TAKE THIS PERSONALLY: She Stayed Silent for 50 Years… Then Took Her Abuser to Court

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Bobby Bones Show – TAKE THIS PERSONALLY: She Stayed Silent for 50 Years… Then Took Her Abuser to Court

Host: Morgan Huelsman (Premiere Networks)
Guest: Darlene Lakowski (author of Shattering Silence)
Date: May 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this emotionally charged episode, Morgan Huelsman sits down with Darlene Lakowski, a survivor of childhood sexual abuse by her older brothers. For 50 years, Darlene kept her trauma secret, only seeking justice in her late 50s. She details her journey from silence and shame to courtroom victory, personal liberation, and advocacy for other survivors. This episode is a raw, inspiring, and educational conversation about trauma, resilience, family dynamics, legal battles, and the ongoing process of healing.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Darlene’s Story: The Beginning of Trauma (03:59–09:04)

• Darlene’s childhood abuse:
  • Abuse began at age 7, lasting until she was 12, perpetrated by her two oldest brothers; each brother’s abuse was separate, but both were aware of each other’s actions.
  • "Brothers who are supposed to protect you, take care of their little sister, instead were abusing me on and off for five years." — Darlene Lakowski (04:27)
• Survival strategies:
  • Darlene "shoved her trauma in a box," adopted overachieving, perfectionism, and control as coping mechanisms.
  • "You can steal my childhood, you can destroy my innocence, but you’re never taking me, and you’re never taking my family." — Darlene (08:51)
• Family context:
  • Upper middle-class, well-respected family; parents pillars of the community; incest was believed to only happen in “other” types of families.

The Burden of Silence (09:47–16:23)

• Secrets and Personal Cost:
  • Darlene held the secret for 50 years, even as she became outwardly successful—a dichotomy between her “public” and “private” selves.
  • The trauma began to harm her adult relationships and well-being.
• Moment of confrontation:
  • After her parents passed away and an argument with one of the brothers, she was triggered to break the silence, texting him:
    • "If you don’t stop behaving like this, I can destroy your life if you want me to... rapist." (15:16)
  • His response: "Go for it." — This arrogance spurred her to stand up for herself.

Family and Societal Dynamics (16:36–19:41)

• Why she stayed silent:
  • Feared destroying her family, and being ostracized or blamed—fears commonly instilled in abuse survivors, especially children.
  • Parent’s status/community perception played a significant role in her decision.

The Legal Battle (19:41–31:03)

• Reaching out to siblings:
  • Darlene emailed the remaining siblings, hoping for apology or validation, instead received a lawsuit from the brother who abused her most violently.
• Trial and Countersuit:
  • The trial spanned two years, causing her PTSD to flare up; she decided to countersue due to his public denials and defamation.
  • Mediation failed—her brother offered her $1(!) to settle, so she pushed for court:
    • "I'm not going to be ashamed. I'm not going to be afraid. And you know what? The truth is on my side." (25:04)
• Courtroom experience:
  • Her six close girlfriends testified by video; her therapist provided contemporaneous documentation.
  • In February 2024, a jury unanimously ruled in her favor in less than an hour, validating her story (29:32–29:57).

Healing and True Justice (31:03–36:17)

• After the verdict:
  • Legal victory was validating, but Darlene realized true healing required releasing anger, shame, and bitterness, not just winning in court.
  • She began telling her story publicly—via her book and podcasts—as a way to reclaim her autonomy and start true healing.
• Family aftermath:

  • Telling her adult children was deeply difficult; they responded with understanding and empathy.

    • "Mom, I hear you. I believe you, but I think you need to forgive yourself first." — Darlene’s daughter (33:13)
• Therapy and self-acceptance:
  • Understood the need to shed unhealthy coping mechanisms (perfectionism, control), forgiving herself and shifting focus from her abuser to her own well-being.

Relationships and Personal Growth (36:17–45:55)

• Impact on personal relationships:
  • Trauma influenced her marriage and relationship with her children—she was more controlling, always “in survival mode.”
  • Therapy and openness led to healthier connections; her second marriage is supportive and loving in a way she never knew before.
  • "I didn’t realize that I didn’t know what love was until I was in my second relationship." (44:56)

Breaking the Taboo, Resources, and Advice (51:15–58:44)

• Prevalence of sibling sexual trauma:

  • Darlene discovered this is the most common form of intrafamilial abuse, yet it is heavily under-discussed.
  • There are now many resources and organizations ("Five Waves," "Incest Aware," "SSTA Awareness," etc.), which she lists on her website.
  • "Sibling sexual trauma and abuse is thought to be the most common form... yet nobody talks about it." (51:15)

• Advice for parents:

  • Need to move beyond "stranger danger" and have real conversations about boundaries, including within families.
  • Key message: "Yell, run, and tell. No one is allowed to touch you in the bathing suit zone." (54:04)
  • One in 25 children experience sexual assault by a sibling—a startling, eye-opening statistic.

• Advice for survivors:

  • "It’s never too late to tell your story. Look at me. I waited 50 years to tell it... The silence was not yours to hold. The shame was not yours to carry. And only by telling it and letting it go are you able to really understand who you are and what you deserve." — Darlene (58:44)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On survival strategies:

  • "I had built like two Darlene’s... the ashamed Darlene in the box and the new Darlene on top of it. The two were never one until 50 years later and my box blew wide open." — Darlene (11:08)

• On validation in court:

  • "A unanimous jury of 12 in less than an hour says he's lying and I’m telling the truth, and I win both cases, hands down." — Darlene (29:32)

• On the power of friendship:

  • "Every single one of them that I told, they said, I believe you. And that is powerful in itself, right?" — Darlene (28:24)

• On healing:

  • "Justice became letting go of the burden of my secret and telling the world and writing my book and coming on podcasts like yours." — Darlene (31:03)

• To other survivors:

  • "It's never too late to tell your story... Let it go so you can live your life forward." — Darlene (58:44)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Darlene’s story introduction & childhood trauma: 02:55–09:04
• The burden of secrecy & coping mechanisms: 09:47–16:23
• Breaking silence and family confrontation: 16:23–19:41
• Email to siblings & the lawsuit: 19:41–24:22
• Legal process and trial details: 24:28–31:03
• Validation, aftermath, and further healing: 31:03–36:17
• Impact on relationships and family: 36:17–45:55
• Resources and advice for others: 51:15–58:44
• Closing motivation for survivors: 58:44–59:19

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Conclusion & Additional Resources

• Darlene’s message: Sharing your story is key to reclaiming your life; you are not alone and resources are available.
• Her book, Shattering Silence, is available on Amazon and her website darlene-lakowski.com with supportive resources for survivors.

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Overall Tone and Language

The conversation is deeply empathetic, sensitive, and conversational. Both Morgan and Darlene consistently validate each other's emotions, reinforce survivor agency, and avoid sensationalizing trauma. The episode offers practical advice, raw personal testimony, and hope for healing and justice.

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Trigger warning: This episode centers on childhood sexual abuse, family betrayal, trauma, and the long journey to justice and healing. It offers hope and resources for survivors and guidance for parents and loved ones.

Transcript

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[Darlene Lakowski]

Where does your group perform?

[Clifford Taylor IV]

We do some retirement homes.

[Comedy Podcast Host]

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Story Narrator (OK Storytime)]

My mother in law spent years sabotaging our relationship until karma made her pay for it.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Alright Sofia, tell me about how we started this story.

[Story Narrator (OK Storytime)]

She moved in for two weeks, lasted five days, left a mess and then pressed her ear against their bedroom door and burst in screaming. When kicked out to a hotel, she called her son in law's workplace pretending his partner had been rushed to the hospital by ambulance.

[Darlene Lakowski]

She fell, faked a medical emergency and

[Story Narrator (OK Storytime)]

spoiler, that was just the beginning. To find out how it ends, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Darlene Lakowski]

Take this personally with Morgan Huelsman.

[Morgan Huelsman]

The impactful stories continue this week one in the series. I hope you were able to listen to Caroline's story last week. Watching it brought up all the emotions since I did the interview and the same will go for this week's story. You'll want to cry in moments, yell in others and be completely outraged and all of that is totally valid. As I mentioned last week, we are talking about some difficult things on the subject of sexual assault. While I highly encourage everybody to not miss this episode, I want you to take care of yourselves first. Darlene is a woman of pure strength and the things she had to endure are heartbreaking. But she's here this week to share her story and in doing so, bringing awareness to help others. Everyone get ready to meet Darlene. Darlene Lakowski joins me this week. She is an author and has it just incredible story to share of one that gosh, on on so many levels I think a lot of people would be afraid to talk about. But Darlene is not. Which is why I'm really happy to have her join me. Darlene, thanks for here.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to join you today.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I don't know how else for us to get started than getting right into it. Oftentimes sometimes we'll go about things in a different direction. But so much of your story starts there.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And so I really want you to walk us through before we as I have just so many questions and talking so many things. But tell me your story. The reason why you wrote this book, the backstory, the creation of all of this.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah, it comes in several parts as you know. So why don't we just start with part one. The first part is sadly, the world betrayed me when I was seven and from the ages of seven to 12 I was sexually assaulted by my two oldest brothers. Brothers who are supposed to protect you, take care of their little sister instead were abusing me on and off for five years. And that's where the story starts.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Such a hard place to start at.

[Darlene Lakowski]

I know.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I cannot imagine even experiencing it. We're sitting here having to have these conversations and you wrote a whole book talking about a lot of it. So you've had experience now and reliving I imagine some of those moments. But as a seven year old, did you even realize this was happening? Was there any part of you that has blocked A lot of that out. Walk me through your experience as a 7 year old who had that. And I just. I can't fathom it. So I'm trying to help go there with you.

[Darlene Lakowski]

It's. You're right. As a seven year old, you don't know what's going on. And the first brother. So there were two brothers, two different times. And they claim neither one knew what the other one was doing. But I found out later from friends that wasn't true. You're seven. The first brother is nine years older than me. So he is. He didn't. Am I allowed to use the word? The R word? I can use any word. Okay. I just want. I want to make sure. So he didn't rape me, but he made me witness him do things to himself. And he was pretty physically violent even though our part wasn't a part of it. And I tried to escape him and one of the incidents and he found me. And I think at that moment I was 8. So each assault has almost happened a year apart. And I built a lot of strategies as a little girl. So I wasn't raped every day after school like a lot of these kids are.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Oh my gosh.

[Darlene Lakowski]

I know.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I can't imagine the processing that you're having to do as such a young kid to survive.

[Darlene Lakowski]

That's exactly what I did.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Truly. And you're in. Your home is supposed to be a safe place. That's the whole thing that we're taught. You're even taught it in school. The home is a safe place. So when it isn't a safe place, what was that experience like for you? Were your parents aware? What was the environment at your home? What was all of that as part of this story?

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah. There's a perception that incest, that icky word that we now call sibling sexual trauma and abuse, only happens in poor families. I was in an upper middle class family, the country club family. My dad had a big job at our firm. Top of engineering. He had the office with the shower. My mom actually owned a Christian bookstore. Big pillars in the community. And in the 1970s, this little girl having this happen to her from her older brothers and the threats, I'm sure you've heard this before with other assault victims, but especially to a young child. If you tell mom and dad will probably believe you, but then they'll abandon you. You'll be the black sheep. You'll be the one destroying the family. You'll be the one to blame. And I had a really good life. 90% of it was Good. I had a loving mother and father. I had an older sister who was 11 years older than me. That didn't hurt me. And then I had a brother two and a half years older than me that I was really close to. That first brother taught me I could never escape the danger. Then when it started with the second brother in 1975, I just learned almost, I hate to say it this way, but almost to accept what was happening to me and live my life forward any way that I could. So I build all kinds of survival tactics and strategies so I was never in that house. So I took that box of trauma. I took my trauma and shoved it in a box, and I just said, this is never going to hurt me again. And I even talk about it in the book. Nine years old now. Now it's the second brother. And I just made a postulate that you can steal my childhood, you can destroy my innocence, but you're never taking me and you're never taking my family. And then I built resilience on top

[Morgan Huelsman]

of that through that whole experience. And being so young, to want to have experienced what you did is absolutely horrific. Horrific and should have never happened. But to then find your way through it, in so many instances, they don't.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Right.

[Morgan Huelsman]

There's so many stories that don't end in the way that you're sitting here right next to me writing a story about it and having a book and having this whole life now. And I think that's a big piece to all of this, too, is that experience is you built that resilience. But then where does the story end? Like in this particular part of your story? At what point did it finally come out? At what point did happen? Where is everything now with your family?

[Darlene Lakowski]

Oh, my gosh, it's such a crazy story. So, yeah, I just have to back up the truck still, because I think it's important for your listeners or viewers to know you can have a box and you can shove your secrets in that box and you can think it's gone. And what I did is I became the over controlling, the over perfectionist, the over successful. I have a huge career, I have three beautiful children, I've built a wonderful life, but I still had that box of drama. And what started happening to me. And we'll get to the big doozy part, but what started happening to me is everything that I built to survive as a little girl was literally killing my adult life. Because if I said, I am never going to let those brothers see me fail, so what that means is, you Always have to win. If you always have to win, what does it do to relationships? Oh, you'll never get in to.

[Morgan Huelsman]

To be in that state. Nothing works in the way that you think it does. It looks really pretty and it looks really good from the outside. It's like a pretty present. And then you open it up and everything goes everywhere. That's what your whole body was experiencing.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Exactly.

[Morgan Huelsman]

All chaos inside. Outside looked perfect.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah. I had built like two darlings. I had a little Darlene, the ashamed Darlene shoved in the box. The scared, the fearful. And then on top of that box, I built the new Darlene. But the two of them were never one until 50 years later and my box blew wide open. So it was a secret I kept for 50 years. I thought I was going to take it to the grave.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I just got chills all over my body. That you kept that for so long and not only kept that, you held on to this. That was such a huge thing that nobody should have to hold. But you did it alone to keep that secret, to not have shared it, whether publicly or privately, is all a thing. But to really struggle with that entire experience, truly by yourself, you're the only one who has that entire story. I cannot imagine one. The weight that was lifted off when it was finally out. And to the moment where you finally felt free to share that and be in that space of. And you're in your body busting wide open to say, oh my gosh, I get to let go of this.

[Darlene Lakowski]

And I should correct something. I held the secret tight in that box shut for 50 years. Except for a select few.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I'm glad you at least had a few and you had a support system because I don't imagine you would have made it as far as you did if you didn't.

[Darlene Lakowski]

No. I told people I could have easily become an alcoholic the way it was happening in my 20s and high school, a drug addict. I could have been a prostitute because that's what happens when people get sexually assaulted. The over sexualization. And honestly, I could have been dead. But I didn't. And it's what the story's about. What did I do that I didn't go there? Because you said so many survivors sadly do go the other way. And so what happened to me is I had PTSD since 7 years old, but I didn't know I had it till I was 58. So two years ago I was diagnosed with PTSD. Wow.

[Morgan Huelsman]

How'd you get diagnosed? What was the moment in time where you realized, oh, that is what I had for all of these years.

[Darlene Lakowski]

I'll get to that in a second.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Because I don't want to give it up.

[Darlene Lakowski]

There's so many things. I know there are so many things, but I just finally had to go to a doctor. And there's a reason why I went to the doctor, but. So what happened to me is I took that box and I opened the lid to special girlfriends. And I think that is so important. If you're not going to tell your parents and you're not going to tell the world, find a resource. And I had. What had happened to me is I had PTSD moments. So I'm in a bar, some guy touches me the wrong way. I'm flipping out. They think they put. The guy put drugs in my drink. No, that was ptsd. That was a reaction from getting raped for so many years. And so I had to tell them. I'm like, I'm so embarrassed. That wasn't me. This is how I behaved. First time I had consensual sex, I was bawling like I wasn't a virgin. I was dirty. I was convinced. That's what survivors do. We convince ourselves that it's our fault and that the shame is ours to carry, and it's not.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And I was gonna ask you, because you did go on to get married and you went on to have three kids. I can't imagine those experiences were also easy, because dating you. You say the first time you had consensual sex. The first time. Anything associated with intimacy and creating life, children bringing children in. When you know what you experience as a children. All kinds of emotions, I would imagine.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah. Yep. But I wouldn't deal with the emotions because as long as it was in the box, perfect Darlene was gonna be okay. And that's not how to deal with life at all. Trust me, the box wasn't worth it.

[Morgan Huelsman]

So then when did the box finally open? Why did the box finally open?

[Darlene Lakowski]

Morgan, you won't believe it. So, you know, I'm sexually assaulted at 7. I'm now 57 years old. My mom passes away suddenly in 2021. My dad has dementia, so the threat of mom and dad ever knowing are gone. And I don't think it's a coincidence that I get in a really big argument with one of the brothers, the one who had raped me. Actually, the one who's five years older than me. And, you know, it starts off with a text and we're arguing, and I try to call him. I try to call him. He won't pick up the phone. So I just loses it and I just say seven year old little Darlene comes out and she goes, look, I'm sick and tired of the way you're treating me. If you don't stop behaving like this, I can destroy your life if you want me to. And I end the text saying rapist. And he says, go for it. What man says go for it if you're not the rapist. You know what I mean?

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yep.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Like he's like, try me. Like he's invisible. He's untouchable.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah. Oh, the arrogance was unbelievable.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Okay, so gosh, I just have so many follow ups.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Why did you never want to tell your parents? What about that relationship stopped you?

[Darlene Lakowski]

I know my parents very well and like I said, there were pillars in the community. Think about the way life was in the 70s and 80s. Nobody talked about their problems, especially not upper middle class. And I knew it was going to get buried. And how would that have made me feel as a little girl? I come out, I tell the truth and they just bury it. And sadly, that is what has happened to a lot of SSTA survivors when they've told they're the ones who have become ostracized from the family. It's so ridiculous and so sad. And I know my mother so well. Beautiful soul, but also a fragile soul. And I just know that it would have completely destroyed her and therefore it would have completely destroyed my parents marriage and it would have completely destroyed the live the part of the life that I absolutely loved. I want, I didn't want to give that up. I know how weird that sounds, but I didn't want to give it up as a little girl.

[Morgan Huelsman]

No. And honestly it's your decision, right? At the end of the day, it was your decision of how you wanted to handle it. And I can't imagine being faced with two sides of a coin.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Right.

[Morgan Huelsman]

One side of the coin is this beautiful life. Your parents had nothing to do with it besides the fact that that's a sibling of yours. And on the other side you were falling apart on the inside when you needed help and you needed healing and support and understanding. And it's difficult to look at any situation and say I would have done it this way because until you're actually in it, you don't know.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Right? Right.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And everybody's different, Everybody handles things differently.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yep.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And so no, I don't think it's silly. I think you did what you needed to do to survive and still have a life.

[Darlene Lakowski]

That's exactly right. Because what if it did become public? And then I was known in the neighborhood as the girl that happened to. Because I really believed I was the only one. Until 58 years old, I still thought I was the only one in the world that this had happened to. I believed their lies.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Because that's what they're telling you.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Because not only did they do these horrible things, they weren't great people. I would also imagine.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Well, yeah, one brother turned into a drug addiction, addict, alcoholic. I'm sure there's a reason why. The other brother, actually, when I finally was able to stand up to him, he stopped when I was 12. But then he came back at me when I was 19 and said, we should do what we used to do. And I was like, are you freaking kidding me? No, there's no way. But he actually, he got married twice, had two girls, had two stepsons. He became a halfway decent person. So then the text happens. I'm this angry, the world's on fire text. I call it my volcano explosion. It's when the box just burst wide open.

[Morgan Huelsman]

You finally erupted.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah, I did. I had had enough. So then two weeks later, I'm the youngest of five. So like I said, my sister Diane, she was 11 years older than me, but she was at a house at 17, and I was 7 when it all started. And she since passed away in 2008. So I have three brothers left. I send them an email saying, the facts. Here are the facts. Here's what happened. This is what you know. And I have memories of six assaults over five years. And I was hoping through that email I would get an apology, get validation for what they'd done to me. Instead, I get handed a lawsuit from all of them.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Together.

[Darlene Lakowski]

No, no, no. Okay, yeah. Not together. No. The middle one, the one who raped me, the one who became the father. And I can't deal with, you know, the truth. He ends up suing me. January 2021, I have a sheriff show up on my door. I thought it was over. I thought, fine. I got my thing out. I got my email out. Leave me alone. And I get handed a lawsuit.

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[Darlene Lakowski]

TikTok, the story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection.

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[Darlene Lakowski]

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need people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Morgan Huelsman]

But I know that this lawsuit has a good story, so I'm not going to stay angry for long. So please, because I know everybody's listening. Just like, what are you. Because I know initial reaction is just. It, Anger. Just.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Oh, yes.

[Morgan Huelsman]

You get angry at a system, you get angry at a society, at a way that everything is built, the way that this could even possibly happen.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yep.

[Morgan Huelsman]

You're angry at all of it.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yes.

[Morgan Huelsman]

But thankfully with Darlene, she did have a better outcome after this.

[Darlene Lakowski]

So, yeah, I had a better outcome the most. So it takes two years to go through the trial, to go through all the legal. They keep pushing it and pushing it and pushing it, and all my PTSD comes back. All my nightmares come back. I am a living, walking wreck, and I'm still defending the truth because I just felt that it's time for Don to pay for his actions. Finally. How dare he sue me? How dare he come after me? And so my thought was, you're making me spend thousands of dollars, so I'll negotiate. I'll try to not go to trial, but, buddy, you're gonna owe me money. And so Don goes on. He refuses. We go to mediation. I'm like, okay, I've spent 30 grand. I'll settle for 15 just so we don't have to go to the court. You know how arrogant this guy is. This is my brother. He offers me $1 to settle out of court. I was like, see, on the stand, buddy, I am done. I decided I'm just gonna keep going. And I'm so glad that I did, because even the mediator was like, the system. You know what I mean? Are you going to be ashamed to be on that stand? Aren't you going to be scared? And I just turned around after that $1 offer. I said, hell, no. I'm not going to be ashamed. I'm not going to be afraid. And you know what? The truth is on my side. And I'll be so thrilled when a jury of 12 believes me. Oh, my gosh.

[Morgan Huelsman]

So, darling, just the amount of strength that you had from A to Z, literally, because it wasn't A to B. It wasn't A to even F. It was A to Z. The steps, the process of everything that happened in your life, and to still be able to sit there in a mediation room and say, no, I'm going to have the strength to do this is incredible. I hope you can now acknowledge so much of that strength, which you probably weren't able to. Right. Because you were also still fight or flight. You were still surviving. You were still working through everything that had happened to you. And so you were also probably running on a lot of adrenaline of just. No, I feel so strongly about this. I'm gonna fight back. But also scared and. Yeah, yeah, all the things. But I hope you acknowledge the strength that takes despite everything at the moment.

[Darlene Lakowski]

You're right. I didn't realize how strong of a statement that was when I did it. But now that I look back, I'm like, hell, yeah, I did it. You know what I mean? I'm like, how did I do it? I don't know. But yes.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And it's incredible. So you obviously go to trial.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And what happens in trial?

[Darlene Lakowski]

So we're now fast forward 20, 24. It's two trials now. So my lawyer, again, to your point, society, and he's like, your story is so crazy that you might not be believed. That a jury might think it's so that they can't believe it. So rather than just take the defense, let's do offense as well and countersue him because he'd been out telling everybody, of course, Darlene's a psychopathic liar, she's had a nervous breakdown, blah, blah, blah. So I countersue him. So it's a five day trial. His trial first. My six girlfriends testify for me. I have one therapist.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Shout out girlfriend.

[Darlene Lakowski]

I know. Yeah. Shout out to the girlfriends.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Okay.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Because you gotta have that.

[Morgan Huelsman]

They helped you survive, they helped you live. I truly, I'm sure of that. Friendship is so powerful in that way. And it's powerful when it can really surround you with that much support and love. Yes.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Okay.

[Morgan Huelsman]

So the six girlfriends. Yes.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah. I tell you, they literally saved my life. I don't think I would have been able to make it through without them. Because every single one of them that I told, they said, I believe you. And that is powerful in itself. Right?

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah. Yeah. And to have that, and that was power. To have all of you there in that courtroom, I bet you in that moment, despite everything, too, felt that power of just, we're all bonded together and this was her experience and we have her back. You've probably felt supported in a way that you never felt supported.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah.

[Darlene Lakowski]

And now in a civil trial, at least in North Carolina, Cause I'm from Charlotte, none of them had to appear in court, so it was all video testimony.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Oh, my gosh.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Because one lived in London, one lived in California, one lived in Michigan. Think about. They're all over the country. But it was so cool and so powerful to watch each one of their videos. And then you could feel the tears. But that was tears of love and going, oh, my God. My. They've got my back.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah, very much. It's a testament, too, that you were able to keep those friendships over that course of time, too. Okay, so the six girlfriends, and these two had a therapist, right.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Because he even had a piece of paper that said, in 2005, she talks about her brother's raping her. Like, how is that not evidence? But anyway, it was evidence, but my brother kept going. Long story short, February 5, 2024, a unanimous jury of 12 in less than an hour says, he's lying and I'm telling the truth, and I win both cases, hands down.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Wow.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Did your body just feel overwhelmed in that moment?

[Darlene Lakowski]

It did, and it was hard because the judge had warned us. He's like, if anybody stands up and if anybody shouts, I'm going to hold you in contempt of court. So I'm just sitting there going, I can't believe I won. So I just put my head down in my face, and I start crying. And my lawyer, he pats my back. And my husband behind me, this is my second husband. He was there the whole time supporting me. But it was an absolutely validating and incredible feeling. And until that judge read the verdict, I was shaking in my boots. I didn't know.

[Morgan Huelsman]

You had no idea what was to come?

[Darlene Lakowski]

No, no.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And you were hoping. All you were hoping for was the validation that it happened. Yes. That just somebody is hearing you, Somebody's finally seeing you, and you're going to get that to almost. It doesn't rewrite anything. It doesn't take any of it away. No, it never will. But it does, hopefully, in your brain and in your body, start to rewrite that story that you've been telling yourself.

[Darlene Lakowski]

And that's where the book comes in. Because I thought justice would be winning the trial. And it was. It was incredibly validating. But I still had all the bitterness, all the hatred, all the anger, and I was still so uptight that really what ended up happening is justice became letting go of the burden of my secret and telling the world and writing my book and coming on podcasts like yours. Had you had me on here a year ago, I'd be bawling at the mic. I wouldn't be able to do it. That's how much I've grown. Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And even still, I imagine it's still not easy. Even when you have these moments and you talk about These things, it's still reliving it. Still.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Saying out loud that it happened, which is probably something that will always be hard, but you being willing to share and walk the path after having such an experience and after, truly, besides your girlfriends having 50 years of silence,

[Aaron's Podcast Host]

you

[Morgan Huelsman]

just have to feel completely liberated.

[Darlene Lakowski]

I really do. Yeah. But it wasn't easy. It was a hard path to get there, too. And part of the path was confronting myself. I had to end up telling my children. That was one of the most painful moments for me because here I am trying to protect my children, and my children are now all in their 20s. 20s, and I've got to tell them this dirty little secret that happened to their mother. And I'm thinking, oh, they're going to be so disgusted by me and so mortified. And it was the complete opposite.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I bet they saw you as. They'd always seen you as their mom. As. And that was my heartbreaking. For them to learn. Yes.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah. So I have twin boys who were 23 at the time, and they're like, oh, my God, mom, why didn't you tell us sooner? Because now we get you. We understand why you were so controlling in our lives, and you had to have life360, and

[Morgan Huelsman]

everything's adding up for them, all the pieces.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yes. And then my daughter, who was 26 at the time, she comes home from college, and she's down to PA school, and she's sitting across from me at the desk, and she's listening, and you could just see it on her face. Man. A daughter just has a special knack for knowing what their mom needs. And I'm going to tear up a little bit. But she said to me, mom, I hear you. I believe you, but I think you need to forgive yourself first. And that was like, oh, my gosh, you're so right. Like, I've blamed myself all these years, and so many survivors, we take on the shame, and the shame is not ours to carry. And that was part of the process of going, okay, I should have been done with the trial. But it didn't heal a damn thing. You know what I mean? It was validating. And I was like, finally, I hear a court system where the truth wins. Yeah. But then I had to take those next steps.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I was gonna say the court was just one side to that story. I think that was the side that started you to healing because you. It's hard to heal when your experience isn't validated. It's hard to walk through that when you're constantly being told that this is not true, it's not correct. You're wrong. You did that. Whatever. To try and walk through healing without that piece to the puzzle is very difficult.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Oh, my gosh, you're so right. Because that's what I had to confront. Like, how do you move forward when the one thing you think you need to heal, the apology never arrives? That's when you have to take your own agency. That's when you have to go, okay, what do I do next? So I had some more PTSD moments, one I'm not proud of at all. But it was a wake up call for me. And I was like, okay, I'm going to get more help, more therapy. But then I also had to look within. Yes, I forgave myself, but I also had to go, maybe being perfect isn't worth it. Maybe having to be in control all the time doesn't make any sense. Maybe every single thing I did to survive, I've got to kick it out. And that's what I ended up having to do it. I had to shed it all. I called it like the black tar within my soul. And the only way to live forward is get rid of the anger, get rid of the bitterness, get rid of it. Because everything that I was doing for two years was all about him. Now that I've said, what do I need for me? What do I need to be whole? What do I need to be fulfilled? And who's going to help me on that journey? That's who's in my life now, and that's where I'm going. And I wrote the book for me, but now I'm also writing it to help other people through their journey and not go through the hell that I

[Morgan Huelsman]

have into your credit. Somebody who takes away your autonomy, somebody who doesn't let you feel like you're in control, like you have a choice to go. The complete opposite of that is normal. To take back what you can take back. You were doing, again, everything to survive. And I think that's, you know, we always often see survivors in the healed state after they've made it through, because to be able to talk about it takes a lot of work to be able to sit here and have discussions like this. It takes a lot. You had mentioned, like, if it was a year ago, maybe not the same.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And so we don't really see a lot of that processing with survivors because it's hard to talk about into that's a healing zone, that it's easier just to. You do the work and you work through it. And you go. But the experience of healing is such an important piece for anybody who's had this experience. Because in those rough moments where may you're not proud of or you're experiencing things that aren't normal, those moments are so real and they're so normal. They're human.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

To go through all of that after something so bad and you've been shamed the whole time through it. You don't know what is okay and what isn't anymore. No.

[Darlene Lakowski]

No. And I gotta tell you, my marriage was on the rocks in 2022 because I would never give in. I lived my trauma as a little girl. Now I'm going through a trial, living my trauma all over again. And now that I've been able to write it down and let it all go, I'm happily married to my second husband, and we've got a great relationship. And even my kids are like, mom, you're so different than you used to be. There was an example where my three kids are from my first husband and divorced parents. You'll sometimes get in an argument. And then I was talking to my daughter and I was like. I said something bad about her dad and I shouldn't have. So she hangs up the phone on me. Old Darlene would have picked up. Call her back. Yeah. Dare you. You don't hang up the phone on your mother. That is so, so rude. Instead, the new Darlene. And she was shocked. I didn't react. I was responsive. Now I counted to 10. I was calm, and all I did was go, okay. How was I a part of this? And I texted her back and said, I'm sorry. I was out of line. And that was such a different person. You can see how the two characters before, when I had all the trauma within and all the anger within, I would have exploded.

[Liberty Mutual Ad Announcer]

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[Aaron's Podcast Host]

Liberty. Liberty.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Liberty.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Liberty.

[Superhuman Podcast Narrator]

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the Enhanced Games. Some call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either Way the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on £10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

[Superhuman Podcast Narrator]

Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Clifford Taylor IV]

A win is a win, a win is a win. I don't care what y' all say. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more behind the scenes, follow Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network.

[Darlene Lakowski]

On TikTok, the story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior and that can lead lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection.

[Debbie Brown]

This Mental Health Awareness month, tune into the podcast Deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self discovery and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace and self mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming.

[Darlene Lakowski]

The world is beyond becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected, we're becoming more individualized.

[Debbie Brown]

But we actually need people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yes, and that's part you talk about. The experience you had is one incredibly difficult journey on its own, but everything that follows after is also equally as difficult. You're rewriting an entire story, especially as Young, as it happened with you, you're rewriting 50 years of your entire life of the way that you shaped and molded and formed to protect yourself, to be able to survive, to do all these things. And then all of the sudden, after this trial is over and you win, you're like, I have a lot of work to do. Yes. That's equally as hard.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah. Yeah. And you talked to me. Even three years ago, I would have never told you. Guess what? I'm going to be an author. I am going to be on Amazon. I'm going to be on podcasts with Morgan. I would have never dreamed I'm headed into retirement. And now I'm becoming a public motivational speaker. Like, where did that come from? But I really think what happened is little Darlene and adult Darlene are now one, and we now have a voice and we're ready to tell it to the world.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And that stuff is really powerful. You talk about the young version of us. I was talking to a hypnotherapist, of all people. There's so many different forms of healing now. And he was talking about if you talk to yourself every time while it's also like you're holding the young version of you's handling, the conversations you start having are very different. And I never thought of it in that way. But you really do carry the young version of you with you, who you hope is okay and hope is healed and all these things. But for most people, that's just not the case. That's not how life works. So it's so cool to hear you say how powerful it is now that you're in this moment of your life and both of you are together in it.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yes.

[Morgan Huelsman]

When for 90% of people were separated.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Right, Exactly. And that's what I mean by the box. Like, every single one of us has a box. And part of my story is, no matter what your secret is, maybe you're a gambler, maybe you're a drinker, maybe you cheated on your husband or your boyfriend. Maybe you just stole a hundred dollars out of your. Your girlfriend's wall. I don't know. But what is it that you're hiding? What is it your secret that you're keeping in that box? Because it's not worth keeping it in there. And only until you open up that box, let go of all your secrets, are you going to be able to live the fulfilling life that you were meant to live. It's the only way to find hope and joy. And I found love in my second marriage because that Box was open.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And that's what I want to ask you too. You spoke on being married a second time. Being in this new relationship, it probably comes with also its own experiences because you were married before. You were different person before. But now on this other side of healed, what's it been like for you to be remarried, be in this relationship has the different version of you.

[Darlene Lakowski]

I didn't realize that I didn't know what love was until I was in my second relationship. Until I was in that marriage, the first husband. I hate to say it this way because now my kids are going to be watching this, but they know I settled. I had no self confidence. I didn't know what I was doing. I was like, okay, he's the best that I'm gonna get. And we were like complete opposites together 24 years, married 21 years. But it just was not a good relationship. So when I got out of that. And I'm starting to grow, starting to learn who Darlene is and rewriting the narrative. No, I'm not dirty. No, I'm not naughty. No, you know what I mean? Part of the healing. But it was a long time before I got there because I've been married to my second husband now for 12 years. But through him and through understanding what I need in a relationship, I'm madly in love. And I couldn't be happier.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I love this news story for you. That's so beautiful. And it's a testament to. Because even if you had a different trauma experience, if you had something else, it's. It is often a thing I have seen with the older generation than mine is just often that was a thing that was pretty common. To settle, to marry. That was your purpose in life, to marry, to have kids. And regardless of what your life story was before it, you become a mom and that's your purpose.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Right, Right. And the biological clock was ticking. I had to be married by 30. I had to have kids by the time I was 35. That whole thing.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah. So it's refreshing to hear somebody from the other side of it just be able to really see it. I'm a clear point of view.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Right.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I think that can be. I have a lot of people in the demographic that are around your age that have also struggled with similar things. To be walking the path that you are is. Has to be inspiring for them. And I'm curious, with both of your husbands, did they know about this stuff that happened to you?

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah, I didn't think I was worthy to be married. So when both relationships started Getting to the point where, oh, maybe this is going to be. I told them both in confidence and I just said, I don't think you want to marry me because of what happened to me. You need to know this. And of course, they both were like, are you crazy? But that's what the human brain does when it has trauma and you're still taking on that shame.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah. Low self esteem is often very much associated with that.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yes.

[Morgan Huelsman]

It's hard to have high self esteem on a normal basis, let alone with something that's teaching you that to be shameful.

[Darlene Lakowski]

I think that's why I built the second Darlene. I had the low self esteem that the one nobody knew about. And then I had the accomplished businesswoman, the person with high self esteem. I in sales, I'm in marketing, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. But it was, I hate to say it, but it was pretty much a facade because I looked perfect on the outside, but I was crumbling on the inside.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Very much.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And I'm curious too, on the other side, because if anybody is also a survivor of certain things, you're going to be the one who's able to speak to this. When you talk about relationships or consensual sex or even relationships with siblings, relationships with friends, just every level. Tell me how you started to rebuild all of those relationships with so many different things in your life that had been tainted by what happened. Because I imagine they. You don't have a normal relationship with a lot of those things after something like that happens.

[Darlene Lakowski]

The siblings, goodness sake. That's just weird in itself because I had to live the facade that everything was okay. I had to live every Christmas, every Thanksgiving, every Easter, every Memorial Day with these two brothers by my side like nothing had gone wrong. And with my first husband, we just were so busy. We had three kids. I'm working full time. It was just like he shoved little Darlene in the box along with me. And we didn't really deal with it. And then our relationship wasn't very good. But my second husband, oh boy. He was just like, I am going to let this man in my house who did this to my wife. Are you kidding me? And I had 50 years of practice at doing that, you know what I mean? And he was. And I'm like, please, my parents can't find out. Not in their 90s, not now. You know what I mean?

[Morgan Huelsman]

Oh, that's so tough.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yes.

[Morgan Huelsman]

I didn't even think about the holiday aspect of just. You were still keeping the secret. Yeah, you were still holding on to that. So everything else was going on as normal, Right?

[Darlene Lakowski]

Right. Everybody had to live as normal. And my children didn't know it about it, but my husband's dead and so that crushed Tom, who's my second husband. And we got in really big arguments before every holiday because one of the brothers, the one who had raped me, moved down to Charlotte where I live now. And so we're taking care of our 90 year old parents. We live an hour apart, but still it's that whole family dynamic with survivors that it's so incredibly hard. Because if I tell, that little girl tells, I'm going to destroy my family. And if I don't tell, I'm going to destroy myself, which I almost ended up doing.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And everything that you had built.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yes.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Gosh. And now is your husband like, I'm so glad this is out. I'm so glad we're moving forward with our lives. Is he just relieved that's all out in the open now?

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yes, he's very, very much so. She's like, I can't believe you're writing a book. I can't believe you're doing this at 60. And I'm like, yes, my life is always fulfilled.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah, but you felt the need out there. You had the story to tell the. And it's powerful. It. And it sucks that it's powerful. You know what I mean? Like, it really does suck that there's people that are going to relate to this. It sucks that there are people that come to you speaking. Not that I don't want you to be completely supportive, but I think that's

[Darlene Lakowski]

one part of the story though, Morgan, is people have no idea how common this is. So I, I know some of your viewers have gone through exactly what I have. I thought I was all alone and when I wrote the book, I thought I was going to be the first author. I'm like the eighth author to come out with the story. But sibling sexual trauma and abuse is thought to be the most common form of intra familial sexual abuse in the world, yet nobody talks about it. And that's why I called my book Shattering Silence because I want to break that taboo. And there's so many organizations. So if you have any viewers who are struggling, I have resources on my website. There's like organizations that I didn't know about. Had I known about it as a teenager or as a little girl or even in my 50s. There's five waves, incest aware, SSTA awareness, there's blue Borage in Australia. There's thriving survivors in the United Kingdom. There's a plethora of resources. So I'm saying don't go it alone like I did. I had girlfriends. But I'm saying find your community in addition to telling somebody it's so important. It is.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And that's why I'm so glad that you were willing to share your story. I'm so glad that you were willing to write a book and do this in your 60s, as your husband says, because you have a voice that needs to be heard. You have a story that needs to be heard. And to your point, it is. It's sad in general to experience like, we really have attached family dynamics. And I was very lucky that a relatively normal family. I had a great upbringing with my family, but I know how uncommon that is. And that doesn't mean we didn't come with our struggles and all the other things.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Oh, yeah, every family has struggles, but not as bad as this. Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

No, but family dynamics, we don't talk about them in a lot of ways just because it's hard. It much to what the decision that you made to keep that secret for so long is why it's hard.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

You love your family. You don't want to believe that there's any of this bad. You don't want to set a wrong course for your family. You don't want to expose things because family is supposed to be this connection and again, back to its place. Supposed to be a safe place. You're supposed to. Those are the people. They're supposed to have your back. And to shatter that experience is hard for people to understand. And I wish this wasn't a conversation that we had to have. I wish it was. And I wish this never happened to you, But I'm thankful that you took it and you did what you did to help other people.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah. And I also want to tell parents, like, we talk about stranger danger. We talk about stop, drop and roll if there's a fire. I want every parent listening to this to start talking to their children, like, yell, run and tell. Don't anybody. No one is allowed to touch you in the bathing suit zone. I didn't have the sex talk. We just. My parents didn't do that in the 70s, you know what I mean? But a crazy statistic. Research shows that one in 25 children in a classroom are currently getting sexually assaulted by an older brother or sister. If we don't start talking about it, we can't prevent it. Yeah. It's so sad. It's so common. It's five times more likely the sibling is doing this to a brother or sister than a parent. But you hear about the parents.

[Debbie Brown]

Yeah.

[Darlene Lakowski]

You don't hear about the sibling.

[Morgan Huelsman]

No. And, gosh, I'm so glad you mentioned that to the parents, because there is. We do talk about stranger danger, and we do encourage people to be careful about who their kids are around. But, gosh, it's so difficult to put your mind in the frame of mind to say, I also have to make sure I'm careful with them around siblings.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

That's so hard. You don't want to because those are all your kids. No.

[Darlene Lakowski]

And you don't want to believe that. And back then, you had brothers and sisters that were 9, 15, the giant families, and they became the babysitters. And hopefully it's a different world. And I just think the more that we talk about it, the more we can prevent it for sure.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And we hope that it is right. But you just shared that statistic, and that is at least one kid in a classroom. That's a whole lot of kids.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah.

[Morgan Huelsman]

It's a whole lot of people out there. And to think that's currently happening. So to your point, it's like with everything that you hope you do all the right things to raise your kid and in all the best ways that you can. Right. But one of the biggest tools in your pocket is talking. One of the biggest tools is just having conversations, making sure they know that you can receive that information. And it's tough. That's a tough pill to swallow. You never want to think that way. I'm sure you can speak to that as a parent.

[Darlene Lakowski]

No. No. And even if you don't have the conversation, I wish somebody would have said, wow, Darlene, you're having a lot of nightmares. What's going on? Or why are you so angry all the time? There are signs that parents and therapists and teachers and counselors need to recognize. I've read sad stories where in school, schools, the child was reprimanded for getting angry rather than the counselor asking, what's happening to you? I think if we start changing the conversation and start asking children, tell me something. Because I remember desperately, like, hanging on to the side of a table wanting to tell so bad. But I just didn't, and I couldn't because I didn't feel safe and telling at the time.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And if the door was never opened for you, it's hard to open the door. And especially as a kid, especially with. There's also that power dynamic. Right. This is somebody that's older than you. We're supposed to look up to our older individuals in our lives. Those are the people that we're supposed to look to when things happen. But if you've broken that dynamic, then you're not going to go to those people. Oh, it makes that even harder for that conversation to happen.

[Darlene Lakowski]

I had two brothers that I was supposed to trust. So who am I supposed to trust in the world? That's what I was taught, and that's what these little children are being taught.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yeah. Such a powerful reminder of just something that you don't. And again, unless it's happened to you, it's happened in your world, in your community, you're not exactly exposed to it. So why would you be asking that question? Why would you assume. Assume that could even happen?

[Darlene Lakowski]

Right. It happens everywhere. Like I said, it's not. It's in every single family. It doesn't matter income, race, nationality. It happens all over the world. And the only way to prevent it is to start, gosh, breaking that taboo.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And we're doing that. That was the whole reason why we brought you on. And I'm so glad you're willing to share. And I don't want to make you keep going down this road because I know talking about this is so hard. So I do want to end, though, on something. Maybe it's a topic that we didn't address in all of this, or maybe it's some motivation or inspiration for anybody who's listening. Whatever you feel is heavy on your heart to share, I give the floor over to you. And that's how we end the episode.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Okay. I would say it's never too late to tell your story. Look at me. I waited 50 years to tell it. And just remember that the silence was not yours to hold. The shame was not yours to carry. And only by telling it and letting it go are you able to really understand who you are and what you deserve. And you deserve the life that you were meant to be. So let it go so you can live your life forward. Yes.

[Morgan Huelsman]

That's a powerful reminder. Darlene, I'm completely inspired by you in so many ways. And I know that probably feels really weird to. After everything that we just talked about, but the strength that you have, the bravery you have, the ability to talk about, this is not one that's easily taken from me. So please know that. And I really appreciate you being here.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Oh, thank you so much. It was a pleasure talking.

[Morgan Huelsman]

And you can check out her book. It's called Shattering Silence. And your website, what did you say your website is because I know you said you have resources there too. Yeah.

[Darlene Lakowski]

So my website is just darlene-lakowski.com because we have the dash in there because it's a really long name. It became number one bestseller in two categories on Amazon on April 2nd, so.

[Morgan Huelsman]

So awesome. As it should.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Yeah, the word is getting out.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Yes. We're finally doing it and I'm really proud and I'm thankful you came on here. So thank you darling.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Oh, thank you for having me. Me, it's been great.

[Morgan Huelsman]

It doesn't matter how many interviews I do, the stories we sometimes get on this podcast will never not break my heart. And I know they're hard things to hear and difficult topics, but I think that awareness is so incredibly important and the only way for that to happen is by exposure and having these guests and talking not just about hard stuff, but the really shitty terrible stuff matters and it makes an impact for a lot of people out there. Darlene is an incredible woman. I highly suggest checking out her book. It will be linked in the show notes. I will see you all for another episode next Monday.

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[Aaron's Podcast Host]

Liberty Liberty, Liberty Liberty.

[Comedy Podcast Host]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

[Darlene Lakowski]

Where does your group perform?

[Comedy Podcast Host]

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Story Narrator (OK Storytime)]

My mother in law spent years sabotaging our relationship until karma made her pay for it.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Alright Sofia, tell me about how we started this story.

[Story Narrator (OK Storytime)]

She moved in for two weeks, lasted five days, left mess and then pressed her ear against their bedroom door and burst in screaming when kicked out to a hotel she called her son in law's workplace, pretending his partner had been rushed to the hospital by ambulance.

[Darlene Lakowski]

She faked a medical emergency and spoiler,

[Story Narrator (OK Storytime)]

that was just the beginning. To find out how it ends, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Superhuman Podcast Narrator]

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced Games. Some call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Within probably 10 days. I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

[Superhuman Podcast Narrator]

Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Aaron's Podcast Host]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Morgan Huelsman]

Guaranteed Human.