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The Breakfast Club
INTERVIEW: Eric Swalwell On Switching Parties, Biden's Decline, The Future Of The Party + More
00:45:04
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- [00:00]
Eric Swalwell
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
DJ Envy
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- [00:37]
Just Hilarious
Watching BMF on Stars, you're seriously missing out from executive producer Curtis 50 Cent Jackson. The new season is coming and Meech and Terry are leveling up. They're expanding their empire, launching a music label, and even hitting the 1995 Source Awards. Oh, and did I mention Lamar is back. BMF is where drama, hustle and hip hop collide. The drama top tier, the stakes higher than ever. This is the season everyone's going to be talking about. Don't miss the season premiere June 6th only on Starz and the Starz app.
- [01:15]
Carlos Miller
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- [02:18]
Eric Swalwell
Panoramic moonroof, ambient lighting, bows and massaging leather.
- [02:21]
Just Hilarious
Appointed seats are optional features.
- [02:23]
DJ Envy
Wake that ass up early in the morning.
- [02:25]
Charlemagne tha God
The Breakfast Club Morning everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne, the guy we Are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building.
- [02:34]
DJ Envy
Yes, indeed.
- [02:35]
Charlemagne tha God
Congressman Eric Swalwell. Welcome.
- [02:36]
Eric Swalwell
Hey, thanks for having me on.
- [02:37]
Charlemagne tha God
How you feeling today?
- [02:38]
Eric Swalwell
I'm good. I'm good.
- [02:40]
DJ Envy
You. You got such an interesting story because you're a Democrat.
- [02:42]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah.
- [02:43]
DJ Envy
Out of California.
- [02:44]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah.
- [02:44]
DJ Envy
But you were raised. Your parents were Republican.
- [02:46]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah.
- [02:47]
DJ Envy
So you were a Republican at one point. So what made you, you know, switch sides, so to speak?
- [02:51]
Eric Swalwell
They would tell you, they would blame college. I was the first to go to college. And so they're like, oh, he got brainwashed by those college liberal professors. But, no, the truth is, my. My dad was a cop. My mom worked a number of odd jobs, made wedding cakes, did ceramics, ran, like, a very large, probably unlicensed daycare facility with me and my little brothers. And I was the first one to be able to kind of get out. And when I left, the town I grew up in was called Dublin, and everyone around us called it scrubland. I started to realize that, and I think very much resented that. It felt like there were, like, two paths of opportunity in America, like, certainly in my community, which was like, if your parents knew someone or they had, like, means or they had connections, like, you could go and try and be anything, and if they didn't, then you had to, like, work your ass off probably twice as hard as anyone else. And so I started looking at, like, different political parties, and I thought, well, Democrats believe in kind of a free market approach, which is, like, when we're at our best. I think that if you work hard, no matter who you are, you should do better and be and dream bigger. And Republicans, I saw, was like a free for all approach. The truth is, I went to college on a soccer scholarship, so I never really thought beyond the next game. It was only when I got injured that I had a high school mentor, a teacher. He said, why don't you go to D.C. rehab, the injury intern for your member of Congress, and see if you liked it? And I happened to be there summer of 2001. I loved it. And I was working for a very moderate Democratic member of Congress. Her name was Ellen Tosher, and saw that place as a center of gravity, a place that could get things done. And I knew I didn't, especially after September 11th. Being there on September 11th, that I didn't want to go back to sports anymore. It's kind of seemed trivial compared to, like, what was going on in the world. But, yeah, my parents are still Republicans today. I have three little brothers. They don't talk about it that much, but I'm pretty sure I know who they voted for. And I married a girl from Southern Indiana who grew up in the same town as the Pences. Her mom was the Pence family dentist until she retired last year. So I have to go on Fox News if any anyone in my family is going to see me on tv.
- [05:06]
DJ Envy
Was it a particular moment or a situation that made you be like, I don't, I don't lean towards conservative anymore.
- [05:13]
Eric Swalwell
It was in the Bush presidency, you know, seeing a lot of people that I grew up with go off, you know, to Iraq and feeling like it was bullshit, like what they were being told, and that it was really more just a power grab and an oil grab and it wasn't about the reasons that they were being told. I think that was kind of that completed for me the transformation, but it was really more about opportunity because as I said, like, I grew up in a very, like, working class home and the towns that were around us were very wealthy. And so because I played competitive soccer, I got to see. And our town didn't have a competitive soccer team, so I played in like the wealthier towns teams. And I got to see, like, what the richer kids thought of the poorer kids by playing on their teams. And honestly, it was a little bit of just like resenting that they were able to take shortcuts and people who worked hard, like, they just, they had to do it twice as hard. And I thought, well, one party actually thinks if we all have about the same opportunity, and then you're defined by how hard you work, not by who you know. And I thought the Democratic Party embodied that more than the Republican Party.
- [06:27]
DJ Envy
You think we'll ever get back to centrist politics ever again?
- [06:31]
Eric Swalwell
I hope so. I mean, I was also, you know, I came of age when Bill Clinton was president and I thought, you know, he was very good at trying to find, like, what's possible. And I see myself as wanting to do this job, you know, to solve problems and be in the solutions business. And today it feels very like just zero sum. Like whoever wins, the other side says that this is it. And that actually goes back. You know, you had the search and destroy under Bill Clinton when they wanted to do anything over a sex scandal to destroy the guy. And then George Bush comes in. And I would say Democrats are probably guilty of saying, like, this is, you know, the most existential threat to our country. You know, we're going to lose our country if George Bush is reelected. And then Obama comes in and you get like this birtherism Bullshit. And then when the real threat came in, Donald Trump, I think most Americans were like, okay, that's just what you.
- [07:22]
DJ Envy
Guys say every time.
- [07:23]
Eric Swalwell
That's just what you say. So when the real threat was there, we probably didn't appreciate it.
- [07:28]
Charlemagne tha God
I want to ask, what do you think the biggest thing the Democrats got wrong in the last election?
- [07:32]
Eric Swalwell
Immigration and public safety.
- [07:35]
Charlemagne tha God
Break it down.
- [07:36]
Eric Swalwell
So 40% of my constituents were born outside the United States. That's probably one of the largest groups of immigrant communities you'll find in America. And we also happen to be today because we've embraced immigration, one of the wealthiest districts now in America. So there's a straight line between having people who left everything, showed resilience, created something, and like the wealth they can create in their community. Right. So when you have, like, legal immigration channels, there's no end. But the American people, they're not going to let you solve the workforce crisis in agriculture, in hospitality and restaurants, food and beverage, they're not going to let you attack that until they see security at the border and the perception that the border was out of control and the reality that the border was out of control was a problem. So I think if we had just doubled down and said, yeah, we want border security. We want. If people are going to make asylum claims, we're going to put resources there to adjudicate those claims as quickly as possible. But if it's seen that all you have to do is just come to the United States or like cross an insecure border and then you can have access to resources, people aren't going to want to hear your plan to have a million people come here and work on the jobs that really need to be filled. And so I think we just weren't seen strong enough on that issue. And then on law and Order, I think we rightfully fought for criminal justice reform. Rightfully. But we were too much identified as like a defund the police party. And I think you can have both.
- [09:13]
Charlemagne tha God
Because I was gonna let you finish, but I want to ask you something about that.
- [09:16]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah. People want. People want safety in their community. They also don't want, like the wrong person going to jail or people going to jail for petty shit. But they want to feel safe in the community. And we weren't perceived as a party that was going to keep you safe.
- [09:29]
Charlemagne tha God
I was going to ask you. So my father's a retired police officer as well. One of my dad's biggest things and even some of the police officers that I speak with is that when people, criminals get arrested it feels like they are cared for more than the victim. A lot of times they go in, there's no bail, they come right back out, they do the crime over and over again. There's no harsh anything when it comes to it. They don't get arrested. If they do jail time, it's usually community services have to spend a weekend in jail. And it feels like there's career criminals doing the same thing over and over again. And a lot of people in the public feel like it's not safe for them. What are your thoughts on that?
- [10:03]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah, I get that perception. And I was a prosecutor in Oakland for seven years, and it was very frustrating that many times it felt like the victims had none of the rights and the bad guys had all of the rights. And so for me, it's really focus on, like, serious, violent, sexual. Those three. If you, like, throw the book at those three, right, and throw the resources at those three, and then you show compassion and redemption for non serious, non sexual, nonviolent, and believe that those folks, you know, have a pathway into our community, I think you can get it right. But right now, I'll give you an example. In California, so we had a prosecutor in my county who would not charge gun crime. So if someone committed like a homicide or an attempted homicide, she would not charge the gun crime. That could add like 25 years to life and put away the worst in the community. And Oakland's crime rate soared. And so I led a recall effort against her because people just weren't feeling safe. She also refused to prosecute any misdemeanors at all. And we recalled her with 62% in Oakland and Berkeley. And so that, I think, shows that even liberal communities want public safety. They want compassion. They don't believe that people are irredeemable. But at the end of the day, if people don't feel safe, no one's going to invest in your community. You're not going to have great schools and your home values. If you're able to, you know, buy a house is just going to tank. And so you have to focus on public safety.
- [11:40]
DJ Envy
You mentioned two things. You mentioned border and you mentioned law and order, which I agree with, because, you know, I always say, I don't care what your race is, what your sexuality is, what your gender is. If you're an American, you want two things. You want to have some money in your pocket and you want to feel safe. I think what people missed about the border issue was it wasn't just a matter of security security. It was a Matter of people felt like these individuals were coming into America and getting more resources than people who had been here for years. And I think one of the most brilliant things that Republicans did was start shipping those migrants to the Chicago's and to the New York cities and to the Martha's Vineyards. Because then it became a problem for those major cities because it's easy to say, hey, we're sanctuary cities if you're all the way up here. So if you're really sanctuary cities, then take care of them. And that's when people in those communities started complaining about, oh, how are they coming here and they're getting, you know, room and board. How are they getting money in their pocket? But we've been here suffering all of those years. So my question is, why have Democrats lost the economy war? Because since World War II, whenever there's a Democrat in the White House, the economy does better. Why aren't y' all able to message that?
- [12:45]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah. And to your point, if you're a family in Long island and you see folks staying at hotels that you would not be able to afford to put your family. And yeah, I can see why that, you know, creates resentment. It was a cheap shot what those governors did, but I mean, they, they won the messaging war on that. And we're still on defense. Look, on the economy, what where we're at right now is we're in this Trump slump where 401ks have become 201 case. The Trump tariffs are just jacking up the cost of everything at Home Depot, Walmart, Target. And so people are starting to pay, but I think the way we win.
- [13:24]
DJ Envy
But things weren't much better on the Biden either under Biden, you know, and it was insulting for people to scream Bidenomics and talk about how good the economy is doing and the GDP is up and the stock market is up. The people I'm talking about ain't got no stocks.
- [13:37]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah.
- [13:37]
DJ Envy
You know.
- [13:38]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah.
- [13:38]
DJ Envy
So how can you, how can you lie to people about what they're actually putting in their pocket?
- [13:41]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah. So to me, it should be, if you're willing to bet on yourself and work hard, you should have a country that's going to bet on you. Right. And so homeownership should be within reach for anyone who works full time. And so I have legislation that gives $25,000 down payment to any teacher, for example, who's going to teach within their community. And I would bump it up for the higher cost areas. Also, I think for small businesses, regulations do get in the way. You Know, small, small and medium sized businesses are competing against giants. And the giants have like in house legal teams that can cut through all the regulations. They can hire a lobbyist to find a workaround. And small and medium sized businesses see these regulations as some of the biggest hurdles. And so I would look at, for example, for a small business, if you start a small business in a community, I would let you defer your taxes for the first three years. You got to pay them. But once you hit three years, which is about how long it takes to, you know, get not post revenue, but post profit, then you can start paying your taxes. But I would do more to give people incentives to invest early on and allow them to ride out those early years so that we are an entrepreneur, entrepreneurial society. And I think that's where Democrats are at our best is when we bet on people who are willing to bet on themselves.
- [15:06]
DJ Envy
I think Democrats miss people, though, because when you talk about homeownership.
- [15:10]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah.
- [15:10]
DJ Envy
And small businesses, that's literally like a middle class thing. Like, like, you know, you know how hard it is to be able to afford a home. Like some people I'm talking about are just folks who want to find an apartment that's not $3,000 a month. You know, they just want to have a couple of meals on the, on the table, you know, throughout the day for their kids. Like this, that, like, we never speak to that. It feels like we always talk to the middle class.
- [15:34]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah.
- [15:35]
DJ Envy
And above that, but we never talk to who's Lord.
- [15:37]
Eric Swalwell
But I want us to be aspirational. And I think a weakness of the Democratic Party is my parents would tell you when people told them that as Republicans, they were voting against their interests because we lived in 13 different houses. I went to 11 different schools before I graduated high school. And people would say, well, you're Republican and you're voting for Republicans. The Democrats are the ones that are gonna protect people in your economic class. And my parents, my mom would say, my interest is not being poor. And so she saw the Republican Party as talking to her as we are aspirational for you. And I think Democrats at our best. Yes, I want us to have more inventory in housing so that the cost of housing comes down. And in California, frankly, a lot of the laws in California get in the way of, of builders and developers bringing more inventory, you know, on stock, so that you can have more affordable housing. Yes, I want that for people. Just basic housing. Yes, that, that is a need. But I want people to aspire for owner, for ownership, because I Think when you own like a piece of America, like that fulfills the American promise that if you work hard, like, you can own something. And for most Americans, the greatest source of wealth is their home. But more and more Americans, especially my generation, homeownership is out of reach. Believe it or not, I'm still paying off student loan debt. I've got about $80,000 in student loan debt today. And many people like me who chase that dream of being the first to go to college, they're just in the quicksand of student loan debt. And they think that the American promise is bullshit because they don't own a piece of it. So I want us to be more aspirational, put more housing in America so that you increase the inventory and you increase the ability of people to, you know, as I said, to have skin in the ownership game.
- [17:20]
DJ Envy
But how do we get those poor and disenfranchised people to even get to a mindset of aspirational? Because right now they're just trying to survive.
- [17:27]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah. It starts in school and it's going to get worse with AI. So what we're seeing right now with AI is that you're going to have people who learn the skills of AI and they will do better for themselves because they know it. And then you're going to have a whole generation of people who never even had it in their classroom.
- [17:44]
Charlemagne tha God
But I think what you said as well is if you can give people that down payment. Right. Help them with their first down payment. Also what they do with teachers and police officers in certain areas, help them with their taxes if they live in certain areas. If you do that, it gives people three to five years to at least get on their feet and to start off. And that gives them the foundation to at least help them out if people are able to do it. But if you help them out with their first down payment and their taxes are still high and their state taxes are still high, and then egg prices are through the roof and orange juice is through the roof, it's going to be. They're going to lose their home.
- [18:15]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah. And when, when you're taxing wages and the wealth, you know, their income is not in, you know, wage and salary and their taxes are much lower because it's, it's in, you know, either stocks or funds.
- [18:29]
Charlemagne tha God
They know how to play the game.
- [18:29]
Eric Swalwell
Investments. Yeah. And so you have unfairly set up the equation where wage workers are actually proportionally pay more.
- [18:36]
Charlemagne tha God
Correct.
- [18:37]
Eric Swalwell
Of what they make. And that's wrong. And I would, I would flip that.
- [18:40]
Charlemagne tha God
I Want to ask you, is the Republican Party a bigger threat to democracy than foreign adversaries right now?
- [18:47]
Eric Swalwell
Yes. Why do you say that? The accomplices in the Republican Party to Donald Trump, because they are so afraid of this guy, and it is like a cult. They are terrified. Well, one they believe. Many of them see in him someone who's willing to do what they've always wanted to do but were never able to do. And then the others who could pump the brakes and stop it. And the margins are close enough in Congress that it just takes a few to stop it. Those who know better are terrified. So I. I hear this in the. So there's a couple of places I go where I get the real. From these guys, where I hear, like, what is really going on. It's the House gym. So there's this members gym where only members can work out. The fitness staff.
- [19:30]
Charlemagne tha God
They don't look like they're in shape at all, but go ahead.
- [19:32]
Eric Swalwell
That's right. They should probably spend more time there just talking. But only members are allowed, so you can have. There's no cameras, you know, no phones allowed. Thank you. Anthony Weiner. Those photos came from the members. And that's where I hear, like, what's really going on, you know, at, like, the workout stations or being on the treadmill next to someone's elliptical. And I used to think it was that they were afraid of losing their jobs. And it's not that they're afraid of losing their jobs. They're afraid of their personal security. And one member recently told me, he said, look, my wife told me, like, don't. The phrase was don't be the tallest poppy in the field. Like, if you speak out, life's gonna be hell for your kids. I'm. I'm not gonna enjoy going to church. We're not gonna be welcome at the country club. We're gonna get all these death threats. So they look at, like, Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney, and they're like, that is hell. Like, why would I want that?
- [20:27]
Charlemagne tha God
Sad but true.
- [20:29]
Eric Swalwell
To me, it's like, find another job, right? Like, there's a lot of other jobs. I hope I work with people who are otherwise employable. Like, this isn't the only job you could get if you're in Congress. But for a lot of them, it's just personal security because it's just one, like, Trump or Musk tweet. And now, because I live it every day now your life's turned upside down, and you have the death threats, and you probably don't have the resources to protect yourself. And so that's a big chunk of it. Then for the others, who I call accomplices, you've got this professional wrestling environment. So I will bump into people in the gym, give you an example. After, during the second impeachment, I was one of the prosecutors for Donald Trump. And on a break from that trial, I was in the restroom right off the Senate floor, and Ted Cruz is at the sink next to me. And as we're both washing our hands, he puts his fist out and he goes, hey, we never met. I'm Ted. I'm like, what the fuck? And I'm like, hey, Ted. And the night before, he was on Fox News just roasting me by name. And he could tell I was confused. And he goes, I want you to know you're doing a really good job out there. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And then it occurred to me, oh, like we're in the bathroom, there's no camera. We're not in a hearing. He's not on Fox News. It's just professional wrestling. Like when we're in the hearing room or on the floor, he's gonna hit me over the head with a steel chair because that's what he thinks the fans want. I call the fans constituents. He thinks of these folks as fans, but when no one's around, it's just two guys, bro, and out. Because to him it's just entertainment. And so there's so many of my colleagues who I don't even know what the hell they believe because they act one way on camera and then a completely different way when the camera's off. And the way that they're acting on camera is to completely enable and be accomplices to Donald Trump.
- [22:31]
DJ Envy
But isn't that all the auto.
- [22:35]
Eric Swalwell
I hope not.
- [22:35]
DJ Envy
I just finished reading the Original Sin. So when I hear you talk, I'm like, well, what was the Democrats excuse when they chose to be accomplices in the COVID up of Biden's physical and mental decline? It's the same thing. Y' all did the same. Y' all got on television and pretended to act like everything was fine, knowing behind the scenes he was not the one.
- [22:52]
Eric Swalwell
Well, I don't think many of us were behind the scenes, to be honest. I mean, I, I didn't spend much time with President Biden behind the scenes. I wasn't.
- [22:58]
DJ Envy
I didn't spend no time with him at all.
- [23:00]
Eric Swalwell
But you saw immediately. You had your two eyes. I got it, I got it. But the difference I would argue, is that what Donald Trump is doing right now to our democracy, completely taking a wrecking ball to the rule of law.
- [23:21]
DJ Envy
But he's doing it because Democrats saw what was happening with President Biden, knew that he should have been a transitional president, and didn't push for him to say, hey, Mr. Biden, good job, you won 2020, but we need something to do for 2024.
- [23:35]
Eric Swalwell
I don't know if you remember, I was the pass the torch guy. Like, I was in the first presidential debate. My campaign lasted probably as long as this interview. But during the debate, I said pass the torch for that reason. I wanted a generational change then. And, yes, would it have been better if he had done that once he had all of those successes, you know, going into the midterms? Absolutely. And I do think going forward, we would be best served if the DNC put in place a rule that said we will not nominate a president who is collecting Social Security. So if you're old enough to collect Social Security, you probably should not be president. I think we have to be the party of the future going forward. So make the cutoff 67.
- [24:22]
DJ Envy
Is it age or cognitive decline, though? Because, I mean, Joe, I mean, it's perception, though.
- [24:27]
Eric Swalwell
It's perception.
- [24:27]
DJ Envy
Donald Trump's only a few years, few years younger than Biden or somebody like Bernie right now, and he's crazy.
- [24:32]
Eric Swalwell
He's fucking crazy. Like, listen to the guy, he spoke to the West Point cadets the other day, and he was talking about trophy wives, right? And everyone there is like, wait, we. This is the guy that's sending us off, you know, into battle? No, he's, he's losing it, too.
- [24:46]
DJ Envy
What about Bernie Sanders?
- [24:48]
Eric Swalwell
I think we need to pass the torch. Like, we, we have plenty of, you know, great leaders. We have a deep bench that could lead us, you know, that are not in their 80s. And so if we want to be the party of the future, if we want to have ideas of the future, if we want to take on A.I. right, if we want to understand these issues that our kids are going to have to inherit, I think you need to look like the future. So I, I believe what I.
- [25:15]
DJ Envy
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- [25:47]
Charlemagne tha God
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- [26:42]
Just Hilarious
Panoramic moonroof, ambient lighting, bows and massaging leather. Appointed seats are optional features.
- [26:47]
Carlos Miller
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- [27:43]
Andrea Gunning
Of the podcast Betrayal Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all his wife, Caroline.
- [27:52]
Eric Swalwell
He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me.
- [27:58]
Andrea Gunning
Caroline's husband was Living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community.
- [28:06]
Eric Swalwell
She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing. No.
- [28:13]
Andrea Gunning
How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done?
- [28:16]
Eric Swalwell
You're unable to keep track of all your lies. And quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future.
- [28:24]
Andrea Gunning
This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception. Lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [28:41]
Eric Swalwell
Said back in 2019 at that debate and I believe it now, and I hope we get that message when we start to think about 2028. But we can't even have free and fair elections in 2028 if we don't win the midterms. If we lose the midterms, forget it. There will not be free and fair elections in this country.
- [28:59]
DJ Envy
I agree.
- [28:59]
Charlemagne tha God
I agree with you. I do have a question. You know, we look at Donald Trump and Donald Trump has been signing executive orders, pardoning his people. His core, to the people in the public. Looks like he looks out for his own. The Democrats don't look like they look out for their own. Talk about that a little bit because somebody who sees that says, well, why am I messing with Biden? Where Biden wouldn't pardon his best friend. He would pardon his son. Wouldn't pardon his best friend. With Donald Trump are pardoning anybody that rides for him.
- [29:25]
DJ Envy
He definitely pardoned a lot of his best friends. He wouldn't pardon Marilyn Movie, though.
- [29:28]
Eric Swalwell
I think the issue is Democrats are weak with power.
- [29:31]
Charlemagne tha God
Say it again, I ain't hear you.
- [29:32]
Eric Swalwell
Democrats are weak when we have power. So we had the White House, the House and the Senate and not a mom in America would say that her kid was safer at school, right? So I have three little kids, my two oldest, they do mass shooter drills. They're eight and they're six. And so they would look at Democrats and say, wait, we gave you that holy trinity, White House, Senate, House. And y' all couldn't pass background checks or an assault weapons ban and you let what, like the filibuster get in the way of it. So if Democrats and Republicans, by the way, they will lean in with thin power and pass unpopular positions. So if we were as strong with power to pass popular positions, imagine how people would perceive us. Almost 80% of gun owning Republicans believe in background checks and we couldn't even get that done. So I think the next president and the next Democratic majority has to flex. When we have power, I think we have to also go after. We have to have an anti corruption agenda as well. I think we have to clean up and clear out the Supreme Court, frankly, because I think Donald Trump is now just saying it out loud that he corruptly appointed judges to the Supreme Court. He's in this little fight with Leonard Leo, and he said, I was told these judges and these justices on the courts, you know, were going to go my way. And he's upset that some of them aren't. I mean, he's saying out loud that he has corrupted the court. So we need to put in place, I think, term limits on the court. I think we need to have a code of ethics for these justices. I don't think members of Congress should be trading stocks. I don't trade individual stocks, apparently. That's why I'm still in debt. But I do see the opportunity for us, you know, to win the midterms, win the presidency and flex with power and get rid of the filibuster and show people that when we have power, we know what to do with it.
- [31:24]
DJ Envy
They should have been got rid of the filibuster. I want to ask you this about Donald Trump. Why do a lot of Democrats still talk like Donald Trump is campaigning? Like, when I hear y' all speak, it's like everything is anti Trump. Anti Trump, anti Trump, which I understand, because, you know, he is doing a lot of things that I would consider corrupt and unconstitutional. But he's in the White House already. Like, you're not running against him anymore. You still talk like you're campaigning against him, like you're trying to convince America he's bad. He's bad, he's bad. He's in the White House. He's the president. There has to be another strategy.
- [31:55]
Eric Swalwell
Well, the strategy should be to tie him to the Republican accomplices because those are the folks who you can hold accountable in two years. Right? You're not going to be able to vote for Donald Trump next November, but you can vote for the Republicans that allowed these tariffs, you know, to happen. You can vote, you know, for the Republicans who have taken away, you know, your access to health care. You can vote for the Republicans who have enabled the doctors who do cancer research at the nih, you know, to be fired. By the way, there is a brain drain happening right now where European and Canadian leaders are calling our best cancer researchers, our best cybersecurity experts, our best engineers, and saying, I'll give you a visa. I'LL fund your research. Come here. And so we are losing the best. So we have to tie Trump's actions to those who are also complicit because you can actually hold them accountable and you can vote them out.
- [32:54]
DJ Envy
So what about when you see people like Elon Musk speaking out against the gop, you know, mega bill, saying that it's going to add money to the deficit? You know, even as.
- [33:03]
Eric Swalwell
I respect that. Yeah, I respect.
- [33:04]
DJ Envy
And I've been seeing a lot of people in the GOP do that. To me, that's something that I never even used to see Democrats do in regards to Biden. So to your point, what I think is going to happen is people are just going to lean back towards more just a traditional conservative because they still seem like they're being honest and the Democrats still feel like they full of.
- [33:25]
Eric Swalwell
We, we have that trust deficit because of what happened in the last election. And then that's why I think the best way to address it is to promise that you're going to look like the party of the future and say, you know what, like we're gonna nominate someone who looks like the future. I think that acknowledges the issue in the last election. Contrast yourself with who the current president is. And by the way, it's gonna be a shit show for them to sort out who their nominee is in 2028. Cuz you have the question of whether Trump would run again, whether it would.
- [33:52]
DJ Envy
Be a sign we shouldn't even be discussing it.
- [33:54]
Eric Swalwell
No, no. Because if we lose the midterms, by the way, it doesn't matter. So the midterms is my focus in tying Trump's actions to those who are voting on all of this in the midterms. That's the way to win. But our message has to be, as I said, aspirational, that if you bet on yourself, you will have a government that'll bet on you. That's how I'm approaching this. I'm doing town halls in Republican districts twice a month where they won't hold town halls. And I'm seeing not just the Democratic base show up, but Republicans, independents and a lot of veterans. A lot of service member hats at these town halls because no one has fired more veterans than, and no, no one's enabled it more than Republicans in Congress. And so we have a real opportunity in the midterms. We need just three seats and we can cut our time in hell in half by winning the midterms.
- [34:40]
DJ Envy
I was reading the Wall Street Journal yesterday and they asked a question about David Hogg we had David Hog a couple weeks ago and the question was, is David Hogg Democrats worst nightmare or their savior?
- [34:50]
Eric Swalwell
I'm on David's board and I was on his board when he founded it. I've known him since Parkland because that's the issue I care the most about. Look, David's not wrong that the question is not are you far left or center left. It's will you bring old tactics or new tactics?
- [35:06]
DJ Envy
I agree.
- [35:07]
Eric Swalwell
And if you're not up to bring new tactics to take on what's happening, then these times are revealing who should lead and who should leave.
- [35:17]
DJ Envy
I agree. So, I mean, I think that anybody who is not putting up the proper fight, they should be primaried. But I think it's going to take Democrats. When you talk about the future of the Democratic Party, the future of the Democratic Party is going to be, you know, it's going to take some of those people now that's the future to throw the old regime under the bus.
- [35:35]
Eric Swalwell
Well, and it's going to take like this Avengers like model of Jasmine Crockett, Maxwell Frost, Robert Garcia, people that you'd not seen before just step up. And then we're going to get to the end of this year and we're going to win in Virginia and New Jersey in those governor's races. It's going to give us momentum. And then the leader becomes, I think the, the leader is today. But the publicly perceived leader is Hakeem Jeffries. Right. Because he's got to make the case that we're winning the House.
- [36:04]
DJ Envy
He's terrible.
- [36:05]
Eric Swalwell
But that he's the leader of the party and he's got in the position only. Yeah, but he's, he's got, he's the. If we win, he's the speaker. Right. So he's got to make the case in the fall that this is the agenda, these are the seats win there. And now we have the majority in the House.
- [36:22]
DJ Envy
The reason I don't trust guys like Hakeem is because he's so willing to still bend a knee to the old regime. He's not going to ever speak out against Chuck Schumer. He's never going to do that.
- [36:32]
Eric Swalwell
But I can.
- [36:34]
DJ Envy
But you're not the leader. I want the leader. I want Hakeem Jeffries to speak out against Chuck Schumer. When Chuck Schumer says, hey, we got to support this bill that Donald Trump is doing, you gotta say, no, we gotta hold the line. You have to be willing to speak out against people in your own party. That's the only way to gain trust from people.
- [36:50]
Eric Swalwell
And you've seen, at least on the House side, that we've held the line. Right? Not a single one of us voted for reconciliation. No one voted to keep the Doge government open when that vote came in March. And as I said, I have seen colleagues who no one knew their name until a couple months ago emerge. And that's encouraging to me. It just shows that there is a deep bench. And that's why I think being the party of the future has to be our priority, because the past was rejected last November.
- [37:19]
DJ Envy
Why should we ever trust the Democratic Party after they lied to us so long about President Biden? And I'm big on this because I just read the original sentence. I'm just like, I don't, I don't see. I think that Democrats have tried every strategy except for two things, honesty and courage.
- [37:32]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah, well, there's a lot of people who are courageous right now in the Democratic Party. Our bread and butter issue, our dance with the one that brought you, is health care. People have always trusted us on health care. That's our issue. From President Johnson to President Obama to when Donald Trump tried to take it away, that's how he won the House in 2018. And now this reconciliation bill is going to take 14 million people off their health care. We're not only going to protect health care, because I think protecting health care is not enough. We need to invest in cures. And these motherfuckers are firing cancer doctors. So we have a real clean contrast. We're for cures, they're for cancer. Right? Like, so, like, that's why you should Trust us, because 40% of Americans are gonna get a phone call from a doctor to say, I'm sorry you have cancer. And so you're gonna. If it doesn't come to you, it's gonna come to someone, you know, and so you want the party to. That believes in your health care and that you have a right to fight it and not go broke. And I think we have a chance to do that.
- [38:33]
DJ Envy
Do you think? Well, I know Democrats do have a messaging problem, because it's almost like Democrats love facts and figures, but Republicans talk to people's gut, their emotion. When will y' all learn to hit back emotionally?
- [38:46]
Eric Swalwell
We think messaging is winning a Harvard Law School moot court competition. And I think messaging is winning a gut check at the bar or the bus stop. And so it means just speaking plainly. And when you see the other side elect a 34 count felon, you should probably see yourself as liberated to just say what you believe and not be so polished and scripted and try and project what you think a politician should sound like, because people can call bullshit and they're calling bullshit. And so I hope what you're seeing now is more and more of my colleagues liberated. Can it produce some cringe moments? Yes. But the other part of this is to always be on. Like, always be on. And I'll give you an example. If you look at the 20 the last election, many people would say the biggest mistake Kamala Harris made was when she went on the View and said that she wasn't doing any different than Joe Biden. I think the biggest mistake was that it would be, I think, four or five days from when she said that to when she did another interview. Donald Trump makes five mistakes an hour, but he's always on. And so it just washes it out. And so when you allow that amount of time to go by, you're going to be defined by the other side. And so I think the lesson is one, be yourself, but always be on. Go to as many places as possible. After the election, I saw that 68% of the people who voted identify in some form or another as Christian. So I told my staff, I said, put us on the top 20 Christian podcasts. So for the last four months, about once every other week, I'm going on a Christian podcast just to try and go to more spaces.
- [40:31]
Charlemagne tha God
You get it in places and most people don't.
- [40:32]
Eric Swalwell
I think more and more are, though.
- [40:34]
DJ Envy
That's hilarious. That's like going the opposite of the bros. He's like, y' all go to Andrew and Theo and Strogan. I'm going to the Christian.
- [40:42]
Eric Swalwell
But, like, I'm a Christian, and I don't want to be defined by what Republicans think of me. Like, I don't wear it on my sleeve in my politics like they do. But I also don't want 68% of the electorate to think that I don't respect or understand who they are. And so to me, be yourself, always be on, because if you're not always on, you going to get defined. And. And this happened to us in the last election on issues that we weren't talking about that much, but they would define and exaggerate. And then we found ourselves on defense because we were too scripted and we were too cautious.
- [41:14]
DJ Envy
But you also know, you know, Vice President Kamala Harris, the reason she did that on the View is because nobody wanted to piss Biden off. Biden wanted his legacy to be intact. You could read the Original Sin and see that he cares more about his legacy and his ego and how the Biden name is perceived than anything. So he put himself over the party and the future of America. So she didn't want to break away from that. I bet you she had staunch marching orders. Do not break away from Biden. Don't make his legacy look crazy.
- [41:45]
Eric Swalwell
And this is a leadership test, right? Like, you have to show, like, whether you're going to be your own person or not. And that's. That's what people were looking for.
- [41:54]
DJ Envy
You came up during Obama's rise, right?
- [41:57]
Eric Swalwell
I came in in 2012.
- [41:58]
DJ Envy
2012. So what do you think the Democratic Party lost after Obama exited?
- [42:03]
Eric Swalwell
I think we are perceived as protecting the status quo too much. And when we, like, here's a perfect example, we will say, you know, we need to protect democracy. And people are like, protect democracy? Democracy isn't working for me. Like, why would I want to protect a corrupt system when we probably should be approaching it as, like, we need to fix democracy. It's too hard for most people to vote in a democracy. You have a legal system where the wealthiest can find their way out of it, while everyone else, you know, is subjected, you know, to it. Money buys you access. In this democracy, you can go to Trump's meme coin dinner, spend a million dollars, and then get the bill you want passed or the pardon you need for your family members. So people don't look at democracy something that needs to be protected. They look at it as something that needs to be completely fixed. And I think we have been seen as defenders of the status quo and not willing to be bold enough to break and smash things to help regular people.
- [43:11]
DJ Envy
And that's what I'm saying. I really feel that the future of the Democratic Party, in order to be the future, you have to throw those old regimes under the bus. Thank you for your service, but that don't work anymore, especially after what just happened over the last four years.
- [43:26]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah. No message received. And if you don't get that message, I don't think your voters are going to keep you in, frankly.
- [43:32]
DJ Envy
I got a couple more questions.
- [43:33]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah.
- [43:33]
DJ Envy
Did that. Did the Chinese spy scandal hurt your credibility or did Republicans just weaponized, like a. A nothing burger, so to speak?
- [43:40]
Eric Swalwell
You know, the fact that the FBI and the House Ethics Committee said it was bullshit, like, I. I would hope that would be enough. But, like, in a disinformation society, like, I recognize that it's everyone on the right's favorite meme. My wife tells Me all the time. You know what? The second they're not going after you, you're not affected. And so I wear it as a badge of honor that these guys would want to lie about me all the time, because I think it means that I'm landing punches politically on them that sting. And frankly, I think a lot of Republicans look at me as like, oh, that's a straight, white, Christian male son of a cop. Like, everyone else like him looks like me. So when he comes at me, it's more betrayal to them. Like, I've heard that from them on their side that. That's. That's why they take it so personally. So I'm not going away. And. And they can say what they want, and the death threats will come. But if they think I'm gonna drop my lawsuit from January 6th against the President or if I regret being an impeachment manager or if I'm not gonna, like, go out and work my ass off to help us win the midterms, like, they're wrong. Like, I'm not going away. I came from nothing. I was raised by a cop who did the right thing. Like, to me, I'm playing with the House's money, so to speak. And so this is just a right or wrong mission for me.
- [45:07]
Charlemagne tha God
Do you get a lot of pushback from your party because you talk so real, you really don't give a fuck about what you say? You speak from the heart.
- [45:15]
Eric Swalwell
No. No, I don't think so. Actually, a lot of the newer members will come to me before they do, like, bigger interviews and ask you how to be. Yeah, I try and be the mentor to newer, younger members that I didn't have when I came in. I will say the best mentor I had was Nancy Pelosi. Not necessarily on messaging, but just on, like, wielding power. She put me on the Intelligence Committee in my sophomore term. She put me at the seat next to her on the leadership committee as the chair of the steering and policy on my third term. And so I learned, like, up front and center with her, you know, how to, like, work the caucus and wield power. I mean, because she knew how to flex. That woman knew how to flex. She's one of the greatest leaders I think we'll have had in our country in 100 years.
- [46:04]
DJ Envy
Made a lot of money, too, inside trading.
- [46:07]
Eric Swalwell
We should not trade stocks, period.
- [46:09]
DJ Envy
Student loan debt cleared.
- [46:10]
Eric Swalwell
If you look on that, we should not trade stocks. But I try and mentor the younger members, and what I tell them, as I said, is, give me your zero draft when you're asked a question. Don't give me your. Like, when you're doing an interview, don't give your first draft or your second draft. Just give what's in here, because that's probably what got you here. And the second you start trying to, as I said, make it appropriate for everyone, then you lose everyone. Yeah. So, no, I. I haven't. If there is pushback, they're not saying it to my face.
- [46:42]
DJ Envy
You know, when it comes to social media, you know, they are. They do try to kill your credibility all the time with the fang fang memes. Right.
- [46:49]
Eric Swalwell
So, yeah.
- [46:49]
DJ Envy
Do you think people.
- [46:50]
Eric Swalwell
I laugh at them. My. My best buddies will just send them to me and I'm like, God damn it.
- [46:55]
DJ Envy
But you think. You think people trust politicians who speak out against foreign interference when they themselves have been caught up in it? Even if they were cleared, even though.
- [47:03]
Eric Swalwell
You were cleared, I hope they would see that, like, the reason, by the way, when this volunteer came to our campaign in Barack Obama's first term. So that's how long ago it was. And I see it as. Because the FBI said, we don't know who this person is, so we want you to help us understand it. And then the FBI said, all I did was help. I see it as I have more credibility because when I had someone who. Who we didn't understand who they were trying to help my campaign, I didn't say, hey, can you raise a lot of money for me? Can I build a real estate deal in your country's capital? Can you help get me votes for my election? No. I said, I'm going to work with law enforcement. When Donald Trump did the opposite, right? When he had Russians come to him, he was like, russia, if you're listening, still trying to do a Trump Tower deal in Moscow. So I would say I actually did what you would hope in any elected official would do. But I get it. This is, as I said in the beginning, it's all existential now, as Bill Clinton called it, the politics of personal destruction. They have to destroy me because I'm a threat. And look at what Jasmine's going through, right? She's real. She lands on them. And so they are all over her. And I've told her, I said, they're gonna do this to you until you go away. And you can't hide under the bed. And she's not hiding under the bed, and she's not going. She's not going away. But that's what they want you to do. And they're very effective at finding the threats in our party and trying to make them go away. And as I said, you can't intimidate me. I've lived with the power going out when I was a kid, and we all scrambled to figure out how we're gonna turn the power back on. I've lived through the worst. Some Chinese meme that you're gonna make about me. Like, that doesn't bother me.
- [48:58]
DJ Envy
My last question. Is there anything Democrats can do to stop the GOP mega bill?
- [49:02]
Eric Swalwell
Yes. Continue to go to Republican districts and put pressure on. I'm getting 700 to 1,000 people in these districts when I go and do town halls. And that downward pressure that that is, we only need to flip three of them in the House. When it. If it comes back again, same thing in the Senate. And we have Senate seats that we did not think were in play, that are gonna be in play. Not just North Carolina, but also Florida, Iowa. I mean, look at the senator of Iowa. Two weeks ago, you would not have said that Iowa was gonna be a threat. And then the senator of Iowa went out and said, well, who cares if we're cutting Medicaid? We're all gonna die anyway. So, like, going to those states, doing these town halls, bringing out not just Republicans, but also Independents, not just Democrats, but Republicans and Independents, that works. And it's also an organizing tool, a muscle for us, you know, to exercise so that we're ready to flex it at the midterms next November.
- [49:55]
DJ Envy
And should Democrats who support this bill be shamed?
- [49:58]
Eric Swalwell
No, Democrats should support this bill. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do not support this bill.
- [50:03]
DJ Envy
Is this. This is the same bill that Chuck Schumer said he wanted to support, right?
- [50:06]
Eric Swalwell
No, no, that was the spending bill. That was the spending bill. Yeah. And that's going to come back up in September. And I hope we learned our lesson from what happened in March, that we should not be helping these guys get well, because as I said, they're firing cancer doctors. That's what. When you fund their government, you're funding a government that is firing cancer doctors.
- [50:23]
DJ Envy
Are they really cutting Medicaid?
- [50:24]
Eric Swalwell
Yes, because they said they're not.
- [50:25]
DJ Envy
So.
- [50:26]
Eric Swalwell
I mean, they say a lot of shit that they're actually doing.
- [50:28]
DJ Envy
I mean, we don't read the bills.
- [50:29]
Eric Swalwell
Yeah, no, they're really cutting Medicaid.
- [50:30]
DJ Envy
It's really in it. They want to cut Medicaid.
- [50:32]
Eric Swalwell
Yes, it will. It will kick 14 million people off Medicaid.
- [50:35]
DJ Envy
Wow.
- [50:36]
Eric Swalwell
14 million people. Wow. So.
- [50:37]
Charlemagne tha God
Well, Congressman Eric Swalwell, thank you so much for joining us this morning. And don't be a stranger.
- [50:41]
Eric Swalwell
I'll be back.
- [50:42]
Charlemagne tha God
All right. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.
- [50:44]
DJ Envy
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- [51:28]
Just Hilarious
If you're not watching BMF on Stars, you're seriously missing out from executive producer Curtis 50 Cent Jackson. The new season is coming, and Meech and Terry are leveling up. They're expanding their empire, launching a music label, and even hitting the 1995 Source Awards. Oh, and did I mention? Lamar is back. BMF is where drama, hustle and hip hop collide. The drama top tier, the stakes higher than ever. This is the season everyone's going to be talking about. Don't miss the season premiere June 6, only on Starz and the Starz app.
- [52:07]
Andrea Gunning
Hi, guys. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to bring you all season four, a story of a cop and his double life. I wanted to let you know that you can get access to all episodes of betrayal season 1, 2, 3, and betrayal weekly, and every single episode of betrayal season 4i ad free with an iheartrucrime plus subscription, available exclusively on Apple podcasts. Plus, you'll get access to all episodes of betrayal season 4 one week ahead of everyone else. Available only to I Heart True Crime plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for I Heart True Crime plus and subscribe today.
- [52:45]
Eric Swalwell
You say you'd never give in to a meltdown and never fill your feed with kid photos. You say you'd never put a pacifier in your mouth to clean it. And never let them run wild through the grocery store. So when you say you'd never let them get into a car without you there. No, it can happen. One in four hot car deaths happen when a kid gets into an unlocked car and can't get out. Never happens before you leave the car. Always stop. Look. Lock. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. This is an iHeart podcast.