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The Brainy Business | Understanding the Psychology of Why People Buy | Behavioral Economics
449. Embracing Winter: Mindset Shifts with Dr. Kari Lebowitz
00:40:54
In this episode of The Brainy Business podcast, Melina Palmer is joined by Dr. Kari Leibowitz, a health psychologist, speaker, and writer. Kari, who holds a PhD in social psychology from Stanford University, shares her insights on the power of...
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- [00:00]
Melina Palmer
Hey there Melina. Here I'm excited to share. I'm teaching two virtual courses in Applied Behavioral Economics which are enrolling now. Advanced concepts of Behavioral Economics and Internal Communication and Change Management. So if you're interested, don't delay, learn more and enroll at HBL. Like Human Behavior Lab dot TAMU. Like Texas A&M University EDU. Again, that's HBL dot TAMU.
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Dr. Cari Leibowitz
And click.
- [00:34]
Melina Palmer
On Certificate program when you're ready. Let's start the show welcome to episode 449 of the Brainy Business Understanding the Psychology of why People Buy. In today's episode, I'm excited to introduce you to Dr. Cari Leibowitz. Ready? Let's get started. You are listening to the Brainy Business.
- [00:59]
Dr. Cari Leibowitz
Podcast where we dig into the psychology of why people buy and help you.
- [01:04]
Melina Palmer
Incorporate behavioral economics into your business, making it more brain friendly.
- [01:09]
Dr. Cari Leibowitz
Now, here's your host, Melina Palmer.
- [01:13]
Hello.
- [01:13]
Melina Palmer
Hello everyone. My name is Melina Palmer and I want to welcome you to the Brainy Business Podcast. In today's conversation, I'm joined by Dr. Carrie Leibowitz. Carrie is a health psychologist, speaker and writer. She received her PhD in social psychology from Stanford University, served as a US Norway Fulbright Scholar, and taught the Mindsets Matter Stanford Continuing Studies course. Carrie combines scholarly expertise with practical strategies to help people understand and harness the power of their mindsets and find joy in winter. Her writing on the power of wintertime mindset has appeared in the Atlantic, the New York Times, and the Washington Post, and many other publications have reported on her work, including the Guardian, the Financial Times, BBC, and the Telegraph. She has taught winter workshops to businesses, universities, nonprofits, and organizations around the world. Today's episode is coming out on Thanksgiving here in the States, and knowing this is a time where a lot of people start to transition from a fall to a winter mindset, it seemed like the perfect time to release this episode and help everyone to make this their best winter ever. Especially if you don't naturally love winter and it isn't your favorite season season. Maybe that'll change by the end of this episode. Really quickly. Before we get into the conversation, I want to be sure you know that there are links in the show, notes for my top related past episodes and.
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Dr. Cari Leibowitz
Books, ways to get in touch with.
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Melina Palmer
Carrie and myself, and more. It's all within the app you're listening to and atthe brainy business.com 449 now let's jump right in. Dr. Carrie Leibowitz, welcome to the Brainy Business Podcast.
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Dr. Cari Leibowitz
Thank you. I'm thrilled to Be here.
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Oh, I'm so excited. I know, I know. I told you like we've become best friends. I was going to chat with you for forever without turning on the actually recording. But I feel like we'll have a follow up chat here. So for everyone who doesn't yet know you, can you share a little bit about yourself and the work that you do?
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Sure. So I'm a health psychologist. My PhD is in social psychology from Stanford University where I worked in the Stanford Mind and Body Lab. And a lot of that work really focused on understanding how our mindsets influence our health and our well being. And I did a lot of work actually in a health care space and looking at the doctor patient relationship and drawing from work on placebo effects on how the mind affects the body. But I also spent a year living in the Arctic in a city called Tromso, Norway, which is 200 miles north of the Arctic Circle. And there I was researching how people handle the long dark winters. They have something called the polar night where the sun doesn't rise for two months in Tromso. But they actually have a really amazing and to me surprising way of embracing winter. And so that experience and that research combined with my other mindset research inspired me to write my new book which is called how to Winter, which is all about sort of embracing winter very literally as a season, but also about how embracing winter as a season can teach us things about how our mindsets work and how we might find opportunity in other challenges. Right now I live in Amsterdam. In my free time, I hang out in the ceramic studio. I'm an amateur potter. I walk my dog a lot. Is that good for an intro? Did I do it?
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I love it, I love it. What sort of so ceramics are you sculpting or throwing pots and things on the wheel?
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Yeah, I do a lot of functional wear and it's really like for an academic, you know, who works in front of the computer all the time to do something like with my hands where I can't be on my phone, where I can like physically see the thing that I made in the world is very satisfying.
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Oh yes, I love that I, I have been back so one you commented on the things behind me. For those who watch any of my.
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Melina Palmer
Videos or if you're watching this on.
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Dr. Cari Leibowitz
Video, you see I have a lot of Lego and so building Lego is a thing for me where I do that a lot when I'm working on a book that I take these breaks where it feels like I'm being create creative but it's really just following steps that is like, I couldn't build the Lego Orchid or Starry Night without very specific steps getting me there. But the other thing that I've been really getting back into, because I love doing craft stuff, is. And it was interesting, you're talking about knitting and things in the. In the book is that I've been doing some crochet and where I can be listening to the books and things that I have. So I've been listening to your book while I've been doing some crochet work. And so it's like a balance of hearing about what I'm going to be talking about and absorbing it while I'm listening and doing some of that crochet.
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Totally. It's really crazy how well your mind can work when your hands are busy. And those, like, active breaks where, like, you're working on something is like, I do my best writing in my head before I sit down at the computer. Like, if I don't know what I'm going to write when I sit down at the computer, sitting there is not going to help me. I got to do something else till it gets written in my head and then I can just, like, spit it out.
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Yes, for sure. I love that you can't edit a blank page. Right. And it's so much easier to do the editing process for that. So when we think about winter, I know that you talk about in the book, and it's one of those things that we have so many, you know, metaphorically. And just, like, how we think about winter is this dark lull, bad sort of time. And you. The book starts off by talking about your own association and thoughts toward winter versus summer and just kind of what you expected to be researching when you went to Norway and how that all shifted. Can you share a little bit about that story?
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Sure. So I grew up at the Jersey Shore, just south of New York City, and, you know, is a beach town. So, like, summer is the best season. Everyone loves summer. Boo. Winter, like, that is the framework I grew up in. And, I mean, it was only, you know, later that I came to the study of mindsets. But it's so interesting because we have narratives about so many things that are so, so powerful and that are really influencing us and we're not always aware of them. And so, you know, I heard about this town in the Arctic where the sun doesn't rise for two months each winter. Actually found it because there's a psychologist there, Jor Vitor, so who became my mentor and collaborator on the research there. And he's a world leading expert in, you know, the study of human happiness and well being and what makes a good life. And you know, to my Jersey Shore brain, I was like, wow, like, isn't it weird that somebody who's like an expert in happiness lives in this place where the sun doesn't rise for two months? And so I was like, yeah, let's study winter depression. Let's study seasonal affective disorder, which I think is a really prevalent narrative in like the psychological world and the research world and also in like the general world. When we think about winter, it's all about like, warning, warning, warning. Winter makes you depressed, you know. And so I was like, oh, people there must be depressed during the winter. And I sort of was, you know, writing to him about coming up with a research proposal and he was sort of like, oh yeah, you can look at that. But actually, you know, other research hasn't found really high rates of seasonal affective disorder. There's not a big difference in mental health in summer and winter. And I was like, huh? Like that is really surprising to me because I had this very strong narrative about the meaning of winter in this place and that cold and long and dark equals depressing and bad and not fun. And so I sort of shifted my research subtly but meaningfully to say, not really why aren't people depressed or are people depressed? But to focus more on, okay, what is allowing them to thrive in this, you know, environmental circumstance in this climate that so many people around the world would either find depressing or would assume is depressing. And you know, that little shift really unlocked a whole different way of approaching the research and a whole different way of understanding, you know, what could even be possible to find in a study like this.
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Definitely. And like you said, I think that what people would assume is depressing and knowing that you can shape like you can feel sad or have that darkness, whether the environment is representing that around you or not, and to look for the, the, the bright spots in the darkness, I guess it feel this feels like, do you have just like metaphorical conversations? It feels like for all the, all the time that it's comparing all these sort of.
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Yeah, it's all of these things. And I think, I mean, you know, as a psychologist, like, I also am really interested in attributions and I think right when we have, when we have a bad day in summer, we're never like, oh, it's because of the summer, you know, but when we have a bad day in winter, we're like, it's because of winter. Like, I am depressed, you know, and so I think, you know, it's like anything else. We. We absorb these stories from the culture, from the people around us, maybe from our own lived experience, and then that becomes our explanation for everything. And so you can have a crappy day at any time of year, but I think during this one season, people are a lot more likely to attribute it to the climate or the weather or the season, which then, of course, like, reinforces our narratives about this. And all these metaphors, you know, don't help. Right. Like, dark is bad and light is good and cold is bad and warm is good. But, you know, the metaphors, they're an oversimplification of things. And when you're really hot, cold is good, and when it's too bright, dark is good. And like, actually you want both of those things pretty much all of the time. And so I think it's about sort of. Yeah. Trying to be more present or just realistic to what actually is rather than just letting our, like, scripts and our schemas run away from us and tell us what it's like, you know, Very much.
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Yeah. I was thinking a lot about the focusing illusion while you were just talking. And in the book as well, just this, you know, if we. And how the brain gets what it expects. That's why the. I was so delighted that you had the I don't. Not full chapter, but section about placebos. Right. And how those can impact whether we are going to feel like good or bad or this or that. But knowing how you can use that, everything having this opportunity to say, okay, so if I'm naturally going to take in the words around me, the thoughts, the metaphors, whatever, and how I'm going to kind of retrain and rewire my brain. So you did have a section that is talking about. So for people that particularly think, you know, winter bad, like, it's cold, it's yuck, whatever, it's dark, I hate it, blah.
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Melina Palmer
Right.
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Dr. Cari Leibowitz
But if you go through and intentionally are working to refocus, like, what is the positive that's out here and whether we combine this with some of the awe discussion, I think is great too. I've had someone on talking about awe and their research before as well, so I definitely. And what we see in nature. But can you share a little bit about that, you know, like, focused attention and the. How easy it can be to shift your mindset and the benefits that people have seen when instead of saying yuck that you kind of like Stop yourself and retrain your brain totally.
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So there's a lot of really powerful emerging research showing how our mindsets matter. How our mindsets influence our health, our well being, our emotions, our functioning. And it's easy to look at that and think that it is very like, woo woo magic, right? Like, I adopt this mindset and then I have all these great outcomes, like, poof, it just happens. But actually we can break it down and understand and study mindsets very scientifically and really have a deep and nuanced understanding of how they work, which is a lot of what I was doing in grad school with the Stanford Mind and Body Lab, which is headed by Aaliyah Crum, who's like an amazing researcher in this space. And one of the main ways that mindsets work is that they direct our attention, right? So let's use winter as this example. When it snows, it is true that you have to shovel your driveway if you have one. You have to clear off your car before driving to work. It might make it harder to get around. Like, there's all this stuff you have to contend with that can be annoying. It also is true that I would think most people agree that snow is objectively beautiful. It reflects the light, which makes it brighter. When it's dark out, it muffles sound. So it makes it quiet. It makes everything look clean. Both of these things are true. But whether you have the mindset that winter is dreadful or winter is wonderful might make you more likely to notice one of these or the other, right? And so if you have that winter is dreadful, then the second the snow is falling, you're running into your scripts about how annoying your commute is going to be tomorrow. And you're focusing on that, and that's influencing your emotions. It's probably influencing your behavior. You're saying, okay, I don't want to go make any plans or do anything after work or meet up with friends because it's traffic is going to be a nightmare, yada, yada, yada. But if you have this mindset that winter is wonderful, you're orienting to the possibilities of snow. A snowy walk, taking your kids sledding, drinking hot chocolate, and you're thinking accordingly, your emotions are going to be different and your behavior is going to be different. And so what seems like magic, right? I have this mindset about winter and all of a sudden I feel better and I'm more active and I'm more social and all of these things by magic, you can actually see some of these mechanisms by which it's working. And you can do this for lots of aspects of winter, right? Like, you can look at the darkness this way as an impediment or an opportunity for coziness and movie nights and candlelight dinners or the rain as something that is uncomfortable or something that is aesthetic and beautiful and really pleasant and good for the plants and all of those kinds of things. And you can also do it with other things in your life, right? Other challenges that you face. Because a lot of things that we encounter are ambiguous, right? Like, what is this extra assignment at work mean for me? Right. Is it just going to drag me down and be more stress, or is it an opportunity to do something I care about, to connect more with my colleagues, to learn and grow my skills? Both of those things might be true, but which one you focus on more is really going to influence your experience. And so when we talk about changing our mindsets or intervening on our mindsets, part of what we're trying to do is have that intentional moment of noticing this cycle and these patterns and interrupting it in a way that is adaptive, in a way that is useful and saying, okay, yes, it is true that I'm going to have to shovel my driveway, but really stressing about that and focusing on that now is maybe not going to make me feel better or motivate the behavior I want or help me enjoy living in this place that is snowy, you know? And so I think a lot of it comes down to this idea that, you know, when we try to cultivate different mindsets, we try to get out of the grooves that our mind is running on automatically and start sort of clearing a new path towards something that might feel better or be better for us or be more aligned with our goals or values.
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Definitely. And just even thinking about that shoveling.
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Melina Palmer
The snow in the driveway made me.
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Dr. Cari Leibowitz
Think about where you talk about rituals in the book and had Mike Norton on the show to talk about the ritual effect. And as we think about the opportunity that might exist to slow down and.
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Melina Palmer
Be more aware of what we're doing in those moments.
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Dr. Cari Leibowitz
And something like shoveling the driveway is, or, you know, cleaning up the house or doing whatever it is that we're doing, it's really easy to go that thing again. I can't believe I have to do this. Whereas if you turn it into, I do this row first and then I do this, or you're making different patterns, or you're aware of what's around you, and, you know, you can turn it into something that is more valuable to you, where you have to do it anyway. Like, why not do it in a way that it's going to be enjoyable and valuable for you?
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Totally. And a lot of this sort of finding the opportunities in winter is about. There's this thing you have to do anyway. There's this thing you can't control, right? You can't control when the sun rises. You can't control the temperature outside. You can't control the weather. So, okay, if you want to move to Spain or move to Hawaii, like, all power to you. But if you live in Seattle, if you live in New York, if you live in Minnesota and you're going to stay in those places, then how are you going to sort of deal with the reality of what's in front of you? And I think this idea of finding the opportunities is really powerful, Right. If you have to clean the house anyway, you can clean it and you can be grumpy about it, or you can put on a podcast or some music or a TV show, or call a friend and try to make it nice. You know, you can do it. And then afterwards, like, sit in your clean kitchen that doesn't have any dishes anymore and, like, have a cup of tea and, like, enjoy your handiwork, you know? And, you know, I think it. It can start to veer into this idea of, like, toxic positivity pretty quick, of, like, we should enjoy everything and make everything beautiful. And, like, that is not the life that I am living. But I do think, right, there's this idea of if you can do that 10% more, 15% more, 20% more, like, that is a win. And I think you can have room for all of these feelings with your mindset. Right. It's not saying I'm refusing to ever complain about winter or I'm refusing to ever not want to go outside because it's cold. It's about noticing that and being okay with it and then finding an opportunity anyway. It's about being like, ugh, like, I really don't feel like cleaning the house today and then being like, well, I'm gonna do it, so, like, I might as well make it nice, you know, like, there's room for all of that. That doesn't mean you have to be like a, you know, chipper Pollyanna, all that. Like, I'm from New Jersey. That's very much not my vibe, you know? But you can make it nice and find the opportunities and make things a little easier and better for yourself, while also, yeah, feeling how you feel.
- [21:51]
Melina Palmer
Right? Yeah. No, I love that.
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Dr. Cari Leibowitz
And, yeah, it's not that. It's that we should be, like you said, unicorns and rainbows all day, every day, and we shall never be sad again. But. But to know that there's opportunity in it. So I know I mentioned to you that one of the reasons I was really excited to talk to you today and where I think this is a very interesting layering in when we think about this as, like, winter as a mindset and understanding the metaphor of how we tie this into so many different seasons of life. Jobs, careers, relationships with people and things. And so similar to where we can't control the when the sun rises and if it's what the temperature is outside and whatever that happens to be, sometimes things happen in our life. We'll just use careers as an example. Whether it's unexpected job loss or say.
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Melina Palmer
You didn't get a promotion that you.
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Dr. Cari Leibowitz
Wanted or whatever that is that may feel wintry in the, in our approach to that. Right. Traditional winter versus the winter you're talking about.
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Melina Palmer
About.
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Dr. Cari Leibowitz
So what sort of, you know, thoughts and opportunities do you have about those other types of winters and how we can be more thoughtful in those areas?
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I think practicing doing this with winter is kind of. It's like, it's a little more low stakes, right? Like, it's a little friendlier and a little more accessible for people. And I think it really does train you to be like, okay, there's this thing I can't control. Maybe I wish it was different. Maybe I'm not happy about it. How am I going to make the most of it? And I think that is a really adaptive approach to take to any challenge you face in life, which we're all going to face. We're all going to have career setbacks. We're all going to have health challenges. We're all going to have difficult times when you have a career setback like that, right? Like, you've lost your job or you haven't gotten the promotion, or you haven't gotten a job that you really wanted. Like, you can be like, I don't like this. I wish it was another way. This was outside of my control. Is there an opportunity here? And if so, what is it, right? Is it the opportunity to take a step back and reevaluate what you're doing? Is it the opportunity to go for a different job and negotiate something better about the role or our salary? Is it an opportunity to move to a new place? Is it an opportunity to take a risk and try something new? Is it an opportunity to reconnect with old colleagues and friends and ask for support from your social network. You know, it could be an opportunity for any of those things. It doesn't mean it's, it's not still a challenging time and it doesn't mean that it's necessarily a fun time. But I think when you go at it with the eye of what can I control and what opportunities does this open up that maybe I wouldn't have had if the thing that I wanted worked out, it just helps you move towards a place of both acceptance and action. And I think everything can have that if you look at it that way. So a pretty extreme example is a colleague of mine in the Stanford Mind and Body Lab, Sean Zeon, did an intervention with patients going through cancer treatment and he found that helping them adopt the mindset that cancer is an opportunity was associated with better functioning, better health, better experience less distressed in terms of symptoms when they're going through cancer treatment. And what is it an opportunity for? A lot of people talk about it being an opportunity to connect with their loved ones, to lean on their social support network, to think about what's important to them and connect with their values. This doesn't mean that anybody likes having cancer or we're happy that cancer exists or people should be grateful to have cancer. Like that's so the opposite message. It's that given this reality and given that you're going through this, are there ways you can find opportunities here? And if you can do that and if you can lean on that in this especially challenging time, people function better, they have better outcomes, they feel better. And so you could imagine. I don't know of any research on this yet. Maybe you do, Molina, but something like, you know, looking at a job loss or a career setback as an opportunity, you could imagine that given that same situation, those who are able to look at it like that and move forward, forward from that place probably have better feelings about it and better career related outcomes than those who do something like unhealthy coping mechanisms like avoidance or remaining stuck and ruminating over it or any of those things that we know don't bring us towards a place of adaptive action.
- [26:56]
You know, definitely. And that's, I usually, if I don't have a top thing that comes to mind, it's like, oh yes, this, this is the study on this. And to the point that we're like, this has to exist, there has to.
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Be something related enough.
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Yeah, yeah. So it's definitely related. Is it specifically been researched in that piece of job loss? I'm Guessing someone has. And what I'll say is, hey, leaning on our network here of those who are listening, I guarantee someone's going to email me right now and tell me what the, what some research is that you've done or that you've read that ties into this. I'm sure there's quite a bit of it and it's just not coming to mind for me right now. But we're excited.
- [27:41]
Oh, that's great. Okay. Make sure when you get it, you send it to me because I want to see it too.
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I will. And we can say, yeah, share it on those socials too. You know, tag us so that we're able to see that research and connect on that point. So for everyone who is. If you were going to give people advice of like, where to start if they're going for their, whether it's literal or like personal mindset, winter, you know, for wherever that comes up, what would you recommend to people as a thing to embrace if they're going to do one thing to have a better approach.
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Melina Palmer
With wintering, what would that look like?
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Dr. Cari Leibowitz
I would say really it's about adapting to the season. So when I was living in Tromso in Norway, right, they go from 24 hours of two months in the winter where the sun's not rising to in the summer, 24 hours a day of full sunlight where the sun never sets. And so of course, they are changing their behavior with the seasons. They are sleeping more in the winter, they're maybe socializing less. They're eating different foods, they're doing different kinds of recreation. They're adapting to the environmental changes. And I feel that so many of us in sort of our modern world feel that we should have the same routine and the same productivity year round, regardless of what's going on around us in the natural world, regardless of what's going on inside our bodies, regardless of what's going on in the news. Like, we have this expectation that it's somehow a personal or moral failure if we, like, have some seasonal ebb and flow. And I think that's a really unhelpful perspective. And so I would say lean into adapting to the winter and doing things differently. So that can look like a lot of different things. And what it looks like for you, you know, really will depend on your lifestyle and your preferences, right? So maybe it's sleeping more and resting more and slowing down and being less social and spending more time at home reading books and crocheting and doing Lego or in the pottery studio. Maybe it's the foods that you eat are different, and you really want, like, warming, earthy foods or you eat at a different time of day. Like, I eat dinner much earlier in the winter because I go to bed much earlier in the winter than I do in the summer. Maybe it's how you move your body or exercise. Maybe. Maybe instead of, you know, doing your intense cardio, running, biking, swimming routine, you do strength training or yoga or slow walks or whatever feels good to you. Maybe it's in your workflow. So, like, actually, as a writer, it's really hard for me to write in the summer, living in Amsterdam. Like, if it's a nice day out, I want to be outside. I want to be in the sun. Like, I want to be on a terrace drinking a beer. I don't want to be in front of my computer. But the winter darkness is a very creative time for me, where I am resting more, but I also am writing more, and I'm more productive in other ways. And some of the other things that I do in the height of the summer gets crowded out. And so I think, you know, whatever it is for you, whether it's personal or professional or physical, changing your behavior in some way and really marking the rhythms of the seasons and saying, winter is my time for blank, whatever that is. It could be rest, it could be writing, it could be crocheting. It could be any of those things. But, like, having it be a special time of year where you do things that you feel good about and look forward to really turns the season from one of limitations into one of possibilities, which I think is such a big thing. I think so many people feel limited by the winter weather, by the cold and the dark and the wet. And so reframing, oh, I can't do XYZ if you can't be outside or go kayaking or go biking or whatever, or feel that that's not as enjoyable for you in the winter, because actually, you can do anything in the winter that you can do in the summer with the right clothes. But if you are not as interested in that, that's very allowed. But instead of saying, I can't do that thing, be like, what does that make space for? What does that enable me to do? And focusing on the possibilities of that rather than the limitations just makes you experience the whole season completely differently.
- [32:14]
And that it can be that thing.
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Melina Palmer
You look forward to, right?
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Dr. Cari Leibowitz
So it's like, oh, yay, I get to do that in the same way that you would say, it's getting sunny enough, it's warm Enough I can start kayaking again. Like, what's the thing that you go, oh, yay, it's. This is like for those who are. Who live their best pumpkin spice life, which is where the. The way that like fall has become that. That aspect. I think that so many of the aspects that people love about fall in that, like, coziness and getting to bring out your boots and, you know, the change in the leaves and the awe that you can experience. Like, I love to see this and it's so beautiful and whatever. Just like that in. Right. And we're gonna like, level it up. One more aspect to the things that we can love about that winter time. And that's. Can be holiday related, but doesn't have to be, especially if that's not a big piece of what you do. But you can create traditions that aren't around holidays. Right. You can have the. And if it is like you said that hot chocolate or sitting around the fire as we close out, I really loved where you're talking about the pieces of the having a fire, whether it's like a real one or even, you know, they have that. You can have it like the fire channel on your tv.
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Ambient fire.
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Yeah, right. And adjusting the light. And you were talking a little bit about creativity there and how like big, bright overhead lights, we're not as creative maybe as we are in that kind of moodier sense. So as we, like, close this out.
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Melina Palmer
Think a little bit about creativity and light.
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Dr. Cari Leibowitz
Can you share about that?
- [33:57]
Yeah. There's actually research that found that people were more creative in dim lighting than bright lighting. So they thought up more novel solutions to a problem they were given and a greater number of solutions. And the theory is that darkness is disinhibiting. Right. And that in the brightness you are more aware of yourself and you're more self conscious. And that the darkness unlocks creativity. That's also why it unlocks intimacy. Right. Both in sort of romantic relationships, but also in friendships and family relationships. So turn the lights low, eat dinner by candlelight, have that sort of quiet, cozy dinner gathering that is really only made possible by winter's darkness. And this is something that you'll see is very big throughout Scandinavia, is they will never have big, bright overhead lights on all the time. It's always going to be little lights, lamps, candles, because that works with the darkness. It makes the darkness into an asset, into a vibe, into something that is special. Rather than saying, I'm going to try to fight against it by banishing it by putting on all these overhead Lights. And to me, that is so symbolic of this idea of working with the season, adapting to the season, looking for the opportunities, rather than being like, I'm going to try to pretend it's not happening by just, like, flooding all my rooms with so much light. And so. And I think that this is something also. I hear a lot from musicians and artists and poets and other people that the darkness, that nighttime and winter, when there's more nighttime, can be a really creative and sort of prolific time for them. So I think there's lots of ways we can look at winter as full of possibility and as an asset. I just think we're not as used to recognizing it on sort of like a personal or a cultural level. But you don't have to look that hard, and you can see that it's there.
- [36:01]
I love it. And, you know, we have so many opportunities to. It doesn't have to be, you know, from an all or nothing or like, we're saying from 0 to 100% of the time that we now love everything about winter, everything that it goes with it. But if we say, you know, I'm gonna notice one thing today, right? I'm gonna. And if you're looking for those moments.
- [36:25]
Melina Palmer
Of awe, if you're looking for the.
- [36:26]
Dr. Cari Leibowitz
Opportunity to be cozy, if you catch yourself saying, ugh, I hate that, like, but what's the value in it, right? If we just, like, take those one little moment, see what happens.
- [36:38]
Totally. And I always. I encourage my students and anybody I talked about this, to run little experiments, right? Be like, this week I'm going to practice embracing the darkness. This week I'm going to practice noticing what there is to, you know, that it's beautiful during the winter. This week I'm going to practice, you know, doing my creative hobbies, you know, as a winter activity, and see how you feel after a week. And not everything is going to work for everyone, but a lot of these things, like, they're deceptively simple, right? Like, you hear them and you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. Light some candles, blur. Like it's nothing that hasn't been said a bazillion times, you know? But when you do it with this framework of embracing winter and with this intention to shift your mindset, it's, like, actually crazy how profound some of these things can feel and how big of an impact they can have. And then the effect will literally, I'm sorry, snowball, like, through the whole season, you know, and so just try it. Just try it with an open mind, see what works for you, try a couple of different things, see how you feel after a week. Talk about it with your friends, your family and I think you'll be surprised by what a difference it makes.
- [37:56]
I love it. And what a perfect way to end the conversation.
- [37:59]
Melina Palmer
As we're learning how to winter, we'll.
- [38:01]
Dr. Cari Leibowitz
Of course have link to your book and things in the show notes. And so for everyone who is ready though they they want to learn more, they want to share about that study we were talking about with the, you know, the job loss or whatnot that but what's their best way to connect.
- [38:17]
Melina Palmer
With you and to follow and learn.
- [38:19]
Dr. Cari Leibowitz
More about your work.
- [38:20]
Sure. You can go to my website carilebowitz.com there. I also I have a substack that goes out only during the winter months called Wintry Mix that has little tips and research and things you can do to embrace the season and you know, if you're really sold. I also do a lot of talks and workshops for organizations, so I would be delighted to come to any of your organizations and talk more about mindset and how to winter.
- [38:49]
I love it. Well, thank you so much. We'll of course have links in the show notes. And just thanks again for the book and for joining me today. It was delightful to chat with with you.
- [38:57]
Thanks Molina. This is a great chat. Loved it.
- [39:01]
Melina Palmer
Thank you again to Carrie Leibowitz for joining me on the show today. What got your brain buzzing in today's conversation? For me, I really love any time I get to learn about and share how powerful our brains are and how simple reframes can impact our experience and mindset. It's amazing to hear about all the research in this book which shows how a little change in focus or taking even a few minutes a day to feel awe from nature or to train your brain to stop defaulting to a winter equals bad mindset and how it can all have such positive ripples throughout life and work. And I really loved the discussion about how this can apply to a personal winter, whether that's job loss or something with relationships or anything else. Just knowing that unexpected expected things will happen.
- [39:51]
Dr. Cari Leibowitz
You don't have to love them, but.
- [39:53]
Melina Palmer
You can learn to see the positive in them and find the opportunity they're creating for you. And even with things like extreme medical diagnoses, these shifts can be powerful enough to impact your healing and overall experience for you and your family during that difficult time. The brain truly is amazing and that's something to keep in mind as you enter into the winter, whether that's physical or mental or anything else. What aspect of how to Winter will you be applying? First, come share it with us on social media. We would love to hear about what you try and how it works for you. There are of course links to connect with both Cari and myself in the show, notes to make it easy, along with links to my top related past episodes and books, including how to Winter and more. It's all waiting for you in the app you're listening to and atthebrainybusiness.com 449. And thank you again to Dr. Cari Leibowitz for joining me on the show today. It was a delight to chat with and learn from you. Join me Tuesday for another Brainy episode of the Brainy Business Podcast.
- [41:02]
Dr. Cari Leibowitz
It's going to be a lot of fun.
- [41:03]
Melina Palmer
You don't want to miss it. Until then, thanks again for listening and learning with me, and remember to be thoughtful.
- [41:16]
Dr. Cari Leibowitz
Thank you for listening to the Brainy Business Podcast. Molina offers virtual strategy sessions, workshops and other services to help businesses be more brain friendly. For more free resources, visit thebrainybusiness.com.