Lots to Say: New Super Bowl City and PFF Draft Analyst Trevor Sikkema

Summary

The Bobby Bones Show — "Lots to Say": New Super Bowl City & NFL Draft Insights with Trevor Sikkema

Date: April 21, 2026
Host: Bobby Bones (with Matt Cassel)
Guest: Trevor Sikkema (PFF Draft Analyst, co-host of NFL Stock Exchange)

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Episode Overview

In this lively, football-focused episode, Bobby Bones and Matt Cassel share reactions to NFL news—including rumors about a Super Bowl coming to Nashville and speculation on major player trades. The highlight is an in-depth segment with PFF's Trevor Sikkema, who shares draft analysis and future predictions. The hosts also sprinkle in fun stories about sports media and wrap with banter on pop culture, including WrestleMania and celebrity chef Gordon Ramsay.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mike Vrabel’s Statement & Patriots Rumors

Timestamps: 02:34 – 06:19

• Hosts react live to a clip from Patriots coach Mike Vrabel, who addresses the media for the first time before the draft regarding unspecified controversy, likely relating to recent negative press.
  • Vrabel's tone is apologetic, stressing commitment to improvement and avoiding distractions.

    “We believe in order to be successful on and off the field, you have to make good decisions. That includes me.” — Mike Vrabel (04:20)

• Bobby and Matt agree the “move on” approach mirrors “old school Belichick,” moving to tamp down media attention.

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2. Nashville as Potential 2030 Super Bowl Host

Timestamps: 06:19 – 08:25

• Buzz surrounds reports that Nashville will host the Super Bowl in 2030 after the completion of a new stadium.
  • Both hosts emphasize the city’s infrastructure and excitement about hosting:

    “We have the infrastructure to host a Super Bowl... This entire town is people coming to town.” — Bobby Bones (06:58)

  • Speculation about a country music halftime show and hopes the Titans’ performance will match the city’s new prestige.

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3. Nashville Sports Growth: Draft, MLB, and More

Timestamps: 08:25 – 15:26

• Bobby shares personal experiences working the NFL Draft in Nashville—the energy, the crowd, and backstage stories.
• Discussion turns to the city’s sporting future:
  • MLB Expansion:
    • Bobby reveals he’s an early minor investor (and public face) in a group pursuing an MLB team for Nashville:

      “If we get a baseball team, I’m going to walk around cock of the walk... My jersey says owner on the back.” — Bobby Bones (14:38)

    • Matt wonders if Nashville could also land an NBA team, but Bobby says Memphis’ proximity makes that unlikely.
    • The hosts discuss regional dynamics—resistance from teams like the Atlanta Braves to new, nearby competition.
  • Minor League Fandom: Nashville’s Sounds games are celebrated as family-friendly but with eyes on the major leagues.

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4. AJ Brown Trade Rumors & Patriots’ Prospects

Timestamps: 15:37 – 20:32

• The crew debates rumors of a blockbuster trade, sending AJ Brown from Philadelphia to the Patriots.
  • Matt and guest Patriots fan discuss the cap implications, timing, and whether the return is worth it.

    “There’s no way that you trade a guy and take a $40 million cap hit when you can wait a month.” — Matt Cassel (16:28)

• Bobby questions if Brown’s advancing age and prior discontent would make him a risky long-term acquisition for New England.

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5. Interview: Trevor Sikkema, NFL Draft Analysis

Timestamps: 24:43 – 55:20

a. Bengals-Giants Trade & Draft Needs

• Sikkema breaks down the Bengals’ acquisition of Dexter Lawrence, calling it “paramount” for their defense:

  “Dexter Lawrence gives them a presence on the inside of their defense that they haven’t had since Geno Atkins.” — Trevor Sikkema (25:07)

• For the Giants, Sikkema gives early guesses on draft direction—favoring defensive picks with one likely offensive wildcard.

b. Quarterback Depth & Prospects

• Ty Simpson has first round potential, but sparsity of suitors may drop him into the early second.
• Mid-round QBs (Nussmeier, Aller, Klubnik, Beck) offer value, with Sikkema favoring Nussmeier’s gunslinger style.

  “Gunslinger type of a player, right? Fearless passer.” — Trevor Sikkema on Nussmeier (31:22)

c. Jets’ Draft Domino and Pass Rushers

• The “first domino” for the Jets is likely Arvell Reese, chosen for his rare strength and developmental timeline.

  “Physicality and power is a prerequisite to play at the pro level. I am not worried at all whatsoever about Arvell Reese.” — Trevor Sikkema (33:22)

d. Cowboys, Rams, and Chiefs Draft Scenarios

• Dallas could trade up for a linebacker like Sonny Styles.
• Rams may get aggressive—trading up for a receiver like Carnell Tate or Jordan Tyson if the Super Bowl window beckons.

  “I think no matter what it is, the Rams are going to be aggressive because... they’re in a winning window.” — Trevor Sikkema (51:18)

• Kansas City’s needs tilt toward receiver or O-line, with Sikkema leaning toward big-play WRs as top targets.

e. Position Deep Dives & Measurables

• Discusses WRs with “outlier” traits (e.g., Denzel Boston’s size, Cassius How’s arm length).
• Running back Jeremiah Love praised as an elite two-way threat worthy of a top-10 selection.

f. Trevor’s Scouting Process

• Sikkema details his method, emphasizing summer scouting, tape study, and analytics.

  “Tape is king... but the analytics and where guys stand out here and there... that’s how you build that preliminary scouting report.” — Trevor Sikkema (53:21)

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6. Pop Culture, Jeopardy!, and WrestleMania

Timestamps: 59:08 – 68:50

• Joe Buck to host a new Sports Jeopardy for ESPN. The hosts riff on trivia, with Bobby noting:

  “That I can only lose if I do that, because... I feel like I’m pretty good at trivia.” — Bobby Bones (60:34)

• Matt shares tales of sitting as a celebrity eater on Hell’s Kitchen with Gordon Ramsay (61:05), and Bobby teases his own upcoming appearance.
• WrestleMania recap:
  • Detailed, passionate discussion of recent matches (Randy Orton, Cody Rhodes, Roman Reigns, Brock Lesnar).
  • Banter about “characters” vs. “wrestlers,” and the spectacle of the event:

    “The spectacle of it all, it blows my mind. Like the production that they put on for every character coming in, the music, the stage...” — Matt Cassel (65:19)

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7. Odds and Ends: NFL News and Final Thoughts

Timestamps: 63:00 – 64:16

• 49ers lock down Trent Williams, extend key players like Mike Evans and Christian Kirk.
• Speculation on draft surprises: Bobby predicts a bold Cowboys trade-up for Diego Pavia.
• Closing hype for future draft reactions and wrestling events.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We never want our actions to negatively affect the team... What I can promise you is my family... the team... our fans will get the best version of me going forward." — Mike Vrabel (04:20)
• "If we get a baseball team, I’m going to walk around cock of the walk... My jersey says owner on the back." — Bobby Bones (14:38)
• "Tape is king... But the analytics... that’s how you build that preliminary scouting report." — Trevor Sikkema (53:21)
• "The spectacle of it all... the production that they put on… blows my mind." — Matt Cassel on WrestleMania (65:19)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:34 – 06:19: Vrabel clip & Patriots discussion
• 06:19 – 08:25: Nashville Super Bowl chatter
• 08:25 – 15:26: MLB expansion, city growth, and sports business anecdotes
• 15:37 – 20:32: AJ Brown trade speculation
• 24:43 – 55:20: Trevor Sikkema’s draft breakdown (start/end of main interview)
• 59:08 – 68:50: Pop culture wrap-up (Jeopardy! and WrestleMania)
• 63:00 – 64:16: 49ers signings and draft predictions

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Tone & Style

Conversational, lighthearted, and insightful. The hosts balance fan perspective (Bobby’s local Nashville pride and sports media tales), professional analysis (Matt’s ex-QB insights), and expert commentary (Trevor’s scouting breakdowns). Banter and camaraderie abound, making for true sports radio entertainment.

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Summary

This episode blends local NFL excitement (Nashville’s sports boom), draft nerd analysis, and playful pop culture, serving listeners timely football news, behind-the-scenes stories, and expert draft projections. It’s a must-listen for football fans tracking the draft, following team rumors, or invested in the future of Nashville sports.

Transcript

[Karissa Thompson]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Matt Castle]

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[Trevor Sikima]

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[Matt Castle]

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[Bobby Bones]

Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle is a production of the NFL and iHeart podcasts.

[Trevor Sikima]

We got lots to say, we got lots to say. We're glad you're here and we hope you stay Cause we got lots to. Yeah, we got lots to say. Now here's Bobby and Mad.

[Bobby Bones]

Hey, welcome to the show. It's been really hard for me to avoid this Bravel thing. Yeah, I know.

[Matt Castle]

No, it's been.

[Bobby Bones]

Something just happened.

[Matt Castle]

Oh, something just happened.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, so Kevin hit me up and he said if you can. I don't know what this is. So it's gonna be a clip, Kevin.

[Matt Castle]

I don't either.

[Bobby Bones]

This happened today.

[Matt Castle]

This happened today.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. And by the time this podcast airs, there'll be a few hours. So this is probably. Whatever we're about to hear is probably something everybody knows about, but we're going to react to it live.

[Matt Castle]

I kind of like the fact that. I don't know. I mean, how good is it?

[Bobby Bones]

No, I. Again, I don't.

[Matt Castle]

You don't know.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

You're going to find out.

[Matt Castle]

I know, I know. Patriots fan right here. He's on the feed and he, like, got the.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

I'm so happy, you guys, because, you know, the world we live in now. You get everything immediately. You haven't heard it.

[Bobby Bones]

This is actually what he said. He said, hey, avoid it if you can, for when you come in on the show. He goes, I don't think Castle here anyway, since he doesn't do Internet.

[Matt Castle]

No, no, that's true.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Matt Castle]

I live out. I live out in the real world. Just a shelter, the wilderness in the world.

[Trevor Sikima]

Okay.

[Bobby Bones]

So. So all I know is it's a variable clip. I don't even know. It could be about a possible wide receiver. It could be about the Diana Rossini. I don't even know what it's about.

[Matt Castle]

Pretty sure it's not about a wide receiver.

[Bobby Bones]

What's it about?

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

It's about Rossini. He addressed the media for the first time today before the draft, and he opened with this statement.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay. How long is the clip?

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

It's a minute.

[Bobby Bones]

Is this weird for you? Is this your friend?

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, sometimes it gets a little uncomfortable.

[Bobby Bones]

Need headphones to hear the clip or you just.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, I guess so. Well, you go. You know.

[Bobby Bones]

Do you need to. Do you want to leave the room so you don't have to hear the clip and react?

[Matt Castle]

No, of course. This is going out to everybody.

[Bobby Bones]

This is your friend. I don't want to put you on the spot.

[Matt Castle]

It's not the spot. I'm just listening to a clip.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay.

[Matt Castle]

I mean, now, if I was sitting in the room, you know, as somebody that's arbitrating what's going on, then I'd feel a little awkward. But, no, this is fine. I didn't. I have nothing to do with it.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay. I. I just wanted to give you a lifeline here. Hit it.

[Mike Vrabel (clip)]

You know, I've had some difficult conversations with people that I care about, with my family, the organization, the coaches, the players. Those have been positive and productive. We believe in order to Be successful on and off the field. You have to make good decisions. That includes me. That starts with me. We never want our actions to negatively affect the team. We never want to be the cause of the distraction. And what I these are comments and questions that I've answered for the team and with the team. We'll keep those private and to ourselves care deeply about this football team and excited to coach them. I also know that I'm going to attack each day with humility and focus. And what I can promise you is that the my family, this organization, the team, the staff, the coaches, everybody, our fans, most importantly, will get the best version of me going forward.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay. He didn't really say anything there except I did it and I'm moving on. That's what I interpret.

[Matt Castle]

It kind of feels that way. It almost feels like an immense of guilt.

[Bobby Bones]

A little the family mentioned like I've

[Matt Castle]

beginning I, I, I went through this situation. It's brought a lot of negative attention to myself, my family, the Patriots organization in general. And that he's doing everything in his power to be better.

[Bobby Bones]

And if you didn't, let's just say cheat or whatever, let's say you did and you probably come out and be like, look at that. I didn't do it. Like, I didn't cheat. I'm not gonna talk about it, but I didn't do it. So I don't know what you want me to say, but I'm here to talk about football. I think that's probably the way you say that if you mean that. But bro, I don't even care what Vrabel has to say.

[Matt Castle]

But that was the right thing to do is address it now, try to put it to bed, calm down the story, say whatever he's doing to work with the team himself, yada, yada, yada. Now he's addressed it. We're moving on. Old school Belichick method.

[Bobby Bones]

I'll go over now to official reports that super bowl may come here in 2030 to Nashville.

[Matt Castle]

That's what I heard. If you build it, they will come, my friend.

[Bobby Bones]

And that's typical for the NFL. You build a new stadium. A lot of the times you're building a new stadium to get the Super Bowl.

[Matt Castle]

I think it's guaranteed within what, two, three years of completion on a new stadium. You get a Super Bowl?

[Bobby Bones]

Not probably.

[Matt Castle]

I believe that that's some then that

[Bobby Bones]

wouldn't be crazy of 2030. Then everyone was like, hey, breaking news. Big deal. Nashville gets Super bowl in 2030. That stadium should be done Next year. And if that's the case, that just kind of fits in the timeline.

[Matt Castle]

It fits in the timeline, and what a cool place to have it. You saw the draft a few years back. I mean, Broadway was packed, 300,000 people.

[Bobby Bones]

We have the infrastructure to host a Super Bowl.

[Matt Castle]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

For a city that is not as big as a Los Angeles, New York, Philly, Houston, etc. You would think, how can Nashville hold it? This entire town is people coming to town.

[Matt Castle]

No doubt.

[Bobby Bones]

So the infrastructure is here. It is built. We'll host super bowl, crush it. So that's.

[Matt Castle]

They're going to kill it.

[Bobby Bones]

They'll have a country music halftime show.

[Matt Castle]

Of course they will.

[Bobby Bones]

For the first time in forever.

[Matt Castle]

Yep.

[Bobby Bones]

Especially if the format is still doing like it is now. Right now, it is the biggest format, biggest genre, period. But I think it's super exciting for the city of Nashville. I think that I'm pretty excited about the stadium to be built because it seems that it's going to be really cool. But, man, I just hope the Titans are halfway decent.

[Matt Castle]

That would definitely help if they're.

[Bobby Bones]

I know.

[Matt Castle]

If they're good, they need to go out this year and be head and shoulders above where they were last year. At least finish 500, maybe better than 500. And make a ball game.

[Bobby Bones]

Let's be honest.

[Matt Castle]

Make a ball game. It doesn't matter what bowl you're at. The sun bowl, the Las Vegas Bowl. We just need to make a bowl game to give people hope. And then when that new stadium opens, then there's some excitement. I mean, this city loves winning, like every city does, but I remember when the Predators were really good a few years back, and I mean, talk about everybody had a flag on their car. Everybody was rocking the Predators jerseys. I mean, and apparently people that never watched NHL before in their life, but they had something to grab onto, and it was right there in their own city that there's a lot of pride in that.

[Bobby Bones]

I've only ever been to one NHL game. It was Game 7 of the Stanley Cup. Preds and Penguins.

[Matt Castle]

Gosh. Yeah. It's tough to go to the first game at the game. Seven lost. I know they lost. I know. But it still was a Stanley Cup.

[Bobby Bones]

I went to the lot the. The loser game.

[Matt Castle]

Game seven, though.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. Yeah. Very much a poser.

[Trevor Sikima]

I was like, oh, I'll go to hockey.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, I'll go to hockey game.

[Trevor Sikima]

I love. I know nothing about hockey.

[Bobby Bones]

You put ball in net.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

Were you guys here during the. The draft? I heard that was crazy.

[Bobby Bones]

I worked it for abc.

[Matt Castle]

Oh, did you really? Yeah, I didn't come.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

The NFL draft.

[Bobby Bones]

I'm talking about.

[Matt Castle]

I didn't come down.

[Trevor Sikima]

We think we're.

[Bobby Bones]

The military draft.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

No, I'm just. Just clarifying. Just clarifying.

[Matt Castle]

Just the draft.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, I. I had worked it for. Well, it was two parts, so ABC got the first hour, and then it rolled to espn. So I had kind of two crews. It was pretty cool because they were like, hey, we're gonna put you out. We're gonna do some sports and some, like, human interest stuff, right? But it was so crowded that they couldn't get. Cause there was like four or five of us reporters.

[Matt Castle]

The other four, you're out amongst the people.

[Bobby Bones]

So they had us at all different places. Oh, wow. And there were five of us total. The other four were like, hardcore espn, NFL Network sports people. And then me, who was partial sports, but very much human interest. But what happened was it was so crowded, they couldn't move us around. It took way longer to get somewhere. So they ended up, like, sending me to do hardcore sport. It was like, I remember a 13th

[Matt Castle]

pick of the draft.

[Bobby Bones]

Tell me your fault. And so it was super. Like, I could handle it, obviously, but it was super cool to me that nobody else got to do that because they were all trapped in rooms because it was so crowded. I also got kicked out of my dressing room by a famous person who kicked you out?

[Matt Castle]

Come on.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

Excellent rhyme with nope.

[Bobby Bones]

I'll tell you off mic, but I was.

[Matt Castle]

Damn.

[Bobby Bones]

I was pretty pissed.

[Matt Castle]

Have a relationship with him. I mean, you just talked about my buddy Vrabel, and now you won't tell us anything about your buddy.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, but you wouldn't have purposefully brought Vrabel up, been like, let's talk about this. He's my friend.

[Matt Castle]

That's. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And that's actual sports. Biggest story in the NFL today.

[Matt Castle]

That's a true statement.

[Bobby Bones]

But, yeah, I got kicked out of a dressing room, all my stuff, and they're like, you have to go. And they're like, why? They're like, so what's the dressing room? I'm like, are you kidding me? And they were like. And then my manager with me, and he was like, dude, you're here for, like, six minutes, and you'll always have this story. I've never told it. I still haven't told who it was, but I grabbed my crap and left. If I had.

[Matt Castle]

Like, where did you go with your stuff?

[Bobby Bones]

I just.

[Matt Castle]

You had to go to the porta Potty and change.

[Bobby Bones]

No, there was, like, a Big room that everybody was in. I was already dressed, thank God. And there was a big room that everybody was in. So I just put my bag and stuff there one day. I'll say who it is, but I can tell you who was really nice was. I think David Pollock was with ESPN at the time.

[Matt Castle]

He's a great guy.

[Bobby Bones]

Great guy.

[Matt Castle]

Such a cool dude.

[Bobby Bones]

Came up and was like, hey, man, I see you working with this. It's so cool. Schefter was pretty nice. He was very busy. Obviously. He had like nine phones, but Schefter, yeah, Schefter was super cool. Other than that, it felt very territorial where there were, like hardcore sports people that were kind of upset that I was taking some of their oxygen.

[Matt Castle]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Bobby Bones]

And I'm like, guys, I didn't fight for this.

[Matt Castle]

It's super competitive.

[Bobby Bones]

They literally called me to do this. And other than David Pollock. And Schefter wasn't the warmest, but I get why. Because everybody's so competitive over their little bit of time. And it was the first time, I think a draft had been on the network, on abc.

[Matt Castle]

Okay.

[Bobby Bones]

But great experience. Nashville killed it. We'll kill it. Yeah, we'll kill it. We'll kill it.

[Matt Castle]

We'll kill it.

[Bobby Bones]

We'll get a baseball team. I bet you in the next few

[Matt Castle]

years we need a baseball team. I mean, I do like going to sounds games. Great environment, minor league stuff. Very family friend. Minor league baseball.

[Bobby Bones]

I do think that Nashville and probably Charlotte will be the two teams that get a major league team by 2029. There are two reasons. That's awesome. One, I think Nashville can for sure support an MLB team.

[Matt Castle]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

Two, I invested so much money early, I'll be a part owner.

[Matt Castle]

Seriously?

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Matt Castle]

You're part of the group that's trying

[Bobby Bones]

to bring MLB here, not part of the. So I'm part of the group. Under one part of the group. So first of all, they said we need a board to. I'll be honest with you, basically just be the face. And so it was me, Eddie George, Luke Combs. There were a couple other Nashville people, and they were like, you're the guys that are going to represent us. We did like magazine.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

We just.

[Matt Castle]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

You had a couple meetings, but really, when it came to dollars and cents and strategy, we didn't know anything.

[Matt Castle]

You're not on the finance committee. Just the face of franchise.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, we were going to be the people that preached about it. And so we were the first board that they had and they were like, as a Board member. This is way early. You can invest in, like, one area of the team, so you won't be one of the main people, but you'd be under them. So you can put, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in. They said, but odds are we're not getting a team. This is five years ago. I said, well, this is the early stages. Tony LaRusso was still leading.

[Matt Castle]

So you rolled the dice and said, you know what? Hell, yeah, Big time. This city's growing.

[Bobby Bones]

Not people are coming. I just wanted the odds of having a baseball team.

[Matt Castle]

Hell, yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Anything else?

[Matt Castle]

And owner suite access?

[Bobby Bones]

I don't know if I know.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, for sure.

[Bobby Bones]

I don't know if the owner's.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

How much steak do you need for your own suite?

[Matt Castle]

I don't know.

[Bobby Bones]

I don't think I put. Mine is hundreds of thousands of dollars that I put in, not millions, but

[Matt Castle]

it's still a lot of money, bro.

[Bobby Bones]

At that time, they said, hey, we need to fund our group. That's why you put money in. Because we've got to fund the people doing the research. We gotta fund the people that are out going to meetings. We got to pay our executives. And so they're like, if you put in this much money, it amplifies, because you're so early, and there is no team you're investing not in. You're not buying a team. You're investing in the possibility of buying a team. And so, yeah, way, way early on, I put in some hundreds of thousands of dollars, and I was like, you know what if I lose it? I don't care. I have no chance in my life to ever buy a base. So, yeah, this is my shot. Yeah. So if they get a team.

[Trevor Sikima]

Oh, what about.

[Matt Castle]

What about the NBA? Why wouldn't the NBA come here, too?

[Bobby Bones]

Memphis is too close.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, but you heard LeBron James, they don't want to play in Memphis.

[Bobby Bones]

You're right, they don't. Yeah, but I think Memphis is too close. What. What I've heard about baseball is this is all hearsay. So I'd like to say that the reason.

[Matt Castle]

But you're on the inner circle.

[Bobby Bones]

But it's just here you're an owner

[Matt Castle]

of a team that we don't have yet.

[Bobby Bones]

Hearsay, hearsay. For the same reason the Braves tried to stomp out Nashville getting a team. Because it's competition.

[Matt Castle]

It's so close.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, it's competition.

[Matt Castle]

And everybody around here are Braves fans.

[Bobby Bones]

A lot of Braves fans here. Just because regionally, that's what it is.

[Matt Castle]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

So I think that Hurdle has been cleared, guys. If we get a baseball team, I'm going to walk around. Cock of the walk, because I'll be.

[Matt Castle]

I love your. Love your hat. I'm an owner. Yeah. I'm an owner, bro.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. My jersey says owner on the back. It's not even my name.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

So, yeah. Nashville, we hope you get the Super Bowl. Nashville, we hope you get a baseball team.

[Matt Castle]

I really hope you get a baseball team. We're going to have bobblehead night. It's going to be mine.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

Head.

[Matt Castle]

Your head.

[Trevor Sikima]

Just.

[Matt Castle]

Bobby's.

[Bobby Bones]

Owner.

[Matt Castle]

Owner Bobby. That would be awesome.

[Bobby Bones]

I was single whenever I invested that money because I think if I went to my wife now and I was like, hey, I want to put so and so hundred thousands of dollars into something that doesn't exist, that there's a possibility it might exist. And basically we're just paying the people to do the research. I think she'd go like, you do what you want to do, but I don't know if this is the best idea.

[Matt Castle]

I have other uses for that. Few hundred Single as.

[Bobby Bones]

Single as crap.

[Matt Castle]

When I'm like, why don't we just do the college fund instead, honey? Okay, that's where we are. Yeah, that's where we are.

[Bobby Bones]

What do you have over there?

[Matt Castle]

I mean, every. The big rumor out right now is that AJ Brown obviously wants out of Philly. Patriots seem like a perfect fit. Mike Vrabel coached him at Tennessee. You've got Drake May, obviously young stud quarterback that will elevate him there. Josh McDaniels at the coordinator position, which I think is one of the best coordinators in the business. I just don't know if this trade's going to go through on draft, which everybody might is really talking about and anticipating potentially, because at the end of the day, if they make the trade, what, before June, the.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

On June 1st or after.

[Matt Castle]

On June 1st or after, that would be beneficial to the Philadelphia Eagles. Right. Because they don't have the dead cap space. Whereas if they did it before then, isn't like a $30 million cap hit or something.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

It goes from 40 to 20. Cuts in half.

[Matt Castle]

40 to 20.

[Bobby Bones]

So they have to wait till June 1st.

[Matt Castle]

I mean, there's no way that you trade a guy and take a $40 million cap hit when you. You can wait a month.

[Bobby Bones]

So then what's the plus if they do trade in the pick. Yeah.

[Trevor Sikima]

Before the draft. This year's pick.

[Matt Castle]

This year's pick. And that's the big part about it that I think that that's where it becomes pretty muddied and concerning that. But there's no way, at least I wouldn't think the Philadelphia Eagles are willing to move on from AJ Brown even though they traded for what Wicks from Green Bay brought in another wide receiver. So maybe gave themselves some opportunity there if they did trade them. But man, I'd say that's a huge hit to take. And also I wonder what the Patriots would have to give up in order to get them.

[Bobby Bones]

I feel like if you trade them before June 1st, you're out more money. But you do have a chance to better your team immediately with low salaried players because they're on the rookie scale.

[Matt Castle]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

Or if you trade them post June 1st, obviously saving that money but you're not really getting anything that you can use immediately. Especially anything where you're saving money because if you, you're drafting somebody, you're again, you're paying them. Rookie, rookie contract.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

Yeah, there is talks about Keisha Booty going in the trade which is a receiver for the Patriots. He had a good year last year.

[Matt Castle]

He had a really good year last year.

[Bobby Bones]

He was saying him being instead of A.J.

[Matt Castle]

brown.

[Bobby Bones]

No, across, back across, back across.

[Matt Castle]

All draft picks, a draft pick and K's on booty would go to Philadelphia

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

because he's in the final year of his contract too, but he's still on his rookie contract, so it's a lot cheaper.

[Bobby Bones]

AJ Brown does not want to be in Philadelphia

[Matt Castle]

and the Patriots though, they're drafting 31st so the value of. But I, I don't know how you value that 31st pick. It's not like you're drafting 10 and going to get the 10th pick overall. You're getting the 31st in case on Booty potentially. So I, I just don't know if that's actually going to come to fruition.

[Bobby Bones]

What do you think? Pat's fan.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

Yeah, I'm all about it.

[Bobby Bones]

I love you.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

Had a number one since Edelman and Edelman was never like the guy.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. Because Belichick soon as he got him, he's allergic to him. Trade him. Trade him. Trade him. He didn't want a first round pick.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

I know but we did have Gronk. Cronk was a number one in, in many ways. But I'm thinking like Randy Moss.

[Matt Castle]

Randy Moss was the last like true.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, I thought you meant first round pick. I was just saying Patriots used to trade all their picks. Oh no, no, no, no.

[Matt Castle]

I never drafted that high to get like one of those high end wide receivers.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

Yeah, I'm all about it. I hope they do it.

[Bobby Bones]

AJ Brown aging a little though too. Oh, he is.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

I hope we don't give up. Shouldn't say a first runner because if we gave up 31st, it wouldn't be too upset. But I also don't necessarily want them to give up a first round because to your point, he's aging a little bit and it's only going to be about two years and he'll start complaining there too.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, I mean, you get those guys you got to get the ball to. And I get it because Philadelphia is a run first offensive unit, they don't throw the ball that much percentage wise. They're one of the lower on the lower end of the entire league in terms of throwing the ball. So if you're an alpha wide receiver who wants the ball, you're going to want to go somewhere there. They're going to air it out in your skill set, is going to be seen by everybody because that makes them feel good. So I get and understand it. But at the same time, they did win a Super Bowl. That had to be an incredible experience. And he's still super productive on the football field. So it's not always greener on the other side. But as a Patriots, I understand as a Patriot fans, hell yeah, they want a number one wide receiver.

[Bobby Bones]

I mean, living here in Nashville, we saw the Titans trade him for a pick.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. And Variable is there. Remember that after like they made the pick in Variable's face when they answered the question about why'd you do it? He's like, oh yeah, Mabel didn't want to do that.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

Even in the draft room, the war room.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. The facial expression that he made. But I was like, you have to be part of that collectively, gm, coach, owner, that you know that you're going to trade away your number one wide receiver. Everybody has to be involved in that decision. I would think. I don't think that that's a singular decision Based on the GM's wants, needs and what he thinks we need to do as an organization. Everybody's got involved in that.

[Bobby Bones]

In a healthy organization, I would agree. But you don't have.

[Matt Castle]

They also didn't want to pay him.

[Bobby Bones]

Well, they also. You had the owner come out this year, the Titans, and be like, you know what? For the first time, I'm going to let my guys do what they're supposed to do. Remember the statement, I'm going to let my general manager be the general manager. So, hey, go Titans, we're going to Super Bowl. Yeah, come back and talk to Trevor Sikuma, great draft analyst, does the NFL Stock Exchange.

[Trevor Sikima]

One of the best.

[Bobby Bones]

So we'll talk to him coming up next.

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[Matt Castle]

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[Bobby Bones]

All right, now let's talk to NFL draft analyst Trevor Sikima, who hosts a show called NFL Stock Exchange, which is great. Go search it up on YouTube. One of the go to voices this time of year when it comes to prospects team fits, which is one of my favorite things. So Trevor's on with us now. Trevor, thank you for the time. And I do want to start first with talking about the Dexter Lawrence trade, because you said this is exactly what the Bengals needed. Why so?

[Trevor Sikima]

Yeah, I mean, when you look at the Bengals last season, you talk about the spine of their defense, which is defensive tackle, inside linebackers, and then safeties that are playing over the middle of the field. They straight up were not good enough in that area. The safeties were okay. They were fine. Although they made some upgrades this past offseason. But really it was the defensive tackle play and then the linebackers. Now, there's reasons for that. You know, some of the younger guys along the interior defensive line, they were still developing. They played two rookies at inside linebacker. So anytime that you're playing two rookies at a position that's trying to take in as much information as linebacker, it's going to be really difficult. But Dexter Lawrence totally changes things for them. I mean, Dexter Lawrence gives them a presence on the inside of their defense that they haven't had since Geno Atkins. Right. I mean, like, I know that there have been some other guys on the interior of that defense that have played well. But I mean this is a Geno Atkins type of a talent player. I mean Dexter Lawrence is a boulder against the run, but also from a zero and a one technique. Shade knows like he is one of the best pass rushers in the NFL when you are in that technique. And there's just not a lot of nose tackle players that can generate pass rush as well as stop the run the way that you want to. So for a younger, I would say front seven for this team. Paramount to get a player who's an all pro caliber guy. So. And I think for the Bengals, defensive tackle is probably their biggest area of need. And so going into this draft they probably said, okay, we'd love to draft the defensive tackle at 10. I mean, four or five months ago we were talking about maybe Caleb Banks, Peter woods, like guys like that. But as the process has gone on, I think a lot of people have done their big boards, their rankings. I have myself, and you just go, you know, it's just not that kind of a defensive tackle class. So if you really wanted to use number 10 on a defensive tackle anyways, Dexter Lawrence is your best case scenario there.

[Matt Castle]

Trevor. So then on the opposite side of that, you got the New York Giants that let Dexter Lawrence leave, but then they pick up an additional first rounder. How. What direction do you think that they're going to go under Harbaugh, new regime culture, reset all those things. Do you think that they're going to stay on the defensive side of the ball or do you think also Jackson Dart, obviously they, they know that he's going into his second year and he is going to be the leader of that franchise for a long period. Do you protect him? Do you go offensive line? What are you, what do you think the scenarios are for the New York Giants?

[Trevor Sikima]

I think at least one of these picks is going to be a defensive player. Both could be, but I think that I don't think it's going to be, you know, both offensive players. I'm pretty shocked if that would be the case because I feel as though they do want to get a little bit more stout on the defensive side, especially after losing a guy like Dexter Lawrence. When I look at number five, what I've heard is a couple players names and those were Caleb Downs, Sonny Styles and then Carnell, Tate, Jordan, Tyson as of late, so more of like a wide receiver pick. And it kind of felt like they really loved a lot of those guys. And getting this extra first round pick now gives them some extra flexibility because I think they'd love offensive line as well. If you go back to John Harbaugh's comments at the owner's meeting, he talked about, hey, our goal is to have the best offensive and defensive lines in the NFL. Well, trading Dexter Lawrence doesn't exactly get you towards that goal. And so you have to kind of remember that when you have two top 10 picks. And so the more I'm doing mock drafts and obviously the closer we get to the draft here, I think that one of Sonny Styles or Caleb Downs feels like that pick that I'm leaning towards at number five because they're just these true chess piece defensive players that Harbaugh knows all about with guys like Roquan Smith, guys like Kyle Hamilton as well. But then when you get to that 10th pick, I think they're very comfortable letting either an offensive lineman or a wide receiver fall to them. If both Carnell Tate and Jordan Tyson are off the board, well, then there's good chance that Spencer Fano Francis Maui Noah, Veggie Awana, one of those guys, is going to be available for you there at number 10. And if a couple of those guys are already off the board, well, then you might be able to get that receiver that you mentioned, could really help out Jackson D from a vertical offense perspective. So to me, I kind of lean defense with that number five pick now, and I think it's a little bit of an offensive wild card, either offensive line or wide receiver and a playmaker there at number 10 for him.

[Bobby Bones]

Any chance Ty Simpson creeps up into the back end of the first round?

[Trevor Sikima]

Yeah, no, I absolutely think there's a chance that that's the case. It's interesting, right, because when I look at Tyler, I think he could win games in the NFL. Like I think he's a starting caliber quarterback. I think that some people, you know, they, they, they're very analytical and I don't want to say, you know, necessarily poking holes in their game because that's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to evaluate prospects. But when you remember the fact that he was a one year starter and about seven weeks, eight weeks into the season before he got hurt, I mean, this guy was going through progressions. I mean, he was executing game plans the way that you wanted him to. He was making protection calls at the line of scrimmage. So he's doing a lot of pro level stuff. So it's really encouraging signs there from him. But when you talk about him in the first round, well, he's not exactly built the way A traditional first round quarterback is built. He's a little bit on the smaller side, which goes a little bit into the modern NFL, but it's still something to monitor. But really what I think is holding Ty Simpson back from being that first round quarterback is the potential demand because it feels as though the Arizona Cardinals are the only team that are really in on Ty Simpson. You know, the Steelers just doesn't feel like there's a lot of smoke there. The jets doesn't feel like they're super interested as well. Miami went out and they got, they got Malik Willis. So if it's just the Cardinals sort of bidding against themselves for Ty Simpson, then I think that with them holding number 34 very early in the second round, they might feel comfortable and say, hey, we don't have to give up any extra picks. We can sit here at 34, nobody's going to take them from us. We could take them there, but if there starts to be some extra interest from other teams, that's when I could see, you know, a team like Arizona or one of those other teams maybe getting aggressive and trading back up into the back end of that first round.

[Matt Castle]

Since you were talking about quarterbacks, so you also look at guys like Garrett Nussmeier, Carson Beck, Drew Aller, Cade Clubnik. I mean, these are guys that played a lot of football and at one point in their career or another, they were considered first round draft picks. Do you think that there's a lot of value in the quarterback position, particularly this year in the second, third, fourth round, potentially of picking up a guy that could come in and be an impact player at some point in their career.

[Trevor Sikima]

I wonder if the league sort of lets these guys creep a little bit more towards that mid round top 100 line and we might see a run on quite a bit of those guys, maybe in the fourth round. Kind of like you mentioned, that'd be the tail end of that, that range that you gave. But that's kind of the way that I feel about it. You know, Nussmeier is a really interesting one. I'll give you some quick thoughts on all those guys that you mentioned. Nussmeier is an interesting one because gunslinger type of a player, right? Fearless passer. He is willing to attempt the tough and tight window throws that you need to attempt to win games in the NFL. You get some of these guys that are great game managers. They take care of the football and that's all well and good, but there's going to come a time. I know you know this Matt when you got a riffic like you got tight coverage and you just got to rip it down the field and some guys mentally don't let themselves get there, even if they might have the physical ability to do so. Garen Nussmeier, he's got that mental ability to do so. The guy on the other side, Drew Aller, okay, you look at him, big quarterback, big arm. But what I've seen with him over the last three years is that when the turnover where the plays were up and the big time throws were up, they were both here. And then you get that junior year, hey, the turnover worthy plays go down, but the big time throws went down as well. Then you get to this past year and I think both of those rose up. You never got that progression where the turnover worthy plays come down, but then the big time throws, they start to creep up and you get that gap in between those two things. So I, I, I know a lot of people believe in the talent of Drew Hour, that physical ability. I'm a little hesitant. I like Cade Klubnick in that game manager type of role. I don't know if he's ever going to be that guy to really give you those big throws that you need every single week. But he's somebody who I think could have a long career in the NFL as a backup, maybe a spot starter. I think Carson Beck's played a ton of really big football, certainly over his career at Georgia and at Miami. I just am worried about that throwing arm after the UCL surgery that he had. I just don't know if he has that same sort of juice. So he'll really have to anticipate and be an assassin between the years if he's going to be a starting quarterback in the league.

[Bobby Bones]

The first domino seemingly is the Jets. What is that domino?

[Trevor Sikima]

Yeah, I feel like it's Arville Reese and I know that there are a lot of people out there that say, hey, you know David Bailey, I'm hearing David Bailey and there's some very plugged in people in the league who are saying that which the jets need another pass rusher. So I totally understand that. But Arville Reese is the Aaron Glenn type of a player and if his input is in at all involved in this process, the way that Reese plays, how he can play at the second level in space, how he can develop as a pass rusher for you as well. But specifically the pound for pound strength that this guy has, I mean physicality and power is a prerequisite to play at the pro level. And I am not worried at all whatsoever about Arvel Reese on rundowns, about how he is going to handle pullers and how he is going to translate with his strength to the pro level. I get a little bit worried about that when it comes to David Bailey. He's got an elite first step that I would even call a trump card. Sometimes it's, hey, when you have this, nothing else matters but worry about him when it comes to that early down work against the run and are you really going to take a player at number two might be a liability for you on those early downs? I'm not worried about that with Darvell Reese at all. So that's why I think he is that first domino to fall there at number two.

[Matt Castle]

Would you say that there's a case to be made though for David bailey who had 14 and a half sacks? He's probably more pro ready right now to step in and play where Arvell Reese, he was a one year starter last year. Obviously he's a freak of nature. His ceiling's probably higher. But if you're saying between the two, who's ready to play right now and be an impact player? I'd say David Bailey is. Would that be an accurate thought process?

[Trevor Sikima]

I would say that, you know, again, if you, if you're putting him in that role where he's predominantly a pass rusher for you, yes, I think you'll get a little bit better of an early return on investment. But I think it's really important for the jets to realize this as well. They're a couple of years away, right? I mean, like, I think that they're at least two seasons away from really competing in that division. So that means that the developmental timeline for Arvel Reese to me shouldn't be a problem for them. You know, if they were a team that, hey, we got to hit the ground running because you know, we're in the NFC north and we got to go up against these other Titans of teams in the toughest division in the NFL and we're trying to win right now. Yeah, I think the equation is a little bit different because I do agree with you. Bailey might have more statistical success as a rookie, but to me I think that Arnabel Reese has the higher ceiling overall as an impact player. And I think for the jets timeline specifically his learning curve should actually line up pretty well with when the jets are going to get into that next legit winning window.

[Bobby Bones]

The Cowboys are at 12 and 20. We did see that they possibly wanted to move up possibly Package those picks. If so, who do you think they're targeting?

[Trevor Sikima]

Yeah, I mean, Jerry's always up to something, right? I mean, like even when he, if, if he's not up to something, then he's gonna get up to something because he's told us that before. Right. He wants to be the center of conversation. He wants to, to be the team that everybody is talking about. But I do think that there's a reality where the Dallas Cowboys could get aggressive here in this draft. And I think that you look at a couple of different positions within the top 10. Number three with the Arizona Cardinals. I don't think it's any sort of secret that Monte Austin forth their general manager wants to try to move back. Now you could say to yourself, hey, if they're trading three for, you know, 12 and 20 and then maybe some later picks that were exchanging to make sure the value is right, you go, all right, well, if you're the Cardinals, you don't want to drop that far. Well, think about a couple of years ago, Monty Austin, for his first year as the general manager for the Cardinals, he did the exact same thing. He moved down from number three, went outside of the top 10, then traded back up to number six to draft Paris Johnson Jr. So he did a little bit of wheel in a deal and got an extra first round pick the following year. And he picked the player at number six that he was going to pick, a number three overall. So he's not afraid to do stuff like that. That's why I think that's a potential target for them and specifically for the Cowboys. You look at their depth chart right now, I don't think they're starting middle linebackers on the team right now, at least ideally. I think that they would love to have someone else who is not on the team right now as their starting Mike linebacker. Sonny Styles is a player who can come in right away and be that starting middle linebacker for them. The problem is, you know, Robert Salah is going to love a player like that because he's coached some of the best linebackers in the NFL, Fred Warner being one of them. They're picking at number four. He's an option there. And then I think the Giants as well, I went through and I talked about how Caleb down Sonny Styles. That's where I continue to go to. So if you want to get ahead of those two teams, you can jump them at number three. And then potentially, if Styles is still available after four and five, maybe trading up to number six, a team like the Cleveland Browns could potentially make sense as well. Foreign.

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[Matt Castle]

Capacity limitations and terms apply. Learn more about AmEx's partnership with the NFL and premium events collection at Go AmEx.

[Lowe's Sponsor Voice]

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[Matt Castle]

Talk to me about Jeremiah Love. I mean, I think he's probably maybe the most talented athlete football player in this year's draft, but it's always common complicated when you're talking about a running back and the value that you put on that position. Do you see him going in the top 10?

[Trevor Sikima]

I do. Number two overall player on my big board this year. He is somebody who the reason why I think Jeremiah Love should be talked about within the top 10 is not only is he a phenomenal runner, not only does he have the great rushing production, but he's got the athleticism basically in all facets. Explosiveness, fluidity, overall size to take on contact and bounce off of tackles. Like he has the physical makeup and the athletic makeup. But then it's also what he can do to impact the passing game as well. He's got soft hands in the receiving game. He can create those yards after catch. You could use him as a mismatch when he's going up against slower linebackers if you feel like you have that advantage. And so that's really when you start talking about running backs that are worth a top 10 overall selection. You have to be a great runner to complement the passing game, but then you also have to be a part of the passing game yourself. Pass pro. A little bit of a work in progress for him, but I think that we'll get there eventually for him to be that total package type of a runner. But the way this dude can explode natural hands out of the backfield, it's not quite, you know, like the Christian McCaffrey type of a thing. But I think he's got good enough hands and he's natural enough as a receiver to give you that value in the passing game to where you feel pretty comfortable about taking his talents in the top 10.

[Bobby Bones]

Kansas City needs line help. Kansas City also needs a receiver. They're sitting at nine, which is bizarre to see Kansas City so high up in the draft. Obviously they didn't have the season they wanted. Who do you think they're they're targeting here and what position?

[Trevor Sikima]

I think it is going to be more offense, like you mentioned. I mean, there's certainly a chance where, hey, you know, you could be tempted by. I've done mock drafts with Ruben Bane Jr. From Miami. You know, I think that Steve Spagnolo would love a player with his type of power on their defensive line. Caleb Downs, I Think again. You talk about Steve Spagnolo, a veteran defensive coordinator, one of the best in the league. You can't put too much on Caleb Downs play. I mean, Caleb Downs started for Nick Saban as a true freshman. Who does that? I bet the list is I. You can either count it on two hands or maybe even one, the amount of DBs that have started as true freshmen for Nick Saban, because that position and that group is his pride and joy as well. So I think those positions are on the table for them. But I'm with you, Bobby. I can't help but think it's offense. I can't help but think if Carnell Tate or Jordan Tyson is available for you, those are the types of receivers that you don't have. Carnell Tate gives you that vertical ability. He's a contest to catch monster 30, 40, 50 yards down the field. They don't have that right now. Jordan Tyson, great when it comes to the intermediate route running, he's not just a. Okay, we give him the ball with a low average depth of target and we try to get him some magic and make happen, make things happen after the catch. He is somebody who could be an elite middle of the field type of route runner and I think he complements this achieving game as well. But I think the offensive line too, we saw Patrick Mahomes running for his life last year, running for his life even a little bit before on their journey to the super bowl once again. And you look at this team right now, if you tell me that Josh Simmons is good to go and it's all good and he's going to start for multiple years after this, then I tell you, like, okay, I can understand them waiting on offensive line to 29, you know, maybe a little bit later in the draft, but if there's any sort of up in the air at all with Josh Simmons, you got, you got Jalen Moore, who's only on a one year deal, starting at right tackle right now. I know they like asa pole, but I mean, you've got to consider an offensive tackle at number nine overall. I don't know if they're going to go that direction, but I think it's one of those wide receivers. And then as much as I feel like Chiefs fans have pushed back with this narrative, I think offensive line is going to firmly be in the conversation for them at number nine.

[Matt Castle]

You're just talking about some of these wide receivers. Jordan Tyson, Carnell Tate, obviously. But how about some of these guys like Omar Cooper Jr. Who performed really well at the combine at the time. His, his place speaks for itself on the field. You've got Makai Lemon, who you heard the rumors and all this stuff and speculation that he bombed his interviews and this, that and the other, but he's a hell of a player. And Denzel Boston, obviously larger in terms of his physicality, goes up, gets a contested balls. How about where you see some of these guys potentially going?

[Trevor Sikima]

Yeah, I think that Makai, who I really like in this draft, to be honest with you, I have a lot of conversations about people ask, hey, who's your wide receiver? One I think that Tyson, Tate and Lemon are so of receivers that if you wanted to argue all three of them is the best wide receiver in this draft, I could make a case for all three of them. So I don't think that Lemon's going to pick be picked as highly as Tyson and Tate, but I think that it's still going to be somewhere in that top 20. And then you get a little bit further than that. Yeah, I think Omar Cooper Jr. Could be somebody who gets picked in the top 20. It feels like his hype train is so far out of the station and it is full steam ahead. I mean, I, I've heard, you know, potentially 13 overall to the Los Angeles Rams for him. You know, you get to teams like the jets at 16, the Carolina Panthers at 19, like there's a lot of different destinations for Omar Cooper potentially in that top 20 and then outside of the top 20, I think that's when you start to get into some other names that you mentioned. Denzel Boston. Who. Man, I, I don't know if people just don't really like these bigger wide receivers or what, but I think he's so underrated right now. I think he's, I think he's got way more wiggle and flexibility than people are willing to admit.

[Lowe's Sponsor Voice]

It.

[Trevor Sikima]

Is the separation like it is for, you know, Makai Lemon or Omar Cooper Jr. No, but they're not the same type of receiver. You've got to be able to look at weight adjusted and size adjusted separation scores with these guys. And I feel like Denzel Boston is great for the caliber of size wide receiver that he is. You can move him inside, he can play those big slot roles. He's good at eating up cushion with, you know, whether it's nickel defenders or safeties, whoever he gets matched up against in the slot, he's a great red zone threat as well. So I'm a big fan of Denzel Boston. It feels like you see him in some Mocks and for some fans, he's sort of slipping into the second round. I don't see that at all. And then the last guy that I'll shout out is Casey Concepcion, somebody who, I'll be honest, guys, I didn't like Casey Concepcion coming into this college football season. I, I watched his tape for summer scouting when he was at NC State and I was like, ah, this is a gadget player.

[Matt Castle]

He can fly.

[Trevor Sikima]

I know, I know, but they're like getting the ball in his hands in a bunch of weird ways. Like he's doing the wildcat thing and they got him at running back and I'm like, all right. I mean, how much of this is translatable to the NFL? But he goes to Texas A and M and they use him so much more as a real receiver. I'll say they used him in the slot, but they use him as a Z on the outside as well. I mean, he can cook guys with good releases and good vertical speed off the line of scrimmage. And so like you said, he can fly. And I think that because of that he should be in that first round consideration as well.

[Bobby Bones]

Who are the players with weird body parts? You know, height, arms, hands. You know, I know one specifically you probably mentioned, but who, who are these players that have everything but there's just a body part off?

[Trevor Sikima]

Interesting. I, I, I, when you, so when you, when you said that, I mean, the, my mind immediately went to like somebody else and that was somebody in the opposite direction. And that is Markel Bell, the offensive tackle from Miami. Basically 99th percentile in every way possible. So like he's somebody that stands out when it comes to the measurables in a crazy way there. But I mean, you look at some of these players, you know, for example, I think that people talk about Ruben Bane, the arm length with Ruben Bane, you know, right atop top 10, top 5 overall potential player. But he's got the arm length that you kind of worry about with him. I think that somebody else that you look at, I think Peter woods as well. I mean, Peter woods was somebody who I felt like he's got all this great athletic ability, but the measurables just aren't quite there for him. The height, the overall weight, the arm length, it just was not there for him the way that I wanted it to be. So, you know, he's one of them. Cassius how I think is somebody that also comes to my mind because, because I like Cassius how A lot. The edge rusher out of Texas A and M. Elite passers grade over the last three years from pro football focuses system. He has a above 20% passers win percentage, but he has outlier arm length. Like not just short arms, like zero if percentile arm length. Like there's not anybody in the NFL at his position that has as short of arms as he does. So those are a couple of players that come to my mind where it's like, man, I think you're a good football player, but there's just some measurable concerns there. When you talk about projecting them to have that same similar success in the NFL.

[Matt Castle]

Talk to me about the Los Angeles Rams, what you think that the direction that they may go, because obviously they address the secondary in the off season. They went out and got their guys there. They're maybe a play away from going to the super bowl, playing in the super bowl this year. So what do you think is a need for them? Because obviously they've got the skills on the outside there on the offensive side of the ball. Stafford's coming back. They don't have a lot of holes on either side of the ball.

[Trevor Sikima]

Yeah, I mean, I thought they were the second best team in the NFL last year. I felt like that NFC Championship game was genuinely the super bowl between the two best teams. And going into this season, I think they should be super bowl favorites because of the roster that they have and how well rounded that is. Because of that, you know, I would do early mock drafts for the Rams and at that 13 pick I'd go, okay, well, offensive line, sort of a long term need for them. Maybe they go offensive line there. But, but the more I think about it, the more I think that Sean McVeigh and Les need realize where they are in the power rankings. They realize how good this team is. Forget the future, right. Like go win a Super Bowl. And I think that's the way that they're going to approach this. And because of that, I wouldn't even be shocked if they traded up from 13 now. I don't know exactly where it would be. You know, you talk about the Cardinals, that's an in division type of a team and that makes it less likely for that to be the case. But I think there's a world where the Rams are maybe sitting there at 13 and, and let's say, you know, the Washington Commanders maybe come on the board and they go, hey, we'll give you 13, we'll give you 61 in the second round. Let's move up to seven. Let's get ahead of the New Orleans Saints. And the Kansas City Chiefs and let's go draft Carnell Tate or Jordan Tyson. Like, let's keep our foot on the gas pedal. Go get a playmaker like that. I think that with the Trey McDuffie edition, they're probably good in the secondary. You look at linebacker, maybe, I think if. I don't think linebacker is going to be their pick at 13, but, but you get towards that 61 overall in the back of the second round, I think linebacker kind of comes into play there. Or maybe they're just going to look at the defensive line and say, hey, let's get more waves of pass rushers. We don't want one injury or two injuries to derail what could be a Super bowl season for us. Let's continue to invest in those premium positions. But I think no matter what it is, the Rams are going to be aggressive because I just think that this is an organization that very much recognizes when you're in a winning window, when you have everything in front of you in a legitimate way. And they're going to be a team that's going to continue to add talent in the short term to make them better in 2026.

[Bobby Bones]

I've got two final questions. I'll go first. The last couple years, we, we saw Pinnocks hop up. We saw Jameer Gibbs hop up a little higher than people thought. If you were just going to, you know, make a prediction on that player that does pop up in the draft a little higher than people are right now. Assuming. Who do you put that on?

[Trevor Sikima]

I think Jacob Rodriguez could be that player, the linebacker from Texas Tech. I mean, you look at the overall production that he. Over the last two years, but specifically this past year, I remember, I think this is week five, maybe the college football season, and I'm watching a Texas Tech game. I can't remember who they were playing. And the announcer goes, texas Tech Red Raiders linebacker Jacob Rodriguez in the Heisman conversation. I'm like, get out of here. What are you talking about, a linebacker in the Heisman conversation? Like, that's, that's, that's, that's ludicrous. And then the rest of the season went on and he continued to produce. I went, okay, yeah, that guy might have known Ball. Actually, I think that he probably got that one right there with Jacob Rodriguez. A lot of people look at him and he's a little bit smaller of size. He's not the strongest linebacker in the world. And so they say, yeah, you know, he's going to be a second round pick. I'm not so sure about that. I think that this guy could absolutely be somewhere around the 20s, maybe even sneaking into the top 20 type of a player. So to me, he's the guy I look at, Jacob Rodriguez is that guy that I think go a lot higher than people are expecting.

[Matt Castle]

Trevor, I'm fascinated with your process and the amount of knowledge that, you know, I want to know what does your off season look like in your evaluation process? Is it some of it analytics, like you said? The pff, the statistical stuff. Watching film going and seeing these players. Talk to me a little bit about that because I'm just amazed about all the stuff that you're talking about right now.

[Trevor Sikima]

Yeah, so a lot of these GMs and these scouting staffs, they'll tell you like, you know, when they draft a player and they think they have a success, very successful draft weekend, they'll say, hey, this is kudos to a lot of the people who started this work, you know, over a year ago, and genuinely, like, that's our process here. I mean, I have players probably, you know, 40, 50 players that I scouted and did almost full profiles on that ended up going back to school. So I've already got a database of guys that have already gotten eyes on three weeks after this draft is over. So when we start diving into summer scouting tape and I take a look at who these guys were this past season, the guys that I didn't get a chance to watch, the guys that are their draft eligible for the first time. And so it really, it's laying the groundwork in summer scouting and understanding what a player was the year before, where they need to get better and then what they look like in their final year in college football before we're evaluating them as draft prospects and pros. And so a lot goes into that tape is king. Right. And so I watched the, the tape on these guys, but I think the analytics and where guys stand out here and there, you know, like, like passers win percentage or missed tackles, force per attempt for running back, contested catch percentages with wide receivers, separation percentile with tight ends, wide receivers, playmakers, things like that, you know, overall accuracy scores with different quarterbacks, you know, where they're targeting different parts of the field. You look at all those numbers and then you watch the film and you say, hey, does this reflect that kind of player? Do I think a little bit differently? And that's how you build that preliminary scouting report. So I'll normally get anywhere from 150 to 200 of those preliminary reports by the time. The end of August comes around and we start to really get to enjoy some new college football games. But to me, it's all about the process of watching how guys have grown in their two most recent years before they come become prospects. That helps me a lot get to know about where they came from and who they are now before they get to the NFL.

[Bobby Bones]

Everybody listening, Go over to NFL Stock Exchange, go to YouTube, watch it, subscribe, you do the bet, you're the best. I appreciate the time, Trevor, really do. So thank you. And you know, looking forward to see how this plays out.

[Trevor Sikima]

Yeah, I appreciate it guys. Anytime.

[Matt Castle]

All right, thanks Trevor. Trevor.

[Bobby Bones]

Second month.

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[Matt Castle]

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[Trevor Sikima]

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[Matt Castle]

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[Bobby Bones]

All right, one more thing each before we go. I see where Joe Buck is going to take over Jeopardy. As the. The.

[Matt Castle]

Is he really?

[Bobby Bones]

That's what I read. Will you fact check that? Make sure it wasn't A.I.

[Matt Castle]

yeah, I was going to say, why does Joe Buck need to do Jeopardy?

[Bobby Bones]

I think he's awesome for it.

[Matt Castle]

He is awesome, but he doesn't he do a million games in baseball and football.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. And he's one of the guys that would do two games. Very Herb Streetish.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

ESPN Jeopardy.

[Bobby Bones]

So it's only Sports Jeopardy. So they're. They're branching out. I. I just saw Joe Buck take Jeopardy.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

Yeah, it's his Jeopardy. Spinoff.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, that. I think Joe Buck's perfect for. For this. Anyway, um, I guess Ken Jennings isn't giving up his role as the real Jeopardy.

[Matt Castle]

No, Ken Jennings is good. He's really good.

[Bobby Bones]

Do you watch Jeopardy?

[Matt Castle]

Yes, I love Jeopardy. I. I turned it on with the kids the other Night. I actually were getting some. Right. Normally I'm Jeff. This 0 for 10 or whatever. I actually nailed it.

[Bobby Bones]

I was like, Jeopardy's doing, like, clothes are clothes now are making the sizes. Let's say even though you're getting fatter, they're keeping the sizes the same.

[Matt Castle]

You're getting fatter, but they're.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, they keep the sizes smaller. Like a 12 used to be a 14.

[Matt Castle]

Okay.

[Bobby Bones]

I wonder if Jeopardy's just making their questions easier.

[Matt Castle]

I hope not.

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

Yeah.

[Matt Castle]

You know, that would be the integrity of the show, isn't it? To go challenge smart people and what, their ability to remember anything.

[Bobby Bones]

So Joe Buck. Oh, that's cool. They're doing sports Jeopardy, though, huh?

[Patriots Fan / Guest]

Yeah, espn, like, doing a spin off, and they're gonna have celebrity participants.

[Bobby Bones]

Well, then I'm glad.

[Matt Castle]

Bobby's definitely gonna be one of the first ones on. It's.

[Bobby Bones]

It's. That's. That I. I would do it, but that's nothing. But I. That I can only lose if I do that, because I feel like I'm pretty good at trivia. I'm definitely not sharp right now, man. I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm could probably be as I ever was. Probably as good once, once. I could probably be as good once as I ever was, but, yeah, I would do that. I'm gonna go to Hell's Kitchen. It's not really a game, but I'm gonna go do that show Hell's Kitchen

[Matt Castle]

with a crazy chef. What's his name?

[Bobby Bones]

Gordon Ramsay.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Not a game. It's just a TV show where I'm gonna go sit and eat.

[Matt Castle]

I've done that before.

[Bobby Bones]

You've been the celebrity eater?

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. No. Yes, I've been the celebrity eater. To go onto his show when I was right after the Patriots season. He's been on forever, and we go to this random place that they turned into a Hell's Kitchen.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Matt Castle]

You know, set up. You sit there. I've got my wife with me, and you're watching him run around. He's got his earpiece in and. Yes, Jeff. Yes, Chef. All these people are going crazy. But you'd see one person mess up over here. He's on the opposite side. One of his producers in there. Hey, so and so. Just totally messed up on this. This dish or this and the other. And immediately he goes over and just massacres these people.

[Bobby Bones]

What did you do? Did you eat and then give a review of the food?

[Matt Castle]

Just. Yeah, just sat down, ate, gave a little review. This, that, and the other.

[Trevor Sikima]

Oh, it's delicious. Delicious.

[Matt Castle]

It was food. It's really good. You know, Gordon Ramsay's outstanding chef, but he was.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, that's kind of his thing, though, right?

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, that's what he sells, like, hardcore. Trying to make people cry in the kitchen.

[Bobby Bones]

I look you. I can maybe be mentored on how to be a good celebrity eater.

[Trevor Sikima]

On.

[Matt Castle]

Sit there. That was such a delicious bite. The texture. The texture and the sauce. It came together. It really was amazing.

[Bobby Bones]

2010.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, 2010.

[Bobby Bones]

There you go.

[Matt Castle]

See? So you're late to this game. You might be first in ownership for an MLB game, but I don't claim

[Bobby Bones]

to be anything but late. I just literally got the invite, and they were like, hey, come up and be the celebrity eater on Hell's Kitchen. And I was like, all right, yeah, go do it.

[Matt Castle]

Where's it at?

[Bobby Bones]

This one's in Connecticut.

[Matt Castle]

Oh, wow. Travel for it. I was actually in LA when they did it, so I was there in the off season, so I just. Quick drive for me.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, we're gonna go up, and I'm gonna do a half day there, and then we're gonna go to New York, and I've got a bunch of interviews for my Netflix show, so we're gonna make a whole thing out of it.

[Matt Castle]

Love that for you.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, thanks. All right, what do you got? And just with something good.

[Matt Castle]

All right, well, I've got a few things. I mean, 49ers, they resigned Trent Williams to two year, $50 million extension.

[Bobby Bones]

Deserves it.

[Matt Castle]

He deserves every dollar he makes. He is a shutdown left tackle, perennial all pro. I mean, just a savage out there. And sets the tone for the team. So that's it. That's awesome that they're bringing him back, but they had major signings this off season. I mean, Mike Evans, Christian Kirk.

[Bobby Bones]

I forgot about that. Happened like such a. I forget about Mike Evans going. The 49ers.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. So they. They made some moves this off season, but that was critical. Just. He's the centerpiece of that offensive line, and he's also the heartbeat of that team, in my belief. Him and Fred Warner. So bringing him back, that's. That's a great move for the 49ers.

[Bobby Bones]

I guess next week we'll have the results of the draft, huh? That'll be fun. See who ended up where.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, it's always fun because, you know, going into these things, you got every single mock draft up there, and you can maybe anticipate one, maybe two guys at two, but then you just have no idea what Direction these, these teams are going to go.

[Bobby Bones]

I predict Cowboys will package up into that third or fourth spot. And with that pick, they'll draft Diego Pavia. That's my prediction. Jerry Jones looking to make a statement

[Matt Castle]

where I wonder if somebody's going to take a shot on him late. And I mean, even who knows how they look at him as a pro prospect. But, like, when you watch him play, he plays at a really high level, but I just don't know if he's

[Bobby Bones]

got the type of physical free agent.

[Matt Castle]

Did you watch any of Wrestlemania?

[Bobby Bones]

Did I watch it? I watched every match.

[Matt Castle]

Did you watch every match? I was gonna say we had games during the day. We weren't able. But my son is a huge WWE fan, like, loves it. My son Clay, he literally picks up like these huge bears and doing wrestling moves, finishing moves, all that stuff.

[Bobby Bones]

I do the same thing.

[Matt Castle]

I'm very much. I'm in. But you've got the dummy, like the actual one. But we got to see Randy Orton and Cody Rhodes. Great match. Was that real blood, you think?

[Trevor Sikima]

Yes.

[Matt Castle]

Randy Orton's was?

[Bobby Bones]

Yes.

[Matt Castle]

Do you think the thing at the end on Cody Rhodes head?

[Trevor Sikima]

Yes.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

I think with Cody Rhodes and his hair being dyed blonde, I think the blood really shows.

[Matt Castle]

It looks so good.

[Bobby Bones]

Randy orton also is 46 years old.

[Matt Castle]

I know he looks old. He's so big.

[Bobby Bones]

His body does not look old.

[Matt Castle]

No, it doesn't. I don't know what type of peptide he's on. I would love to be on that.

[Bobby Bones]

There's no fat.

[Trevor Sikima]

It's all abs.

[Bobby Bones]

Humongous. Shredded 46 is crazy. Okay, give me some more analysis. I like this.

[Matt Castle]

No, I. I thought it was, you know, the spectacle of it all, it blows my mind. Like the production that they put on for every character coming in, the music, the stage character. Well, what do you think it is? Is that his real name on his birth certificate? No, it was a name that they gave him.

[Bobby Bones]

I'm just saying there's a difference in a real fan and then somebody who, like, looks at that.

[Matt Castle]

Okay.

[Bobby Bones]

We don't call them characters.

[Matt Castle]

What do you call them?

[Bobby Bones]

What do you mean?

[Matt Castle]

His wrestler? His competitor. Competitor.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay, wrestler.

[Matt Castle]

That's what I meant. Okay. But I figured that they take on a character.

[Bobby Bones]

Well, they do.

[Matt Castle]

We have interviewed people from the wwe.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Matt Castle]

That came on and said, my real name's this off the field, am I a character?

[Bobby Bones]

Because my real name's not Bones. But am I a character? No.

[Matt Castle]

But did you change it to Bobby Bones?

[Bobby Bones]

Yes.

[Matt Castle]

Okay. That's your real Name, Right. So am I a character?

[Bobby Bones]

Am I playing a character?

[Matt Castle]

Sometimes.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay, fair enough.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, sometimes we all do. And then the Roman Reigns, CM Punk, awesome match. Did you see the. They described them as. They were little people, but they described them as something else. Coming in right before that. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

So that was Danhausen.

[Matt Castle]

Danhausen, yeah, that's before that match. So incredible wrestler, not a character.

[Bobby Bones]

Curses. Danhausen's a character.

[Matt Castle]

Oh, okay. Now we've got characters.

[Trevor Sikima]

And now.

[Matt Castle]

So there's a fine line in the

[Bobby Bones]

sand because he comes out and he puts curses on people. And his is very comedic. He's also a good wrestler, but he goes, you are cursed. And he curses them. I think that, that CM Punk and Roman Reigns match, the match itself was freaking fantastic. I thought overall it was a pretty weak Wrestlemania, but. But I thought that final match was so good by both of them. So annoying that Roman Reigns is the champ again. Boring.

[Matt Castle]

You want CM Punk to be that? I just.

[Bobby Bones]

Roman Reigns being the champ again. Boring. He's been champ, but he's seven time champ now.

[Matt Castle]

Look at him, though.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, I agree.

[Matt Castle]

I mean, he's a monster. Because you got to take a little bit of reality into this thing and say, okay, if these two guys were to line up in a regular ring and beat the hell out of each other, I'm. I'm putting my money on Roman Reigns.

[Bobby Bones]

Did you watch Brock Lesnar?

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. That was a short match, though.

[Bobby Bones]

Well, they're massive guys. They don't go long if they're that big.

[Matt Castle]

It was six minutes.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Matt Castle]

Of these, like the other match went what, 20, 25 minutes?

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, but those guys, again, better cardio. Not near as. Not near as large.

[Matt Castle]

Who's the guy that beat him?

[Bobby Bones]

But BROCK Lesnar is 48.

[Matt Castle]

He looks awesome. He is maybe the most intimidating human that you'll run into, other than the guy that he wrestled, maybe.

[Bobby Bones]

So Obafemi is his name.

[Matt Castle]

Oh, my God.

[Bobby Bones]

And he was a track star in Alabama. Like shot put.

[Matt Castle]

Oh, I was going to say he didn't run the 100.

[Bobby Bones]

He didn't run the 100. But his physique is incredible.

[Mike Vrabel (clip)]

Right?

[Matt Castle]

Oh, my God.

[Bobby Bones]

And so Brock put him.

[Matt Castle]

She's a specimen.

[Bobby Bones]

And putting someone over means you want them to shine so they can be like, be the next one up. And that's what Brock did. He put him over.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. Then he took off his wrestling shoes at the end. Did he? Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Finger quotes. I don't think he'll show up at the next big event, so I'll nerd a little bit on you. The next event, I believe, is SummerSlam, and it's in Minneapolis, and that's his hometown. So what people are expecting. Well, no, we're going to say what people are suspecting is they think that'll be Brock's final match. Yeah, that'll show up in his hometown. But no, as far as we know, he put his boots in the ring and was like, I'm out.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, just selling the next event, babe.

[Bobby Bones]

I did watch both nights at WrestleMania, though. I stayed pretty dialed in. And if you don't. So you have to have ESPN Unlimited. Do you have that?

[Matt Castle]

Well, I figured that out on Saturday when my son's like, yeah, please go get it. And then I went through and updated this, that and the other. ESPN Unlimited is now part of my

[Bobby Bones]

service package because I already had ESPN+100. So I bought ESPN Unlimited.

[Matt Castle]

And then you probably have the bundle, right?

[Trevor Sikima]

Yeah, but unlimited wasn't a part of it.

[Matt Castle]

And that's not.

[Bobby Bones]

I know.

[Matt Castle]

It's a whole new thing.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay. Thanks to Charvis Sikoma. That's Matt Castle. That's Kickoff. Kevin. That's Brandon Ray. I'm Bobby Bones. We've had lots to say. We will see you guys next week. Bye, everybody. Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle is a production of the NFL and iHeart Podcast. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Trevor Sikima]

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[Karissa Thompson]

This is an Iheart Podcast. Guaranteed human.