INTERVIEW: Gov. Wes Moore Talks Running For Reelection, National Guard, Big Beautiful Bill, Sean Duffy + More

Summary

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Summary: The Breakfast Club – Gov. Wes Moore Talks Reelection, National Guard, Big Beautiful Bill, Sean Duffy & More

Podcast: The Breakfast Club (iHeartPodcasts)
Air Date: October 21, 2025
Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God
Guest: Governor Wes Moore (Governor of Maryland)

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Overview

In this timely and candid episode, Maryland Governor Wes Moore joins The Breakfast Club to discuss his ongoing work as governor, navigating state challenges under the Trump administration, his reelection campaign, and bold policy initiatives. Moore addresses the current political climate, including national guard deployment threats and economic hardship, while emphasizing his commitment to tangible action rather than bureaucratic delay. The conversation, lively and occasionally humorous, serves as a snapshot of contemporary American state politics, leadership, and resilience.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Maryland's Response to Federal Challenges

[03:12–04:16]

• Moore describes Maryland as “moving different” from the rest of the country, highlighting proactive measures amid federal adversity:

  “No state’s taking it on the chin from this Trump administration like Maryland has.” – Wes Moore [03:18]

• He details federal worker layoffs, withdrawal of grants, and denial of disaster relief, underscoring Maryland’s independent economic growth and community uplift, despite “direct shots” from Washington.

[05:33–07:35]

• Maryland's employment and service pipeline strategies are outlined, including the “Feds to Eds” program (transitioning federal workers to education roles).
• Moore illustrates state-level actions (e.g., making public transportation free for unpaid federal workers, supporting Medicaid/SNAP/WIC despite federal cuts):

  “For all public transportation for federal workers, it’s free. Just show your federal government pass and you’re good.” – Wes Moore [07:31]

No Kings Protests & Bipartisan Support

[08:01–10:08]

• Moore interprets recent “No Kings” protests as a sign of public unrest with executive overreach, noteworthy for participation from historically conservative regions.
• He recounts unexpected Republican endorsements in his reelection, crediting pragmatic governance over partisanship:

  “In our time of need, the governor showed up ... the president nowhere to be found.” – Wes Moore [08:57]

Trump Administration Critique: Economy, China, and Authoritarianism

[10:05–12:08, 25:30–27:24]

• Moore directly criticizes Trump’s economic record, asserting ordinary Americans have suffered while “the Trump family and China have had a great streak for the past 10 months.” [10:19]
• Emphasizes U.S. global retreat and China’s proactive investment, linking it to rising domestic costs.
• Identifies Trump as a “vessel for the frustration” of Americans, but not a “vehicle for the solution” [27:43], calling for Democrats to engage more directly with public grievances.

Relationship with Trump and Federal Negotiation

[12:08–13:34]

• Moore is explicit in his willingness to work with anyone, “just bow down to no one” [12:26]. He criticizes the administration’s performative gestures, like National Guard deployments:

  “I have seen nothing but them using the Constitution like it’s a suggestion box.” – Wes Moore [13:20]

Militarization and Crime Policy in Maryland

[13:34–17:56]

• Moore, a former soldier, denounces the use of military for policing as “deeply performative” and harmful:

  “Municipal policing is not something our National Guards are trained for. I’m the commander in chief of the Maryland National Guard – I know what my guys are trained for and that’s not one of them.” – Wes Moore [15:43]

• Cites Maryland’s substantial reduction in violent crime since his tenure, with Baltimore homicide rates at record lows [14:52].
• Criticizes the administration for cutting funding to effective interventions while spending millions on National Guard deployments for political optics.

Civil-Military Relations & Loyalty Concerns

[17:56–25:47]

• Moore expresses deep concern over the blurring lines between military loyalty to the Constitution versus the Commander-in-Chief, referencing recent White House behavior:

  “The thing that is really challenging for a lot of people right now is this blurring of a line... about what orders are lawful and what orders are not.” – Wes Moore [23:27]

• Calls the federal use of military power “authoritarian,” not merely comedic, and acknowledges the possible dangers if military leaders prioritize presidential loyalty over constitutional duty [25:32].

Judicial System, Pardons, and Racial Justice

[27:45–31:26]

• Moore contrasts Trump’s use of pardons with his own, highlighting Maryland’s mass pardon of 175,000 cannabis convictions as a corrective to criminalization’s legacy:

  “You cannot—We cannot treat every sentence like a life sentence.” – Wes Moore [30:15]

• Critiques the perception that Democrats abandon their own while Republicans “take care of their people” [28:10], referencing uneven justice and political loyalty.

Redistricting and Democratic Fairness

[31:26–33:26]

• Moore addresses redistricting pressure, rejecting one-sided demands and advocating for fair mapping nationwide:

  “If these states are going to talk about, do they have a fair map, then you know what Maryland needs to decide: do we have a fair map too?” – Wes Moore [32:40]

• He slams gerrymandering across the country and calls for reforms to ensure competitive congressional seats.

Public Perception versus Policy Reality

[33:26–36:27]

• Despite a solid approval rating (54%), many Marylanders can’t specify Moore’s achievements.
• Moore lists advances in job growth, violence reduction, education, procurement for Black businesses, HBCU investments, and minimum wage increases.

  “I was the choice of the people ... and that’s always how I’m gonna ride for the people in Maryland.” – Wes Moore [36:25]

Key Bridge Disaster & Infrastructure Response

[36:28–39:23]

• Moore recounts the 2024 Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse, state response, and accelerated recovery:

  “We worked hard ... and we got it cleared in 11 weeks.” – Wes Moore [38:04]

• Praises bipartisan congressional support for full cost coverage and commits to continued rapid infrastructure progress.

On Reparations Commission and "Action over Studies"

[39:23–42:16]

• Defends his veto of a new study commission on reparations, citing “four studies over the past 20 years,” including one led by his wife.

  “I’m a person of action. I don’t need more studies ... we don’t need a two-year study right now, man. I need action.” – Wes Moore [39:39]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “No state’s taking it on the chin from this Trump administration like Maryland has.” – Wes Moore [03:18]
• “There are federal workers that are forcing to go to work and not paying them. So ... for all public transportation for federal workers, it’s free.” – Wes Moore [07:13, 07:31]
• “The Trump family and China have had a great streak for the past 10 months. The average American family, not so much.” – Wes Moore [10:19]
• “I will work with anyone. I will just bow down to no one.” – Wes Moore [12:20]
• “Municipal policing is not something our National Guards are trained for. I’m the commander in chief of the Maryland National Guard – I know what my guys are trained for and that’s not one of them.” – Wes Moore [15:43]
• "You cannot—We cannot treat every sentence like a life sentence." – Wes Moore [30:15]
• “I’m a person of action. I don’t need more studies ... I need action.” – Wes Moore [39:39]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:12–07:35] — Maryland’s resilience amid federal adversity and innovative job programs
• [08:01–10:08] — No Kings protests, bipartisan endorsements, and anti-authoritarian sentiment
• [10:19–12:08] — Trump’s policies benefiting few, foreign policy retreat, China’s rise
• [12:08–13:34] — Moore’s approach to federal negotiation, unwillingness to “bow down”
• [13:34–17:56] — Opposition to National Guard deployments in communities, Maryland’s crime reduction
• [17:56–25:47] — Concerns over civil-military relations under Trump, rise of authoritarianism
• [27:45–31:26] — Judicial system, political loyalty, Moore’s mass pardons policy
• [31:26–33:26] — Redistricting fairness and national gerrymandering issues
• [33:26–36:27] — Achievements in economic growth, education, and Black wealth
• [36:28–39:23] — Key Bridge collapse response and criticism from Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
• [39:23–42:16] — Reparations commission veto: rationale and alternative investments

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Tone and Style

The tone is urgent, combative, and unapologetically pro-action, with Governor Moore reacting to federal overreach, defending bold state-level decisions, and emphasizing community visibility. Banter between the hosts and Moore maintains a conversational, accessible air. Moore's direct and colloquial style ("I'm a person of action, I don’t need more studies," "You cannot ... treat every sentence like a life sentence") bridges political discourse with community realities.

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Conclusion

This episode presents Governor Wes Moore as a pragmatic, action-oriented leader deeply critical of federal policy drift and performative politics. His tenure is defined by resilience under adversity, rapid crisis response, and a focus on real-world results for Marylanders, particularly marginalized communities. The conversation is both a case study in responsive state governance and a reflection on American political challenges as national polarization and executive overreach deepen.

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Transcript

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

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[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Governor Wes Moore]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Short on time, but big on true crime. On a recent episode of the podcast Hunting for Answers, I highlighted the story of 19 year old Lashay Dungy. But she never knocked on that door. She never made it inside. And that text message would be the last time anyone would ever hear from her. Listen to Hunting for Answers from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

In early 1988, federal agents raced to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia.

[Governor Wes Moore]

We had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and you name it.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Five, six white people pushed me in the car. I'm going, what the hell?

[Governor Wes Moore]

Basically, your stay at home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

All you gotta do is receive the package.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Don't have to open it, just accept it. She was very upset, crying. Once I saw the gun, I tried to take his hand and I saw.

[Charlamagne tha God]

The flash of light.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

Listen to the Chinatown sting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or anywhere you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Hold up.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up.

[Charlamagne tha God]

The Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne, the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yes, indeed.

[DJ Envy]

This morning we got your governor. Jess, you already know Governor of Maryland, Governor West Moore.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Welcome.

[Governor Wes Moore]

It's good to be back. Back with my favorite constituent. What's up?

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

What's up? How you doing?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Y' all might be related. Y' all got the same last name.

[Governor Wes Moore]

I'm saying. Yeah, that's cousin.

[DJ Envy]

Yes.

[Charlamagne tha God]

If it's not, you should say it is.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

I always do. I always say it.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Makes sense.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

That's my cousin. And everybody loves Governor Westmoreland.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Oh, yeah, you can go ahead.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Period.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You ain't never asked for no part.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

No, I didn't. That was the conversation after this interview.

[DJ Envy]

Well, how are you feeling?

[Governor Wes Moore]

First and foremost, feeling great, man. Everything's great. Everything, Honestly, everything's good. It's like, you know, I say this, thank God we're in Maryland, you know, because I see everything that's going on around the country, and I see the. The fear, the frustration, and I see, like, Maryland's just moving different. Maryland's taking care of each other. There's no state that's taking it on the chin from this Trump administration like Maryland has. I mean, like, people forget, before this ridiculous federal government shutdown, Donald Trump had already fired over 15,000 Marylanders.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's right.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Who are federal workers. Pulled grants. I mean, you know, restricted any type of aid to our folks over in Western Maryland, despite having historic floods. Literally. When we put in for federal disaster relief, which we qualify for, they literally sent a message back saying, support for Maryland is not warranted.

[DJ Envy]

Wow.

[Governor Wes Moore]

That's it. So. But despite all that, we have some of the fastest job growth rates inside the entire country, one of the lowest unemployment rates in the entire country. We're making sure we're taking care of. Care of our fertile workers. We're making sure we're uplifting our community. So, listen, thank God we're in Maryland.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I use Maryland as an example all the time because I remember I was at my daughter's Chilean tournament back in, like, February, and the amount of people who were walking up to me who were concerned that they were either going to lose their jobs or they already had lost their jobs because of those was insane. So I can imagine what you get.

[Governor Wes Moore]

And, Charlie, it's crazy because, like, who are we talking about? We're talking about people who do things like make sure that our food is safe. Right. Make sure that our critical infrastructure is protected, make sure that veterans like myself who come back home and who need medication, that they're getting their medication. That's who they're choosing to go after first. And so looking at this assault that we have had on our. On our federal workers. And again, now we're talking about the only way that you're going to reopen a government is by cutting people off. Healthcare raising premiums by 95%. Healthcare is already too expensive, and now you're talking about raising premiums by 95% for folks like, this is crazy what's going on? And so Maryland, you know, in many ways, Maryland really does take it and have to take it. Like, these are not indirect blows. These are direct shots at me, indirect shots at us. We get it. But the thing that we're really focusing on is how can we make sure we're protecting our people and really diversifying our economy so we're not. We don't have to be as reliant on Washington, D.C. or who sits in an oval office.

[DJ Envy]

Break it down. Like, how are you getting through it? Cause there's governors and mayors that are having a hard time, but Maryland is making it through. So how is Maryland making it through? How are people finding jobs? How are people paying rent and car notes and putting food on their table? How are you guys doing it?

[Governor Wes Moore]

Well, one is, I think our folks realize, is that we're not bending the knee to nobody. Anybody who's sitting there saying, well, if you just be quiet, they'll stop. Or if you don't, if you don't push back. The. I'm like, listen, I. I don't. I don't know, a situation where it's like, listen, if you just be quiet, they'll stop beating you. Like, that's never happens. Never. And so the thing that we're doing, we're just being. We're being aggressive about what it means to protect our people. So, for example, with our federal workers, we've made sure that there are pipelines for our federal workers to be able to get available and essential state jobs or private sector jobs. We. We started something called feds to EDs where we knew that Maryland, as well as many other states has a teacher shortage right now. So I'm saying if I got someone who's working for the federal government who is interested and qualified, get them certified, get them trained, get them in a classroom as quickly as possible so we can both address the teacher shortage as well as making sure that they're getting employment. That alone we've now seen since I've been the governor. We have closed that teacher shortage, we have by 25%. And a lot of that is because of these federal workers who are now coming on board. We have federal workers who they are forcing to go to work, which is. This is crazy. There are federal workers that are forcing to go to work and not paying them. So we got folks in Maryland who are working and not Getting paid. We got politicians in Washington who are paid and not working. And so.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And we still gotta pay taxes and.

[Governor Wes Moore]

We still gotta pay taxes on them while they're not doing anything.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Right.

[Governor Wes Moore]

And so for federal workers who are now for forced to go to work and they're taking public transportation, they're paying for public transportation despite not getting a paycheck. So what did I do? I said for all public transportation for federal workers, it's free.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Wow.

[Governor Wes Moore]

It's free. Just show your federal government pass and you're good.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Wow.

[Governor Wes Moore]

So it's like, so we are making sure we're being aggressive. We were said we're as long as we can, we're going to cover down on Medicaid, snap, wic, despite the fact that the federal government is now cutting it off from our states. I'm saying that in the state of Maryland, we're going to make sure that our people are protected and our people are taken care of. So I tell our folks, man, while Washington is telling this country, you're on your own in Maryland, we tell our people, we leave no one behind.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I wanted to ask you about the no Kings protests that were happening this weekend. In your view, what does the level of turnout say about public sentiment toward executive power in America today?

[Governor Wes Moore]

Well, I tell you, one of the things I was really taken by, it's not even just the numbers, it's the where some of the biggest no Kings turnouts that we had in our state were in rural parts of our state, conservative parts of our state. And I think about it this way, man, where it's like, you know, for example, when we just announced our reelection two weeks ago, some of the first people that came out and endorsed us were actually Republican lawmakers. Republican lawmakers in western Maryland, because they were like at a time, and these are places that voted for Donald Trump by 75, 77, 78%. But they were like, but listen, in our time of need, the governor showed up, we were some of the first boots on ground when they had historic flooding out in western Maryland. The president nowhere to be found, that we actually invested millions of dollars to make sure that they could get furnaces. Because I'm telling you right now, we're talking about some of the coldest parts of our state and people who do not have furnaces, people will lose their lives. This winter. We put in millions of dollars from the state to make sure they're good. The president support for Maryland is not warranted.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Because of you. Because of you.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Exactly. I know, I know.

[Charlamagne tha God]

My bad.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Y' all my bad. But it's like, but, but the point is, it's like, so when you're going out there and you're seeing no Kings protests, when you're seeing them like, listen, this is, is this about, you know, is this about rule of law? It's about rule of law. Is it about you came in and you say you make things more affordable and we said how energy prices have risen by 20% since he's been the president, that these terrorists are making everything from the clothes that we're wearing to the food that we're, the food that we're eating more expensive. Yeah. But you know what it's also about you keep breaking your promises, man. Everything you said that you were gonna do, they are now waking up and realizing he never cared about you. That's right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

He's, he promised he economic change on day one.

[Governor Wes Moore]

For him, it happened. He had great economic change. He has been, I tell you, the two greatest beneficiaries of the Trump administration so far have been the Trump family and China.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Ooh.

[Governor Wes Moore]

The Trump family and China have had a great streak for the past 10 months. Why China?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Because it seemed like they've been, they've had like issues.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Because when American leadership pulls back, who's helping to fill up the vacuum? Got you that. Oftentimes when you're talking about our foreign policy, this, this really is a, a larger battle between the US And China. China being one of the fastest growing economies over a period of the past 20 years. China being a country that is always pushed and reflected and said like, we want to make sure that we're having our proper respect. And the United States, who in many ways is kind of like this upstart, you know, they're like the startup in the globe. You know, we're about to celebrate 250 years. China's like 250 years like that, that's, that's, that's a blink of an eye when he, when it comes to Chinese history. But also look at what has now happened as the U. S. Has pulled away from things like foreign aid and support in everywhere from Africa to South America. Who's helped to fill in that building? China. Yeah, right. Who has helped to come in when we're having conversations about, about, about new resources and energy supports. Right. And coming up with long term energy supplies. When you have the Trump administration, who, who's pulling away from increasing energy supplies, which by the way is making energy prices more expensive on everybody. I believe that we should be investing in solar and wind and Nuclear and all the energy technologies that can help to make energy prices more affordable, because when you increase supply, you then can be able to decrease cost. Donald Trump is simply saying, like, nah, we're not doing any of that stuff. You know what that's going to do. It continues to drive energy prices up. Do you know who is investing in those new technologies? China. So listen, the Trump family in China have done very, very well over the past 10 months. The average American family, not so much.

[DJ Envy]

We had a bunch of candidates up here, mayoral candidates from New York and governors from Jersey, and everybody talks about their relationship or wanting to work with Trump. Is that even an option with you?

[Governor Wes Moore]

Listen, I'm very clear, man. I will work with anyone. I will just bow down to no one.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Mm.

[Governor Wes Moore]

I'm not built that way. Like, I'm always gonna fight for my. Like, the people of my state, they understand. Like. Like, I'm not. I don't come from a political world. I don't come from a political family. I don't come from a political background. I'm a soldier. That's who I am. That's how I'm built. And so if someone is trying to do something that's going to benefit the people of my state, if someone's trying to do something that's gonna benefit my community and my people, then. Then I'm always interested in being able to find ways of working together, so on and so forth. The problem is, I have seen nothing from this administration that shows there's an interest in that. I have seen nothing but shots at us. I've seen nothing but talk about how you're gonna send National Guards into my communities. I've seen nothing but them turning down federal aid and federal supports that is justified and necessary for the people of my state. I've seen nothing but them using them except using the Constitution like it's a suggestion box. So, you know, if you want to have a real conversation about being able to help the people of Maryland and lift us up and continue the trajectory that we've been on since my administration has come on board, I'm always down to have that conversation.

[DJ Envy]

Now, as a former soldier, talk about the negative things about having soldiers put into the community.

[Governor Wes Moore]

There are so many problems with this, and it's so deeply performative. And here's the thing that gets me on a couple fronts. If he wants to have a real conversation about making our community safer, I'm here for that. I'm being very clear. There is no higher priority for me than making sure that our Communities are safe. I think about what's happened in Maryland. In Maryland, for the eight years before I became the governor, we saw the homicide rate nearly double. The non fatal shooting rate did double Baltimore City. The year before I became the governor In 2022, we had almost a homicide a day. And so when we came on board, I said, I am not going to be a governor that's going to sit there and give eulogies and give thoughts and prayers and not do a damn thing about actually making our community safer. So what do we do? I started working with Mayor Scott. I started working with local. Sorry, Mayor Scott, Mayor Baltimore. I started working with local law enforcement. I started working with county executives around the state. I started actually, we made historic investments in predictive analytics and technologies and community violence intervention groups, campaigns, community violence interruption groups. And the results have been this. In the past two and a half years, we have seen how Maryland has had amongst the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in the United States of America. Amongst the fastest drops in property crime anywhere in the United States of America. The homicide rates in the state of Maryland since I've been the governor are down nearly 25% that we have seen in Baltimore City. The last time the homicide rate was this low in Baltimore City, I wasn't born yet.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Wow.

[Governor Wes Moore]

That's the kind of drops we've seen. And now, despite that, the President's talk about how we have children who are natural born killers and he's now going to send the National Guard in our community. I'm like, first of all, your 1980s Archie Bunker mentality mindset is not going to fly because it goes against all data that's actually happening and the momentum we're actually seeing. But the other thing about it is this man is that like, I know what it's like for these soldiers. I know what it's like to put on the uniform. I know what it's like to say goodbye to your family. I deployed, I led soldiers overseas in Afghanistan. And so for him to continue to have this fetish of military uniforms like it's a child, where he's going to ask these men and women to do something that he was never willing to do. Say goodbye to your family. And to go to deploy and to do operations and missions that a they, you know, municipal policing is not something our National Guards are trained for. I'm the commander in chief of the Maryland National Guard. I know my guys are trained for and that's not one of them. And I also know that if you look at what's happening in Washington, D.C. and the, and the deployments that they're having. You know, I can tell you that these National Guards, men and women, these citizen soldiers who are giving up their lives because they trust their commander in chief, have taken more selfies than they've made arrests. They painted more fences and picked up more trash than they've actually done drug busts. So what are we talking about right now? This is what the president is doing and Hegseth and all these guys. It is just, it's performative, it's offensive. It's offensive to our communities. It's offensive to these military personnel. It's offensive to their families. Because you're now asking to leave their families and to do what?

[Charlamagne tha God]

And nobody ever asked him, what's the long term solution? Like, what's the long term solution? Never for crime prevention. Okay, you're doing this now, but what's.

[Governor Wes Moore]

The long term plan if he wants to have a serious conversation? I would love for the president states, and I'm not holding my breath on this, to have a serious conversation about policy because, listen, I tell them, you know what I would love to do? I know for myself and the mayor and our county executives, we'd love to talk to you about banning block switches and the ability to turn these Glocks into automatic weapons. We'd love to have a conversation about banning ghost guns. We'd love to have a conversation with you about additional ATF and FBI resources and supports. I'd love to have a conversation with you about LPR's license plate readers, so that can help to actually track down crime. I'd love to have a conversation with you about stop cutting the funding that was coming to our communities for community violence intervention groups that were actually on the ground doing the work. But he's not interested in that. But what he is interested in doing is he'll cut funding for stuff that's actually working, but then ask the American taxpayer to pay over a million dollars a day so they can watch National Guard take selfies.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Are you concerned? Like when you saw the meeting that, you know, Secretary of War Pete Hecseff and President Trump had with the US Military generals and admirals. Are you concerned that some of those generals and admirals may go along with him and pledge loyalty to him and not the Constitution?

[Governor Wes Moore]

Yeah, you know, it's the, I remember I'm on a, I'm on a bunch of different, like, group chats, things with a lot of military folks who I serve with and people are still in. And I remember getting one from a buddy of mine and he said, listen, I've oftentimes disagreed with the Commander in Chief. Not often am I embarrassed by him. Wow. Because I'm embarrassed.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Wow.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Because there's just a lack of seriousness that he and the first thing you.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

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[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

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[Podcast Host / Narrator]

All I know is what I've been told and that to half truth is a whole lie.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story I'm telling you.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

We know Quincy killed her.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[Governor Wes Moore]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

From Lava for Good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[Governor Wes Moore]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

It's Ana Ortiz and I'm Mark and Delicato. You might know us as Hilda and Justin from Ugly Betty. We played mother and son on the show, but in real life, we're best friends and I'm all grown up now. Welcome to our new podcast, Viva Betty. Can you believe it has been almost 20 years? That's not even possible. Well, you're the only one that looks that much different. I look exactly the same. We're rewatching the series from start to finish and getting into all the fashions, the drama, and the behind the scenes moments that you've never heard before. You're going to hear from guests like America Ferreira, Vanessa Williams, Michael Urie, Becky Newton, Tony Plana, and so many more icons. Each and every one. All of a sudden, like, someone like, comes running up to me and it's Salma Hayek. And she's like, you are my Ugly Betty. And I was like, what is she even talking about? Listen to Viva Betty as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Exeter are taking on this. There is, you know, and one thing I always say is that, listen, as soldiers, we know our job, we know our oath. We took an oath to the Constitution and always protect and defend people against all enemies of this country, foreign and domestic. And we took an oath that we would always honor all lawful orders of the President of the United States. The thing that is really challenging for a lot of people right now is this blurring of a line that we are seeing from this White House about what orders are lawful and what orders Are not.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And we've seen it in other countries. Like, we've seen it in Germany. We've seen it happen in Germany. We've seen it happen in, you know, Russia and the Stalin, like, what if just say, 30, 40% of those military people say, you know what, we go ride with the President?

[Governor Wes Moore]

Yeah, no, let's say what I think this is. And this. This is where. This is where we know that we are in a really complicated and dangerous place. You know, I take my role as commander in chief of the Maryland National Guard very seriously. I take my commitment to these men and women. I take my commitment to their families. I take it very serious. It's the reason that, you know, we have. We have done everything from, you know, having the largest tax cut to military veterans and. And younger military veterans in Maryland's history, that we have double the amount of leave that they have so they can stop using their PTO on things like military training if they're a state worker. It's the reason that we have made Maryland the first state in the country that now has a pathway to free dental care and health care for. For members of our National Guard, because I don't know how someone can wear the uniform of this country and have to worry about their dental care. So there's a whole lot. And our military communities know that I ride for them. But knowing that we are getting this type of. This type of, you know, almost like comedic effort at leadership on our national side about the usage, about the serious and frankly, the very sobering usages of our military personnel in. Is deeply disturbing. I would.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I would call it an authoritarian effort.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

As opposed to a comedic effort. And I was gonna ask you, like, when you. When you think about the no Kings protest, what do you think about the framing and, like, is there a responsibility for an elected leader to address, like, the perceptions of authoritarianism, whether it's, you know, real or perceived?

[Governor Wes Moore]

Yeah, I mean, I. I think there is. And I think people. And I think people are seeing it. I think people are seeing it in. In. In their own real lives. And I think people. And here's the point, too, is that if people thought that this was benefiting their life, this would be one thing, Right. If people are like, listen, we had to clean things up, and we had to make sure that government worked, and we had to. And. But you know what? I'm watching my prices go down. I'm watching my education. My education system being better. I'm watching transportation assets being built. I'm watching all this stuff that'd be one thing, but no one is arguing that. Everybody's just saying, wait a second. So we're seeing all this authoritarian takeover, but what I'm also saying is my energy prices keep going up. We're seeing this takeover. But what I'm also seeing is we're now seeing books that are being banned and things that I can't teach and things that I can't lead. We're seeing this takeover. And you know what? All my neighbors are losing their jobs.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah.

[Governor Wes Moore]

And so they're like, so what exactly is this? And what exactly is the point? And it goes back to the thing that I really believe about Donald Trump. And frankly, one of the challenges we had with the Democratic Party is Donald Trump was a great vessel for the frustration.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Absolutely.

[Governor Wes Moore]

He could tell you what is wrong. He could tell you who was to blame. He could tell you, you know what? They screwed this thing up. And oftentimes we, the Democrats, were kind of sitting there like, well, you know, well, it's not true. And things aren't that bad. It's like, guys like, you have to understand what people are actually feeling right now. Right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Put your boots on the ground.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Put your boots on the ground. If you spend your time in communities, you will understand the frustration that people are feeling. So that Trump being the vessel for the frustration made sense. It allowed that him to rise inside this place. But I think people are very quickly realizing that he was a vessel for the frustration. But. But he's not a vehicle for the.

[DJ Envy]

Solution at all to piggyback on what Charlamagne says. So how do you look at the judicial system now?

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Right.

[DJ Envy]

You see Trump, people get arrested, and Trump's like, that's my guy. I'm a part of him. And everything he has is wiped off, you know, oh, that's my guy. You ain't gotta pay no money back. It's wiped off. It makes me look at it two ways. One, nothing serious. And two, it makes me feel like sometimes when the Democrats have a guy that went down for something, that's maybe not just that we just leave our people hanging, or I should say they just leave their people hanging.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, we saw that with Marilyn Mosby.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Yeah, 100%.

[DJ Envy]

So how does that make you feel when you look at the judicial system and you look at, you know, somebody that you helped tried to get in office, whether it was Biden on his second term, and then you see how they take care of their people.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah.

[Governor Wes Moore]

You know, I remember when I first. When I first came in the. I ended up winning with more individual votes than anyone who'd ever run for governor in the history of the state of Maryland, despite literally starting at 1%. Like, I don't come from any political background at all. Only one thing beat me on the ballot that year, and that was cannabis. So I was like, yo, who is cannabis and how they so popular? But the same time that I was like, definitely voted for cannabis.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Governor Wes Moore]

But the same time that I was, I was elected governor of Maryland. Maryland voted to have a recreational cannabis market. So I said, okay, so we're gonna make sure that it's rolled out in a safe and a smooth and an equitable way. And at the same time, there is no way that I'm going to celebrate the benefits of legalization if we do not address the consequences of criminalization. So we got to work, and I ended up signing the largest mass pardon in the history of the United States of America. When I pardoned over 175,000 misdemeanor cannabis convictions in the stroke of a pen. And saying, like, you know, you cannot. We cannot treat every sentence like a life sentence. Where we got a new billion dollar market in the state of Maryland, but I got people who can't get a barber's license, right? That was how we can utilize the power of the pardon in a way that actually supports the people, in a way that actually helps to right some of these wrongs that have been taking place before. There's a very humble responsibility that I know I take where I'm one of 51 people on the planet that have the ability to pardon, right? All of our state's governors and the President of the United States, those are the only ones that have the ability to look at somebody and say, we are going to forgive you of the past issue you might have been involved with. We're going to make sure we can clean up your record, to make sure we can give you a second chance at life. It's a very unique power. And I think about Donald Trump, man, and the first thing that he did when he got back into office this time was pardon the people on January 6th. There is just so everything that I'm seeing right now, none of it surprises me because the man told you who he was and who he was gonna fight for. And so I think that, you know, I'm thankful that we have a legal system in some cases that is helping to hold the line. I'm thankful that we have judges that are actually honoring the law and not bending the knee. Yet at the same time, you know, this weaponization of our legal system that we continue to see. And frankly, this, you know, this very loose way that he is using the very specific and powerful ability to pardon, I think is more just a continuation of the case.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I got three more questions because I know you got. You want. Okay. How are you handling the pressure you're facing to redistrict Maryland?

[Governor Wes Moore]

Well, I'm very clear. Listen, Maryland, if we have this country and we have Donald Trump, who is picking and choosing which states should redistrict, and people remember why we're even having this conversation, right? The reason why we're having this conversation is because what issue is Donald Trump going to run on in midterm elections?

[Charlamagne tha God]

You're right.

[Governor Wes Moore]

I made all your prices higher, right? I fired a bunch of people and driven up the unemployment rate. We've made our communities less safe. But, hey, vote for me. You're not gonna win on that. So what do you do? You change the rules. You rig the game. Frankly, it's very. It's a simple continuation of what this man has done his entire life. Right? And so my point is this. If Donald Trump is calling individual states and individual Republican states and saying, I need you to find me a congressperson here. I need you to do this. I need you to find me a fair map, then my point is this. If all these states are gonna have conversations about, do they have a fair map? So will Maryland. You have to.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You got to fight fire with fire. The Vice president, former Vice President Kamala Harris, said it last week, you got to fight fire with five.

[Governor Wes Moore]

If these states are going to talk about, do they have a fair map? Then you know what Maryland needs to decide, do we have a fair map, too? That's right. Do we have a fair map? And I can tell you right now, if you look at the. Our congressional districts and people talk about, I don't like gerrymanning. I hate gerrymandering. I think it's ridiculous. I think it's ridiculous right now that less than 10% of all congressional seats are actually competitive. The average congressperson ends up winning by like 20, 30, 40 points. So all you gotta do is make it past the primary and you're good. Right? So this entire system is gerrymandered right now. And so if we are gonna talk about what does it mean to have fair maps and what does it mean to have systems where people can actually be heard and represented, and you have people choosing the representatives and not representatives choosing their people, then you know what? Add Maryland to that list. So you should have that conversation too.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Absolutely. And the Baltimore Banner reported that you have a 54% approval rate, but voters can't identify any of your accomplishments.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Governor.

[Charlamagne tha God]

How do you plan to rectify that by the time the elections roll around?

[Governor Wes Moore]

Well, you know, here's the thing. I think they say they like you.

[DJ Envy]

But they don't know what you did.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Vibes. That's actually kind of fire. I like that. Vibes. No, but you know what though, but here's the thing that I think the people of our state know is that when we first came on board, we had, we were 43rd in the country in unemployment. Right now we are now going on having amongst the lowest unemployment rates in the entire country, one of the fastest job growth rates in the entire country. And that's over the past year and a half, despite watching the assaults that we've seen from the federal government that we have seen in our state, that we went from having amongst the highest violent crime rates inside the entire country to now having amongst the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in, in the United States of America. That we have been able to create, make Maryland the first state in the country that has a service year option for all of our high school graduates. That we've been able to make Maryland a state that has the first state based placed place led initiative to address the issue of childhood poverty. That we have been able to actually do procurement reform and now creating over $800 million for black owned businesses inside of the state of Maryland. That we have made investments over $1.4 billion to Maryland's HBCUs at a time when the federal government is pulling back from our HBCUs. The, that we have actually raised a minimum wage and made it easier for working people to be able to survive and exist within our society. That we have actually, we have actually had tax cuts for the middle class in Maryland, tax cuts for military veterans in the state of Maryland. And yes, I asked wealthy Marylanders, millionaires to pay a little bit more to help to make sure that we can have the best public schools inside the entire, inside of the entire country. So I think that people see that we're doing the work. I think people see and are happy about the fact that Maryland is really leading the charge. People see that, you know, they got a, they got a governor who's, who's standing on the wall and who's going to fight for him. And I, and I, and I appreciate the fact that we're still, you know, amongst one of the most popular Democratic governors in the country.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But it is Something to say for, you know, people to like you just because you bring them joy.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Yes.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I did not know anything that you've.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Done, but I like them unapologetic joy. And we're out in the communities, like I'm telling you. And Jess knows, like, I've got this reputation being governor outside, because they're like, he's everywhere. We're out in the community. We are out with the people and listen. And I think that's what people have come to not just appreciate about us, but expect from us, is that, you know, when I. When I first came out and when people said, again, when people were like, well, you know, you were not the Democratic, Democratic Party's real choice when you first decided you want to run, the answer was, I wasn't. I was the only person who never run for office for my life. I was running against statewide elected officials. I ran against the former head of the Democratic Party. And we ended up winning because I wasn't the choice of the party. I was the choice of the people. And that's always how I'm gonna ride for the people in Maryland.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I wanna ask you this, okay?

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

The Francis Scott Key Bridge.

[DJ Envy]

Right.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Cause I saw that you got some criticism from the US Transportation Secretary, Sean P. Duffy.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Duffy. Yeah. Sean P. Duffy.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

About what he's saying.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Sean P. Duffy.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

The way you're handling it. He didn't really like that.

[Governor Wes Moore]

P. Duffy.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I like what you're doing. You picking up what I'm putting down.

[Governor Wes Moore]

You're picking up what I'm putting down.

[DJ Envy]

I like that.

[Governor Wes Moore]

I like that. That's his name.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yes.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Yeah. And here's the thing. I mean, I remember my grandfather used to tell me, don't let someone take something away from you that they never gave you in the first place.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Yeah.

[Governor Wes Moore]

You know, a little over a year ago, we had one of the most traumatic moments in our state's history where, you know, a ship the size of three football fields slammed into, you know, our Francis Scott Key Bridge. Yeah. And we lost six workers. People who fell, who were fixing potholes, who fell 180ft into dark, cold waters and lost their lives. And how that first morning when they were like, when I was asking the workers, because we're, you know, on the ground immediately, and I said, how long do you think it's going to take for us to clean up this channel? Because the Port of Baltimore is responsible for about 13% of my state's economy. And they says, you know, governor's probably going to take about 11 months. I said, that's the wrong answer. And we worked hard, we worked together and we got it cleared in 11 weeks.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Wow.

[Governor Wes Moore]

When they told me the permitting for a bridge of that size, that means we're talking like a two mile long bridge. Permitting alone could take two and a half years. We got it done in months. We are making historic progress on something like this. And if you look at a bridge like the Gordie Howe Bridge, for example, you know, they started that in 2007 about the same size bridge. It's still not done. And we're talking 20, close to 20 years. And I have said we will rebuild the Francis Scott Key Bridge on our time and I'm not going to get distracted by foolishness. And so our people are moving at historic speed to be able to get this bridge back up, to be able to restore confidence in government and restore confidence in what we can do and actually get done. So I appreciate the commentary that we got from Sean P. Duffy and the President on this. But the thing I will say is this, is that we're gonna do our job and we're gonna make sure we're gonna make the people of Maryland and make the people of this country proud. And I'm really thankful that Congress, bipartisan, Republicans and Democrats in Congress were the ones who approved the 100% cost share because, you know, we're currently in litigation. The American people are gonna be made whole on this. And I'm thankful to Congress because they are the ones that appropriated the money.

[Charlamagne tha God]

This is my last question. You know, I want you to talk about this because, you know, I saw you get a little flack because you vetoed a measure to create a commission to study potential slavery reparations in the state of Maryland. But to me, you had a valid reason if people actually heard your whole statement.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Exactly. I mean, listen, what I, what I said was, I'm a person of action. I don't need more studies. I mean, like we have, we have, we have, we have done, we've done four studies over the past 20 years on similar type of elements. One, seven. So four, four studies over the past 20 years.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Okay, okay.

[Governor Wes Moore]

By the way, one of which my wife worked on. And so when we're now talking about doing a two year study on something that I already know the answer to, I'm like, what are we studying? And this was my point, I think, about the work. And again, I'm not saying that this issue was not worth working on. In fact, frankly, I've been working very closely with the members of our caucus and members of the community around a whole series of these issues. It's the reason that we just authorized $400 million for our just Community initiative, which made sure that we're putting $400 million of additional capital into communities that have been the subject and have been truly hurt by racist and discriminatory policies, things like redlining, things like mass incarceration, things like, you know, things like mass highway constructions which were cutting off neighborhoods that we said we are going to identify all those communities and neighborhoods and we're starting off with just $400 million that's going specifically to those neighborhoods to address the racist policies of the past. It's the reason that we've done things like historic investments in our HBCUs because they've been historically neglected and pulled back on. Maryland has four remarkable HBCUs. We're putting historic investments back into them. It's the reason we've done things like the mass pardons and giving people a second chance at life. Because who do people think that that is going to benefit most? It's the reason that we've done things like procurement reform and created black millionaires inside of the state of Maryland. I am unapologetic about the support for our black community, for the support for black people who oftentimes have been the fabric and the backbone for so much of our society. And I know right now, when we are watching this assault, this assault on our communities, when we're watching, you know, the Trump administration now is fire into firing more black women than we have seen in a generation, that we have now seen our insurance being pulled away, grants going to entrepreneurs, that everything that is connected to diversity, equity, inclusion that they are making illegal. We don't need a two year study right now, man. I need action. I need action. And so that was the point that we were trying to make, is that in this time, in this crisis moment, I don't need a study.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Let's get to it.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Let's get to it.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Absolutely.

[DJ Envy]

That's right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Absolutely.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Let's get on with it.

[DJ Envy]

We appreciate you for joining us. Running for reelection in 2026.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

My cousin.

[DJ Envy]

Governor Westmore, thank you for joining us, brother.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Appreciate y'. All. Thank you.

[DJ Envy]

Breakfast Club, good morning.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Every day I wake up, Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Governor Wes Moore]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcast.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Short on time, but big on true crime. On a recent episode of the podcast Hunting for Answers, I highlighted the story of 19 year old Lachey Dungey. But she never knocked on that door. She never made it inside. And that text message would be the last time anyone would ever hear from her. Listen to Hunting for Answers from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Sami Gente. It's Ana Ortiz and I'm Mark and Delicato. You might know us as Hilda and Justin from Ugly Betty. Welcome to our new podcast, Viva Betty.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Yay.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

We're rewatching the series from start to finish and talking to iconic guests like Betty herself, America Ferrera. There was this moment when the glasses went on and it was like, this is our Betty. Listen to Viva Betty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

In early 1988, federal agents raced to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

Five, six white.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

People pushed me in the car. I'm going, what the hell?

[Governor Wes Moore]

Basically, your stay at home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

All you gotta do is receive the package.

[Governor Wes Moore]

Don't have to open it, just accept it. She was very upset, crying. Once I saw the gun, I tried to take his hand and I saw the flash of light.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

Listen to the Chinatown sting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

This is an iHeart podcast.