Best Of Full Interview: Jaleel White On How Urkel Saved 'Family Matters', Black Hollywood Dynamic, Bullies, Bulges + More

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Breakfast Club" with DJ Envy and Charlamagne Tha God featuring Jaleel White

Episode: Best Of Full Interview: Jaleel White On How Urkel Saved 'Family Matters', Black Hollywood Dynamic, Bullies, Bulges + More
Release Date: December 26, 2024
Host: iHeartPodcasts
Guests: DJ Envy, Charlamagne Tha God, Lauren LaRosa, Jaleel White

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1. Introduction

The episode kicks off with DJ Envy and Charlamagne Tha God welcoming special guest Jaleel White, best known for his iconic role as Steve Urkel on the beloved sitcom Family Matters. Lauren LaRosa joins as a temporary co-host, setting the stage for an in-depth conversation about Jaleel's career, personal experiences, and insights into Black Hollywood.

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2. Early Career and the Birth of Urkel

Jaleel White delves into his journey into acting, starting from a young age. He recounts the pivotal audition that led to his role as Steve Urkel, which was initially intended to be a one-episode guest spot but quickly became a cornerstone of the show.

Notable Quote:
"As long as I'm boxing, I'm gonna be okay." — Jaleel White [03:32]
(Jaleel humorously refers to his commitment to acting through boxing metaphors.)

Discussion Highlights:

• Casting Story: Jaleel describes his surprise and disappointment upon not securing the role of Rudy Huxtable on The Cosby Show, only to land the role of Urkel, which defined his career.
• Character Development: He explains how Urkel became an integral part of Family Matters, leading to more screen time and character growth due to positive audience reception.

Quote on Reinvention:
"Life is an act of constant reinvention." — DJ Envy [00:22]
(Although part of an ad, this sentiment resonates with the discussion on Jaleel's evolving role.)

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3. Experiences on Set and Relationships with the Cast

Jaleel shares his experiences working alongside cast members like Reginald VelJohnson (Harriette Winslow) and how on-screen chemistry translated to real-life friendships.

Notable Quote:
"We became like brothers and sisters." — Charlamagne Tha God [10:30]
(Jaleel emphasizes the familial bonds formed on set.)

Discussion Highlights:

• On-Set Dynamics: The camaraderie among the young cast members and the supportive environment fostered by adults on set.
• Handling Fame: Jaleel discusses navigating sudden fame as a child actor and maintaining normalcy through his parents' protective efforts.

Quote on Audience Interaction:
"Nothing makes you happier than when somebody recognizes you as Jaleel." — Jaleel White [38:37]
(Reflecting on the joy of being acknowledged beyond the Urkel persona.)

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4. Challenges and Typecasting in Hollywood

The conversation turns to the challenges Jaleel faced with typecasting and the difficulties of transitioning from a beloved character to diverse roles.

Notable Quote:
"I've never stopped working. It's a tough business." — Jaleel White [46:14]
(Jaleel addresses the perseverance required in the acting industry.)

Discussion Highlights:

• Typecasting: Jaleel explains how being synonymous with Urkel both opened doors and limited opportunities in Hollywood.
• Reboot Discussions: He critiques the traditional approach to reboots, advocating for fresh takes that respect original characters while allowing for growth.

Quote on Reboots:
"If you do anything, I am an advocate of kids. I see exactly how young performers get derailed." — Jaleel White [43:42]
(His perspective on safeguarding young actors in the industry.)

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5. Personal Life and Parenting

Jaleel opens up about his life off-camera, particularly his role as a father and how it has reshaped his priorities and personal values.

Notable Quote:
"Anything shuts down me, I'm like, I'm not giving that shit." — Jaleel White [22:08]
(Reflecting his protective nature towards his family.)

Discussion Highlights:

• Balancing Fame and Family: Managing celebrity life while being present and involved as a parent.
• Personal Growth: How becoming a father has influenced his career choices and lifestyle, including his ventures into business.

Quote on Parenting and Career:
"A lot of stuff just crystallized for her that it was like, yo, let's go out here. Let's be a working dad." — Jaleel White [23:50]

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6. Cannabis Ventures and Business Endeavors

Jaleel discusses his passion for the cannabis industry, highlighting his efforts to promote quality and diversity within the market.

Notable Quote:
"Cannabis is just something I'm really passionate about because it landed on me. That's my Plymouth Rock." — Jaleel White [55:04]
(Expressing his deep-rooted interest in cannabis.)

Discussion Highlights:

• Business Challenges: Navigating the complexities of the cannabis industry, including meeting the right partners and maintaining quality amid regulation changes.
• Branding Efforts: Launching his own cannabis strain, "Purple Urkel," and the impact of his character on his business ventures.

Quote on Branding:
"We are the house of Purple Urkel. We make the best damn purple Urkel that anybody makes out there." — Jaleel White [56:36]

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7. Reflections on Hollywood and Community

Jaleel provides insights into the Black Hollywood community during his time on Family Matters, comparing it to the present-day landscape.

Notable Quote:
"What we're missing now is everything is niche program. So very few people are always talking about the same thing at the same time anymore." — Jaleel White [37:39]
(Commenting on the fragmentation of media attention today.)

Discussion Highlights:

• Community Support: The organic and supportive nature of Black actors during the height of Family Matters versus the current fragmented media environment.
• Legacy and Impact: How the show served as a positive representation and a launching pad for Black talent in the industry.

Quote on Legacy:
"If you played Urkel so well that we know who Jaleel White is, that says a lot." — Jaleel White [40:21]
(Acknowledging the lasting impact of his character on his personal brand.

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8. Concluding Thoughts and Future Aspirations

The interview wraps up with Jaleel reflecting on his journey, the importance of evolving beyond iconic roles, and his hopes for future projects that honor his legacy while allowing for personal and professional growth.

Notable Quote:
"As long as you pleasant and you chill and you're respectful of my family and my environment, I just love being known for a good reason." — Jaleel White [39:13]
(Emphasizing his desire to be recognized for his multifaceted talents.)

Discussion Highlights:

• Future Projects: Hopes for meaningful roles and contributions to the industry that break away from typecasting.
• Personal Fulfillment: Finding satisfaction in his various endeavors, from acting to business, while maintaining a healthy work-life balance.

Final Quote:
"I've never stopped working. It's a tough business just to work in." — Jaleel White [46:14]
(Reiterating his dedication and resilience in the face of industry challenges.)

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Conclusion

This episode of The Breakfast Club offers an intimate look into Jaleel White's life, both on and off the screen. From his early days as Steve Urkel to his ventures into business and personal growth, Jaleel provides valuable insights into navigating fame, overcoming typecasting, and maintaining authenticity. The conversation underscores the importance of community, resilience, and evolving beyond iconic roles to achieve lasting success and personal fulfillment.

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Key Takeaways:

• Navigating Typecasting: Jaleel's experiences highlight the challenges of being forever associated with a single character and the importance of seeking diverse roles.
• Community and Support: The supportive environment of Black Hollywood during the era of Family Matters contrasted with today's fragmented media landscape.
• Personal Growth: Transitioning from child actor to adult, balancing fame with personal life, and exploring new business ventures.
• Future of Reboots: Critique of traditional reboot methods and advocacy for fresh, meaningful content that respects original characters while allowing for new narratives.

**For more insights and the full experience, listeners are encouraged to purchase Jaleel White's book, "Growing Up Urkel," which delves deeper into his life and career.

Transcript

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[DJ Envy]

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[Charlamagne tha God]

So you're her, right? You're the boxer.

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Experience. The incredible true story.

[Jaleel White]

As long as I'm boxing, I'm gonna be okay.

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A Clariss My baby going to the Olympics.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Let's go.

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Critics are calling the Fire Inside an inspirational knockout crowd pleaser.

[Jaleel White]

If I'm in train for this gold medal, I'm gonna need exactly what the man gets.

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It's a monumental achievement.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I've been working my whole life.

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[Lauren LaRosa]

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[Charlamagne tha God]

The Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Jess.

[DJ Envy]

Hilarious Charlamagne, the guy. We are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRosa filling in for Jess. And we got a special guest in the building.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Yes, indeed.

[DJ Envy]

We got Jahliel White.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Welcome.

[Charlamagne tha God]

What's up, Kat?

[DJ Envy]

How you feeling, man?

[Charlamagne tha God]

I'm doing great, man. I'm having a good morning.

[DJ Envy]

Good to see you, brother.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Good to see you, brother. You got your new book, Growing Up Urkel, a memoir. Why you do the 80s 90s R B cover on the front. Bro, this ain't even 80s. Like 76, 70s.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Don't take me back.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Early 80s, early 80s, early 80s.

[DJ Envy]

That's the Mike Jack, why this post?

[Charlamagne tha God]

You know, I did it because for anybody who's a fan of the Stefan character, they know that he was debuted in a white suit.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I said that when I first thought I said, this is Stefan.

[Charlamagne tha God]

He was debuted in a white suit. And then I love having fun on Instagram anyway. And Instagram has that meme that has all four of the. Of the greats. It was like Luther Vandross, Lionel Richie, Teddy Pendergrass, Michael Jackson. Yeah, they all Michael Jackson hit it last, but of course, he hit it the biggest. So for a black man in the 80s or born around that period, if when you put that picture on the front, it just means, hey, the contents are fire, but nobody even notices.

[DJ Envy]

On the back, I actually see you jumping around.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah. On the back, I give you the high water pants and the Urkel shoes, and nobody even notices. Nobody notices. Nobody even notices.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You don't got the glasses on.

[Jaleel White]

That's why.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, that's prob.

[Lauren LaRosa]

So you don't mind being called Stephane?

[Charlamagne tha God]

It's not even about mine. It is. Stephane saved my life. Like, just black women everywhere just choose to call me.

[Jaleel White]

Walked in. When he walked in, I was like, oh, my God. I lit up when you walked in. Does that happen to you all the time? And you were like, yeah. Because when you walked in, I instantly remember you walking on the screen and being like, oh, shoot. Like, I heard the music and everything.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That is why you heard the music and everything.

[Jaleel White]

I'm trying to tell you.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, I love it. With black women in particular. The. On the 24 episodes out of 215 that I did, they only keyed in on Stephan, and they were just relieved that I wasn't really like that.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I've always loved your story, though, because, you know, you are the epitome of, you know, taking advantage of a moment seizing opportunity.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Right.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Because you were so only supposed to be on one episode of Family Matters.

[Charlamagne tha God]

How'd that happen again? Charlemagne. I was just a black kid that wanted a Sega Genesis dog. It really wasn't that deep. My dad told me that I could get one of anything whenever I got a job because I was resisting going on auditions at this point. I was 5 foot 4. Me was ready to play basketball. We don't get in basketball talks at some point. And I really wasn't. I wasn't booking jobs at age 12 too much because a lot of the stereotypical roles, I just wasn't fitting it. My profile, I had, like I said, I had braces. I'm five foot four. And I saw this audition come through and I was like, I can get this job.

[Lauren LaRosa]

What was it? What was it? What did it say?

[Charlamagne tha God]

The description I included in the book was just, you know, nerdy character Rick. Matter of fact, I was described as a Rick Moranis type. So that just shows you what the writers room was already doing. They're casting a black kid and asking for a Rick Moranis type. So I actually read that, literally. And then I went and got the Best of Saturday Night Live VHS tape that we had in our house. And I found Ed Grimley, and I basically was doing a black kids version of Ed Grimley.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And it wasn't really a good impersonation, quite frankly, but because nobody thought that was my. My inspiration, it became. It became mine.

[Lauren LaRosa]

It's amazing. You can't trademark. I don't want to say a character, because I'm sure you could trademark a character, but the. The mannerisms of a character.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, wow. That's the voice.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Did I do that? Do you know what I mean?

[Charlamagne tha God]

We only think about this stuff in America, man.

[DJ Envy]

Did you get the second Genesis? I was always curious. Of course you got the second. Okay. Did you want to act?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Acting was just something that I just did naturally. I've been doing since I was three. So, you know, did you want to do anything that your parents got you started when you were three? It was just. It just came naturally. I didn't Resist it. And I enjoyed it. Of course, you always joined and enjoyed getting a day off of school to go someplace and. Yeah, exactly. And have some fun. But as I got to be around the age of 12, I didn't really want to act anymore. I wanted to play basketball. But once I got the show, then I started getting reps in at a different pace.

[DJ Envy]

Right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And now once you get reps in, you prove yourself good at something proficient. Like, I remember the exact episode where I'm like, oh, this is fun, and this audience is my toy. And then the episode's called the Big Fix, where I took Laura on a date for the first time because Eddie needed to pay off a bet, and I leveled this French restaurant.

[DJ Envy]

Now, before we get to.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, that's the first episode where I'm like, I can hear the audience different. I can see it in my eyes when I watch that episode.

[DJ Envy]

Before we get into that part of it, is it true that you tried out for Rudy Huxtable? That part?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, I did. That's the name. Rudy was for a boy.

[Jaleel White]

Oh, wow.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It was for a boy. So there was a debate there, and, you know, he obviously won out over the network at the end. And Keisha got the role.

[Lauren LaRosa]

And how close did you get?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, it came down to me and her. That's it. They. They auditioned us all day. I actually never forget that audition because they brought in. They always bring in, like, two or three options for each role, but they put us in one room for, like, several hours and kept pairing us and going in and out. And I talk about that in the book as well. And. And at the end, they said, hey, listen, we are pressed for time, so we will take you, you, you, and you, and the rest of you. Thank you for coming out. So you had all these crying kids just pouring out of that building that had been there all day. And I remember my mom was like. She just had a huge reaction to that. She was like, if you ever react like that to losing an audition again.

[DJ Envy]

Oh, you cried.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You was born. Oh, we. I mean, that's a cold way to lose a job when you're seven years old. Did you really understand to be picked right in front? Right in front. Because generally it happened. You know, your agent will call you or your agent didn't call you.

[Jaleel White]

Right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And my mom was never the type to call the agent also and be like, did we or did we not get the job? And a lot of parents do that.

[Jaleel White]

But did you really understand at 7 years old, like, oh, my God, I'm losing this job, this is like what this could be. You were just like a kid, and it was like, no. So you cried, but, like, what did you think?

[Charlamagne tha God]

No. Well, we were supposed to move to New York. Oh. So they were. They had already talked to my parents through our agent and everything. And my dad was trying to figure out. Because he was just graduating from dental school at the time. My dad was trying to figure out how to do this from New York.

[Jaleel White]

Right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

They had practically said, the job is yours, and then a little girl came walking in. I mean, they do that kind of stuff all the time now that I'm an adult, and I know that. But at the time, it was just. It was just very shocking. And then you become a big fan of the show, right? So you're looking at the show and it's like, oh, man, that could have been me. Right? You do it. You're doing that. But that passes too.

[Jaleel White]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Especially when you end up with your own iconic role in the future. Right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I didn't even look at it that way. Seriously. I just. During that time, Charlie, man, I'm telling you, man, it's wild to watch fame now because everybody kind of believes, like, they can have a famous moment and it should come easy to them. But back then, like, you know, if you got a chance to meet Magic Johnson, you got a chance to meet Janet Jackson in person. They were inaccessible. They were all talented. Yeah, they were. You know, they. There was an aura. Literally. I remember the time I met Michael Jordan for the first time and he crept up behind me at the Magic Johnson Midsummer Nights Classic. And it's just like, he literally had, like, this little glow around him, this black Jesus glow around him. And it's different now. It really is. So you didn't think you could be that. You see what I'm saying now?

[Lauren LaRosa]

I don't think that. I don't think there is real celebrity now.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, now, no celebrity has completely been diluted. Yeah, it really is. I'll disagree and say there's still some people who have it. I can say I can see it. There's certain people where they walk in and they have that natural it factor where it's like, yeah, okay. You just. You affect the room. You know what I'm saying? Like, even when Will Smith used to come in for the NBA All Star Games, like, when Will was in the room, it was just different.

[Lauren LaRosa]

That's his aura, though.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, that's it, exactly.

[Lauren LaRosa]

So.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But that's. But that's traditional celebrity, this stuff. Now, like I said, it's just. It could feel real temporary, and it's like, ah, you ain't got the it factor, but you got the light on you, right?

[DJ Envy]

Did the cast like you because you went from just supposed to be one episode to taking over the whole thing? So did they like it? It had to be some resentment a little bit.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It was like a kid.

[DJ Envy]

Nerdy kid coming in here, taking a shower.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It was weird at first. The kids and I, we worked it out the easiest because they had to hear a lot of things that some of their parents are even saying. And, you know when you're a kid and you're hearing what your parents are saying, you're just gonna follow suit with that. But Darius and Kelly and I, we became. We became like brothers and sisters. You know, It's. That's our puberty. So I just feel like the division really kind of took place more along the lines of the adults were the adults and the kids were the kids.

[Jaleel White]

Do you think that it was weird during that time, like, that you knew, like, you were very well aware as a kid that, like, you were becoming the star of the show, but you had to do so much stuff to kind of, like, not act like you knew that. Like, even in the book, you talk about, like, how the. The introductions were on the show, and your agent would always be like, we need to rearrange these introductions because you're the star. The world knows you're the star. And you'd be like, no, let's not bruise my mom.

[Charlamagne tha God]

My mom didn't want to do that. My mom wanted to keep a lot of things status quo. When it came to the call sheet and just pecking order, it just. It would have. It would have just disrupted the balance of the set to another degree that we didn't need. It's almost kind of like, all right, you ever notice, like, Shaq runs out last? You know what I'm saying? When Shaq and Kobe were in their prime. But then towards the end, Kobe starts running out last, and that's around the time when they broke up, too. It's just like, there's ego. There's little ego. Things that just can happen on a set that you have to ask yourself, is that the sword I want to die on? Is it worth it?

[Lauren LaRosa]

You would think that at some point in life, people would understand that y'all are a team, and it doesn't matter who the star of the team is. If the team wins, is winning.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah. But the magic words you say is you would think, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lauren LaRosa]

But I would Just, I mean, after all of these years, we haven't learned that. Even when you use the Shaq and.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Colby example, like, that's, you know, you can't change the way people are going to think when they're. When they're coming from a place of ego. You know, for me, I just, I. There was a. I did a lot to extend our run because the reality.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Was she was about to get canceled.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I know, but. Fact, I get it. I get it. But I'm like, I don't. You can say that. I don't need to lean in on that, you know, but, you know, whether. If it was keeping my hair, the cut the same way, I mean, it got to the point where I was sick of my own haircut or staying out of the gym, not working out, you know, that sucked playing basketball. And finally in my senior.

[Jaleel White]

They made you change the pants that you were wearing.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, they made me change. In the final season, it was like, no more jeans. He doesn't wear any jeans. So I was doing things that was.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I read that.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, he about to get messy. What? You.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Don'T care?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Like, go ahead.

[Jaleel White]

I mean, he wants to talk about your bulge. I want to be. I want him. I was getting there. I was going to let him finish the statement. You jumped to the bulge.

[DJ Envy]

How did I get you?

[Jaleel White]

Go ahead. You jumped on down his pants. Go ahead.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I ain't let him work it out, but it was.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Comes with a package, right, J?

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's crazy. Y'all don't get to sit here. He a wild boy. He gives it off.

[DJ Envy]

He was waiting for that one for the. So back to the bowls.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Go ahead. They changed. Bottom line. They just said no jeans in the final season.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Yeah, that was it. Oh, they didn't tell you why they.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Said no jeans in the final season.

[Jaleel White]

They said the bowls, right?

[Lauren LaRosa]

They.

[DJ Envy]

Now, they did tell you that was under the bow.

[Jaleel White]

They did tell you that. They said it was getting a little awkward to see bulge. That's what the quote said.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Jesus. They said no jeans in the final scene.

[Jaleel White]

Do they come to your parents and say that or did it come directly to you?

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, at that point, I mean, come on. I'm on set and I'm taking. I'm getting notes from producers and, you know, I need to see that note.

[Lauren LaRosa]

That's a funny ass note. To tell somebody.

[Jaleel White]

That is an uncomfortable note.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Jaleel was like, where did I leave Larry?

[Jaleel White]

I feel like you said it in private. Like, you pull my family to the side and we have a very closed discussion.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You talking about your son's boat? What?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Wild B.

[DJ Envy]

So things changed on the set because you didn't have a dressing room. Now, I'm sure you got the biggest dressing room and all that. So how has that changed? I mean, then money. I'm sure money change.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, the thing about money, which was cool, is that my mom was so petrified the show would get canceled anyway that she never bought a new car for the first four seasons of the show.

[Jaleel White]

Oh, wow.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You know, my mom was that. I think that's why I'm so passionate about the protective job that my parents did. They did so much to try to keep me attached to normal life.

[DJ Envy]

Right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You know, they didn't get new cars themselves. My mom demanded that I went to public school. I went to public school. During the entire time. Yeah. But they didn't.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Wow.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But we didn't have cell phones. We didn't have all. We had cell phone, but they were big bricks at that time. But we didn't have smartphones to invade the privacy to that degree and let everybody know what school he goes to, at least on a nationwide level. So, you know, I would pop into school, like, every two weeks to three weeks. And, you know, that was something I actually enjoyed doing, kind of like a magic trick. And, you know, because I could go in and I could take tests, I could raise my hand, I could answer questions from the teacher, and my peers are looking at me like, how do you know this stuff? It's like I study on set, too. How was school?

[DJ Envy]

Was it a. Did you ever get bullied because people looked at you?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, no, there's a whole. There's a whole thing. It was like, I. I. The first school I was attending at the time, I was the only black kid at the entire school, which was awkward, too. It was. It was. It was half Asian. It was half white, and now it's since taken over all Asian when I go back and pass that school. And, you know, that's all. You know, the usual stuff. Can I touch your hair? And, you know, not getting invited to bar mitzvahs and all that kind of stuff. And then that all changed as soon as I got on the show. Hey, you want to go to a Laker game with me? And, you know, my mom wants your agent number. She's thinking about putting me in the business, and now I'm suddenly so popular. So I left that school, and then I went to what I like to call, like, you know, the Joe Clark school, the Lean on Me Light. And in that case, I Was just. I stood out a little too much. And it also raised my hand too much. And I had a teacher that liked me and I liked Ms. Lasseter too. And you know, at schools like that, they don't like those kind of relationships. So ran into problems there. And then my mom found the school that was the porch that was just warm enough for me in three Bear story analogy. And that was South Pasadena High School. And they kind of had to sprinkle everybody. It was Asian, it was Mexican, it was black, it was wonderful. And I had a great principal named Ben Ramirez, may he rest in peace, who just kind of went out of his way to make sure that I was always welcome on campus.

[Jaleel White]

They didn't like the fact that your teacher was trying to make sure you were okay.

[Charlamagne tha God]

What do you mean?

[Jaleel White]

Like, you said that the school, you had a teacher that.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, no, no. I'm saying at hood schools you can't, you know, raising your hand a lot in class and having a great relationship with the teacher.

[Jaleel White]

Oh, the kids did like that. Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I'm gonna say, why would the school. Oh, you really a nerd, huh? Yeah, exactly.

[Jaleel White]

B, you asking a question like the.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Last two minutes of class, you come see again. See, she hit some.

[DJ Envy]

Some Delaware.

[Jaleel White]

You was a two minute.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, no, no, no, no. You're not gonna play me like that. I wasn't asking the teacher to collect the homework. Okay. I wasn't that reminded. I wasn't reminded if we had test. But the bottom line is we had a good relationship and she was teaching stuff I'd already learned at the other school. So they were hella behind the other school. So I was just like, yo, this is easy. Yeah.

[Jaleel White]

So you was in there showing off.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Come on, I'm seven. Come on. I'm in the eighth grade. You know what I grade to do that. It's awkward. Exactly.

[DJ Envy]

But did you wish you got that treatment? I remember. Do you remember the first time we met? No. You don't remember?

[Charlamagne tha God]

I don't remember. That's what you have to remind me.

[DJ Envy]

Nick's camp.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You're at Nick's camp now? Nick's camp. I remember so much about Madison Square Garden Knicks camp.

[DJ Envy]

You was in Nick's camp and I was surprised, cuz. Oh yeah, I don't remember. We were young, young. But I was surprised because I'm like, at the time, he's Steve Urkel. He's on the biggest show. I'm like, his parents put him here.

[Lauren LaRosa]

So why would he remember you?

[DJ Envy]

I'm going tell you well, no, I don't know.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I mean, I told you, they lock in love. Anybody can get it.

[DJ Envy]

Because not for nothing, I would say I had the glasses, the braces. We was on the same team.

[Jaleel White]

So you identified. You weren't him.

[Lauren LaRosa]

This is J.

[Charlamagne tha God]

White.

[DJ Envy]

I know, but I had you know.

[Lauren LaRosa]

That you were actually a nerd. He was not.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I love seeing this dynamic because no one should ever take this personal if.

[Lauren LaRosa]

They come up in here. He said I was you. No, you had the glasses, the braces.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I was following. Let me help you out. Any black man who didn't even look like me is if he wore glasses. He was called Stever.

[Lauren LaRosa]

That's true.

[Jaleel White]

Oh, envy you got close to.

[DJ Envy]

They call me metal mouth and a whole bunch of things, but I'm not going to that trauma. But the reason I say that is during basketball camp, you got into a fight.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Did I hoop that scrap with, I.

[DJ Envy]

Don'T know, some Spanish dude. Right. And I remember I was like, damn, does this happen all the time when you come to the hood because people think that you're better than them? So I was wondering if that always happened.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, when you hooping, like, people try you. You know what I'm saying? So it was like I took basketball seriously. So in between those lines, that's why I'm like, I don't even remember. I was there to play ball. How many fights did you get into if you don't remember on a basketball court? I didn't have a history of getting into a bunch of fights, but I'm just saying, like, you know, on the basketball court, people gonna try you. I mean, do you remember every frackish you got into on a basketball court?

[DJ Envy]

I kind of do, yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, wow.

[DJ Envy]

Kind of.

[Charlamagne tha God]

He lost, though.

[DJ Envy]

I lost a lot of them. Boy, I kind of.

[Charlamagne tha God]

If I don't remember him, that means I probably did pretty good in whatever we was dealing with.

[Lauren LaRosa]

So what did you and all the other Spanish kids do when y'all saw Janelle beating up Spanish? Like, nobody. I'm black.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So can we get a therapist?

[Jaleel White]

Maybe he had to pick a side.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Can we get a media?

[Jaleel White]

Maybe he started seeing. He said, either I'm going with Urkel.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I'm going my people. So which way?

[Jaleel White]

Where was you?

[DJ Envy]

I was riding with Urco. Nerds sick together.

[Charlamagne tha God]

All right, all right.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You know, another thing, you talk, but.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You didn't tell me how I played, though.

[DJ Envy]

Nah, you was. You was good. You were surprisingly good because everybody thought. Surprisingly, everybody thought the nerve was going to come out, but you was Good. We could tell that you played ball, but I remember you scrapping.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Yeah.

[Jaleel White]

What, What? Point guard. What position you play?

[Charlamagne tha God]

No. Point guard.

[Jaleel White]

Okay, so cuz even in your book you talk about having your dressing room kind of like set up like a dress.

[Charlamagne tha God]

My dressing room was cool.

[Jaleel White]

You really wanted to go to the NBA? Like that was like really it was.

[Charlamagne tha God]

About going to the NBA. I was a huge. I mean, listen, if you grew up in the 90s, the NBA just was, was different, man. It landed on your life. It was, it was everything.

[Jaleel White]

Gotcha.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So I, you know, I. Once I started gaining some influence, you know, you could do certain things. And the set decorator for our show transformed the second room in my dressing room into an actual NBA locker room. So I had all the different lockers. That's dope. And you know, that's where I would change and get ready for the show.

[Jaleel White]

Wow.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You know, did you get paid? Did you make money money back then?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, you made very good money back then.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Okay.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But the numbers back then just, they don't compare to numbers now. Inflation, it's one of my favorite things I actually have is. Is. Is my first time I ever sat on the court. I kept the ticket stub and, and I kept him with magic shoes when he gave them to me after the game. And every now and then I'll just, I'll still look at those tippers ticket stuff. Guess how much in 1991 the face value of a Laker game on the court was versus San Antonio Spurs.

[DJ Envy]

350.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Price maybe close to a thousand, maybe 700. 800.

[Charlamagne tha God]

This man knows basketball. 425.

[Lauren LaRosa]

425.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Remember back then, that's crazy, right? Yeah. For a floor. So when you put that in perspective. 1991, $425 face value on the ticket to sit on the court and you see what inflation is now. It really is like. I remember that teaching me about inflation was like, whoa, something's happening here. Because there's two inflations. There's the one they talk about to the country and then one they talk about is going on for the people that's making all the money.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I love how you describe, throughout the book, you describe yourself as a dedicated people pleaser. You said it was your mom who made you that way.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Can you expound on that a little bit?

[Charlamagne tha God]

You know, it can be good and bad to be a people pleaser because you gotta learn how to say. You got to learn how to set boundaries, but then you got to also learn how to say, yes, enough to catch blessings that are coming out of nowhere. But for me, it's always been about the audience experience that jacked me up. You know, we taped in front of a live studio audience every Friday, and, man, I look forward to that audience like you wouldn't believe. And they just become your toy after a while. So, you know, my mom will call me after a table reading, you know, every Tuesday, and it's like, what do you think of the script this week? And I was like, eh, it's okay, you know, and then there'll be certain weeks, like the Bruce Lee week, where I'm like, oh, no, get your tickets now. Because sometimes she would have to play games to get a certain number of seats in this, especially with another opposite, another executive producer's wife who would hog a lot of seats. And I'm like, no, no, no, go ahead and get your. Get your tickets for this one. I'm gonna melt this one down. So it was just always about just, you know, it. Everything. Celebrity came from a different place than it was about being excellent. It was about being on point. You know, we would shoot our show and we'd be done with a whole episode in, like, just over two hours. And I was so proud of that because everybody else on the lot, especially if they had kids on their show, it would take, you know, shows would take three and four hours, and people wouldn't even be able to see the end of the show at times. But we were now two hours flat and we were done. So I just took pride of that kind of stuff.

[Lauren LaRosa]

What about Jaleel, when he's not, you know, performing? Are you still dealing with being a people pleaser?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Nah, not as much. You know, when you have a. When you have a daughter, at least when you have a kid and you enter the family dynamic, a lot of your values just change. They shift overnight. At least they did for me.

[Jaleel White]

What was the biggest thing that shifted for you overnight?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, man, I got a funny story on that one, though, actually. I never went. You know, single parents don't date. Like, single parents prospect. They don't. They don't date. It's different. And I remember my boy was. He told me to come out and meet him at the club. You know, he had a. He had a group. At this point, I'm a single dad, and. And I hopped into my car, and at the time, I drove Aston Martin Repeat, which is a four door. And so I pulled up at the end, he comes walking over with three girls, and it's like, you know, what we doing this is before Uber. All right. This is before Uber. What are we doing? Where we headed? And then one of the girls just reached for the back door, and the baby seat was in the back.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Okay.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And the way them girls just jumped back, really? And all of a sudden, it just threw off the whole chemistry for the rest of the night. And it was just like, ah, okay. What matters more, as a dad, I knew, I'm like, I'm not taking that baby seat out. It's a pain in the butt putting them damn baby seats in. And any dad who has a baby seat knows that. So it was like, well, that's just the way it's gonna be. But that was a moment where I had to accept where I was just kinda like, she really comes first in every aspect of my life now. And like it or not, even in times when I want to be grown and sexy, it's going to affect it.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You know what? I wonder, too. Did the cast members on Family Matters, were they. Was it a level of hate and jealousy and enviness. Envious. Envious. Enviness or envious?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Envious. Envious.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Yeah.

[Jaleel White]

It was like, envious.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You know what I mean?

[Charlamagne tha God]

This is your chance to get him. Jump on him.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Now, R. In hindsight, were you really difficult with the worst?

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, absolutely not.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Okay. You know, because Reginald Johnson said that.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Okay, but. Okay, so let me make it easy for you then. How come. How come you never heard that from the kids? Kelly speaks. Darius is everywhere. How come you never heard that from the kids? Yeah, you know, it's. It's. You know, when you. When you. When you leave a show. First of all, the difference between movie stardom and TV stardom is when you're a movie star, you're still a star, even if you don't have a movie out. When you're a TV star, unless you're on tv, you're not a star anymore. And that's just the way the business treats you. So I think people go through a lot of personal trauma sometimes after a show has gone off the air. Divorces, investments, maybe they go right, Et cetera, et cetera. And it causes people to look back on things with, you know, kind of a jaded look. And it was like, man, we had fun. We did. Even the pictures I picked out for the book, you know, I wanted to show pictures of us chilling, you know, I wanted to show me Reggie and Darius, you know, chilling in Paris. When we shot two episodes in Paris, we're the only black show to ever shoot in Europe. That was a Big deal. We had this. I'll never forget, we had this giant $12,000 meal at the top of the Eiffel Tower as a cast.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Okay.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, I'm glad you asked. My mom took that bill and handed it to production because she had the clout to do that. But Joe Barry's there, Reggie's there. Well, we was balling at the top, but again, you ballin'so, you know, it's almost kinda like when you hear Scottie Pippen talking about the Bulls. Now, it's like, scotty, you can't say nothing nice about the Bulls. Nigga, you was rock stars, dog. You and Mike didn't kick it at all. Are you sure that's how you remember it?

[Jaleel White]

Have you recently talked to any of the cast? Cause I know Joe Marie Payton, she had come out and said that you guys had a little. Whatever that situation.

[Lauren LaRosa]

That's why they wanted to fight each other.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah.

[Jaleel White]

Like, can you first of all clarify that story? Because that's just a wild.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, there's nothing to clarify. Like, I'm talking about a co worker of over 30 years ago, and I was a minor. You don't think if there was any validity to that, it wouldn't have come out.

[Jaleel White]

I'm like, wow. So, no, 100% nothing happened.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I mean, 1,000%, no. Like, but I'm not. I'm not getting in the back and forth. I'm sorry. I'm just doing too good.

[Jaleel White]

I get what you said.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Getting it back and forth, you know, with a woman who's over 70, and I've been kind of, like, mentally ingrained to not fight with my elders. Like, all right, if that's the way you saw it, cool. It is what it is.

[Jaleel White]

Well, she recently said, though, on the stage, I think I forget where they were at, but the cast was there and you weren't there, and she said that, like, you know, she wished that you were there, and if you were there, she would hug you, and she kind of, you know, that whole thing. So have y'all talked? Or is it.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Why does. Why does what she have to say hold so much more validity than what my other cast members have to say? I'm just curious.

[Jaleel White]

I think. Oh, I think that the age thing does play a factor.

[Lauren LaRosa]

70 year old, black.

[Jaleel White]

Yeah, what you said. You know what I mean? I think that definitely plays a factor as well. But I think she's one of the first people that allege, like, the bad stuff that I saw come out and be like, man, we should just hug it out. I wanted to know. It made me wonder, like, have y'all talked? Like, what changed?

[Charlamagne tha God]

So the people that I talk to regularly is Kelly and Darius, and again, I don't call them Laura Nettie. So I, you know, I called Kelly about this book, you know, and we spoke extensively, and, you know, Kelly called me two weeks ago. But it's weird for us, by the way, also, when we go out and eat or anything like that, you know, we like little back rooms and stuff.

[Jaleel White]

Like freak out.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Exactly. If people saw. If people saw me and Kelly just at Crustaceans in Beverly Hills, it tends to turn into a big hey, can I get a selfie fest? Right? So, you know, like, damn, Urkel won.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You really gotta.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You gotta. So, you know, we keep it private, but I have a very good relationship with all the cast members who've ever wanted a relationship with me beyond the show. And I don't have anything negative to say about Reggie. When people ask me, who was your favorite scene partner? I'm like, the chemistry I had with Reginald Vel Johnson. I remember the episode where it clicked for us. It's called Boxcar Blues, where we were stuck in a train together with all these cows, and Steve is just getting on his nerves, and, you know, Reggie just couldn't look at me without breaking up, without, you know, without breaking character. And we just. We developed this amazing chemistry. But adults are adults, and they're going through adult things, too. And also, I'm a kid, so you know what? I'll tell you one way. Maybe I could have been annoying. I dribble my basketball everywhere, everywhere. If I was in school. Jaleel, we need you on set. Boom, boom, boom. Basketball, basketball, basketball. Well, adults get annoyed when a kid is just dribbling and bouncing the ball all over the place. Is that difficult? How old you talk about? 13, 14 years old.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I would feel like adults would have a little bit more grief.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I'm approaching it from a very self aware. Self aware, you know, standpoint. So I'm like, okay, yeah, no, that's. And I remember Joyce Webb, one of our script supervisors, be like, oh, here he comes with the basketball. Okay. You know, like. But if that's that that translates 25 years later to being difficult, I'll take it.

[DJ Envy]

I want to talk about your first kiss. Let's talk about your first kiss. Because nowadays, everybody would be getting arrested nowadays if that was so.

[Lauren LaRosa]

No, it wouldn't, because he's a guy.

[DJ Envy]

Oh, it.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Only they don't do that. To God.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Exactly.

[DJ Envy]

So break down your first kiss. 13 years old on set.

[Charlamagne tha God]

He's. He's ahead of me on this one. No, we had. We had a scene, man, where, you know, Steve and Eddie get hot at the dice table, and they're rolling the dice, and this woman, you know, is supposed to give me a kiss. Just plant one on me before my last dice roll. And during rehearsals all week, she had just pretty much given me a peck.

[DJ Envy]

It was just a peck.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, because you just go through the motions. But with that hot live studio audience there, man, she just. Yo, she gave me the whole shebang. And so when I pulled back.

[DJ Envy]

And this was your first time kissing?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah. I had never kissed a girl before.

[Jaleel White]

Have I said, how did you know what to do?

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, I didn't. I wasn't. First of all, I wasn't even planning for that. I know you're supposed to put your lips together, but I didn't know that anything else was really supposed to happen. To the end of the day. I wasn't seasoned. Gotcha. And so she does it. And my whole. My thinking at the time was, do not break character. Do not ruin a good take. You know, that's what you just kind of taught as a comedic actor and as a kid. And so when I went to my dressing room, I just kind of involuntarily, tears start coming down my face because I was just like, that was weird. And then my dad corners, meaning he's like, what's wrong? Executive producer comes back, like, what's wrong? And I was just like, you know, like, she put her tongue in my mouth, like, out of.

[DJ Envy]

I'm surprised your mother didn't want to ask.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You know, so funny. Everybody says that, but it was like my father was present and was dealing with the issue, so there was no reason to inject. And once it was revealed what happened, they all started laughing.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Let's start the men too movement.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Let's start the menu. Movement. My dad's left. My dad's left. No, do not find this woman. Do not troll this woman at all. No, I'm serious. Because it's like, that's one of the things that I'm very protective of is, you know, we have to embrace what double standards were. Leave them in the past. But it's okay. Like, I can laugh at it. I'm saying, like, from the time that it happened to my dad and the executive producer coming in to me walking back out on stage to do now the next scenes, even the hot. The crew high five. She put it on you, young fella. You hung in there, you did your thing. And it was like, it was very clear to me, all the signals that I was getting was that might have been yucky the way it went down, but apparently I'm going to get a lot more of that. So my machismo says, yeah, okay, all right, Go with the flow.

[Lauren LaRosa]

What about the trauma you went through? Because it was immediately after that scene they told you that you can't wear pants anymore.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, you know what? I see how you doing? I see how you'll be here all week. Tip your waitresses on the way out. Ladies and gentlemen.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You know what else I want to know? Was Black Hollywood more of a community back then?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Ah.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Cause you tell a story in the book about, you know, connecting with Malcolm, Jamal Warner and him putting you in the abstinence commercial and, you know, your mom being. Your mom being a fan of Malcolm. So I don't know if he was.

[Charlamagne tha God]

The extent. The extent to which Black Hollywood was putting each other on, I won't say was more of a community. There are specific people who put a lot of people on. Like Ice Cube put a lot of people on.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Absolutely.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Like that dude, just like John Singleton put a lot of people on. Like, he identified talent. That's really the dream I kind of have for myself because I picked that up back then of being able to recognize other talent and be like, oh, you got it, you got it. And that. That's a pay it forward joy. That's separate and apart from. From actually being the focus. But. But back then, because there was just a lack of, you know, cell phone communication and social media wasn't what it was. The connections were made more organically. You know, you. You wrote a number down, you gave it to somebody, you know, and. Yeah, so I will say that. I will say it was just. I don't know, it was different. I help me out on this because I feel like we connected on this.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Was it a real community or.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It definitely was. But I'm saying to the extent that I could count on somebody having the power to give me a job. No.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Got you. Gotcha.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, not. Not that at all. But to the extent of walking in the room and seeing Tichina Arnold and Tisha Campbell and they like Jalil. Yeah. It was like, okay, yes, yes, absolutely. You know, and there was also a.

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[Charlamagne tha God]

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[Jaleel White]

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[Charlamagne tha God]

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[Charlamagne tha God]

Like being a part of an exclusive club, you know what I'm saying? It was like you didn't walk into a room and see another black TV star and just sit at your table and just be like, oh, he's over there. You typically were going to get up and you were gonna, you know, you were gonna greet each other, address each other, and probably exchange information.

[Jaleel White]

Was that because there wasn't a lot of people, like, it was just like you guys were the cream of the crop. It wasn't a lot.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It wasn't even like there was. You know, what we're missing now is everything is niche program. So very few people are always talking about the same thing at the same time anymore. Like, today, all anybody's talking about from a cultural standpoint is Mike Tyson's ass cheeks. Cause we all saw that at the same time. So, you know. Exactly. So it was like, even the Stephan moment where it was just like a lot of black families saw that at the same time when it aired. So they calling each other on each other, girl, you gotta see him in his white suit. So it's a different connection back there, man. And I'm like, yeah, it was special.

[DJ Envy]

Do you get tired of the Steve Urkel character? Cause I'm sure people have to come up to you all the time and be like, say the lines.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Well, in the book, you say, nothing makes you happier than when somebody recognizes you as Jaleel.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, that makes me happy, you know, when that happens. And I kind of got saved by millennials. You know, the Google has helped me. It really has. I can hear tone, and I try to talk about that in the book. So, you know, if a Southern grandmother comes up to me and she's referencing the character, that doesn't bother me as much as compared to some guys in a bar who they having a sausage fest in the corner and we doing well over here, and they want to bring light to that. And so. Okay, I see what you're doing now. Those are two completely different things in terms of being tired of the character.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You said we doing well over here. Basically, we got all the ladies over here, every single lady. The club is with us. All right?

[Charlamagne tha God]

You know what I'm saying? So that, that, that, that, that. That part is obvious, what the dichotomy is there. But people come up to me for a variety of different reasons, man. Like, your man outside, he was just like, yo, I know about the eel stuff, but I'm here for Sonic. He's a. I did the voice of Sonic the Hedgehog for 100 episodes and that lands hugely with a lot of people. I did two episodes of Psych that people just love those two episodes of Psych. So for me, it's a conveyor belt of people acknowledging me for different things. And as you get older, like I said, with my focus being on my daughter, I'm a game show host now. I'm just like, look, as long as you pleasant and you chill and you respectful of my family and my environment, I just love being known for a good reason. Because in this day and age, you could be known for a real sucker reason any day. Like, it's wild. The sucker reasons you could be known for.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You know, it's interesting what you said, even about being black. People all can coming down on one moment because I think about that, even with you as a star, right? Like, you have to be a certain caliber of star for us to know your real name.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Right?

[Lauren LaRosa]

You know what I'm saying? Like. Like for you, for you to play Urkel so well that we know who Jaleel White is, that says a lot.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I appreciate it.

[Jaleel White]

You know what's crazy, though? For a long time, maybe because I was so young, I didn't know that Jaleel White was your real name. I thought that that was another person outside.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You didn't have Internet.

[Jaleel White]

I did, but, like, I was so young, I just. I don't know, I was confused. I thought it was then I knew to step on. Then when I started hearing Jaleel White, I'm like, oh, maybe this is another Persona that he's taking on. And then I got old enough to really understand, like, characters and, like, it not being really you and like all that. And I was like, oh, okay. That was just like a me moment. Yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But I'm just glad the light went on.

[Jaleel White]

Thank you. But speaking of. Right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You got that Internet fixed. You kidding me?

[Jaleel White]

My AOL doll up. That was back in them days. Ok. That was Netflix.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That was Netflix this weekend.

[DJ Envy]

That was Netflix this weekend.

[Jaleel White]

Speaking of, though, I know in the book you talk about the meeting that you had with the exec about remake or the spinoff, the reboot, your version that you wanted to happen, in my opinion, was way better. I don't know if you want to say it. You want people to read the book, but was way better than what they had pitched to You.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Thank you.

[Jaleel White]

I guess we have to talk about it because I want to know, will we ever get that? And could you do that on your own?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Listen, first of all, you can't do it on your own. That's the thing about television that people have to respect. You know, it's the only art form I feel, that still has gatekeeping still very much in place. And you can either be bitter about it, or you can fight the good fight and look for the person that's gonna be your champion. That's just. It is what it is. I was never offered a reboot. I always wanna make that very clear. And even my vision for the show that I have, it's not about me. It's about three dimensional characters that would actually resonate and translate in 2024. Because I worked for the producers who coined the phrase jump the shark. Fonzie jumped the shark. He jumped over a shark. Right. Those are my producers, the exact same producers. So you're not going to invite me to jump the shark again? I was offered a blind contract and half my pay of what I got for the last episode. And there was no consideration. I mean, I. There was no consideration given to the adults that actually, you know, have such a large opinion over what terms they would return to. I'm like, the way they were being discussed was, well, you know, Harriet and Carl will come by and they'll visit the new family every now and then. Hollywood doesn't really. They engage talent when they need talent, they pay talent when they need talent. And. And this isn't even a black thing. I don't want this to turn into a black thing. I'll hear guys like Chris Pine or whatever who's, you know, he's like, I don't know what they're gonna do next with Star Trek. Like, I love playing the character, but when they call me, they call me. So I'd love the opportunity to make the show that, that I envisioned that was never turned down. It was never pitched. I was just offered a blind contract and around that they were going to develop the reboot.

[Jaleel White]

There were two versions, though, correct me if I'm wrong. Right, because you said one of them you wanted to do like, what's the Netflix show with the kid, the little kid that we follow? He's super smart. Yes. Young Sheldon.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, yeah.

[Jaleel White]

There was one version that was kind of going to be like the young Sheldon from like a different perspective. And then there was another version where it would be. And now you're an adult and you are in a Relationship. But then Myra is still around at that point or something. Wasn't there two versions?

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, I'll simplify it. You know, I really feel like it could be like a young rock, to be quite honest. The only difference is, you know, imagine if the young rock had started off famous and then gets into reality. You know, you still want to keep it light, you know what I'm saying? But I just. If you do a half hour comedy, where the story's gonna come from, you know what you. They literally just used to make it up back in the day, you know, and they would take stories, too, from old sitcoms and Happy Days, whatever, and they dust them off and they just, you know, update them a little bit. You can't do that in 2024. You're gonna watch for one episode and you're gonna turn that off. I asked a reporter recently, I said, well, in the traditional reboot that everybody thinks that they want, where Steve and Laura get married and have a kid that's just like Urkell. Would you watch that? And he said, yeah, for about four minutes. I said, okay, thank you for being honest with me. If I do anything, I am an advocate of kids. I see exactly how young performers get derailed. I want to push the agenda. I want to push the legend for a kid to come play a future version of me, whatever that turns out to be. That kid's got to be able to get invited to the Golden Globes. That kid's got to be able to get invited to the Emmys, and he can't look back as me, looking back at me, and I'm a stain on his career. You know what I'm saying? It was like, I will point this out, but I won't say names because I don't want to even make them feel bad. But, like, the kids on Fuller House, they don't work. Fuller House, the reboot, they don't work. The adults that put them in that role, they knew they wouldn't work in prestige television, in prestige film, because now casting directors will say, oh, oh, those are the kids from Fuller House. We want somebody, A fresh face, et cetera, et cetera. And I promise you, as parents and as kids, they didn't go into that project thinking that that was gonna be a blight on their career. As soon as the show was over, they didn't go into that. I wanna make sure anybody that I work with, no, they go in with open eyes. This is what we stand to achieve. And it was so awesome watching Will Smith give it up to Quincy Jones after all these years, when Quincy passed. Because Quincy touched his life in a positive way with the Fresh Prince. He never had to look back on the Fresh Prince like it was this show he needed to get away from. So I don't know. That's my take on how I feel about reboots and opportunities.

[DJ Envy]

But let me ask you, Urkel, I was gonna ask. Was that a stain on your career where you had to lose Urkel, because people always looked at you when you did roles?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Again, I don't look at it as a stain. I've never stopped working. It's a tough business just to work in, you know, is it easier for some with better reps and different imaging? Yeah. When I think of Harry Potter or Al Bundy, I think about those guys and those characters, but they had better reps in different images, and it hasn't slowed them down at all. As far as the TGIF people are concerned, I like where I've landed. You know, I've. I've never stopped working. Have I have always gotten the dream job that I wanted? No. But I talk about it in a book. A couple jobs, one in particular that I wanted, that went on to become the worst film that year. It's like, whoa, be careful what you want. So I. I just. I don't know.

[DJ Envy]

It.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It. Like I said, when my daughter got here, man, a lot of stuff just crystallized for her that it was like, yo, let's go out here. Let's be a working dad. And it's a beautiful thing to come home with a check to take care of your kid. And you're doing it in a way where you don't have to give up your damn dig. Dignity.

[Lauren LaRosa]

That's right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It's that simple.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You mentioned Will Smith. Will Smith, you said, was the first influential black person to hire you to do something outside of family matter.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Break that down. How did y'all have a relationship?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, I had seen Will. You know, I would always cross paths with him with NBA stuff. And, you know, Will invite me to the office, everything. When he was at his offices on 3rd Street, I saw Will coming a mile away. Just like, I could identify, you know, just like I talk about Ice Cube identifying talent and stuff like that. And I. I will actually just share the story, as a matter of fact, that I'm like, oh, I never would have shared that. Not to violate your privacy, but I remember Charlie Mack having me over to his dressing room when he was shooting 94. And I was just a curious dude. I love reading Scripts, I love just devouring film. And I was in his dressing room and he had a script on the table, and I asked to go. I was checking it out, and he said, oh, that's just another sci fi movie. And I'm. I'm not gonna do another sci fi movie after this one. And I went to visit him again after that, and like a couple weeks later, and. And when I got to the set, he wasn't there. And Charlie was like, I'm sorry. Yeah, Will was supposed to be here, but, you know, Steven Spielberg sent a helicopter for him. And I'm like, oh, okay. Well, that's a good reason for him to not be here to receive me. And then months and months later after that, Will was coming out with Men in Black, and then it clicked.

[DJ Envy]

That was the script that you read for Beta Bay.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But he said he wasn't doing another sci fi movie. So I guess that helicopter ride must have changed some opinions. So I just had this really cool relationship with Will. He was always open doors back then to me. And when he called me on the set, he called me to be on Fresh Prince, Bel Air. It just meant a lot to me because he made it his personal business to put me on the show.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I got two more questions. One, when did Family Matter? Did you jump to Shark?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, man, we probably jumped the shark somewhere around the sixth or seventh season.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Would you remember what episode?

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, I don't remember the episode. It just. It happens gradually, you know, you start going. You just start going into Porta Potty and coming out as too many characters. You know, before you know it, I was Elvis. I was, you know, we. We sending whole families to Paris and come back by standing on a teleportation device.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I think when you moved in with them.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I never moved in with them.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You never moved in with them?

[Charlamagne tha God]

I never moved in with the Winslows.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Oh, I thought you moved. I thought your parents moved.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You ain't got to lie to kick it. I never moved in with him.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I thought your parents went away and.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Nah, I never moved in with them, though. Oh, I never did. It was about. Like I said, it was probably around about. About the six season, just to be honest.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Where was you living when your parents.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I was always an extra neighbor. I was always. They never. That was the thing again. Back then. They never showed Steve's parents. They always kept Steve's parents this big mischief.

[Lauren LaRosa]

But they referenced it, though. They said your parents moved to Russia or something like that.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, they never. They would always reference my parents. My parents were treated the same way. Do you remember you ever followed Cheers? Yeah, yeah. Remember Norm's wife, Vera? They never showed Vera, so they would always talk about his wife at home. And that was the way you treated it back then? They never showed the Gooch on Different Strokes. They always talked about the Gooch. So they treated family matters, the character, my parents, the exact same way. You couldn't do that in this day and age. This day and age wouldn't take that kind of just constant referencing Mystique. They'd be like, no, no, no, bring in the parents and make sense of this.

[Jaleel White]

They're gonna be all on your Instagram.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I really thought you moved in with the window. No, that's crazy.

[DJ Envy]

No, now you never. That I was watching an interview you did and you said you never got invited to none of the Hollywood parties.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, no. I mean, I did. I went to a lot of nice parties, but not none of the. Like the stuff that started gaining a lot of steam on. On. On social media, like, you know, the ROC Nation brunch or. Or obviously, you know, I know you talking about my man, you know, the Diddy parties or whatever. Like. Nah, nah. Organically now.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Did you say Reginald Johnson used to get invited?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Stop. You gotta calm down. You gotta.

[DJ Envy]

You gotta listen.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You gotta calm down. You can't. You just.

[DJ Envy]

You ever seen him around?

[Charlamagne tha God]

We just. We're gonna slow it down for a second. You know what I'm saying? Because sometimes you can just be driving too fast, so you're not paying attention to the. To the, you know, to the speed limits. To the speed. Exactly. We're in a 35 zone right now.

[Lauren LaRosa]

What happened to Judy, man? Know how Judy just walked upstairs?

[Charlamagne tha God]

I talked about it in the book.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I know, I know, but I know you don't want to give nothing to the listeners right now.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I mean, L. How do you think I covered it in the book? Was I fair? Yeah. Was I fair? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cuz.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Cuz you. What? You. I mean, but you.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But you laughing about.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I guess because she didn't really have a role, so it's like you. I get. You know what I mean? I get what you're trying to say.

[Jaleel White]

I didn't get to that part in the book, but I'm inferring. I'm reading between the lines. Or was it that they didn't think she was good to stay on the show?

[Lauren LaRosa]

She didn't have a role, really? That part of the family didn't matter.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Jesus.

[Jaleel White]

Oh, my God. So in the book, how do you pick it Up. Look, I'm only a couple chapters in, but. But not to give it all away, but just some of it. How do you cover when you ask, were you fair? Did someone tell you you weren't fair in comfort?

[Lauren LaRosa]

I wasn't wrong.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Thank you. I just, like I'm saying, I said.

[Lauren LaRosa]

A fair, kind of threw me off. He wasn't wrong.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Okay. All right. You know, there were a multitude of factors that went into her departure from the show that I blame all on her mother. But there were. But as a performer, they weren't giving her storyline and she wasn't the best at delivering a joke. And so, you know, sometimes they would give her material and it would just fall flat. And if you fall flat in run throughs, they gonna rewrite you. And, you know, we're kids back then, so, you know, kids, that's the thing. You can't roast each other nowadays, at least not in public. But trust me, kids are still roasting each other. That's never going to go away.

[Jaleel White]

Right?

[Charlamagne tha God]

So, you know, we'd be sitting in the background and be like, and she blows the layup. You know, it was like, you know, and it's just like, you know, you can only mess up so much and be arrogant about it in a fur coat and a Mercedes too. Before somebody says, enough of this. And don't forget my producers. This is a story that precedes my show. They famously fired a woman named Valerie Harper. We had a show called Valerie and the show became the Hogan Family. And Tom Miller, may he rest in peace, walked onto the set and said, you are done. And in one file swoop, change the name of the show from Valerie to the Hogan Family and put the focus on Jason Bateman. And people forget those kinds of history.

[Jaleel White]

So why they didn't just iv Judy then why didn't just bring in somebody else?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Because they didn't. They didn't feel like they needed the character. Like they. We didn't have social media. So they were like, she's already only in one scene. You know, we've written her down as much as we possibly can. There reaches a point where the corporation does the corporation thing. It was like, well, how much are we paying her? Right, okay, well, just save the money. And you don't have to answer to social media either. And the thing that I do like, where I like to address it with sensitivity is, you know, and I talk about that. I say, look, the first miracle we have in our lives is who you born to. You know, some people were born on third base. You know, and in this situation, I really felt like, you know, Jamie was born to a mother who put herself before her daughter, and she had ideas of grandeur that weren't necessarily very realistic. And it sucks for Jamie that she has to wear that scarlet letter for the rest of her life. And I hope that Jamie finds peace outside of show business. To be quite honest, you know, this show business can start to make you think that this is the only way to make money, this is the only way to live. Like, if it didn't. I talk about that with Jonathan Brandis because he passed away and he took his life and I just. I was very close to him at that particular time, and I saw signs of someone that was really putting too much emphasis on what this business meant to his existence on Earth.

[DJ Envy]

I got one last question. I know you gotta go. You were heavy into.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Do I have to go? I mean, I'm being.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, they said 10:00. Yeah, they said 10:00. Now, did you jump into cannabis early?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, man. Listen, cannabis is just something I'm really passionate about because it landed on me. That's my Plymouth Rock. It just landed on me. You know, I've been trying to get at the cannabis game for probably about, shoot, eight or nine years now, to be quite honest. And it's just, it's been very challenging to meet the right people that are placed where they need to be placed, that care about quality, they care about diversity, because they're going to change these laws and play with this, These laws in such a way that the big guys are going to come in and they're going to scoop it all up. And just the way they just played us with bitcoin, it's going to go down all the same way. So I'm lucky to have met some really cool cats. We're not nationwide, but. But my guy, the Wolf Group, they gonna. We're gonna have some fun, but.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You got a dispensary or scran.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, they named a the Streets, then back in 2003, named a strain after my. After my old character. I don't even know if it was after my old character or maybe somebody was just inspired. They were watching an episode of Family Matters, so they call the strain Purple Urkel. I've been name checked everywhere. Rap songs, TV shows. The name that Purple Urkel's been name checked everywhere. And people think that I made money off of it. So my brand name is. It's Purple. I always like to let people know and. And that actually came from a joke where it was like when people see me, they think they're being discreet sometimes where they go, oh, it's Urkel. And I always just wanted to have something to say back. Like, no, it's purple. So that's what. That's fine.

[Jaleel White]

I see what you did.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah. So that's what it's. So that's what it's purple. The brand even stands for. But we are the house of Purple Urkel. We make the best damn purple Urkel that anybody makes out there.

[DJ Envy]

Did you bring something with you?

[Charlamagne tha God]

God, what'd I tell you? What? I'm gonna put.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Bring the drugs next time.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Bring the drugs. Bring the drugs. What I tell you? I left it at the damn hotel. But I'm telling you, I will find you, dawg. I'm here for the win.

[Jaleel White]

My mom has a sativa person. I don't have time for one more.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, jump in.

[Jaleel White]

Myra Michelle Thomas.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yes.

[Jaleel White]

Every time.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Be careful now. That's my girl.

[Jaleel White]

I know. I was gonna say, every time you talk about her, it's very emotional for you. And, like, I feel that that's your girl, right? Or was. I wanna know off camera when you guys developed your relationship that we then saw on camera. Cause it was so believable. What was that off camera relationship like? And like building that for the characters on camera. Like, how did you guys. Cause you were so young.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah. Nah, just, you know, Mich started off playing Malcolm, Jamal Warner's girlfriend on the. On the Cosby Show. And so she was always older than me. So even though she was so small and bubbly and, you know, big, but she was.

[Lauren LaRosa]

She.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I looked at her like a little sister. I'm like a big sister. Yeah. And we just had this amazing chemistry. My mama loved her too. So that always. That. That made things easy. And she just made it her business to always want to. Always want to hook me up with somebody. And she introduced me to Martha's Vineyard and, you know, spending summers there. And we just had an amazing chemistry. And she was just down. Like, everybody knew Michelle. Everybody knew Michelle in the music business. Everybody. Music. Just everywhere we went, people loved Michelle. And unfortunately, she passed away to stomach cancer. And that was just a very emotional time because we just knew what she was going through as an actress. And that's why I always like to remind people, too, you know, they always try to apply this typecasting narrative to me. I said, man, listen, this is a tough business business. If you really want me to make you a list of people who are, you know, trying to get to Their next opportunity. I can. And you'll see it doesn't have as much to do with typecasting as you think. So during the time when she went out, I just. I wish that there had been some better opportunities for her, you know what I'm saying? Like, Carl Weathers just passed away, and, you know, Mandalorian was a nice thing for him, man, to have on the way out.

[Lauren LaRosa]

So we want people to buy the book growing up Urkel. But, you know, it is. It is interesting to see how much of the love y'all created off camera. Yeah. You know.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah. No, it was. It was real love, man. Like, you know, I get it. Yes, it was bumpy in the beginning, especially with the adults and the parents of some of the kids. But that's my puberty. You know, Darius is out here wiling at times. You know, he and I, we slide each other's DMs. But that's my brother. I mean, we've all had, you know, brothers or whatever, frat brothers or college friends, you know, bugging out or whatnot. But you don't abandon that cat. You still take it as collar. Y'all just laugh it off. And that's what my relationship is with. With Kelly and Darius. It's very brotherly and sisterly. And, you know, I'll always defend our entire cast, actually, for the work that we did.

[DJ Envy]

That's what it is. Well, Jaleel White, ladies and gentlemen, growing up out right now. Make sure you pick it up. And thank you for joining us.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It's been a long time.

[DJ Envy]

You supposed to come here, like, years.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Ago, but I would run into y'all, the airports and stuff.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I saw you on the plane, you.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Know, I always give credit to a brother, though, who'll see me at, you know, who's famous, and he'll see me at the airport and be like, okay, how you gonna act? And he was cool.

[Jaleel White]

Charlie is the famous person in this situation between you and him?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, you know, I've had other people. I mean, Howard Stern. I remember Howard Stern was sitting in coach behind me, flying to New York. I was flying New York to do his show. And then I got up, and I actually took him some dessert. And on the flight, and he's like, oh, I can't believe you came back here. And then when I did the show, he was like, okay, I knew you a cool dude. Cause you came back to say, what's up to me and Coach. And I was like, yeah, man, I'm flying.

[DJ Envy]

I was Howard and Coach.

[Jaleel White]

You might have just need to get.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Exactly. And that's. So that'll happen to famous folks too. Where it's like, yo, sometimes you get stuck.

[DJ Envy]

I figured how it makes so much money.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, no, this is before. This is like before. This is before private parts.

[DJ Envy]

Sometimes you just got to get home.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Yeah. Before private park.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So he had loot, but he didn't have the bag. He was like, you better get your ass back to work.

[DJ Envy]

He helicopter, I think for building the building now. Well, ladies and gentlemen, it's Jaleel White.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Breakfast Club. Now.

[DJ Envy]

Good morning.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Wake that ass up in the morning.

[Charlamagne tha God]

The Breakfast Club.

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[Charlamagne tha God]

You wake up, put on your Ray Ban meta glasses. You're living all in.

[DJ Envy]

You realize you need coffee, so you.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Say, hey Meta, how do I make.

[Coca Cola Advertiser]

A latte brew two shots of espresso?

[DJ Envy]

After Meta AI gets you caffeinated, you're.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Ready for some beats.

[Comedy Advertiser]

Hey meta. Play hip hop music.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You head to meet some friends but can't remember the place. Hey Meta. Call Eva Ray Ban Meta glasses.

[DJ Envy]

The next generation of AI glasses.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Just say hey Meta. To harness the power of Meta AI shop [e-mail] smart glasses.

[Coca Cola Advertiser]

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[Charlamagne tha God]

18/ Terms Inc. Mrs. Meyer's clean day.

[Comedy Advertiser]

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[Coca Cola Advertiser]

How crispy are the new deli Mix? Crispy Quesadillas.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Let's see.

[Coca Cola Advertiser]

I'm gonna pop one in the microwave. Yeah, Delimax Crispy Quesadillas are crispy. Even from a microwave, I can already smell it. Heads up. If you hate loud crunching, you might want to mute. So crispy. Like, barely hear myself think crispy. These should come with a warning. If this crispiness is making you hungry, get to your closest grocery store. For Deli Mex Crispy Quesadillas in the frozen aisle.