← The Brainy Business | Understanding the Psychology of Why People Buy | Behavioral Economics
The Brainy Business | Understanding the Psychology of Why People Buy | Behavioral Economics
558: Heartfelt Leadership with Claude Silver
00:51:10
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- [00:00]
Melina Palmer
Welcome to episode 558 of the Brainy Business Understanding the Psychology of why People Buy. In today's episode, I'm excited to introduce you to Claude Silver, author of Be Yourself at Work. Ready? Let's get started.
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Podcast Announcer
You are listening to the Brainy Business podcast where we dig into the psychology of why people buy and help you incorporate behavioral economics into your business, making it more brain friendly. Now, here's your host, Melina Palmer.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Hello. Hello everyone.
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Melina Palmer
My name is Melina Palmer and I want to welcome you to the Brainy Business Podcast. As we kick off a brand new year, there's no shortage of messages about becoming your best self. But what if growth isn't about becoming someone new at all? What if it's about coming home to who you already are? That's the heart of today's conversation with Claude Silver, the Chief heart officer at VaynerX, the global company founded by Gary Vaynerchuk, whom you have potentially heard referred to as Gary V. Because it's a.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Lot easier to say.
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Melina Palmer
Claude is, to her knowledge, the first person in the world to hold that Chief Heart Officer title. And for more than a decade, she has helped thousands of people find confidence, clarity and connection in the workplace. Her work proves that when people feel safe to bring their whole selves to work, they. They unlock their creativity, loyalty and potential in ways no policy ever could. Her new book, Be Yourself at Work, is a guide to doing exactly that. Releasing the old stories that keep us small and building workplaces where empathy and courage are part of the everyday rhythm to positive and amazing results, both for the individuals and for the business as a whole. And so when I came across this.
- [01:53]
Co-host or Interviewer
Book, I knew it felt like just the best way to kick off the.
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Melina Palmer
New year, don't you think? As you listen, I encourage you to reflect on this question. What story or song has been playing in your head about who you should be at work and what might change if you rewrote it this year really quickly? Before we get into the conversation, I want to be sure you know there are links in the show, notes for my top related past episodes and books, ways to get in touch, and more. It's all within the app you're listening to and@the brainybusiness.com 5.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Now let's jump right in.
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Melina Palmer
Claude Silver, welcome to the Brainy Business Podcast.
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Claude Silver
Great to be here, Melina. Thanks for having me.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Absolutely.
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Melina Palmer
I'm super excited to be able to.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Chat with you here today about you, yourself, the work you do, all of that.
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Melina Palmer
Before we jump into the Book, of course.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Can you just share a little bit about yourself and the work that you.
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Melina Palmer
Do for the people who don't yet know you?
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Claude Silver
Yes, for sure. My name is Claude Silver. I am the Chief heart officer at VaynerX, which is a company founded by our CEO, Gary Vaynerchuk. Many people might know him on social as Gary V. I've been there 11 and a half years, and I didn't start as a Chief Heart Officer. I was a strategist for a very long time, but always had that heart to help and really want to leave people better than I found them and everything like that. So I can get into the story of how we got to Chief Heart Officer at some point, but Gary and I came up with this title, which is the greatest title in rock and roll. But it's the work that really speaks to me in terms of really, I would say. I would say being the emotional barometer for the agency, and Gary would probably say I set the emotional framework. Whichever way you want to say it. I'm with people all day, in and out, holding space for them and really helping them, doing my best to help them find solutions to kind of break on through their imposter syndrome, whatever's holding them back so they can thrive, be extremely successful and actually be happy at work.
- [04:06]
Co-host or Interviewer
I love it. And of course, you know, that's like, first thing I have on the list of, like, love this title. Right. I feel like I don't know that I've seen many, if any others that have Chief Heart Officer as a title or even just in an organization. So would love to hear the story of kind of how that came to be.
- [04:25]
Claude Silver
Yes, yes, I will say I believe I'm the first. There are more now I'm seeing pop up. As a matter of fact, I just read an article came out of Dubai this morning on funny job titles, and mine was listed in there among Chief Mischief, Mischief Officer and Chief Awesome Officer. So whatever. Que sera sera, whatever. So When I joined VaynerMedia, which was May of 2014, I was probably one of the three oldest people there, meaning I had a lot of work experience under my belt, a lot of agency experience under my belt. The average age was 23 when I joined, and we were about 200 people, and I was almost double that age. So what I started doing, not only running the large account that I had, but I started really just being that unofficial mentor. I was the person that taught people how to interview. I interviewed. I was the person that, you know, chatted with people when they Were having challenges just with their manager. Just had a lot of unofficial jobs, which I enjoyed. I didn't, you know, terminations. I went to a lot of different offices and checked it out and just got the feel. And so when I told Gary, a year into me doing my work as an account strategist, I said to him, you know what? I love this place. You're the best. This is great. But I don't want to do advertising. It just doesn't matter to me anymore if this is cursive or if this is blue or pink. It just doesn't matter. He said, well, what do you want to do? And I said, I only care about the people here. I care about the heartbeat. Heartbeat. He said, I need you to do this job for 18 more months. And he doesn't remember me saying, I'll give you six. But I did give him six months. I found my backfill, and I actually resigned because there was no job. There was no job. There was someone already in hr. I never wanted to do hr. And so it was time to go. And about three months later, we sat down for breakfast, and he just said, that's it. You're coming back. You're chief heart officer. And I knew what that meant, not only because I did say, I really want to be at the heartbeat of this place, but what that means to me is that I lead with heart, I lead with empathy, I lead with trust. First, those types of things. And so in that breakfast, I said three things. You know I don't want to do hr, right? And he said, yep, but you're going to learn hr, and you're going to hire a great team around you. So 10 years later, we're rock solid. And I do know HR, which is awesome. I said, what are we doing here? You know, you always want to know the vision. And he said, we are building the single greatest human organization in the history of time. Okay, well, sign me up to that. Sure. Sounds great and aspirational. And then, of course, I said, how do we know if I'm successful? And he said the following, which is still my job description. You will touch every single employee and infuse the agency with empathy. So at that point, we were probably 350. Now we're 2,000 across the globe. And so how do you do that? How do you scale the unscalable? What is empathy? How do you turn that on in a person? How do you light someone up? How do I make sure I'm entering into every conversation like that? And that is what the Job is.
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Melina Palmer
Yeah. Amazing.
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Co-host or Interviewer
I mean, like, as with. I'm sure there are so many people listening that are feeling inspired. Right. But for all sorts of reasons, but a piece of it being, like, knowing what it is that you want, what you don't want, and being willing to even step away from something that's a, you know, great organization and great team when it's not the right fit for you, and then having a strong enough relationship with that person for them to want to make, you know, this job for you and.
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Melina Palmer
Right.
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Co-host or Interviewer
And finding that that fit. So amazing. And, you know, for both you and. Coming from Gary, I mean, how amazing that he wanted to even, like, invest in making that happen and making it such a great place to work.
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Claude Silver
Yeah. I'm very, very lucky that when we first met, it was just like, opposite sides of a coin. It was just seeing my brother, and in fact, I hung out with him sometime before Christmas, and we just had such a great conversation. And I said to him, you are like my brother. Like, how do you know me so well? And he said, I just do. And it's. It's. It's a great relationship. And what I will say is, Gary is the first boss who said to me, and I explained it in the book, you don't trust me, and this isn't going to work unless you trust me all in. And I had to really look at myself and what was holding me back from that. And the minute I was able to go all in freely, things just opened up. I mean, I was probably 98% there, but that 2% was still lingering, you know, residue from old bosses, I would say. And as soon as I could let that go, I would say things really. It just. Everything took shape.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah. Right. Well, knowing that that story is, like, maybe halfway through the book, but I feel like even just sharing a little bit where someone's saying, like, what does it mean to not trust them? And, like, what was going on? What's the scenario? Can you share a little bit about that story of kind of what happened there and, you know, kind of what clicked for you in that process?
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Claude Silver
Yeah. So I think a lot of us want to please our bosses. I think a lot of us want to. Yes. Our bosses. Yes, I got that. Yes. I'll take care of that. Yeah, totally. I agree. And that was the piece that was holding me back, was that I was still in people please mode. I was still in almost. Almost. I don't want to say robotic, but I understand how to be empathetic and how to scale that. I do it's, it's in my blood, it's in my bones, so that I could do. But it was then coming together with him, which was, you know, I had some hesitation. Do I give him only good news? Do I give him bad news? Do I tell him when the sky is falling? Do I tell him the sky is falling and this is what I'm doing to fix it? I just didn't know because I just didn't know how far I could go. And that held me back, I will say, from actually being my real self at work, which is to say, yeah, listen, I do believe this glass is half full, but I can see that it might become empty real soon. And this is what I'm going to do about it. This is what I'm going to do about it. Part that I had to get very comfortable with my voice in saying that and being ready for him to say, cool, I doubt it, probably going to go this way, but try it your way, right? I had to be okay with whatever he was going to say and know that it was only coming from a good place. It was coming from a place of, we want to make this place the single greatest human organization in the history of time. So what are we going to do there? And the more I was able to just trust him, really just trust him, it was like, oh, I felt freer to say, hey, I think this is a problem. This is what I'm doing. Hey, I need your advice here. I don't know what to do. And that really helped me because it was like, oh, I'm asking him for his advice. It's not because I'm terrible. It's not because I'm weak. It's not because I'm not smart. It's because I actually need the CEO's advice here and I want it. And I think that's what kind of like made the soup really, really taste right? Was like, okay. And so he would add in his pieces and I would add in my pieces, and sure enough, like, it started to gel. That doesn't mean that it's always gelling, it's relationship. We have to always work at it. But trusting my boss was the greatest thing I could do. Because I've been at this job 11 and a half years. I don't have any questions or doubt about him. I don't have a doubt about where we're going, where we're headed and why. Like other jobs where I was there for two years, two and a half years, 18 months, because I was like, I know where you want to go, but this is a Titanic. Does everyone see this is a Titanic?
- [13:27]
Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah, there's a bit of. Yeah, I totally. I think there are many people listening that know they have been on in a team or at a company where.
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Melina Palmer
It'S like, you're saying some right things.
- [13:37]
Co-host or Interviewer
And like, but what about the iceberg? Right? Like, it's right here. What are we doing? So I like that comparison point. We get that for sure. Well, as you were talking about and sharing that story, it makes me think a lot about. So in behavioral science we talk about vulnerability loops and how they help to build trust. And the thing about that is someone has to be willing to like open the loop, right. And you have to feel vulnerable. It has to be a little bit like, oh, that feeling we try to avoid all the time. But when you're willing to do that, the other person will typically, like, if it's the right fit, right. They'll open up, you know, the other side of the loop and it continues and it builds really great trust. And so I think in both sides, like, what insight do you have for. So there's actually, you know, Gary being willing to say, hey, you don't trust me and we need that. Right. That, that is a thing. Like, he didn't have to say that. He could have just been feeling that. There are plenty of managers who've known that someone's not trusting them and maybe they resist and are going to become a little bit more aggressive. They stand off, whatever and like, well, they better figure it out. Like, how are they going to figure it out if you don't tell them the problem? Right, but and then also for you to kind of like accept that and then be willing to receive and change in that. So what advice do you have for people both on like opening up that kind of vulnerability loop like Gary did, like you did on your side of that and like, if their boss isn't Gary Vee, you know, what sort of advice do you have there?
- [15:13]
Claude Silver
Yeah, that is, you know, if their boss isn't Gary Vee is a big point. I do work for someone who believes in humans and they're vocal about that. So I'm very fortunate there. However, knowing that I was always me at my other jobs and never had a Gary Vee, I definitely knew that I had to get very strong internally and very self aware of kind of how I ticked, what upset me, all of those things so that I could be, I could, I felt like I could speak more freely to my managers. Now before I was at VAYNER I was in London, very different culture which I had to get used to. So you actually don't share a lot which was very, very interesting coming from San Francisco for 18 years which you know, hello London for four and then I've been in New York. So what I will say is either this all starts, starts at self awareness for you, the individual. And if you feel like you, there's something holding you back from being your best, whatever your best is, that's up to you. Then I do think you owe it to yourself to find a way to put a toe in the water and then another toe in the water to let your manager or someone at your, at your place of work know that X makes me feel uncomfortable or I really want to tell you that my family member is in the hospital and I'm just not quite there today. You have to be able to, you have to be willing to get vulnerable, courageous in order to open up that door. Now if you happen to have a boss who is showing you their dogs and what they did on the weekend and being free, open and free three about I have three kids and all of this stuff like wow, okay, you hit the jackpot there because there's an opening of someone who is your boss letting you know about their life if they have a life outside of this job, that right there is an incredible opening for you to start to comfortably share bits and pieces of yourself. The reason I say bits and pieces is you don't want an avalanche. There's no reason you have to all of a sudden like, well this is who I am. I dress up as a clown every single day, but here I wear a collared shirt like you don't need to do that. You can just say yes, I happen to like playing a clown on the weekend. You know, share, just share certain things. I mean a funny metaphor but we are so afraid to take off our masks and take off our armor in the workplace because many, many workplaces are not set up to allow you to be who you are. They want you to fit inside a box. Don't go outside, don't color outside that line because we don't know what to do with you. Right? However, times are changing. Gen Z, Gen Alpha. They will be our bosses very soon and they are demanding another way of working and they are vulnerable. They are courageous. They tell you right there, I have ADHD, I need to go to my therapist at 3:30. Okay, well as a Gen Xer I prayed that I could get a therapy appointment on a Saturday because there was no Way I was leaving work and there was no way I was telling you that I was even going to a therapist, much less a dentist. So times have changed and I really am, I'm very, I feel, I. I just feel a whole lot of promise about these next two generations that are coming into the workforce or in the workforce that they're just going to say, like, yeah, that doesn't work for me. If you want to retain me, these are the things I'm going to need from you. And so there has to be some kind of commitment on both sides.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah, it's a, it's fascinating. Just as you were talking, I was.
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Melina Palmer
Realizing, and I'm sure you know, but.
- [19:19]
Co-host or Interviewer
Like working at Vayner, you must have like, you say the average age was 23 when you start. So it's still that like, like the, the newest of the ambitious young people are like dreaming to come work with you.
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Claude Silver
Yeah.
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Co-host or Interviewer
So you get to kind of see that, like, what's coming before the rest of us get to like, know what's on the horizon in some way.
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Claude Silver
Yes. I mean, you know, the. One of Gary's gifts, which I think he has taught many of us, put it this way, I think he's taught all of us, and I think there are people that get it and people are getting it, is to always focus on where people put their attention. That makes him an incredible marketer. Right. People put their attention. He happens to use social media as his playground. He's agnostic. He could use outdoor out of home advertising if he wanted. And so in social, you have a focus group that is immediate. You put something up there, you see how they respond, you see what people are spending their time with or how they want to dig deeper into gummy bears, something like that. I mention all of that because we have a very strong resident class and we bring in residents three times a year, three months. You get paid, you get paid to learn and you get paid to execute. So you are really getting paid to put millions and millions of dollars on social media platforms for X brand. That's a big, big responsibility. The reason I say all of this is, yes, we are getting that young blood in. And I can see exactly how they are managing their day, how they're managing their schedule, how they're, you know, jamming with people in the kitchen, how they're scared to speak up, all of that stuff. So I also get, I would say, a first row seat into seeing where these generations are spending their time too, if that makes sense. It's kind of like it's sandwiched. It is the job that we do as, as, as Vayner and what we're creating for our clients each and every day. But it is also what makes this company so great, is we all generalization, spend time with each other. What's going on for you? Are you having a hard time? Is your father in the hospital? Did you get a raise in the salary? Did you get engaged? Did you have a terrible review? I have systems in place to catch all of that now. If someone is having a terrible day, did not get the raise that they wanted, they know where to go, they know who to speak to, and we know how to kind of solve that problem. It might not going to go overnight, but there are places to go to get yourself heard and solutions to be found. So if that makes sense.
- [22:22]
Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah, I love that and I know that. So earlier on, you talked about how you knew how to scale empathy. That was something that you, like, intuitively or through past experience, felt comfortable with. I'm guessing the vast majority of the world does not feel like they know how to do that, so. And then you were just talking about some systems that you have in place to be catching those sorts of things now, like, again, knowing we're outside of what's in the book. But I think it's interesting as far as conversation here, like how. What are some of those tips or tricks or some things that maybe feel like you should do, but is like, definitely stay away from that. You know, what have you learned over the years that's helpful for anyone who's now feeling like, I wish I could do something like that? Where would I even start?
- [23:05]
Claude Silver
Yeah. So I want to break empathy down for a second. So people think that empathy means putting myself in your shoes, which I could never do in a million years. I just can't. Metaphorically, we have different shoe sizes. But I will never know what your actual lived experience is like, and you will never know what mine is. So empathy is an emotion. How we express empathy is kindness and compassion. When you break it down that way. We are taught how to be kind at 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8. We are taught how to be kind at a very, very young age. Kindness is a form of empathy. What I say empathy is is riding as a passenger with you, I am along for the ride. My hand is on your shoulder telling you, it's going to be all right. We're going to get through this. But I don't take it on. I have to separate myself. If I was to take it on or step in your Shoes. I would have an A, no boundaries, and B, not be able to help you because I would be taking it on. You need me to be next to you, riding shotgun, your wing woman. To be able to just walk with you and say, you know what? I know this is really hard. I can see that you're very disappointed about not getting that raise. I'm not sure what we can do about it. However, let's go talk to your manager. Let's go talk to someone in the people experience team. And finally, like, let's go talk to Claude and see if she's able to move any mountains here. Like, was your performance that stellar? So that's the way if. When I break empathy down like that, I think it's a little bit easier to understand, which is, it's. It's being the bigger person. It's showing kindness. It's using emotional intelligence skills. It's taking accountability that you're a human being and you see another human being in need. So what are you going to do? Are you going to say, yep, that person's in need and it's uncomfortable for me, and walk away? Okay. That's what most of us do. Or are you going to say, are you okay? Like, I don't really know you, but are you okay? Do you need to talk to anyone? Right. That's what we want to do. We want to put ourselves out there and say, you know what, this person's hurting. This person's crying in the bathroom. This person just celebrated the fact that, you know, they won that big pitch, like, how are we going to act with others? And that is also going to keep us feeling, like, safe. We're okay. We're not merging into them. So that's a big deal. Boundaries. Lack of boundaries is a. Is a huge can of worms.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah.
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Melina Palmer
Fascinating.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Thank you for sharing. I recently had a conversation and was reminded of a study that was done in a conversation earlier this week where there were just thinking about, like, you were saying that people tend to just kind of walk by or not take the time to, like, invest in that. So the study that was done, it was actually for a group of people who were studying to become priests, and they were told that they were going to go and be giving a presentation on the Good Samaritan, like, that they were going to be talking about that, and then they had to get across campus. And so for half of them, they were told they had an hour to get there. You know, that's like all the time in the world to get over. The other was like, you have to be there in like two minutes. You're already late.
- [26:36]
Melina Palmer
Right.
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Co-host or Interviewer
And so on the way, there was someone who was very clearly struggling and in pain, maybe like laying on the ground groaning or something. Almost everyone stopped when they had the hour of time, and basically no one stopped when they only had two minutes. And these are people training to be priests, talking about the Good Samaritan. And they don't end up stopping, stopping on their way over because you just are so laser focused right on where you're trying to get and like, you know, blinders on everything else. And just knowing how overwhelmed we are at work. We're so busy, pulled in so many directions and just life, you know, in general things, you know, I think it is hard sometimes to stop and look up. Right. And to have that space, whether it's to evaluate, like, who actually am I as a person and how do I want to show up or what's going on with the person across the room versus just like, this is the deadline I have, so I have to just put all my energy into that and not look at anything else.
- [27:39]
Claude Silver
Yeah, I lie. I love that story, by the way. That is a great riddle in many, many ways. It's a what if? What do you do? For me, it comes down to having a culture that understands it's in the water, meaning it's in the water that we all drink, that we want to be the bigger person in every situation, and if not every, we want to learn how to be the bigger person. What does that look like to actually, as a human being, take accountability for another human being. That's as basic as I can say it. It's. That's a big statement. So I have to break those things down in a workplace. Because a statement like that, if I said to someone across from me, a manager who wants to become a leader, you know, you really need to learn how to be there for others, I am going to have to say. And that means knowing yourself, emotionally regulating yourself, and being able to put your judgment aside and figure out how to create a space very quickly to reach out to another person that's hurting so that the space that's created isn't you. It's a space that's created for this person to jump in for this person to do whatever they need to do so you don't take it on, which is very difficult, you know, so that's. That's a lot of the job, which is, well, why wouldn't you stop? I know I said you have two minutes to get across the campus. But someone's hurting. What is more important, your win or someone hurting? And that's a judgment call. I can't do that for people. I only know what I would do. And I hope that we're building a culture and know that we're building a culture that asks people to think about are they going to stop or not stop? My hope is that most of them stop.
- [29:42]
Co-host or Interviewer
Right? Yeah.
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Melina Palmer
And be you.
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Co-host or Interviewer
And we have to be looking for it and be thoughtful and it's prepping kind of in advance and, and everything really that goes with that. So.
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Claude Silver
Yeah, well, what, what I would say, I think the other thing I would say is when everyone knows that, that building this culture, cultivating the culture is their responsibility too. What I say to people in orientation is, hey, congratulations, all you new people, you are just as responsible for this culture as I am. You are now going to put your fingerprint, your heart print on this culture. And how awesome is that? How awesome.
- [30:23]
Co-host or Interviewer
Bringing in, you know, gotta always be tying it back to the behavioral science. Right. Because that's my role in this. But so that's the IKEA effect. People like things more when they have a chance of being able to help build them. Right. And I love when, I mean, how cool that people decide to name their finding. The IKEA effect is just fun and funny anyway. But so love that when you can bring people in and especially when it's that like first day sort of, you know, like, welcome, you're part of this, just starting things off in that way you can think about how that creates a brand new trajectory. Than if it's like, do I, do I even matter? Am I even that important? Like you're. We're nervous and scared and feeling stressed on our first days, right. As we come into a new role, am I going to perform? Are people going to care? Like, you're so cognitively strained in that process and then to be able to have a little bit of comfort and go, oh, I do, I matter, I belong here. Right. Helps them to just feel like they both fit in and belong. And I know you talk about those things in the book, so maybe you want. That's a decent segue. If you're going to say something else, feel wait free to do that too.
- [31:37]
Claude Silver
What I would say is agree everything you said. And every, every time an individual feels as though they are willing to show up, they are willing to take up space, they are willing to be big in the room, there's an inner voice there that actually says, I belong here. When they are willing to do it. It's very difficult to bring things out of people if they're not willing or open to share. Whether or not that's an idea, whether or not that's an opinion, it doesn't really matter. So I would say so much of this work, which is why we're chatting, is behavioral science is all about human behavior. And you and I know that we can only change and affect our own behavior. So when people are coming to VaynerMedia, I truly believe after they've been interviewing with us for, you know, six rounds, five rounds, they definitely get the idea of who we are and how our, how we do our culture here. Right. And what is important to us. And psychological safety is important to us and connection is important to us. They get, they then get to make the choice of this is the type of culture that they want to be in or would they rather punch in and punch out? And that's cool too, right? This is, but this is who we are.
- [33:04]
Melina Palmer
Yeah.
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Co-host or Interviewer
And having that be just really clear for people so that you do attract and bring in the, you know, more of the right fit. Right. And just helping everyone to be in the best scenario. Because like you said, it's not that it's bad for those who want to clock in, clock out and have that type of a role. And it doesn't mean that's what they want for their whole life and they're stuck in it forever. But in going through a process and being able to let someone determine, like, yeah, you know, I don't think I.
- [33:33]
Melina Palmer
Want this right now.
- [33:34]
Co-host or Interviewer
Like great, like best for both to figure that out in the interview process and to put that investment in upfront to make sure that it's really, really, really the right fit before that kind of day one. Because it's a lot harder to phase someone out than it is to just never have hired them.
- [33:54]
Claude Silver
Oh yeah, and then, then it, you know, it costs what, 33% to then go re recruit that backfill. So yeah, we want to be very choiceful in who we bring in and ask a lot of open ended questions such as, you know, when was the time that you failed? Listen for if they're talking about I statements or is it we or is it he or she failed? That's an easy thing to do. Listening to people and hearing how they answer those questions. When was a time when you and your team succeeded? Listen, is it an I or is it a we? You know, and these are, these are things that all of us can do.
- [34:38]
Melina Palmer
So out of curiosity, in that Is.
- [34:40]
Co-host or Interviewer
It that when it's asking about where someone failed, you want them to be taking accountability and saying, I did a thing. If it's talking about the success of the team, that it would be more of a we did this, then that would be great.
- [34:52]
Claude Silver
That would be ideal. Yeah. Unless they're an individual contributor. And in that case, I know we're hiring them for an individual contributor role and they really don't work with other people. But. Yeah. Like, are you part of a team or are you a lone ranger? Right.
- [35:10]
Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah. Love that.
- [35:12]
Melina Palmer
Yeah.
- [35:13]
Co-host or Interviewer
Well, I'm.
- [35:15]
Claude Silver
I have.
- [35:15]
Co-host or Interviewer
So, like I told you before we started chat that, you know, we started chatting before we turn hit record. Right. That I have so many notes of things I wanted to talk about, and I've been able to loop some of them in, but the conversation has been so just fun where it's been taking us. So I'm gonna ask, just bringing it back to, you know, the title of the book. And we've been, of course, talking about this idea. But. So the book is Be Yourself at Work. Can you share a little bit about, you know, what does it mean to be yourself? Why'd you write the book? You know, all of that.
- [35:49]
Claude Silver
Someone asked me actually the other night why I wrote the book. And I'm so happy they did, because that's the end. All be all. I wrote the book because I've been in the workplace for a very long time. I have myself shrunk. I have witnessed other people shrink. I have witnesses. I have witnessed cultures be extremely hardcore cutthroat. I have witnessed cultures and leaders be full of fear and sharing that out on the floor. And most importantly, we spend all this time at work and the fact that I know that people open that door or turn on their laptop and they all of a sudden put their wonderful self in the back and think that we want to see this cookie cutter part of them or this robot or we want everyone to look the same. It's just not. It's not true. The only way to change that is by a example, leading by example and talking about how you can do this in a way that works for you. And again, I'm not asking people to literally just go in and be there, you know, take dive, off the high dive. This is literally like, you gotta do what's right for you and what's best for you. And I believe that you can do it. So I want this book to be my hand on someone's shoulder and saying, you got this and I got you. And there's nothing you can't do here. There's nothing that we can't fix. So why is it so important to be at work? Well, because when you are not at work and you are keeping. You are withholding yourself and a. That is going to cause you a lot of stress. That is going to come back to catch you. That is going to cause you a lot of anxiety because people are going to think that you're just a. Okay the way you are. And then something's going to happen. A client is going to say something and you are going to react in a certain way. And people are going to be like, what's going on with Bobby? That. What. We've never seen him react like that. He's just usually very stoic. Well, no, Bobby got triggered about what the client said. And so. So now we need to find out. Now we need to dig into that. There's no reason for us to put extra weight on our backs. We have enough. We have enough demand. We have enough. There's enough hustle in this world. There's enough, you know, I need to get this done yesterday. There's enough comparing ourselves to other people. I would really like the workplace to be a place where people can feel comfortable sharing more of themselves because that will only add to creativity. That will only add to friendship. That will only add to some great innovation or experiment. If we get more people feeling like they're safe at work, feeling like they do matter at work. And I don't think it's difficult for leaders to do that and to leave that kind of map. I just think it's difficult for humans. Leadership, you know, leadership's a choice. You get to make that choice each and every day. How am I going to show up today? You know, when I look in the mirror in the morning and I'm, you know, finishing getting ready, I'm like, that's it. Yeah, I'm a leader. I got that. Some days I don't feel like a leader. You know, some days I'm not as. Not as sharp. Okay, well, I have to be very mindful and understand my energy, how to immense that energy. But, but more than anything, I don't want people to walk into the workplace feeling shame, feeling triggered, feeling like they can't, feeling like they failed. That's already. We already carry that all day long with. Whether or not it's from our families, whether or not it's from early education, it doesn't really matter. It happens. And all of us have that extra weight. And when you are able to Take that backpack off your back slowly but surely. You will feel happier, will feel happier. Whether or not you do it in the workplace, whether or not you do it on a surfboard, it doesn't matter. You will feel freer, feel more liberated. And that's what, that's what we want.
- [40:00]
Co-host or Interviewer
Absolutely. Well, and so that definitely gets at the individual side, right, of, like, why it matters as a person. And for anyone who's maybe saying, but that's not. Not our. It's not our company's job to make you feel like you. It's our company's job to do, run a business and to sell widgets or whatever it is that, that we're doing. And so, you know, the. What's in it for me for the, the C suite, if there's someone who's feeling skeptical there. What, what's the value for an organization of having a team of people that feel like they can be themselves at work?
- [40:36]
Claude Silver
Well, it's called retaining high performers. That's actually the name of the game today, is making sure that you can create consistency and continuity within your company. That people have IP and they stay there and they pass it on. That's the big name here, which is we want to retain the top talent. We also want to attract wonderful talent coming in that's going to be able to bring different curiosities and different ideas into the workplace. You know, we want a workplace where people enjoy working together because for most of us, we work in teams. For most of us, even if you're the CEO, you need people around you to get things done. So, you know, being able to collaborate, being able to understand what it's like to be in a professional setting and know that, you know, you're not going to spread your pizza all over the desk. You're going to keep your stuff, you're going to keep your area as tidy as you can because you sit next to someone else and they don't want your pizza over there. So the benefit. There's so many benefits which also increase the ROI of your company. You have longevity, you have loyalty, and you have continuity. Well, then that's fantastic because I want you to stay on my brand for the next seven years. You already are hitting home runs. Why would I want to lose you? You know, so, you know, that's what I would really say. I mean, it's really retaining, attracting, you know, recruiting and then growing and developing these people so that they can then go on and be the CMO of whatever they want to be the CMO of or they can go start their own company.
- [42:27]
Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah, definitely. I, you know, for. I talk with clients all the time about when it comes to that culture piece, that it's like the. When the culture's bad, the people that are most likely to be able to leave that have the most options and that are like, know who they are and what they care about and what they're willing to tolerate and all of that. What they're worth. Any of that. Those top performers are the first ones to go. Right. Because they've got options. I don't need to stay here.
- [42:53]
Melina Palmer
I'm out.
- [42:54]
Co-host or Interviewer
Right. And then you just get left with the, like, the worst group, you know, for the team, maybe because they're not a fit for you or anything else, but people that are just to hang on in that.
- [43:06]
Melina Palmer
That role.
- [43:06]
Co-host or Interviewer
And so when you don't invest in that culture and helping people to feel comfortable, it's just. Yeah. A bad all around.
- [43:16]
Claude Silver
Yeah, it's bad all. It's bad all around. And it's just a funky place to be. And, you know, it's funky because you get the Sunday scaries and you don't want to go in on Monday. That is. No. Or you don't want to go in on Tuesday or Wednesday or Thursday. Been there. No, thank you. I do not want to live that way.
- [43:35]
Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah.
- [43:35]
Melina Palmer
And just that it doesn't have to.
- [43:36]
Co-host or Interviewer
Be that way, which I think, you know, in a good. The one of the things that's like, I knew I had to bring up, and it's from the very beginning of the book, and I feel like it's a good, like, bow we can put on here. But the idea of changing the song in your head is. And while we potentially don't have time for the whole story that's around that experience, but I love that idea as a vocalist, just that idea. So can you share a little bit about how someone can understand and then change the song in their head?
- [44:06]
Claude Silver
Yeah. Yeah. It is a great story. We're constantly telling our ourself. We constantly have an inner dialogue going on. Most of us have a negative inner dialogue going on, and most of us have it on repeat. I don't belong here. I'm not smart enough. They don't like me. I fail. They're going to know I suck. All that. Right. It's called the imposter syndrome. Or you have limiting beliefs that have been birthed, you know, from school. Probably those. That song that you. That song that you have in your head, I'm equating to the inner voice in your head that says, I'm dumb, I'm dumb, I'm dumb, I'm dumb. Only you can hear it. Only you can actually spell it out on a piece of paper. And really only you can change it. Sure, you can get help to change it, but what you need to do is say, wow, is that really true? Is it true? Am I dumb? Where's the evidence that I'm dumb? I'm at Vaynermedia. I work for Gary Vaynerchuk. I've been there for a long time. I don't think that means I'm dumb. Okay, so if I'm not dumb, what am I? What's the opposite? I'm a different kind of learner. I learn through experiences. So I want to put something else in my brain. Change the song in your head that is going to lift me, not put me down. We do that constantly to ourselves. We put ourselves down constantly and that is what holds us back, that we allow ourselves to shrink because we are telling ourselves we stink. And you don't stink. Look for the evidence where you don't because there's tons of it. And if you can't find it, find a buddy that will say, you just hit that incredible analysis out of the park. What are you talking about? You just aced your exams. What are you talking about? And it's tough because that song in your head has been there for a very long time. So you have to be willing to do the work to really excavate it, see if it's true or not true, and then find what is true. Find that new song in your head that is going to drive you forward rather than leave you hanging back.
- [46:21]
Co-host or Interviewer
I love that. And just as I was hoping a really great thought kind of to end on for people as we put the bow on the episode with that in mind, knowing everyone is now going to be so excited to get their copy of Be Yourself at Work. And as I told you, we're launching this at the. This episode, coming out here, kind of first of the year, you know, feeling this new vibe for everyone who is so excited to get their copy of the book and to follow you and learn more, any of that, you know, what's their best path to do.
- [46:48]
Claude Silver
So, yeah, thank you so much. You can go to claudesilver.com that's my website. Claud silver.com you can go to Be Yourself book and obviously you can go to Amazon or Barnes and Nobles, any of that. I'm really vocal on LinkedIn. That's pretty much the place that I like to share thoughts and I like to get thoughts and whatnot. So write me. I would love to write you back and I really would love to know what you thought of the book and are there certain areas that stuck out to you that you find helpful? So thank you so much for having me.
- [47:23]
Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah, absolutely. What a fun conversation and such a useful book for everyone. So thank you again, Claude, for joining me on the show. And we will have links in the show notes for everyone to check all that out, make it quick and easy for them. But yeah, thank you again. And here's to a year and beyond of all of us being ourselves.
- [47:41]
Claude Silver
Let's do it. Let's do it. Happy New Year.
- [47:44]
Melina Palmer
Thank you again to Claude Silver for joining me on the show today. What got your brain buzzing in today's conversation? For me, it's Claude's point that empathy doesn't mean carrying someone else's weight, it means walking beside them. That small distinction changes everything. It allows us to stay grounded and not totally weighed down while still showing up with compassion, which is the foundation of trust in any relationship, both professional or personal. I also loved her story about that song in your head.
- [48:16]
Co-host or Interviewer
And when she was on that hike, it really resonated with me in reading the book.
- [48:20]
Melina Palmer
And we all have one, right? Those are those quiet, often critical thoughts that shape how we show up each day. And you know, if yours has a melody, I love that.
- [48:29]
Co-host or Interviewer
But you know, of course it's not required.
- [48:31]
Melina Palmer
Maybe yours says, you're not ready, you need to be tougher or you have to prove yourself before you can relax.
- [48:36]
Co-host or Interviewer
And let them see who you really are.
- [48:38]
Melina Palmer
But what would happen if this year you changed that song to something more true to you? Something that says, I belong here, I have something valuable to offer, and I can lead with heart and still drive results. That small mental reframe could change everything for you and for your team around you when you lead by example. Because when we feel psychologically safe, we become more creative, collaborative and resilient. And that's why leaders like Claude and Gary Vee invest so much energy into building emotionally intelligent organizations. Because empathy scales, performance, and being yourself is good business. So as we begin 2026, maybe instead of resolutions that add way too much pressure, what if you chose one that brought a little more peace? Just show up as yourself. And it doesn't have to be everywhere, in every context and to a great extreme. You don't have to go from zero to a hundred here, everywhere. But even a small shift, one moment or conversation could be enough to create that change momentum that you've been needing?
- [49:42]
Co-host or Interviewer
What's that first thing that you're going.
- [49:44]
Melina Palmer
To do, that one small thing you can do right away? I would love to hear about it. Please do come share it with me on social media. Or if you prefer to share something that really stood out for you from the conversation, I would love to hear about any and all of it. Please do come share it with me on social media.
- [50:00]
Co-host or Interviewer
You'll find me as the Brainy Biz.
- [50:02]
Melina Palmer
Pretty much everywhere and as Melina Palmer on LinkedIn. There are links in the show notes to make it easy as well as links for my top related past episodes.
- [50:11]
Co-host or Interviewer
And books and including Be Yourself at.
- [50:13]
Melina Palmer
Work plus ways to connect and more.
- [50:16]
Co-host or Interviewer
It's all waiting for you in the.
- [50:18]
Melina Palmer
App you're listening to and@the brainybusiness.com558.
- [50:25]
Co-host or Interviewer
And.
- [50:25]
Melina Palmer
Thank you again to Claude Silver for joining me on the show today. It was a delight to chat with and learn from you. Join me next time for another brainy episode of the Brainy Business Podcast.
- [50:36]
Co-host or Interviewer
It's going to be a lot of fun.
- [50:37]
Melina Palmer
You don't want to to miss it. Until then, thanks again for listening and learning with me and remember to be thoughtful.
- [50:50]
Podcast Announcer
Thank you for listening to the Brainy Business Podcast. Molina offers virtual strategy sessions, workshops and other services to help businesses be more brain friendly. For more free resources, visit the Brainy business dot com.