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The Breakfast Club
INTERVIEW: Ben Crump Talks 'Worse Than A Lie,' Black Community Missions, ICE Incidents, Boosie Badazz, Trump Administration, Jessie Jackson
00:44:35
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Podcast Host / Tara Davis Woodhull
This is an iHeart podcast.
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Podcast Host / Tara Davis Woodhull
Hey, this is US Olympic Gold medalist Tara Davis Woodhull and I'm US Paralympic
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
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Podcast Host / Tara Davis Woodhull
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
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DJ Envy
Every day I wake up.
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
Wake your ass up.
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DJ Envy
The Breakfast Club. Y' all finish or y' all done?
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlamagne, the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building.
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DJ Envy
Yes, indeed, Attorney Benjamin Crump.
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
Welcome, brother. How you feeling? Good morning. Happy birthday, King Queen.
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DJ Envy
How are you, King?
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
How you feeling? Hey, man, happy to catch you out doing Black History Month.
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DJ Envy
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I feel like you've been keeping more of a low profile lately, Brother Crump.
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
You know, I've worked on this novel, and I was really trying to inspire the next generation of civil rights lawyers, social justice warriors, because it has to always be building for the future. We gonna pass this torch, and we got to make sure the next generation go even further than us. And so. But, man, I've been working my butt off. I just ain't been in the public so much.
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DJ Envy
Is there a reason for that?
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
No, it's just that we got the Emmy for how to sue the Klan. That was in the media. We've been fighting on these environmental racism cases I'm battling in Altadena, the wildfires, while everybody moved on. Those black people are still displaced, still homeless, and we still fighting to hold the company accountable and the county, because they gave the evacuation notices to the people on the east side, the more affluent white people. And then the black people got their evacuation notices late, and 19 black people died. And nobody's talking about it. And if we're not careful, Charlemagne man. Altadena, which was the predominantly black historic section of Los Angeles, will become California's Katrina. And that's what we cannot afford, for black people to lose their land, their generational wealth. And we sometimes with this administration, we forget the trouble. I mean, just the craziness they're doing. They didn't even allow FEMA to come in and build the infrastructure because this president was opposed to California and its Democratic leadership. So he said, we're not going to help them. So now we're having to hold the state and the county and the city of Los Angeles accountable to do infrastructure. So the black people, if it would have took a year, year and a half to get back in your home that's going to take two years. Two years and a half. Can you imagine?
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DJ Envy
Wow.
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
You know, can you imagine Charlamagne? Yeah. Just one day, you minding your business, and then a fire comes from the transformer and just in a matter of minutes, burn everything. Everything you had is gone. God forbid. Please. Your children are not being able to go to school, your cars were burnt so you can't go to work. And then the fema, the emergency management system that was built for this exact moment, then says for political reasons, we're not gonna do anything.
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DJ Envy
Please. I'm glad to know that you on that case, man. Mimi Brown, who does our front page news, she did a whole special on Altadena. Call from Altadena with love. And. And she. And she talks about that a lot. And the people she talked to talk about that a lot. And people call up here all the time just looking for help and assistance and feel like they can't get it. And people aren't remembering what happened there.
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
What about the insurance? We're suing the hell out of them, Charlemagne. So they'll know that we. If they ain't got nobody at least advocating, call us, and we'll keep fighting. The insurance companies, you know, Governor Newsom, the Attorney General and them, they did a mortgage moratorium for a year, and then we got to extend it another year because think about it. Envy and Jess. Yeah. You're paying a mortgage on a house that you can't even live in. I mean, and a lot of people just ain't doing it. And so you got the. What is it? The disaster capitalists, the opportunist. Because, you know, the Olympics coming to la, they got World cup coming, man. They've been trying to buy up these black people land forever anyway. And now with this tragedy, they're taking the opportunity to throw pennies on the dollar and steal our land. Still, our generational wealth. And so the insurance companies, you know, have been doing what they do. I believe all of them, State Farm, all State, everybody, they try to get your premiums. No matter how many times you pay, the first time you make a claim, they come up with every single reason to say, well, we're not going to deny that. We're going to deny this claim or. We don't think this land is that valuable, Lauren and Charlemagne, because it's in a black neighborhood.
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DJ Envy
Yeah, but once they get all the black people out, then bring the white people in. Now, the land increased triple.
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
Yeah. 10 times with the Olympics, man. They gonna be building condos, high rises and this is prime land. Los Angeles already is what they said, five times more than any other property in America, price wise. And so this is going to go up even more. It's so many things that don't make the media charlemagne that we work on and fight on, you know, banking while black. And right now, all the black women who have been fired and terminated by because this attack on DEI and diversity equity inclusion, we're suing all these corporations for these black people who are losing their jobs with no rhyme or reason. Just that this administration gave us an excuse now that we don't have to tolerate you all. I mean, and it's funny. It's funny as Tess figure. And I always laugh when we were representing lower people at the corporation and they bought discrimination claims, you would have these black people sitting at the table helping to defend the corporation's actions, justifications to fire them. But now you got a lot of those people calling me and I'm like, wow, ain't this interesting? The tables have turned. Now it's you on this side while you are helping protect them. So it just says to us, especially during Black History Month, the future of black people won't be determined by how white people treat us. The future of black people won't be determined how white people support us. The future of black people won't be determined how white people invest in us. But the future of black people will be determined how we treat each other. The future of black people will be how we support each other. The future of black people. Charlamagne, will be how we invest in each other. And that's the God's honest truth. When you really think about it, man, we need to be supporting black businesses. Black lawyers, black doctors, black restaurants, black dry cleaners, black mechanics, black insurance agents. I mean, we got to every week have dinner, or at least every month have dinner, lunch with our colleagues and so forth. And we gotta hold each other accountable. Be like, Jessica, you know, the 50% of your money, at least 40% go to black businesses. Okay, well, who. Let's talk about it. And be. I try to be honest with myself. God blessed me immensely. And I'm like, I don't want to be a hypocrite. I want to be true. And I got to look in the mirror first and foremost and hold myself accountable. And so I say to myself, when I really think about it, our Asian sisters and brothers. Brothers, their dollar in their community stays in their community 21 days before it leaves. Our Jewish sisters and brothers, their dollar stays in their community 17 days before it leaves their community. Black Americans, our dollars stay in our community 17 minutes before it leaves our community. And it's sad Charlamagne because I love how Levy Armstrong out of Minneapolis and Jamal Bryant when we boycotted Target and those things because it's such a philosophical decision. It's a mindset to say, I'm gonna be intentional about supporting black businesses. And you gotta be intentional. And with the Internet, we can find black businesses. They say, no, no, I'm gonna find a black dentist. I'm gonna find a black, you know, insurance agent. And it's intentional because now we're building a strong black economic base. And we can then tell this administration that, hey, like New Jack City Cash Money brothers are self contained unit. We will be okay with or without you. We don't need you to save us.
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DJ Envy
It's crazy, though. Cause these conversations have been going on since the beginning of time. Like you not saying nothing that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad didn't say that Martin Garvey didn't say that Martin Luther King Jr. Didn't say. Like, it's just like, at what point are people going to realize unity and group operation is the way, you know, Charlemagne.
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
We have to keep saying it, though. You know, as my grandmother and them you say, I know we're singing to the choir, but the choir got to sing louder. And it just got to be something that we remind each other. Like you, Lauren, Jess, Envy, y' all every month, say, hey, how many black businesses do y' all support? Because it's easy to just spend money. I know my family, they spend it quick. But when you stop and take account and you really try to be honest with yourself and you start writing down, well, did I at least give 25% of my money? I know I paid all these white people. I bought this stuff. I went to corporate America, I'm married to a Mexican. And with this book, we've done so much to try to push people to. To independent black bookstores. Even though I know Amazon, you know, it's so easy, so convenient and so forth. But I was so proud of Charlamagne when they wrote that article saying that Ben Crump's Worst in a Lie drove a surge in book sales at black bookstores. I mean, that's what it's about. If we're being honest with ourselves. It's one thing for you to come up, but how do you help bring everybody else up with you? That's what I love about you, man. With the black effect.
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DJ Envy
Thank you, brother.
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
You're bringing a lot of people up.
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DJ Envy
I appreciate you. Why did you choose fiction as the vehicle for the story instead of like non fiction?
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because my personal hero, Thurgood Marshall, he once said that most people will never know what really happens in a courtroom when you're fighting for liberty and justice for marginalized people. And he said that's why Charlemagne, he would write his legal memorandums and his pleadings and his briefs to be very engaging because he wanted to entice people to read those pleadings so they could be educated on what really happens during due process and court proceedings and so forth. And so I said to myself, well, what could be more engaging than a legal thriller? I mean, John Grisham with the Rainmaker, Michael Connelly with the Lincoln Lawyer. They sell millions of books every year because legal thrillers are intriguing. You know, you excited trying to figure em out, page turners and so forth. And I said, you know, man, I grew up with my grandmother watching Perry Mason, you know, those TV shows, you know, he figured it out, his brilliance, his resources. And then when college, you know, you got the Grisham and them. But I kept saying, man, when are they going to make a superhero black trial lawyer and everything? And I kept trying to figure out if they ever going to do it. And so what I said, Lord God said, negro, that ain't they Lane. You know, what they know about being a black lawyer, understanding the culture and fighting the civil rights struggle, said, that's your Lane. And so that's what inspired me to. To write Worse Than a Lie and create this superhero trial lawyer named Bolie Cooper. This person with his team of social justice warriors, they go in and they exalt the brilliance of our community. We have returning citizens, we have a Puerto Rican sister who's a lawyer, all working on the team saying that we are just as brilliant as anything they can create. And I want the next generation of people who look like us to have heroes that they can count on and say, no, no, you get your Lincoln Lawyer. We'll take Bolie Cooper. So in Bully's Journey through the Book, right, there's a lot of messaging that people will pick up on as they follow the story. How did you choose which messages you wanted people to pick up on? Because I'm sure you experienced so much stuff that we need to know and that we should be learning, you know? Absolutely, Lauren. And what you do as a writer, especially a fiction writer, you're intentional with what you're trying to convey, but you don't want to Come across too preachy and so forth. And so even, you know, I've been getting very good reviews, and I'm. I'm thankful for it. But it doesn't matter, because I knew the audience I was writing for. I was trying to do this Generations to Kill a Mockingbird that inspires so many young people to say, I want to go be a lawyer and try to make the law be an instrument for good. And so I was intentional. Lauren Even from the beginning of the book, people keep saying it's a civil rights legal thriller and it's wrapped in black culture. But it's also a historical reference point, because what I did are Hollis Montrose, this black police officer, who shot by four white police officers on the night of 2008, the historic election of President Barack Obama, becoming the first black president. Because I was trying to create an allegory where we took symbolic characters and events and settings to try to create abstract ideas. Like the idea, if you have the election of the first black president, as many people believe, Charlamagne In 2008, we were not going to have a post racial America. And even in the book, the chapter before Hollis is shot 10 times on that night, Boli Cooper is talking to his wife. He was on an airplane when the election results came. And he told his wife, when he landed, he said there was a white gentleman on the plane who said to me, well, buddy, look like you're gonna have to find a new career now that we've elected a black president, There won't be a need for civil rights anymore. And I was intentional about those things because really, it was foreshadowing, because in fiction, you can do that. Because envy the way we were all proud and happy and had this feeling of hope and optimism when Barack Obama was elected first black president.
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DJ Envy
I felt that way. Yeah, I felt like it was a post race to our society. I did.
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
And then. But what we did not fathom was that there was a whole lot of people who had a different reaction to us. And they were also going to be able to express their ways and their actions. And even when they shoot. Two things that's been pointed out by a lot of the literary people. Read the book. When Hollis Montrose, this black police officer, you can't find nobody better. Because we wanted to intentionally do that. Because when they killed George Floyd, when they killed Mike Brown, when they kill Stephon Clark, all these brothers, if they're not an angel, if they've ever been arrested, if they've ever been a convicted felon, if they are undocumented they come up and they say, oh, well, you know, they really were criminals. They not worthy of your consideration. I want to say, no, no, we. We got a person who was a model citizen, and it didn't matter, Charlamagne, because when those police officers saw Hollis Montrose, they didn't see him. They saw what they projected on him. And so when they are down there, Hollis is saying, I'm an officer. I got my idea and everything, they tell him, shut up. Just comply. We don't care if that boy is in the White House. We're still in control. Because I am trying to create this setting for the book. And the second thing that they point out, when they shot him 10 times and that hot metal was going into his body, I wrote, he cried, an ancestral cry out to God. And I tried to paint that picture for all the black people who had been brutalized and killed unjustly by police. The cries that they must have had, thinking that this was it for them. And I wrote this during the pandemic with Breonna George, Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Andre Hill. And I was very emotional at that time because this was therapeutic in many ways. But I thought about looking at Breonna's picture with eight bullet holes in her body, in her nightgown, lying in the hallway of her apartment when I was writing about Hollis. And so it is hopefully one of those things that is enticing and engaging, entertaining. But I'm really trying to teach people about how hard it is to fight for civil rights in America.
- [21:05]
DJ Envy
When you talk about that title, Worse Than a Lie, right, what, in your view, is actually worse than lying? And do you think America understands how often that shows up in the. In the courtroom?
- [21:16]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
I certainly think they don't. My grandmother who helped raise me, my mom worked two jobs to raise me and my two little brothers. So oftentimes we stay with my grandmother. And, you know, black grandmothers are brilliant. My grandmother, I think, was the wisest person I ever met in the world. And I remember her saying charlamagne on occasion. What's worse than a lie to tell the truth and have nobody believe you?
- [21:42]
DJ Envy
Lord have mercy.
- [21:43]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
I mean, and then in this book, it really goes so much deeper when you are seeing where Hollis, who's been shot 10 times, survived, and now he's charged with four counts of attempted murder. It's really life imitating art when you think about what's going on in Minneapolis with ice and stuff. But to answer your question directly, Charlemagne, man, I don't think many people understand how many sisters and brothers have to go in courtrooms all across America every day and lie on themselves and accept trumped up felony convictions and trumped up felony plea agreements because they understand that the alternative of going to trial with a jury of peers that have nothing in common with them, the likelihood that they would be convicted and sentenced for decades and have to be wrongfully convicted for a crime they didn't even commit, that's worse than a lie. And it happens every day, man, every day. How do you deal with stepping aside from the book for a second? But how do you deal with that?
- [23:06]
Podcast Host / Tara Davis Woodhull
Right?
- [23:06]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
Because I feel like even on social media now, people are lying more and more and more. But the problem with the lying is I feel like journalists, newscasters, papers, they're taking what these people are saying and making it factual. You know what I mean? So now when people hear it, they think they're hearing it from Channel 4, but it's really a lie that they heard online. How do you deal with that when you go into those courtrooms? Oh, it's getting so much worse already. You have two battles when you're representing people of color, especially in America, because there's a credibility factor. Every time we're fighting the police, or if we're fighting these large banks over banking while black discrimination cases, or we're fighting these corporations like Elon Musk and them about poisoning our community with these data centers, there's this credibility gap where they want to believe what white people say over black people. And the worst part about it, envy, is our people want to believe it too. Our people are so quick to attack one another. I mean, every day I pray to God, say, God help me, love our people more than they hate themselves. You know, I really believe, because when you've been blessed, you got to try to do better to help other people. And you got to even make allowances for their criticisms too, because slavery, I mean, it has such a psychological effect on our people. And we got so many haters out there on us when we got so much we fighting against white people. I don't care what black people do, try to get them some grace, you know. And so the line is so real now with social media. I mean, it's. It's been proliferated a hundred times than what we were used to before social media. But that's why in the novel early on, Boli Cooper realizes while he's fighting the Chicago machine and stuff, to beat a broken system, he's going to need more than just the truth. What we going to need is our whole community being galvanized with our resources, with our brilliance, with our connections that come together just to get justice. And and it's never about one person. That's the other thing I try to emphasize in the book. It's always a team effort. The fact that I was intentional about having returning citizens, brothers who were convicted of drug dealing and, you know, being streetwives and so forth. It was like Malcolm X said, some of our most brilliant Tired of spills
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Podcast Host / Tara Davis Woodhull
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- [27:23]
DJ Envy
toast to our good friend Dave. You inspired this epic guy's weekend. I'm sorry you're missing it. Everyone knows that when you fly you need to bring a real ID or a passport. Everyone but Dave. So here's to finally figuring out how to get on an airplane. Dave, we'll see you tomorrow. And I'm glad you could rebook your flight.
- [27:43]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
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- [28:51]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
Brilliant minds in America are locked up in 5 by 7 cells, never given the opportunity to expose their intelligence and so forth. So in this new series, I want to give those brothers opportunity to say what would it be like if they got to expose themselves using their street smarts and their intellect and brilliance to help solve cases. And so that's how you try to overcome the truth. But it's hard man. They what was the old saying? A lie goes around the world.
- [29:25]
DJ Envy
All the way around the world while the truth is still putting on the shoes.
- [29:27]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
Exactly. I saw the press conference you did about with YouTube and the targeting of like people like falsely on YouTube and the celebrities you're buying people Lauren, who's doing it? I mean you got these foreign actors in country like India and Korea and so forth coming up with accounts and that's why we're looking at Google and YouTube and them saying well you all apparel them even though it's been shown to be false. With Judge Faith and Judge Mathis. I mean all these lies. Margie Harvey out Stevie, wonderful. I mean just putting out lies and our people believe it so quickly. Jaz, I don't know why it is we are so prone to be leave negative versus positive shots.
- [30:12]
DJ Envy
We want to. You want to think the worst of people. I feel like Mr. Crump. That's why I think you got a low profile. I think you got overwhelmed by all the negativity because you are one of the people that's really out here on the front lines helping our people. But for whatever reason, people wanted to villainize you, especially a lot of our own.
- [30:30]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
Yeah. And, you know, it's so interesting, Charlamagne, because, man, the more good you try to do, God just keep blessing you. So I don't even think about any negativity or criticism. T.S. lawrence, the British soldier known as Lawrence of Arabia, he said something so profound. He said, the most dangerous person in the world is the person who dreams with their eyes open. They're so focused on their objective that they have very little time to focus on any other distractions. That's how I run my Life. We're not 21 cities, you know, we have 60 over 60 member staff, 200 lawyers working with us. And I'm just focused on my mission in life that God put on my calling. I can't worry about what you saying, man. We too busy trying to help liberate black people. I'm too busy now trying to do stuff globally with Africa and so forth, because we. If we learned anything from this administration, it's not enough to think nationally. We really got to think globally in the African Diaspora. Like Marcus Garvey said, that's what's going to save our people.
- [31:39]
DJ Envy
Is there a constitutional crisis when a president repeatedly attacks judges and prosecutors and juries? Or is that, I guess, protected under some type of First Amendment?
- [31:52]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
You know, again, Charlemagne. That's why I wrote this legal thriller, because I want so many people to go out, hopefully independent bookstores or Amazon, Barnes and wherever you can, and start reading this book, learning. Because we talk a lot about civil procedure and criminal procedure. It's funny because my cousin Vinnie, you remember that movie, it was fun and entertaining, but you watch it, you learn a lot. And so, like A Few Good Men and Lincoln Lawyer, Rainmaker, when they read this book about black superhero lawyers, I want people to be learning a lot because they need to understand about the Constitution I was talking about. This is art imitating life, and life imitating art Charlemagne. When I wrote this book, it was in 2020, 2021. Hollis Montrose gets shot 10 times by four white officers. Uh, and there's a sister who records it on video from her apartment window. But none of that is enough when the system starts to conspire to oppress the truth. And then we think about what happened two months ago with Alex Peretti. Four or five officers around him, he gets shot 10 times. Like Hollis, he was licensed to carry a gun, had it on him. Hollis, licensed carry a gun, had it on him. Both arguments said that even though there's video, we felt the fear of our life, and that's why we killed them. And then you saw the powers that be calm and start saying it was justified. I mean, even with video is no guarantee that you're going to get the truth and justice out. And so when we think about the Constitution crisis, I immediately think about the actions of ICE and what's going on, how it is a complete assault on the Constitution of the United States. I mean, it's an assault on the First Amendment right to free speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of press. When they arrested Georgia for. And Don Lemon, the Second Amendment right. I mean, the attack on it. When you think about Alex Peretti, they said that he wasn't can bring his firearm to this protest, even with the young boy, Kyle Rittenhouse. Thank you, Lord. They let him march right up there, made him a hero for having the gun at the rally for Jacob Blake. But then the third. The Fourth Amendment assault against the prohibition of unlawful searches and seizures. My God. I mean, they're kicking in people front doors with warrants based on racial profiling, nothing else. I mean, busting people car windows when they're driving in the street. I mean, no warrant, no probable cause. Just that now, you look Spanish or you look Somalian or you look Haitian, so black people don't take it lightly that they ain't coming for you next because they're going to say, oh, you look like our Haitian cousins. You look like our Somalian cousins. The Fifth Amendment right to due process of the law, how they just turned that on its head. Charlamagne. The fact that it was one of the most cherished principles in America to say that you're innocent until proven guilty. Well, not with ice. No, no, you are guilty. And you got to prove you're innocent. You got to prove that you're an American citizen, that you got your papers and so forth. It reminds you of South Africa doing apartheid. And then you think about the Sixth Amendment right to counsel. The fact that you got people in ICE detention centers and their lawyers are trying to go meet with them and have consultations with them, and they're being denied access. And then worst of all, y'. All. Worst of all is the attack on the Eighth Amendment rights against cruel and unusual punishment. Charlemagne. The fact that, man, you got people in these detention facilities who are American citizens. Too. And they need their insulin, they need their heart medicine, and they're not being given that reasonable medical attention that is clear from medical records and everything. And people are dying, and nobody's saying anything about it. And you got these private corporations with these contracts to keep building these detention facilities, keep building these prisons. Y', all, we need to stop attacking each other because they're attacking us. And they mean for our people, your children, your cousins, your spouses to end up in those prisons. Trump certainly don't mean for his kind to end up in those prisons.
- [36:29]
DJ Envy
Does it ever get overwhelming for you, being that you are the go to, you know, civil rights attorney? Like, when people think, and especially this generation, like somebody called Ben Crump, does it ever get overwhelming for you?
- [36:38]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
You know, I try to always thank God and be humble, never get the big head. You know, black America's Attorney General, I say, well, I'm proud that people would think that of me. But what I also know, Charlamagne, it can never be about one person. We can't have one leader because they'll take them out and then where will we be? So I'm all about community and building the bench we gotta keep. I'm so happy that Tez is in law school. I'm so happy that other people are going to law school, because we need, like Thurgood Marshall said, we need an army of civil rights lawyers to be able to deal with all the injustices we have. And so I try never, ever to say, oh, woe is me. Because, you know, Charlamagne, if I did not choose to go take on these big fights, then I wouldn't have to worry about people calling me. But I choose because I said, God bless me and shame on me if I don't use the influence that God gave me to go try to help others. And that's what it was. Jamie Foxx and I and Harry Belafonte. Harry Belafonte said, what good is having influence if you don't use it when it matters most? And I worry so much about other sisters and brothers who got the influence, who just stay silent, man. I'm like, you got all this money, all this power. You see what's happening to our people, and you ain't going to say nothing. I mean, it's. And again, I. I shot you out the breath of Charlemagne. I. I love how you use your platform to speak truth to power.
- [38:24]
DJ Envy
Thank you, brother.
- [38:25]
Commercial Announcer / Danielle Robay
And.
- [38:25]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
And we all got to do it, y', all, because God is watching. And at one day he gonna say, but what did you do with the blessings I bestowed upon you. What did you do with the influence? Did you just use it for yourself, or did you try to help others? Did Booy reach out to you? Booy said he was gonna reach out to you. He did. He did. Well, what happened with Booy Case? I know that Booy said Louisiana is kicking his butt. Well, you know, I do think there are times when people try to use their authority to come after people who. In our community who have high profiles, and they do it intentionally. And so I know they did it with NBA YoungBoy. We were able to get him a bail, and that was Louisiana. I think they're doing it. I think they do it to a lot of us. Envy. So in short order, we've broke down Boots Case. We think he's gonna be fine. I work with great lawyers in Louisiana, like attorney James Williams. Tez and Sue Ann Robinson helped me on that case. And it was really one of those things just doing the legal research and so forth, saying, this is where I believe their bark is worse than their bite. And so I said, if they come for you, we'll have the community ready. And that's why it's good to work with for the lawyers around the country. So it ain't just Ben Crump, but when you call Ben Crump, he's calling his network of attorneys saying, hey, how do we help, Bootsy? How do we help? You know, I'm gonna look at Todd Dollar sign brother. He believes in a lot believe we are wrongfully convicted in California. So we're gonna look at those cases because that's what we have to do. Envy. We have to be there to answer the bail for our people. And I smile when you say booster, because just call the office when you put it on social media. I got 100 calls. Boots are trying to get you Crump. You need to reach out to Boosa.
- [40:25]
DJ Envy
Has the Trump administration targeted you in any way?
- [40:28]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
I'm sure I'm on some enemy list, but I try not to think about it because, you know, I have the honor of representing the family of Malcolm X. And this was 61 years ago. They were targeting our people. And I don't think nothing has changed with the CIA or the FBI. Charlamagne. I think you and me both on this enemy's list, brother. So come what may, we know who we are and whose we are. And I refuse to be afraid. I tell my security and everybody, y', all. I refuse to let them make us live in fear. Standing up, fighting for our children's Future. And, you know, God has ordered our steps. And whatever happens, I want my daughter. I want our children to know we believed in them so much, we were willing to fight for them, sacrifice for them, and if need be, die for our children. Man, our children really got to see that black people believe in black liberation. And just like. And I mean this from the heart, just like they are unapologetic in their white supremacist beliefs. We have to be unapologetic defenders of black life, black liberty and black culture. I mean, now more than ever, y', all, they. They saying it with they chest. How they think we're inferior, we gotta say it with our chest. No, we think black is the greatest thing and we don't care. And we gotta say it a hundred times over. Like Jesse Jackson said, you know, we gotta talk about I am somebody. Because everybody in society tried to tell little black boys and girls, you ain't nobody. Now, what did Jesse. You mentioned Jesse Jackson. Rest in peace, Jesse Jackson. What did Jesse Jackson mean to you? Man, you know, for the greater part of my life, I'm in the 50s, you know, Jesse was the standard bearer for civil rights that we know. And the thing I remember, envy, to be specific. I remember you fighting the campaigns. You get people who show up for the cameras. And then when the cameras go, you see people showing up on a consistent basis. Jesse, even the old age was still trying to show up. And I have to salute that. I'll never forget. We were, and I won't call it a corporation, but we were representing agents of a certain insurance company where they were redlining the black agents, where they could never make as much as the young white boys and girls who was 20 years their junior. And we were in federal court in Chicago. And, you know, I believe, like Thurgood, we got to fight in the court of public opinion, in the court of law. And one of the state, one of the agents, was Jesse Jackson's insurance agent, who was one of the class action representatives. So I asked Reverend Jackson to come to court. And we were in court envy. And we were there for about four or five hours at this federal hearing. And the judge was really giving it to me, man, and my team. I mean, he was coming at us left and right, and, you know, you like, man, this ain't gonna go well for us and so forth. And, you know, you had a defeatist mentality starting to set in a little bit. And we went on break, man. Reverend Jackson got me in a corner. He said. He said, attorney Crump, man. You Gotta remember, you don't drown because the water is deep. He said, you drown because you stopped kicking. He said, crump, our people can never see our leaders, people who they believe in, stop kicking. He said, you just always gotta keep kicking, man. He said, you keep kicking, you'll make it to the shore. You keep kicking, you'll overcome, but you just gotta keep kicking. I don't care what the odds are, I don't care how the cards are stacked against you, you just keep kicking. And I was like, wow, you know, all right, Jesse, let's go. And as fate would have it, man, we went back in court for another hour or so. And the judge, even though he berated us and talked down to us like Thurgood Marshy got talked down to. And that's part of it, you know, you gotta understand that the system really doesn't think black people supposed to get equal justice. Every bit of justice we get, every ounce we get, we gotta fight for it. We went back in that courtroom and the judge denied their motion to dismiss. And I said, man, what a legacy to Jesse. We just right now, more than ever in this era, black people, we just gotta keep kicking.
- [45:05]
DJ Envy
Rest in peace to the legend.
- [45:06]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
Yeah. Rest in peace. Jesse Jackson. This is a very important piece of literature, especially for the youth.
- [45:11]
Podcast Host / Tara Davis Woodhull
Right?
- [45:11]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
I heard that it's gonna be a book of series. This is the first book you're going to be writing.
- [45:16]
Podcast Host / Tara Davis Woodhull
More.
- [45:16]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
Yes, ma'.
- [45:17]
Podcast Host / Tara Davis Woodhull
Am.
- [45:17]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
Is it gonna be. You gonna change it up?
- [45:19]
Commercial Announcer / Danielle Robay
It's gonna be the same storyline, like
- [45:20]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
a continuous story, or what you gonna do? It's gonna be the same main characters, like Boley Cooper is our black version of Perry Mason. And what people don't realize, Jess, is, man, Perry Mason was written by Errol stanley in the 1920s and 1930s. So one, we are still talking about Perry Mason. They are still making movies based on that character. So I would hope that, you know, we, our children, children, will be talking about Bolly Cooper and his investigator capes and, you know, Princess Alvarez, the smart Hispanic sister from Puerto Rico who's on his team, who's a lawyer and all that kind of stuff, because we want to have our heroes, people who look like us. And so we are cautiously optimistic. The book is selling great. I want you know about books. Keep going and keep buying them. Tell everybody who's listening. Go right now and go to Amazon, Barnes and Nova, your black bookstores. Audit, audit, audit. Because the more people buy it, the more opportunity we have to keep writing books about our cases, our stories.
- [46:33]
DJ Envy
This is My last question. At this stage in your life and career, what does this book represent for you personally? Is it a warning? Is it a release or a legacy move?
- [46:43]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
I think it's a combination of warning and legacy. And the reason it's a warning, Charlamagne, is that Bro Lee Cooper, even though they got so many things pointing to the truth to point, is where this black man should get justice, his family should get justice. It doesn't matter. The system doesn't care about the truth. The system cares about the system. And what we have to understand is that we have to make sure our young people are more intelligent than those who will seek to oppress them. That's what this book is about, the warning and the legacy. Because you hear how Bro Lee and them, even though they deny the man bail, even though he's paralyzed, they want to put him in prison. Because not only are they trying to kill him, they trying to kill the truth and everything about it. Just like with George Floyd, when they assassinated him, they had to assassinate his character. And so that's the warning piece of. But the legacy piece of it is this man I love. And please write reviews. Black people. A lot of writers said publishing companies, you know, they part of American culture. I remember the movie where Philadelphia, where Denzel Washington says that famous line, he said, in this courtroom, everything is colorblind. And he said, judge, regrettably, we don't live in this courtroom in America, publishing companies, everything, they go by what they see happening. And so we need people writing reviews on Goodreads and Amazon. And one of the best things this lady said to me at the reading the book, and I don't want to give it away because it got a legal a lot of twists and turns, plots, and everything changes. She said, and she was crying. We've been having this Worst in the lie book tour. We've been going to all these cities. We were at Howard Law School last night. We're gonna be at Newark, New Jersey, Symphony hall tonight with Mayor Roz Baraka. But she said, attorney Crump, I'm just so happy to read your book and to where we can find black joy in each other. She said that's what she took away from it. And that made me feel like it is why we do this, the fact that there was one reviewer who said this was a great legal thriller novel written by us, for us, about us, our struggles, our community and our victories and our gods. And I said, wow. I mean, people out writing their reviews on their own. And that's what heartens me. But we gotta write those reviews as Charlamagne knows. And everybody wrote a book because you can't trust their numbers and stuff always. But when you see the reviews keep coming in, you're like, no, no, somebody. Somebody reading the book. And so I thank you all. Charlamagne, Lauren, Envy, Jesse, Queen, Y', all, we in this together. Thank you so much. Absolutely appreciate you so much. You always answer the phone.
- [50:12]
Podcast Host / Tara Davis Woodhull
I'm just sitting here thinking like you
- [50:13]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
be doing a lot of things, but you always answer the phone. That's right. Hey, Lauren and I appreciate the cause when we're trying to use our platforms to help our people and tell our stories. So you keep doing what you do. Queen. All right. Attorney Benjamin Crump. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Thank you.
- [50:30]
DJ Envy
Yes, sir.
- [50:32]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
Hold up.
- [50:33]
DJ Envy
Every day I wake up.
- [50:34]
Attorney Benjamin Crump
Wake your ass up.
- [50:35]
DJ Envy
The Breakfast Club.
- [50:38]
Commercial Announcer / Danielle Robay
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Attorney Benjamin Crump
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Podcast Host / Tara Davis Woodhull
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