The Brainy Business Podcast | Ep. 551

The Power Trap: Understanding How Leadership Shapes Our Minds

Host: Melina Palmer
Guest: Nick Kinley (psychologist, leadership expert, author of “The Power Trap”)
Date: November 20, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Melina Palmer interviews Nick Kinley about his new book, The Power Trap, exploring how leadership and power fundamentally change the human mind—often in ways organizations don’t anticipate. The discussion unpacks the psychological effects leadership roles have on individuals, why otherwise competent people in power stumble, and how both individuals and organizations can proactively guard against the downsides of power while keeping its benefits.

Central Question:
Which of the six common effects of power do you see most in your world, and which one might be quietly shaping your own decisions?

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nick Kinley’s Unique Background and Fascination with Power

• [03:57] Kinley shares his career path from sales and marketing to forensic psychotherapy in prisons, then into corporate consulting and leadership assessment globally.
• Authored nine books around leadership and behavior, focusing on the dynamic between individuals and their environments.
• Interest in power emerged from noticing how often leaders are “caught out” and how even good leaders fall prey to bad decisions:

  “How are there any good leaders at all? Because it’s utterly frightening.” – Nick Kinley [14:16]

2. The Myth: “Power Corrupts”

• [15:29] Kinley forcefully disputes the cliché “power corrupts”, emphasizing:
  • Power does not automatically corrupt people; individuals are accountable for their behavior.
  • Blaming power alone excuses bad behavior and underestimates those who resist temptation.

  “Power does not corrupt people … Power may open the door by making certain behavior more likely, but it is we who walk through.” – Nick Kinley [16:13]

• Power exists at all levels, not just with the “rich and famous”—any person with influence, even within families or clubs, can experience its effects.

3. What Happens to People with Power?

The Six Effects of Power

[19:55–41:55]
Kinley details six ways power can change us, providing symptoms to look for in leaders:

1. Activation & Enablement

   • Power increases impulsiveness, assertiveness, optimism, decisiveness, and risk-taking.
   • Example: Players “wired up” in Monopoly games act more impulsively when made to feel powerful.

     “If you meet someone who’s impulsive, assertive, decisive, optimistic ... power’s only going to make them more likely to do that.” – Nick Kinley [21:00]

2. Cognitive Narrowing

   • Power sharpens focus on goals but makes thinking more black-and-white, stereotype-prone, and vulnerable to biases (notably confirmation bias).
   • Leaders become more likely to overlook dissent or alternative views.

3. Social Distance

   • Leaders become less able to empathize with subordinates and less accurately perceive their team’s perspectives.
   • Power suppresses information flow—people stop telling leaders the truth.
   • Difficult question for leaders: “What do your people find hardest to say to you?” [25:41]

   “The millisecond that you get promoted, it will reduce your ability to empathize with your people. And yet study after study shows that.” – Nick Kinley [25:41]

4. Ego Inflation

   • Power boosts confidence and risk of overconfidence or narcissism.
   • A little narcissism helps leadership, but too much becomes destructive.

   “If you meet someone who’s already got a bit of ego, it isn’t going to end happily.” – Nick Kinley [36:54]

5. Amplification of Internal States

   • Power makes people behave more authentically (for better and for worse), become more self-driven and sometimes, more selfish.
   • Whatever is inside (good or bad) is intensified.

6. Threat Sensitization

   • Leaders become highly sensitive to losing power, which can drive defensive or corrupt behavior.
   • Sometimes it’s not power itself that’s corrupting, but the fear of its loss.

   “Power doesn’t corrupt. It is the fear of losing power that corrupts.” – Nick Kinley [39:33]

4. Practical Advice for Leaders

Making Space for Dissent and Truth-Telling

• The hardest thing for subordinates is to disagree with leaders.
• Defeating ingratiation:
  • Public praise of the leader by the team can be poisonous; leaders should deflect and reorient to improvement (“Thank you, but what can we do better?”).
• “Percent certainty” language: Expressing uncertainty (“I’m 80% sure this is the best path, let’s discuss the 20%”) invites dissent and signals openness.

  “If leaders can show that they’re not always … avoid absolutist thinking, that makes it easier for people to speak up.” – Nick Kinley [32:41]

• Build a culture of “voice”: Routinely ask, “What do you think?” and respond constructively, not critically.
• Demonstrate vulnerability and uncertainty to boost trust and encourage honest feedback.

Making Power Less Damaging

• Organizations rarely train people for the psychological downsides of power.
• Leaders and companies need to bring discussions about power into the open and proactively design checks/balances and cultures that invite challenge and feedback.

• “Power is damaging, is negative because it happens in the dark.” – Nick Kinley [45:30]

Memorable Quotes

• On Power’s Universality:
  “Power is me over my son in a way. … Anyone who holds any influence of any sort, right? … Even the slightest bit of power can have an effect on you.” – Nick Kinley [17:27]

• On Leadership Selection:
  “The assumption is that the person that they see is what you see is what you get. And you kind of forget that actually, that person is going to change. … Leadership changes people.” – Nick Kinley [09:21]

• On the Need for Openness:
  “Of all the techniques that we suggest, using uncertainty in a way to make it easier for people to speak up is the one we’ve received the most feedback on.” – Nick Kinley [35:29]

• On Self-Awareness:
  “If they’re not humble to start, they’re probably not going to get more humble as a result of their new power.” – Melina Palmer [42:12]

Highlighted Timestamps

• 03:57 — Kinley’s professional journey
• 14:16 — “Utterly frightening” research on power
• 15:29 — Refuting “power corrupts”
• 19:55–25:41 — The first three effects of power
• 27:35–36:16 — Practical methods to build openness and counteract ingratiation
• 36:40 — Last three effects of power explained
• 41:55 — Summary on leadership attributes and amplification
• 43:51 — The taboo around openly discussing power
• 45:30 — Why power’s effects can be so harmful
• 41:55, 46:07 — Where to find Nick Kinley’s work

Actionable Takeaways

• Leaders should proactively invite disagreement and feedback; use “percent certainty” language to create psychological safety.
• Organizations must discuss power openly and train leaders on its psychological impacts—not just its privileges.
• Selection for leadership should consider how power will amplify both strengths and weaknesses, not just current behaviors.
• Pay attention to ingratiation and shut down public praise of leaders to prevent echo chambers.

Concluding Reflection

Melina closes by inviting listeners to try percent certainty phrasing in their leadership communications this week, to actively plan for moments where disagreement is encouraged, and to reflect on how power may be affecting their own thinking and relationships.

“Where specifically will you make it safer for someone to tell you you’re wrong this week? Name the meeting, name the moment, and plan the prompt.” – Melina Palmer [47:57]

Resources:

• Nick Kinley: LinkedIn, nickkinley.com, and major booksellers
• Melina Palmer: The Brainy Business (all links in show notes and at brainybusiness.com/551)