, keep a very tight group. And it was a position that he had never done, but he had done a lot of, like, written a lot of songs for TV shows, written a lot of songs for commercials. He does a lot of producing for other artists. But I needed a job that was like that. But for me, it's like all capacities, video, audio. I just needed like a. Create a creative by my side that there wasn't a defined job, except the definition is, man, we just got to figure everything out. And I know I never thought of them for this because he was so overqualified. And I was looking because my guy Reed left and he hit me up and he was like, hey, would you ever consider me for this job? And I was like, I don't think so. I don't think it's you because you don't want to work with me in that capacity. And had every one of my people call him. And I told them all my closest friends that he also knew all my closest friends had him call him and try to convince him not to work with me. I would tell like, Eddie, my best friend who knew him, I said, hey, call him and tell him the worst parts about working with me. I think I had five different people call and convince him not to take the job. And then at the end he called and he was like, dude, I've worked with you for 10 years. I've toured with you. Like, I get it, you're crazy in a way. But, like, I'm good. Let's go. But I did the same thing. I tried to convince him not to work for me because it's like, you don't want to have to be around this all the time because it's insane and I'm insane. And that same guy is your husband. Yeah, we did the same thing. I feel like that's what you did with him. I mean, I feel like you're like, you don't. How can we? You don't want to be with me. But I try to do that in relationships.

[E]

Yeah. I mean, you just expect when you love people, you think they deserve the best in the world. And when you have a poor self image. I 100% am trying to love myself. It's going to take me the rest of my life to figure that out, I think.

[A]

Yeah, me too.

[E]

But when other people love you before you know how to love yourself. It is the most confusing thing in the world.

[A]

You think it's because your dad left? Because I think a lot of it's because my dad left.

[E]

I try not to give that man any damn credit, but the older I get, the more I'm like, those abandonment issues are a large. I have a whole lot of. I got a box full of issues. But I think the abandonment. Abandonment one. Yeah. But I think, again, I don't think I'd be sitting right here. I don't think I would have that. I'm doing it and you gave it. You were the first person to give up on me. So I think there is a part of me that's like proving you wrong.

[A]

I agree. I think two things can be true at the same time. I think it can. Cause I think for me, that's a big part of why I'm here. My dad left when I was five. You know, I lived with my grandma. Some mom left for a bit. Mom, you know, died from drugs, and I know she loved me, but, you know, there's a lot of that. And I think I delivered all. I have all these, you know, weapons because of that. And it's awesome and it's awful. And I think two things can be true at the same time. And I think, like you said, you just try to manage it. You try to walk that an impossible line because you can't walk it right. But it's at least knowing that you can't walk it right that makes it somewhat healthy.

[E]

And people have to want to understand you. That is what my husband Chad has taught me the most is. I mean, I got every kind of, like, letter you could have. Adhd, ocd, all the things. Depression, anxiety. I am, like, all over it, and I feel misunderstood permanently. That's where I turned to music was as a child, having feelings and things was like, well, that's not how that happened, or that's not real. I had my emotions dismissed constantly. And so I started writing diary entries and poetry that eventually turned into songs. Because that piece of paper never talked back and never said, what you're feeling is wrong. So that's where it all started, was having those feelings and that validation.

[D]

The Bobby cast. We'll be right back.

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[D]

Podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

[F]

Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Walley, a double board certified physician.

[D]

And I'm Hari Kondabolu, a comedian and someone who once googled do I have scurvy at 3am on health stuff, we're.

[F]

Talking about health in a different way.

[D]

It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also.

[F]

What our health says about us and the way we're living.

[D]

Like our episode where we look at.

[F]

Diabetes in the United states. I mean 50% of Americans are pre diabetic.

[D]

How preventable is type 2?

[F]

Extremely. Or our in depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

[D]

Oh, it's hard to explain to rest of the world that like your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible. But like you don't even know.

[F]

You don't know.

[D]

You don't know.

[F]

It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in.

[D]

Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

All I know is what I've been told and that to have truth is a whole lie.

[C]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[A]

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[C]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[A]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[C]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[D]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff.

[A]

That y' all said.

[E]

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[C]

From lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[A]

America, y' all better wake the hell up.

[D]

Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[C]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley. Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[E]

In early 1988, federal agents raced to.

[F]

Track down the gang they suspect of.

[E]

Importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia.

[A]

We had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and you name it.

[F]

But what they find is not what they expected.

[A]

Basically, your stay at home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin. They go, is this your daughter? I said, yes.

[D]

They go, oh, you may not see.

[A]

Her for like 25 years.

[E]

Copy. In between a federal investigation and the violent gang who recruited them, the women.

[C]

Must decide who they're willing to protect.

[E]

And who they dare to betray.

[D]

Once I saw the gun, I tried to take his hand and I saw.

[A]

The flash of light.

[F]

Listen to the Chinatown sting on the.

[E]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts.

[B]

Welcome, fellow seekers of the dark. I'm Danny Trejo. Won't you join me in Tales from the Shadows, an ethology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends and lore of Latin America. Take a trip from ghastly encounters with evil spirits to bone chilling brushes with supernatural creatures and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Kaltura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[A]

This is the Bobby Cast. How do you do with praise? Let's say somebody praises you and they're, they're like, hey mate, you're really good. Like how. Wow, you're killing it. How does it make you feel?

[E]

This is so funny that you and I finally get to talk in this time of my life when I'm having a spiral and relooking at everything. But I have imposter syndrome, like most people do. I'm really struggling on how to fill my cup in the praise area because my talent, like if you were to compliment my work ethic and because you.

[A]

Can control your work ethic and resilience.

[E]

And determination because you can control that, then I'm flattered. Same if you compliment my talent. I opened my. I am not scared of anything. I can talk to a fence post. Not shy. My mama was playing the Leanne Rimes version of the national anthem at the rodeo and I was like, turn that tape off. You got the real deal in the flesh right here. Give me a microphone and let me try and sang the national anthem. I have no control I know my voice very well. I've spent a lot of time singing. I never shut up. So I know my, my instrument. But I, I had nothing to do with this gift and songwriting. I think you can learn the craft, but having feelings pour out of me so much that I feel like I'm gonna die if I don't do something with them that's also out of my control. So I just feel like the talent part is such a God given, ethereal thing that it's like, it's like saying, I don't know. It's like compliment. Something you had nothing to do with.

[A]

Is if someone tells you they you're a great singer and a great songwriter to your face. How do you feel? Numb Is that good or bad?

[E]

I think it's bad.

[A]

So you don't accept.

[E]

Plays A small validation for me that, like, I think I'm more excited that they've heard of me.

[A]

What if someone says they don't think you're very good?

[E]

It doesn't hurt me as bad.

[A]

Numb.

[E]

That'll probably get to me before the good, if I'm honest.

[A]

Yeah, that often does. I, I, when people tell me I'm talented, I get offended.

[E]

I do know that because I listen to your stuff and I've heard you do that a million times. And I was like, how am I going to compliment him when I finally meet him? Because he' to fight me. But I am the same. I, I think it is that same, like, humble and like, how we are just.

[A]

I don't know that I'm humble. Man. I'll be honest with you. I don't think I'm humble.

[E]

Really?

[A]

Not really.

[E]

Have you ever been?

[A]

I think I'm humble in some areas. I think I don't allow myself to be humble in the creative space because I think I have control to tell people when I'm good and tell people when I'm bad. And I don't want anybody else telling me anything.

[E]

I think my humbleness might have held me back in some situations because, for example, recently Ashley McBride has become a big mentor of mine. I think she's somebody who holds her integrity really close and I have learned a lot from her. And we got to play the AIMPS together.

[A]

I don't know what that is.

[E]

The association of Independent Music Publishers.

[A]

Okay.

[E]

It's an award show, mostly, like, industry focused. And I haven't got to do a lot of award shows yet, so I got to perform for that one and won an award and it was a big deal. And me and Ashley Were in the same green room getting ready. And she was like, how do you feel about these award shows? And I was like, honestly, I am just so excited to be included. I can't believe I have my name on a green room. I got invited to this. Like, I'm grateful to fricking be here. And she was like, I get that, but I'm gonna pass down some advice that Miranda gave to me. You better start acting like you belong here. She was like, you wouldn't have these opportunities if they weren't meant for you. And the whole, I'm just so happy to be here. You gonna have to lock that up. And we had that conversation earlier this year. And I've been really looking at the way I walk into opportunities lately because I am super confident in at least my ability that I'm giving you. I'm giving it hell. If you put a microphone in front of my face, I have never, ever held back. And if I can find confidence in that, then I think I can, like, believe that I deserve the praise maybe.

[A]

Yeah. I think mine is. I don't want anybody to control any narrative of me at all.

[E]

So you don't want them to even, like, your opinion doesn't matter.

[A]

Don't talk good about me. Don't talk bad about it. I mean, I'll do both. I'll do plenty of both. I'll tell you how good I am. I'll tell you how terrible I am. I don't want anybody saying anything about me.

[E]

What's the good at, though? When it's a subjective thing, how are you able to say, like.

[A]

I'm not saying it's healthy or right, by the way. I'm just saying that. So. I didn't mean to interrupt you. Go ahead.

[E]

No, I mean, that's another thing is, like, even if I feel I am very talented, but do you need the. Like, do I need everyone in the. Why doesn't everyone know who I am? Why am I not rich? Why don't I have a million number ones? Like, it feels like the talent part of it in this industry is such an interesting spot because people just think you're so talented and you should have all of these things when really those things have nothing to do with your talent. What a mind.

[A]

It's a weird Venn diagram of being actually being really good and then being rewarded for the good that everybody thinks you are. Yeah, that's a good question. I don't. There's not an answer to it because there's. There's no formula because I know people that are awesome that for some reason didn't pop through. I know people that are very mid, that have massive careers, and it's crazy. Like, there are people that have a bunch of number ones that I know they're not a very good singer and they have no charisma on stage, but they met the right person. Yeah, they met the right person who needed this type of artist and decided to push them through. And then I have people who I know that are a freaking plus who just never got that break. And then it's the opposite. I know people who are awesome, who got. Who got it, who figured it out. And so I don't know that there is a formula or. I think if there was a formula, all the best, the literal best at what they do, would be the ones that have all the awards. But then I think it's such a. It's a human thing too. Meaning people gotta like you. Like, people have to like you or you're not going to make it. And not even just people in this business, that's a big part of it, but also people that are, like, watching you on social media or they're watching your videos that are, you know, coming, spending money to come to a concert. Like, if they don't like you, you can be the absolute best singer in the world. Like, I was on American Idol for a bunch of years and the best singer never won, but the person that the people liked the most ended up being a really good singer, but it was the most likable person. It's like, you have to be really good in, like, four or five areas. When I won Dancing with the Stars, I was a bad dancer, but people like me the most. And that's such a valuable part of, well, life in general. I don't care if you work at a bank or a dairy farm or here. If people like you, they want to be around you and so they're going to do things for you to hopefully be around you more and help you get to those positions. And so I think that's been a hard lesson for me. It's not just show up and work the hardest than everybody else. It's also, you got to kind of be likable, too, which sucks.

[E]

And let me ask you, like, do you think, oh, I have so many questions. My brain is. I'm so 80, I need to pop another Adderall currently, probably. What did you just say that was.

[A]

You know what's funny about Adderall? I was talking to Brett Eldridge on this about it. Where I had a few strokes, like minor, like ischemic strokes.

[E]

That's not casual.

[A]

It's not. But I was telling him because he's never taken Adderall.

[E]

I'm actually on Ritalin, not Adderall.

[A]

I've never had Ritalin.

[E]

I'm trying some things out.

[A]

I loved Adderall for it, like popped me back. I haven't taken it in maybe years at this point, but man, it popped me back into shape. Did it like it. It stimulated my brain back for the first time after my strokes.

[E]

So how do you take it regularly? Because that's what I find interesting about ADHD is I go to the doctor and I'm like, I can't remember to eat food. I'm losing weight so drastically because that's how the issues I have with my attention and they're like, cool. Start taking this pill every single morning and every night or sometimes I'm phone reminders. My problem is I can't do anything regularly. So now you want me to take three pills a day on top of it. Sounds good.

[A]

It's all phone reminders. It's just tell it to tell it to do that. What's so you take Ritalin Slow release Is Ritalin slow release.

[E]

I started on slow release and now I am on a lower dose that I can take twice a day. Songwriter schedules are touring artists. I know two days are the same for me. I'm not like waking up at the same time every day. If I had a late show and didn't get to my next venue till 3am, I'm sleeping as long as I possibly can. And so I was taking that extended release sometimes at 11am and it was keeping me up forever. So we're trying this now. But man, I'm stubborn and I self sabotage like nobody's business because if I go ahead and make things hard for myself, there's a comfort in that for me, which I know is insane. But like, I expect things to be hard and if I control the hard, then somehow that's a mind thing I've made up. And so I sabotage myself.

[A]

Is your husband in the business?

[E]

No, he's a mobile mechanic. And he is that awesome for you? Oh my gosh. But also horrible because you have a person who is just using basic knowledge of the world and doesn't have the subtle things that Nashville and the music industry have taught us. So when something, I mean, any contract you sign in this town is stupid. It makes no sense in business if you take out the potential things that signing a Record deal or something could do for you. If you're just talking to somebody who doesn't know about music, that is the dumbest thing you could do. So that is the. The worst thing about having him is he does pull me out of. When I get in this, like, Nashville world, he's like, does that even make sense? Or is that just the way they. Why did we do things that way? But mostly he is. He's super quiet. We're opposites in the best way. I'm an Enneagram 8. Do you know your Enneagram 8? Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

We're either going to be best friends.

[A]

Or do challenge everything forever.

[E]

I challenge everything, and I can actually argue points I don't even agree with.

[A]

I do it all the time. Sometimes I commit to it, and I'm like, I know I'm wrong, but, man, I'm already committed.

[E]

But we love a healthy debate. I want to just have friends that I can just be like, let's pick something, go at it and be like, all right, see you later. But my husband is not that at all. He is so passive. And he doesn't. I don't mean to say he doesn't care about. He just wants me to be happy and chase my dream and supports me. So he doesn't. You ha you. It's funny, this town. Like, he's been on tour with me this year, stepping in as my tm. I'm still. I'm getting big opportunities now and don't have the team in place that I need. So we're just trying to do the best that we can. And I've had people be like, your husband on the road with you is weird. Or like, you can't have your husband around this. Like, everyone's gonna think he makes all your decisions for you. And, like, well, who cares? Cause he don't. He is my partner in life and supports me, and if I want his opinion, I'll get it. But this is my business and I'm running it, and I don't care what you think. He's also, like, an emotional support human on the road, and we're going to states. I've never. He's from Arkadelphia. We met when I was in school at Henderson, and we've never been to Maine, and you know all these places, and we're getting to do that together. And so that's another. Like, it's just. It's constantly fighting what I think this has to be like. And for the first time ever, I'm like, What. What if I could just make all my own damn rules?

[A]

So my wife is great about sometimes separating me from the. Because it's not reality, but from what I think is reality.

[E]

Yes.

[A]

And her going, hey, that. That's not real world. You. You. You know, I know you're concerned about this, but that's actually not really what matters the most. Like, there are fundamental things that we should care about, and this is not one of them. You're spending way too much time invested in something that doesn't matter a lick or even goals. Like, I met my wife, and, you know, she has no interest in this business. She does not want to be public. She is, you know, somebody who comes from, like, she did, like, oil and gas commodity. So everything with her is. She's very, very smart, but linear. And so I am not linear at all. Like, nothing. Nothing about this job is linear.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

I can't do something and just know if I do a good job that it's going to be wildly successful. You got to do a good job and hope. Or sometimes you do a bad job and it turns out wildly successful. There's really no rhyme or reason to a lot of this stuff. And especially when it comes to family, when it comes to things that will be here in 10 years. She resets me a lot where she's like, you are investing a lot of emotional energy in something that's not going to matter to you in six days, and you're giving it a month's worth of emotional energy, and it is not going to matter to you in anything more than six days. And for me, because she's not in this world, that's been great. Now, there are times where it's frustrating because she just doesn't understand, like, my brain and why it works the way it does. But it's like a 93% success rate at our relationship and her not being in the business helping me sometimes recenter myself.

[E]

Yeah. And I think. I mean, I've written songs about how I think in. I've seen romantic relationships go wrong every possible way they could. I ain't seen a lot of them go right. But I have learned in my own marriage. I don't think your spouse is supposed to be your everything. You're not gonna get everything you need out of this one person. And so I have my music community of people I can talk to. And when they're talking, I know they actually get a certain part of it. But, you know, when I want to ask them certain questions, I know they're just as Their view is as tarnished as mine is. So then I have my friends who are not in music at all. But, like, I think it's just about having that community around you and not putting that pressure on your spouse to be your absolute. Every kind of intellectual stimulation and advice like you could ever need. Because I don't think I can't be that for him. He's got to have people to explain engines to. Because I try to act like I know what's happening and I don't. But. Yeah, I mean, it's crucial to have those people in our life. And I don't. I don't know about you, but I definitely did not think. I mean, I had chosen to be lonely for this entire thing because.

[A]

Oh, I never thought I was gonna get married. Never. No, because I didn't think anyone. I thought people would want to marry me just because if I got.

[E]

There's that. There's that. What would you say? You're not humble. Here's an example. Well, listen, I thought everyone would. I didn't think I'd have trouble bagging a girl. Like, they were like.

[A]

I didn't. Because I was starting to get rich, and I was starting to get fam.

[E]

Famous. Well.

[A]

And that's when it got easy. And so I. Oh. And so then it's, like, experienced that, yet it's. You know, it's probably. It's different. It's different. And I was like, oh, somebody will want to marry me, but they'll be never. There won't be anybody that wants to marry me for, like, me.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, the actual human part of me.

[E]

Because we're ugly inside and out.

[A]

Then once I found it, I was like, why? What's wrong with you to want to marry me or want to be with me? I. I struggle with that for a long time.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I was like, you're actually awesome. Why in the world would you want to be with me whenever you can, like, see the real parts of me? And that. That was a difficult. Like, a seminar I had to, like, put myself into. And then it's like, well, if she loves me, why do I not love me? Like, there's got to be something here that's redeemable because I don't feel like anything is really that redeemable about me because I've just been doing it by myself, very selfishly. And not selfishly as I want to keep everything, but, like, it was only. I only cared really about me because I was the only one to care about. But, yeah, I think her her not being creative brained, like, as a job helped me tremendously. Like, family. I never had a family, so her coming in with a strong family and like, hey, this is important to me. And I fought it hard. I thought even after we got married, like, hey, I'm just gonna go off for a couple days, go tour. She's like, well, no, no, no. We talk about this stuff.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Like we both have something to say. You know, we, we don't just run off.

[E]

She cares about it.

[A]

And I, like, would push back hard. Like, no, no, I'm an adult. Those type of situations.

[E]

That's our eight. You can't. Oh, God. Don't try to hold us down.

[A]

Yeah, I challenge everything. And now she will challenge me in the opposite direction that she actually wants because she knows I will push back. But the actual way I'm pushing is the way that she wants. So she'll just. It's. But I do that with her being late.

[E]

Places, they can spin us around. Yeah, that's the worst. When you get so vulnerable with somebody, I'm like, you can spin me around.

[D]

Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.

[E]

And the smell never leaves. I don't know what to do. I'm always in the dark. The sweat and dead shark smells like a dark car. I'm downy rinsing tonight.

[D]

Downy rinse fights stubborn odors in just one wash.

[A]

When impossible odors get stuck in, rinse it out.

[D]

On the podcast health stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

[F]

Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wali, a double board certified physician.

[D]

And I'm Hari Kondabolu, a comedian and someone who once googled do I have scurvy at 3am on health stuff, we're.

[F]

Talking about health in a different way.

[D]

It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also.

[F]

What our health says about us and the way we're living.

[D]

Like our episode where we look at.

[F]

Diabetes in the United states. I mean, 50% of Americans are pre diabetic.

[D]

How preventable is type 2?

[F]

Extremely. Or our in depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

[D]

Oh, it's hard to explain to rest of the world that like your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible. But like, you don't even know.

[F]

You don't know.

[D]

You don't know.

[F]

It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in.

[D]

Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get Your podcasts.

[A]

All I know is what I've been told and that to have truth is a whole lie.

[C]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[A]

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[C]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[A]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[C]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[D]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff.

[A]

That y' all said.

[E]

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[C]

From Lava For Good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[D]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[C]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[E]

I'm Eva Longoria. And I'm Maite Gomez Rejohn.

[F]

And on our podcast Hungry for History.

[E]

We mix two of our favorite things. Food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells and they called these ostrakan to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the ostracon. And because we've got a very mi.

[F]

Casa es su casa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by.

[A]

Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the El Golf of Mexico. Forever and ever.

[E]

It blows me away how progressive Mexico.

[F]

Was in this moment.

[E]

They had land reform, they had labor.

[F]

Rights, they had education rights.

[E]

Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Kultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[D]

I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of Heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart.

[E]

How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again.

[D]

And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old. And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke. And he got down.

[A]

And I remember feeling kind of a.

[D]

Surge of like, okay, this is power. Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother try to solve my problems through hypnotism.

[A]

We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're, like, super charming all the time, being more able to look people in the eye, not always.

[D]

Hide behind a microphone. Listen to heavyweight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

And we're back on the Bobby cast. What's been going good for you?

[E]

Well, exposure. I think that's what I've tried to set my sights on, because I do believe in my gift and my talent and my story. So I feel like at this point, I'm trying to get it to people. I know it's not for everybody, but I know it's for a lot of people, and they just don't even know it exists, is how I feel. I've been, like, screaming my name from the rooftops trying to find my people, so feels like I've been given a few industry opportunities lately, specifically that have put me in front of a lot of people. And that is validation. I will say that. That getting to play. Like, we got to go on tour with Luke Bryan this summer, which was the biggest opportunity I've gotten touring 20,000 people a night that did not come to see me. Half of them could care less. I'm up there. But it is a chance for me to. If anybody is listening, to get them and to see the people that. Then you have a physical thing to hang on to. Like, I see those people go follow me on socials, and they all start commenting. I saw you in so and so. And I saw you in so and so and so. That has been a something I can actually hold on to lately where I'm like, okay, if I can get in front of somebody, I can win them over. And, like. But obviously that's discouraging, too, when you're like, I gotta build them one at a time. This is gonna take me. I'm gonna be on my walker at 80 years old. Like, finally I have a sustainable audience.

[A]

Luke's awesome, though, huh?

[E]

Luke is a wild man. Luke brought us on stage for our first night to sing with him. It was me, George, which, thank God, George is.

[A]

I didn't realize that was. That's how George well, you guys might know each other a lot of ways. I didn't realize that's how you guys know each other.

[E]

George and I wrote. Have written songs together for several years, but he was good buddies with my producer and one of my best friends, Paul Sykes, who also wrote a bunch of Matt Stell stuff. But George was out there, and Cole Goodwin and Luke wouldn't tell us what song we were singing before we went out and was just, like, being so funny, like, you guys better get ready. I'm about to throw you in the fire. And so everyone's just kind of like, oh. And that's. Again, I'm grateful for the resilience, because I was like, luke, Brian, I have been waiting on this moment my whole damn life. You do whatever you think you need to do. You're not going to scare me or embarrass me. I'm finna blow your mind. Let's go. And luckily, I know just about every song that's ever existed. I'm. That's where a lot of my common sense was supposed to be, I'm afraid. But we got out there and we did pick up man.

[A]

Like Joe Diffie pick up, man.

[E]

Yeah. And nobody knew what verse. We were all just like. I mean, can you imagine? Like, it's chaos and there's 20,000 people screaming, and Luke Bryan, who you haven't even met, is here, and he just looks at you and you're like, all right, take the verse. We did that one we did, courtesy of the red, white and blue. And he, like, lifts me up and puts me on a speaker and has me do the big note. And I'm just like, I'm ready. I'm ready. And then he goes into Living on a Prayer. Bon Jovi and George Burge and Cole Goodwin both look at me and panic and are like, I don't know it. I don't know this one. And I'm like, step aside, boys.

[A]

You played that one many times.

[E]

And I got my fringe skirt on, and I'm like, here I go. And me and Luke just, like, rocked it, and it was all out of body. But that's the only way this stuff comes to me, is I get no prep. I don't get to, like. I could knock it out of the park if I could be prepared for the opportunities. But that's never how they come to me. They are like, you better be ready, and you better just believe that it ain't gonna be perfect, but you're meant for the opportunity when it hits you. And so that Luke tour was like that. And I, I studied him so close. And you talk about a crew that's like, been together a long time and.

[A]

So really good people.

[E]

That's where I'm at, is it's important to know how to build your team and especially when you have the personalities we do. Like, I, I am difficult in a lot of ways. I have really high expectations for myself and that transfers to the people around me. And I don't know how that works out for me because I can't expect everyone around me to have the same absolute insanity work ethic. But I do have to make sure I, like, have my people that match me in the same way. I, I guess you have found something like that in your team that you've built.

[A]

Did you ever do the bar thing where you just sang all the covers all the time?

[E]

Nope. I started chasing a publishing deal as soon as I got here because I was in a friend group of people who never did the Broadway thing. They were session musicians and staff songwriters. And I was convinced if I got down on Broadway, it was going to take me away from my original career and that I would get sucked into it, which now I don't. I think everybody has their own path. I don't think there's anything wrong with Broadway. I think those are some of the best performers you're ever gonna see. Cause they have done it, they could do it in their sleep. They're entertaining a crowd, a party crowd every day. So I think there are skills you can only learn on Broadway. But yeah, I just, I worked. I folded panties at Victoria's Secret instead of playing cover gigs and built my catalog of songs.

[A]

Which one of these songs? I was your. Your eps, Your name. It's self taught, right? Self titled. Which one of the songs. And maybe they're in different places. Has. Has the most traction. And are they different? Because sometimes it, you know, it'll. Something will blow up on Tick Tock. It really won't do much on Instagram, but it'll stream. I don't know, like, where, where's all that sit?

[E]

Well, that's the thing is it depends where, where the traction is. Like, my mom called me two days ago and goes, how's the EP doing? And I was like, in what context? Because I don't even know how to answer that these days.

[A]

And that was even a hard question to ask because.

[E]

No, I know what you mean.

[A]

It can be. There can be a. We'll just do a song. There can be a song like Mr. Fix it, right?

[E]

Yeah. Mr. Fix it was a tick tock pop off for sure.

[A]

That crushes. And you're like, man, I really thought it would do better, but streams don't reflect it. Yeah, right.

[E]

But I had 3,000, you know, UGCs within two hours of posting that song with me singing it in my car before I ever recorded it for the first time. Like that kind of engagement. But it doesn't translate to streams. And then my song, I better go off. The EP I hear just got added to I heart country's Women of Country, which will be.

[A]

That's me.

[E]

My first time to have a song.

[A]

Played on you're welcome radio.

[E]

Yeah. Well, thank you, sir. That is a gigantic deal for me. And so that song is showing. It's, you know, raising a hand. The highway just added it to on the horizon. This is my first song to ever have on the highway. And I've been beating these doors down for 10 years in this town, so.

[A]

Isn't it crazy? One can do one place and another does another. But currency's all eyeballs and earballs at this point. Like, it doesn't matter how you get them.

[E]

That drives me insane.

[A]

Doesn't matter how you get them.

[E]

You gotta. It's gotta be cool and like.

[A]

Or you can be so not cool that it's cool. Like, that's also cool.

[E]

I think I just have to stop caring.

[A]

Yes.

[E]

So much. And I'm almost there.

[A]

And I read Amy Poehler's book once, and she was like, yeah, I really made it once I stopped caring that I made it. And I was like, I think about that all the time because I can't. I can get close to not caring and just be like, eff it, I don't care. But I can't get there.

[E]

But is that even healthy for people like us if we. If I stop caring, I think I'm.

[A]

Dead in the water if I stop caring. Like, I have to have ankle surgery coming up in a couple weeks. And I'm like, you know what? Because I stay pretty active and work out. I'm like, I'm. Who cares? I'm not gonna work out at all because I'm gonna have ankle surgery. And I'm after, like, a month where I'm not doing anything. So, like, I don't even want to walk anywhere now. Not because my ankle. Because I'm like, that's too much exercise. Like, when I don't care about something at all, it's like, I don't even. I don't think I. So if I stop caring, I Think I just won't do anything.

[E]

Yeah. That part of our personality is black and white. All or nothing. We don't. Which is good about us but also bad if we have.

[A]

Are you have addictive personality?

[E]

Oh yeah. Yeah. But luckily I haven't tried any hard drugs or I would really like them.

[A]

Me too. We should do them together.

[E]

I'm down.

[A]

I got some heroin. I bring it in for the first time for both of us.

[E]

I think we should do meth or something to nod to our art.

[A]

Not to all the trailers, the. And campers that blew up from where we're from.

[E]

I am proud that we both made it out without a meth addiction. That is.

[A]

You know, I understand what's. You know, the wild thing about that is when people talk about the opioid crisis, like it's to me, like I get it. I understand why and how people get addicted to opioids. They're cheap. Life sucks. And why would you not make your life feel good for a couple minutes cheaply when life sucks so bad?

[E]

Especially when you're doctor prescribed it to you because you had a surgery and then they are making money and like there's a whole crooked system. But that's the kind of stuff I make music about. Like that is why my story is so important and why I feel so convicted to keep writing songs and get them out to people and do all this frou frou glam and part of this that I hate. I'm a horrible girl. I hate all of that showman politician stuff. But I believe I got something to say. And I believe I can make people feel understood or less alone or something that I'm searching for. And so I think that's somehow the motivation. But I sing about that stuff. I have a song called Leave that's begging my dad to leave my mom never ever look back. Just take your shit and get gone. And I thought that was so personal. And people are able to put all their own stories into it. And I sing about the drug addiction. You know, that's. I have friends that were born into it and had no chance in hell of ever not becoming an addict. There was no way unless they took off on foot and never came back. They were born into it and there was no way around it.

[A]

When you say that I had one of those type moments when I wrote my first book. And I wrote a lot about different parts of my life growing up. And I was. There's a fine line between sharing and being embarrassed of it. And I wrote some stuff and I really had to consider if I wanted to put it in. But I wanted to be completely honest with my story. So I put it in. I felt like it wouldn't have represented me as a whole package had I not put these certain stories in the book. And a lot of it was my mom's drug abuse and a lot of the situations that happened from that. Not even just the drugs. And I was like, man, I don't people to feel sorry for me either. But it turns out it was the exact opposite. The things I thought nobody would relate to. It wasn't even. They exactly lived the same life or had the same shared experience, but it was very similar. And they'd say, hey, I read your book. You know what really struck me? And it would be that one or two things I'd be really. I was almost embarrassed about writing that I thought nobody would relate to. Either they would think I was weird or they would feel sorry for me. I didn't want either. And it turns out that was the most relatable thing that I could have written. And that was a real learning lesson for me because I did it and it felt really uncomfortable. But then. And I thought nobody relates except everybody. Everybody that I would talk to be like, that's like the main thing. So when you say that about songs and you're going, man, that feels super personal. And people are like they've assigned their own story to your songs. Very similar.

[E]

Yeah. And even the. The validation you get because sometimes it's not even about the song or like. Like I talk about how your journey inspired me. That is something I'm starting to learn. Is the bravery that I have to potentially fail at this. Over and over again. People have told me that inspires them that when they're like, I'm scared to take this tiny step. Like your story and your just dream chasing and audacity has inspired me to ask for a raise at my job for a random example in my head. But like it is way bigger than you and I could even fathom the way that we are truly able to affect people. And that's an enormous amount of pressure that can crush me on some days. And some days it's like this is magic. We truly have a magical power if we can figure out how to harness it.

[A]

We have perspective. And we didn't want it, but we got it. Yep, we would. I wouldn't have signed up for it. I wouldn't have gone up. You know, everybody about to be born. Here's what's up. Sign over to this line.

[E]

You can see a dash of abandonment issues.

[A]

I think I would have not signed up for any of that. But, you know, we took what was handed to us, and so far, you know what they say. We. What are they.

[E]

We're making lemonade.

[A]

Well, there's another one a little grosser than that, but yes. Well, look, it's super awesome to get to spend some time with you again. You come highly recommended. Not from people going, which is a great singer, because everybody's a great singer. Here you are. You know that. You're really good. You're great, even. But like people that really like you. And like I said, you have to be liked. And my friends that I trust, George is one of them. There's a few of them. I don't need to say them all here. But we're like, hey, you should talk to me. She's really amazing. And so, yeah, I see it now.

[E]

I was about to say, what's your verdict? You're one of the most honest people I know.

[A]

My verdict doesn't matter is what my verdict is. But, like, I'm rooting for you. That's my verdict.

[E]

That's amazing.

[A]

I'm rooting for you because, man, it sucks and it's hard and it's awesome and all of that, all that can be true. I think my wife taught me that the multiple things can be true at once.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I definitely did not think that it was. It was only one way. I was going to assign myself to the way. Whatever it was, was the way, and that's it. But multiple things can be true at once, and it's really hard and it's really awesome. And some days more than others, and both can be true at the same time. Yeah. Congratulations on everything.

[E]

Thank you so much for having me.

[A]

Super cool.

[E]

Amazing.

[A]

What's up? So what's. What's. I hate this question because I get asked it and there's not a good answer to it, but I'm gonna ask it to you because it's miserable. Like, what's. What's next?

[E]

Well, we're gonna keep touring our butts off, and anybody who will call me and take me on tour, I'm gonna be out there. We're going to C2C the first time. So we'll go overseas and. Super excited about that. I want to make my first record so desperately.

[A]

Does this not count? Because an ep. Who cares about records?

[E]

This is. I care about a record.

[A]

Well, that's because. Oh, this is perfect. We're gonna do five more minutes on this because why do you care about a record? Because you've always cared about a record.

[E]

Because I care about having your attention for more than three and a half minutes.

[A]

Because.

[E]

Because I got a bigger story to tell, and I feel like the small gaps of, like. And I know our attention spans, I. You can't keep my attention for longer than that. Like, But I think it's.

[A]

Have you always wanted to do a record for 15 years? Yeah.

[E]

I want to leave a record behind.

[A]

Okay. I've always wanted to host an award show. My wife came to me, and I would. I would just get. I want to, like, stab my eyeballs out with a fork. When I wouldn't get the job hosting the awards or I would get a job, they'd pull it or, you know, with the ACMs, I'm like, Reba's right hand man, but I'm not the host. And my wife's like, I know that's been your thing for, like, 15 years.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

But you do. You've done things way bigger than that. And you're still so assigned to that because it's what you, like, attached yourself to 15 years ago. And you feel like if you change that, that you're somehow a failure. Like, you got to let that go. I'm not saying don't make a record. It'd be awesome to make a record.

[E]

Is your wife looking for another therapy?

[A]

So I think she has to give me therapy because I go crazy. Like, I'm constantly.

[E]

She sounds amazing.

[A]

I'm constantly miserable and going, I'm miserable. It's over. And with the life you built, I'm washed up. That's what's crazy is it's over, all of that. But I was so assigned to. I'm gonna host a freaking award show, and if I don't, I suck. And if you don't ever make a record and you make songs, that's awesome.

[E]

You're right. You're 100. Right.

[A]

But make a record. Like, I still want to host an award show, and you'll make a record, and it'll be great, but it ain't all about the record. You've wanted to make a record for a long time, and you've attached your success to making that freaking record. It ain't about the record.

[E]

No. My goal for the next year is to learn to like myself half as much as a whole lot of people do and believe some of the nice things they say about me. Keep being honest and vulnerable in my music more than I'm. I feel like I have been so much. But I think I've actually been really holding back because I'm in the same way you were. Like, I'm terrified to let that ugly out because I show a lot of my ugly. And I'm already like, people acknowledge the rough around the edges, but I'm like, no, I could really scare you.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

But I got to tap into that. I want to keep getting less and less of a filter and being unapologetic and honest and in every facet of that, I want. I want to make money. I want to not be worried about paying my bills, and I want to be able to take care of people I love if they need me. And I want to afford the ability to take time off if I need it. Like, those are my goals. And so I think I. You're right. I need to. I need to focus on those instead of. It's a number one song, it's a record, it's an award show, it's somebody in this town telling me I matter. I'm in the process of shifting all of those goals.

[A]

You'll never shift totally away from it, but at least having the awareness that that shouldn't always be the focus because I'm the same. I still want all the same stuff, but I. When I don't get it, I can go. You've assigned too much value to.

[E]

It took me 10 years, but I'm getting there.

[A]

Oh, you're in 10 more years, you'll be like, man, I was such. You're like, I was so naive and 10 years ago. I'm proud of you. I'm proud for you. I'm not proud of you. I'm proud for you. There's. There's a difference. And make a record. I can't wait for you to make a record. But that. I hope that's not what you're assigned to as far as, like, that success is making a record.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you made a record. You got five songs.

[E]

Yeah, I'm super proud of it.

[A]

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Good to talk with you. Everybody likes you. That I know. And so I like you, and I like you now, but sometimes people come in here and I like them, and then I leave, and I'm like, no, that wasn't even really them. If you walk out here with a British accent, I'm gonna totally feel played.

[E]

I was about to say, if you check out anything I do ever, I think you're gonna know exactly who I am. I don't if. I would be a lot further along if I knew how to Fake it. I believe that.

[A]

I used to try. I just couldn't remember the lies I was telling, so I had to stop lying.

[E]

You could just see it all. It's a physical reaction when I'm having to fake it. That's why I'm horrible in this industry, is it's like, go schmooze. This dinner is just about getting them to like you.

[A]

Did you do radio tour thing?

[E]

Loosely. Over the last two years. Every show I've played, we've made. I kind of love that stuff, Bobby. I'm actually. I'm a people person.

[A]

That's. I'm not a people person, but I.

[E]

Want to be real with them. I don't want. I don't want you. You're not going to sit here and just lie to me and bullshit me and me do that back. I can't do that. But I can connect with anybody on anything. And so that's why I have this naive thing that, like, I can talk to a radio person and be like, I intern at a radio station. I went to school for radio. Like, what brought you to this? You got the same crazy I do. And somehow a passion you're chasing. Let's bond on that. But you got to fight people because they have their, like, thing put up where it's. I don't know. People. People can only be as honest with you as they are with themselves. And that is the biggest thing I have learned in the political networking part of this. So I'm not good at that. And, I mean, you got who you are today. That's who I am.

[F]

And.

[E]

And I know that with you, and that's what I respect about you. And so when you say. When you say a compliment or something, actually, it does have more weight because I know you don't just throw that stuff around.

[A]

Well, keep going. That's all. Keep going. It's awesome.

[E]

Thank you.

[A]

You. I think you're going to continue to be an inspiration to a lot of people who are thinking about doing this and end up doing this because they saw someone like you do this that didn't come from a place where it was offered. Yeah, there was no offer.

[E]

I have no reason to believe this would work out for me. I have no reason to believe I can do this.

[A]

All right, I'll be. I'll be watching.

[E]

Keep watching, buddy.

[A]

Thanks, man.

[D]

Thanks for listening to a Bobbycast production.

[A]

Hey, it's Bobby Bones here. When you're traveling with family, it can be a circus. Mom wakes up at 5am nephew stay up till midnight and your dog. He just wants a yard to play in. Booking.com makes it easy to find a stay that's right for everyone, whether it's a vacation rental or a space to spread out or a hotel where someone else makes the breakfast. Find exactly what you're booking for booking.com booking yeah, that's booking.com booking yeah.

[B]

Here we have the Limu Emu in.

[A]

Its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu. Is that guy with the binoculars watching us? Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates excludes Massachusetts.

[C]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unstable. Solved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[D]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[C]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. And to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[A]

Michael Lewis here. My best selling book the Big Short tells the story of the buildup and burst of the US housing market back in 2008. A decade ago, the Big Short was made into an Academy Award winning movie. And now I'm bringing it to you for the first time as an audiobook narrated by yours truly. The Big Short Story. What it means to bet against the market and who really pays for an unchecked financial system is as relevant today as it's ever been. Get the Big Short now at Pushkin FM Audiobooks or wherever audiobooks are sold.

[D]

I'm Jonathan Goldstein and on the new season of Heavyweight. And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke. A man who robbed a bank when he was 14 years old and a centenarian rediscovers a love lost 80 years ago.

[E]

How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again?

[D]

Listen to heavyweight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[E]

This is an iHeart podcast.