← The Breakfast Club
The Breakfast Club
INTERVIEW: Arsenio Hall On Capturing Culture, Breaking Boundaries, Life's Lessons + More
01:07:20
Loading summary
Transcript289 lines
- [00:00]
Lauren LaRosa
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
- [00:05]
Charlamagne Tha God
Hold up. Every day, I wake up. Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club. Y' all finished or y' all done?
- [00:11]
DJ Envy
Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne, the guy. We are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRosa's here with us as well. Now we got a special guest, a
- [00:21]
Charlamagne Tha God
legend, icon, an og, A legend in this game. Ladies and gentlemen, Arsenio Hall. Yes, sir.
- [00:32]
Arsenio Hall
How are you feeling, brother? I'm feeling great. I'm thanking God for the day that Charlemagne called me, because I wouldn't have done this without the voice of respect on the other end of the phone. I mean, I'm 70 years old. Could have written a book many times, but that's adult work. It's a really hard thing to do. And he talked me into it, and I'm so glad I did for my son and for my legacy, man.
- [00:59]
Charlamagne Tha God
I'm so glad you did, too, because I. I want to talk about your legacy today, man. You know, I always say that I got four entertainment icons, right? Jay Z, Clarence Avon, Petey Green, and Arsenio Hall. Wow. And I. I feel like people don't truly understand the risk you took to put black culture at the forefront at a time when nobody was putting black culture at the forefront.
- [01:21]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah, it was hard. I was coming along at a time when you go to Paramount and say, let's book Bobby Brown the first Friday night, because people won't have to work on Saturday. And to really show them what show this is, he has this song, Don't Be Cruel, and my prerogative. Let's let him break one at the top and one at the bottom. Well, Johnny Carson only does three minutes of a song at the end of the show. And I'm like, but I'm not fucking Johnny. I'm not Johnny Carson. So let's try this. But what was crazier is one of the ladies in the room said, and why would we give a model that much time? And I didn't realize that there was a Bobby Brown in the modeling world.
- [02:02]
Charlamagne Tha God
Oh, no. The makeup artist. Okay. Something. Right.
- [02:05]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah. So I didn't know her. And I realized my battle is that they have no idea what I'm about to do.
- [02:12]
Jess Hilarious
Yeah.
- [02:13]
Arsenio Hall
You know, you say Michael Bivins called me, and he got these four dudes, they're called Boys to men, and. Or Dr. Dre called me and this kid Calvin, and he wants him to come on and do this thing, and this is how, you know, I was not hip to it, but he wants to Freestyle. You'll just give him a beat and he'll just come out of his head with whatever is in the environment. And when his album is ready, then you can have him on to do 1, 2, 3 into the 4 with Dre, you know, And I'm like, okay, we call Snoop and he doesn't want to do the show. And, like, why? He says, you know, he's talking about the streets of Long Beach. I have respect, and I don't want to, you know, I don't want to lose the respect of the streets to do this late night television type stuff. You know, I had to go to the studio and talk him into it. This is a guy who. Snoop Dogg is more popular than Lassie
- [03:13]
Charlamagne Tha God
now, you know, the most popular dog ever. He was the most popular dog ever
- [03:18]
Arsenio Hall
and did not want to be on television. But I'll never forget, he walked in the door with a blue hockey jersey, I remember, and we gave him a beat. And I don't think we'd ever seen freestyle on television, you know, but those kinds of things. I wanted to. I saw a little kid on a tape do an Elvis impression, and I tell Paramount, I want to put this kid on. They say, well, you need tune in numbers, names. If you put Prince, you get a tune in number. You can put it in TV Guide two weeks ahead of time. That was the game back then. And if you put some unknown, you know, this is not Star Search. You can't put an unknown kid on until you maybe in the fifth year. And so I would put people on in the monologue. And I, I created this little spot where I put people on, but the kid was Bruno Mars and, and stuff like that. They didn't want Eddie Griffin because he's too edgy. So during the monologue, I said, oh, Eddie Griffin. Because Ed Sullivan used to point in the audience when I was a kid. There's Diana Ross, stand up, Miss Ross, you know. And so I'm like, eddie Griffin, what's up, man? Hey, come here for a minute. And it's not on the booking sheet. Paramount don't know what's going to happen. Now. That one backfired on me because Eddie Griffin did Michael Jackson snorting cocaine, you know, because he used to be a dancer. So he does that, you know, he does all this little step. And the lawyers had a hard time that next day at Paramount because basically he had done a routine on television about Michael Jackson snorting cocaine and dancing really well.
- [04:53]
Charlamagne Tha God
It was hilarious.
- [04:54]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah, it was hilarious.
- [04:57]
Charlamagne Tha God
You know, we'll never have that kind of monoculture ever again where everybody is tuned in, watching one thing at once. Because I remember all those moments. We had no DVRs back then. No On Demand. You couldn't go back and watch it on YouTube.
- [05:10]
DJ Envy
You had to turn it on before we go back to. Because I like to go back to the beginning so people understand the story.
- [05:15]
Charlamagne Tha God
That's why you buy the book.
- [05:16]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah, but that's why you're in this business.
- [05:18]
DJ Envy
But you know what? One thing I've noticed. I've watched a lot of your interviews in the last week or so. To my. When I look at your face, I see a light that comes on. Like, it's almost either a surprise light. Like, I'm surprised they really fuck with me. Like, you. Like, you look amazed when these guys. Like, I'm thinking to myself, arseno, no, no. He's the motherfucking og, the icon. And then another thing that popped in my head is, I know you retired. Maybe he's ready for that comeback. Because it's just the feeling, the energy. When I watch you come out and just the light and you're pointing at people and you're pointing at the bed.
- [05:49]
Arsenio Hall
I'm like, God damn it, bring Arsenio back.
- [05:52]
DJ Envy
So what is going through your mind when you are doing these press runs and you're doing tv?
- [05:56]
Arsenio Hall
What.
- [05:57]
DJ Envy
What's going through Arino's mind?
- [05:59]
Arsenio Hall
The light you saw, I mean, that was the light of a fan. The light of a kid from Cleveland who did a talk show in his basement. You know, I had a little record player. I'd put the record player on. There was a Temptations Greatest Hits album. I'd play Get Ready. I'd come out, I'd do a magic trick. I'd do a joke after taking the needle off the record. And I would entertain the kids in my neighborhood with this talk show. So you see a guy who's dreamed it all his life and can't believe that I've dreamed it into existence. My mother used to say, if you get good grades, you can go to Detroit and watch the Motown Review with your cousins. For $5, you could see Stevie Wonder. You could see the Temptations. And. And they give you two Pips. Well, sometimes for $5, what you want, right? And that kind of stuff. And you grow up. And then you tour with the Temptations. When they had to stand in on the Top Tour, Rick James wrote them that track. Then one day, Michael Bivens calls you and says, hey, I got four guys that idolize the Temptations. They're from Philly called Boys to Men, and. But their album's not ready yet. When it's ready, I want to come. I said, oh, I got an idea. If they love the Temptations, I got the Temptations on Thursday. Let them come and blend in with the Temptations. And you can imagine Paramount every night. It was a nightmare because they wanted less black. Now I got 15 niggas being saved. But my thing was, like, I'd rather do six years my way than 20 years Johnny's way. And Johnny dug the show because I wasn't trying to be him. There was never a competition. I was looking for friends of the show. I remember Alan King, a legendary old comic, called me, and he says, your show put out an offer to me, and I just want you to know I love what you're doing, but I'm a Johnny guy. And that's when it hit me. You got to get your guys. And so that's when I started trying to go for the audience that didn't have a talk show. And that made it work, you know, because I'd been the Ed McMahon figure on a thing called Thick of the Night, you know, where I was Alan Thick. And so I got to watch it go on, and I got to learn from Alan's experience. Don't try to be Johnny. Try to come up with an alternative. By the way, when I was working for Alan Thicke, there was a little boy. I brought Johnny Gill on Alan Thicke's show. I met Johnny Gill in Cleveland with Gerald Lavert. I bring Johnny Gill on the show, and he gets numbers and that let me know, hey, it's not that black people don't get numbers. It's that we ain't trying it. He came on with Stacy Latisol, and they did Perfect Combination on the side. There's a little white boy with a Cubs cap on. It's Alan Thicke's son, who always surfaced when there was R and B on the show. That was Robin Thicke. That's another example of how we know who we are, we know who we want to be. And that kid then knew he was Dwight. Marvin Gaye.
- [09:12]
Charlamagne Tha God
Is this book is your memoir closure for you, or is it correction?
- [09:16]
Arsenio Hall
A lot of correction. I don't know if I. Yeah, a little closure, too, because I loved putting that letter of resignation. A lot of people, barbershop journalists would say, well, you know, one night he snuck Farrakhan in there. Paramount didn't know about it, you know, and interviewed Farrakhan. And, you know, when the Fact is, Paramount has to greenlight that. They have to approve that. And so all the barbershop journalism you get. Cause basically, studios. People think studios are above the fray.
- [09:50]
Jess Hilarious
Yeah.
- [09:50]
Arsenio Hall
And the. And what they don't understand is that studios just like a relationship. You ever break up with somebody and then you hear that he said, I left her because I was sick of her bush. And, no, no, no. That. That nigga's lying. And unfortunately, business is like that, too. They want to position it so sexy their way. And they say, well, we'll. We'll come over Tuesday and we'll talk about crafting a release to the press of what we're going to do from here on. And then Monday, some come out, and you like you. You know, but I get to correct those kind of things. And. And, yeah, and have closure, too, because
- [10:32]
Charlamagne Tha God
Arsenio actually quit the show. And I remember when you first told me that, in my mind, I'm like, yeah, really?
- [10:40]
Arsenio Hall
When I heard. When I heard that. That little. That little thing, that whole tungular thing you did, I. I had my woman go in the garage, and I said, you got to find that letter. And she found it.
- [10:53]
Lauren LaRosa
Because there were so many people that believe that, though, that. That you didn't quit the show. If you had never written this book, how would you have ever, like, tried to clear it up any other place? Like, was that something that was sitting with you for a while?
- [11:05]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah. And I had a lawyer say, why do you care? Look at your bank account. Why do you care? And. And I'm like, because truth matters.
- [11:12]
Jess Hilarious
Yeah.
- [11:12]
Arsenio Hall
And I mean, forget television. We as a people, the Puerto Rican gentleman, also
- [11:22]
Charlamagne Tha God
talk about our board operation.
- [11:25]
Arsenio Hall
We as a people, have to be careful not to let truth be buried. Mine is insignificant. How about the history of our people and the way it's being changed, buried, and hidden from future children? Truth is important. It's important when it's on y' all side. So let it be important for us, too.
- [11:44]
Charlamagne Tha God
By the way, either way you left is gangster walking away because, hey, man, I want to do my black stuff. If it ain't working for y', all, it ain't gonna work for me. I'm out. Or. Yeah, I bought Farrakhan on 1. One time. Either way works.
- [11:56]
Arsenio Hall
Oh, yeah, yeah. You get a free bean pie for that second. You know, brothers be very, very supportive of you. But, you know, here's the deal. Here's how you can understand it. At the end of the day, entertainment is cool. But Quincy used to tell me the word business is larger than the word show and my ratings and my income were attached. The higher the number, the more money I get. When Letterman gets cbs, because I'm in syndication now, I'm on. I'm on bullshit stations most places, but my CBS stations help me succeed. When Letterman comes into the game and all my CBS stations leave at the end of their term, I'm like, what am I going to do now? And so basically, and the money goes down, and now you're like, well, I have to look at a movie every night and read a Jackie Collins book. I'm like, I don't know if it's worth it for a million a year, you know? And the bottom line is I dashed when the money also. I'm from Cleveland. I grew up down the street from Jim Brown, and I watched him leave on top. I watched him start doing movies when they were still calling him to the locker room. I always wanted to leave on top. So the bottom line, when the money changed a little bit and the numbers changed a little bit, and I didn't see a future for syndication because I'm like, they're gonna put somebody at abc. I'm gonna lose those affiliate, too. So eventually there's a Kimmel and there's a Letterman, and. And the bottom line is, the money changed. Let's do something else. Yeah, I've gotten six years out of this. I've been on the COVID of Time magazine. I spent two years knowing I was leaving and building a house on the beach. And bottom line is, I'm cool with how it all went down.
- [13:39]
Charlamagne Tha God
I was always shocked that Fox just didn't get into the late night game.
- [13:43]
Arsenio Hall
It's funny, I just sat with Conan o' Brien and he told me a cool story. He says he was in a lunchroom, a cafeteria at Fox, and he says, you were very nice to me. You won't remember me, but I was getting coffee and you showed me where other stuff was. What I didn't realize is while I was taking over for Joan Rivers and doing the Late show because she eventually got fired and her husband killed himself. You remember all that stuff. I'm doing the Late Show. I'm doing the last 11 weeks of her contract before I go to do Coming to America, Conan had been hired to create a show to replace me. So while I was there, they had decided that I wasn't the guy. Wow. And they created a thing called the Wilton North Report. I went and did Coming to America, and Paramount was like, when we finish this, if you want a talk show, let's Try it in syndication now. Something in syndication will never work again other than Byron Allen. No one's going to ever be able to make syndication money because the network's got it. You know, it. When I came into it, CBS and ABC didn't want to be in the Late Night Game, so they bought my show. You know, it was a perfect time. Life is all about timing.
- [14:52]
Jess Hilarious
Yeah.
- [14:52]
Arsenio Hall
And effort.
- [14:53]
DJ Envy
Now, you mentioned Coming to America, my favorite movie of all time.
- [14:55]
Arsenio Hall
Yes.
- [14:56]
Jess Hilarious
Right.
- [14:56]
DJ Envy
Let's talk about that movie and how it came together and whose decision it was, what made me think to play those parts.
- [15:06]
Arsenio Hall
Any kind of beverage that we got.
- [15:08]
Charlamagne Tha God
And Arsenio's memoir is out right now. Arsenio. Okay.
- [15:11]
Arsenio Hall
I really appreciate you. Sit. When I walked in and saw the monitor and this, and there was a shot from this way, so it was the book with Lauren's beautiful eyes behind. And I'm like, yes, I appreciate that. I thank you. Because they'll see it and they'll buy it.
- [15:27]
DJ Envy
That's right.
- [15:28]
Arsenio Hall
I'm sorry.
- [15:29]
DJ Envy
Coming to America. How did that movie come about? And what was the decision to play so many different characters for both you and Eddie?
- [15:35]
Arsenio Hall
Well, the decision for me to play characters was Eddie saying, yeah, him too. That's cool, you know, because he's the king, you know, but the movie, the. The movie was all hinged on the fact that America missed Eddie doing characters. They wanted that again. And I remember that.
- [15:58]
Charlamagne Tha God
Snl.
- [15:59]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah, yeah. And I remember his manager saying to me, they want Eddie to do character. So when you guys go to America, he'll be some of the people that you meet. And I'm like, that's really cool. Now I'm just a straight out standup. I'm not an impressionist and I'm not an actor. I was honored when he asked me to also do some characters, but that movie was supposed to be me as, you know, like a personal assistant or an undersized bodyguard. Coming to America from Zamunda with Eddie. He saw me do Stand up, and I did this bit about going to church in Chicago and going to the south side. And so I do this preacher character and he's like, that's all it is, man. You know, we do the prosthetics and you do that, and you're a preacher, you know, and of course, my. My dad was a Baptist preacher. And so at any moment I'm ready to preach.
- [16:56]
Charlamagne Tha God
I would laugh another day because I saw you post a video. He was like, I'm walking like the preacher and coming to America, but not Because I'm pretending
- [17:06]
Arsenio Hall
life is crazy because at one point, you're in your 20s, and you're standing in front of a mirror. Jess, you've been through this. Stand in front of a mirror, you're practicing the character. You're looking at how Red Fox walks, and you're breaking it down. And then one day you turn 70, and you realize, now, that's my walk. But if loving you is wrong, I don't want to be.
- [17:34]
Lauren LaRosa
I was gonna ask. Coming to America, I read somewhere. I think it was one of the interviews you did or something. It almost didn't happen, though, a couple times at first because of the pitch. And then there was an issue with Eddie Murphy and somebody on set.
- [17:44]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah, well, you know, they wanted him to do characters, and. And that made the treatment perfection. And he decided, different things I can do when we come to America. And the other thing you reference is he had a conflict with Landis, and Landis is a brilliant director, and they worked that out. Thank God.
- [18:06]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah, thank God.
- [18:07]
Arsenio Hall
My business manager thanks God every day for me.
- [18:13]
Charlamagne Tha God
Residuals got to be crazy, right?
- [18:14]
DJ Envy
Residuals, royalty.
- [18:16]
Arsenio Hall
Not as crazy as one might think.
- [18:18]
Charlamagne Tha God
Okay, okay.
- [18:18]
Arsenio Hall
You know, but because you see it all the time on VH1 and on things owned by Sky Dance. I guess it is now. By the way, the checks Eddie get are probably what you just described, you know, but the bottom line is I was a lucky actor to be involved. And mine sometimes would be 13 cent. What did you think about Eddie write this book?
- [18:43]
Charlamagne Tha God
Did you let Eddie read it?
- [18:45]
Arsenio Hall
Not yet.
- [18:46]
Charlamagne Tha God
Okay. Okay.
- [18:46]
Arsenio Hall
But when the. And that's another bit of advice you gave me. I think you said, Kevin Hart also agreed with you that in this culture, in this day and age, the book on tape, the audible book.
- [18:57]
Charlamagne Tha God
That's right.
- [18:58]
Arsenio Hall
Is very, very important. And that's when I was like, well, let me call you back, because I've talked to George Lopez and different people who have done this, and to sit every day for eight hours and keep it consistent in front of the mic and read this book. I mean, I used to read to my son before bed, but it was like, goodnight Moon. And the book was like, eight pages. You have a.
- [19:22]
Jess Hilarious
And I just did my audiobook, Arsenio. I'm so glad that you said it, because they say I can't read in here all the time, because the first day I went to read my book, I only read, like, 70 pages in five hours. But it's voice acting is not just reading. Like you reading Midnight Moon.
- [19:37]
DJ Envy
Six weeks to read that book.
- [19:38]
Jess Hilarious
He's a goddamn.
- [19:39]
Charlamagne Tha God
It's 204 pages.
- [19:40]
Jess Hilarious
He is. But I saw you even look into it. Like 204 pages.
- [19:46]
Arsenio Hall
And you were struggling.
- [19:47]
Jess Hilarious
But it was. It, you know, it's a co parenting memoir. So on some of the parts, I had to be emotional. Then they had to relive some of the stuff. And, you know, it's not just like regularly reading.
- [19:57]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah. You gotta sit there. I would sit there for eight hours a day. And you almost wanna do it. Like when you read to your kid.
- [20:05]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah.
- [20:05]
Arsenio Hall
You wanna have this intimate moment with the audience on the other side of that speaker and they think you're actually reading to them and talking to them and telling them this story. So a lot of care and performance. I saw Charlie Sheen talk about, you know, I was just going to read it, you know, and then I realized, well, let me step up. The actor part of this.
- [20:22]
DJ Envy
Let me.
- [20:23]
Arsenio Hall
And I listened to an interview he did. And so I put great care into it. And I'm glad you told me how important it was because I didn't want to do that shit. I now.
- [20:30]
Charlamagne Tha God
We want to hear you, Hall. Like, that voice is very familiar to us.
- [20:34]
Lauren LaRosa
I literally bought the audiobook just because I wanted to hear how you went in and out of things.
- [20:39]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah, yeah. Be because it's you. And you nearly bought it. I'm gonna send you one.
- [20:44]
Lauren LaRosa
No, I bought it. I bought the audiobook.
- [20:47]
DJ Envy
Yeah.
- [20:47]
Lauren LaRosa
I mean, we had this book as well, too. But I went and bought the audiobook because I was like, I want to hear him, like, get into it. And, you know, like all the emotion and just hearing your voice again just
- [20:56]
Arsenio Hall
was, you know, you know, emotion. It did take me back. There are interviews, not interviews. There are parts of the book based on interviews on the show. Meeting Sammy, you know, Sammy came in three waves in my life. There was a night he invited me to his house. Sammy used to have a gun collection. He showed me all his guns, and I love guns because my dad was a marksman and a former serviceman and.
- [21:23]
Charlamagne Tha God
Sammy Davis Jr.
- [21:24]
Arsenio Hall
Yes, sir. Yes. And so he had a theater in his house and he would have movie night and he invited us to movie night. So you go see a movie and it's surreal to knock at somebody's door and hear, I'll get it. Alto, you know, And Sammy comes to the door. And then I have him on the talk show later. And of course he has cancer, but he sings anyway. And I don't want to give away everything, but that story conjured up so many emotions because As a kid, I watched Sammy, this versatile man, this person, you know, people like Ali and Sammy was so important to me to see these talented, positive images. To see Ali during an interview after a fight, comb his hair and say, I'm so pretty, going, Howard, do it. You know, And. And those people were so important to me. So to have that moment at the end of his life and him to say, I'm gonna sing for you, man. Because I would sing for Johnny, and gets up and goes over spontaneously and says, time After Time in D. And my band, young people start playing Cyndi Lauper's song Time After Time. No, no, no, no. You know, it's a time after time I tell myself that I. And. And I realized how sick he was weeks later when he started to transition from this earth.
- [22:49]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah.
- [22:50]
Arsenio Hall
And so. So that was emotional stuff.
- [22:54]
Charlamagne Tha God
Had to be emotional, too, right? Oh, yeah, man.
- [22:57]
Arsenio Hall
The Richard Pryor stuff. Emotional also because he's the first person I learned from comedy was insignificant. I was gonna get there one way or the other. It's life that Richard taught me about, and it's watching his life near the end when you realize those lawyers and agents and a lot of hanger ons aren't around anymore, when you're sick, when they can't make money on you anymore. And it taught me to find someone you love and build your own bubble, because these people who get a commission aren't going to be here when they can no longer get a commission. And I remember near the end of his life, I used to go visit him, and there weren't a lot of people around like there were in the early days at the Comedy Store. Yeah, I got gas. Excuse me.
- [23:49]
Jess Hilarious
All right.
- [23:50]
Charlamagne Tha God
I thought you about to cry.
- [23:53]
Arsenio Hall
It's funny how those two things look alike. A fart and tears kind of manifest themselves on your face in the same way.
- [24:00]
DJ Envy
I wanted to know about coming to America, too. When y' all shot that, the sequel, what were your thoughts on it? Because it's so hard to top American. The first original version. It feels like some things just shouldn't be touched. What was your thoughts on that?
- [24:17]
Arsenio Hall
I need this check.
- [24:18]
Charlamagne Tha God
Okay.
- [24:19]
Arsenio Hall
No, no, but my thoughts on it, it. God, it was going back to this wonderful time in my life, you know, and doing the characters again. Hanging with Ed. We didn't get to do it here like the first one. The second one, Zamunda, is Atlanta. Here's what's interesting, Zamunda, the Palace is Rick Ross's house.
- [24:44]
Jess Hilarious
Oh, wow.
- [24:45]
Arsenio Hall
And that was kind of interesting, but I. I Enjoyed doing it. But I also knew that it was like trying to write a better song than Thriller, you know, it's very complicated. So winning has its traps, too. Yeah.
- [25:05]
Charlamagne Tha God
Because it's a bar that can't be set again.
- [25:07]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah. I don't know if, for my life, I don't know. A higher bar than coming to America. 1.
- [25:13]
Charlamagne Tha God
Did you feel like that when you came back with your talk show again?
- [25:18]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah. You know, that was. To do. The talk show reboot was an interesting time because I initially wanted to do a show that was scripted about a guy trying to get back in the game at a time because it had changed. You know, when I was doing research in the 90s, there was no cell phone, no Google, no search. We had a file cabinet. It's like, see if there's an article on Mel Gibson. I'm trying to find out how old he is. You know, that was a different time. So when I came back, I wanted to do a scripted version of Arsenio hall coming back to television. And basically, you know, they say no to us a lot because I don't know if that'll work. And then they do hacks, but. Because that's what it would. It would have been black hacks, you know, and they talked me into. Because people don't. People in Hollywood, they're not very imaginative. They go with what's worked before. You know, if you have different strokes. Gary Coleman. And it's working. And Envy pitches a show about him and his wife. Yeah. You know, you pitch them something, they'll say, we don't know, because that's new to them. But what they're looking for in that moment is another little black man that don't grow, you know, and they. You know, because they know that works.
- [26:34]
DJ Envy
Right.
- [26:34]
Arsenio Hall
So what do they do? They find Webster. Yeah. And that's how this town works. They. They want to be safe. No one wants to have. I mean, you can say no and not get fired to a pitch, but if you say yes, it better work, so executives try to keep it safe. And you just made me think of something.
- [26:51]
Charlamagne Tha God
Nobody thinks about what Emmanuel Lewis and Gary Coleman did for midgets. Well, you can't even think that people. Now, nobody talks about that.
- [26:59]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah. I don't know how many times.
- [27:05]
Jess Hilarious
But Todd Bridges wanting to mention.
- [27:08]
Arsenio Hall
Not Todd. You mean. You don't mean Todd.
- [27:10]
Jess Hilarious
No, because he said Gary Coleman and Todd Bridges. Emmanuel Lewis.
- [27:15]
Arsenio Hall
Oh, my bad. Yeah, my bad.
- [27:16]
Jess Hilarious
I'm sorry.
- [27:20]
Arsenio Hall
You know, they. They don't. Basically what they said is, let's let's just do the talk show again, like you. And unfortunately, the reason I left is the reason it can't work in syndication. Now it's even harder because there's Kimmel and all these guys. So they want me to compete against them on channel 29 in Phoenix, you know, and it. That. That's not going to work. And you don't have as much budget as the networks. I remember I wanted to book Will Smith and they said, well, Will Smith is not going to do it. He's going to do Fallon. And he can't do. He can't do another show after he does Fallon for two weeks or something. Some kind of rule. But basically I couldn't even compete with the offer because Fallon offered him the. The opportunity to ride into the Tonight show on a white horse.
- [28:08]
Charlamagne Tha God
Wow.
- [28:09]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah. Wow, wow, wow. Gosh. My first time around, Prince wanted a purple piano and it took a week for me to get it approved, you know, so, you know, budget wise, when I came back and did the re. You. You can't compete against Kimmel and Fallon and. And James Corden was riding around in a car singing with famous. I'm like, you know, I don't have that kind of budget. And you. You just can't do it now. You can't do a syndicated show now. I snuck in at a time when people didn't have product and I could sell them mine. But now everyone, every network has product, you know, and, and, and the reason I did syndication the first time around is I knew a brother was never going to get the NBC, ABC or CBS job. But I was like, I've been doing this in my basement since I was 12. I'm gonna get something.
- [28:58]
DJ Envy
That's right. And they said that, you know, at first it was hard for you to get guests, that you would actually have a security guard call you and be like, so and so's here.
- [29:05]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah, I would chase. Cause thank goodness the show was on the Paramount lot, on a film lot, versus, like, Colbert. Here is at the Ed Sullivan Theater right on the street. I was on a film lot where you could find out what was being shot and on the lot. And there was a dude at the gate who would let me know when certain people arrived. And I could be in front of Andy Garcia's trailer when he got there and ask him to come on or, you know, I mean, many guests. I would actually get the Paramount executives to let me come over and meet people. It's like, I hear Harrison Ford's having a meeting. Can I just come say Hello. And, you know, like, me and Charlemagne are in business on this book. Paramount was like, yeah, but just don't. Don't act like we invited you. Just pop by. Mr. Ford.
- [29:54]
Jess Hilarious
Yeah. Your life is very eventful. You got so much that you've done. You know what I mean? How could you fit all of that into one book? What are some. I know it's some things that did not make the book.
- [30:04]
Arsenio Hall
Absolutely that. Oh, man, Jess. It was so hard because I looked at books to find out what length they were. I looked at Barack Obama's book. I'm like, ooh, that's big. But I'm no Barack Obama. So let me. Let me try to give them as much as they can handle of this kid from Cleveland. Barbra Streisand's book is huge. I got two great Barbra Streisand stories. Didn't put in the book. I had to cut things down. I have a great new Kids on the Block story where they flew from Australia to come on the show. See, we didn't have Twitter. You couldn't go on Twitter and say what you have to say. You had to. If there was some shit that jumped off you. Donnie Wahlberg and the whole group flew back to America because they were being accused of lip syncing. And Donnie was like, arsenio, we're going to fly home. They may not like how we sound, but it's us, you know? And the Milli Vanilli thing had happened, so they wanted to come and defend themselves. I met Tommy Mottola in an Ivy, and he had a cassette tape with Vision of Love written on it, and he gave it to me. And he was with this young lady. You know, I joked with him, I said, who is that? The star of the Young and the Breastless. Who is. She's fine. You know? And it was Mariah. And I called him the next morning. I'm like, I couldn't believe that light that Envy talked about, Dog. When you first hear Mariah Carey and you realize she's not famous and this ain't. This ain't what Johnny does, and you are going to be able to present this woman to the world. That light is. Is shining while you sleep through your eyelids.
- [31:39]
Charlamagne Tha God
You know, we might need to do, like, you know, Charlie Murphy had the True Hollywood Stories. Oh, yeah, we might need to do the Arsenio Hall. True. Yeah, that would be dope. Put that out as a podcast or something. Animated or something.
- [31:50]
Arsenio Hall
That would be dope. Animated would be real cool. Would be really cool. Because then you can Imagine Bobby Brown performing my prerogative as an animated character.
- [31:59]
Jess Hilarious
Yeah, just use me for one of the voices. I'm real good at voice acting.
- [32:04]
Arsenio Hall
I hear you. I did Ghostbusters when I was young. I paid the rent as. Because the Winston Zedmore character. There's one black Ghostbuster. It's like back in the day they hired comics. Yeah, voice acting. Me and Dave Coulier, who's a comic and Full house. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I used to make my living doing that kind of stuff.
- [32:28]
Jess Hilarious
That's what's up.
- [32:29]
DJ Envy
Did you mind the spoof when people
- [32:30]
Arsenio Hall
used to spoof you?
- [32:31]
DJ Envy
I remember like the super long finger.
- [32:33]
Arsenio Hall
Oh, yeah.
- [32:34]
DJ Envy
Did you mind the spoofing back then?
- [32:35]
Charlamagne Tha God
By the way, all that's in the book Arsenio the Memoir, which is available everywhere. You buy books now?
- [32:39]
Arsenio Hall
Yes, sir. You know, here's the deal. First of all, if you're a comic, and I think Jess would agree with this, if you're a comic, you can't be sensitive to jokes about you.
- [32:53]
DJ Envy
Most comics are sensitive, though.
- [32:55]
Arsenio Hall
I mean, as humans, I think we're sensitive. But dude, there's an upside and a downside to every punchline. It's like I have extremely long fingers. But I remember as a little boy, as the pastor's son, I'd be standing next to my dad and old sisters in the church would shake my hand and, and they would hold on a little long and.
- [33:19]
Charlamagne Tha God
And.
- [33:20]
Arsenio Hall
How you doing, baby? And it's like you say, these fingers are gonna have an upside too at some point. You know, people are responding to these long ass fingers.
- [33:28]
Charlamagne Tha God
But the fingers are one thing though. But what about the ass Pause.
- [33:31]
DJ Envy
What?
- [33:31]
Charlamagne Tha God
Oh, remember when Keenan did that? Keenan had him with his long fingers and a big ass.
- [33:34]
Arsenio Hall
You gotta stop. Like you just.
- [33:37]
Charlamagne Tha God
Context. Forget your fingers. What about your ass?
- [33:41]
Arsenio Hall
That's another book for number seven. Scared me, but crazy. You get ready going to asses. Yes, I, I have a predominant derriere. And you know, a. If you're going to do jokes, you got to be able to listen to jokes.
- [33:58]
Jess Hilarious
Yeah.
- [33:59]
Arsenio Hall
And, and, and sometimes say, well first, sometimes you just say, that's funny, that's a funny. Then other times, like Dana Carvey, it was a sign of the times that I was going through. This guy created a character at SNL called Carcino. And the essence of the sketch was that Johnny was going to get a high top fade and start wearing bright double breasted suits. And so for me, you can always flip something into a positive. Now they're making fun of me. But at the same time, what they're really saying is, Johnny's gonna have to find a younger audience somehow, because that's what's up. Yeah, and. And so there's an up and a down to punchlines. But, yeah, you gotta be able to take it. You can't be too sensitive. How are you gonna be sensitive and then go to the Comedy Store and do five minutes on Tiger Woods?
- [34:52]
Charlamagne Tha God
That's true. You know, it's interesting when you talk about Dana Carvey, right? When you were at your peak, do you think people were loving Arsenio hall or the idea of what you represented, the youthfulness, the hip hop, the black.
- [35:05]
Arsenio Hall
My ego won't let me think that it was me. I think it was what I was doing and what it represented. But, you know, it's like when I talk about talking Alan Thicke into putting on Johnny Gill, my thing in the meeting was, I think it'll get numbers. Why not try it? Third guest. I'll try it. And what I loved that relates to that question is I was showing that there was a value that you all haven't looked at. You know, I know you think it won't get numbers, but that proved for Thick of the Night, in a syndicated situation, there are people checking for black people. And being from Cleveland, when I met Johnny and Gerald Lavert, then Gerald calls me at a certain point when the show is on the air, and he has this track, Casanova, he plays over the phone. Can't send it to me on the link, plays it on the phone. I'm like, that shit sound good even through the telephone, you know, and he flies out with his cousin and his brother, and Lavert does Casanova. And that was the Late show, you know, LL Cool Jeff.
- [36:19]
Charlamagne Tha God
That's.
- [36:20]
Arsenio Hall
That's another reason why I'm shocked that Fox didn't want to do a show, because it was apparent there that something was going on, that the viewing audience was fucking with us and. Cause there. There are a few. LL Cool J was the first rapper. LL Cool J and Houdini, first hip hop things I ever did. Way back on the Late show when I took over for Joan Rivers and LL got big numbers, you know, and he did I'm Bad. And Houdini did the freaks come out at night and they did numbers. But at that point, Paramount was sneaking around. Fox coming to my dressing room. You know, you would think it was fans, but it was guys that taken off their suits and put on T shirts and come over to say, do this at Paramount. If they don't get it. Do this at Paramount because they were seeing the numbers on a show where they had fired the host and now they're getting these numbers. You know, people watched me to see me talk to Mike Tyson.
- [37:14]
Charlamagne Tha God
That's right. Yeah, man. There was a debate on the Bag Fuel podcast, Salute to Bag Fuel. And they were saying, is Arsenio hall hip hop? And I'm like, not only was Arsenio hall hip hop, Arsenio was Black culture from 89 to 94. I don't even know if black culture, entertainment wise, and especially hip hop could grow as much as it did without the Arsenio hall show. Where else would we have seen it to that level?
- [37:38]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah, you know, we would have found a way. Just like now. The problem with a late night talk show is what you all are doing in a. For a cheaper budget. Podcast radio shows. It's like, you can't do those giant shows anymore with all that staff and a band and the lights. Now you put Theo Vaughn in front of a fake plant, you know, and. And it's really inexpensive to do. And so that's what's happened to late night. You know, it's. It's hard to do it the other way.
- [38:17]
Charlamagne Tha God
But I'm talking hip hop and black culture.
- [38:18]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah, yeah.
- [38:19]
Charlamagne Tha God
There was no platform for that.
- [38:21]
Arsenio Hall
Right.
- [38:21]
Charlamagne Tha God
From 89 to 94, we ran. It was Arsenio. Yo, MTV Raps.
- [38:27]
Arsenio Hall
And we all grew up waking up on Saturday to watch Soul Train. Soul Train.
- [38:31]
Charlamagne Tha God
That was soul train.
- [38:32]
DJ Envy
Ralph McDaniels had the thing locally.
- [38:34]
Charlamagne Tha God
That was New York. They had Ralph McDaniels all around the country.
- [38:37]
Arsenio Hall
Soul Train was what I. I had Soul Train. You know, even when I saw a white person, it was Soul Train. I remember seeing Elton John play a acrylic clear piano and do Benny and the jets for Don Cornelia.
- [38:49]
Charlamagne Tha God
Soul Train ain't had no rappers, though.
- [38:51]
Arsenio Hall
Don wasn't crazy about hip hop and neither was Oprah. And that's a good point. That also was part of the history of this. I saw a vacancy. I saw a void. And the best way to make money, whether you're creating a product or scope and show business, is to find the void and fit into it. You know what Lauren does, you know, she saw a void. You know, they need a competent black journalist to jump into this infotainment, Hollywood news. And she filled it, you know, with. With an accuracy and a hard work effort that she found herself a place. Yeah, hard work.
- [39:34]
Charlamagne Tha God
I agree with accuracy. And she got accuracy, too.
- [39:37]
DJ Envy
Who taught you the business Wait, who taught you? I was going to ask him who taught you the business? You just knew. So, like the syndication, like, that's nothing that you can read about.
- [39:45]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah.
- [39:45]
DJ Envy
So how did you learn and understand the business in depth?
- [39:50]
Arsenio Hall
Well, whether it's sitting like I would. If Don Cornelius. If Don Cornelius would go to lunch with me, I would take that lunch, you know, I'll buy. You know, he took me to lunch one day. I've sat with Quincy in front of a board and listened to all the off the wall stuff before anybody heard it. And he said, you're from Ohio, right? I'm like. He said, let me play this for you and put it up on big reels, you know? And he played a song called Just Once. He said, this kid is from Ohio, and it was James Ingram. I would sit and talk to legends and try to learn everything I could. And I would take jobs. We've all taken jobs just to get education. We go to college and we pay to go. So I would do things just to learn. Like the Thick of the Night job. It probably looked real corny, me sitting next to Alan Thicke and saying, we'll be right back. You know, I was that guy. But I was learning syndication in late night. And a couple of the people in that show, when it failed, I hired them, you know, and. But. But I. I did everything I could to learn any place I could go. Richard Pryor invited me to the set of JoJo Dancer once, and. And I wanted to be in the movie, but Richard said, just stand around and learn, because I'm going to direct and cool and go every way you can, do everything you can, because knowledge is king.
- [41:17]
Charlamagne Tha God
Clarence Avon as well.
- [41:18]
Arsenio Hall
Clarence Avon, but rest in peace. Well, yeah, yeah.
- [41:21]
Charlamagne Tha God
I mean, I could have said rest in peace a million times during this interview, but wow. Yeah. Yeah.
- [41:27]
Arsenio Hall
Other than Donnie Wahlberg, ain't nobody alive. Clarence, he was the man. He was special. And the thing about Clarence, there was a stealth element of his business that's right where I wouldn't even know how something happened. And later on they would say, well, Clarence got him to talk to him, and that's how it happened. I love the way he did business. He wasn't messy and he wasn't always there. But you knew it happened because of him. You know, good day, good times.
- [42:02]
Lauren LaRosa
I was gonna ask, did you ever feel alone in your fight? Like, I heard your story about NWA and trying to push for that. And I don't know. I guess with the Clarence Avat thing, though, you had the support. But it just feels like you were always, like, fighting, and I wondered if you ever felt, like, internally, more support. Externally, you had. It was divided. But internally, who was there? And did you feel lonely?
- [42:24]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah. And, you know, it was hard. Even the situation where the Queer Nation came after me, first of all, you fight hard when you know you right.
- [42:35]
Lauren LaRosa
Yeah.
- [42:36]
Arsenio Hall
And the bottom line is to say I don't. I'm homophobic and I don't put on enough gay guests. That's bullshit. And we're at a time when everybody ain't gonna tell you they're gay. Ellen would come on and do jokes, and Rosie would come on and do jokes, but they weren't gonna talk about their dates with women. They would probably make their dating bit about a man. Everybody on my staff was gay except me. That's an exaggeration.
- [43:02]
Charlamagne Tha God
But.
- [43:05]
Arsenio Hall
But the bottom line is it was a time when you just didn't know who was gay. And they were in a trap of, you know, there were people who were gay, and they knew if. If I say I'm gay and women know I'm not singing to them, it could ruin my career, you know, thank God times have changed and people can be themselves and still survive. But, yeah, there were some very lonely times. And when you. When you have this battle with the Queer Nation and no one defends you and say, oh, no, that's wrong about him, you know, you. You feel alone, or the NWA situation, I had to wait. And that's a. Patience was the lesson there. Because at first they fought me. You can't do nwa And I was mad because eventually the group broke up, and I had to do Dre and Ice Cube and Easy separately. And that's what God meant for it to be, I guess. But initially, I want to do NWA and Paramount. I wasn't big enough, successful enough yet to say I'm doing it, you know, and later I was. But what you have to go through is you're fighting for NWA and then you hear a track where Ice Cube is rhyming your name with the word bicentennial and dogging you, and you're like, fuck, does brother know I'm in here fighting for him? But sometimes.
- [44:32]
Charlamagne Tha God
Why are you so mad?
- [44:33]
Arsenio Hall
Because I couldn't get them on the show.
- [44:35]
Charlamagne Tha God
Then. Oh, yeah? Yeah.
- [44:36]
Arsenio Hall
Cause they. He wanted me to get them on to do Fuck the Police, and I wanted to get them on, but Paramount didn't. Wasn't ready yet, you know, and. And down the road, I got to call more shots. And in life, that's the way it is the more successful you get, then you get to take some chances and do what you want to do. But initially you got to do what Paramount says do. Caught between a rock and a hard place.
- [45:04]
DJ Envy
Often I was going to ask, what chance did you try that didn't work?
- [45:08]
Arsenio Hall
Chances I took that didn't work? Well, Paramount was right about what they were saying. If you want to maybe be in the position to be considered the king when Johnny leaves, do this show. So when Johnny leaves, people know, you know, the show I was doing, I could have been a lot more successful and made a lot more money if I was a little more commercial and if I listened a little more. But I was hard headed and I had a love for hip hop and black music. And my thing was, I've said this many times, I did the show I loved and I knew that I needed to do more Steven Eady, you know, But I wanted to get Q Tip sitting in with the posse. And the bottom line is I wouldn't change a thing. I loved being in that position and being that guy. And unfortunately they were right. If I wanted bigger numbers, you know, you can get a huge number if you do Cher, but I wanted Toni Braxton.
- [46:25]
Charlamagne Tha God
But the problem with that is there's no reward for that. Ain't no reward for being real. Right. Like, so you do all of that, but then when the Rent do.
- [46:32]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah.
- [46:34]
Charlamagne Tha God
With everybody that loves you, when they see you in the screen, say, boy, you'd be keeping it real. You kept it real, Arsenio.
- [46:38]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah. You just. That's why when you look in the mirror and you're happy and satisfied with who you are, that has to be your. That has to be your barometer of success, failure and happiness. I was loving what I was doing. Two Bobby Brown numbers that night made me happy.
- [47:00]
Charlamagne Tha God
That's a jewel though, man. And that's the thing, like, even with you and Eddie, right. I always felt like y' all never let fame confuse your sense of self
- [47:08]
Arsenio Hall
worth, you know what I mean?
- [47:11]
Charlamagne Tha God
Like, regardless of how famous y' all were, y' all didn't run to the cameras. You know, y' all come in and out the spotlight when y' all want to. And it feels like y' all know exactly who y' all are, regardless of if all of this goes away tomorrow.
- [47:25]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah. You know, I think sometimes if you have that, you have to thank God and thank your parents because that's usually based on your foundation and how you're raised, how you're taught. And maybe like I talked about seeing, seeing Certain heroes when you're young and how they carry themselves. You know, before we had the term cancel culture, we all remember Sammy Davis Jr. Hugging Richard Nixon.
- [47:55]
Charlamagne Tha God
That's right.
- [47:56]
Arsenio Hall
And you're like, oh, okay. So you, you learn about pr, marketing and positioning and things like that. I was a student of show business. You know, if you want to play basketball, you're watching somebody cross over in the science of putting your weight here and shifting it back this way. And, and you know, you, if you're Chris Mullen, you go to the ghetto and play basketball where the best are. All my life I've wanted this and I've watched the people who were successful at it and studied it so that one day I could apply all those things. I knew who I was. I, I would go see Al Green because my mother loved Al Green and I would take her. But I was there early when the house lights were still on and everybody was filing in and there was a stand up comic on the stage. I knew who I was. And I was a magician as a kid. So I had birds and doves. And when I go do a bar mitzvah or a birthday party to make money, I had all this shit. My mother would have to rent a station wagon to take me. I was a musician. I was a drummer. So I had Tom Toms and cymbals. That night I watched Al Green and the standup open for him. The dude just walked out with a juice little glass. He put it on the stool and everything was from the neck up. And I'm like, that's what I want to do. And be careful what you say in your life, what you manifest verbally, because my house burned down and I lost the boxes, the doves, the cymbals, the drums. And then it was like, I graduated. And I'm like, I'm gonna be a stand up because I have nothing else. And by the way, in my junior year, I'm playing ball every day after classes with Steve Harvey. So we're dreaming, we're talking about it. And then Steve left Kent in his junior year and we didn't have cell phones. So I'm like, if you don't get Steve Mama's number, where's Steve? You know, he didn't come back. But in our junior year, we did a lot of dreaming. We went to see Franklin Ajayi perform, we went to see Dick Gregory perform. And that's my biggest message dream. Because you can manifest a dream into reality. I know this. It's not a coincidence. It's not just me I was on the campus of Kent State with Steve Harvey. We were dreaming. And right now Steve is. Is fine on clown.
- [50:24]
Charlamagne Tha God
Oh, man. More than fine. Was there a moment where fame ever did confuse your sense of self worth? Like,
- [50:31]
Arsenio Hall
how do you mean that?
- [50:32]
Charlamagne Tha God
Like when you was at your, like the height of everything, you know, Senior hall, cultural everywhere.
- [50:38]
Arsenio Hall
Like in just the COVID of Time magazine.
- [50:40]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah. Was that. Did you walk in Paramount and say, I need $10 million a season? God damn it.
- [50:44]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah. The bottom line is envy. And I have to keep reprising his thought about that light. Dude, I was just always. Maybe I have low self esteem as a black man, but I was glad to be in the game. I was glad to have an opportunity. I felt blessed every day. I prayed before that screen flew every night because I thanked God every night before when that motherfucker was holding the Orsenio and you see the silhouette behind that screen, that screen flew right before you saw that silhouette light go on. I was praying and thanking God for all these moments, for these things. Because I'm a kid from Cleveland. The closest I got to fame was my uncle used to run numbers with Don King. That's the first time I saw Rolls Royce. Don King was in town with Ali. And, you know, I was a dreamer and now I was living my dream. So I was always grateful. And it sometimes can keep you from becoming arrogant.
- [51:47]
Charlamagne Tha God
You know, they say gratitude turns what we have into enough. So that's what you had. You had extreme gratitude. So what you had was enough. Yeah.
- [51:56]
Arsenio Hall
When I got to Hollywood, man, I used to. I used to go to the supermarket and there's days when I would walk around the supermarket and pretend to shop, putting stuff in my cart. But the stuff in the little baby part of the cart, the little baby seat, you know, I had stuff in there. That stuff was what I was eating, you know, So I was eating, eating in the supermarket and pushing it around. And when I got full, left the cart and run out the store or walk fast out the store, I would go there on the. I knew a day when the Jimmy Dean's lady would cook sausages in a little electric fryer and she put toothpicks in them on a plate. I would go in there and talk to her and eat 10 sausages and make her laugh and. And that was breakfast. Things took off for me. I was just grateful to. To have a meal.
- [52:47]
Jess Hilarious
Yeah. What about in your show and your show, right. Has there ever been anybody that would talk about you but then won't come on your show and you Let it happen.
- [53:02]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah, once.
- [53:03]
Jess Hilarious
Okay.
- [53:03]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah, one time. But. But for the most part, you know, what?
- [53:08]
Jess Hilarious
Who.
- [53:08]
Arsenio Hall
Oh, I forgot her name, but it was somebody who, you know, now that I think maybe there are jokes that were too much, you know, But I forgot. But she was a comic.
- [53:27]
Jess Hilarious
Okay. Oh, another comedian.
- [53:28]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah, it was a young comic. And I was like, no, not. No. Keep that same energy.
- [53:34]
Jess Hilarious
Yeah.
- [53:35]
Arsenio Hall
When you was calling me the F word on stage, you know, but the
- [53:39]
Charlamagne Tha God
gay slur from the 90s.
- [53:41]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah. Yes. Which is rough on a black man, because. Yeah, but, you know. You know, that whole history, I was one of those guys that would put the business before my personal feelings. I've had Spike Lee call me an Uncle Tom, but when it's time for Spike Lee to promote his shit, I'm like, dude, I'm here. Come on. You know, as a matter of fact, Spike was mad at me because I probably didn't give him the date. I think he wanted a certain date. And it sweeps and, oh, that date's taken that Friday night, and he got mad at me and, you know, call me and Uncle Tom, and it's like, you would think that we would never speak, but I walked up to him, and at a Laker game, a Laker Knicks game, grabbed him. Dude, come on through sometime your next project.
- [54:31]
Charlamagne Tha God
I never understood that, though. Like, how could Spike Lee call Arsenio hall an Uncle Tom? Like you was doing do the right thing every night the way you was fighting for black. Yeah, I know. Yeah.
- [54:41]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah. And, you know, he. Like I said, he. People, you make mistakes. You say stuff. A lot of times, we. By the fact that when I hugged him, we talked about. And it was over. You realize in the moment he said that because he didn't get the date he wanted to promote, you know, whatever.
- [55:00]
Charlamagne Tha God
The Uncle Tom is strong, especially when
- [55:03]
Lauren LaRosa
you already had people that were feeling like that about you. So for him to echo it, it made it, you know, bigger.
- [55:08]
Arsenio Hall
Yeah. And. And that's probably why he went for that Achilles heel or that spot, you know, But. But I think sometimes to hold a grudge, you have to keep that ugly thing with you. Sometimes it's easier for you to let it go.
- [55:26]
DJ Envy
She don't have to go.
- [55:26]
Charlamagne Tha God
Guys, too.
- [55:27]
Lauren LaRosa
Okay, wait. I've been trying to get this in. You got really personal just about your dating life as well, too. In this book, you talk about Pamela Anderson and Paula Abdul.
- [55:37]
Arsenio Hall
And by the way, one of the reasons I wanted to tell the Pamela Anderson story is because I don't know if it's changed, but the older comics. That was the kind of advice. It's like, yo, Johnny Witherspoon in this book, he stay away from white women. You know, and you're a young. You're like, okay. You know. Cause there were no white women in my neighborhood, and I didn't know why. And of course, the night I walked into the Comedy Store with Pamela Anderson, Johnny Witherspoon looked at me and did that tungular thing that you. What'd I tell you? You know, and. And just I wanted to take people through that growth process of. Of what the OGs told you, and
- [56:18]
Lauren LaRosa
you just had to dip in.
- [56:19]
Jess Hilarious
You talking about, like, Pamela, damn.
- [56:23]
Arsenio Hall
Me and Tupac had an argument because Tupac in an article said something about Quincy and Arsenio and some of these brothers and these white women you see with white. You know, it's like back then, that was a no, no to the older brothers who were talking to you.
- [56:39]
Charlamagne Tha God
And.
- [56:39]
Arsenio Hall
And they were trying to tell you that's a problem. You know, that. You know, and. And it was. Some people in your demo will not like you if they see you in Jet magazine with a Playmate.
- [56:52]
Jess Hilarious
Yeah.
- [56:52]
Arsenio Hall
You know, so he was trying to protect me.
- [56:56]
Lauren LaRosa
Was she the first white celebrity that you had dated or that. Just the one that we know about now
- [57:03]
Arsenio Hall
before her. I think I talk about this in the book. I was at an ABC function and met Emma Sams, who was about. They were about to replace Luke and Laura on the soap opera With Luke and Holly. And I met her the day she got the role. And we went out for a minute
- [57:20]
Lauren LaRosa
and was that why it ended? Because in the book. But also, just whenever you have mentioned it, you always make it like it just was like a quick thing. But what did it end? Because you were like, all right, I can't do this. Like, career wise. It's not going to.
- [57:30]
Arsenio Hall
Well, everything ended back then because I was young and I was busy. The woman in your life at that time in your career, I don't know if it's like this for everybody, but she's always going to be on the. Be the chick on the side. You know, show business has to be your woman, or you have to be a man who's probably not doing the right thing in your relationship because you. I was on the road. That's all that was important to me. So relationships weren't going to work. Thank God.
- [58:04]
DJ Envy
Actually.
- [58:05]
Arsenio Hall
Thank God my life worked out the way it did because my woman, who I've been with for 20 years, I can't imagine my life without Her. That's the only thing that's important to me. She's my best friend. The only reason I want to get on a plane and go home is because she's there.
- [58:27]
Jess Hilarious
Oh, wow.
- [58:28]
Arsenio Hall
You know, and to eventually become famous, get your paper, and find a successful relationship of that nature, you're like, God knew what he was doing. Because, you know, I could have had somebody pregnant or been married, you know, when I was a guest on Merv Griffin, you know, and that. And I never would have been in the situation I'm in now. And I have an incredible woman in my life.
- [58:56]
Charlamagne Tha God
Hold on.
- [58:57]
Lauren LaRosa
I was just gonna say, you've always protected that.
- [58:59]
Arsenio Hall
Oh, yeah.
- [59:00]
Charlamagne Tha God
So.
- [59:00]
Lauren LaRosa
But. And now you're talking more about it. Is it just because of the book, or are you at a place where you just want people to see that love that you have?
- [59:06]
Arsenio Hall
Well, when Charlamagne and I talked, I knew that was. That's why I wanted to think about it, you know, because I've always been a very private person. I'm a loner, and I'm very private because I know the more you give people, the more they have to hurt you with. So I'm very private about my life. And I knew this book would make me talk about. You know, I also protect the one I love. I don't. I don't put my woman out there. Because you put your woman out there. You put your child out there. I remember as far back as Kathie Lee Gifford, and she put Cody out there. And we do jokes about Cody. We talk about Cody. Everything that's ever gone on in my life, I've learned something from it. So I get to this point where I'm famous, and I'm like, I'm not gonna give them the stuff they can hurt me with. I'm gonna give them show business. That's all I'm giving them. Yeah, and if that. Because a lot of times there are people famous for their personal life. We know people. We don't. We don't know what their art is or we don't. We haven't seen. Heard a record, but we're talking about their girlfriend or their boyfriend. And I've always said, if show business ain't enough, if my performance ain't enough, y'.
- [60:20]
Charlamagne Tha God
All.
- [60:20]
Arsenio Hall
I'm not giving y' all the personal stuff.
- [60:22]
Charlamagne Tha God
Right. I got two quick questions before you go. Did writing this book force you to confront any lies you might have been telling yourself?
- [60:30]
Arsenio Hall
Any lies that I might have been telling myself?
- [60:35]
Charlamagne Tha God
No.
- [60:36]
Arsenio Hall
Because part of who I am is dealing with the fact, you know, my ass is big, my fingers are long, and I'm from Cleveland. You know, I've heard people call my hometown the Mistake on the Lake. Yeah. So the bottom line is I'm pretty real. It. I know it's. It's weird, but it can help you to look in the mirror and tell yourself the truth. First, the last one.
- [61:12]
Charlamagne Tha God
What do you want people to unlearn about you after reading this?
- [61:18]
Arsenio Hall
You know what? I'm not trying to educate or teach people anything. I see the book as another form of entertainment. It's a story that can motivate you. It's about a kid who dreamed you can manifest success. I think. And like I told you about Robin Thicke, I think we know inside if we look at our kids and we listen to them, there's a dream in there, and we can help them make that dream come true. You know, I remember one of my last images of Kobe Bryant was him taking Gigi to a Connecticut game or something. I watched him seeing what she loved, seeing what she did, and trying to nurture that and help with that. And that's what we always want to do with our kids. And so I. I don't know. This book is just another project for me, and. And it's entertainment, you know, in a sense, and sharing my story. And hopefully somebody will say, I'm not going to give up. Because the day you give up your blessing might be tomorrow.
- [62:28]
Charlamagne Tha God
It's definitely the real story of Arsenio Hall. It's not just about a guy with a late night show, man. Go get Arsenio a memoir. Available everywhere. You buy books now. And just salute to you, my brother, being the cultural icon that you.
- [62:40]
Arsenio Hall
Thank you. I don't even know how you got my number. We had just come out of the pandemic and I didn't know what. You stand up, you go to clubs and people were wearing masks, and we were in the parking lot of the venues performing, and it was a depressing time. And I think you and I have the same lawyer. Maybe.
- [63:00]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [63:01]
Arsenio Hall
Okay.
- [63:02]
Charlamagne Tha God
I think so. I don't remember. I don't remember. I remember I was trying to get you to do the podcast.
- [63:06]
Arsenio Hall
You know, Nina Shaw. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So. So I. I was thinking that's how you got my number, but probably.
- [63:12]
Charlamagne Tha God
I don't remember.
- [63:12]
Arsenio Hall
Maybe on a bathroom wall somewhere here,
- [63:16]
Charlamagne Tha God
but I think we exchanged numbers when I did your show. When you. When you bought the show back.
- [63:19]
Arsenio Hall
Oh, yes.
- [63:20]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yep.
- [63:20]
Arsenio Hall
Oh, yeah, Yeah. I forgot about the reboot. Yes. But. But thank you for the call because you gave me something to do for a couple years, man, and it was a lot of fun, and I think I did it well.
- [63:34]
Charlamagne Tha God
I'm glad you did. No, this is one of the best entertainment memoirs I've ever read in my life. That is said with no bias. Not just bias for publishing. It not biased because I look at you as an inspiration. But this is actually one of the best entertainment memoirs I ever read in my life.
- [63:47]
Arsenio Hall
Could I just add one more thing? When you talk about dreaming and teaching and what the book does and all that kind of stuff, what you just said is important. A black man saying to me on the phone, I want to do this because I want more black authors. I want more books in the hands of Nubian people. What you did, calling me was so important and to do it with you, because that's what I told Nina and that's what I told my publicist. I gotta do it because he's trying to do something, and I believe in what he's trying to do. And I knew your history and your parents being educators. And it's so important for us. Sometimes we don't work together. We will work with anybody but our own. I don't know why. And you know, I ain't fucking with them niggas. And there's a lot of that in us even when we don't say it. But I fucks with this nigga and we got a good book out of it.
- [64:51]
Charlamagne Tha God
Arsenio freed me a long time ago because I, you know, I used to want to do late night television because Arsenio Hall. So, you know, you do radio, then you get a talk show and you think, like, I gotta make it as a late night host. Gotta make it as a late night host. And when you was on press for coming to America, too, somebody asked you, they said, you know, who do you think is like the closest to you in this generation? And you said, I would say somebody like Charlamagne, but he does radio and you watch it on YouTube and, you know, that's like where people go to get. I guess that's that so called late night fix. I remember you said that.
- [65:17]
Arsenio Hall
I was like, yo, hey, that song, everything must change. Yeah, the business is that way too. That late night format that Johnny created, he was the king. But for budget reasons and for the advancement of technology, this shit has to change. And what you're doing now, when Tupac would call me on the landline and say, I need to come on the show, man, because they Trying to make me take an AIDS test before I do poetic justice. And I ain't gonna really fuck Janet. Right? Okay? So why should I have to take an AIDS test? And back then, we didn't have the word Twitter. We didn't have that. It wasn't a bluebird. It was a blackbird. I was the guy you called and came and talked about your problems or the business or what you were going through. Ice T coming on and explaining. Cop killer, explaining, you know, I'm not really killing cops. Arnold Schwarzenegger ain't really the Terminator. This is a piece of art, trying to give a message. And so what I was doing, when I watch you, when I listen to you, I'm like, he's doing it. And the medium has come to a different place. You know, there's no curtain, there's no Ed McMahon. There's no Doc Severinson. But what Charlamagne is doing is what I did for this time, for this culture, and. And look how it's evolved.
- [66:40]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah.
- [66:40]
Arsenio Hall
You know, I mean, we got the two ladies now. And of course, envy.
- [66:43]
Charlamagne Tha God
It was a freeing for me because it just teaches you you don't always have to be chasing something. And it goes back to gratitude. Gratitude turns what we have into enough.
- [66:52]
Arsenio Hall
Hello. There you have it.
- [66:54]
DJ Envy
Arsenio hall, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much for joining us. The memoir is out right now. Make sure you pick it up. And we appreciate you og so much.
- [67:01]
Jess Hilarious
Thank you.
- [67:02]
Arsenio Hall
Thank you, man. I appreciate y'. All.
- [67:04]
Jess Hilarious
Yeah.
- [67:04]
Arsenio Hall
And I'm glad to finally meet the other three of the foursome in person.
- [67:09]
Jess Hilarious
Yeah. Thank you.
- [67:10]
Arsenio Hall
And the Puerto Rican dude with the Boston.
- [67:13]
DJ Envy
I'm glad to meet you, bro.
- [67:14]
Arsenio Hall
It's the Breakfast Club is. Arsenio hall, ladies and gentlemen.
- [67:18]
Charlamagne Tha God
Hold up. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club.
- [67:25]
Lauren LaRosa
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.