The Breakfast Club – DeMaurice Smith on "Turf Wars," NFL Power Dynamics, Kaepernick, Shedeur Sanders & More

Podcast: The Breakfast Club (iHeartPodcasts)
Aired: September 5, 2025
Guests: DeMaurice Smith (former Executive Director, NFLPA)
Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God, Lola Rose

Episode Overview

In this insightful, unfiltered interview, DeMaurice Smith—former head of the NFL Players Association—joins The Breakfast Club to discuss his new book "Turf Wars: The Fight for the Soul of America's Game." Smith pulls back the curtain on the business and political machinations of the NFL, his years sparring with league owners, union struggles for control and player rights, and high-profile moments like the Colin Kaepernick controversy and Shedeur Sanders’s NFL draft treatment. The episode is a masterclass on how power—more than just money—defines who calls the shots in American pro football, and, according to Smith, echoes broader trends in American society.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

DeMaurice Smith's Role & Philosophy as NFLPA Executive Director

• Union Leadership and Challenges ([02:45]–[04:33])

  • Smith describes being head of the NFLPA as "going to war with 31 billionaires" for player rights, pay, and healthcare.
  • Emphasizes many players’ naivete upon entering the league: “They know virtually nothing about the ruthlessness and the cutthroat nature of the business.” ([03:16])
  • Smith’s credo: “Ten toes to the line every day going up against the guys who… sit in the sky suites and want our dudes to work… and just tell the guys the truth.” ([03:40])
  • “You’re not in the will”—Smith’s hard-hitting message to rookies who believe the "NFL family" rhetoric. ([04:09])

• Owners’ Control Over the NFL and Players ([04:44]–[07:37])

  • The league’s main obsession is control, not money alone: “They want to control everything.” ([04:46])
  • Explains how, before 2011, owners could unilaterally add as many games as they wanted without increasing player compensation.
  • The 2011 CBA win: “We wrestled back that unilateral control and got the ability to govern our work.” ([06:29])
  • On “Turf Wars”: “I wanted to write ‘Turf Wars’ because it’s about power... not a football book, but about power.” ([07:08])

NFL’s Structure: A "Socialist" System Favoring Owners

• NFL as the "Most Unregulated, Socialistic Business in America" ([07:37]–[11:29])
  • “The NFL privatizes their wealth and socializes their cost.” ([08:00])
  • “There are no 10Ks, no annual reports, no SEC control... Up to a few years ago, the office was a 501c6 nonprofit.” ([08:24])
  • Mergers, special Congressional treatment, and centralized TV rights consolidate owner control.
  • Teams are LLCs/LLPs: “They loan money to each other, they borrow from each other... at the end of the year, [they pay] damn near nothing” in taxes. ([10:58])
  • No audited financials exist: “They do not create audited financial statements because they don't want anyone to know.” ([11:08])

Salary Cap, Player Ownership, and Team Power

• Why Players Can't Get Ownership Stakes ([12:02]–[15:14])
  • “No team wants to give a player a share of the team because no team wants to give up that control.” ([12:13])
  • Salary cap rules prohibit ownership stakes; all owners would have to agree.
  • Compares with Green Bay Packers’ unique structure, which is a legacy of small-market survival: “Pure greed and pure control” means no team has emulated it since. ([16:36])

NFL, Politics, and American Power

• NFL as a Reflection of America ([16:58]–[19:09])
  • “The way that the NFL is run is the way that our country is run.”
  • On political power: “It’s about control and power… if you’re either unwilling or unable to go ten toes to the line to confront power… you’re just gonna get your ass beat.” ([17:10])
  • Critiques modern Democrats’ approach to power: “They are not to be negotiated with… they’re not going to do it.” ([19:09])
  • Analogy: Democrats (players/NFLPA) vs. Republicans (owners): “They [owners/Republicans] shot over everybody 100%.” ([20:11])

Relationship with NFL Leadership

• On Roger Goodell and League Office ([21:58]–[22:56])
  • “Pure ass adversary,” Smith says of Commissioner Goodell.
  • Dismantles the “commissioner as a neutral” myth: “No, Roger gets paid $63 million a year… to represent the interest of the owners and a plane for life.” ([22:03], [22:30])

Union Strategy and High-Profile NFL Controversies

The Kaepernick Saga

• Smith’s Response and View on Kaepernick ([24:09]–[32:52])

  • “I wasn't hands off on that one...The first person to do an interview after Colin knelt was me, because I knew exactly how the league was going to turn that story.” ([24:17])
  • “The league turned every gun that they had on Colin Kaepernick...” ([41:13])
  • Kaepernick as "the general": “There isn’t a warrior campaign... that doesn’t try to kill the lead general… The league took the opportunity to turn its guns fully on Kaepernick.” ([33:02])
  • Smith believes Kaepernick was "100%" blackballed and was “one of the top 10 quarterbacks in the league” at the time. ([29:51])
  • The controversial Atlanta workout: “That surprised me. It disappointed me.” ([30:53])
  • “You lose 100% of the fights you don’t fight.” ([31:44])
  • Trump’s comments and players’ solidarity: “I am sure he did not understand he called every NFL player’s mother a bitch… that was the weekend you saw every player kneel.” ([35:20])

• Collusion suit and Settlement ([37:00]–[39:42])

  • Smith says the NFLPA was not informed of the Kaepernick settlement: “I woke up and found out about the settlement from, I think, ESPN.” ([40:03])
  • Regrets the lost opportunity to use discovery to expose collusion: “We were more interested in the facts of who made the decision to blackball a quarterback…” ([38:44])
  • On settlements: “There’s nothing to settle for the union.” ([39:19])

Shedeur Sanders & Racial Dynamics of the NFL Draft

• Shedeur Sanders’ Draft Slide ([42:01]–[45:42])
  • Smith finds it “inexplicable” how Sanders dropped so far in the draft despite consensus high ratings: “There is not an NFL owner that liked the way in which he carried himself in college. That is not their vibe.” ([46:00])
  • “I look at the arm strength and the size of Chador [Shedeur] and what he was able to demonstrate in college… he should be able to do in the NFL.” ([44:38])
  • Suggests race, image, and control of outspoken Black players might motivate owner decisions.

Collusion Beyond Kaepernick: Guaranteed Contracts

• NFL Collusion, Guaranteed Contracts, and the Lawsuit ([46:22]–[49:56])
  • Smith confirms (“the arbitrator found... the management council... urged teams not to give guaranteed contracts to players" ([47:32]).
  • Criticizes his successor for entering a secret agreement: “My successor... told the players that the players lost the collusion lawsuit... when in reality... owners told... not to do guaranteed contracts.”
  • On the magnitude: “If you think about... why the MLB union became so powerful… what really broke the owners… was they lost collusion cases. And it’s billions.” ([49:09])
  • Reiterates: “You lose 100% of the fights you never fight.” ([48:31])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You are not in the family because you are not in the will.” – DeMaurice Smith, tough love for rookies ([04:09])
• “The NFL privatizes their wealth and socializes their cost.” – Smith critiquing the NFL business model ([08:00])
• “No team wants to give up that control.” – On why players can’t get ownership ([12:13])
• “The way that the NFL is run is the way that our country is run.” – Smith on NFL as a microcosm ([16:58])
• “Pure ass adversary.” – On his view of Roger Goodell ([22:03])
• “I mean, the owners are serial killers. Let’s not… Again, they are absolute killers.” – On NFL owners ([34:45])
• “There is not an NFL owner that liked the way in which [Shedeur Sanders] carried himself in college. That is not their vibe.” ([46:00])
• “You have a misunderstanding of power and a misunderstanding that these people are out to blow us out.” ([21:55])
• “You lose 100% of the fights you don’t fight.” – Repeated theme of Smith’s union strategy ([31:44], [48:31])
• “Owners aren’t stupid—morons on occasion, but not stupid. They realized long ago that a single massive army is more powerful than 32 regional ones.” – Smith, reading from "Turf Wars" ([50:12])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:45] – Smith describes the real job of the NFLPA head
• [04:09] – “You’re not in the will” and rookie misconceptions
• [07:37] – “The NFL does not have a soul. The players have a soul.”
• [08:00] – NFL as a socialistic, unregulated monopoly
• [12:13] – Why player team ownership is virtually impossible
• [16:58] – NFL as a reflection of American power dynamics
• [21:58] – "Pure ass adversary” on Roger Goodell
• [24:17] – Smith’s account of his response to the Kaepernick protests
• [29:51] – “100%” certainty Kaepernick was blackballed
• [35:20] – Trump’s inflammatory comments and player backlash
• [38:44] – Frustrations over Kaepernick collusion settlement
• [42:01] – Shedeur Sanders and “inexplicable” NFL draft drop
• [47:32] – Confirmation of owners colluding to block guaranteed contracts

Tone, Format, and Final Thoughts

• The conversation is candid, witty, blunt, and often passionate; Smith doesn’t shy away from strong language or hard truths.
• The hosts push Smith to go beyond cliches and reveal the real politics of the NFL, player activism, and union infighting.
• Smith's central thesis: The NFL is a masterclass in owner control and political power, not unlike broader patterns in American society—with players needing real solidarity and a “war” mentality just to get a fair shake.

Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in sports, labor, politics, or how power really operates behind the scenes. DeMaurice Smith offers an uncompromising look at who runs the NFL, why the business of football is all about control, and how landmark controversies—from extra games to Kaepernick to the stalling of guaranteed contracts—are less about sport than about the fight for power.