TAKE THIS PERSONALLY: The Cost of Loving the Wrong Person: From “Perfect Life” to Unsubscribing

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Bobby Bones Show

Episode: TAKE THIS PERSONALLY: The Cost of Loving the Wrong Person: From “Perfect Life” to Unsubscribing

Host: Morgan Huelsman (Premiere Networks)
Guest: Jenny Prem, Author & Speaker
Date: February 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this emotionally charged episode, Morgan Huelsman continues her series focused on love, relationships, and the often unseen realities behind seemingly perfect partnerships. She welcomes author and speaker Jenny Prem to discuss the harrowing journey of loving the wrong person—specifically her tumultuous relationship with a narcissistic partner she refers to as "Chad." Through candid storytelling, Morgan and Jenny explore the cost of denying red flags, the covert dynamics of narcissistic abuse, the eventual path to healing, and Jenny’s work helping others "unsubscribe" from what no longer serves them.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jenny’s “Perfect Life” on the Surface (02:11 - 05:14)

• Jenny had a successful 20-year corporate career, financial stability, and a seemingly perfect relationship.
• Describes how she was "living her best life" before meeting "Chad," who aggressively pursued her despite her initial reluctance, largely because she was content with her life and hesitant to get involved with a man who had children.
• “I was living my best life, working my big, fancy corporate job with my big salary, my fancy car, my fancy clothes, and thought that was...everything that defined success for me at the time.” – Jenny (03:23)

2. Relationship Red Flags & Manipulation Tactics (05:14 - 08:39)

• The relationship accelerated unusually fast: meeting his children within weeks, intense declarations like "We should get married" over trivial similarities.
• Retrospective recognition of red flags: rapid escalation, lack of boundaries, love bombing, mirroring.
• Key terms explained:
  • Love bombing: Intense, excessive affection early in the relationship to manipulate attachment.
  • Gaslighting: Manipulating someone into doubting their perception/reality.
• Jenny: "This was before I knew terms like love bombing and future faking and mirroring, which is all of the manipulation that was happening at the time." (06:45)

3. Life Inside a Narcissistic Relationship (08:39 - 14:19)

• Outwardly, everything looked perfect—“white picket fence, the family, the two kids, and the dog”—but inwardly, Jenny was being gaslit, isolated, and her health suffered from severe stress (shingles, hair loss, etc.).
• Friends doubted her reality due to the perfect public image ("there's no way. He would have to be an absolute psychopath for this to be going on." - 10:38).
• Discussion on why it's so hard to leave: psychological manipulation makes reality blurry, repeated cycles before truly leaving (average of seven times).

4. The Breaking Point & Harsh Discoveries (14:19 - 20:53)

• Trusting her intuition, Jenny uncovered the truth when a friend confronted her with evidence of Chad's cheating.
• Chad not only cheated, but was also financially and emotionally abusive, living a double life, performing unauthorized medical procedures, and manipulating multiple women for personal gain.
• “He would perform chiropractic treatments on people and he's not a doctor... He gave a woman a stroke.” – Jenny (16:42)
• Jenny speaks about the necessity (and challenge) of becoming an “evidence-based decision maker” in the face of continued gaslighting.

5. The Fallout: Abuse, Betrayal, and Taking Her Power Back (20:53 - 43:20)

• No physical abuse except for the risk he posed by having unprotected sex with multiple partners (“To me, I do think that's a form of physical abuse putting my physical health at risk.” – Jenny, 25:19).
• The immense emotional toll: humiliation, depression, having to get tested for STIs, and violated personal/physical/emotional boundaries.
• Gaslighting escalates: “Had I known that you had any trust issues in this relationship, I would have never uprooted my children and their stability to move them in here.” – Chad, as recalled by Jenny (35:31).
• Jenny describes taking decisive action—removing him from her home, controlling how he retrieved his belongings, and reclaiming her autonomy.

6. Healing, Growth, and "Unsubscribing" (43:20 - 56:04)

• Both Jenny and Chad’s ex-wife formed a supportive bond, helping each other heal and realize the abuse was not their fault (“Her understanding that he did this to me finally made her realize that she wasn't broken.” – Jenny, 21:37).
• Discusses the process of rediscovering self-worth, setting boundaries, and learning to trust herself again.
• “When you get rid of all the toxicity, those relationships really start to strengthen and deepen as they really start to flourish.” – Jenny (47:25)
• Introduction of her "Unsubscribe" concept: letting go of anything (habits, people, mindsets) that doesn't serve your growth, and focusing on intention over busyness.

7. Building a New Life & Helping Others (50:13 - 56:04)

• Jenny’s journey from corporate leadership into authorship, podcasting, and professional speaking was born out of the need to share her story and support others.
• Her latest book, Unsubscribe, centers on the idea of releasing unhealthy attachments to create space for what matters most.
• “So the idea is to do less, but with intention. When we stop doing all this stuff that doesn't actually matter…we can actually focus on what truly matters.” – Jenny (53:34)
• She maintains close, healthy relationships with Chad’s children and their mother, prioritizing love and healing.

8. Love After Trauma & Finding Peace (56:04 - 61:26)

• Jenny is “not against love” but is extremely intentional about not settling for anything less than reciprocal value.
• She finds fulfillment in personal contentment, supportive friendships, and meaningful experiences.
• Addresses the ongoing journey of healing: “You're always growing. You're always healing.” – Jenny (60:38)
• Jenny’s experience dealing with her father’s death overlapped with her growth from previous trauma, providing her resilience in grief.

9. Dadisms & Final Reflections (62:59 - 68:14)

• Jenny shares treasured wisdom from her late father:
  • “You live life through rose colored glasses.”
  • “You are the architect of your own destiny.”
  • “I'm just doing the best I can with the tools I got.”
• Final advice: Give yourself grace, do the best you can with what you have, and be grateful for how far you’ve come.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I can't. You look amazing.” – Morgan (03:20)
• “Narcissistic abuse is so covert...it, on average takes people seven times to leave.” – Jenny (08:39)
• “It's almost like micro traumas consistently that you're experiencing from the psychological abuse where you start to question yourself and what reality really is.” – Jenny (08:56)
• “I felt like my home had been violated...my emotional, psychological safety had been violated. I had been financially violated, physically violated.” – Jenny (28:04)
• “If you're with the wrong person, you will become the wrong person.” – Morgan (44:17)
• “I don't believe that everyone is like your dad. Like, I don't believe that everybody treats people like that. I think this is a really one off situation.” – Jenny (64:33)
• “I'm just doing the best I can with the tools I got. So give yourself that grace today, right?” – Jenny's dad, shared by Jenny (67:28)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:11] — Jenny’s background and the “perfect” partnership facade
• [05:14] — Early relationship red flags & manipulation
• [08:39] — Narcissistic abuse, gaslighting, and isolation
• [14:19] — Breaking point and exposure of double life
• [20:53] — Emotional, financial, and physical betrayal
• [33:00] — Confrontation and regaining personal power
• [43:20] — Healing, boundaries, and building a new identity
• [50:13] — The ‘Unsubscribe’ philosophy and Jenny’s new work
• [56:04] — Modern family, love after betrayal, fulfillment
• [62:59] — Remembering her dad, sharing wisdom, and advice

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a powerful, empathetic testimony to the unseen struggles of abusive relationships and provides hope for healing, growth, and personal evolution. Jenny Prem’s journey from a victim of manipulation to an empowered, purpose-driven advocate offers compassion, wisdom, and practical advice for anyone looking to “unsubscribe” from pain and step into a life of intention and joy.

“Do the best you can with the tools you have today, and that’s all you need.” – Jenny (67:28)

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Transcript

[A]

This is an I Heart podcast.

[B]

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[C]

Right?

[D]

And the best part? They accept Discover.

[B]

Accept Discover In a little place like this? I don't think so, Jennifer.

[D]

Oh, yeah, huh? Discover is accepted where I like to shop. Come on, baby.

[B]

Get with the times. Right.

[D]

So we shouldn't get the parachute pants. These are making a comeback, I think. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. Based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.

[E]

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[F]

This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Research with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[E]

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[E]

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[B]

There's a fire inside you you can't ignore.

[D]

Stand still. Not a chance. You're a lifelong learner who's come this far.

[A]

Now we are here to help you keep going further.

[D]

Capella University. What can't you do? Visit Capella Edu to learn. Take this personally with Morgan Huelsman if

[B]

you've ever been in a relationship where to the outside world, everything looked perfect, but the reality was not at all what it seemed. Yeah, you're not alone. We're getting into those kind of relationships this week because Valentine's Day comes with a lot more than just happiness around love. So here we go. This week with Jenny Prem. And I'm really excited because we're continuing the series all about love and relationships and everything in between. Jenny, thanks for joining me.

[D]

Oh, my gosh, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

[B]

I'm excited that you're here. And we have to go all the way to the beginning to really understand your entire story to where you are now and why you're talking to people about relationships and why that matters and finding their best selves, because that's a whole piece to this. But your story started somewhere completely different. And that's where I would like to begin.

[D]

Oh, boy. Yeah. Let's go back to the beginning. Like you said, I had this corporate job that I loved. I worked in medical aesthetics. I was a corporate leader for over 20 years. Two decades. I always joke that I. Because I worked in medical aesthetics. You can't tell my age.

[B]

I can't. You look amazing.

[D]

But I traveled a lot for work, and I love to travel for fun. So I was living my best life, working my big, fancy corporate job with my big salary, my fancy car, my fancy clothes, and thought that was, like, everything that defined success for me at the time. And I was introduced to this guy Chad, and I was not interested.

[B]

Before you even continue this, I do know how this story kind of goes, but his name's Chad, and honestly, that tracks. So please continue.

[D]

Let me just preface. I named him Chad.

[B]

Okay. Okay. That makes me feel better.

[D]

It's not his real name, and I don't do it for protection of him. I do it for protection of some other people that we'll get to.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

But he hated that name, so that's why I chose it.

[B]

But it sounds like he was a Chad, so let's be clear. Yeah, okay.

[D]

Please.

[B]

He deserves the name.

[D]

You're right. It tracks. So he was courting me, pursuing me, and I was just not interested for two reasons. Number one, because I just explained I had this great life, and why ruin a good thing? My singlehood and hanging out with my friends in the meantime, and my dogs. At the time, I had two Pekingese, Emilio and Sadie. They were amazing. And. And I eventually broke down. But the other reason I didn't want to date him, I was not interested, is he has two kids, and I'd been there before, and I just didn't want to go down that path. Clearly, he broke me down, and I end up going out with him. And things moved very fast. I tried to move slow, but things moved very fast. Meet the kids. Obviously, I fell in love with him. And then I fell in love two more times with those kids. Yeah. And things are moving along. They move in when they go back and forth between our house and their moms. And, yeah, things are just continuing Along. Life is good.

[B]

You're happy, you're like, okay, this worked out. Yeah.

[D]

I didn't realize that I thought I could be so happy and life is good until one day.

[B]

Wait, okay, and the one before we hit the one day, how long before the one day came?

[D]

So it was just under a year and a half. Okay, total.

[B]

So a year and a half. Everything is great, you're happy, life is good. Mostly.

[D]

Mostly. Okay, mostly. And we can backtrack some of that, because oftentimes the question I get is where there are red flags.

[B]

Yeah. Hindsight's also always 2020.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

So it's a lot easier to see red flags after the fact than there is during the fact a lot of the time.

[D]

And I think, too, like, when I talked about the relationship moving really fast in the beginning, some of the instances of that were in the first month of dating. Actually, it might have been in the first couple of weeks. He was like, I can't wait for you to meet my kids. And my first instinct was, I'm not a mother. I don't have my own children. But my first instinct was, if someone was hanging around my kids, I would want to know who it is. And so my first instinct was, what does their mom say? I would imagine that there's some sort of an agreement. Right. That there's a certain timeframe. And oftentimes my girlfriends that are dating new guys and they have kids and he has kids, they'll be like, how long is appropriate? I think it's different for every relationship based on the relationship with the other parents, but set a timeline that feels comfortable for you. And I have a friend that just went through this, and she was so glad to have those parameters in place because then everything felt comfortable right when that time came. So to me, in hindsight, that was a big red flag. Right. This was before I knew terms like love bombing and future faking and mirroring, which is all of the manipulation that was happening at the time. But I didn't realize that's what was happening before we were even officially dating. We hung out for a weekend at a cabin with a group, and he was like, what's your favorite candy? And I was like, Sour Patch Kids. Oh, my gosh. Sour Patch are my favorite candy, too. We should totally get married. Just ridiculous. You don't get married over having over Sour Patch Kids. Yeah. And that's probably not even his favorite candy, let's be clear. So that was, in hindsight, like the meeting the kids really fast. And when I asked him, too, I was like, what does their mom say? And he was like, oh, we just trust each other. And when I repeat that right now, like, it took everything in me to not vomit the words out, right? Like, him saying the word trust is just comical.

[B]

It's funny because a lot of people will look at relationships, especially from the outside, and be like, you hear all these things and you see all of this about a person. How could you possibly just not leave? I like to think that most people want to believe inherently that people are good. I don't think we want to believe that people are bad, especially not somebody that we're starting to have feelings for and we have emotions about. You want to believe that there's no possible way that this person is the bad person, that maybe your gut is pushing you to think, right? And I think that's a big conversation around particular situations like this too, where you just. There's so much more to just than you seen something be like, yeah, okay, leave.

[D]

That's not actually how relationships work, especially with narcissistic abuse. It's so covert that it, on average takes people seven times to leave. I do a lot of YouTube content covering narcissistic relationships and abuse because it's so covert. People don't realize how bad the. It's almost like micro traumas consistently that you're experiencing from. From the gaslighting, from the psychological abuse where you start to question yourself and what reality really is because they are such manipulative, pathological liars and create this different sense of reality. You start to, like, question like you're constantly on shaky ground and walking on eggshells, and you become like a shell of yourself, too, in all of that. Meanwhile, you're projecting to the outside world something completely different, that you've got it all together, that everything's okay, everything's great. And so it. This really confusing dichotomy, really, that people don't recognize what's going on, and they also isolate you. All of your friends are bad. All of your family is bad. So then you have isolation on top of it, and you're not talking to anybody about what's going on because you're embarrassed, you're ashamed. And then when you do finally talk to people and they see this perfect image, right? My house looked like the white picket fence with the family and the two kids and the dog. And from the outside, everything looked hunky dory. And so then when you start to say, hey, I'm experiencing this, and this is exactly what happened, one of my very best friends like, at the peak of everything, I got shingles on my face, the scars I had abnormal skin cancer lesions removed, and all my hair broke off and fell out. So at the height of the stress, I literally am sobbing, knowing in my bones, knowing in my soul that something was wrong. I call my friend and she's like, there's no way. There's absolutely no way. He would have to be an absolute psychopath for this to be going on.

[B]

And he was.

[D]

He was and he still is. Yes.

[B]

And I so want to dive down on. Because that's. It's such an important topic, and you and I both have experience with it, and it will be important for us to dive in. But before we get any further that moment, let's share the behind this story. The moment that everything changed and everything started to happen.

[D]

Like, that feeling, like me knowing it in my bones, knowing it. Yeah.

[B]

And what happened, what transpired, that changed everything.

[D]

So this is where especially ladies that you know that are listening, trusting your intuition and your gut, like, this is something I've always had a really strong intuition. And for that time period that I was with him, I just kept ignoring it. And anytime. And because he was such a good gaslighter. So I had come home that weekend and I was on a work trip and I couldn't get a hold of him. And meanwhile, I had two. Actually, I think at that point I was down to one. So I had two elderly dogs at the time. And so when I would travel for work, he was responsible for caring for them. Oh.

[B]

And that is. That brings a whole other level of just this sickness in your gut where, like, that you and I are both massive animal lovers. And that feeling where they are your everything and it's. The person you love is supposed to be responsible for taking care of something that you love equally as much, but also knowing at the same time that they're not capable of it.

[D]

Yeah. Like, psychologically and emotionally and financially. Abuse me all you want. Someone that can neglect and abuse an animal is reprehensible to me. Like, I can't fathom, but it turns out, yeah, he would leave my dogs. Like, I would be traveling and he would go stay in hotels and just leave my animals for days.

[B]

Like, for hours. Like, what was the.

[D]

Not for days, but overnight, for long. Like 12, 14, 16 hours, whatever.

[B]

Meanwhile, you're thinking he's caring for them and taking care of them back home.

[D]

Yeah. And so there was a time. So there's a couple of things, like when I go back and I was like, so here's actually, let me give it to you in a little bit of a different framework. Right. The shingles on my face. All of that actually happened about a month before everything happened. So I'm traveling home from a work trip in Birmingham, Alabama, and I'm coming home, and one of my friends text me and is like, hey, what time does your flight land? And I said, 9:37pm why? This is a Tuesday night. And she's like, can we meet for a cocktail? And this was not a Tuesday night, 10pm kind of cocktail friendship. And the kids were at our house that night, and we didn't typically have Tuesdays, but that weekend we were going to my nephew's wedding in Washington State. And so because of that and because of our schedule, we wouldn't have seen them for two weeks. And at that point, I had never not been away from them or had never been away from them for that long, and I couldn't imagine it. So I had asked their mom, I was like, would it be okay if we had them on Tuesday instead so that we can see them? And she, of course, agreed and was lovely. So they came. They were there that night, and they were already. They would have already been in bed by the time I got home anyway. So all day I'm like, man, she needs to meet at 10pm for cocktails on a Tuesday night.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

What is going on with her?

[B]

Alarm bell ringing in your head?

[D]

Yeah. What is going on with her that's so big? Is everything okay? Is someone sick? Is she like, is what's going on with her and how do I show up and be a good friend? Yeah.

[B]

And then we're thinking about her.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Not about what could possibly be getting told to you in that moment.

[D]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

So I show up and she already has, like, her drink empty and displays this arrangement of evidence about Chad, who's at home in my bed at that moment. And she starts giving me dates, names, locations. And she was like, how are you not losing it? Like, you. You must be in shock. And I'm like, I'm in shock. And I'm also not surprised because some of the dates matched up to times when I questioned things that had happened. Wow. Okay.

[B]

And how did she have this information? Was she connected to somebody that he was involved with?

[E]

Wow.

[B]

And she was one of your friends.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

So this wasn't like he had gone out and done things. Complete stranger. You didn't really have a connection. There was pieces to this that everything was intertwined.

[D]

Oh, there is. And here's the crazy thing. Too, Morgan. Like, the book came out and after the book came out, like, there needs to be a version too. I'm actually, like, considering doing a second edition because there is so much I think I learned more worse stuff, actually, after the book was published, when hundreds of women started reaching out to me. When he got posted in one of those are we dating the same guy groups.

[B]

Okay, so he was obviously cheating. That was obvious. At that moment in time, as it's getting laid out in front of you, was there other things that were happening? Was it multiple people? Was it like, how was he doing? What were you finding out? What was this evidence that you were presented with?

[D]

Oh, yeah, he was on. So at the time, like I said, some of it gets a little blurred timeline. Now when I found out what that's. Okay.

[B]

I understand that when we talk about

[D]

the grandiosity of someone being a fraud. Right. And like living a double life. He would perform chiropractic treatments on people and he's not a doctor.

[B]

Okay, so he's not supposed to be doing that.

[D]

Absolutely not. If you are not a doctor, you should not be practicing medicine.

[B]

What was his job? What was he supposed to be?

[D]

Personal trainer.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

Okay. He would have a way that he would build trust enough with people that they would allow him to perform chiropractic adjustments on them. He gave a woman a stroke. So when you talk about the dangerous levels of antics and tactics that he will go to, he's a complete financial fraud. He will take money from anybody and everybody. I, of course, floated everything. And so this is when I talk about my new unsubscribe content. Like, this is. I came up with it because it's what I wish I needed or something I wish I had at the time, I needed it so badly because I was completely over functioning. I was running the household, I was traveling, doing my job. I was doing the pickup and drop off at school, packing lunches, doing the laundry, making sure the house was clean and the lawn was mowed, and doing the grocery shopping, and you name it, maintaining friendships, keeping a workout schedule, and to keep this whole thing because people like him, it's all about their image. Right? So I was a perfect supply for him because it. It elevated his life. It made his life look really pretty. Yeah, really pretty. Way better than it was, which is exactly what he wanted in that time when everything was blowing up. I had recently found out, like, he had no money in the bank. And I was like, wait a minute, What? Because he always would act like he had all this money and Again, in hindsight, people like, give. Give me a little grace here. Okay. Yes. Financial conversation should have been happening long before that. But at the same time, like, things happened so fast, right? And we became this instant family, and it's like, you're already in it. And I. At that time, it didn't really matter. Right. Like, I made enough money and had enough saved to create a really great future for a family of four. And so to me, it wasn't ever really a consideration again. Now, in hindsight, I would be kicking. Me too. I get it. I get it.

[B]

Yes. The one thing I love to reiterate is, like, Hindsight is always 2020.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

When you have somebody who is so good at manipulating your reality, it makes it really difficult for you to figure out what's true and what's false, because they create an environment where it's difficult to distinguish that on purpose. That's what they thrive in. That's how they survive. And they do it not just personally, but professionally, which is also what you were seeing and what you were experiencing is he wasn't just this way as a person to you. He was like this as a human being, which is even scarier. Right? That there's people like this out there in the world that exist that could possibly break people's trust who might not even be just their partner, but somebody that they just have in passing as part of their life. It's really sickening on a multitude of levels. But I just want to reiterate that because it's really hard for people who have never experienced an abusive partner, a narcissistic partner, a toxic partner to look at it and say, why didn't you just leave? Or how did you not pick up on this? Or, how did you xyz? And it's just. That's not how it works. At the end of the day, that's the plainest I can say it is. That's not how it works.

[D]

I love how you said earlier, we want to see the best in people. And so you don't want that to be true. I didn't want that to be true about him, especially if I take it in context outside of just myself. Because this wasn't just about myself at that time either. It was about these children who I adore and love, and I don't want that for them either. But again, he portrays to be this amazing dad, really, the other day. And the kids are to the point where they see through a lot of it now, which is great. I've never said one thing Bad about him to them ever. And it has been years. Yes. We still have a relationship and we can get to that too, which is so special. I've seen both of the kids and their mom and I are super close friends. I've seen them all in the last

[B]

couple weeks, which I love, by the way. I love when two hurt women can bond together and just form an alliance that is unbreakable. And that's almost the reason probably why he came into your life was because this relationship is something that you needed with his ex partner and the mom of the kids. And the kids, which is a lot easier to look at now and see in your life and say, that was probably why. But when it's happening, that's not the same conversation.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I think for me, the. One of the most rewarding, validating parts about it was her understanding that he did this to me. Finally made her realize that she wasn't broken.

[A]

Right.

[D]

And so to see her over those first couple of years really get her swagger back. Oh my gosh. That was one of the most fulfilling parts of the whole experience.

[B]

Because when you go through something like that, lot of the questions become, how did I allow that to happen? What's wrong with me that I had the environment for that to exist? And everything that person taught you, you have to unlearn because they've taught you a certain way of being. And so I'd imagine both of you were rewriting a lot of that after both of your experiences, but you probably rewrote it. You guys connected and then it was a lot of lessons in learning for her, seeing it through you.

[D]

Yeah. And just to give an example of how much we respect another, I let her read the book before it was published. So to make sure that she was okay and comfortable with everything, there were a couple of things that she was like that can't go in there. Not that that I put in there, but we had conversations about it beforehand and I respect her that much to honor that. And still today. So now my last two books, she is actually the editor. Wow. Yeah. Stop.

[B]

I love this.

[D]

I know. It's just great. So much good has come from it. For what a shitty situation it was. So much good has come from it.

[B]

Wellness doesn't have to be perfect, just personal and how your space makes you feel. Pura's well being collection is thoughtfully crafted to support energy, focus, relaxation and sleep through scent. From soft florals to grounding woods, each fragrance is designed to create small feel good moments throughout your day. Discover what your space [e-mail] moods this

[E]

is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[F]

This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culturistos with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[E]

Hey, so what if you could boost the WI fi to one of your devices when you need it most?

[F]

Because Xfinity WI fi can. And what if your WI fi could fix itself before there's even really a problem? Xfinity is so reliable. It does that too.

[E]

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[D]

There was never any physical abuse except for the fact that what I like to point out is that the countless people that he was sexually involved with and didn't use protection. So to me, I do think that's a form of physical abuse putting my physical health at risk. Thankfully, one of the first things I did was go down to the clinic and get tested for everything under the sun. And I feel very fortunate and grateful that I didn't contract anything serious that was going to impact my life or anything like that. He was also on a bunch of, like, fetish sites and seeking arrangements and all of these underground. Word around town was that he was in some swingers groups and he really

[B]

had his claws and everything.

[D]

Oh, yeah. Little. Yeah. If it breathes, he's in.

[B]

Okay, you're ready for everything, basically with what was coming with him. And that is such an important conversation. I'm also someone who has experienced cheating in every relationship. I've been in serious relationship up until my last two partners and now my fiance. So I was very well experienced in the world of being cheated on by somebody that I was supposed to love.

[C]

But then.

[B]

But in particularly what you said that, like, hits home and something that we don't talk about. There's all kinds of conversations about cheating and obviously why it's wrong. And if I have to tell you why cheating is wrong, it's not my story to go down and I'm not

[D]

going to do that today.

[B]

But why cheating is so unbelievably hurtful and should be looked at as such is because of the jeopardy you're putting somebody's else's life in that they don't have a say in. And I don't think we talk about that enough when it comes to cheating. It's more the emotional experience that you go through, which is horrible. The heartbreak, the pain, the betrayal, the lack of trust, all of that is so incredibly valid. But I very much remember being cheated on. And I had to go sit in a clinic or go to my OBGYN and get blood work and get things done because of a situation that I didn't even ask for. And it was never my responsibility to begin with. I did everything right. I did everything that a responsible adult and human being could possibly do. And I even would have important conversations and I would do all the right things. I checked every single box and I still was the one paying the price for somebody else's decision that didn't involve me.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

What? It's such an important part to that story that it doesn't get talked about because it's taboo, if you will, to speak on those things. But I appreciate you talking about that side of it.

[D]

No, I think it's really important because I know so many women that have found themselves in that situation where they are humiliated. I felt so humiliated. And I think the way I open the chapter in this book to talk about it is here I find myself under these beautiful fluorescent lights, the crinkly white paper. Like, we can all picture ourselves in that position. Your legs and stirrups and this stranger coming in to give you all this testing again, something that you didn't ask for. So, yeah, I felt like my home had been violated. I felt like my emotional psychological safety had been violated. I had been financially violated, physically violated. You asked about, like, emotional abuse. Absolutely. The gaslighting. When I had suspicions or weird things going on, I was like. Like, I had a security system. And the security system wasn't picking up that anyone was in the house from, like, Friday morning until, like, Saturday. And he was like, I can't help it if the technology isn't working. I'm like, okay. So it was working up until that point and then started working again at that point. But you can't really argue with a narcissist when they are gaslighting you. Like, it just doesn't work. And then, same thing like when I addressed him, when I knew in my bones, new in my soul, I had shingles on my face. Which, by the way, I think shingles is very misunderstood. So, yes, it. It shows itself. It rears its ugly head on your skin. So for me, it happened on my forehead. But what it is, it's actually a virus that attacks your nervous system. Yeah.

[B]

And it's when your body's in stress,

[D]

If I'm not mistaken, it is not normal. You should not get shingles in your 30s. That is not normal. When I walked in to the doctor, she. Luckily, it was a friend of mine, and she got me in really quick. Really quick. When I explained what was going on and she walked in, she's like, you have shingles on your face. I'm so glad we caught it early, because you could have gone blind if we didn't treat this and get this under control. Now, where this is. Because what it. What happens then is it follows. And I actually had a second one starting. It follows the nerves, and then you start getting these lesions, and it hurts. It's actually super painful. So if you've ever. If you've ever had your teeth whitened with zoom whitening, okay, you can get, like, these zinger. They call them zingers. Like this. Like, the snappy, zingy sensation in your nerves. And that's what happens with shingles. So I was having that happen on my face while I have this lesion. My eyes all swollen, like, getting heavy and whatever. Meanwhile, I had no idea that there was Potential for me to be going blind. So when we talk about, like, physical having. Being violated physically, my body was screaming at me, ginny, something is wrong here. And was like, telling me so. That was the weekend when I came home and I had confronted him. Because when you said, what was it, the beginning of the end? I had this feeling when I was on a work trip in Orlando. We had just gotten back from a like, nine day trip to Italy, which I know you're going to ask the question, did you pay for everything, Ginny? Of course I did. Did we fly in Delta 1? Of course we did. We stay in lovely places. Yes. And people might be going, oh, shame on you. Silly girl again. That's okay. I take that. But the other thing is, when you go through something like this, it can really jade you and you can have a chip on your shoulder. I refuse to do that. I refuse to do that. I still want to be a kind, generous person, especially for people that are close to me and for everybody. Look, I'm all about love, acceptance and kindness, but I refuse to let him do that to me. And that's why I wanted to almost go like, the other direction. And it really, this experience actually softened me quite a lot. And it's not even that it probably softened me, it's that I allowed myself to be vulnerable and let that part of me show. So people that knew me before and know me now, like, they've seen a very big evolution, hopefully in good ways. I also am much more quick to not tolerate though.

[A]

Right.

[D]

When you're a yes person and you don't have boundaries and then you start implementing them, people might be like, oh, man, she's like, tough now. No, I'm actually way softer, but you can't pull one over on me anymore. Yeah.

[B]

When you get pushed in so many different directions, something has to give.

[D]

Right?

[B]

Especially what it sounds like. You were this very strong, independent, you had an incredible career, you built a life for yourself. And so, yeah, something was gonna have to give. Something had to break to bring you back together, especially after something like that.

[D]

Yeah. And so I'm in Orlando and I'm sitting on the edge of the bed. It's a moment I'll never forget. And I was texting with him and it was literally like 7:30 at home. And he was like, oh, I just. I'm not. I don't feel well. He sure got sick a lot for a guy in the health and wellness industry. Always sick. The irony. And meanwhile, I'd be away on a trip and he'd be like, oh, I'm so sick. Because he'd have to do something to cover himself because I became friends with all of his clients. And so if he was canceling on all of his clients, there had to be an excuse. Oh, yeah, he was sick. Canceled. Meanwhile, he'd be in Chicago with a woman or. And then. And she'd be paying because he always had credit card fraud. Oh, yes, the stories. Oh, Morgan. So I'm in Orlando, and he's texting me saying, I just. I'm too sick to even be a dad tonight. Because it was a Thursday night or a Friday night, and that was our schedule was like, Thursdays to Sunday. So that was always our schedule. Which worked out great for me, because if I was traveling during the week for work, then home with the kids for the weekend, and I was texting him, and he was like, I'm just too sick. I'm going to bed now. Like, it's 7:30 even if you're sick. 7:30 is pretty crazy. So what I found out after the fact was he dropped the kids off at their mom's sisters because she wasn't available, and she had six kids, like a newborn. And he just dumped them off there and then proceeded to go to a hotel with a woman. And this woman thought that she was in a relationship with him.

[B]

I'm sure a lot of them did.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

I'm sure there was quite a bit of that crossover.

[D]

Yeah. While he's living in my house, so Ghost spends the night with this woman, leaves my elderly dog. And I was sitting on the edge of that bed, and literally, it felt like a wave came crashing over me. Something was wrong. It was like my intuition screaming at me. That was the day I got shingles, went home, confronted him, and he. This is where. This was one of the most epic gaslighting experiences where I. Oh. So he also popped Viagra like candy. And so I. For whatever reason, I think I had recently suspected that he was cheating. And I'm not proud of this. And I think this is another thing too. Like, when you start behaving in ways that are out of your character, that's an opportunity where you need to do some deep inner soul searching. And I was doing things that were outside of my character that were outside of my behavior. Like counting his Viagra pills.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And when I left, he had this little foil pack that had two in his nightstand. And when I came home, they were gone. And so I asked him. Oh, and he had an overnight bag in the trunk of his car. Like, where were you? Where were you saying? And he totally flipped it on me and said, had I known that you had any trust issues in this relationship, I would have never uprooted my children and their stability to move them in here. Now, mind you, after he moved out of my house, that was the sixth place he had lived in five years.

[B]

The audacity to say that was your fault. The audacity is really just all I want to say.

[D]

So I go to the restaurant, I get the stack of evidence, I go home, I confront him. And I was very strategic for whatever reason. Like, I was on my A game. Morgan. Just the way I approached it was I was like, I'm not giving him what I know. I'm going to ask questions in a way to see what I can get him to tell me without giving him details, because I don't like me giving him the information that I know is going to take away all of my power. So I did. I went home and I confronted him. And the weird thing is, like, a couple weird things. Actually, I was thinking about this today. He always tells people that he doesn't wear underwear, which I think is so creepy. Yep.

[B]

That's not something that should come up in regular conversation.

[D]

Super weird. But he also slept naked. And when I came home that night, he was fully clothed. And so I wonder if he knew something was coming. It was very interesting. So I came in, and I just flipped the lights on full blast.

[B]

You're like, I came in with a wrecking ball.

[D]

I did. I came in like Miley Cyrus. And I just started asking him questions. I was like, how do you know this person? And he was like, I used to date her. Blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile, he had just been sleeping with her three weeks before. Whatever. And he basically. Again, he's kept asking, like, he wouldn't answer anything. He's like, do you believe it? And I was like, I don't want to. He's like, but do you believe it? And I was like, it was just talking in circles. And we maybe talked for 40, 45 minutes. And look, it was late, right? It was getting to be like midnight at that point. And he goes, I know this is more. I know that this is important, but I need to get some sleep. And he literally just went out and slept on the couch and then ushered the kids. So, like, the thing. One of the things that really pisses me off that he robbed me of was that last morning with the kids. His mornings were our special time. Oh, my God, they were so sweet in the mornings. And Just like waking them up and feeding them breakfast and bringing them to school. That was always my most precious time with them. And he woke them up at 5:15 in the morning, an ungodly hour, quietly rushes them out of the house and I don't know, took them to breakfast and school. So at that point I still hadn't made a decision. I'm a very evidence based decision maker. So the next morning I'm looking through the stacks of paper and I was like, okay, if I can, if I can validate one of these things in here, it's probably all true.

[B]

Yeah. Because we're. There's smoke, there's fire.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Every time.

[D]

So I literally, just randomly. One of the things on there was. It didn't say the date, but it was one of the women that had come forward and said I was with him. We recently went to a Crown Plaza hotel and I was like, oh, wow. He really treated you to.

[B]

You're like, I'm over here paying for things. So did we treat you to that? Yeah, that's going to be an issue as well.

[D]

Exactly. So I just, I looked up and I was like, okay, there's three Crowne Plaza hotels in the Twin Cities. And the first one I picked up and I called and I was like, hi, this is Mrs. So. And so I just pretended to be his wife. And I said I was looking, I just needed a receipt for our recent stay and gave the date. And they said, okay, hold please. Let me see if I can find that. In that moment, I'm just sitting on the edge of my bed. I'm actually sweating, thinking, being able to put myself back in that situation. When they come back on the line, whatever they're about to say is going to completely change the trajectory of my life.

[B]

It was that moment you were at the pivotal moment of change.

[D]

And they came back on and they said, we've got that receipt right here. Where would you like me to send it? And that was the moment it was over because he denied that. And so all I did was sent him the screenshot and I said, that was a Wednesday morning. I said, you're gonna be out of my house this weekend. And I never. So, like, one of the things, Morgan, as you were talking about, losing your sense of, of self and like through these kind of situations, and that was my home. And I welcomed him and his children into it. And I just. Everything felt so valid. And that was like the first thing I felt like I could do was take my space back. So I vowed to never let him in never let him back in my home. So I literally, me and two friends, we packed up everything and put it in my garage and let him retrieve it from there. And even up until the very last moment, he was trying to assert control. Even up until the very last moment, he was like, I'm coming down the street. You can open the garage door now. And I was like, I will open my garage door when I am good and ready. Huh.

[B]

That's funny you say that, because when my. The partner that was really bad, he refused to come and pick up his things from my place. And I had enough because I just wanted to move forward. I was ready to move forward with my life. And he had done so much damage that I just needed space and time to heal. And it was my space, much like you're saying. And he wouldn't come and get it. So one of my girlfriends came over, we packed it up in the car, and I had texted his parents, and I was like, give me the address of where he's staying, because you guys know he was supposed to have been out of here by now. And they sent it to me. We showed up to there, dropped it all off on the front porch, and said, okay, here you go. Now I get to start over.

[D]

Yeah, I love that. So same thing, like, very similar. Along those same lines. He kept trying to say the parameters that I was giving him didn't work. Work. And I was like, you don't have any plans this weekend? We were supposed to be in Washington for my nephew's wedding, which again, never forgive you for that. Missing my nephew's wedding. Like, it literally still makes me cry because he is so special to me. And I, like, again, that's something that he robbed me of. And so he kept on saying, none of the times that I were giving him worked, so he was trying to control even the time of coming and getting his stuff. And I said, look, here's the deal. You can either come between 12 and 4 on Saturday or 12 and 4 on Sunday. If you can't make any of my generous parameters work, I'll arrange, have everything set out on the curb, and then you can get it at your own convenience. And suddenly he was able to make one of those times classes.

[B]

Of course he was. And you know what? I'm so proud of you for standing your ground, because that's what it is. It's really like that revelation you get when it's finally over and you have your power back. It's not there completely, but it's there, and it's like within your grasp. And you're like, oh, no, I've been blind for so long, you're not holding anything over me anymore. This is not. That was the last straw. And because you took the last straw, I'm done. Like you. You get nothing anymore. And so I'm so proud of you that you were able to do that. And I know we could probably sit here and share horror stories all day long, sadly, but I do want to talk about some other things before we move to this new part of your life where you have a new book. And. And by the way, I'm assuming this book that I have in my hand, you're my favorite, is about this story.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Is like this whole life and the double life that he led and the really horrible person that he was. So you're my favorite. It's that book. But your other book. Well, we're gonna get into. But the last piece that I'll end this part on is talking about that. One of the things that you mentioned in all of that was when you started to realize you weren't yourself. And I think that's also a really important piece to this puzzle, especially for anybody who's in a relationship. And maybe they're trying to figure out if this is the one, if pieces are right, if they're the right partner, etc, and there's so much to this, because if you're with the wrong person, you will become the wrong person. And you experienced it. I experienced it. We're not alone in that. I don't know how many horror stories I see online of girls talking about the things they've had to do, the. The limits they've had to go to, find out what their partner was up to, whether it was cheating, whether it was doing something behind their back, what, who knows? The list could go on. But that's not an unusual thing to feel. Is out of body experience. I'm the wrong person. So I do want us to talk about that a little bit more because it's just not something we address all that often. It's one of those things that carries a lot of shame, unfortunately, because we hate the idea that there was ever a moment in a relationship where we weren't ourselves. But truthfully, when you are in any version of a relationship that is bad for you, toxic or a narcissist or abusive, you are inherently going to become the person you don't want to become. It's a part of that relationship, that experience. So I don't know if you have anything to add on that, like, whole part of that topic.

[D]

But I have days of things to add to that. And I actually want to bring it back to something you said earlier of like, when you go through an experience like this, the questions that you start to ask yourself. Fortunately for me, and I don't know why, I never asked myself the question, what's wrong with me? I never internalized and felt like his actions were my fault.

[B]

I love that. I'm glad that you didn't.

[D]

However, I did ask a lot of questions of how and why did I allow this in my life? What are my behaviors that are contributing to this? And so I did take that hard step and turn the lens inward and did the deep thinking or like the deep digging to figure out where all this was coming from. And it was very rooted in my family of origin where I experienced narcissistic abuse my entire life. So these types of behaviors and patterns were familiar to me. And there's comfort in familiarity, even if it's not healthy.

[B]

Yep.

[D]

And that was where I started too. So I have done a lot of house cleaning in terms of who I let in my circle, and there's been a lot of people kicked out of my house. And that's because I always like to use the analogy of the game whack a mole. It's like the most toxic person and you hammer them down and then, oops, someone else pops up and now they're the most difficult relationship in your life. So it became a game of whack a mole for a little bit for me, until I feel like. Like I won. Yeah, I feel like I conquered the game. I'm in a really good place now where my long term, like I spent yesterday with a friend, 15 years. Right. I have so many long term relationships that when you get rid of all the toxicity, those relationships really start to lengthen or to deepen. They strengthen. That's what I was trying to say. They strengthen and they deepen as they really start to flourish. And then when that's what you have going on, then I think you start to attract more. More like that. So that warmness. And for me, a lot of times people ask the question, they're like, wait, you're such a strong woman, you probably got this too. Like, how could something like that happen to you? Like, you're so strong. No, that's actually the perfect target for them because it's a bigger conqueror and it's unsuspecting and you actually are empathetic. And to me, I always say, and this is why I did my TEDx talk on this is I wasn't actually strong. I think I'm strong now. I was tough then and eventually even tough things break and so yeah, I think that's a really big differentiator. And so that strength comes from knowing and loving yourself and as a hard

[B]

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Talking about unsubscribe, which is really where you're at in your life now. So this whole situation happens to you. It's horrible, but you obviously found a way through it. And there was some kind of reason, if you will, that came out of it. And it was for you to be able to talk about it and help other people. So now this chapter of your life where you're helping other people. Talk to me about that. Where are we at now?

[D]

Yeah, it's so interesting because it was never something that I envisioned for myself. But one day I was walking through my office and it was just me and Francine. I said it out loud to nobody except for me and her. This was my last corporate job. And at that time, I had no idea what that looked like. I hadn't even published you're my favorite yet. That didn't come out for about six months, nine months after that time point. And even then I was still in my corporate job when you're My Favorite came out. And I luckily had a really supportive boss, like, we're still great friends at the time. She flew out for the book launch. And in that industry, like, that was. I'm so happy that I had that job at that time because I was so terrified to tell her because they didn't accept people that had other interests. Then I started my podcast. I was like, okay. And then I started to build a plan for when I left corporate. I hired a business coach, I hired a speaking coach and started to build my keynote with the intention of man. Because when people started reading the book, the validation they were getting, even if their story was really different or very similar, people could find the through line of experiencing something horrible and then finding the good. Right? Transforming your life in some capacity. So I was like, okay, I think I can definitely do something with this. Cause I. I spoke publicly for years, like that was my, my job in my different types of roles. So that part, I was like, okay, I can get in front of a group and speak, but what is the meaning? What do I want them to walk away with? And now it's evolved into unsubscribe. Of course, I still share the story of Chad and the kids. People always love that. They're like, they're still in your life. I'm like, yes. That is the one thing I told them the first time I sat down with them is that I'm never going anywhere. And trust me, Chad has tried, he has tried to turn them against me ineffectively. And I think my whole thing is all I can do is keep showing them up and showing them that I care, that I'm here for them, that I love them and who I am. Right. And so it was always really important with their mom and me to always, never speak badly about him. Truth will show itself. So with all of that, that's always going to be part of the story, but it's really evolved into this whole concept of unsubscribe. So my newest book is called Unsubscribe While Letting Go is the Secret to Getting Ahead. And yes, it stems from that story. But so many other aspects in our lives, like high achievers, high performing people, we feel like hustle culture, right? It's this hustle culture and doing more is better. That's the way to get ahead. And so no, everyone's busy, but people aren't actually being productive because we're too busy focusing on and doing the wrong things. So the idea is to do less, but with intention. So when we stop doing all this stuff that doesn't actually matter, that's not really important, we can actually focus on what truly matters. And that's a whole. So it's built on four pillars. I speak at associations, corporations, conferences, leadership events. And it's just resonating across all different types of people, teams, organizations, individuals. And it's so fulfilling and rewarding because it's a real life application that was born from my experience but has nothing to do with it as well.

[B]

So do you feel like you're in this place of your life now where you accomplish this, what you're teaching, doing less with and experiencing more and having more to your life that you didn't have before?

[D]

Absolutely. Like when I was surrounded around narcissists, you have to keep in mind that they are all about image, they're all about things. Things I actually learned that a family member of mine who is very abusive to me, always portrayed that they had all these things, the big fancy boat and all these properties and fancy cars. And someone told me they were like, you've actually made way more money than him for years and he has no money in the bank. Right. And so it's all about like their image and projection and it's easy to get caught up in that. Right. And so look, book, I wish I didn't like nice things as much as I do. However, I have really shifted and one of the things I talk about in the book is one major swap. That's one of the pillars that I made is things for experiences. So I value different things. I value so much my slow mornings to not have to get up and get on a 7am conference call. That could have been an email.

[B]

Tell me what that's like. Yeah, yeah, I experience that often. I understand and yes, and I totally feel that. And it is, it's a truer way of living truly to focus on things that are, we're more deeply connected with and we're feel more passionate about. And that's hard.

[C]

Right.

[B]

We live in a very hard working, driven society that believes output is everything and your wealth is everything and who you are and what your net worth is what matters. And gosh, I just, there's so many times where I'm like, I think we have it all wrong. That's just not actually what matters.

[D]

It's.

[B]

It's great and it sucks because it's what you need to survive and to live. But at the end of the day, it's not what this is about. You're not going to bed with your piles of money or your things or your name brands or the labels that are sitting there. You're going to bed either with you and the relationship you have with yourself or hopefully with a partner at one point or another. And that matters. That's what matters. Those relationships that exist within your life.

[D]

Yeah. How you feel about yourself and who you surround yourself with and what you're doing to spend what you're spending your time and energy on.

[B]

I love this. Okay, so unsubscribe is in this and now and you mentioned having the relationship with the kids, the ex wife, the like, where are you now? Where is your life? With love now too. Because I feel like that's a big piece to all of it.

[D]

So I don't actively pursue dating. I'm not against love that which is really interesting. So the kids, I never reveal their names, genders or ages. So again, remember I said I named him Chad. Had it was out of protection for them, to protect their identities, but they are older, and so they're a little bit more open to stuff now. But the oldest, we had dinner. We always do something for their birthdays, one on one. But, like, we go on family trips together, the four of us. We spend Christmas together, the four of us. Like, we really call ourselves a little modern family. But the oldest asked me, do you believe in love? Do you like, they've seen the damage that their father does to women. Right? Including myself. His most recent relationship blew up. He moved to Texas. He now dates girls that are twice as close to his kids ages as they are to his. He moved to Texas, became a cowboy. Because he doesn't. So one thing with narcissists, they don't have a real identity. And so it's always like morphine. And now he's saying that, oh, she cheated on him.

[B]

And karma does tend to find a way to repay.

[D]

But he's lying, right? That didn't happen.

[B]

So you're telling me I can't hope that it possibly did? Because I love when karma figures it out.

[D]

I really do. No, literally, he already. Before he had even moved back to Minnesota, he had already gotten himself in that are we dating the same guy group again?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[D]

Look, it helps my book sales selfishly. Fine. But I don't want him to keep doing damage to these women. It's like, dude, you have been outed. But he just. He can't help himself. Like, the same. He's living in his mom's basement in a suburb. 45, he's almost 50 years old and, like, living in his mom's basement 45 minutes outside of Minneapolis. He doesn't have a job, but, like, on his dating profiles, he says he's a medical device sales rep, that his net worth is a million dollars, that he has a graduate degree that he doesn't have. So, like, when I said he's a fraud in every way, it just continues. Anyway, to go back to actually answer your question, I go on off all these little diatribes.

[B]

No, it's okay. We needed the update on every. Everything that's part of this, Right? I like you. It's like, we got the whole story, but we didn't get the series finale. And I need the series finale.

[D]

But when the oldest asked me, do you still believe in love? Do you believe two people can be happy in a relationship? I said, of course. And I wish I would have had. It really caught me off guard. But I thought it was a really thoughtful question because I also don't want to ruin that for them. So I am absolutely open to it. It would have to be somebody that would bring a tremendous amount of value to my life.

[E]

Life.

[D]

And I would have to bring a tremendous amount of value to their life as well. So it's just a different way that I look at it. So I'm not seeking it, but I'm open to it. If it were to happen, I. I

[B]

think that's a great place to be. Honestly, when you go through something so much that you experience for a long time, healing in that process, like, you heal afterwards yourself, and you heal in different relationships, and you obviously healed that relationship with those kids and now you have a friendship with the ex wife. But there's obviously also healing that comes when you do enter another partnership and you have another level to this. Right. And unfortunately, like, the healing never truly ends. It's just always there. It's part of the journey. Once you've been through something like that. And I wish I could say that like you. You finally get to the point, and I'm in my happily ever after right now. And I found an incredible partner. But I couldn't tell you honestly, that's when it all ends, that the healing stops there. It continues. And so it's a loaded question in asking you that. I'm well aware. But it's also one that I always hope for everybody, too. Just whatever your happy ending is to you, there could be none, and I'd be like, yeah, let's go there. But I hope for everyone to find their happy ending after something like this happens, because you deserve it.

[D]

Oh, that's sweet.

[B]

You've created a life for yourself in whatever you want, whatever you want the outcome to be, you should get to have at this point there. There should be a reward for you at the end of the rocky road that happens. So I'm excited to see what your next chapter. Maybe the reward is in the book that you just released. And there's more to come from that. That's also cool too.

[D]

And that's really great. Like, I'm genuinely happy. Like, I have some girlfriends that they'll say they're happy being single and that they're happy with their life, but yet they really struggle with being lonely or feeling. Experiencing loneliness. I don't have that. I really am truly happy because I've gotten to a place with myself and I do think I had to develop. And I love how you said you're never like, oh, I did the Steps, and now I'm healed. Or, oh, I did the steps, and now I've grown, period. You're always growing. You're always healing. And one of the things that I do share, although briefly, my dad passed away five years ago on Valentine's Day. So this being about love and relationships. Right. Like, it's not just about romance, romantic relationships. Had I not gone through this and done the work, I'm gonna get emotional and done the work on myself. I don't know that I would have survived losing my dad.

[B]

Isn't that crazy to think about and connect those dots?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

To realize that it helped you in such a grieving time of your life.

[D]

My sister's actually the one that called it out. So he was her stepdad. I was his only biological daughter, and I was the favorite. Like, literally at his funeral. I don't know how somehow I managed to get through a eulogy. And I was like, daddy's little princess, apple of his eye, the favorite. And nobody can argue with it. And he even told me he's, yeah, you're my favorite because we just had such a special bond, and he was my guy. And my sister was the one that called out. She said, I actually think that the tools that you used and developed to get through what you went to. Went through. Helped you get through losing dad. Because I still don't know how. I barely did it because it was super traumatic, but it. I definitely have built a lot of coping mechanisms and have developed some tools to help me get through difficult times.

[B]

And unfortunately, nothing prepares you for that. We know that's the end of our story, but nothing will ever prepare you for it to. To the full degree. But to have the tools is. Is certainly helpful, at least to help you along the way. And it is. This is the month of love. For a lot of reasons. To me, a lot of what I talk about is love is all around us. It's not just in the ways that we think. It's not just romantic. It's friendships, it's partnerships, it's family, it's pets, it's kids, it's. You name it. Like, it can be in hobbies, that love exists everywhere. And to talk about your dad, too, do you want to share your favorite memory with him? Because I love hearing that stuff. When people share, they have a special bond with somebody.

[D]

So many. It's like my dad would say people are like, oh, God, that's so harsh. Genuine. You say that, but I always say, because my dad died on Valentine's Day, of a heart Attack. And he even would have been like, okay, I know that's pretty cliche, right? So I actually do honor my dad a lot. I made the mistake once of speaking on Valentine's Day and I cried on stage. And honestly, people loved it, though. They were like, wow, that really made you human. And that showed. So I do share a lot of my dad's dadism, that's what I call them. Like, not to be confused with a dad joke, even though they're both well intended, poorly timed. Dad isms are designed to be little life lessons, right? And I actually almost brought this up earlier when you said, we want to see the good in people. So my dad, when I was little, he'd always tell me, ginny, you live life through rose colored glasses. And I never really knew what it meant, and I was always insulted by it, but now I'm like, oh, I always want to see the good in people and I always want to see the good in things. And again, I don't want want that to be jaded. I will still want to see the good in humanity and the good in people, even though I was so badly wronged by one person. And that's what I wish I would have conveyed to the oldest is, I don't believe that everyone is like your dad. Like, I don't believe that everybody treats people like that. I think this is a really one off situation. That's what I like to think. And then the other one, the one that I use most famously of his and his most famous, is you are the architect of your own destiny. So we don't always have control over what happens, but we have control over how we respond. And then I'll just leave you with one little thing from my dad, which,

[B]

by the way, have you listened to the song the Architect from Casey Musgraves?

[D]

No.

[B]

You need to.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

If that's one of his big things that really resonated with you, just maybe listen to it in a place where you're like, like by yourself, in case. Because it's a really beautiful song in general, but if there's a tie to that, it might bring some emotions to it, but it's a beautiful song.

[D]

Okay. Interesting that you bring up music because my dad loved music. And after he passed away, one of the songs I played at his funeral, he loved the oldies. And so when I got to the funeral home, I asked the funeral director, I was like, can we get rid of this bad funeral music? I made a playlist. He's like, oh, my gosh, thank you we love when people do that. So I had a whole oldies playlist. I. It's still on Spotify. But one of the songs I played because my dad had a degenerative spine disease. He had to have a really massive spine surgery, had 14 inch rods put in his back, and he had rheumatoid arthritis. So towards the end of his life, he loved to do things like fishing, bowling, golfing. He couldn't. Sometimes it was hard for him to walk or even stand. So I asked everybody to stand by me. And after he passed away, I started hearing that song everywhere. Like obscure places on patios. A trio in Paris at brunch, like again at a patio. A live outdoor musician in the Hamptons, at a winery. Like, everywhere. And so I love that you brought up music because that he made me have such a love for music. So I will be listening to that song. But then just last. Just over a year ago, I had gotten in my possession some letters. He lived in Alaska. He worked on the pipeline when I was little. So he would travel back and forth. And he had sent home all these letters. There's a whole bunch of them. And I wanted to get a tattoo to honor him. And there was this one that had just perfectly in his writing. I love you. So now I gotta. I kind of get to carry this around with me all the time. I love that tie into the love theme.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's perfect. And that's like how you get to carry him with you always. But he was definitely playing those songs for you. I have a feeling. If I had to guess. And it's also funny because Remy jumped up right at the perfect time to. Remy is a therapy dog and in good fashion. She knew when you needed her.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And this will be how we end. It's perfect because you talk about dadisms and how he helped you really in. In just. Just going through your life and your guys's bond together. But we do always end the podcast with a piece of advice. Or maybe it's motivation, inspiration or something that we didn't get to. That's like heavy on your heart. So it feels like a really good transition right here. And it can continue with more dadisms or something. Maybe that is a little mix of both of you guys, Man.

[D]

Normally I would use you are the architect of your own destiny to answer that question. So now you're going to make me pull and a third D ism. I don't know if I've ever done three.

[B]

And it can totally be yours. Or it can be like so off subject, it's really just more of a place to let you go.

[D]

No, I think this is because this really does tie into advice. So he always said, not too bad for a little short old fat guy. Like when he would. Because he was a really good golfer, he was a really good bowler, and he ended up very thin towards the end. So that's kind of ironic. But he would always say, I'm just doing the best I can with the tools I got. Got. So give yourself that grace today, right? Do the best you can with the tools you have today, and that's all you need. I think a really fun one. Doing the best I can with the tools I got. That's how dad would have said it. But I think it is an important thing, right? We don't have to have everything figured out right now, today, but just sit where you are and have some gratitude for the tools that you have and where you are today and then figure out where you want that to take you.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, gosh, I love that. Okay. That's a really good one. I would have loved your dad. He sounds incredible. And Jenny, just thank you for being here. Thanks for being vulnerable to share your story. I know you wrote it in a book, but it's different to talk about it and relive those moments when you know they happen and it was the dark time of your life at the time. But to share it and be vulnerable enough to talk to people, especially in the month of Valentine's Day where there is so much love and things around us. So I really appreciate it and you being here.

[D]

Thank you.

[B]

As you just heard, Jenny Prem is an awesome speaker and author. You can find her social media or any of her books linked in the show notes. For those of you who related to this episode, I hope you have found your way out safely and now peacefully, or are planning your revenge as we speak. Just kidding. Kinda. Not really. Next week I have a matchmaker on to conclude our February Love series. So get subscribed so you don't miss it. I love you all. Chat next week.

[E]

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