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The Brainy Business | Understanding the Psychology of Why People Buy | Behavioral Economics
Beyond Fast: The Power of Belief and Leadership in Coaching
00:52:13
In this episode of The Brainy Business podcast, Melina Palmer welcomes Sean Brosnan, author of the inspiring book Beyond Fast. Sean, a high school running coach, shares his remarkable journey of transforming a struggling team at Newberry Park High...
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- [00:00]
Melina Palmer
Welcome to episode 539 of the Brainy Business, Understanding the Psychology of why People Buy. In today's episode, I'm excited to introduce you to Sean Brosnan, author of Beyond Fast. Ready? Let's get started.
- [00:20]
Podcast Announcer
You are listening to the Brainy Business podcast, where we dig into the psychology of why people buy and help you incorporate behavioral economics into your business, making it more brain friendly. Now, here's your host, Melina Palmer.
- [00:35]
Melina Palmer
Hello. Hello, everyone. My name is Melina Palmer, and I want to welcome you to the Brainy Business Podcast. What does it take to break records the world says are impossible? And how can you encourage the people you're leading to believe they can achieve what's never been done when they aren't even sure they belong at the starting line? And what's the balance between mental and physical toughness? Anyway, today I'm so honored to be joined by Sean Brosnan, a high school running coach who took a scrappy team in Newberry Park, California, and turn them into the most dominant force in high school running history. Now, you might be thinking, that's cool, but what does high school cross country have to do with my business or career? A lot, actually. While the story is about running, it's more about leadership, about seeing what's possible when everyone else is stuck in the way it's always been about investing in belief systems, routines, and culture, about consistency, curiosity, and the courage to change your mind even when things are going well. Sean's coaching journey is filled with practical insights on team building, motivation, feedback, and, of course, mental toughness. Whether you're leading a global team, managing your own business, or just trying to get your Mondays under control, this episode has something for you. So here's a question to consider as you listen. What limiting beliefs are holding you or your team back from achieving something that's unreasonably great? Really quickly, before we get into the conversation, I want to be sure you know that there are links in the show, notes for my top related past episodes and books, ways to get in touch, and more. It's all within the app you're listening to and at the brainy business.com 53 9. Now let's jump right in. Sean Brosnan, welcome to the Brainy Business Podcast.
- [02:23]
Sean Brosnan
I am happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
- [02:26]
Melina Palmer
Yes, I'm super excited. As I was telling you in our kind of pre chat, this book, you know, I get pitched a lot of stuff and there's a lot that is definitely not a fit for all sorts of reasons. And I get a Lot of businessy stuff. And every so often there's a book that's outside of traditional business. But I can just see, like, what an amazing story, how fascinating and interesting and like, I see this connection. I'm so excited for people to be able to learn about, to grow from, to see how we put ourselves and brains in a box and they don't have to be that way. And I just really loved the story of the work that you've done, and I'm so excited to be able to have you here to talk about it. But instead of me doing it, can you share a little bit about yourself and, and your work for people who don't yet know you?
- [03:16]
Sean Brosnan
Yeah. So I, I was. I'm excited to get this book out there beyond fast. I coached cross country and track. I'm a. I'm a track coach. So the book is basically about my time when I was at Newberry Park High School. I had experience working with professionals, collegiates and different levels of running and kind of, I don't want to say by mistake, but I ended up coaching high school and it was about six years and I took a team from probably not, I would say at the national level at least, but not even at the local level, at the top, to being, which is considered probably one of the best sports team in high school history for four years in a row. And we just dominated on the national scene, broke multiple national records and, you know, some of my runners went on to be Olympians and, you know, NCAA champions and a bunch of great stuff. So this book is something that, you know, obviously is close to me, but I wanted to kind of go through the story of how I got where I was as a coach and the mindset that I tried to bring my team, which was maybe a little bit untraditional in the running world and in sports and, and any, any type of business, too. And I, yeah, I just wanted to kind of tell my story of the untraditional path I took. And it started kind of real young and it's almost like a memoir in a way and, but not, not so much. You know, it doesn't get too into, like, training and detail stuff. So I feel like it was something I wanted to get out there for, like, everybody to kind of be motivated by and kind of get to get to read.
- [04:48]
Melina Palmer
Oh yeah. And it is. It's such a good story and it's written very well. So congratulations on that as far as the, that like, drama, storytelling of like, I know sort of how it's going to turn out, but don't know enough of the story. So it's interesting to kind of see as it builds and builds and just amazing what was done there with the team. Can you share a little bit, like you said, of the, the uncommon story of how you got into coaching and your mindset and all that?
- [05:20]
Sean Brosnan
Yeah, so I, you know, I ran in high school. I started a little bit later in life, you know, as far as high school running and athletics. My junior year of high school. And I was, I kind of grew up in a family of runners. My grandfather was a coach and, you know, my dad coached. And so I was always around it and it wasn't the cool sport to do kind of when I was young. So I started off racing, you know, BMX and putting my focus into that. But, you know, along the years, I swear switched and decided to start running and I fell in love with it right away. And it was more of like, I always saw what you put in, you got back and that was like, important to me. Where some of the other sports, I felt nothing wrong with team sports. I think they're great, and track and field and cross country are big team sports. But I think I just, I always felt like I saw the repercussions of my hard work and that was what always attracted me to it. So as a runner and an athlete, you know, I ran in college, I ran post collegiately. You know, the, the definition of a professional runner is, is it's kind of a fine line. There's people that do very well financially and make a living at it, and there's other people like me who ran, got into some top pro races with Olympic medalists, but never really made a living at it. A little money here and there, but nothing crazy. And I just, there was something, I was kind of obsessed about it. And I, I love the. Had a. At a young age with my grandfather being a coach, I always wanted to know what made people faster? Could you make someone less talented faster? Could you. Is it in the mind? Is it. Is it more physical or is it the combination? Is it someone who at a younger age is more intelligent and gets it? I don't know. I, I thought about all these things at a young age, which probably wasn't common. And I always wanted to know why, why, why? And I kind of experienced that, experimented on myself, you know, throughout my post collegiate career. But in college I was lucky enough to run at some, you know, I was multiple different schools, but, you know, I spent a good amount of time at Adam State College where I ended up graduating from which was one of the best. It's Adam State University now, but they were one of the best Division 2 still are today programs in the country. My coach is, I mean he probably won over 50 national titles at this point. So things like that just influenced me to be like, hey, I really want to coach and I think this is what I want to do. So I took an untraditional path and decided to pretty much live out of my car for a while and travel the country and spend time with some of the best coaches in the, in the world. And that's. I immersed myself. I always thought I was better at watching and learning than like just reading a training book. And that's why I never wanted to learn that way because I was like, it's one thing like even as a coach, if I give coaches my workouts, I think it's different than actually being there and interacting and the conversations and the connections you have with athletes. I always say that. I say it's the connection. And so I wanted to be there and that's kind of what I did. And you know, I ended up at this, this journey of high school where my, my wife got this amazing opportunity to get a job. She's an engineering geologist for the state of California. And she. We had to move to this area in Thousand Oaks, California. And I was pretty bummed because we were living in San Clemente before that and on the beach. And I was like, man, I don't want to move up here, but we have to. And I said, you know, I've been around these like high school camps and I've spoken at them and I bet I can make a high school team pretty good. And I can't take a college job or a professional job because I'd have to leave where I'm at and I can't do that right now with, you know, with my wife Tanya and where she had to work. So I just half heartedly emailed about a dozen different coaches in the area. One of them got back to me within a day or two. I was hired as a coach and his history from there and we, I brought Newberry park to being, you know, one of the most like famous running teams in the country and sports teams ever. So it's kind of, kind of the, a nutshell of what happened in my journey.
- [09:19]
Melina Palmer
Yeah, I love that. And one of the things I thought was so interesting and what ties in, I think with good business relationships in general, like you said, the just being there and showing up, it ties in with Kind of that just networking approach where there are some people who go to networking events and there's sort of the joke of it's like you're handing out business cards like you're playing poker, right. Just like without actually talking to anyone or learning anything. And those people, it's like, okay, get out of here. It's like just trying to get something out of it just for them and not caring about anybody else. But like you're saying how it's like being out at Nike campus or wherever else and just kind of being there and people saying like, who. Who are you? And why are you. Why are you here? What are you doing? And. And having conversations and learning and being genuinely interested in what people are doing. I think humans respond well to that, of course. Right. And I think there's just a lot of lessons for whether it's people early in a career or just whether you're looking to make a transition in a career or anything, just being visible and genuinely interested in things can make it to where, when the time comes that you do need to ask for something, like down the line, where you're saying, hey, I'm looking for a coaching job, like, there's an opportunity there and people that will vouch for you and. And whatever else. So what, I guess, what advice or tips do you have of just showing up for people?
- [10:53]
Sean Brosnan
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like the old school sales that, you know. Well, I mean, ironically, I. I taught intro to business and entrepreneurship at high school. In high school, that was what I was. I was a business major in college. And, you know, and honestly, I just did it because I was knee deep in business classes and I was like, well, I'm going to finish out this major. And that's kind of how I did it. And I was going to switch to communications, and I had a really good professor at school that convinced me not to and stay with business. And even though I hated accounting, but I did it and I got through. It was not a big deal, but I did it. And I was probably more proud of that than picking a major that I really wasn't interested in. So I always had that mindset. But I also know, you know, I worked some sales jobs here and there, you know, throughout my. My life as far as trying to make some money, as I was trying to run and everything. And I always found that, like, number one, like, like, people love to be complimented. People love to be. They also want to be told what to do. And like you, you got to kind of balance those Two things. But I just said, I just said to myself, and I'm really big into a lot of different things, like even manifesting and like, you know, there's a difference between believing in something and, and say, oh, than saying you believe in something. And I've seen that. And I think I talk about this in my book where, you know, I had examples where I, I. So I had meetings when I was working in college, at one point in North Carolina as an assistant coach. And like, one kid had this goal and he was so proud of the goal, to brag to everybody. But at the end of the day, it's like he doesn't believe he can do this. There's a big difference. And you, you really have to start believing you can do it. But I just was like, you know, if I show up, what are they going to do? And just going to tell me to leave. Like, eventually. Like, I feel like I'm a likable person. Like, you know, and then I just started getting connected with one person after the other. It's like, you know, and you just like, hey, like, if I could help you out with anything or. At the time I was still training. Like one of the examples you mentioned, when I lived in, in Beaverton up in Oregon, there was one of the best, you know, track coaches and programs in the country up there with the pros. And, you know, I would be like, hey, if you need anyone who can to pace workouts, because I was still really fit, that I could pay some of the pros and different things and, you know, I could do that. And then it turned into, hey, can I. Can we grab lunch and talk about training? Or hey, do you mind if I come to this race with you guys? It's local and like, I'd pay my own way. I didn't care. And like, I. Then it became regular where I was just kind of hanging out and talk training and it's like, you know, you talked about the, like, well, I talked about the connection. And it's like there's an example I always use and I've said this so many times in interviews and different talks. There's like, I always say there's like two comedians in a room. Comedian, a comedian, B. Well, one of them tells a joke and the other one tells the same exact joke. Why is one of them funny and one of them not? There's a delivery. There's a way you say things. Like when I used to sit in the room with my college coach at, in Colorado, and I would listen to this Guy talk. I would, like. I would try to, like, jump to the moon for him. I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, I want to do anything for this guy. And then I listen to another guy say the same thing. I'm like, I can't stand this person. It's just everyone's different, you know, and it's finding that connection. And I think when it's authentic and you really try to get to know people and you really care, people can see that. And I think you just. You create greatness that way. And I wanted to break barriers. Like, I didn't. I wasn't shy about it. I'm like, I want to break records. I want to. I want this team to be the best ever. And I don't know, maybe I was a little bit naive, but I believed it could happen, and it happened, you know? And I think it's like that in anything in life, when you really want to do something, there's really no way. You can't. Unless. I mean, there's some obstacles sometimes you can't get over. But I really think most of the time, it's like, people complain all the time, like, hey, I want to make a million dollars a year. I'm like, well, you're a schoolteacher. Like, nothing offense. That's a great thing. I did it for a while. But, like, you'll never make a million dollars a year doing that, so figure out how you can. And that's same way with running and my attitude of just showing up. And I've never had anyone say, hey, get out of here. You know, so it's. I mean, I didn't just show up. It took a while, and it took some finessing and figuring out, but. And getting in with the right people. But, you know, when people are like, hey, I really look up to you, and I want to learn. I'm trying to figure this out. And they knew who I was. They would. Why wouldn't they let you? You know, I would do that. Now people email me and call me all the time, and I try to get back to as many as I can who have. Who want advice. Why not? You know?
- [15:11]
Melina Palmer
Yeah, I love that. And reciprocity is a big concept that we, you know, talk about here at the brainy business that when we give to people, they want to give back. And being generous, being open, giving that time or space or energy and just the curiosity, right? Like, people work hard to do what they're doing, and when someone is genuinely interested in it and asking good questions, you know, people Definitely respond to that, which is great. So you were talking a little bit about two people can say the same thing. The delivery matters, that connection matters. Right. And so we know for your story, and you can share a little bit more about this if it makes sense for the context. But being able to inspire a team of kids who at this point, you know, I know there was like one standout runner when you first came to Newberry park, that's like, hey, this kid could be really good sort of deal, right. But the rest was not like phenomenally the greatest team of all time, where you're coming into just like great genetics and super talented and motivated or believing they could even do it, convincing them and their parents, which is like a whole new layer of investing in, in the team. And you have kids that are playing soccer and doing cross country just to stay fit or something else. Right. Inspiring them to like rally behind this new philosophy and come together as a team. I think is really similar where often as a manager, you might be given a whole mix of people who, some that are naturally talented, some that are kind of not sure if they should even be there, that are distracted working on a side hustle, whatever else, trying to get them to buy in on an idea, a vision, that team mentality, think there's a lot of crossover. And fortunately, as a manager, you don't have to convince the parents to have to get buy in for people. But, you know, what advice do you have as far as if you were, you know, managing a team, knowing you majored in business, you know, what would you say to people of, you know, getting people to buy in on those causes?
- [17:18]
Sean Brosnan
You know, one thing I do, I think for a big like to talk about buy in is I've learned along the years. I had a coach at one point that I wasn't running well when I was training under him. And he never really had an answer for me. And I never felt like he tried to figure out what was wrong, why I wasn't running to what we thought my potential was. So I've had some of the great coaches that I've been around tell me it's your job to figure it out no matter what it is. And it sounds simple, but. So my example would be when somebody runs bad or someone. You know, I always say in a business and coaching like, it comes from the top, the success comes from the top, and the failures come from the top. You have to, as a manager, as a coach or whatever you're doing to me, accept those failures as your own. If your Employees are failing. If your athletes are failing or not achieving what you think they should or what they think they should or anyone thinks they should, then you need to figure it out. Like, when an athlete has a bad race and they come to me, the first thing I tell them is, I'm gonna figure it out even if I can't right then on the. On the spot, it's like, let's figure this out together. Because that's the worst thing you could, you know, for an employee who's not performing or an athlete that's not performing, like, they want to know. And, like, that's something that I've always took to heart. It's like, just don't be scared to admit your faults, because there's like, a lot of coaches will be like, ah, well, that they're not doing this or they're not showing up or they made a bad move in the race. So whatever it was that caused them not to get, you know, the way they were, but, like, to reach a goal, rather. But that's what I think. I think that's a big thing that I've always been. I feel like you got to be humble and really. And I believe it. I'm not saying it just for the point of saying it. It's like, no, if there's a problem, like, I always. I used to say, I never tell an athlete they can do something they can't achieve. I just. I just won't do it. My athletes will tell you that. Like, if I tell that athlete they can do it, I believe they can do it. And I think. But that belief comes from, like, hard work together. It's like, you know, a lot of coaches and people will be allowed. You just had some talented athletes. I just don't believe that, you know, Nico Young, who's an Olympian who graduated my program, who just broke an American record in the 5,000 meters, just won his first US title at 22 years old. Last week in the 10,000 meters, he's going back to the World Championships, favorite to win a medal, a World Championship medal. He was 5:1. His times weren't that fast in eighth grade. Like, he wasn't this big, talented guy. But there's a development. It's the same thing in business. Like, when you grow up in a certain environment and with certain parents, why do you become successful at certain things? Because you're nurtured and, like, you're. You're taught to do those things correctly, I think. And it's the same thing with coaching. I was at a Clinic once. And this. This young girl, high school girl, asked me a question. She's like, hey, coach, if you weren't at Newberry Park High School and you were at my high school, do you think you'd win a national title? And I. I said, how many people do you have in your high school? And she was like, 1500. Chad Jacky asked her, her teammate, and I was like, I would win one. Yes, we would. We would win one there. And she's like, why are you so confident with that? I was like, because you have elite. You have over a thousand kids, and over a thousand kids, I can find five kids that can be great. And I believe that. And I. And I do. And it's like, you know, I think a lot of times we get, you know, Newberry park got the misconception that, like, oh, you just had talented people. It's like, we develop talent, and sometimes the more talented ones are the hardest ones to train, too. So anyway, I just think you got to admit your faults, and you got to, you know, you got to really nurture those athletes or employees. And I think you need to, you know, if you're the boss and you're the CEO or you're the manager, you're the coach, like, and things are failing, don't blame the employees. Blame yourself and figure it out. That. That's kind of how I always.
- [21:01]
Melina Palmer
Yeah, I was so inspired by. In. It comes through in the book, really, in learning and seeing how much time you invested in each individual. And not just Nico as an example. Right. Or Colin or Aaron or Lex and Leo or anyone else. Right. It wasn't just that one person that was the star of the year that you really paid attention to, to. To that one person, but being able to see, like, this person is this style, and I need to invest in giving them space to be the leader, or we need to be motivating them to be more outgoing, or they need to know when to. When to jump or when to be talking to the team in a different way and when to give them ownership and when I should take that ownership. There's such a. It's so inspiring to see the relationship you have with each individual as well as thinking about the greater team and helping them to inspire each other in this real. That network effect that comes with everybody doing something hard together and having similar goals and being bought in, but also, like you say, seeing those individuals for what their goals are, what they can do, how they can help the greater team and achieve their own individual goals at the same time. It's just really cool and I think inspiring for managers who just by nature of work, you know, a manager, leader of leaders, whatever you are, you have a lot of other strategy and work on your plate. And it can, it can get to the point where I think too often managers think about like leading the team is just sort of a, like the, if I have time, I will do that. Right. But getting the best out of people in a, in a team, being able to, you get what you put into it, right? And when you can give more time to helping develop those members of the team, I think it just goes very well for the organization, for the individual, for the manager, like everybody. When you can invest more time in understanding them and their, their goals and, and working with them.
- [23:08]
Sean Brosnan
Oh, absolutely. I mean there's so many, there were so many little things throughout the years when, when I was at Newberry park and you know, even, it's funny even like, I just think so many times people, they just relate things to saying, oh, well, you just had, you got lucky and there's a bunch of talented kids. I wasn't the girls coach for the first two years. We had another coach and then I took the girls program over. Well, within three years we were breaking national records with the girls. We're a top ranked team in the country, won a state title. And it's like, that's what I mean by example. It's like, and it's like, but again, it's like having that relationship with them and, and figuring out what's the best. I know we never had really big teams at Newberry park and it was just, we just didn't get a lot of people out. But everyone that was there cared. And I always say some of my favorite athletes weren't the, that sometimes, I mean, the people that broke national records. I have, you know, I have, I have girls that left and went on to run. They weren't even fast enough to make their college team and they had to run clubs and I'd still communicate with them and they be breaking personal records for the clubs they run for. And it's like, that's great too. It's like that still builds character. It doesn't mean that like, you know, the misconception is when you're a high school coach and you have this success, it's like, oh, you only care about the elite people. It's like, that's not true. Like, I have still to this day great relationships with some of my athletes that were considered JV and slower at the high school level, and they've moved on. You know, some of them gone to law school, some of them are med school, corporate. You know, it's. And it's great. I think it's awesome. And I think that it comes down to just, you know, I think to me, the good coaches, it's like I went to a wedding last summer of one of my athletes, and it's like, that's. That's a great thing, too, because you're a part of their life, and I think they. They respect you for that. They. They want to do well for you, too. Like, they know that's important to them, but it's like they want, you know, because they know you're putting in work for them. And I think that's great.
- [24:57]
Melina Palmer
Definitely. That's. I mean, and I think we all have, you know, whether it's a teacher, a coach or something, that's. For me, I'm a vocalist. And so choir in high school was my club, right. Of the group of people coming together to do something that no one can do on their own. You know, sort of an approach. And I still very fondly, of course, remember my choir director, and he shaped so much of us and commitment and dedication and things like. Like that. And so I think we can all look to teachers and coaches that we appreciate and know that you can bring that into business world as well if you lead people and want to be inspiring. I'd love to transition a little bit to kind of the main reason that I wanted to talk to you originally, which has to do with this. The mindset of that can't be done. It's not possible breaking those records. Right? And I do love any. And it's. You see it again and again. No, it can't be done until one person does it, and then one person does it, and then all of a sudden, everyone can break a record again. Because you realize that that mental block was just that, right? Just something we believed that high schoolers can't run that fast or. Or whatever else. Can you share a little bit about some of those mental blocks that existed that you were perhaps, because of your background, uniquely able to say, I don't believe that that's a real limit, and I'm going to push it and prove it with this group of kids. How do you spot some of those and know how to push and help break those mental barriers?
- [26:28]
Sean Brosnan
Yeah, no, I mean, it's funny you say that, because in the running world, there's a famous story and everyone probably knows it. In sports, one of the biggest Sports stories of history was Roger Bannister who broke the first sub 4 minute mile when he did it in 1954. I don't know the exact number, but I think three or four people did it within a year or two. And it was like, well what happened that changed so much? It's like, that's exactly right. Like, you know, when we were at Newberry park, the one thing when I was around I, I came at it different because I was able to be exposed by some of the best pros in the world. And I saw some of these guys do workouts that like were unfathomable. Like you, you didn't think was possible. And then what I always, what always was kind of drilled in my head when I was around these people was like the human body is possible of so much more than you actually think. And then I started believing in it and it became so second nature to me. When I started coaching high school kids, it didn't mean we were going to kill these kids to run fast. But like that the, the barriers had to be broken. Like I said a line during an interview once and it kind of blew up as a meme in the running world. And I said 420 is not fast for high school miles, just not fast meaning like because if a kid runs 40 minutes and 20 seconds, generally he's considered a decent high school runner. Right? So I was trying to say that stop setting that standard. And then coaches got mad at me and sent me hate emails and DMs saying how dare you say that some kids will never run that. Who do you think you are? And my point was I remember talking to a coach once and saying, well, is 420 fast? And he's like, well yes. I said, well then, then you're, it's always going to be fast for you and your athletes. Just stop setting these guidelines of like what fast and what fast isn't like. I, I'm not a big goal person. Like what do you want to run this season? And, and let's say some high school kid, a really fast time is like 4,05 for the mile. They'll be like, which is it used to not be, but now barriers are getting broken. So they're like I want to run 404 for the mile. And it's like so I think when a kid says that it's like well why not 402? And I know eventually there's a limit. Not every kid's going to break a record. But like the point is I always say why Not. Why not? More like. My goals on my teams that I've ever coached are never really specific times. They're. What are you going to do every day during the grind, in and out? You make sure your iron levels are good, make sure that you're getting sleep, make sure you're hydrated, make sure your training is going well. We have training goals that calculate into the overall goals, because I think too many people get caught up on the overall goal and it's like, well, everybody, you know, there's. There's. Everybody wants that ultimate goal and run that fast time or make that money in life or be successful, but who wants to put the work in? I want you to enjoy the work, figure it out, and that's what we want to do. And I felt like I just took those barriers down. I just. I remember Nico Young, one of my best runners that I ever coached. You know, he was in his junior year, he was 4, fourth at the national championship his junior year of high school in cross country. He ended up winning it a senior year by a lot, but he was fourth. And I remember the Stanford coach called him, and at the time, that was his dream school. He ended up going to NAU and did. Obviously, it was one of the best programs ever and a great coach, so that's why he went there. But Stanford coach called him and he told me, and he was all excited, and he's like, hey, I told him my goals for this season. I'm going, what did you tell him? He goes, I want to run for the 3200 meters. I want to run 855. And in high school, that's a good time. But I was like, okay, Nico, we gotta talk. So I had to sit him down. I was like, you're capable of running under 8, 48 minutes and 40 seconds. You gotta stop thinking 8:55. Well, he ended up being the fastest in the country that year as a junior for seniors and everyone, he was a national leader. And he ran 840 flat. So the point is, like, even me saying 8:40, I think I put that in his head. So sometimes I just think you got to get rid of those barriers. And, like, man, I've seen so many examples in running where, like, people reach big and they achieve it. And it's like, I think people would surprise themselves. And if they really, you know, I know positive talk sounds cheesy to people, but, like, when you really start believing it and something clicks in your head, that's what I tried to do to my teams. And I think that's what an image we created and along with a very positive atmosphere. Like little things like, you know, you just want people to have fun when they're. When it's like, you know, in business, like I've heard stories about the company Zappos. Like people that work at Zappos love it and the environment's great. That's what I create at Newberry Park. Like we would have practice and even when we show up, there'd be music, there'd be atmosphere. You want that. You want people to be happy, to be there and look forward to it. And once you do that, it's like, I think you could delimit. It's limitless what you can do. So that's kind of how I went about it.
- [31:15]
Melina Palmer
Yeah. And such a good point. And the like say if you're trying to break 4:20, 4:05 and you're thinking just want to get to 404, right. But because that was the anchor that came up, it's like for me as a not fast runner, which, and I know, you know, it just is what it is, that's okay. But I've always had this dream of, I've never run a mile under 10, 10 minutes or like at 10 minutes, right. But I know it's very achievable. If I was going to focus on it and really work on it, I could definitely. Most anybody should be able to hit that. Just as a normal human person, you can run under a 10 minute. But as long as I'm thinking about breaking 10 minutes, then I might be like 10:30 or whatever else. I'm like over that. But if I think like, what if I was shooting for eight minutes, right. And I break it up into smaller blocks, I'm trying to get faster, pretty soon I break through 10 very quickly because it's not the, the line in the sand, right. That I've drawn for myself as I'm trying to get to 9:59. Right. And so as we think about goal setting and things for teams, there is this balance of not pushing too far, like you said, not telling. You're not going to tell me I can run 4:20 on a mile, right. Like, I, I know that's true, but like for, you know, as you look at where we're helping to set goals for people, it's something that's achievable for them maybe beyond what they may think they can do, but because they have the support, because they know that you've helped other people to do great things, you know, it's inspiring and can help push past those artificial limits when they exist.
- [32:54]
Sean Brosnan
There's a magic moment, I always say. I said, everyone's gotta get their moment and running. And I think it's like this in other avenues of life, too. Like, you know, I had it when I did a workout, I would do something that I didn't think was achievable. And. And that feeling when you do that, I want my. I always want them athletes to feel that. I wanted them to break that personal barrier because everyone, like you said, like, it might be, you know, five minutes for somebody in four minutes for another person, but, like, I want them to do something they never thought they can do. And it's just an amazing feeling. And, like, that's. That is, like, the basis of, like, I think what a lot of people do in life and businesses, and it's like, you know, people start a business and they're like, I never thought we'd get this big. I love when they say that. To me, that's what I want. I want people to achieve stuff they never thought they could do, and then all of a sudden, they do it, and it's like, what a sense of accomplishment. To me, that's living. Like, that's great. And like, that's. That's what I love.
- [33:47]
Melina Palmer
So, yeah, I love that too. And I think people finding that, whether it's in their business or it's something they're doing on the side, I will. I haven't actually said this in anything on the show or anywhere yet, but I have discovered powerlifting in the last year, and I can lift very heavy weights. And to be able to say, like, I can deadlift 230 pounds, like, that's pretty cool, right? And, like, maybe I can do more, like, how much. How much can I do? And finding a coach that can help to see what the limit is on that. It's. It's fun to do in that way and get a little stronger, do a little bit more. And whether, you know, you find your thing right, and you can have that sense of achievement as it goes. So I don't know now. Now the world knows, and I'm. Maybe I'll do a powerlifting competition sometime soon. We'll see. So we've talked a little bit about mindset and breaking those barriers. One of the other things that comes up so much in business is the status quo of, like, the way we've always done things. So there's the mindset on limits. But then it's also, like, we train a seven Day work schedule or like you have for the running piece or we've always go through this process, we do the things this way or something else. I love. There are so many examples in the book where you show like yeah, I don't care, that's not the right way to do it and I want to do it this other way and here's why. Right. There's a reason behind it. But can you share a little bit of some examples of breaking that sort of status quo or how we always, how we do things and maybe give some tips for people where they can see that a process just isn't right and they want to try something else. Something to help them to feel like they can tackle that in their, their work.
- [35:27]
Sean Brosnan
Well, yeah, like in the, in the running world, you know, you kind of mentioned a little bit. One of the things that I've always done is like the seven day work schedule. Like every, we live in the seven day schedule. That's the, you know, Monday through Sunday, right. In the training world it's very common and to be like, okay, everyone does a long run on Sunday, a longer run and they, you know, intervals, tempo, all these different work, they, they put a certain amount of work in. In those seven days. I always felt like it was rushed and I always felt like it was, it was forced. So what I used to do with the teams that I and people I coach was and, and still do is like a 10 day schedule and sometimes it could be a 12 or a 9. But I'm a big coach on feeling too like I go off of like how that athlete looks, how that athlete feels. And that's why I have to be around them. I'm not. It's hard to coach when it's online and, and all that type of stuff. But I would, you know, be like, well we're doing a 10 day schedule. So instead of in the, it's traditional in the running world to do a long run. So for high school kid might be like 10 miles which is long for like an 10 to 12 miles. For an elite high school kid on, on Sunday or Saturday depending on your state school, whatever you do. Some people don't run Sundays or whatever. But I changed it and I would do 10 days. So some days our long run would be in the middle of a week on a Wednesday or a Thursday and we would do 10 day cycle because you could fit so much more training within that 10 days. It wasn't rushed. If you felt really tired and fatigued, you could take an extra rest day. It Wasn't like, oh, I need to get this workout in and stuff it in. In seven days. So that's something that's like, like similar. But I just felt like my mind's always racing. I'm always thinking about training. I'm always thinking about ways that we can improve or do things. So anytime I think of something, it's like you just, you know, one of. There was an athlete who, who has since passed. He's a. A pro at, of all things, BMX guy. His name was Dave Mira. And I remember he's probably one of the. He won some of the most, like, medals in the X Games ever. Right? Well, I was watching, like this, like, documentary interview on him, and I couldn't even quote it right, but I remember him saying, like, like one of the interviewers who knew nothing about bike riding saying, what do you think that you did that makes you, like, why did you get to this point that you've won this many X Game gold medals, whatever. He goes, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't afraid to fail. I wasn't afraid to fail. And he goes, when I went to the skate park, it was all about image. And I'd ride and do jumps and try whatever he was doing, tricks. He goes, I wasn't afraid to fall and get back up. And I didn't care if I embarrassed myself. And it's the same way, like, you can't be afraid to just change things up. Not just to change things. It's like, don't do things different just to do things, but generally research things and try to figure it out. It's like, you know, there's a famous saying, like, I'm going to misquote this, but, like, if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, you're going to get the same result. Like, so it's like, why not change things up? You know? And that's how I always was as a coach. It's like, you've got to constantly be innovative and change things. I'm sure it's like that in business, in the business world, you know, I mean, I talk business, so I tried to convey that to my students when I did that, even though it was a basic intro and, you know, class and, you know, entrepreneurship, but, like, which I love more because I love the mindset of entrepreneurs. I love those people that are, like, on their third career and then they make it, you know, because they failed. Like, how many times do billionaires and millionaires fail or go broke or go bankrupt? I think it. I Think they all do at one point, usually unless they inherit, like, oil money or something. I don't know. But that's the thing, and that's what I think it is. I think you just can't be afraid to fail and, like, you know, or look stupid or silly in front of people. I mean, the bigger your success is, the bigger target you are. There's people in the running world that are like, oh, Sean Brosnan does this and does this, and he does it wrong, and he just gets lucky. I don't believe in luck. I really don't believe in luck. I think life is about timing. Everyone gets three opportunities in life to be successful. Don't blow it. And just. That's it. And I believe it. I had an acting friend of mine that told me I'm going to get three chances to make it in acting, and I just can't. I got to be ready on those days. And this. He's probably right if he stays in it long enough, you know, so. And I. And I feel it's just, you gotta be willing to change some things, and why not try stuff, fail? And then it's like, I heard a good saying once. And again, I don't know who said this, but there was a. I was listening to this other podcast years ago, and this guy said, every time something fails in my life, I say good. He goes, good, because he just moves on to the next thing. He's like, good. And it's like that mindset is kind of how you have to be as a coach. It's like, I'll stop athletes in the middle of the workout, and they'll tell you this, and I'll be like, I messed up. We should not have done this today. But they respect you for that because you're being honest. And it's like, see, you got to admit that. And then you figure it out. And then if you do those things, you figure it out. If you do the same thing all the time, you're never going to figure it out. So that's kind of the way I look at it.
- [40:28]
Melina Palmer
Yeah, I love that. I was thinking about. There's a. In the. You keep doing the same thing. You know, that kind of. They. I think they say definition of insanity on that. Right. But it's also one of the ones that I heard once that I really liked was it says, even if you're on the right track, if you don't move, eventually you're going to get hit by a train. So you got to get out of the way. Right? Go do something, try something out. And I like this idea of the three sort of failures. Right. One, if you can mentally prepare for the idea that not everything is going to work out all the time and be perfect, um, you're going to lose a race, you're going to run slower than you thought. You're going to have a product you invested in that nobody actually wants to buy. Like, all the stuff that can go from that. Right. And so if you know that that can happen, like, you can kind of check the box, see what I learned from this and, and what I'm going to do better that next time, thinking about that, you know, longer game that comes in together and using that as some motivation to do better tomorrow. I think, too, I really am a big advocate of this. You can't do all the things and be really good at everything like nobody can. And so for the, you know, the great runners, right, you're investing in that and having to say no to a lot of things that might be fun or interesting. I like to tell people to say not yet. You know, for stuff that feels exciting or whatnot, but it just has to be. If you want to be elite at anything, you have to live and, and breathe and, and sleep and exist that thing all the time, and you, you know, get rid of a lot of space for other stuff. So I think in business, people tend to get pulled in too many directions, and so we never get to be great at the one thing that maybe we could have stood out for. Do you have advice for people who maybe need to say no to some stuff or helping to find an area of focus or things like that, to be able to really invest in whatever's going to be their most important thing.
- [42:39]
Sean Brosnan
Yeah, I mean, sometimes I think subconsciously you do these other things too, because you're almost, like, scared to succeed. I mean, it sounds. I think we've all heard that, you know, the psychology of, you know, business, sports or whatever, athletes. And it's like, I think. I think that's. That's kind of true. I just think, you know, at the end of the day, if you're trying to do something that nobody's done well, then you have to, like, commit the way nobody's committed. And it's like, it is that simple. And I'm sure there's an. I always say there's an exception to every rule because you might look at some guy with the Persona that he, like, parties and still does stuff, but he's this great athlete. But at the end of the day, a could he been way better. Could he have been a medalist instead of one of the best athletes in the US but now he could have been a world medalist at Olympics or something like that if he just focused. Or maybe you never made it as a pro or even in business, but it's like you have to be so kind of single track minded sometimes. But like the biggest thing I always say is like, enjoy that journey. Like you gotta figure out a way to enjoy the journey of that hard work that like, you know, the. One of the. I had two amazing ghostwriters in my book, Chris Lear and Andrew Greif, you know, so Chris Lear wrote an amazing running book back in the day called Running with the Buffaloes. And it was like a huge hit in the running world. And he told me when we were, you know, writing this and we were putting it together, he was like the thing about Colorado that like when he. I wanted him to write this book with me and he was like, basically said, no, no, no. I finally, I spent a weekend with them in Massachusetts. And then he's like, I'm doing it. Like it was one of those things where I was able to convince him. But he, I don't know, he would tell me stories about how at Colorado, when they were national champs, similar to like Newbury Park University of Colorado back in the 90s, that these guys would rather go to bed at 9pm and kill the workout the next day and do an amazing job on a Saturday, then go out and party with, with their, you know, classmates and you know, whatever at a college. That's the same thing in Newberry park. Like, you know, we went to Altitude for a month. You know, these kids were away from their families. They came up and visited. We're only two and a half hours away up in Big Bear about, you know, 68, 7, 7,000ft. And like we would because I knew how important it was to the development of training and that's a commitment. Like those things where they now they're not going to the beach with their friends in the summer. I mean, we're going to the lake and they're running, friends are here. And we had great, great stories and fun times too, which you have to do. They're still kids, but it's like that's the commitment. No, it's like, you know, I don't know, why not sacrifice? I always, I always tell these high school kids and collegiates when I was coaching in college, I said, listen, you have four years to four to five years of your life to do something great. Why not do it. I mean, you're going to be able to party and do all these other things after college. You don't need to do this. So, like, you have four years to be an All American. You have four years to qualify for national championship. You have four years to run your personal best. And I would rather, I think, be around and hire or be with somebody that didn't reach their goal but did everything to reach it, than someone who reached it and partied and didn't care. And I just think that's the difference. And I think that's, that's like the best advice I could always give. It's like, find a way to enjoy the process and, like, be honest with yourself. And like, I think that's when. That's when greatness happens. It's easy to be good. It's hard to be great. I always used to tell my kids that. It goes so easy to be good. We could be good high school team. We can go to the state meet, be top three. But it's going to be hard to be national champs year after year when the target's on her back. And that's, that's kind of how I look at it.
- [46:22]
Melina Palmer
I love it. Well, thank you so much. I could talk to you all day. I'm sure everyone feels that way with so much like, say it's inspiring, it's interesting, such cool things that you've done. But to be respectful of your time and of the audience, we'll go ahead and go to transition and close things out now, of course, if you have any last thoughts, I feel like that put a nice bow on things. But if there's anything you would like to share, please do. We'll have links for people to get the book and whatnot in the show notes. But for everyone who is excited to follow you and check out what you're going to be doing into the future and next steps and all the things. What's the best way for them to follow and connect and whatnot?
- [47:03]
Sean Brosnan
Yeah, best way is probably my Instagram real Sean Brosnan. So that's just real Sean Brosnan's easiest way. Recently, I am going to be coaching a pro group that's going to be probably announced closer to January. No, no official announcement yet. But, you know, I've started small with two pros right now and we have more joining the group and we're going to have a company involved and I'm excited about that to have finally, what I've dreamed about is having my own professional training group and I'M excited about that. So as a coach, it's, it's a dream for me and I can't wait to now get to the next level. But, um, yeah, and if anyone, I would love for people to check out the book. The whole point of the book to me is, and this is what I always say in a nutshell is like, it's not a training book. There's training in it. If you're a running nerd and a geek like, like who loves the stuff that I love, you're gonna see some really fun workouts and things that like, make sense and things that you didn't know, like, wow, they did that or that's how they did things. But I think if you're a non runner, you'll get it too. And it's, it's just the journey of like an untraditional path of how to get to where I got and the same. And like, hopefully when people read it, it's to me, I always say like when you watch a movie and it could be a movie about like, you know, business, but then I'm inspired to coach better. Like, I hope they, hopefully they read this book and they're inspired to do what they do better and that, that's the whole point of it.
- [48:23]
Melina Palmer
Yeah. Well, as someone who has read the whole book, I feel that I, I felt inspired in all these business ways. So definitely accomplishes that. I'm sure everyone will feel that as they get their co beyond fast, great to gift to others, including, you know, that high schooler that needs some motivation and everyone else in between and business moguls and whatever else. So like I said, we'll have links in the show notes and just thank you again for sharing your story and coming on the show. It's been really great to chat with you today.
- [48:53]
Sean Brosnan
Awesome. Thanks for having me. I enjoyed it.
- [48:56]
Melina Palmer
Thank you again to Sean Brosnan for joining me on the show today. What got your brain buzzing in today's conversation? For me, I've been thinking a lot about his coaching approach, especially when he talked about success not being about urgency. He said something along the lines of not trying to be better every single race, but to be consistent, keep showing up and don't panic if the results take a minute. That really hit home for me so often, especially in business, we chase results. We want the quick win, the breakthrough moment, the viral post, the magic launch. But true transformation, whether for a team, a brand, or yourself, comes from something quieter and more sustainable. We didn't really talk about it that much today, but for his team. The book talks about how Sean was so focused on simple things like stretching and hydration and things like that, those little things that can make such a big difference when you're doing them in a consistent manner. And rather than chasing urgency or demanding instant results, he focused on those successful, sustainable routines about trusting the process and reinforcing the identity of the team over time. One of my favorite lines that kept being repeated throughout the book, kind of a mantra of the team is that everybody counts and everybody is a point which in the case of running, you know, you have the team score matters more than individuals in some cases. And so you have to have everybody and everybody working together in a way that really, I think matters when it comes to team dynamics. Beyond running, of course, right in work and and whatnot. So to me, I think that's a really powerful reminder that culture isn't just about what you say, especially not one time, but it's about what you repeat, what you can show, what you're experiencing, what people do again and again and again, from management all the way through. It's your habits, the language, the systems that you're nurturing every day. That is where real change happens. So as we close out the show, take some time to ponder this. Where in your work or life are you unintentionally chasing urgency when what you really need is consistency and trust in the long game? Come share it with me on social media. You'll find me as the brainy biz pretty much everywhere and as Melina Palmer on LinkedIn. There are links in the show notes to make it easy as well as links for my top related past episodes and books, including Beyond Fast Ways to Get in Touch and more. It's all waiting for you in the app you're listening to and@the brainybusiness.com 539. And thank you again to Sean Brosnan for joining me on the show today. It was a delight to chat with and learn from you. Join me next time for another brainy episode of the Brainy Business Podcast. It's going to be a lot of fun. You don't want to miss it. Until then, thanks again for listening and learning with me and remember to be thoughtful.
- [51:56]
Podcast Announcer
Thank you for listening to the Brainy Business Podcast. Molina offers virtual strategy sessions, workshops and other services to help businesses be more brain brain friendly. For more free resources, visit the brainybusiness.com.