FEELING THINGS - Understanding Forced Forgiveness & Did This Listener Get Ghosted By Her Therapist? (Couch Talks)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "FEELING THINGS - Understanding Forced Forgiveness & Did This Listener Get Ghosted By Her Therapist?" (Couch Talks)

The Bobby Bones Show | Hosted by Amy & Kat | Aired July 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this edition of "Couch Talks," Amy and Kat answer listener questions on the themes of forgiveness (especially the concept of "forced forgiveness"), navigating ongoing relationships with people who’ve caused hurt, and what to do when you feel "ghosted" by a long-term therapist. The hosts share personal stories, professional insights, and a healthy dose of banter, all while creating a safe, relatable space for listeners grappling with emotionally charged situations.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Exploring Forgiveness vs. Forced Forgiveness

[00:46 – 20:03]

The Listener’s Question

• Anonymous writes in asking how to forgive and forget after being wronged—especially when ongoing contact is required and the other party hasn’t apologized.

Kat’s Perspective

• The concept of "forced forgiveness":

  • Forgiveness is often treated as a requirement, particularly in faith communities (“be the bigger person,” “love thy neighbor”).
  • Quote: “You can't just like snap your fingers and be like, I forgive them…You can't actually just change your feelings...there's another option...offering some compassion without forgiveness.” (Kat, 04:04)

• Authenticity and Agency:

  • Pushing yourself to forgive before you're ready can feel inauthentic and like “losing yourself.”
  • Quote: “Leaving the door open [to forgiveness] but not being forced to do it right now gives you some agency versus I have to do this. And then it's not as authentic.” (Kat, 05:09)

• Boundaries and Remembering:

  • Not forgetting is healthy—remembering past hurts can help set appropriate boundaries and avoid being hurt again.
  • Quote: “A lot of times when people do things that are very hurtful...it's healthy to remember so we don't put ourselves in that situation again.” (Kat, 02:50)
  • Compassion or understanding does not necessarily require forgiving.

Amy’s Perspective

• Forgiveness can bring personal peace and is connected to her faith.
  • Quote: “For me that forgiveness part works, like that is something that works for me and that helps…I want to do that because I want to forgive, because I would like to be forgiven.” (Amy, 09:59)
• Emphasizes that forgiveness should be a choice—if it brings healing, do it; if not, consider alternatives.

Notable Example

• From the book "Maybe You Should Talk to Someone":
  • A son, abandoned by his father, only says “thank you” when his dying father apologizes—demonstrating compassion or acknowledgment without offering forgiveness.

Practical Advice

• It’s possible to move forward—set boundaries, protect yourself, and diminish awkwardness or tension, even if you’re not able to forget or reconcile.
• Invisible boundaries can be just as important as explicit ones—sometimes these may need to be asserted directly if crossed (13:00 – 14:30).

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2. Listener Story: Navigating a Therapist ‘Ghosting’

[20:03 – 29:53]

Alex’s Question

• After six years with the same therapist, Alex feels abandoned when emails go unanswered for weeks and sessions are missed—especially during a personal crisis.
• Asks: Should she move on to a new therapist, reach out again, or wait?

Kat’s Professional Insight

• Missing appointments and a lack of communication is highly unusual for a therapist.
  • Quote: “This is odd. I just want her to know that this is, like, not normal.” (Kat, 25:01)
• Therapists should have protocols in place in case of emergencies or inability to continue practice (colleagues to contact clients).
• Advises Alex to reach out one more time; it's not “annoying” to follow up under these circumstances (26:35 – 26:54).
  • Quote: “If I ever don't answer you, please follow up, because that means that I probably just read the email and then couldn't respond the moment and then forgot.” (Kat, 26:07)

Amy’s Perspective

• Suggests patience and curiosity—something may have happened in the therapist’s life; don’t jump to worst-case assumptions.

Both Agree:

• If Alex doesn’t hear back, it’s okay to look for another therapist but keep the door open to returning if appropriate.

• No need for guilt or hard feelings—curiosity over conclusions.

  • Quote: "I wouldn't even have hard feelings. I would just have curiosity." (Amy, 28:24)

• Alex is invited to update with what happens next.

Memorable Moment

• Brief, darkly humorous tangent on a real-life example where someone assumed they’d been stood up for a date — only to discover the person had passed away (23:36 – 24:00).

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3. Email Mix-Up: Wedding Venue Hilarity

[31:00 – 39:39]

• The hosts read an email intended for a wedding venue, not the podcast! Discussion on whether they’d get married at the same venue as a sibling and the importance of individual preferences.

  • Quote: "[Jessica and Mark], we wish you nothing but love and babies. If that's what you want. If that's not what you want, then no babies. No babies. Lots of love…" (Amy, 37:05)

• Also, a segue into sensitivity around family-planning questions—reminding listeners that not everyone’s family-building journey is straightforward or known (37:39 – 39:39).

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4. Letting Go of the Past and Legal/Professional Lessons

[39:44 – 49:12]

• Discussion on rumination: replaying how things could have gone differently and how it’s ultimately unproductive.

  • Quote: “You can’t do anything about it. You can’t change it, you can’t undo it, you can’t replay it and fix things, but you can move forward with intention." (Kat, 42:18)

• Kat shares a stressful professional experience involving an anonymous complaint and legal fees, highlighting:

  • Importance of not panicking
  • Use of malpractice insurance for therapy professionals
  • Rarity but realness of such complaints

• Relates to a widely publicized lawsuit (the "Love Trapped" podcast/Bachelor Clayton case) on the theme of undeserved consequences and the toll of false accusations.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Forced Forgiveness:
  "I like to talk about the forced forgiveness, because I think a lot of people are pushed into that and it doesn't actually feel authentic to them. And then there's a different kind of resentment built up." — Kat, 10:40

• Processing Forgiveness in Stages:
  "I want to forgive you, and my goal is to get there, but I might take some time. And forgiveness for me doesn't equal reconciliation." — Amy, 05:28

• Compassion Doesn’t Mean Forgetting:
  “Neither of these things include forgetting...I would urge this person, like, you don't forget it, because you also need to have boundaries with this person.” — Kat, 06:19

• On Setting Boundaries:
  "Invisible boundaries are harder to keep than ones where you have to verbally declare them." — Amy, 14:39

• Therapist-Client Attachment:
  "I would want my clients to reach out again, and hopefully you'll get some answers...the timing couldn't be worse." — Kat, 29:04

• Wry Take on Misrouted Emails:
  "If you're looking for a wedding venue, we recommend Clementine. Although we cannot provide a price quote." — Amy, 53:21

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Timestamps for Noteworthy Segments

• [00:46 – 20:03] — Forgiveness, Forced Forgiveness, Moving Forward with Boundaries
• [23:36 – 30:00] — Listener Ghosted by Therapist, Professional Boundaries in Therapy
• [31:00 – 39:39] — Accidental Wedding Venue Email, Sensitivity in Family Planning Conversations
• [39:44 – 49:12] — Letting Go of the Past, Legal Lessons, and Rumination
• [51:00 – End] — Lighthearted Banter, Closing Thoughts, and Contact Information

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Tone & Takeaways

With warmth, humor, and vulnerability, Amy and Kat remind listeners that emotional healing is not linear, that boundaries are empowering tools, and that each person’s journey with forgiveness (and therapy) is unique. While both hosts bring different backgrounds—faith, professional therapy, and personal history—they create space for all listeners to feel validated and seen.

Practical advice pairs with personal storytelling, producing a comforting, insightful episode that’s perfect for anyone struggling with forgiveness or therapy relationships.

Transcript

[A]

This is an I heart podcast, guaranteed human. While we hope Couch Talks can be a tool that helps and supports wherever you are in life, Couch Talks does not serve as a replacement or substitute for therapy or any mental health services. If you ever have feelings and you just want some, maybe a cat got you covered like a num brother. Ladies and fellas, we just follow in

[B]

the spirit where it tell us from

[A]

the real stuff to the chill stu the in between. Sometimes the best thing you can do is just stop and feel things. This is Feeling Things with Amy and Kat.

[B]

Happy Thursday. Welcome to Couch Talks, our Q and A episode to the Feeling Things podcast. I'm Amy.

[A]

And I'm Kat.

[B]

And our first email drum roll is anonymous. Ooh, I'll just get straight into it. Hey, Amy and Kat, I've been listening to you both from the start and I love that you have come together for Feeling Things. I love your banter and relationship and I laugh every time I listen to you guys. Kat, congratulations on baby girl. It's the most exciting adventure you'll embark on, but also it's the hardest job you'll ever love. I like the way they did that there.

[A]

It's cute.

[B]

The hardest job you'll ever love. Full disclosure, I'm behind on the podcast, so if anything like my question has been discussed, disregard. I would like to stay anonymous. But my main question is this. If you feel like you have been wronged, how do you forget about the wrongdoing? People say forgive and forget. And I know that at some point I will feel better after I forgive, but how do I forget about the whole thing? And then I will say, this person went on to summarize their experience and everything that happened to them. They did not want that part shared at all. And Kat read it and was like, I, I put some stuff in our Google Doc that we have about this about forgiveness, and you know, that would be more so for yourself, not for them. And then Cat typed, I don't know if I could forgive anybody for anything that if they did that. And I thought, okay, well, this is good that we've got some different perspectives on forgiveness, but I do, I do see your point. So why don't you go ahead and talk about what your thoughts were after that and anybody else can relate to, obviously not to the exact situation since they're not sharing that, but maybe in their heart having to wrestle with having to or feeling the desire or what to do with all these feelings. When you want to forgive, but you also want to forget, but you can't seem to do either.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What do you do?

[A]

Well, I think that this situation. I'm not going to share anything about this situation other than she did say at the end. Because my thought was, why would you want to forgive and forget this? Lot of times when people do things that are very hurtful or harmful to us, it's healthy to remember so we don't put ourselves in that situation again. And whatever version of forgiveness there is. And I, I have a whole spiel on, on forced forgiveness that I'll, I'll kind of go through. You can offer that for yourself. And we don't always need to forget what has happened. However she did set, she gave some reasons of why she wants to, and it's because these aren't people she can just. Well, she could, but she doesn't want to cut these people out of her life. They're, they're going, they're gonna be intertwined for whatever reasons. And so I do get her not wanting things to be awkward for herself, however, can't totally get rid of the awkwardness or just the tension completely, but you can diminish it.

[B]

Lesson.

[A]

Lesson. Yeah. By working through some stuff internally they don't ever have to know. I think that's another thing to remember when we're looking at like forgiveness and all that. The other person doesn't necessarily always have to know that you forgive them because oftentimes you're doing that. So especially in this situation, she's doing that so she can move on. So there's this thing I like to call force forgiveness. And that is what happens when we take this kind of rhetoric or just. I think it's how people generally, especially in faith based communities, talk about forgiveness as, you know, everybody deserves it, love thy neighbor, move on, be the bigger person, all this stuff. But the problem is you can't just like snap your fingers and be like, I, I forgive them. Even if you think that per my belief system or per. Whatever, it's the right thing to do, you can't. That's like telling yourself you have to change your feelings. You can't actually just change your feelings. There's another option that I don't think is talked about as much and that is offering some compassion without forgiveness.

[B]

So, well, the forgiveness can still come. It just may not come immediately that time. And it maybe it doesn't ever come, but I think just leaving that door open is good. But not this feeling of like, oh, I need to forgive right away because I've been forgiven, or yes, because you may need More time to process.

[A]

Yeah. And that also can feel. When that is kind of pushed on you, it feels like I don't have a choice. And this, I think what you're saying is opening, leaving the door open, but not being forced to do it right now gives you some agency versus I have to do this. And then it's not as authentic either, you know?

[B]

Yeah. Because you need time to process. You can't just out of the gate be like, oh, okay, yeah, this is fine. I forgive you. You may say, I want to forgive you, and my goal is to get there, but I might take some time. And forgiveness for me doesn't equal reconciliation.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think other thing that's important in this situation. I'm pretty sure the other party did never apologized, so that's not even a thing. So she's asking, how do I forgive and forget without even somebody acknowledging that we were hurt or harmed? She's in a tough situ. Like, this is like one of the toughest situations you can be kind of put in. In that regard. So I like to think about offering compassion. Another word you could use is like, some kind of understanding versus forgiving and kind of washing that away. Neither of these things include forgetting. And I. I do think things with time don't feel as hot, but I wouldn't. I would urge this person, like, you don't forget it, because you also need to have boundaries with this person. And if you forget this ever happened, you could put yourself in that same situation. That does not mean that every time I'm seeing this person, I'm picturing myself poking their eyes out or something like that. So an example of compassion without forgiveness would be like, if. And I actually. I should give credit to this. I learned about this specific language with this from the book maybe you should talk to someone by Lori Gottlieb. And she actually used. I'll use the example she used. She was an example of a. A dad that had abandoned his son, I think, or just wasn't present, or he might have had addiction issues or something like that. But he wasn't present, and he was not a good father. And on his deathbed, he acknowledged that to his son finally, and was like, you know what? I'm sorry I didn't give you what you needed. I was not the father that you deserved. On and on and on. And the son just looked at him and said, thank you. He didn't say, I forgive you. He didn't say, I forget that. Don't worry about it. And I think a lot of times when people do apologize, we feel this pressure to be like, oh, it's okay. But when somebody apologizes, it's okay for you just to be like, well, thank you. I really appreciate you acknowledging that. That does not mean that you in that moment then have to forgive them. Like you said, it might come with time, it might never come. But if I can offer compassion and see, okay, my dad also was hand handed a kind of bad deal, like a bad hand of cards or my dad did the best he could, but it wasn't enough, then I don't have to forgive him for that. I can understand and offer him compassion that he was doing the best he could. It just wasn't enough for me. So I don't know if that's something that would help this person in this situation because of some of the details. I don't, I wouldn't say that this guy was doing the best that he could and he didn't apologize from what I remember. But I think also just looking at people as, as imperfect people and saying, you know what? He's imperfect. He has his things. We all have his things. He's a human. I might not forgive him, but I can see him as that.

[B]

So when you say someone is choosing not to forgive, are they then I, I don't, and I don't know if it's some of it's just how I grew up and it is part of my faith. But I have a hard time wrapping my head around like, if you can have that compassion and you can get there and see where they're coming from and still acknowledge your feelings, then just short of saying the words like, okay, I think I could for I'm forgiving this person. Or is it just because someone really may not want to get to that point or are they still harboring like really negative feelings and thoughts of like, oh, I hate this person and what they did to me.

[A]

Well, it could be both depending on the person. But when I think about this and I think there's people in my life that I, I mean, in time I think some things have changed and things have not been as important to me. But in the moment I did not forgive them, but I was able to move on, I still have those feelings of hurt. Sometimes it's anger. So whatever it is. But I also am not sitting there being like, you're the devil, right? Or, or I wish bad things on

[B]

you, but it's not. And it's also not consuming you and ruminating in your mind because for me that's what forgiveness has offered of like this piece of like also too. I know when I mess up like I want to, I would like the opportunity to be forgiven. If, if I'm asking for that or even if I'm not, if someone needs to forgive me something that I don't even know that I did, which I'm sure has happened because I'm. I know there's times I've hurt people that I probably am not aware of, that they probably would have liked for me to acknowledge. Yeah, I do have a lot of that. Like, I want to do that because I want to forgive, because I would like to be forgiven. And I. I don't know.

[A]

But that also, this is a different strokes for different folks kind of situation. Like, if forgiveness and all of that work, if that language and that way of thinking things and that way of working through things works for you, then don't mess with it. I like to talk about the force forgiveness, because I think a lot of people are. Are pushed into that and it doesn't actually feel authentic to them. And then there's a different kind of resentment built up or you lose yourself in some of that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you don't get to stand up for yourself. Where some moments where I feel like I have not forgiven somebody in the moment, but I've been able to offer compassion is a way for me to. Saying like, for me to say this is not okay and I'm not abolishing you of, of what you've done. And that feels like it's standing up for myself feel like versus I feel like a lot of people that are taught you must forgive or told they must forgive for you to be a good person or for you to have peace. It doesn't feel. I think the word that keeps coming to me is like, that they have agency over their feelings or protecting themselves or standing up for themselves. So if you feel fine forgiving somebody and it feels good and it helps you move on, don't mess with that. But if you've been in moments where you're like, and I why I brought this up with this person is because she wants to be able to move forward with some of these people. But we don't always have to forgive and forget to move forward. I can move forward with boundaries, with remembering, with not saying it's okay, I can still move forward. And sometimes when we do that too, when we want to forgive and forget, it's not for us. It's so the other person doesn't feel uncomfortable. And like you can feel uncomfortable I want you to feel uncomfortable if you've done something that crazy. Like you should feel uncomfortable when you're around me, because you should. There should be guilt there. This per. I don't think the person felt guilt that she was talking about. And so just make sure you're doing this for you versus so other people don't feel uncomfortable.

[B]

And like, when you have to create even boundaries, like with people that still might be in your life, like you mentioned earlier, some of the stuff is invisible. It's be stuff. It can be stuff you work through. It's not like you have to announce to them, I now have a boundary with you. You can work on creating your own invisible boundaries and then just implement those as you see fit. Like, I have people close to me that were just in a situation recently where they had to keep their invisible boundaries intact. But then also a tiny line was crossed. It wasn't crazy, but they stood up for themselves and I was really proud of them when they told me, oh man, this is a story I wish I could tell you, but I can't. But I will say I was proud of how they handled it. And some of you might be in a similar situation where your invisible boundary gets crossed and then you may have to speak up. Invisible boundaries are harder to keep than ones where you have to verbally declare them. But this person in my life spoke up and spoke up firmly and directly and I was really, really proud of them. And that might be something that you even practice doing. Because I was thinking about if I was in the situation of person close to me and how they reacted and how perfect it was. I was thinking, oh, I wonder if they did a little dress rehearsal, like a little run through of different scenarios that might happen. And like, what's going to be your response? Because if, if it's people that are still in your life, at some point you may be put in a situation and you don't want to be caught off guard or you don't want to be vulnerable and then you don't want to let them cross the line because then it's like, oh, well, I already let you know. So maybe a little role play, whether

[A]

that's with yourself or with a friend

[B]

or out loud walking around talking to yourself in public practice on strangers.

[A]

Nobody will think anything of it.

[B]

You'll look totally normal and it will be fine. I think for me it's the. I don't. I like to. For me the forgiveness part works like that is something that works for me and that help. I'm Not. I mean, not forget, like, with. With my dad. My sister and I were talking about when we were kids and he left us for another woman. And how way later in life, decades later, he circled back of, like, I had my priorities wrong. And my sister and I were just talking about it last week in Colorado because I read that book Strangers, and I'm not giving away anything in the book. Like, the premise of the book is the husband leaves their family. And the way he did it was very reminiscent of what my dad did. And I was telling my sister about how when I was reading that chapter, I was picturing us because it was theirs happened during COVID So he had a mask on. And I feel like that's like, the only thing that was different is they were having to keep their distance. And he had a mask on. It was. Whereas mine was 1990. No masks. But I felt for those little girls and their. What their dad was telling them and then why their dad left and how he just left all of his responsibilities, and it was all on the mom. And I'm like, our dad did that. And I don't think I think about that enough that, like, literally there was no custody. No. No. I want the kids on the weekends. No. You know, right now, I Co parent 50 50. And it's like, there's no one week gone. No, there was like, you can have the kids. You can have the house. And if you remember that in the book, yeah, he's like, I'm done. This isn't the life I want. You can have the kids. You can have the house now. He supported financially and then, like, hung out with his kids here and there. And I feel like that's how my dad was. However, I do have compassion for my dad, and I think my dad was overall a good person. My daughter got a tattoo that says. And I'm paraphrasing that. It says, like, every good story has a few bad chapters. And that was something that came up. Like, when my sister and I were talking, my daughter was there with her tattoo, and she read that, and we were like, oh, my gosh, that is so true. And it made us think of our dad, of how he had overall was known to be a really good, caring person, but to, like, his kids and his wives, because there were four wives, it's like, oh, but was he really that? He just did. He made some poor choices. He had his priorities out of whack. But, you know, when he hit his 70s, he started thinking about the kind of life he wanted to live and how he had lived it, and he had some regret, and it was too late. But I think it's. When I think about my half brother, my half sister, my sister and I, and the kind of relationship we had with our dad, even though he handled his leaving my half brother and half sister that way. Like, they got adopted by their new stepdad, and my dad let them. Like, they have a different last name.

[A]

He did that first.

[B]

He did that first because they're older. And I can't imagine if, like, right now, Ben were to get remarried and be like, hey, my new wife wants to adopt the kids. Are you cool with that? I'd be like, no, we good?

[A]

We have a good 50 weight.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You would fight for that. You'd like, absolutely. You wouldn't just say, we're good. You'd be like, are you freaking kidding me?

[B]

Well, I meant, like, we're good the way we are. We're not changing it. Like, there's no need for that. But my dad was sort of like, okay, yeah, I'll punt responsibility to him. Yeah, like, go for it. And the way my half sister and half brother still loved my dad, like, we were all there when we unplugged him, he was on life support. All four of us were there together. And it's like, what he would have wanted was his four kids. Like, he loved us, and it's like somehow we still felt his love, even though we all have this deep wound of abandonment because of him.

[A]

Well, he did abandon you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So anyway, I forgive him. Yeah, It's. Yeah. It's not something I. I get is. It's black and white. And this is simple thing.

[A]

I just want this person that wrote in to know and for everybody to know. You have options. Like, you have options. And think about, like, what each option would give you and why you're feeling called to each option before you're like, I must do this or I must do that. You can still have a cordial relationship with somebody without saying to them. And sometimes it's the language, sometimes this, the word forgiveness or any of that just has a. It can put a bad taste in somebody's mouth because of how they were raised or whatever. So if it doesn't, again, don't worry about it. It sounds like for you, it. That's exactly what you needed.

[B]

Well, and I think it's part of my faith.

[A]

Like, I've had time.

[B]

Yes. And I've had time. Yeah. So. Okay, moving on. Now, this is about abandonment a little bit, kind of. But is it. Have they been ditched.

[A]

This is about abandonment.

[B]

But. But not by a parent.

[A]

About this is by somebody you would,

[B]

you would think would be there for you because you're.

[A]

Well, you think your parents would do but.

[B]

But this person you're paying. Hey, Amy and Kat. I was hoping you guys could help me think through a therapy dilemma I'm having. I've been seeing the same therapist every week for almost six years. I actually didn't realize that wasn't common until Kat mentioned that some therapists don't see clients long term. I have anxiety, ocd, adhd, et cetera. And she's been incredible for me. She's helped me build coping skills to the point where I don't have to rely on medication. And I genuinely love working with her. About a month ago, I skipped a week because work was gonna be busy. During that break, my grandma, who played a huge part in raising me and who I talked to every single day, passed away unexpectedly. I was really struggling, so I emailed my therapist asking if she had any availability sooner than our already scheduled appointment. She didn't, but she sent me some grief resources that honestly helped a lot. So I figured I'd see her at our virtual appointment the following Monday. Except she never showed up. In almost six years, that's never happened. I assumed it was just a scheduling mix up because we'd had the unusual week off, so I emailed her. When I didn't hear back, I followed up a few days later because I was genuinely worried. She apologized and said that she wasn't feeling well and would let me know her availability. I wished her well and figured that explained everything. Later that same night, she replied to my original email and offered to meet me the next day. I wasn't available, so I asked about a couple of other days the following week and I never heard back. That was over two weeks ago. Since my last therapy session, my grandma has died and my cat has been diagnosed with cancer and is now scheduled for a toe amputation. My partner thinks I should start looking for another therapist, but that feels so overwhelming when I already have so much going on. Starting over with someone new feels like the last thing I need right now. The hardest part is that this is so unlike her. She's always been incredibly professional, which honestly makes me wonder if something serious is going on in her own life. At the same time, I'm scared to email her again because I don't know if I'm more afraid of finding out something happened to her or finding out nothing happened and feeling rejected. So my Questions are, is it time to move on and find another therapist? Should I email her one more time? Kat, if you were the therapist in this situation, what would you want your client to do? Thank you both for always giving my brain a break and bringing me so much joy to my life. Have the day you need to have. Alex from DC32PS My grandma recently told me that when she had her five kids throughout the 50s and 60s, they just knocked her out for childbirth. Didn't feel or remember a thing. It was the first time I'd ever heard of that. Too crazy. So she's referring to the twilight births that we were talking about last week or the week before. Now, as for the therapy questions, katt all punt to you since you're the therapist and, like, would you just start ghosting a client ever, or would you just be up front or. Also. Yeah. Did she think of your friend? Remember that. That. That friend of yours that thought she was stood up by a date, but he died?

[A]

Oh, my God. Yes.

[B]

He has a stroke or something. Right.

[A]

Something with his heart.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Well, he was young. It was. He was in his 30s. Yes. Like, you think that's a joke when you're like, did he die like that? I know, but he actually did.

[B]

When I read that part, I was thinking of your friend and she thought, until she found out that he had died, she straight up thought he stood her up.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And she was mad.

[A]

Rightfully so.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I don't think this therapist is dead, though. No. Here's the thing. If I die, there is a protocol for somebody to notify my clients.

[B]

Oh, who? You want me to. What's the process? Do you hire a company?

[A]

Usually it's going to be another person probably working in the field, but I guess it could be you. You just have to have like a. I know, but what's your actual agreement? What.

[B]

What's your plan?

[A]

My plan is to have somebody, a colleague, email all my clients, but you have to have, like, written consent for them to actually access certain records so they know who your clients are so they could let them know. And also you would want them to, like, give resources, too, so you probably wouldn't be the best person to do that because I don't know that you would have the recommendations and resources to give these people.

[B]

True.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

So you're gonna outlive me, so that's fine.

[A]

Well, you never know what could happen. No.

[B]

You're younger than me. We're gonna die of old age. Fair.

[A]

We're both gonna die at three and

[B]

all die first because I'm older.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I like that plan. So her question is mostly, what would I want my client to do? Like, what should she do? One. This is odd. I just want her to know that this is, like, not normal. I do like that she's not totally jumping to conclusions. I think my first thought is, like, how could you do that to a client? But also, like, maybe something is going on, right?

[B]

I mean, it's good she's emailing us and asking. She's not, like, showing up at her therapist's place, like, in the middle of the night, like, are you okay? Why are you not emailing me back? Like, I'm picturing some scene from a show where, like, that would happen of, like, why. Why aren't you emailing me that I need a session.

[A]

So I would email the therapist again, and I would say, hey, just checking in again. And then I would want to talk about this in a session. Because this is going to leave some lingering feelings, whether or not she has. I mean, your therapist doesn't have to tell you exactly. If something is going on with her. She doesn't have to tell you exactly what's going on. But it's fair for you to process some of the feelings that you're feeling right now about feeling abandoned or ghosted or all of that and what you would have needed. I am the first one to admit sometimes I forget to respond to an email. So I actually tell most of my clients in the first session when I explain, like, how to communicate with me, like, versus text, email, phone call, whatever. I will say if I ever don't answer you, please follow up, because that means that I probably just read the email and then couldn't respond the moment and then forgot. So please, please.

[B]

And y' all did get off schedule?

[A]

Yes. So I would email her again. I don't think that that is annoying at all, if that's what you're thinking. Like, you don't want to, like, yeah,

[B]

you've been seeing her for six years. I think I would shoot my shot one more time. And if, like, for that. After that, if you don't hear back, then you show up.

[A]

If she doesn't answer you after this next email, what I would suggest actually is like writing an email about, like, feeling what your feelings are and sending it to her. I think that's very fair. Like, whether you're seeing somebody for six years or not, I think it's there if they're. If the therapist isn't able to give you care.

[B]

Right. I wouldn't keep seeing them anyways.

[A]

Well, right. And there should be some kind of closure. And I think I would leave space for. There's still a world where something has happened where she is not able to respond. And, like, she's not just ignoring you.

[B]

Right. If normally she doesn't behave this way, this could be a clue something is going on in her life. Not only did y' all get off schedule, but who knows in the last two weeks what could have popped up for her? And she's got her head above water treading, trying to, like, just get through. So maybe I. I wouldn't jump ship and go find a new therapist right away. I get that your partner is suggesting that because you probably do need to talk to someone quickly with all that you have going on, but starting over with someone new would be a lot in this season. So I would just maybe have a little more patience for this situation. And then if you get a clear sign, then you may have to.

[A]

Yeah. Move on. When I would. If. If she's not answering you. Yeah. You can find another therapist right now. And then if she ends up answering in the future, you can. And you can repair things. You can always go back to her. But I wouldn't write her off yet.

[B]

Yeah, I wouldn't write it off. Like, there's. I wouldn't even have hard feelings. I would just have curiosity.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, something's clearly up, and I've got a lot going on. And. Yeah, if you want to start. But starting over with somebody new is a lot.

[A]

Yeah, Sometimes it can be good.

[B]

Yeah. Maybe a little.

[A]

Like, you've done that a couple times.

[B]

Yeah, I have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I guess you're right. It's been good. I've never been with anybody six years.

[A]

What I did want to say, it's not uncommon that people are with therapists that long. It just. Not everybody will do it. So I don't want anybody who's like, I've been seeing my therapist for 15 years to feel like they're doing anything wrong. That's just, like, not everybody will do that. But, yeah, this is an unfortunate situation. I would, like you said, curiosity versus jumping to a conclusion because we don't have all the information yet. Give it one last go. That would not be inappropriate of you. And I would want my clients to reach out again, and hopefully you'll get some answers. Hope maybe you've already got an answer. I don't know. But hopefully you'll get some answers, too, and you'll be able to Process what you need to process because. Yeah, a lot has. This is like the timing couldn't be worse.

[B]

I know. I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother. That's not easy. I'm sorry about your cat. I don't know if the toe and the cancer are related, but it's not a lot. You gotta email us back, Alex. And in the meantime, I hope this helps. Yeah. If anything, gave you a little giggle. When we talked about how your friend thought she got stood up, but he really died.

[A]

I was like, what's funny about.

[B]

I know that's not funny either after I said that. But, I mean, it is kind of funny that your friend. It's not like she knew him well. Like, that she thought she was stood up. Is that not funny? Because now I feel bad. And it also happened a while ago. I don't know him. Yeah, it's sad he died.

[A]

I think the story. The. If it was like, just like an antidote. Like, is that how you say that word?

[B]

Antidote?

[A]

Antidote. No, not antidote.

[B]

An ant reaching instead out. What are you saying?

[A]

Is it antidote?

[B]

Anecdote? Oh, yeah, there you go.

[A]

If it was just an anecdote, but if the fact that is somebody did die, that part's not funny.

[B]

But of course not.

[A]

Yeah, shocking. I will say she didn't like criteria. She didn't know the guy.

[B]

Right. That's what I'm saying. Like, I'm not laughing that somebody died. I'm. It's weird that he. Ha ha.

[A]

That she thought she got stood up and you didn't. He probably did want to go out with you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And now she's getting married, so everything is. It's working out for her.

[B]

Yeah. Speaking of getting married, we did get an email.

[A]

That's a really good segue. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

It's my gift wedding confusion because the subject of the email was wedding venue. I want to tell you about nefi, the only needle free epinephrine nasal spray for those who weigh 33 pounds or more. It's used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Nefi works as well as a needle injector and delivers the same trusted epinephrine. It's designed to be safe and easy to use at the first sign of symptoms. So it's in a high stress moment. Your child or someone else can act quickly to treat an allergic reaction, even if you're not there. Nefi is also small, discreet, and easy to carry, including in a backpack, lunchbox, or sports bag. So your child is prepared anywhere the day takes them. Pay as little as $0 for at least four Nephi devices, two packs through the copay Savings program with commercial insurance if eligible. Patients should not pay more than $199 for Nephi.

[A]

If you have medical conditions or take certain medicines, your condition may worsen. Tell your doctor about nasal, heart, thyroid or kidney issues, high blood pressure, Parkinson's, diabetes, if you're pregnant or breastfeeding, and all medications. Side effects include nasal discomfort, headache, runny

[B]

nose, shakiness, and throat irritation. These are not all side effects. Does your child need a new epinephrine prescription or refill? Don't wait. Ask a doctor about needle free Nephi today. Visit nefy.com to learn more. That's n e f f y.com. The subject of the email was wedding venue. Yeah. And so I thought because Kat got married a couple years ago, I'm like, oh, someone's emailing, asking about the venue Kat got married at. So I read the first line. It's like, my fiance and I have been looking at your wedding venue, and that's pretty much all I read because I was like, oh, well, Kat can answer this one. She got married at Clementine, right? And it was so cute. And. And on your Instagram and photos, like, you can see Clementine in letters in the background. So someone may know, oh, that's where she got married. And so I literally did not read the rest of this because I thought it was an email about Clementine. And I was like, I don't know what to say about this. Cat might, like, Kat might be able to share what her experience was like. Did she like it? Was it good? What are the pros, the cons, all this, right? So I'm thinking we'll do that email. And then you were talking to me before we were recording and you were like, I think somebody's confusing our email address with like, a wedding venue. And I'm like, no, no. That person just wants to know the venue where you got married. You can answer it real quick. And then you're like, no, Amy, read it. So this is the email. My fiance and I have been looking at your wedding venue for 2026, as my sister was married at your venue in April this year and we loved it. If you have any wedding packages or pricing you could send through, that would be very much appreciated. Thank you very much. Kind regards, Jessica and Mark. So I don't.

[A]

But here's my question. I have a couple questions about this one.

[B]

How.

[A]

How do they think, hey, there at feeling things.com.

[B]

is it feeling things podcast.

[A]

Podcast.com is a wedding vent. They had to type that in. So I'm confused. Unless they were typing in hey, there. And there was another, like, yeah, it

[B]

was like, hey, there at Clementine, you

[A]

know, but the other.

[B]

But we don't even know that it's Clementine. We don't even know where Jessica lives. Like, I thought, oh, they are getting married in Nashville, and they want to know about Clementine. And now we have no idea.

[A]

Which I would love to tell people because I love my venue. But the other thing that's interesting about this is. Or there's a question that popped into my head. Would you want to get married? This is just, like, I'm curious about your preference. Would you want to get married the same venue that your sister did?

[B]

Yeah, that's fine.

[A]

Oh, you would?

[B]

Yeah. Doesn't bother me.

[A]

Oh, I kind of had strong feelings about that.

[B]

Like, you need your own place.

[A]

Yes, I want to, because my mom.

[B]

What if it was perfect?

[A]

Well, okay.

[B]

Would you get mad if I got married at Clementine?

[A]

No, I don't think that I would be mad if. Okay, we're gonna do this both ways. I would, first of all, not. I want everybody to get married at Clementine because I loved it and I thought it was amazing. And I've never been a guest at a wedding there. I've only gotten married there. So please get married at Clementine. I would probably be flattered if. If I got married first and my sister wanted to get married the same venue as me, but my sister got married before me, and my mom scheduled an appointment, like a tour at her wedding venue. And I was like, I don't want to have the same wedding as my sister. And I was. I really didn't want to go, but my mom was like, let's just go see if we can compare pricing. It was a lot more expensive than Clementine, I'll tell you that. So that kind of solved that issue. But I felt very strongly that, like, I wanted my own thing. So I was just curious if that. Is that just me, how other people would. I mean, obviously this person wants to get married where their sister got married.

[B]

Yeah, I think you wouldn't. It wouldn't bother me. But you. Doesn't bother Jessica. We don't know if it'd bother her sister. Lauren.

[A]

Yeah. Actually, let's check in with your sister first. And also, your sister might have some of the pricing information.

[B]

Jessica's listening.

[A]

She's not. They've never heard of this podcast. But also, they would have to have heard about.

[B]

Yeah. Or emailed us before. Maybe we need to search Jessica's email in our inbox and see if anything's ever come through. Yeah.

[A]

Because she's probably thinking, like, that venue never got back to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like, well, we just aren't. We'd love to hear her.

[B]

So we need to reply to her and let her know. And then also we need to search our. Search her name and our history and see if she comes up so we can be like, and I'm curious, like,

[A]

where do you want to get married?

[B]

What if we find another email from her that's like, so I've been dating this guy Mark, and I don't know if I should marry him because he did this, this, and this. And we're like, no, don't do it. Just kidding. Congratulations, Jessica and Mark, whoever you are out there, we wish you nothing but love and babies. If that's what you want. If that's not what you want, then no babies. No babies. Lots of love and no babies or lots of love and happiness. Happiness. You know, Ashley Lemieux or how do you say her last name?

[A]

I never heard.

[B]

I haven't seen her in years. Like, before COVID I feel like, you know, your life is like, there's like, pre. Covered, BC and AD there's like, PC Pre Covid. She has had some miscarriages, and they have one daughter. And she posted a video the other day of what it's like she's leave one of their babies. Could be more of a stillbirth situation than a miscarriage. I know she's had miscarriages, too, but one was later term, and she was talking about how casually people bring up that they've got their one child if they don't know her story and how they'll be like, oh, did y' all not want more? And I know everybody means well. I shoot, I would even maybe be guilty of this. Of, like, oh, do you want more than one kid? Or do you. And it's just there's so many women out there where it's such a sensitive topic of, you know, nobody, Nobody means any harm. But it just brought it to my attention, too, to have that awareness of when I'm getting curious about if people are going to have kids or if they've only got one. I think I'm more dialed in if people don't have kids, to not say anything. Say anything. Because I went through my own fertility journey and so badly wanted to be pregnant, and people were asking us when we were going to have kids, and that was a little difficult. And again, I know they meant well, but I don't know that I would have that same filter if I see them already with one.

[A]

Because you're like, well, you can have kids.

[B]

I'm like, yeah, you have your one kid. So how many do y' all want? Do you want? And. And for her, it's like, well, we've had three others and they haven't made it, or whatever, however many. And I just thought I. That popped in my head now, so just kind of sharing that. Just for that awareness of. You don't know what people are carrying.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's a good point. You just assume that you've had kids so you can have them, but you don't know what the journey of having that kid was.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like you said, after what happens.

[B]

Yeah. So.

[A]

Well, thank you for that.

[B]

No problem.

[A]

A little therapy at the end, after we talked about this wedding venue.

[B]

Yeah. We got Alex covered with her therapist. Good luck, Jessica and Mark. And then we have our. Our anonymous email about forgiveness. And I think something that I have done with different scenarios in my life is I try to replay what could have been or replay a scenario and try to make it different. Do you ever do that in your mind?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is a very normal thing. Why? What do you.

[B]

I just sometimes will get stuck on the replaying of things or what I could have done differently or what they could have done differently, and that doesn't feel very productive.

[A]

No. You know, this is, like, not. I want to say brain surgery, but, like, this isn't, like, the craziest thing ever, somebody has ever said to me. But for some reason, when this happened, it was so helpful. So years ago, I got in a little legal situation. Somebody got mad about something with uni therapy. My old podcast, they reported me to the board. I've never gotten reported to the, like, board of therapy. It actually is more common than you think, because anybody can just send an anonymous complaint about anybody, and they don't have to have any proof or anything about it, so.

[B]

Which is wild.

[A]

Yeah, it's great. And it's scary. It's scary when you get. You get a letter in the mail, and it's like, oh, no. Like, are they gonna believe me? So it is scary. But I think also the board takes into account that, like, if we're gonna reprimand somebody for something, there needs to be some kind of evidence.

[B]

Proof. Right.

[A]

Anyway, so I Had gotten in. I got this letter in the mail. I called. I immediately called the board. This is a. I'm going to give you guys a word to. A wise. Word to the wise of what not to do. And also tell you this little snippet that helped me. If this happens to you, you can call the board, but take a beat before you do your, like, interview. They interview about the complaint. I didn't know any of this. So the woman was like, okay, we need to schedule an interview to go over what happened. And I was like, oh, we can do that right now. Like, I'm ready. Like, I. I didn't feel like I did anything wrong. Like, I didn't have anything to hide. And so we did it. And I answered some questions, and I guess I answered them in either not a professional way or just I said some things that from a lawyer's perspective, they just wouldn't have said. And so when I did end up, I had to get a lawyer to help me with this. And so when I did get a lawyer, I was telling her what happened, and she basically was like. She said that, like, okay, next time, don't do this. Like, blah, blah, blah. This isn't probably the best thing for you to say. And I. And I kind of got anxiety about it. Like, oh, I didn't know. Like, I didn't really think of how serious this was. I. Whatever, blah, blah. And she said, you know what? Actually, it doesn't matter. You said what you said. You did what you did. We can't go backwards. And so now we're gonna work with what we have at hand. Now all we can do is move forward the way she was. So, like, matter of fact about that was like, it doesn't matter. What you did was what you did, and all we can do is take what you did and move forward with it and figure out what to do next. And I was like, oh, okay, so what do we do? And it was just very helpful. Like, there's. It. It was. And I think sometimes I even give too much space for that. Even in the therapy room with my clients, if I let them kind of ruminate a little bit versus, like, it. We can't do anything about it. You can't change it, you can't undo it, you can't replay it and fix things, but you can move forward with intention. And so why don't we focus on that? And we did. And I spent a lot of money on a lawyer and didn't really actually need anything because they threw out the complaint.

[B]

I Want to tell you about Nephi, the only needle free epinephrine nasal spray for those who weigh 33 pounds or more. It's used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Nefi works as well as a needle injector and delivers the same trusted epinephrine. It's designed to be safe and easy to use at the first sign of symptoms, so in a high stress moment, your child or someone else can act quickly to treat an allergic reaction even if you're not there. Nefi is also small, discreet and easy to carry, including in a backpack, lunchbox or sports bag, so your child is prepared anywhere the day takes them. Pay as little as $0 for at least four Nefi devices two packs through the copay Savings Program with commercial insurance if eligible patients should not pay more than $199 for NEFI.

[A]

If you have medical conditions or take certain medicines, your condition may worsen. Tell your doctor about nasal heart, thyroid or kidney issues, high blood pressure, Parkinson's, diabetes if you're pregnant or breastfeeding and all medications. Side effects include nasal discomfort, headache, runny

[B]

nose, SH shakiness and throat irritation. These are not all side effects. Does your child need a new epinephrine prescription or refill? Don't wait. Ask a doctor about needle free Nephi today. Visit nefy.com to learn more. That's N-E-F-F-Y.com.

[A]

I spent a lot of money on a lawyer and didn't really actually need anything because they threw out the complaint.

[B]

That's so crazy to me that then you're responsible for legal fees like that. It makes me think of the bachelor Clayton guy who's been love trapped by Laura Owens. Yes.

[A]

How he's not going to get any of that money.

[B]

Yeah, I saw his legal fees the other day are over $200,000 but he had like. Yeah, and she is the one lying, right? So she decides that she's pregnant even though she's not and she ropes him into this whole thing and then he has to get legal representation to fight her on it. And it's like wait, why am I getting punished when he didn't do anything? Right? Or if it rolls reverse. Or in your case like you're getting punished financially and having to take all this time, energy and money to handle a situation that ended up being nothing. And in this case she's was never pregnant.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They never actually had intercourse. I feel like case closed.

[A]

Well, they couldn't prove that. I mean it's that's one.

[B]

But even she admitted.

[A]

Yeah, that is. Oh, she did, didn't.

[B]

Yes, she admitted that they didn't. So at that point, if I'm the judge, I'm like, all right, I think

[A]

I don't want to give anything. Well, I'm not going to say what that.

[B]

Because I want to get into a ton of it in the news. It's not like.

[A]

So a lot of times when that stuff happens, you like, if somebody sues you for something and it's like, crazy, and then you have to fight them. You can sue countersoe them and they have to pay your legal fees, but they. If they don't have the money.

[B]

Have the money.

[A]

Right. If they don't have the money, then you're just kind of screwed, which that sucks. I will say this is something I learned and this was just me not thinking and me panicking. Panicking and acting before doing any research. Because I thought that situation that I had, I thought it was like, needed to be handled immediately and there was really no rush. I have malpractice.

[B]

You retained lawyer prematurely, maybe.

[A]

Well, I have malpractice insurance, so I could have called my malpractice insurance and they would have paid for the. I could have got a lawyer through them and it would have been covered through my malpractice. But I wasn't thinking. And so I called a friend and was like, I need a lawyer that deals with this and great lawyer, expensive lawyer. And all she did is. I mean, I. All she did is have one conversation with me on the phone, and it

[B]

was a couple thousand dollars for one conversation.

[A]

And then I think we emailed twice. She was a good lawyer, so I just think that her rate was really high. So I would just. If that ever happens, if you have malpractice insurance, use it. That's what it's for. I was not thinking.

[B]

Do you think if you would have taken a beat and just paused on a lot of that too, it could have eventually, like, how did it get thrown out?

[A]

Because based off of my, like, inner. There was no.

[B]

There was no evidence for it to get thrown. I thought the person just, like, pulled and decided, oh, no, they wanted.

[A]

I think they really wanted me to get in trouble, but there was no evidence of me doing anything wrong, so they have to throw it out.

[B]

Why was that person so against you?

[A]

I don't know if I could say,

[B]

okay, dang, we don't wanna. I listen, I don't want to pay a lawyer.

[A]

And it wasn't even. What was crazy, is it? Wasn't even so much against me. It was against somebody else that. And. And I was attached to that person, so they went after both of us. So anyway, that was fun. I learned a lot through that experience, I will say that. So thank you for filing that complaint,

[B]

because now, you know, maybe it's going to save you from something even. Yep. More. And I just want to go down the line.

[A]

Yeah. It's any therapist or helping profession, person like this happens. Nobody talks about it when it happens, because sometimes you can feel like, oh, my gosh, this is, like, shameful or whatever, but it actually happens to more people than you think because of just. Anybody can write a complaint about anybody. A podcast listener or somebody who doesn't like our podcast could complain to the board about me and make something up.

[B]

Well, I sure hope not.

[A]

Well, yeah, I hope not, too. But, like, anybody could do it.

[B]

I'll be your witness because I'm by your side every episode.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To my knowledge. Also, we have a disclaimer at the beginning of our couch talks.

[A]

Well, they could make a complaint. They could pretend that they're a past client or something. You know what I mean? Like, anybody can. This is not to give anybody ideas. Yeah, but it just is. I think that's why don't panic, because people have to have evidence to get you in trouble for. Unless you're Clayton, I guess.

[B]

Yeah, man. Tomorrow, I get to listen to another episode. So I'm listening to Love Trapped one episode, like, every two weeks, because I listen to it at my lash appointments, and I don't want to cheat on it with my lash person. Amy. We're both named Amy. We're both listening to it, and we're making our way.

[A]

I was gonna say, I think that you're gonna still be listening to this by the time I have this baby. I really do.

[B]

Yeah. But I am starting to see things online, so I get a general idea what happens. But the podcast just takes a deeper dive into the whole situation and has audio from court, and it is wild where she's like, judge, do. Can I show. Can I stand up and show my pregnant belly? I saw that clip on Instagram the other day. Obviously, I listened to one of it in the podcast, but it's different to, like, see the actual footage of her from the Zoom Court. Is it Zoom On Court?

[A]

I. I don't know.

[B]

Like, video from the video trial where she's, like, trying to stand up and clearly show that she has a belly, but then the woman judge is like, no, we're good. And I was like, oh, was she wearing a prosthetic?

[A]

Yeah, she must.

[B]

Or she was very, very bloated. I think she had on a prosthetic because she wasn't pregnant.

[A]

Yeah, you can. Those are easy to come by.

[B]

Yeah. That's what. On maternal instinct, she ordered a prosthetic.

[A]

That. That's another whole can of worms.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Don't you think if you were the husband, you would be like, let me feel the. Your belly?

[B]

Yeah. Especially if my friends were speculating or there was even an ounce of me thought, like, I would be like, take your shirt off.

[A]

Right. Or like, are they never shout?

[B]

Like, no, he said they weren't intimate.

[A]

I know, but I don't. Not even think about, like, showering with each other. But, I mean, sometimes Patrick's in the shower, and I have to get something out of the bathroom.

[B]

Yeah. Like. Or when you're sleeping at night, be like, tickle, tickle. And if she's like, what are you doing? Nothing. Just seeing what's on there in your belly. And then, like, rip it off and be like, aha.

[A]

I think there's a part of me that thinks that he might have known more than he did do. Or do you think.

[B]

No and, like, that he was in denial or what? Like, I think he's just kind of. I think he. I think he wanted his piece of land, and she Right. Buy it for him, and he was oblivious to a lot of things.

[A]

Well, I think you're half of that is where I. This is speculation. This is me not. I'm not being a therapist right now. I'm just talking as a human being. But I do think she was giving him so much. It was in his benefit to go along. Now I don't. Do not think he thought what happened was gonna happen.

[B]

Oh, gosh, no.

[A]

But I think he was playing along with her game because it was really working out for him in the moment. You know, he didn't have to do anything.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

But sorry if I'm. If I'm wrong. Wade, I am so sorry. And you know what? We got some other things to talk about.

[B]

And Team Clayton. Never thought I'd say that.

[A]

Did you watch him on the Bachelor?

[B]

No, but just when I go to his page from time to time to see if there's anything new, and then he's just awkwardly dancing in the mirror or doing whatever, and he become a hip hop dancer. He is a hip hop dancer. And I will say he's sort of grown on me. I kind of thought he was, you know, it just wasn't my cup of

[A]

tea a little cheesy maybe?

[B]

Yeah, a little. Yeah. But poor guy.

[A]

Yeah, he's very different from the Wade situation. Like.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for sending in your emails. And if you're looking for a wedding venue, we recommend clementine. Although we cannot provide a price quote. You can hit us up at hey [e-mail] or you can call and leave us a voicemail. 877-207-2077. We hope you have the day you need to have. Bye.

[A]

Bye. All new drinks are now at McDonald's with refreshers like the Strawberry Watermelon Refresher and the Mango Pineapple Refresher with popping Boba to crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry Blast with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire six? All new drinks are here now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain caffeine. This is an Iheart podcast. Guaranteed human.