INTERVIEW: Ex-DNC Chair Jaime Harrison On Civilian Life, Biden's Decline, Toxic Democrats, New Podcast + More

Summary

The Breakfast Club: Interview with Ex-DNC Chair Jaime Harrison

Podcast: The Breakfast Club (iHeartPodcasts)
Date: August 29, 2025
Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God
Guest: Jaime Harrison (Ex-DNC Chair, host of "At Our Table" podcast)

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Episode Overview

In this candid and highly energetic episode, the Breakfast Club hosts sit down with Jaime Harrison, the former chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), to discuss life after national politics, the state of the Democratic Party, the Biden administration's perceived decline, party messaging failures, campaign finance issues, and Harrison’s new podcast "At Our Table." The conversation covers a wide array of topics, including party leadership challenges, media framing, inter-party criticism, and insights into the struggles and realities of contemporary American politics, all while retaining the show’s signature irreverent and humorous tone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Transition from DNC Chair to Civilian Life

• Adjustment Struggles: Harrison reflects on the challenge of leaving the intense pace of national politics and returning to family life and new projects.
  • Quote: "When you are in the storm, all you know is how to deal with buckling down for that. When it’s peaceful, you don’t know what to do with yourself... I’m just happy that I got this podcast, because otherwise I’d be bouncing off the walls." (03:09)
• Midlife Crossroads: Jaime ponders the next phase in his career and the commitment to not letting his sons grow up in a world like his grandparents did.
  • Quote: "I'm at one of those crossroads... I am not going to allow my sons to grow up in a world like my grandparents grew up in." (04:29)

DNC Chair Role & The Democratic Party’s Structure

• Role Clarification: Harrison demystifies the DNC chair’s role, highlighting collaboration rather than control, especially when the party holds the White House.
  • Quote: "When you have the White House, what you become is an extension of the White House political team... When you don't, it's very diffuse." (05:17–06:10)
• “The DNC Picks the Candidate” Myth:
  • Harrison rebuffs the idea that the DNC or its chair can dictate candidate selection.
    • Quote: "That's a bunch of baloney... Tell me the power I have to pick. If I'm the DNC chair, what power do I have?" (07:06–07:16)
  • Charlamagne pushes back, questioning why insiders didn’t urge Biden not to run, voicing public frustrations. (07:59–10:24)

Biden, Age, Decline & Party Dynamics

• Candid Talk on Biden’s Age:
  • The hosts and Harrison openly debate whether Biden should have stepped down earlier, and if his age and alleged decline hurt the party.
    • Notable exchange:
      • Charlamagne: "That man was too old. Everybody knew he was too old." (08:01)
      • Harrison: "I’d rather take an old Joe Biden on a respirator right now than a goddamn Donald Trump right now." (09:24)
• Media Narratives: Harrison disputes reports, like in Jake Tapper’s "Original Sin," about Biden’s failing memory or not recognizing Harrison.
  • Quote: "That’s a bunch of bullshit... Every time that Joe Biden saw me, he’d ask about Jim Clyburn." (09:00–09:24)
• Democrats’ Reluctance to Challenge:
  • Harrison argues, “If people thought that Joe Biden was too old, then some real people should have stepped up and said, ‘I’m going to run.’” (08:08)
  • Charlamagne contends the party attacks those who challenge incumbents, indicating a “toxic” environment for dissent. (08:33)
• Out-of-Touchness & Messaging Failure:
  • Harrison: "Democrats send people to D.C. who want to get stuff done... Republicans want power." (15:22)
  • The party’s policy-wonk tendencies, Harrison says, make them bad at selling accomplishments to voters. (15:22–17:38)
  • Biden’s failure to connect economic policies to personal benefit is noted as a missed opportunity, and Harrison describes his attempt to create “Biden Empowerment Centers” to bridge this gap (17:45–19:55).

Party Messaging, Media, and Influence

• Podcasting as a Counter-Narrative:
  • Harrison started his own podcast to give Democrats control of their narrative and resist being framed by mainstream media.
    • Quote: "I want to build our own frame. I got tired of our candidates going to CNN or MSNBC, getting five minutes, and then the media builds a frame to define who that person was." (20:01)
  • He objects to being labeled "the Joe Rogan of the left," emphasizing authenticity: “I never uttered Joe Rogan’s name… I want to have my show to talk about the things I think are important.” (20:15)
• Media & Social Media’s Role:
  • Podcasts, TikTok, and celebrity interviews are discussed as increasingly influential in shaping voters’ perceptions (21:44–22:02).
  • Harrison attempted to create a DNC-branded YouTube channel but was thwarted by the White House, reflecting internal resistance to modernizing outreach. (22:02–23:16)

Democratic Party’s Weaknesses & Internal Problems

• Calls for Accountability & Fighting Spirit:
  • Harrison sharply criticizes Merrick Garland’s tenure as Attorney General:
    • Quote: "He was abysmally awful... I wish Doug Jones or somebody of that ilk would have been the Attorney General." (23:23)
• Critique of Party’s Inaction & Gatekeeping:
  • Harrison discusses frustration that good ideas often die because “gatekeepers” around the president and vice president block them. (17:45–19:55)

Campaign Finance, “Corporate Democrats,” and Donor Influence

• Direct Challenge on Corporate Influence:
  • Charlamagne presses the perception that Democrats are beholden to corporate donors, Wall Street, and AIPAC.
  • Harrison strongly disputes the idea that the DNC is controlled by corporate money, saying most funds came from small donors (5–10 dollars), with large individual donors making up a much smaller slice (about 30%).
    • Quote: "If it’s a small percentage… I can give you a dollar, that doesn't mean you're going to do what I told you for that dollar." (51:37)
  • He pushes for campaign finance reform, citing the “sinful” amount of money spent in U.S. elections and the need to cap spending. (45:20–45:59)
• AIPAC & Lobby Groups:
  • Harrison admits AIPAC and similar groups wield outsized power over both parties, suggesting that only changing campaign finance laws could address this. (48:09–49:32)

Toxic Party Brand & Internalized Critique

• “Brand Management” Dilemma:
  • Harrison laments that Democrats publicly criticize their own brand, unlike Republicans, which only worsens the party’s image.
    • Quote: "Republicans don't throw mud on their car, but Democrats, man, we will... Your brand is going to be bad if every day all you do is talk about how bad things are." (32:50–35:04)
• Culture, Messaging, and Jargon:
  • The crew jokes about academic language and the “45 words and phrases for Democrats to avoid” memo, highlighting the party’s messaging issues and disconnect from regular people. (53:43–54:09)

2028 and the Future of the Democrats

• Who’s Next?
  • Harrison doesn’t offer a favorite for 2028, stressing it’s still early and that many strong contenders will emerge. (34:03–34:24)
  • Charlamagne maintains that unless the party is willing to “throw that old regime under the bus” and publicly address past failings, renewal is unlikely. (32:33–32:50)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Harrison on Biden:
  • "I’d rather take an old Joe Biden on a respirator right now than a goddamn Donald Trump right now who’s destroying this country." (09:24)
• Charlamagne on Failed Choice:
  • "America shouldn’t have to choose between authoritarian strategy and an old man on a respirator." (10:10)
• Harrison’s Candid Memoir:
  • "In my book there won’t be anonymous sources. It’s straight from me." (32:22)
• Democratic Messaging:
  • "We send people to Washington, D.C. who are policy nerds… Republicans go for power." (15:22)
• On Garland:
  • "Merrick Garland was awful. He was abysmally awful." (23:23)
• On Party Critique:
  • "Your brand is going to be bad if all you do is talk about how bad things are." (35:04)
• On Influence of AIPAC:
  • "Organizations like that probably do have a little too much influence. And the only way we curb that is to change the campaign finance laws." (48:18)
• Charlamagne Mocks Democratic Denial:
  • "Why don’t you just throw that whole regime under the bus and talk about all the things they got wrong?" (32:37)
• Debate Over “Crackheads” vs. “Addicts”:
  • The hosts and Harrison banter about politically correct labels for addiction, underlying the party’s challenge with plain speaking (54:09–54:42).

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:09] — Jaime Harrison on transitioning from politics to civilian and podcast life
• [05:17] — DNC Chair role explained
• [07:06–08:24] — Debating whether the DNC “picks the candidate” & the party’s reluctance for dissent
• [09:00–09:24] — Rebuking claims of Biden’s cognitive decline
• [09:24–10:24] — Heated debate on Biden vs. Trump and the party’s options
• [13:27–14:11] — Debate over whether Biden’s decline was more than just age
• [15:22–16:32] — Democrats’ messaging problems & missed opportunities
• [17:45–19:55] — Harrison’s frustration with party gatekeepers and failed outreach projects
• [20:01–21:44] — Why Jaime started his podcast and how he seeks to build counter-narratives
• [23:23–23:54] — Blasting Merrick Garland’s leadership as AG
• [32:50–35:04] — Party branding issues; internal criticism vs. public perception
• [45:00–46:06] — Campaign finance, small versus large donors
• [48:09–49:32] — AIPAC, lobbies, and how money warps policy influence
• [50:55–51:37] — DNC and corporate money: perceptions versus reality
• [54:09–54:42] — Joking about “crackhead” language—a reflection on culture and messaging issues

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Conclusion & Takeaways

This episode offers an unusually unfiltered, at times confrontational, but always revealing window into the post-2024 Democratic Party. Jaime Harrison sharply critiques both internal gatekeeping and the party’s chronic messaging failures, while also denying its worst accusations about corporate control. The lively exchange with The Breakfast Club crew surfaces tensions at the heart of modern American politics: leadership accountability, media distortion, campaign finance, and the struggle to connect with real people versus elite gatekeepers.

For listeners seeking both entertainment and insight into the inner workings of the Democratic Party at a pivotal time, this episode is a candid must-listen.

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Subscribe to Jaime Harrison's "At Our Table" podcast for more unfiltered political conversations.

Transcript

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

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[Charlamagne tha God]

Hold up. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club. Finish or y' all done.

[DJ Envy]

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne, the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. La Rosa is here as well. We got a special guest in the building.

[Charlamagne tha God]

He's at our table.

[DJ Envy]

He's at our table. He's an attorney, he's a politician, and he is the former chair of dnc. Yes, dnc. Ladies and gentlemen, we have Jamie Harrison.

[Jamie Harrison]

Welcome. Thank you. Thank You. Thank you all so much for having me.

[Charlamagne tha God]

How are you, my South Carolina brethren, man?

[Jamie Harrison]

I'm good. I'm good. You know, I'm not traveling as much. I'm, like, shuttling the kids back and forth from soccer practice and swimming lessons and violin lessons and all that other stuff. Now I can just be a dad. And then I got my podcast stuff. So, you know, it's different, but it's good to be able to be at home with my kids and my wife and, you know, of course, my blood pressure still goes up when all those. I see all this crazy shit that's happening.

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

I was gonna say, how do politicians adjust when you make that transition? Like, do you ever fully just relax?

[Jamie Harrison]

It's a hard adjustment. It really is, because you. When you are in the mix, the time and in the storm, like, all you know is how to deal with, like, buckling down for that. And so when you get a time where it's sort of peaceful, you don't know what to do with yourself. Right. And so you get online and you start seeing things, and it starts stirring you up, and you just get a little unhinged. And so I'm just happy that I got this, you know, podcast and all those other stuff that I'm doing is it gives me an outlet to get some of that out, because otherwise, I mean, I just. I'd be bouncing off the walls.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Is this what you saw yourself doing after being former DNC chair?

[Jamie Harrison]

You know, Charlemagne? I didn't know what the hell I wanted to do. I mean, I had hoped that Kamala Harris would have won and she would say, jamie, why don't you go be ambassador over there? I don't know, some, you know, some island. Yeah. Somewhere. And, you know, my wife and I can relax and invite y' all over, you know, come down to the ambassador's residence in the Bahamas, and we. But I don't know. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I think I'm at one of those. I'll be 50 next year. I'm at one of those midlife. Not a crisis, but a crossroads. And you're just trying to figure out what I'm going to do with the next phase of my life. And the one thing I sound like a Democrat. Oh, no.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Sound like the whole party.

[Jamie Harrison]

Yeah, you're right. It is a whole party. But the one thing I do know is. And this is the. You know, it's like 10 toes down on it. I see where the country's going, and I see so many Reflections of what we grew up in in South Carolina. And I just know that I am not going to allow my sons to grow up in a world like my grandparents grew up in. So I got to figure out what it is that I have to do in order to prevent that from happening. Because more, little by little, every day, we see something new. But that's my one commitment that I know that I am definitely set on. We gotta figure out ways for this to be better, because right now, it's scary.

[DJ Envy]

So the chair of the dnc, what was your position? What was your job?

[Jamie Harrison]

Well, the chair of the DNC is very different when you have the White House, and when you don't have the White House, break it down. So the Democratic National Committee is, in essence, it's the organization, the national organization for the Democratic party. We got 57 states and territories that all have state Democratic parties. And they all work with me now. I'm not their boss. It's sort of a partnership, a collaboration. And what we really do is we're the infrastructure for the party. So the people who knock on doors, the people who make phone calls, the volunteers, making sure that resources are on the ground to do those type of things. And when you have the White House, what you become is, in essence, an extension of the White House political team. Your boss, like, instead of people say, well, you're the chair of the Democratic Party. No, I'm a conduit in the. In this system. Right. I get my instructions from the White House on what to do. Now, Ken Martin, who's a new DNC chair, he doesn't have a boss. Right? Because there's nobody in the White House. When you have the White House, the president is the head of the party. When you don't have the White House, it is very diffuse. It's broken down. And so what you do at the DNC is you build the infrastructure for the next campaigns, the next elections that take place, like the door knockers, Whether you're going to do. The party hasn't done registration really the way that it needs to. But all of those things that you see on campaigns, that's what the DNC does. And it works with its other sister committees, the dccc, which is the Congressional Campaign Committee, the dscc, which is the Senate Campaign Committee. So you don't control the whole thing. You just get a slice of the pie, and you just try to focus your energy on building up that infrastructure.

[DJ Envy]

So there was always rumor that the DNC were the ones that, you know, quote, unquote, picked who they wanted to be.

[Jamie Harrison]

And that's. That's a bunch of baloney.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Stop it, Jamie. That's not baloney.

[Jamie Harrison]

Oh, yo, man.

[DJ Envy]

But that's what they say. They said they pick somebody who feels the president.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You can tell the truth.

[Jamie Harrison]

Well, I am telling the truth. Tell me the power I have to pick. If I'm the DNC chair. What. What power do I have? The pick, like people say. Well, you could have told Joe Biden to not run. Like, seriously?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah.

[Jamie Harrison]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You could have said that.

[Jamie Harrison]

I could have.

[DJ Envy]

Nobody was against him during that time.

[Jamie Harrison]

I could have. And do you think he would have listened? This is the most powerful. No, no.

[Charlamagne tha God]

To your point.

[DJ Envy]

He did listen.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Somebody did listen to him. He did listen to somebody. Finally.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, I think so.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Everybody should have told him earlier.

[Jamie Harrison]

I think ultimately what the president saw was that this fight is actually tearing the party apart, and I don't want that to be on me.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Stop it, Jamie.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, I'm not.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I'm telling you, you're not beholden to them no more.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, it's not about being beholden to them.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That man was too old. Everybody knew he was too old.

[Jamie Harrison]

But Charlemagne, he should have been a.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Transitional president from the beginning.

[Jamie Harrison]

Charlamagne. I get all of that. I get all of that. But you know what? Somebody should have stepped up. If people thought that Joe Biden was too old, then some real people should have stepped up and said, you know what? I'm going to run.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Y' all kick him out.

[Jamie Harrison]

Look, is Dean Phillips ser. No, no, no. Honesty.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You're acting like that is. You're acting like that is the normal process of things. Yes. Just challenge the sitting president.

[Jamie Harrison]

No.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You know y'.

[Jamie Harrison]

All.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You know y' all crucify people for that.

[Jamie Harrison]

Well, this is it. What you're telling me, you saying, well, that's not the normal end. You're saying, is it normal for the DNC chair to say, Mr. President, you need to sit down?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yes. And that's not normal.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, no, it is not.

[Charlamagne tha God]

If George Clooney can say it. If Charlemagne, the guy can say it. If all these people who not in politics can say it. But y'. All. But y'.

[Jamie Harrison]

All.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Jake Tapper book. I read the book, said President Biden walked up to you, shook your hand.

[Jamie Harrison]

That's a bunch of bullshit.

[Charlamagne tha God]

People know who you were.

[Jamie Harrison]

That's a bunch of bullshit.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I don't believe that, Jamie.

[Jamie Harrison]

But why don't you believe me?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Tell people.

[DJ Envy]

I don't know what happened.

[Charlamagne tha God]

He said that Jake Tapping Alex Thompson wrote in their Book original sin. That Biden shook DNC chair at the time, Jamie Harrison's hand and didn't recognize who he was.

[DJ Envy]

Probably didn't.

[Jamie Harrison]

I. I said that is bullshit. Because it was bullshit. Every time that Joe Biden. See, Joe Biden always related me to Jim Clyburn. Right, so everything.

[Charlamagne tha God]

He thought you was Jim Clyburn.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, no, come on. I walked right into that shit. You gonna be clipped. I walked right into that. No, but every time, because, you know, Joe and Jim have really close relationship now. They trust each other and all. And so every time, he's gonna be like, how's Jim doing? And, you know, every single time. That's the. That's his lead. All question, how. How's Jim doing? Tell Jim he needs to give me a call. Every single time. And so was President Biden. Oh, yes. I mean, he was damn old, but when you take a look at it. Charlamagne. When you look at what this man was trying to do, I'd rather take an old Joe Biden on a respirator right now than a goddamn Donald Trump right now who's destroying this country.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That type of rhetoric is exactly why y' all lost. And what I mean by that is America shouldn't have to choose between a Donald Trump. Well, then people need to. Old man on a respirator. I shouldn't have to choose between authoritarian regime, authoritarian strategy, and old man on the respirator.

[Jamie Harrison]

Charlemagne. You. You. You can't. You can't win something if you don't have somebody to get in the contest to run against.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And if. If Joe Biden would have said, hey, I'm gonna be a transitional president. I'm only gonna be here for four years, that would have gave you, as DNC Chair, the party, a whole lot of time.

[Jamie Harrison]

But he didn't, right?

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's right.

[Jamie Harrison]

We could have. If, you know, if I was 6 foot 5 or 6 10, I'd be playing basketball right now, and, you know, a million dollar house, but I don't. Right? So that did not happen. So when. When that did not happen, then what you got to do is play with the cards. It's like you playing spades, right? Man, if. If that would have gotten, you know, deuce here and this and that, then I could have won that hand. No, you play with a. You play with a hand that you dealt with, right? And so in the end of the day, Joe Biden decided to run. Nobody decided of significance decided to challenge him. So therefore, that is the horse that you have to ride.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Do you blame on the Democratic Party, because there clearly was a lot of people who saw Decline and decided not to say anything. But if they would have maybe rang the alarm, then maybe other people would have been like, you know what? I am going to run.

[Jamie Harrison]

I don't know about that, to be quite honest. Charlemagne. I mean, the reason why you elect the president is to get shit done, right? That's the reason. Not because they look good in a suit, not because they're young or old or whatever, is to get stuff done. And if you take a look, objectively speaking, you take a look at all that Joe Biden got done legislatively, and you compare it. Compare it to Ronald Reagan. You can compare it to George W. Bush, to Barack Obama, Bill Clinton. There has not been a president that got more done legislatively than any president since Lyndon Baines Johnson.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I agree with you. But getting things done don't win campaigns, sadly.

[Jamie Harrison]

But that's why you send somebody to Washington, D.C. to get stuff done for you to do stuff for your community, to move things forward. And we see the contrast now of somebody who doesn't get things done or gets things done that actually hurts people. Like. Like, why send a young person, you know, Jim Carbon, I remember once when I was a young staffer in his office, and he said, I was bitching about, you know, some of these older people just need to sit down and let some of these young folks stand up. And he said to me, he was very quiet. He listened to me just rant and read, and he pushed back in his chair and he said, jim, let me ask you a question. Which would you prefer, an old Thurgood Marshall or a young Clarence Thomas? And I sat there and I thought about it, and I said, okay, I see what you. He said, you know, yes, age is important, but it's also about your values. It's about who you are, what you will fight for, who you will fight for. And so that's a part of the package. Yes, Joe Biden was old. I get that. But we also know that this man was committed to certain things to make things better for folks. Did he do it perfectly? No, we don't. None of us do anything perfectly right. There's nobody that has walked this earth that is perfect but the Son of God. And hopefully he'll come back again sometime soon.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I wouldn't waste my time. Well, if I was him.

[DJ Envy]

I hate the old conversation because it just wasn't. He just wasn't.

[Jamie Harrison]

Just the fact that it wasn't about his age.

[DJ Envy]

It just wasn't the fact because we know a lot of people that are 80 year old on point. He just felt like he wasn't on point. It felt like my, my recipes to my mother in law. It felt like he had early signs of dementia.

[Jamie Harrison]

She had.

[DJ Envy]

So the signs that I seen with her were the signs that I was seeing with him.

[Jamie Harrison]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Forgetting names, shaking people's hands that weren't there. It just seemed a little bit. And it had nothing to do with old. Had to, had to do with the fact that I just didn't think he was 100%.

[Jamie Harrison]

I, I mean, listen, if somebody.

[DJ Envy]

I agree, but you took it.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, no, no. As somebody who interacted with the president a lot in 2024. A lot. I mean, I flew, flew on Air Force One to Eddie Bernice Johnson's funeral with him from Charleston to Dallas and we spent an hour and a half and he basically was giving me a history lesson of what's going on all across the world. No notes and just a very casual conversation. But yes, I knew he was old. Right. And he did some of the mannerisms that old people do. But in terms of like his mental acuity and his sharpness, he knew it all. And you better, like, if he asks you a question, you better know the answer to it. Right. And so like seeing the frame that was built around and then seeing the reality of my interactions, my personal interactions with them, that it was not always the same. Right? It wasn't. And so that's part of my frustration is like, guys, I understand that this guy isn't perfect, but you know what? We also have a vice president. So in the end of the day, if he can't perform, you got a vice president that is there who can.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I don't. To me, it wasn't anything his age definitely played a part in it. But it's the fact that Democrats suck at messaging and all the good things that somebody like the Biden administration did, y' all didn't know how to message and y' all just suck at campaigning. And I think that y' all about to make the same mistake because you're still on some we good day bad stuff. Clearly, America don't care about that.

[Jamie Harrison]

Well, listen, what I think we have to do on the messaging side, one of the things, the problem that Democrats have, and I say this as a party, and I said this as a party chair, is that we send people to Washington, D.C. who want to get stuff done, who are policy wonks. Many of them are really policy nerds. Right. All they want to do is they want to go to D.C. they want to write their bills. They want to get something passed and solving the issue that people in their communities are dealing with. The Republicans are reversed. They want to go to Washington, D.C. to have power. Right. Either power to block something or power or power to move things forward. And they know that, you know, they don't need to be versed in all of these policies and all that. And so they just focus on the politics of it, whereas Democrats don't like to focus on the politics. They just like to focus on the policy. But that's not always good because you also need the politics part. Like, you got to be able to sell what you've been able to do. One of the things I tried to get the president, well, people in the administration do, is. Yeah. I said, Mr. President, and I said this on this flight that we took. We were down in Charleston, visit Mother Emanuel, and then flew to Dallas.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Is that when he pooped his pants?

[Jamie Harrison]

Allegedly, man. I don't know what the hell you talking about.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I'm serious. I'm serious. They said that the last time he visited Mother Emmanuel and me, he pooped his fan charlamagne.

[Jamie Harrison]

You. You saying something that literally.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I'm not even joking, man.

[Jamie Harrison]

That's. That's crazy. That's some crazy. That's some crazy talk, because I. I was again with the president all day. We even went to. What's the soul food restaurant that we went to?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Animals.

[Jamie Harrison]

Yeah, I know. Yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's what I'm telling. I'm not even joking. I heard that. They said last time he was there, he said he pooped his pants, man. They said he was taking so long to come out. So local law enforcement was asking the Secret Service, what's going on? And somebody in Secret Service said, look, the president just.

[Jamie Harrison]

He shot it.

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

So many headlines asking did. They're trying to figure out, did he.

[Jamie Harrison]

Poop his pants, man, that's crazy.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I'm just. I'm not. I'm not spreading no gossip. This is not a secret.

[Jamie Harrison]

No. Well, I, I, I. I never heard smell.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Not to see.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, no, exactly. Y' all look crazy. Y' all are absolutely crazy as hell. Just crazy. Let me get to my story, man. Hell, what was I trying to say anyway before charlamagne ended, pooping the pants.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Why are you lying about something, man?

[Jamie Harrison]

Oh, come on.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Something?

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

You told the administration to do something. Y on a flight.

[Jamie Harrison]

So? So. Because part of it is about selling what you do. And I told the President because as I went across the country, people weren't connected. We pass all the stuff, but people weren't connected to the stuff that we actually pass, like the student loan stuff. There are a lot of people who qualify for all of the student loan relief, but they didn't know how to get it right. And so I said, well, Mr. President, why don't. And I said, the DNC can actually do this. We can open up, we can call them Biden empowerment centers all across the country, basically, where people could come in and say, I'm trying to get some of that Biden student loan money. I'm trying to figure out how to do a small business, $20,000 at small business grants, but I don't know how to. How to. How to get that money. I'm trying to do something in terms of the broadband and all that other stuff. And I said, you can have these all across the country so that people are now then connected to the resources that you are actually bringing. Bringing into the community. Because part of the problem is that people didn't know how to get it right. You had the money there, but can't. People can't access it. He was like, oh, that's a great idea. That's a great idea. I thought it was going to move forward. I thought that we would do something about it. But the one thing that. And I'm writing about this now in my book, the one problem that you have is, like, if these ideas don't come from certain people that are in the sort of universes around the president or the vice president, then they never see the light of day, they never crystallize. And that is part of the fundamental problems that we have right now within our party, is that we gotta break through some of these things. You got these gatekeepers who want all of the power, all of the control, all of the influence, and don't want other voices to come break in to say, you know, we're not doing this right. We need to talk to these people. We need to bring these people into the room. And so that's part of my big frustration as DNC chair. It was that, you know, there are a lot of things that we want to do. A lot of bells that we were ringing very early on about this group, this group, that group, but the president or the vice president never actually really heard them because the gatekeepers kept that information from them.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You know, did you start your podcast at our table because you wanted to kind of counter, I guess, the manosphere?

[Jamie Harrison]

Yes. No, no. What I wanted to do is I wanted to build our own frame. Right. I get so tired of our.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I love how that South Carolina came out of you and you told the truth initially, but now you're giving us the political yes. And then you're like, well, actually, no.

[Jamie Harrison]

But what I want to do is build our own frame. Because what I got tired of is, you know, we would have our Democratic candidates who were going to CNN or msnbc, they get five minutes to talk about whatever, and then the, the media itself would build a frame to define who that person was. Right. It's the same reason why I had Hunter Biden on my, on my podcast. He was one of the first interviews because you could say hunter Biden. And all you know about Hunter Biden is what you heard on Fox News from people who opposed him or maybe something that you may have read from somebody in, from the administration. But you never heard the man talk in his own words. You never heard him go out and defend what he did or to accept blame for what he did. You never heard him talk about his father and defend his father and all that stuff. And I always feel like, give people a vehicle so that they can put in their own words where they are, and then, and then you can make a decision based off of that. But, but what you see right now in politics really is that the media will build a frame. Like when I launched my podcast, they said, Jamie Harrison going to be the Joe Rogan of, of the left. I never uttered Joe Rogan's name. Right. But the media wants to create these dynamics and this and that. Like, I've never watched Joe Rogan show other than little clips online. I don't want to be anybody but Jamie Harrison. And I want to have my show to talk about the things that I think are important, that I think people in the community want to talk about.

[Charlamagne tha God]

As a person who, you know, have to focus on campaigns and stuff, how much influence do you think that those podcasts or even celebrity has on, you know, candidates? Well, you know, everybody says he won the election because he went on all these different, you know, the Theo Vaughn's, the Flagrance with Andrew shows.

[Jamie Harrison]

I think those things have influence on the margins. Right. There are a lot of people who get their media and their news from social media and podcasts and clips that they see on TikTok and Instagram and all those different things. And so understanding that, you know, most people these days, they get the bit of information that they do consume either through a little headline or they see a little clip for 15 or 20 seconds. And so knowing that that means then the party has to adapt itself to understanding that's where the electorate is. That's how they're getting their information. And it is hard as hell. It's like, you know, trying to turn. To turn a battleship to get the party to understand, like, where things are going and what you got to do. And so, you know, I wanted to start, When I was DNC chair, I wanted to start a YouTube channel called DTV, where we could have had shows at the DNC. We had this beautiful studio in the basement of the DNC where we could have shows. And we can bring in the Jasmine Crocketts and the AOCs and all that and different voices in the party that are reflected in the diversity of party and talk about our stuff in our own words. But I got from some of the folks in the White House, well, we shouldn't spend resources on that, right?

[Charlamagne tha God]

How come Merrick Garland doesn't get any.

[Jamie Harrison]

Smoke, that he should get plenty of smoke? I wish.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Now we talking, Jamie.

[Jamie Harrison]

Okay. I wish Doug Jones would have. I thought that was the biggest mistake of the Biden administration appointing Merrick Garland. And it's because we always want to be, like, the above the fray. We always want to be like, well, let's do it by the book. Let's do it academic. But sometimes, shit, you got to fight, right? You just got to fight. And I wish Doug Jones or somebody of that ilk would have been the Attorney General, because Merrick Garland was awful. He was abysmally awful.

[Charlamagne tha God]

He didn't investigate the Epstein files.

[Jamie Harrison]

Drop the ball.

[Charlamagne tha God]

He indicted Trump too late on January 6th because he didn't want to seem too political.

[Jamie Harrison]

Political.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Meanwhile, what is Trump is out here? Like, I'm locking all y' all up.

[Jamie Harrison]

Yep.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Locking all my political opponents.

[Jamie Harrison]

Chris, Christie, Bolton, everybody.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Obama dog.

[Jamie Harrison]

I mean, everybody.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So why weren't y' all saying things like that, though? Like, why, when. I'm not saying you even got to say it publicly.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, no, no. Well, listen, there were times in which, you know, I said to the president or I said to the vice president or I said to the staff certain things. Like, you know, I remember having conversation with Anita Dunn on the TikTok stuff. I was like, that is dumb as hell for us in an election cycle to be going after TikTok. I was like, y' all wait until. If you want to do something like that, do it after. Like, sometimes politically stuff, when you know that young people, that's where they're getting their information, you know, that's what. What they want. Like, why are we doing that, like, why are we trying to do these things that make it even more difficult for us to win?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, but that's frivolous stuff. I'm talking about things like, hey, why isn't Merrick Garland going after this person that y' all told us is an extensive threat, who we saw leading attempt to cool this country on January 6th? President Biden? Why are you saying things like you don't want, you know, to investigate that matter?

[Jamie Harrison]

Why? Well, because, you know, Biden Also, again, being 80 years old, coming from a different time in terms of our government, he was old school in terms of looking at, you know, the difference or the line between the White House and the Justice Department. I mean, that's the way that things used to operate. But we now know that we're in a different era. Like, it is a different frame. And we see that Trump has turned all of that on his head, and that sometimes you got to lean in and lean in heavily on some of these things, and you got to get somebody over there who is not just who sees justice as being blind, but also is not politically naive as well. And that's part of the problem with Merrick Garland. I mean, I had problems with Merrick Garland when Barack Obama nominated him to go to the Supreme Court instead of nominating a black woman that time around. Right. I thought that was a perfect opportunity for us to get a black woman on the Supreme Court. But again, we wanted. We always are as a party. We're always thinking ourselves out of things. Right. So the calculus was, well, let's find some middle.

[DJ Envy]

There's something special about folks who come through without being asked. Like your coworker surprising you with your favorite coffee just because. Or your friend handing you the aux cord the moment you get into the car. No debate, no fight, just positive vibes. That kind of love. It just hits different. And that's exactly the energy. AT&T is on with their new guarantee. If there's ever a network interruption, AT&T will proactively credit you for a full day of service. No calls, no emails, no jumping through hoops. It's just handled. It's like the universe saying, I got you. Except this time it's not the stars aligning, it's your network. And let's be real, that connection is everything. Whether you're holding down the group chat, checking in on your parents, scrolling TikTok, your network's gotta come through. And if there's a problem, AT&T is on the case. No stress, no drama, just real backup when it counts. Credit for fiber downtime lasting 20 minutes or more or wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or more caused by a single incident impacting 10 or more towers. Restrictions and exclusions apply. See att.com guaranty for full details at and T Connecting changes everything.

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going.

[Jamie Harrison]

Through something like that is a traumatic experience. But it's also not the end of your life.

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Lea Tritate. On my new podcast, the Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of black girls mothering as resistance and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness, the way it has echoed and reverberated throughout your life, impacting your very legacy. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro and these are just a few of the profound and powerful stories I'll be mining on our 12th season of Family Secrets. With over 37 million downloads, we continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories. I can't wait to share 10 powerful new episodes with you. Stories of tangled up identities, concealed truths, and the way in which family Secrets almost always need to be told. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to Family Secrets Season 12 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jamie Harrison]

What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on Earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced.

[Charlamagne tha God]

He said, you are a number, a.

[Jamie Harrison]

New York State number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs Aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline. Discipline, physical training, hard labor and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months.

[Charlamagne tha God]

The first night was overwhelming and you don't know who's next to you and we didn't know what to expect in the morning.

[Jamie Harrison]

Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The road guy that the Republicans are not going to oppose. And guess what? They did. They opposed him.

[Charlamagne tha God]

In hindsight, you admitted it already. You said Merrick Garland was terrible.

[Jamie Harrison]

He was terrible.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Why can't you say that in regards to Biden not being a one term president?

[Jamie Harrison]

Well, because, Because I.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Listen, those two things are the reason. Those two things are the reason Trump is back in the White House.

[Jamie Harrison]

I really don't.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's a big part of it.

[Jamie Harrison]

Listen, man, if, if folks would have. And this is the amazing difference between Democrats and Republicans. Trump got convicted 34 times convicted felon. 34 times convicted felon. Did you hear a peep from the Republican Party the next day saying that Donald Trump should not be our nominee?

[Charlamagne tha God]

No. Because they knew he could win. That's the difference. There were so many of us who knew Biden couldn't win. That's the difference.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, no, no. How did they know that he couldn't, that he could win when he lost in 2020?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Who? Trump.

[Jamie Harrison]

Trump.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Because you could clearly see the momentum between the two candidates. No, we all had this conversation.

[Jamie Harrison]

Momentum in politics goes just like it goes just like that.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You could see that, Jamie.

[Jamie Harrison]

That's the same reason.

[DJ Envy]

They wasn't messing with Biden.

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

We knew that's the same reason why when people thought Kamala was going to, you know, make this break faster.

[Charlamagne tha God]

When.

[Jamie Harrison]

Because of the momentum at the same time. At the same time as Trump conviction. That was around the same period that Joe Biden gave that State of the Union speech when everybody was like, oh, God damn, that was a good State of Union speech. I have not heard a better State of the Union speech in that time.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I've never heard. No, I never thought he could win.

[Jamie Harrison]

Well, regardless of whether you thought or not his numbers were good, it was great.

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

We were just happy to see him get through it. I'm from Delaware, so I'm a big Biden supporter.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I read the original sin, man.

[Jamie Harrison]

The original sin is a bunch of shit. Keep going. Come on. I mean, like Alex Thompson and Jake Tapper.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Seriously, I'm just telling you what I. Seriously, I don't know why a bunch.

[Jamie Harrison]

Of anonymous sources because nobody wants to go on record to say anything. Anonymous sources. I can tell you in my book there won't be anonymous sources. It's straight for me.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Can I say something, though?

[Jamie Harrison]

Yeah, I'm listening.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Whoever the future of the party is, whoever's going to lead the Democratic Party.

[Jamie Harrison]

And the DNC won't pick them, the American people will.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You have to be able to throw that old regime under the bus. The. You're gonna have to. You're gonna have to be willing to throw that old regime under the bus and talk about all the things that they got wrong.

[Jamie Harrison]

Yeah, but why don't we talk about. See, this is the thing. Let's talk about the stuff that we're getting, right? Part of the reason that the brand for the party is. There are a lot of reasons. The brand for the party is suffering. But part of the reason is that we are always like, if you look at the Republican side, on the flip side, they are not talking about, well, well, we're getting this. We got this wrong the last time and we get this wrong. Man, they get shit run all the time. But no, but they don't talk about it. Part of the reason why they win is because they're not talking about. It's like you got a brand new car and every day you throw mud on it. And then after three months you're like, well, why is my car not shiny anymore? It's because you, damn it. You throw mud on it every, every month. Like, Republicans don't throw mud on their car, but Democrats, man, we will. We will hand wring and be like, oh, I wish we would have done this and I wish we'd done that. Lean, lean into what you do and that you are doing well and have that be your lead.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But that's your. Instead of being the party of purity.

[Jamie Harrison]

Well, I don't know about.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You walk around and act like you're the party and y' all don't get anything wrong. You don't lie about nothing, then people are going to hold you to it.

[Jamie Harrison]

We can't be the party of purity on one side and then you then whine and complain about all the stuff that we get wrong the next time. That. That's. Those two things can't coexist in the same space.

[DJ Envy]

So who do you like in 2028? What candidates do you like in 2028?

[Jamie Harrison]

I. To be honest, I don't know yet. I really don't know. Yet, I mean, there are going to be so many people who come through South Carolina.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Democrats don't know whether they coming or going. This is terrible.

[Jamie Harrison]

Come on, man. This is the same stuff that happened and happened in 2020. This is the same stuff that happened in 2008. It's the same stuff that happened, I mean, right after. Yeah. In 2008 when the Barack Obama, you had like 12 people run then you had 20 people run in 2020.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But there's a lot of formidable candidates out there. I mean, the problem is the Democratic brand is so toxic and disgusting and bad.

[Jamie Harrison]

It's because. Because we sit here and talk about how toxic and bad it is instead of talking about the good stuff that we actually do. Man, that's part of the problem. Again, like your brand is going to be bad if every day all you do is talk about how bad things are.

[Charlamagne tha God]

They got it wrong on the border.

[Jamie Harrison]

Oh, yeah. There are things that we should have done better on the border. Yes, I agree with you.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Do you think they got it wrong talking about Biden nomics when they know that people weren't feeling that in their pockets and they know that people weren't feeling that, you know, at the grocery store?

[Jamie Harrison]

I think what they should have done is what I said earlier, which is connecting the economics people to the economic stuff that they got done then. I think people would have felt better about it. Right. Because they know that this stuff is going on. Like, you know, on the stimulus checks. Like the Biden stimulus checks were far bigger than the stimulus checks coming under Donald Trump. He should have. And that's one of the things he regrets. He said, I wish I would have loved. And this is a lesson we should have learned in Obama, because you all remember when Obama was president, we passed that big stimulus bill and then all this money was flowing into all this other stuff, and Obama did not put. Didn't take credit for it. He did not take credit for it. So you would have thought then Democrats would have learned from 08 and 20 to do better, but we don't.

[Charlamagne tha God]

One thing we know, Democrats don't learn.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, we can be. We can be a bit hardheaded in that sense, but I'm hoping, and I think this new generation of Democrats that we have who are scrappier, who are willing to fight, willing to do what is necessary, will learn the lessons from.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It's just hard to believe y'. All. Jamie. Now, simply because we know what y' all watched the last four years. Even when I see somebody like Karine Jean Pierre come Out with her book. And I'm like, you sat up there and lied for him all of this time, and now you want to be honest and say you an independent. And it's the same. All of y' all did that for the last four years.

[Jamie Harrison]

Man, Charlamagne, I ain't lie about. I ain't lying about a damn thing.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, you ain't tell the truth. Well, what, you just kept quiet.

[DJ Envy]

Okay, don't let him talk to you like that. J.

[Jamie Harrison]

Come on, man.

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

Did you try to tell the truth? And they just didn't listen? Because I also saw that you said you were taking for granted you were a rubber stamp.

[Jamie Harrison]

So were you telling the truth?

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

And if so, what were you telling the truth about?

[Jamie Harrison]

Well, telling the truth about where we are, where the electorate was, things that we needed to do. I mean, when I tell you this job, in many ways, great opportunity to connect with folks, but also extremely frustrating because you can see the things. It's almost like you see a car wreck that's happening and you're yelling and screaming and it's like nobody's listening, Right? Because only again, the select few. There's people in the bubble who thought they know better. I give you a perfect example. I have here Ernie, who's helping me write my book. And I remember you all remember the January 6th and all. So the anniversary of January 6th was in 2022. And I wanted this ad. And after the show, I'll play it for you guys, this ad that really goes after the Republicans on January 6th. And I want the DNC to play this ad because, you know, I told the folks at the White House, I said, I want you all to know that black folks are watching how we handle this situation. Because we know if all those people who, who, who broke into the Capitol, beat the shit out of the police officers, defecated all over the walls and the floors, and did all this stuff, if those folks were black, it would have been the bloodiest day in the history of this nation.

[DJ Envy]

Absolutely.

[Jamie Harrison]

And I told the folks at the White House, my, my conduit, I said, black folks are watching. And how we Democrats handle the situation, are we going to be forceful in terms of pushing back against it and making sure that we hold people accountable for it, or are we going to brush it on the rug? And I was told when I had this ad and the ad was, it wasn't as hard, I knew that they wouldn't go for the real hard ad that I wanted. So it was sort of a mid level, but it went In a little bit, but a mid level ad. And they were like, well, we don't think the DNC needs to do that. We don't need to focus on that right now. And my pushback to them is, folks, I want you to understand this. Like, we are trying. We need to send a signal to our folks that we see you, we hear you, we're gonna fight for you. And just as hard as the Republicans are fighting against you, we're gonna be fighting for you like this. By brushing that under the rug and saying, well, we shouldn't talk about that right now. Let's talk about Biden nomics or something to that extent. I mean, that is sending a signal to our folks is that, you know, you really don't give a damn.

[DJ Envy]

Let me ask a question. What do you feel he's not being truthful about? Cause you said you didn't feel like he was being truthful.

[Charlamagne tha God]

What do you think he's not being truthful about? The condition that they know President Biden was in?

[Jamie Harrison]

No, man. Sean, I just fundamentally. You can ask anybody. You can ask my wife. I just fundamentally disagree with that. Like, it just pisses me.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It's hard for me to believe that it just pisses personalities like us who I've never met. Joe Biden, just watching him on television.

[DJ Envy]

They cancel me for that.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It's just crazy that all of us can come to this conclusion. But y' all were with him every day. I was calling for him to step down in 2023 for no other reason other than you will not win the election in November 2024.

[Jamie Harrison]

Charlemagne. Like, of course, like, I, I've been on record. He's old. I get it. He is old. He, he, he walks, you know, he's old.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It wasn't just about the age.

[DJ Envy]

It's not just about the age.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, but there's a lot of things, right? Like there's a perception that the DNC is too tied to corporate donors and specialists.

[Jamie Harrison]

That's bullshit, too. Okay, tell me. Pull the records, pull the receipts if we're tired. If we're tied to corporate donors, pull the receipts. How much money did we get from corporate donors?

[Charlamagne tha God]

A pack given to the Democratic Party.

[Jamie Harrison]

I don't know, because I never talked to APAC in my four years as DNC chair. Wow.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Okay. I just want to. How can the party claim the fight for working people while taking so much money from Wall street in Silicon Valley?

[Jamie Harrison]

Where, where do we.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Telling me that, that. Hold on. You're telling. You're gonna sit here right Now, I.

[Jamie Harrison]

Am telling politicians because, listen, you gave me a talking point, Charlemagne, but give me the receipt. Show me the amount of money that we have gotten from. From corporate donors.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Hold on, hold on. I can't believe you, Damon.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, show me that.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Hold on. Oh, hold on now.

[Jamie Harrison]

Mind you, the D. The DNC raised. The DNC coupled with campaign raised over a billion dollars. Tell me how much of that billion dollars that we got from corporate donors.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Hold on one second. Hold on one second.

[Jamie Harrison]

We hold it. We're holding.

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

I feel like we playing spades and somebody just renewed.

[Jamie Harrison]

Trying to find.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I have. I have it up. Hold on now. Combined spending on just congressional races in 2000.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, I'm saying the DNC. I'm not saying congressional races. I'm like DNC or Democrats. No, you said the DNC. What you said is Democrat. You said the DNC.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, I didn't. I said Democrats.

[Jamie Harrison]

Roll the tape.

[DJ Envy]

I don't know what he said.

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

I think he said y'.

[Jamie Harrison]

All. You said the dnc Democrat. Okay. No, because you're saying that the DNC is corporate.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So let me ask the question again. There's a perception that Democrat politicians are too tied to corporate donors and special interests.

[Jamie Harrison]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So how can the party claim to fight for working people while taking so much money?

[Jamie Harrison]

Well, there. There are some Democrats in Congress who do take corporate PAC dollars like they do, and in part of their fundraising, that happens. But. But when it, like, I can't control what individual members do. Right. But in the end of the day, you know, if these people are still passing health care and passing. They're not fighting for tax cuts for these wealthy corporations and all that, they're actually trying to increase the taxes on some of these folks. It's kind of hard to say that these people aren't fighting for their constituents, man. Right. So again, like, I can only control what I can control within my spirit. Right. I know what the DNC did and what I tried to push the DNC to do in my time, which is focus on working people, focusing on people like my grandparents, focusing on people like my aunts and my uncles and my cousins and nieces and nephews in South Carolina, trying to make life better for them. That's. That's the party that. That I was happy and proud to be the chair of.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Okay. Can I ask you this question?

[Jamie Harrison]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Was there a private deal between the DNC and the Harris campaign that you would cover $20 million in her bills?

[Jamie Harrison]

No. So. So basically. And I. I saw Shane's newspaper article. So looking at the finances for there are some joint finances between the DNC and a presidential campaign. When they come together, they create what was called a joint fundraising committee. So there's things, bills that they share. Right. So some polling, some advertising, some, some things so that they can jointly fundraise money. And that's. I know that your, your folks are going to get a little eyes glazed. That is because they form a joint fundraising committee because that allows them to raise more money collectively than they could as individuals. Right. It allows them, the dnc, to go to some of its, the donors who can write a million dollar check. Right. And then they send that money to the dnc. It's dispersed.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Are those corporate donors?

[Jamie Harrison]

No, they're individuals, folks. That.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So individuals can write million dollar checks?

[Jamie Harrison]

Yes. Okay. Individuals can write million dollar checks because the, the way that the finance laws. And that's something that we really need to take a look at, but the way the finance laws work is there's a certain amount that they can give to the dnc, there's a certain amount they can give to every state party, and all of that money is collective. And then we can use that money on behalf of the presidential candidate. So it's a joint fundraising committee. So that means. And sometimes they're joint fundraising expenses that come out of it, so expenses that we share. So coming off of Kamala's race, there were some things, some outstanding bills that we still had that were joint bills together between the DNC and the Commerce race. And our agreement was to pay the remaining of. Of some of those bills.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Was it 20 million?

[Jamie Harrison]

No, when I left, it was about 5. So now I can't speak about any other. Other whatever, but when I left, it was about $5 million, which in, in the grand scheme of things, $5 million is a lot for us as individuals. But in this campaign universe, do you.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Think we need to get corporate dollars?

[Jamie Harrison]

Yes.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Okay.

[Jamie Harrison]

I do believe, I do believe that we need massive. And we would have done that had we passed the, the John Lewis and all the other bills that Democrats voted unanimously for in the House. But we couldn't get it past the Senate because of filibuster, because of Manchin and Sinema. So I do believe that, Listen, I raised $132 million when I ran for U.S. senate. I mean, when I think about how much money that is and what that could have done in South Carolina, that's sinful. That amount of money, $132 million. I think we need to cap the amount that we use in our election no other country on the face of this planet spends as much money in campaigns as we do.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Is the DNC beholden to billionaires too much or just wealthy people in general?

[Jamie Harrison]

No.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I mean, because there's no, there's no working class person writing a million dollars.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, no. But the bulk of the money that the DNC raises is from folks who, giving 5 and $10. Like the sheer volume about probably about 30% of the DNC's money that it gets, it comes from major dollar donors. Right? People who can write 25,000 above the number of people who can write a million dollar check. Maybe it's 100, 200 people. Like, it's not, it's not a lot. And those people, basically, I've met with many of our large donors, they're not asking for anything policy wise because the DNC is not a policy arm. Like, we don't write policy at the dnc. The money that we use goes into the infrastructure of the party. And so many of those folks don't have any type of ask other than when. And we don't want to see Republicans take over.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Why am I getting your substack? Not even signed up for. Jimmy, What?

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

Did you give money to the dnc?

[Jamie Harrison]

Were you on my, Were you on my email list for my campaign? I mean, listen, we have.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I don't think there's nothing wrong with it.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, no. Well, listen, I, we work with substack on my list. Right. Basically, what I use was my campaign list. If you, if you subscribe to my campaign or you help my campaign out, remember? I mean, I have an email list of over 7 million people coming off of my campaign. That's because again, we've raised $132 million and a lot of people wanted to send Lindsey Graham home. And so now since I'm on substack now, since I got my ad and we haven't talked about At Our Table, the podcast. Make sure you go where the whole time. Yeah, wherever. Wherever you get your podcast, make sure you subscribe. But so basically, and I'm writing every week, every week I'm writing a piece about. Last week I wrote one about identity, the quote, unquote, identity politics. This week I have one on how the 2006 elections and the 2026 elections may mirror each other. So we're doing that on a weekly basis. So do you think if folks don't want it, just unsubscribe.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I mentioned APAC earlier, so I want to bring it up again. Do you think AIPAC and like Other powerful lobbies like that have too much influence over Democrat leaders. I think in the parties agenda.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, I think AIPAC has a lot of power over both parties. Right. Or people in both parties. Because I don't want to use the party as a whole as a label. There are people in the parties in which AIPAC is very influential on, in both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. And so, you know, organizations like that probably do have a little too much influence. And the only way that we curb that is to change the campaign finance laws in this country so that it is more grassroots focused and oriented and less about these big PACs that come up. I think one of the worst things was the Citizens United decision because it made it into a wild, wild west and allowed folks with who could raise these money, this money, unlimited influence to impact elections, to impact campaigns, to influence our members of Congress. So I mean, I think if Democrats can take back the House and the Senate, but also get past the filibuster, there's a big problem that we have right now is a lot of bills that we wanted to pass to curb some of the stuff you can't, because it gets filibustered in the U.S. senate.

[Charlamagne tha God]

If Democrats lose again in 2026 or 2028, should the party completely rethink its leadership structure, even the role of the DNC itself?

[Jamie Harrison]

I mean, I. Charlemagne. I mean, in the history of this country, you went. The DNCS, I think, is 170 years old. Like, you gonna win elections, you're gonna lose elections. I mean, winning elections and losing election, didn't something new that. That happens. Right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Different though, because you got some. You gotta admit, this is different.

[Jamie Harrison]

Okay? I mean, Donald Trump is different. Right. The question is, once Trump's gone, does it go back to the way that it has gone to the past? I don't. I mean, that's a big question. I don't know that. But one of the things I tell folks is, yes, there's an urgency of the moment, but, like, you can't freak out about like, all, you know, all hell's gone loose in terms of, like the parties and how they operate. Right. I do think there's some fundamental changes that need to happen. I think, you know, when I go back to the dnc, part of what I want to do is put some reforms in to separate out to give the DNC a wall between a presidential campaign and the dnc, or president and the dnc, because I think the DNC has to focus more not just on the White House, but on the entirety of the party. And I don't think we do that when we have the White House.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And I just want to ask you to be clear. So you said the DNC has never taken corporate dollars in the past.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, the dnc. I mean, I don't know if there is some.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No corporate PAC money.

[Jamie Harrison]

There may be some corporate PAC money.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, you said it wasn't.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, no, no. But you said that the DNC was controlled by corporate PAC money. If. If there is corporate PAC money, it's probably less than 5% of the money that.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No dark money influence. No, but what.

[Jamie Harrison]

What do you mean? Like, you throwing out buzzwords, but I don't know what you. How you mean.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I'm just asking a simple question. No, no. Taking any corporate pack money.

[Jamie Harrison]

DNC has taken corporate pack money in the past. I mean, all of the parties have taken corporate pet money. But when you look, you just mean.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That they're not controlled.

[Jamie Harrison]

They're not. They're not controlled by that. Right. Because if it's a small percentage, I mean, like, yeah, I can give you a dollar. That doesn't mean you're going to do what I told you for if. For that dollar. Because I know you're getting paid a whole lot more. Right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Gotcha.

[Jamie Harrison]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Well, if you want more of this, you can check out his new podcast at our table.

[Jamie Harrison]

At our table.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And also check out Jamie Harrison's documentary in the Bubble that I executive produced.

[Jamie Harrison]

Yes, you did.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Salute to Emily. Emily's in the building.

[Jamie Harrison]

Emily Harrell.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Emily Harrell.

[DJ Envy]

Clearly, she didn't want to be on camera, but.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Okay, I know I just shot it around. She ain't gonna put her on camera.

[Jamie Harrison]

Right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, sorry, Emily, it was a pleasure. Jamie, don't be a stranger.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, no. I would love to come back and when the book comes out, please do. But in Charlemagne, I do. I would love to have you, as my South Carolina homeboy, be a guest on. At our table. Let me ask you the questions.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I'd love to. I'd love to do it.

[Jamie Harrison]

Okay.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I enjoyed your conversation with Hunter Biden.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, it was good. Yeah, it was really good. And it was good to get Hunter unfiltered, and he had a lot to say. A lot to say. And. And I think he's a. You know, he's a good guy. He just. Yeah, And. And maybe. I don't. I don't know if. If it's just. Look, I had. I have family members who've had drug addiction issues and problems. Right. And they're very Honest. And they're very honest. They're very honest.

[Charlamagne tha God]

What are you saying?

[Jamie Harrison]

What?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Just say it, Jamie.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, no, I'm just saying honest. Oh, man.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Jesus Christ, dude, just say it. It's okay.

[Jamie Harrison]

Dude, come on.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It's okay.

[Jamie Harrison]

It's okay. What?

[Charlamagne tha God]

They are honest. Some of the most honest people. I've learned some of the best advice ever.

[Jamie Harrison]

Yeah, but, but. But we don't need to be, like, derogatory. You saying it in a fashion to be derogatory or. You know, sometimes folks just fall down. No, man. Come on, man. Sometimes people just fall down. Right? And. And it's. It's about all of us to help them get back up.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Absolutely right.

[Jamie Harrison]

But I'm not going to go around and be, like, derogatory to people I don't know.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I didn't know that was derogatory.

[Jamie Harrison]

Crack it. Crackhead.

[Charlamagne tha God]

What do else we call them?

[Jamie Harrison]

Crackhead. Yeah. You can call them addicts. Right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Addicts. Any worse, though, But Politico did an article saying there's a new memo that identifies 45 words and phrases for Democrats to avoid. What are your thoughts on this? Y' all don't speak plain.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, but. But. Come on now.

[DJ Envy]

Are these some of the words that they tell you you can't use?

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

Yep.

[Jamie Harrison]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Cisgender.

[Jamie Harrison]

Man, I don't know what. I don't know what half of that stuff is exactly. Neoliberal. I mean, they come up with all kinds of stuff.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Got you.

[Jamie Harrison]

But it's the academic part.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Addicts. I'm trying to figure it out. I want to. I want to learn the right thing to say.

[Jamie Harrison]

No, I'm a crack user. I don't know.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You don't want crack in it.

[Jamie Harrison]

You. You know how we use crackhead at home, how you use crackheads? I use. Come on, now.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Hey, man, get a crack at a couple dollars to come fix my car. Cut the grass. But that's not a bad thing. I said, I learned a lot from people who used to. How about this? I've learned a lot from people who used to use crack or have used crack.

[Jamie Harrison]

I just say, use drugs.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Jamie was Jamie. Wish he never came here.

[DJ Envy]

That's right. Jamie Harris, ladies and gentlemen, it's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Hold up. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up.

[Jamie Harrison]

The Breakfast Club.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Y' all finished or y' all done?

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult, but it happens all the time to people just like you and people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the hosts of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out. Trust Me. New episodes every Wednesday on Exactly right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Short on time, but big on true crime. On a recent episode of the podcast Hunting for Answers, I highlighted the story of 19 year old Lachey Dungy. But she never knocked on that door, she never made it inside, and that text message would be the last time anyone would ever hear from her. Listen to Hunting for Answers from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, it's Janae AKA Cheekies from Cheekies and Chill Podcast and I'm bringing you an all new mini podcast series called Sincerely, Janae. Sure, I'm a singer, author, businesswoman and podcaster, but at the end of the day I am human and that's why I'm sharing my ups and downs with you in real time and on the go. Listen to Chickies and chill on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Charlamagne tha God]

When your car is making a strange noise, no matter what it is, you can't just pretend it's not happening.

[Jamie Harrison]

That's an interesting sound.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It's like your mental health. If you're struggling and feeling overwhelmed, it's important to do something about it. It can be as simple as talking to someone or just taking a deep calming breath to ground yourself. Because once you start to address the problem, you can go so much further. The Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council have resources available for [e-mail].

[Podcast Promo Announcer]

This is an I Heart Podcast.