MORGAN: Integrative Health with Cara Clark & Body Image Resilience With Lindsay Kite

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Bobby Bones Show Episode: MORGAN: Integrative Health with Cara Clark & Body Image Resilience With Lindsay Kite
Release Date: March 9, 2025
Host: Morgan Huelsman
Guests: Cara Clark (Integrative Nutritionist & Wellness Educator) and Lindsay Kite (Co-author of More Than a Body)

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Segment 1: Integrative Health with Cara Clark

Introduction and Personal Journey

Morgan Huelsman kicks off the episode at [01:42] by introducing Cara Clark, an integrative nutritionist and wellness educator with expertise in integrative health, blood chemistry, sports, and clinical nutrition. Cara shares her transition from being a college athlete to facing challenges related to disordered eating, primarily due to the constant weigh-ins by her coach.

Cara Clark [08:28]: "It wasn't like binging or bulimia or anything like that. It was more like what they would call orthorexia, like overly working out and overly calculating calories and stuff like that."

Cara discusses how her disordered eating was not typical but stemmed from the pressures of maintaining athletic performance and the cultural emphasis on appearance after moving from Oklahoma to California.

Cara Clark [11:04]: "The second I got pregnant, I was like, it's not about me anymore. And that was what healed me."

Integrative Nutrition Philosophy

Cara elaborates on her integrative approach, which goes beyond traditional nutrition by incorporating elements from Ayurvedic and Chinese medicine to address the root causes of health issues rather than merely treating symptoms.

Cara Clark [19:53]: "If the body’s hard to digest, it's going to take energy to do it. So the energy is towards digestion and not healing."

She emphasizes the importance of foundational support in nutrition, recommending a minimal number of supplements to ensure accessibility and effectiveness for her clients.

Cara Clark [24:00]: "Most of the time when people are coming to me... they're loaded up with supplements and they have all kinds of gut issues."

Balancing Business and Personal Health

Cara shares her experiences juggling a demanding business and motherhood, which led to significant health issues due to chronic stress and neglecting her own well-being. Her journey into integrative health was fueled by the necessity to heal herself while managing her responsibilities.

Cara Clark [27:02]: "I'm helping my clients... but I have to stay straight and narrow on my choices."

Cara underscores the significance of prioritizing health and building routines that support her well-being, such as adhering to her food philosophy, exercising daily, and maintaining active movement throughout her day.

Cara Clark [30:52]: "I have a lot of movement... walking my kids to school, walking the dog."

Motivational Insights

Towards the end of her segment, Cara offers motivational advice, encouraging listeners to focus on how they feel rather than external metrics like weight or appearance.

Cara Clark [41:48]: "Tap into how you feel. How you can measure how you feel... If you feel good, change will come."

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Segment 2: Body Image Resilience with Lindsay Kite

Introduction and Background

At [44:04], Morgan introduces Lindsay Kite, one of the co-authors of More Than a Body, and her sister Lexi. Lindsay explains their shared journey as identical twins who studied female body image resilience, driven by their own experiences with societal body standards.

Lindsay Kite [47:35]: "Lexi and I both earned our master's and PhDs and we did really complementary research about the objectification of women."

Root Causes of Body Image Issues

Lindsay delves into the societal and cultural factors that contribute to poor body image among women, highlighting the role of media and patriarchy in perpetuating narrow and unrealistic beauty standards.

Lindsay Kite [53:11]: "Patriarchy... forces us to be objects... perfection that continues to be raised further and further out of reach."

She explains how media representation often showcases women through a male gaze, focusing on thinness, youth, and flawless appearances, which leads women to self-objectify and constantly strive for unattainable ideals.

Lindsay Kite [53:26]: "We learn to self-objectify and moderate everything we do through the lens of how do I look right now?"

Building Body Image Resilience

Lindsay introduces the concept of body image resilience, which goes beyond body positivity by encouraging a deeper reconnection with one's body as an instrument rather than an ornament. This approach emphasizes internal health indicators over external appearance.

Lindsay Kite [59:08]: "Your body is an instrument, not an ornament... honor your body as your home."

She outlines a model where individuals move from a state of normative discontent to building resilience against societal disruptions. This involves developing skills to respond positively to body image challenges without resorting to harmful coping mechanisms.

Lindsay Kite [65:39]: "We need to start from that standpoint that your body is your home, it's not your enemy."

Strategies for Retraining Body Image Perception

Lindsay offers practical strategies for listeners to retrain their perceptions of their bodies, such as building media literacy, curating social media feeds, and engaging in enjoyable physical activities that honor the body's functionality.

Lindsay Kite [73:57]: "Learn how your health and fitness really can be defined personally for you and how you can build that and grow it in ways that are really empowering."

She emphasizes choosing activities that bring joy and fulfillment rather than those that serve as punishments, fostering a healthier and more positive relationship with one's body.

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Key Takeaways

1. Holistic Health Approaches: Both Cara Clark and Lindsay Kite advocate for integrative and holistic approaches to health and body image, focusing on internal well-being rather than external appearances.

2. Impact of Societal Standards: Lindsay highlights how patriarchal and media-driven standards contribute significantly to poor body image among women, necessitating a shift towards resilience and self-acceptance.

3. Personal Growth and Resilience: Building resilience involves recognizing and addressing the root causes of body image issues, such as trauma and societal pressures, and developing strategies to maintain a positive self-image despite external challenges.

4. Practical Strategies: Implementing foundational health practices, prioritizing self-care, and engaging in meaningful physical activities are crucial for maintaining both physical health and a positive body image.

5. Motivation and Purpose: Finding personal motivation and restructuring priorities can help individuals stay committed to their health and wellness goals, even amidst the chaos of daily life.

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Notable Quotes

• Cara Clark [11:04]: "The second I got pregnant, I was like, it's not about me anymore. And that was what healed me."

• Lindsay Kite [53:11]: "Patriarchy... forces us to be objects... perfection that continues to be raised further and further out of reach."

• Lindsay Kite [65:39]: "We need to start from that standpoint that your body is your home, it's not your enemy."

• Cara Clark [41:48]: "Tap into how you feel. How you can measure how you feel... If you feel good, change will come."

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Bobby Bones Show, Morgan Huelsman engages in profound discussions with Cara Clark and Lindsay Kite, exploring the depths of integrative health and body image resilience. Both guests provide valuable insights and actionable strategies for listeners to cultivate a healthier relationship with their bodies, emphasizing the importance of internal well-being over societal standards. The episode serves as a compelling guide for anyone seeking to empower themselves through holistic health practices and a resilient body image.

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Transcript

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[Morgan Huelsman]

Take this personally with Morgan Huelsman this week we are focused on the body and all in good ways. Nothing to be concerned about. I'm hoping this episode empowers you to do things that are helpful for you and your body. First, I'm bringing on Kara Clark, who is an integrative nutritionist and wellness educator in integrative health, blood chemistry and sports and clinical nutrition. She's going to share her story of how she got into this line of work and how she balances health and wellness in her home as a mom of four girls. And she's going to share a lot of her perspective on the health industry and how she's helping people understand their bodies better. Then I'm bringing on Lindsay Kite. She's one of the co authors on the book More Than a Body and has a PhD in the subject matter. We will talk about body image resilience, why body positivity is more than a movement, and how your body is an instrument, not an ornament. Super excited this week to be joined by Kara Clark. We were just talking about our love for the Midwest for both Midwest girls Hi, Kara, how are you?

[Kara Clark]

I'm. Hi. I'm good. How are you?

[Morgan Huelsman]

I'm doing good. Thanks for joining me and being on here. Beyond you being a Midwest girly along with me, you are also an integrative nutritionist and wellness educator. You've done all types of clinical nutrition. You're just telling me how you were an athlete in college and now you, you have a book coming out. So walk me through your story a little bit, how you got to the path that you're on.

[Kara Clark]

Yeah, first of all, I love the name of your podcast. I think it's really cute and catchy and I don't know, I'm excited to share. Personal things.

[Morgan Huelsman]

That's where we're going to go with this. We get, we get things. We really want people to take this personally. There's a reason for that title.

[Kara Clark]

When I listen to podcasts, I like want to know about people because I can find what they teach on their website or whatever. But I'm like, how'd you get there? I love that.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Well, and it gives background to who you are. Like, you're telling me what you want me to know, but why should I listen to you?

[Kara Clark]

Right. Exactly. What is your experience? Because, you know, everybody has a story. And you know, ironically, when I was getting into nutrition, it was still really fitness based, human calculator, so to speak, calories in, calories out, Very calorie oriented, very number oriented. And everybody had this big weight loss testimony. And I was a college athlete, so I did not have a weight loss testimony. I had issues with weight weight because my coach weighed us every two weeks. That's another story that led me into more of a disordered eating path. So when I found myself in a path that like, I lost a little bit of control, I had to reevaluate what did I want for my own life? And like, how do I reach people who are in this phase? Because this is hard. I don't want to, I didn't want to do that. I'm a faith based person. I didn't want to offend God and hurt my temple, so to speak. So, yeah, 22, I started credentials to become a certified nutritionist. But it was partly because in basketball and college, I, I knew like that level of performance was achievable, but nobody could guide me on how to get there. I had to discover it on my own. I was always sick during playoffs. Like, immune system breakdown. Why is my immune system breaking down? What am I supposed to be eating? Everybody's drinking Gatorade and It hurts my stomach.

[Morgan Huelsman]

You're having these chronic issues.

[Kara Clark]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And chronic issues are something that often isn't talked about or Right. Able to be discovered in traditional medicine because they're invisible.

[Kara Clark]

Back then, 17 years ago, people wanted this visible breakthrough, a weight loss.

[Morgan Huelsman]

How do we easily fix this?

[Kara Clark]

Yeah, how do you easily fix it for sure? So my thought process, when I created my business, which, you know, this will tell you a little bit. So since we're taking it personally, I decided to start my own business officially. Right when I got married without telling my new husband.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Oh, gosh. Okay, what was that like?

[Kara Clark]

And by the way, I was pregnant.

[Morgan Huelsman]

A lot happening in there. And now you're a mom of four girls, which again, it just seems like there's this thing that has happened with you in your life where there's always been a lot happening there.

[Kara Clark]

Always. Chaos is normal. I'm one of eight from the Midwest, like we talked about, so chaos has been normal for me, which is ironic because a couple of my breakdowns in my body were because of stress, but not because I was more stressed, because I never dealt with the stress at hand. So, yeah, got married, got pregnant on our honeymoon. Even though I text my mom from the Dominican asking her if I was fertile on day nine or whatever and she said I wasn't.

[Morgan Huelsman]

She said you weren't, but she was. Did you already know at this point or.

[Kara Clark]

No, I had no idea. Like, I only just started tracking like fertility and stuff when. Right when I was getting married. I didn't think anything of it. So yeah, I was fine though. Like, I wanted to be a mom my whole life. I. I could have skipped the wedding. That wasn't for me. I wanted to be a mom. But yeah, I never said to my husband, do you care if I quit my well paying job to start my own business? It was just like, hey, by the way.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And what was the well paying job?

[Kara Clark]

I was working at a law firm. I was like running a department I shouldn't have been running only because I was in Orange County. Did I get the job back the way I looked.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Okay. Wild but also crazy. Jump.

[Kara Clark]

Yes.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Athlete, nutrition stuff.

[Kara Clark]

You were broadcast journalism in college and.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Then you're working at a law firm and then you started your own business, which I'm assuming is this what you're doing now? Why? What was like, I need to start this business and leave this job.

[Kara Clark]

The urgency to heal my own disordered eating. And that's what it always is. It's our own chronic issues that we want to heal from. Like I said, disordered eating is very invisible. And a lot of people don't go to the doctor to get a diagnosis, you know, but it controls your mind, it controls every part of your day, it controls your energy. And so when I was trying to figure out food, I wanted there to be a purpose involved and I wanted it to be providing energy. I thought as a performance athlete, everyone wants to perform on a daily basis. No, no way. Nobody wants to stop performing or not have energy. And so what I built into my philosophy was to help me get out of my eating disorder, but also give people purpose and performance in their everyday life. So I then I created my nutrition philosophy. So 17 years ago. I've stuck with it for 17 years, but I've added into my credentials.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah, you've evolved in a lot of that. For you, what did the disordered eating look like? Because that's another thing with it is it looks different for everybody.

[Kara Clark]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

So for you, what was that like?

[Kara Clark]

It wasn't like binging or bulimia or anything like that. It was more like what they would call orthorexia, like overly working out and overly calculating calories and stuff like that.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And was that because you had mentioned in the beginning of this a coach who was weighing you, was that part of this where all this started?

[Kara Clark]

I mean, I didn't weigh myself then, but I did move from Oklahoma to California. So looking a certain way felt like it was a high priority for a 22 year old.

[Morgan Huelsman]

A cultural shift.

[Kara Clark]

It's a huge culture shift. And yeah, I was just finding myself and like my identity outside of being a student athlete and going into the work world. I was broadcast journalism in college. I fully thought I would be like a sideline reporter until I found out what their lives looked like and their hours looked like and I knew I wanted a family. I met my husband like 5 weeks after I moved to California.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Oh, wow. Okay. And so what was that like to you're going through this, you had just made a big move. You just met your husband. Well, now husband, obviously he wasn't then, but what was that like for you? Like you were experiencing in your body as all of those things are happening?

[Kara Clark]

I've always been somebody who goes with the flow. What do they say? Ask forgiveness, not permission. That's kind of like the way I am and it's not something I think about. So I do have to apologize a lot. And I'm really good at apologizing. I can, you know, say things I didn't mean or whatever. But anyway, it Wasn't like this crazy experience, but I did know that for myself, I needed to feel right with God. And. And so actually it led me to this very adult spiritual experience that you don't realize when you're a kid that your worldview is just what you learn from your parents and your church and stuff, you know? And so when I was able to adopt that, I was like, oh, I can feel faith, and that feels good. And so I actually got with a spiritual director, and he told me, and I've shared this many times, but I feel like it's really powerful for people to hear. He said, if you count your. Or if you keep a prayer log, like you keep your food log, you'll be a saint.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Interesting.

[Kara Clark]

And that was, like, groundbreaking for me. I was like, oh, yeah, well.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And especially with your experiences that you had, and that probably was just such a powerful correlation for you.

[Kara Clark]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

So that was this shift then, into this world, the nutrition, wellness. How long did it take you to get your body back to the track that you would feel was healthy?

[Kara Clark]

The second I got pregnant, I was like, it's not about me anymore. And that was what healed me. And so for me, it was like circumstance when I don't know if that happens for everybody. I still didn't like being weighed while.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I was pregnant, understandably. So you're growing another human. Yeah, that comes with some territory.

[Kara Clark]

Yes. And I wasn't even somebody who gained a lot of weight being pregnant, but from the second I found I was pregnant, I was nurturing the baby. And I. That's when I really focused on my macros and not so much the calories, but, like, making sure I was getting the combination of carbs, fat, and protein every time I ate and eating real foods. So I was just really focused on nourishing the life growing inside of me and not really myself anymore. So being taken out of myself is how I healed.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah. And that makes sense. I don't think think it's uncommon to hear you talk to a lot of parents. And there's just a shift that happens, and it sounds like for you it was especially a shift in your health and wellness, but also what you are doing when it comes to nutrition and integrative health and stuff. It's kind of this. I don't want to say untapped market because people have been researching nutrition and diets for years, but the integrative health is just a little bit uncommon. It still is today as far as trying to really blend all things natural along with. With traditional medicine and Just finding the right flow for each individual person. So when you were getting into this, how are you, like, okay, how do I figure out how to do this for myself and then start to teach people about this? Because you don't have a lot of studying material, right?

[Kara Clark]

Yeah. And I wouldn't say I was integrative then. I was really focused on just nutrition.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Okay.

[Kara Clark]

And so learning how to be a nutritionist and help guide people on the energy of food and not so much like the calories of food, even though calorie is a measurement of energy. I started working with sororities all over Southern California because I knew they were probably battling the same thing that I was. And I trained them through boot camps, and then I taught them how to grocery shop on their budgets. So that gave me so much purpose. It also helped me understand, like, human behavior. So huge part of guiding anybody on anything wellness is understanding human behavior and being patient and, like, being a good listener. My husband might argue that I'm a good listener, but I'm really good listener for my clients.

[Morgan Huelsman]

That's different in clients versus marriage. We're walking different territories there. You were mentioning, too, how everybody's very different and the body's different for everybody, and you're talking about listening to your clients. How do you. When you get a client, what are some things that you're paying attention to about their lifestyle that's going to help you on the nutrition side of things?

[Kara Clark]

Yeah, that's a really good question and comprehensive question at that. I'll just start with saying why I became an integrative practitioner as well as an integrative nutritionist and not holistic and not functional.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Okay.

[Kara Clark]

Because I think, you know, there's naturopath, there's functional medicine doctors, there's Chinese medicine doctors. There's all these things. But I knew that at the root of people's food issues, they were coming most of the time. People were coming to me at the. In the early days. So in my 20s were weight loss or sports performance. I had a lot of people being referred to me for sports performance. That was always fun for me. My next health breakdown happened in my 30s when I was just burning the candle at both ends. I had four kids in five years. I was pregnant and nursing for seven. My business blew up, turned into a business. I thought it was a hobby. I was pursuing my passion. My husband was earning the money. And, you know, for seven years, it did not matter what I made. You know, I just got to pursue my passion. I got to be a mom. I Got to have the kids. And then overnight like I had this huge influx of people and I was like, okay. And I had, I was having my third child at that point. So I got a thousand emails in a day. I'm not even kidding.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Where did that come from?

[Kara Clark]

Orange county housewife.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Okay. You got mentioned on there.

[Kara Clark]

I got brought into the scene of celebrityism and I always avoided it, to be honest. And it was hard to avoid where I lived.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yep. Well, everybody there wants to be everybody.

[Kara Clark]

Everybody wants health help. Like it's just never ending in that area of the world. So overnight I had to build, I had to streamline something without any employees. So I built my challenge programs and those are seasonal. And then years later I built this membership, so. And I have this whole team of nine amazing women that do all the things. But anyways, while I was having kids and then running a full scale business, which I didn't necessarily intend for, I just, I really did just have always been the hardest worker. I know, but it really did just happen. Does that make sense?

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Kara Clark]

Like I didn't have this strategy in mind, but I worked my butt off.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah, you were doing the hard work and it just paid off. You just didn't realize it was going to happen in that quick.

[Kara Clark]

Right, right. It was literally that part was overnight. But they say overnight success takes 10 years and in that case it was eight.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah, it always does. There's always everybody wants to look at the moment that it happened, not all the years leading up to.

[Lindsay Kite]

Right.

[Kara Clark]

And it is crazy how in a blink of an eye like all that work paid off. But for me, I didn't have any intention of hiring a nanny or out like my motherhood. So to have grown a business as a mom and then years later deal with some health issues with one of my kids and got pretty sick myself because like you, I was waking up at 3:30 in the morning so that I could get my work done before my kids woke up and then I could get another three hour window while they took naps. So I had a beautiful structure of routine of sleep in my house. But I didn't realize like how much it was hurting me and how much it was hurting my nervous system and my adrenals and my cortisol. And you know, first my skin broke out. You know, I'm in my 30s, I'm like three years post nursing my fourth child. I should be like in my prime. Right. Like I did all the hard things and now I should be flowing, my skin started breaking out and then I Got really lean, like to the point where I couldn't put weight on. And then from like 33, 34, then I got insomnia. And I thought it was all spiritual. So I, like, did all the prayer work. I got the spiritual advisors again. For me, I always go spiritual first. And so I have acne, I have insomnia, I have nervous system issues. Like, I'm on the brink of feeling like death all the time. And I'm a nutritionist.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And you're like, I thought I'm doing all the right.

[Kara Clark]

I was invincible. Yeah, I ate right, I exercised, I did what I was told by the fitness industry and by my original credential. So I started working with a functional medicine doctor and a Chinese medicine doctor and started putting my body back together. Started to understand I had to. I mean, if I was going to take care of four kids all day and run a business, I had to optimize my sleep, not sleep less. So started putting the pieces back together and then exploring further. And the reason I became integrative rather than functional, quote unquote, which are similar, to be honest, I feel like functional tries to throw solutions at the problem, whereas I wanted this, like, root cause approach. So even years later, I still had some adrenal stuff coming up. Some, like, I was doing all the supplements. I was doing like 13 supplements a day. For some people. That doesn't sound like a lot, but I like my clients to be like five or under a day unless they're on a healing protocol. So for me, integrative is using Ayurvedic, which is ancient, 6,000 years old, like the original saunas and castor oil wraps and the Dosha body type and stuff like that. I like assessing the body with this ancient medicine in mind. I like exploring Chinese medicine. Like I said, Chinese circadian rhythm. They have this clock that helps us identify what organ systems might not be optimal based on the weakness in the time of day. So our sleep cycle, if we're waking up at a certain time every night, we can look into the Chinese circadian rhythm. So I use a little Chinese biomolecular is supplemental, but it's also therapeutics. It's botanicals and herbs and that kind of. So it's not just like vitamins and minerals. And I don't like to just supplement people based on their labs even either. I want to find the root cause and help the body be able to activate.

[Morgan Huelsman]

That's so hard to do too, because the root cause, you're like, I've learned the body's just kind of this onion that you're just constantly peeling back to be like, okay, what are we going to find out? What's next? We took care of this. Now, what's this?

[Kara Clark]

Well, and especially because I sounded so Midwest, especially.

[Morgan Huelsman]

It's okay.

[Kara Clark]

We like the Midwest especially because a lot of our root causes were brought to us by birth.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah.

[Kara Clark]

We came into the world with them. And so it's our normal.

[Lindsay Kite]

And so, you know any different?

[Kara Clark]

Yeah, you don't know any different. So about 33, 34, I did a bunch of integrative, functional work. And then around 38, I did a bunch of root cause stuff. And that really opened my eyes. Talk about peeling back the onion. You start to not relive, but see some of these, like, trauma experiences. Like, I started getting hives at eight. Why did I start getting hives at eight? Well, once I started addressing the root cause, I figured out why I started getting hives at eight.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Why?

[Kara Clark]

I'm not going to go there.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Okay.

[Lindsay Kite]

Okay.

[Kara Clark]

I mean, it's related to trauma. Right. Kids forget things. And your body, but your body doesn't. Your body does keep score. I love that saying, your body keeps score because it's so true. So when I started doing root cause, the. Through using bioenergetic medicine, and then I use quantum so light therapy, pimp therapy. Are these. Do you. Have you heard of these before?

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah, I'm just. See, I wasn't. I wasn't sure how far it went.

[Kara Clark]

I know. I mean, it goes pretty far. I won't get too far into it, but I like incorporating all of it because it depends on going back to the bio individuality of the person first. Like, what are their epigenetics, meaning their lifestyle practices. Now, can they be compliant with the food? Because I can do like a pull or a full pullback of all the food that they're eating and like, only put in food that their system can optimize with.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Interesting. Which would be super helpful for anybody.

[Kara Clark]

It's super helpful for anybody. I discovered it by working with autoimmune people. And then I'm like, so why doesn't this work with anybody Inflamed? Okay, it does. Like, this is a full body reset, and you're not restricting calories or food. You're restricting certain types of food that are harder for the body to digest. So if the body. If a food's harder for the body to digest, it's going to take energy to do it. So the energy is going towards digestion and not healing. So if we like really pull it back and we just put food in the body that can be used that's bioavailable immediately. Then the body starts to restore. So people want to like always add things in and like, what can we take out? That's true, but it has to be like mentally, emotionally and physically available to the client.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And it is true, because that's why I ask lifestyle wise. Because so much of health and wellness where people struggle is convenience and accessibility. And that's where you have a lot of people who are like, yeah, I want to do these things, I want to take care of myself, but I don't have the tools, I don't have the time. And how do you start to do that? And. And then you start to do your own research, which you've been able to find your way through. Right. But to the normal person who has no knowledge or any version of training, they go online and you have so many options. Which option do you go down? Okay, this is.

[Kara Clark]

They take, they want to take something and I always want to take stuff.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Everything is a, is just a different journey, a different battle that you have to go down. So it's interesting to hear that perspective. Not once in all of my research that I've personally done have I ever heard somebody be like, well, let's like remove some things but also keep stuff in. Yeah, that's just a different strategy. Yeah, I want to go a few different areas here on some of the things you said. One of them you mentioned, supplements. Supplements are very common, especially as people are trying to understand their bodies better. Supplements tend to be something that people go down, especially coming out of traditional medicine and into a more functional lifestyle. Why do you say five and under and what's this deal with supplements?

[Kara Clark]

Because most of the time when people are coming to me, they've already been here, there, here, they're like five different other places. And typically they're loaded up with supplements and they have all kinds of gut issues. So in order for a supplement to work, it has to go through the gut and then get to the bloodstream, and it gets to the bloodstream from the gut. So if you don't have like pretty optimal gut health, then there's not a lot of these encapsulated unless it's wrapped in fat, which is liposomal. So liposomal is a better option for somebody who's really trying to heal. So my rule of thumb is foundational support. So foundations with food, foundations with movement. That doesn't mean more workouts. It means like matching what the body's able to do with its stage stress and otherwise and then foundations of activation. So we activate the body in general with an active multi, an omega 3 or balance oil and a probiotic. So these are the three starting point. If you can only afford $4 a day, that's where you start. If you're somebody, food is not pleasurable because it's like always disrupting, meaning like bloating gas. Everyone complains they're bloated inflammation. We're going to do digestive enzymes with that foundations. If you're somebody super high stress or high strung like me, then we're going to do magnesium and optimize the body that way. And we're likely going to do an active B because somebody like me is burning the adrenals out. So we're burning our bees. Burning the bees. So that's five, right?

[Morgan Huelsman]

Those are the five. And you had mentioned these. And again you can go online and you say everybody needs this. Like you can see it. You got influencers galore. You have so much content that's happening out there. But truly is there supplements that every single person needs? Is there things that every single body is going to need? Does that actually happen or is it more so often that your body is unique and you need to treat it as such?

[Kara Clark]

Yeah, I mean if you have the resources to really do the bio individual approach, a hundred percent test, don't guess but functional medicine testing and integrative medicine testing is going to be, if you want to find out your biomarkers on all of your vitamins and minerals, it's going to be like $1200. So it's not available to everybody.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Again, back to the accessibility side.

[Kara Clark]

Yeah, right. So I just general rule of thumb, I'm going to suggest, you know, an active multi like Thorn or equilife. Right now I really, for somebody that is aware that they have mthfr, I like this supplement called N Light for their active multi. So if I have a little bit of data on them I can make suggestions. But, but yeah, if we're just generalizing this, go with an active multi. Even Mary Ruth's vitamins, which are accessible on Amazon and most people can pay for them are good.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Okay, that's good to know. I think for a lot of people too because just like I said, the accessibility thing is what is so difficult. And that's why I think people turn to the Internet. They're trying to find answers the best.

[Kara Clark]

Way they can and yet they end up burdening the body.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yes. Because it's often that a lot of things Band Aid we're back to the root cause. It's again onion. It's all onion. And you're just there's so many different layers and a lot of complexities of human which is why health and wellness I think goes so much beyond understanding just your nutrition and the things that you're supposed to have in or not have in it's right. It's understanding things as a whole. And I love that's what you're practicing that you're also preaching that in your own life.

[Kara Clark]

Yeah.

[American Express Representative]

It's the last game of the season and with amex you can save time with card member entrances at select venues and go straight to the action so you can catch every moment. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn more@American Express.com with Amex.

[Discover Card Representative]

Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report.

[Cindy Crawford]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but like I never liked being told, oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age? Every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty, Beautiful skin at every age. Learn [e-mail].

[Morgan Huelsman]

You were talking to of your high stress and you shared bits and pieces of your story as a mom of four daughters and you have a husband. Like, you have all the reasons to not be doing health and wellness. You're busy, you're. You have your own business. Like how do you do it? How is this working for you?

[Kara Clark]

Well, part of it is I have to. If I don't stay pretty straight and narrow on my choices, it's easy for me because I'm obsessed with feeling good. Let's face it, I want to feel good every single day. I don't like feeling bad ever. I'm a wimp when it comes to any symptoms. If my ring is even. Oh, you're showing some mild symptoms.

[Lindsay Kite]

Like you're like, okay, great.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I have to restart everything.

[Kara Clark]

So I have to. I. I chose this. This is my dream life that I'm living right now. I'm not gonna watch it fade away. So I being. Having four kids keeps you in the present moment. And that's the nice thing about the chaos of my life, as I'm always in the present moment. So I'm not having to do all this meditation work to get in the present moment, because I'm in the present moment. My meditation work is to, you know, bring out my nervous system a little bit. So you the. Why do like, why do I do it? How do I do it? I think people should just come live with me and see. I don't know how to describe it, but generally I follow my food philosophy. I eat within the hour of waking up. I don't drink coffee on an empty stomach. Those are two big ones that I think a lot of people don't do. I try to exercise every day for 30 minutes and I don't like. The only reason I say try, I'm obsessed with working out, like I mentioned from the beginning, but my day doesn't always a lot for it. And so by lifestyle, I have a lot of neat egg movement. Have you heard of that? Non.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Tell me.

[Kara Clark]

Neat exercise thermogenesis. Okay, what is this? It's tracking the movement of our body. I'm up and down the stairs. We were talking about your stairs. You know, putting laundry away, doing dishes. I have a lot of movement walking my kids to school, walking the dog. Just a lot of movement. And I try to prioritize movement over going to a workout class because I know it's not realistic for me in my stage of life. And I'm okay with that because when this is said and done and the girls move on, that'll be like the hard part for me. I'll have a harder time staying structured and regimented then. Yeah, like right now I have to drink my water, I have to take my detox baths. I have to do take my vitamins or my. I pay for it. You know, when I don't have to anymore, when, like space is totally cleared up, then I'm gonna have to deal with all my issues.

[Morgan Huelsman]

You're like, there's a lot of purpose behind aside right now. So I'm just gonna hiding my. No. But that's also very real, right? Because it's easy to look at somebody like you who has all this knowledge and has the experience and be like, well, yeah, that's easy for her. Yeah, but you have a very busy and full life and you're. You've made it a priority, but that's your drive, right? So I think that's something for people to think of is what's their drive, what's their reason? That's your reason. And this is why every day you're like, okay, I have to do these things. Right? You have your purpose. So finding a purpose, I think will help people in attaining these goals. When it is, you want to look at it and be overwhelmed and say, there's no way I can do this.

[Kara Clark]

Right.

[Morgan Huelsman]

So I, I think that's.

[Lindsay Kite]

Well.

[Kara Clark]

And I, in my membership this year, I started the year off with a coaching session of having them reprioritize. And not just what's important, what's not, like what's relevant to what you're aspiring to do. Why are you here? You're in my membership for a reason. So let's lay it out with priorities instead of goals. And I felt like that even helped me. Like I was telling my team the other day, I don't have time to help in my daughter's school, quote unquote. But that's what gives me great joy. So I'm reprioritizing that in my schedule. So I go do that every Tuesday for an hour or whatever. People think I'm crazy. I coach my kids teams because that's a priority to me, because it gives me so much joy. You know, I don't not do things because I don't have time. I restructure my schedule for my priorities. Does that make sense?

[Morgan Huelsman]

It absolutely does. And it is. It's something that is difficult. Right. Because a lot of topics on this podcast in general has always been, it's easier to do stuff that's not hard. Yeah, that's just true, unfortunately. And it's easy to get stuck in ways where it's just you're taking the easier route or you're repeating the same cycle. What you're talking about is a hard choice to make. You have to make the choice to make things a priority and restructure your life to make that happen, which we love to think that we can do. But when we're faced with that decision is often, I'm okay, yeah, never mind.

[Kara Clark]

It's true. To cook dinner or grab dinner, for sure.

[Morgan Huelsman]

It really is. And then back to the convenience side of things and understanding all of that. So understanding that things are a priority is necessary. I also want to mention to you, so on my side of things, you're gonna probably Have a lot of tips in this area. I've been a vegetarian since I was 8 years old as a decision that I made very.

[Kara Clark]

In the middle of Kansas no less.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah.

[Kara Clark]

Very young.

[Morgan Huelsman]

My sister told me where my McDonald's cheeseburger came from and I said I am absolutely not eating this anymore. And declared right then and there to my parents. Very strong opinion of me not to. But I did and I've stuck with them. Now 31 years old, a long time of being vegetarian. But one of my biggest struggles, and I think so many people struggles regardless of being vegetarian, vegan or eating all kinds of meat is getting protein in all the time. That's. And it's so important but it's so hard to do.

[Kara Clark]

Yeah, it is. I don't know why. I mean that's why I think it trends to say prioritize protein. Cuz really I prioritize all three macros. But it is the one thing that you don't naturally grab. Fat's easy to get. Fat is twice as nutrient dense, you don't need as much. So by the looks of it you eat half the fat as you do carbs and protein. Yeah, protein is not a natural thing for people to grab. You're a hundred percent right. I wonder what's involved in that. Human nature and evolution. I'm with you. It's hard to think about the animals and I have actually a friend from Kansas who found out where her pet pig went.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Oh no.

[Kara Clark]

And never ate meat again.

[Morgan Huelsman]

So no, that that would traumatize me.

[Kara Clark]

I know it is traumatizing. And I went through a stage where I was vegetarian and it was so inflammatory for my body that I had to make the hard choice. So like. But yeah, and like when I'm working with somebody there are emotions and there's physiological things and there's physical things and there's mental things. And so I have to help the person build back regardless of my beliefs. Does that make sense? So anyways, what was the original question? Oh, protein.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Well the hard part you can also talk about too because you had mentioned that you do the three groups together than just protein too. So if that's better, feel free. This is just the hot thing on social media, protein.

[Kara Clark]

It's because it's hard to get. It's not natural. Even like my daughter that came home early today, she made herself a huge. And she's. I just don't know what protein to add. So it's just not natural. Unless we're like deferring to dairy. Everyone wants cheese and yogurt. But yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Oh, yeah. As a vegetarian, that's the, that's the one reason why I can't go vegan. I. I've tried and it is to that point and because often, like when people think about protein, when they think about a healthy meal, it'd be like veggies, rice, protein.

[Kara Clark]

Yes.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And people are so tired of doing that.

[Kara Clark]

Right. Again, indoctrinated by the fitness world.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Exactly. And they're tired of that. So they're like, okay, well how can I find other ways to get in protein? Then you start looking like, well, maybe there's really not all that many options here.

[Kara Clark]

Well, there's not like very many pure, complete proteins for vegetarians. That's just the truth. Terry is one. So you're right on that.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And even cottage cheese is like my best friend.

[Lindsay Kite]

Yeah.

[Kara Clark]

I love cottage cheese. I did a bioresonance scan with physics measuring my voice. So I do all the testing and cottage cheese came back perfect. I was like, all the wavelengths match cottage cheese in my body, which is ironic because I don't do well with most dairy.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Okay. So cottage cheese, though was the same. I need. You keep telling me all these things and I'm like, okay, eggs.

[Kara Clark]

Are you pescatarian?

[Morgan Huelsman]

I do eggs.

[Kara Clark]

Okay.

[Morgan Huelsman]

It's like a weird. I have a weird relationship with eggs. Sometimes I'll be like, yeah, let's eat them.

[Kara Clark]

Nobody can have a relationship with eggs anymore. They're just confiscated. Permanently. They're gone.

[Morgan Huelsman]

They are there. I saw a place was doing in New York, they were doing like Lucy eggs where they're just like one. I'm like, imagine you just go and buy five Lucy eggs and you're trying to make it home with these Lucy eggs. You're like, back in high school when they gave you that as a baby to take care of.

[Kara Clark]

Oh, my gosh.

[Lindsay Kite]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And I'm like, how, what are you going to put your Lucy eggs in now? Because you don't get a carton as a whole thing.

[Kara Clark]

That's funny. I didn't know that. Yeah. And then like when you take the deeper dive, and I know we don't have all the time in the world, but vegetarian protein is plant based and a lot of these plants are not organic and they're not grown in rich soil and they're high in arsenic, which is a heavy metal. And so then you're like, where do I turn?

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yep.

[Kara Clark]

And then the nut milks and stuff, they're. Unless you make your own, which, like, who has time for that?

[Morgan Huelsman]

It is Getting to the point where you're like, I might as well just have my own garden, make my own things. Don't go to the store.

[Kara Clark]

No, never need to go to the store.

[Morgan Huelsman]

If we end up in an apocalypse, I suppose that would help everybody out.

[Kara Clark]

Every time I hire Instacart and Ship, they put me over the edge with their replacements, so. Or lack thereof.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yep. Every time. Well, well, that, that is like a big topic. But what, what is something too for you because you've been in this so long, you personally, maybe it's something for other people. However you want to walk down, you can. But what's something you wish you had known sooner about? Whether it's nutrition, health.

[Kara Clark]

Yeah. The biggest thing I wish I had known is about adrenals. And taking this more integrative. Our adrenals are on top of our kidneys and our kidneys and Chinese medicine are our heart. So in American, when our understanding, the kidneys are the air filter to the body. And so if the adrenals are down, it affects the kidneys, which affects your drainage pathways, which you know, and then affects a lot of other things, obviously. But if I understood supporting my adrenals through my pregnancies, through starting my business, I don't think I would have had the major two year breakdown that I did where I thought everything, I was going to lose everything. So, you know, supporting your adrenals is not a simple topic. It's different for everybody. It's not vegetarian.

[Morgan Huelsman]

They all are.

[Kara Clark]

I know. So that was, that's one thing. And then obviously the nervous system. I think that like I said, we define things as normal for ourselves because we're used to it and because it became our normal. But having balance in the body and regulation of the different systems is what we should be seeking, not keeping our normal.

[Morgan Huelsman]

That's really good information for other people too, to, to have. But crazy.

[Lindsay Kite]

I.

[Morgan Huelsman]

The adrenals I learned about too, when I also had went into some. You said the supplemental side. What would that be referred to as in medicine when they're more like, oh, biomolecular. Yeah. More supplement. And one of the biggest things, high stress. I had bad adrenal because I had such a like high stress job. And I was like, I didn't even know those existed.

[Kara Clark]

No, what are you talking about? And it seems like a loose term, like adrenal fatigue, because for me I was hyper, I wasn't tired. Like I couldn't even go to sleep.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah, you're like, I. This feels like that's not how that's.

[Kara Clark]

Supposed to sound until I really started the path of discovery.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah. Well, I could. Listen, Kara, we could sit here all day because I love everything that you're doing. Your story is amazing. But I do love to end the podcast with a motivational tip, if you will, or something that you feel like can help other people or something that you just feel like on your heart to share. So something motivationable to. To end us here on a high note.

[Kara Clark]

Yeah. That's awesome that you always share motivational things. I think for most people when they do start health journeys, it's fleeting that they don't see results. So really tap into how you feel. How do you can measure how you feel? Do you have energy? Do you feel good? Rather than what the scale says or what your clothes say. If you feel good, change will come.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Oh, that's a really important one, especially right now because the impact of social media has a lot of us seeing ourselves differently and thinking that the scale is still one of the most important things when it really isn't.

[Kara Clark]

Right.

[Morgan Huelsman]

It has a lot to do with how you feel. So, Kara, thank you for joining me. Thanks for being here, sharing your story. You. You do have your new cookbook that's coming out. I did want to mention too, because weird connection by way country music. You have a forward in there from Carrie Underwood.

[Kara Clark]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

How. What's that connection?

[Kara Clark]

We went to college together in Oklahoma.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Okay. You said. Ok, now this is making sense. So been friends college.

[Kara Clark]

Well, yes, there was a window of time where we lost touch, but we moved here because they were very welcoming to us.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Wow. Okay. And have you guys worked together at all on the nutrition side? Because I know she's also huge.

[Kara Clark]

Yeah. I was a contributor to her book and I'm the nutritionist on her app. So I developed the recipes for her Fit52 app. But yeah, we try to keep our relationship super. Like friendship.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah.

[Kara Clark]

And, you know, personal and not so much work. Nice thing with somebody like her is you're not even working with her, you're working with her team. So, you know, we always keep our relationship friendly.

[Morgan Huelsman]

No, that's a good thing. Well, I love that. And it's friend supporting friends. You were. You helped in some things. And. But also the core people always say.

[Kara Clark]

Oh, and Carrie Underwood's nutritionist, I'm like, we're just friends. She doesn't listen to me.

[Morgan Huelsman]

You're like, well, I mean, Carrie Anna was in great shape. I know at some point you just be like. And I can't even claim it.

[Kara Clark]

It Takes her five years when after I say something, for her to follow through.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Oh, hey, carry on. Just like the rest of us. You know, we're all, we're all learning. But I'm really excited to. To see your cookbook take off, just like everything else has happened for you. But again, thank you for being here.

[Kara Clark]

Thank you.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I am joined by Lindsay Kite. She is one of identical twins. They are two twins who promote body image resilience after getting their PhDs from the University of Utah in the study of female body image. But they also have a book called More Than a Body. I'm just so excited to have you on. How are you, Lindsay?

[Lindsay Kite]

I'm good. Thanks so much for having me. Morgan.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yes. I'm excited to get a talk with you because your book is so powerful for so many people. I'm shocked how I hadn't heard of it until I stumbled upon you guys on social media and I was like, these guys are perfect. I need to have them on the podcast. So tell me a little bit how you guys got into this line of work.

[Lindsay Kite]

Sure, yeah. Thanks for this invitation. Whether or not you had heard of our book or our work or whatever, I'm glad you stumbled upon us. So love that. And I can fill you in on the whole background. I would say Lexi and I first got started in this work because we had been so affected by our culture's really crazy, harmful ideals about bodies and weight and beauty growing up. And so we were kind of primed to recognize this as a real issue within ourselves. I'll start from when we were both in college and we were trying really, really hard to be different, but we both took separate sections of the same class on media literacy. So it was basically just the ability to see and deconstruct media messages, why images and texts are curated the way that they are and engineered the way that they are. And one of the elements of that was on gender and how women are represented and portrayed in such specific, narrow, one dimensional ways. So Lexi and I grew up feeling so abnormal, just so embarrassed of our bodies and like we were just so gross and overweight and will never be good enough and always striving for more. And in college, once we both were in these separate classrooms learning this message that we had kind of been tricked into thinking that we were wrong, that our bodies were uniquely gross and problems in need of fixing. And instead that was something that media was literally profiting off of, that there are so many industries, corporations, and people that were banking on us feeling so insecure, always needing to buy the next product or the next diet plan, whatever it may be. Lexi and I, being identical twins, I think were always really hyper fixated on what we looked like because everyone else was about us meeting people growing up, really still to this day, when we're together, we'll meet someone for the first time. They will look us both up and down, just scan our whole bodies and faces. And especially when we were little, they would pick out those little differences. Oh, okay, so you're the one with straighter teeth or you're the one with the rounder face. And it was always just kind of a competition, but it made us really, really fixated on what we looked like and how we compared to each other. And I remember constantly scanning my twin sister's body up and down to see, okay, that's what I look like in those pants that we share. And just being really self conscious. So learning about that in college and starting to figure out that actually your body image is this whole. It's a construction. It's built by our society and so many of us have it, regardless of what we look like, we feel so negatively. That was the start of so much more that led to how many years, 10 years of higher education. Lexi and I both earned our master's and PhDs and we did it together and did really complimentary research about the objectification of women. Now we see ourselves as objects. Not only why that happens, but how to fix it, most importantly. And that's the body image resilience that you mentioned earlier.

[Morgan Huelsman]

It's so cool that you guys, as identical twins, had planned. We're going to have our own lives and we're going to do our own thing. And somehow it still panned out that you guys ended up studying the same thing, coming together and really focusing and understanding this stuff together. I think that's awesome.

[Lindsay Kite]

So yeah, isn't that wild? We want it to be different so bad and just couldn't do it. We just couldn't. We have the same interests and had such similar experiences that we decided we were just going to use our powers for good instead of evil and stop fighting so much and being in competition and instead focus on the same thing and try to do some good. Thankfully, it's really helped. I think our work has gone a lot further and we've been able to do so much more than we could if it was just one of us solo. Things have evolved in the. Oh man. We've been doing this for teen years. 16 years. We started in 2009 when we finished our Master's degrees. So, yeah, this has been a ongoing process.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I think that's super cool. And sometimes you just gotta let life work out how it's supposed to work out instead of fighting it. So it sounds like that's what happens. Totally. I don't think that we can really start the conversation about why the work you guys are doing is so important without discussing the root cause of body image issues. You know, before you came on, I also had a friend on Kara Clark, who's an integrative Health really is focused on you feeling good in your body. And that's the focus rather than focusing on the diet and trying to change your body. How do you feel good? Let's find a way to make you feel good. And we talk a lot about root causes and I think this is also a topic where there's a root cause to this and there's something that created this and is part of this story that we often don't get to the bottom of when we just feel, I hate my body and that's that. But there's something behind that. So can you share a little bit about what that might be?

[Lindsay Kite]

Yeah, definitely. The root of all of this and the research that Lexi and I have done have has really pointed to the objectification of women's bodies. So in our culture, all of the media images that all of us have been surrounded by since we were growing up has been really curated so that women look one particular way. So think of the media images that you were surrounded by growing up. Of course, media was a little bit more limited then, but we all shared these same cultural images and messages about which women were worthy of being featured or depicted in media. Whether it was your local news anchor, a national news anchor, what girls look like in your favorite TV shows, movies, magazines, advertising you'd walk past on the street. Like literally everything. We generally saw only very thin women, often white women or women with light skin tones, if they were women of color, long hair, flawless faces and bodies, meaning no cellulite, no stretch marks, no acne, no wrinkles, no gray hair, typically very young looking faces and bodies. So we have this one very particular idea of what it looked like to be not just an attractive 10 out of 10 woman, but what it looks like to be a normal woman or a healthy woman. All of this has been really curated in our minds through media messages. And some people say it's like a chicken or the egg situation. Did people have these preferences for one particular body type, or did industries create these preferences? Or did media start that and reflected it to us. And now we just take that in and try to emulate it and reflect it back. The truth is, I'll use a word that I don't think people love to talk about often in a lot of circles, but patriarchy, when men are largely in power, when decision makers are overwhelmingly male, then often the images and the messages that we'll see in society will reflect those types of preferences. So we talk about a male gaze that is perpetuated through media, all types of media. That means the women that you'll see depicted or featured at all are typically seen through the lens of what a straight male would look at. So the way the camera pans up and down a woman's body and zooms in on certain parts of her body, think of your favorite TV show. It could be a reality show or a scripted show, whatever, even one that is specifically for women, you'll still see the camera zoom in on parts of her body and the dialogue will focus on what she looks like. It was even worse when we were growing up in a lot of ways. So that patriarchy and what sells and what's deemed attractive or desirable or okay enough to be shown or celebrated was really very one dimensional. And it's created this. These generations of women who feel defined by how we look. Not just that we don't feel beautiful, but we feel obsessed with what we look like, period. Some people do feel beautiful and that's what we. When we talk about self objectification, that means you grow up in a society where you're surrounded by the objectification of women and then you turn that lens on yourself. You learn to self objectify, to see yourself as an object. So not a dynamic, fully thinking, feeling human being with agency. Living inside this body, you start to see yourself as the rest of the world sees women's bodies. And that is as bodies and not as people. We learn to self objectify and moderate everything we do through the lens of how do I look right now? Who is looking at me right now? Do I need to suck in? Do I need to sit in a different position? Do I need to keep my chin up so my double chin isn't showing? All of this follows us throughout our whole lives and we learn it from a very, very young age to self objectify.

[American Express Representative]

Count your way into a perfect night with Amex Gold. One restaurant, two friends, three amazing dishes. And four times membership rewards points on purchases at restaurants, restaurants and U.S. supermarkets. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Cap applies. Learn more atAmerican Express.com with Amex.

[Discover Card Representative]

Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report.

[Cindy Crawford]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but like, I never liked being told, oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age, every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty. Beautiful skin at every age. Learn more@meaningful beauty.com.

[Morgan Huelsman]

You mentioned so many different details here that I want to get into. I'm one of those people, much like most women are. I watched so many Disney shows. I watched all of them. I loved consuming media. I loved looking at magazines. I was a young girl. That was so fun to me to do. But now as an older woman, you look back and you see the things that you were consuming. And now I'm having to retrain myself to see things differently. And I think this is so difficult to do for people because you're retraining decades of things like you mentioned that have been ingrained in our heads. So how do we start to retrain ourselves? What does that start to look like for someone who is, quote, unquote, waking up and realizing this isn't the norm?

[Lindsay Kite]

Yeah, that's such a good question. And I just want to acknowledge how amazing it is that so many people are even thinking about that. Like, how incredible is it that we are in this day and age? Our generation is starting to push back on these ideas about what it means to be desirable or healthy or normal or whatever. And we're doing that not only for ourselves, but for the generations to come and even for the generations before us. I do this stuff for my mom and my grandma, who's still fixated on what she looked like and how many calories and carbs and sugars she's eating. All of this, I think, is so important and I want people to think of their motivation for why they're even asking this question. Why do you want to retrain your brain it's probably because you have been harmed by this stuff. It's because you have wasted too many years of your life fixating on what you eat to become smaller instead of worrying about how you feel right now. And I don't mean how you feel about how you look. I mean literally how you feel. How you feel about experiencing the world and moving in the world, in this body that you were born into and that you will live every second of your life in. We should be so at home in these bodies, and instead we feel so separated from them. We watch ourselves being looked at. We imagine how we look as we live our lives and that holds us back. It stops us. Think of little girls in middle school who stop raising their hands in class and they start sitting out in PE class and they drop out a dance and volleyball and anything else where they don't want to be looked at. And for me, it was swimming. Once I got into high school, I completely quit swimming because I was too worried about these boys from my high school seeing me in a swimsuit. Think of what you lost and missed out on. So a lot of us are starting from that baseline of I can't do this anymore. And maybe it's even for your daughter. The people who are having babies right now are waking up to these ideas that I don't want my kids to deal with what I've had to deal with. Even if I'm still dealing with it right now. I got to fix it for me so I can help them and let that be your motivation. Honestly, keep that kind of rage and that willingness to fight and push back and let that fuel you in this journey. So when I talk about body image resilience, I'm talking about something that's a few steps beyond just body positivity. I'm not just telling you you're beautiful just the way you are. You should feel great because your flaws make you beautiful and everyone thinks you're prettier than you think you are. That's been kind of the messaging that we've heard over the last couple decades. That's the really just public kind of big mass campaign sort of messaging that is nice and it's good and there's nothing wrong with it. But the problem is we need to go a little bit further than that. Because if you really think about it, all of those messages are keeping us fixated on beauty. Whether or not we feel beautiful, whether or not we are beautiful, beauty remains the key to our power and self esteem. And it shouldn't be with body Image resilience. You are coming back home to your body. Your body not as this beautiful thing for you to display and to be admired by others, but this instrument that is your home. The subtitle, my book with Lexi is more than a body. Your body is an instrument, not an ornament. And we named it that specifically with your body as an instrument, not an ornament as the subtitle. Because that is this mantra that we've been sharing for the last 15 years or whatever. And that kind of sums up this mission that we are. That we are on. That in order to really progress and to make any headway toward feeling comfortable and at home in our bodies, we need to see our bodies for what they really are. Instruments for our use and our benefit and our experience, not ornaments to be looked at and to be admired. Let your journey.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I'm really glad you brought that up. I love that saying that you guys came up with. And I'll get into that a little bit more here in a second. But something that weighs super heavily for me and I'm sure for other people, I have struggle. Striking this balance between I know that I want to love my body and I want to be comfortable in my skin, and I don't want to listen to things, but I also want to be healthy. And what does that look like? And we balance the two of those things is such this very delicate area. Because when you start to get into the health side of things, you start to look at yourself in a certain way and you're obsessed with the scale or you're trying to focus on what your body looks like. But so much of what I think is important is again, striking that balance of I'm comfortable in my skin, but I want to be strong and I want to be healthy, and I want to feel good, because I feel good and I'm nourishing my body in the right way. Yeah, but how do we do that? Because I know for me, that's a daily struggle. I know that it's a lot for everybody else. And we're constantly inundated on social media with so much content on multiple levels of this. So how do we sit there and find that delicate area where we're honoring the fact that we don't need to change, but also we want to be healthy.

[Lindsay Kite]

Yeah, your question is great. And it reflects one that everybody in especially our society asks when they start to be confronted with these topics. And it's actually what my whole dissertation research was based on. My research was on how women define health and Fitness for themselves, how they understand it. What does it mean for a woman to be healthy and fit, and how do we fix it? Because at the root of your question, it shows this confusion that almost all women and all people in our culture share, which is the idea that health means looking a certain way or weighing a certain amount. And when you really dig into the real research on what health and fitness truly means and how to truly define it in an effective way, you find out that your weight, your appearance, your body fat percentage, all of that is actually a really flawed way of thinking about a person's health and fitness. So mass research since the 70s shows that the most effective way to determine a person's health or fitness is their physical activity level, not how they look while they're engaged in physical activity, not whether they're running marathons every month, not how jiggly their thighs are while they are engaging in that physical activity. It's simply how often you are moving your body and getting your heart rate up. That is how you can judge health or fitness for most people. Obviously, go to the doctor, get all of the testing done that you possibly can to find out what's really going on in your body, because everybody's body is different. But the reality is you can judge whether or not you're healthy or fit by internal indicators like your blood pressure, your cholesterol, your blood sugar, your respiratory fitness, all that kind of stuff that a regular doctor can help you really get a handle on and how often you are active and getting your heart rate up. People who are totally healthy by all of those measures look a huge variety of different ways and weigh a huge variety of different weights. So when I say your body is an instrument, not an ornament, that is actually the answer to your question. I want to be healthy and I want to love my body. Means I'm going to use my body as an instrument because my body is important. Important to use. How I feel better about my body is by using my body, honoring my body, engaging in enjoyable activity. And that is truly the best way to improve your body image is to think of your body as an instrument and to actually use it that way. My research showed that most women define health or fitness by their weight, their body mass index, or their pants size. And so my whole dissertation research was how do we intervene to share accurate information about how to define health and fitness so that women can have a better understanding for themselves and then set better goals for their own health and fitness? And what it showed was that women often would start by they would pick goals for themselves, like New Year's resolutions, basically that would say, I want to lose X pounds by this date or I want to get back into these pants that are in the back of my closet or I want to get into this weight category. And those goals, though they sound like they're pointing toward health, are often not only unachievable, but they lead to worse health outcomes. Because when you are striving to lose weight instead of to improve all of those internal indicators of health or to just move your body at a pace and duration that is healthy for you, then you are getting hung up on factors that are not always within your control, especially for women. Because these measures, we might have a weight number in our head. That's a total lie that we heard on the Internet that, you know, women who are the most beautiful weigh this amount for this height or whatever it is. It's all such a weird arbitrary system. And you know that, you know that people's weight fluctuates and your shocked when you hear what someone really weighs and you think she looks so great and wow, I can't believe it's that much. Everyone's weight is just like a whole different independent story and it really doesn't have much bearing on their health or fitness. So the better sounding goals, not even better sounding, but actually more effective goals for women's health and fitness would be to say, I want to get my heart rate up to x rate for 30 minutes, five days a week. That is kind of baseline what doctors recommend. But the most important thing is to do something that is motivational and fulfilling for you. So whatever activities it is, don't do something you hate. Don't do something that's a punishment because you ate too much or because you think your body's disgusting. So you've got to go run on the treadmill late at night for two hours a day. Pick activities that are actually enjoyable that you'll look forward to, and they will help you have this greater appreciation for your body and how it works and what it allows you to do and to experience rather than just measuring its, you know, its weight, its relationship to gravity that can be so discouraging and doesn't actually improve your health.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I'm so glad you refer to it as a relationship to gravity because that's really all it is.

[Lindsay Kite]

It's right, isn't it?

[Morgan Huelsman]

Is. And something that's really helped me in this area I have focused on when I say I want to be strong, it's not to look a certain way It's I'm a single woman. I have to take care of things by myself. So I want to be able to lift things. I want to be able to take care of stuff by my own. So I got to be strong to take care of myself. And I want to feel good because feeling good means I am a good person. I can be out there living in the world and interacting with the world because I feel good, because I'm nourishing my body in a way that feels really good to me and that's so important to find. But even someone who, like me, feels like I have this whole grasp on what I'm doing and what that means doesn't mean I don't go on social media and see all kinds of things and be like, dang, I wish I looked like that or I wish I had that body or I don't have that. Do I need to do this? Or you can get so derailed so quickly because of everything that's out there. And that was something I would love for you to share your input on because I work in social media. I love social media for the fact that it can bring people together and it can bring people like us together who may never come together. I think it's a beautiful tool, but it's also a place that people have used to really, gosh, just hate on women in every way in which they do something. They could do everything correctly and there's still hatred toward them. There's still this insane goal of making a woman feel worse about herself.

[Lindsay Kite]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And I don't know why that continues to keep happening, but I just love your input on that because I know when I get on social media as a woman, I hate being there sometimes because I know that I'm going to get hate simply for existing.

[Lindsay Kite]

Yeah. Well, it comes back to what I said at the beginning about it being profit driven and sexist. Really. These beauty ideals are a way to keep women in our place. Women aren't really able to progress as much personally in our individual lives and in society collectively when we're so fixated on how we look and when we are measuring ourselves against these really unattainable and really hypersexualized out of reach images that we're comparing ourselves to, often totally photoshopped and filtered and edited and everything else. But I, I just want to honor how difficult it is to live in a society like this and to be surrounded by these types of images and messages for our entire lives. You could be the most educated, the most successful, the most Loved, well informed person who's totally at ease with yourself in every other category. But if you're a woman who lives in this western society where we are being evaluated by how we look and we're judging ourselves according to those same measures, then you're always going to come up short. And so this is not a you problem. This is not an individual problem of anyone, any one of us not being strong enough or having high enough self esteem or having enough willpower just to abstain from eating all that stuff that I know I shouldn't have eaten or having the discipline to exercise more. All of that points back to me as the problem. You as the problem. You not having enough self control. You not doing all the right things in order to be as hot and thin and sexy and young looking as you think you need to be in order to be happy. What I want to point out to you is that that's not the case. And our whole society, our whole culture and so many industries are engineered to put that blame on you. When the reality is that this system that we're surrounded by is really the thing to blame. It's been so carefully curated to drive those feelings in us so that we will then buy the products and follow the people and engage in the activities and the services that make people money and that keep this hierarchy in place where women, we're never quite good enough. We're always going to need to try to be better because we're not quite worthy of love, we're not quite worthy of empowerment and happiness and confidence and whatever else we want because we, we just don't quite look the part. Even if everything else in our lives is 10 out of 10, that is a losing system. It is a rigged game. And that is the game of objectification. Where we are objects and these objects, the rules for what makes a good object a perfect object, are ever changing, are impossible, always, perpetually just out of reach. And how do you know? Because even the most beautiful 10 out of 10 women in this world don't feel perfect. They don't feel like they are always worthy of that love or their images are getting edited 100% of the time. They are still getting cheated on, they're still having major health issues. They are still going through the same difficulties that all the rest of us are dealing with in our bodies that are blood compared to theirs. And I also just want to point out that these things that we want, like what you said, we want love, we want confidence, we want these success in our careers, these are all universal. Human desires, we want all of this and yet men are able to achieve all of that without having to have a body that is exactly perfect and up to these really particular standards. And I'm not saying it's not difficult for men because mental are being faced with a whole variety of appearance related ideals and ideals on a variety of other factors about their success, their wealth, everything else. But for women, we have to have all of those other attributes and always be judged by whether or not we have a body that is perfect. And the ideals for women are incredibly hard to achieve because they are based on thinness and youth. And you cannot have thinness and youth forever because our bodies change. And by our very nature, through puberty and through pregnancy and through all of the hormonal shifts and age and everything else, our bodies are changing every single day. So this is a losing game. And when you try to play by that system, you fail. Even when you are amazing in every other way. So this just should point out to you how rigged the system is and not how wrong and at fault you are. We all want all of those things. And we have been taught by well meaning family members, by the media that we've been surrounded by, especially the social media, but also movies and TV and everything, especially advertising, that in order, the best way to achieve health, happiness, success, empowerment and especially love and desirability is to be more hot, to be thinner, to look younger, whatever. That is all not true. It is not true. I just want people to be so critical when that thought enters our minds. We think we're improving our lives by losing weight or by getting the new cosmetic surgery or whatever procedures. When in reality we are just striving for this bar of perfection that continues to be raised further and further out of reach. And the closer we get to it, the further we feel from it. So much of the time it is a losing system. But we can feel happy and confident and at home in our bodies, regardless of how we look. Literally. This body that you're sitting in right now, I'm talking to everyone who's listening, this body that you are in right now, you can be at home in that body because it's yours. It does not matter what you look like or what you've done. And you might feel like, well no, I don't deserve that because I have no self control and I haven't done all the right things and gotten all of my shit together. The reality is you are worthy of love, of empowerment, of confidence. No matter what you look like and what choices you've made because you were born into this body and this body is important and it's yours. We need to start from that standpoint that your body is your home, it's not your enemy.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I love that I put myself in the position to then to have you share that. Because again, it's back to what you're saying where we all have these feelings because we're human and this is a real thing that we're experiencing day in and day out. And so as much as somebody can be so well versed and so you, you know that the right things and you know the right way to see it, it doesn't mean it's not going to creep in and try and come back at you all over again. Something that I really feel that has helped me because it's also in this, all these beauty trends and the fashion trends, and you need to be doing this cosmetic thing to what you said. Something that's really helped me is that I've taken the power back in all of that, where I don't participate in trends unless it's something I love, unless it's something that shows up and I'm like, yeah, I look good in skinny jeans or I look really good in low rise, or you feel great because you decided to get Botox.

[Lindsay Kite]

Cool.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I love that for you. But if you chose that for you, then I think that's what helps us a lot, to take the power away from it and say, I like this because I do. Not because they're telling me to, not because I'm seeing it on somebody else and it looks really good and oh, I'm gonna make it work on me. There are so many trends that come down. I have. I learned this the very hard way, especially in my early 20s. So much does not look good on me. I do not. That is not built for my body. I say that often, especially when it comes to the fashion industry. I have a very short torso. I'm very short. Most things do not fit me. And I had to stop falling into the trap of the advertising and say, I have to do this for me, and if I like this trend for me, cool, I'll get it. But I'm not going to participate just because it's the cool thing to do. And taking that power back really helped me.

[Lindsay Kite]

I like that. Yeah, there's so much freedom. I think sometimes that comes with age a little bit where it's like, I remember the last time that trend was around and it didn't look good on me then. And when I was in seventh grade, trying so hard. I don't have to do that now. I'm 39 years old. I get to wear skinny jeans as long as I want to or high waisted jeans even when low rise jeans are coming back. Because I know that I physically cannot withstand another round of low rise jeans. I can't do it.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Exactly. And I hope that having conversations like this ingrains it even sooner for people in their lives. We've had to your point. It is. It comes with age, it comes with wisdom. But I hope that us talking about it ingrains it even earlier and continues that and maybe someday we finally push it all the way back and there isn't this lingering thing that's existing out in society. Long game. I love a long game. So we are here for that.

[Lindsay Kite]

Totally. Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

We're fighting that hard fight. But Lindsay, thank you for joining me. Thank you for being on. Is there anything else you want to make sure you want everybody to hear that you feel is so, so important?

[Lindsay Kite]

I would say that I would put this all in the this model of body image resilience. I mentioned that word. And I just want to point out that the last things we were just talking about, you know, wanting to be able to feel good and make choices that help you feel more comfortable rather than more at odds with your body, all of that fits in this model of body image resilience where we start out what we call a state of normative discontent where most of us feel pretty crappy and uncomfortable in our bodies, our body image is poor. Then we are always faced with what we call these disruptions to your body image. Something that makes you question or rethink your relationship with your body. So it might be comments from another person about how you look. It could be going through a breakup, pregnancy. Really anything that makes you change your relationship or your view of your own body, we are forced to respond to those things. So some of us will respond and try to feel okay and ease that shame that we feel by numbing ourselves. And I call that sinking deeper into shame. So maybe you numb yourself through disordered eating or through compulsive over exercise or abuse of alcohol or drugs or anything like that. Cutting self harm fits in that category. The other things, like things you just mentioned where you're trying out the latest fashion trends or you are planning for the next cosmetic procedure, maybe you're getting Botox, maybe you're saving up for breast augmentation or whatever the thing is that you think you need to fix. All of that is a way we try to keep ourselves, keep that shame at bay and just stay comfortable and stay in that comfort zone. Unfortunately, those things don't last very long. So even if you do get the Botox and you do get the new fashion, whatever you do go on the liquid cleanse for the weekend, it doesn't ultimately solve your problem. Because we come back to the same place we always were, that normative discontent, and we're always going to be disrupted from that state of normative discontent. The way out is to start building your body image resilience. So when you're faced with a disruption, the next time you read a negative comment about yourself, you see a video or a picture of yourself that you hate, if you gain weight because of a health problem or whatever, the thing is, that's when you're disrupted, your shame is at the surface and you can choose how you respond to that. You could do the same things you've always done, and maybe it's through prescription drugs or self harm or a crash diet, or you could say, I don't want to be in that same cycle for the rest of my life. I don't want to slap a band aid on it. I instead want to build these skills to be able to respond better this time and next time and next time and next time. And it gets easier every single time. That's what I want people to know. You might still be struggling now at this, at your old age, but you don't have to struggle this much the next time a disruption comes along. And that is if you take the time now to learn how to come back to your body as your home, to see your body as your ally instead of your enemy. And you do that through building up your media literacy, learning to question media images, learning to curate your social media feeds and all of the images that you take in because they are teaching you what is valuable and what makes you okay or not okay every single day. You need to use your body as an instrument instead of an ornament. Learn how your health and fitness really can be defined personally for you and how you can build that and grow it in ways that are really empowering. There are 10,000 other things you can do. I would highly recommend starting with my book More than a Body. Your body is an instrument, not an ornament. There's a workbook that goes along with it called the Official Workbook for More Than a Body that Lexi and I just published last year. And it has these daily tips and strategies that literally walks you through this process to build your body image resilience. And there's 10,000 other ways. You could follow us online at BeautyRedefined to see some of those other tips in action. But I just want people to know this is achievable, this is doable. I'm almost 40. I'm 39, from a very, very young age, was so self conscious, so fixated on how I looked and just felt disgusting. And I sit here today, bigger than I ever thought I'd be at this age. I'm still single. I. I have a great life. I say those things thinking that if I saw myself, my 16 year old self, if I knew that I was going to weigh this much and be single and whatever other things, I would be horrified. But I sit here truly at peace, happy, feeling great, feeling successful in all of these ways, regardless of how I look. And I am able to be at peace because I have built my body of body image resilience by facing these disruptions head on and proving to myself that I am fine, that I am okay and I am at home in my body and I know everyone can do the exact same thing. So that's what I'll leave you with. A long winded way of saying that you are fine and you're gonna do great.

[Morgan Huelsman]

No, it's perfect. It's a testament. You're not only preaching it, you practice it. You're living the lifestyle that you want other people to be able to also live. I love the work that you guys are doing and thank you for shouting all those things out and, and sharing just all the different pieces. I think it's helpful in our journeys as we continue to fight the good fight and keep fighting for ourselves. I think that's very important. So thank you for being here. Thanks for talking with me.

[Lindsay Kite]

Of course. Thank you.

[Morgan Huelsman]

If you're new to this podcast, every episode features a different topic that I've found are very important to discuss through ways of experts to give us tools and an understanding. And then friends who share their journeys of hardship. We've talked friendships, careers, dating, grief, therapy, relationships, mental health, confidence, you name it. As always, thank you for being here and I'll talk to you all next week.

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