Introducing: Math & Magic with Bob Pittman - Guest Bobby Bones: Tenacity is a talent

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Bobby Bones Show – "Introducing: Math & Magic with Bob Pittman - Guest Bobby Bones: Tenacity is a Talent"

Release Date: May 8, 2025

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Introduction and Episode Overview

In this engaging episode of The Bobby Bones Show, hosted by Bob Pittman, Bobby Bones delves deep into his personal journey, the evolution of country music, and the significance of tenacity in achieving success. The conversation spans Bobby's challenging upbringing, career milestones, and the unwavering loyalty of the country music community.

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The Evolution and Dominance of Country Music

Bobby Bones begins by discussing the resurgence of country music in America, highlighting its status as the largest music format on the radio.

"Country music sonically has opened itself up a bit. Country music is always progressing." [05:14]

He attributes its ongoing popularity to the genre's ability to evolve and incorporate diverse influences while maintaining traditional roots. Bobby emphasizes the emergence of young and relatable artists who resonate with contemporary audiences.

"Guys like Morgan Wallen and Luke Combs and Zach Bryan and then the guys like Chesney and Garth... are really ruling country music." [05:35]

Bobby also addresses the historical perception of country music among rock audiences, explaining how country has seamlessly integrated elements from rock and other genres over the decades.

"Nothing is [not country] unless you go back to the very beginning... It's like Dylan going electric. That has happened over and over again." [06:20]

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The Loyalty of the Country Music Community

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the unparalleled loyalty found within the country music fanbase. Bobby highlights how this loyalty surpasses that of other music genres, fostering a dedicated and supportive community.

"They are far more loyal to the artist than any other format. Once you establish who you are and you build a fan base, they don't go anywhere." [07:38]

This steadfast support is a cornerstone of country music's enduring success, enabling artists to thrive even in a highly competitive industry.

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Bobby Bones' Early Life and Personal Struggles

Bobby opens up about his tumultuous childhood in Mountain Pine, Arkansas, marked by poverty and instability. His mother's early pregnancy and subsequent struggles with addiction created a challenging environment for Bobby.

"I never had a bed for myself until I finally got to college... I slept on the couch every night." [02:30]

Despite these hardships, Bobby's grandmother provided the consistency and support he needed, instilling in him the values of resilience and perseverance.

"My grandmother was the saving grace... she gave me the idea that consistency even existed." [15:21]

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Forging a Career in Radio

Bobby shares his journey into the radio industry, starting with humble beginnings at a local station in Hot Springs, Arkansas. His commitment to reliability and consistency quickly set him apart, paving the way for opportunities in larger markets.

"If stations needed me, I was there. Bobby's dependability continued to benefit him for years to come." [22:22]

He recounts his move to Austin, Texas, and later to Seattle, where his unique voice and authentic connection with listeners earned him a coveted morning show slot. Bobby credits his success to being genuine and relatable, traits that resonate deeply with his audience.

"I talk like a guy from Southeast America... sounded like a friend, and that worked." [08:23]

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Television Ventures and Dancing with the Stars

Bobby discusses his foray into television, including his stint on American Idol and his unexpected victory on Dancing with the Stars. He emphasizes that while he may not have been the most skilled dancer, his dedication and the support of his radio listeners were pivotal in his win.

"They put me on two episodes... my people came along with me." [28:04]

Bobby highlights the challenges of balancing a television career with his radio commitments, ultimately reaffirming his preference for audio-based media.

"I love doing audio, doing radio, doing podcasting more than anything in the whole world." [29:32]

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Embracing Podcasting and Digital Media

Transitioning to digital platforms, Bobby elaborates on the advantages of podcasting over traditional radio. He values the ability to engage in long-form conversations, allowing for deeper connections with both guests and listeners.

"Podcasting allows me to really get down in the weeds a little bit... we could do this for three hours with really no restrictions." [30:34]

This medium complements his radio show, providing flexibility and a broader reach to cater to diverse listener schedules and preferences.

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Hosting the I Heart Country Festival

Bobby describes his role as the host of the I Heart Country Festival in Austin, positioning it as the centerpiece of his professional endeavors. The festival embodies celebration, community, and the vibrant spirit of country music.

"It's kind of the tent pole of everything else I do... it's a celebration of what we've been able to do and also what we're doing." [31:39]

The festival not only showcases top-tier country artists but also serves as a testament to Bobby's influence and dedication to the genre.

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Conducting Meaningful Interviews with Emotional Intelligence

A standout aspect of Bobby's interviewing style is his emphasis on emotional intelligence. He prioritizes understanding and connecting with his guests on a personal level, using silence as a tool to elicit deeper responses.

"Silence is a massive weapon that I now am comfortable using... the person being interviewed often gives their best if there's silence." [32:47]

This approach fosters authentic and insightful conversations, setting his interviews apart from traditional formats.

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Advice on Tenacity and Overcoming Challenges

Towards the end of the interview, Bobby imparts valuable advice to listeners, particularly emphasizing the importance of tenacity. Drawing from his own experiences, he underscores that persistence and resilience are crucial traits for success.

"Tenacity is a talent because I never felt like I was super talented at anything... being tenacious and not stopping being tenacious, that's a real talent." [02:30]

He encourages individuals to leverage their unique backgrounds and perspectives, transforming challenges into strengths.

"If you climb out of the hole, you're so much stronger when you get out of the hole... use that to our advantage." [15:29]

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Key Takeaways from the Conversation

1. Consistency and Reliability: Bobby's unwavering commitment to his roles, whether in radio or television, has been instrumental in his sustained success. Being dependable is a talent that fosters trust and opens doors.

2. Authenticity and Connection: Embracing his true self and fostering genuine connections with his audience have set Bobby apart in the media landscape. Authenticity builds a loyal and engaged community.

3. Emotional Intelligence in Communication: Mastering the ability to understand and adapt to others' emotions enhances the quality of interactions, making conversations more meaningful and impactful.

4. The Power of Tenacity: Perseverance in the face of adversity can transform one's trajectory. Tenacity not only helps overcome obstacles but also cultivates resilience and inner strength.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Bobby Bones Show offers an inspiring narrative of overcoming adversity through tenacity, the evolving landscape of country music, and the significance of authentic connections in building a loyal community. Bobby Bones' journey serves as a testament to the power of resilience and the enduring impact of being true to oneself.

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Note: All quotes are directly attributed to Bobby Bones and Bob Pittman with corresponding timestamps for reference.

Transcript

[Bob Pittman]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Bobby Bones]

Thank you to the presenting sponsor of today's episode, American Express. Between my shows, 25 whistles. Lots to say, too much access. It's a lot of traveling for work, and I get to attend a bunch of different sporting events.

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[Unknown]

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[Bobby Bones]

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[Bob Pittman]

You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart podcasts.

[Bobby Bones]

Tenacity is a talent because I never felt like I was super talented at anything because I never had one skill that I could lean on. I couldn't sing, didn't have a great voice, wasn't super funny. I started to realize that being tenacious and not stopping being tenacious, that's a real talent Hi, I'm Bob Pittman and.

[Bob Pittman]

Welcome to this episode of Math and Magic. Today we're exploring the power of audio and the power of those hosts on the radio and podcast who hundreds of millions of Americans call their friends. Our guest today is Bobby Bones, known the millions and millions for his morning.

[Unknown]

Show on country radio and also for.

[Bob Pittman]

His stance as a mentor on American Idol, host of Breaking Bobby Bones on the National Geographic Channel, and a past winner of Dancing with the Stars.

[Unknown]

He's also authored two New York Times.

[Bob Pittman]

Bestsellers and has the wildly successful podcast Bobby Cast and the Nashville Podcast Network. Bobby was born and raised in small town Arkansas, Mountain Pine, in what he has described as extreme poverty. He literally had no bed for himself until he finally got to college. He has had a life of driving to make his life a success. He's going to share some of those stories and insights and more. Bobby, welcome.

[Bobby Bones]

Thank you for having me, Bob. This is awesome.

[Bob Pittman]

Listen, before we get into the meaty.

[Unknown]

Stuff, I want to do you in 60 seconds. You ready?

[Bobby Bones]

Yes, sir.

[Bob Pittman]

Do you prefer cats or dogs?

[Bobby Bones]

Dogs.

[Bob Pittman]

Early riser or night owl?

[Bobby Bones]

I'm an early riser, but I hate it.

[Bob Pittman]

Nashville or la?

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, Nashville by far.

[Bob Pittman]

City or country?

[Bobby Bones]

I'm going to surprise you and go city on this.

[Unknown]

Coke or Pepsi?

[Bobby Bones]

I'm going to go coke.

[Bob Pittman]

Rock and roll or country?

[Bobby Bones]

What's the difference? You know, they're basically the same, but I'll go country.

[Unknown]

Coffee or tea?

[Bobby Bones]

I'll go tea, as long as it's sweet.

[Bob Pittman]

Podcast or streaming tv?

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, podcast by far.

[Bob Pittman]

Call or text?

[Bobby Bones]

Don't call me, just text.

[Bob Pittman]

All time.

[Bobby Bones]

Favorite musical artist, Counting Crows. First job doing maintenance on a golf course.

[Bob Pittman]

Favorite TV show of all time, the Office.

[Bobby Bones]

Childhood hero, David Letterman.

[Unknown]

Favorite sport to watch.

[Bobby Bones]

College football, Arkansas Razorbacks.

[Bob Pittman]

Most important piece of advice you ever.

[Bobby Bones]

Got, Just keep pushing regardless.

[Bob Pittman]

Favorite city?

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, you get me in trouble here. I'm going to go Fayetteville, Arkansas.

[Bob Pittman]

Final one, secret talent.

[Bobby Bones]

I can juggle really well. I can do turns and throws and it's awesome.

[Unknown]

Okay, let's jump in. Country music is on a real upswing in America.

[Bob Pittman]

Comes up and down sometimes.

[Unknown]

It is, by the way, the biggest music format on the radio.

[Bob Pittman]

What's going on?

[Unknown]

Why?

[Bobby Bones]

I think because one, the music sonically has opened itself up a bit. And the one thing about country music is it's always progressing. And the other thing is there's always a group going, that's not country. And so as long as country music has existed, you've had people saying, well, that's not real country. I think you've had a couple transcendent artists as well. So it doesn't hurt when you have big stars. And so guys like Morgan Wallen and Luke Combs and Zach Bryan and then the guys like Chesney and Garth, the stadium acts, are really ruling country music. And the fact that some of them are so young makes it cool.

[Unknown]

You know, you're talking about people saying, that's not country. But the history of country music, country radio especially, is the oldies always seemed to be from rock. In the 70s, the oldies were not Hank Williams. The old ones were Elvis Presley, the Eagles or whatever. Why does over the years country music attract the former rock and roll audience?

[Bob Pittman]

What makes them switch and how does that work?

[Bobby Bones]

I think the format itself is very traditional in nature. However, I think the format also at times will attempt to hold itself back, if not for real pioneer type artists. I mean, when you look at country music just in general, from the beginning of the format itself, the genre you're talking about, the music was created by slaves coming over on the slave ship and Europeans coming over. And that's where you get the banjo and the fiddle. And the fact to where they live geographically is the roots of country music. And so when people will hear a song and go, well, that's not country, you know, my response often is, well, nothing is unless you go back to the very beginning. You can look at any of the artists like Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys. The first time they amped a steel guitar, it was like Dylan going electric. Like people flipped out. And that has happened over and over again. Garth Brooks doing concerts, touring like a rock star. You have people put 808 in songs now. And I think what's happening is when you're young, you like the edgy type music. And then what happens is the. That edgy type music isn't so edgy anymore. And what was the rock back in the time really has settled into what is now country music 10, 15, 20 years later.

[Unknown]

So let's talk a little bit about the country music community. You touched on it about who these people are.

[Bob Pittman]

How are they different from other audiences.

[Bobby Bones]

They are far more loyal to the artist than any other format. Country music from before I got in it until today, there were artists that I loved and it did not matter what they put out. I loved it. When I worked in pop, you could have a song and go away forever. That almost never happens in country music, even today. So once you establish who you are and you build a fan base, they don't go anywhere. And I think that's really, like, a lot of people in this country. Like, if you can actually prove your worth and there's a reason to like you, and you're not going to really change fundamentally who you are, like, we're going to roll with you. We're real loyalists to folks. And I think that's what this format is really known for, and I think it's why it thrives.

[Unknown]

You know, you started in top 40, top hits, and you moved to country radio.

[Bob Pittman]

Why?

[Bobby Bones]

I think I wanted to talk to the most people. That's the selfish answer. But when it comes to where did I even fit, like, how I sound? I mean, I talk like a guy from, and I won't say middle America, probably a little south of middle America. Like, I talk like a guy from Southeast America. And so when I was doing pop, I had Willie Nelson on and Dirk Spentley on, and I had all these country acts. And what was funny was the word on the street then was, he's too country for pop. But then once I got to country, it was, he's too pop for country. So I kind of never really had a place to fit in. But that's exactly how and why fit, because nobody really fits anywhere. And the fact that I just embraced that, like, yeah, I don't fit into one specific hole. I think that is what endeared me to listeners. I hope. I hope it still does. But that's why I'm here now, because I talk to people that grew up like me, have sensibilities like me, and have loyalties like me.

[Unknown]

So how is Nashville managed to hang on to its dominance in the country scene?

[Bobby Bones]

Invest a lot of money? I mean, it is a industry. It's billions and billions of dollars. And you know, where it's an art and it's fun and it makes you happy and sad, it is also a cutthroat business. It just reminds me of sports, right? Like, I have my favorite teams, and I love them, but behind the guys playing on the field for nine innings, getting dirty, there are people making really difficult decisions. And there are people that are paid a lot to judge, engage talent and scout talent. I think Nashville is really prioritized one, investing in technology and also investing in really great people to live here and cultivate the music. And you often see a lot of the producers from Los Angeles, a lot of the songwriters from Los Angeles, they're in Nashville a lot because they want to write with Nashville songwriters. So I think it's really just the investment of the People and the technology, and both are doing the job of letting the strongest survive.

[Unknown]

So you're also a musician, performer on the stage. You've got the Raging Idiots. Tell us about your history as a performer and where that fits into what you do.

[Bobby Bones]

The Raging Idiots are a comedy duo. It's how we started, and we were just raising money for charity. Honestly, I was just looking for ways to. To tour around, do some funny songs, and make a little bit of money to donate to dog shelters and St. Jude, which is a hospital for kids. And I was in the hospital a bunch as a kid. And I know that if people didn't help me, like my church and the community, that I don't think I would have been able to actually get the care that I got because we didn't have a whole lot of money. So St. Jude, they don't have people pay that you show up there. If you have the kind of cancer, they take care of you. So that was it. That's why we started it, me and my buddy Eddie, and we toured around, and honestly, we were just okay. But the great thing is, if you're okay and you work hard enough, you get to be pretty good. And that's what we did. From pretty good, we got to a little better than pretty good. And our shows got bigger. We were playing theaters. We've been able to raise millions of dollars for the hospital, but it really just started off as two guys playing in, like, a barbecue restaurant. So it's a comedy band, but we've been able to do a lot of really serious stuff with it.

[Unknown]

You're big on social, too. How does that tie together? All you do is it sort of like the listen line used to be at the radio station. How does it keep you tuned into your audience in real time?

[Bobby Bones]

It's where they are, and I want to be where the people are. I want to be where the people are. It sounds like I'm on Little Mermaid or something, but, you know, it's where the people are. It's where I can talk to them 24 hours a day. The great thing about the radio show is, like, I'm their friend. If they're driving in, I'm their companion. Hopefully, they trust that I'm going to give them something compelling to listen to, if it's happy or sad, if it's funny or not, that I'm their buddy that's going to be with them. Same with podcasts. The thing about social media is I can be on it constantly, over and over and over again, saying different Things, but also directing them to the longer form media. Right. It's. In the end, it is a wonderful promotional tool for what I feel I do best, which is mid and long form audio.

[Unknown]

You know, I want to go back in time a little bit, get a little context on you, especially for people who really know you and you're interested in how you got to be Bobby Bones. You have an amazing, tough, yet inspiring personal story. Teenage mom who had some abuse issues for her whole life. Your grandmother stepped in as an important figure in your life and. And it seems that poverty dominated your early life. Can you share that story?

[Bobby Bones]

I was born to a mom who got pregnant at 15. She had me right after her 16th birthday. And having a mom that got pregnant at 15, it was very difficult for her because she also didn't come from money. So she's again in a situation where she didn't have advantage. And now we're all at a big disadvantage. And so my biological dad was 17 when she was 15. He left when I was 4 or 5 years old. I was in the hospital for a long time. He kind of skipped out then. I don't have a relationship with him. I never really knew him. I chased him down a few years ago just to kind of get some closure in my life. But my mom, being a teenage mom, she wasn't super consistent. She was gone a lot. I was adopted by my grandmother. I was in and out of trailers and apartments. And then it was so normal. You know, looking back as an adult, you kind of admire the tenacity of that little sucker who just continue to read books and go to school. You mentioned earlier I didn't have a bed. I never really thought about not having a bed. I knew I never had a bedroom, but I never had a bed. So I slept on the couch every night. My closet was underneath the couch and just got by now, luckily, I was pretty good at school. And so from a very young age, I knew that I did not want to be where I was, which was just a place of complete inconsistency. If that was food, if that was where we were living. We moved around a bunch as a kid, but I think there was a lot of time struggling with. Because my mom ended up dying in her 40s with addiction issues. There's a lot, a lot of struggling with, like, even me existing. There was a bunch of guilt that my mom wouldn't have had me, that her life would have been a whole lot better. So it was just a lot of inconsistency. And I think that's probably now why, if there's anything I'm good at, it is being consistent and it's tenacity. I think those are really the skills that I've developed. My grandmother was the saving grace. Anytime my mom would leave and she would leave for months at a time, a couple of years at a time, I would just go live with my grandmother. And she was that consistency. It just sucks. She was so old. If grandma's going to be younger, that'd be way cooler. But yeah, like, my grandma was what really gave me the idea that consistency even existed.

[Unknown]

What advice do you have for young people who've had a background like you and are trying to start their adult lives? What do you tell them?

[Bobby Bones]

I will tell them that if you climb out of the hole, you're so much stronger when you get out of the hole. And once you're back to even, you are so much farther ahead than anybody who didn't have it as hard as you to weaponize whatever background you come from in whatever way you can. And that's generally the advice. I don't say it's easy, but I will say, yeah, it sucks. I didn't go to a good school. I didn't have a good education. You don't either. But that doesn't mean we can't use that to our advantage because again, that's sharpening a different iron that we get to use that other people don't use unless they have to. Right. I think perspective is such a gift that nobody wants to get until they have it. Because perspective is hard. You don't get perspective unless you go through something hard. Like, that's the gift that when you have it, you're like, man, this is an awesome gift to have. But it did not feel good while getting it. And I think real talk like that and that somebody like them has done it, that often helps as well.

[Unknown]

I'm sure there must have been some people along the way, in addition to your grandmother, who helped you see beyond your circumstances and in the future possibilities. You mentioned you were a smart student, you read a lot.

[Bob Pittman]

Who put you on that track?

[Unknown]

Who were those people who influenced you?

[Bobby Bones]

Were there people specifically my head football coach in high school. His name was Vic Gandalf, and he was really the first male influence that I had. That was hard on me and it was of extreme value because I knew he cared about me and I knew he wanted to see me be better, and his way to do it was to be harder on me. It was the first time I'd experienced that. And I think a lot of people get that from a parent. I didn't get that from a parent. So I think it was people providing that consistency that gave me the fundamental jump off point to even see that I could do more than what was being done around me.

[Unknown]

You've talked a little bit in places I've read that you actually want to regret is that you didn't get to go to University of Arkansas, which by the way, they just gave you an honorary degree. So congratulations.

[Bobby Bones]

Tell me about that obsession with the Razorbacks in Arkansas. We don't have any pro teams in Arkansas. We don't have much, but we do have something that kind of galvanizes the state and that is the University of Arkansas. Like, that is pretty much everyone's pride and joy. I did not get to go to school there, which was really hard for me because I always wanted to go, but I had to work. And I think you'll relate to this, growing up in a small town and understanding what it's like growing up in the south and having to pay your own bills and insurance and food and I had to work and I was waiting tables and I was begging for jobs and I got a job at a radio station and the radio station was 45 minutes away and they hired me to switch out Rick D's countdown CD and clean the front office. And to me that was like getting a job in Los Angeles. I was like, this is crazy. I cannot believe they're paying me to work at radio station.

[Unknown]

Which city was that in, Bobby?

[Bobby Bones]

The radio station was in Hot Springs, Arkansas, but I went to school in Arkadelphia, Arkansas. So it was about a 45 minute.

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[Bobby Bones]

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Drive to and back. But before my first shift on the weekend of cleaning and flipping a cd. Somebody got fired and I was just there. So they put me on on the weekends. And as you know, my real name is not Bobby Bones, it's Bobby Estel. And they said, okay, your name's going to be Bobby Bones or Bobby Z. And I was like, man, Bobby Z sounds terrible. So at least I'll sound like a pirate. That sounds like a real human. And that's how I got the name, working at that really small station in Hot Springs, Arkansas, while I went to college. And so, yes, I was not able to go to the University of Arkansas, but they did give me an honorary doctorate. And when I'm on campus, they have to call me doctor. And that's pretty cool.

[Bob Pittman]

More on Math and Magic right after this quick break. Break. Welcome back to Math and Magic. Let's hear more from my conversation with Bobby Bones.

[Unknown]

Tell us about your start in radio. So you go. You do the weekend shift. Where to go from there? What point did you begin to be the Bobby Bones we sort of know and love and appreciate today?

[Bobby Bones]

I think that guy came years later as I was trying to figure out what I could and couldn't do. Right. I didn't have the traditional cool or deep booming radio voice. I really tried to have it. I tried in every way possible. And so I went from weekends and I was doing weekend overnights, and then I would do weekend nights. And the key to my success, at least at the beginning, has always been to be exactly where I'm told to be and where I said I'd be when I'm supposed to be there. And so I was really consistent. And if you needed me, I was there. There's a lot of value in that. And so I went from doing weekend nights to I got the night shift. I'd been at the station for about a year. I was 19 years old. And I had some offers pretty quickly to move to, like, the Tri Cities, like Johnson City, Tennessee. I had stations that were interested in me coming to do night shows in other markets, but no one in my family graduated high school, much less college. And so my goal was to go and finish college. So I stayed my entire run at KLAAS in Hot Springs, Arkansas. I did nights. Looking back, it was awesome. I built a really big, cool, fun night show, especially for that area. From there, I went to Little Rock, and I was there like six months from Little Rock, went to Austin, Texas. Never been to Austin in my life. And that's where I started to kind of find who I was. And then I didn't have what was traditional, but again, my weakness ended up being my biggest strength, because I didn't chase that anymore. I knew what I had was the ability to talk to people, not at people. And although I didn't sound like what was traditional, I did sound like people that were traditionally in the lives of the people that listened to my show. So kind of sounded like a friend, and that worked. I did nights in Austin, and they were gonna flip the format of the station in Austin, and I just got an offer to move to Seattle and do nights. And I remember they called me in the office and said, hey, what can we do to keep you? And I said, I'd love to do mornings. I was 22. And they were like, I don't think that's gonna be able to happen. I went in that following Monday, and they offered me $50,000 a year to do mornings. And I thought I was the richest. It was Beverly Hillbillies, Bob. It was Beverly Hillbillies just, you know, 30 years later.

[Unknown]

I love that you've done a number of high profile TV projects. Let's hit a few of them. How did you get on American Idol? And what did you both contribute and learn from that?

[Bobby Bones]

So everything that I've done in any other medium other than radio is based off of my success in radio. So, you know, my Hub of radio podcast has allowed me to get in places, and then they realize how big the following is because of audio, and. And then they allow me to expand. But I had done a pilot for abc, a daytime talk show pilot with Deion Sanders. It did not get picked up. And so that's very disappointing because we worked hard on it, but I had made a couple contacts, and it's all about relationships. And I think, if anything, they were able to see that I have a bit of talent, but I was super consistent. It's the key to my success. And they said, hey, we need somebody to come in for one episode on American Idol, and we want you to work with the contestants on how to be interviewed, how to be on camera. And it really was no more than that. It was one episode. And so I was like, cool. They didn't know anything about me, the people that were running the show. So I didn't tell them I was from Nashville because I didn't want them to think that it was going to be difficult for me to get to set. So I do the job, I come, I crush it for one episode. But what they realized and what I was able to do was talk to these Kids and young adults because a lot of them for the first time had never been to Los Angeles or New York. And here I am. I had the same story. I'd never been to a big city like that until work got me there. And as wide eyed as they were, that's what I was not too long before that. So being able to relate to their stories and situations, but also having the knowledge of knowing music, knowing how to be good on mic and on camera, knowing what songs to pick, having a history of just studying music and pop culture, like all that helps. They put me on two episodes. Again, they didn't know that I didn't live there. So I'm making union minimum, which is like $2,000 an episode for the first two episodes, but it's costing me about $3,000 an episode to be out there because I'm having to fly both ways. I'm having to pay for my own hotel. I just didn't want to be a nuisance. Therefore they wouldn't work with me anymore. In my mind, that's what happened. So they had me back for a third episode. I'm down like four grand at this point doing three episodes of American Idol. And finally I told him, hey, just so you guys know, I've lost a bunch of money doing this. I love doing it, but I don't live in LA and would love to do more, but is there a way that you could compensate? And they were like, oh yeah, of course. So the final episode of the season one, they gave me $50,000 and I'm like, oh, this is awesome. I built a relationship with those guys. They trusted me, where they would send talent with me. And Ryan was really starting to get busy doing Ryan and Kelly. And so there were times when Ryan couldn't fly back to Los Angeles, so any of his junior varsity duties they would have me do. I even filled in his host for him once when he got sick. So I was basically Ryan's JV squad, which to me, awesome, I'll take it. But they came back season two and they were like, hey, we want you to be a full time member. And I can tell you the Pay was about 50 times what it was for that one final episode. And again it was because I showed up on time every time and had the ability to talk with people, not talk at them.

[Unknown]

So Dancing with the Stars. I've never thought of you as the amazing dancer, yet you won Dancing with the Stars.

[Bob Pittman]

What's that story?

[Bobby Bones]

Well, still wasn't an amazing dancer even after I won the Real story is and God's honest truth, they told me after the final episode, after I won the show because I was not good. I'd never danced before. I was also the only person that had a job and was working the entire show because a lot of people on that are creatives and they cut off a time or they're ex athletes and they cut out a time and. And they go and spend three months dancing on television. I couldn't do that because I had a radio show to do every single morning. And so I did the show because I was in LA. So I would be on at 3am to 8am and then I would go and train for six, eight hours. No dance experience at all. And I am surviving. I am not thriving. I never got great scores, but I was never in the bottom three. It's a bit controversial because I wasn't good, but I took it very seriously. I trained really hard, ended up winning the show. The executive told me at abc, he said, hey, look, we knew about after episode one or two that nobody had the following. You did that. There were people with millions and millions on social media, and I have a million, a couple million, but with like tens of millions that didn't have the following that you did. And it was because the people that listen to my radio show and podcast came along with me. That was the whole reason I won. They saw I was serious about it and I was. And that's what allowed me to win that show was like my people came along with me.

[Unknown]

So how does being on TV different from being on the radio?

[Bobby Bones]

You got to put on more makeup. That sucks. You got to wait around a lot. I love doing audio, doing radio, doing podcasting more than anything in the whole world. TV is so fickle, and you go job to job again. I'll give some more credit to Ryan Seacrest. When we did Idol together, we would talk about that and he would go, hey, TV's fun. It's glamorous. It makes you cool for a second. But if you want a sustaining career and you want people to stay with you, it's audio. I've always felt that way too. You know, I always wanted to have a late night talk show. What's cool now is you can do that. You just turn some cameras on and you also record the audio for a podcast. And so television's been fun. It's allowed me to try things. I've gotten hurt a few times. I did a show called Breaking Bobby Bones that lit me on fire, threw me off buildings, like all that's happened. I feel like I've been able to have a pretty successful television career, but it doesn't feel as authentic, even at its most authentic, as audio does.

[Unknown]

Let's jump to podcasting.

[Bob Pittman]

Some people call it radio on demand.

[Unknown]

Like Netflix is probably TV on demand. How does podcasting difference from doing a live radio show?

[Bobby Bones]

I think if you love long form, like super long form media, which I do, podcasting is a plus. I think it just kind of depends what your schedule is. Right. I'm trying to make content to fit everybody's schedule that has every different kind of schedule. So if you got 30 seconds, I got something for you on the YouTube channel or my social. If you have an hour and 15 minutes, I had a Ringo Starr over at the house and it was crazy. And we did an hour and 15 minutes talking about the Beatles and talking about country music. And podcasting allows me to really get down in the weeds a little bit. Even this conversation. We probably wouldn't get to have this on my morning radio show, mostly for time reasons, but sitting here with you now, we could do this for three hours with really no restrictions. Now, that's not for everybody, but for the people it's for, it really fills a need, and I'm one of those people that need it.

[Unknown]

You're the host of the I Heart Country Festival in Austin each year. How does that fit with everything else you do?

[Bobby Bones]

It's kind of the tent pole of everything else I do. All of my success has been because of the success and the investment in me with the radio show. You know, there's the wedding and the wedding reception, and so the I Heart Country Festival, that's kind of the wedding reception of the job. And what's been really cool is I've played the festival four times. I've hosted it, I think nine or 10 times at this point. So I feel like I'm as ingrained as that festival is to just this time of year. And Austin is a great city for it. It's not Nashville. Nashville people tend to get a bit jaded because it's always here. Austin, I live there for 12 years. People love music. It's a great place to go and have this festival. The artists love it as well. And so for me, it's kind of the party and the celebration of what we've been able to do and also what we're doing. But also with my friends, again, those guys, I think there are three acts that played my literal wedding. I didn't pay them. They're just my friends. Who were coming to the wedding anyway, so they got up there and sang songs.

[Unknown]

You've done some amazing interviews. What do you try to get each time you interview someone?

[Bobby Bones]

I try to feel what they're feeling when we start, because I can go into an interview with my goals, even an agenda, but if the person isn't feeling it, I think now I have the emotional intelligence to roll with them and trust that I will get us somewhere, if not just as good, better. So I think silence is a massive weapon that I now am comfortable using. And it's hard to be silent in an interview. It feels awkward. Some people always want there to be sound. Some people that are doing interviews, if there's a gap, they want to fill it. I feel now comfortable enough in my own skin and interviewing skills to sit in silence for a second. Because what happens is the person being interviewed often gives their best if there's silence, because they put the pressure on them to continue allowing you into their lives more. So I think, for me, I have an idea of what I want. I'll quickly change. You know, it's like if you have an offensive plan, but they've got eight guys in the box, you're not going to run the ball, so you're now going to have to throw the ball. So you better adjust quickly. I think now I feel comfortable doing that, and that happens a lot. And when it doesn't, it's awesome. But when it does, there have been times where it's better than it would have been regardless. I think just being comfortable knowing that and trusting myself to modify on the move has been really great for me. And that just comes from reps, honestly doing it over and over again.

[Unknown]

Ever been intimidated by any of the stars you interview?

[Bobby Bones]

At first, I think I was because they were all rich. And what's weird is I'm rich now, too, thanks to you. So that part's gone. So I was always like, man, people with money. I'm just so intimidated by them. But now it's. There's an understanding with creatives that I'm talking to that we all kind of have a screw loose. It just happens to be the right screw. We're able to create something really cool. And also, as I've been in Nashville and got to be friends with a lot of the men, women that have come up around the same time, meaning they didn't have much success. And now they're massive. They're just normal people. But it's easy to say that until you actually see that. You know, I did Idol with Luke Bryan for four years, and we would travel to and from. And looks like a close friend, but looks like the most normal guy. And I mentioned Ringo Starr earlier, and I wasn't intimidated by him, but what I was intimidated by was the history of him. And I think my. My intimidation kind of rooted in. I'd rather not screw this up because of the history of who I'm sitting with. So a moment can be intimidating now, I think way more than a person can, because in the end, we're all awesome and flawed. But it's taken me a long time to realize that.

[Unknown]

I think of all the interviews you've done, that's the only one you ever sent me a text about with a picture. Okay.

[Bobby Bones]

And that's why. Because I also know. I know you appreciate the history of it, aside from it being Ringo, and that's cool. It was kind of like, hey, Bob, you're like me. You'll really appreciate this. This is real history that we're getting to be a part of right now.

[Bob Pittman]

Let's talk a little bit about ambition and expectations.

[Unknown]

When you're growing up in Mountain Pine, did you think you'd be successful as an adult? What kind of dreams of the future did you allow yourself to have?

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, yeah, I. I thought I'd be so successful only because if I didn't believe that, I don't think I would have got out of there. So there was never a lack of confidence at times. There was a lack of understanding how I was going to do it because nobody else around me was doing it. That was tv. Like moving out of your town, moving out of Arkansas. That was television only that wasn't real life. I was never told I couldn't do something. I think that's pretty cool. I was not shown how to do anything, but I was never told I couldn't. And so I was just naive enough and just confident enough to lean into it and really not have a Plan B. And that's what I did.

[Unknown]

You know, it's interesting. There's a lot of talk in America about people and living in poverty, et cetera.

[Bob Pittman]

But all of us who are poor, I think probably share one trait is we all dreamed about doing really well.

[Bobby Bones]

To me, it was more, I just want to be fulfilled and not hate my job. Everybody hated their job, like my stepdad, my mom got married. He hated going to the mill and he. But he did it every day, and so I didn't want that. And I had crazy aspirations, and I knew they were crazy then, but also knew that every once in a while something crazy happens to people that have crazy dreams. And so it also didn't happen overnight. There's revisionist history that it was like all of a sudden I'm born in Arkansas and boom, I have a national radio show. Like there never really was this moment where everything changed. It was one rung of the ladder, sometimes falling down a couple rungs and slowly growing it.

[Unknown]

You know, this podcast is actually for marketers. Math and magic stories from the frontiers of marketing. A lot of marketers don't listen to.

[Bob Pittman]

Country music and they don't really have.

[Unknown]

An understanding of it.

[Bob Pittman]

What advice would you give them about.

[Unknown]

How they should use it?

[Bobby Bones]

I think what happens with people who don't listen to country music is that they've probably been conditioned that country music is a caricature of what it really is. I think if you were to go to somebody else's out, you listen to country and they're like, no, they do an impression of country. They'd go. And there is part of that and it's rooted in that. But what country music is to me is just authentic lyrics, music with mostly real instruments, stories and then loyalty to artists like I talked about earlier. Loyalty to people. Loyalty. Just like loyalty they want with their products. Right? I think that's what country music is. It is based in loyalty. It's got to be good or people aren't going to like it. There's a reason that these guys are selling out football stadiums and it's not because there's a bunch of people in overall showing up, which by the way had many pair of overalls and God bless overalls, but it's normal. People that are going to normal jobs that have money that spends just like anyone else's does, but oftentimes feel like they're not paid the attention to because they're not in LA or New York. And I relate to that so much.

[Unknown]

So let's do a little advice here. If you could go back in time, what advice would you give your 21 year old self?

[Bobby Bones]

It's just tenacity is a talent. Because I never felt like I was super talented at anything because I never had one skill that I could lean on it couldn't sing, didn't have a great voice, wasn't super funny, didn't have really one thing that I knew if all else went wrong, I could lean on this talent. But as I got older, I started to realize that being tenacious and not stopping being tenacious, that's a real talent. And I would Just say, continue to be tenacious, continue to be curious, and it's all going to happen. It may not happen at the pace that you want. Sometimes it may happen faster than you want. Sometimes it may happen in a way that you're not ready for. But if you just keep pushing, eventually it'll happen.

[Unknown]

Bobby, it is a real honor and pleasure to work with you here at iHeart and it's rewarding to watch the audience you've built on the radio and podcast and see how you take such great care of them. Thank you. And thanks for the insights today.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, thank you for having me. And I'll just do the shameless. You can put a lie detector on my fingertips right now. I literally wouldn't be here if it weren't for a guy from a small town in Mississippi who believed in a small town kid from Arkansas and going, we're going to invest in you, therefore we believe in you. And the guy's name's Bob, just like my name. So I would not be here without Mr. Bob Pittman. You're from a small town and it takes people like you to do things. Sometimes for people like me to go, okay, someone else did it before me, I think I can really dial in as well. So without me being able to see that and without you believing in me, I definitely wouldn't be here today.

[Unknown]

Well, you've been one of the great investments of our company. Thanks, Bobby.

[Bob Pittman]

Here are a few things I picked up from my conversation with Bobby. 1. Consistency can be everything. Bobby didn't feel like he had an especially deep radio voice. He actually didn't think he had any special skills. But early in his career, if stations needed him, he was there. Bobby's dependability continued to benefit him for years to come and still does. Being reliable and tenacious are talents in themselves and they won't go unnoticed. 2. Own your story. Bobby has a strong sense of identity shaped by the unique perspective he gained through his challenging childhood. Perspective is a hard won strength that.

[Unknown]

You shouldn't take for granted.

[Bob Pittman]

Bobby has used it to connect with his his listeners and build an incredibly loyal fan base. He knows that the intimacy and authenticity of audio has allowed him to show up as himself. That's part of what makes him stand out from the crowd. 3. Emotional intelligence is a muscle you can train. Bobby has a deep connection with his fans, but he also had to learn how to engage his guests. Conducting a great interview doesn't mean sticking to a picture pre prepared script. It means listening and understanding where someone is coming from. Interviewing didn't always come naturally to Bobby, but he developed the skill by doing it over and over and over again. Whether you're in the studio, a conference room or a boardroom, growing your emotional intelligence can make you more adaptable in any situation. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening.

That's it for today's episode Episode. Thanks so much for listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart podcasts. The show is created and hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sydney Rosenbloom for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no small feat. The Math and Magic team is Jessica Kryncic and Behead Fraser. Our executive producers are Ally Perry and Nikki Itor. Until next time.

[Unknown]

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[Bobby Bones]

Is the number one provider of education to our military and veterans in the country. They offer something truly unique. Special rates and grants for the entire family making education affordable and not just for those who serve, but also for their loved ones. If you have a military or veteran family member and you're looking for affordable, high quality education, AMU is the place for you. Visit AMU Apus Edumilitary to learn more. That's AMU Apus Edumilitary Bobby Bones here with news on the top shelf. Country Cruise setting sail February 27 to March 6, 2026 it's not just a cruise, it's a country music experience at sea. An amazing lineup of performers. Well, we're gonna be there. The Bobby Boncho I'm gonna be there. Keith Urban lee Bryce, Scotty McCreary, Parma Lee, LeAnn Rimes. It doesn't end there. We'll also be stopping in stunning destinations along the way. Go to topshelfcountrycruise.com to book any available stateroom. Gotta hurry though, these spots are filling up fast.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Bobby Bones]

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[Bob Pittman]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.