Best of full interview: Pastor Jamal Bryant On 40-Day Fast Against Target, Black America's Success, Politics + More

Summary

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The Breakfast Club – Best of Interview: Pastor Jamal Bryant on 40-Day Fast Against Target, Black America’s Success & Politics

Podcast: The Breakfast Club
Host(s): DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God, Angela Rye
Guest: Pastor Jamal Bryant
Date: December 24, 2025
Episode Theme:
A timely, energetic interview with Pastor Jamal Bryant focusing on his 40-day “fast” (boycott) against Target, why faith leaders should be vocal in politics, generational shifts in Black American activism, and the economic power of united action.

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Episode Overview

The hosts welcome Pastor Jamal Bryant to break down his call for a nationwide 40-day “Target Fast” among Black churches and communities. The discussion delves into how religious institutions must adapt to the digital age, the interconnection of activism and the Black church, and the practical and philosophical challenges in building Black economic power. Bryant addresses internal debates among Black leaders, generational rifts, and encourages constructive, united action.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Adapting the Church to Modern Culture

• Bryant details the lag in church adaptation to technology and culture:
  • “Culture changes every four years. Church culture changes every 20. So the average church is 15 years behind schedule… social media really is that bridge to make the church relevant to a generation that's disconnected.” — Pastor Jamal Bryant (04:21)
  • Streaming and social media are essential to reach youth; pandemic forced many churches to modernize or shut down.
• On generational divides in church engagement:
  • Traditional versus digital worship is a real divide, but Bryant contends physical church is still important for mental health and community.
  • “This is the loneliest age… People are connected online, but disconnected from people. So a lot of people are depressed… that sense of community… is still necessary.” — Bryant (07:27)

2. Being Outspoken and Facing Backlash

• On leadership and controversy:
  • Bryant embraces controversy as part of courageous leadership: “If you want to be liked, sell ice cream. But if you add sprinkles, somebody gonna be allergic to it.” (06:22)
  • Risks of being a trailblazer: “First they laugh at you, then they try to kill you, then they try to copy what you did.” — Bryant, quoting Gandhi (06:34)

3. Responding to Political Smears & Black Representation

• Bryant’s response to Fox News’ Jesse Watters (accusations of racism):
  • “He clearly doesn’t know what racism is… Black people don’t have the capacity to be racist.” (08:11)
  • He criticizes Black leaders who attend photo-op events with no substantive agenda, especially when their community’s interests are at stake.
• Symbolism vs. Substance:
  • “They have that access to the president and didn’t champion any of the needs of their own community… If we’re going to celebrate it, we can’t ban the books that record it.” — Bryant (11:11)

4. The Intersection of Faith and Politics

• Why Bryant is politically active:
  • “To be a real prophet… [is] to confront the king and say, you out of order, you’re not doing this right… Revolution comes with inconvenience.” (15:01)
  • Critique of mega churches’ visibility vs. community impact: “The most powerful preachers… don’t have mega churches, but they’re in the community.” (15:54)
• On meeting with political adversaries:
  • Would meet with Trump, “but I wouldn’t go by myself.” (13:18)
  • Stresses need for accountability and strong representation.

5. The 40-Day Target Fast Explained

Why Target?

• Target promised $2B investment in Black business post-George Floyd, but “dishonored that commitment.” (16:27)
• “Negroes spend $12 million a day in Target. And I don’t know any black business that amasses that much money in any singular day.” (17:26)
• Target operates on 27 college campuses—not a single HBCU.
• Target is one of the largest Black employers, but does not honor Black communities proportionally.

Why a Fast and Not a Boycott?

• Seeks to reengage Black churches and Christians in activism, aligning with the spiritual significance of fasting.
• “This was a call specifically for black Christians to show the younger generation our head is not in the sand… we’re aligning it with prayer.” (18:19)

Addressing Criticism—Impact on Black-Owned Brands in Target:

• Uses digital directories so consumers can buy Black brands online (24:43)
• Sees inconvenience as necessary: “A movement comes with inconvenience… Let’s buy more to cover what is that loss. Companies take losses all the time.” (26:06)
• Emphasizes principle over profit and encourages building Black-owned retail infrastructure.

6. Internal Black Community Debate

Debates on Boycott Methods:

• Some preachers led congregations to Target to “buy out” all Black products (“support Black-owned brands”). Bryant objects:
  • “You’re still supporting Target. We gotta come [up with] a way…” (26:06-27:50)
• On uniting despite tactical disagreements:
  • “There can be many different paths… but there’s gotta be a line in the sand of how it is that we stand without attacking each other… Iron sharpens iron in that space…” (31:14–34:33)
• Advocates for decentralized, multi-track movements, echoing movements like LGBTQ rights.

7. Demands and the Path Forward

• Key Demands for Target:
  • Partner with HBCUs
  • Help Black businesses scale up
  • Measurable, public commitments
• Mobilization Success:
  • “We are 110,000 people… and did it before we ever got to the Breakfast Club.” (40:34)
  • Goal: Grow to 150,000+ to maximize leverage at Target’s shareholder meeting (June 12, Minneapolis).

8. Memorable Quotes

• On Black Economic Power:
  • “America’s worst nightmare is the marginalized, unified. If all of the different sectors came together, that’s when you have real power. Fingers separated don’t mean anything. Fingers together, become a fist.” (38:46)
• On spiritual activism:
  • “If we don’t bring a spiritual grounding to it, I think that we're going to miss it… Marching is good, protesting is necessary, petitions are important.” (18:19)
• On movement participation:
  • “For you to have a real revolution, you don’t need 100% participation. You only need 3%.” (39:09)
• On direct communication and accountability:
  • “[Silence] is the worst thing that you can ever do. When we learn how to talk to each other and discuss it, I understood where it is that they were coming from.” (34:55)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Church & Social Media: 04:10–07:27
• Controversy in Leadership: 06:01–07:11
• Responding to Jesse Watters, White House Events: 08:02–11:14
• Political Engagement & Influence: 11:45–15:54
• The 40-Day Target Fast: 16:07–20:00
• Supporting Black Brands, Debate Over Boycott Tactics: 24:19–31:14
• Debate on Black Movement Leadership: 31:14–34:33
• Building Black Economic Ecosystems: 27:50–29:05
• Mobilization Numbers & Plans: 40:27–41:37

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Notable, Memorable Moments

• Bryant’s tongue-in-cheek wit and directness: “You gotta have a hood interpreter, a hood whisperer…” — Pastor Bryant (11:11)
• Engagement on ideological rifts in Black activism:
  • “Iron sharpens iron in that space of arguing and articulating what we stand on and why there needs to be different tracks.” (34:00)
• Dynamic closing exchange about Baltimore vs. South Carolina crab:
  • “Baltimore’s the homicide. It was trauma that I had to do it in South Carolina before I had it.” (42:25)

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Action Steps & Resources

• Pastor Bryant urges listeners to visit targetfast.org for:
  • Target fast list of demands
  • Digital directory of 300,000+ Black businesses
  • Daily prayer devotionals to keep participants focused

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Final Takeaway

This episode is a spirited look at the crossroads of faith, Black economic leverage, and political action. Pastor Jamal Bryant challenges his community to organize, act with principle, leverage power collectively, and build sustainable Black-owned infrastructure, all while anchoring activism in spiritual and communal values.

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Listeners are left with both the urgency and the hopefulness of a spiritual, strategic, and unified approach to Black progress—beyond short-term controversies and toward lasting economic and cultural influence.

Transcript

[Charlamagne Tha God]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

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[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

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[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

The band is rocking and the crowd lit.

[Commercial Announcer]

Chance echo drum beat, everybody showing that.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

That's a game changer right there. Yeah, that taste always hits the right note. Just like the band at halftime. And just like that, we're back at it. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere and an ice cold Coca Cola.

[Commercial Announcer]

That's a winning combo.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

No matter the sport, no matter the yard. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

That ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Jess. Hilarious. Charlemagne, the guy. We are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRosa is here. We got a special guest in the building.

[Angela Rye]

Yes, indeed we have.

[DJ Envy]

Pastor Jamal Bryant. Welcome, brother.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Thank you, sir. Good to be with y'. All.

[DJ Envy]

How you feeling this morning?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Feel great.

[DJ Envy]

Feeling good.

[Angela Rye]

You flew in this.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

I flew in last night. Oh, wow.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wow.

[Commercial Announcer]

Okay.

[Angela Rye]

Okay. Right after service.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Right after service. Yeah, I was too scared I was gonna be delayed. Delta got a whole lot going on right now, so I came in last night. Better safe than sorry.

[Angela Rye]

You know, you. You one of the people who. You. You actually use social media to spread the word and spread what you're doing in a.

[DJ Envy]

In a.

[Angela Rye]

In a.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

In a.

[Angela Rye]

In a great way. When did you realize that you had to start doing it?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

I think culture made it. The culture changes every four years. Church culture changes every 20. So the average church is 15 years behind schedule. So to reach a younger demographic, I knew I had to hit it. Most churches Charlemagne broadcast on Facebook. Most young people are on TikTok, so it's a great disconnect. So social media really is that bridge to make the church relevant to a generation that's disconnected.

[Angela Rye]

And church culture. You said church culture changes every 20 years. What's that look like? I don't.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Well, by virtue of the fact that we're always running behind, so the average black church wouldn't even know what AI is. You have to think. Most churches didn't even stream till the pandemic. 3045 churches closed in the pandemic simply because they didn't have online giving.

[Angela Rye]

Wow.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

They still passing a plate and writing checks and don't know how to download. So a lot of our churches have got to really run up to speed. Wow.

[DJ Envy]

And how is that with the old congregation, the older congregation and the younger congregation with the TikTok and Facebook mesh?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Right. It's really a changing of the guard. That church is. What was our grandmother's church with funeral home fans and fried chicken downstairs has shifted. And the newer generation may not come to a physical building. They may just stream. So those who are in the old church that are. You ain't really doing it if you ain't in the building when we do everything online. So to say that you're not really connected to God because you streaming and not sitting on the pew is a disconnect of what the culture is and where we're going.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What's your. I mean, I know you get. You always get people that love you or don't love you. Yeah, they probably used to this, but what's your motto? Every day when you're like, okay, I'm a get up, I'm going to say something that people probably won't touch. Like, what's that motivating factor? Because sometimes, like, I think pastors stay away from stuff because they don't want controversy, because they think controversy means that God is not within the house anymore.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah. There's an incredible book called the Carriage to be Disliked. As a whole lot of people always live for other people's affirmation. John Maxwell said, if you want to be like, sell ice cream.

[Angela Rye]

That's right.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

But if you add sprinkles, somebody gonna be allergic to it. And so I think that the call to be great and the call to make a difference is realizing that you're gonna go outside of the culture. When Dr. King was killed, his popularity was at its lowest. But now everybody got street signs and T shirts. And a lot of times, people don't recognize your greatness until after you make the impact. Mahatma Gandhi said, first they laugh at you, then they try to kill you, then they try to copy what you did. And so once you find out how to be a frontiersman and to make that difference, it'll really free you from other people's opinion.

[DJ Envy]

I want to ask one more back to the church question. Is a physical church necessarily needed? Right. And the reason I ask that is as you talk about the amount of people that do stream. Right?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

It's difficult to get out if you have a bunch of kids and everything that's going on in this world, people are scared. Is a physical church needed now?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Absolutely. It is the power of unity. There was an article a couple of weeks ago how social media has made this the loneliest age. So people are connected online, but disconnected from people. So a lot of people are depressed, a lot of people have anxiety, a lot of people have sleep disorder. A lot of people are confronting mental illness. But online, everything is up and we stuck. But I think that that sense of community, that sense of connectedness is still necessary.

[Angela Rye]

Before we get into the target fast, I wanna talk about Jesse Waters from Fox News.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Right? Yes.

[Angela Rye]

Jesse Waters said you was racist.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yes.

[Angela Rye]

Because you criticized black people who went to the White House for the Black History Month program.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Right.

[Angela Rye]

What do you say to that?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

That he clearly doesn't know what racism is. Cause I wasn't talking about white people. I was talking about black people who having an identity crisis, who were in there cheering for Black History Month. Under an administration that wants to make it illegal, no federal agency could honor Black History Month. So for them to have a program was absolutely crazy. And all the more, they raised up my picture Charlemagne, after announcing who was the new FBI director. So for your own people to do that to you, I was calling them out. I don't know why he would call that racism. I. As much as it was exposure, Black people don't have the capacity to be racist.

[Angela Rye]

I wonder why they did hold your picture up in the White House.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Three of them. Charlamagne. You've been to the White House? Ain't no way.

[Angela Rye]

Yeah.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

You've been to the White House. Never in your life.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He said he not going there.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Never under nobody? No. Oh, wow.

[Angela Rye]

I've been to the vice president's house.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Huh?

[Angela Rye]

I've been to the vice president.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah, well, let's. Let's take the vice president house. You're not going in the vice president's house with a picture or a sign. No holding up, no stick. You barely can get a backpack in there. So for them to have three pictures of me in the East Wing is absolutely crazy. And I don't know, Jasmine Crockett is up there. Hakeem Jeffries is up there. Clyburn is up there. Why put my picture up? So I think it was a targeted attack. And so for them to assume I wasn't gonna say anything was outlandish.

[Angela Rye]

You did call him the spooks who sat by the door, though.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yes, but that's a good thing, to.

[Angela Rye]

Be a spook who sat by the door.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah. In the context of the book, what's funny is Charlemagne. None of them Negroes read it, so they didn't even know what I was talking about until I also caught him as a runaway slave, which is a good thing. And they didn't even understand the context of it. Cause they're lost in their own misery of delusion.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You also said you reminded them that you ain't never scared. You reminded them you from the west side of Baltimore.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yes.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And you told them they got a problem pull up on you. Has anybody reached out to. To you to have that conversation or whatever that pull up you thought was.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

No, they made videos. They don't have none of that in them. This was the society, this was the fraternity of Carlton Banks. None of them. None of them got that kind of DNA in them. So they all went on and did social media posts. I don't even know if they knew what that meant. They needed a hood interpreter, a hood whisperer to tell them what it is that that meant. But they are so lost that they have that access to the president and didn't champion any of the needs of their own community. So while they're there celebrating Black History Month, they should have said to them, hey, if we're going to celebrate it, we can't ban the books that record it. If we're going to celebrate it, then we can't penalize the public schools that want to teach it or fire the instructors who are really ambassadors for it. For them to have that access and that opportunity is. And not, in the words of Bishop Jakes, maximize the moment was just a waste.

[Angela Rye]

You from Baltimore, how come you don't say church pew?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Did you listen? Everybody from Baltimore don't have that slang. They do. They be all saying, oh, yeah, no, I'm local and global. So I got out.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You got out, but it's still in me. It's in me, period.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Oh, yeah, it's a half and half with wings, period. No, I got it all day long. I'm Baltimore through and through, but I spent time in Atlanta. I went to Morehouse, then I went to Duke for grad school, and then I went back to Baltimore.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Got you. And what's your relationship like with the black pastors who were also working with President Trump? Cause I know you called them out before too. He was on their top. So is there like, is there a working relationship Because I think you do make points that people should listen to. And they're there.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yes. No, it's Nikki Giovanni's ego tripping. A lot of people miss what the assignment is because they want the proximity of power without even really having the real access of it. And so it's gotta go beyond what is the photo op or a handshake to say, oh, I know the President, but now that you know him, what are you gonna do about it? And so I think that there's a common ground for us to be able to meet, but you've gotta make sure that you don't sell your own people out in the process.

[Angela Rye]

To your point, that's why I never wanted to go to the White House. Cause it's just like, for what? Like I'm not going just for a photo op. If I'm not presenting anything or going with somebody who's presenting something, what's the point?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

I'm with you on the 50 yard line, but you represent too much of influence who won't have that access. So when it is that you go there, this is an era Charlemagne, where you would have more influence than any head of any civil rights organization. More people are listening to you. I don't want to call the names of organizations then a lot of those organizations. Let's go a step further. We step outside of this room, go downstairs and ask people who was the head of this organization headed that they have no idea. And so I think that you gotta realize that the shaping of influence is different than the microphone, that you would have entree to get into those spaces.

[Angela Rye]

Would you meet with Trump?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

I would meet with Trump, but I wouldn't go by myself.

[Angela Rye]

Gotcha.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

I wouldn't go by myself. I'd have to take some credible people with me to one, hold me accountable so we can all say what happened in that meeting. And two, to make sure y' all ain't gonna play me like Zelensky. Ain't no way in the world y' all gonna have all them cameras rolling and then say, you oughta be grateful to be here and how come you ain't got a suit on? Yeah, so you gotta have some level of accountability in it.

[Angela Rye]

Would you pray before you go in there so you.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

I pray before I pray in there. I'd have a vial of my grandmother's oil in my pocket. Oh, no. All of that, but there's no way I would just go in there.

[Angela Rye]

How do you think Zelensky should have handled it?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

I think he did it. What this administration has Shown us is diplomacy is no longer honored. That was an argument in the barbershop that was not world leaders talking about the devastation of hundreds of thousands of lives. So I give him high commendation that the argument should not be whether he had a suit on is what are you going to do about innocent children being bombed, about seniors who are living out in the street? And the question that he should have said, why do y' all have suits on when your people are fighting to get Medicaid? Why y' all got suits on when all of these students are getting ready to be robbed of scholarships from Pell Grants? Why y' all got suits on when the stock market is losing billions of dollars every day? Everybody should be in overalls. So he, he should have flipped it. But I think he did it in as much decency intact as he could.

[Angela Rye]

I wanted to ask you too, as a pastor, what makes you get involved in politics so much? Because I see people, I see a lot of pastors like to steer clear, steer, stay clear from that. Why do you like to get involved?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Well, one, a lot of staying clear now because they don't know what this administration is gonna do. This administration has already said that they want to take away 501 C3s. They want to look at anybody who stands with Palestine as a terrorist organization. But I think that it's gotta be revolution comes with inconvenience to know that it goes against the prick. And you gotta stand on business. And to be a real prophet is not. You get a car, you get a house, you get money. A real profit biblically was to confront the king and say, you out of order, you're not doing this right. And I think that you're gonna find a whole lot of people emerging. And there are people who are doing it. What has happened in the culture is we have confused notoriety with strength. The most powerful preachers in every major city don't have mega churches, but they're in the community doing the hard work. But they don't have press conferences, they don't know the governor, they don't know the mayor. But the people in the community they serve, honor and respect them. That's right.

[DJ Envy]

Let's talk about this. The 40 day fast of target.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yes.

[DJ Envy]

And this is something that you're trying to put into play. And why I'm not trying. You are putting in.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

No, no. Yeah. So people are asking, why did we pick Target when Walmart out of order, McDonald's is out of order, John Deere's out of order, bank of America's out of order.

[Angela Rye]

Amazon.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Amazon is out of order is we wanted to go. The African proverb says, if you want to eat an elephant, do one piece at a time. So we picked Target first for several reasons. Number one, Target is headquartered in the same city George Floyd was killed. When George Floyd was killed, Target came out, made an announcement that they're going to invest $2 billion in the black business. Two billion. Drum roll. And it starts December of 2025. When Trump made the announcement, January of 2025, they dishonored that commitment. So we wanted to hold them accountable, because when they made the pledge, it had nothing to do with Di. Secondly, I am embarrassed, Breakfast Club to say to you, Negroes spend $12 million a day in Target. And I don't know any black business that amasses that much money in any singular day.

[DJ Envy]

So 12 million a day.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

A day. Number three, target is on 27 college campuses and not one HBCU. Number four, outside of the federal government, Target is the largest employer of black people. There are 400,000 black people on payroll and don't honor us. So we're giving that kind of money, that much human capital, and to not honor us, I think is dismally disrespected. And because they're publicly traded, we wanted to see what will happen in those 40 days that shows the data. This is the impact when black people walk away and to share it with those share crops. So it will not just be 40 days, but every movement has to have a benchmark, has got to have a strategy, and you got to have some data. What do you say?

[Angela Rye]

Calling it a fast and not a boycott?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah, I called it a fast because this was a call to the black church to become active. Something happened silently that scholars and historians are going to have to pay attention to. The rise of Black Lives Matter. Charlemagne was the very first movement of civil rights for black people that was not birthed out of the church. The very first civil rights movement that happened that didn't have a religious leader at the front. And so the black church is going backwards. This is the largest demographic of black people since we've been in America who don't go to church at all, who don't subscribe to organized religion. We're at 28%, the largest amount of black people who self identify as atheists, who say they don't believe in God, don't believe in nothing. So this was a call specifically for black Christians to show the younger generation our head is not in the sand. We are part of it, but we're aligning it with prayer that those 40 days is the high holy season for the Christian community. We we're praying because this is a spiritual warfare that we're under with J.D. vance and Donald Trump with all of the things that are happening with these executive orders. Marching is good, protesting is necessary, petitions are important. But if we don't bring a spiritual grounding to it, I think that we're going to miss it. During the Montgomery Bus boycott that last 381 days, what nobody talks about is for 381 days, every night they went back to the church.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You all know this time of year is my recess season. New energy, new plans, new ways to grow my brand. And if you're trying to start 2026 ahead of the game, like really ahead, now is the time to get moving. For me, Shopify has been the platform that keeps my whole merch business tight. As a creator, as a businesswoman, I need my tools to work hard. And Shopify is like having a chief of staff, a personal assistant, and a co founder all in. And look, I always tell other women building their own brands, especially small, independent black creators, don't overcomplicate it. Whether you're running a side hustle or you're trying to run a full storefront, selling to your community or around the world, Shopify takes the guesswork out of everything. Shopify also, like, my favorite thing about it is they teach you as you grow, you can look up anything, get information on anything, and it's simple. They give you, like, easy one, two, three steps. I used to juggle 10 different logins and apps. Now one platform I manage, my store, sell online, sell, sell on social, even tag products right from my phone, wherever I am. And Shopify Sidekick. Listen, you keep hearing all about AI. Let me tell y', all, this AI is a lifesaver. It gives me reports, content, ideas, helps me edit images. It's literally like having a smart assistant in my back pocket guiding me to my next move. So let's be real. It's time to stop thinking and start doing. And there is no better way to do that than Shopify. Use our link shopify.com B E N now to start getting serious about building your future.

[DJ Envy]

Hey, what up, y'?

[Angela Rye]

All?

[DJ Envy]

It's DJ Envy. And the holidays are here. The time of year that's all about connecting with loved ones in person or over the phone. In fact, hearing someone's voice can evoke a similar emotional response as a hug. And while most of us can hop on a video chat to really bring that connection to life. Using tech isn't easy for everyone, especially some of the older folk in our lives. AT&T has been doing something special here to help. They offer digital literacy workshops that help older adults learn how to use technology to do things most of us take for granted, like video conferencing and sharing photos. Take Nancy Shand. She joined one of AT&T's workshops to learn how to video chat for the first time this holiday season, Nancy won't just be hearing about family gatherings, she'll be a part of them, sharing stories, opening presents and making memories all through a screen. Nobody should have to go through the holiday season alone, so be sure to connect and stay connected to your loved ones this holiday season.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Connecting changes everything. AT&T the holiday season is the most wonderful time of the year, filled with joy and laughter, a little bit of the festive chaos we all secretly love. From long shopping lists to travel plans to family dinners, it's a lot happening all at once. But this season, Coca Cola wants to remind everyone that the magic isn't in the hustle and bustle. It's finding joy in the little moments, like laughing over old memories, playing holiday games, or taking that first sip of an ice cold Coca Cola that cuts through all the holiday frenzy and brings the cool comfort to your soul. Because that's the good stuff. The joy hiding in plain sight. The sound of laughter mixing with the clink of glasses, the calm between the songs and the stories. And when things start to feel like they're doing the most, that crisp, delicious taste of Coca Cola can be the reset everyone needs. Just a little reminder that the season isn't about rushing, it's about refreshing. So wherever the holidays take you, slow down, take a breath and savor the moment. Enjoy a Coca Cola refresh your holidays.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

So I think that in the movement you've got to have a faith entity intertwined in it in order for you to move forward.

[DJ Envy]

What do you say to some of the people that have black products in Target? That they say that, you know, because of this boycott, if a boycott happens and people are stopping to go to Target, that is gonna affect their products even more. I know we had the co founders.

[Commercial Announcer]

Of Rucker Roots on the Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

Founder of the Lit Bar. And they were saying that if people don't come into the store, which Target is their hugest manufacturer, the hugest buyer. So what happens to those products?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Number one, the lip bar. And all of those entities understand a new thing out called drop ship. You don't have to go in a physical store to help them. Because of that, in foresight, we partner with the U.S. black Chamber of Commerce. So every person that goes to target fast.org within an hour, I send you a Digital Directory of 330,000 black businesses across the country. So we don't want those businesses to be adversely impacted. We want people to support them. But do it online. I can support the lip Bar and not go into Target to do it. I can go online to do it. And so I think that as innovative and creative people as black people are, let's do it online. We do everything else online. So let's support them. And the 1,000 black vendors who are placed in Target, we're going to prominently place on the website so that you'll be able to find them quickly without any pause. I saw you.

[Angela Rye]

Oh, good.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So two things to what you're saying. So the first thing when they were up here, they talked about the inventory and just how much money they have to put ahead to be in these stores that comes out of their own pocket that they will lose out on if people do not. If they're not supporting these like companies or whatever. So even if you're buying it from their website because they already in contract for this amount of inventory allotted to Target, they lose out. They don't profit on that now.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah, that money has already been spent. A movement comes with inconvenience. It came a. That same argument happened in the Montgomery bus boycott. The question was asked, what do we do for the bus mechanics who were all black? So what they did is they pulled all of those bus mechanics out of Montgomery and set up garages at the churches. What nobody is talking about is four mechanic Shops came out of it. So I understand that it's an inconvenience. I know we got to go a different route. But I would then say that's up the ante. As a business principle. Let's buy more to cover what is that loss. Companies take losses all the time. But a group of misguided preachers went into Target in Detroit and said, let's just buy black inventory and come out. You're still supporting Target. So I think that we've got to come a way. Even if we gotta raise the price in order to make the balance, let's do it. One of the things that black people do wrong, whenever it is we're supporting black business, we always want a discount. Let's pay full price and support them. Let's not just do it with lip service, but let's do it through the investment.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And I saw you, my last thing to your point of like just up in the ante online.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yes.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Uh, the women from Rucker Roots talked about how majority.

[Angela Rye]

Ellen Sellers.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Ellen. I'm sorry, I don't have her names in front of me. I own, I own, I own Jameson and Ellen Sellers talked about how even in Walmart's majority of their clientele that they make a large amount of their money off of on those products, they don't have the access to the dot com. So being able to walk in like it's, it's just different in some of the lower area, rural areas. So being able to walk into a Walmart or a Target helps them as far as inventory and creates access for those people. What about that?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah, I think that we've got to ask ourselves what is the principle and is the principal more important than the profit? You've got a whole lot of churches who have space that is underutilized and underused. The fact that in 2025 we don't have a minority owned retail space to direct people on says that we got to reevaluate how we do business. So going into Target to buy whatever this product is to say, hey, forget that they don't honor us. Forget that they've disrespected the George Floyd family. Forget that they are only allowing black people on entry level positions. Let's do it for lipstick. I think that we're losing the larger conversation. I want to see the sisters win. I want to see them do overwhelmingly well. But I think that we got to get into a room and figure out how do we make it more accessible for those in rural areas. I don't think that the Answer is to keep shooting ourselves in the foot and then ask for a cast.

[DJ Envy]

But will we ever get there, Pastor? Like, you know, we want to get there, right? Will we ever own our own Target slash Walmart? Will we ever own our own car manufacturer? Will we ever own our own so we can rely on it? It just seems like we're far stretched from that.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah. So one of the things that we're asking for Target to do, and for all of the demands that we're asking of Target, please go to targetfast.org they're on 27 college campuses, but no HBCUs. I'm asking Target to partner with 10 HBCUs to show our businesses how to scale up and to go into the retail space. Reverend Sharpton is one of my mentors. But in the history of black people, we have never marched black people into a white business to, say, spend money here to. So we gotta figure out how it is that we really reroute and redirect so that we can create an ecosystem for us to be able to do. I think that is possible, but there's a plan that has to be afoot in order to make it done.

[Angela Rye]

I don't have any problem with the boycott, but I don't have a problem with the boycott either. I just feel like, you know, people should do something, agree if they're moved to do something. But I saw you repost the preachers who led their flock into the store to buy all of the black products. Why did you feel the need to read the room?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Read the room. There's no way.

[Angela Rye]

Which room, though? Everybody, room.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Different. No, no, no, no. Read the living room. Yeah. The Japanese proverb said, the best room in the house is the room for improvement. You'll notice that it caught on nowhere. Nobody thought that that was a good idea. Except I heard a lot of people.

[Angela Rye]

Talking about a bike.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah. End Target. Yeah. Oh, I missed that memo.

[Angela Rye]

I heard a lot of people saying, go in there and buy all the black products.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah, don't do that. Yeah, don't do that. I think that there's gotta be a different way that we redirect. I think to my sister's point, how do we support these businesses? To Envy's point? We don't have a major retailer, but we're the most creative people. Y' all done brought everybody in here. Master P got on from selling from the trunk of his car. So I think that we gotta be innovative and put a think tank together. Say Magic Johnson, you bought all these movie theaters in the concession stand. Can I now buy lipstick? I don't know the answer to it, but I think that we've got to figure out a way and figure out a path and figure out a tributary.

[Angela Rye]

I just don't want us to make the same mistakes that that are generations before us made. Meaning. Like, people would knock Martin Luther King Jr. For his methods. And, you know, different organizations would knock each other and say, no, we should be doing it this way, we should be doing it that way.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yes.

[Angela Rye]

It's like, yo, as long as everybody's doing something, I feel like it all.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Can be effective in a sense. I'm gonna meet you on a 50 yard line. If you got beef with somebody, me and you were friends, and you find out who you got beef with. I'm at dinner with you. Like, oh, man, I thought we was together. Oh, Charlamagne. Don't worry about it. It was just cheesecake. We didn't even talk about you. You would look at me with a different kind of eye, like, hey, man, if we enter together, how are you carousing with the person who is against me? So I think that there's gotta be a line in the sand of how it is that we stand without attacking each other. I think that's where the rubber hits the road. There can be many different paths. I spoke at a college last week in Michigan, and I asked them, who is the head of the LGBTQ community movement and all of these college students? Nobody could answer it. And I said, do you all believe that LGBTQ has a movement? They said, yes. And I said, you don't know? The head said, no. I said, that's the memo. Black people gotta take. Have a movement without making one singular spokesperson that what it is that we're doing can be rested on the back of the shoulder of one person being the leader. So the movement doesn't have to be just Sharpton or Jasmine Crockett or Maxine Waters, that all of us are moving towards that end. But it is not one entity against another. The reality is Malcolm X made Martin King a better leader because he questioned his philosophy and he had to defend it. And so I think one of the things that the Detroit pastors did made us sharpen the conversation as to why it is that we're not going. So it's not just a social media post or rah rah moment, but there's something really tangible for us to argue to that point.

[Angela Rye]

I feel like Malcolm was wrong for that. And the reason I say that is because Martin Luther King Jr. Was doing real work in an area we needed him to do real work, meaning that he was building with John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson to get actual legislation passed. But we need somebody like Martin. I mean, Malcolm raising hell in the streets. So to me, there was no reason for Malcolm to be calling out Martin.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yes.

[Angela Rye]

And vice versa.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah, Yeah. I think it was calling out the philosophy. The students who are part of the civil rights movement, before they could protest, before they could demonstrate, they argued on the college campus with the professor, and they had to have practice. So if somebody spits on you, this is what you do. They try to pull you out from the lunch counter. This what you do. The reality is we are no longer arguing philosophies. We're just arguing about people and personality or who. I don't like, who I agree with, but I think that iron sharpens iron in that space of arguing and articulating what we stand on and why there needs to be different tracks. My issue is not with people who argue against my methodology. My issue is with those who don't believe in nothing, who are just Internet gangsters. Oh, this ain't gonna work. We ain't never gonna stick together. This thing gonna have no traction. Okay, then what are you gonna do?

[DJ Envy]

Have those people reached out to you, the people that don't agree with what you're doing? Like those pastors that took their congregation in to buy. Have you had those conversations so y' all can get on the same page and say some of the things that.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

You were talking about? Yes, yes, yes. So as soon as I saw it, because I know him, three fourths of them, I text him, hey, man, y' all on the wrong side of history.

[Angela Rye]

You say amen, and you say, nigga.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

It was a Sunday. It was a Sunday. So I said, hey, man. Okay. I said, hey, man, you're on the wrong side of history. He text me back and said, hey, this is what I thought process was. This is why it is that we did it. I said, it would have gone a whole lot further and better if you had the conversation before you went in there. So I went on a college campus to go speak in Detroit, Wayne State. I come out of lecturing, and the press is there and says, what do you think about these passes going to Target? Said, what pastors? What are you talking about? The reporter showed it to me on the phone, and so that's when I got in it. And I think that communication can solve a whole lot of issues on so many different levels, whether you're married or whether you go on Political agendas. Silence is the worst thing that you can ever do. But when we learn how to talk to each other and discuss it, I understood where it is that they were coming from. Those pastors are now walking alongside us for the target fast. But I think that communication is necessary. I also want to put on record that I think that is good for black people to be in a Republican Party. I don't think all blacks should be Democrat. We need somebody else who is in there. But if you in there, you got to advocate for your people. At the same time, I saw you.

[Angela Rye]

Say that Target has been trying to reach out to you.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yes.

[Angela Rye]

But you, you I'm gonna talk to. No. Diversity.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

No. You may not have a job next week. You reached out during Black History Month. I don't know if you're gonna make it to St. Patrick's Day. I need somebody who got some job security and got some influence to make a decision. I think this generation don't want symbolic wins. They want substantive strides. And if you're just doing that to say, we met, we talked, all the street credibility is gone. I need somebody who can make a decision. And you gotta ask envy what's in the mind of a CEO that can lose $12 million a day and say, I'm not meeting.

[DJ Envy]

So the person who reached out to you felt had no influence.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah. Not enough influence.

[Angela Rye]

Got you.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah. So you're gonna send the black people out to talk to the black. Black guy.

[DJ Envy]

Go talk to the black guy.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Go see what your people. Settle them down. Got you. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. I need to talk to the CEO or I need to talk to somebody who was on that board of Target who can really help me understand where you are. And if you all are being punked by J.D. vance and Trump, tell me that and let's figure out how we can walk alongside each other.

[Angela Rye]

Well, we know that's what it is.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah, that's what it is. But tell me that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, when you. So I know that in talking about meeting, eventually y' all want to have a conversation or there is something scheduled. Right. You guys will be meeting June 12th in Minneapolis.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

That's when their stockholders meeting is.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, the shareholders meeting.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Okay. Yeah. So we are planning on going there. I'm hoping that we have resolved by then.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's what I was getting.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yes. We can't wait till June, but June 12th. And there now is an underground murmur that they don't even want to do an in person shareholder meet. They want to do it by zoom.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They don't want you guys to show up.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yes, but that's why it's important for you to have the data to show how this has been impacted, how much money you've lost in the stock, and what is at stake. So we wanted to take. Take all of that to the shareholders meeting June 12th.

[Angela Rye]

You know, there was a bunch of Target shareholders who filed a class action lawsuit against Target, and they claimed that Target artificially inflated stock prices and failed to warn investors about how removing DEI and esg, which is environmental, social, and governance policies, could cause stock prices to plummet. And it also talks about how Target concealed the backlash it suffered from the. The Pride Month campaign.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yes.

[Angela Rye]

After they removed the LGBTQ merchandise. And that's how they've been losing all of that money since November of 2024.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

America's worst nightmare is the marginalized, unified. If all of the different sectors came together, that's when you have real power. Fingers separated don't mean anything. Fingers together, become a fist. The Poor People's campaign is what Dr. King was putting together just before he was assassinated. He said, the same poverty that's happening in Selma is the same poverty that's in the Appalachian Mountains. What happened that really frightened J. Edgar Hoover against the Black Panther Party was they were unifying all marginalized people. So imagine if we're dealing with immigration. We don't allow the media to just make it a Mexican issue. Let's talk about the 500,000 Haitians who are unprotected. Let's talk about the Africans who are being deported. Hear this family who they not even deporting back to Africa. They in jail right now in Panama, and we not doing anything or raising the alarm if all of these factions come together. A sister out of Harvard University says, for you to have a real revolution, you don't need 100% participation. You only need 3%. If 3% of the population organize, you can shut any culture down, any government down, any society down. And what we're seeing in these town hall meetings with these Republicans, Senators, and congresspeople is people are waking up saying, hey, this ain't what I signed up for. This can't be the last train to Paris. Let me get out of here and change direction. So I think that you're getting ready to see a percolating in America of those who are marginalized, that it is not just a race issue, it is a class issue.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

My last question for you. Where are you at now, numbers wise? Because I know you were looking to get 100,000 people by this Wednesday the 5th, when it starts. And you are.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

We are 110,000 people.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Got.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

You have come and we did it before we ever got to the Breakfast Club. So now, y', all, we got to get to 150. We got. We got to get to 150. Because numbers is power. It was important for me to have tangible evidence of how many people are standing behind us. That is not just a post. It's not just likes and shares, but 100,000 people. I can press a button and send an email to say, hey, we outside in Target. Hey, we in Cincinnati, so that the people at Target know that we mean business. That is not just symbolism, but there's substance bias.

[DJ Envy]

How can people get behind you?

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Go to targetfast.org is just one word there. You'll see what is our list of demands when it is that you sign up for Target Fast. I'm going to send you a digital directory to those 300,000 businesses. And even for those of you who don't go to church or watch online, I'm going to send you a daily prayer devotional so that you can stay focused. No pun intended, so you can stay on Target for what it is that we trying to get done.

[DJ Envy]

All right, well, we appreciate you for joining us this morning Again, target fast.org and thank you so much, brother Man.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Thank you. And when y' all come there, Atlanta. I'm coming through. I ain't even got a ticket. I'm coming soon.

[Angela Rye]

Well, yeah, he came. Pastor Jamal has popped up to my Black Effect podcast festival.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

I'm coming this year.

[Angela Rye]

I want to come to New Birth, man.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

You gotta come.

[Angela Rye]

I want to come one Sunday and check it out.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Yeah, you gotta come.

[Angela Rye]

Absolutely.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

His room at the Cross. Thank. Hey, let me say this to you, okay? I'm from Baltimore. Do you know the first place I ever had crabs?

[Angela Rye]

Charleston, South Carolina.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Monks Corner.

[Angela Rye]

Monks Corner. Okay.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Monks Corner. AME Church. Right there.

[Angela Rye]

Jameson.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Blake. James Blake. This is back in the 80s. All right. Okay. It's the first place I ever had crab. My family's from Georgetown, South Carolina.

[Angela Rye]

Okay.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

So we used to come down there every summer. But Baltimore, they still thought you had crabs.

[Angela Rye]

And you from Baltimore.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Was they better than Baltimore? They cook them with the beer.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Never. Let's not go too far. I was just doing trauma bonding with Charlamagne. No, no. Baltimore's the homicide.

[Commercial Announcer]

Crab ain't no trauma.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

It was trauma that I had to do it in South Carolina before I had it.

[Angela Rye]

South Carolina is amazing fishy food.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

It's amazing. It's Great. It's just not as good as Baltimore. But it's good. Thank you all.

[DJ Envy]

Pastor Jamal Bryan, it's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.

[Commercial Announcer]

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop. Voted PCMag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive active anywhere, and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit lgusa.com iheart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag Reader's Choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

At Hill's Pet Nutrition, we know that.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Pet parent guilt is real. Leaving too long, playing too little.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

New homes, new babies.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

Waking them up when they look so comfortable. Running out of patience. Running out of treats, running the vacuum. You can only do so much.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's why there's hills. Science led nutrition to help you give.

[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

More love than humanly possible.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Pastor Jamal Bryant]

There's hills.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Find the right [e-mail] science does more.

[Commercial Announcer]

This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers from the very same podcast. And guess what? It's the holiday season. And you know what that means. Holiday parties, Beau. Holiday parties. They're the best. But there's always the stress of what to wear, what to bring. Easy solution. Okay, bring a bottle of Casamigos. Casamigos. Wow. That is the move you can make. Casamigos Mules or Casamigos Espresso Martinis or Casamigos Cram. And don't forget about Casamigos Margaritas. A Casamigos margarita is the perfect cocktail all year round. Casamigos is just the perfect gift that keeps on giving. And as the saying goes, anything goes with my Casamigos. On second thought, a holiday party might be in order. That's a great idea. Please drink responsibly. Imported by Casamigos Spirits Co. White Plains, N.Y. casamigos Tequila 40% alcohol by volume. Tis the season for identity theft. This time of year, most of us are checking off our holiday gift lists. But guess what? Identity thieves have lists too. And your personal information might be on them. Protect your identity with Lifelock. Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points every second and alerts you to threats you could miss by yourself. Even if you keep an eye on your bank and credit card statements, if your identity is stolen, your own US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. And all plans are backed by the million dollar protection package. The last thing you want to do this holiday season is face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or other financial losses from identity theft all alone. Make this season about joy, not Identity theft. With LifeLock, save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code IHEART or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off. Terms apply. Yo, do you know Ball well? Come through with a free $10 from Better Picks, download the Better app, pick more or less on your favorite player stats, watch the games and win some cash. It's the that simple. Must be 21 or older in a jurisdiction where Better Picks operates, terms and conditions apply. Better Picks Sports just got better.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.