Lots to Say: Super Bowl Odds and SB Champion Vernon Davis

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Bobby Bones Show – "Lots to Say: Super Bowl Odds and SB Champion Vernon Davis"

Date: November 12, 2025
Host: Bobby Bones
Co-host: Matt Castle
Guest: Vernon Davis

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Overview

In this episode of "The Bobby Bones Show," Bobby and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle discuss the latest NFL headlines, Super Bowl odds, compelling storylines from recent games, and their experiences with injuries. The episode features a lively and candid interview with Super Bowl champion and former Pro Bowl tight end Vernon Davis, who talks about his athletic journey, transition to life after football, and the launch of his new podcast, "The Next Role." The hosts blend football analysis with light-hearted banter, personal stories, and unique insights from their careers.

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Main Segments & Topics

1. Life and Injuries: Athlete Real Talk

• [02:32-08:31]
  • Bobby shares his ongoing recovery from recent ankle surgery and the impact on his daily routine.
  • Matt reflects on his own experiences playing through painful foot and hand injuries.
  • Bobby and Matt debate the intricacies of pain management, resilience, and the ways athletes cope.
  • Discussion shifts to coffee preferences, with Matt famously using cayenne pepper and salt in his black coffee for "blood circulation."
    • Notable Quote (Cultural, Fun):
      • “If it has caffeine in it, I’m in.” – Matt Castle [07:55]
      • “You’re out of your mind.” – Bobby Bones [08:38]

2. Football Technique & the QB-Receiver Relationship

• [09:08-17:13]
  • Candid insight into the difficulties for quarterbacks when teammates don't follow routes as expected.
  • The challenges of throwing and catching during poor weather.
  • The importance of route depth and quarterback-to-receiver chemistry.
  • Handling blown plays, leadership, and accountability in the huddle.
    • Notable Quote:
      • “If you get your hands on it, that’s on you. But let’s be honest… when you go to the press conference, you have to say, ‘That was on me.’” – Matt Castle [12:58]

3. Breaking NFL News: Coaches & Team Dynamics

• [17:24-24:09]

  • Reaction to Brian Daboll’s firing as Giants Head Coach.

  • Dissection of the Giants’ organizational instability and the challenges of coaching in high-pressure markets.

    • Notable Quotes:
      • “It’s a result-oriented business.” – Matt Castle [17:38]
      • “There’s a reason the Giants haven’t won in 100 years…it’s not the coach.” – Bobby Bones [21:58]

  • Debates about replacement candidates: Mike McCarthy, Clint Kubiak, Robert Saleh, and Lane Kiffin.

  • Commentary on media pressure and ownership meddling in both New York NFL teams.

4. Around the NFL: Quarterback Comebacks & Super Bowl Odds

• [27:38-36:36]
  • Joe Burrow’s return to Bengals practice stirs hope for a playoff push.
  • The resilience of teams like the Lions (Dan Campbell’s play calling), and discussion of which teams pose real Super Bowl threats.
  • Top 10 Super Bowl favorites and skepticism over team rankings.
    • Super Bowl Odds Discussion [31:00-36:36]:
      • Lions (+750) are the third favorite.
      • Chiefs are the betting favorite despite uncertain playoff position.
      • The legitimacy of teams’ records versus their on-field quality.

5. Gronkowski’s Legacy & NFL Culture

• [37:14-38:36]
  • Gronkowski signs symbolic contract to retire as a Patriot.
  • Debate: Is Gronk the greatest tight end ever?
    • “Ungardable…He could do things in both the pass and run game we’ve never seen.” – Matt Castle [37:54]

6. College Football Drama: Brian Kelly’s Buyout Battle with LSU

• [39:07-41:14]
  • The hosts poke fun at LSU’s handling of Brian Kelly’s buyout and contract drama.
  • Bobby admits to rooting for Kelly in the lawsuit, despite previously disliking him.

7. NFL Week 11: Game Previews & Picks (Presented by DraftKings)

• [47:07-51:23]
  • Picks and analysis for three of Week 11’s biggest matchups:
    • Bucs at Bills
    • Seahawks at Rams
    • Chiefs at Broncos
  • Discussion includes team motivations, market bias, and the impact of weather and location.
    • Notable Quote:
      • “Chiefs won’t… I don’t think the Chiefs lose for, like, three years. That’s my prediction.” – Bobby Bones [50:51]

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Featured Interview: Vernon Davis

Transition, New Projects, and Athletic Legacy

• [52:18-71:44]
  • Vernon Davis discusses his shift to acting, producing, and podcasting after a decorated NFL career.
    • “My next role is film and television…just being, just doing things that bring me joy.” – Vernon Davis [52:48]
  • Launching "The Next Role" podcast: Balancing hands-on involvement with creativity.
  • High school & college days: Competing with players like Kevin Durant, playing multiple sports, and the value of multi-sport athletes.
    • “I believe being a great locker room guy is very important. That dictates whether a guy plays three years or fifteen.” – Vernon Davis [59:12]
  • Draft & NFL journey: The mindset at the NFL Combine and “being the best at everything I compete in.”
    • “You only get one shot. Do not miss your chance…that song by Eminem, I would listen to all the time.” [56:41]

Evolution as a Player

• Admits to early career immaturity and credits Mike Singletary’s tough-love coaching for helping him grow as a leader and teammate.
• Playing with both Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick:
  • Alex Smith: Resilient, favorite QB to work with.
  • Colin Kaepernick: Unique skills, different offensive style.

49ers Success and Super Bowl Experience

• Recounts the culture shift under Jim Harbaugh and NFC Championship runs.
• Describes his iconic "catch" in the 49ers-Saints playoff game—“the first time I felt like I was unstoppable.” [65:33]
• Reflects on trade to the Broncos and teaming up with Peyton Manning.
  • "Winning a Super Bowl with Denver, you could just feel the energy. It was a special thing we had going on." [68:03]
• Decision to retire: "This game is 90% mental...I knew it was time to let the game go.” [70:34]

Lighthearted Moments

• On Dancing with the Stars:
  • “That was the hardest thing I ever had to do in my life, I’m not gonna lie…” [66:03]
  • Bobby and Vernon swap stories about the challenges of dancing and sustaining injuries on the show.
  • Bobby shows off his “Dancing with the Stars” trophy: “This is the one athletic thing that I probably have a trophy that you don’t!” [67:05]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Pain Management and Playing Hurt:

  • “There’s nothing worse than foot and hand injuries because it just throbs.” – Matt Castle [06:27]
  • “I’m grateful it doesn’t hurt worse, but… it just doesn’t go away.” – Bobby Bones [03:46]

• NFL Culture & Leadership:

  • “If you take ownership in your failures... they respect that.” – Matt Castle [13:06]
  • “Being a great locker room guy…dictates whether the guy’s playing three years or 15 years.” – Vernon Davis [59:12]

• Coaching Carousel & Market Perceptions:

  • “There’s a reason the Giants haven’t won in 100 years… there’s a reason the Jets haven’t won in 100 years... it’s not the coach.” – Bobby Bones [21:58]

• Legacy and Retirement:

  • “When that feeling came over me, I knew it was time to let the game go.” – Vernon Davis [70:34]

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Listener Takeaways

• Personal Glimpse: The episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at the physical and mental challenges NFL athletes face, on and off the field.
• NFL News and Context: Provides accessible, in-depth analysis of current league happenings, from coaching firings to playoff (and Super Bowl) odds.
• Vernon Davis’s Perspective: Davis’s deep introspection reveals what it takes to be successful in football and life, the importance of mindset, and embracing new passions after a pro sports career.
• Entertainment Value: The easy chemistry between Bobby and Matt, their candid admissions, and the playful moments (from coffee rituals to dance injuries) keep the tone engaging and relatable.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Injury Talk / Pain Management: 02:32–08:31
• Quarterback-Receiver Insight: 09:08–17:13
• Daboll Firing & Coaching Odds: 17:24–24:09
• Super Bowl Odds & Team Rankings: 31:00–36:36
• Gronkowski Legacy Segment: 37:14–38:36
• College Football Drama: 39:07–41:14
• NFL Week 11 Preview: 47:07–51:23
• Vernon Davis Interview: 52:18–71:44

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Conclusion

A must-listen for NFL fans seeking an episode that blends sharp football insight, personal stories, and candid conversation. Vernon Davis’s interview is a career-spanning highlight—covering pressure, success, transition, and wisdom worth hearing for fans and aspiring athletes alike.

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Transcript

[Bobby Bones]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Bobby Bones]

Yes, that.

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An afternoon stroll? Sorry, no. A burrito bowl? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine?

[Matt Castle]

No.

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[Bobby Bones]

Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle is a production of the NFL and iHeart podcasts.

[Lowe's Ad Voice]

We got lots to say. We got lots to say.

[Matt Castle]

We're glad you're here and hope you stay.

[Bobby Bones]

Cause we got lots to say.

[Lowe's Ad Voice]

Yeah, we got lots to say.

[Bobby Bones]

Now here's Bobby and Matt. Hey, what's happening everybody? Vernon Davis coming up in just a little bit. I will say that whenever you saw my foot, I'm in a cast right now. I had ankle surgery and Castle did the most athlete thing ever. He comes up and looks in and sees My toes and goes. He goes, you're doing okay. You're doing okay. Those aren't that hilarious.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. I've had a foot injury before, and I know that those things can get black and blue and swollen. I just remember my toes being three times the size they should. I'm like, oh, they look all right. They're not all gangrene and, like, peeling. Mine was, like, peeling off. How you feeling, by the way? What a gamer you are?

[Bobby Bones]

I'm good. The pain medicine messes me up.

[Matt Castle]

Oh, I'm sure.

[Bobby Bones]

So I only take it right before I go to bed, which means I wake up and do the morning show. And I'm out of what feels like the first half of the morning show. But then as the pain starts to set back in, I get kind of my bearings. Thinking and talking. But then the pain is setting in. So it's very much a give take. But I'm fine. I just thought it was hilarious because everybody else who's seen I have a massive cast on my foot, they've been like, oh, how's it going? And you walk in and go, let me see your toes.

[Matt Castle]

Let me see your toes, buddy.

[Bobby Bones]

And you're like, all right, but you're good. You're good, big boy.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, they look pretty good. It looks pretty good. So the pain's been pretty substantial.

[Bobby Bones]

No, it's just constant.

[Matt Castle]

You just have no blood flow down to that area.

[Bobby Bones]

I actually am very grateful that it doesn't hurt worse. But it's like, you know when you have a toothache or an earache and it. It's not that it has to be killing you.

[Matt Castle]

No, it just doesn't go away.

[Liberty Mutual Ad Voice]

It just doesn't.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, it doesn't go away, but I'm good. Yeah. You've had to actually play with injuries. Me, I'm playing. But I'm talking, like, if you have a foot injury or a hand injury, that's gotta be the worst as a quarterback, right?

[Matt Castle]

Oh, it's the worst. I mean, I've. I had two hand surgeries and one. Both of them put me on IR for a little bit. Actually, the first one did. Cause I spiral fractured my. I don't know what bone this is, but I still have screws in there. You can kind of see them come up right there.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, you can? Yeah.

[Matt Castle]

So I get back in the huddle, and my finger is literally stuck behind my middle finger. So it was on a third down, get tackled by Dorville from Denver, But I just landed funny and I got up and my finger Was stuck. And I was like, all right, it's fourth down. We're going to go for it. It's later in the game, so we should go for it. I get the ball, and I can't move my index finger, which is the most important finger on the ball. And we run like, these crossing routes, thinking it's going to be, man, of course they go zone. So I scramble up. I don't get the first down. Everybody's yelling at me on the side, just throw the ball. I was like, there was nobody open. Number one, number two. I don't know where the ball would have gone if I tried to throw. So I get over the sideline. I get over the sideline. I tell Brody cryo. I'm like, hey, bud, will you get. Get the doc? So he goes. Gets him. And he goes, what's going on? I was like, well, my finger won't move, and I can't seem to separate it. He's like, well, where's it hurt? I was like, right here. And he starts going. I was like, yeah, it hurts a little bit. And he goes, well, can you throw? I was like, no, I wouldn't have got you over here if I could throw the ball. He's like, let's go in and score. Spiral fracture. The other one was I hit a helmet, dislocated my thumb. They had to go put it back into place and put pins in there for nine weeks. But that was at least before season. It just. You never got the full strength back because even doing this early on was brutal.

[Bobby Bones]

I feel like that hitting the helmet when throwing for a quarterback is like the most unfortunate injury.

[Matt Castle]

Oh, yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Because there's really not a lot you can do. It just kind of accidentally happens.

[Matt Castle]

It accidentally happens, and I've done it. I've have stitches on three different knuckles here just from hitting a helmet. Luckily, I didn't break anything. But there's just one time. We were actually in spring ball. We're in shells. Terrell Casey's rushing, Taylor Lawan and gets pushed back in my lap. I throw the ball and just hit the top of his helmet. And immediately this thing pops out of joint.

[Bobby Bones]

And you knew right then immediately, because.

[Matt Castle]

I looked at my thumb, I go, that's not good. And you're kind of in shock a little bit. And they said, do you want us to pop it? I was like, no, not yet. I want to go to the hospital, get some medicine and numb it up. And so went in and they popped it back in. But they obviously, because it tears out all the. I don't know if it's cartilage ligament, whatever it is. And so they had to go up to pin it. And that was. That was wonderful.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, it sucks.

[Matt Castle]

It sucks, dude. And. And there's nothing worse than foot and hand injuries because it just throbs.

[Bobby Bones]

That's what. That's what I'm dealing with now. Just constant throbbing.

[Matt Castle]

Do you have any ice machine or anything that you get to. Get to wrap that bad boy up in?

[Bobby Bones]

So I. I can't put ice on it. So what the doctor has me doing is putting ice, like, on my knee as close to it as possible.

[Matt Castle]

Never heard of that before.

[Bobby Bones]

Me either.

[Matt Castle]

At least your knees not going to be swollen.

[Bobby Bones]

It's not.

[Matt Castle]

Everything else is wrapped up. It looks like it is in a parka here.

[Bobby Bones]

I feel like I'm good. I'm just dealing with it. I just thought I would be better by now. Even though we're three days out of it, four days out of it, I really thought I'd be back on my feet by now.

[Matt Castle]

Really? What was the expectation going in?

[Bobby Bones]

The expectation was the doctor said you'll spend about a week and a half in a hard cast, and then if you have moved past that, we'll put you in a walking boot. And I know we're four days in, but I'm usually ahead of the curve.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, because you're a healer.

[Bobby Bones]

So I just thought. Yes, I just thought I would be there.

[Matt Castle]

You're just. You're ready to get back out there and you're not.

[Bobby Bones]

I'm drinking a.

[Matt Castle]

A little drink here. I saw that.

[Bobby Bones]

I don't drink coffee.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. What is that?

[Bobby Bones]

But what I have to do is stay awake because my sleep schedule is so jacked up from this injury, and I'm taking pain medicine to go to sleep. If I fall asleep and take a nap in the middle of the day.

[Matt Castle]

You'Re done for it?

[Bobby Bones]

I'm done.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

I'm taking pain medicine, then I'm awake on pain medicine. So this is some sort of espresso shot. It's like the most European feminine coffee drink you can have.

[Matt Castle]

If it has caffeine in it, I'm in.

[Bobby Bones]

So this is what I'm having. It's like a cinnamon tonic espresso. Okay.

[Matt Castle]

That's not what I expected. I thought you meant, like, it was an espresso shot. No, it's a cinnamon.

[Vernon Davis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Castle]

Elderberry.

[Bobby Bones]

Absolutely elderberry.

[Matt Castle]

Flour in it.

[Bobby Bones]

I've taken everything masculine out of it and tried to water it. Down. And I don't.

[Matt Castle]

I don't.

[Bobby Bones]

I don't drink coffee. Like, I've never. I never even tasted coffee until like.

[Matt Castle]

Five or six years ago. Like five hours ago when you made that.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, it's tough. I ordered this.

[Matt Castle]

Oh, did you?

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Castle]

They actually serve it in that cup?

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, in this little feminine cup. And I drink it with my pinky up like this.

[Matt Castle]

Yep, you sure do.

[Bobby Bones]

What is your coffee drink in the morning?

[Matt Castle]

I usually am a black coffee guy. And I'll put cayenne pepper in it and a dab of salt.

[Bobby Bones]

You're out of your mind.

[Matt Castle]

You're lying. Swear to God.

[Bobby Bones]

That's like what you say if you want to have the most masculine drink ever.

[Matt Castle]

No, I do that because they say it helps with blood circulation.

[Bobby Bones]

Wait, so tell me about your drink again. It's black coffee.

[Matt Castle]

Black coffee. And then I put cayenne pepper in it. A dab of cayenne. Cayenne pepper and a little salt to kill the acidity. And then drink that bad boy down and probably we'll have two of them.

[Bobby Bones]

Doesn't that seem like what you would say if you were trying to prove a point by having the most masculine coffee ever? Kevin? Absolutely. I've never even heard of it. I thought he was joking.

[Matt Castle]

You're welcome. You're welcome, you guys. All the benefits of cayenne pepper. There's a lot of it. It's all about blood circulation.

[Bobby Bones]

I believe you.

[Matt Castle]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

I thought you were just.

[Matt Castle]

No, I'm being dead serious.

[Bobby Bones]

There's a TikTok I saw yesterday with these guys going to a coffee shop, and it's two, like, big, bearded, masculine men. And they go into like, we'll take two of your blackest coffees. And she's like, okay. And they say this out loud and they hand her a note. And on the note it's like, 11 things to add.

[Matt Castle]

Squirt of vanilla.

[Bobby Bones]

They're like, please keep us quiet. I thought it was pretty funny.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, it was pretty funny. The other day I get a text message from my brother in law. It's my wife's brother, obviously, brother in law. And he goes, hey, Cass, who do you think could throw better? Spiral, Bobby or me? And it was the most random text he must have seen when we were going through the other video of us going through our grips. And I was like, I've seen you throw a football. And there has not been one point in all the years that we've gone out and thrown the football because he used to catch routes for me in the off season, like, I used to bring friends out that I've ever seen you throw a consistent spiral. So I'm gonna go with Bobby, even though I haven't seen him throw. And I've also seen his grip, which looks like a pretty fair grip. So I'm gonna go with Bobby. He's like, dude, I've been in the backyard ripping it with. He's like, I've been in the backyard ripping. You wouldn't even believe what I've got going on right now. And I started laughing. I go, dude, nerf footballs don't count. So I definitely. I went with you after the grip discussion for sure.

[Bobby Bones]

I don't even feel like you picked me because of anything I did. I feel like you just didn't pick him because you played with him.

[Matt Castle]

No, I've actually seen him throw a football. And so the kid, it was phenomenal. Four year star at USC as a setter on the volleyball team. But when you give him a football in his hand, I mean, he just can't turn that ball over to save his life.

[Bobby Bones]

Could he catch?

[Matt Castle]

He could catch, but early on I would throw some. I had to have him throw, like run a slant and I'd throw it to him and he. He'd take it right off the chest.

[Bobby Bones]

Body, shot it. Yeah.

[Matt Castle]

And he was one of those guys that was always really fit. So he'd run routes without his shirt on. Just red marks all over, all over himself. But I appreciated it.

[Bobby Bones]

One of the games this weekend, and you say that there was a game where it was very rainy. I didn't put this in my notes. Was the jets game super rainy? There was a, A body pass. The guy tried to get off his body and he ended up dropping the ball because it was raining so hard.

[Matt Castle]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

Was there. Was that ever like an unspoken with your tight ends or wide receivers? Like, try to keep it near my body if it's raining so I can use my body to catch it.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. A lot of times those guys are not as confident, obviously, with hands catching the conditions. And that might have been Chicago. Right? Was that Chicago and the Jets.

[Bobby Bones]

I don't know if that was the game where it rained. New England was raining in the beginning. Yeah, there was even the game, the. Was the commanders. Was that game raining? It doesn't matter. The weather has sucked everywhere because it's.

[Matt Castle]

Been cold and wet.

[Bobby Bones]

But I wonder if that's ever like a mindset with the quarterback too. Like they're going to have to start catching with their body More because it's raining.

[Matt Castle]

You absolutely want to try to put it on their body, because a lot of times that's the one time that it's acceptable to try to catch it against your body, because the ball will just go through your hands in certain type of conditions, when it's slippery, when it's wet. And a lot of those guys will. Will take off those gloves.

[Bobby Bones]

And that's what happened here, right?

[Matt Castle]

Because the gloves, they're meant to be in warm weather, or at least not that type of condition, because otherwise they get super slick. So they might keep it on for a second, and then they'll see them drop a ball, then they'll take them off and it'll be like, well, we told you not to wear gloves. But they're not used to doing it because they usually play with gloves all the time. But that was a big, big thing. And then also just throws over the middle. You wanted to keep it underneath their face mask, especially for backs and tight ends, because a lot of times those guys have bigger pads. So you run the risk of when you throw it high, even a little bit above their head, that that ball is going to go through their head and they can't get their hands up to get it. And that's when tips happen in interceptions. So we constantly talked about that, especially bad weather situations.

[Bobby Bones]

Would there ever be a time where if you let a receiver a little too much or a little too high, they would come back and you would apologize, like, shouldn't have done that?

[Matt Castle]

No, I say, you should have caught that ball. Like, what the hell are we doing? Like, that was in the realm. Like, if you get your hands on it, that's on you. But let's be honest. And then when you go to the press conference and you're like, yeah, the ball was. It got tipped in. Interception. Yeah, that was on me. I got to do a better job. No, I would. I would always try. I always played the card with my guys, try to be as fair as possible. I would get on them about depth of their route, coming out of their route on certain stuff, and I'd try to get on them on that and hold them accountable. But when I messed up and I missed the throw, I was the first one to say, hey, that's on me. I'll get you a better ball. Because they respect that. Right. If you take ownership and your failures and because we're all going to make mistakes, especially physical mistakes, mental mistakes were the things that I. I couldn't handle because we know better. And that messes with the rhythm of the pass play and where you're supposed to be, the timing, everything else. But when you make a physical mistake, say you slip coming out of a route, look, that's going to happen. Or if I'm going to miss a throw every now and then or just throw an interception because I didn't see the defender and I'll take full responsibility for that.

[Bobby Bones]

What was it to you as a quarterback that you would get most irritated at? Like a little thing a receiver wouldn't do. Right. But it was like the thing that bothered you the most.

[Matt Castle]

There was probably. There's two things. If we had a conversion on a route. So a lot of times you talk about on the outside, sometimes you have a hitch that may convert verse roll coverage. So you're not going to still run that hitch because it's tight man coverage and we don't want to run. That's a verse off coverage. But sometimes these guys wouldn't be paying attention or wide receiver wouldn't pay attention. All of a sudden you get a bail technique. Well, you're still running that hitch and I'm thinking you're going to run the hitch because I see it and all of a sudden you are still running the go route. So conversion routes were one thing for me. And then I've always depth of target because we would just over and over meticulously go through the depth of a route. And a lot of times it's those high, low situations. When I say that, I mean you've got the slot defender going up to five yards and he's sitting down, but behind him here we're. We're running an end cut and it's got to be 16 yards because if it's not, there's not enough separation between that backer. That backer can literally cover two people because there's not enough room to throw it over him. So you have to get that depth in order for me to throw it over the backer or throw it in into a window. And if you're short, then immediately the entire route concept goes awry.

[Bobby Bones]

What about if you're trying to draw the defense offsides? Did you ever try that without an actual offensive play called and someone still jump?

[Matt Castle]

Oh, it happens a lot. I mean, we would sometimes not even give a play in the helmet and we'd have a live like word or something like that. Now it's for real. And all we were trying to do was go through a double cadence because a lot of times teams will go through. Why did he. Why Did. He said hot. And then they know the second one's live. But we'd go through two full cadences to get them to jump. And a lot of times you would. It would be very effective. And I'd go the live color or whatever it was. And we knew the play, but nobody was supposed to jump. And constantly, whether it was double cadence or was it. Whether it was that situation. And I wouldn't say constantly, but you would often have somebody jump off sides. I'm like, I didn't even give you a play. Like, where are you running? Like, what are you shooting out to block right now? Because I have yet to give you the play at the line of scrimmage. Because a lot of times we'd hold the play. I wouldn't even give him a play in the. In the headset. I'd say, hey, wait for me. I mean, in the huddle, I'd say, wait for me to get through the two cadences and then I will give you what the play is at the line of scrimmage. Because you have all the different signals and stuff. And every now and then guys would jump and I'd be like, I just don't understand. It's kind of like the Vikings game. They were at home the other day. I think they had eight. Eight false start penalties at home. That's absurd. And some of that might be people getting used to JJ McCarthy and his cadence. But to have eight at home is completely, completely. I don't even know what to say. It's a disaster.

[Bobby Bones]

Even eight on the road seems like.

[Matt Castle]

On the road seems a lot. But just have it at home with. Cause cadence is supposed to be a weapon and a factor for the offense. And when you have eight at home, that is just ridiculous.

[Bobby Bones]

I felt like Justin Jefferson wanted to kill him.

[Matt Castle]

Yes. Kill everybody.

[Bobby Bones]

It was not a good week for J.J. mcCarthy.

[Matt Castle]

No, it was not.

[Bobby Bones]

Nine. It was not a good week for nine. That's the character.

[Matt Castle]

He gets into nine.

[Bobby Bones]

Let's go back and forth. I want you to go first because, you know, right before we started taping this show, we learned that they ball was fired.

[Matt Castle]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

So I have you talk about that. I know you know him. Like, what do you know?

[Matt Castle]

What do I know? Well, I know that he was fired like the rest of us do at this point. And I think that it's a result oriented business. I get it. But when he inherited that team in 2022, I mean, they had won 14 games in the previous three seasons. And he comes in and they go to the Playoffs, I think they were 9, 7 and 1 or something like that. That first year they won a playoff game, but then I think the second round of that playoffs is when they got beat down by the Eagles. And then the losing just kind of continued and we're never able to get on. I think some of it was Daniel Jones and at the same time him not being healthy the entire tenure. And then when you go into this season, there was higher expectations, but still there was a quarterback controversy. And when you saw Jackson Dart go in the game, I think that you saw progress from this offense. But then again, you lose Malik Neighbors, your number one wide receiver, you lose Scatterboo, who was obviously a guy that came in and was an impact player. And I think it's also the way in which they lost those games. But I don't put it all on Dable because at the end of the day, in most of those games they were up two scores at some point in the game and defensively they couldn't get the stop and win. And unfortunately for him it was just too much losing because right now what do they set? 2 and 2 and 8. 2 and 8. And they're ready to make a change. And I think the next hire though is going to be a very important hire because of the development of Jackson Dart.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, I feel like that we saw enough growth in Dart and again losing Malik Neighbors, Scatterboo coming, making an impact and then again that flamed quick. It was awesome for a second and then he got hurt. But I felt like that enough earned him at least another year.

[Matt Castle]

Right. And that's what I felt was that's what they were trending toward. And I think some of it too might have been the fact that Jackson Dart got hurt. And you know, everybody's talking about the fact, well, they ran him too much, they put him in harm's way. But their most successful plays this last weekend were was the design QB runs. And so he's doing everything in his power to put this team in a position to win and score points. And they took advantage of Jackson Dart's athleticism and ability to run. And unfortunately he took the wrong hit at the wrong time and it resulted in a concussion. Took him out of the game and really changed the momentum of that game. But I don't put that on day ball because at any given point any player can get hurt and we've seen it.

[Bobby Bones]

Do you feel like it was premature to fire him? Would you have given him another year?

[Matt Castle]

I think that you would have to play this season. I would have let him play this season out, to be honest with you and see where you could take this thing by the end of the year. Because I do think the offense looked completely different with Jackson Dart on the field even minus those injuries to key players on the offensive side. But I mean with ownership there. And the other part is the GM didn't get fired, right? Right. The GM doesn't get fired, he gets to stay. And so it's just an interesting dynamic that they're going to keep him and because he's the one that hired Dave all normally that goes hand in hand. You're getting rid of both those guys. You're going to start a whole new regime change, basically the GM head coach and start over. So it'll be interesting to see what they do there.

[Bobby Bones]

I looked up the odds to see who the next head coach would be for the Giants. The leader right now is Mike McCarthy and I think McCarthy brings you stability.

[Matt Castle]

Yep.

[Bobby Bones]

Not a super high ceiling. I think a, I would say a three quarter ceiling. I think you can win. He won with the Cowboys, right. He obviously won with the Packers.

[Matt Castle]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

He's one of the names being mentioned for the Titans job because you just got to have some sort of stability. But what's tough is to have a stable head coach but the instability of the organization.

[Matt Castle]

Right. And there is instability. But I'd say this, when you look at the defensive side of the ball, that's the part that is a little bit frustrating for me when you look at the Giants because they have what, three first rounders on that defensive line between Burns Thibodeau and Abdul Carter from this year. And they've got dudes all over that defense. But they're not getting it done on that side of the ball because I think that if they stood up and made a few stops on any part of these games, they their record would be major difference in terms of wins versus losses and that might have saved Dabal's job. So. But in terms of Mike McCarthy, I like the fact that he's offensive minded. I like the fact that he's won every place that he's been and he does bring some stability and he's got respect of most people that are in.

[Bobby Bones]

The league, I feel like you could be the most stable coach. But if you're in an unstable environment, there's only so much good you can do. There's a reason the Giants haven't won in 100 years. There's a reason the jets haven't won in 100 years. There'S a reason the Raiders haven't won in 100 years. And it's not the coach because I think Dabel's a good coach. I think he'll go somewhere and win. He may go be OC for a couple years somewhere else, but I don't think this hurts him as a coach to be fired from the Giants. If anything, I think it gives him a shot to go be successful somewhere else. Somewhere where the organization has a bit more stability. Right.

[Matt Castle]

And I don't think that the Giants organization is a place they can go out and get a young coach that a first time head coach because of the nature of that media market. And if you don't have success right away, they're going to eat you alive. And you have to be so mentally tough to be able to handle that. At the same time, like you said, instability within the organization itself and the lack of winning consistently, that's a tough organization to go to if you're a first time head coach.

[Bobby Bones]

Clint Kubiak second spags third. There's two more on the list in the top 10. Robert Sala, which by the way, if I'm Saleh, I do not want to go back to New York.

[Matt Castle]

I don't want to go back to.

[Bobby Bones]

New York for any reason.

[Matt Castle]

I hate everybody in the media there. Right? Yeah. He's like, dude, you guys killed me.

[Bobby Bones]

And also like both of those New York teams, there's a reason they don't win. Because the owners are too medley.

[Matt Castle]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

We shouldn't know who the owners are unless you're a die Hard fan.

[Matt Castle]

Die Hard. And they're in the mix every time. And they. Because they make headlines for the wrong reasons.

[Bobby Bones]

They wanted to fire Day Ball like before they even came back. Did you guys see that? And they talked him out of it on the plane. Like from Denver maybe. They played Denver the week before. Yeah, Denver was a few weeks ago. Yeah. Whenever that game was, they wanted to fire him. After that game on the plane, before they even came back. And they talked the owner out of it. They did play at Denver, but that was like four weeks ago. That's when they wanted to fire him. The first time they blew that big game. Yeah, that's when they wanted to fire him. Lane Kiffin also makes the list, but Lane's up for every job in hr.

[Matt Castle]

Every college coach, every college coach, anybody that needs a coach or anything like that. They want Lane Kiffin. And I understand the connection too, with Jackson Dart. He just had him in college and I was his coach and had a Lot of success. So I. I get that. But I don't think Lanes wants any part of that.

[Bobby Bones]

I don't do that.

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[Vernon Davis]

Not happening.

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[Matt Castle]

No.

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[Bobby Bones]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

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[Bobby Bones]

Good story about Drew, a real United Airlines customer.

[Matt Castle]

After almost four years of treatments, I was finally cancer free and my mom's like, where do you want to go to celebrate? I'm like, let's go somewhere tropical.

[Bobby Bones]

And then pilot hopped on the intercom.

[Matt Castle]

And started talking about me.

[Bobby Bones]

And I was like, what is going on here?

[Matt Castle]

My wife beat cancer too. And I wanted to celebrate his special moment.

[Bobby Bones]

That's Bill, a real United pilot.

[Matt Castle]

We brought him drinks and donuts. We all signed a card. I was smiling ear to ear. Best flight ever for sure. That's how good leads the way.

[Bobby Bones]

Joe Burrow returns to practice. Saw the video.

[Matt Castle]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

It was so lack of sensation. I thought it was a joke.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. Look at Joe. He's standing on the field.

[Bobby Bones]

Well, he walks through and he's just like slowly walks through with his head down. I was surprised they even posted on social media because there was so nothing about it.

[Matt Castle]

They're just building excitement.

[Bobby Bones]

It was just him walking like into the facility with his helmet in his hand with his head down. So the team opened him up the 21 day window to return from IR. The question is, can the Bengals get back in it now? They're three and six. They're third in the AFC North. He hopes to return on Thanksgiving against the Ravens, which could be a big game. The Ravens are by far the favorite to win that division right now.

[Matt Castle]

Isn't that crazy?

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, I mean, they were the favorite the last week that Lamar didn't play. They were still the favorite because he was coming back the next week.

[Matt Castle]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

Like they've been the favorite in that division the whole time, even though the Steelers have been ahead of them. The Bengals are playing the Steelers Patriots, the Ravens. And that Ravens game will be the game that possibly he comes back. So I think if they win one of the two, there's a good shot he comes back, right?

[Matt Castle]

Yes. I think if he can play, I do believe he does come back this season.

[Bobby Bones]

But if it's over, would you even rush him back like Jaden Daniels? I wouldn't bring him back if he's a hundred.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. If he's 100% and he can run around and be himself, then I'd say, yes, you're the franchise quarterback. You've worked your way back in the lineup 100%. Get out there and play. But, I mean, it's going to be tough because the Ravens are one game back from the Steelers and they've got the Browns, the Jets and the Bengals coming up. I mean, those are three winnable games, and they could easily be in first place at that point. And I don't think there's any looking back as long as they're healthy.

[Bobby Bones]

So let's say I'm just going to throw this out. Let's say they beat the Steelers, they lose to the Patriots. That puts them at 54 and 7 playing the Ravens. So Joe Burrows back at 4 and 7. Let's just say they win because he's back. They're 5 and 7. They're playing the Bills. I probably lose that. They're 5 and 8. They're playing the Ravens again. Let's give them another win. Six and eight. The Dolphins, they'll win that seven and eight. The Cardinals, they'll win that eight and eight. Browns, nine and eight. It's like last year when they had to win every game. So there is a shot that they make the playoffs if the Joe Flacco Bengals can beat the Steelers, which he's.

[Matt Castle]

Already proven he can do.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, they have to go to Pittsburgh this time, though.

[Matt Castle]

Oh, yeah. But I mean, after watching the Steelers aren't good.

[Bobby Bones]

They're not good.

[Matt Castle]

After watching the Steelers against the Chargers this week, I mean, I was like, man, this doesn't look good.

[Bobby Bones]

I mean, are we thinking the Bengals can do it? Are we thinking the Bengals can hop back in this thing?

[Matt Castle]

Come on, let's go.

[Bobby Bones]

But last year was fun. They did not hop back in.

[Matt Castle]

They did.

[Bobby Bones]

They did win, but it wasn't enough. And I think they went 9, 8 last year. I'm going from memory, I think they ended up going nine and eight, winning all those games at the end. But they did not get in the playoffs. But Joe Burrow got to stay healthy. Is that right? Nine and eight.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, nine and eight.

[Bobby Bones]

All right, what do you got there? Second topic for us.

[Matt Castle]

I watched this Lions game last week, and I'll tell you, Dan Campbell calling plays. I'm into it because. What did he say that they have to do? They have to get Gibbs involved more. They did. Jameson Williams got him involved more. And the offense just looked like they were on a roll, completely in sync. And I know that they were going up against the commanders whose defenses had the struggles and this, that and the other. But at the end of the day that that offense and how it operated look like the offensive old. So I'm pretty stoked about Campbell coming back in, taking over play calling responsibility because I think it's going to make them better down the line.

[Bobby Bones]

I'm looking at the odds to win the Super Bowl. The Lions are plus 750 in third place. So right now if you're betting the Lions are the third favorite to win the Super Bowl. Yep.

[Matt Castle]

Okay.

[Bobby Bones]

Who do you think number one is.

[Matt Castle]

Right now to win the Super Bowl?

[Bobby Bones]

The betting favorite right now?

[Matt Castle]

I'm going to go with the LA Rams.

[Bobby Bones]

Nice selection. They are at number two.

[Matt Castle]

They're at number two.

[Bobby Bones]

Seattle Seahawks and number five. So what's crazy and I'll walk you back. First of all, both of you guys team the Patriots 10th. No respect.

[Matt Castle]

The Patriots are 10th.

[Bobby Bones]

I love it.

[Matt Castle]

I love it, dude. Just keep it going, keep it going.

[Bobby Bones]

Feel that fire, man.

[Matt Castle]

You go on the road and you beat the Bucks on the road. I mean that was a huge win for that team and the legitimacy and also the narrative around that. Okay, keep going.

[Bobby Bones]

So. Or we can say fifth in the afc. Whatever you want to do. But they're tenth right now.

[Matt Castle]

Okay.

[Bobby Bones]

I do feel like as a non biased person, that seems to be a little low. I think they should be up a bit at nine, the Packers. I got to tell you something, you're going to have to reconvince me that the packers are good.

[Matt Castle]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

What a terrible game.

[Matt Castle]

That was terrible.

[Bobby Bones]

And I'm only watching on my app because I have YouTube TV so I can't even watch it because they've taken all the channels off and you think it was boring to watch the actual players play. Imagine watching just like the cartoon characters. It was the most.

[Matt Castle]

It was like the Nickelodeon.

[Bobby Bones]

It was worse than that. I was like, I'm trying to watch my fantasy players because I had Jalen Hurts and I did like 12 points and like luckily he got me the point that actually won my game. But it was a terrible game to watch.

[Matt Castle]

Well, unless you're defensive minded. I mean, unless you all you like to watch is defense dominate. Because both those defenses were incredible and the offenses were not, not going out there and being productive in any sense of the word. Now they got a few plays here and there, but that's all it took in this game because it was low scoring, defensive dominated and I mean neither one of these offense came out with any firepower whatsoever.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, the packers got to reconvince me?

[Matt Castle]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Because I think I was big on the packers, but I think maybe I was just listening to people that I feel like are smarter than me.

[Matt Castle]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

And now after watching them, well, I think.

[Matt Castle]

I think the.

[Bobby Bones]

The craft being hurt sucked as well.

[Matt Castle]

I think the misperception too. Kraft was hurt and so was there was another. Their Matthews, Matthew Golden. Matthew golden was also hurt. So I get that. But I think the perception was after watching them dominate the Lions first game of the year, getting Parsons all the firepower that they have, that this was a team that was super bowl bound. And then as the season has continued to go along, you start to realize, well, they've got some issues, particularly on the offensive side of the ball. And Jordan Love, I think he's a really good quarterback, but I don't think he's at the upper echelon of the quarterback position right now.

[Bobby Bones]

The Ravens at 8, they're getting a lot of credit for what they're probably going to do.

[Matt Castle]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

More so than what they have done. Again, they have a top three quarterback and he missed. He has missed most of the season for sure. The bills at 7. Hey, not a good look. I think I'm a little concerned about the Bills.

[Matt Castle]

They laid an egg. They laid an egg. Now, I know they're what, the top rushing team in the NFL, James Cook. But my concern with that team is the wide receiver and the weapons that they have on the outside because at some point they're going to load the box and those guys are going to go have to win one on one opportunities. And when you watch that Dolphins game, there was nobody open. And Josh Allen can't do it all by himself.

[Bobby Bones]

He's had to do it by himself and won before.

[Matt Castle]

So we expect it can. Yeah. And you expect it, but it really. A lot of red flags popped up in that game.

[Bobby Bones]

Colts at 6. I was glad to see them win again.

[Matt Castle]

Yep.

[Bobby Bones]

I'm in. I want small market teams to matter.

[Matt Castle]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

And I like, this isn't like baseball, though. No.

[Matt Castle]

Because we got a salary cap that everyone's got to spend.

[Bobby Bones]

I hear you. And you know what? Let's pour one out.

[Matt Castle]

Let's pour one out.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. You know their owner died.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah.

[Liberty Mutual Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Matt Castle]

Okay. We'll go small market team.

[Bobby Bones]

Small market team with a dead owner. I'm all for it. And then also, like, I'm rooting for Daniel Jones.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

I feel like he's been through.

[Matt Castle]

I am rooting for Daniel Jones.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. I'm rooting for Daniel Jones. The Seahawks at five. The Eagles at Four.

[Matt Castle]

Eagles at four. At four.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

The Lions at three, the Rams at two. And the number one team with the best odds, meaning you're going to make the least amount of money. They'll favorite Chiefs. The Chiefs. And they're not even in small market team. They're not even in the playoffs right now. If the season ended right now, they would not make the playoffs.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, it's amazing. But they're still. I mean, they have a tough schedule though too. They do have a really tough schedule.

[Bobby Bones]

Schedule, Kevin. So right now, here's the AFC playoff picture. If it were to end today. Colts at 1. They get to buy.

[Matt Castle]

Well, the Chiefs also been holding, holding plays back, remember.

[Bobby Bones]

That's true.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

So according to Nick Wright, the Broncos at two. I think that's a fraudulent two.

[Matt Castle]

The Broncos are at two.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, because they, they're eight and two.

[Matt Castle]

I know they're eight and two, but have you watched their games?

[Bobby Bones]

That's what I say.

[Matt Castle]

It's a fraudulent two at some point.

[Bobby Bones]

But you are fourth quarter. Your record says you are.

[Matt Castle]

You are. I mean to get into playoffs, I feel like. But to win those games consistently in the playoffs against the best teams, I. That, that's tough sliding for me to believe that they're two.

[Bobby Bones]

Give me your Kansas City Chiefs over there. We got the Broncos next at the Broncos this week. Then the Colts. Yep. At Dallas, three versus Houston. They're peeling off four in a row right now. Go ahead. Yeah. Okay. Then the Chargers, they owe them one. They're peeling off five in a row. And this is the for sure win at Tennessee, six in a row. Then the Broncos again, seven in a row. Let's end the season at Vegas. Okay. The Chiefs may not lose.

[Matt Castle]

Okay. So maybe, maybe they're through the hardest part of their schedule. Maybe they're through.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. They may not lose again this year. Year. Yeah. And look, the Chargers game, that's a tough one. They've already lost to the Chargers once.

[Matt Castle]

Yes, they did.

[Bobby Bones]

They owe them one. The Patriots will be the three. The Steelers will be the four. Chargers five, Buffalo six. And the Jaguars will be seven. The Jaguars did beat the Chiefs when they played that one time earlier this year.

[Matt Castle]

Yes, they did. But they, they've had some injuries, especially on that offensive line. They lost both of their tackles, which is going to make. And, and Herbert gets hit a lot.

[Bobby Bones]

It's crazy to me. The Chiefs are the betting favorite and right now they wouldn't even make the playoffs. I've never seen anything like that before.

[Matt Castle]

I think they just went through the schedule just like we did and said, yep, yep, yep. Got it.

[Bobby Bones]

What else you got? You have another one over there.

[Matt Castle]

Gronk signs a 11 day contract. I guess it would be to retire with the Patriots. And when you look at the tight end position, all time greats, I think he is the best of all time.

[Bobby Bones]

I think he's definitely the hardest player to guard, the hardest player to line up against. I don't think he's statistically the best.

[Matt Castle]

He's not. I mean, you've got guys like Gates and Tony Gonzalez, Jason Whitten, guys like that that have been around. Travis Kelsey is going to be up there in terms of statistics. But when you look at the definition of what a tight end is, I agree. Between blocking running routes, big body, nobody can cover you because you're just a freak of nature.

[Bobby Bones]

Unguardable.

[Matt Castle]

He was unguardable. And you could put him outside of db. It's a mismatch. You bring him inside, put them on a linebacker or safety. Same, same thing. But then the other part is they would run behind him like he was a dominant blocker. I don't think you've seen the likes of somebody that can do it both in the past game and on the line of scrimmage in the run game. In terms of blocking like Gronk did, I just think he's just up there as the best tight end to ever play.

[Bobby Bones]

I think he's the best to ever play as well. But I don't think he'll be the greatest to most people because statistically he doesn't have that. Although he did win Super Bowls.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah.

[Vernon Davis]

Multiples.

[Bobby Bones]

And it's just hard talking to you two because you played for the Patriots and you're a dire Patriots fan. Yeah. There's a little bit of bias.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. But I didn't play with Gronk.

[Bobby Bones]

But I. I mean, you're a Patriot.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, I guess I could consider myself a Patriot.

[Bobby Bones]

Well, I consider you a Patriot.

[Matt Castle]

I was a. Well, I know that's the only. Only season you ever saw me play because you couldn't care about my career anywhere else.

[Bobby Bones]

I think I probably watched you playing Kansas City a little bit.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, a little bit.

[Bobby Bones]

What if it turns out I was a super fan and this was my whole plan for years to get you to come and do a show?

[Matt Castle]

You have no idea. I got a Patriot tattoo on my shoulder.

[Bobby Bones]

You do have a Patriot tattoo.

[Matt Castle]

No, not at all.

[Bobby Bones]

Let me do this. Brian Kelly is now suing LSU over an attempt to short circuit his buyout this has become the greatest soap opera. It's so good because LSU fires him and we're like, dang, that's crazy. Now pay him out is 50 million. And so we hear their negotiation and I'm going, why would he negotiate?

[Matt Castle]

That's what I wanted to know.

[Bobby Bones]

To give them some of his buyout back. And maybe it's. He wants a lot of it up front and it wasn't in there. Maybe it's mitigate. I don't know the details of his contract, but that being said, they kept coming back going. No, he wants his full buyout.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And so now the last thing that I saw was LSU has now said, we haven't fired him yet. We haven't fired him yet and we're going to fire him for cause.

[Matt Castle]

And so the cause of losing, like that's just part of the job.

[Bobby Bones]

Like, it's bizarre. You feel like they might have fired him a little too early.

[Liberty Mutual Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

They didn't have all their ducks in a row. They emotionally said he's fired.

[Matt Castle]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

And now they're going, he won't take less money. We had planned for him to negotiate and take less than the $56 million.

[Matt Castle]

Because I also heard it was like a 30 day payout. It wasn't like over time, which is a hefty sum.

[Bobby Bones]

90%.

[Matt Castle]

90% was to be paid out.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. And so LSU is on the hook for $54 million. And so now if I'm Brian Kelly, which by the way, I think Brian Kelly is the most unlikable guy in college football. That being said, I'm now rooting for him.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, he's going to win this. Like, what do you mean? He didn't fire me. You had a press conference. The governor came on. We fired the aad. So is the AD still. Are you on the hook for that money or he's not fired either. Are you going to bring him back to coach the team? What are you talking about?

[Bobby Bones]

According to the lawsuit obtained by espn, Kelly claims LSU called him earlier on Monday and said he'd never been formally terminated and that the school was instead looking into firing him for cause. But cause would mean he did something, not lose games.

[Matt Castle]

Anything inappropriate that they deem that inappropriate. Yes, they'd have a leg to stand on.

[Bobby Bones]

But right now, pay the man.

[Matt Castle]

We haven't heard anything or nothing's come out about cause.

[Bobby Bones]

I can't believe you made me root for Ryan Kelly and I kind of hate you for it. Lsu, because I think he's the worst. But pay the Man. Or I'm rooting for him.

[Matt Castle]

I heard he's in contract negotiations with Arkansas.

[Bobby Bones]

You did not. And I tweeted. And I'm very careful about not. Not creating a barrier between me and anybody specifically. That hasn't worked for Arkansas. And I am always like, I never say I don't want this coach or I want this coach. Never do that. Because who knows who's gonna have the job? And I wanna have a decent relationship. And so I did.

[Liberty Mutual Ad Voice]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

I'm there for whoever. Except Brian Kelly.

[Matt Castle]

Really.

[Bobby Bones]

That's how much I dislike Brian Kelly. But now I'm rooting for it.

[Matt Castle]

Is this the first time you've ever done that? Speaks a lot?

[Bobby Bones]

Probably. I was pretty vocal that I don't think Sam Pittman's the guy. And I got some backlash from that early on. But it wasn't because I dislike Sam Pittman at all.

[Matt Castle]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

I like Sam.

[Matt Castle]

You didn't think he was the right fit?

[Bobby Bones]

I did not. And I'm a fan before I'm anything else. Before I'm a booster, before I'm the guy that's got shows. I'm a fan first and foremost. And I tweet like a fan.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. How would you. How would you do in the ad role there?

[Bobby Bones]

I would do awesome. We'd have winners. Because I would raise money.

[Matt Castle]

Yes. That's what it is. It's resources, Ben. You've got a lot of them at Arkansas.

[Bobby Bones]

I would create relationships and have. I think I do pretty good.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. I think you'd be a relationship builder for sure.

[Bobby Bones]

I think I'd be a money getter.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. Just give me your money.

[Bobby Bones]

I think I would.

[Matt Castle]

It's for the pigs.

[Bobby Bones]

I also know, as somebody with an ego, how to actually, like, massage people's egos.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Like, find out what makes them feel good and make them feel good so they give you money that makes you feel good.

[Matt Castle]

This all makes sense. I'm feeling good.

[Bobby Bones]

Listen to you. Feeling good right now.

[Matt Castle]

Like, honestly, I'm feeling good about this.

[Bobby Bones]

Thank you. Where do I donate?

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, seriously, go fund me. Bobby Bones in Arkansas.

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[Bobby Bones]

Good story about Bronx and his dad, Ryan. Real United Airlines customers.

[Matt Castle]

We were returning home and one of the flight attendants asked Bronx if he wanted to see the flight deck and.

[Vernon Davis]

Meet Kathy and Andrew.

[Bobby Bones]

I got to sit in the driver's seat.

[Matt Castle]

I grew up in an aviation family, and seeing Bronx coming kind of reminded.

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[Bobby Bones]

That's Andrew, a real United pilot. These small interactions can shape a kid's future.

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It felt like I was the captain.

[Vernon Davis]

Allowing my son to see the flight deck will stick with us forever.

[Bobby Bones]

That's how good leads the way.

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[Bobby Bones]

It'S time for the week in Preview presented by DraftKings. From first touchdown scorer to anytime touchdown props or the thrill of live in game betting, every snap is loaded with opportunity. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to go through the three biggest games in the NFL for week 11. Bucks at Bills. Hey, this is a good one because both those teams need to win.

[Matt Castle]

This is a really good they're in Buffalo, in Buffalo.

[Bobby Bones]

And that probably affects Tampa more so than a lot of these other teams because Tampa is pretty warm.

[Matt Castle]

It's very warm. And it's just like when a cold weather team goes down to Tampa. There's an impact of that, especially going into the heat from cold weather. And then there's an impact of Tampa going up to the cold weather. This one's tough for me because I really do like the Buccaneers in their defense and also obviously the way Baker Mayfield's playing, he battled last week against the Patriots. I'm going to go with the Buccaneers on the road against the Bills.

[Bobby Bones]

I think the Bills need it a little bit more because we expect them to be not just winning the AFC east. We expect expect them to be that number one team, number two team battling for that spot. And I think they have more on the line if they lose again. I think it hurts them worse than if the Bucks lose two in a row. Just divisionally speaking.

[Matt Castle]

Does that put them three back against the Patriots in the division? Yeah.

[Vernon Davis]

Wow.

[Bobby Bones]

So I'm going with the Bills. I just think it means. And it matters more to them.

[Vernon Davis]

Okay.

[Bobby Bones]

And then maybe like there's like a bald dude with like a fake mustache over there coaching like his analyst. It's Brian Dabel. He's back over, got a fake mustache on Fake mustache.

[Matt Castle]

He's from Buffalo.

[Bobby Bones]

Well, I mean, I know him from being the offensive coordinator with Josh Allen. That's. Yeah.

[Matt Castle]

But he's actually grew up in Buffalo.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Matt Castle]

So I think he's probably still got a home there.

[Bobby Bones]

Seahawks at Rams.

[Matt Castle]

Oh, this is so good.

[Bobby Bones]

I feel like the Seahawks, and I think part of it is where they're located. I feel like they're not getting the respect that they deserve because they've been killing folks.

[Matt Castle]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

I think when you're in Seattle or you're in Portland, it's just hard to get the respect because you're just so far behind and you're not la, like la, San Francisco, bigger markets, but especially la. Like, things are based in la. So they get the love, naturally, because a lot of these analysts are there.

[Matt Castle]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

I feel like Seattle doesn't get the love because nobody's there.

[Matt Castle]

I would agree with you because they're playing as good as football as anybody in the league. I would even argue that they could potentially be the best team in football right now. Just the way that the offense is operating. Sam Darnold's been amazing. Defense has been outstanding. So, I mean, these two teams, this one's a hard pick for me because they both have a great identity on offense. They know who they are. They've got superstar players on the outside. The quarterbacks are playing at a really high level and the defenses are young and getting after people. I'm still going to have to go with the Rams at home. Matt Stafford, just his. His big game experience and everything. Not to say that Sam Darnold doesn't have that, but Stafford's a proven entity and at the end of the day, I think he's playing at a really, really high level. MVP type.

[Bobby Bones]

Stafford's awesome. I was surprised to see that he just now has 500 all time.

[Matt Castle]

Really?

[Bobby Bones]

If you pull up his record. Because I think another played for Detroit for. Yes, that's why.

[Matt Castle]

Fifteen years.

[Bobby Bones]

That's why.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. And they were always like that. Eight and eight, like right around there. And had some down years, had a.

[Bobby Bones]

Few up years, but he was like something. Something in one. What is it? 1:15, 1:15 and one. Wow. Hall of Famer for sure. For sure. Super bowl champion. Really One of the best. One of the best 50 quarterback, I think, of all time. I just. Because I haven't thought about it. Maybe he's the best 25, but one of the best 50 of all time.

[Matt Castle]

What he had to endure for all those years, as talented as he is, then lifted up that organization to be better than what they could. You imagine if he didn't go there?

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, yeah. Chiefs at Broncos.

[Matt Castle]

I'm going Chiefs.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. Chiefs won't. I don't think the Chiefs lose like three years. That's my prediction that we don't see a loss like 2030.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, I do think that Broncos defense is really good. So I will say that they're going to put up a fight. But for them to continue to win games consistently in the fourth quarter in the manner in which they have, I think it's hard pressed to think that they can maintain that.

[Bobby Bones]

I think they're the Denver Frodkos. I just made that up.

[Matt Castle]

Boom, boom.

[Bobby Bones]

Thank you.

[Matt Castle]

You nailed that.

[Bobby Bones]

But again, you are what your record says you are. They're eight and two.

[Matt Castle]

It's pretty impressive.

[Bobby Bones]

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[Bobby Bones]

All right, we're going to get over and talk with former NFL tight end Vernon Davis. Vernon was drafted 6 6th overall in 2006 by the 49ers. He went on to play 14 years in the NFL. He ran a sub 44 40. He has a new podcast we're going to talk about called the Next Role and you can follow him on Instagram ernandavis85. Here he is, Vernon Davis. So Vernon, before we start talking about ball, like what is your next role? Like what are you finding fulfilling in right now?

[Vernon Davis]

My next role is is film and television just being just doing things that bring me joy. And I think that's the biggest thing that gives me motivation when I wake up every morning.

[Matt Castle]

Vern, how you doing, buddy? It's good to see you again. About the new podcast, what's something that you've already learned doing this only a month, that maybe you didn't know before starting this endeavor?

[Vernon Davis]

Well, I didn't know that. It took a great deal of effort on my end, I thought. But, you know, I would have people, you know, doing all the work for me pretty much. But it goes hand in hand with everything else in life. If you want something, if you. If you're passionate about it, then you put your own time and energy into it.

[Bobby Bones]

Are you enjoying it? Are you finding you're taking to it pretty good?

[Vernon Davis]

Yeah, yeah, I enjoy it. I enjoy it. It's a building process. Just like all the things that I did when I was playing football, you started. I related to, like, starting from the beginning. When I first got to San Francisco, we were losing. Couldn't find a win at all. And then all of a sudden, boom.

[Matt Castle]

So on the show and the premise of the show, you've got ex athletes, you got comedians, you got people from all different walks of life. Was that something that you really wanted to have inside this new podcast that you started?

[Vernon Davis]

Yeah, I wanted to infuse my life with this podcast, like from playing football, athletes. Basketball was my first love. Also, there's a. There's a lot of things that I'm doing now in the basketball space. I invested in a team in Australia called the National Basketball, in the National Basketball League, NBL team, which is the Brisbane Bullets. So I wanted to cultivate that, even with the production side of, you know, friends and people that I've met and the acting world and television world. So it's. It just all comes together. It's just my life infused in one.

[Bobby Bones]

Let's talk about basketball in high school. How good a ballplayer were you in high school?

[Vernon Davis]

Oh, man, I was okay. I was okay. The. The. One of the. One of the guys that I played against in high school in my area was Kevin Durant. I remember playing against him. It was. That was. That was tough. Cause they also had Patrick Ewing Jr. They had a really good team, so it was a challenge for us, but I think I did really well.

[Bobby Bones]

What'd you average?

[Vernon Davis]

Probably 8 to 10 points a game. We had a guy on our team named Trey Kelly who was scoring all the points every night, so he was a little selfish. He wouldn't. He wouldn't pass the ball much, so we had to let him do. Do, do his thing.

[Matt Castle]

So you played basketball, you played football. Did you also do track in high school. And then what ultimately led you to Maryland?

[Vernon Davis]

I did. I did. I did track and field. I did shot put. I did high jump. And I felt like those things really helped mold me as a football player. And the thing that led me to Maryland was just staying close to home, staying close to my grandparents, my family, and allowing them the opportunity to be able to see me play on Saturdays.

[Bobby Bones]

So you sound like a guy, then, that would want kids to play a bunch of sports, not just specialize in a single sport.

[Vernon Davis]

Yeah, but unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. I tried to get my son to run track and play basketball, but he refused. He came home one day after track practice, and I was like, you're supposed to be at track practice. He was like, yeah, dad. But I just didn't go there, so. Okay, I get it. I get it. You don't want to do it. And he's. And I'm excited for him because he's. He's going to Maryland to play football as a linebacker in 2026. So excited for Gianni.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. You're one of those rare tight ends, obviously, when you're coming out, your explosive athleticism and all that was recognized at the combine when you ran, what, a 4, 3, 8, which is unheard of at the tight end position, but you're drafted 6 overall at the age of 22. Talk about that process and what that was like for you and the expectation that went along, getting drafted to the 49ers, 6 pick overall as a tight end.

[Vernon Davis]

Yeah, that process for me was. Was very important. I knew how. I knew what the combine could do for a young guy coming into the NFL, and I don't think a lot of guys took that serious. It was a way for me to increase my stock in the draft, and I did. I felt like all the hard work and dedication I put in from high school to college and even training for the combine really stood out. So my approach going to the combine was like, hey, I'm going to be the best in everything that I compete in. I remember that night before going to bed, I just kept listening to. It was a song by Eminem. You only get one shot. Do not miss your chance. The opportunities come once in a lifetime. That song I would listen to all the time because it was, you know, music motivates you. It gives you the inspiration that you need. And I got up that morning, and it was game time for me, it was game time. I knew this was the moment that was going to change my life forever. And that was my approach.

[Bobby Bones]

When you were at Maryland, you played h back, you played tight end. You moved around a bit, but you could have also been a wide receiver. I mean, you ran so fast. You were just large. You could have been a large wide receiver, right, Instead of a. A really fast tight end. Why did you decide to play in rather than split out?

[Vernon Davis]

When I arrived at Maryland, I did start a wide receiver. And then Coach Franklin, you know, unfortunately, my heart goes out to him because he's a hell of a coach there at Penn State, but Coach Franklin was. He was a wide receiver coach there. When I arrived, Coach Friedman told me he was watching me one day in practice. He said, you know what? We're going to move you to hmac. And then I said, why, Coach? He said, because I feel like you want to get bigger. I said, okay. And then from there, h back lead blocking on linebackers for the running back at times and flexed out catching balls in the flats and things of that nature. And then my junior year, I was a true tight end, and he was right. I got up to about £253.

[Matt Castle]

When you first got to the 49ers, obviously you were an organization that was still building to get to eventually where you got to. But you obviously went through adversity. And we remember the 2008, at least I do. I'm sure you do with Mike Singletary and the altercation that you guys had. But what. That was probably a turning point for you and a growing moment. You obviously eventually become the captain. But talk about that moment and what that did for you and your career and. And how that helped change you as a player. In your mindset, when you're coming into.

[Vernon Davis]

The National Football League, you. You look up to certain individuals. You try to find that identity. And sometimes the person that you're looking up to isn't the right person. So you have to really make sure you put yourself around the right role model. And I was searching for that. I had a me, me mentality, and it shouldn't have been that way. I only had it. It was only that way because I had a chip on my shoulder. I wanted to be the best at what I was doing, but I didn't know how to go about it. Coach Singer Tay was there. He was always watching me. He was always behind me. I remember the first day I arrived, and he came up to me. He said, you have great qualities, and I feel like you can be the best. And he told me that from day one. And I guess he knew exactly what to do to get my attention. The day he called me out, sent me to the locker room, I remember going home, watching it on tv. I got a text from him saying, come see me in the morning. And when I arrived in his office that morning, we had a heart to heart. He started to cry. I was crying and. And from there I started to see the big picture. The big picture of what they brought me in here to be in the big picture of just my journey and what I wanted for myself. In order to do that, I had to be selfless instead of selfish and just be a great locker room guy all the time. We hear the term great locker room guy. That's very important. That dictates whether the guy's playing three years or 15 years. So if you're a great locker room guy, that transfers to the field. And that's what I became.

[Bobby Bones]

I'd love to hear about both quarterbacks in San Francisco, both Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick, and what it was like playing with both of those guys. Like both of their strengths.

[Vernon Davis]

Well, they're totally different. Alex was. Of course, Alex was my favorite guy because when I came in, he was there. That was the guy they brought me. That was the guy they brought me in for to, you know, just to cultivate a relationship from a receiver, quarterback standpoint. And he was. I mean, he was amazing, man. He was. We saw everything he went through with the injury in Washington, D.C. with his leg. That's who Alex Smith is. He's resilient, he's relentless. And he had that from the beginning of time. Even from the time when he suffered from the concussion and was benched. To Colin Kaepernick. For Colin Kaepernick to step in when Harbaugh was there. His ability, I mean, he has unique, great arm strength. He had great football awareness, great IQ for the game. He was a football player. Unfortunately, he didn't have that in the beginning because we had to go from. We went from offensive coordinator to offensive coordinator. It was chaotic. And he didn't have a chance to grow and evolve as a quarterback. But he showed who he was when he went to Kansas City. Now, Colin Kaepernick, on another thing, he's just totally different. Different style of playing quarterback. The way he threw the ball, the way his ability to run, he was just totally different. But unfortunately for Colin Kaepernick, that didn't last long for him. They were both great humans, fan favorites in the locker room, but Alex Smith was. When I look at quarterbacks, I would say Alex Smith is The guy that I really, really enjoy playing with.

[Matt Castle]

Talk about Coach Harbaugh coming in in 2011. Obviously, there had to be a cultural shift at that point, because from 2011 and 2014, you guys go to three straight NFC championship games, go make a Super bowl appearance as well. But talk about the impact he had on that organization at that time.

[Vernon Davis]

Coach Harbaugh coming in, there was a culture shift. The guys started. I mean, we had some of the same guys. Ahmaud Brooks, Alden Smith, Justin Smith, Frank Gore, all the guys. We had the core. That core group of guys. What happened was, is just. Well, of course, the game plan, both offensively, defensively, new system all around. And what he expected out of us was totally different. Like, he held us. You talking about accountability? He's the guy to enforce that. That he's going to enforce accountability. He's going to make sure that you guys, the guys understand that, hey, I want you, but I don't need you. You can easily be replaced. And once guys understood that, I mean, it was. It was like a totally different dynamic. He just. He just has this way about him that, you know, I mean, he's. He's the general man. He knows how to get guys to play the game of football and play at a high level.

[Bobby Bones]

So then you weren't surprised to see him, I'm guessing, win a national championship at Michigan and then turn the Chargers around?

[Vernon Davis]

No, I wasn't surprised to see him win a national championship. I wasn't surprised at all because I know that Harbaugh has. He has it. You know, a lot of guys either have it in you or you don't. He's made for football. You know, it might take him some time. He'll get you there. You may not win it, but he's going to come back and do something miraculous at some point in time. He's one of those type of guys that you. You don't want to let him go because you know what his pedigree is, from his brother to his father to who he is. He just has.

[Matt Castle]

Talk to us about that divisional game against the Saints. It's referred to as catch number three in the 49ers folklore of their organization. But what do you remember from that game and that moment when you caught that touchdown pass? Because it was probably one of the best divisional games of all time in NFL history.

[Vernon Davis]

Oh, yeah, that game. That was our first time going to the playoffs, believe it or not. First time there. Super excited. We wanted it. You know how it is when you play this game. You can never. You play and you play and you're looking for that win. That could get super frustrating. I felt bad for guys like Frank Gore who've been there. Frank arrived the year before me in 2005. He was extremely upset over the years and just watching him. So when we finally made it to the playoffs, it was just. We had something in us. It was something about that team that we were desperate for that win. I knew how important it was for the team, the organization, the fans, and just the city of San Francisco. So that was the first time I felt like I was unstoppable, like I was in the zone. Like it was nothing that could stop me from producing for my team.

[Bobby Bones]

Right.

[Vernon Davis]

I remember going to Harbaugh, saying, harbaugh, just throw me the ball. You can throw me the ball. I got it. Trust me. And he just. They just kept coming to me. Alex, you know, he called the play. It was a play that we installed, called the. It was the Vernon post. We ran that play one time. I didn't think we were going to call it, but Greg Roman called that play. We had a couple seconds left on the clock. It was the play that brought that game home. I remember it was like it was yesterday.

[Bobby Bones]

It's the 20th anniversary of dancing with the Stars. You did the show. What are your memories from that show?

[Vernon Davis]

Me wanting to go home, me wanting to quit.

[Liberty Mutual Alternate Ad Voice]

Why?

[Bobby Bones]

Why is that?

[Vernon Davis]

That was the hardest thing I ever had to do in my life, I'm not gonna lie. I guess because it was. It was super foreign to me. I didn't. I didn't have. I didn't know how to dance. You know, I'm not a dancing guy. I don't have a dancing background. So walking into a studio, having to develop a dance routine in two days is extremely tough, extremely difficult. It was a challenge for me, I'm not gonna lie. But I didn't. I kept going, I kept fighting, and eventually it became. It became fun. It became fun once I learned the. Just the different. The different things you need to have when it comes to dancing, especially ballroom dancing.

[Bobby Bones]

I know you have your super bowl trophy, but don't I. I did win that show.

[Matt Castle]

Flex. He did win. He won the show.

[Bobby Bones]

Tell me this is not the ultimate flex. I don't bring it out often.

[Matt Castle]

Thank you.

[Bobby Bones]

Thank you. This is the one athletic thing that I probably have a trophy that you don't in the history of the world with one thing.

[Matt Castle]

With a banged up shoulder, too, right?

[Lowe's Ad Voice]

Oh, yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

I tore my shoulder. I had to go to, like, the Titans. I didn't play pro ball, obviously, but I had to go to the Titans facility in Nashville because I tore my shoulder. I didn't know how to dance. I'd never danced in my life. And so I tore my shoulder on the first dance because I fell at the end of the dance because I was celebrating because I never actually finished the dance in practice.

[Matt Castle]

That's exactly.

[Vernon Davis]

Wow.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And I didn't. I didn't go to the 20th anniversary because I freaking tore my ankle. So I'm in a cast right now. And before you came on, I was like, I think Vernon did the show. And, yeah, it was. It was super hard. So, yeah. Anyway, I just want to show off my trophy, that's all.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, he got that trophy. And then in our profession, you got the ultimate trophy. You're traded to Denver in 2015 with Peyton Manning. Talk about that experience, what that was like, and actually ultimately getting to achieve what all of us ultimately wanted to achieve in this sport.

[Vernon Davis]

Yeah, so. So when that happened, so we had. I think we had just finished playing the St. Louis Rams at the time. And I remember being home. We're getting to the house that night. Waking up that morning with the text from Trent Balk, our general manager, saying, hey, Vernon, come see me. So I'm already like, he never. He never sends me. He never sent me a text like that. If it was, it would be. It would be a phone call rather than a text. So I knew something's kind of fishy. I go in, I see him, and he says, sit. Sit down, son. I sit down, and it's like, what's this about You. You guys probably gonna trade me, huh? He's like, yeah. So he started pulling up different teams, and he's like, denver highly interested in bringing you in. So I was just like, okay. I'm processing everything, and of course, I'm shedding tears because I'm with this organization. I've been with this organization since 2006. Now it's 2015. I'm like, all right. So that happened. Get on the plane and go to Denver, and I get a text from Peyton saying, come see me when you get here. I'll be in the gym. The rest is just history. Ended up winning a Super bowl. Super Bowl 50 in Denver. Von Miller, DeMarcus Wood, where we just had an amazing team. That team reminded me of the team that we had when I went to Super Bowl 47 with the San Francisco 49ers. It was just the same kind of energy, the same feel. Everybody was so Positive confidence was, like, just super out there, and you could just feel it. You could feel the energy. It was just a great thing we had going on. Unfortunately, the thing for me was that I played with two different quarterbacks. I played with Park Osweiler, and I played with Peyton Manning. So learning both guys on the fly within a month or two was just, like, super difficult for me. I'm not gonna lie. It was a challenge because it was just the. A totally different process and playbook with Peyton Manning. And it was awesome to experience that, even though I didn't feel as comfortable as I wanted to. But I wish I had the opportunity to start with those guys in the beginning, from training camp all the way through. It would have been a special. It would have been even more special, I think. But, look, I don't take anything for granted. I enjoy the moment, the journey, the process, and, you know, that's a moment that I'll remember for the rest of my life.

[Bobby Bones]

Final question. How did you know when it was time to hang him up?

[Vernon Davis]

I had my last concussion. My grandfather just died, and the way I was feeling, I was like, mentally, I'm not. I'm not in it. And this game is, to me, is probably 90, 90% mental. 10% is just the physicality of the game, in my opinion, because the things that you have to do and create in your mind when you're out there in that field is, man, if you don't have that, then you can't play this game. And to me, I wanted to be able to be free mentally when playing this game of football, because I had to have that all my career, I used my mind to go out there and produce at the highest level. So I knew it was time. When that feeling came over me, I knew it was time to let the game go.

[Bobby Bones]

All right, the podcast is called the Next Role. You can listen wherever you get your podcast, you can watch on YouTube. Vernon Davis. Vernon, we really appreciate the time, man. Good luck with the podcast, good luck with the acting, good luck just finding your next role. You have the fulfillment in your life now, so we appreciate that.

[Vernon Davis]

I appreciate it, guys. Thanks for having me.

[Matt Castle]

All right, thanks for.

[Bobby Bones]

Thanks, Vernon.

[Matt Castle]

All the best, Brian. All right.

[Vernon Davis]

Good to see you.

[Matt Castle]

You, too.

[Vernon Davis]

All right, thank you.

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[Bobby Bones]

Liberty.

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[Bobby Bones]

This is a real good story about Drew, a real United Airlines customer.

[Matt Castle]

After almost four years of treatments, I was finally cancer free.

[Bobby Bones]

My mom's like, where do you want.

[Matt Castle]

To go to celebrate? I'm like, let's go somewhere tropical.

[Bobby Bones]

And then pilot hopped on the intercom.

[Matt Castle]

And started talking about me.

[Bobby Bones]

And I was like, what is going on?

[Matt Castle]

My wife beat cancer too. And I wanted to celebrate his special moment.

[Bobby Bones]

That's Bill, a real United pilot.

[Matt Castle]

We brought him drinks and donuts. We all signed a card. I was smiling ear to ear. Best flight ever. For sure. That's how good leads the way.

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[Bobby Bones]

Okay, before we go, who's a coach in the NFL that you look at now and you think, I didn't get the chance to play for with them, but I would love to have played four with him.

[Matt Castle]

Probably Kevin o'. Connell.

[Bobby Bones]

But you played with him.

[Matt Castle]

I know. That doesn't matter. Yeah, that's what would make it so great. Got a great relationship. No, I mean he's a QB whisperer. I think that. Have you watched the videos of him after the game?

[Bobby Bones]

Yes, in the locker room.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. I never would have guessed that when I first started playing with him. The, the way that he's matured and grown up in the profession, but also his messaging and everything else. I think he's just a high character individual and it would be a fun experience to play for him. Plus, they do win a lot of games. I know they're going through a little bit of a phase right here where they're not winning a lot of games, but that would be a guy I would like to play for.

[Bobby Bones]

I'd like to see what he says with no cameras, no microphones. To his closest of confidants about JJ McCarthy, I'll call him because I think it's really bad.

[Matt Castle]

I don't think it's what they expected. And I think that they're now looking in the mirror going, Sam Darnold's out there in Seattle and Daniel Jones. And Daniel Jones, they had them both.

[Bobby Bones]

Now they weren't going to be able to offer them long term contracts or they, they weren't going to.

[Matt Castle]

But what Sam get a three year deal? Yeah, three year deal. And you still had J.J. mcCarthy on a rookie deal. So potentially you could still make that work.

[Bobby Bones]

Very hindsight of you. Yes.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah. I mean, I'm just looking at it. I wouldn't have let Sam Darnold walk outside that building after the season that he had. And I know that people like, well, in the biggest moments against the Rams late in the year and this, that look, if you look at Jared Goff and what he did in that playoff game last year against the Commanders, he threw four interceptions. So, I mean, I know that it was because Sam was a first year starter for the Minnesota Vikings, was with Kevin o'.

[Vernon Davis]

Connell.

[Matt Castle]

And they say, well, it's Kevin o'. Connell. No, it's the player out there making plays, doing it consistently. And I would have never broke that relationship up.

[Bobby Bones]

My agent has called me three times during this podcast. Is that good or bad? It's one of the two.

[Matt Castle]

What are we doing, guys? What's next?

[Bobby Bones]

It's.

[Matt Castle]

I don't get rid of Castle. We're going up. You're hosting American Idol.

[Bobby Bones]

It's funny that you. You went bad in your head. In my head.

[Matt Castle]

I'm saying it's good for you, but.

[Bobby Bones]

You went bad for you.

[Matt Castle]

You're like, I'm moving to la. Cast. Sorry.

[Bobby Bones]

Definitely not doing that.

[Matt Castle]

Something's happening. Let's call.

[Bobby Bones]

Something's happening. No, I would.

[Matt Castle]

Come on. Hey, we're on air right now, but tell me what's going on.

[Bobby Bones]

He. So he first called at like 20 minutes into the podcast. And I just made a quick video and sent it to show him. We were in the middle of recording. He called again at 50 minutes into it, and then he just called again and said, call me after.

[Matt Castle]

Ooh, there's something juicy on the other end of this.

[Bobby Bones]

I feel like it ain't good.

[Matt Castle]

Do you get excited? Do you like, kind of?

[Bobby Bones]

No. Everything about my life is I associate with, hey, call me after to be. Call me after because I have bad news.

[Matt Castle]

Yeah, that's probably the route that I usually go. If you've called me three times, something happened.

[Wasabi Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. So I feel like it's probably not the best call coming, but, like, how.

[Matt Castle]

Bad could it be? Did you do anything when you're all hooped up on Mountain Dew for your foot surgery that we just need to know about or you don't really remember?

[Bobby Bones]

I don't think so.

[Matt Castle]

I don't think so. I hope not.

[Bobby Bones]

I don't think so.

[Matt Castle]

You're like wolf of Wall street when he takes the Quaaludes and driving down the street. No, I totally got home fine. Honey, here's your ice cream.

[Bobby Bones]

So I guess I'll call him. That's it. Thank you very much.

[Matt Castle]

Thank you.

[Bobby Bones]

Thanks again to Vernon Davis for coming on. That's Matt Castle. That's Kickoff. Kevin. That's Brandon Ray. I'm Bobby Bones. And I gotta call my agent. But we've had lots to say. Goodbye, everybody. Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle is a production of the NFL and iHeart podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

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[Vernon Davis]

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[Matt Castle]

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[Vernon Davis]

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[Matt Castle]

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[Vernon Davis]

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[Matt Castle]

Hey, everybody.

[Wasabi Ad Voice]

Daniel Jeremiah here.

[Liberty Mutual Alternate Ad Voice]

And I'm Bucky Brooks.

[Wasabi Ad Voice]

On Move to six, we take you inside the game. From breaking down college prospects and NFL.

[Liberty Mutual Alternate Ad Voice]

Rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching.

[Matt Castle]

Trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters.

[Wasabi Ad Voice]

We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

[Matt Castle]

It's everything you need to understand understand the why behind what happens on Sundays.

[Wasabi Ad Voice]

Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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I'm Marcus Grant.

[Wasabi Ad Voice]

And I'm Michael F. Florio, and together.

[Matt Castle]

We host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast.

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Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season?

[Bobby Bones]

Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football.

[Matt Castle]

Podcast, your old ultimate source for player news, draft tips and winning strategies.

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Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to.

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Help you crush your opponents.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lowe's Ad Voice]

The NFL is rolling. That's right, and you should be listening to NFL Daily as we march along to Super Bowl 60. It's in the name NFL Daily, so you'll have fresh content in your feed all season long. Join me, Greg Rosenthal and an all star cast of co hosts for previews and recaps of every single game. NFL Daily will keep you up to date with everything you need to know so you can sound smarter than all your friends. Listen to NFL Daily on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Matt Castle]

Hey, you got 10 minutes. Then you've got time for the new podcast, 10 takes with Kyle Brandt. Every Monday, I give you 10 takes from the NFL, from the world, from.

[Bobby Bones]

The universe, and I give them to.

[Matt Castle]

You in just 10 minutes. I guarantee you will learn something.

[Bobby Bones]

And you may.

[Matt Castle]

I'm telling you, you may just have the best time you've ever had listening to a podcast. It could be a crazy play. I'm talking about a funny quote. It could be how I hate child car seats and I don't know how to install them. Listen to 10 takes on the iHeartRadio app app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bobby Bones]

This is an I Heart podcast.