The Brainy Business Podcast | Episode 561

Building Trust Through Vulnerability with Dr. Leslie John

Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode, host Melina Palmer sits down with Dr. Leslie John—behavioral scientist at Harvard Business School and author of Revealing: The Underrated Power of Oversharing—to explore how vulnerability and thoughtful sharing can actually increase trust, connection, and effectiveness in both life and business. Challenging conventional wisdom that warns against oversharing, Dr. John shares research and stories illustrating that the greater risk often lies in saying too little, not too much.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Challenging the Myth of Oversharing

• Undersharing vs. Oversharing
  • Melina notes that "we've been conditioned to think that the real risk is saying too much," but Leslie’s research indicates that undersharing and missed opportunities are often the deeper problem. (00:40)
  • Leslie coins the term TLI – Too Little Information to balance the commonly referenced TMI. (09:49)
  • Quote:

    “We worry a lot about TMI—too much information. That gut wrenching, ‘oh, I said too much’… But we don’t even have a term for when we share too little. Well, I just made one up: TLI—too little information.”
    — Leslie John (09:49)

Context and Subjectivity in Sharing

• Defining Sharing, Oversharing, and Context
  • Leslie describes sharing as “how much of myself, my thoughts, and my feelings should I share.”
    Oversharing is sharing too much, undersharing is sharing too little, but what’s “too much” or “too little” is highly contextual. (09:49)
  • Example: Revealing you have an STD is appropriate with a doctor but may be deeply uncomfortable elsewhere. (12:13)
  • Topics like sex and finances are consistently rated as most sensitive globally, yet context decides what’s appropriate to share. (13:00–14:17)

Workplace Applications: Transparency vs. Vulnerability

• Two Types of Openness

  • Transparency: Cognitive openness—sharing your thought process, explaining your rationale. Usually safe, helps build clarity.
  • Vulnerability: Emotional or personal openness—sharing sensitive feelings or “real” weaknesses. Higher risk, higher reward. (14:42)
  • Quote:

    “Transparency is usually very safe, and it’s lower, a lot lower risk. Vulnerability is higher risk, higher reward...”
    — Leslie John (15:19)

• Examples: Feedback at Work

  • Transparency example: “As I was reading your draft, I was thinking about what the reader would understand…” (17:00)
  • Vulnerability example: Sharing an embarrassing or emotionally impactful personal story connected to the work. (19:50)

• Why Feedback is So Difficult—and So Important

  • People avoid giving feedback because they fear awkwardness or being hurtful, leading to undersharing—especially in professional settings. Yet, detailed feedback is crucial for growth. (18:21–20:29)
  • Studies confirm the effectiveness of the “feedback sandwich”: starting with a positive before offering criticism. (20:29)
  • Quote:

    “The way we learn—the only way to learn—is to get feedback. It’s so important...but we shy away from giving it.”
    — Leslie John (20:29)

Authenticity in Job Interviews

• How to Prepare and What to Share
  • Strict scripting sounds inauthentic. Instead, think in bullet points and allow some openness in responses. (25:07)
  • Interviewers prefer candidates who express authentic thought processes and even admit real (but workable) weaknesses—this increases likeability and credibility. (26:00)
  • Citing Dan Cable’s research: More “glue words” (connectors like “and,” “so,” “because”) signal authenticity, making a candidate more relatable. (24:18)
  • Memorable anecdote: Leslie recounts accidentally making a sassy remark during a Harvard job interview—a blurt she feared would cost her, but instead, “I got the job…they thought, 'She’s a jerk too, she’ll fit right in here.'” (29:33)

Power Dynamics: Sharing Up vs. Sharing Down

• Leaders and Vulnerability

  • Leaders with established competence have a higher “bank of credibility” and can safely express mild weaknesses without harming authority—in fact, it often builds trust and motivation in teams. (31:17)
  • Example: Leaders who model vulnerability (“I know time management isn’t my strong suit, and I’m working on it…”) make it easier for employees to offer honest feedback, creating a virtuous improvement cycle. (31:50)
  • Referenced research (by Adam Grant and Constantine Kuda Faris) confirms honest self-disclosure by leaders increases honest upward feedback. (32:55)

• “Vulnerability Loop”

  • Melina and Leslie discuss how either transparency or vulnerability can open a “vulnerability loop”: when one person models openness, others reciprocate, creating psychological safety and trust. (33:34–34:44)
  • Both transparency ("Here’s how I thought about your draft…") and vulnerability ("I’ve always struggled with this myself…") can serve as effective leadership moves.

Practical Takeaways & Advice

• Start Small, Experiment, and Pair With Questions

  • Leslie advises practicing these skills, starting with transparency (safer), watching the response, and incrementally adding vulnerability.
  • Always pair sharing with question-asking: “How did you experience that?”, “What did you think?” This not only gathers information but builds rapport and trust. (36:06)
  • Quote:

    “We do not ask nearly enough questions… Salespeople who ask more questions are more likely to close the sale. When you think about sales, we often think of ‘persuade, persuade’—and no, it’s about ‘ask, ask, learn, learn.'”
    — Leslie John (36:06)

• Overcoming the Fear

  • Melina summarizes: “We live in fear of saying too much, but it’s usually saying too little that costs us the most.” (38:20)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Prisoner’s Dilemma Story: Leslie’s grad school anecdote illustrates the tension between following rational strategy and trusting vulnerability—even early “mistakes” in openness can lead to deeper connection in the long run. (04:40–07:51)

• Feedback as a Gift:
  “The only way to learn is to get feedback. It’s so important. It really is a gift…yet we shy away from giving it.”
  — Leslie John (20:34)

• Authenticity and Hiring:
  “When you are a little real like this [in an interview], you are more likely to get the job and to match in a job that is a good fit for you.”
  — Leslie John (26:30)

• Power and Vulnerability:
  “When [leaders] reveal a little more than they think they should, like a mild weakness, it makes their employees more motivated to work for them, more trusting of them.”
  — Leslie John (31:40)

• Actionable Closing Thought:
  “What’s something you’ve been holding back that might actually be worth revealing? Start by sharing it…”
  — Melina Palmer (38:20)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro to Leslie John and the Problem of Undersharing: 00:40–03:42
• Origin Story: The Prisoner’s Dilemma and Early Career: 04:03–07:51
• Defining Sharing and the Role of Context: 09:49–14:17
• Transparency vs. Vulnerability at Work: 14:42–19:50
• Practical Feedback Examples: 16:41–20:29
• Job Interviews and the Sound of Authenticity: 24:18–26:00
• Sassy Job Interview Story: 28:57–30:43
• Sharing Across Power Hierarchies: 31:17–33:34
• Vulnerability Loops and Team Buy-In: 33:34–35:12
• Pairing Openness with Question-Asking: 36:06–37:11
• Final Takeaways & Where to Find Leslie: 37:37–38:35

Closing Thoughts

The episode closes by underscoring that meaningful human connection, trust, and influence at work all start with the courage to share—often just a little more than feels comfortable. Rather than fearing TMI, it’s often TLI (too little information) that costs us most. Dr. Leslie John’s research and stories offer both reassurance and actionable tools for those looking to build better relationships through thoughtful openness.

Learn more about Dr. Leslie John and her book by visiting proflesliejohn.com or connecting on LinkedIn. Further resources, related episodes, and links are available in the show notes at thebrainybusiness.com/561.