MORGAN: Hot Takes & Heartbreaks: Welcome to Friendship Rehab

Summary

Podcast Title: The Bobby Bones Show
Host/Author: Premiere Networks
Episode: MORGAN: Hot Takes & Heartbreaks: Welcome to Friendship Rehab
Release Date: June 1, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Bobby Bones Show, host Morgan Kielsbank engages in a profound discussion with Sabrina the Friendship Coach, delving into the intricacies of modern friendships. The conversation explores why friendships evolve over time, the pain of friendship breakups, the myth of low maintenance friendships, and actionable strategies for building and maintaining meaningful connections.

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Evolving Friendships: Intentionality and Life Changes

Key Discussion Points:

• Intentional Effort Declines with Age: As individuals grow older, factors like marriage, parenthood, and career demands often lead to decreased intentionality in maintaining friendships.

  “When you grow up with your friends, you're in the same environment... What ends up happening as we grow older is life happens. Marriage, kids, work... and we forget to put intention and more effort into keeping up with our friends.” — Dan Flores [04:53]

• Changing Needs and Compatibility: Friendships that once thrived in shared environments (e.g., school or college) may struggle as personal interests and life circumstances diverge.

  “We grow. We want different types of friends and it's okay to want different things. And we want and hope that our friends grow with us at least, like that's the goal.” — Dan Flores [09:04]

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The Pain of Friendship Breakups

Key Discussion Points:

• Emotional Impact: Friendship breakups can be more emotionally taxing than romantic breakups due to societal expectations that friendships are lifelong.

  “Friendship breakups are honestly, in my opinion, more painful than any romantic relationship breakup ever.” — Dan Flores [10:43]

• Reasons for Breakups: Common causes include drifting apart due to life changes, toxic behaviors, and issues like ghosting or quiet quitting friendships.

  “Sometimes it's just pure growth. Sometimes you just drift apart... Other parts of it can be harsh and cruel.” — Dan Flores [10:43]

• Self-Doubt and Trauma: Experiences like bullying can shape one’s approach to friendships, making it harder to trust and build new connections.

  “When you see your friends trickle away, it kills a little bit of your girlhood inside. And it makes you feel like, am I good enough? Am I worthy?” — Dan Flores [13:33]

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Debunking Low Maintenance Friendships

Key Discussion Points:

• Misconception of Low Maintenance: The term "low maintenance friendships" is often misunderstood as merely maintaining contact without deeper effort. However, Sabrina argues that this concept can be misused to avoid emotional responsibility.

  “When I ask them what is a low maintenance friendship to you? Everything they bring back to me is things that I would consider a normal friendship.” — Dan Flores [21:33]

• Authentic Maintenance vs. Manipulation: Genuine friendship maintenance involves consistent communication tailored to both friends' comfort levels, whereas the "low maintenance" label can enable manipulative behaviors.

  “It's about just having conversations with your friends as life grows on... and we are all too busy for that [24:44].” — Dan Flores [24:12]

• Equal Effort: Friendships should not be categorized as low or high maintenance but should instead focus on mutual effort and balance.

  “Friendship should be equal. It's a balancing game. And if you're low and the other one's high, then there's a power struggle.” — Dan Flores [24:12]

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Building and Maintaining Meaningful Friendships

Key Discussion Points:

• Setting Standards: Clearly define what you seek in a friend, similar to how you would in a romantic relationship. This involves understanding your non-negotiables and ensuring potential friends align with these values.

  “Figure out your standards, figure out your non negotiables before you get into a long term friendship with someone that you don't know.” — Dan Flores [31:58]

• Active Engagement: Engage in activities and environments that align with your interests to naturally meet like-minded individuals.

  “You have to show up, go to places that you want to go to, be consistent about it... you're going to find quality people.” — Dan Flores [37:38]

• Consistent Communication: Maintain regular, yet not overwhelming, communication that suits both parties' schedules and preferences.

  “It's just about having consistent frequency of communication.” — Dan Flores [04:53]

• Embrace Vulnerability: Be open to forming deep connections by sharing experiences and supporting each other through both good and bad times.

  “Be open to it and be willing to create a new friend because you were just always in this space that you can never have enough friends.” — Sabrina the Friendship Coach [36:14]

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Hot Takes on Friendship Dynamics

1. Prioritizing Friends Outside Romantic Relationships

Discussion:

• Maintain Individual Relationships: Even when in a romantic relationship, it’s crucial to nurture friendships independently to ensure a balanced social life.

  “If you are in a relationship, you should always make time with your friends outside of that relationship... you can have a life outside of your partner, with your friends.” — Sabrina the Friendship Coach [25:41]

2. Being Present in Both Good and Bad Times

Discussion:

• Comprehensive Support: True friends are present not only during hardships but also in moments of joy and success, fostering a well-rounded and supportive relationship.

  “Show up for both [good and bad times]. If you're not there in any other time of my life, but this is the only time, why?” — Sabrina the Friendship Coach [27:07]

3. Accountability and Communication Over Ghosting

Discussion:

• Avoid Ghosting: Ghosting undermines trust and accountability in friendships. Instead, open communication is essential, even when deciding to part ways.

  “Ghosting is never a good thing... Only time it’s okay is if you've taken a lot of effort to really try and put into something and it's just not being heard.” — Sabrina the Friendship Coach [42:11]

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Final Thoughts and Advice

Key Takeaways:

• Self-Worth and Boundaries: Recognize your own value and set healthy boundaries to ensure friendships are mutually respectful and fulfilling.

  “Each one of us should know that we are enough and we're never asking for too much. We're women. We can do it all... why not friendships?” — Dan Flores [44:16]

• Active Participation: Building meaningful friendships requires active participation, vulnerability, and a willingness to invest time and effort.

  “You actually have to put yourself out there and go and do life, be living life and to just be open to it.” — Sabrina the Friendship Coach [36:14]

• Embrace Growth: Understand that it's natural for friendships to evolve or end as individuals grow, and embrace these changes as part of personal development.

  “We tend to not have these conversations, unfortunately.” — Dan Flores [06:53]

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Conclusion

This episode of The Bobby Bones Show provides valuable insights into the dynamics of modern friendships. Through candid discussions and expert advice, Morgan and Sabrina highlight the importance of intentionality, effective communication, and mutual respect in fostering lasting and meaningful relationships. Whether navigating the challenges of friendship breakups or debunking myths surrounding low maintenance friendships, listeners are equipped with the knowledge and strategies to cultivate healthier and more fulfilling friendships.

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Notable Quotes:

• “Friendship breakups are honestly, in my opinion, more painful than any romantic relationship breakup ever.” — Dan Flores [10:43]

• “It's about just having conversations with your friends as life grows on... What is a good communication frequency for you?” — Dan Flores [07:04]

• “Low maintenance friendships... it's just maintaining the friendship as you should.” — Dan Flores [21:33]

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Timestamp References:

• [04:53] - Discussion on intentional effort in friendships.
• [09:04] - Changing needs and compatibility in friendships.
• [10:43] - Emotional impact of friendship breakups.
• [21:33] - Debunking the concept of low maintenance friendships.
• [25:41] - Prioritizing friends outside romantic relationships.
• [27:07] - Being present in both good and bad times.
• [31:58] - Setting standards in friendships.
• [36:14] - Building and maintaining meaningful friendships.
• [42:11] - Accountability and communication over ghosting.
• [44:16] - Final advice on self-worth and boundaries.

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting key discussions and providing actionable insights for listeners seeking to improve their friendships.

Transcript

[Dan Flores]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide and every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it's It Pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and safeway now through June 24th. Score hot summer savings and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags on items like Pringles, Ritz crackers and chips, sliced soda, Wonder Buns and bread, and Natural Choice lunch meat. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery sub to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.

[Dan Flores]

Why is a soap opera Western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

Listen to the American west with Dan.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan Flores]

Take this Personally with Morgan Kielsbank.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

Y' all remember that song I Need a Little help from my friends. Well, that's what this next series is all about. This week we're talking to Sabrina the Friendship Coach. She's sharing why friendship heartbreak hurts something bad and why low maintenance friendships really aren't a thing. Then next week, my best friends from over a decade joined. We recorded the episode when they were visiting Nashville on our yearly bestie trip. And one of them is my friend who I made via a guy we were both dating at the same time, which is the story for next week. So let's get into this chat with Sabrina. We've talked about a lot of friendships on this podcast and I've had many of my friends on. But I think where this friendship coach really excels is her bluntness and honesty for what happens in friendship and that's why I'm bringing her on. Hi Sabrina, thanks for joining me.

[Dan Flores]

Hi, thanks for having me. I'm super excited to be on your podcast.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

I love your content. It's so fun to watch because I think there's so many different spaces within the friendship world when it comes to the coaches, and I really do believe where your bread and butter is, being brutally honest and telling us the things that we need to hear.

[Dan Flores]

I try not to be brutally honest. I try to be as kind as possible with the truth, or at least like my opinion of how I see things. But, yeah, I'm not trying to, like, hurt anyone's feelings.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

But, no, brutally honest is a good thing. We're at a time and place right now where sometimes tough love is necessary, and I really feel like in the space that friendships are right now across the board is we're in some desperate need of some tough love.

[Dan Flores]

I think so too, to be honest.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

See, and this is what we're talking about. And it's interesting because I do have an incredible group of friends. I have wonderful friends who have kept up and done all the right things and they've maintained for several years, some even decades. But as you get older, I'm 31 now. Time changes, things happen, and life gets different, and especially when it comes to friendships. So why is that? What's happening with friendships as we get older?

[Dan Flores]

I think it's part of it is intentionality dwindles. When you grow up with your friends, you're in the same environment, you're in proximity, whether that's school, school, whether that's like, different hobbies or college. What ends up happening as we grow older is life happens. Marriage, kids, work, all of these, like, life moments, and we forget to put intention and more effort into keeping up with our friends. We can't. We coasted as kids just having people there, but we forget that we actually need to put in a little bit more effort when it comes to our friends.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

And when you say put in more effort, I would love to paint this picture of what effort can look like in friendships because something that's a hot topic on social media right now is low maintenance friendships.

[Dan Flores]

Oh, no. You hit me where it hurt.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

I know. So we'll get into that a little bit further, but show me a little bit what effort may look like in friendships before we dive into that very spicy topic.

[Dan Flores]

Yes. I think we confuse effort with constant communication versus consistent communication. I think everyone's frequency of communication differs. So for me, it could be every two weeks. Reach out to me. Let's chat. For you, it could be every month, every two months, three months, whatever it is. And I think that these conversations need to be had with our friends where we have a consistent frequency of communication. So, for example, if me and you were friends. And we have this consistency of talking every month. Then if you don't end up reaching out every month, then I start to wonder if everything's okay with you. And that's when I would reach out and be like, hey, are you okay? I haven't heard from you in over a month. But what people tend to confuse is that, oh, we have to put in more effort where it's, oh, I have to be there for you 24 7. Which is not the case. No one's asking for that. We are all too busy for that. We're all too overwhelmed and stressed for that. So it's about just having conversations with your friends as life grows on, as they have kids or whatever the vibe is. What is a good communication frequency for you? Do you want us to keep up? And I know that sounds redundant, but you know what we have to schedule our friends in. It's like those text messages that we have with our friends. Hey, when are you free? I'm free in March. I'm free in May. I'm free in April. But it's the same thing where it's like, hey, what kind of frequency do you want? Two weeks, once a month? What it. What is it that you want? For us to keep this going. And we tend to not have these conversations, unfortunately.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

What's funny, we like to be communicators, but then we don't communicate our needs and our desires. Very common. It is awkward in a way, right? Because friendships we don't see in the same capacity as romantic relationships for some reason. But in romantic partnerships, you have these conversations or you should be of, this is what I need. These are what will keep me happy in this partnership. So why would that be any different in a friendship that was once a stranger and who's now not a stranger? It's not same kind of thing. You're just having a different type of love.

[Dan Flores]

It's true. And I know that is also a hot topic because a lot of us talk about it's a platonic relationship. It's not as significant as a romantic one. But for me, at least from my opinion, whether it's romantic or platonic friendship is the basis. Yes, there's more when it comes to romantic relationship, But I think the basis of it is that basic communication that you do with your partner, you should also do with your friends and whoever else is in your vicinity. Like, it's the same with coworkers and your boss. Like, you have to communicate, unfortunately, in order to keep that relationship going.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

It's funny One of my newer friends that I've made as an adult, I really feel a different type of connection to her because we, and we've had this conversation a few times where we're like, we've never had a friend who just would look out for us in this way or take pictures of us. That was one thing that we both notice is we want to take pictures of each other all the time. And we always felt like we were in friendships that were super one sided in that that we were both performing a certain way and the other friend wasn't. And it was this kind of realization for both of us, especially at this point in our life where, huh, that shouldn't be happening for the first time, but it is. Do you see that happen often when you're talking to people as they get older and just understanding the things that they want out of friendships more?

[Dan Flores]

Yes. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the things that we wanted in our younger years is not the same things that we want in our adult years. And that's the same when it comes to friendships. We grow. We want different types of friends and it's okay to want different things. And we want and hope that our friends grow with us at least, like that's the goal. But unfortunately, sometimes it's looking at it from an outside lens and realizing that we're not as compatible as we used to be. And that's okay. Maybe at this point in time we need to go our separate ways. Maybe we'll find each other in the later years, but sometimes it can hurt. It's not the greatest situation to be.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

In when you mentioned that. And something that really hurts in friendships is the friendship breakup that happens. It's super painful and I don't think it gets enough credit for how hard it is. There's been friends over the course of my life who I've lost, whether they got into relationships or marriages. And they just stopped being the friend that I once had. And naturally, because I was wanted a very solid friendship that moved away and it didn't happen anymore because they weren't the person that when we first became friends, they couldn't provide that anymore for whatever reason. And it was really painful. And there's still moments where it's really painful and you really miss them and you just want to talk to them. But you also have to have this level of respect for yourself. So can we dive into the friendship breakup?

[Dan Flores]

Well, friendship breakups are honestly, in my opinion, more painful than any romantic relationship breakup ever. And it's probably because we've never been taught how to handle a friendship breakup. Like when it comes to romantic relationships, we all know, okay, we're going into it, we're seeing if this person's compatible with us, we're seeing if they're long term. And we know eventually there's going to be a breakup and if ever. But when it comes to friends, we think to ourselves, they're going to be in our life forever until we grow old and we're in wheelchairs. But it's. It's like a difficult place to be when you're going through that because sometimes it's just pure growth. Sometimes you just drift apart because you're in different lifes, life cycles and you're going one way, they're going another way and there's no animosity there. It's just like life happens and we have to drift apart and we can't keep holding on for dear life when it's not working. Other parts of it can be harsh and cruel. Where I've heard a lot of clients tell me about friends that have done terrible things like sleeping with their fiances and just horrible things. So that's also like part of it and I think also another portion of it that's been become very relevant is quiet quitting friendships or ghosting. I'm not a fan of it. I would only say it's okay to do that if you're in danger. If you've attempted to communicate with somebody over and over again and they just continue to disrespect you. Yeah. Then cut them off. But I've seen a lot of friendships where people see their friends, like their toys and play with them, enjoy them for a good little amount of time, and then discard them and ghost and don't say anything and you feel icky. Wow. This person was all excited to be my friend and now suddenly I don't hear from them. They've thrown me away. And then sometimes when you confront that, you get the narrative of, oh, I don't owe you anything. And that really sucks. That really sucks.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

Yeah. There's so many different painful steps to that friendship breakup. To your point, there's just many different levels and none of them get easier. Especially even with time. You think as you get older, you just. And you learn. I don't feel like they've ever gotten easier. Even, especially as an adult, I feel like it's more painful because when you watch your circle get smaller, you know that it's important because you're getting these quality friendships but watching it get smaller feels like you have to grieve an entire life that's ending.

[Dan Flores]

Yeah. And it's also, you second guess yourself too, because as you. You grow up, I, at least I know in our femininity and with womenhood, our friends make up a big part of that. And when you see your friends trickle away, it kills a little bit of your girlhood inside. And it makes you feel like, am I good enough? Am I worthy? All these friends just keep leaving and disappearing. Is there something wrong with me? And it's a very difficult place to be in when you start to feel that way.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

And I can also speak from an experience of some trauma. When I was in high school, I was bullied by girls who were once my friends. And that experience in high school really dictated how friendships looked for me for a really long time. So do you see some clients come in who have trauma like this? And building friendships just becomes an increasingly harder situation than just your day to day life?

[Dan Flores]

Oh, yes. And I can relate to that very much. Having your best friend be your bully, not the greatest experience. But I think we're also taught in society in the shows that we grow up when that having that toxic best friend and no matter what they do, you still have to be best friends with them at the end. Take Gossip Girl, for example. It's like Serena and Blair are best friends, but they're horrible to each other. They do horrible things, sabotage, gossip, go behind each other's backs and just stab each other, like, figuratively, of course.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

And then you have mean girls where they push each other in front of buses. So there's that too.

[Dan Flores]

Allegedly.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

Allegedly.

[Dan Flores]

But we grow up watching this, and then it's subconsciously drilled into our heads that we have to tolerate bad behaviors from our friends. And then when we grow older, we start to realize, oh, we shouldn't be doing that. And it becomes like this thing where we're fighting ourselves. We're building standards for ourselves. We don't want to accept bad behavior from people anymore, whether it's romantic or friendship. And then we're fighting ourselves because we've been taught to accept everyone's flaws and taught to accept all these bad behaviors. So where's the line? And that's what I'm trying to teach here.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

Yeah. And it is because so much of my relearning experience from high school and dealing with these friends who I had sleepovers with, and we talked to each other about everything to one day just flipping on a dime and saying horrible things and doing horrible things, to me that I had to teach myself a new pattern of friendship. And as a 16 year old girl to 18 to then in her early 20s and joining a sorority in college, the emotional ways that my brain went through having friends was just beyond me. Like, I look back at a time in my life and I'm like, how did I even do that? Because my brain was genuinely trying to develop. At the same time I was being rejected and bullied. And then also okay, by the way, you have to throw yourself into an completely new city and make new friends while trusting that they're actually going to be kind to you and not do the same thing to you again.

[Dan Flores]

True. That's a lot of us are experienced too. Same thing in college. Same, same thing. It's learning who you are. You don't know who you are, you don't know anything about yourself. And then on top of that, trying to figure out romantically who you like, hoping that that person's not toxic, then trying to figure out friendships and yeah, dealing with friends that are mean to you and bullied to you, but at the same time trying to find good long term friendships and it's very overwhelming.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and safeway. Now through June 24th. Score hot summer savings and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags on items like Starbucks ground coffee, Red Bull energy drinks, Spam, Classic Planet oat milk, Charmin bath tissue, Totino's pizza rolls and Frito Lay chips. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for easy drive up and go. Pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit albertsons or safeway. For more details.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all, his wife, Caroline.

[Dan Flores]

He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community.

[Dan Flores]

She said you left bruises, pulled her.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

Hair, that type of thing.

[Dan Flores]

No.

[Andrea Gunning]

How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done?

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future.

[Andrea Gunning]

This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception. Lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy Robach]

Amy Robach and TJ Holmes. Here, Diddy's former protege, television personality, platinum selling artist Danity King. Alum Aubrey o' Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Aubrey o' Day is sitting next to us. Here you are as we sit here right up the street from where the trial is taking place.

[Dan Flores]

Place.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Some people saw that you were going to be in New York and they immediately started jumping to conclusions. So can you clear that up? First of all, are you here to testify in the Diddy trial? Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise based on her firsthand knowledge from her days on making the band as she emerged as the breakout star. The truth of the situation would be opposite of the glitz and glamour.

[Andrea Gunning]

It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there.

[Amy Robach]

Listen to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O' Day covering the Diddy trial on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

Do you feel like this is why friendship gets the low on the totem pole because life is so overwhelming and then friendship, you just push to the side because it's the easy thing that you can always go after at another time. And it just keeps getting knocked down a few pegs because of this like process of us being so overwhelmed with life.

[Dan Flores]

I think yes and no. But I also think that we've been conditioned to prioritize other things in our life and we've also been conditioned that boys may come and go, but friends are forever. So you sit there waiting for your friend to come back around and it's just a waiting game and you start to tolerate behaviors that you would not accept anywhere else. So yeah, when things are convenient, people put it in the back burner. They forget about it because you'll always be there at the end of the day.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

And this now leads me into the hot topic of low maintenance friendships. So give me your hot take. Low maintenance friendships we're seeing all over the Internet. People are creating all kinds of reels about how they love their low maintenance friends.

[Dan Flores]

Oh my goodness. So a lot of the clients that I've had, also different people on TikTok that I've talked to about low maintenance friendships. When I ask them what is a low maintenance friendship to you? Everything they bring back to me is things that I would consider a normal friendship. And all you're doing is maintaining that friendship. You in order to gain a friendship, you need to have a basic foundation where you meet that person. You hang out for quite a while, you build, you start to get to know them, you start to love them, they love you. You hang out a lot, a lot of secrets are spilled. Live life with each other. And then time moves on and things change. And of course you can't be communicating all the time. No one's asking for 24 7, but you still keep up with your friends. Even if it's once a month. You're like, hey, how's it going? Let me text you, let me tell you about my day, let me tell you the news. And people are referring to that as low maintenance friendships. When I'm like, no, that's just maintaining the friendship as you should. That's just a friendship period. Like this whole narrative of low and high friendships is. It's confusing and it's confusing people. And it's also allowing a lot of manipulative people come in and take advantage of those terms where they come in and say, oh, I want a low maintenance friendship so that they don't have to put in work. It's a friendship on their terms. It's I show up whenever I need to show up, whenever it's convenient for me and you can't say anything because if you do, I'm going to call you high maintenance. And it's a power struggle. I don't think friendship should be leveled at low or high, it just should be equal. It's a balancing game. And if you're low and the other one's high, then there's a power struggle and you're probably not compatible and you probably shouldn't be friends. So there's no such thing as a low maintenance friendship. It's just a friendship that you are maintaining at a pace that you are comfortable with, that you and your friend have agreed upon and that's all it is. And the rest of it is just a way to avoid emotional responsibility, avoid accountability, and to shift the blame on somebody else. That's actually asking for consistency.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

That's all. That's a mic drop hot take. And I love it because I agree when you sit here and explain it that way. I agree because you think of a relationship and as you stay with a person, you get more comfortable with them and life becomes easy and communication becomes easy because you're used to this life of this person. The same thing is happening in friendships. But we're not calling relationships low maintenance relationships.

[Dan Flores]

No, no.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

But here we are doing it to friendships.

[Dan Flores]

It's because I guess it got skewed somewhere where it's Oh, I don't have to constantly be on top of my friend, which I think is good. That's healthy. Like, you're not supposed to be on top of your friend being like, hey, when are you texting me back? Why haven't you answered?

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

I think we have bigger problems there. Yes.

[Dan Flores]

And if you have to do that, maybe you need to revisit whether this friendship dynamic is good for you or not. Because if they're ignoring you, maybe we shouldn't be friends. That's all. But people that are friends, you don't have to talk every day. You just have to be consistently there for each other. No matter how that looks for your relationship, that's between you and that friend. And that's it.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

In here, we're going to continue some hot takes. I'm going to tell you a few thoughts that I have, and I want to know your opinion.

[Dan Flores]

Okay.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

If you are in a relationship, you should always make time with your friends outside of that relationship. Even if you hang out with that partner and your friend, you should also make time for solo time with your friend.

[Dan Flores]

Amen.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

Okay. Thank you.

[Dan Flores]

Reach.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

I feel like this is so important that I don't understand why I have to keep saying this, but you can have a life outside of your partner, with your friends.

[Dan Flores]

You should have a life outside your partner with your friend. And if you do not, then we need to talk about that some way somehow. Because if you're already your independent self before a man comes in, or whoever your preference is, you cannot just completely neglect your individual self and everything that makes you you, including your friends. Once the romantic box has been checked, this person cannot be your entirety. And I think that kind of happens way too much where we're striving so much to get married, to find the one. And then once we do, it's like, all right, now what? I don't have any friends because I didn't keep up with them. I don't have any individual self because I haven't taken care of myself. I don't have any hobbies. I don't know what to do. And then depression hits.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

It's a vicious cycle that we get into. So thank you. Hot take. Yes. We're on the same page. This other one is that you should be there for your friends, not just when times are very tough, but especially when times are very good.

[Dan Flores]

Yes.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

I think showing up for both is what makes a good friend, because there's this belief in my eyes that if all you can do is show up for the bad times, Are you here to see that I failed, or are you really here to be there for me? If you're not here in any other time of my life, but this is the only time, why. That's how I. That's how I view that. And then. But if you can show up for me in the good times and you're celebrating me like, I had a big party when I started this podcast with my friends. I did a big dinner, and everybody who showed up, I was so thankful because was it me getting married or having a baby or. No, it was me just creating a podcast. But I wanted to celebrate it because it was important to me. And they showed up and celebrated it like it was my birthday.

[Dan Flores]

I love that.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

See? And this is, like, my hot take, because I think a lot of people feel like when they have a friend who shows up in the dark times, that's a great friend. But I just. Do they also show up in both. So. Thoughts?

[Dan Flores]

Yes, 100%. I think they need to show up in both. Like, you cannot have a friend that only shows up for you in the darkest times, because sooner or later, they're conditioned to see you in your lowest point. And some people get a kick out of it. It sucks. But they get a kick out of watching someone have it worse than they do. And it sucks to realize that in a friend that you really love and care about. But you have to pay attention to whether they're there to celebrate you or not. And if they're not there to pull you out of the muck, clean you off, and then be like, you're out of there. Let's go get drinks. I don't think that's a good friend. And I think we agree on that.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

Yep. See, these are hot takes, though. And I don't. I just wish they weren't.

[Dan Flores]

Oh, I know.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

I don't understand why these are, like, controversial beliefs and friendships, but they are. And I think it's also really easy for things to get lost in life. And you just make sure, oh, my friend's going through it. I need to make sure I'm there. But you also need to make sure you're there in the mundane and the normal and also not forgetting about your friend when you decide to find a boyfriend or a girlfriend.

[Dan Flores]

Yes.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

I think those are reasonable asks of a friend.

[Dan Flores]

I think that's a reasonable ask. Yes.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

And speaking of these high value. Because you know what? We're putting this on high value friends. This is what high value friends do. You had done a content piece on social media where you're talking about the three behaviors of, of high value friends you should be looking for. And I'm so curious, like to detail what these are because when you are an adult, making friends is hard and finding the right friends is also hard. So what should we be looking for?

[Dan Flores]

I think you need to figure out exactly what you're looking for in a friend. Exactly what you're looking for. It's the same as you're looking for the one or your romantic partner. You have a list of, I want him to have this and I want this, I want this. Kind of the same with your friends. But the problem that we end up doing is we hang out with someone and we pick them because their vibe is cool. And we're like, oh, we mesh really well. They're my friend. And then whatever attributes or characteristics you have created in your head, that's a friend for me. For example, a friend to me is honest, accountable, loyal. So I pick someone, I'm like, they have a cool vibe. They're my friend. I automatically think to myself, oh, they have to be honest, loyal and accountable. Have they proven that to me? No. I just met this person, we just hung out a few times. Their vibe is cool. Okay, but do I know anything about the characteristics? No. And then later down the line, we end up finding out the hard way that this person's not honest and they're a little bit of a liar or they're disloyal, or they can't hold themselves accountable for anything. And then we go into a huge cycle of having to do the difficult thing, which is falling out of love with someone that you care about and having to remove them from your life, which is not easy. So I think it's a lot easier to start to vet your friends first. Figure out your standards, figure out your non negotiables before you get into a long term friendship with someone that you don't know.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

Yeah, that's really important. And it's also just a great tool to have for all your things in life. Know what you're going after, know what you want. It's something that you can use interchangeably for so many different things. So why should it be any different with friends? We really like to change the game when it comes to friendships.

[Dan Flores]

Yeah, I don't know, I don't know why. But also I'm trying to also change the narrative behind it's difficult to make friends. I don't think it's difficult to make friends. There are a lot of us out there that love to Talk about friendship that are looking for genuine friendship. Of course there are outliers, but I think it's also a mentality of how to go in it. If you're going into it with a desperate energy or with the mentality of it's really hard to make friends, you're gonna have a really hard time making friends. Or if you go into it saying, you know what? I know who I am. I know I'm a valuable friend, and whoever comes into my life and really wants to be my friend, not to be like too much, but they're blessed. And it's that thought process. And I had to do that myself. Moving to a new place and doing the bumble BFF thing, I was terrified. But then I was like, you know what? No, I've healed, I've grown. I know what I'm looking for, and I'm gonna go in it and be strategic. And I met a lot of good girls. I also met a lot of flaky girls. And nothing against them. I don't hate them. But it's like, you're not my cup of tea. That's okay. I'll go for the champagne. Over here.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and safeway. Now through June 24th. Score hot summer savings and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags on items like Pringles, Ritz crackers and chips, sliced soda, Wonder buns and bread, and natural choice lunch meat. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for easy drive up and go. Pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all, his wife, Caroline.

[Dan Flores]

He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community.

[Dan Flores]

She said you left bruises, pulled her.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

Hair, that type of thing.

[Dan Flores]

No.

[Andrea Gunning]

How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done?

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future.

[Andrea Gunning]

This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception. Lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy Robach]

Amy Robach and TJ Holmes Here Diddy's Former protege, television personality, platinum selling artist and Danity King alum Aubrey o' Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Aubrey O. Day is sitting next to us. Here you are. As we sit here right up the street from where the trial is taking place. Some people saw that you were going to be in New York and they immediately started jumping to conclusions. So can you clear that up? First of all, are you here to testify in the Diddy trial? Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise based on her first hand knowledge from her days on making the band. As she emerged as the breakout star. The truth of the situation would be opposite of the glitz and glamour.

[Andrea Gunning]

It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there.

[Amy Robach]

Listen to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O' Day covering the Diddy trial on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast cast.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of my experience, I was someone who moved to a new city, created an entire life for myself. And a lot of the questions that I always get are, how do you do it? How do you make friends? It's so hard. Here's all of this and so much of where I made friends and where I really thrived was one putting myself out there in the first place. It's just like with dating, you have to put yourself out there. I know we all want to meet people on our couch and that's how life works, but no, it's not. You actually have to put yourself out there and go and do life, be living life and to just be open to it, be open that a friend can come anywhere. It's how the friend that I mentioned who I made as a really good friend in the last year came from me trying out a new gym by myself. She was a trainer there and we would just talk every time I came in. And over the course of time I went through a bad breakup and she was like, let's go get a sandwich, you don't look like you've eaten very much. And from then on we became best friends. And that was so unexpected and not anything that I was looking for or needed, but I was open to it and I was willing to create a new friend because I was just always in this space that you can never have enough friends, you can never have enough love in your life. And so much of me being an adult and creating the life that I've created in a city that I didn't know a single soul is because of those two things.

[Dan Flores]

Oh, this is just such a beautiful story, honestly. And it's so true too. It's so true. You have to be open to finding friends. You can't tell yourself it's hard. I'm never going to find friends because you're going into it from a place of loneliness. And when your energy is in a place of loneliness, you're not really going to find quality people. You're going to get that type of energy back and it's not a good place to be. I think how to make new friends is like you said, you have to do things that you would normally do for yourself, hobbies. Like I met a girl through Pilates class and it was stupid. All I did was give her a towel. I was like, she's like looking around and I was like, do you need a towel? Yeah. Okay, I'll grab you one. Grabbed her a towel, gave her a towel, boom, we started talking. See, it can be that simple. You just have to show up, go to places that you want to go to be consistent about it. Because if you show up only once every six months, the people that are regulars aren't going to get to know you. Show up, be present, do the things that you like to do and you enjoy and you'll find like minded people.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

And you'll also find the spaces that maybe you don't want to be in. You might go and try a new place and be like, I've been doing this for a while and I just really can't quite seem to stick here. I feel like I should try something new. And you should. If that's the way that it feels, there's a reason for that.

[Dan Flores]

Yep, exactly. But that's also part of learning who you are and what you like. And it's the same when it comes to friends. You got to go out there, talk to a bunch of people, learn what you're looking for in a friend. And it. Just because you don't, they don't vibe with you or they're not your cup of tea, doesn't make them a bad person, doesn't make you a horrible person for not choosing them. It's just you need to find your people.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

That's all it is. It is. And I wanted to ask you because we did talk about hot takes a little bit, but. And I shared some of mine. I made you share one of yours about low maintenance. Do you have any other hot takes about friendship? Because I feel like, this is where it's fun. And so sometimes, again, we just need a little tough love.

[Dan Flores]

I feel like the basic ones we've hit. When it comes to friends ditching you for another romantic person, I don't think that's okay. I think also ghosting your friends, I don't think that's good behavior. You should not have to disappear for months at a time and then expect everything to be there and convenient for you. Once you decide, it's convenient for you to show back up. Sometimes just in friendships, just like in relationships, you got to do the hard things. If you're struggling, you need to communicate that your friends are not mind readers. They don't know what's going on in your head. And if you're really in a place where you're struggling, communicate that and give them the opportunity to support you, to help you through it so that you're not alone. But I tend to see a lot of it where people just ghost, disappear. Don't communicate. Their friends are texting them, like, hey, what's going on? You're not answering, like, are you okay? They don't hear anything. And then you pop back in, and you expect everything to be good and dandy. And then you're mad at them for being mad at you for disappearing. And it's a vicious cycle, and I don't think it's okay. And I think it's okay to hold your friends accountable if they're going through those ghosting spells. And, like, you wouldn't let a man back into your life if he's ghosted you for months. Why are you gonna allow that same treatment from your friends?

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

It is. Hey, ghosting is never a good thing. Honestly, it's one of the worst things we can do to people. And the only time I've ever approved of it is if you've taken a lot of effort to really try and put into something and it's just not being heard. You just have to back away sometimes and let life happen. And if you're supposed to have that conversation, then it'll come to fruition. But that's truly the only time where I'm like, it's okay if you need to disappear. Beyond that, we're adults. We're supposed to have conversations.

[Dan Flores]

Agreed. I think you can disappear. Go, no contact. If you're really in danger, this person's not okay. Do what you need to do to protect yourself. Or you've attempted to communicate on multiple occasions. You've attempted to set boundaries on multiple occasions. The person just doesn't want to change. They don't want to respect your boundaries, then it's okay to just end it. But at the end of the day, that's to me, is not ghosting, because ghosters tend to always come back.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

They do. They're on this little rotation of the earth cycle or something.

[Dan Flores]

To me, that's going. No contact. That's the end of a relationship. You're not going back to that person because you've had enough is enough. You had enough. But ghosters tend to. They get a high from disappearing and coming back and just having people that they pluck and having friendship on their terms. And I go back to people using people like their toys. Oh, I'm bored with this toy. Chuck. Let's use this truck.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

Apparently, we are into. We're in Toy Story. And who is the child that threw out all the toys?

[Dan Flores]

I don't know. The evil one. Was it him?

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

There was a few of them, and they just kept getting, like, discarded. So basically, we're discarded Toy Story toys.

[Dan Flores]

Horrible.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

I know it is. But you know what? The Toy Story toys have great lives, so that means that we can all also have good lives and make new friends. That's exactly what that means.

[Dan Flores]

Yes. And the discarded toys always end up getting saved and make great friendships.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

Yep, exactly. So life happens on the other side of it. This is what we're paying attention to. Sabrina, I'm so happy that you came on. I like to end the podcast with, whether it be a piece of advice, motivation, inspiration, or just something that maybe we didn't even get to in address and you just want to talk about it, but the platform I serve over to you and say end us on something that you'd like to end us on.

[Dan Flores]

Okay, let's see. Drumroll, please. Okay. I think that each one of us should know that we are enough and we're never asking for too much. We're women. We can do it all. Career, romantic relationships, family. We can do it all. Why not friendships? So we can have amazing friends in our life. We can have the career that we dream of. We can have the man that we dream of or whatever our preference is, and we can honestly have it all. So don't think you're asking for too much, because you're not. You're just building the whole package for your life. And that's where I'm gonna end it.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

I love it. See, this is why we turn it over, because it's always a fun little thing to end on. So, Sabrina, thank you for joining me. Thanks for sharing your expertise and taking some time to hang out.

[Dan Flores]

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

[Sabrina the Friendship Coach]

Tough love is important and this episode feels like it reminded us all what we deserve in every relationship in our lives, but particularly with friendships. So go out today and be a good friend. Call or send a text to that friend who means everything to you. And as always, I'm so happy you're here. I can't wait for you all to hear the girl chat incoming next week. Love you.

[Dan Flores]

Bye.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway, now through June 24. Score hot summer savings and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags on items like Pringles, Ritz crackers and chips, sliced soda, Wonder Buns and bread, and Natural Choice lunch meat. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for easy drive up and go. Pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.

[Dan Flores]

Why is a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

Listen to the American west with Dan.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan Flores]

I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1 Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1 Taser incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan Flores]

This is an I heart podcast.