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The Bobby Bones Show
MOVIE MIKE: Top 5 Interviews of 2025: Finn Wolfhard of Stranger Things, Weapon’s Director Zach Cregger, Sinner’s Director Ryan Coogler, and more!
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Podcast Announcer
This is an iHeart podcast, guaranteed human.
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Greg Tillman
From the Nashville Podcast Network.
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Tom Basdon
This is Movie Mike's Movie Podcast.
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Movie Mike
Hello and welcome back to Movie Mike's Movie Podcast. I am your host, Movie Mike. We've done it, folks. The end of another year. 2025 is in the books. What a year for movies. About to get into my top five interviews of the year. But before we do that, let's look back. It's now been six years of doing this podcast. Started back December 2019. And what a way we've come. I remember being so nervous to sit down to record my first episode. I did so much prep. Probably sounded like I was talking a mile a minute on that first episode at times. I still do that. I was on an interview. Speaking of interviews I've done this year, somebody was like, man, you are talking so fast in this. And I don't realize I'm doing it, but I get so excited and so behind the scenes on that. I do a lot of press junkets where I go in and there are a bunch of other people in this zoom waiting room all waiting in line to go and talk to these people who are probably talking to, at least when I do them, two hours worth of people or so. So when you get in there, you only have five, sometimes, if you're lucky, ten minutes with them. And I'm very appreciative of that time. I do get with him, but I know I have to go in. I have to establish a quick who I am and what I want to get out of. It is some good stuff for you guys. When I only have five minutes, I'm like, I gotta waste very little time getting this question out and just rock it. But I remember that person being like, man, you are talking so fast. And that flashed me back to when I first started this podcast where I felt I just needed to get so much information. And I think over the years, if you've been here from the beginning or hopefully you've heard me get better at this. And I think a lot of that is me just caring less as far as being so worried about how people are going to judge me, which I cared a lot about early on. But now I know if you've been here for this amount of time, you are rocking with me. You are part of the movie crew. So thank you for that. It's been a really interesting six years of doing a podcast. Looking back right before 2019, I thought, man, movies are going to be this good forever. That was. That was last really great year in movies. And then boom, 2020, everything shut down. And to think I started this podcast right before movies were taken away from us. I still remember that last movie I went to go see March of 2020 onward. Pretty mid Pixar movie, but that was the last thing I ever experienced and then had to shift how I did this podcast. So a lot of that growth was from me not having new movies to talk about and learning how to do these movie history episodes. And hopefully you enjoy format that I really feel works the best because we go past, present and future a lot of movie history in that early segment depending on what it is. Or we recap all the movies we've seen in the last month and then we have the present with the movie review and of course the future with the trailer park. So hopefully you enjoyed that. If you think maybe we should change things up a little bit or some things you want to hear on the podcast, let me know. I always want to know what you want to hear because that's what I do this show. So hit me up on any socials or the old school way movie mike d@gmail.com But I just wanted to say because I really mean it to anybody who makes this podcast a part of your week no matter when you listen, if you let episodes build up and then run through them, or if you go back every single Monday on the feed and hit play. I appreciate you and I do these interviews because I want to learn more about the things that I talk about every single week because a lot of it is just my perceptions of things and my feelings on things. But I enjoy actually getting to talk to the people who make this art that we consume. I love talking to directors because I believe they are the next real rock stars that are going to be so essential in the era of movie making that we are going into with all these things, with AI and all these companies being bought in this world of uncertainty where I feel like celebrity status isn't what it used to be, that just because you have a big name doesn't mean that movie is going to do well. I think where the industry is really going to evolve is with having visionaries who know how to make a movie that is a spectacle and know how to create something, whether it's a moment, whether it's a story, whether it's a character that people are really going to connect with. I think it takes a great director now to really drive home a great box office hit that is significant and noteworthy. Aside from that, the movies that are going to do well are big animated Movies, which, if you look at the last few movies this year to earn over a billion dollars, they've all been animated movies. So you either have to have a great director, and oftentimes when you look at your favorite movies from the year, it is going to be movies with a really great director. So it's either that or you have an animated movie, which I love as well. But that is why a lot of the times when I do these end of the year episodes, it's conversations with directors. But let's get into the list now at number five, not a director, Robert Englund, AKA Freddy Krueger, who I did get to talk to for the first time last year. And I will never pass on an opportunity to. To talk to Robert England, because even though he has been living with this character for decades now, he is still so passionate about it and appreciates everybody who tracks him down on the street to get a selfie with him because they love A Nightmare on Elm Street. And he just talks about these movies still so passionately, which somebody like him could be sick of this and not want to talk about a movie he made back in the 80s. What else can you talk about? But every time I've talked to him, he's been so warm and generous with his time. He always gives great insight to the making of those movies. So at number five, I have Robert Englund Brady Makeup took about four hours each day. I wonder, what did you listen to while you were sitting in the chair? Did you get, like, music going to hype you up? Like, what did you do?
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Robert Englund
Well, you know, when we began the series, I wasn't the star of the series yet. I was just the guy under pounds of foam, latex and colostomy bag glue. So I had to surrender to my makeup men and that. So that was David Miller in the. In the early years, and then Kevin Yeager, the great Kevin Yeager. And then the KNB crew, who now, of course, have done, you know, have Oscars for Chronicles of Narnia and created Walking Dead, many other things. So I was sort of. I had to suffer a lot of heavy metal in those early days. Those guys were all headbangers. So there was a lot of heavy metal in the makeup trailer.
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Movie Mike
Did that help you at all to get into character during that process? Like, the heavy metal going. Is that when you kind of start to, like, okay, I'm sinking into this character now, and then you're immediately able to film right after that, or there's some other process to psyching yourself up?
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Robert Englund
No, you know, I. I think that the aggravation of the cold. The cold glue in the morning on my face and the time, you know, spent in the makeup chair and getting poked with those old makeup brushes that had become kind of crusty over the weeks you know, of use. Those guys were cheap skates. You know, they would get to, like, pull a tooth to get a new brush. So everyone, when they touched me up, I was getting poked a lot. And, you know, you kind of feel that, especially around the eyes. So I wasn't in the best of mood. And so that would make me slightly profane. And I would tease those guys or threaten to spit in their coffee, things like that. And. And I could see myself all the time in the mirror because we were using a big makeup mirror. And I would see myself in the mirror, and sometimes I would slip into a voice that I would eventually settle on as Freddie's voice, you know. You know, like, damn it, Kevin or David, get that brush out of my face. And it just worked. And I knew that I could live in that voice. You have to remember, back in those days and on all the films, I didn't have a lot of dialogue every day, maybe one or two lines a day, until later on. Freddie got more verbose as the franchise went on. And I did some narration in parts in Freddy vs Jason. But that's sort of how I found Freddie in the makeup chair, you know, and that began back with David Miller at his studio out in the San Fernando Valley. On the original one, you know, I really sort of found the voice there. In those hours of experimenting with David Miller and creating the makeup, looking back.
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Movie Mike
On the movies, I realized how physical the role of Freddie was. Was that kind of surprising to you, how physical it actually was to become Freddy Krueger?
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Robert Englund
Well, you know, I was an athlete. You know, I surfed all my. I surfed it well into my 60s. And I'd been a gymnast in middle school, and I'd been on the swimming team, you know, in high school and lettered. And so I was an athletic actor, and I'd used a lot of those skills in the theater as well. But with Freddie, what was fun was when I had that makeup on, it sort of made me more or less inhibited, and I was able to kind of dance him a little more and move. Move him differently than I would move as Robert England without makeup. I wasn't afraid to explore the physicality of the character, the stunts. I just did as many of them as I could. That's just sort of a You know, a misguided actor's macho that we all succumb to on the set, you know, where we try to do as much as we can. And, you know, when. When I. When there were big fire stunts, that's not me. I did some fire stunts, but the big ones isn't me. And when you see Freddie flying through the air on fire and things like that, that's not me. But, you know, you know, I did a lot of my stuff. You know, I. You know, I did, you know, everything from fire stunts to underwater stuff. So it was fun, you know, to have a little bit of that I can bring up, you know, and during happy hour somewhere for bragging rights.
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Movie Mike
Well, thank you so much for the time, Robert. This is awesome.
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Robert Englund
All right. Thank you. Thank you.
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Podcast Announcer
Bye.
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Robert Englund
Bye, Mike.
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Movie Mike
At number four, I have the cast of Hell of a Summer that include Finn Wolfhard, who you would know from Stranger Things, which at the time of recording this, I cannot wait until those episodes drop. Maybe I've already seen it at this point when you're hearing this. And, oh, man, I cannot wait for the ending of that. He co directed it with Billy Burke, who was also in the movie, and Fred Heckinger is in it, who was also in Gladiator 2 earlier this year, sat down with them at the Belcourt Theater here in Nashville to talk about how they made this movie. It is available to watch on Hulu. So let's get into it now. The cast of Hell of a Summer. I think the thing to me that really stuck out about this movie, that I don't see a whole lot now, is a good quotable movie. Like, I found myself thinking. Like, I started thinking of whenever your character is kind of, like, sad that he's not the one being killed, because he's like, no, he's probably just killing at random, right? So how did that go from writing everything and then seeing it translate on screen? Like, how is this still funny?
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Billy Burke
That's a good question.
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Movie Mike
How is it still funny? Because you write it and then you're directing it, and then you're seeing all the edits, and then you're thinking, like, now that people are seeing it, like, how can you. Like, is this still even funny to us and everybody else?
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Billy Burke
I mean, it's a good question. And you just have to trust that it was funny to you. And, like, obviously, when you see a joke a million times, it doesn't make you laugh every single time. So sometimes you have that instinct to, like, can I push this further? Do I try to make this funny to me every time I'm watching it. But in my opinion, it's kind of a dangerous game to be playing where it's like, if this really made us laugh as we're writing it and we feel like this is the most sort of, most grounded version of this performance, the, the read of this line that we think worked best, we have to trust it. And then as we screen it for people and get other eyes on it, it's really helpful to see sort of what they're laughing at. And I'd say more often than not, the stuff that we thought was the funniest, like our instincts were right. So I don't know.
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Finn Wolfhard
It's funny.
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Billy Burke
I try not even to think about it as funny all the time. In the edit, I mean. Yeah. And then in the production side of it, we were just talking about that the other night where you. This, the script that these wrote was, was so. It was so funny and in such a grounded, character driven way. And there was, you know, just every scene is quite intentional in that sense. And there is a thing, once you start doing the scenes you kind of have to. Everyone who's in it is also so funny. And I feel like we would play and explore, but at the end of the day, like the movie ends up being kind of like 95% or something of the, of the actual script from the get go. So there, so there is a sort of trust element that Billy's talking about that I think maybe you're asking about in terms of if we found this funny at the outset. Like, you know, it won't always be the shiny thing, but focus on it because it really is, it is the intentional thing here.
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Movie Mike
I love what you said about the movie being so character driven because I think that's also what stood out to me is like I could buy into everybody's personalities and I know how Jason is going to react to something because he's a guy who loves his job. Like, that's kind of what I took away from this. Like, this is somebody who just wants to do his job to the best of his ability and that is what he's kind of here to do. And then you have your character Bobby, who's just like, I gotta be good looking to these guys. So what's the. How do you write really well rounded characters?
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Billy Burke
You write every character as if you're gonna play them in the movie.
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Movie Mike
Yeah, exactly. So is this movie a lot of like, what you guys are like in real life? A little bit, yeah.
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Billy Burke
I like to think that We're a little more self aware than our characters and that's sort of why we're able to make fun of certain aspects of her personality. But I mean, there's definitely. I would say that Finn and I, when we were just sort of joking around, would fall into these caricatures of ourselves, which I'd say sort of became Bobby and Chris. And like, it's a send up of our dynamic and sort of our own personal. I don't, I don't want to say like insecurities or something, but like, there's idiosyncrasies, there's elements of Bobby for sure, that come from my own life that I just find funny and like, I'm not fully committed to. But the fact that I can very easily think like that is concerning to me. Like, it's a little too easy to fall into that sort of mindset. But then I'm not even actually joking about the, like, writing every, like writing every character as if you'd play it. And I think that's something helpful about being an actor and a writer. As we were writing versions of the script, it's like we would do a pass with each character in mind being like, if I were to be sent this character, what would excite me most about playing this part? What would I want to see? And then we'd try to add that. So every character sort of felt fleshed out and had something real and sort of had like a life behind them, even if they're a character who gets killed off very quickly. So it was kind of like a funny, selfish way of being like, yeah.
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Finn Wolfhard
I think it's also just like, you know, just thinking about, you know, there's a lot of young actors out there and. And 99% of stuff that gets sent out just like, I don't know, just doesn't feel right or, you know, it doesn't feel like it has, you know, that the character that you audition for maybe has everything that you want or, you know, the arc that you want. And it was one of those things where we were kind of approaching it.
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Movie Mike
From an actor's perspective and then coming from the horror elements of the movie, which I love. What were some of those movies that you went back and studied and thought, I want to take a little from this movie, I want to take a little from that movie and put it into this.
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Billy Burke
We watched the thing. We watched a lot of the John Carpenter films just because of the blocking of those films and the way that he sort of is able to block and represent Group dynamics and, like, the things specifically this idea of group that's sort of splintering and turning against each other. So that was a reference the first Halloween, obviously. But, like, most of our sort of stylistic references were from comedy movies or from movies that weren't in the horror space. Do you have any that you.
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Finn Wolfhard
Yeah, I mean, you know, like, Shaun of the Dead was a huge one that we looked at. And then, you know, as far as. Even just, like, visual stuff. I mean, we looked a lot about, you know, at, like, the Howling or, like. Like, Dean Cundy's stuff. It was like the DP, I guess, of the 80s. And even. Just, like. Even though not, like, it is nothing like any of that stuff. Like, we would just watch, like, movies that we loved and, like, grew up watching and, like, loved the look of. And, you know, for whatever reason, and this. Like, I watched Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, like, five times, like, in the year that we wrote this. And it has nothing to do with the movie in the slightest. But, like, I don't know, there's some kind of adventure in that movie that I just love so much. And. And in that era as well, like, late 80s, early 90s, and then, you know. Yeah. Scream, obviously. So, like, a lot of different influences coming from kind of all angles.
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Billy Burke
A lot of, like, Coen Brothers stuff, too.
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Finn Wolfhard
Raising Arizona, Exciting was one, too.
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Billy Burke
But then, yeah, like, even with movies like that, there's. They're, like, visually, they're so energetic like that, or Shaun of the Dead. And we didn't want that. This movie to feel like that. So it was like, what can we take those movies without feeling like we're doing those movies? Because it didn't feel right for the script, but.
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Movie Mike
Yeah. Fred, what did you love most about playing Jason? Because he's a character who is so endearing. You rooted for him the entire time, and I feel like you really brought that role to life. What did you love about that role?
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Billy Burke
I really loved how these two wrote him. I loved that in this story, every single character, kind of once the killing starts in the movie, they don't, like, just magically transform into different heroic people. They can only react and figure out their issues by being themselves in their most kind of eccentric and sometimes stubborn ways. And so I. Yeah, I just. I think sometimes, like, you play people that you find also genuinely inspiring. Like, he's someone who is. He's, like, gets. He's in on the. He gets that people. He gets that he can be a joke to people, but also is funny himself. And Also not a joke to himself at the same time. And I felt that those things all.
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Podcast Announcer
Together.
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Billy Burke
It meant something to me and felt.
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Movie Mike
Yeah.
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Billy Burke
Resonant of a lot of people I know and how I feel sometimes. So I really liked that quality. I liked that he was, like, in on the joke, but also not at the same time. I thought that that was, like, a. Yeah. There's so many qualities to him that I really admire and loved playing.
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Movie Mike
I have one final question for you guys. What did it feel whenever you first started to have success? Because, Finn, I remember you when you were in pop music videos. Like, I'm huge into punk rock, Canadian punk rock. And I remember seeing you in those way back then. Like, what does it feel when you just start, like, getting those first roles, getting those first projects, and you just feel like this actually might be a reality? My dream.
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Finn Wolfhard
Yeah, we got to talk about Canadian punk rock after this. But I would say, I mean, that's kind of. I was just happy doing that, like, even as, like, a little kid, being able to be a part of these cool indie projects, like music videos for cool bands that I loved and student films, and, like, I just love doing it and being on set, and it just kind of snowballed, and all those sets inspired me to direct and want to direct, and I feel like, you know, we made this film all together and specifically when me and Billy started writing it and, like, that feeling, even though we made it, you know, with, like, a bigger crew and it wasn't, like, a student film, it still had that energy. Like, it still had that sort of vibe that I could feel when I was that young on set and just looking at all these amazing kind of young artists, like, starting their careers, and to me, that's what I'm always chasing. And sometimes you find it in every. I feel like you find it in every set in some way, so. But it was definitely felt great. Like, I loved doing all those videos.
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Movie Mike
Well, this has been great. It's also confirmed my feeling that you guys are all, like, real friends in real life, because that comes across in the movie. So I hope everybody goes to see it and can feel that as well.
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Billy Burke
Thank you so much, man.
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Movie Mike
Thanks for the time.
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Tim Key
Appreciate it, guys.
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Podcast Announcer
You know, the shade is always shadiest right here. Season six of the podcast Reasonably Shady with Gisele Bryant and Robyn Dixon is here dropping every Monday as two of the founding members of the Real Housewives Potomac. We're giving you all the laughs, drama, and reality news you can handle. And, you know, we don't hold back. So come be reasonable or shady with us. Each and every Monday, I was going through a walk in my neighborhood. Out of the blue, I see this huge sign next to somebody's house. Okay, the sign says, my neighbor is a Karen. No way. I died laughing. I'm like, I have to know. You are lying. Humongous, y'. All. They had some time on their hands. Listen to Reasonably Shady from the Black Effect podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the hit podcast Family Secrets.
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Movie Mike
We were in the car like a rolling stone came on and he said, there's a line in there about your mother. And I said, what? What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have.
- [22:51]
Podcast Announcer
I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened. These are just a few of the moving and important stories I'll be holding space for on my upcoming 13th season of Family Secrets. Whether you've been on this journey with me from season one or just joining the Family Secrets family, we're so happy to have you with us. I'll dive deep into into the incredible power of secrets, the ones that shape our identities, test our relationships, and ultimately reveal who we truly are. Listen to Family secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Poynter, Chair of Women's health and Gynecology at the Adria Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you. 100% of women go through menopause. It can be such a struggle for our quality of life. But even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it? The types of symptoms that people talk.
- [24:05]
Tim Key
About is forgetting everything. I never used to forget things.
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Billy Burke
They're concerned that one, they have dementia.
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Movie Mike
And the other one is do I have adhd?
- [24:14]
Podcast Announcer
There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better, to have less pain, to have better mood, and also to have better day to day life. Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr. Elizabeth Poynter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening. The moments that shape us often begin with a simple question. What do I want my life to look like now? I'm Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford and on Therapy for Black Girls we create space for honest conversations about identity, relationships, mental health and the choices that help us grow. As cybersecurity expert Camille Stewart Gloucester reminds us, we are in a divisive time where our comments are weaponized against us. And so what we find is a lot of Black women are standing up and speaking out because they feel the brunt of the pain. Each week we explore the tools and insights that help you move with purpose, whether you're navigating something new or returning to yourself. If you're ready for thoughtful guidance and grounded support, this is the place for you. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Kelly and some of you may know me as Laura Winslow. And I'm Telma, also known as Aunt Rachel. If those names ring a bell, then you probably are familiar with the show that we were both on back in the 90s called Family Matters. Kelly and I have done a lot of things and played a lot of roles over the years, but both of us are just so proud to have been part of Family Matters. Did you know that we are one of the longest running sitcoms with a black cast? When we were making the show, there were so many moments filled with joy and laughter and cut up that I will never forget. Oh girl, you got that right. The look that you all give me is so black. All black people know about the look. On each episode of welcome to the Family, we'll share personal reflections about making the show. Yeah, we'll even bring in part of the cast and some other special guests to join in the fun and spill some tea. Listen to welcome to the Family with Telma and Kelly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [26:30]
Movie Mike
At number three, I have the cast of the Ballad of Wallace island, which I believe is one of the most underrated movies of the year. And I'm not just saying that because they did this interview with me, but Tom Basdon and Tim Key are so great together. And the movie is about Tim Key's character, who is a guy who wins the lottery and uses his money to reunite his favorite folk band to come out to his island and play a private concert for just him. Nobody else. Just him. And Carrie Mulligan is the other member of the indie folk duo. They haven't talked in a really long time. This Is them reuniting to make a little bit of money. There's a lot of drama, there's some heartfelt moments, there's some comedic moments, there's music. It has all the things that, that I look for in a small independent picture that felt like it was just made to put a smile on your face and maybe a couple of tears depending on your level of emotion. But let's get into this one. The cast of the Ballad of Wallace Island. Does it feel weird to you guys that I feel like I know each of you after watching this movie?
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Tom Basdon
I think that's terrible cuz my character is quite specific at the movie.
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Movie Mike
That's what I wanted to know. How much, how much of yourself did you put into each of your characters at all?
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Tom Basdon
Well, I'm zero, but do you want to.
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Tim Key
I think there's a huge amount of Tim in Charles and there's a fair bit of me and Herb.
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Tom Basdon
I would say he was asked this last night and I thought we haven't talked about this, but that was an incredible insight when he said that his character, his 17 year old himself and my character is his mother at the time. And I think I know his mother love his mother to pieces. But yeah, I can see there's a lot of his mother in my character.
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Movie Mike
You guys both have a background in comedy, which I've toured doing stand up. The thing about doing stand up is you get an immediate reaction, you know, if a joke is good or not, based on how the audience responds when you put out a movie, what is that like now when the movie's coming out, people are starting to watch it, you're starting to hear rumblings of reviews. How is that different from that instant comedy approach?
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Tom Basdon
It's totally different and kind of mind blowing. The first time we saw the film was in Sundance and I think with any kind of new stand up show, it just starts as a tiny acorn in front of 30 or 40 people and gradually grows and you gradually work out what works and what doesn't and improve it and get it better and better. By the end of it, you might be playing to quite a big room, but with complete assurance that everything sort of works. Whereas with this we didn't have any screenings at all. We didn't know what exactly we had. We knew we liked it, but we didn't know, you know, exactly how much would sort of grow to be more affectionate of our own movie. The first time we saw it was in front of 1400 people and it's kind of petrifying. Because, you know, if you could be sitting, it could be a very long hour and a half. You know, you're waiting in that first 90 seconds to see whether this movie can create any kind of a connection with an audience. You hope it will, but, yeah, that is the difference. There's no. You get it. You get everything all at once. Right at the end, when all of the work has been done and you're just sort of praying that people will like it.
- [29:46]
Movie Mike
And how does that feel, watching yourself back for the first time at Sundance, seeing, like, oh, like, that's my performance. I'm seeing people reacting here, like, are they good? Is this emotion going to come across?
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Tim Key
I mean, it's. Yeah, it's really exciting. And, I mean, I always just found it very moving when I was watching it somewhere. I don't like watching stuff that I'm in very much.
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Tom Basdon
Yeah, if you see his body of work.
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Movie Mike
Isn't that weird, though, in the creative space where it almost feels weird to take in your own work, something you work so hard on, and you're like, if I sit around listening to my own jokes or watching my own movies, it feels like I'm self absorbed here, but it's like, I'm proud of this.
- [30:21]
Tim Key
I don't know if it's self absorption as much as you just want to sort of. You just want to focus on the thing that you're working on, in a way. And once you've done it and you've finished it, it's lovely to talk about it and it's lovely to sort of see people enjoying it. But in a way, it can be quite torturous to watch stuff and go, oh, that could have been a bit better. Or I could have done that there, or I could have, you know. And I think that's what's funny about when we watch the film now, because we've both come from. From comedy. I think it's actually a really good thing that we didn't watch it with audiences at a point where we had the chance to go back into the edit. Because I think we'd have put some jokes back in, is the truth. I think when you watch it with an audience and they start laughing, you go, oh, they would have loved that joke. And they would have loved that joke that we cut. And you forget that. Actually, what you're doing is you're crafting a story that's got to be sort of coherent and it's got to have a certain pace and rhythm to it, and if you start cramming it with jokes, because you can tell that the audience likes certain jokes. You then you unbalance the whole thing. So actually, I'm very glad that we didn't get the chance to fiddle with the film after people had seen it.
- [31:21]
Tom Basdon
We might have been quite greedy and self sabotaging, but our director, he's got a very good eye for it and a very good. He's wiser than us and sort of knows that actually if we get to a certain point in the movie by, you know, 80 minutes, then that would just be much, much better for the movie. And so it doesn't help if us two are saying, be great to have a decent joke about a vacuum cleaner after five minutes.
- [31:47]
Movie Mike
So going in, like, the filming process, talking about like, oh, we would have changed some things. Was everything that's in the movie exactly what was on the page?
- [31:55]
Tim Key
No, no, but. But, you know, a fair bit of it, I think there's obviously, you know, you can tell watching it. I think that there is a fair bit of improv, particularly that first act between. Between Herb and Charles. You know, there's. There's scenes where they go quite loose and they. And we. And we sort of play around a bit. But a lot of it is pretty, you know, it's pretty tightly written and we wanted to kind of. We wanted to be able to sort of drive the story on at certain times in the film and didn't want it to feel loose at all. So, you know, in the edit, you're kind of trying to calibrate when you. When you want little periods that feel quite meandering and feel quite characterful, but nothing much is happening. And periods when suddenly you go through the gears and a lot happens in the space of five or so minutes.
- [32:39]
Tom Basdon
I'd say most of the improv is. A lot of the improv is. Instead of a little interaction that's two lines long, those lines might just get chopped into five bits and just happen really, really quickly. More like what a conversation would be like. So you get. I think, yeah, if it was written like that, it would be so weird on the page, I think. So we know exactly what we want to say. And then after we've done it a couple of takes, maybe it then becomes a little bit more detailed.
- [33:06]
Tim Key
I think that's true. I think. I think it's. It's like a blueprint for us that we stick to pretty closely.
- [33:11]
Tom Basdon
But we.
- [33:12]
Tim Key
We couldn't. Other actors couldn't do it because it's not like we say the exact words as they're written because it just wouldn't kind of feel right.
- [33:19]
Tom Basdon
But then when the other actors come in, they can do it because they're just really good at acting. Yeah, that's true. It's not like Carey Mulligan is of kind. Kind of going, now, how on earth are you doing this?
- [33:30]
Movie Mike
That brings me to my next question. With the scenes with Carrie and you, petrifying, figuring out the songs, you know, reuniting after all this time, how much of that was actually you two learning those songs for the first time?
- [33:43]
Tim Key
I mean, you're very perceptive, like it was.
- [33:48]
Tom Basdon
To what extent hadn't you prepared for that scene? We hadn't.
- [33:52]
Tim Key
We hadn't had a lot of time. The mad thing was that Carey turned up the evening before she started shooting and she brought her baby, who was a few weeks old, maybe seven, eight weeks old. And, you know, and as soon as she was there, she threw herself into it. And we, you know, was very happy to kind of talk through character and rehearse some stuff and try out the songs and all these things, but we didn't have a lot of time and we just had to kind of go with our gut a little bit and what felt right and just, you know, as you say, hope that you can organically create an atmosphere as two actors that feels very, very close to what the two characters are doing. And I think we did do that, but it's a risk, you know, you don't quite know what you're going to get. But that is what's sort of lovely about it, I think, for us. And was particularly nice during the shooting, was it was. It was a genuine surprise to all of the crew and to Tim, like when we started playing songs in front of him. You'd never heard us play songs before.
- [34:52]
Tom Basdon
No. So that's that first time you see my character listening to their music. That's also the first time my nature's character. My character in real life, me. Yeah, yeah, I. Is the one I'm looking for. That's the first time I had heard it as well.
- [35:08]
Movie Mike
That is the moment that hit me the most emotionally. Seeing you react to your love. Yeah. In the. In the first moment when you hear it. And then also at the concert performance.
- [35:16]
Zach Kreger
Where.
- [35:17]
Movie Mike
Where. Where do you go to there? Because I could feel the backstory of your character come out of what's. What he's been through. But where do you go to as an actor to get that performance?
- [35:27]
Tom Basdon
Yeah, well, I don't know. I mean, actually, that first time where I see them around the dinner table. I think there's a lot going on. I feel like for me and Tom, that we are. We are quite kind of passionate about this project. It's taken a long time to come to fruition. I think all of that is going into it. So when they're. When they're singing, I loved hearing them sing. But also there's a slight pinch yourself moment. That movie is being made and that Carey Mulligan is in front of you singing with your pal. And the music's so nice. And I think it was a real moment for all of us where the crew were really invested. We were shooting it really quickly. Probably only did that take about that. That scene about two or three times. And Griff, the director is like behind the camera, just. You can see that he's kind of like welling up. It's kind of a moment for all of us. So, yeah, there wasn't really a great deal of acting. It's just sort of. This is. It was quite a moving moment. I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't drawing on other times where, you know, beloved folk duos had sung to me. This is insane that this is happening. So it kind of came. I think if it was hard to draw emotion, I think I'd struggle. It sort of came quite naturally.
- [36:42]
Movie Mike
Can you guys speak on that a little bit? Because I don't think people realize not only how hard it is to get a movie greenlit, how hard it is to get a movie made, but to get a movie in theaters and to be here, sitting here today talking about that, like, hearing you reflecting on that moment on the set, which is huge.
- [36:56]
Tom Basdon
Yeah.
- [36:57]
Movie Mike
Like, how important is it to support a movie like that?
- [37:01]
Tim Key
Well, I think it's vitally important and I think it's been so lovely for us to go to screenings this last week and see these full cinemas of people just really enjoying it, but also genuinely, you know, surprised by this story that they knew nothing about. And going into a cinema completely blind, you know, not seeing a reboot or a sequel or something that they kind of know what it is. After five minutes they're seeing a completely new story and just going with it, just being taken up by it and being carried along by the other people in the room. And there's something that's just magical about that. And, you know, I'm quite greedy for it. I think having seen it, you know, experienced it the last few days, I just feel like I just really want everyone to see it that way.
- [37:45]
Tom Basdon
Yeah. Yeah. I think we don't take it for granted. I think, you know, we do lots of different things in lots of different areas, live and tv. And I think you sort of know when you're in doing this one that we've kind of. Something is connecting. And I feel very lucky that, I mean, this could not see the light of day. We could make it. Obviously, the first thing is no one could have filmed it because no one likes the script. Once it's filmed, there's a chance it's a movie which not many people see. So to see it playing in a cinema is kind of. I don't think we take it for granted. No, I don't think we do take it for granted.
- [38:17]
Tim Key
Of course not.
- [38:18]
Tom Basdon
It may never happen again for us.
- [38:20]
Movie Mike
Something else that stuck out was the wardrobe. I feel like wardrobe gets overlooked. Like, nobody gives love to the wardrobe. But for actors, does that put you in the mindset of your character of, like, when you put on the clothes they're wearing to kind of transform into them?
- [38:34]
Tom Basdon
Yeah, the first time we did it was with the short film, which we've seen, like, several times over the years. And. Yeah, that's definitely my dad's cardigan. Where I must have, like, gone home for the weekend right before shooting and just raided his. His wardrobe, basically. So it kind of feels like. Yeah. Sort of sentimental watching that one and this one they had seen at the wardrobe department, that short film. And then they just created. Yeah. Beautiful. I mean, weirdly, my Charles costume is also Herb's costume for the majority of the film because he gets wet and has to go into my clothes. So it's kind of a sea of these. Yeah. Charles Heath clothes. And it looks. Yeah, I agree. When you. Yeah, it. They've done a really great job on the costume.
- [39:18]
Tim Key
Yeah, I think you're right, though. I think that people often focus on costume when it's like Sci Fi or something or like Wicked or something, where it's just like completely sort of otherworldly kind of costume, as opposed to characterful costume, which is just. Just clothes that exist in the world, but they're just selected in such a way. They tell you so much about the character. Yeah, and I love that about. Particularly Charles's costume in this. The kind of the cardigans with the whale embroidered into.
- [39:44]
Movie Mike
I say, I saw your green cardigan. I'm like, I gotta find that. Like, I want to wear that.
- [39:48]
Tom Basdon
Yeah, that first. The first shot of when you see Charles for the first time, facing away from camera, putting the record on. That's a pretty spectacular cardigan. Yeah, it Is it's doing a lot of whale on the back.
- [39:59]
Finn Wolfhard
Yeah.
- [39:59]
Tom Basdon
There was talk at some point of that being merch, so I'll look into that.
- [40:04]
Tim Key
That. That exact one. Or getting loads of them.
- [40:07]
Tom Basdon
I mean, merch can't just be one card commercial. Getting loads of them is Right. The bedrock of merchandise.
- [40:15]
Tim Key
Okay.
- [40:16]
Movie Mike
Was Maguire, Mortimer based on any real duo? Because I have an affinity for anything 2010s. Like, that was when I was in college. That's like the music I go to when I need to feel comfort. Was it based on a specific band?
- [40:27]
Tim Key
I mean, I'm the same. I'm sort of very much. You know, sometimes in my head I still think it's kind of 2010, and I forget in terms of the lot of the music that I'm sort of, you know, is kind of glued to my brain. It's sort of from that period. The. No. No specific bands, I think, but people like maybe Gillian Welch and Dave Rawlins, that kind of like double act and, you know, I don't know, really a little bit of David Crosby and Roger mcguin kind of like, you know, those kind of groups where there was a sort of falling out. Buckingham Nicks a little bit. You know what I mean? Like that kind of bands who were together and then fellow fellow fell out again. But yeah, in terms of the kind of sound, certainly sort of that, I don't know, sort of Ryan Adams kind of like 2010 sort of period, that kind of influenced me quite a lot, I think.
- [41:15]
Movie Mike
Well, I love the movie. I hope everybody goes to watch it. I really appreciate the time. It's been really great hanging out with you guys.
- [41:20]
Tom Basdon
Really nice to speak to you.
- [41:21]
Movie Mike
Thanks so much.
- [41:22]
Tom Basdon
Thank you.
- [41:23]
Movie Mike
At number two, I have director Greg Tillman and retired FBI agent Walter Lamar. They were a part of a NETFLIX documentary that came out earlier this year called Oklahoma City Bombing American Terror. And before this, I hadn't really talked to a lot of people who made and were a part of a documentary, just because I focus on stories that are not real. But I thought maybe this could be something that people could connect with. And it ended up being one of my favorite conversations I've ever had. And it was so much different to handle because normally when I talk to people about their work, it's all fictional things. You can ask them anything about any character or any ideas behind why you put this in. But when it comes to documentary films, it is so much different because you are talking with people who are actually involved in. And in this case, a really traumatic event. And the reason this documentary came out is because it was the 30th anniversary of the 1995 bombing of the building in Oklahoma City, which was one of the deadliest acts of domestic terrorism in United States history. And Walter was a part of that. He was a part of the rescue. And Greg did an amazing job of highlighting the story, highlighting the heroes, not glorifying the villain and getting that real human reaction and being very cautious of the fact that you were talking to people who witnessed probably the worst things ever. And for a lot of these people, including Walter, was the worst day of their life. And I think I had to go about this interview a little bit differently, knowing that some of these things may be hard for him to talk about. So he even gets emotional in this interview. If you've not seen it on Netflix, maybe missed it earlier this year, but it is called Oklahoma City Bombing American Terror. Let's get into this interview. I was completely moved by the documentary and I was born in Texas in 1991, so I really don't remember a whole lot as a kid. For me, watching this documentary was learning all the details in full from beginning to end. And it was really powerful to me. So, Greg, I'll start with you. Why do you think it's so important right now, about 30 years after it, for people to watch this documentary and learn about it?
- [43:41]
Greg Tillman
You know, I'm going to throw to Walt. Walt was there when it was, when it happened. He was an FBI agent in Oklahoma City and he did some extraordinary and heroic things that day. And Walt. Yeah, go ahead.
- [43:53]
Walter Lamar
Well, thanks, Greg. The timing of this documentary is important and it's. It's important because of the messages that the documentary conveys. It's a powerful graphic reminder of the consequence of hate. And when you think about those that are consumed by hate, they lose trust in everything. They have no trust in anything or anybody. And when you have no trust, the enemy is around every corner. So we have to be very mindful of that and paying attention to the messages of this documentary that the consequence of hate, the importance of having trust. But the more important message is the power of coming together. Mike, you mentioned having previewed the documentary, so you know exactly what I'm talking about. I think that message was loud and clear throughout the documentary. I think Greg and his team did an amazing job conveying that all important message.
- [44:54]
Movie Mike
I think that is something I took away from watching it is sometimes I struggle with anything that is true crime or something focused on a situation. When lives are lost. I find it hard to view that as entertainment. And it's hard for me to say that this, this documentary was entertaining, but it's so powerful in a way that it's not the subject matter that I'm entertained by. It's the fact that there was so much humanity that happened that day and so much that I saw, how people reacted to it. That was really inspiring for me to see.
- [45:23]
Greg Tillman
Well, that makes me happy to hear, you know, I think it's certainly a dramatic story, you know, and there are thousands of ways you can tell the story because unfortunately, so many people were impacted by it, you know. So our job was to find a handful of people who were hopefully involved in the kind of the moments that were most intense over the next 72 hours. And we were really fortunate to do that. You know, we found several people who were right in the heart of what was happening all through that next three days. Walt was one of those guys, you know, and what's amazing to me about a lot of the people we met and talked to in this thing is, you know, you could understand most people just running away from a building that's just blowing up in the middle of your city in the heartland of America, you know, but there are so many people in Oklahoma City that day who did exactly the opposite. They turned around and they ran right to the building. You know, there was a, A nurse, Rebecca Anderson, 37 year old woman, who ran into the building to try to help people. And she actually wound up dying because it was so dangerous in there. Something fell and hit her. You know, the whole building was just in shambles. Nobody knew if it was going to fall over. You know, as Walt says in the documentary, he doesn't know if he's going to see his kids again when he goes into that building to try to help people. All these people kind of discovered this hero inside them that they may not have known was there unless they'd face something like this. And I found it really inspiring to hear all of those stories.
- [46:45]
Movie Mike
Walter, can you talk about that? Because in the documentary you say that you saw it on tv, you saw the smoke and then immediately went into action. Can you take us back to that day of you watching it first on TV before you went there, you know.
- [46:58]
Walter Lamar
Mike, and you know, I'm sure that you recognize that, that folks like myself that were there that day, that have been impacted by this. And I've thought about it, because when things like this, when we are, are there. I was at the Branch Davidian standoff at Waco, Texas today that the compound burnt Down. I was there surrounded by the smell of burnt flesh, seeing skeletal remains that were just hours before were human beings. And now they're. So those things are all put away and they're put away in a box. Try to put them back here so you can continue to function, you can continue to work, you can continue to do your job. So being interviewed for the documentary, that box had to be taken out and every detail had to be talked about. So it was. It was pretty tough. And even sitting here today with you, I have to tell you, and it's. And it's kind of a tough thing to say. I'm on the verge of tears even talking about it right now and having just previewed the documentary and seeing stuff that. That day, you know, when we're looking back at that footage from that day that Greg and his team pulled together and brought there to take us back to that day, I was right there. And some of the things that I saw in that footage, my mind focused down and blocked out so that I was able to continue to do what I had to do, and that was to go in the building and looking for survivors. But that morning, I was 15 miles away and I felt and heard the blast. I went in immediately into the house. And you're much too young to remember these days, but when we had sonic booms and they were pretty frequent and prevalent, I thought maybe it was a sonic boom. So I asked my wife, I said, did you hear that? She said, I did. I felt it and heard it, turned on tv, saw the plume of smoke, got my car and headed downtown. But it's only dawned on me just within the past couple of days that when I left the house that morning, My entire life was going to change that day. And when you try to try to quantify what that really means, I mean, I continue to function, I continue to live, I continue to be a husband, a father and so on, and do my job at the FBI. But there was change and that. And I thought about that when I went back home at 4 o' clock in the morning that next morning, I realized what that. That my life had been changed. Just like all the rest of the people that were there that day, Every person that was there, every person that was impacted by this, and now even the people that will see this documentary, it will change them in some way.
- [49:55]
Movie Mike
I really appreciate you being so vulnerable there. I can hear it in your voice, I can see it in your face. And I think that was really what I learned about your story by watching this documentary, was the Bravery you had that day, I can only imagine how that is looking back, even just have memories of it. But having to see the actual footage from that day, I imagine that's super powerful. So I really appreciate you sharing that with me.
- [50:16]
Greg Tillman
It's interesting because it's not just bravery back then, but it's also the bravery that all the people that we talked to in the documentary had to come and sit down with us. You know, Walt just described. You got to go back into that moment, you got to open it up and, you know, re experience it. And some of the people that we talked to, like Dr. Carl Spangler, who was an emergency room resident who ran right to the building right after it happened, and you know, Renee Moore, who lost her six month old baby in the building, they never really talked much about it to anybody in the media, you know, and so it was really a gift for them to like sit down with us and go back to those moments and share that with us. And yeah, it's incredible to watch people do that.
- [50:52]
Movie Mike
Greg, how do you manage that as a filmmaker of wanting to do this story justice, but also being respectful to everybody involved? Because like you said, some people just don't want to speak about these things or go back and remember some of this stuff.
- [51:06]
Greg Tillman
And we talked, you know, we definitely talked to folks in the, in the build up to shooting who had amazing stories to tell but didn't want to go on camera and do that. And I completely get that. You know, we totally respect that. And, and even when people sat down with us, my job is to. And especially in a thing like this is to just help them tell their story the way they want to. You know, and other than that, I'm not pushing. I'm not trying to get them to tell me something in a more dramatic way. I'm not trying to get them to share something that they don't want to share. I think it's just important to let people tell you their story.
- [51:43]
Movie Mike
Walter, I'm curious. At what age did you decide that you wanted to get into law enforcement? At what age did you know that you wanted to eventually be in the FBI?
- [51:52]
Walter Lamar
You know, well, I'm an American Indian. I'm Blackfeet in Wichita. So we don't have an Indian country. We don't have a lot of role models that are FBI agents. So we don't have Uncle Ben who's an FBI agent, Aunt Susie who's an FBI agent. Somebody in our community who is so. That thought had never even really entered my mind. My mother's father was in law enforcement. My dad was in law enforcement for a period of time. And I was a schoolteacher on the Blackfeet reservation, teaching high school shop. And I went to a conference, and there were two native FBI agents there. And they said, hey, have you ever thought about this? Well, no, hadn't. Well, you should. And I did. And. And there's. It's kind of a. Kind of a long, twisted story, but I'm at the FBI Academy, and I have a total, total and complete lack of confidence because I'm a high school shop teacher, Native American. The rest of my class are attorneys. And one guy's a rocket scientist, and on and on. And I felt so small in that classroom. But once I got through the FBI Academy and I was at my first office, I realized that it was the job that I was meant for, and it was a job that I was made for. I think when Greg mentioned that the bravery and such will. I guess there is a certain amount of that that's in there, but it's about doing your job. You know what your job is to do. You go and you do your job, and you don't think about it being an act of bravery or anything else. You just go do what you're supposed to do. And I feel like that FBI job was what I was supposed to do. And one thing that I will say, and I've mentioned this to Mike, having gone through these interviews now 30 years later, I'm in my 70s, so you start looking and reflecting on things a bit differently. But one of the things. And I think I'm probably absolutely not alone in this, but. And Mike, you mentioned it on the very front end when you talked about the kind of. The dichotomy here of entertainment and information that it's. And so I came to the realization that there is an inner conflict, and there has been for. For 30 years since the bombing. And that conflict comes with the fact that you are not able to tell yourself that you did good. It's hard to pat yourself on the back and say, I'm proud of the person I was that day because of exactly what you mentioned, the tragedy that's involved in that, the things that we all saw that day, the things that we all had to do that day, and to be able to say, good job. It just hasn't been able to come. So, you know, and I'll thank Greg and the rest of the team, the way they did work us through the interviews, how we. How we were allowed space and place in those interviews, and Then subsequent to interviews, that realization finally came to me, and I'm. That's something that I'm going to work on, as silly as it sounds, but to be able to just say to myself, you know, you did good, Walter.
- [54:54]
Movie Mike
It sounds like it's hard for you to take credit for some of your efforts. And as you see me standing or sitting in this studio right now, you might see I'm a big superhero fan. And when I think of the greatest superheroes, the greatest superheroes don't do the job because they need it. They do it because the people need them. And that is what I see in you. Alter you have something inside of you that wants to help other people. And you're doing it not because you want to do it to be praised or renowned. You do it because I feel like there's something inside of you that this is. I know this is the good thing that I need to do, and I need to help people. So just know that I just. By talking to you, watching you in this documentary, I can feel that. And I have just met you and been talking to you, and I feel, like, super proud for you.
- [55:37]
Greg Tillman
Right on.
- [55:38]
Walter Lamar
I'll also say that. And Greg just alluded it to a bit ago, my story is but one of a thousand stories. My story is but one of a thousand stories. And those other people that I know that were in the building that rushed to the building, people that I know that experienced it, you know, my wish would be that their story, all of their stories could be told. Because there was no one hero that day. There was everybody. And that's what I said earlier. The power of coming together. Everybody came together and everybody had a contribution. And those stories are just incredible, and they're amazing. And the stories that Greg and his team were able to tell, but just a few of those. Those. But I'm hoping that people, when they see the. The documentary, that they recognize how many other stories are there.
- [56:28]
Movie Mike
I thought you handled that really well of not glorifying him in any way, but using his voice just throughout. What was most chilling to me, how he had no remorse about anything, and I'd never heard his voice. And I think having that there was important. But again, like, we've been talking about how we struggle with finding things like this, quote, unquote entertaining. I felt like it was important to include that, to tell the full story good.
- [56:52]
Greg Tillman
And I think so too. You know, we didn't want to give him a platform from the grave kind of thing, you know, but it's. And it's Only a slight piece of, you know, that material. So you just kind of get a tiny sense for who he was. But I think what we have in there is very indicative of who this cat was. You know, he was a very sad, empty human.
- [57:08]
Movie Mike
There were a lot of things I learned about his capture by watching this documentary, that when he was captured that they didn't know that it had any connection to it. And it was all because of the license plate that he was driving around. He didn't have a license plate. Could you talk about that a little bit?
- [57:22]
Greg Tillman
Charlie hanger has told that story many times, and I think it does a good job for us. You know, just that he wanted to go downtown like everybody else, you know, in law enforcement, you know, in the 500 mile radius. And he was told, no, stick in your area. You're an oklahoma state trooper, you know, and do your thing out there. And fortunately he did. And then he came up on mcveigh's car without a license plate, pulled him over, started talking to him. And when he asked for McVeigh's driver's license, McVeigh reached for his pocket. He had a windbreaker on, pulled tight across his chest. And that's when hanger saw that he had a holster. And there had just been, just a couple weeks earlier, shooting of a state trooper in oklahoma. So he was on high alert. That's why he reached out, grabbed a gun, and from there, you know, mcveigh was in trouble. He. Nobody knew that he'd done the bombing, but, you know, he was driving without a license plate on his car, and he now had an unregistered gun. So he was going to go in and sit in jail for at least 24 hours at that point.
- [58:17]
Walter Lamar
You know, one thing I'll say about trooper hanger, pulling him over that day is one of the things that I learned working in the FBI, working with a lot of law enforcement agencies and police officers. I call it cop eyes. They develop cop eyes or they have cop eyes, and it's based on instinct and intuition. They see things that we don't always see. And sometimes they see things that they don't recognize overtly, but it's their instinct and intuition. And I think that day wasn't just happenstance that trooper hanger pulled him over. I think his, his, his spidey senses and his cop eyes recognized that there was. That there was something afoot and pulled him over.
- [58:58]
Movie Mike
Walter, what do you hope you are remembered for? You know.
- [59:05]
Walter Lamar
Yeah, Mike, that's a damn good question. What I would probably most hope to be remembered for. And I wasn't always, you know, and I even thought about this when I was thinking about the documentary. When I left the house that morning, my kids were still asleep. I came home, I was a different person. I didn't get a chance to tell them again that I loved them. And that's why I said that in the documentary, that I just. When I was in there, I honest to goodness wasn't sure that I was going to come out. And I thought just had this desire to be able to tell my kids just one more time that I love them. So what I would like to be remembered for, I'd like to be remembered as a good dad and a good papa.
- [59:42]
Movie Mike
I love the documentary. I hope everybody sits down to watch it and really takes all those messages in. I hope everybody learns from all the stories. And I really appreciate the time getting to talk to you guys.
- [59:54]
Greg Tillman
Thank you very much, Mike. Really appreciate it.
- [59:55]
Walter Lamar
Well, Mike, yeah, and I, too, appreciate having the opportunity to visit with you and your viewers.
- [60:02]
Movie Mike
Thank you so much.
- [60:06]
Podcast Announcer
Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the hit podcast Family Secrets.
- [60:10]
Movie Mike
We were in the car like a Rolling Stone came on, and he said, there's a line in there about your mother. And I said, what? What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have.
- [60:23]
Podcast Announcer
I knew something had happened to me, me in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened. These are just a few of the moving and important stories I'll be holding space for on my upcoming 13th season of Family Secrets. Whether you've been on this journey with me from season one or just joining the Family Secrets family, we're so happy to have you with us. I'll dive deep into the incredible power of secrets, the ones that shape our identities, test our relationships, and ultimately reveal who we truly are. Listen to Family secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know the shade is always shadiest right here. Season six of the podcast Reasonably Shady with Gisele Bryant and Robyn Dixon is here dropping every Monday as two of the founding members of the Real Housewives Potomac. We're giving you all the laughs, drama, and reality news you can handle. And, you know, we don't hold back. So come be reasonable or shady with us each and every Monday, I was going through a walk in my neighborhood. Out of the blue, I see this huge sign next to somebody's house. Okay, the sign says, my neighbor is a Karen. No way. I died laughing. I'm like, I have to know. You are lying. Humongous, y'.
- [61:58]
Walter Lamar
All.
- [61:58]
Podcast Announcer
They had some time on their hands. Listen to Reasonably Shady from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Poynter, Chair of Women's health and Gynecology at the Atria Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you. 100% of women go through menopause. It can be such a struggle for alcohol quality of life. But even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it?
- [62:39]
Movie Mike
The types of symptoms that people talk.
- [62:41]
Tim Key
About is forgetting everything. I never used to forget things.
- [62:44]
Billy Burke
They're concerned that one, they have dementia.
- [62:46]
Movie Mike
And the other one is do I have adhd?
- [62:49]
Podcast Announcer
There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better, to have less pain, to have better mood, and also to have better day to day life. Listen. Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr. Elizabeth Poynter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. The moments that shape us often begin with a simple question. What do I want my life to look like now? I'm Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford and on Therapy for Black Girls we create space for honest conversations about identity, relationships, mental health and the choices that help us grow. As cybersecurity expert Camille Stewart Gloucester reminds us, we are in a divisive time where our comments are weaponized against us. And so what we find is a lot of Black women are standing up and speaking out because they feel the.
- [63:43]
Walter Lamar
Brunt of the pain.
- [63:46]
Podcast Announcer
Each week we explore the tools and insights that help you move with purpose. Whether you're navigating something new, are returning to yourself. If you're ready for thoughtful guidance and grounded support, this is the place for you. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Radhi devlukya and I am the host of a really good Cry podcast. This week I am joined by Anna Runkle, also known as the Crappy Childhood Fairy, a creator, teacher and guide helping.
- [64:16]
Movie Mike
People heal from the lasting emotional wounds.
- [64:18]
Podcast Announcer
Of unsafe or chaotic childhoods. We talk about how the things we went through when we were Younger can still show up in our adult lives, in our relationships, our reactions, even in the way we feel in our own bodies. And Anna opens up about her own story. What helped her notice the patterns she was stuck in and how she slowly started teaching her body that it is safe now. So when I got attacked, it was very random. Four guys jumped out of a car and just started beating me and my friend, and they broke my jaw, my teeth. I was unconscious. Then I woke up and I screamed. And I screamed because even though I.
- [64:50]
Movie Mike
Didn'T know who I was or where I was, something in me was just like, hold on, wait.
- [64:54]
Podcast Announcer
They could kill me. And I'm not going to let that happen. I'm not going to let that happen. I'm going to get through this. And I did listen to a really.
- [65:01]
Walter Lamar
Good cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.
- [65:03]
Movie Mike
Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. An honorable mention before we get to number one, director Ryan Coogler, who this year had a smash hit on his hands with Sinners. Like I was talking about earlier, he is a true visionary and somebody now that can make any movie he wants because he's had so much success with Sinners. With the first Creed movie, Black Panther 1, and Black Panther 2 on the horizon, we are looking at Black Panther 3. I put it as an honorable mention because I only really gotta ask him one question, but here we go. Ryan Coogler. Hey, Ryan. You're one of my favorite directors, and I think not only for directing, but writing. And I think something that you're going to be remembered for is the representation. I think that was huge for me. Like In Black Panther 2, having the first major Mexican character in the MCU was, like, amazing. Was that something that you set out to do early on or something that kind of developed over time? The power of representation.
- [66:00]
Robert Englund
It's something that I set out to.
- [66:01]
Movie Mike
Do early on, but it also wasn't something that I consciously thought about, man. Like. Like I grew up in Oakland, California, like in the 90s, when it was.
- [66:08]
Robert Englund
Just an incredibly diverse city, man. Like, I wasn't able to travel because.
- [66:12]
Movie Mike
I didn't have the money to, but.
- [66:14]
Robert Englund
I felt like I had the whole world right outside my door.
- [66:17]
Movie Mike
You know, people from all parts of the world were there and they were.
- [66:21]
Robert Englund
Proud of their cultures, you know what I'm saying?
- [66:22]
Movie Mike
And they would share and we would share with each other. We were over each other's houses, eating.
- [66:26]
Robert Englund
Each other's food and listening to each other's music. That was how I grew up.
- [66:30]
Movie Mike
And when I got enough.
- [66:31]
Robert Englund
Enough means to travel, and I discovered that Oakland really prepared me for what the world was, man, you know what I mean?
- [66:38]
Movie Mike
I got dropped off in Hong Kong, I'll never forget, and I was like, yo, this is like being. This is like being downtown San Francisco. You know what I mean?
- [66:44]
Robert Englund
I almost knew my way around, you know? And for me, if I have this.
- [66:49]
Movie Mike
Ability, this blessing to be able to have a camera and write things that people are going to have an opportunity to go see, I do feel a responsibility to. To do my best to. To.
- [66:58]
Robert Englund
To present the world as it is.
- [67:00]
Movie Mike
You know what I mean?
- [67:01]
Robert Englund
And. And I always find that rewarding when.
- [67:04]
Movie Mike
I'm watching a movie and the world feels like that. So I feel like that's my responsibility to continue to give that to audiences. So it means the world for you to share that with me, bro. And at number one, I have director Zach Kreger, who also had a smash hit at the box office this year with Weapons. Before this, his directorial debut was Barbarian. Next year, he's coming out with a Resident Evil movie. Back in the day, he was part of a comedy troupe and TV show called the Widest Kids. You know, as soon as I just got on the interview to talk to him, I felt like we had been friends for 10 to 15 years. And maybe it's because he has roots in punk rock. And I think when I meet other people who are also fans of the music that I grew up with and grew up probably in a similar way because of our love of a style of music that you kind of had to be weird to be into. Maybe it was a little bit of instant connection there, but he is somebody who has so much attention to detail, and Weapons was a movie that really moved me, had a cultural impact. This year taught us a new way to run. If you haven't seen Weapons yet, it is also on hbo. Max. So let's get into that now. Here is Zach Kreger. What is it like when you wake up and realize you have the number one movie in the country? What is that feeling like?
- [68:18]
Zach Kreger
It is so real. It doesn't feel like. I think maybe somebody might expect it to feel because it's. You're still in your bed, in your skin, in your room, and it's. You know, there's no. There's no new pixie dust sprinkled in the air. You know, it's. You can look at your phone and kind of reinforce that that's happening. And then you put your phone in your pocket and you're still just in your house. So it's a weird thing, you know, it's. I'm happy. Don't get me wrong, I don't, I don't mean to be, you know, poo, pooing, anything, but you're still you. So.
- [68:54]
Movie Mike
So yeah, I think I understand that because I, in my life I've lost a hundred pounds and I was really proud of myself when, I was really proud of myself when I did that. And I thought once I did all the work and lost the weight that I would be suddenly happier. And then I woke up one day and I realized I did it. I don't know if I feel any happier. Is it kind of that same way where you're like, I thought this was going to solve all my problems and this is what I wanted to achieve as a filmmaker and now that I have it, it's like, okay, cool, this is it.
- [69:21]
Zach Kreger
Okay, well, I think, I think maybe, but, but I think there's something deeper under the surface that we have in common.
- [69:27]
Movie Mike
Right.
- [69:27]
Zach Kreger
Where you did something really hard and you are reaping the benefits of that because you probably have more energy and you probably probably have some self esteem rise from that. Right. And I think that, so even though my moment to moment is largely similar than as it was before, I do have like, there is a sense of accomplishment that I think kind of is an underlying vibe that I can recognize as being, as being different. Do you feel that? I know when I got sober I felt that way, you know, I felt like, oh, like things still bother me but like I have this like cushion of self esteem that I've never had before and I only got that after I got over. So maybe, maybe we have that.
- [70:10]
Movie Mike
Yeah, yeah. Feeling the self esteem is a big part of it. I guess I just thought that once I lost all the weight that suddenly all my problems would fix and I'd find a girlfriend and I'd be like, okay, now I get the job.
- [70:23]
Zach Kreger
Like come storming into your living room and like somebody would just give you a raise.
- [70:27]
Movie Mike
Exactly.
- [70:28]
Robert Englund
Oh yeah.
- [70:28]
Zach Kreger
The world doesn't work that way.
- [70:29]
Movie Mike
And I think with you in the creative field that you're always kind of chasing that thing and then sometimes when you have it, you're like, oh man, was this really what I wanted the whole time?
- [70:37]
Zach Kreger
Well, that I don't know because I, I think I've wanted to be a filmmaker since I was like six. And so, so I, you know, there's always maybe a fear that you're going to be like the dog that Catches the mail truck and like, you know, is it going to monkey's paw on me? And by the way, maybe it will. I don't know it. You know, this is all very new, so I could, I could be singing a different song in two years, but, but right now, you know, I'm, I'm in Prague and I'm, I'm making a new movie. And, you know, my wife and I are good and I'm doing okay, so I'm all right.
- [71:07]
Movie Mike
So. I am a huge fan of Post Malone. I had the chance to meet him. I posted a picture of him in my Instagram story, and later I saw that he watched my Instagram story. That's cool. Post Malone watch my Instagram story. That was almost cool than meeting him in some weird way, because, I don't know, I think we're all just, like, fascinated with social media and he watches our stuff. For you, as a filmmaker, do you ever, during the process of making a movie, think, man, I wonder who the most famous person is going to be that is watch my movie. No, who would that be for you, though? Like, oh, man, I really wish they would watch my movie. Like, I've loved this person maybe since I was a kid. I'm a huge fan of them now. Like, if this person watched a Zach Kreger movie, I mean, I don't know.
- [71:46]
Zach Kreger
Brad Pitt, let's say I've always been a giant fan. That would be pretty cool. You know, there's so many people you, you admire, and I could give you 100 names right now that would blow my mind if they saw the movie. I, I don't know. It's funny, like, to, to the idea of being on set and being like, all right, I'm setting up a shot and one day Barack Obama is going.
- [72:09]
Movie Mike
To watch this and I'm really going to impress him with this one.
- [72:12]
Zach Kreger
I do not think that way.
- [72:14]
Movie Mike
For Barbarian. You said you learned to prep the shoot and shoot the prep. What did you learn from weapons?
- [72:20]
Zach Kreger
Great question. I think I learned to, and I'm still learning it. I, I, I, I, I learned. I need to learn to just, like, relax a little bit more. Everybody I'm surrounded by is really good at what they do. The movie's not gonna collapse, you know, we're gonna get it. You know, here's what I learned. My cinematographer said during prep, you know, we're not playing a win lose game here. We only win. And I was like, are you allowed to think that way? Do you think that way? Could I think that way? And like, yeah, that's the attitude, man. Like, I don't need to freak out that if I forget to say something in prep, suddenly everything's going to burn to the ground in production and the movie will be broken. Like, no, the movie's going to win, you know, because it's a good idea and I have talented people and it's going to. It's. We're going to get everything we need to get. And I think when I was making Weapons, I had this fear that that wasn't true. But I think that is I'm allowed to like live in that mindset now.
- [73:17]
Movie Mike
I think one of the most surprising things that I wasn't expecting when watching the movie and even re watching the movie were the moments of comedy where it was kind of unexpected. It was maybe Josh Brolin saying a line like, what the hell? Like what the f or what's going on here? And there was just these moments that kind of popped in the theater where I was like, oh, if you cut this movie differently, do you think it could be a comedy?
- [73:37]
Zach Kreger
Oh, I wonder. I don't know, but I'd love to see someone try.
- [73:42]
Movie Mike
Why is it that people who have maybe roots in comedy like you kind of translate to horror so well, like a Jordan Peele? I'd even put like a John Krasinski in there. Going from having this background in sketch comed where people know them for that and now suddenly have such success in horror. Why do you think that is? How do those two genres kind of have some similarities?
- [74:03]
Zach Kreger
Because I think you have to have an ear for timing and I think you have to be good at surprise. I think every joke is a surprise. Every single one. Every joke, everything you've ever laughed at follows a recipe and a formula, like an algebraic formula. That formula is this. An action with an expected outcome yields an unexpected outcome. Okay, so it's basically just saying you do this, you think you're going to get that and you get a surprise. And I promise you there's not one thing you've ever laughed at in your life that doesn't sort of follow that. And try me, if you ever see me on the street and you think you have one that doesn't follow that formula, come up to me and tell me, and I bet I can beat you, because it just does. And so that someone who's kind of good at that surprise, that like anti rhythm or that little like pop is probably going to be good at scaring you because scares follow the same anatomy, you know, where it's like, you're subverting an expectation. And I'm not sure if it's the exact same, but it's very similar. So it's the same muscle group, is what I'm trying to say. It's like you're good at the same instrument, maybe, is the way I think about it. That was a really mouthful. Bullshit way to describe a simple question.
- [75:18]
Movie Mike
But, you know, one of my favorite things about you is that you were in a punk band back in the day, where you said you would just basically get on the floor and just scream until they told you to stop. But you grew up in the DC punk scene, which I'm a huge fan of punk rock. If you had to create a Mount Rushmore of punk artists, who would be on that Mount Rushmore? Your top four.
- [75:39]
Robert Englund
Wow.
- [75:39]
Zach Kreger
Okay. I'd go Bad Brains, first and foremost.
- [75:41]
Movie Mike
Perfect for dc.
- [75:42]
Zach Kreger
Yeah. I would go Fugazi, probably. I would put. You know, what a great question, dude. I might have to say the Misfits.
- [75:53]
Movie Mike
I love it. Huge Misfits.
- [75:55]
Zach Kreger
Early Misfits, when Danzig was in the band.
- [75:57]
Movie Mike
I don't even consider them the Misfits. After Danzig left, it's like. It's just Danzig.
- [76:01]
Tom Basdon
Yeah.
- [76:02]
Podcast Announcer
Yeah.
- [76:02]
Zach Kreger
And then, like. I don't know. I mean. Oh, God, that's so hard. That's such a hard one, that fourth one.
- [76:09]
Movie Mike
What do you got there?
- [76:10]
Podcast Announcer
Maybe.
- [76:10]
Zach Kreger
Maybe Dead Kennedys. I don't.
- [76:12]
Tom Basdon
I don't know.
- [76:12]
Movie Mike
I feel like that is a classic punk rock list right there. That is.
- [76:15]
Podcast Announcer
I know.
- [76:15]
Zach Kreger
But now I'm mad at myself because those are all, like, obvious, you know, I could get, like, really, like, narrow and niche and say, like, Born against and his hero is gone and. And, like, keep going down that path. But I. I don't know.
- [76:26]
Movie Mike
But Mel Rushmore is the people who are going to be remembered forever. You got to have Danzig's face up there. The Crimson Ghost up there. Is that kind of. I would probably put. When I got into punk rock was late 90s, early 2000s. So I'd put rancid, no effects, Blink 182, and Green Day.
- [76:44]
Zach Kreger
These are all pop punk bands, dude.
- [76:46]
Movie Mike
You don't consider those punk bands too green.
- [76:49]
Zach Kreger
Every band you just named is like pop punk.
- [76:51]
Movie Mike
Okay, so I'll go punk rock. Then I would go Ramones. Can I. Can I take the Ramones?
- [76:56]
Zach Kreger
Yeah, of course.
- [76:57]
Greg Tillman
Yeah.
- [76:57]
Movie Mike
I'd go. See, then I do feel basic, kind of like you did, because I'd go Ramones, Clash, Misfits and Prop Rance. Would you consider Rancid pop punk.
- [77:10]
Zach Kreger
Not as. Pop punk is like Blink 182.
- [77:12]
Tim Key
Wow.
- [77:13]
Movie Mike
You consider rancid pop punk. That is.
- [77:15]
Zach Kreger
I said not as the others, though.
- [77:17]
Movie Mike
You're like, your commercial taste in music. Okay, Forest. I'd probably go Black Flag, though, though.
- [77:22]
Zach Kreger
That's cool. I mean, OP Ivy was like a. That was like the band. That was my gateway drug, you know, and that's basically, you know, that's rancid, practically. So. So I. I get.
- [77:30]
Walter Lamar
I'm not.
- [77:31]
Zach Kreger
By the way, I'm not giving any shade to the bands that you named at all. I'm just saying, like, they were all very similar. They're all kind of living in that same kind of. Kind of like, you know, time and space, you know, no effects. Green Day and, you know, so that.
- [77:44]
Podcast Announcer
That.
- [77:44]
Zach Kreger
Dude. No, no, no problems here. But I'm just saying, like, you made.
- [77:47]
Movie Mike
Me feel so basic now, Zach.
- [77:49]
Zach Kreger
No, no, that's not what I meant to do. I'm sorry.
- [77:52]
Movie Mike
Well, I really appreciate it. It's been awesome to get to talk to you. You are one of my favorite directors. So this is an honor.
- [77:57]
Zach Kreger
Thanks, Mike. It was really fun to talk to you too. Dude.
- [77:59]
Robert Englund
Don't.
- [77:59]
Zach Kreger
Don't hold that against me that I razed you.
- [78:02]
Podcast Announcer
All right.
- [78:02]
Movie Mike
Thanks, man.
- [78:03]
Zach Kreger
All right, buddy.
- [78:04]
Movie Mike
So that is it. The top five interviews of 2025. Coming up later on the podcast, we're going to have Kelsey do her top 10 best books of the year. So if you are looking right now at Books for 2026, maybe you're making the new year's resolution of reading more. Kelsey will have her top 10 that she recommends. After that, we'll start out the new year with my top 10 movies of 2025. I always like to wait until the year is completely done because I hate having any kind of carryover. If a movie comes out in 2025, it has to be on my 2025 list. We have all these great movies coming out on Christmas that I haven't seen yet, so it feels wrong for me to make a full list that embodies the year when there are big movies I haven't seen yet. So if you're wondering why that episode hasn't come out yet, I always wait until the next year starts, so have that to look forward to. But until next time, go out and watch good movies, and I will talk to you later.
- [79:07]
Podcast Announcer
This is an Iheart podcast. Guaranteed human.