The Brainy Business | Understanding the Psychology of Why People Buy | Behavioral Economics

Episode 520: Designing for Behavior Change Release Date: August 5, 2025 Host: Melina Palmer Guest: Dr. Amy Bucher, Vice President of Behavioral Design at Lirio

Introduction

In Episode 520 of The Brainy Business Podcast, host Melina Palmer delves into the intricacies of designing for behavior change with Dr. Amy Bucher, a seasoned behavioral design expert. This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of how behavioral science and design thinking collaborate to create effective, brain-friendly business solutions.

Guest Introduction

Melina Palmer [00:33]:
"Today's conversation dives into how behavioral science and design thinking can work together to build solutions that truly matter and avoid wasteful, ineffective noise."

Dr. Amy Bucher, author of Engaged: Designing for Behavior Change, brings over 15 years of experience in behavioral design, having worked across various sectors including healthcare, wellness, and consumer products. Her journey from academia to corporate roles, notably at Johnson & Johnson, underscores her expertise in applying behavioral science to real-world problems.

Dr. Amy Bucher's Background

Dr. Amy Bucher [03:03]:
"I wasn't totally sure what to do with my qualifications. The path that was laid out in front of me was really, if you're getting a PhD, you're going to become an academic... I realized really early that that was not the path I wanted to take."

Dr. Bucher's transition from academic aspirations to practical behavioral design roles highlights the versatility of a psychology PhD. Her early interest in solving real-life problems, inspired by her fascination with murder mysteries and forensics, led her to behavioral design—a field that perfectly marries scientific rigor with creative problem-solving.

Understanding Behavioral Design

Diane Osgood [09:01]:
"When you talk about design, I know people then probably say, well, is this just like design thinking? Is it graphic design?"

Dr. Bucher clarifies that behavioral design is fundamentally about applying the scientific method to the design process, aligning closely with human-centered design. This approach emphasizes understanding the user's experience to influence behavior effectively.

Dr. Amy Bucher [10:23]:
"The behavioral design process is very front loaded. So there's a lot of... a measure twice, cut once type of discipline."

This meticulous, research-driven approach ensures that solutions are grounded in a deep understanding of the problem space, avoiding ineffective or superficial fixes.

Case Study: J&J Diabetes Management in India

Dr. Amy Bucher [11:17]:
"We couldn't just rely on data about Internet access on kind of a city level. The patients we were seeing in the clinics... mostly did not have Internet access."

One of Dr. Bucher's notable projects involved developing a behavioral intervention for diabetes management in tier 2 cities in India. Initial assumptions about internet accessibility led to a pivot towards a more suitable intervention modality—utilizing SMS text messages for tracking blood sugar levels instead of a browser-based platform. This case exemplifies the critical importance of contextual research in behavioral design.

Importance of Upfront Research

Diane Osgood [10:48]:
"Everyone please spend more time thinking about the problem you're trying to solve."

Both hosts emphasize the necessity of dedicating ample time to understand the problem deeply before jumping to solutions. Dr. Bucher's experiences reinforce that surface-level solutions often miss underlying issues, leading to ineffective interventions.

Dr. Amy Bucher [16:45]:
"It's really critical that I have respect for the people that I'm designing for... cultural beliefs weren't ones that resonated with me... but they were very real and they were quite common."

Respecting and understanding the target audience's cultural and socioeconomic contexts ensures that interventions are not only effective but also culturally sensitive and respectful.

Tools and Frameworks for Behavioral Design

Dr. Amy Bucher [27:19]:
"If you've gotten to the stage where you feel like you have a sense of what behavioral design is and you want to actually test it out, here are some tools..."

Dr. Bucher introduces several practical tools and frameworks essential for behavioral design:

1. Literature Review:
   "It's such a critical step... understand the science that has come before."
   Building on existing research prevents redundancy and leverages proven interventions.

2. Outcomes Logic Map:
   "Identifying the outcomes you hope to achieve with your project, the behaviors that you're trying to influence..."
   This map helps in systematically linking desired outcomes to specific behaviors and identifying barriers.

3. Lens Brainstorm:
   Applying behavioral lenses, such as the COM-B model (Capability, Opportunity, Motivation) and Self-Determination Theory (Autonomy, Competence, Relatedness), to generate ideas that align with behavioral change theories.

Diane Osgood [39:25]:
"Is there a standard type of format for one that you really like or that people, where people are going to, if they wanted to go look that up and start that process?"

Dr. Bucher points listeners to resources like her book and online platforms (e.g., Rosenfeld Media) for templates and examples of these tools, facilitating their practical application.

Practical Example: Health Plan Behavioral Health Project

Dr. Amy Bucher [28:13]:
"We interviewed... patients and caregivers... trying to understand what can we give this team where they can go out and build either a new offering or something into their existing offerings..."

In a recent project with a health plan client, Dr. Bucher applied the behavioral design process to enhance behavioral health services. This involved:

• Stakeholder Interviews: Engaging with internal teams to anticipate touchpoints and build internal support.
• Primary Research: Conducting interviews with patients and caregivers to gather firsthand insights.
• Identifying Insights: Extracting themes and understanding the motivations and barriers influencing behavior.
• Solution Development: Utilizing frameworks like the COM-B model to design interventions aligned with identified needs.

Dr. Amy Bucher [33:36]:
"There's certain types of behaviors that are compatible with certain types of interventions... loss aversion might be in the toolkit."

Through this project, Dr. Bucher demonstrated how behavioral insights can lead to tailored solutions, such as redesigning CRM systems to feel more personal and less impersonal to users.

Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Melina Palmer [36:53]:
"Behavior change often doesn't start with the clever idea or flashy campaign. It starts with deep understanding."

The episode reinforces that effective behavior change initiatives are rooted in thorough research and empathy. Skipping the foundational understanding often results in solutions that miss the mark, wasting resources and eroding trust.

Resources and Further Reading

• Book: Engaged: Designing for Behavior Change by Dr. Amy Bucher
  Available through Rosenfeld Media (rosenfeldmedia.com)

• Website:

  • Dr. Amy Bucher: AmyBucherPhD.com
  • Publisher: Rosenfeld Media

• Podcast Links: Available in the show notes at thebrainybusiness.com/520

Upcoming Episode Preview

Melina Palmer concludes by teasing the next episode featuring Diane Osgood, focusing on sustainable shopping, ethical business practices, and intentional consumerism. This continuation builds on the themes of empathy and data-informed design discussed in Episode 520.

Notable Quotes:

• Melina Palmer [00:33]:
  "Today's conversation dives into how behavioral science and design thinking can work together to build solutions that truly matter and avoid wasteful, ineffective noise."

• Dr. Amy Bucher [02:34]:
  "I've really been looking forward to talking to you."

• Dr. Amy Bucher [10:23]:
  "The behavioral design process is very front loaded. So there's a lot of... a measure twice, cut once type of discipline."

• Diane Osgood [10:48]:
  "Everyone please spend more time thinking about the problem you're trying to solve."

• Dr. Amy Bucher [27:19]:
  "If you've gotten to the stage where you feel like you have a sense of what behavioral design is and you want to actually test it out, here are some tools..."

• Melina Palmer [36:53]:
  "Behavior change often doesn't start with the clever idea or flashy campaign. It starts with deep understanding."

This episode serves as an essential guide for professionals looking to incorporate behavioral economics into their business strategies, emphasizing the importance of empathy, research, and systematic design processes to drive meaningful behavior change.