← The Brainy Business | Understanding the Psychology of Why People Buy | Behavioral Economics
The Brainy Business | Understanding the Psychology of Why People Buy | Behavioral Economics
453. Elevating Brand Perception: DJ Sprague’s Journey from Limos to Reputation King
00:51:16
In this episode of The Brainy Business podcast, Melina Palmer is joined by DJ Sprague, an expert in e-commerce, enterprise sales, and reputation management. DJ has worked with major brands such as Hyundai, Toyota, and NASCAR, and has a wealth of...
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- [00:00]
Melina Palmer
Hey there, Melina. Here I'm excited to share. I'm teaching two virtual courses in applied Behavioral economics which are enrolling now. Advanced concepts of behavioral economics and internal communication and change management. So if you're interested, don't delay, learn more and enroll at HBL. Like Human BehaviorLab, TAMU like Texas A&M University. EDU. Again, that's HBL TAMU EDU EDU and click on certificate program when you're ready. Let's start the show. Welcome to episode 453 of the Brainy Business Understanding the Psychology of why People Buy. In today's episode, I'm excited to introduce you to DJ Sprague. Ready? Let's get started.
- [00:56]
You are listening to the Brainy Business Podcast where we dig into the psychology of why people buy and help you incorporate behavioral economics into your business, making it more brain friendly. Now, here's your host, Melina Palmer.
- [01:12]
Hello. Hello everyone. My name is Melina Palmer and I want to welcome you to the Brainy Business Podcast. In today's conversation, I'm joined by Dwayne DJ Sprague. DJ helps online brands grow by improving and amplifying their reputation as well as increasing their site traffic and conversions. DJ has a rich background in E commerce, enterprise sales, marketing, advertising, PR and reputation management, working with major brands like Hyundai, Toyota, J.D. power and Associates, NASCAR, the Utah Jazz and hundreds of e commerce websites. DJ has earned several accolades including speaker of the Year from the Executive Committee Now Vistage and holds a Master's degree in Integrated Marketing Communications with top honors and global first place awards and multiple certifications in Behavioral science, SEO, CRO and e Commerce marketing from cxl. He's also the co author of Reputation King, co host of the E Commerce Traffic and Conversion podcast, a keynote speaker and CMO of Shopper Approved. Really quickly before we get into the conversation, I want to be sure you know that there are links in the show, notes for my top related past episodes and books, ways to get in touch with DJ and myself and more. It's all within the app you're listening to and@thebrainybusiness.com 453. Now let's jump right in. DJ Sprague, welcome to the Brainy Business podcast.
- [02:46]
Dwayne DJ Sprague
Thank you Melina. It's excited to be here.
- [02:49]
Melina Palmer
Yeah, I am delighted to have you and be able to chat about integrated marketing and reputation and all sorts of fun brainy stuff. Before we really jump into the conversation, for everyone who doesn't yet know you, can you share a little bit about yourself and the Work that you do?
- [03:07]
Dwayne DJ Sprague
Absolutely. I've been in marketing, advertising, PR for over 35 years. I've owned three different agencies. I've been CMO of national brands. I've been in enterprise sales with Eastman Kodak. I've owned my own limousine business when I was in college. And for the past five years I've been CMO of Shopper Approved, which is a rating and review slash reputation management company for the e commerce industry. And we also have a sister company, Local Reviews, that does reputation management for location based or service based businesses.
- [03:51]
Melina Palmer
All right, I'm, I'm intrigued by so many things in there, but I feel like we have to at least say, you know, so first, you know, you're, you're in college and you say limo business, right? Where was, were you extra popular or like, what was the, how did that even come about?
- [04:08]
Dwayne DJ Sprague
Yeah, it was pretty popular, I guess. So how'd that come about? I was 20 years old, I was in college and I read an article in the newspaper that the Olympics worked, which were coming to LA Summer Olympics. The only vehicles that would be able to pull up out front and stay out front was luxury limousines. We're not talking about the bus limousines, we're talking about the Cadillac Lincoln stretch limousines. Right. And so I thought, my entrepreneurial mind, that there's going to be a high demand for limousines during the Summer Olympics in Los Angeles. I didn't have any money because I was a college student, but I did meet a gentleman that owned a couple of brand new white Cadillac stretch limousines. And he said, you know, I was thinking about getting the business, but it's too much work, so would you like to take over the lease on these cars? And I said, yeah, that sounds great. And he said, okay, I just need like whatever it was, $3,000 deposit per car, et cetera, et cetera. And I said, I don't have that. In fact, I don't have the gas money to get at home. He lived about an hour and a half away from Santa Barbara where I was going to school. And so literally on a handshake we went to lunch. And after lunch on a handshake, he gave me the keys to the first car and loaned me $20 for gas. And that night I met a guy that was going on anniversary with his wife and one surprise her. So that was my first client. The very first day I bought it home. And after two months I took over the second car. And after about six months I bought the company. They used to drive for as A chauffeur, and then bought another competitor down Los Angeles. And soon I had three offices and five cars and people working for me. And I was 20 years old, so that was kind of exciting.
- [06:12]
Melina Palmer
Wow.
- [06:12]
Dwayne DJ Sprague
The downside is it was about 100 hours a week of work, so I had to drop out of college. And then after about a year of running the business, I thought, this is not what I want to do the rest of my life. So I sold it, went back to school, finished my degree. But it was a lot of fun. Met a lot of people, a lot of celebrities, movie producers, company executives. Learned a lot about people and psychology and became enamored, really with marketing, because back then all you had was Yellow Pages and of course, tv, radio. So I started to get really creative in the. In the advertising and marketing and went directly to the travel agencies where I did a deal with them, where I gave them a commission if they booked a limousine with air travel or cruise ships, whatever. Because in Santa Barbara, you're two hours from la and you have to get to LA to go anywhere, really. Right. At a very small local airport. But if you want to go on a cruise ship or any place of any distance, you had to get to LA first. And so there's a lot of money in Santa Barbara. A lot of money. And so I created this luxury limousine service to take people to the airport and the cruise ships and everything else, and ended up creating quite a clientele, list of celebrities and hung out with a lot of really neat people and learned a lot.
- [07:36]
Melina Palmer
That's fascinating. I wasn't by. I told you. And I think people know. I just like to let the conversation take us where it does. Right. And I think with this. So I'm fascinated by. So I think for anybody who's listening, you know, we get people that are listening to the show that reach out and are thinking about starting something or. But, you know, it's hard to kind of jump in to the thing. And we know, you know, when you're in college and you don't have all the entanglements of the world, you know, it's a different thing to go start something. But, you know, what advice do you have for someone that has a whim or an idea or, you know, what are the. When would you not have jumped on that idea or, you know, what did you learn? I don't know. Just some. Yeah, great questions.
- [08:28]
Dwayne DJ Sprague
Well, first of all, get scrappy. So, for example, I made my own brochures. I took color pictures of the. Of the limousines and pasted Them onto my letterhead and on the backside was a pricing schedule, you know, flat rate, Santa Barbara to Los Angeles airport or the cruise lines or, you know, wherever. And then an hourly rate and then recommended services that we could do, you know, anniversaries, birthdays, weddings, etc. Etc. But the real key was differentiating in the sense that everybody else was, believe it or not, there was 13 limousine companies in Santa Barbara. I was one of 13 and I was the upstart and I was obviously the youngest kid in the block. Everybody else was well into their 40s, 50s, whatnot. And here I'm a 20 year old kid with no money. And so I had to get really scrappy and really creative. But what I thought was, well, okay, looking at all these competitors, basically they're hiring cab drivers to drive limousines on the side. So they show up kind of frumpy, you know, at best they're wearing a sport coat and slacks. And here's this, you know, beautiful Cadillac or Lincoln stretch limousine and this kind of frumpy driver. And so I got a three piece black suit, I got an English driving cap, English driving gloves, and I bought a red carpet that would roll out. And so when people came out to the car, they saw this very traditional, very formal, English looking chauffeur with a red carpet. I had red roses for the woman, I had a bottle of complimentary champagne, I had the mints in the car, I had complimentary liquor, I had crystal glasses, every house had plastic. And I had custom made Persian rugs in the back of the car. I mean, it looked really, really exquisite. And then I had a Polaroid camera, so I take a picture of the couple or the party in front of the limousine on the red carpet and it just blew people away. So the whole point was differentiation. So I created this integrated strategy where the driver, so I got all my drivers looking the same. The red carpet, the car was always washed, waxed, detailed to the nth degree. And then making sure that when they got back in the car after going to dinner or drinks or wherever they're going, everything was clean, had portable vacuums and the glasses were cleaned. And it looked like they just got in there for the first time. Every other service they didn't pick up. It's like going to a hotel. You're there for three nights and after a while it's like, this room is filthy. Right? But my limousines were always extremely clean. Every time, yeah, they got back in, even if they're gone for 10 minutes, the first thing the driver would do is detail that car. And so people just were blown away at the service. And I called it Five Star Limousine. And this is back in 1982, before, you know, stars and reviews were even a big thing. But I heard of five star hotels, so I wanted to have a five star limousine service. And so that kind of piqued people's interest. What is a five star limousine like? And so my whole thing was, I'm going to deliver a five star experience. And people talked about it. I had celebrities that would call me from Hollywood, Beverly Hills, and I was in Santa Barbara, two hours away, and they'd have to pay me two hours just to get to their house. And I said, there's hundreds of limousine companies in Beverly Hills. Why would you call me out of Santa Barbara? And they said, because you're the only one that makes us feel special. You have the red carpet, you have the crystal glassware, you have the uniform chauffeurs. We're willing to pay for it, right? We're willing to pay a premium price because they'd pay two hours down and two hours back before they even got in the car because. Right. They've got to pay for the travel time and plus they charge a higher rate per hour than everybody else. But people were thrilled to pay it because they felt like this was an exquisite, unique experience that nobody else was willing to do. And that was my point of differentiation. I knew that if people are going to hire a limousine, they want to have a limousine experience, not just a cab driver in a really nice car.
- [12:54]
Melina Palmer
Yeah. What I really love. Well, I love so much of what you said. And obviously it ties into what we're here to talk about today. So that makes a lot of sense and feels like such a good starting point of your career. It makes so much sense about all the different things that you've done, of which I know very few. But I'm intrigued to hear even more about that. But like you said, there is not that people were willing to pay the higher price. You said they were thrilled to pay the higher price. Right. And that is such a different mindset. When you think about who you are catering to the context of what they're trying to achieve. Why are they doing this? What is the larger picture here of what we're trying to do? In a shorter book that you have that's talking about integrated marketing, it opens up with this story about Hilo Hattie in Hawaii. And I think, you know, that ties into, just as you think about what is it that people are trying to Achieve with the experience and how can you deliver on all these different levels and make this cohesive experience for people that meets them where they are and in this dream of where they want to be. Do you want to share a little bit about Helo Hatties and any other examples that come to mind for you there?
- [14:20]
Dwayne DJ Sprague
Absolutely. So my master's degree is in integrated marketing communications. And I became enamored with this concept of consistency and continuity in a brand experience, which of course, I pioneered in my limousine business back in 1980. And ever since, I've been really enamored with this idea of consistency because it drove me crazy when a brand would advertise one thing or their creative, their ads would look really elegant and exquisite and upscale. And then the brand experience is like, is this the same company? What am I missing here? Because what I thought I was going to get what I expected based on the public facing brand versus the actual experience of the brand were very different. And so after creating several ad agencies and really touting integrated marketing communications, I ended up getting a master's degree in it. But I spent a lot of time in Hawaii. I love Hawaii. In fact, I just got back from Hawaii yesterday and Hilo Hattie is a gift shop in the Hawaiian Islands. And I was really enamored with, we're staying at a hotel in Waikiki. And in the little hotel, you know, magazine that had an ad for Hilo Hattie and they said, free parking or free shuttle. We'll come pick you up at your hotel or you can park for free in our parking lot. Now, in Waikiki, that's a big deal because you pay for parking everywhere, right? There's, it's like New York City. You got to pay for parking everywhere you go. So. Oh, that's cool. Free parking, free shuttle. Well, we ended up driving and sure enough, free parking. And we walk into this, this like vestibule entryway and they've got free coffee, free tea, free water, free drinks. They give you a lei, they give you a little gift box, they give you coupons before you even enter the store. So you're already like, wow, I got free parking in Waikiki. That's amazing. I've got this free lei, I got these free guests, free coffee, free drinks, free, oh, snacks like these macaroons and things. It's like, I haven't spent a nickel yet, and they've already bequeathed me all these wonderful gifts, right? And then you walk in, there's no windows, by the way, and there's no clocks. It's like Vegas. You don't know how long you're there. And it's well laid out. And all of the employees are dressed in Hawaiian garb. So you feel like you're in old school Hawaii from the 50s. And there's people walking around again offering you drinks and snacks and just like really white glove treatment. And the whole experience, from the ad to the welcoming to the buying experience was just very, very high end. Now, I only went to this one store in Waikiki. I know they have many, so I don't know what the other ones are like, but I thought, wow, this is the way a retail experience should be. They advertise a unique value proposition. They delivered on that unique proposition, and they went above and beyond. They even surprised me. They had a wow factor. They gave me things and did things that I didn't even expect. And then, you know, one of the things they did was a gal walks around with his little treasure chest and opens the chest and you get to pull out a little free, you know, surprise gift. And some of them are quite, you know, nice, and some of them are just kind of like, okay, tchotchkes. But it was just a lot of fun, a lot of surprise, and it was a wonderful retail experience. I thought, okay, there's a good example of an integrated strategy where there's no disconnects, there's no disappointments, there's no cognitive dissonance. You get what you expected and more, which, of course is what a brand should do. Because if you're only delivering what people expect, there's no wow. If you deliver what they expect and then deliver the unexpected in a positive way, there's the wow, there's the memorable factor. So going back to, you know, behavioral science, there's the peak end rule. So the peak end rule is people remember the peak experience and the very last part of the experience, the peak experience being either the very best part or the very worst part. It can be positive or negative. But that's what they remember about a brand experience. And I think that's what, you know, Hilo Hattie really delivers, is they had this kind of this peak experience with that little treasure chest thing. And then the end experience was, you know, just, just a very wonderful thank you and gratitude and then, you know, more coffee and snacks on the way out. And it was just. Just a wonderful experience. And that's what I delivered in my limousine business too, by the way, right? With the red carpet experience, the. The Polaroid, which, by the way, I gave them the Polaroid photograph At the very end. So now they remember their five star limousine experience as a kind of a final thank you. And they forgot about it because they took the picture at the beginning and then gave them the picture at the end. And it was just, it was just a nice, nice way to create that peak end kind of brand experience. And really, if you're going to create a powerful brand and charge a premium and have people excited to pay that premium, you need to deliver that integrated experience. You need to be thinking about the wow factors, the wow moments, the peaks and the end. You know, where can we create a peak experience? Where they're going to be like, wow, that was really unexpected and amazing. And then at the very end, so their last mental image, last memory is, oh, that was a great experience. Think about a restaurant, how many times you've been to a nice restaurant. And the last experience is they never come with a bill. And you're waiting and you're waiting and you're waiting. It's like, we got, we got an appointment, we got a movie, we got something, a party, something to go to. And 15 minutes later you still have the bill. So that last experience, even though the meal was exquisite, everything was exquisite. You're waiting for 15 minutes, or it seems like 15 minutes to get your bill. And so that last end experience isn't exactly exquisite. And so what does it do? It taints your whole perception of the brand. So you really want to think about and structure your brand experience around integration. So many companies, their sales department operates in a silo, their marketing operates in a silo, their PR operates in a silo, their customer service or support operates in a silo. Nobody's communicating. So the support doesn't know what the sales has promised. Sales doesn't know what marketing is doing, marketing doesn't know what PR is doing. So you have these disjointed messages and brand experiences and even training and everything's not leveled up. So you've got to get everything leveled up so that the brand experience is consistent and contiguous from beginning to end with a surprise peak moment here or there to really give people that wow factor. And that's really what integrated marketing should be, is not just a consistent message, but more than a consistent message, a consistent brand experience. So you're delivering consistently on a very positive experience. And that's where, as you know, you wrote the book, people are willing to pay a premium price because of the experience and how they feel. Right? It's the emotion, it's not the logic, it's how they Feel. And I can't tell you how many people in my limousine experience told me, you make us feel special. You make us feel unique. And this one guy, very wealthy businessman, he took his wife out four or five times a year in my car. Birthdays, anniversaries, Right. And one time he gave me a thousand dollar tip. And this is early 80s, so that's what, over $3200 today with inflation. And I said, wow, I didn't expect that. And he says, well, you make my wife feel special and that's worth it. Wow. You know, okay. That's what it's about. It's about making people feel special. It's not about delivering what they expect. It's about delivering what they don't expect in a positive way.
- [22:46]
Melina Palmer
Yeah, yeah. And like you said, the having that end piece and knowing, like thinking about that full experience and the photos, I talk a lot about, you know, for Disneyland, that they know that the experience doesn't end when you leave the park, but it's actually, you know, you get back in the day, you know, we had to wait for photos to be developed. It was when you would get those photos at the end and if it looks dull and kind of muddy, you know, you kind of like, oh, gosh, I guess it wasn't as fun as I remember. Right. It could totally throw everything off. And so they worked with Kodak to paint the park in colors that would look good when printed on Kodak paper because that's what everybody. And then you're more likely to have this great end moment and knowing that the end isn't always when you think it should be right, or when you think, well, we're done, right? Our job is over. And so that piece with the, you know, Polaroid being the thing in the, you know, like I said, Early 80s, a very different experience where today, you know, there's maybe something else you would do in that way to help people feel special and to have that immediate memory of what they did. And they're going to go talk about it, right. So they want to tell people, I'm guessing, didn't have to invest a ton of money in advertising in that process. Because you have this word of mouth of people wanting to say, oh, you should definitely use these people. You got to go five star. Like, we're five star people. You got to go five stars. A one name, super smart in that way. But then you also were talking about thinking about these other pieces of where those clients are and having good relationships with said, the hotels, the travel agents, the cruise line, whatever, that they're going to be recommending you and you're recommending them. And this great integrated. So like an integrated brand experience is. Yes, it's that customer facing stuff. It's internal teams and knowing that we have to be all, you know, living and breathing and feeling and experiencing the same stuff. We're thinking about our customers and everything in the same way, our experience. And it's your relationships with vendors, with potential partners. Right. There's so much more in an integrated experience than what it may feel like at the beginning. What are your thoughts on that?
- [25:16]
Dwayne DJ Sprague
100%. Case in point. I would take some of the top travel agents. There was 20, I think 22 travel agencies in Santa Barbara. Travel agencies used to be a thing, right? Because you had to go to travel agency to get your tickets and your, you know, cruises and package trips and all that. Of course, you don't do that today, but back then you had no other option. So again, Santa Barbara, a lot of discretionary income. And so there's 22 travel agencies. And I found out who the top agents were and they also took a lot of trips because they got to go either for free or almost free. So I said, look, next time you go on a trip, call me. I will take you, your family, husband, whatnot, to the airport or the cruise ship, complimentary. Which blew them away. Right? Because back then that was a $120 trip. And again, inflation, that's almost $400 today. And so then I would take them and take pictures, and they would take pictures. I'd use their camera to take a picture of them in front of the limousine, the red carpet, the whole bit. And then what they would do when they got back is they would tell their clients, oh my gosh, you got to get five star limousine. Look at my pictures. It's amazing. This is not what you think a limousine is. This is completely different. So they became my huge word of mouth brand ambassadors. And they would just talk it up and everybody would do, oh, okay, I'm doing it, you know. And so they would just do all the selling for me. I didn't have to advertise. I just had to create relationships with the travel agencies and they would do it for me. And then everything was just word of mouth. And then, of course, like you say, the people that I worked with, they would tell their friends, neighbors, associates, etc. I worked with a lot of movie producers and they would. In fact, I did the whole, oh, it's not grand opening, but movie premiere for Raiders of the Lost Ark. Yeah, yeah. And that was. That was incentive, Arvis. I did the whole cast and crew and had all my cars there and they. It was amazing, right? So I met all the celebrities and Michael Douglas and Danny DeVito and Jane Russell and on and on and on. It was really quite amazing. And of course, once they have a great experience, then they just keep using you.
- [27:40]
Melina Palmer
Yeah. Awesome. That's very cool. So as you think about other brands you've worked with, and so I'm kind of torn between kind of options. I like to throw out these kind of choose your own adventure opportunities too, right? So there's the one side of where have you seen where this can go wrong for companies, right? So if they don't have that integrated experience. You talked about it a little bit, right? We talked a little bit about that cognitive dissonance piece. But, you know, what should someone be looking out for? Why does this matter to invest in? Because if you are in a siloed organization like this where you have different goals for different departments and different VPs, like, it is not a small undertaking to shift your processes to be an integrated marketing and brand experience, right? So I think there's an opportunity with some of those pitfalls of where it hasn't worked out or if you haven't done it right, what the problem would be, why it's worth it. The other side of that being, you know, another experience, like, you know, a brand that maybe it's one you've worked with that's gone through that process and seen the light and had this like kind of shining moment at the end, or another example like Hilo Hattie. I'll just let you take that wherever you feel inspired to go.
- [28:56]
Dwayne DJ Sprague
Yeah. Thank you. So structurally, and this is where companies fall apart in this area is again, they have a VP of marketing, public relations, sales, sometimes communications, PR, customer support, et cetera. And then those VPs report to maybe a CEO or maybe a CMO. The problem is that they should have a overarching VP of integrated marketing, which most people don't. And that person should be making sure that everything is on cue sequence standards. So they only look at, okay, let's make sure that each division, each department, each team is delivering on the brand promise. If the brand promise is X and this team over here is delivering Y, certainly that's not going to be a consistent, cohesive, integrated brand experience. And that one brand experience can tank the whole brand reputation. It can tank retention, it can tank repeat sales or even initial sales, et cetera. Because that one bad experience can be enough to where it's like, okay, I'm out, right? So if you have an integrated marketing director or VP or manager that makes sure every team, every division, every department is delivering on the brand promise, that's how you make that work. And unfortunately, very, very few companies do that. Now that's one thing I did. When I was CMO of a national franchise, they were recruiting me from another company because I have a lot of automotive experience and there's an automotive franchise and they're in 34 states, almost 200 locations, multibillion dollar company. And the recruiter called me up day before Thanksgiving and said, you know, hey, we've been looking for somebody just like you for like a year and a half and man, glad we found your profile on LinkedIn. We'd love to recruit you as CMO. And as she's talking, I'm doing a Google search and you know, five, 10 minutes in the conversation, I said, no thanks. What, you don't even know what the offer is yet? I said, well, I'm looking at your reviews online. And I said, you know, you really don't have good reviews. And I don't know that I want to, you know, put my name on a brand that has bad reviews across the web. Not just one site, but many. And she said, yeah, we know we don't know how to manage our reputation. We don't, you know, have a process or a system in place. And that's one of the reasons, you know, we called you, we know that you worked for J.D. power and you know, you understand the space. So if you come on board, this can be, you know, the first thing you tackle. So I did and we went from like a, you know, 1.2 to a 4.1, 4.2 across all of the review platforms. And by putting a systematic process in place, which is one of the reasons I really wanted to write this book, Reputation King, because that kind of talks about some of those strategies. And in very short order, we turned around the reviews on five different review platforms and coincidentally, leads went up, traffic went up, sales went up, revenue went up, retention went up, and it affected the entire business. So I created this integrated strategy around not only reviews, but also did a lot of research and one on one interviews and focus group interviews and email surveys to our customers and our lost prospects and our past customers. So everybody that was a customer but is no more, somebody that was qualified to buy but didn't, and then the people that, you know, were current customers surveyed them all focus Groups one on one and email surveys put together this whole extensive report. I said here are all the areas that we need to improve on that are creating a disjointed brand experience. And so took that on, did training, traveled around the country to all the different franchise locations, did on site location training, did videos, did training at our annual conferences and just leveled up those areas of deficit where the brand experience wasn't delivering on the brand promise and reviews went up even more. So that's another example of creating an integrated strategy and you just have to be willing to hear the truth and actually interview your customers and hear what they have to say and let them speak in their own words. We had open ended questions, we had close ended questions, we let them speak in their own minds where they thought we could improve the product, the service, the experience, the follow up, the communications, the in store experience, the post purchase experience, the entire gamut from beginning to end. And when you can then map that out and quantify it and show the brand. Here's where we've got work to do and here's where we're doing great and we're going to start here because this is a kind of a low point that we need to really improve and then just keep ratcheting up and then just getting everything equalized and leveled up across the board. And I tell you, it's a game changer. It's an absolute game changer. But if the departments and divisions aren't willing to participate and play along, then you have an uphill battle. So you got to get rid of the fiefdoms, you got to get rid of the silos, you got to get rid of the defensive posturing and it has to come from the top down, has to come from the CEO. Like this is what we're doing and if you're not willing to do it, then this isn't the place for you because we need to level up.
- [34:59]
Melina Palmer
Yeah. And I think there's something to be said about that initial conversation and saying, yeah, no thanks. Right. And then, but hearing them say, yeah, we, we know and that's why we called. Right. They are willing to admit that they're not where they should be and that something needs to change. Like they, they hit a real low point when you said like their reviews were bad. You know, I'm thinking, you know, it's like threes or high twos or something and like one point, anything. Yikes. Like that's your average across. You know, I was like, how bad could it be? Like, oh yeah, it can get pretty bad.
- [35:38]
Dwayne DJ Sprague
Well, if you look at Nike, if you look@nike.com they have like a 1.5. And the reason that is is because unfortunately, if you're not proactive about soliciting reviews from every customer, then who's going to leave reviews? Just the ones that are upset, oh, my shipment arrived late, it was the wrong product, it never arrived at all, it was the wrong size, whatever. Only those people will leave reviews on their own volition. However, if you proactively ask every single customer for a review, good, bad or indifferent, statistically 97% of those people are going to be very happy. That's why you're in business. The reality is if you truly had a one or two star business, you wouldn't be in business. But unfortunately that's the perception because most companies don't know how to properly solicit and collect and syndicate and display reviews across the web. So what happens is the market just kind of takes over the brand reputation. It's only the people that are really upset that end up leaving review because they have a bone to pick. They're motivated because they're mad. But if you're happy, do you go out of your way to leave a review? No.
- [37:00]
Melina Palmer
If we're delighted, maybe. If we are merely satisfied, probably not. Right. And that's the, but those like you say, those threes high threes and fours of like, yeah, it was good, right? Like, don't often feel the need to go like, you know what I'm going to use for the next five minutes of my life is, or 10 or whatever, I'm going to go say that these people were pretty darn average.
- [37:26]
Dwayne DJ Sprague
Yeah, yeah, I'm really excited that they were really average. But that's right. But if you actually make it easy to leave a review from every customer, the majority of your customers are very happy and the majority of your customers are going to leave a four, four and a half, maybe five star review. So that's the magic sauce is you've got to have a process in the system to easily collect reviews from every customer and then have a system to syndicate those reviews to the search engines like Google and Bing. Display them on your website, display them on third party sites. Like with Shop Approved, we have our own third party review certificate, we call it. So they show up in Shopper Approved, they show up on your website, they show up in Google Shopping, they show up in your Google Ads, they show up in Bing, they show up in your organic search results, they show up on Trustpilot, Better Business Bureau, Site Jabber, etc. So you've got lots of positive reviews across the web. That is true reputation management. And that's what we call, you know, pre suasion. Because now when you're doing your Google search and you see not only top search results in the top five positions, but you also see review stars in those top five positions or at least on the page one, then you think, okay, this is a reputable company, this is a legitimate company. Because we're always concerned in the back of our mind we're thinking, is this company legit? Is this product legit? And if you can answer that in the search results without ever going to the website, you are Pre sued, as Dr. Cialdini calls it. Right.
- [39:05]
Melina Palmer
Good shout out. Bob Cialdini, friend of both of our shows and work and stuff. Love him. Good, good stuff.
- [39:12]
Dwayne DJ Sprague
Yeah, great, great man.
- [39:15]
Melina Palmer
For sure. With this, I really want to talk a little bit about. I was tempted to ask the question about like you had said, you know, how people don't know how to ask for these sorts of things of which you know, one of them is you just, you have to do it. It's not super fun maybe, but if you put a process around it, make it easy for people to leave reviews. I think you've answered that question a bit. And there may be some thoughtfulness to some specific language or something in the asks that if you wanted to touch on, you can. And I know there's, there's a whole book, right. Of some tips they can be getting for that of which toward the end of Reputation King, you were talking about this idea of being a, like the WebMD of your space. Right. And so being able to have these Q and A's and not just like FAQs or whatever on, you know, buried in a product page somewhere. But if you're really thoughtful about Q&As and how they're going to come up in Google, and especially now that Google is very specifically, strategically pulling its content for these like quick answers it wants to spit out. Right. And so trying to get there. I thought that was really smart. Of course. Right. But I would love if you can expand a little bit on. So how do I do that? If it's not just in a product page, where should it be? Do I need to do blogs or articles about those sorts of things? Like how can I be thoughtful to being that something that's going to be snagged by Google in that very primo spot if I'm smart about it?
- [40:54]
Dwayne DJ Sprague
Yes, great question. And strategic so yeah, we have another tool which is called Q and A. And the Q and A tool is search optimized. So each question is the H1 or title and then each answer is the H2 or the answer. And the featured snippets are those what they call position zero, which goes above position one in the organic search results. Now, Google doesn't always show a featured snippet, but if they do, it's above position one or what a lot of SEOs like to call position zero. That is the premium spot because it's the very first organic search result in most situations. And Google has a very specific kind of format they're looking for. They're looking for a question to be that H1 and then they're looking for a 40 to 60 word answer to fill out that H2 to provide a self contained question and answer. So it has to be structured accordingly. Now it also should ideally have the Q and A schema markup because Google looks for schema markup that says this content is already marked up and prepackaged for you Google to display in a certain way. So for example, your review stars, when those show up in your Google Ads or your organic search results or your Google shopping, those are review schema, it's called review schema. If you don't have your reviews properly marked up with a review schema, they're not going to show up. Same with Q and A. So our Q and A tool automatically uses the proper schema markup to optimize that question and answer for that featured snippet. If it doesn't show up in the featured snippet, it can show up in position 1, 2, 3, et cetera. And the way we've got it designed and structured is such that each question answer is a self contained page, if you will. So it's very easy and quick for Google to crawl and index that content. It's not buried in a 3,000 word blog where Google's got to scan and index an entire blog to find the question and answer. Basically what you've done is handed it to Google on a silver platter. You made it very easy because Google has a crawl index for websites. They'll only crawl so many pages, they'll only spend so many resources and time on any given website. So if you're burying your content in your blog and it's a 3,000, 4,000, 5,000 word blog and you've got some great questions and answers in there, but it's hard for Google to find because they've got to index that whole thing, to find it, you've just created an impediment, you've created friction for Google. But if you actually put that in a very concise dedicated page with a proper schema markup, it's super easy. And let's face it, everybody wants what's easy. Google does too, because they only have so many resources, they have only so much call index available for any one website. So it's all about just making it easy. Now your FAQ is not typically done with schema markup. It's just, you know, frequently asked questions and answers. But it's not organized, it's not structured. So that doesn't typically show up in the search results, if ever. But the way our Q and A works is it's designed for that SEO. Now the other trick is you can have multiple answers in the same question. So if Google didn't like answer one, it can choose question two. And I've seen it where Google will serve up both. So you can get two bytes at the Apple. And we also have a little trick to optimize your blog and even your product pages to have a question and answer based content. So sometimes Google will grab that Q and A, put that in the featured snippet, grab a similar question and answer from the product page and a similar question and answer from the blog and serve up all three on page one. So now you've got three bytes of the Apple and that creates total authority and what we call page domination. Because now you've got three bytes of the Apple. Plus, of course, depending on the search query, you may also have one, two or three review search results as well, and particularly on product searches. So it really does create that page domination, that authority, and that social proof that drives a lot of traffic and conversions. So just having FAQ is not enough because I can drive traffic. Just having a blog is not enough because typically that blog is not structured for Q and A because you're not writing it properly. And when you do it right and have the, you know, the Q and A search optimized and you tweak your blog accordingly and product pages accordingly, then you can have really successful dominant SEO around product related questions and brand related questions. See, that's the other thing is a lot of people don't think about brand related questions like what is your return policy? What is your, you know, average shipping time? Or who owns abc.com or how long has abc.com done in business? Well, that could all be search optimized in your Q and A. Why Leave it to chance. Why leave anything to chance? Why not give Google exactly what they're looking for? Give the consumer exactly what they're looking for. And this, by the way, ties in the Google helpful content updates. Right? Google just wants to serve up the content that's helpful to the consumer and answer the questions consumers have. And consumers have questions around the brand or their website. They also have questions around the products. Well, if you can answer those questions in a search optimized way, you're going to win the game. And we also have AI built in so it'll recommend the right questions and answers based on what people are already asking on the web so you don't have to guess at it.
- [47:03]
Melina Palmer
Oh well, love it. And I'm sure everyone is now so excited to get those pages updated and probably looking for some help with that. So for everyone who is so excited to connect with you, learn more, get books, we'll have links in the show notes. But you know, what's their best way to get in contact with you?
- [47:23]
Dwayne DJ Sprague
You can go to shop approved.com you can go to reputationking.com and you get a complimentary digital and audio version of Reputation King. No cost whatsoever. You can also buy it on reputationking.com it's really just shipping and handling for $20. You get the hardback book, you get the strategy guide and all kinds of other great little surprises in there for $20 shipping and handling. And it's a very nice, It's a legitimate book. 91 color illustrations, 49 expert citations, 290 pages. We took about a year to write that. It's not written by AI. It's a lot of primary and secondary research, over a decade of experience in the reputation management industry. And it's really a how to strategy guide to collect seller or store reviews as Google now calls them, product reviews, Q and A and how to manage your reputation online.
- [48:27]
Melina Palmer
Perfect. Well, we will of course have those links in the show notes and LinkedIn and whatnot. So thank you again DJ for joining me on the show. It was delightful to chat with you today.
- [48:37]
Dwayne DJ Sprague
Thank you, Melina. It was a pleasure. Really enjoyed being in the show.
- [48:42]
Melina Palmer
Thank you again to DJ Sprague for joining me on the show today. What got your brain buzzing in today's conversation? For me, I'm absolutely fascinated by DJs career and how he grew that limousine business intuitively at such a young age. There were so many smart and thoughtful things he did in that process that we know over time he's learned in a more academic and scientific way as to why it worked. But it's so cool to see how the thoughtfulness to why people use limos and how it's more than the utility and price. If you just want to get from A to B, you wouldn't care about a limo. You know, you book limos to feel special, to feel seen, to have an experience and people splurge at these times. Feeling like you are the most important person on that occasion is key and people aren't just willing to pay it, they're delighted to pay for that extra five star service. Also so smart on the naming, right? Sometimes the literal names are the best as you consider your own business. Do you have a central touchstone like that? Something like we are a five star experience. So we clean the cars and reset whenever we stop, don't use plastic cups, provide flowers for our guests, roll out a red carpet, take a photo that we give them at the end of the night, make them feel important, include surprise and delight, consider the peak end rule and ensure we end on a fantastic note. What does that look like for your business? Whether your company is one of quality or value, you should know what you are about and it should be easily repeated by everyone on your team and by your customers. If you don't know what you stand for clearly and concisely, how can they? You can't be living that true omnichannel experience when you don't have a clear touchstone. You are inherently making it harder for people to buy from you and refer you to others when you are in that gray space. So this is your invitation to get a little more clear on that right now. If people only remembered one thing about your business and it had to shine through in everything you do, what would it be? Come share it with DJ and I on social media. We can't wait to hear about it. There are links to find us easily in the show notes along with links to my top related past episodes and books including Reputation King and more. It's all waiting for you in the app you're listening to and@thebrainybusiness.com 453. And thank you again to DJ Sprague for joining me on the show today. It was a delight to chat with and learn from you. Join me Tuesday for another brainy episode of the Brainy Business Podcast. It's going to be a lot of fun. You don't want to miss it. Until then, thanks again for listening and learning with me and remember to be thoughtful.
- [51:38]
Thank you for listening to the Brainy Business Podcast Molina offers virtual strategy sessions, workshops and other services to help businesses be more brain friendly. For more free resources, visit thebrainybusiness.com.