INTERVIEW: Demaurice Smith Talks 'Turf Wars,' NFL 'Unincorporated,' Colin Kaepernick, Shedeur Sanders + More

Summary

The Breakfast Club – DeMaurice Smith on "Turf Wars," NFL Power Dynamics, Kaepernick, Shedeur Sanders & More

Podcast: The Breakfast Club (iHeartPodcasts)
Aired: September 5, 2025
Guests: DeMaurice Smith (former Executive Director, NFLPA)
Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God, Lola Rose

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Episode Overview

In this insightful, unfiltered interview, DeMaurice Smith—former head of the NFL Players Association—joins The Breakfast Club to discuss his new book "Turf Wars: The Fight for the Soul of America's Game." Smith pulls back the curtain on the business and political machinations of the NFL, his years sparring with league owners, union struggles for control and player rights, and high-profile moments like the Colin Kaepernick controversy and Shedeur Sanders’s NFL draft treatment. The episode is a masterclass on how power—more than just money—defines who calls the shots in American pro football, and, according to Smith, echoes broader trends in American society.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

DeMaurice Smith's Role & Philosophy as NFLPA Executive Director

• Union Leadership and Challenges ([02:45]–[04:33])

  • Smith describes being head of the NFLPA as "going to war with 31 billionaires" for player rights, pay, and healthcare.
  • Emphasizes many players’ naivete upon entering the league: “They know virtually nothing about the ruthlessness and the cutthroat nature of the business.” ([03:16])
  • Smith’s credo: “Ten toes to the line every day going up against the guys who… sit in the sky suites and want our dudes to work… and just tell the guys the truth.” ([03:40])
  • “You’re not in the will”—Smith’s hard-hitting message to rookies who believe the "NFL family" rhetoric. ([04:09])

• Owners’ Control Over the NFL and Players ([04:44]–[07:37])

  • The league’s main obsession is control, not money alone: “They want to control everything.” ([04:46])
  • Explains how, before 2011, owners could unilaterally add as many games as they wanted without increasing player compensation.
  • The 2011 CBA win: “We wrestled back that unilateral control and got the ability to govern our work.” ([06:29])
  • On “Turf Wars”: “I wanted to write ‘Turf Wars’ because it’s about power... not a football book, but about power.” ([07:08])

NFL’s Structure: A "Socialist" System Favoring Owners

• NFL as the "Most Unregulated, Socialistic Business in America" ([07:37]–[11:29])
  • “The NFL privatizes their wealth and socializes their cost.” ([08:00])
  • “There are no 10Ks, no annual reports, no SEC control... Up to a few years ago, the office was a 501c6 nonprofit.” ([08:24])
  • Mergers, special Congressional treatment, and centralized TV rights consolidate owner control.
  • Teams are LLCs/LLPs: “They loan money to each other, they borrow from each other... at the end of the year, [they pay] damn near nothing” in taxes. ([10:58])
  • No audited financials exist: “They do not create audited financial statements because they don't want anyone to know.” ([11:08])

Salary Cap, Player Ownership, and Team Power

• Why Players Can't Get Ownership Stakes ([12:02]–[15:14])
  • “No team wants to give a player a share of the team because no team wants to give up that control.” ([12:13])
  • Salary cap rules prohibit ownership stakes; all owners would have to agree.
  • Compares with Green Bay Packers’ unique structure, which is a legacy of small-market survival: “Pure greed and pure control” means no team has emulated it since. ([16:36])

NFL, Politics, and American Power

• NFL as a Reflection of America ([16:58]–[19:09])
  • “The way that the NFL is run is the way that our country is run.”
  • On political power: “It’s about control and power… if you’re either unwilling or unable to go ten toes to the line to confront power… you’re just gonna get your ass beat.” ([17:10])
  • Critiques modern Democrats’ approach to power: “They are not to be negotiated with… they’re not going to do it.” ([19:09])
  • Analogy: Democrats (players/NFLPA) vs. Republicans (owners): “They [owners/Republicans] shot over everybody 100%.” ([20:11])

Relationship with NFL Leadership

• On Roger Goodell and League Office ([21:58]–[22:56])
  • “Pure ass adversary,” Smith says of Commissioner Goodell.
  • Dismantles the “commissioner as a neutral” myth: “No, Roger gets paid $63 million a year… to represent the interest of the owners and a plane for life.” ([22:03], [22:30])

Union Strategy and High-Profile NFL Controversies

The Kaepernick Saga

• Smith’s Response and View on Kaepernick ([24:09]–[32:52])

  • “I wasn't hands off on that one...The first person to do an interview after Colin knelt was me, because I knew exactly how the league was going to turn that story.” ([24:17])
  • “The league turned every gun that they had on Colin Kaepernick...” ([41:13])
  • Kaepernick as "the general": “There isn’t a warrior campaign... that doesn’t try to kill the lead general… The league took the opportunity to turn its guns fully on Kaepernick.” ([33:02])
  • Smith believes Kaepernick was "100%" blackballed and was “one of the top 10 quarterbacks in the league” at the time. ([29:51])
  • The controversial Atlanta workout: “That surprised me. It disappointed me.” ([30:53])
  • “You lose 100% of the fights you don’t fight.” ([31:44])
  • Trump’s comments and players’ solidarity: “I am sure he did not understand he called every NFL player’s mother a bitch… that was the weekend you saw every player kneel.” ([35:20])

• Collusion suit and Settlement ([37:00]–[39:42])

  • Smith says the NFLPA was not informed of the Kaepernick settlement: “I woke up and found out about the settlement from, I think, ESPN.” ([40:03])
  • Regrets the lost opportunity to use discovery to expose collusion: “We were more interested in the facts of who made the decision to blackball a quarterback…” ([38:44])
  • On settlements: “There’s nothing to settle for the union.” ([39:19])

Shedeur Sanders & Racial Dynamics of the NFL Draft

• Shedeur Sanders’ Draft Slide ([42:01]–[45:42])
  • Smith finds it “inexplicable” how Sanders dropped so far in the draft despite consensus high ratings: “There is not an NFL owner that liked the way in which he carried himself in college. That is not their vibe.” ([46:00])
  • “I look at the arm strength and the size of Chador [Shedeur] and what he was able to demonstrate in college… he should be able to do in the NFL.” ([44:38])
  • Suggests race, image, and control of outspoken Black players might motivate owner decisions.

Collusion Beyond Kaepernick: Guaranteed Contracts

• NFL Collusion, Guaranteed Contracts, and the Lawsuit ([46:22]–[49:56])
  • Smith confirms (“the arbitrator found... the management council... urged teams not to give guaranteed contracts to players" ([47:32]).
  • Criticizes his successor for entering a secret agreement: “My successor... told the players that the players lost the collusion lawsuit... when in reality... owners told... not to do guaranteed contracts.”
  • On the magnitude: “If you think about... why the MLB union became so powerful… what really broke the owners… was they lost collusion cases. And it’s billions.” ([49:09])
  • Reiterates: “You lose 100% of the fights you never fight.” ([48:31])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You are not in the family because you are not in the will.” – DeMaurice Smith, tough love for rookies ([04:09])
• “The NFL privatizes their wealth and socializes their cost.” – Smith critiquing the NFL business model ([08:00])
• “No team wants to give up that control.” – On why players can’t get ownership ([12:13])
• “The way that the NFL is run is the way that our country is run.” – Smith on NFL as a microcosm ([16:58])
• “Pure ass adversary.” – On his view of Roger Goodell ([22:03])
• “I mean, the owners are serial killers. Let’s not… Again, they are absolute killers.” – On NFL owners ([34:45])
• “There is not an NFL owner that liked the way in which [Shedeur Sanders] carried himself in college. That is not their vibe.” ([46:00])
• “You have a misunderstanding of power and a misunderstanding that these people are out to blow us out.” ([21:55])
• “You lose 100% of the fights you don’t fight.” – Repeated theme of Smith’s union strategy ([31:44], [48:31])
• “Owners aren’t stupid—morons on occasion, but not stupid. They realized long ago that a single massive army is more powerful than 32 regional ones.” – Smith, reading from "Turf Wars" ([50:12])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:45] – Smith describes the real job of the NFLPA head
• [04:09] – “You’re not in the will” and rookie misconceptions
• [07:37] – “The NFL does not have a soul. The players have a soul.”
• [08:00] – NFL as a socialistic, unregulated monopoly
• [12:13] – Why player team ownership is virtually impossible
• [16:58] – NFL as a reflection of American power dynamics
• [21:58] – "Pure ass adversary” on Roger Goodell
• [24:17] – Smith’s account of his response to the Kaepernick protests
• [29:51] – “100%” certainty Kaepernick was blackballed
• [35:20] – Trump’s inflammatory comments and player backlash
• [38:44] – Frustrations over Kaepernick collusion settlement
• [42:01] – Shedeur Sanders and “inexplicable” NFL draft drop
• [47:32] – Confirmation of owners colluding to block guaranteed contracts

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Tone, Format, and Final Thoughts

• The conversation is candid, witty, blunt, and often passionate; Smith doesn’t shy away from strong language or hard truths.
• The hosts push Smith to go beyond cliches and reveal the real politics of the NFL, player activism, and union infighting.
• Smith's central thesis: The NFL is a masterclass in owner control and political power, not unlike broader patterns in American society—with players needing real solidarity and a “war” mentality just to get a fair shake.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in sports, labor, politics, or how power really operates behind the scenes. DeMaurice Smith offers an uncompromising look at who runs the NFL, why the business of football is all about control, and how landmark controversies—from extra games to Kaepernick to the stalling of guaranteed contracts—are less about sport than about the fight for power.

Transcript

[DeMaurice Smith]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Hunter]

I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Join me every weekday as I share bite sized stories of missing and murdered black women and girls in America. Stories like Erica Hunt, a young mother vanished without a trace after a family gathering on 4th of July weekend 2016. No goodbyes, no clues, just gone. Listen to Hunting for Answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network. IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator (Shock Incarceration Podcast)]

What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He said, you are a number. A New York state number, and we own you.

[Narrator (Shock Incarceration Podcast)]

Listen to shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[DeMaurice Smith]

The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here and we're locked in. That means more juicy cheesement, terrible love advice, evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, we're not doing that this season. Oh, well, this season we're leveling up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Each episode will feature a special bestie.

[DJ Envy]

And you're not gonna wanna miss it. My name is Curly.

[DeMaurice Smith]

And I'm Maya. Get in here. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hunter]

Every case that is a cold case.

[DeMaurice Smith]

That has DNA right now in a.

[Hunter]

Backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

[DeMaurice Smith]

On the new podcast, America's Crime Lab.

[Interviewer]

Every case.

[DeMaurice Smith]

And the DNA holds the truth.

[DJ Envy]

He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[DeMaurice Smith]

This technology's already solving so many cases.

[Interviewer]

Listen to America's Crime Lab on the.

[Hunter]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Hold up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Every day I wake up.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Wake your ass up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The Breakfast Club. Y' all finished or y' all done?

[DJ Envy]

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Jess. Hilarious Charlamagne, the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. Lola Rose is here as well. We got a special guest in the building.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, indeed.

[DJ Envy]

He said just call him D. D. Ladies and gentlemen, demorris Smith.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Welcome, man. It is a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Thank you. I'm sorry I'm a little late. I would have crushed breakfast had I been here earlier.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, you still got time to get some Golden Corral done. But you're the former executive director of the nflpa. Tell us what that title, how you know?

[DeMaurice Smith]

Simply, you're the head of the union. You represent all 18, 35 players. You go to war with 31 billionaires, you do the best to make sure our guys get paid. You make sure that they have health care, make sure that they have control over their work. You govern their pensions, their post career training, everything. So you're the union representing a lot of players. And they're, look, they're young. For most of our guys, it's their first job, which makes it difficult to sometimes represent them because they've never had the kind of jobs I had coming up. Paper routes, working at a pizza place. Those guys come into the business of football believing and understanding how to play the game. They know virtually nothing about the ruthlessness and the cutthroat nature of the business. And your job as the head of the union, at least for me, I only had one way of doing it. You know, my coach used to call it ten toes to the line every day going up against the guys who, you know, sit in the sky suites and want our dudes to work. And then the other thing is, man, just tell the guys the truth. And sometimes they don't want to hear it because they've grown up in a culture of football that rewards them for everything they do on the field and they have a misunderstanding that Jerry Jones doesn't care.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wow.

[DeMaurice Smith]

And Robert Kraft doesn't care. And you know, there's always that sign on draft day that says, welcome to the NFL family. And I told the same rookies for 14 years, you are not in the family because you are not in the will. It's real. I mean, again, some guys don't like to hear that because it's a little brutal. That's where I came from, and that's kind of the way I know how to do business. But you're not in the will.

[DJ Envy]

What's the most difficult thing you have to deal with with being head of the union as far as dealing with teams? What's the worst thing that the most thing that they hate giving up. And I'm sure you can control. Control. What type of control?

[DeMaurice Smith]

All of it. You know, I forget who it was listening to. Deion, who was always great to me, he always had this line, you either, you either chase the game or chase the bag, right? You know, the bag, you chase the money. And sometimes our guys are just focused on the money. What drives the NFL is control. They want to control everything. And they. You know, for example, up until 2011, the National Football League had the Unilateral right. Exclusive right to add as many games to the schedule as possible, which is crazy. They could have gone up to 21 games, 23 games if they wanted to. I mean, I'm a little older than everybody else in the room. Don't say anything else. Happy birthday. Thank you, brother. But I remember a 14 game season. I remember a 16 game season. You know, when it went from 14 to 16, the players never got any more money. Wow, I didn't know that. Nobody does, right? It's.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They don't get paid for the extra game.

[DeMaurice Smith]

No. From when they went from a 12 game season to a 14 game season to a 16 game season, they never got an increased share of revenue.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I get it. Because their contract, their contract is already set for the year.

[DeMaurice Smith]

You just, you just spread out the money longer. Right. And even guys, when I came in in 2009, didn't understand that. Right. Yes. Revenue increases, so the cap goes up. But it's just like, you know, you're working at a. I work at Jerry's Sub Shop. Right. You work Monday through Friday. Boston give a, you know, how you, how you deal with your life or what, what you've got going that day. But, but if the guy comes in and says, hey man, I got a good idea. Everybody's going to work on Saturday and Sunday, first question out of my mouth would be, what? How much overtime on a gate? When they went from 12 to 14 to 16, the players never got paid overtime.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's crazy.

[DeMaurice Smith]

So in 2011, I mean, we went through a war. I mean, they declare a war on us. I do war. The big win for the players in 2011 was we, we wrestled back that unilateral control and we got the ability to govern our work. So, you know, that resulted in, you know, you. Fast forward to 2020. The league wanted a 17th game fine. You know, the players wanted a 17th game fine. Some players didn't want a 17th game fine. But it's a democracy. So the players voted for a 17th game. The kicker there was. The league bought a 17th game in 2020 for approximately 1.6, $1.7 billion over a 10 year period. It was a game they had for free in 2011, the game of football. The reason I wrote the book, it's about power. And I think that at the end of the day, I never wanted a football book because I'm not a football guy. My high school coach will tell you I was probably the worst high school football player he's ever seen. But I wanted to write Turf wars. Because it's about power.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I love the header. It says, the fight for the soul of America's game. Because I thought to myself, does the NFL have a soul?

[DeMaurice Smith]

The NFL does not have a soul. The players have a soul. Right? And the NFL is the largest, most unregulated, socialistic business in America.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Break that down.

[DeMaurice Smith]

The NFL privatizes their wealth and socializes their cost. Right? So you think about stadiums, for example. Every state and local government goes through a referendum to get taxpayers to pay for the owner's stadium. We pay for it, he keeps the profit. So what they do better than anybody else in the country. There are no 10ks, there are no 10qs. There is no annual report. There's no public board of directors. There's no SEC control, there's no attorney General control. There's no state attorney general control. They are a completely unregulated business. Up to a few Years ago, the NFL league office was a 501c6 nonprofit.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Hmm.

[DeMaurice Smith]

They're going to do $25 billion next year.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How? How can a corporation like that be.

[DeMaurice Smith]

A nonprofit, not a corporation? How.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But I'm saying, how can they. How can they not be a.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Got time. Break down a little history. All right, so first thing that happens in. In 1960s, they have the AFL, American Football League and the NFL. Those two entities merge, right? So think about it. Like Lowe's and Home Depot, right? If Lowe's and Home Depot merged, what would be the price of hammer? $500.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Right.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Because there's no competition.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Absolutely.

[DeMaurice Smith]

In the 1960s, that's exactly what the NFL did. They became the merger of Lowe's and Home Depot. So they merged. The only way they could merge was they needed special legislation from Congress, which they got. So think about it. The taxpayers who these dudes are supposed to work for allowed the NFL and the AFL to merge, which basically meant they eliminated all of the competition from now until the end of time, first thing that happens. Second, under the Sports Broadcasting act, they also have the unique ability of negotiating singular television contracts. So instead of the Rams doing a TV contract or the Patriots or anybody else, the NFL does one big TV contract a year. Virtually nobody else can do that. So they've cornered the market on the merger, cornered the market on media. At the end of the day, all of the teams are not corporations. They are LLCs and LLPs. Limited Liability Partnerships. So, you know, my job is to audit the teams, which, you know, gave me an ulcer and, you know, got me addicted to Johnnie Walker Blue. But, you Think of those corporations. You take something like the Dallas Cowboys. There is no one singular Dallas Cowboy entity. They're made up of dozens of little LLPs and LLCs. They loan money to each other, they borrow from each other, they pay each other. So the way this thing works from a tax liability standpoint is if they do everything right, you know what they pay in taxes at the end of the year?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Damn near nothing. Yeah.

[DeMaurice Smith]

So they're not a corporation.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's crazy.

[DeMaurice Smith]

They don't file anything publicly. Make it even crazier. You cannot find an audited financial statement for any NFL team or the NFL as it exists. They do not create audited financial statements because they don't want anyone to know.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So when they put those numbers out and they say, hey, we made this year, this amount this year, that's just something they're throwing out there.

[DeMaurice Smith]

That's just something they're throwing out there. And you know, and look, I like magazines like Fortune that do the valuations of teams. That's not based on any audited financial statement. I mean, the only people who audit them is the NFL Players Association. And we can't talk about how much money.

[DJ Envy]

I always wanted to know, would a player. Is there certain things that they cannot give a certain player? Like for instance, let's say. I don't want to say I'll use LeBron James.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Right.

[DJ Envy]

I know it's not the same sport, but let's say I wanted LeBron to stay on my team.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Right.

[DJ Envy]

Right now he's probably the biggest player, biggest draw. Could they give LeBron a percentage of a team?

[DeMaurice Smith]

No. Why is not?

[DJ Envy]

Because I always wondered, like, even like.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

A Michael Jordan, why didn't you ask about an NFL player? I don't want to know because I'm.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Trying to think of a place. Super duper big. Yeah. Who has the leverage? Who has the leverage?

[Interviewer]

Tom Brady.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Patrick Mahomes. Brady or Brady Tom, Somebody like that. Would they give him a percentage because they built that?

[DeMaurice Smith]

Would they? Would they? Is a different question. I think the answer is no. No team wants to give a player a share of the team because no team wants to give up that control. Right. But to your question, can they pay them that if the player demanded. No, because that would be a violation of the salary cap. So the way the salary cap work, I mean, I'll make it really simple. You take all of the revenue that you generate in. In sport, players get about 50% of that revenue, that all, and then you divide that by 32 teams. That's salary cap it's not that complicated. If you gave an individual player a certain ownership interest in the team, that would be a violation of the salary cap rules. And here's why.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And wouldn't all the owners have to agree on it?

[DeMaurice Smith]

Oh, all the owners would have to agree on it and they never would.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, you got to play it like Brady, right? And say, Brady says, I want to, I want to leave New England.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Can't do it.

[DJ Envy]

If they said, you know what, we'll give you 1% of the team.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Can't do it. He can't do it. I mean, look, if the players wanted to negotiate a new CBA and made, and made that, you know, something that the players would want more power to him, I think it would be, I would think it'd be a bigger fight than you saw Kaepernick deal with because none of the players. You know, again, these are, for the most part, these teams fall into two big categories. Either they are family owned teams, you know, the Rooneys, the Marrows, the Hunts, or it's a set of owners who made some outside money and they bought a team and they're generating money for their own. They do not want to share anything. Right. I mean, I'll give you the best example. There is no NFL team in the country that couldn't give their city a percentage of the team if they wanted taxpayers to help pay them for a stadium. Think about San Diego. Few years ago, they wanted to stay in San Diego. They put up a referendum to see if taxpayers would pay for a new stadium. Taxpayers overwhelmingly in San Diego said, nah, we don't want to use our tax money for, for a new stadium. So the Chargers left and went to Los Angeles. The only thing Dean Spanos had to do if he really wanted to stay in San Diego, if he, if he put his money where his mouth is and said, I want the fans of San Diego to love us. I love the city of San Diego. The only thing he had to do was to do what you asked about LeBron. He could have gone to the city of San Diego and said, hey, look, I want taxpayer revenue to build a stadium. Here's what I'll do. I'll give the city of San Diego 5% of the team and the citizens will own part of the Chargers. Did you do that? No.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Don't the packets have some type of structure like that?

[DeMaurice Smith]

They have a different structure the city and shareholders own on the team. And you know why that happened, right? Cause it's old history. And I'm just a, I'm Just a dork at the end of the day. Right. So, you know, back in. In the day, you know, you had all of these teams based in these traditional textile cities. You know, Kansas City, Green Bay, you know, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh. I mean, working class. These are working class towns that. I'm not knocking any. Any of those cities, but those cities did not become Los Angeles, Boston, and. And Atlanta or certainly New York. Right. So you've got a little team in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Green Bay, Wisconsin. Everybody there knew that if we don't figure out something to try to keep this team in Green Bay, this team is going to another place. And this is before. This is before Jacksonville. This is before expansion teams anywhere else. Yeah. So the deal was they figured out a way of, whoa, we will give you everything you want for a new stadium. But here's. Here's the poll. We want the city to own the stadium and own the team. And they said yes. But from the day Green Bay was. The Green Bay packers went to a public ownership. How many teams followed that model to stay in their traditional city? Not one. Pure greed. Pure greed and pure control. Right. And so look, I wanted to write this book again, I'm not a football guy. I wanted to write this book because the way that the NFL is run is the way that our country is run.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Ooh. Break that down. I'm here for that.

[DeMaurice Smith]

If you looked behind the current president's inauguration, who was standing behind him? All the tech guys, all the rich billionaire guys. Right. It is about control over money. If you have control, you will have the money. For us to figure out a way how to get back to a system that truly represents us, to have congressmen and congresswomen who truly represent us. We all have to understand that this is all about power. It has. It is. Yes, I get it. Everybody wants to focus on money. It's about control and power. And if you are either unwilling or unable to go 10 toes to the line to confront power like. Like a players Union did for 15 years, you're just gonna get your ass beat. And the reality is, man, you can. I love the eight years of. Of Obama, but everything from the middle end of his term until now, we lost the women's right to abortion. We have lost the Voting Rights Act. We have lost the ability to control redistricting and gerrymandering in state houses. Dc, My home city is a home city that's got the National Guard patrolling. Let's get it clear. They're only patrolling the safe areas in D.C. let's not get it twisted right. They're not in. The National Guard is not in Southeast where I grew up. Really. They're downtown at Union Station where nothing's happening. I mean, unless somebody drops an ice cream cone.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Right.

[DeMaurice Smith]

You know, but, but, but again, you know, you're looking at a president that literally federalized the occupation of the nation's capital. And that's where I grew up. That's where my parents grew up. But this is a president and a party that has run roughshod, and I'm a Democrat. They have run roughshod over the Democratic Party for the last 15, 20 years.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Not even close. You're absolutely right. It's been a blowout.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Been a blowout. And my critique of the Democratic Party, a misunderstanding of. Of power. These people are not to be negotiated with. They are not to be trusted. You cannot sit there and decide that you are going to make some sort of agreement with them and expect for them to hold up their side of the agreement. They're not going to do it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Let me ask you a question. If the Democrats, based off this analogy, are the players and the Republicans are the owners, who's the nflpa?

[DeMaurice Smith]

NFLPA is the players.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

NFLPA is the.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Yeah. NBA is a union man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Democrats in this situation.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Democrats in this situation. I mean, it's. It's. Put it this way, I mean, I had a rough fight over 15 years. I mean, everything from Deflategate to Ray Rice to Cap to Covid. I'm not saying we won every fight, but we fought every fight. And you lose 100% of the fights you don't want to fight.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Got you. So the Republicans are definitely the owners.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Because they shot over everybody 100%. And I think in this analogy, at the end of the day, look, I. I don't have any friends at the National Football League. I am not going to get a holiday gift from any one of these. I know it's a family show, so I'll keep it clean.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, go ahead.

[DeMaurice Smith]

And, Chris, I'm not gonna get any family show from these MFs. I mean, he was gonna say I was gonna. You know, my mom might be listening. She's like, I thought she was going.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

With niggers, but.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Normally I would go, look, I go with hard with our guys, right?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because you go to hard R with our.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Hard with our guys. Oh, come on. Come on, bro. Man, come on, man. Good God, man. Pump the brakes. Good God. Like, chill out. What are you drinking? I don't know what's in this car.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Viva. Well, this is a good.

[DeMaurice Smith]

No I go hard with our guys because, look, our guys come in to the NFL system believing that because they are one of the top 250 guys that make it to the league every year. When they walk across the stage at the draft, it always boiled my blood that our dudes hugged Roger Goodell like he gave them some shit, like they didn't earn it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[DeMaurice Smith]

The only reason you were on the stage is you were one of the top 250 guys. He didn't give you anything. So shake his fucking hand like a grown ass man. Right? And then walk away. I mean, I worked for big law firms. They gave me, you know, I got great jobs there. There was a day that I didn't walk in and hug the managing partner like he gave me some stuff. I think you have a misunderstanding of power and a misunderstanding that these people are out to blow us out.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How did you look at Roger Goodell? Did you look at him as more of an ally or adversary?

[DeMaurice Smith]

Pure ass adversary.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wow.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I mean, look, Roger. I mean, he's there to protect the owners, basically. That's not even basically. I mean, the commissioner is a myth. So they created this title called Commissioner way back in the day because it makes us think, oh, the dude's in the middle and he's just making sure that football is good for the players and football is good for the. Good for the owners. No, Roger gets paid $63 million a year.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

64.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I mean, he may have gotten a bonus. I don't know. I don't. I don't care. You know, I know, I know. When we do have lunch, he buys. So, no, he gets paid 63, $64 million to represent the interest of the owners and a plane for life. I'm not even mad about the money. It's the plane.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Damn.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I mean, that's the kind of thing where you're like, jesus, play no football. Think about it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

For him to be objective about players.

[DeMaurice Smith]

He's not paid to be a. Hell, no.

[Interviewer]

Are you able to be this well, were you able to be dishonest when you were in your role?

[DeMaurice Smith]

100%. I mean, I came from out of football. Just background for me. I was a homicide prosecutor for eight years in D.C. after that, I went to a big law firm. I didn't have anything to do with sports when I got elected into the job. So I came after what I consider a legend, a guy named Gene Upshaw, who was the former executive director. But Gene died in the job. You know, he went into the hospital on a Wednesday and died On a Sunday.

[Interviewer]

Oh, my God.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Jesus.

[DeMaurice Smith]

And, you know, I ran against two former NFL PA presidents, and, you know, I won. They didn't. So I always took the job from a standpoint of I never looked for an NFL job. I never wanted to work for a team. I don't need anything from the owners. I wasn't there to become your friend. So I know how to do one thing. I know how to do war. Right. And I know how to. How I was hired at Latham and these big, big law firms to basically represent the richest, biggest companies in the world and do game strategy. That's what I know how to do.

[Interviewer]

How hard was it for you navigating a Colin Kaepernick situation because people felt like y' all were hands off? You are very vocal. Seem like you would be hands off.

[DeMaurice Smith]

But, yeah, I wasn't hands off on that one.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[DeMaurice Smith]

You know, the first person to do an interview after Colin knelt was me because I knew exactly how the league was going to turn that story. And, you know, I didn't know that he was going to kneel. You know, it was a preseason game and I remember getting a call from one of my PR guys that this is now going to be a thing. It's going to be a thing tomorrow. So I gave an interview with the Nation, I think, that night or that morning, to frame. This is why he's kneeling, and this is why he's doing it. But I also knew in a heartbeat that, again, going back to this power man, once the league realized that this is an individual player making a political statement that is rooted in history and rooted in fact, I knew in a.

[DJ Envy]

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[Hunter]

I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Join me every weekday as I share bite sized stories of missing and murdered Black women and girls in America. There are several ways we can all do better at protecting Black women. My contribution is shining a light on our missing sisters and amplifying their disregarded stories. Stories like Tameka Anderson. As she drove toward Galvez, she was in contact with several people talking on the phone as she made her way to what should have been a routine transaction. But Tameka never bought the car and she never returned home that day. One Podcast, One Mission Save Our Girls Join the search as we explore the chilling cases of missing and murdered Black women and girls. Listen to Hunting for Answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I had this like overwhelming sensation that I had to call her right then and I just hit call said, you know, hey, I'm Jacob Schick. I'm the CEO of One Tribe foundation and I just wanted to call and let her know there's a lot of people battling some of the very same things you're battling and there is help out there. The Good Stuff Podcast Season two takes.

[DJ Envy]

A deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a nonprofit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month, so.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Join hosts Jacob and Ashley Schick as.

[DJ Envy]

They bring you to the front lines.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Of One Tribe's mission. I was married to a Combat army veteran and he actually took his own life to suicide.

[Hunter]

One Tribe saved my life twice.

[DeMaurice Smith]

There's a lot of love that flows through this place and it's sincere. Now it's a personal mission. Don't have to go to any more funerals, you know. I got blown up on a react mission. I ended up having amputation below the knee of my right leg and a traumatic brain injury because I landed on my head. Welcome to season two of the Good Stuff. Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on.

[DJ Envy]

The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever.

[DeMaurice Smith]

You get your podcasts.

[Narrator (Shock Incarceration Podcast)]

What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on Earth. Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He said, you are a number, a.

[DeMaurice Smith]

New York state number, and we own you.

[Narrator (Shock Incarceration Podcast)]

Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, discipline, physical training, hard labor and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The first night was overwhelming and you don't know who's next to you, and.

[DeMaurice Smith]

We didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything.

[Narrator (Shock Incarceration Podcast)]

Listen to shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Second, that they were going to come after him and come after anybody who supported him. That's just the way that they play the game, right? And so for me, you know, I go into game mode. You know, first make sure that the message is out there. And two, if there ever comes a day when we believe that he is going to be blackballed for what he's doing, that's why we joined his lawyers and we sued the National Football League for blackballers.

[Interviewer]

I know you talk about it in your book a bit, but do you feel like he was blackballed 100%?

[DeMaurice Smith]

I mean, look at. I don't want to say anything that, that, that gets a whole bunch of other quarterbacks mad at me, but in the year that Colin wasn't signed, other than the top five quarterbacks in the league, you know, at that time, and I'm just talking about everybody from, from Brading, from Brady to Aaron Rodgers, everybody in the middle Breeze, Pat Peyton, everybody. Colin was the one of the top 10 quarterbacks in the league. I mean, everybody. There were, there were a bunch of other guys who had jobs, quarterback jobs. I, I don't think it's close that he was better than 50% of the starting quarterbacks in the National Football League.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

At the time, but when he worked out with the Raiders or when, I know when Roc Nation had put together the workout that he was supposed to go to, but then he went somewhere else.

[DeMaurice Smith]

The one in it? Yeah, the tryout in it in Atlanta.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. What do you think of those two situations? Were they just for show or whatever?

[DeMaurice Smith]

Hey, look, nobody was more stunned than me that he didn't go through with that tryout in Atlanta. I know that there was a fight over some waiver or something like that, but, you know, there were a bunch of college scouts there I'm sorry. A bunch of pro scouts there. Sorry about that. Pro scouts there. And he decided, you know, for his own reasons, that. That he wasn't going to throw that day. That. That surprised me. It disappointed me.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When he did go, though. He just went up the road.

[DeMaurice Smith]

He did. He went to a high school.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

High school, yeah.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Where all the, all the, all the scouts weren't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, yeah.

[DeMaurice Smith]

You know, and again, I just tend to be blunt. Right. But there were also dudes catching for him that day who were looking for jobs, too. They didn't go to the high school.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, got you. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

[DeMaurice Smith]

So, look, the. You lose 100% of the fights. You don't fight. Right. If. If I would have had to wave weight of a magic wand, would I have wanted him to go throw that day in front of a bunch of scouts and show off that fricking arm and show off, you know, his feet and his footwork? Yes.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You think it would have been hard to keep him out of the league after that if he had a good showing?

[DeMaurice Smith]

Yes. Yeah. Because I think the pressure shifts, right? I mean, everybody was there in Atlanta, press was there, scouts are there. Man, he is going to do well. And it is, at least from the way that I look at the game strategy, it becomes incredibly hard from that moment for the league to continue to hold him out of the league. When you've got 30 some odd scouts there, the media is there and he does well. I mean, I, I just look at pressure points, right. That puts the maximum amount of pressure on the league at that moment. And would I have loved to seen him go through that process. Yeah. But you know what, man?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, from your standpoint. I just got a couple more questions about the Kaepernick situation. Why. Why him, though? Because he wasn't the only player kneeling.

[DeMaurice Smith]

So he was the guy that started it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Got you.

[DeMaurice Smith]

So, you know, you. If you're reading the, you know, and again, I just, I'm just a war guy. If, if, you know, whether it's, you know, the Art of War or Machiavelli's Treatise on War, you know, there isn't a warrior campaign in the world that doesn't try to kill the lead general. Right. And nobody really wants to talk about it that way, but I don't care what war you have ever waged or whatever war any country has ever waged from literally the beginning of time, if you get an opportunity to kill the general, you kill the general. And I think that the league took the opportunity to turn its guns fully on Kaepernick. Because it was a hope, and I think it was misguided. I think it was a hope that if they show the rest of the players that they can control what happens to somebody with a loud voice, if they can control someone who looks like they might be bigger than the league, what do they do? They send a message to that guy, you, and they say, oh, no, no, no, we can control and put a bullet in you. And that's a message to everybody else.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't think it worked, though.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I don't think it did either.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It didn't stop anybody from yelling.

[DeMaurice Smith]

No, it didn't. And honestly, I thought that was one of the. That was one of the best times, one of the few great times that I had in the job, because guys responded to that in a way. I'm always looking for guys to be. To have a level of solidarity between them.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And, I mean, like, the owners.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Like the owners. I mean, the owners are serial killers. Let's not. Again, they are absolute killers. And for the union to survive, forget us winning, for us to just survive, we need more solidarity on our side than you do with the owners. And that's what you saw with our guys. And then that, you know, that night after the president gave that speech in Huntsville, you know, where he called and said, you know, wouldn't it be great if every owner. Right. I mean, I am sure that he did not understand that. He called every NFL player's mother a.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Son of a bitch. A bitch.

[DeMaurice Smith]

A bitch.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I mean, you know, from where we come from, you can say a lot of things. You get to that point, there is going to be a laying of hands on you. When you say. And I think when the Republicans woke up that morning and realized that even Trump had gone over the line by calling players mothers a bitch, man, that was the weekend you saw every player kneel. Right. I mean, I talk about it in the book. I flew to watch the Cowboys play, not because I'm a Cowboys fan.

[DJ Envy]

I went, thank God.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Be respectful.

[DeMaurice Smith]

We can go Cowboys, baby. Look, I mean, that Michael Parsons thing worked.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I know.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I mean, we don't have to talk about it. See? Okay. See, I don't know. He's a little salty. He's a little salty. You know. Okay, you said that week that involved with sharp objects to this side of the table.

[DJ Envy]

You said that week that you went.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Because I knew Jerry's team was going to kneel. And, you know, Jerry had come out and said, nobody's kneeling on my team because that's the way that he believes in control.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I knew his team was going to kneel, and I wanted to see what he was going to do.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He went out there and kneeled with him.

[DeMaurice Smith]

He moved his self from the end of the line to the middle of the line and knelt. Because for the only time that he has run that team, he understood the difference between being on the train or being in front of the train. And he chose to be on the train because his guys decided, as a group of men, this. And I was proud of him. But that's the job, right?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because y' all sued. You got with Collins lawyers and you sued the NFL.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

There was a settlement.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you think that's when leverage was lost? Was that the right thing to do? Except the settlement?

[DeMaurice Smith]

Yeah, I. I mean, so we represented him with his lawyers. His lawyers did the settlement. We didn't. I. I didn't know about the settlement. I woke up and saw it in the news.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, so the NFLBA didn't even know about it?

[DeMaurice Smith]

No.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That doesn't make any sense.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Welcome to part of my job.

[Interviewer]

That's why people were confused about. That's what I was saying with the hands on, hands off thing. People were confused where y' all stood because things were happening and y' all weren't.

[DeMaurice Smith]

And it's hard because, you know, again, you know, I'm a lawyer, and lawyers have attorney client privilege. I didn't know about the settlement. The NFL pay did not know about the settlement. We woke up and found out about it that morning, and as a result, it dismissed our part of the case against the league. That's the way it happens. He has the right to do that. He has the right to be represented by his own lawyers. Fine. At the same time, you know, I always tried to not second guess lawyers, you know, because I'm not there. I don't know what the terms of the settlement were. I don't know how much money exchanged hands. I wasn't involved in negotiations. So I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna second guess another lawyer, but I will say this. The NFLPA's job is to protect our players. And again, I only know one way of doing that, and that is to start off at 100 miles an hour and go to 150. And if there's something in the way, you run over it. We were more interested in the facts of who made the decision to blackball a quarterback, a black quarterback in the National Football League. I'm interested in what's in Your phone. I'm interested in what emails you're sending. I'm interested because I get all of that in discovery, right? Just like the, you know, the collusion lawsuit that I filed against the players after Deshaun Watson. I filed that lawsuit before I left. I wasn't there for the ruling, but the reason I filed that lawsuit is, man, we're looking for the truth because the truth gives us the ability to fight the control, right? So my job in any collusion lawsuit, man, I'm going hard. And there's nothing to settle for the, for the union, right?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So once you take all that money, you, you, you, you waive all the rights to set the discovery and everything. It's like you don't care about. You don't care about the actual issue anymore.

[DeMaurice Smith]

You never got it. Gotcha. Okay, so I'm not second guessing anyone.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, but we're all y' all on the same page about that.

[DJ Envy]

Obviously not.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Anyway, anybody read the book? Yeah, I know. There's stuff that I'm trying to avoid saying, saying because I had conversations with their side of the lawyer, so I can't divulge anything. But I can tell you that I woke up and found out about the settlement from, I think, espn.

[DJ Envy]

Let me ask, what were your thoughts on the way they handled the Sanders.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Young man control.

[DJ Envy]

Same situation do you think that was?

[DeMaurice Smith]

Look, I don't know what happened. You know, I borrow this line from James Baldwin all the time. I don't know if in your heart you're a racist, but I see what you do, right? So I look at the way in which a young black man knelt during a preseason game. And the league turned, I believe, every gun that they had on Colin Kaepernick. And again, let's be clear, he didn't interrupt a game, he didn't kneel on the field, he didn't stop the game in any way. This was all before the game, Right. So no one can make an argument to me like they did during anthem that, well, you know, D, this is impacting, you know, the economics of the game or this is impacting football. No. Even if it's during the national anthem, this is before the game, right? And I gotta sit in the stands. I look, I watch guys in the, in the stands during the national anthem, buying another beer, swigging another beer. You go to Baltimore in the middle of the national anthem, they yell, oh, in favor of the Baltimore Orioles. If you're going to say that that's disrespectful for him kneeling, it's disrespectful. Just as disrespectful for you to say something about the Baltimore Orioles during the national anthem. But I don't see anybody, you know, pulling down or turning guns on dudes on that. They went after Colin because he was iconic and they were afraid that what he was doing would lead to other people doing things and they would lose control. Then you get to the shadow that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Would have happened if you didn't take the session.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Right? I, I don't know. I'm just being nice on the. But then you get to Shador. And again, I wasn't. Nobody invites me into the draft rooms. But I asked myself a pretty simple linear question. Is, is he better than Johnny Manziel? Shadur Sanders?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Johnny Manziel, yes. In college, Come on. Manny Manziel was a beast in college.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Now come on, man. Like he, I mean, I like Johnny Menzel.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I mean, yeah, Johnny Manzel, he's a beast in college.

[DeMaurice Smith]

But two people, if you put them side by side, as far as who is more likely to be a pro caliber quarterback, Shador beats him to death, right? It's inexplicable for him to fall as far as he did in the draft, right? You think about the number of quarterbacks that the NFL owners pull off of the draft line.

[DJ Envy]

He was predicted to go first round.

[DeMaurice Smith]

So. So every other prognosticator is wrong and the NFL is right. No, that doesn't make any sense. I just go back to the number of quarterbacks that they pulled off that line. After you get to the middle of the second round, every one of those quarterbacks that you pulled off the line, I would have taken Chador over any one of those dudes. So I find it inexplicable except for one thing of why he would drop so far in the draft on the draft side. Because remember, think about it. You draft this guy, you know, he still doesn't make the team, right? I find it inexplicable that a person of his caliber, the things that he was able to accomplish in college, for him to drop as far as he did in the draft round.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I agree with that. I disagree with the Johnny Manziel comparison. Like, Johnny Manziel was a beast, bro. He won the Heisman Trophy. Like Johnny was different in college. He sucked in the pros, right? But college, he was.

[DeMaurice Smith]

There's a lot of dudes who do well in college, I guess where we agree to disagree, but here I think we can agree on. There's a lot of guys who Perform in a college system whose size and skill will not make them terribly successful in the pro system. Right. And I think that when you look at the arm strength and the size of Chador and what he was able to demonstrate in college, both with his feet and his ability to. His ability to throw. Just crazy. Right? What he was able to do in college mimicked what I. I thought he should be able to do in the National Football League. But fine, we can disagree about all that. I keep coming back to this guy dropped so far in the draft despite everybody rating him at a much higher level.

[Interviewer]

And also the people like the. I think people were awaiting like his debut. I think he was. It's 2.2 million views.

[DeMaurice Smith]

It was the ratings I got to do with play.

[Interviewer]

But doesn't. So he plays well. We know that. Right. But.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And I love you though. But he. He is third string on the Browns right now.

[DeMaurice Smith]

He is.

[Interviewer]

But. But how much does a team want to.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

This is through training camp. This is through. You know what I'm saying? He's third screen on the Browns right now.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I guess what I would say is there are. I'm sorry, what was the question?

[Interviewer]

I was just asking how much does that matter? Like cuz people wanted to see him.

[DeMaurice Smith]

None. To an NFL scout, NFL coach, you know, quarterback, quarterback coach. Man, they. They don't care about likes, man. They care about whether you can deliver the ball in a. In a three by three box with you running right, throwing. Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And.

[DeMaurice Smith]

And whether or not you can throw that ball on a. On a line for 30 yards. That's what they care about. That's all they care about. My point is, coming out of college, when you take all of the predictors about Chadur, did all of those predictive qualities point to him going higher than when he came out? Yes. And again, I don't know. But I do know one thing. There is not an NFL owner that liked the way in which he carried himself in college. That is not. That is not their vibe. Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what's so interesting about this conversation? And I feel like. And I'm just going back to this because I feel like if Colin Kaepernick hadn't settled and went through with the collusion and y' all were able to get these emails and everything else and prove who was doing what, owners would never be able to collude against the player like they did Shadora ever again.

[DeMaurice Smith]

It would have set a new precedent. Or they would never be able to collude against players like we found out in the Most recent lawsuit? No, this was. I filed a lawsuit against the National Football League that they were colluding against players getting free agent contracts.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wow.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I filed that in 2022 or 23. I was gone by the time the arbitrator ruled on the case. And not to throw any shade on my successor, but it's easy. Well, facts, man, facts hurt. And so for whatever reason, it's still mind boggling to me. My successor, who's gone now, decided that they would enter into a secret agreement with the league and not tell the players about the result of the lawsuit. And for whatever reason, my successor told the players that the players lost the collusion lawsuit that I filed, when in reality, the arbitrator found that the management council that runs the National Football League colluded and told teams not to urge teams not to give guaranteed contracts to players. Now, that's something that I would have told the players because first of all, they're entitled to no. And second, as soon as you, as soon as I would have found out that the owners who run the league, you know, Kraft, Jones, Mara Rooney, all of those guys are on their executive committee, once I would have found out that those people told the teams to not do guaranteed contracts, I sue on behalf of every player going back to 2015.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wow.

[DeMaurice Smith]

That's what I would have done. Because look, you lose 100% of the fights. You never fight.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So when you find out the owners are colluding, then what, what, what happens?

[DeMaurice Smith]

I don't. Well, if in this case the consequences for them, rather for the, for the owners, it could be, could be cataclysmic. I mean, think about it. If, if there were a player who. I'm just going to try to make the math easy. Let's just do Lamar. You know, if, if Lamar or Russell Wilson or any of these guys, the young man in San Diego, Herbert. I'm sorry, the Chargers. Herbert. Let's just say that he wants a fully guaranteed contract. And just to make the math easy, he wants a fully guaranteed contract at 300 million and the owner only gives him a contract of 150 million guaranteed. Theoretically, your damages are between 150 million and 300 million that he didn't get times every player that didn't get a fully guaranteed contract. So, you know, historically, if you think about one of the reasons the Major League Baseball union became so powerful, yes, they went through a strike in 1994, but what really broke the owners in the 80s and the 90s, the baseball owners, they lost collusion cases, lost him. And it's billions.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So Cabinet could have started pressing it anyway.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Read the book. He wants me to. Like. I'm just trying to make it simple for people. I'm not trying to. I don't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

This ain't even about him. This is about how that precedent could have been started to take these owners out.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Because you wrote it's about the strategy of power.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes. Because you write in the book, owners aren't stupid. Morons on occasion, but not stupid. They realized long ago that a single massive army is. Is more powerful than 32 regional ones, especially while fending off an attack. And it made me think about it, because you can have all the money in the world, but if they're unity and group operation 100%, that keeps them in power.

[DeMaurice Smith]

100%, man. You want to be the next executive director of the nflpa?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I guess I had to do a pitch.

[DJ Envy]

You can't give it too much.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Pick up the turf wars.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Thank you, guys. Appreciate it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You need to do Bill Simmons podcast, man.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I would love to.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I would love to. I would love to.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think y' all would have a great combo.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I would love to.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Turf Wars. DeMarcus Smith.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Thank you for having me, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

D. Demaris.

[DeMaurice Smith]

D. D. How do you pronounce it? Just so. Damaris. Damaris. Yeah. My mom. My mom wanted to call me La Canard, or my dad did, but thank God. Thank God my mother stepped in.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

My name is Lenard. That's close.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Yeah, but canard. Lock. Canard is the duck French. Yeah. That would have been a little bit rough.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Why would you look like a duck when you was born or something?

[DeMaurice Smith]

Damn, we going to end on. That's crazy, man. It went from. We were on such a high. Said, did you look like a gu when you was born? No, no, no. You know what? He's mad. He's mad about the cowboys thing. Yeah, It's a little salty. And what. So what was. She was going to name you? Lock Canard. She was. My dad wanted to name me Lock. Canard.

[Hunter]

La Canard.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Thankfully, my mother was like, no.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Lenard means clown, so. Yeah. Wow. Real crazy.

[DJ Envy]

We appreciate you.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Thank you, guys. What Just means what?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Trans lover.

[DeMaurice Smith]

I sure. This just thing went d. We out of here. This thing went off the rails. Pause. Pause. Thank you, brother.

[DJ Envy]

It's the Breakfast Club of morning.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Every day I wake up.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You finish or y' all done?

[Hunter]

I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast network. Join me every weekday as I share bites and stories of missing and murdered black women and girls in America. Stories like Erica Hunt, a young mother vanished without a trace after a family gathering on 4th of July weekend 2016. No goodbyes, no clues, just gone. Listen to Hunting for Answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[DeMaurice Smith]

The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast, season four is here and we're locked in. That means more juicy cheesement, terrible love advice, evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh, well, this season we're leveling up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Each episode will feature a special bestie.

[DJ Envy]

And you're not gonna wanna miss it. My name is Curly.

[Hunter]

And I'm Maya.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Get in here. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael F. Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this.

[DJ Envy]

Season, Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Whether you're a rookie manager, manager, or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight.

[DJ Envy]

To help you crush your opponents.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hunter]

Hi, I'm Jenica Lopez, and in the new season of the Over Comfort Podcast, I'm even more honest, more vulnerable, and more real than ever.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time?

[Hunter]

Join me for conversations about healing and.

[DeMaurice Smith]

Growth, all from one of my favorite spaces, the kitchen. Listen to the new season of the.

[Hunter]

Overcomer podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an iHeart podcast.