FEELING THINGS - Your Questions, Our Answers: Friendship, ADHD, Al-Anon & More (Couch Talks)

Summary

The Bobby Bones Show: FEELING THINGS - Your Questions, Our Answers: Friendship, ADHD, Al-Anon & More (Couch Talks)
Hosts: Amy & Kat
Date: May 31, 2026

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Episode Overview

This "Couch Talks" episode of the Feeling Things podcast (a segment within The Bobby Bones Show) is a warm, candid Q&A driven by listener-submitted questions and emails. Amy and Kat dive deeply into personal and community advice on a variety of heartfelt topics: friendship dynamics, book recommendations, experiences with ADHD, understanding Al-Anon, and more. Their conversation weaves humor, empathy, and practical wisdom, addressing common issues with their signature blend of vulnerability and relatability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Book Recommendations & The Paradox of Choice

(03:13–11:20)

• Listener Email: Maya/Mahaya from Oklahoma recommends How to Not Know by Simone Stoltzoff, relating it to the “paradox of choice”—the overwhelming feeling from too many decisions. She shares her struggle with overanalyzing and a comforting maxim from her father:

  "Nothing is permanent. Well, besides permanent marker and tattoos on a white counter..." (04:09)

• Book Rec Tangents: Kat and Amy discuss “dirty sodas,” drawing a humorous parallel to life’s little surprises and messes (permanent marker incidents, burned countertops, etc.).

• Other Book Shoutouts:

  • Verity by Colleen Hoover (a thriller with "smutty" content, so use discretion for younger listeners!)
  • These Precious Days and The Dutch House by Ann Patchett, including a shoutout to Parnassus Books, Patchett’s Nashville bookstore:

    "I didn't know that was opened by an author." - Amy (11:09)

2. Navigating Changing Friendships

(11:38–28:13)

• Growing Distant from Friends: Responding to a question on handling growing distance with friends, Kat and Amy discuss natural friendship ebbs and flows, the importance of intentional communication, and the reality that:

  "Nothing is permanent, not even your friendships." – Kat (12:29)

• Friendship “Capacity”: Referencing therapist Blake Blankenbecler, Amy reminds listeners:

  "We only have the capacity for, like, five or six deep friendships at a time." (13:43)

• Friendship Styles: They discuss “low-maintenance” vs “high-maintenance” friendship expectations, and how some friendships can withstand long gaps, while others require consistent contact.

• Friendships in Different Life Stages: Amy and Kat reflect on how their friendship endured different life milestones (marriage, kids, divorce, dating) because it was never based solely on life stage:

  "Our friendship is not contingent upon our lifestyles." – Kat (21:51)

• Advice for Listeners:

  • Be proactive: If you sense distance, reach out and have a curious, gentle check-in.
  • Use “I” statements to reduce defensiveness and focus on your experience.
  • Normalize grieving the loss of a friendship—it's often a silent process.
  • Consider writing an actual letter to reconnect (see Emily’s email, 44:00+).

3. Communication & Restoring Friendships

(26:52–28:13)

• Kat shares a personal story about restoring a friendship through honest conversation, highlighting the importance of clearing up misunderstandings and “checking out” the stories we tell ourselves.

• Amy summarizes:

  "...the more distance happens, what we do is we make up stories of what happened. So checking in and making sure there isn’t a story..." (27:32)

4. Al-Anon: What to Expect & Overcoming Fears

(29:05–35:06)

• What is Al-Anon?: A support group for people affected by someone else’s alcoholism/addiction.

  "You don’t go there to bash your qualifier...the comforting thing is hearing from others with similar experiences." – Kat (29:33)

• First Time Anxiety: Amy and Kat give practical encouragement for newcomers:

  • Every meeting is different—try six before deciding if it’s for you.
  • You don’t have to talk; just listen if you prefer.
  • Vulnerability and authenticity are essential ("keep your side of the street clean").

• Key Takeaway: Al-Anon helps you recognize your own contributions to chaos (often codependency) and offers community and tools for healing.

• Quote:

  “I learned my contribution to the chaos for a fact. And I was like, oh, that’s interesting. And a lot of times that’s codependent behavior.” – Kat (33:43)

5. Favorite ADHD Hacks

(38:32–43:26)

• Favorite Hack: Body doubling, or working alongside someone (in-person or even over FaceTime) to maintain focus, especially on less enjoyable tasks.

  “It’s called body doubling or mirroring...I will tackle so much if I’ve got somebody there…” – Kat (39:03)

• Other Habits:

  • Using map/navigation apps while getting ready to preview travel time and avoid lateness.
  • Amy suggests “Waze” for trip planning and being on time.

6. The Joys of Old-Fashioned Connection

(44:00–46:07)

• Listener Email - Emily: Inspired by The Correspondent, Emily is motivated to rekindle the art of letter writing to old friends:

  "This book has also inspired me to send this email, something very out of character for me to do...In this case, you both feel like old friends to me." – Emily (44:00+)

• The hosts encourage sending letters as a meaningful act of reconnection.

7. Upcoming and Unanswered Listener Questions

(46:07–47:03)

• A listener asked for advice on dealing with a narcissistic boss; Amy and Kat plan a dedicated episode for this important topic.

8. Relationship Update – “The Mug Story”

(47:03–50:52)

• Kat shares a humorous, tender update on her breakup with her boyfriend—prompted by his well-intentioned but impersonal coffee mug gift.

  “I just didn’t feel seen.” – Kat (48:15)

  • This sparks a larger reflection on why thoughtful gifts matter and how relationships sometimes end for subtle reasons.

• Reinforcing the episode’s theme, they close with:

  “Nothing’s permanent.” – Kat & Amy (50:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s like we’re having a big conversation with everybody.” – Kat (03:35)
• "The best thing you can do, just stop and feel things." – Show Theme (02:42)
• “Nothing is permanent.” – Amy (several times; episode leitmotif)
• "Write them a letter. Because how cool to get a letter and send it out of nowhere." – Amy (45:20)
• “It felt good to talk about.” – Kat (28:18)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Book Recommendations/Paradox of Choice: 03:13–11:20
• Friendship Dynamics/Distance: 11:38–28:13
• Restoring Friendships & Communication: 26:52–28:13
• Al-Anon Experiences: 29:05–35:06
• ADHD Hacks: 38:32–43:26
• Letter Writing as Connection: 44:00–46:07
• Relationship Update (“The Mug Story”): 47:03–50:52

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Tone & Language

Amy and Kat bring warmth, humor, and empathy, sharing personal vignettes mixed with actionable advice. The conversational, confiding tone feels like joining two caring friends on a living room couch—sometimes vulnerable, often funny, always real.

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Summary Takeaways

• Embrace the impermanence of circumstances, decisions, and relationships—life changes, and that’s okay.
• Meaningful connection takes intentionality and communication. Don’t shy away from reaching out, whether it’s a check-in text or an old-school letter.
• In friendship and life, get curious, use “I” statements, and normalize grieving connection losses.
• Support groups like Al-Anon and strategies like body doubling can offer powerful tools, comfort, and perspective.
• Most importantly: “Have the day you need to have.”

Transcript

[Amy]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

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[Cal Penn]

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[Amy]

While we hope Couch Talks can be a tool that helps and supports wherever you are in life, Couch Talks does not serve as a replacement or substitute for therapy or any mental health services.

[Podcast Host (Amy and Kat's co-host)]

If you ever have feelings and you just want some. Maybe a cat got you covered like a nun brother. Ladies and fellas, we just follow in the spirit where it tell us from the real stuff to the chill stuff and the in between. Sometimes the best thing you can do, just stop and feel things. This is Feeling Things with Amy and Kat.

[Kat]

Happy Thursday. Welcome to Couch Talks, Our listener Q and A episode to the Feeling Things podcast. I'm Amy.

[Amy]

And I'm Kat.

[Kat]

And we're gonna kick things off with some questions that we put up on our Instagram from a question box. But we're gonna intertwine emails.

[Amy]

Ooh.

[Kat]

For example, we got a question. What's the next book rec? We haven't had one in a couple of weeks. Well, guess what? We're gonna take a book rec from a listener because it's an email that we got.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Kat]

You see what I did there? All right, you can put them together. Yeah.

[Amy]

It's like we're having a big conversation with everybody.

[Kat]

Everybody. Yeah. It's like this person asked it over here, but this person's in the end from over there. So whoever asked that? Because I guess on Instagram we didn't write down names, but I do have the emailer. This is coming from and excuse me, I don't know exactly how to say your name, but is it Maya or Mahaya? Both of those seem m a H a Y A. She's 40 years old, coming to us from Muskogee Nation in Oklahoma.

[Amy]

It's a lot of hard things to say.

[Kat]

Hey, Amy and Kat. I was just reading over your newsletter. I haven't listened to the episode yet and wanted to share a book recommendation that immediately came to mind and is related to the paradox of choice. I didn't know that feeling of having too many decisions even had a name. Name it. To name it. The book is titled how to Not Know, and it's written by Simone Stoltzoff. His work sounds so helpful. He talks about using uncertainty as an advantage instead of something to avoid. I haven't read the book yet. I've only listened to him on another podcast, but it's on my list. I am certainly someone who will overanalyze and try to predict potential outcomes until I worry myself sick. It's something I'm also trying to work on. Kat. I guess she wanted to tell you that since you worry a lot. I have to remind myself of what my dad told me once that has stuck with me through the years. Nothing is permanent. Well, besides permanent marker and tattoos on a white counter that I haven't been able to get out. You can get tattoo removal.

[Amy]

Well, it's really expensive. But wait, did you draw on your counter?

[Kat]

Kids did permanent marker. I had two white coffee tables at my old house that were in the center of the room, and they were coloring on something, and it went through the paper and through the table, and I tried to use magic eraser to get it out. And it.

[Amy]

How. Who gives children permanent markers to color with? I'm sorry. That's so judgmental.

[Kat]

Well, I don't. I'm not saying. I said, here, do this. And then I didn't. I didn't. They probably didn't think through that it was going to go through the paper onto the table.

[Amy]

Okay, I get it. It's not like they, like, got off the paper.

[Kat]

No, it bled. It bled through.

[Amy]

Yeah. Okay. Sorry. I take back my judgment of you. That was very.

[Kat]

I think the parent gives that to their kid. It's not actually me giving it to them. It's them going into a drawer and then finding it coloring with the permanent marker.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

And then it's like, whoopsies, Sorry, Mom. Probably shouldn't do that again. You learn that stuff the hard way. The permanent marker. Or like my kids when they first started using the kettle on the stove, and then they would put the. The kettle down on the countertop. And if it's granite, no problem.

[Amy]

But if it's not.

[Kat]

If it's not, then it's gonna damage it a little bit. Anyway, back to the email. Nothing is permanent. It sounds so simple, but it always takes some weight off decision making. If you bought a stroller you ended up not liking, well, what's the worst that could happen? You'd sell it on Facebook Marketplace and purchase a different one. Oh, well, I don't think the baby will mind. Simone's book sounds promising with lots of good tools, so I wanted to share it with you guys. I hope it's helpful. Thank you both for sharing your friendship with the community. Thank you for sharing your email with the community. I am among the many women who find the wide range of topics and discussions interesting, fun, and helpful. I am often listening while driving down the road and laughing out loud by myself, which is a great place to be if you ask me. Especially with a dirty Dr. Pepper in hand from McDonald's. Hope you have the day. You need to have your friend Maya or Mahaya or Ma. Ya did.

[Amy]

Did I make this up? Did you have a dirty Diet Coke phase or something?

[Kat]

I did a dirty Diet Coke on my Instagram. So you saw Me trying it.

[Amy]

Okay. Were you fan or.

[Kat]

I think it's fine.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Kat]

I think occasionally it's gonna hit the spot if I'm looking for it, but I'm not doing a dirty soda every

[Amy]

cream day right in your.

[Kat]

Well, me, I did vanilla protein shake in my Diet Coke.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Kat]

So I don't know if she put cream in her dirty Dr. Pepper or if she put a vanilla protein shake. That's the only dirty ones I've seen online is when it's a vanilla protein shake.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Kat]

But I guess cream could work.

[Amy]

I haven't tried it, so I shouldn't say that it.

[Kat]

So this book recommendation is how to not know we haven't read it. I don't even know that we're officially recommending it because she hasn't read it yet, but it is on her list. I will say Kat and her husband recommended a book to me, and I was shook it as I was listening to it, because y'.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

All.

[Kat]

Y' all listen to it together. And it is explicit at times, to say the least.

[Amy]

I think I kind of forgot how much descriptive and how. What do they call those books? What do they call Smut? Smut. Yeah.

[Kat]

Oh, smut.

[Amy]

But I forgot about that until I had recommended the book to my mom, and I was like, mom read this book because they're making it into a movie and we can go see the movie together. And then she texted me like, a couple days later and said, I just saw the trailer for this book, and I don't think that's a movie we should see together because it is. There's a lot of. There's a lot of sex. Verity is you wanted to call it. Yeah, it is so good.

[Kat]

It's a Colleen Hoover book. She's an amazing writer. And yes, it is really good. It shocked me a lot of ways. So I will say that it's just. Yeah. If you're listening to it, just make sure there's not little ears around.

[Amy]

We would listen to. We started listening to On a road trip, and then to finish it, we would, like, go walk a trail by our house that was very crowded. So it was kind of one of those. I mean, if you listen to it in public, it's even like reading a book like that in public. It's like, if people only knew what was like in our ears as we're, like, walking down this trail. But the movie is going to have Anne Hathaway and Dakota Johnson. It looks so good. It looks really scary or creepy, I think suspenseful, which the book I Don't. I don't know that I felt it was. That it wasn't. I wasn't scared.

[Kat]

There were moments where I. Yeah, it was very. It was ominous at times.

[Amy]

It's a thriller. Yeah.

[Kat]

Because. Yeah, I feel like. Is that the word?

[Amy]

Yeah, I think so.

[Kat]

We also got a pss, part of an email that has some book recommendations. Like, that's not what the email is about at all. And. And I'll get to the email later. But since we're talking about books Emily had written in, is it PSS or pps? Because she put pps. But I always do PS and then pss.

[Amy]

I think I do a ss, but I don't even know what the P or the S mean.

[Kat]

Postscript. Oh, I learned that when I was reading the Correspondent.

[Amy]

Well, then the P would make sense. That should be post. Post.

[Kat]

Oh, yeah. Why have I always been doing pss?

[Amy]

It sounds better.

[Kat]

Postscript. Script.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Okay. Pps Book recommendations from Emily. These Precious Days by Ann Patchett. And once you've read that, I suggest the Dutch House by Anne as well. She has a bookstore in Nashville that is a wonderful place I think you'd love. Which I do love. It's Parnassus Books in Green Hills.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

I didn't know that was opened by an author.

[Amy]

I thought it was just a random book lover.

[Kat]

Family bookstore. Yeah. So that's really cool.

[Amy]

So when you own a bookstore and

[Kat]

you put the book, you put it front and center.

[Amy]

Oh, yes.

[Kat]

You're number one bestseller always and forever. So thank you for your PS And I'll get to the rest of Emily's email later. You want to hit up another question that we got?

[Amy]

Okay. This one I feel like we both can answer. You don't have to be a therapist to answer this. How to handle growing distant from friends you don't want to be distant from. I feel this personally.

[Kat]

Because you're pregnant.

[Amy]

No.

[Kat]

Oh. But I didn't know when. When you go into new chapters in life that other people are maybe not in.

[Amy]

Okay, okay, that makes sense. I was thinking of other things, but now I'm doubling thinking out of this too. So I, I. The reason I feel this is. I mean, we've talked before how we have, like, friends for different seasons and different reasons and all that. You don't have to have a falling out to. For a friendship to just grow apart and.

[Kat]

Oh yeah, according to our email. Or nothing is permanent,

[Amy]

not even your friendships. And I think that is like. We actually got another question that maybe we can answer at the Same time that I said, how do you and I handle our friendship and keep our friendship when we're in such different stages of life? So I think that kind of goes together. But I think when you're growing distant from a friend that you don't want to grow distance from, I mean, I don't know the. The context of this person, but in my life, what I have tried to implement is if I notice that there is some shift in the friendship, I explore it. Like, I reach out and I try to connect to that person. And if there is something that has happened, then we talk about it. And if that person doesn't respond and we just find it harder and harder to, like, connect and be with each other, then there's a grieving process. And I try to also hold that how you're saying, nothing is permanent right now. We might be growing distant, but who knows, in two years we might reconnect in some way. We might be brought together again in some way. And I felt this from friends that when you share certain, like, if friends that you work with or friends that you go to the same gym with, or friends that you do something that kind of like automatically keeps you connected.

[Kat]

Right.

[Amy]

It's really easy to. To disconnect from those friends when then you have to put in all the effort. And sometimes that effort is. Is not manageable. And I don't mean that in like a. They're not worth it. It just isn't. You have. I don't know who I heard this from. Probably Blake Blecken Becker, who is a therapist, and she specializes in friendship. She was saying how we only have the capacity for, like, five or six deep friendships at a time. And I think it's helpful to wrote remember that when we are worried about keeping all of our connections as strong as they've always been all the time that you only have the capacity for five or six. And so other friendships might become distant, but that doesn't mean that they're gone. Like, it doesn't mean I have to write this person off.

[Kat]

Right. And it depends on your needy level of the friendship. Both people.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Because like, my best friend Andrea from high school, we met when we were 13. I can go months without talking to her, but, like, I'll either go back to Austin or she'll plan a trip here, or I saw her in Austin for I Heart Country Fest. She comes every year. I get her and her husband tickets, and I see them and we. We pick right back up.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Or we'll have a phone call and we pick right back up. I think that some people couldn't have a friendship like that. Like they would need to talk more consistently to pick right back up. My sister and I are the same way. And my sister's like that with her high school bff. She's still friends with them. In fact, her. One of them happens to live in Nashville now. And she came over to my house about a month or so ago and we went on a walk and then we FaceTimed my sister. But on our walk she was like, I haven't talked to your sister in forever. And they would still be there for each other no matter what. And I mean they met when they were 14. So there's some friendships that wouldn't be able to survive that and pick right back up. Or some people, they, they wouldn't.

[Amy]

Right.

[Kat]

They wouldn't be able to do that well.

[Amy]

And I'm thinking of friendships that have kind of faded that have been those situational friendships. I don't want it to feel like those were not as important. But sometimes those situations are what bonds you versus you have this bond with Andrea that is very different. Like you have life.

[Kat]

Yeah. That's an example of a lifelong friendship. I just think in even a someone that's come into your life more recently, if you've got that vibe with someone where there's that longevity, that vibe can also be there for somebody. Like even if you. Someone that you were friends more casually with and then three months go by, but you still pick right back up. Like hey, but there are people that have way more high maintenance type friendship expectations.

[Amy]

Right. I think that's really important is making sure that you match the same. So how do you think we. I've never thought about this question with us, which is interesting. How do you think we maintain a friendship being in different life stages?

[Kat]

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[Cal Penn]

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[Ray Porter]

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[Cal Penn]

Listen to Irsay the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy]

How do you think we maintain a friendship being in different life stages? I guess we are in different life stages, but I've never really considered considered that. I know, like, you have teenage kids and I.

[Kat]

You have like a grapefruit baby.

[Amy]

But for the majority of me knowing you, I didn't have kids at all. I wasn't married. You were married at one point.

[Kat]

I know. And then you got married. Then you worst. And then I started dating.

[Amy]

Yeah, there's been a lot of different stages.

[Kat]

Well, because I don't think our friendship is contingent upon our lifestyles.

[Amy]

Yeah, it never was. Maybe that's what it is. It didn't ever start that way. We always were in a different life stage.

[Kat]

Right.

[Amy]

So we connected on different things.

[Kat]

We. Yeah. And like my family has always been welcome in your world and of course you'd be welcome too. But I think you have your parents here and everything. Like even my ex husband and kids and I went out to your parents lake house.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

And you were just dating Patrick at the time. Right.

[Amy]

That was their first summer dating.

[Kat]

Yeah. Yeah. So we were in totally different stages, but we just blended our lives.

[Amy]

Yeah. So I think it's probably harder to maintain that for people when you. Your friendship starts because you're in the same stage, which I've felt that with friends that have gotten married before I was married or had kids before I was. Had kids. Is our. Our friendship is based off of us being in the same place and doing the same things and being able to, you know, do whatever we want whenever we want. And then when that changes, the dynamic changes. But our dynamic was always different.

[Kat]

Right. And I do like that you, you know, said you gotta. You would get curious. Yeah. I think that's how you said it. You would. Yeah.

[Amy]

Ask check in.

[Kat]

I think it's okay to do a check in and then at some point, if the vibe isn't vibing or they haven't spoken up and said anything, I think it's okay to ask directly.

[Amy]

Oh, yeah.

[Kat]

And then you'll get your answer. Hopefully if they can be honest and share with you what's been going on and if the sale is shifting, then. Yeah. Go with the wind.

[Amy]

I had to do that recently.

[Kat]

Where go with the wind.

[Amy]

I'm not sure if I'm going with the wind yet, but check fighting it. Yeah. Well, I had. I had felt the distance, and so I did it a check in. And this is where I think also we have to have boundaries. And why I said it's important to also be prepared to grieve something.

[Kat]

Yes.

[Amy]

Too is I did the check in, I got a response. And now my game plan is like, see what happens if that response matches with the. The action. So I'm seeing if I need to go with the wind or if the friendship is going to pick back up. And if I have to go with the wind, then I'll have to probably grieve that.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

That sucks.

[Kat]

I. I believe Blake talks about this. Somebody else did, and I can't remember who it is. What is her name?

[Amy]

We can just give all friendship credit to Blake.

[Kat]

Yeah. Surely this is from Blake. Mourning the loss of a friendship isn't as public as we are with breakups. Like, when you break up with a boyfriend, it's shared, it's talked about. It's this thing like, oh, we broke up. But when friendships end, it's quiet.

[Amy]

Well. And you get more support.

[Kat]

With the boyfriend breakup. Yeah. And with the friendship one, there's Something. There's just a different energy about it. And maybe if we talked about it more, it would become more acceptable. But then, like, for me, with friendships, which I haven't had that many, quote, unquote, end, but in friendships where it is that decision has been made, I feel protective of. Like, I don't. That's not the thing I want to talk about. But a ending of a relationship, I don't mind saying, because it's almost like, because you had this status of girlfriend, but you have the label with friend friends with multiple people. I guess some people have no problem talking about the end of their friendship and they would want to do it, but, like, I just feel like, oh, that seems really personal and.

[Amy]

But you would talk about it within your other close friends.

[Kat]

Yeah. You just wouldn't put it public and announce.

[Amy]

Yes.

[Dr. Teals Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Announce it.

[Kat]

You don't change your.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Your status.

[Amy]

Yeah. I was gonna say it feels kind of that, and maybe it's just because we don't do it. It feels weird and it feels unnecessary to announce that. But also, you could. I guess you could say that about.

[Kat]

Well, and also going through a divorce. I think you naturally lose relationships because of that. I feel like there's certain relationships my husband had where there was people that I would talk to all the time, and I've known them just as long, but I feel like he sort of got them in the divorce. But if I were to see them or talk to them, everything would be totally fine. Like, I don't have bitter feelings. I just don't see them anymore. Like, we would vacation together. We experienced all kinds of life together, and our kids are friends, but that's his side. So you lose relationships that way, too.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

And there's a grieving that's really silent.

[Amy]

That's like double silent. It's like, I can't even talk about it because it just was the natural progression of our divorce versus something happened between y'. All.

[Kat]

Yeah. I had a friendship restoration, which I talked about on the podcast a couple of years ago with a really close friend and college roommate. Even lived with her after that. And our families all went to Young life camp together. And while we were there, we set time aside, and for a few hours, we went and talked, and we're like, what happened? Like, we just drifted apart. And she had some stories in her head and I had some stories in mine, and we cleared the air, and now we text more regularly. We don't see each other all the time, but now there's that. Now that the air has been cleared. Like, we'll text each other, no problem. Or send each other a random voice text. Like, hey, I was just thinking about you just checking in.

[Amy]

Well, that's actually really good advice. I'm glad you brought that up. Because for the person that wrote the question about what do I do about a friendship growing distant, part of the check in is checking out. Like, because the more distance happens, what we do is we make up stories of what happened. So checking in and making sure there isn't a story that somebody has in their head or you didn't do something that somebody just didn't realize they did. So then that could be the thing that fixes the distance that, like, oh, that's not true. I'm so glad we talked about this. Now we can go on like normal versus being silent and continuing those stories for the rest of time. And then the stories get even worse and worse and worse and worse.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

So thanks for saying that.

[Kat]

So we have no idea if that would help you, but good luck.

[Amy]

It felt good to talk about.

[Kat]

Hopefully what you take away from that is if you haven't already gotten curious, get curious and ask questions in a, like, I don't want to say a loving way, but what's the word I'm looking for? Like, not where they're not a curious, what Curious, kind, caring way so that the other person's not on the defense.

[Amy]

Yes.

[Kat]

Because I think we could. You could approach it like, what's the deal? Why are you. Why are you never talking to me?

[Amy]

I think that's where you stay on your side, where I feel this I. Is there something that I've done or just staying with the I statements or I, I made up these stories in my head versus why aren't you talking to me? Like, I feel a distance. Is there something I'm missing? I would love to know. Like, stuff like that.

[Kat]

Right. When you say eye stuff and like, your side of the street, that makes me think of Al Anon. So I'll go to the next question that we got about that someone sent in. Can Amy talk more about Al Anon? I'm wanting to go, but I'm scared. So first I'll just affirm your fear around it. I get it. Anytime you're trying to go anywhere new, especially a vulnerable place where you're there with another. A group of strangers, I would say the most comforting thing for me.

[Amy]

Will you say what Al Anon is,

[Kat]

Is that you're with a group of strangers that are going through something very similar to you because you're there because you have a qualifier which is the person that gets you to these meetings, which, it's a place for family and friends of people that are impacted by alcoholism and addiction. So you go, you don't go there to bash your qualifier. In fact, you're not allowed to. If you have a good leader, they'll. They state the rules, they'll redirect, and you know, of course you're qualified. Might be a part of something you share. And also you don't have to share. Other people may stand up and share. But to me, that was the comforting thing, was hearing from other people and hearing the challenge they had that day or that week. And sometimes it would be very similar to maybe what I was experiencing. And then someone else would share some wisdom. And then whatever the group discussion was, I never left a meeting, like, thinking, oh, well, that was a waste of time. I always leave with a little more wisdom, a little more insight, a little more compassion, empathy, understanding, more guidance. And these are tools that will help you get through whatever situation has qualified you to attend. Because if you're wanting to go, you clearly have something or someone more specifically in your life that is the cause of this. And you need tools to survive what you're going through. And Al Anon is a place where you can not only find community and comfort, but you can find tools. And I'm not saying it's for everybody. You may go and be like, oh, this is a terrible meeting. Well, perhaps you seek out a different meeting because there's multiple. There's all kinds of kinds. Like there's. I prefer. There's a women's group that meets in Nashville. That's one I feel the best at. I've hopped in on Zoom ones before. You could ask around. But then the more you get to know people, the, the more you get to know people in that community, the easier it will be for you to find resources within the community.

[Amy]

Yeah, I, I think the general rule of thumb is try six meetings before you say, I'm never going back.

[Kat]

That's the one place.

[Amy]

Yeah, well, well, I would even say six meetings in general, if that feels like overwhelming to you. Because like you said, there's so many different types of meetings that you might hate the co ed open one, but you might love the women's group or you might. You. It might be too much for you to go to the in person one. It overwhelmed you and so Zoom you really like. So I would keep trying until you go to six meetings. And then also I like that you said you don't have to talk.

[Kat]

No, you don't have to talk. You go around and everybody says your name.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

And they'll say, hi, Amy. That's quick, though. And if you don't want to be Amy that day. Okay. Use your middle name. Like, whatever you know, or whoever. If you. I. I say you approach it with honesty, like, I don't want. That's why I said maybe your middle name. It's like, still you, but.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Because I think you need to go into those places willing to show up vulnerable as you are. And I think if you try to show up being somebody else, that's not. You're already inauthentic to the whole thing. That's supposed to be you showing up as your most authentic self. And what am I? Big takeaways from. When I started, that was my side of the street. And that's why when you said that made me think of it. Because you learn how to keep your side of the street clean. And it's easy when you're in those situations. Just want to keep blaming your qualifier all the time.

[Amy]

It was so easy.

[Kat]

Yeah. Because.

[Amy]

And I. You also have to be open because I think this is not always the case. But like you're saying, it's easy to just place the blame on the other person. We're also often enabling or doing something or there is something on our side of the street that we can focus on. And the more we can focus on that, the easier I think it also gets.

[Kat]

Oh, yeah. I learned my contribution to the.

[Amy]

It's kind of hard. Yeah.

[Kat]

To. There's chaos there.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

And I learned my contribution to the chaos for a fact. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And a lot of times that's codependent behavior.

[Amy]

And that when at first you might be like me. Not. This is not my problem.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

But I think also seeing all the other people paying attention to their side of the street helps release that, like, shame or. Or resistance to doing that. And so it's very helpful.

[Kat]

And you may be in a room full of. Well, there's a variety. There's gonna be a variety of people, but, like, in my experience, there might be someone brand new for the first day, and then also a woman that has been there for 40 years. So you've got this wealth of wisdom mixed with. You know, I would still consider myself like a youngin in it, you know, but you've got. You're like, oh, okay. It's almost like a net for me. It's like oh, I've got this net here of community and some of the friends that I have from there, like we'll go to lunch or we have a text chain and if somebody has something come up, like we'll text each other or they'll be like, hey, are y' all going to a meeting this week? Because I want to go. But they've been going consistently. But sometimes they also need a buddy to be like, hey, can you go? Like, I don't think I'm going to go this week unless somebody goes with me. Or like I'm needing that extra, like, accountability. Accountability.

[Amy]

Which makes me think of another question.

[Kat]

What?

[Amy]

What's your favorite ADHD hack?

[Bowen Yang]

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[Cal Penn]

Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary Massive Sci Fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

[Ray Porter]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo. Is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that deeply, emotionally affected me and I Left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too.

[Cal Penn]

Listen to Irsay the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Kat]

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[Amy]

What's your favorite ADHD hack?

[Kat]

Oh, that's the question we got. Oh, yes, you're saying that because that's my favorite hack is body doubling. Yeah, I love a buddy.

[Amy]

Yeah, you do.

[Kat]

I love. It's called body doubling or some people call it mirroring. And it's when you need to get work done and you have someone doing work alongside you, and it could be them doing the exact same thing, or it could just be like, if you've got computer work, they're doing computer work. Obviously they're not doing the same exact computer work as you, but someone's there. Or you're cleaning the house. Someone's alongside you cleaning the house. Kat was making fun of me because Shannon is. She works with us here on the podcast. And she's not here today because she's on vacation, but she's at my house majority of the time. But she does a variety of things as an assistant. And I don't get there some days where I'm like, shannon, I have so many clothes to hang up. Will you go hang them up with me? And it's not because I want her to. She could go hang up one. She could go as slow as molasses. She could stand there and hold a hanger and act like she's hanging up. That's okay because that's going to help me do what I need to do. Because I want a body double. Yeah, I want mirroring. Like I will tackle so much if I've got somebody there or if my sister's on FaceTime and she's maybe cleaning and cooking in the kitchen and doing something, I'll have her on FaceTime while I'm cleaning and cooking in the kitchen and doing something. So your, your body double doesn't even have to be in person. So I don't even know that that's like an obscure hack. Like they were looking for. One thing I do for my adhd that might be weird. I think this is ADHD related maybe.

[Amy]

Maybe if it works for you.

[Kat]

Then I open up my map. Like when I'm getting ready for something, the minute I start getting ready, which I might have an hour before I'm going to leave the house. But I type in the address that I'm going to. And I saw someone post about this online saying that this was their, their type B, but this is their type A type B behavior. But I'm like, well, I've been doing that for years, but. Well, I don't know for years. But when I really started to get nervous about showing up on time, especially if it's a work thing, I type in the address and it'll give me my arrival time. And then I just keep looking at that changing while I'm getting ready and I refresh it so I know exactly if, if traffic changes. I know because it might go from. Okay, you've got. It's going to take you 20 minutes to get to your destination. Well, 20 minutes into me getting ready, that could change to 30 minutes. But I have that awareness. The whole. I have.

[Amy]

But that's not going to sneak up on me.

[Kat]

No, it's not because I'm in a. No.

[Amy]

Um, do you use MA like Google Maps? Okay, so I don't know if.

[Kat]

Or my map app.

[Amy]

Well, I don't know if the Google Maps have this or the regular iPhone map has this. But ways what you can do is you can type in your destination and you can say arrive later and it will use. Now there's a caveat to this but it will use the general traffic patterns and so if you're like I need to be there by 8 o' clock. It will tell you when to leave based on the general traffic patterns. However, if like a wreck or something happens you while you're getting ready you're that's gonna affect that, right? Because that's not typical. But I use that a lot because I do not like being late. I also don't like being too early, like speed just a little bit early. So if you have. Do you ever use Ways?

[Kat]

No.

[Amy]

Oh, okay.

[Kat]

I feel like I used to back in the day but I don't even think the app is still on my phone.

[Amy]

Well, I highly suggest that I use it for everything because it will give you. I don't know if it still does. I assume it still does this but Waze gives you the shortest route.

[Kat]

Like surely Apple has upped their game. Yeah, it gives me three different When I type in an Apple it gives me three different options and I choose Ways.

[Amy]

Doesn't give. It just tells you where to go.

[Kat]

I don't know if this has anything to do with ADHD at all but I sometimes if it will take me longer but I don't have to get on the highway. I will go the longer route as long as I'm safe and I'll get there on time because I. I don't like the highway that much. I don't know, I've not really thought about it. I just prefer no, I just prefer the back roads.

[Amy]

I used to love a back road but now I don't because I feel like the back roads can be more dangerous and you should drive so slow.

[Kat]

I know, true it's going to take me longer but sometimes I'll be like eh, I'm going to go longer out because I just don't want to get on the highway.

[Amy]

That's fair.

[Kat]

So anyway, it probably has nothing to do with ADHD at all.

[Amy]

I think that's just your personality.

[Kat]

Here's this email we got from Emily. Hey Amy and Kat. My feeling of the day is inspired. I just finished the Correspondent. Thank you for talking about this book and suggesting it. I love to read but I'm a slow reader, fellow dyslexic here and I read this entire book in five days. I have so many thoughts about this beautiful story and how it was written. In my stage of life I've experienced loss and hardship, but also seen firsthand how God uses these things in life to shape us and remind us that there is always hope. This book does a wonderful job of representing all of the feelings. Grief, love, hope, forgiveness, shame, healing, adventure, courage, regret, connection. Where's the feelings chart? Check them all off. Another thing this book brings up for me is how communication in relationships and friendships is such an art. An art that I'm feeling inspired to bring back. I used to write letters to my grandparents when I was young and continue to do so in my 20s when they were still alive. I would be so giggly getting a letter in the mail, not knowing when it was coming. What a thrill. I do not write letters to anyone anymore. But while I'm still feeling inspired, I'm going to send a letter after this to my first boss who I haven't worked with in 10 plus years, but I think of her often. This book has also inspired me to send this email, something very out of character for me to do. I'm not really sure there's a clear point to this email except gratitude for your suggestion and hope that others will pick it up even if they are not readers and they'll feel inspired to start a connection with an old friend or new. In this case, you both feel like old friends to me. Your friend from North Carolina, Emily, age 33, which this would be good for the friendship question. Just like. Or wanting to connect. I mean, it's not specifically to that exact question, but in a friendship that maybe you've lost touch with someone. Write them a letter.

[Amy]

Write them a letter. Because how cool to get a letter

[Kat]

and send it out of nowhere. Snail mail. Yeah. Okay. She's the one that sent the P.S. and the P. P.S. that I referred to him. And the P.S. part is really special for you. Kat. Do you know yet? Did you read ahead? Yeah. Okay. P.S. cat. My mom named three of her four children after herself. Her first name is my sister's first name. Her maiden name is my brother's name, and her middle name is my middle name. And now one of my daughter's middle names, my poor younger sister got gypped since there were no other names left. I have three daughters now, and naming children is hard, but trust your gut feeling.

[Amy]

That's funny. Also good for your mom. Good for your mom.

[Kat]

She really went for it.

[Amy]

I'm just gonna name her Katherine Mary. Now I'm just gonna give her my exact name.

[Kat]

Get it? Get it? And then Emily gave us that PPS with the book recommendations of Ann Patchett's book books. So thank you for that, Emily from North Carolina. We got some good book recs. Yeah. With these emails. And we had way more questions to get through one in particular. I mean, we'll just have to save them for other episodes. But one in particular that we got was advice for dealing with a narcissistic boss. And Kat and I talked about it and we thought we should just make an entire episode out of that. So that'll be a normal feeling things, deep dive sort of thing, and not a couch talks. So if you're the person that sent in that question, we will be answering it, but in more depth.

[Amy]

Yeah. We have more to say than we could answer in here.

[Kat]

In here. And we just thought, well, that would be a good topic to focus on for a full episode. So thank you for that question and to anybody else that sent in questions, we will get to them. I guess we can close with what happened with Amy and her boyfriend. Maybe they missed that on previous episodes. We woke up, period. He got me a coffee mug.

[Amy]

I forgot you talked about that on here.

[Kat]

I did.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Kat]

But did I update you that I talked to him about it?

[Amy]

You updated me. You didn't update the people.

[Kat]

And I sort of felt a little bad after I talked to him.

[Amy]

Wait, did he know you talked about it on the podcast?

[Kat]

I mentioned it.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Kat]

But I was hoping he wouldn't, like, come back and listen. I don't think he did because he never said anything. I would have, but I was like, well, it's not that big of a thing. I mean, I've only talked about it to, like. Well, on the podcast, like, it didn't

[Amy]

bother me that much. I just, like, talked about it to a bajillion people.

[Kat]

So I did let him know that how I felt. I mean, I know I let the podcast know, but I let him know, and he sort of agreed with where we were with things. But he was also, like, a little. He was like, you like coffee?

[Amy]

And I was like, it wasn't that deep.

[Kat]

I was like, oh, I feel bad. I was like, I just didn't feel seen. Yeah, I. I know. I like coffee. I. I would love a mug.

[Amy]

Well, we talked about that.

[Kat]

Oh, yeah.

[Amy]

Like, mugs are great gifts. It was every mug that you got that was the problem.

[Kat]

Like, I know mugs from specific people. I still have my mug from Gracie that she got me from anthropology that has the letter A on it. That's so cute. So cute, in fact. Anthropologist. So cute, in fact, the ant. I kind of ruined the vibe. So cute, in fact, the anthropology still carries mug. When you and I went to anthropology the other day, they still had them.

[Amy]

Is it the black and white?

[Kat]

Yes. And they have every letter.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Gracie got me the A for Amy. Yeah. And I love it. Claire got me a coffee mug that has a little dancing piece of toast on it because I love toast.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Claire also got me one that says cat person.

[Amy]

You've Gotten me four mugs.

[Kat]

Santa.

[Amy]

You got me the Santa ones. And then you got Patrick and I K and P's of the mug that Gracie got you, but in Christmas colors.

[Kat]

Sick.

[Amy]

And we use them year round.

[Kat]

Yeah. See, it's good when you get a mug and you feel seen. It was more so the message of the mug, which I think that's how I started it to him. I said, do you remember. Remember these words? And he was like, I have no idea what those words are. And I was like, exactly. Is that bad?

[Amy]

It's just a funny way of bringing that up.

[Kat]

And you're like, well, because I thought

[Amy]

here they are on this mug. You're like trying to.

[Kat]

I was like, you don't remember those words.

[Amy]

They clearly weren't very special to you then.

[Kat]

And he's like, I, he. I made him. I made three times. I gave him three times to remember those words. And I was like, are you sure? These words. And he's like, amy, I have no clue what those words could be. And I was like, exactly.

[Amy]

He's like, those words mean nothing to me.

[Kat]

Exactly. Ah.

[Amy]

And that's our problem.

[Kat]

You hit the nail on the head that you just. We're like, oh, this is cute. Yeah. So anyway, we broke up. And after hearing me talk about that, you're like, I can see why. But anyway, nothing really crazy. Just. We probably could get curious about some more things in our relationship, and maybe we will one day. But it was one of those things where we definitely needed a break. Just our lives were a little different directions at that moment. So. Tbd. We'll see what happens in life. You never know. Nothing's permanent.

[Amy]

Nothing. If we learned anything, nothing is permanent.

[Kat]

Nothing is permanent. All right, well, we hope wherever you are, you have the day you need to have. Bye.

[Amy]

Bye.

[Bowen Yang]

This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Research with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We all know the feeling when life gets really busy. Taking care of yourself can feel impossible. That's why Premier protein shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make. It's not just for fitness, it's for getting afterlife. Premier protein powers me to say yes to more. Find your favorite [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R protein dot com.

[Kat]

Hear that?

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[Amy]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.