Lots to Say: Conference Championship Preview and Boston Globe's Ben Volin

Summary

The Bobby Bones Show — "Lots to Say": Conference Championship Preview & The Boston Globe’s Ben Volin

Date: January 21, 2026
Hosts: Bobby Bones, Matt Cassel
Special Guest: Ben Volin (Senior NFL Writer, The Boston Globe)
Podcast Theme: Conference Championship NFL Preview, Coach/Quarterback Changes, and a Deep Dive on the Patriots

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Episode Overview

This episode sits at the heart of NFL Conference Championship Week, with Bobby Bones and Matt Cassel previewing the Patriots vs. Broncos and Rams vs. Seahawks matchups. They are joined by Ben Volin from The Boston Globe for insider analysis on the Patriots’ culture shift, roster surprises, and the rapidly changing NFL coaching landscape. The episode also dances through vibrant discussions about quarterback narratives, franchise pressures, and the quirks of NFL player development.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Car Talk & Life Off the Field

(01:30–10:56)

• The conversation opens with the panel chatting about their vehicles — from sprinter vans, sticks, and family car stories, to Bobby’s journey with his cars (including a Bentley and Lamborghini Urus).
  • Bobby: “When I was just a young lad, my dream was to get a Bentley... Three years ago, I bought a Bentley. Maybe less than that.” (05:26)
  • On family driving anxiety: Cassel shares about teaching his 15-year-old to drive and the terror of being in the passenger seat.
  • Nostalgic look at driving stick shifts versus modern automatic cars.

2. NFL Conspiracy Theories & Injury Candor

(11:18–14:51)

• Discussing Bo Nix’s injury: Bobby and Matt posit on Sean Payton’s directness about the QB’s absence, pondering if transparency was a tactic to rally the team around their backup.
  • Bobby: “Conspiracy theory: Bo Nix didn’t get hurt during the game…[maybe] celebrating, fell down, hurt his ankle.” (11:18)
  • Matt: “I believe it was the right call for him and the team because it can be more of a distraction if you let it linger on.” (13:24)

3. Backup Quarterbacks: Leadership & Practice Dynamics

(13:29–17:53)

• Matt Cassel details the challenges (and often overlooked role) of a backup QB:
  • “You’ve got to be a natural leader when you get on the field as a quarterback. But in order to truly be in a position of leadership…the guys have to see you perform.” (13:52)
  • Discussion: limited reps, making the most of practice time, and working with special teams/practice squad outside of scheduled times.

4. Buffalo Bills Coaching Situation

(17:56–21:55)

• Sean McDermott’s firing is dissected:
  • Matt: Advocates for Brian Daboll (“brilliant offensive mind”) as the best candidate due to his history with Josh Allen, emphasizing the need for an offensive rather than defensive head coach.
    • “Would you hire Brian Daboll as a head coach?” Bobby asks.
    • Matt: “Let’s go. Yeah, I would...Risk it all.” (21:09)
  • The challenge: Finding a coach who can maximize Josh Allen’s prime.

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5. AFC/NFC Conference Championship Previews

Patriots vs Broncos

(22:02–27:42)

• Patriots as favorites: The hosts discuss confidence levels (Bobby: “going away” winners; Matt: “a seven out of ten” on confidence scale).
  • Matt: “The biggest factor in this game is not turning over the ball… they’ve got to take care of the football and handle the pass rush.” (23:44)
• Both teams expected to play it safe offensively, especially early.

Rams vs Seahawks

(27:46–29:45)

• Both hosts lean toward Matthew Stafford and the Rams as the straight-up winners, emphasizing experience and previous matchup chaos.
  • Matt: “I’m going to go with Stafford, Puka Nacua…I don’t think they’re intimidated.” (29:33)

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Featured Interview: Ben Volin, The Boston Globe

(30:46–57:49)

Patriots’ Culture Shift Under Mike Vrabel

• Ben: “Vrabel’s been very intentional about guys getting to know each other… wanting to build the culture and be player-first. He’s been sweeping out the old leadership…and turning over the locker room.” (33:54)
• Individual introductions, team cohesion activities, and building new leadership.

Patriots Roster Surprises & Receivers’ Emergence

• Kayshawn Boutte: “That one-handed catch in the endzone…an all-timer. He’s been tremendous all year.” (35:52)
• The value of newly acquired receivers (Stefon Diggs, Mack Hollins).

Drake Maye’s Leadership Development

• Ben: “For someone who’s 23, I think he’s done a really good job of establishing his voice...accountability, hard work, demanding attention to detail.” (37:33)

Patriots Defense Upswing & Keys to Beating Elite Defenses

• Reinforcements and health (Milton Williams, Spillane) major factors.
• “The Patriots defense has allowed one touchdown in 25 drives in the postseason, which is just phenomenal.” (39:25)
• “Turnover margin is huge…Drake Maye [needs to] be cleaner with the football.” (41:41)

Coaching Carousel & NFL Pressure Cookers

• Sean McDermott’s firing:
  • “Of all years to fire Sean McDermott, to me, this wasn’t it. He wasn’t the problem this year.” (43:12)
• Buffalo job now carries massive pressure to win immediately with Josh Allen still in his prime.
• On the Titans hiring a defensive coach: “Teams always go for the opposite of what they just had.” (51:29)

The MVP Ballot Decision Process

• On voting Drake Maye first-team All-Pro:
  • Ben: “I value team success...Drake went 14 and 3, huge turnaround, won the AFC East...That’s why I voted for him.” (53:37)

Memorable Stories

• Tim Tebow: “He learned everyone’s name...He was a very genuine guy and I thought he didn’t get a good enough chance [in the NFL].” (55:06)
• Gronk: “Gave me like a ten-minute interview. Gronk was always a very genuine guy; never got in trouble and obviously was a big superstar.” (57:30)

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Conference Championship Storylines & QB Legacies

(58:06–64:54)

• Favorite Stories if They Win the Super Bowl

  • Matt: “Jared Stidham…He gets drafted by the Patriots…only started five games…all of a sudden, boom, AFC Championship game. That’s the other crazy thing…” (58:19)
  • Bobby: Sam Darnold’s journey from NFL castoff to potential Super Bowl QB.
    • “He played well, but system. Goes and makes his money in Seattle. I would love to see him win.” (59:22)

• Quarterbacks Needing a Second Act

  • Discussion on the unfairness of quarterbacks labeled “busts” simply by being drafted into bad franchises (Tim Couch, Cam Newton, Joe Burrow).
  • “So many of these guys get labeled...and sometimes it’s just that fresh start.” (60:23)

• Matthew Stafford: Top-10 QB?

  • Bobby: “Matthew Stafford wins another Super Bowl, I think he’s a top 10 quarterback all time.” (63:30)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “People are up to no good, man. People are up to no good.”
  — Bobby, on questionable car repair shops (11:13)
• “I’m a huge phone call guy. If you call me, I’ll pick up.”
  — Matt Cassel (66:39)*
• “I don’t call people. I hate it.”
  — Bobby Bones (66:12)*

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|------------| | Car talk, driving stories | 01:30–10:56 | | Bo Nix injury conspiracy & transparency | 11:18–14:51 | | Leadership as a backup QB | 13:29–17:53 | | Buffalo Bills coaching search | 17:56–21:55 | | Conference Championship Previews | 22:02–29:45 | | Ben Volin Patriots/league interview | 30:46–57:49 | | Best Super Bowl QB narrative | 58:06–64:54 | | QB legacies and top-10 debate | 63:30–64:54 |

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Tone & Style

Conversational, humorous, football-savvy, and occasionally irreverent—the hosts weave in personal anecdotes, challenge each other’s takes, and interact candidly with guest Ben Volin for deep football insight. There’s a blend of analytical football talk, fan passion, and behind-the-scenes NFL stories that keep the episode lively and relatable.

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For New Listeners

This episode delivers an energetic, informed, and personality-driven preview of the Conference Championship weekend, with a special focus on the Patriots resurgence, quarterback redemption stories, and the pressures of today’s NFL coaching carousel. As always, Bobby and Matt bring both depth and levity, drawing out personal stories and insider details to make listeners feel like insiders, too.

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Transcript

[A]

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[A]

Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle is a production of the NFL and iHeart podcasts.

[B]

We got lots to say. We got lots to say. We're glad you're here and we hope you stay. Cause we got lots to. Yeah, we got lots to say. Now here's Bobby and Matt. Hey everybody.

[A]

Welcome to the show.

[B]

Hey.

[A]

No sprinter van today?

[C]

No sprinter van today? No. I brought the Escalade, you know, I just wanted to mix it up a little bit.

[A]

That van is so large. Is that hard to drive?

[C]

Not at all. I told you, dude. It's the easiest car to drive that.

[A]

We have, but to park, it's a van. You have many kids.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And the van that you drive, it is a monster. It is what artists will use before they get a bus here in Nashville, they're touring. Like, to go from a van to a sprinter van is a big deal because there's actually room to do stuff and you don't need a CDL to drive it.

[C]

A hundred percent.

[A]

Do you guys go on family trips with that thing?

[C]

Yes, if we have like a longer, say it's a four or five hour trip or something like that. That's about as far as I'm driving, by the way, these days. You drive it, but I'll drive it. It's so easy to drive. It's easier to park than actually my truck. I got a Dodge Ram. It's so much easier to park.

[A]

Would you let your oldest kid drive the family in the sprinter van?

[C]

She's 15. So now.

[A]

Oh, she's not 16 yet.

[C]

Not yet. Not yet. Yeah, she's got her learner's permit. There's nothing scarier than the first time they get their learner's permit and they want to drive on the roads and they really don't know how to drive because they haven't been practicing, obviously. And you get on one of these two lane roads and they're going to 32 miles an hour. When it's a 40 zone and you got four cars behind you and you're like, just, honey, just stay the course, just stay the course. But there is an acceleration right there. It's. It's kind of. It's a little scary because you're dealing with yielding and all these things that you take for granted when you drive for all the time. Right. But then when you're a passenger and your daughter's driving, you're going, whew, it's pretty. It's a little different, a little scary.

[A]

Are you teaching her how to drive a standard at all?

[C]

How to drive what?

[A]

The old standard?

[C]

The old stick shift?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

No chance. No chance. Let's just work.

[A]

Is that not a thing anymore?

[C]

It's not a thing. When we grew up, I think it was a thing I had like, my mom had this VW bug that we had to do the full stick shift, you know, clutch, and you're stalling out at every different stop sign. So it was kind of your rite of passage. I felt like when you start driving, if you could get into a stick shift and kind of become efficient at it, you felt like you're doing something nowadays. I don't know the last time I even saw a stick shift.

[A]

Yeah, I don't, I don't have any kids yet. I learned to drive on a stick. My stepdad taught me, but I was driving at 13 because we would be in the woods and he would need to be let off here because we would be, you know, running dogs.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Deer hunting.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so he'd be like, drop me here. I'm trying to cut the, cut the dogs off. And then I would be 12, 13 years old driving in the woods.

[C]

That's awesome.

[A]

Well, he just taught me for his own good.

[C]

Right. But at the same time, you're driving at 13 years old.

[A]

I was 13, 14 and I drove a lot and all I drove was a stick. And so by the time we got a permit at 14 in Arkansas.

[C]

Oh, 14 was the, was the driving age.

[A]

And so from 14 on, you could drive with someone in. But my town was so small, you didn't even have to have someone in.

[C]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I bought an old, like a 86 Subaru for like 1500 bucks.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It did not have, you know, the, the stick. So it felt like it was the easiest thing in the world to drive. I guess I didn't think that there were no sticks left.

[C]

I mean, I haven't seen one a long period of time.

[A]

You guys sticks anywhere?

[B]

No. Anyway. Never.

[A]

No, they don't make. They don't make.

[C]

They don't even make them. I bet you they do in, like those luxury cars, like, you know, like the, the Porsche and stuff.

[A]

If you, like, want one.

[C]

Well, not in your Porsche, but yeah, if you want to.

[A]

I don't have a Porsche.

[C]

I know you got something nice.

[A]

Do you even know what?

[C]

I have no idea.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Maybach.

[A]

No, I've never driven a Maybach. No, you're the ex pro athlete.

[C]

You're the one. I'm not a car guy, though. I'm not a car guy.

[A]

When you made your first money, you never bought a big fancy car?

[C]

No, no. I did have a dealer car with Audi, one of those. Is it a 8 or whatever? That was my fanciest car that I've ever owned. It was a nice car. And I don't even know if that's considered like a sports car or anything like that. I've never had anything like that.

[A]

I'm not a car guy.

[C]

You're not?

[A]

I know nothing about cars.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Now, yeah, I've had some nice cars the last few years. When I was a. Just a young lad, my dream was to get a Bentley. And so I asked my business manager when I first started to have some success, I said, can I buy a Bentley? She said, I'll get you a Bentley. And she bought me a remote control Bentley. And she said, I still have it. It's like, right. It's literally right there. And she goes, you're not, you're not ready for the Bentley yet. And I said, okay. And then like three years ago, I bought a Bentley. Maybe less than that. Hell yeah, I bought it and it was large.

[C]

Did it live up to all the expectations of the year?

[A]

Nothing ever does, really. It was amazing, but it was so large, I felt like I was driving a dead body in the back. Like I'm in a procession driving a car and I don't see well. Anyway, and so I was hitting a lot of potholes. Just in here where we live in general, just here. There's potholes everywhere.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I'd popped like two tires and my wife said, you gotta get a suv so you sit a little taller so you can see. And I have a dealer, I have a Hyundai through their partner, and they're awesome. That's an awesome car because it's fully electric, but I don't want to put a bunch of miles on it because I don't want them to be like, why are you driving the crap out of our car that we're giving you for free? So I keep that.

[C]

Isn't that the whole point?

[A]

Yeah, but I don't want to turn it back in with a hundred thousand miles on it because I never want them to go, ah, we don't want to be your partner anymore. You're taking. I don't know, it just feels weird. It's not mine, but I have it.

[C]

Can I borrow it?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I got a lot of driving going on. My miles are way up on all my cars.

[A]

But the Hyundai that I have is an Ioniq 9, fully electric. It is technically, technologically the best car I've ever had.

[C]

Really.

[A]

So I have that. That's electric. And then I have a Lamborghini Urus is what I drive normal, like, otherwise. That's the SUV I have.

[C]

That's the suv. The Lamborghini suv.

[A]

But you don't.

[C]

How's that one?

[A]

It doesn't look like anything crazy. That's why I like it. I don't think so. Do you think it looks crazy?

[B]

Yeah. Oh, you do think that it looks awesome.

[C]

Other. Other than the stamp with the Lamborghini.

[A]

On, but it's like muted.

[C]

Does. Do the doors come up?

[A]

No, I'm telling you, bro.

[B]

But it's loud.

[C]

Oh, does it got a little. Get a little kick.

[A]

It doesn't mean anything. I was never going to get that. I had that car. And my wife said, you, you can't. You're hitting too many potholes. And I'm okay. She goes, let's go look at another car. So I want to look at some SUVs. It was pouring down rain. This sounds so stupid. The only place that was open was the Lamborghini dealership. And so we drove up to it because it was right beside all these dealerships. And I went in. I wasn't going to buy a car.

[C]

I don't.

[A]

I don't. I don't want to look flashy, right?

[C]

But you see, you just walk into the most random dealership, the only one that just happens to be open. If it was a Nissan dealership, would have you walked in.

[A]

There wasn't a Nissan dealership right there.

[C]

But I'm saying if that was the only one open.

[A]

Yeah, because we went in like six places.

[C]

Oh, you did go.

[A]

Yeah, we went into. It was the only one open that we hadn't been to. The last one, it was raining. We wanted to go inside. And so I walked around and there was a SUV and. And I got in it. I was like, this is pretty cool. I didn't really love the color, though.

[C]

What color are we?

[A]

It's a blue.

[C]

Oh, you look good in blue.

[A]

I don't like blue.

[C]

Brings out your eyes.

[A]

I like red.

[C]

I know you're red.

[A]

I've been thinking about getting it. What do you call me?

[C]

Wrapped.

[B]

Wrapped. I was surprised you got that color.

[A]

They only make like 5 colors. Anyway, I want people to feel sorry for me. My Lamborghini. I want people to really feel sorry for me.

[C]

I feel sorry for you, too. And the fact that it's. It's blue. Are you kidding me?

[A]

I know.

[C]

Yeah. So it's a good car, though.

[A]

It's a great car.

[C]

Great car.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So they convinced you just when you walked in, didn't like the color. It is. Right Then I'll try this.

[A]

They didn't convince me of anything. I think in those stores, because I asked. A lot of people come in and just ask to drive stuff. And he's like, yeah, we don't let them.

[C]

Yeah, I wouldn't either.

[A]

He goes, everybody wants to come in and like, get in a Lamborghini. I don't know anything about cars. I didn't. I don't want to wreck somebody's car that I don't own. The same reason I want to put a bunch of miles on a car that I don't own. And so I was like, that's interesting. He said, yeah, people come in. I said, do they come in and how do you know they haven't enough money to buy it? He goes, the people that come in that look like they have money never have money. The people that come in and they're just like, chilling. Yeah, they're the ones, you know, are.

[C]

Probably asking the right questions, putting on a show. Right. It's not a facade.

[A]

I was in a cut off, in like a pair of old Arkansas shorts. They must have thought I had like elon money.

[C]

They're like, this guy is going to buy a car today.

[A]

It's a great car, though.

[C]

Great car.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's. It's good. It's cool. Yeah, I had to, to. I took it in because I had a tail light busted or like a broken tail light. And this dealership said, hey, you have a nail in both of Your back tires. It wasn't the dealership. It was a place that I take it. I don't think I had a nail in both my back tires. And if I did, why didn't they. They had to buy two new back tires. I think they.

[C]

Yeah, well, I had my. My truck kept turning off while I was driving it.

[A]

Yeah, but that's real. You're almost dying.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like my wife had told me a few times. I was like, okay, it hasn't happened to me. And then it happened to me twice. I was like, okay, I'm sorry, honey, I put you at risk. Send it in. And then of course, they send over the bill the other day of what needs to be done on the car. And they had a list of about six things. I took it in for the one pin. It was a connector issue, whatever it is. And I'm starting to look at this list of the five other items that. The transfer fluids, this, that, and the other. I had just done this last year, so I went back. Thankfully, enough wherewithal to go back. Look at the last time I took it in. I did every one of those things. So I called the guy. I'm like, I might be messed up here, but I had this all done last year. I just need you to fix the pen. He's like, oh, it just might have been an overlook on, of course.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

An overload.

[C]

And if I didn't check that, I would have paid an extra $2,500 to get something done that I just had done last year. Yeah.

[A]

People are up to no good, man. People are up to no good.

[C]

Maybe it was a mistake. They were coming after me, Bobby.

[A]

Conspiracy theory. People are up to no good. Okay, I want to lead with this conspiracy theory. The bo necks didn't get hurt during the game.

[C]

He played the whole game, though.

[A]

Yeah. Let's just say maybe in the locker room, maybe a little celebrating, fell down, hurt his ankle. Have you guys heard that Conspiracy theory?

[B]

That's pretty good.

[C]

Yeah, that would have had to happen pretty soon there. That's why Shot Payton came out. Yeah, he just was jumping up in the locker room. I'm just going to tell him he broke his ankle. Do you think that's it?

[A]

Do I really think it. No. But when the game was over, he walked off the field.

[C]

He did. He was wincing a little bit on the sideline. But even the play, when you watch the actual play of him going down on the plate, they suggest that he got hurt.

[A]

They suggest. Yeah. They don't even really.

[C]

Even really know it. The trainer didn't even come out and he threw a sick ball down the field for a pass interference right after that.

[A]

And when they were in real time talking about what had happened, it wasn't an ankle, it was a knee or something. They were like, something's wrong with his knee. I don't know, man. I think possibly they're doing that stuff you guys do in the shower after a game. I'm not going to ask.

[C]

He slipped in the shower. Come on, boys.

[B]

Feet out.

[C]

Broken ankle. Oh, we'll just tell people you broke your ankle already. We're moving on.

[A]

How much did that have to suck for Sean Payton? Just have to say it then, but then have to live it now. Like here you are, AFC championship and you didn't have your quarterback.

[C]

Yeah, you know what? I think that he ended all the speculation on his team because I think he wanted to get ahead of it and said, look, I'm just going to come out and say it, probably address it with the team whenever he got an opportunity to. But to have them realize, absorb the information, realize Bo Nix is not going to be there. But we've got to continue to move forward and put that to rest and get focused on the week without all the distraction of, you know, some of these teams a lot of times won't put out the injury report. Yeah. Or they'll have him limited or something like that. And then it's a game time decision. And then all of a sudden. But the whole team knows instead, hey, let's rally around Jared Stidham. Let's get him going this week. Have everybody on the same page, not pouting for ourselves or feeling bad. We're in the AFC Championship game and we've got an opportunity to go to Super Bowl. So I believe it was the right call for him and the team because it can be more of a distraction if you let it. Let it linger on, especially in the media because that's all they're going to be asking about.

[A]

So you took over for a quarterback mid game, early game, early game, first game of season. So with that, this is different in that way, but he is having to come in and take over for a quarterback. How much leadership can you actually take when you are coming in for the guy? Cause you're not the guy. You're filling in for the guy. You're kind of the guy, but especially at first, you're not the guy. How much leadership can you take?

[C]

Well, you've got to be a natural leader when you get on the field as A quarterback because you've got to be able to get in and out of the huddle. You've got to have command, you've got to be able to go in and show the guys that you're going to have account. Part of that is he's a backup quarterback, so they see him a lot. There's probably a lot of interaction. He's throwing routes on air, he's probably not getting a ton of reps in practice, but he's run scout team doing all those things. So it's just a position of leadership that you're in. But in order to truly be in a position of leadership or for the guys to see you, you got to go out there and perform. And that starts with going out there this throughout the course of this week, what practice looks like. And then as you get into the game at the end of the day, all these guys care about is winning. And so you're going to have to go out and execute the game plan and hopefully not be a guy that goes out and turns over the ball, makes a bunch of mistakes because that limits you on what you can do.

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[A]

When you talk about not getting reps of practice, let's say the starting quarterback just needs some water for five minutes. Can you hop in and like sneak some reps?

[C]

Sneak some reps. So you're saying that the starting quarterback of your team goes and says, hey, I'm a little thirsty coach, I'm going to take off a few plays real quick. Let's put him in. That usually doesn't work because you have an offensive period and you have a defensive period and the offensive period. The scout team is giving you a look of what you might see from the opposition that week. So you know that your periods coming up here, it's very regimented in practice, right? You go from individual drills to to routes on air to usually 9 on 7, 7 on 7. Then you get into team period. So you know the sequence of what it's going to look like. So if you're wanting water as a quarterback or something like that, I know understand what you're saying.

[A]

You got to Run to pee and.

[C]

It'S only three minutes and pee on yourself, dude. Let's get it going.

[A]

But like would that be a time where a player would hop in or do you just wait till the end starter gets back?

[C]

No. Well, if, if it was going to disrupt practice, you're going to keep going practice for sure. Like say you got a bump or you hit a helmet or something like that. You got to get checked out. Second string quarterback's going to come in. But if you're say there's 10, 12 reps in a period, a backup, usually depending on the time of the year, might not get any of those Reps. There's only 12 reps, like say a 7 on 7 period because once again you're limited in numbers so you're not going to have your guys go out there and run themselves to death. So say there's a seven, seven on seven period for first and second down or third down the next day you're going to get about probably 12 reps and those are going to be. If you're working red zone, it's going to be the 10 to 20 area. Then you're going to work down into that 10 to goal line area and you might have a few at the five yard line, right? So you're trying to get all those reps because that's the only time you're going to get those passes unless you're in a team period. So you're trying to take all those reps because every facet of the game plan, whether it's first and second down, red zone, third down, you only get a limited amount in practice and you.

[A]

Want those reps as a backup, can you gather everybody that would make it possible and practice after practice.

[C]

So like the practice squad players and stuff like that, a lot of times if you want extra reps, and I used to do this all the time, is get some of these guys that maybe they were more of a special teams player, didn't get a ton of reps in practice or practice squad guys and run through some route concepts that we saw that maybe I didn't get a rep of. I was there, mentally checked in all that stuff, but I just want to throw that route pattern and see it myself. So yeah, you definitely have the opportunity to do that.

[A]

All right, I defer to you.

[C]

It's crazy to think about the Bill situation because Sean McDermott I think is a really good coach and they're always on the cusp. They haven't been able to devastating loss that they had. I Get it? But when you look at the candidates out there, you, you sit here and for this job, I mean, your, your expectation now, if he's getting fired after Sean McDermott won what, five straight AFC championships, other than this year and go to the playoffs, who are you bringing in that is going to take advantage of Josh Allen in his prime? And you know, I think about the candidates and there's not a ton that you're looking at, just that jump off the page at you, maybe. Brian Dayball I would believe would be a candidate, has experience in Buffalo, had success as a coordinator there, has head coaching experience and somebody that I think Josh Allen has a good relationship with. So if they want to look opposite of what they did from a defensive minded head coach and go with an offensive coordinator, I would have to believe that Brian Dabel's at the top of your list.

[A]

Do you consider the Giants though, to be a franchise? That it's the Giant's fault, not the coach's fault?

[C]

Not to the extent of when you look at it like you would the jets or the Panthers, right. Or the Panthers or the Titans. Because the Giants have had a history of success, right. And they have won Super Bowls in the past. I don't think that they're with the same amount of dysfunction as some of these other organizations.

[A]

Dable didn't succeed there. And you're bringing a guy in, he didn't succeed. Yeah, I mean, obviously he was the offensive coordinator for Josh Allen. We assume they had a good relationship. But you're bringing a guy that did not succeed into. It's now the window you have to succeed. This, this Josh Allen window. You have him for a while, you signed him, Right. So you have long term, but long term is not 10 years, right? So I like Dable, but I'm wondering if some of that shine is gone because he went to a franchise where he had a chance to win and didn't win.

[C]

Right. Well, he went to a franchise that had a chance to win, but when he first got there, they were terrible. And they went to the playoffs their first year with Daniel Jones, the healthy Daniel. Daniel Jones. And that went into signing Daniel Jones back on a bigger contract. But then I believe he got hurt the next year and then the year last year. But prior to this one, they had, they traded Daniel Jones away, had disarray at the quarterback position. This year it felt like they were going to be moving in the right direction. But you still have Jackson Dart as a young quarterback. You lose Malik Neighbors early, you lose Scatterboo you have all these elements that play in to being a factor of why you're not successful continuously. And then I think that upper level management got. You know, Brian Dabel is a tough personality, right. When I say that like, you know, I know him well. He was with me for four years in New England.

[A]

So tell me, would you want to hire him be a head coach for you?

[C]

I would. I mean, because I was with him when he was a wide receivers coach. He also was my offensive coordinator and he's a brilliant offensive mind. Brilliant offensive mind. So he's going to put you in a position to be successful. And like I said, he, he knows Buffalo. He grew up in Buffalo. He's got a passion for Buffalo. I think that he would be a really good hire for Josh Allen because he understands what this offense needs to do to be successful. They've got pieces with James Cook as well, a good offensive line. They need to add weapons on the outside and that's been one of their biggest issues that they've had.

[A]

So you would hire Brian Dabel as a head coach? The Buffalo Bills.

[C]

Let's go. Yeah, I would.

[A]

Yeah. That's a question. I'm not saying you are hiring him.

[C]

No, not Granny Bean is. I would.

[A]

You would risk it all?

[C]

Risk it all. I mean, I just don't think that there's a ton of candidates that you're getting super excited about from an offensive standpoint to come in and do you want a young coordinator coming in, taking over for his first time head coaching job when all the pressure's on you to win? Now, like I said, when you go out and fire a coach that's been as successful as Sean McDern, now they haven't won the big game. I get it, it's tough to do, but at the end of the day, he's been wildly successful. If you look at his tenure with the Buffalo Bills. And now you're saying you want a young coach to take over this program and that's where your starting point is. It's be tough.

[A]

GM Matt Castle just hired Brian Dabel.

[B]

Breaking news.

[A]

Breaking news.

[C]

Breaking news. You're welcome, Dabel.

[A]

It's time for the weekend Preview presented by DraftKings. From first touchdown score to anytime touchdown. Props. Or the thrill of live in game betting. Every snap is loaded with opportunity. We got two games. It's championship weekend. Patriots and Broncos. You two guys are Patriots lovers.

[B]

I like the way you say that.

[A]

You love us. Patriots lovers. I don't even know what to ask here because the Broncos are a big Time underdog.

[C]

They're like five and a half points is what I last saw.

[A]

Almost a full touchdown. At home.

[C]

At home.

[A]

With that defense, how confident are you guys? And don't do that confidence, like you don't want to jinx yourself. Let's just talk real here. How confident are you that the Patriots can go take care of business? Kevin, on a scale of, let's say, one to ten. Ten being most confident.

[B]

No, most confident. Six and a half.

[A]

You are lying.

[B]

65. Six and a half. Why you think it'd be. You think it's more.

[A]

I think you definitely feel more.

[B]

If it was at home, I'd be eight. Eight and a half.

[A]

I think you're still lying about that. I think you're probably at least at a seven and a half.

[B]

I was at a seven. Six last week against Texans.

[A]

But you were at home.

[B]

I was at home.

[C]

You were at home or you were. The Patriots are at home.

[B]

I was also at home watching the game.

[A]

He just doesn't want to jinx it. See, I can't even talk with him. He doesn't want to jinx it.

[C]

I know. I think he's one of those reverse psychology. If I say something, I don't want to jinx it.

[A]

This guy. What do you think?

[C]

I'm a seven. I'm a seven. I do believe this game. When you look at the defense for Denver, obviously they're one of the top two defenses in the league, but you saw what Houston did last week. They created three turnovers. Drake May threw an interception, strip sack twice. He had two other balls on the ground.

[A]

So much snow, though. I mean, it was so much factor, like cold, wet.

[C]

I mean, if it's slick and wet, yes, 100%. But a lot of those happen within the pocket. Right? They just got beat. And so that is going to be. I think the biggest factor in this game is one not turning over the ball. Obviously, either side. It seems very elementary to say that, but they've had some turnover issues in those first two games. They've got to take care of the football and they've got to be able to handle the pass rush because Vance Joseph, who's the coordinator there for Denver, he's a beast. And he's going to throw a bunch of different stuff out at you. He's going to muddy your looks, he's going to blitz you. He's going to try to put pressure on you, and you can't afford to turn over the ball, especially because you're playing in a stadium like that. In Denver.

[A]

Do you think they're going to try to Sam Darnold, Stidham?

[C]

I think to a certain point, because they need to get the run game going. They've got a good offensive line, they've got a good run game. That sets everything up in that offensive structure with Sean Payton, the way that he does it, it's the stretch zone, outside, inside, but then off of that, it's the boots and the movement. And that's a great way to get a young quarterback that hasn't played a lot. Now, he's not young, but he hasn't played a lot of football to get him in a rhythm early. And so I think that you're going to see a lot of that. And they're hopefully going to take a lot of pressure off of them with the run game to set up some shots down the field.

[A]

Yeah, I think the Patriots win this one going away.

[B]

You think they cover that?

[A]

Yeah. Really? Probably late, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

See, if it wasn't. If it wasn't for Sean Payton, the head coach, I'd feel a little better. There's a few like a Sean Payton, like an Andy Reid or something, but.

[A]

If it was, I don't know.

[B]

D', Ameco, Ryan's, again, no offense to him. He's done a great job, but he's not Sean Payton. That's what I think makes me a little nervous.

[A]

He also loves it. I'm like, that's the first guy signed. I think whenever he liked him, he.

[B]

Wanted to keep him there. He could have gone to other places.

[A]

He wanted to keep him there.

[C]

But I think the other factor is you look at Sean Payton, you go back to the Saints when Breeze got banged up and Teddy Bridgewater went in there, he won five straight games. I think it was when he was with the Saints. So he's dealt with backup quarterbacks before that have come in and been successful, and he knows. He probably knows the strengths and weaknesses. This isn't a kid that they just picked up this year, and he's a rookie. They don't have any idea what. What they're dealing with. He's been there since, what, 2000?

[B]

A few years now?

[C]

Yeah, a few years. So he knows the system. He's probably comfortable in it and understands the general philosophy.

[A]

Am I crazy to think that both offenses are going to be so conservative as to not make mistakes? Because they think one, Denver has to be conservative with. With cinema, Right. Drake May and Josh McDaniels, they're going to be conservative because why would they not if the offense isn't scoring a bunch of points on the other side. Like, I feel like both offenses aren't going to take big risks because why would you? Especially in the first half of the game. I feel like that's two boxers just coming out, just seeing what the other person's going to do, waiting to counter.

[C]

And I think that's the exact philosophy that a lot of these offensive coordinators. When you're going in against a defense like the Denver Broncos, you're coming out early on and you're testing the waters. You're showing them different formations. How are they lining up, are they traveling with that slot receiver, are they playing more? Man, are they blitzing us and trying to get a beat on kind of how the game's going to go. And then as you get to that through those first few series, sizing them up, you start to see, okay, this is what they're doing to this formation. Let's counter with this. So it's, it's that punch, counter punch type deal and that happens. And then as you get into the second half, you start to really understand, okay, this is what they're trying to do to us. They're blitzing us heavy on first and second down with run defensive blitzes. So let's throw the ball, let's get use our quick game, do something like that. So it's always that chess match, but it's particularly against a really good defense that you don't want to get those edge rushers going and get into big third long situations. You're trying to stay on track, run the ball and do what you can to limit those guys.

[A]

I would even say it's different than if you were playing against a Josh Allen against a Mahomes, against a Burrow against a Lamar Jackson, because you know they're going to score points. So you got to go out and score points. I don't know that you have to score that many points, right. I think you just have to score some and you play conservative so you don't allow them to score a whole bunch anyway.

[C]

I like, I like it. No, it's true. That's exactly how you go.

[A]

I think I just figured it out. There we go.

[B]

Well, we got the head coach and GM right here.

[A]

Yeah, let's go. Yeah, bring me in, bring me in. Rams at Seahawks. The Seahawks are a 2 1/2 point favorite. I'm surprised. As of right now, it's only a two and a half point spread. I'm picking the Rams. I think the Rams had The Bears almost had their. Yep. The Lord has anointed them all champions of the world. Last week. Yeah, that and, and, and eight times this year.

[C]

Yeah. The Hail Mary at the end of the game. Are you kidding me?

[A]

And they didn't win with all of that. I think it's the ran. I'm just going to sign from above. I'm taking the Rams. Not even. I don't need any points. I'm just taking the Rams straight up.

[C]

All right.

[A]

The best quarterback on the field when it's close is often who I lean with. Matthew Stafford, quarterback on the field is.

[C]

The best quarterback on the field.

[A]

The best quarterback left. But.

[C]

And you know what? I think I'm going to go with the Rams as well because the. They split this year. Right. But the split the second game, they're winning 30 to 14 in the fourth quarter. 30 to 14. They blew it.

[A]

Insane game. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, it was an insane game. Seattle had to have everything go right for them. They had the return. They had that little. What was it, a two point conversion or whatever. That was like a fumble into the end zone.

[B]

Picked it up.

[C]

Yeah, they picked it up. Hey, how's this? Oh, perfect.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

I've never seen anything like that.

[C]

And then they won three, 38 to 37. But then you also look at the first game and you go, well, Sam Darnold threw four picks. They won 21 to 19. They won by two points. In the two games that they played against each other, Sam Darnold throwed six picks. So that right there is an area for concern. And I just think that the Rams. I'm going to go with, like you said, I'm going to go with Stafford, Puka nakua, who had 225 yards receiving when they didn't have Adams the last time. They knew that he was going to get the ball. He caught the ball for 225 yards. I don't think they're intimidated.

[A]

And Jesus, because Jesus allowed the Bears not to win.

[B]

The man upstairs.

[C]

The man upstairs, babe.

[A]

He kept that. That was a week of Preview presented by DraftKings. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app. Use the code to say. That's the code to say. T O S A Y bet live for your share of $2.5 million in prizes. With the code to say in partnership with DraftKings, the Crown is yours.

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[B]

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[A]

All right, let's get on Senior NFL Rider at the Boston Globe Hey Ben, it's Volan, right? It said Boland?

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Just wanna make sure I get it right. I've only ever read your stuff. I've never heard your name. That's always what I was taught.

[C]

Like, okay, good.

[A]

Here's senior NFL writer at the Boston Globe, Ben Volen. Ben's covered the NFL since 2007. He joined the Globe in 2013 after covering the Dolphins and the Gators for years. He is as connected to anyone when it comes to ending Patriots, which is perfect for this show and especially, you know, just the NFL in general. You can follow him on Twitter at Ben Volen Big thanks to Ben for coming on. Ben, what are you working on right now? Like this? Second, what are you working on?

[B]

My travel plans, because first thing in the morning I'm hopping on a plane and going to Denver. I'm going to be reporting behind enemy lines this week. We've got a lot of reporters here in Boston for the Globe to cover the Patriots, but I'm going to go out to Denver and get the scoop on the Jarrett Stidham situation and talk to Sean Payton and everyone involved there. And my plan also is to go out and talk to all the bartenders and waiters and whoever, you know, all the Broncos fans and get their temperature of how they feel about the turn of events here at quarterback and everything. So looking forward to getting out to Mile High and having a good week in Denver.

[C]

Ben, when you heard Mike Vrabel was coming in to be the new head coach of the New England Patriots last year, did you ever in a million years think that this turnaround was going to happen as quickly as it has?

[B]

100%?

[C]

No.

[B]

I'm not going to pretend like I saw this coming. My prediction that I put in the paper like in ink was 8 and 9 and to me that felt good. Like, hey, double the win total from last year. A good start for the Patriots. They've been covered in unicorn dust this year. Every move they've made has turned out well. From, you know, Vrabel was A home run, which I did think that was a great H. I thought they should have hired him last year, frankly, when he got fired by the Tex Titans and the Patriots had an opening. So I did think that Vrabel would.

[C]

Be a home run.

[B]

But Drake may. No. I never thought he would take this many steps forward in his second year to the. To the point where he's legitimately in the top two for MVP. I didn't think Josh McDaniel's offense, with an entire new staff who had never worked with him before, would work this well this quickly. When all we heard for years was how difficult that offense could be, and especially for wide receivers. I didn't think every free agent move on defense would work out. From Milton Williams to Robert Spillane to Harold Landry, has been great, and Carlton Davis has been solid, and Morgan Moses on the offensive line has been, you know, really solid at right tackle and just, you know, and then the schedule has been very, I think, accommodating. They didn't play many great quarterbacks this year, and that's kind of holding true in the playoffs as well. But just everything has fallen into place really, really quickly. And I definitely did not see this coming.

[A]

Being so close to the organization. What was the first or first couple of culture shifts that you saw happen within the organization?

[B]

That's a good question. Vrabel's been very intentional about guys getting to know each other, which Matt probably knows this better than me, but I don't know how much things were or weren't done under Belichick. But Vrabel's been very intentional about having guys, like, stand up in front of the room and tell everyone about his whys and who he's playing for and what causes are important to him. And I think that's been a great way to build cohesion in a locker room where it's a lot of new guys this year, a lot of free agents and rookies. He was also very intentional about sweeping out the old leadership. If you were a captain last year, you had a target on you. Some guys were towards the end of their career, but others, like the long snapper Joe Cardona, he's still an excellent long snapper, but Vrabel wanted his leaders in there, and so he turned over the locker room leadership. And I think that's, you know, it's been helpful for them this year to build their own identity and to really move forward beyond the Belichick days and into now, the Mike Vrabel days. So, you know, he's, I just Think he's been very intentional about wanting to build the culture and be player first. And you see him shaking everyone's hand going into the locker room. I know he did that when he was in Tennessee as well. But variables always, you know, promoting the players and making sure they get time with their families and they brought back the individual introductions before the pregame. For 25 years here, they always were introduced as a team. Now variables had them being introduced individually. But it's okay to have a little spotlight and to get a little, you know, notice from, from the fans. So those are just some of the things I see that certainly have been different from the Belichick days and have helped Vrabel build his own culture very quickly here.

[C]

You know, you hear a lot too with the Patriots about the wide receiving core, how they lack maybe that top tier talent. But who are some of the guys have really stepped up for this wide receiving core this year.

[B]

That's been one of the biggest surprises is how well this offense has been going and how dynamic it's been with not the same receivers because you know, Stefon Diggs and Mack Hollins are new, but you know, Kayshawn Booty, all of a sudden it looks like a Pro bowl kind of player. And I mean that one handed catch in the end zone at the end of the game the other night was an all timer. So he's been tremendous all year as an intermediate to deep threat. A guy they picked up in the sixth round a few years ago who's really, I think been a home run pick for them. Demario Douglas has been great. You know, like I said, the additions of Stefon Diggs and Mack Hollins have been really big. Diggs really more of a possession guy over the middle of the field, but cracked 1,000 yards, you know, was in the lineup every week coming off an ACL last year, maybe not quite the number one that he was in Buffalo, but Diggs was a real solid presence for them and came up big and you know, showed those strong hands in that game against the, the Texans the other day. And then Mack Hollins, he played for McDaniels before in Vegas and he's been a real good addition because his size, I mean at 6 foot 4, he's tenacious, he's a beast as a blocker. And so when they go, you know, like 13 personnel and he's the one receiver on the field that's basically like having a fourth tight end. And so they haven't had him the last four weeks, but he could return from IR this week against the Broncos. So Matt Collins is a blocker, but really as a receiver as well. He's been a really good possession receiver. To me, it's just a testament of McDaniels and his offense. The scheme has been tremendous. And then Drake May, when you have a great quarterback, he can make your receivers great, and I think that's what we're seeing this year.

[A]

Can you give me any sort of insight as to what Drake May's role is in the locker room or how he's grown as a person there?

[B]

I mean, obviously they're looking to him as the leader. And when I said they swept out last year's leadership, you know, last year Drake May was in a tough spot. He's the number three pick and everyone's looking at him as the future. But Jacoby Brissett was elected the captain and he was the one that the franchise was looking for to lead them in training camp and early in the season. So both those guys were doing a little bit of an awkward dance last year about how much should they really be exerting their leadership. Brissette was one of the guys who was not re signed this year, even though I think he showed in. Arizona still has plenty of good football left. But that opened the door for Drake and not to mention the trade of Joe Milton as well. I think that helped Drake May really be able to spread his wings and establish himself as you're the franchise guy now, you're the leader and you're the one everyone's going to look up to. And for someone who's 23, I think he's done a really good job of establishing his voice, not being overly demanding. Still knowing that there are guys in the locker room with more experience than him, Hunter, Henry, Milton, Williams, he's not going to be barking at them. But I think Drake has really shown the right kind of leadership with, you know, demanding attention to detail, with being one of the hardest workers, saying all the right things, being accountable. You never have an issue with Drake about skipping a press conference or anything like that. You know, for someone who's younger and not doesn't have a ton of football experience, I think Drake May really started to establish himself as the leader, you know, in the off season and really as the season has gone along and obviously as his as he's played so well, has really grown already into a great voice for that Patriots locker room.

[C]

You know, Drake May gets a lot of the attention, obviously, and deservedly so. But this defense, particularly in the playoffs, when you watch them throughout the year. They've been very consistent, but they've gotten healthier with Milton Williams. Christian Barmore's back. But talk about this defense, what they've been able to accomplish over these first two weeks of the playoffs.

[B]

Yeah, the health has been so key, Matt. You know, when they were without Milton Williams for five weeks and Robert Spillane for four weeks, and they. Those are overlapping injuries. Not a coincidence that the run defense kind of fell apart. That was the game. That was the period when they were up 21, nothing on the Bills and Josh Allen and the Bills came back to beat them 35, 31. So they got Milton Williams back in week 18 and Spillane back for the wild card round. And. And I mean, you can see it's night, especially the run defense. I saw a stat where with Spillane off the field, the patriots allow like 4.5, 4.6 yards per carry. And then with him on the field, it's like 3, 6, 3, 7. So he's just, you know, a tenacious run defender. And, you know, the last two weeks, it's helped that, you know, the Chargers were banged up and the Texans. C.J. stroud, that was just a mess of a performance. But the Patriots defense has allowed one touchdown in 25 drives in the postseason, which is just phenomenal. You know, they. They took it to heart last week when everyone was talking about the Texans defense. The Patriots defense definitely came to play with those five takeaways. And I think it's going to be some of the same this week. I mean, obviously a lot of the attention is going to be on the Broncos quarterback, but the Broncos have an awesome defense, led the league in sacks, you know, tremendous pass rush up front. And, you know, the Patriots defense is still not the unit that I think is getting a lot of attention nationally. So they'll look for any edge they can find to motivate themselves. But, you know, the defense is excellent right now with Milton Williams and Christian Barmore getting that push up the middle. Cleveland chase on has been a nice find for them on the edge. Spillane's been terrific in run defense, and then I think they have an excellent secondary with Christian Gonzalez, Marcus Jones the slot corner, who's to me, the most electric player in the NFL. And then we'll see about Carlton Davis, who actually is dealing with a concussion. We don't know if he's going to play this week, but all three levels, the Patriots defense has played really well. And other than Carlton Davis, they're about the healthiest they could be. Right now and playing pretty well.

[A]

You just talked about something that I wanted you to shed a little more light into, which is the Texans had an awesome defense. The Broncos have an awesome defense, probably the two best in the afc. What do you think the Patriots learned last week that they can actually put into their game plan this week? Because, again, they were playing such a dominant defense for the second week in a row.

[B]

Yeah, no question. And, you know, the key for them is, is Drake May and limiting those turnovers. The Patriots have had five giveaways in these two playoff games. You're not going to keep winning like that. Now they have to go on the road play in Denver. You know, don't just assume that just, you know, just because Jared Stidham is playing that the Broncos are going to lay down and it's not going to be a game. Sean Payton's a heck of a coach. He's got eight days to get Jared Stidham prepared, and he's going to have a good game plan ready. If the Broncos can, you know, run the ball and avoid those turnovers and play defense, it's going to be very tough sledding for the Patriots. So that turnover margin is huge. The Patriots have to avoid them. Drake May, all those fumbles, I think six in the postseason, he's got to clean that up big time. And the Patriots have to keep the pressure on the quarterback. They blitz the heck out of C.J. stroud, I think 36, 38% of the time, which was more than what they did during the season. So I think they've got to go after Stidham, put the pressure on him to make the right decisions, and they got to force the ball out to, you know, to. To make sure that they come away with the victory. But I think it really starts on the offensive side, and Drake May being cleaner with the football, and I think Josh McDaniels has to move the pocket a little bit more. He wasn't doing that a ton the other night. And Drake May felt like a sitting duck there for. For Will Anderson and Daniel Hunter. So I think they've got to get Drake May on the run a little bit more and let him use his feet to loosen up that Broncos defense.

[C]

All right. Pivoting a little bit, but we're still within the conference, I think. You wrote an article about Sean McDermott. He didn't feel like he should be fired. Can you talk about his departure from the Bills and what. What that was about?

[B]

Yeah, that was a surprise to me. I was just in the press Box on Sunday in New England. Talking to someone, how you know of the Bills issues this year if they lost that, you know, when they lost that game? Like, to me, coaching wasn't the issue this year. It was talent and it was the quarterback who gets a little sloppy with the football at times. And the Bills, you know, they lost the turnover battle five to one the other day, and Josh Allen was a big part of that. And to me, they didn't have the right talent around Josh Allen on offense. I mean, they go out and get granny cooks at the end of the season, the one guy with speed and they plug him in and instantly he's their most productive receiver. So I just think they had a very plotting, slow kind of offense around Josh Allen. And like I thought in the past, Sean McDermott deserved to be fired. When they kept coming up short against the Chiefs and with some of his bad situational football this year, I thought his coaching was fine. I thought it was the roster construction and the quarterback who held the team back at times. I mean, obviously Josh Allen's incredible. I'm not saying he holds the franchise back, but in these games where they lost, he was a little sloppy with the football and they didn't score many points. And, you know, so I guess the owner just wants a, you know, a new change after nine years and new stadium coming next year. But of all the years to fire Sean McDermott, to me, this wasn't it. He wasn't the problem this year. I thought it was more on. On the general manager and the roster construction, and lo and behold, the GM emerges with more power out of this. So I guess the owner disagrees with my assessment, but I did not think McDermott was the issue this year. And he's going to get one of these jobs and he's going to be a good culture builder for, you know, whichever team hires him.

[A]

What do you think the threshold was then? Do you think if he. They win this, they lose in the AFC Championship or they lose in the Super Bowl? Like, do you think there was a way for him to keep his job other than winning just the Super Bowl?

[B]

Well, getting there, I think probably would have done it. You know, I assume if you're Terry Pula, you're looking at it like this is the one year that Patrick Mahomes wasn't in our way and we still couldn't get it done. But again, I don't put that on McDermott. I don't think he coached the Bills out of wins this year. I think it was the team was Flawed, you know, like, especially on offense. They didn't have the right personnel around Josh Allen. So, yeah, I can't say, like, what McDermott needed to do. I don't. I don't know. Not inside Terry Pugula's head. I don't know if getting into an AFC Championship game this week would have been enough to save McDermott's job, but I don't see their failures this year as McDermott's problem. So, you know, he has had nine seasons there and obviously had a very good run and they didn't have success. And so they did keep coming up short time and again. So I understand wanting to, you know, change course at head coach, but this does feel like you're doing it just for the sake of doing it. And so Godspeed. Finding, you know, the right guy. It worked for the Bucks. They got rid of Tony Dungy, Jon Gruden got them to the Super Bowl. So maybe the next guy can take Josh Allen over the top. Maybe it's Brian Dabel. Everyone loves him back there. He was a great quarterbacks coach for Josh Allen. I think, to me, that makes a lot of sense, bringing an offensive guy now to work with Josh Allen. But good luck to the Bills, because I think they did have a pretty good head coach there.

[C]

And Sean McDermott, would you say that the Bill's job, then, whoever their next hire is, probably is a job that has the most pressure on it to win and now, especially with that type of standard being set.

[B]

Yeah, I would agree with that. I don't think it's, you know, he'll probably get a little bit of a Runway, but Josh Allen's not getting younger. And I know these quarterbacks you play for a while now, but He's. He's turning 30. And so this is your prime, Josh Allen, and you haven't even been to a Super bowl yet. So, yes, there's going to be a lot of it is the best job, because who wouldn't want to coach Josh Allen? And I think you're guaranteed to at least be in the divisional round when you take that job. But no question, it's the job with the most pressure. Them and the Ravens. I think the Ravens job will come with some pressure, too, because for same reasons you have Lamar Jackson, a former mvp, still in his prime. It's amazing, these jobs, you know, you had the Steelers job on top of it. Three premier jobs open, you know, at once is. Is not something I had on my bingo card this offseason, but definitely that Bill's job will come with a lot of pressure, but the type of pressure that I think a bunch of coaches would gladly sign up for.

[A]

Now, we're recording this on Tuesday afternoon, so a million things could happen between now and when this gets put out a few hours later. But if you were to have to assign a coach. You mentioned Dable, but judge, like, who else is in the mix there in Buffalo.

[B]

NFL teams, like, they always go for the opposite of what they just had. So the Bills, coming from a defensive organization, I would think they lean more towards the offensive side wanting to get one of these, you know, young coordinators to coach up Josh Allen. And to me, that's. That's a smarter way to go just because you're ensuring that you're going to have continuity on offense. If you have a defensive coach, that offensive coordinator, if he has any success, he's going to get plucked away by another team to be a head coach. So I'm a big proponent of the head coach as also the offensive guy. Just to ensure that you're not going to or you're going to have that consistency year after year. And with McDermott and the Bills lived it. They had, I think, three different offensive coordinators during Allen's tenure. So, you know, Dable, to me, makes too much sense. He's from there. He's from just over the Canada side of the border there in Buffalo, and he was. He got the most out of Josh Allen. He's the one who really turned him around, got his career going and his Dable's beloved there. So to me, that makes a lot of sense. I know Rex Ryan was pushing for Bill Belichick to join him there. I don't expect that to happen, but I guess you never know with Terry Pula. That would certainly be a home run or an interesting hire, I guess. But I would just think that the Bills go offense just to find someone who can really maximize the prime years of Josh Allen.

[C]

All right, I got to jump over to the NFC side, talk about this Rams Seattle game. What are your thoughts going into this game? Obviously, it's their third meeting and both of the first two matchups were close. Close games.

[B]

Yeah, epic games. And I feel like this one might be as well. My first thought is that the Seahawks really have the rest benefit. I think they get an extra day of rest from the rant. You know, the Rams played Sunday night in Chicago. They got to fly back and then go out to Seattle, which isn't a long trip. But the Seahawks will be the more rested team, especially coming off the bye as well. And man, the Seahawks have just been blowing doors off their opponents lately. Their defense is flying around like, you know, the days of old. And their offense looks what looks really solid as well. Sam Darnold doesn't have to do too much. That's kind of their, their formula. As long as Sam Darnold only has to throw 17 passes a game, I think that's perfect. You know, that said, I think the Rams are like the one team you do not want to see coming into Seattle. If you're the Seahawks, like a division opponent who's not afraid of you, who's pretty ticked off away about the way the last game ended with that crazy overtime game or whatever it was. Stafford's got great experience. Sean McVay, great experience. Like, I think it's going to be another tight, tight game. You know, two, two great rivals going at it. I view both of those teams as probably the two stronger teams remaining. And whoever wins, I'd probably expect them to win the Super Bowl. But that's going to be a real like black and blue kind of game on Sunday, which the Rams just proved they can win. Going into Chicago and winning in the cold there, I think that was a real important win for the Rams, who struggled, you know, in elements and have looked, I think, a little soft over the last few years. So that was. They come off a really strong win in Chicago and now they're going to be galvanized going into Seattle. So that's going to be a really, really good game. I think I might take the Rams in an upset just because I like Stafford over Darnold, but that's going to be a really fun game on Sunday.

[A]

Hey, something else that you just mentioned where you're talking about coaches coming in and you know, you want it to be an offensive guy, especially if you've got a quarterback that you're building behind. We live in Nashville. We just, we like I'm on the team. But the Titans just hired Salah as the coach. Defensive guy. But they've, you know, Cam Ward going into a second year. But you're right, like you bring in a defensive guy and any sort of offensive success is going to lead to that coordinator being plucked to somewhere else. Why would they go with a solid here?

[B]

That's a great question. I did think they would go offense, but to my point before, you know, they went, they did the opposite. They had a first time offensive coach in Brian Callahan. Now they go to an experienced defensive coach in Salah. You always see that with these teams they just hire the opposite of what they just had. Yeah, I think Robert Sala is someone that they view as, you know, got a bad shake in New York and never really had a quarterback. And that team is just dysfunctional and swallows up good coaches. And, you know, I don't mind a coach who didn't have a great record the first time. Bill Belichick didn't either. In Cleveland, you learn from your mistakes. You know, the quarterback situation, I think is so. Is such a big factor in how well a coach does. I guess the one. The one thing I can think of, though, is, you know, when you're getting Salah and he's coming from the 49ers, I would assume the plan is for him to bring a Kyle Shanahan coach and bring that scheme to Nashville, you know, install that offense, which I think has been a really good offense for a lot of young quarterbacks and is kind of the hot offense around the league. So that's. That's my guess is that they like Saleh, you know, as a culture builder and as an experienced coach, and that he has a plan to bring along someone from the 49ers from the Kyle Shanahan tree to go run that offense and get the most out of Cam Ward. And we've seen quarterbacks take a big jump from year one to year two. Drake May is a great example. Cam Ward, I don't think got great coaching this year. Not that I was on the inside, but that that team just looked very dysfunctional this year. So you bring in Salah and I guess maybe the 49ers offense, and maybe that's a team that can turn things around. But, you know, the Titans have not made great decisions organizationally the last few years, that they had a pretty good setup with Brable and John Robinson for a while, and it's been a lot of moving parts since then. So we'll see if they found the right mix this time.

[C]

All right, I know that you're an AP voter, so, like the. The big awards at the end of the season, number one, who's your mvp and what's the criteria that you base that off of? Not just because you cover the Patriots.

[B]

I mean, they asked me, not. They asked me not to reveal it before.

[C]

It's, give us just a wink. Give us a wink.

[B]

So I have. So for eight, you also get to vote for the All Pro teams, and those were announced. And I voted for Drake May for first team All Pro and Stafford for second team. It's very close. Both had excellent Seasons, I guess I'm a Boston homer, but I just thought most of the stats other than like raw passing yards and raw touchdowns obviously were in Stafford's favor. But every other stat and analytic was in Drake May's favor. The completion percentage and specifically the completion percentage on top of his yards per attempt, like he was pushing the ball downfield and still completing a very high rate of passes. The record was better. He won his division. You know, I know the schedule is not apples to apples, but you know, like the advanced analytics, like the expected points added, all that stuff like drinking like blue Stafford away. And one stat that I did find, I looked at touchdown passes from the two yard line or closer. Stafford led the league with 11 and no one else had more than five. So to me that's like a little bit of stat padding. They get down to the goal line and they get Stafford his touchdown passes. So. But I value team success. And Drake went 14 and three, huge turnaround won the AFC East. To me, I view wins as a quarterback stat. I think the quarterback is very directly involved in a team success. So Drake had great, great numbers, great success. And so that's why I voted for him for first team All Pro.

[A]

One final question. I know you spent a lot of time with the Gators. Can you give me a epic Tim Tebow story?

[B]

I'll tell you what. I love Tebow because he was pretty down to earth. He was huge. When I covered him his junior and senior year of college, I mean, the guy was a rock star, especially in the south, like in the sec, he could not go anywhere. It was like living totally in a fishbowl environment for him. And so many strains on his time between media. You know, ESPN always wants a piece of him. And then he's always doing community work and church work and things like that, missionary work. Like, the guy always had people pulling him a million different directions. But he, he learned everyone's name. He was very genuine. And when he got to the Patriots, there was like, he just tried out in preseason. He got cut. But it was the third preseason game, we're in Detroit. He didn't play. So we went to him after the game and said, you didn't play. Are you worried about getting cut? And whatever, blah, blah, blah. And after the interview ends, he like, I turned to walk away and someone grabs me by the shoulder and I turn around and it's Tim. And he goes, ben, what's up, man? Like, how you doing? How long have you been in Boston? Like, this is so cool. And I frankly I didn't even know that he even remembered who I was. So he was just. I always thought he was a very genuine guy and I thought he didn't get a good enough chance. I thought, you know, through for 300 yards in a playoff game against the Steelers, like Tebow deserved more of a chance in the NFL. But I always thought he was a pretty genuine guy.

[C]

Who's your favorite Patriot that you've covered since covering the team?

[B]

I mean, everyone, it's always like Slater and McCourty. Everyone always says those two because they're such. And that's Devin McCourty and Matthew Slater. Just the salt of the earth, guys. Great team leaders, you know, voice of the locker room, always there to whenever things didn't go right to, you know, speak for the team. And Slater was such a great guy to talk to because he, on special teams dealt with so many of the, you know, younger players and guys who were struggling. So I loved, you know, Devin McCourty and Matthew Slater. Martellis Bennett was always a trip. You never wanted to miss a Martellus Bennett press conference. And I love Gronk, man. The same things that what I said about Thibaut, same thing about Gronk. Very genuine guy. For as big and popular as he was, you know, I love the fact that he was always going, did a lot of community work on Tuesdays, going to children's hospitals and stuff. And the guy like when he got to Tampa, I went down there to write on him. I didn't know if he knew my name. Gets out of his golf cart. Ben, what's up, man? How you doing?

[C]

What do you need?

[B]

And gave me like a 10 minute interview. Like Gronk was always a very genuine guy, never got in trouble and obviously was a big superstar. So I love covering Gronk.

[A]

Ben, have a safe trip to Denver. These guys want you to come back with a W for the Patriots, obviously. Thank you for the time and we'll continue reading your work. You do a great job, so really appreciate it.

[B]

Awesome. Thank you guys so much.

[A]

Thanks.

[C]

Ben.

[A]

Of the four quarterbacks left, which story do you like the most if they were to win the Super Bowl?

[C]

Of the four left, whose story do.

[A]

You like if they win the super.

[C]

Bowl, you've got to go. Jared Stidham, Are you kidding me?

[A]

It's a great story.

[C]

It's a great story. He gets drafted by the Patriots. He's kind of there to take over after Brady leaves, but then they bring in Cam Newton and that gets carte blanched. He's only started, what, five games played for the Raiders A little bit. Been on the shelf for a little while, just keeping that thing healthy, waiting in the wings. All of a sudden, boom. AFC Championship game. Guess what? You're in. And nobody even got to see him play last week. That's the other crazy. How often do you see a starting quarterback go down after the game's over, after the game's over, like, finishes the game. And it's not until afterwards that you say, oh, guess what? You're starting the biggest game that this franchise has had in years.

[A]

I think it'd be a great story. There's going to be so much media inquiry this week to him and. And if they win, he's going to be the guy that, when he speaks at the podium, super bowl days down on the field, when it's just like a sea of people around him, everybody. That would be an interesting story. I would expect that from you. It's good because maybe you see a little bit of you and him.

[C]

Oh, a hundred percent.

[A]

I'm going to go, Sam Darnold. Yes, he was. He was nothing. Went to the. Drafted by the jets, went to the Panthers. Goes and just chills with the Niners. Oh, okay. Well, I think we. You're definitely a great, great little backup here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Plays his brains out. Minnesota. No, he's just a system quarterback. He played well, but system goes and makes his money in Seattle. I would love to see him win. I would, too, because I think it also gives. We talked about coaches and like, does it remove the shine? I think it helps these quarterbacks that go to these organizations that don't play well, that if a quarterback like a Sam Darnold is able to go and play in these bad places and still actually be good, they're just not written off.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Baker Mayfield's another example of that. Like, if you play with the. If you're a quarterback and you get drafted early by those teams, because you're always getting drafted early by those teams because they're always bad. When it doesn't work out and you leave, we shouldn't look any worse at you. You're five years out, you're starting over 100%.

[C]

Because so many of these guys get labeled, right. They're bust. And the next. They draft the next guy and they go through the same stuff because it's an organizational problem. It's not always the player. And coaching makes a difference. And that's why you see so many of these guys, even Mack Jones this year, going back playing the Five games. What was he, five and one or something? I mean, four and one, something like that this year. But he's playing under Kyle Shanahan in a system that has held true to being successful for quarterbacks and then a guy like Sam Darnold. Because I know the adversity that you go through not, and I'm not talking about physical, I'm talking about the mental adversity that you go through when you're a quarterback and things aren't going well and you're the face of the franchise or supposed face of the franchise and you struggle and you can't get out of that. And then they all of a sudden you're cut and you're sent over to the and labeled and labeled to the Panthers. And you're a backup at the Panthers with Baker Mayfield and one other player was there as well at the time, but gets to start because somebody gets hurt. Same thing. Team wasn't very good again. Now you're reiterating that label that people put on you. And sometimes it's just that fresh start, but he gets an opportunity and to fight through all that and to still have that self confidence that you can go out and play well and then to go out and do it, not only last year, but now this year. It's a great story and it's a great testament to just how people can overcome those type of circumstances.

[A]

I think at quarterbacks that had been drafted by different organizations might have actually been good.

[C]

Tim Couch, oh God, he got absolutely murdered when he was with Cleveland. Guy was an absolute stud. Yes.

[A]

And you know why he's not a stud in our minds? Because he played for Cleveland. And then it makes you look at guys like Cam Newton and go, dude, you must have been real, real good.

[C]

He was unbelievable.

[A]

You must have been real, real good in order to take that poverty franchise and make them pretty good.

[C]

Yeah. Successful year in, year out.

[A]

I'm Panther guy, by the way, for the record. I'm big Panther guy.

[C]

Keep winning mvp. Take him to a Super Bowl.

[A]

Keep pounding.

[C]

Yeah, keep pounding. I agree with you. Because when he walked in that building, that's when you know some, something's different. And then you go out in game after game, you watch him and go, oh my God, he, he single handedly willed this team to win and just started winning consistently. And that's why you draft a quarterback like that high, hoping that you catch that same type of difference maker.

[A]

They have to be such a, such a difference maker. Going to one of those bad organizations, like look at Burrow. Because the Bengals are that. Except they got Burrow.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And Burrow was able to elevate and.

[C]

Took him to a Super Bowl.

[A]

Yes. Because the Bengals are not an organization. They're not rich. Those. The owners of Bengals, their money is the team.

[C]

Oh, 100%.

[A]

They're not super billionaires. That. It's just kind of their fun project and they throw money at it, like, so they don't spend a lot of money. Obviously. No outdoor practice facility for 50 years.

[C]

We don't need one.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Go indoors.

[A]

So guys like Joe Burrow should be appreciated even more, because not only is he able to again, transcend the poverty organization, but he's able to win so much, he forces them to spend money on other things, like wide receivers.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So. All right. I just. It's good. The most boring story, no offense to you guys, is Drake May. What? It doesn't mean it's not great, but I'm telling you, Matthew Stafford wins another Super Bowl. I think He's a top 10 quarterback all time.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, statistically, he already is, but.

[A]

But only one super bowl, and I think that's what keeps him out of that. In the actual list of people going, let me rate the top quarterbacks. You give him another one. I think he's in there because he does have all the statistics.

[C]

I mean, Drew Brees, didn't he only win one Super Bowl?

[A]

But he is.

[B]

He.

[A]

It was after a hurricane.

[B]

Yeah, but he won it.

[A]

He won it. He won it for the city.

[C]

Yeah, he won it for the city. But as far as. I think Drew Brees is one of the top quarterbacks to ever play the game. He's only won one Super Bowl. Peyton Manning, who arguably is number two, he won two Super Bowls. Right? Two different organizations.

[A]

I guess my point with Stafford is he played with Detroit. We're talking about poverty franchises that don't win. He just was not in the mix of being talked about highly where Breeze was talked about highly. He was one of MVPs. He was getting close. He was always in the conversation of, this guy's awesome. He just wasn't winning it. So Stafford didn't get that because they were terrible.

[C]

Yeah. It's like Miles Garrett. He's one of the biggest freaks that we'll ever see play the game at his position. Yeah. And he's in Cleveland.

[A]

He could have left, though. Yeah. He took the.

[C]

You know, he took that money.

[A]

He. Steve Millered it.

[C]

He.

[A]

You know what?

[C]

I'm gonna be fine. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

[A]

You guys pretty pumped about this weekend.

[C]

Oh, it's gonna be awesome.

[A]

Yeah?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, how are you not. This is the best time of year.

[A]

I'm asking about the Patriots specifically.

[C]

I'm fired up about the Patriots. I'm super stoked for my boy Braves. And would you.

[A]

Have you texted him? Do you text him?

[C]

Oh, 100% I did. He hasn't responded yet, though. I'm sure you got, like, 500,000 text messages.

[A]

But do you take offense to that? Because I do. I don't care what's going on. If I don't get a text back, I'm like, I don't.

[C]

Because I'm a really bad texter.

[A]

Yeah, you are, because you have text.

[C]

Me before Thursday, and then you'll get it on Thursday. Like, hey, bud, sorry I missed this.

[A]

And I'm like, how do you miss.

[B]

It for two days?

[C]

How do you miss it for two days?

[B]

Just.

[C]

Yeah, so I'm not a very good texter. And so if somebody doesn't respond to me, it's totally fine as long as I let them know that I'm thinking about them.

[A]

That's good.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

He's a phone call guy.

[C]

I'm a huge phone call guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love if you were. Dude, if you call me, I'll pick.

[A]

I will never call you. I don't call anybody.

[C]

You'll never call me.

[A]

I don't call anybody. Kevin, have I ever called you on the phone?

[B]

The only time, really is, like, after we record something and you leave and you're like, just like a note or you leave a voice.

[A]

Yeah, I live.

[C]

He has. He has done a voice message, but that's just to avoid any part of the conversation. I just want to let you know something, and that's it.

[A]

I don't call people. I don't call people. I hate it.

[C]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, it's gross.

[C]

I can't wait to call you.

[A]

I won't answer.

[C]

Huh? I just leave you the most random voicemails.

[A]

I'll never check it, but I don't mind FaceTiming people.

[C]

Oh, so if I FaceTime you.

[A]

Yeah, because there are social cues in FaceTiming.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And social cues are what allows me to get off the phone earlier.

[C]

Yeah, I get it.

[A]

I am awkward if it's just talk. I'm awkward anyway until there's a microphone on. It's not like I come in a room and I'm the most gregarious guy in the bar.

[C]

What are you talking about? You lit this room up when you came in here earlier.

[B]

Shoot.

[A]

I walked in, I was like, I don't feel great, guys.

[C]

Don't talk to me.

[A]

Microphone comes on. Let's go, baby.

[C]

Hey, baby. Give me some juice.

[A]

Yeah. I don't call Brandon. Do I ever call you?

[B]

No, man, it's FaceTime.

[A]

Brandon and I have been friends for 13 years, and I know not to.

[B]

Call you, like, ever.

[A]

It's just. I won't answer.

[B]

Yeah, I don't think I've ever called you unless it's, like, a hotel. Hey, I need this real quick. Other than that, no, never.

[A]

I think people just in case you need something. One, like, emergency. Yeah, yeah. If I call anybody, it's. And I would say if you guys call me, it's answered immediately, because I know this is not typical. So something may be wrong.

[C]

Oh, so I can play off that right now. So I could be like.

[A]

But now you've told me, so I won't answer it.

[C]

Damn it.

[A]

I know.

[B]

You ruined it.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. He doesn't want to hear from me. Let's be honest.

[A]

No, I do. I. I would. I used to text Matt a lot, and I would never get a text back.

[C]

That's not true.

[A]

All my texts were, I would say, timely, Meaning, can I get an answer in the next, I don't know, 24 hours? And then you get a message back. Two and a half days later, you go, I don't feel like I can send a letter. Like, put a stamp on a letter and get it there the same amount of time I got.

[C]

Yeah. I just opened up this letter, man. Thank you so much for writing me.

[A]

I think I'd get a. From him before I got a text.

[C]

Dear Bobby, sitting by my pool right now.

[A]

Do you have a bunch of texts on your phone that you haven't read? Do you not read them, or do you just not respond to them?

[C]

I've probably got 10 or 15 texts that I haven't responded to. But if that would be, like, you scroll down, but do they say red?

[A]

Do they say dotted?

[C]

They say dotted.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Or if I read it and I need to respond at some point, I'll put unread. But a lot of it is if I need to pay, like, I forgot to pay something, or I did this or the other, it's something.

[A]

Dude, Bucky's coming after you.

[C]

Coming after me, bro. Took Houston last week.

[A]

The thing with Castle, too, is, if I text him and said, hey, you want to get lunch Saturday? But I send it on a Wednesday, I'm not going to hold that spot on my calendar for two Days as he comes back to me.

[C]

No, but when the hell have you text me on a Wednesday and said, let's go to lunch on a Saturday? Never.

[A]

That's not true. That's just not true. Really early on, before I decided I.

[C]

Can'T, we went to lunch together.

[A]

I know. And I had to hold a spot for like, two days before you responded.

[C]

No, there's been times.

[A]

We all have our strengths. You're the great. You're the greatest, nicest, warmest human.

[C]

Like I said, call me, dude. See, your strength is texting. I'm a caller.

[A]

I would never call.

[C]

I just wouldn't. I would want to talk to you more than I do on this.

[A]

No, it's not about talking. I just don't want to talk. I didn't. I like talking to you. I like talking to all. Everybody in here.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

I hate talking on the phone.

[C]

Oh, man.

[A]

Your beard looks good, though. Yeah, I'm glad you're still letting it roll.

[C]

Yeah. I'm gonna have to shave this thing, though, probably before the Super Bowl.

[A]

Why?

[C]

I don't know. Kind of professional. Look. Look at you. You got Bobby baby face on over there all the time.

[A]

You look great.

[C]

Perfect. You like the cat? Bobby baby face with the cat lick.

[A]

The hit by snow.

[C]

Look, the milk. Oh, dude, the snowstorm's coming. It's going to be, like, epic.

[A]

It never is when they say it.

[C]

Never is, but they are saying potential, which always means less. 15 inches.

[A]

That's it. Thank you, guys. You know what? For you guys sake, go Pats.

[C]

Yeah, let's go Pats.

[A]

I always like to see my friends enjoying life. Thanks to Ben Bolin for coming on.

[C]

He was awesome.

[A]

He was great. Go follow him on Twitter. Or X. Make sure you say X. I don't say X. Huh?

[C]

Everybody still says Twitter.

[A]

Yeah. So anyway, go follow Ben. Thank you, guys. And that's Matt Castle. That's Kickoff.

[B]

Kevin.

[A]

That's Brandon Ray. We've had lots to say. Goodbye, everybody. Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle is a production of the NFL and iHeart podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.