C (7:09)

When I was preparing for this interview.

A (7:10)

Yes.

C (7:11)

I realized that there were kind of two ways I could go about it. Option one would be more OG Call Her Daddy days. You know, talk Some relationships. Try to ask you a couple questions.

B (7:27)

About what Barack Obama wants to get reports on.

C (7:31)

But then there's the other side of this show, which is option two, which is hard but important conversations that are relevant to young women and girls all around the world. And so as juicy as option one would be.

D (7:49)

Or not.

C (7:50)

Or not actually fair.

A (7:51)

It could have been like, that's that.

C (7:53)

I'm like, oh, right, fair. I just thought about it. I'm like you sitting here today as one of the most influential and powerful women in the world. It would be too great of an opportunity not to have you impart your wisdom on the next generation who is watching and listening today.

B (8:14)

So we're going with option two now after this.

A (8:16)

They didn't get into the real things, okay. They get on into what is going down lately. So Michelle Obama has always been such a prominent for women and for girls on top of a ton of other things, right? Like education, underserved communities, health, like so many things. But the platform that in the stance that she has had to take when it comes to being a black woman, and I mean, if we're being honest, becoming the national poster child of the least respected person in the world or in America, is the black woman seeing that on a national platform as Michelle Obama gracefully and so fashionably. Oh, my God, it just pissed me off. Making me think about it. And so fashionably gave these people the time of day as our first lady. And once I gave these people the time of day, I mean, some of y' all did not deserve her at all. From the fashion to the elegance to baby, the high roads that she deserved to take. I'm so glad that when she was there, we did as much as we could to be outside sweet swinging about Michelle Obama. And she deserved every cousin coming off the porch. Y' all did not deserve her whatsoever. But they, they get into that almost instantly. The. I mean, the platform is that as we mentioned, but that has just been such a big calling card for Michelle Obama, especially because she was so publicly ridiculed. Let's take a listen to Michelle Obama on just what her life was like in the White House and what that dragging publicly all the time felt like, looked like and would have turned into.

C (9:56)

You have talked a lot about how we live in a world where a woman's appearance and our bodies are overly scrutinized and objectified. What was that experience like for you? And how did you navigate it day to day and not let it distract you?

B (10:12)

You know, when Barack announced, I was hesitant, but once I was on board. I was on board and I knew that I needed to be out there campaigning and introducing the world just to him, but to us. We worked hard at the grassroots and understood that we'd have to meet people in their homes and in their communities. But as my popularity rose, I was being covered more. After all this great conversation and connection, the. The top of the article would be she was wearing. And it got worse as we got better. So I understood it as campaign tactics, right? What better way to beat a moving engine is to try and slow it down. And so with women, what do we do with women? We start sort of talking about their strength and their. So then I became, I was angry, not passionate. It was a rolling thing. And I attributed it totally to politics. And I didn't write it off to what people really thought because I had months and months of understanding that the people in those auditors auditoriums and in those school buildings and at those speeches, they, they understood who I was.

A (11:27)

Okay, so first of all, let me just say this is what I mean by as nervous as I was for Michelle Obama to step into a freely talk space and into media, I am like so inspired by her resilience because even here in this interview I'm like, so many people are gonna grab this and they gonna twist, turned it upside down. They love to say she's still whiny, she plays the victim card or whatever. But what this does for women in spaces who really understand what she is talking about, baby, it's like the feeling of. Let me. Okay. The best way I can describe, you know, people be like, I felt seen. The best way I can describe feeling seen by watching Michelle Obama talk about being a black woman who cared about her hair, her nails and her outfits while also put a cape on and went and saved the world and came home and was mommy and wife every day. For a woman, it's like coming home after a 12 hour day and taking off your heels and your bra. For a man, it's like coming home every day after working a 12 hour shift. Dinner is prepared, the kids asleep and baby girl about to tuck you in asleep, if you know what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying, right? It is such a refreshing like a, like you can breathe moment to hear her be like. And she's so on. Oh my God. When she said she had so much to say but she wanted to make sure that, you know, the clothes and the things that she were wearing didn't take over what she was like the messaging and what she Wanted to say it is like the tightrope that you have to walk as a woman, especially as a black woman, too, because normally you're like one of few, one of first Michelle Obama in these spaces.

B (13:19)

So.

A (13:21)

Or to reach certain heights. And even if you're not the first person to reach that height at like, the company you work at or within an organization or whatever, maybe even family wise. Like, I'm first generation when I say that, I have to be clear because a lot of people talk about immigration. I'm not, not. I'm not first like a, you know, first born in the US in my family, but I'm first generation. Like, I'm first generation HBCU graduate in college, graduate. I am first generation for a lot of the different, like, just life, success that I'm seeing. So that makes me, I'm first generation for a lot of other things just under those brackets. Every time I mess up something or every time I intend for one thing to happen one way, or there's a, you know, you know, like she talks about, like, with the clothing, like, you put on an outfit and you're like, okay, I'm showing up powerful and together and I feel good. But I've, you know, I've been on platforms where it's like, you do all of that and when you leave, the only thing people are talking about is what they did or did not like about. You get closed and it's like you miss the whole message. Do you understand that, like, this opportunity can and will continue and will and has changed the lives of these people that I'm telling you, didn't make it to where I made it to. And that is all you care about. I care because I have to. Like, I mean, and honestly, it's nothing wrong with caring just because it's a passion as well. I know for me, like, I like to look good. You feel good when you look good. But also I'm into fashion. I love the stories that you could tell through clothing. I love using articles of clothing as my story and like, you know, conveying how I'm feeling. I just like showing up looking damn good, period. But also, I can't afford to not show up looking good because the conversation around a black woman, when she shows up somewhere, hair not together, clothes not together. I remember they labeled. This was some years back during Barack Obama's presidency. But I remember Michelle Obama being labeled one of Barack Obama's baby moms. Let me look up the guy's name who called her that. Yes. Fox News anchor Ed Hill. Had to apologize after he referred to Michelle Obama as baby mama. You know that fist bump photo? Like that moment that we always refer to when we couples goals. Barack Obama, Michelle Obama. He referred to that moment as a terrorist fist jab. So not only can she not show up cute, but she can't even fist bump and love her man. Love on her man. Right? Like, that's just not a thing. But there's just always been so much conversation about Michelle Obama and the clothing that she wears and how she wears it. And don't get me wrong, the first lady in the White House said there's always a lot of attention to what they wear, what they do, how they present. Very different conversation, though, when it came to a black woman in the first, I don't. And when I read Kamala Harris's book 107 days, 104 days, I said both, because I don't remember which it is. I think it's 107. She talked a lot about how once she got into the White House, just as vice president, right? This is the first time that they've ever seen a black woman vice president, right? How she realized, oh, this ain't set up for me. They don't even know what to do with me. They don't know how to talk about me. They don't know how to tend to me. They don't know how to defend me. It was a lot of that. It was. Everything was criticized. Michelle Obama got it worse. I won't even say got it worse. Michelle Obama got it first. Literally, she got it first. So at that point, you know, Kamala Harris kind of had, like, we all knew what to expect when Michelle Obama and Barack Obama were headed into the White House. If you black, you knew, like, okay, great, they're there. We need this. But, baby, these people about to make. Try and make their lives hell. These mayonnaise people, they ain't gonna like it. Kamala Harris kind of, you know, she got a chance to see all of that. And I think at some point, you would kind of assume that the White House would kind of prepare for those things, especially on, like, the press side and the communication side. And Kamala Harris talked a lot about not feeling supported by the White House's team. And, you know, even down to Michelle Obama talked about her resume and the fact that no one knew it. They didn't know that she had done all these amazing prestige, Ivy League things. She was just Barack Obama's wife. And the first lady in the White House gets that. You know what I'm saying, like, I don't. Honestly, I can't even tell you much about a lot of the first Ladies and where they've went to school besides Jill Biden, because she's from Delaware. I know that. You know, I know her platform. I know all the things. But just historically, I think women in the White House, there's always been, depending on who you're talking to, a certain way that they're looked at and critiqued. But I don't think people even gave Michelle Obama the chance. At least with Jill, you know, there was conversation about the things she was doing. Michelle Obama's headlines about, you know, people calling her. Let me read it verbatim. An ape in heels. There was a West Virginia official who called her ape in heels. Those headlines were bigger. I need to get that official's name so we can put them on notice right here, right now. But those headlines were bigger than any of the work that Michelle Obama was actually doing. And she talked about the fact that, like, no one cared about a resume. Let's take a listen to that.

B (18:34)

How do you know what to do in this role? And to me, it was clear that.

A (18:39)

Oh, my God, you. You don't.

B (18:41)

You don't know anything about what I did. Before I came here, I went to Princeton and Harvard. I mean, I practiced law. I was an assistant to the mayor in Chicago. I ran a nonprofit of 501c3. I was a vice president for community relations at the University of Chicago hospitals. I was a dean of students. I was like, all of that just disappeared in the course of this whole election. And you now see me as just Barack Obama's wife. I shied away from fashion leading the conversation, but I knew I couldn't. I didn't completely control it. So let's lean in. Let's lean in with what we do. Let's make sure that we have a plan and a strategy in place for how fashion, just like everything we did in the White House, would have meaning and impact.

A (19:39)

Now, I thought that this was, like, such a positive spin on it, and if anybody knows me, I'm like, everything black. Like, if we could do black designers, if we can. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I always want to try and platform people because I'd be needing to be platformed. Like, I understand what it can do for someone to, you know, lend a tag on Instagram or tell a friend about them, or even if none of that, just pay for the services and the businesses. Whatever you can do, right? Michelle Obama talked about how when she was in the White House because she was getting so much scrutiny, because she was getting so much scrutiny for what she would wear. She was like, let's be intentional. And that intention, honey, ate down. Okay. I remember there would religiously be a push for people to cover Michelle Obama's outfits as they do the first lady. But what was so beautiful about it is when you got to see the outlets and a lot of them didn't even know what was happening. But if you were on our side of things, you knew exactly what was going on. Like, I would see Michelle Obama like pop up in various dresses and I'd be like, oh, that is fire. And then I would go researching to be like a designer from Johannesburg, Makai O. And a lot of times she like make sure made sure she leaned in on like women designers. Like, that was like a big thing of hers as well too. There's so many different lists of Michelle Obama and black designers. But there is one moment, and I know Sergio Hudson also worked with Kamala Harris as well too. And Laquan Smith. Shout out to Laquan Smith. She wore Sergio Hudson a few times. But the moment that I remember the most is when Michelle Obama popped out the Joe Biden's inauguration when they were saying goodbye to the White House and she had on that purple baby and that side part was parting and she popped out with them leather gloves. The girls that get it got it. We knew Sergio Hudson. And what I love about this is if you're not in the fashion world, it might not be something that you care about, but I'mma break it down anyway. When you put on a designer and you're a person like Michelle Obama and you have outlets like the Cut, Vogue, Essence, Fashion Bomb Daily, all of these places covering Refinery 29, covering what you're wearing, that puts this designer in such a different conversation and elevates them. Like it literally can take a designer from a person who is like just trying to figure it out because of their love of clothes to one of the biggest designers in the world, especially in the couture space, because Sergio Hudson is a designer. We've talked about him here on the podcast Shout out to Sergio Hudson. We went to his Fashion Week show last season. Not last season, last February, I believe it was. Or no, it was September. It was last season. September, New York Fashion Week. We went to Sergio Hudson's show and he is so big on supporting black talent, but he talks a lot about people showing up and supporting each other. And it's because he's had so many people show up and support him, including Michelle Obama. The couture world itself, which he talks a lot about, is not the most friendly. And couture is, like, the stuff that is more expensive, harder to get to. It just. It's. It's. It's. It ain't for everybody. It's not the most friendly to black people. People of color in general. Black people specifically, especially designers, models, all of that. So when you got the first lady of the United States wearing your clothing, can nobody tell you nothing? These other fashion houses can't sit next to you? It does. So much. So to hear her talk about taking this moment that was so. I know it had to be so hard for her. To this day, there's no way she doesn't still deal with just the cause. You begin to, like, start really thinking so much about everything, like, uh, how does this look like? You, uh. Uh. Like you're so timid about things you would never have been timid about, even unconsciously, even with her being as, you know, prominent and confident as Michelle Obama is. Like, there's no way that you're not. They used to be on her hair, everything. I'm just happy to hear it. I'm happy to hear her talk about this every single time. I don't care how many times she talks about it and anybody that's upset about it. This is not the interview for you. Every single time she talks about it, I'm happy to hear because I think it inspires people in the space, in all different spaces, to just push through. You're good, and you're doing something for other people. Like, I read this ESSENCE article. They're the two black women who do Michelle Obama's hair. They talked about. They did an article based on, like, you know, meeting the hairstylist behind Michelle Obama. The former first lady's hair looks and her hairstylist, Najiri Rodway and Yain Dim two. Hopefully I'm saying that right. Y' all don't be disrespected. I get every name wrong. My bad. I tried. But they talked a lot about, you know, just what the recognition meant, because Michelle Obama did a lot to make sure. Not even did a lot. She just did what she was supposed to do to make sure these women people knew that these black women were behind some of the hairstyles that we loved, and they talked about how it meant the world to them. Here's a quote from the article. This little black girl inside of me is jumping for joy because representation is. Representation was always Important to her, seeing someone who looks like you matters. Beauty and identity are deeply connected for all people. I'm proud to be a part of a historic body of work that shows how our hair allows us to express ourselves freely. Then they ask, you know, hair is culture, community and care. Essence X. How was working with Michelle Obama deepened your understanding of this? And the woman say, our hair is our identity. Helping my clients move confidently through the world is an honor. The significance that comes from how women respond to seeing Michelle in braids. Curls, baby. I remember seeing Michelle Obama in braids and I was like, I know that's right. You better slit them, baby. Edges, curls, blowouts. It just reinforces that they are seen. And that's what we opened up this episode talking about. People be like, oh, my God, I feel seen. It's just like, you know, sometimes we would be like, I need to go and find myself. And it's like, okay, you about to, like, basically you ain't got nothing figured out and you trying to figure this whole thing out and you're probably about to go do a whole bunch of drugs. And that's fine if that's what you do, but you just need to take that time for yourself and, you know, go do what you're going to do over there. We're not jokingly saying it. When we say it about Michelle Obama, it is not that, oh my God, I need to gap year feel seen. It is not the oh my God, I feel seen in her. It is the I feel seen. Like, if we really getting down to the shits of like, what it is like navigating through the world every single day as a black person, baby, this family, they are the billboard of it, period. And everything that they've had to put up with and sis is still rising. Okay, let's end this with Michelle Obama talking about when we go high. And then let's talk about when she says sometimes we go a little bit of schmedium. Because honestly, these last couple days, I've been feeling like I need to go low. I've been too high, I need to go lower so people can leave me the hell alone.

D (26:41)

That when someone is cruel or acts like a bully, you don't stoop to their level. No, our motto is when they go low, we go high. Here's the thing, going high is a, it's a, it's a long term strategy, you know, because the truth is, is that going high is about thinking, about trying to really get to the real answer. Because a lot of times the low answer is just our immediate instinct. It's just, I'm mad and I just want to punch you in the face. But it doesn't solve anything. And if we're all thinking about what the agenda is, which is getting to a place where we live in a country that we're proud to pass on to our kids, going high is the only way we get there. It's our patience. It's our tolerance. It's our belief in honesty and truth. It's our belief, belief in hard work. It's not about getting somebody back. It's not about the immediate clap back. The immediate clap back is just for your own selfish purpose right there in the moment. And rarely does it solve anything. So I think, yes, we have to be a people that keeps going high. Now, going high doesn't mean you don't acknowledge the pain, but how do you react?

A (28:00)

Thank y' all for tuning in. It's Lauren LaRosa. This is the latest with Lauren LaRosa, your daily dig on all things pop culture, entertainment news, and all of the conversations that shake the room. Now, I tell you guys, every single episode, my low riders, y' all could be anywhere with anybody having these conversations and talking about all of the things. But you guys choose to be right here with me, and I appreciate you guys for that. I'm gonna catch y' all in my next episode. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.