Best of full interview: Kirk Franklin On Kevin Hart Jokes, Representing Faith, Being Imperfect, Digital Series + More

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club – Kirk Franklin Full Interview

Date: December 24, 2025
Host: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God, Lauren LaRosa
Guest: Kirk Franklin

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Episode Overview

In this special "Best of" episode, The Breakfast Club welcomes back gospel icon Kirk Franklin for a candid and humor-filled conversation. Franklin reflects on his journey as a performer, the pressures and expectations of representing faith in the public eye, his ongoing mission to make church and faith accessible, navigating criticism (especially at awards shows), personal growth, mentorship, and his latest ventures including the digital series "Den of Kings." The dialogue is transparent and lively, blending personal anecdotes, spiritual insight, laughs, and heartfelt moments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nervousness and Performing Under Pressure

• BET Awards Honor: Kirk opens up about feeling "nervous" and anxious before performing at the BET Awards, despite his experience.
  • “I'm always nervous. Didn't we talk about that too? ...Every project, every album, every song, every moment, it's my first. Like I'm a new artist.” – Kirk Franklin [04:28]
• Root of Anxiety: Franklin connects his persistent nerves to childhood abandonment and the psychological impact of always “chasing ghosts.”
  • "You're always looking for that good job, baby, that mama didn't give you...” – Kirk Franklin [05:00]

2. Authenticity and Representation of Faith

• Breaking Stereotypes: Franklin emphasizes the importance of being approachable and relatable, desiring to deconstruct stereotypes about faith leaders being out of reach.
  • “I just think that it stands in the way of people feeling like they can be part of the family too.” – Kirk Franklin [07:31]
  • Lauren LaRosa: “I didn't know you were so, like, just normal, cool...” [07:14]

3. Navigating Public Criticism and Expectation

• Kevin Hart Jokes: Discussion of Franklin's reaction to Kevin Hart’s jokes during the BET Awards and handling judgment from the "super religious.”
  • “I love Jesus, but I'm not Jesus... I live in a world where things are going to be funny. I'm going to stub my toe...I'm not going to speak a tongue in the middle of the night, I'm going to cuss.” – Kirk Franklin [08:28]
• Balancing Humor with Representation: Kirk highlights the pressure to be a “perfect” role model, and his commitment to being real and enjoying life.

4. On Judgment, Imperfection, and Community

• Church as a 'Hospital': Kirk shares a standout line from his digital series "Den of Kings," viewing Christianity as a place for the imperfect, not a country club.
  • “We are patients, we're not doctors. Christianity... is supposed to be a hospital.” – Kirk Franklin [10:56]
• Performance Anxiety: Franklin links the pressure to "look" holy to people faking it— "you become a human doing and never human being." [11:28]

5. Awards Show Controversies and Bridging Cultural Gaps

• BET Gospel Category: They discuss criticism received for including artists like Glorilla and Lil Baby in gospel categories.
  • Kirk focuses on his mission: “I'm trying to tell the world about Jesus...Everything else is just noise.” [15:42]
  • Tammy supports: “God uses everybody...He can use anybody...so you can pay attention, to bring you to God and Jesus.” [16:46]
• Scriptural Analogies: Kirk references the disciples’ discomfort with outsiders using Jesus’ name, drawing a parallel to current gatekeeping in faith communities. [17:10–17:49]

6. Personal Life: Family, Reconciliation, and Regrets

• Relationship with Son & Father: Franklin discusses his complex and evolving relationships with his son and his recently found biological father.
  • “I would want there to be real healing in his life before...anything that could even be more damaging.” – Kirk Franklin (re: his son) [26:26]
  • On finding his father: “It is more me...when you live your life so long on your own, it's almost like...I ain't got to get my door no more. What does that look like?” [27:54 – 28:41]
• Living with "Limp": Kirk relates his emotional wounds to enduring a limp so long you forget it's there. “We’ve never really lived well. We just live okay.” – Kirk Franklin [30:19, 30:42]
• Balancing Career and Family: He honestly admits to regrets about missing family time due to his ambition and traveling.
  • “You have many regrets, and you have confusion...because people are blessed by your sacrifice but then they also hurt by your sacrifice.” [32:29, 34:29]

7. Mentorship, "Den of Kings," and Vulnerability

• Digital Series ("Den of Kings"): Franklin’s new project features honest dinner-table discussions with Black men on fatherhood, leadership, and life’s challenges.
  • “It's just been an amazing moment...It's like men's therapy.” [25:00]
  • “I try to lead with vulnerability and transparency myself.” [25:54]
• Mentorship Style: Franklin says mentoring now happens through real-life interactions, not always in traditional or structured forms. [34:57–35:03]
• Navigating Social Media Criticism: He shares the struggle and necessity of detaching from negative online commentary post-awards shows.

8. Final Reflections: Kindness, Humility, and Making Space for All

• On Human Kindness: Franklin summarizes the core lesson he hopes people take away:
  • “Humans have to be more kind to humans...We should be praying people make it instead of complaining how they walk it because you next.” [37:22–38:46]

9. Choir Building and Influence

• Recruitment: Kirk reveals he actively seeks lead singers (“I go after artists”), hence his choirs' exceptional talent. [39:02–39:29]
• Impact: The hosts express their profound personal connection to Franklin’s music and his role in making faith relatable across generations.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kirk Franklin on Perfection:
  “I love Jesus, but I'm not Jesus. I live in a body that ain't his yet...I am not a perfect person. So when something's funny and it's good and funny, I want to laugh.” [08:28]

• On Church Community:
  “Christianity is supposed to be a place that's a hospital. It's a hospital. It's not supposed to be a country club.” [10:56]

• On Kindness and Judgment:
  “We should be praying people make it instead of complaining how they walk it because you next.” [38:16]

• Personal Growth:
  “You learn how to live with limps to the point that you forget is broken...a lot of times, we don't even know often what healthy is.” [30:18–30:42]

• On his Digital Series:
  “Dinner conversations with Black men...it's like men's therapy. It's just been an amazing moment.” [25:00]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Kirk Franklin on Nerves & Performing: [04:11–06:51]
• Discussing Stereotypes of Gospel Figures: [07:14–08:13]
• Kevin Hart Jokes / Living Faith Publicly: [08:17–09:46]
• Church, Perfection, and Welcoming All: [10:56–11:57]
• BET Awards, Gospel Category Controversy: [14:31–17:10]
• Family, Healing, Son, and Father: [26:17–31:42]
• Regrets about Career vs Family: [31:49–34:45]
• Mentorship and "Den of Kings": [19:04–26:05], [34:45–36:14]
• Social Media and Criticism: [36:26–37:22]
• Ultimate Message on Kindness: [37:22–38:46]
• Choir Building Approach: [39:02–39:29]
• Expressing Gratitude & Closing Prayer: [39:31–42:02]

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Tone and Style

Throughout the interview, the tone is honest, humorous, and deeply relatable. Kirk Franklin answers questions with humility, authenticity, and a willingness to expose vulnerable parts of his story—often punctuated by laughter and earnest encouragement, both challenging and uplifting listeners. The room’s camaraderie is evident, making for an engaging and accessible conversation about faith, family, struggle, and legacy.

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This summary covers the full depth and warmth of Kirk Franklin’s interview on The Breakfast Club, making it accessible to those who may have missed the episode while preserving the spirit and substance of the conversation.

Transcript

[Lauren LaRosa]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Kirk Franklin]

What a matchup we got, y'.

[Lauren LaRosa]

All.

[Kirk Franklin]

This is that classic HBCU vibe.

[Angela Yee]

Non stop action.

[Kirk Franklin]

The band is rocking and the crowd lit. Chance echo drum beat, everybody showing that school pride game like this. Yeah, it calls for an ice cold Coca Cola. Ah, crisp and refreshing. That's a game changer right there. Yeah, that taste always hits the right note. Just like the band at halftime. And just like that, we're back at it. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere and an ice cold Coca Cola.

[Angela Yee]

That's a winning combo.

[Kirk Franklin]

No matter the sport, no matter the yard. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

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[Angela Yee]

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[Kirk Franklin]

That ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

Morning everybody. It's Dej Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne the guy. We are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRosa is here and we got a special guest in the building.

[Tammy]

Yes, we do.

[DJ Envy]

Kirk Franklin, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome.

[Kirk Franklin]

I feel like I live here.

[Matt Rogers]

That's fine.

[Kirk Franklin]

That's a good thing. I feel like I live here. What is this? What is it like the 20,000th time? I'm good with it. I'm just humbled by that.

[DJ Envy]

I'm glad you're here. Well, first of all, welcome and congratulations for being honored at the BET Awards this year. How was that feeling?

[Kirk Franklin]

Oh, nervous. Had bubble guts.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Really?

[Kirk Franklin]

What?

[Tammy]

You are the performer of Kirk.

[Kirk Franklin]

You're always on the road, bro. Do you how I am always nervous. Didn't we talk about that too?

[Lauren LaRosa]

Yeah, I couldn't believe it either when he said it to me. Yeah, we talked about at the media room.

[Kirk Franklin]

Yeah, I'm always nervous if I go speak. If I go to a nursing home and perform, I'm nervous if I go speak to kids. Yeah, I always have. Yeah, I'm over.

[Angela Yee]

Really?

[Tammy]

What about it makes you nervous? Like what is it? What are you thinking about?

[Kirk Franklin]

Is. I think that, you know, there's always. First of all, I think that it has served me well is because it's never normal. I'm never comfortable. I'm always wanting to do my best. I'm always, you know, like I'M always concerned about every moment. You know, will it be good enough? Will it be accepted? Will it be. Will it be light? And so there's never a moment where I'm ever dialing anything in, you know, like, everything for me is my first. Every project, every album, every song, every moment, it's my first. Like, I'm a new artist. I'm a new. I'm a struggling artist every time, and I think a lot of it. And, you know, y' all probably just even attest this. All the guests that you've had that have come from traumatic backgrounds, you know, childhood abandonment, adoption, and all that, is that I think that you are always chasing ghost. Got it. You're always chasing ghosts. You're always looking for that good job, baby. That mama didn't give you, that you didn't. That you didn't have in those formative years. So, yeah, every moment is. Is. Is nerves and new. And so at the be. Yeah. BT Awards, I'm. I'm about to lose it backstage. I'm about to pass. I'm like, wow. And then. I didn't know I was going last until like a week before. Remember, we talked about that, too. So. So I didn't know I was going last.

[Tammy]

Yeah, I was mad you went last. I was mad. I said, you put somebody like that in the front or the middle? Cause it was so late.

[Kirk Franklin]

Well, yeah, but that. But.

[DJ Envy]

But we stayed up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I know.

[Tammy]

We did stay up.

[Kirk Franklin]

Wow. That's kind of y'. All. But what I'm saying, though, is that you feel even more pressure. It's like, how am I going last? It's like, you know.

[Tammy]

Cause you Kirk Franklin, though.

[Kirk Franklin]

But I'm the gospel guy, and so you don't think of your genre having a space like that. You don't, you know, and you don't even expect it, like, you know. Yeah, it's almost like it's. It's an honor for even the genre to be acknowledged and even part of the ecosystem. Right. But when I found out that I was going last, I mean, yeah, brother. You didn't want to be sitting by me.

[Tammy]

Pressure was on, huh?

[Kirk Franklin]

Well, no, I was letting them go.

[Tammy]

So Teyana Taylor and Aaron Pierre was smelling the lure, and I lied.

[Kirk Franklin]

I was like, oh, man, who did that?

[Tammy]

Oh, my.

[DJ Envy]

Kirk Franklin, the Jack Gassy.

[Tammy]

Wait.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Did you have gas when you were sitting next to me? I ain't smell nothing.

[Kirk Franklin]

Well, I wasn't nervous talking to you.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Okay, great.

[Angela Yee]

Oh, that's good.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Right?

[Tammy]

Right.

[Matt Rogers]

Because you.

[Tammy]

I'm not gonna Lie.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I've been telling people since I met you. It's my first time meeting you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I.

[Lauren LaRosa]

It threw me off. I didn't know you were so, like, just normal, cool and yeah, like, so.

[Kirk Franklin]

What does that mean?

[Lauren LaRosa]

I said you a real.

[DJ Envy]

She was like, he's a real n.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I never felt like that about somebody.

[Kirk Franklin]

Do you think people, like, what are people expecting for me to come in? Floating on clouds?

[Tammy]

Yes, a little bit. That's what people.

[Kirk Franklin]

And I think that's unfortunate. And I think that we got to find ways to still deconstruct that. I just think that it stands in the way of people feeling like that they can be a part of the family too. You know what I'm saying? Like. Like everybody can pull me and be part of this God love wagon. You know what I'm saying? It's like. And so it's always challenging for me when there's this worth, where there's this ideal of what being a person that loves Jesus looks like. And so I want to be the lowliest, the most humble, the most realest person so that you can see, man, that everybody's supposed to be on this bus. And we also be riding together, man.

[Tammy]

That's right.

[Kirk Franklin]

We don't always know where we going, but we ride now.

[DJ Envy]

During the BET Awards, they kept showing you when Kevin Hart was doing comedy, and then the whole twist was Kirk Franklin was upset with all the Kevin Hart jokes. And I'm like, they must not know Kirk.

[Kirk Franklin]

So, bro, I was like, oh, it was so good. It was so good. He's good, he's hilarious. But then I'll also give you this side. And you know, and I. And, And I want him cap. Right? It's. I think that the biggest thing is for me is that I always have to be careful because I know that there's a community of the super religious that if I enjoy something too much, then it comes across like, well, why he not. Why he not praying for him? He need to walk out. And so there's this dichotomy that you live in when you say that you represent faith, that it's like, I love Jesus, but I'm not Jesus. I'm not him. I love God. I live in a body that ain't his yet until he cracks the sky and make me more like him. And until then, I live in this broken house and I live in a world where things are going to be funny. I'm going to stub my toe and I'm not going to speak a tongue in the middle of the night, I'm going to cuss. You know what I'm saying? You push me too hard, it's going to be hands, you know, I mean, I'm, you know, I, I, I am not a perfect person. And so when something's funny and it's good and funny, I want to laugh.

[DJ Envy]

How do you stop yourself from laughing? Because he kept going, and, you know, Kev, Kevin's gonna keep going till he gets. And you were pulling that, that laugh.

[Kirk Franklin]

I felt like I was laughing.

[Tammy]

You ain't wifey.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

You were.

[Tammy]

But it still was trying to keep that sense of, like, all right, like, you was, like you were cracking, but you were, like, still containing yourself, you.

[Kirk Franklin]

Know, and it, because it was funny. It was, it's funny. He's funny, he's good. And so you get to see them perfect, Kirk.

[Tammy]

But I think also what people don't understand is God don't want us to be perfect anyway, either. Like, I just, you know, Jesus, we not posed to be perfect. That's why he made us in his image. But it's like if he put us here and he know everything we gonna do before we do it, like, he already knows. It's like, we are not him. We are of Him. You know, we're not meant to be perfect. We're just meant to follow Him.

[Kirk Franklin]

And in that we always should be pursuing to be better.

[Tammy]

Better.

[Kirk Franklin]

We want to be more like him. We want to be able to be changed in ways. There are things that I see in myself that I want to grow, grow and look more like him. But I'm not on your watch.

[Tammy]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

I'm not on your calendar. And how I get there.

[Tammy]

Right.

[Kirk Franklin]

I am on his. And so I think that if we, like I said something on this, this new digital series I have on called Den of Kings is that we have to understand, man, that, that, that, that we are patients, we're not doctors. And Christianity is supposed to be a place that's a hospital. It's a hospital. It's not supposed to be a country club. It's going to be a place where people that don't have it together could come, and everybody can feel comfortable that they know that they don't have it together.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Right?

[Kirk Franklin]

But when people come to us in our community and they feel like that we are more concerned about their habits and their ways being changed before our eyes. And you're not being changed yet. You're not doing, it's like that, that then people create performance anxiety. That's where the mask comes, is because If I don't look the way that you think I should look soon, then now I gotta fake it till I make it. And then you never. And then what happens? Then you become a human doing and never human being. Gotcha.

[DJ Envy]

No, now they also. I'm sorry, I was gonna say back to the BET Awards. They were mad at one of your outfits that you wore.

[Lauren LaRosa]

They were mad at every. I was about to say that.

[Kirk Franklin]

Like one of the outfits I had on this year.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, they said that you apologized for it. It was a. You wore like a tank top or some shirt.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Oh, no, that was prior to. We talked about that too at the media room. But why?

[DJ Envy]

What they mad at the outfit? I mean, it wasn't pom pom shorts. You didn't have a thong on. It was nothing like that.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Cuz they tried to say bro was twerking. Oh, sorry, didn't mean C. Bro. They tried to say Kirk Franklin was twerking. Yeah, sorry, bro, I don't think I can. Yeah, sorry, hold up.

[Kirk Franklin]

But pause, pause. What's wrong with bro?

[Tammy]

I don't know.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You just feel like it's so crazy how like naturally you just feel like the homie. And I'm like, it's Kirk Franklin.

[Kirk Franklin]

Why would I not? See, we got to work on that.

[Lauren LaRosa]

It's low key. Kind of like watching you at the BET Awards and seeing energy.

[DJ Envy]

No, your mic went out.

[Lauren LaRosa]

See, God didn't want me to call you bro.

[Tammy]

That's what I'm saying.

[Kirk Franklin]

That's what happened when said, don't you.

[DJ Envy]

Call him Franklin bro.

[Tammy]

But see, that's the thing though. Even when Kirk met my son, it was. It was crazy, right? Because I'm. Until you might come back on. I was saying, like we, I. We were on the same festival in Miami for Miami Gardens, and my son was so starstruck and Kurt made him feel. Feel like he was cool. So he go back to my mother, his grandmother, and like I met Kirk Franklin and he was cool. He said, you know, and. And he said, bro, like, bro was cool. And my mother here she go. Cause you know, she a deacon in.

[Lauren LaRosa]

The church and she.

[Tammy]

You don't refer to no Kirk Franklin.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I said, ma.

[Tammy]

No, like, Kirk is really cool. Like relax and chill. When I just get outside, my son like, he bro. Like, that's my bro.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I felt like my grandmother came in this room. She probably gonna call me after this interview and be like, you dare you Not a man in a pulpit. You better not.

[Kirk Franklin]

But see, that's too much. That's too much. Pressure. That's a lot. And I'm going tell you, I. I can be candid. I don't think we're ever going to deconstruct. A lot of that is because for a lot of people, they need that to be able to be connected to their faith.

[DJ Envy]

Wow.

[Kirk Franklin]

They need the stained glass windows. They need the pastor to look a certain way. They. They need the church service to make them feel that this is my connection. This is what holy and righteous looks like for me. And I need that to hold on. I don't need none of it. All I need is Jesus. Gang, gang. That's all I need. All I need is Jesus. And I'm, you know. And again, I ain't talking about the European version, but with the blue eyes. I'm talking about, you know, the Jesus that died for everybody's sins. At any moment, everybody can come to the table, everybody's at the foot of the cross because we all stink in there. That's what I need.

[Tammy]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Know what we ask Lauren.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I was gonna say, talking about the award show, though, there were a couple things. So first, people were upset at in a whole, like, they felt like. Yeah. I mean, I thought it was a great performance, but I think people.

[Kirk Franklin]

It.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I think it just goes to, like, the people that you bring onto stage and how you. I have a quote here. I think it was. Diedric had and was upset about Glorilla winning the award, but they also called. He also mentioned, like, things being, like, a mockery of worship and, like, things of that nature. Do you get tired of that conversation at this point or at this point? Are you so used to it? It's what.

[Angela Yee]

Be real, bro.

[Tammy]

Gang, gang, gang, gang, gang, gang, gang, gang.

[Kirk Franklin]

Own everything I love it is what it is.

[Tammy]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

It is what it is. God bless him and God bless them.

[DJ Envy]

How did you feel about that? Because some people were mad that in the gospel category, it was Glorilla and yourself. It was Little Baby in Yourself. It was Rhapsody, not your quote, unquote, typical gospel songs. What did you think about that? Glorilla won her first BET Award was a gospel record. What are your thoughts on it? Primarily gospel artists.

[Kirk Franklin]

I'm trying to keep my eyes on the prize. Trying to keep my focus on the things that really matter. I'm trying to tell the world about Jesus. I'm trying to tell the world that God so loved the world that he gave his only son. Whoever believes in him should not perish and have everlasting life. That's where I'm at. That's where I'm at. Everything else is just noise. That's what I'm at.

[Tammy]

I feel like you meet people where they are. You've been doing that since I've been. Since I was a little girl. Like, you know, I. I feel like there has been, like, when you. When you say you meet people where you are, it's always been said you meet people where. Where they are. Right. Christ and Christianity and church don't look the same for everybody. So if, like, a Glorilla can speak to us, the youth, you know, and you stamp it and we like, oh, we know Kirk Frank. This is who all of our mothers and grandmothers and aunts played growing up.

[Kirk Franklin]

And.

[Tammy]

And she. Because she is the bridge. You know what I mean? Like, she would be the bridge for that. And God uses everybody like, he can use anybody. He can use a bum on the street. He can use a homeless person. He can use, you know, anybody to lead, you know, so you can pay attention to. Bring you to, you know, to God and Jesus. I feel like it's not. It's not. Why is that frowned upon? You know what I mean?

[Kirk Franklin]

There's a text in scripture. There's this moment where the disciples were talking to Jesus about people that were not part of their crew that was also using his name and trying to do things in his name. And they were upset about it because they were not part of the crew. And so they came to Jesus. They pull up like, yo, man, you need to go pull up on a boy name. They over there saying your name and trying to do your name. And we need to. We really need to squash that.

[Tammy]

And.

[Kirk Franklin]

And. And that Jesus was like, yo, if they over there and they are still trying to do good things in my name, even though they're not part of our crew, I'm not going to squash that. It's because they are still telling people my name.

[Tammy]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

And so I feel that it is the same that today that Christianity has for so long been a country club, and you've had to have a membership. You've had to look a certain way. Like, like, like, like, like. Let me tell you one thing that's funny to me is that people always say to me, and even Tammy sometimes is like, you know, like, y' all look younger now than y' all did when y' all first started. Let me tell you what a lot of that was. We were assimilating to what the church. If you were young in church, you had to look old to be thought of as serious. Like, they didn't take you serious if you did not look a certain way. So you dressed. Oh, you had them long, you know, you had the long jackets, you know, the square toe gators, you know, and.

[Tammy]

Tammy probably had the big lampshade hats.

[Kirk Franklin]

Big lampshade, you know, first time I took it to Kojit contestants convention, we were 25 years old. And, you know, God bless Church of God in Christ. Love Church of God in Christ. You know, but there's a certain aesthetic that sometimes you have on. Tell me, 25 years old, got a big old hat on, gloves. And she said. She said, I felt like trick or treat, you know. You know, because we were trying to assimilate. You're trying to do all the things to be accepted as a young person. And so now, I mean, we're just comfortable being who we are. And I just think that it is really, really important to just put people back on the focus of what matters. He's what matters.

[DJ Envy]

That's right. Now, what was the concept of. Of Den of Kings? How did. What inspired that?

[Kirk Franklin]

Bro, first of all, you gotta talk.

[DJ Envy]

To the mic, bro.

[Kirk Franklin]

First of all, I'm. Bro, bro, bro.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Don't give me trouble. They already gonna drag me for saying it once.

[Kirk Franklin]

That's the motif of the show right now. Bro, bro, bro. And it's a beautiful thing. Beautiful thing. But one thing that I'm very excited about is that I just had this idea that I've always been told that people enjoy the way I hold court during dinner. Like, when you go to dinner with me, we gonna chop, you know, we gonna chop about politics, you know, we're gonna talk about religion, sex, we're gonna talk about whatever and get it in. And so during my birthday, I came to Atlanta. Well, I went to Atlanta, had dinner with some of my good guy friends, and they were like, yo, bro, you need to turn this into something, you know, because I've had really great conversations. So with that, I just thought about having dinner with black men and what that could look like in that conversation. And so the first episode I done in Atlanta, great food, chef, beautiful house. You know, you had Country Wayne, you had Lou, you had Duvall, you had dc.

[Tammy]

Dc, Young Flyer.

[Kirk Franklin]

Yeah. It was an incredible moment. And the respect response has been crazy.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I've been telling everybody I know to watch it.

[Kirk Franklin]

It's been amazing, hasn't it? Like, were you shocked at the response?

[Tammy]

Yes. Especially with DC and how he gets deep and how y', all, man, I love that. Cause that's my brother.

[Kirk Franklin]

I know, I know.

[Tammy]

You know what I mean, he loves you. Yes.

[Kirk Franklin]

He loves you.

[Tammy]

Yes. Yes.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You all know this time of year is my recess season. New energy, new plans, new ways to grow my brand. And if you're trying to start 2026 ahead of the game, like, really ahead, now is the time to get moving. For me, Shopify has been the platform that keeps my whole merch business tight. As a creator, as a businesswoman, I need my tools to work hard. And Shopify is like having a chief of staff, a personal assistant, and a co founder all in one. And look, I always tell other women building their own brands, especially small, independent black creators, don't overcomplicate it. Whether you're running a side hustle or you're trying to run a full storefront, selling to your community or around the world, Shopify takes the guesswork out of everything. Shopify also like, my favorite thing about it is they teach you as you grow, you can look up anything, get information on anything, and it's simple. They give you, like, easy one, two, three steps. I used to juggle 10 different logins and apps. Now one platform I manage my store, sell online, sell on social, even tag products right from my phone, wherever I am. And Shopify Sidekick. Listen, you keep hearing all about AI. Let me tell y', all, this AI is a lifesaver. It gives me reports, content, ideas, helps me edit images. It's literally like having a smart assistant in my back pocket guiding me to my next move. So let's be real. It's time to stop thinking and start doing. And there is no better way to do that than Shopify. Use our link shopify.comb e-n now to start getting serious about building your future.

[DJ Envy]

Hey, what up, y'?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All?

[Tammy]

It's DJ Envy.

[DJ Envy]

And the holidays are here. The time of year that's all about connecting with loved ones in person or over the phone. In fact, hearing someone's voice can evoke a similar emotional response as a hug. And while most of us can hop on a video chat to really bring that connection to life, using tech isn't easy for everyone, especially some of the older folk in our lives. AT&T has been doing something special here to help. They offer digital literacy workshops that help older adults learn how to use technology to do things most of us take for granted, like video conferencing and sharing photos. Take Nancy Shand. She joined one of AT&T's workshops to learn how to video chat. For the first time this holiday season, Nancy won't just be hearing about family gatherings. She'll be a part of them, sharing stories, opening presents, and making memories all through a screen. Nobody should have to go through the holiday season alone, so be sure to connect and stay connected to your loved ones this holiday season.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Connecting changes everything. At and T the holiday season is the most wonderful time of the year, filled with joy and laughter, a little bit of the festive chaos we all secretly love. From long shopping lists to travel plans to family dinners, it's a lot happening all at once. But this season, Coca Cola wants to remind everyone that the magic isn't in the hustle and bustle. It's finding joy in the little moments, like laughing over old memories, playing holiday games, or taking that first sip of an ice cold Coca Cola that cuts through all the holiday frenzy and brings the cool comfort to your soul. Because that's the good stuff. The joy hiding in plain sight, the sound of laughter mixing with the clink of glasses, the calm between the songs and the stories. And when things start to feel like they're doing the most, that crisp, delicious taste of Coca Cola can be the reset everyone needs. Just a little reminder that the season isn't about rushing, it's about refreshing. So wherever the holidays take you, slow down, take a breath and savor the moment. Enjoy a Coca Cola refresh your holidays.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

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[Tammy]

Know, even country Wayne. You know, like just you gave them that safe space, that vulnerable place where they can talk about things that they don't usually talk about and they talk about, but they don't go in depth with it. You know what I mean? Like, you provide that and I love to see that.

[Kirk Franklin]

And it has been. I mean the response has been overwhelming. Like it has been so, you know, we've got another one on deck coming up soon. And it's just, you know, dinner conversations with men. With black men. And I'm humbled and I want to thank everybody that's been tuning in and watching it. And it's just been, it's just been an amazing moment.

[Tammy]

And it's like men's therapy. It's like watching a men's therapy session.

[Kirk Franklin]

It's crazy.

[Tammy]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Lauren LaRosa]

It's each episode about fatherhood, there's going.

[Kirk Franklin]

To be different things that men different conversations. Next one is about being a boss.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Okay.

[Kirk Franklin]

And you know, we are going to have so many conversations that are just really, just kind of peeling back and just having a really, really, really great conversation. You gonna pull up on one? Of course. Don't play whenever you need it.

[Tammy]

No.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I think envy and charlamagne, I think y' all would be so amazing in the sit downs.

[Kirk Franklin]

Like it would be, it'd be fire.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Because it's like a real conversation. Non judgmental as well.

[Kirk Franklin]

Non judgmental. Non judgmental. And I want everybody to feel safe. And I try to lead with vulnerability and transparency myself. So I try to create the environment that makes you feel safe and comfortable.

[Tammy]

Will there ever be a episode with you and your baby boy, your son? Hmm.

[Kirk Franklin]

It's not that I haven't thought about it. It's because it's still a work in progress.

[Tammy]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

I.

[Kirk Franklin]

Would want there to be real healing in his life before there is anything that, that puts a spotlight that could even be more damaging.

[Tammy]

Got it to his process.

[Kirk Franklin]

You know, I want him whole.

[Tammy]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

I don't give a heck about ratings. You know, I was gonna say something else, but I just want him whole. And so whatever is going to be for his best healing. And a lot of times that that happens when the cameras are cold.

[DJ Envy]

What's your relationship now with him?

[Kirk Franklin]

It's, it's still work. It's, it, it, it's, it's still work. Now the beautiful thing that has happened is, you know, I ran into my biological father after all these years, and here's what's the most incredible thing about God. Everything that my oldest son needs, that's his profession.

[Tammy]

Your dad's profession. Wow.

[Kirk Franklin]

Biological father's profession. And I think you can unpack that.

[Tammy]

Yeah, right, right.

[Kirk Franklin]

Everything that my oldest needs. So my biological has come in because that's his grandson. So he has a personal interest in, in, in, in, in in him being whole. And it's been amazing. It's been. Well, it's been amazing to watch, but it's still a, A Process.

[DJ Envy]

And how was that relationship with your biological. How's that?

[Kirk Franklin]

Let me say this. He's an amazing man. He's an amazing.

[DJ Envy]

I love that you can say that.

[Kirk Franklin]

Oh, he's an amazing man. But it is more me. It's more. Because I wasn't looking for a father. He wasn't looking for a son. I mean, you know, I mean, we weren't looking, remember? I thought I knew who my father was, and he died of cancer back in 17. So now it's me. Like, when you live your life so long on your own, it's almost like a. It's almost like a woman who has been single for a long time. And if the guy said, don't get that door, and you kind of like, what? You know, you know, you've got to kind of process, okay, I ain't got to get my door no more. What does that look, you know? It's like, oh, what does that look like?

[Lauren LaRosa]

No, I do understand.

[Tammy]

She don't have a man.

[Lauren LaRosa]

No.

[Tammy]

But even.

[Lauren LaRosa]

First of all, she understands.

[DJ Envy]

That's what I said.

[Tammy]

She understand.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Even before the single thing, I was talking more about you, your dad, and you not feeling like you were missing out on anything, kind of sort of. I. Skipping past. It's a liar.

[Kirk Franklin]

It's so good how you did that.

[Tammy]

God loves the truth. And I'm letting you. She don't have a man. She don't have the best relationship with her dad. So she love.

[Kirk Franklin]

Would you like me a man or dad? I don't. I'm not trying to be. How old are you?

[Lauren LaRosa]

I'm 33.

[Kirk Franklin]

Okay. I'm 55. So I'm so a man or dad. If I find anyone, it may be a zad.

[Tammy]

I mean, you might need a zan.

[DJ Envy]

But she doesn't have necessarily the best relationship with her father as well. So how did you get to the point where you can have that relationship? I mean, she texts happy Father's Day, but she doesn't have that relationship.

[Lauren LaRosa]

That's not true. Me and my dad have built a relationship, but I met him at 14. But to your point, because I was so full with what I had, I had my stepdad, my mom, my grandmother. I didn't know until, like, still now, I don't. Like, I be forgetting his Father's Day, and it's no shade to him. It's just I've always been full to the point where I wasn't looking for it. So when he got introduced into my life, I was like, oh, okay, so this is my Dad, I gotta call him. I gotta talk to him.

[Kirk Franklin]

I gotta.

[Lauren LaRosa]

And it don't always be that all the time. It's not a natural thing for me to do, so. You're the first person I ever heard explain it where it made sense to me of like, you just weren't looking for it because you didn't know you needed it.

[Kirk Franklin]

And mine wasn't that I was full, mom. Was that I was numb.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Oh, maybe I was numb.

[Kirk Franklin]

Maybe so, you know, I don't know. Like, I'm not a professional, but. But I do know that sometimes you do learn how to live with limps.

[Tammy]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

You learn how to live with limbs to the point that you forget is broken, you know, And I think that because of where we come from as people of color, we've had to live so much of our lives as people live with. With limps, as people, just because of just. Just. Just the deconstruction of our homes and families and backgrounds that a lot of times, we don't even know often what healthy is.

[Tammy]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

It's because we've had to just live okay. We've never really lived well. We just live okay.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Have you had those moments with your biological dad where like, y' all are talking or y' all in the midst of something and you're like, oh, man. Like, I feel it. This is what there were. This is what was missing at some point, or I could have used this at some point. Have you had that?

[Kirk Franklin]

No, no, no. I. I have lived so much with deficiencies that I'm still just trying to out.

[Tammy]

Figure.

[Kirk Franklin]

Figure out. So. So a lot of times if. If I'm around him, I'm just trying to figure out how to be. Sometimes I'm. Sometimes I'm even sitting there having to just breathe just to keep my anxiety, but, you know, because it's so far.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

It's so foreign. And I'm not. You know, I'm not proud of these things.

[Tammy]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

But I'm not going to get up here and cap with y', all, like, you know, and give y' all the. The, you know, the little house on the prayer fairy tale. Oh, man. God has blessed us and. And we're all together now. It's like, my God, I'm still trying to figure life out. It's a new addition that I'm still trying to figure out the space for it.

[DJ Envy]

Do you regret what you've done in gospel music because it took so much time away from your family?

[Kirk Franklin]

That's an incredible question. I think that any man in My humble opinion, that is ambitious and driven will always look and have regrets on how the people around them have had to suffer because of that.

[DJ Envy]

Because you, yeah, your family suffered, but.

[Kirk Franklin]

You brought joy to people.

[DJ Envy]

You probably saved a million and one lives with your music and your dance and the word. But you might have hurt a couple in the family because you weren't there. So how does that balance out? And you know, as a father, that works a lot. I feel that sometimes it's like, damn, should I be home during this time? But I gotta pay bills.

[Lauren LaRosa]

See Dennis Kings. Cause y' all talked about this on the show.

[Kirk Franklin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ooh, boy. You know, you have many regrets. You have many regrets, and you have confusion. It's because it's almost like if you were not driven, if you were not a dog, if you didn't have the attitude, then you wouldn't have been what you are. But you also know that many around you, whether it's your wife or your kids, that they've suffered a lot, that they've gone through a lot, because it comes with a heavy price. And I think that for me, mine also has another level of kind of dichotomy, is because you also don't want to. You don't want their kids faith to be. I don't want having to do with Jesus, because Jesus was the dude that kept my daddy away. So I'm trying. You know, you've also tried to have that nuanced space in that, too. Now, the beauty of my children, it's their mother. My children are great because of their mama, Tammy. Tammy has. Tammy is like. She just that Midas touch, you know, she. But then her mama was that Tammy's mama's dad. Tammy's mama's like that with me, you know, just that. That Midas touch. And she knew I didn't have a mama, so it's bam. Just a modest touch. But, yeah, you live with a lot of regret. You live with a lot of guilt. You live with a lot of questions. You live with that internal war of. Of. Of missing things and. And wondering what it would. What. What it would have been more like for you to be at home. But then at the same time, you also. That dude that wakes up in the middle of the night with dreams and ideas and ambitions and songs, you know, like, I wake up in the middle, like, with songs, and, you know, I'm at a basketball game and I got to step outside to put something in my phone, because. A song. Because if that song don't work, then I Can't pay for that school. I can't pay for that college. I can't pay for that new car you want after you graduate. It's like, you know, there's that tension. It's because people are blessed by your sacrifice, but then they also hurt by about your sacrifice. Yeah. And I don't know all the answers. I just try to show up and be honest. Gotcha.

[Lauren LaRosa]

What's your mentorship to other people look like these days? Because I know Denny Kings. I felt like when I was watching it, it was that, like, you were mentoring these men, but they just came together randomly. Do you have, like, a set group of people that you're mentoring, and do you take the time to do that?

[Kirk Franklin]

Maybe mentoring right now in these days and times does look more like that. Maybe it doesn't look as traditional.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Okay.

[Kirk Franklin]

You know, and is. I don't know. I just tried. Whenever I try to show up, wherever I am, I'm always trying to be the book that people need to read. And so whatever that looks like, I'm always available to do may not always look in the traditional form. It's because sometimes in traditional forms, like, I remember doing a youth camp. I did a youth music camp for the hood back a few years ago, and it just didn't go well. And the reason why is because what I noticed is that if Steph Curry does a camp, if Steph Curry does a basketball camp, and you can figure, you probably can dig this envy. Kids that come to a basketball camp, they're not looking for Steph Curry to get them in the NBA because they know that it's still a process. They know a coach and a team. So Curry can do a basketball camp and show love, give out some treats, whatever, but a daddy is not pulling him to the side going, yo, man, you think you could talk to a team for my boy where when I do a music camp, demo tapes, and everybody, you know, it's like they see my world more accessible, so I'm not getting a chance to really mentor. I got a whole bunch of people just kind of want to be put on.

[Tammy]

Right, Right.

[Kirk Franklin]

And so that didn't go well for me that, you know, I want to be able to plant seeds and help you, but I'm not here trying to put you on. Yeah. And so what I love.

[Tammy]

I love that you said social media is not evil. You know, it's. It's broken people that use it as a tool of evil.

[Kirk Franklin]

Yeah.

[Tammy]

Right. So does commentary on social media affect you at all?

[Kirk Franklin]

Yeah, it can. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think anybody be lying if they say. And I think that we all try to do our social media fast and we try to pull back, you know, like after the Beach Awards, I was like, I'm not reading nothing. I want to read nothing. I want to have it. Yeah. I don't want nothing. You know, and then, you know, a few days later, you fight yourself and look at it.

[Tammy]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

Man. Pleased about Jesus. Yeah. You know, so, you know. Yeah, you, you, you, you find that tension and you try to do the best. I really believe y'. All. And I know y' all gotta wrap me up real soon, man. I gotta believe. I believe that everything that we discuss can be summarized in these major points of. Humans have to be more kind.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

To humans that we. We. Here's the illustration before I go right. If you are on an island and that island is now slowly sinking into the water and the only way off that island to the other piece of bigger land is this rope, this tightrope, and everybody has to walk across that tightrope. Now why, mind you, they're walking over water that is shark infested, right? So if you fall off that tightrope, but that's the only way to get off this island is this tightrope. Everybody that is getting on that tightrope, if you're sitting there standing there watching them because you know your turn is coming up next, you're not going to be sitting there criticizing how they're getting off on that tightrope. You're not going to be going, look at her feet.

[Matt Rogers]

Look at the feet.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

She.

[Kirk Franklin]

I didn't. Walking on it, right? Look, look at that. You're not doing it because you know why you're not doing that? Because you know you next. So you sitting there going, please make. Oh, God, please let her make it.

[Tammy]

Please.

[Kirk Franklin]

She made it. She made. Because that gives you hope that you can make it. That's what life is. It's sinking and we're trying to get off. And there's only way. There's only one way. And. But we're criticizing each other while we're trying to get off. That's the only way. There's no boat. There's nothing. The only way off the sinking island is this thin, difficult way. We should be praying people make it instead of complaining how they walk it because you next. And the church said, amen.

[Tammy]

Dang. Well, dang.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I was.

[Tammy]

Let me do one more question. How did you. Listen, you got some of the strongest pipes coming up out of your choirs. Like, I'm talking about, like, everybody was like, a lead singer. Like, everybody. How did you find these people?

[Kirk Franklin]

That's how I do it.

[Tammy]

That's how you do it.

[Kirk Franklin]

I do it. Is I look for lead singers individually. Is I go after artists?

[Tammy]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

Is I look at people that I see in artist in them. Come rock with me. And that's what I do. And that's why they're so amazing.

[Tammy]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

Yeah. So. But that's dope that you caught that.

[Tammy]

Since I was little, I'm like, yo, everybody can not just sing, but everybody can sing. Like, he could have had, like, everybody do their own solo.

[Kirk Franklin]

Yeah.

[Tammy]

Crazy, man.

[Kirk Franklin]

No, no, no. Thank you for that.

[Tammy]

But I want to say I love you so much. You. I've been inspired since I was, like, just so young. Just those long mornings my mother popped your CDs. And for every CD we had, you know, I grew up on you, and I love you, and I'm so happy that I got to meet you.

[Kirk Franklin]

Wow. You know, this is so crazy.

[DJ Envy]

This is the first time you met him. Because he said.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Second time.

[DJ Envy]

I met him before, he just walk.

[Angela Yee]

Right.

[Lauren LaRosa]

But it is kind of crazy. Me and Kirk Frank Franklin, because you've been in our household are literally. I know. Word for word. I know that. Like everything. Yeah. My whole life. So meeting you was just like. So I'm happy it's Kirk Franklin. Like. Okay.

[Tammy]

And it is your presence, though. So I thank you so much just for all of your work and everything that you. That you've done, you've contributed to. Just to my household and my. And to gospel, the word of God, everything. Thank you.

[Kirk Franklin]

That's kind of you. Thank you for having.

[DJ Envy]

Well, Denna Kings, you can check it out on YouTube. New single. Do it again. We're about to play that.

[Kirk Franklin]

Do it again.

[DJ Envy]

And we have to leave with a prayer. What's wrong with you?

[Lauren LaRosa]

No, I was call you ask bro.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

To pray for you.

[Lauren LaRosa]

First of all, he prayed for me at the media room as well, too. Okay. I am always covered in prayer. Thank you. All right.

[DJ Envy]

Covering your wig, too. But that.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You see, Shay, you. I need you to pray for not even a wig. Exactly.

[Tammy]

She don't wear wigs no more because they talk you to about them. So they didn't talk them right off the head.

[Kirk Franklin]

Are we including praying for Zaddy or are we not?

[DJ Envy]

She needs a zaddy, too.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Are you allowed to say that to God? Go ahead. I can't. I feel like I can't say it.

[Kirk Franklin]

I'm being funny. I'm being funny. Man. Man. Father. Wow. Man. Thank you so much that you are just the most kindest, most patient, creative of of them all. Thank you, Lord, that you constantly just forgive us when we mess up and that you are always wanting us to win, but because when we win, it makes you look great. Father, we know that the world is crazy. And Father, I want to thank you for these three soldiers, for the four soldiers and how they are doing their best to try to plant seeds of goodness in the earth. Just watch over their families, watch over their lives. If we've ever needed you before, we need you in the world now. Please break down the walls of religion so that we can be able to see the light of your son. And I'm talking about your son. S O N And Father, we want him. Him to be glorified in our lives. We are far from perfect, messed up. And we love the fact that you take the lemons and make lemonade in our lives every day. Thank you for not giving up on us. We want to make you proud, want to make you happy. In your name, Jesus. Amen.

[Tammy]

Amen.

[DJ Envy]

All right. Well, there you have it. It's Kirk Franklin. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.

[Kirk Franklin]

Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop? Voted PCMag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere. And Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iHeart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag Reader's Choice Used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Tammy]

At Hill's Pet Nutrition, we know that pet parent guilt is real. Leaving too long, playing too little. New homes, new babies. Waking them up when they look so comfy. Running out of patience, running out of treats, running the vacuum. You can only do so much. That's why the There's Hills Science led nutrition to help you give more love than humanly possible. Because you're only human. There's Hills. Find the right [e-mail] ScienceDoesMore this is.

[Kirk Franklin]

Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Matt Rogers]

And I'm Matt Rogers from the very same podcast. And guess what?

[Kirk Franklin]

It's the holiday season.

[Matt Rogers]

And you know what that means. Holiday parties, Beau.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Holiday parties.

[Kirk Franklin]

They're the best. But there's always the stress of what.

[Matt Rogers]

To wear, what to bring easy solution. Okay, bring a bottle of Casamigos.

[Kirk Franklin]

Casamigos.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Wow.

[Kirk Franklin]

That is the move you can make. Casamigos Mules or Casamigos Espresso Martinis or Casamigos Crab. And don't forget about Casamigos Margaritas.

[Matt Rogers]

A Casamigos margarita is the perfect cocktail all year round.

[Kirk Franklin]

Casamigos is just the perfect gift that keeps on giving. And as the saying goes, anything goes with my Casamigos.

[Matt Rogers]

On second thought, a holiday party might be in order.

[Kirk Franklin]

That's a great ide.

[Matt Rogers]

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[Lauren LaRosa]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.