Dating/Relationship Confessions ( Ari Lennox on toxic love and Michelle Obama gets real about marriage)

Summary

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The Breakfast Club – "Dating/Relationship Confessions"

Ari Lennox on Toxic Love & Michelle Obama Gets Real About Marriage
Date: March 12, 2026
Host: Lauren LaRosa (for The Black Effect Podcast Network with iHeartPodcasts)
Guests/Featured: Ari Lennox, Michelle Obama, Craig Robinson, Sterling K. Brown, Ryan Michelle Bathé

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the realities—often messy, sometimes raw—of modern dating and long-term relationships. Lauren LaRosa recaps and analyzes recent candid interviews: Ari Lennox on her struggle with toxic attraction and self-healing, and Michelle Obama’s unflinching honesty about hard years in her marriage to Barack Obama. The show links their stories to wider cultural conversations around accountability, growth, and the myth of perfect relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pop Culture & Honest Conversations ([03:00])

• Lauren opens by celebrating how the intersection of pop culture and real talk drives necessary conversations around relationships, identity, and mental health.
• She teases her upcoming panel with Ciara on HIV prevention and the hidden influence of entertainment on public health.

2. Ari Lennox’s "Vacancy" and the Thrill of Toxic Love ([05:10]–[13:11])

The Album as Life Soundtrack ([05:10])

• Lauren frames Ari Lennox’s new project, "Vacancy," as an R&B/neo-soul diary chronicling the push-pull of wanting her space filled but refusing to settle for emptiness or disrespect.

Genuine Self-Reflection

• Lauren admires Ari’s current "season of accountability":
  • “I feel like she’s in a season of accountability that I haven’t seen from her, and I’ve been a fan for a very long time.” ([06:47])

Ari Lennox Gets Vulnerable ([07:52])

• Ari Lennox admits:

  "I think I have a thing for toxic energy… I gave [toxic men] so much time, and there were sweet energies I didn’t. And so now I see those sweet energies getting married and starting families… that probably could’ve been me if I recognized the security… at the time."
  —Ari Lennox ([07:52])

• Why the attraction to toxicity?

  "They just seem really exciting at first. The chemistry is incredible… it’s just an energy. Sometimes it’s convenience... I’m trying to figure out what that means. It’s the thrill."
  —Ari Lennox ([08:30])

Lauren’s Commentary: Universal Phases

• Lauren relates deeply, confiding:

  "I don’t know any woman who has not been through this phase of her life… My relationship now couldn’t have been that. But back then, I thought that was cute."
  —Lauren LaRosa ([09:07])

• She describes the trauma of repeatedly expecting disaster, even when things are good:

  "It’s like walking outside on a 90-degree day... and you’re dressed for rain because you know it rains in the world."
  —Lauren LaRosa ([10:27])

• Lauren wants more societal honesty:

  "I wish the world was a lot more honest about the things we actually go through as human beings." ([11:38]) "When you can be so honest with yourself—even if you’re still doing the thing you have to sit yourself down and be like 'girl, you crazy'—that’s a different level of growth." ([12:24])

3. Michelle Obama’s Real Talk about Marriage and Motherhood ([16:49]–[20:33])

The Pressure of the "Perfect" Obama Marriage

• Lauren prefaces Michelle Obama’s candor about tough years, asking:

  "Did they only make it through because of the kids?" ([16:49])

Michelle Obama Answers ([18:48])

• On kids and marital hardship:

  "Sometimes without kids, some of the tough times wouldn’t happen… The thing that makes [things] harder is when those beautiful, wonderful, lovely kids... show up with their own agendas and their own needs. Now it’s the first major joint project you have to do together. That’s when the hard starts."
  —Michelle Obama ([18:48])

• The work of a lasting marriage:

  "The level of muscle that Barack and I have in our marriage is earned. It’s earned over time… If you quit too soon, you’ll rob yourself of the success of the better, the work that goes in."
  —Michelle Obama ([20:14])

The Value of Honesty in Public Figures

• Lauren connects Michelle’s openness to Ari’s music: authentic struggle is what makes them relatable, not just aspirational.
• She calls out the unfairness of criticizing (“dragging”) women for telling truths we all experience at some stage.

4. General Reflection: We’re All Figuring It Out ([20:33])

• Lauren summarizes the episode’s core message:

  "Everybody is just trying to figure it out. Period. That’s it. That’s all. And I appreciate the good conversations they’re having in the midst of it." ([20:33])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ari Lennox on dating regret and accountability:
  “There were sweet energies that I didn’t [give a chance to]. And so now I see those sweet energies getting married and starting families… that probably could’ve been me.” ([07:52])

• Lauren on the universal struggle:
  “I don’t know any woman who has not been through this phase of her life.” ([09:07])

• Michelle Obama on staying the course:
  "If you quit too soon, you’ll rob yourself of the success of the better, the work that goes in." ([20:14])

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Important Timestamps

• [05:10] – Lauren introduces Ari Lennox’s album and journey
• [07:52] – Ari Lennox honestly discusses her attraction to toxic relationships
• [09:07] – Lauren’s own reflections on the universality of this phase for women
• [16:49] – Lauren introduces Michelle Obama’s candid marriage talk
• [18:48] – Michelle Obama explains how parenthood shaped her marriage’s hardest years
• [20:14] – Michelle Obama on earning marital resilience with time

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Final Thoughts

• Lauren closes the episode inviting listeners to reflect:

  "Are you where Ari Lennox is at? How do you feel about what she said?... Do you think Barack and Michelle Obama would’ve stayed together if not for their kids?"
  She encourages reaching out via social and the iHeart app.

Tone: Honest, empathetic, relatable—unafraid to challenge taboos yet always supportive of growth and authenticity.

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For the full interviews, search for Ari Lennox’s “Vacancy” on streaming platforms, and Michelle Obama’s "In My Own Opinion" podcast episode with Craig Robinson, Sterling K. Brown, and Ryan Michelle Bathé.

Transcript

[Lauren LaRosa]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[AT&T Announcer]

Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying Connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong. Even when life gets busy. Some of the most life giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees a network you can rely on. So you can focus on the moments and people that matter the Most. That's the AT&T guarantee. AT&T connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.comguarantee for details.

[Clayton Eckerd]

You know Roald Dahl, he thought up Willy Wonka in the bfg. But did you know he was a spy? In the new podcast, the Secret World of Roald Dahl, I'll tell you that story and much, much more.

[Michelle Obama]

What?

[Clayton Eckerd]

You you probably won't believe it either.

[Stephanie Young]

Was this before you wrote his stories? It must have been okay. I don't think that's true.

[Clayton Eckerd]

I'm telling you, I was a spy. Listen to the Secret World of Roald Dahl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd. In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's the Bachelor.

[Stephanie Young]

But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him.

[Clayton Eckerd]

If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.

[Stephanie Young]

That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one night stand would end in a courtroom.

[Michelle Obama]

The media is here.

[Stephanie Young]

This case has gone viral.

[Clayton Eckerd]

The dating contract.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you.

[Clayton Eckerd]

This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

[Stephanie Young]

I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to Love trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimagina tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story?

[Lauren LaRosa]

Evidence has been made to fit. The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed.

[Stephanie Young]

What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe?

[Lauren LaRosa]

Oh my God. I think she might be innocent.

[Stephanie Young]

Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Clayton Eckerd]

Next Monday, our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards are happening live at south by Southwest. This is the biggest night in podcasting. We'll hon best in podcasting from the past year and Celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry.

[Ari Lennox]

And the winner is.

[Clayton Eckerd]

Creativity, knowledge and passion will all be on full display.

[Stephanie Young]

Thank you so much, iheartradio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome.

[Clayton Eckerd]

Watch live next Monday at 8pm Eastern, 5pm Pacific [e-mail] or the Veeps app. Let's get to it.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I'm the homegirl that knows a little bit about everything.

[Ari Lennox]

And everybody knows she don't lie about that.

[Stephanie Young]

Right?

[Michelle Obama]

Lauren came in hot.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Hey, y'. All, what's up? It's Lauren LaRosa. And this is another episode of the Latest with Lauren LaRosa. This is your daily dig on all things pop culture, entertainment news, and all of the conversations that shake the room. Now checking in behind the scenes of the grind. We are literally on a countdown. So we hit the road. I've been talking to you guys about this every single episode, but really excited for a conversation that I'll be joining Now. I can give you guys a little bit more details. So if you will be at south by Southwest this weekend coming which is the weekend of March 15, I will be on a panel with a health professional and artist, music artist Sierra on Saturday, March 14th. And we'll be having a conversation about HIV prevention and how entertainment and culture helps us to start having the conversations that, like, we don't want to have to make sure prevention is a thing that that's actually happening. And I'm really excited for that conversation. Y' all know I love to talk, love to get into the things, but I love when real conversations intertwine with culture, pop culture. I think that we underestimate the impact that we have, especially in areas like media, hip hop, R and B. I really think we underestimate how much we make things cool and how much we make things the so excited to be on this panel and be having this conversation. And that's what my behind the scenes of the grind has been like. I've been kind of like just resting and getting through work and resting as much as I can because this weekend, baby, we are outside. But speaking of conversations and how culture and impact and real conversations come together, let's get into a few real conversations that are happening right now that we just cannot ignore. So our girl Ari Lennox, she was over in LA on effective immediately with my bro DJ head and my sis Gina views, and they were having a conversation about music and where she is in life today and her new project vacancy now the project's fire. We interviewed her on the breakfast club Go and check that out in full on Netflix if you have not already. But the project is all about this, like, back and forth struggle of I found someone. This person is making me feel good. I'm not vacant anymore. My space is occupied. And then boom. This person is toxic. It makes no sense. This person is leaving me empty and I'm walking away and now I'm vacant again. And now I'm here and I'm looking and I'm trying to figure it out, and I'm inviting new people into my space. It's that tug of war that dating actually is, where it's like you figure out what your space is that you even want occupied. You figure out how you want to do it. You figure out who you want to do it, right? Like who you want to occupy your space. But you're. It's so up and down about what that. Who looks like. Like, I think most people don't like having these conversations when it comes to the woman's side of things and women being actually able to get out there and date. We talked about Lori Harvey and Damson Idris on this podcast and, you know, a big splash that they made in the news recently with their dating life. If you didn't listen to that episode, go back and take a listen. And the reason why I bring up Lori Harvey in this is because people love to give Lori Harvey such a hard time for dating, for going out dating people, figuring out what she likes, what she doesn't like. And I mean, it's a lot more public because she is the daughter of Steve Harvey and she's become a figure and a fixture and culture of her own. And she's also dating men who are high profile and very well known as well too. But every time I hear someone complain about her and a dating situation or the fact that she may have moved on or may have broken up with someone, I'm like, Woody, like, she's human. That is how you figure out what not being vacant in your space looks like. You got to figure out who you want to check in and who you need to check out. So Ari Lennox is on that journey right now. And the album literally is the R B neo soul soundtrack to that, right? So she's, you know, over on effective immediately with DJ Head and Gina views, and they get into a conversation about just dating. And, you know, from having a conversation myself with Ari Lennox, I feel like she's in a season of accountability that I haven't seen from her. And I've been a fan of her for A very long time. And I'm not mad at it whatsoever. And I don't know why it's making people so upset. But here's what she had to say about the fact that she chooses toxic men over nice men who would treat her nice, and that's why she thinks she isn't married. Let's take a listen.

[Ari Lennox]

I think I have a thing for toxic energy. So I. I think there's still some more healing that I need to do. Because when I look back on all of these energies, it's a shame. I. I gave them so much time, and there were sweet energies that I didn't. And so now I see those sweet energies, getting married and starting families. I'm just like, dang, that probably could have been me. If I recognize the security in those individuals at the time. And like, now I'm like, yeah, I'm definitely feeling that now. I'm aware that there's something going on, there's something wrong.

[Lauren LaRosa]

What do you think it is that attracts you to, like, toxic energy?

[Ari Lennox]

I think they just seem really exciting at first. The chemistry is incredible. And they don't even always be fine. It's not even that. Like, they're sexy or something. I mean, well, they're sexy, but they don't be the finest things I've ever seen. Yeah, it's just an energy. It's. Sometimes it's convenience. What we talk about a lot of those. The sweeter energies that I felt like, weren't for me. I felt I could see myself falling asleep a little bit on the phone. So I don't know if that's like, if boring is good or not. Like, I'm trying to figure out what that means. Like, it's the thrill.

[Stephanie Young]

Yeah.

[Lauren LaRosa]

It's the thrill of it.

[AT&T Announcer]

Yeah.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Can I just say that I don't know any woman who has not been through this phase of her life? Like, I. I don't. Maybe some more drastic than others. Right. Like, maybe some, you know, have allowed more than others, have stayed in situations longer than others, you know, are. Are in this mood, in this phase, a little bit older than others. Because I know me right now, myself, the relationship I'm in, it couldn't have been that. Like, it couldn't have been, oh, my God, you had a nice guy. I don't want to be with you because it's boring. No. Like, I am at a point where, yes, I do. I definitely need someone that is, like, gonna get me in check and gonna get me together. Okay. Because I can get. I could take it there. But I'm also just valuing and loving on myself so much differently than I was when I thought that that type of thing was like, it for me. And I thought that was cute. My, like, how I am about myself today wouldn't even allow me to. To entertain the type of energy that Ari Lennox is talking about. But I don't knock her for being there because I was there and in me being there and once I started to come up out of it, like. And it's not that. And it's not that the relationship I'm in right now or the marriage I will be in with, you know, my. My partner now, it's all the way perfect whatsoever. But the fact that we as women, and so many women I know have been through this felt like if things were good, if we were being loved on the right way, there's something wrong. And I still have my moments. Don't get me wrong. Like I said, my moments where I'm random, like, you really love me, like, you tell me you love like. And it's. And it's so crazy. Nothing's wrong. Like. Like, it's like walking outside on a 90 degree day with their sun and no rain. And you're dressed for the rain because it's just like, well, I know it rains in the world, so I'm gonna just dress like this. Like, that's literally what that's like. And I don't know why our mind and our psyches do that to us as women. And I think, you know, if I'm being honest with you, coming out of the, like, that mental space and that. That aura that Ari Lennox is talking about, you get so traumatized by manipulation and it becomes such a. A consistent pattern of like, this is too good to be true. And I think it's not even about, like, manipulation from men in relationships because, you know, some people listening to this will be like, never been there, never been that, never experienced that. Sometimes that comes from life. Like, I don't know about y', all, but I know even in life, like, there are times where I'm like, God, you doing your thing a little bit too much. Like, what's about to happen, what's going on? And the fact that we even question that, as if we're not supposed to have good things in life when you work for them or, you know, when you face it through your journey the way that you were supposed to or just, you know, like, you show up for God, he gonna show up for you is insane. If you study for your test, and you do well on your test, you wouldn't go and ask your teacher, like, why do I got an A? You crazy? But we do it anyway. And I think watching people be upset at our Lennox for making these comments, I'm like, I wish the world was a lot more honest about the things that we actually go through as human beings. Because what I love about Ari Lennox in this conversation is. And in any conversation that I'm seeing her in throughout this, like, you know, this accountability phase that she's in, it's just very honest, and it's very. It's not even about trying to be relatable. It's really just honest. And I think when you get to the point where, like, you could be honest with yourself to, like, literally so honest with yourself, where even if you're still doing the things that you're having to sit yourself down and be like, girl, you crazy about, that's a different level of, like, transition and growth that's about to happen in your life.

[Stephanie Young]

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[Clayton Eckerd]

You know Roald Dahl, the writer who thought up Willy Wonka, Matilda and the bfg. But did you know he was also a spy?

[Stephanie Young]

Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.

[Clayton Eckerd]

Our new podcast series, the Secret World of Roald Dahl is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans.

[AT&T Announcer]

What?

[Clayton Eckerd]

And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either.

[Stephanie Young]

Okay, I don't think that's true.

[Clayton Eckerd]

I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelts, played poker with Harry Truman, and had a long affair with a congresswoman? And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids? The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roald Dahl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton ECKERD and in 2022 I was the lead of ABC's the Bachelor.

[Stephanie Young]

Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The Internet turned on him.

[Clayton Eckerd]

If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.

[Stephanie Young]

But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral.

[Clayton Eckerd]

The Dating Contract Agree to date me,

[Stephanie Young]

but I'm also suing you.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Please Search Warrant this is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

[Stephanie Young]

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped this season. An epic battle of he said, she said and the search for accountability in a sea of lies.

[Lauren LaRosa]

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[Stephanie Young]

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[Lauren LaRosa]

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[Lauren LaRosa]

Now let's get to Michelle Obama and her brother Craig Robinson and the conversation they had with Sterling K. Brown and his wife Ryan Michelle Bath. Now both Sterling K. Brown and Ryan Michelle Bath are actors. No, they act and the conversation was very wide range. It was about an hour long conversation on the In My Own Opinion podcast. And what I love about Michelle Obama's conversation is exactly what I'm telling you guys. I took from Ari Lennox, like, and people, they, I hate to put these words together. Drag and Michelle Obama because I feel like she's our forever first lady. Don't ever play with her. But what people love to drag Michelle Obama about in this phase of her life where she's honest and talking us through things as a human, not just as a first lady, but as a human who has had children, who has been married 30 plus years, who has loved the same man for 30 plus years. She tells the truth. So they're having the conversation about Michelle Obama. She's been very vocal about the fact that there were 10 some years that were not good with her and Barack Obama. But comparing that to y' all the other years, it was worth the fight. And in having that conversation, Sterling K. Brown acts. Michelle Obama basically did she did they only make it through because of the kids, which is, which is a common thing as well too with married couples, especially once you've already put the time in and you know all the things. And I thought that this was a very, like, he was very bold for asking this question, but when I heard him ask it, I'm like, I've never thought about that with her and Barack Obama because it seems like, I don't know, like their former president, former first lady, they have the perfect family. Like there was no other option but for them to figure it out. But that's not true. They're humans. Let's take a listen to how Michelle Obama answered that. If kids were not a part of the equipment in terms of like, do you think that some of the tough

[Michelle Obama]

times may have led to a separation that didn't. Sometimes without kids, some of the tough times wouldn't happen. Right. Facts. And this is why I say, look, it's great when it's just you two, you know, and because there really isn't challenges with division of labor because everybody can be their own individual people. You go off, do your movie, Yay.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Yay.

[Michelle Obama]

We have our separate lives and then it's romantic. We get back together. The thing that makes that harder is when those beautiful, wonderful, lovely kids that we all want and love, they show, they show up with their own agendas, you know, with their own needs. And now it's the first major joint project that you have to do together. And that's when the hard starts, you know. So I think a lot of our hard was because of the kids, who we love deeply, very much so. But I think without it, without them, you Know, a lot of the hard things don't come up. All right? Because you could. You can go to the gym all you want when there are no diapers to be changed.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Thank you.

[Michelle Obama]

You know, you could do whatever you want. Who's driving? Do you know how to talk? The Michelle's have been talking. Do you know how to make a dental appointment? Do you know where they go to the doctor? Do you know their doctor's name?

[Lauren LaRosa]

You started it.

[Michelle Obama]

Look, the level of muscle that Barack and I have in our marriage is earned. It's earned over time, and it's only gotten better. And I think that's the point. It gets better, and then if you quit too soon, you'll rob yourself of the success of the better, the work that goes in.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Love it. Love it. And that's the duality of growth and womanhood and love. It's like. Cause even Ryan, Michelle Bath and Sterling K. Brown, they have a podcast called We Don't Always get along. And they're literally on Michelle Obama's podcast with her and her brother Craig and are talking about the fact that, like, it doesn't always feel good, the conversations, the relationship, a lot of things. It doesn't. But they figure it out. And they even talk about at one point where, like, one person might check out and be like, I ain't doing this. No, not happening. I'm good. But there's still one person there fighting for the relationship. So basically what I'm trying to say here is leave my guard or Lennox alone. Everybody has their phases and their stages that they must go through, and a lot of us go through the same ones just with different people at different times of our lives. But I think once you get to this, like, stage of growth, we. We tend to forget. And I think that's what makes our Lennox so amazing as an artist is, like, she's just very honest about what she's dealing with, and it makes you relate to the music even more. Like, when I listened to the project, I knew. I'm like, oh, baby girl is dating. And she is trying to figure it out. And the only reason why I knew that is because I. I. Before getting into a relationship, I was dating. And I know what it's like to feel like, okay, I have this space, I have my boundaries that I've set up, and I'm allowing you to come into it. And I understand the reference of, like, comparing that to a hotel and checking in and checking out and, you know, fixing up the hotel and fixing up the rooms and fixing up what it looks like when people walk into your life, especially after other people walk out across the board, everybody's just trying to figure it out, y', all, period. That's it. That's all. Everybody is just trying to figure it out. And I appreciate the good conversations they're having in the midst of it. Let me know how y' all are feeling, though. Number one, are you where Ari Lennox is at? How do you feel about what she said? I want to hear from you guys. I'm Lauren LaRosa. Everywhere. L O r e n L o r o S a let's really talk about it. There is also a talk back feature on the I heart app. If you download the I heart app, you'll find the talkback feature there. You can literally go there, click the talkback feature, and talk back to me. My lowriders. I want y' all to get outside in the streets, in the tweets. I want to hear it. Ari Lennox, Is she crazy? Do you feel her? Why are people so upset? And on the other end of things, on the married end of things, do you think that Barack Obama and Michelle Obama, after hearing everything that Michelle Obama has said very openly about the issues that they went through, if there were no babies involved, would we have had the first family that we had in that White House during the time? I'm Lauren LaRosa. This has been another episode of the Latest with Lauren LaRosa. Tell you guys every single episode. Look, y' all could be anywhere with any old body talking about all of the things, but you guys choose to be right here with me every single day. My lowriders. I appreciate you guys. I'll catch you in my next episode. This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.