FEELING THINGS - Are You a Hummingbird or Jackhammer? The Answer Could Help Find Your Passion (Couch Talks)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Bobby Bones Show – "FEELING THINGS: Are You a Hummingbird or Jackhammer? The Answer Could Help Find Your Passion" (Couch Talks)

Date: May 14, 2026
Hosts: Amy & Kat

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Couch Talks" from The Bobby Bones Show centers on the anxiety and pressures around "finding your passion"—especially as it relates to young adults, parents, and people at all stages of life. Inspired by an Elizabeth Gilbert concept, Amy and Kat explore whether people are "hummingbirds" (those who flit from interest to interest) or "jackhammers" (those who develop one intense passion). The hosts share listener emails and voicemails, swap beauty recommendations, discuss generational shifts in parenting, and weave in their personal journeys with passion, curiosity, and motherhood.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Q&A and Lighthearted Chatter (03:19-13:02)

• Beauty Product Recommendations:

  • Whitney shares her experience with Jones Road Miracle Balm and "What the Foundation."
  • Kat discusses her move to Merit makeup and Ilia's tinted serum.
  • The hosts talk about the challenge of color-matching, face tanning mists vs. self-tanners, and navigating spray tans.
  • Notable Quote:

    “At times, color matching overwhelms me. And then do I have a spray tan? Do I not? Not spray tan. Professional. But my – my face mist.” – Amy (06:23)

• Sunscreen Talk:

  • Kat details her struggle to find an easy-to-apply mineral sunscreen during pregnancy.
  • Both discuss the effort and frustration of applying mineral products, prompting listeners for recommendations.

• Generational Changes Around Period Talk:

  • Corinne shares an email about more open conversations with her daughters about periods, compared to the secretive approach in older generations.
  • Cute, humorous anecdotes about "the period fairy" and brainstorming ways to teach tampon usage (with a watermelon!).
  • Memorable Moment:

    “She looked at me and said, ‘Can you just buy a watermelon, drill some holes in it and then we can shove the tampons into practice?’... Not quite the same thing.” – Amy reading Corinne’s email (18:03)

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2. Naming Traditions and Female Empowerment (20:03-23:11)

• Voicemail from Heather (Canada, age 53):
  Heather encourages passing on one's own name to children—something traditionally more common for men, but just as meaningful for women.

  • Kat debates naming her daughter after herself, questioning tradition and considering the message to her future daughter.
  • Amy shares her own experience with family middle names, notably "Elizabeth," which has been passed down generations.

• Key Quote:

  “But men do it... That’s why, honestly, it’s been growing on me because it sounds really good with the first name we picked. I hope you do it just for some woman, female empowerment.” – Amy (21:13)

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3. Hummingbirds vs. Jackhammers – Rethinking the Search for Passion (23:16-41:44)

The Catalyst: Elizabeth Gilbert's Talk

• Kat recounts hearing author Elizabeth Gilbert (Eat, Pray, Love) reflect on a letter from a woman who felt worse after a "find your passion" talk, leading Gilbert to reevaluate how she frames passion.

Two Models for Passion:

• Jackhammers: Focused obsessively on one passion—efficient, driven, sometimes rigid.

  • “We don’t look up and we don’t veer and we’re just focused on that until the end of time. It’s efficient. You get a lot done. But we tend to be obsessive and fundamentalists…” – Kat reading Gilbert, (32:48)

• Hummingbirds: Flit from interest to interest, cross-pollinating ideas and experiences, often anxious about not having "one true calling."

  • “Hummingbirds may feel anxious about not immediately finding their passion, they shouldn’t feel pressure to change. They create incredibly rich, complex lives…” – Kat reading Gilbert, (33:12)

Letting Curiosity Lead

• Gilbert's advice: Let go of anxiety about finding one fixed passion and follow curiosity instead—trusting it will lead to fulfillment.
  • “If you can let go of the passion and follow your curiosity, your curiosity might just lead you to your passion.” – Kat reading Gilbert, (34:30)

Personal Reflections

• Kat describes relating deeply as a hummingbird and feeling liberated by hearing this framework; Amy admits her degree path didn’t define her life.
• Both discuss societal pressure for teens (and adults) to have life figured out, and how that's shifting with current generations (trade schools, flexible career paths).
• Notable Quote:

  “To be able to read this to somebody and then be like, ‘Oh, I didn’t know there was another way!’ ... if we let ourselves be that type of person, you’ll end up better off than trying to force yourself to figure out this one true passion.” – Kat (38:30)

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4. Takeaways, Parental Encouragement, and Social Change (40:05-42:08)

• Both hosts agree: The world needs both hummingbirds and jackhammers—one is not superior to the other.

• Emphasis on encouraging curiosity and honoring the right fit for each person, rather than imposing a single ideal.

• Listener Takeaway:

  “Be curious, and if that leads you to the jackhammer, go for it. And if that leads you to fulfillment, yes… But also, this is just opening up another way that, like, if you don’t have this one passion, that’s not bad… That just means that you are this other type of person.” – Kat (40:32)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments With Timestamps

• On Makeup Mishaps:

  “I would just do it as part of my nighttime routine, like my final step before I would go to bed… but it just sort of sad. My hairline and my brows would be sad colored.” – Amy (07:29)

• On Passing Down Names:

  “But men do it… That’s why it’s been growing on me… I hope you do it just for some woman, female empowerment.” – Amy (21:13)

• On Career Anxiety:

  “When I went to School. And this wasn’t like my parents doing this or anything. I think it’s just the world. I felt like I needed to know what my major was going to be and what I was going to do after school… and that’s a lot to ask an 18 year old.” – Kat (25:50)

• On Hummingbirds and Jackhammers:

  “If you can let go of the passion and follow your curiosity, your curiosity might just lead you to your passion.” – Kat, quoting Elizabeth Gilbert (34:30)

• On Allowing Multiple Paths:

  “Honestly, my child can be whatever she wants. She can be the jackhammer… But I just have a feeling if she’s coming from me, she’s probably not going to be.” – Kat (41:44)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:19–13:02]: Emails, makeup/skincare routines, sunscreen talk, period anecdotes
• [20:03–23:11]: Listener voicemail on passing down names/generation themes
• [23:16–41:44]: Main discussion: Hummingbirds vs. Jackhammers, passion, curiosity, parenthood
• [40:05–42:08]: Takeaways, encouragement, concluding thoughts

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Conclusion

With humor, vulnerability, and curiosity, Amy and Kat challenge the idea that everyone must have "one true calling." They advocate for both the hummingbirds and the jackhammers of the world, providing comfort and encouragement to listeners across generations. Their candid discussion offers support for parents, students, and anyone wrestling with questions of fulfillment or identity—reminding everyone that sometimes, following your curiosity leads you right where you’re meant to be.

Transcript

[Kat]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Podcast Announcer]

Guaranteed Human Amazon Health AI presents painful

[Amy]

thoughts I I can't stop scratching my downtown. Mm, yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown.

[Bowen Yang]

Some things you'd rather type than say out loud. There's no question too embarrassing for Amazon Health AI. Chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24.

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Amy]

life here is gonna work, isn't it? We'll make it work.

[Bowen Yang]

Starring Kelly Riley Legacy is a beautiful

[Kat]

thing, but only if it survives.

[Podcast Announcer]

Cole Hauser what's going to work? Ed Harris family is the only thing worth fighting for. And Annette Benning I can make this

[Kat]

a lot harder for all y' all NPCs.

[Podcast Announcer]

The Dutton Ranch new series now streaming on Paramount. Plus support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you backtest it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc, SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this

[Bowen Yang]

is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Research with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We all know the feeling when life gets really busy. Taking care of yourself can feel impossible. That's why Premier Protein shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make. It's not just for fitness, it's for getting after life. Premier Protein powers me to say yes to more Find your favor [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R protein.com while we hope Couch Talks can

[Kat]

be a tool that helps and supports wherever you are in life, Couch Talks does not serve as a replacement or substitute for therapy or any mental health services.

[Podcast Host Intro]

If you ever have feelings and you just want some, maybe a cat got you covered like a num brother. Ladies and fellas, we just follow in the spirit where it tell us from the real Stu stuff to the chill stuff and the in between, sometimes the best thing you can do is just stop and feel things. This is Feeling Things with Amy and Kat.

[Amy]

Happy Thursday. Welcome to Couch Talks, our Q A episode of the Feeling Things podcast. I'm Amy.

[Kat]

And I'm Kat.

[Amy]

And we've got some emails to run through and then also a voicemail before we get into our main topic of conversation. But first up is from Whitney. Hi, Amy and Kat. Quick message. But first, I love listening to you too. I wanted to let you know that Jones Road beauty is great. The Miracle Balm and what the foundation are amazing. I have never worn foundation in the past, but I love this. And it doesn't look like I have makeup on. The miracle Balm gives a dewy light glow. It's so pretty, especially for my aging skin. Not that either of you need makeup for aging skin. Take care, Whitney. Dang. Whitney didn't give her age.

[Kat]

I feel like they make up for aging skin.

[Amy]

I guess it just depends. We have different stages of aging. Like for example, the voicemail coming up. The caller's 53. I feel like we had something recently where someone was in their 60s. I don't know if Whitney's 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 90.

[Kat]

I've also gotten 100.

[Amy]

Probably not.

[Kat]

I feel like she's not 90 when

[Amy]

he's like 90 and loving the miracle bomb.

[Kat]

Good for you. I Hope when I'm 90, I'm putting makeup on. Still, like getting ready for the day,

[Amy]

you know, Whitney's probably listening. She's like, guys, I'm 45.

[Kat]

Well, she's the same age as you then.

[Amy]

I don't know. I just made that up. I have no idea her age. Whitney could be 29.

[Kat]

Okay.

[Amy]

I do think that the Jones Road is marketing hardcore right now.

[Kat]

Either to you.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Kat]

Because I've not heard anything.

[Amy]

Or maybe just my phone. Yeah, my phone is as giving me everything because I keep talking about it and I still haven't been able to go to the actual store because that's where I want to go to test out what colors I need. But this email from Whitney is, like, pushing me over the top. Like, I've got to make it down to 12 south. Not on a touristy day, because on touristy days, it's packed.

[Kat]

Yeah. I have another option for you.

[Amy]

What is it?

[Kat]

Because I recently started using new makeup. I don't know if you've noticed, but you're like, shoot.

[Amy]

I mean, it looks pretty. Oh, is it for pregnant skin?

[Kat]

No. Do they make that?

[Amy]

I don't know.

[Kat]

Well, I used to just wear tinted spf, and I was like, I want to start actually wearing makeup again. You know, I was getting targeted by merit.

[Amy]

Have you heard of merit? I like merit.

[Kat]

Have you ordered stuff before?

[Amy]

Only a little blush thingy.

[Kat]

Okay. Because if you. In your first order, they send you this really cute makeup bag, and that's purchase.

[Amy]

That reminds me of Clinique,

[Kat]

but I really like it. It doesn't like, I would say it doesn't stay on your skin all day, but it's very light. It kind of feels you're not wearing makeup. And I've been using Ilia sear, like a tinted serum. So it's not, like, full foundation, but you definitely can tell that I have something on my face.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

So if you don't make it to 12 south, you can just make it to the mall.

[Amy]

Well, okay. Yeah. The mall is definitely less crowded than 12 South. At times, color matching overwhelms me. And then do I have a spray tan? Do I not? Not spray tan. Professional. But my. My face mist. Yeah, I've been using. It's called salt water. I think I might need to fact check myself here for a second. And it's just this water mist that tans your face, neck, and chest.

[Kat]

Does that work, though?

[Amy]

I just.

[Kat]

You really think it?

[Amy]

Yeah, I know it does because I wake up. Okay. I wake up darker. I. I use it as the final step. This is how it's different from any other face tanner that I've used before. Which St. Tropez has a face, Mr. Back in the day, I loved this stuff. Like Jones, not Jones Road, but you sent me.

[Kat]

I think I bought that.

[Amy]

Yeah, they quit making it, and I don't know why.

[Kat]

Full bottle, because I bought it. And then I was like, the jam. I don't know if it really worked or not.

[Amy]

It definitely works.

[Kat]

And then I was like, when do I put this on? Do I put this on when I do my makeup? Because isn't that the one that you could put on any time of the day?

[Amy]

You can spritz it like over your makeup. Over your makeup or under. I would just do it as part of my nighttime routine, like my final step before I would go to bed. And that's what I'm doing with salt water. But here's the thing about that. And this is maybe why it got discontinued. Not sure it would turn any hair it touched, like a real dull color. Like so not like me, not like gray or white, but just sort of sad.

[Kat]

So was your.

[Amy]

Like that my hairline and my brows would be sad colored, like no life to them really. Not full blown gray, but it just some sort of discoloration that just didn't feel right.

[Kat]

Interesting.

[Amy]

But the color it left on your skin was great.

[Kat]

Amazing.

[Amy]

And now then for a while I couldn't find it. Couldn't find it. Combined it. So then I just quit buying any sort of mist. And I was applying like normal self tanner that I would put on my body, but I was putting on a sponge and contouring it around my face.

[Kat]

That feels risky.

[Amy]

Well, then it was drying out my skin because self tanner can be very drying and your skin on your face is way different than like your arm skin or your leg skin. And so I felt like it was getting really crepey and weird looking. So I was like, well, I gotta cut this out. And then I heard about salt water and I ordered that. And I must say, I like it.

[Kat]

And your eyebrows are.

[Amy]

It's not just.

[Kat]

Do we know if it's discoloring your eyebrows because you're having eyebrow.

[Amy]

No, but it's. My hairline's fine. Okay. No discoloration. And they're very much in business. The other one that I used to love is out of business and I wonder if that's why. Anyway, didn't plan on talking about any of that. Oh, Shannon just confirmed it might be

[Kat]

Salty Face is the one you like.

[Amy]

Yeah, I think I was called. What was I calling it? Salt water. Okay. Well, it's a kind of close. It's a tanning water mist called Salty Face.

[Kat]

Does it. Is it salty? No.

[Amy]

Oh, it must just be giving beach vibes. Salty face.

[Heather (Caller)]

Because it's.

[Kat]

The beach is salt water.

[Amy]

Yeah. But then I saw this. Okay, don't quote me on any of this because who knows? It was some person online, probably had no credentials. But they're like if you put this self tanner on your body and then go out in the sun and it bakes the chemicals from the self tanner into your skin, that's like more damage than if you would have just gone in the sun.

[Kat]

Wait, they're saying that about any self tanner?

[Amy]

Yeah, they're saying about the chemicals that are in self tanner, which. A popular ingredient is DHA or something like that in most self tanners. Again, this is just off the dome. Not a scientist, but that is a common ingredient. And they scared me because they said if you have the tanner on and then you go to the beach and then the sun is on you in the tanner, it's helping your body. It's like baking the chemicals into your body on a deeper level, like this perspective, almost like you would sear a steak. Like, they use that as an example of, like, when you put steak on a. Like, a pan grill, and it's like. It's like you're doing that to your skin, and the DHA is just going into your body, and then you're causing more damage than if you would have just.

[Kat]

Well, okay, here's my counter.

[Amy]

Well, counter it up, because I don't even remember who. Who I saw that video from, but it was quite frightening.

[Kat]

Well, my thing is, when I'm getting a spray tan, it's because I don't want to go lay in the sun. Or if I'm going on vacation, I don't like to lay out like I used to.

[Amy]

Yeah, you're gonna be in the shade.

[Kat]

So I put a ton of sunscreen on, and then I lay under an umbrella. So it probably is not gonna matter to you if that. Even if that is true. Okay. Because you're not.

[Amy]

Right.

[Kat]

You're, like, wearing a sun hat and stuff. Like, you're not. Yeah. So you're not gonna go lay out like we did when we were kids? Yeah.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Kat]

I do have a gripe, though, and I don't know if there's a solution that anybody could give me, because I Now, since I'm pregnant, I have to wear mineral sunscreen. That's what I've been hearing is best. Do you wear mineral sunscreen?

[Amy]

Yes. And.

[Kat]

Okay, well, then how. Because it took me an hour to put it on.

[Amy]

Wait, how much are you putting on?

[Kat]

Well, my whole body. And it. You have to rub it. Oh, not every day. No, no, no. I have a mineral sunscreen for my face that is, like, not that big of a deal, but the mineral sunscreen I got for the beach, it's like the white, thick kind. And I got a spray.

[Amy]

One thing, like, I will not. Did it break you out?

[Kat]

No.

[Amy]

Oh. I put a mineral spray on my body last summer, and it took a month for these little bumps on my Back to go away.

[Kat]

But I might have got the wrong spray because I sprayed it, but just sprayed out white sunscreen. Had to spend 45 minutes rubbing in. And I'm somebody who likes to reapply sunscreen. But no, absolutely, you're under an umbrella. I still got burnt a little bit on my foot. I did.

[Amy]

I think you could just be under

[Kat]

the umbrella at the beach. Okay. So I'm just putting that out there. If anybody has a mineral sunscreen that's easy to rub in, holler. Because honestly, I'm not going to the beach again until I have a solution.

[Amy]

I would just stay under the umbrella

[Kat]

with your sun hat. I'll have to wear socks.

[Amy]

Yeah, we'll maybe cover this on a pregnancy podcast that we do because I don't want to get too deep in the weeds of like what pregnancy people have to do. Like you have to wear mineral sunscreen.

[Kat]

Yeah. Because something about the chemicals. I'm pretty sure that's a thing. Like I'm, I'm.

[Amy]

But do you self tan?

[Kat]

I haven't since my wedding. That was two and a half years ago.

[Amy]

Okay, well, we have another email. Okay. Lately I have been more intentional about what I wear day to day. Leaning into pieces that feel effortless, comfortable and still put together. It just makes getting dressed simpler. Quints is my go to for this. They make it easy to refresh your everyday this spring with pieces that feel as good as they look. Now let me tell you what I did. I went to quince.com when I was shopping for some spring things. I clicked on the women tab and then I went over to the spring edit and I ordered a 100% European linen ladder stitch midi dress. I got it in the moonstone blue and it's going to be perfect for spring and summer. They've got dresses and tops that start at $30. They are effortless, breathable and easy to wear on repeat, which I love. In addition to the spring edit, you'll also see the vacation edit where they'll have great pieces. If you've got a trip coming up this summ, you can get ahead, get prepared and actually invest in pieces that you'll be able to wear years to come. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com amy for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.com amy for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com amy I don't know about you, but for me it's the time of year where I start looking at my patio and I'm going to make sure it's good to go for me to hang out outside and your outdoor space should feel like you. I used Wayfair to spruce up my space and the string lights that I got from Wayfair. They are so cute. String lights honestly are the way to go if you're just looking for a little pop to your patio. I also ordered these brown wicker chairs with white cushions. They have changed the vibe. It's where I like to sit in the mornings with my coffee. They have every style for every outdoor space. Whether your vibe is modern, coastal, farmhouse or eclectic, Wayfair has options to help you create an outdoor space that is uniquely yours and it's easy to find what you need. Just search it up. There's reviews, there's filters, visual tools and you can buy everything you need all in one place. Outdoor seating, grills, major appliances, storage, patio lighting, rugs, decor. Wayfair is your one stop shop for your home. Get prepped for patio season. For way less head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y f a I r.com Wayfair Every style Every Home Wayfair

[Podcast Announcer]

Every Style Every Home Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this

[Bowen Yang]

is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Research with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We all know the Feeling when life gets really busy, taking care of yourself can feel impossible. That's why Premier protein shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make. It's not just for fitness, it's for getting after life. The 30 grams of protein gives you the fuel you need. It's not just for intense gym sessions. It's just for life. With the wide variety of flavors, from cafe latte to cake batter, it never feels boring. It's a flavor for everyone. I personally love the peaches and cream, but maybe you're a root beer floater, cinnamon roll kind of person. Premier Protein powers me to say yes to more. Find your favorite flavor@premier protein.com. that's P R E M I E R protein.com. or at Amazon, Walmart and other major retailers.

[Amy]

We have another email.

[Kat]

Okay.

[Amy]

From Drumroll. Corinne, I was reading that Shannon was confirming in our notes that it is dha. So I was proud of my brain for getting it right. Dihydrocoxytone.

[Kat]

It's a really good enunciation. No, I, I don't think dihydroxyacetone.

[Amy]

Oh, okay.

[Kat]

Sorry.

[Amy]

You got it, you got it. Okay. Corinne says, I was listening to the podcast today about how the generations have changed with talking to girls about periods. I was also in the generation where a little pamphlet from the health department and some pads showed up on my bed. Obviously from the period fairy, because my mom would never. I have had talks about it with my girls since they were so little when they started theirs at 10 and 11. And they're all pros with the details. One funny story from my 12 year old last fall was she was concerned about if she were to be on her period when we were going to Mexico for vacation. I told her we could get tampons and she wanted me to show her how to use them. She looked at me and said, can you just buy a watermelon, drill some holes in it and then we can shove the tampons into practice? She goes, not quite the same thing.

[Kat]

Okay, that's kind of smart for the daughter. I know it solves the problem of how do I, like, use this applicator. But it doesn't solve the problem of like, where do I put it right? Which was my issue.

[Amy]

And then like, what angle?

[Kat]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Amy]

I just thought that that was like a cute, funny email.

[Kat]

Yeah. And the what? Period fairy. See, that's so interesting. To me that we're gonna put this here, but we're not gonna talk about it, which is kind of what we were talking about last time.

[Amy]

Yeah. My mom's like, oh, these things are just gonna appear, but I'm not gonna, like, tell you where they came from or what you're supposed to do with them or what's gonna happen every single month for the rest of your life until.

[Kat]

Yeah, why it's happening. Interesting. Cute.

[Amy]

So cute. Thank you for sharing. We love yalls cute little stories like that. We have a voicemail from Heather, and this is international. Brace yourself. She's actually called us before, but you'll see with her accent, she's calling from up north, internationally.

[Heather (Caller)]

Hi, my name is Heather. I'm calling from Canada. I'm 53. I've called before. I was just listening to your podcast about naming your child after yourself as a woman, and I'm gonna say, go for it. My boys were both named after my husband. They each got one of his middle names because my husband has two middle names. So I gave one to each of them, plus one of their own. And my daughter, when she was little, asked why I didn't give her my middle name. And whether it's a middle name or your first name, I would give it to her because, yeah, my daughter was sad that I didn't. And it didn't even cross my mind, even though my middle name is after my grandma and my sister's middle name is after her, my dad's side of the family, grandma. So I think it's more often done with our grandparents or something like that. But I don't think there's anything wrong with using yours, especially if it fits nice, because the day you need to have.

[Amy]

Okay, I love that. And it is interesting because we will name our daughters after our grandma or an aunt.

[Kat]

But that what's different of, like, naming after somebody else, it's that I'm naming her after myself again.

[Amy]

But men do it.

[Kat]

I know. And that's why, honestly, it's been growing on me because it sounds really good with the first name we picked. I hope you do it just for some woman. Female empowerment.

[Amy]

Yeah, I think it'd be cool.

[Kat]

I have a nice name. It's not like, some, like, family name that I'm being forced to pass down that they're not gonna like, you know?

[Amy]

Yeah. I didn't get my mom's name as my middle name, but I got her middle name as my middle name.

[Kat]

Wait, stop. Okay, so you're named after your mom?

[Amy]

Her middle name. My middle name is her middle name.

[Kat]

Tell me that it's the same thing.

[Amy]

It's not the same thing because I'm not Amy Judy.

[Kat]

I know.

[Amy]

I'm Amy Elizabeth. And my mom was Judy Elizabeth, but then my grandma was Elizabeth and my great grandma was Elizabeth. So like Elizabeth is just a very common middle name in our family.

[Kat]

Your grandma named her daughter after herself a middle name.

[Amy]

All of these are middle names.

[Kat]

This would be her middle name.

[Amy]

You're saying you would make your first name her middle name?

[Kat]

Yes.

[Amy]

Yeah. No, these are all middle names for everybody. Middle name all the way down. Nobody.

[Kat]

Well, just lie to me, okay? Make me feel better.

[Amy]

I just, I think that you could start a trend.

[Kat]

Yeah, I can start a trend. I also don't want the pressure of my kids feeling like they have to continue it, you know, so.

[Amy]

Yeah, well, they don't have to. I, I gave my adopted daughter Elizabeth. I continued it. She has like multiple names because we kept her. Her birth last name as a middle name too.

[Kat]

So she's a long. Is it government that long?

[Amy]

Her driver's license, two middle names. I mean, I don't know what it says on her driver's license, but legally. That's a good question.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

When we filed all her paperwork here, that's how we have her as her name. The middle name I gave her, her last name she was born with, and then her new adopted last name.

[Kat]

Well, that's also special to like be able to give her a name and then also keep her. I mean, that's a good. I will say Elizabeth is in the running.

[Amy]

Yes. It's gonna be named after me. As a middle name.

[Kat]

As a middle name.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

But speaking of kids, I have something I want to share that I think you're a little familiar with. But we haven't talked about it on here, at least. I mean, if we talked about in the fifth thing, it was years ago and I think it's really relevant. One I've been thinking about just like, you know, I'm getting emotional. I think about like my daughter and her growing up and what she's going to be like and what she's going to want to do and like where she's going to go to school and all this stuff. And then also it's end of the year and people are graduating and I, I don't think that our demographic is the 18 year olds that are graduating and going to college, but they're probably

[Amy]

more like the ones wearing Jones Road

[Kat]

who are in that stage that I'M like, fantasizing about with my daughter and a long time ago.

[Amy]

When she graduates.

[Kat]

Yes. When she graduates. Yes.

[Amy]

Like, you're. You're already thinking, I wonder what she's gonna do, what she's gonna do. But what is school even gonna be like then in 18 years?

[Kat]

Oh, I haven't gotten there.

[Amy]

Okay. So assuming it's all just, life's the same. Like, kids still go to college and

[Kat]

stuff, but they might not because of AI.

[Amy]

I don't know. What. Who knows?

[Kat]

Well, now this adds a whole nother layer to what I'm about to bring up, because I didn't even think about that. But years ago, I was listening to Oprah's super soul podcast, Super Soul Conversation. Yes. And she had Elizabeth Gilbert on, who wrote Eat, Pray, Love. And I had never read her book or seen the movie or anything, and. But I was interested in what she had to say, and she. She talked about how she went and spoke because Eat, Pray, Love is about finding your passion. Right. I haven't seen it, so.

[Amy]

Seen it or read it.

[Kat]

Yeah. So. Right. So that. That, I think, put her on a trajectory where she would go speak to all these people after she wrote that book, and it became really big about finding your passion. And she said when she got to her hotel after she gave a speech, she got an email from somebody that was in the audience, and it was, you know, I think she's used to getting like, you've saved my life, or, you've changed everything for me. All these really positive emails. And she got an email from this woman who came to be inspired and said she had never felt worse about herself than she did when she left that talk. Wow. Which, like, I think for Elizabeth Gilbert, she was like, oh, shoot.

[Amy]

Like, that's not what I was expecting. It's obviously not the goal whenever you're setting out to talk about anything, especially, you know, encouraging people to.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Find their passion.

[Kat]

Yeah. So it led her down this path of kind of rethinking the way she was kind of promoting, go find your passion and go do this thing. And so there I found this article that talks about what the aftermath of this was for Elizabeth Gilbert. And I want to share it. And then I hope. My hope is that this can help. I mean, honestly, it helps me now in my age, because I can relate to this, but it also can help us as we're, you know, sending this next generation off to figure out what they want to do with their lives. Because, I don't know about you, but when I went to School. And this wasn't like my parents doing this or anything. I think it's just the world. I felt like I needed to know what my major was going to be and I needed to know what I was going to do after school, and I needed to know what I was going to be when I grew up, like my freshman year of college. And that's a lot to ask an 18 year old. Yeah, I think I'm correct in this. Didn't you change your major a lot?

[Amy]

Oh, I changed it when I was a junior.

[Kat]

Oh. For some reason I thought you were like me. I changed my major like five times.

[Amy]

No, I changed it once, but then I did. Even the major I changed to was just so I could graduate, finish school, like in a timely manner so I didn't waste a bunch of hours.

[Kat]

Okay.

[Amy]

And then. Yeah. I don't use anything from school, which is like, yeah, it's kind of. Yeah, I know. It's like, wow, I went to college and I don't. I don't.

[Kat]

You use the fact that you went to college and it helped shape you in other ways, but you don't use your actual degree.

[Amy]

Yeah. But there was no other. It never occurred to me to not go to school.

[Kat]

Right, right. Which I think is another thing that I think actually the generation now is more. What's the word? Like, flexible with. I feel like when I went to school, it was like, you go to school. But now I think more people are thinking outside of the box.

[Amy]

More people are doing trade school. I mean, that's something that's a conversation in our household. Like we're die. I'm. I'm the mom in the Season of Life that has a daughter trying to navigate what she wants to do. And we're being flexible. It doesn't look like what. What we thought and we're trying to go with that flow.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Because I think I, even though I don't, I didn't have that expectation of this is what your college life will look like. It's still what I had and what my sister had, so I just assumed she would have it. And now it's looking a little bit different. And that's okay.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

And speaking of AI and trade is very valuable because that's a skill set. Like if you go to a trade school, like if she were to. I mean, there's a lot of different types of trade schools, but in her way.

[Kat]

I can't do your hair right.

[Amy]

Or can't be an esthetician.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Although I know at one of the hotels downtown. I saw they have robots that give massages.

[Heather (Caller)]

Foreign

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[Ray Porter]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo yo yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that deeply, emotionally affected me and I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too.

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[Amy]

One of the hotels downtown I saw they have robots that give massages. Is it at one hotel or something?

[Kat]

I saw that and I would rather go to a real But I also I would too. But I also see somebody who's like maybe that can be like trauma informed massages because then you don't have a person touching you.

[Amy]

You. Oh, I didn't think about that.

[Kat]

But then also like but what if

[Amy]

the robot goes rogue?

[Kat]

Right? That's what I was like. Then you can't say like, I hope the robot's trained for you to be like, no, I don't like that. So then they can stop. No means no. No. Anyway, I want to read this article I found about this. It's called Are you a hummingbird or a jackhammer? The answer could help you find your life's passion. And it's by Billy Fitzsimmons. What are you going to be when you grow up? It's a question that we're all familiar with whether you're 15 or 50. It's also a question that can cause a lot of anxiety for those who feel concerned that they don't actually know what their passion or one true calling in life is. Elizabeth Gilbert, author of Eat, Pray Love, has shared a theory that is perhaps comforting for those who never know how to answer this life shaping question. When she first posited the theory, Gilbert explained, the world is divided into two people. There are hummingbirds and there are jackhammers. Gilbert shared that she herself identifies in the jackhammer category, who she defines as someone who's become consumed by their one passion. We don't look up and we don't veer and we're just focused on that until the end of time. It's efficient. You get a lot done. But we tend to be obsessive and fundamentalists and sometimes a little difficult and very loud. And then there's the hummingbird, the colorful bird that floats around. Hummingbirds spend their lives doing it very differently. They move from tree to tree, from flower to flower, field to field, trying this, trying that. Gilbert explains that while hummingbirds may feel anxious about not immediately finding their passion, they shouldn't feel pressure to change. They create incredibly rich, complex lives for themselves and they also end up cross pollinating. That is the service you do if you are a hummingbird person. The best thing about those who identify as hummingbirds, she explained, is their diversity of experience. You bring an idea from here to over there, where you learn something else and you weave it in and you take it in and then you take it to the next thing you do. Your perspective ends up keeping the entire culture aerated, mixed up and open to the new. If that's how you are constructed by your divine maker, then that's how we need you to be. For those who recognize themselves as a hummingbird, Gilbert goes on to say that eventually you will be much happier for following this path if you do that. If you are willing to just release yourself from the pressure of the anxiety, surrounded by your passion, and you just humbly and faithfully continue to follow the trail of the hummingbird path and you just trust it. One of these days you might just look up and realize, oh my word, I am exactly where I'm supposed to be. In other words, if you can let go of the passion and follow your curiosity, your curiosity might just lead you to your passion. Love that. Yeah, and I love the end of it. I forgot this whole part where it was all about like, what if we were more curious and less fixed on like figuring it out? And if we're just more curious, then like, we'll probably end up being exactly where we need to be.

[Amy]

It's Sort of what we were talking about before we even came on and recorded it wasn't related to this exact topic, but just approaching very difficult things with curiosity. Like we were talking about something not even related to this, but more in the therapeutic space. But I guess I can't really say it's. It's not a story that's mine to tell, so I can't share it. But just looking in your life, even where things you feel, well, speaking of passion, you might feel passionately one way about and a little bit hard headed on and kind of like, well, it's this way or the highway, or you feel perplexed by something and frustrated. Well, have you approached it with curiosity yet? And some just. It offers a little more compassion towards the situation when you show up with curiosity.

[Kat]

Yeah. And that's the. What is the quote from Ted Lasso, which. Oh my gosh, did you know they're coming out with another season?

[Amy]

I saw that. Yeah.

[Kat]

I thought it was done. So that was really great news. But that quote from. I don't know if they quote somebody saying this, if this is quote from Ted Lasso, but they say be curious, not judgmental. And in the dart scene, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. And so you get so much more out of being curious than you do being judgmental. And I think that relates to when we are like stuck on figuring it out. Or like this woman who left this talk feeling very down about herself. If I can be more curious about what I want versus judgmental, that I haven't become an author or become a doctor or done this thing, then I might end up doing more than that. Like, she's talking about how the hummingbirds end up doing so much more than a lot of the jackhammers. But the jackhammers are just louder about what they do.

[Amy]

But it's like, head down.

[Kat]

Yes. I just this. I forgot how, like, speaking of jackhammers, like, jacked up this, like, article and this talk got me. I've read this to so many clients and half the time when I read it to them, I cry because I'm like, oh, this is like, I'm gonna get emotional. No, it's wrong with me. I've just sat with so many people who have been lost and not known what to do. And I myself has been someone who has been like, well, what if I don't want to do this for the rest of my life? Like, I can't just be known as a therapist or this one thing, because that feels like I feel like, trapped in that. And to be able to read this to somebody and then be like, oh, I didn't know there was another way. Because the. I feel like part of, like, what we're taught in the American dream is to, like, go get the job and live the life and do the thing.

[Amy]

Beat the jackhammer, be the jackhammer. Head down. You're. You've got a little hummingbird in your belly.

[Kat]

I think she's gonna be a hummingbird.

[Amy]

Well, you're gonna raise her that way.

[Kat]

If she's anything like me, she'll be a hummingbird.

[Amy]

Well, when did you figure that out, though? Because at 18, you didn't have that.

[Kat]

No, I think that was later, and I think it was honestly when I was listening. Maybe that's why this is so important to me, is when I listened to this the first time, I was like. I think I listened to it, like, five times, because I have never heard that. I think she might have come up with analogy, but I just have never heard another way.

[Amy]

And it is the perfect analogy.

[Kat]

Yeah. And I've always said I don't see myself doing the same thing for, like, I. I could never see myself being a private practice therapist, which, like, that's not all I do anymore. But I could never. Even when I started, I couldn't see myself doing that until I was, like, 50, 60. Whenever you retire. That just didn't seem like. Didn't feel manageable to me. Like, that's not who I am. And then also, I'm somebody who comes up with all of these crazy ideas. I. Some of them work out, some of them don't. But I think when I allowed myself to go out and try different things, then I could, like, be the cycling instructor. I could, like, start a podcast. I could do these other things that didn't work out. I could start a jewelry business. Like, that feels better to me than being like, this has to be who you are forever. I think I compare myself that to these, like, therapists that are, like, in it, and that's just like you. They embody it. It's like they breathe, sleep, eat everything they do. And I could have told myself the story, well, then I shouldn't be a therapist if I'm not like them.

[Amy]

Right. Because that might be the. They are meant to be a jackham. Just because somebody's not a hummingbird doesn't mean that, like, that's.

[Kat]

Jackhammers are still good.

[Amy]

Yes. And they're needed in certain areas because I think someone may ask themselves that question, am I a Jackhammer or a hummingbird. And you may be like, oh, I'm a hummingbird, but what if it would be more fulfilling for them to be a jackhammer? I don't know.

[Kat]

Yeah, that's what.

[Amy]

Because I feel like we're approaching it right now. Like, at least I'm getting that. I'm applying. My sense of that is, like, everyone should just be more curious. Be a hummingbird. But, like, we need jackhammers too, huh?

[Kat]

We need both. I think my takeaway is, like, be curious, and if that leads you to the jackhammer, go for it. And if that can you feel fulfillment.

[Amy]

Yes.

[Kat]

Because so many people that. And that's why I've read this to a bunch of clients, is they'll sit and be like, I don't. I hate my job. Or they'll be younger and like, I don't know what I want to do. And, you know, we have career day when we're younger, and we're supposed to, like, know what we want to be when we're, like, 12 years old and all that.

[Amy]

Speaking of jackhammer.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

So I. I took that career assessment test when I was in high school, and it said I should operate heavy machinery.

[Kat]

Yeah. So, like, what if you went with that and you're like, well, I have to do this. And so I think that giving an option, if you know what you want, that is a gift in itself. And we need those people. We need the people that, like, have the passion and it makes sense and it's all consuming because they do great work. But also, this is just opening up another way that, like, if you don't have this one passion, that's not bad. That just means that you are this other type of person. And if we let ourselves be that type of person, you'll end up better off than trying to find. Force yourself to figure out this one true passion.

[Heather (Caller)]

Right?

[Amy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kat]

So honestly, my child can be whatever she wants. She can be the jackhammer.

[Amy]

That's true.

[Kat]

But I just have a feeling if she's coming from me, she's probably not going to be.

[Amy]

We assigned her. We were. We were assigning her. We don't know how she's going to identify yet.

[Kat]

No, we have no idea.

[Amy]

I don't know if she's going to be a jackhammer or a hummingbird and we shall let her decide or something

[Kat]

else that we just haven't discovered yet.

[Amy]

I don't like a lot of options, to be honest.

[Kat]

So she has two options.

[Amy]

Thank you all for sending in emails and voicemails. You can hang Hit us up. Heythere feelingthingspodcast.com or call 877-207-2077 and we hope wherever you are, you have the

[Kat]

day you need to have.

[Amy]

Bye bye.

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