INTERVIEW: Jarrett Adams On Being Wrongfully Convicted, 'Redeeming Justice,' Mental Well-Being, Prison Reform

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club

Episode: INTERVIEW: Jarrett Adams On Being Wrongfully Convicted, 'Redeeming Justice,' Mental Well-Being, Prison Reform

Date: December 18, 2025
Host(s): Charlamagne Tha God, Lauren LaRosa
Guest: Jarrett Adams, Civil Rights Attorney & Justice Reform Advocate

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Overview

This compelling episode of The Breakfast Club features Jarrett Adams, who shares his journey from being wrongfully convicted at 17, spending nearly a decade behind bars, to later becoming a lawyer and advocate for justice reform. Adams discusses his memoir "Redeeming Justice," the failings of the criminal justice system, the importance of mental health care for the formerly incarcerated, high-profile wrongful conviction cases, and actionable steps listeners can take towards justice reform.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jarrett Adams’ Story: From Wrongful Conviction to Legal Advocate

• Wrongfully convicted at 17, Adams spent almost 10 years in prison before his conviction was overturned with help from the Wisconsin Innocence Project.
• Inside prison, he observed a disproportionate number of young men of color incarcerated (04:00–04:52).
• Motivation: Adams resolved not only to avoid going back to prison but to help others escape or avoid the system (04:40–04:52).

2. The Ongoing Impact of His Experience

• Adams still carries those past experiences into the courtroom:

  "There's a bit of, you know, y' all tried to murk me. You tried to take me out... I'm walking through swinging arms like George Jefferson..."
  — Jarrett Adams (05:02–05:34)

• He balances pride with humility, driven by the reminder of systemic injustice.

3. Choosing Clients & The Power of Story

• Adams shares how personal experience and empathy initially influenced him to take many cases—sometimes to his own detriment (05:49–07:05).
• His organization, Life After Justice, now strategically selects cases likely to impact broader change, not just individual freedom (07:00).

4. The Bentz Brothers Case & Compensation Issues

• Discussed working on the case of two white brothers wrongfully imprisoned 27 years, ultimately exonerated by DNA evidence (07:11–08:19).
• Despite decades lost, Wisconsin law capped their compensation at $25,000—until Adams’ efforts helped secure them a $1 million payout (08:19).

5. Emotional Toll & Mental Health

• Adams is an outspoken advocate for therapy, detailing his own ongoing counseling to process unresolved trauma from his incarceration (08:30–10:37):

  "Sometimes, man, you have to go and decompress so that way you can have the right state of mind to respond to all the stresses that the world has to offer."
  — Jarrett Adams (10:28–10:37)

6. Memoir Writing & Family

• Writing "Redeeming Justice" took three years and is dedicated to the family who supported him during incarceration, highlighting the toll on loved ones, not just the incarcerated person (11:02–12:23):

  "We're going to acknowledge that they've incarcerated your bodies, but we will never let them imprison your mind."
  — Jarrett Adams (12:04–12:12)

• Adams receives daily bible verses and encouragement from his aunts and mother.

7. Encouraging Mental Health for Formerly Incarcerated

• Adams illustrates how difficult it is to get clients to seek therapy after prison, recounting stories that demonstrate the deep psychological wounds incarceration leaves (12:51–14:00).

8. How the System Is “Rigged”

• Money and race are still deciding factors in legal outcomes (14:00–16:09):

  "We have a system that depends on who you know and what you have. And it will determine your result."
  — Jarrett Adams (14:15–14:22)

• Advocates for focusing on change at the state level, empowering grassroots activists, and being strategic about judicial elections (15:23–15:56).

9. Challenges with Public Narratives: The Mysonne Case

• Discussed the problematic labeling of formerly incarcerated activists as "crime bosses" in media (16:09–19:34).
• Charlamagne and Adams call out society’s reluctance to allow people to move beyond their convictions—even after decades of positive impact.

10. The Waverly Case & Plea Bargains

• Examined the injustice where men accepted plea deals under threat of the death penalty, only to be retried and sentenced to life in federal court despite acquittal on the main charge (19:34–26:56).

  "You're on your own... there's no money around to do it."
  — Jarrett Adams (41:54–42:08)

• Adams’ persistent advocacy eventually helped secure presidential commutation for the Waverly men.

11. Determining Innocence & The Role of Perseverance

• Describes the painstaking process of sifting through cases, sometimes discovering clients are not truly innocent, but emphasizes not letting a few bad experiences prevent helping those truly innocent (27:31–28:10).

12. Victim Families & Restorative Justice

• Adams highlights the importance of full transparency for all affected—including victim families (28:50–29:42).

13. Prison Law Library as Law School

• Learned case law in prison before ever attending law school, granting him unique empathy and communication skills with clients (29:42–30:40).

14. Real Rehabilitation vs. Punishment

• Argues for systems that actually rehabilitate, noting America's adversarial courts breed a “win at all cost” mentality where justice is often lost (30:53–33:05).

15. Systemic Change & Community Responsibility

• Advocates for reforms such as increased funding for public defense, "wars" on social good like child care instead of drugs, and greater reintegration support (34:15–36:15).

16. Actionable Steps for Listeners

• SHOW UP FOR JURY DUTY:

  "Our turn up cannot outweigh our turnout... If we get a jury pool that is diverse, we now control a lot of the outcomes... Show up to jury duty, y'all. That's it."
  — Jarrett Adams (37:37–38:07)

17. What Gives Him Hope?

• Adams’s hope lies in the progress of certain cases, his faith, younger generations, and the prospect of systemic empathy and change (39:07–40:49).

18. Generational Impact of Incarceration

• Shares a moving prison memory of seeing three generations incarcerated together—emphasizing the far-reaching and familial impacts of mass incarceration (40:32–41:46).

19. Supporting Pro Bono & Innocence Work

• Adams calls for support and donations for organizations doing innocence work, as most incarcerated people are left without recourse after appeals are exhausted (41:54–42:45).
• His organizations: jaredadamslaw.com, lifeafterjustice.org.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On resilience:

  "When I left up out of those doors I told myself not only was I not gonna go back, but I'm gonna try to do something to keep people from going there and pull out as many brothers and sisters now increasingly, that I'm doing as I can."
  (04:45–04:52)

• On mental health:

  "Sometimes, man, you have to go and decompress so that way you can have the right state of mind to respond to all the stresses that the world has to offer each and every day."
  (10:28–10:37)

• On the criminal justice system:

  "Our turn up cannot outweigh our turnout... Show up to jury duty, y'all."
  (38:00–38:05)

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Suggested Listening Timestamps

• Jarrett’s Background & Motivation: 03:38–04:52
• Impact of Wrongful Conviction: 05:02–05:45
• Choosing Clients / Life After Justice: 05:49–08:17
• Bentz Brothers Case Discussion: 07:11–08:19
• Therapy & Emotional Resilience: 08:30–10:37
• Memoir & Family Support: 11:02–12:23
• How the System Is Rigged: 14:00–16:09
• Media Representation & Mysonne: 16:09–19:34
• Waverly & Presidential Commutation: 19:44–27:00
• Role of Pro Bono Legal Work: 41:46–43:03
• Call to Action (“Turnout” & Jury Duty): 37:37–38:07

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Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in the human costs and structural traps of the U.S. criminal justice system—delivered with heartfelt candor by Jarrett Adams. It touches on the trauma of incarceration, the hope in persistence, the power of solidarity, and the urgent need for both policy change and community engagement.

Support and learn more:

• jaredadamslaw.com
• lifeafterjustice.org

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Transcript

[Lauren LaRosa]

This is an Iheart podcast.

[Jared Adams]

Guaranteed human peace of the planet.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Charlamagne Tha God here. And the end of the year is the time to set the foundation for next year. New ideas, new product drops, new goals. And when I'm building anything meaningful, I need the right tools. That's why I always tell folks, especially black entrepreneurs and small black owned businesses, Shopify is the move. We use it at the Black Effect Podcast network. And I've seen firsthand how it helps creators and business owners grow with confidence. Okay, Shopify is like having a whole team behind you. Your chief of staff, your personal assistant, your co founder, all in one platform. Wherever your people are, Shopify makes sure your business can meet them where they're at. So if you're ready to take the next step in your life, whether it's merch products or anything in between, get on shopify.com ben and make it happen. It is time to stop putting off your future and start your new role as your own boss today.

[Coca-Cola Announcer]

Whoa, what a vibe we've got, y'.

[Jared Adams]

All.

[Coca-Cola Announcer]

As always, it's classic HBCU energy. Nonstop action. The band is rocking and the crowd lit. Chants echoing, drums beating, everybody showing that school pride. Moments like this, yeah, they call for an ice cold Coca Cola. Crisp and refreshing. That's a game changer right there. Mm, yeah, that taste always hit the right note. Just like the band at halftime. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere. And an ice cold Coca Cola. That's a winning combo. No matter the place, no matter the moment. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and. And keep that HBCU pride going.

[DJ Envy]

Hey, what up, y'?

[Jared Adams]

All?

[DJ Envy]

It's DJ Envy. And the holidays are here. The time of year that's all about connecting with loved ones in person or over the phone. In fact, hearing someone's voice can emote a similar emotional response as a hug. And while most of us can hop on a video chat to really bring that connection to life, using tech isn't easy for everyone, especially some of the older folk in our lives. AT&T has been doing something special here to help. They offer digital literacy workshops that help older adults learn how to use technology to do things most of us take for granted, like video conferencing and sharing photos. Take Nancy Shand. She joined one of AT&T's workshops to learn how to video chat. For the first time this holiday season, Nancy won't just be hearing about family gatherings. She'll be a part of them. Sharing stories, opening presents, and making memories all through a screen Nobody should have to go through the holiday season alone. So be sure to connect and stay connected to your loved ones this holiday season.

[Jared Adams]

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[Coca-Cola Announcer]

Games, and win some cash.

[Jared Adams]

It's that simple. Must be 21 or older. In a jurisdiction where better Picks operates, terms and conditions apply. Better Picks. Sports just got better.

[Trainer Games Announcer]

10 athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking. You are the fittest of the fit. Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract for $250,000.

[Lauren LaRosa]

This is where mindset comes in.

[Trainer Games Announcer]

Someone will be eliminated.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Pressure is coming down.

[Jared Adams]

Trainer games on Prime Video January 8th.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Watch the trailer on trainergames.com hold up. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club. You all finish or y' all done?

[Better Picks Announcer]

Yep.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's the world's most dangerous morning show. The Breakfast Club. Charlamagne the God. Just hilarious. DJ Envy. Justin. DJ Envy on here today, but LL Cool Bay, Lauren LaRosa is. And we talking to a very special brother, man. His name is Jared Adams. Okay. He's got a book out called Redeeming justice, but he is a civil rights attorney and justice reform advocate with an amazing story. Good morning, my brother.

[Jared Adams]

Good morning. Good morning. Thank you both for having me on here.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Thank you for being here.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Absolutely. You know, you were wrongfully convicted and spent 10 years in prison for a crime you didn't commit.

[Jared Adams]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And then you at 17, I believe, right?

[Jared Adams]

17 years old.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

17. But you went on to become an attorney yourself.

[Jared Adams]

Yeah. Not the first to do it, but 17 years old, wrongfully convicted. My conviction being over versed, reversed after almost 10 years with the help of the Wisconsin Innocence Project. And then it was what I saw inside the prison that really led me on the journey that I'm on right now. So when I get to this maximum security prison, you know, I'm one of the youngest, you know, inmates who's walking around this prison. By the time I'm on my way out, you know, of, of this prison, I'm looking at mainly 80, 90% of the prison is 17, 18 year old men of color. So literally the prison boom that we talk about right now, that was when I was doing my time and it was just, it was a sight to see. So when I left up out of those doors I told myself not only was I not gonna go back, but I'm gonna try to do something to keep people from going there and pull out as many brothers and sisters now increasingly, that I'm doing as I can.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, I was thinking, man, when you walk into a courtroom now, as a lawyer, what part of that teenage version of you is still present in your mind?

[Jared Adams]

The part of it. Well, it's two. You know, I would say it's two spirits when I go in there. Number one, I thank God that I'm able to walk in there now. You know, a champion of justice, you know, being able to pull people out. But then also when I go in there, there's a bit of, you know, y' all tried to. Tried to murk me. You tried to take me out. You know what I mean? So I'm walking through swinging arms like George Jefferson in this, boy. You know what I mean? Like. Like legitly. So there's a. There's a. There's a moment of being proud. There's definitely being humble, but. But it's a reminder that, man, look, this is all I fight. You understand what I'm saying? There are. There are more families affected now by our system, and we gotta find a way to link arms and create a human chain.

[Lauren LaRosa]

How do you identify, like, what clients you choose to take on?

[Jared Adams]

Well, that's an interesting question, because for a long time, Lauren, I was a sucker for all my son. And, you know, my. My.

[Lauren LaRosa]

It's tough.

[Jared Adams]

Yeah.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Cause anybody behind bars is tough.

[Jared Adams]

It is. But then also, like, my going through my journey, I went through it with my mama. My mama, single black mother. I go through it with her, and we became tighter. And so once I got my law degree, and this will help answer the question, too, you know, how you got to wait in the mail for the law degree to actually get to the house? So when they get to the house, my mama tell me I come over there, and I told her I want her to keep it. And so she started crying. And I say, well, we ain't crying no more, man. We doing good. She said, no, no, I'm not crying because I'm sad. I'm crying because I know you just ain't gonna go try to make money. You gonna. You're gonna realize that there are other black males with single parents, and they gonna need your help, and you gonna help them, right? So for a long time, I was a sucker for that story. And then I get down deep in these cases and realize that it wasn't exactly what it was, but it never disturbed me from. From. From like, perfecting the process of the intake unit that we have right now. Right. I have an organization called Life after justice, where we review these cases and we try to select these cases on the cases that can do a couple different things. Right. We always want to see people get out, but also if we can get out and make a change legislatively or some rule that will prevent. Those are the cases that we highlight and we want to put at the top of the list.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I saw you working on the Bentz brothers case.

[Jared Adams]

Yes.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Right.

[Jared Adams]

Yes.

[Lauren LaRosa]

So I know that there's no decision at this point.

[Jared Adams]

Well, it is one.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Okay.

[Jared Adams]

They granted the decision in the bench case that she saw. Modifier. If you know or don't know. Two white brothers from Wisconsin were wrongfully convicted and spent 27 years in prison for the rape and the murder and the kidnapping of a. Of a bar. You know, bartender. Right. They ended up doing DNA testing, exhuming the body of the person who actually did it and was a serial rapist. And they cleared these men. But when they came home, they came home past the age of retirement. And literally there's a statute in Wisconsin that no matter how many years you've spent in prison, the maximum you will get is $25,000. Right. So you have to petition the legislators and make an argument and say, look, this is why they deserve more money. They did not make a decision up until, like, a month ago, about three weeks ago, and they agreed to pay these men $1 million plus the 25,000. Wow. And it's something that they desperately needed.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Yeah, that's. That's like. That's amazing. But when you get involved in these cases like this. Right. Even though you know that there's a wrong because of the way the system is set up.

[Jared Adams]

Yeah.

[Lauren LaRosa]

How do you kind of save yourself from, like, if there is disappointment at the end? Because, you know.

[Jared Adams]

Yeah, it's 50.

[Lauren LaRosa]

50.

[Jared Adams]

It's continued therapy. Like, I still go to therapy right now to this day, you know, because I have to balance my emotions no matter what. The tentacles of. When you come in contact with this system that we have in the United States, the tentacles of that contact will always reach you through life. And the only way you can maintain that balance is with constant therapy. And so I encourage therapy. I do it myself, because there are. There are We. We. We take it on the chin a lot. That's right, Lauren. And so we have to find a way to continue to get up off the mat. And we who. Who are off the mat. Need to find a way to keep extending our palm and pulling people up with us.

[Lauren LaRosa]

And that was a historic amount that they were awarded in Wisconsin.

[Jared Adams]

Yeah, yeah, it was. It was. It was a. It was an amount where it's been. It's been met before, but, like, only twice. Okay, Right. So they don't. They don't necessarily give it out. And right now, there's a. There's a bill on the floor right now to make it, you know, a law that you will get $50,000 a year not having to go through what they went through and hold on and wait and hope.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, I agree with you on therapy. You know, I'm a big, you know, proponent of therapy myself, man. And I always say, you know, heal people, healed people will help heal people.

[Jared Adams]

No doubt.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Hurt people, will continue to hurt. Hurt people.

[Jared Adams]

Absolutely. And my journey from. Listen, my journey through mental health wasn't easy, man. I. I thought I was going to a damn fish fry. My mama, aunties was like, man, baby, look, we need you to, like, you're.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Going to see the lady.

[Jared Adams]

Yeah. We need you to let it out.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Jared Adams]

You know, we not. We not. And I think that in our community, we. We are. We are. We reject it because we think it's a sign of weakness. Because you're like, oh, man, they crazy going to see this and going to see that. But for me, I was on autopilot when I got out because all of my guys, man, they weren't turning up no more. They had kids, they had careers. So I thought I could work 24 hours a day to catch up. For almost a decade, that was taken, and it wasn't mentally healthy for me. So going through that, I'm understanding now that that. That the real how I look at this when it comes to my mental health is these are moments of decompression. And sometimes, man, you have to go and decompress so that way you can have the right state of mind to respond to all the stresses that the world has to offer each and every day.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I got to get you on my. You know. You know, I do the mental welfare exploit.

[Jared Adams]

I do. I do. Shaka was telling me about that. He was like, man, make sure you talk about that so you can get on with that, bro.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I need you there. We. We going next year. We're going to do. I want to do three or four cities next year, so I definitely need you there. But you got a memoir, Redeeming justice, right? And the subtitle is From Defendant to Defender.

[Jared Adams]

Yes.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What was the hardest chapter to write emotionally. And what did you learn about yourself when you was putting your story on paper?

[Jared Adams]

So it took me three years to write the book. And part of the reason why it took me those three years is because I wanted to read all of the books of people with stories of wrongful conviction. Because I wanted it to be. Honestly, I wanted it to be. I wanted to be a salute to my mom and my aunts. Man, they didn't have to hold me down like that, but they did. So when I write it and when you look at the book, you think it's a wrongful conviction, but. But if you look at the first opening, it's a dedication to my aunts who Sugar, Honey and Peaches. Look, I'm from Chicago. Don't, don't, don't. You know what I'm saying? That's their nicknames, right? And so I sent a shout out to them because, man, they did stuff like keep me alive when I wanted to die in that boy. I would get a letter with a verse every day from one of them because they told me, baby, look, we're going to acknowledge that they've incarcerated Joe bodies, but we will never let them imprison your mind. And so I wrote this story from a perspective of not just what the person goes through while they're in prison, what does the family go through? Because my mama went from man list. My mother was a big hat wearing peppermint, passing front row church. But when I went through this, she got tired of answering the question charlemagne. Well, what happened to Jared? Where he at? You know what I mean? It became hard for her. And so I wanted to send a shout out to her and then also continue to pages about what I'm doing in life right now.

[Lauren LaRosa]

When you talk about, like, your mom and your aunt, right? And you said that they was like, you gotta go see the lady when you're helping, because, I mean, you get people the justice that they deserve, right? But a lot of times they don't identify that they have issues that they need to deal with, right? So now you're that person in their life when you're doing that, like, how easy or how hard is it to tell somebody, hey, yeah, you need to go get some help. Like, we gonna figure out the job in the state, but you need to go get some help because you're trying to live your life.

[Jared Adams]

It's a difficult conversation, but I can. I can use a story that I just had. So I got a client in Chicago, guy by the name of Shaquille Williams, he was wrongfully arrested for a murder that they knew he didn't commit. So we, we are going through the suit and one of the toughest things about a civil suit is a deposition because you get, you get peppered with questions. And so he's being asked these questions that are emotionally triggering to him when, where, you know, he lost his mom while he was locked up. He now has a wife and he, I have to explain to him and encourage him that you have to keep going to therapy because there are situations where when someone gets out of a place, like a system like we have, you have to learn how to not treat your wife like you're selling. And that's a difficult thing to do and you should never want to do it alone. So what I try to do is live my life and say, look what I've done, what I've done to make it more easier for guys to be receptive. These are some hard dudes who think that, you know, they can't show a sign of weakness. So if I'm telling them that I don't went through and did this time and I don't walk the same hard tears you have. But I still revert back to therapy because it is, it has helped me tie my shoes in a race that is life.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, I've heard you say the criminal justice system is rigged.

[Jared Adams]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And that justice is for sale. So when you look at the current system, what are the top two or three pressure points that most clearly show you how, like, money and race still determine these outcomes?

[Jared Adams]

Look at what we got going on right now, man. Like, just look at what we, what we got going. We, we have, we have a, a system that it, it depends on who you know and what you have. Right. And it, it will determine your result. We are seeing right now our justice Department, you know, being used in such a way that is scary, but also being used in a way that we must ask ourselves, like, why they weren't doing this for us? You know what I mean? Like, wow. Well, we weren't getting this right. So I think that the low hanging fruit is this. We, we must find a way to step in where there are clear gaps in our system and there are wealth gaps that determine a whole lot of the, the sentences and stuff like that. We need to get as loud as we can for lakeisha as we do for Bryant. You get what I'm saying? And I think that I really do believe that our way of fixing the system itself and Angela Rye and a lot of other of my colleagues say the same thing. We have to focus in the individual states, right? That's where we have to focus at. But once we start to work together in these individual states, I think that we must then be able to link arms and start to petition the change that can make it up to the Supreme Court to make that governmental change that will affect the United States in its all in its entirety. So, in short, what we need to do is the people who are closest to the fire usually know how to put it out, but they're the furthest from the water hose. We need to find a way to feed the water hose to the people who are on the ground, the activists, the people who are going to the courtrooms, the people who can tell you, look, don't vote for this judge, vote for that judge, because this judge will make the change. However, we can go back and make sure that our vote counts. We have to be educated in order to do it, but that is what we have to do in order to start to tinker away at this mighty, mighty system.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I wanted to ask you about this. That's why I got up. The track you're on is I want to stay on this track. What did you think, man? Because this really, really disappointed me when I saw our good brother, my son.

[Jared Adams]

And that's my daughter, on the front.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Page of the New York Post labeled as a crime boss. Because Doran Madani is essentially doing what you're saying people should do. He's going to get somebody who's been through the system, who's reformed.

[Jared Adams]

Absolutely.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Put them in place on the public safety committee. Think there's a better representative to have than somebody like a maison? And for him to be demonized like this, how did that make you feel?

[Jared Adams]

I mean, look it, I felt attacked. I felt attacked with that brother, and I know him like, you know what I'm saying? Me, me, me. And we just talked about a case I have in New Jersey a few, you know, weeks ago. The case is Raheem Brian. You can look at it. The kid was shot in the back of the neck. We got a excessive, you know, force you going. But I was just rotating with that brother. So when I looked at that and I saw it, it came up on my timeline and I immediately felt attacked, you know what I'm saying? Like, as if it was me. And I think we all should have that type of response. And I'll just say this for anyone who's questioning, you know, this move right when we. We just came through the pandemic Right. And we got through the pandemic through vaccines. Right? So the vaccines are actually what, the virus that is turned into an antibody. Right. And we injected in ourselves as a defense mechanism. If this brother, which I know he will do with his experience being in this position, he is a voice that is the closest thing to the problems that we have to be able to provide us a solution. Why would we not want that?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Word up.

[Jared Adams]

If we, if we have a president right now, who is the president and he's been convicted of something, why can't we have a brother like this and more sisters like this in positions where they could say, look, I know what it's like, right? To be at home, not have childcare and have to not be able to work so that way they can provide the solutions. You want us to all come off Medicaid? And all these dumbass arguments that you hear about, well, black people on snap, they own this, they own that. Well, why don't you put the people who have had the experience and why they had to be on SNAP in position to be able to provide solutions so that we can snap. Snap the fuck out of here. If that's what you all want to do, right?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It just bothers me, man, when I see a brother, you know, who went to prison, what, he got convicted, what, 99. 99, like 19, 20 years old, he.

[Jared Adams]

Still can't live that day.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

49. You've been a model citizen since you've been home. And soon as something like this happens, you get labeled a crime boss.

[Jared Adams]

A crime boss.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Is this not liable?

[Jared Adams]

I mean, listen, what I would do is this, and I'm offering this for this brother. If he won't, I would strongly send him a letter, you know, and the letter would be a cease and desist. It would also, you know, give the real facts because that brother ain't never been no crime boss, you understand? But you. Look, let me tell you how scary this is and what they did to him. And this is what this reminded me of. So we, we had the RICO that was made famous by junior Judy Allen in New York, taking down and tackling the, the mob problem. Right. Shortly after his success in doing that, who do you think became the target of the rico?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Black people.

[Jared Adams]

Exactly. Inside of neighborhoods that you and I know where guys were couch surfing. But all of a sudden, when they got to federal court, they were named to be the, the, the, the. The federal, you know, guy who did everything. And they're the kingpin and all of that. To be able to slam slander us and continue to keep us in the historical depiction that has hindered black men forever. That's exactly what I thought about when I saw her.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Yeah, absolutely not. It's not switching gears. I guess it's kind of in the same vein. There was a case that I know that you were involved in as well. The Waverly case.

[Jared Adams]

Yes.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Which I thought we talking about, like, people not being able to live down what people title you as. So talk a bit about that case and how those brothers were found not guilty but still sentenced. And then you had to fight, like, explain a little bit, because when I read it, I'm like, this makes no sense. Do you still have to stick with that the rest of your life?

[Jared Adams]

And it's a good outcome to that too. So I'm glad you brought that up. And let me also send a shout out to Tamika Mallory and also my son. That's. That's where I first became in contact with them because they saw my push on that story and they gave me a platform to tell that story at a, At a larger place with the Waverly case.

[Lauren LaRosa]

And they helped know that it helped.

[Jared Adams]

Because we had to get them out on a presidential commutation. So here's what happened in this case. Two brothers were down in Waverly, Virginia. And Waverly, Virginia has a dirty history. They are one of the last known towns to do a public open lynching. Right? So that's the atmosphere in which these guys are charged with the murder of a police officer. And you know, they ain't got no money, ain't. Ain't a lot of platforms and, and stuff down, ain't a lot of exposure. This is 1998. So they are talked into taking plea deals. That should already signal to you all this some bullshit, right? So they plead to Ferran, accessory after the fact, and Terrence pled to a manslaughter charge in this case, even though there was nothing, no evidence at all. But they were basically told by their. Their attorney, look, man, if you get the death penalty, which they were facing, ain't no way out of that. Even if you did, you know, if you did not.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Piece of the planet Charlemagne, the God here. Now, you know, the end of the year is when like a lot of business owners, I really lock in, all right? This is the time to set the foundation for next year. You got new ideas, new product drops, new goals. And when I'm building anything meaningful, I. I need the right tools. That's why I always tell folks, especially black entrepreneurs and small black owned businesses, shopify is the move okay? We use it at the Black Effect Podcast network, and I've seen firsthand how it helps creators and business owners grow with confidence. Entrepreneurship is very important to me, okay? There's nothing wrong with working for people. There's nothing wrong with partnering people. But you should strive to own your own as well, and Shopify can help others grow into entrepreneurs. It's like having a whole team behind you. Your chief of staff, your personal assistant, your co founder, all in one platform. Whether you're running a side hustle or a full storefront selling locally or worldwide, Shopify takes all the guesswork out. Shopify brings everything into one place. You can sell on your website, on social media, and even in the real world. Like some of our partners at our Black Effect Festival coming up in April. Wherever your people are, Shopify makes sure your business can meet them where they're at. Plus, you got Shopify, Sidekick and their AI tools. Total game changers. I love how it's like having an assistant giving you insights, content, ideas, edits. Shopify's got your next move covered. So let me ask you this. If you're ready to take the next step in your life, whether it's merch, products or anything in between, get on shopify.com ben that's shopify.com ben and make it happen. It is time to stop putting off your future and start your new role as your own boss today.

[DJ Envy]

Hey, what up, y'?

[Jared Adams]

All?

[DJ Envy]

It's DJ Envy. And the holidays are here. The time of year that's all about connecting with loved ones in person or over the phone. In fact, hearing someone's voice can evoke a similar emotional response as a hug. And while most of us can hop on a video chat to really bring that connection to life, using tech isn't easy for everyone, especially some of the older folk in our lives. AT&T has been doing something special here to help. They offer digital literacy workshops that help older adults learn how to use technology to do things most of us take for granted, like video conferencing and sharing photos. Take Nancy Shand. She joined one of AT&T's workshops to learn how to video chat for the first time this holiday season. Nancy won't just be hearing about family gatherings. She'll be a part of them, sharing stories, opening presents, and making memories all through a screen. Nobody should have to go through the holiday season alone, so be sure to connect and stay connected to your loved ones this holiday season.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Connecting changes everything. @&t. Whoa.

[Coca-Cola Announcer]

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[Jared Adams]

Mmm.

[Coca-Cola Announcer]

Yeah, that taste always hit the right note. Just like the band at halftime. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere, and an ice cold Coca Cola. That's a winning combo. No matter the place, no matter the moment. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.

[Better Picks Announcer]

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[Trainer Games Announcer]

10 athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points. You are the fittest of the fit. Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract worth $250,000.

[Lauren LaRosa]

This is where mindset comes in.

[Trainer Games Announcer]

Someone will be eliminated.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Pressure is coming down.

[Jared Adams]

Trainer games on Prime Video January 8th.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Watch the trailer on trainergames.com do it.

[Jared Adams]

You can get the death penalty. People get locked up and go to jail for stuff they didn't do all the time. So they took these plea deals. When they took the plea deals, they thought they were just going to have to do five years and the other one had, you know, time released. The feds came around and indicted them as kingpins of being drug dealers. And they said the murder was a result of them being kingpins. Right. And they were able to retry them in federal court. They go to federal court, they're found not guilty of the murder of this police officer, but they're found guilty of selling drugs and they were sentenced to life in prison as an enhancement to based on their guilty pleas in state court. So as a result, they're in federal prison for 20 something plus years, not because they're found guilty of killing the officer, but because they pled guilty to save their life and their life was still taken from them. It is one of the most insane stories ever. We went to the last hour of of Biden's presidency and he finally found signed A commutation to commute their sentence. They came home and they've discharged off, off of their, their, their federal papers and they're released. And we just did an event with them and we're working on a documentary to tell that story because we're trying to change the law. You should not be able to be found not guilty but still sentenced to life based on allegations in other matters. It's just ridiculous.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How did you get the Biden administration to move? Because they weren't, they weren't moving on nothing, man.

[Jared Adams]

Charlemagne. When I tell you the squeaky as we'll get the oil, man, I was squeaky than the motherfucker. Like I just, I wouldn't stop, man. I went around and I thankful the support of some, some Virginia politicians and legislators, man. We talking about Tim Kaine and a bunch of folks who. It took me nine years to get them out, so it wasn't like it was no short thing. So they knew who I was. And I just think, I think it was a matter of me being constant, me being persistent, and God opening them doors. To be honest with you, Absolutely.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How do you determine whether or not a potential client is actually innocent?

[Jared Adams]

Sometimes you just gotta go through it to find out, man. And I ain't gonna lie to you. Look, I done been, you know, thousands of dollars in hours and hours and hours in only for DNA results to come back and it wasn't telling me the truth. But let me say this, man, I can't stop us from sending the elevator back down. That can't keep us from extending our palms, man, because there are some innocent brothers and over centered sisters and brothers who deserve our help. They need our help. And so if I get one out of 10, I take that one. I mean, that's how important it is to our culture, man, that we make sure we don't have a bad experience that makes us close the door to everybody.

[Lauren LaRosa]

My question for you, when I, at my last job, I used to do these stories. Whenever we would hear about like Kim Kardashian or like, you know, just any of the attorneys she was working with getting involved or celebrities in general would speak out about people needing to be put back in front of a judge because something was done wrong in the legal system, there would be the other side, the families of these people who thought, okay, I finally have peace, the case is solved, now we can rest. And then this comes back up and it kind of opens up a door back for them.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Right?

[Lauren LaRosa]

How do you as an attorney deal with that? Because you want justice for the people who are wrong in the justice system. But then it's opening up a whole new, like, world of, like, chaos for this family connected to the person who was harmed.

[Jared Adams]

Here's what we do in our practice and what we do at Life After Justice. So after we do the full investigation, we present it to the victim's family as well, because we deserve that they. We think they deserve to have full closure, not the closure that they have been forced to get. So that case of Terrence and Ferran, I took the complete and total investigation to the family of the officer, and at one point, his daughter was like, look, I had my attorney read this, and I'm going to provide you with the letter that says, I want complete and total transparency. I want to know what happened to my father. That letter went a long way in helping. And so I think that that is a way that you can do it. I think it's deserving.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Right.

[Jared Adams]

Because you're opening up wounds and someone tragically lost their life. In situations like that, I think we have to be respectful and mindful of everyone's feelings.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I want to talk about, you know, the prison library. Right. I read when you started reading case law in the prison library.

[Jared Adams]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And helping other guys with their cases. We always hear about that. Yeah, but. And you did that before you ever set foot in the law school classroom. How did that prison law school shape you differently than a traditional legal education?

[Trainer Games Announcer]

It.

[Jared Adams]

I think what it did for me is, personally, it helped me to. To better understand my clients and listen also, man, I think that as an attorney, I think sometimes, man, we can just be like, I know what I'm doing, and stuff like that. I think what it did for me is it made me understand that just as important. As important as it is winning the case, and you also need to personalize yourself and. And learn from your clients and stuff like that. And so I think that I'm sitting across from guys who were, you know, rightfully convicted, wrongfully convicted, and I'm helping them out. And I think what it helped me do was master. Become a master class of the client communications that is necessary to be victorious in these tough cases.

[Lauren LaRosa]

You know what I think about? And this is a lot of times, I think about even people who are locked up. Right. That may actually have done what they did, and they need, like, some form of, like, rehabilitation.

[Jared Adams]

Yeah.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Are we ever going to figure out a system that, like, actually rehabilitates people but also balances punishment? Because I do think there is a form of punishment needed but when it's your family member, you don't feel like that. But yeah, realistically, like it's like the conversation we have around, like, defund the police. And what it's actually supposed to mean what people think we're saying, yeah, you need police, but you need them to like, right, be human.

[Jared Adams]

Why can't we just advance? Like we've advanced in technology, man, and we advanced in technology from learning, right? We learned from our mistakes. We got better. You used to have to, you know, you remember the phone with the cord, man, my mama had a 50 extension cord.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We used to walk around the house.

[Jared Adams]

We go to the basement at that phone. We've advanced from that. So it's like, why can't we advance in these things that affect our, our lives as much as this criminal system does? And I'll tell you in my perspective, so this is what I think is the problem. We have an adversarial system. And I don't care if it's a spitball contest or a pencil popping contest, you going to want to win, right? When you win this contest, I'll give you an example of what I mean by that. I did a study abroad in London because I was trying to get through law school and the only way you can get like a bunch of credits was if you did this, the study abroad. So I went over there, I spent about four weeks and the assignment was, you need to go to their criminal system, see what's there and write a paper on what you think will work in our system. So when I got there and you sit up in the top, you know, of this thing called the Old Bailey or whatever it is, right, and you look down at the, the barristers who are both men and women, and they're doing these arguments. And I remember this, this lady, man, she was kicking, man, she was kicking this dude butt up in there, right, with the argument that she had. And it was, it was involving a sensitive subject. It was involving actually a rape case, right? And then I seen her come back like three days later and now she was actually defending a, a guy who was accused of a rape with the same passion and the same, just vigorous, like, this is my client. What I walked away from with that is, you know what, that's how they're able to preserve the sympathy and empathy that is missing out of our system. We just want to win as defense attorneys, we just want to win as prosecutors. And sometimes when that happens, the thing that is lost is justice.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But I was just going to say.

[Lauren LaRosa]

It'S Been like that for like, like this whole thing and like breaking this whole system. When people had a conversation, I'm like, it's been like this for so many years, like.

[Jared Adams]

Right.

[Lauren LaRosa]

So far beyond us. Like, sometimes I, I wonder why do we believe that it's going to just be able to change and like, you'll be able to change even people's spirit to not want to just win.

[Jared Adams]

Yeah. The case, man, we got to get people closer to, to what is really happening, you know, and that's going to make people want to change. I think that, you know, until it, until Trump was actually prosecuted by the system, I, I don't you think he had a problem with the system? You know what I mean? No. Until he was prosecuted by then, he had a problem with the system. Right. So I think that, I still don't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Think he has a problem with how it does certain people, meaning black and brown people.

[Jared Adams]

Yeah, that's true too. And, but powerful.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He probably feel like.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Yeah. But say, because his privilege, when he encountered the system is a lot different. And a lot of times you got people who create, do these like, you know, certain collar crimes and they're put in certain facilities. Yeah. So different than what we know. Like, when I have a family member going to prison is a different experience. So even their close experience doesn't change how they view things because it's different for them.

[Jared Adams]

It, it my opinion, right, it is different for them, but I, but I, I use something my grandfather used to use, which is, man, you know, look, sometimes people don't understand shit to that on the bottom of their shoe, right? And that's, that's really one of them things where it's like, we need our leaders, and I'm not going to identify and point out our names. We need our leaders, man, to, to start to make the, the quick, rapid change that we're seeing right now with this current administration, man. Like, legitly, I, I don't, I don't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Think they had the courage to do it. Even if they get back in position with all the tools at their disposal, I don't think they got the courage.

[Jared Adams]

Well, I'll just say this, listen, don't do the job then. You know what I mean? Like, if you don't have the courage to do what's necessary, don't do the job. Like, we need y', all, like, legitly, man. We, we, we need y'. All, Especially as an attorney in court every day, man, I'm seeing every day how slight changes could change the example. Why do Public defenders have the budget of a school teacher, but the caseload of an entire administration. It ain't fair. You know what I mean? Like, so why can't we come in and just change that system alone? 90 of the public relies on public defense, like public defenders or different organizations like that. So it's like, man, if you want to change this system, why can't we change the budget to that? If you look at the pie chart in the Department of Justice, we spend the majority of that on what they call policing, right? That's. That's locking people up, that's building new prisons. We got a small. You can't even see that dot on what they spend on reintegration and mental health care. So it's like, why not just start there and you. You tell me if it works? I'll give you another example. We seen the war on drugs create mass incarceration. There was billions of dollars that was spent on the war on drugs. Let me see a war on child care. Let me see a war on the school systems in Chirac, where I'm from. Let me see a war on putting them jobs back that are in those areas, replacing those liquor stores with those jobs. And you talk to me in 10 years and you tell me if that ain't produced a better product.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Man, you said something earlier when you was talking about, like, the prosecutors, man, it made me think like, you. You stood on both sides, right? As a defendant and a. A defense attorney. What's one thing you wish every prosecutor, judge, and cop had to experience or learn before they're allowed to hold that kind of power over somebody's life?

[Jared Adams]

Man, I really wish they can experience a day in prison, in a. In a day with the family members at home who have they loved ones in prison, right? Because you're talking about astronomical phone calls. Prisoners ain't placed in the city. They had. They in Appalachia somewhere, right? You know, I'm saying you got to drive a clean correctional. You ever went to Clinton? I got a couple clients up there, man. You. You. That you might as well block out your calendar for that day, right, and hope everything work out. So it's like that. That part of it, in my opinion, is, again, they need to experience it just to have that sympathy and empathy, man. Everything doesn't require a hammer. You understand what I'm saying? Like, and that's. That just seems like what happens when. When you get us in front of one of these systems, man, we all look like nails to them.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

For people listening, man, who will never See the inside of a courtroom. Beyond jury duty, what's one specific action they can take, you know, right now that actually moves the needle on wrongful convictions and criminal justice reform in. In their own city.

[Jared Adams]

Pay attention, man. Like, legitly, man. If you're going to be there and you going show up and also listen, in general, black folks show up to jury duty. Come on, y'. All. Like, legitly, man. Like, we. We have to show up to jury duty. Like, you just don't know how many jury pools in the northern district of Illinois where I'm doing a wrongful conviction case, and I ain't got nothing but one or two of us in there. And then we trying to get about that. Like. Like, we need y', all, man. We. We listen. Look, our turn up cannot outweigh our turnout. Ooh. Like, legitly.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I like that.

[Jared Adams]

So. So for me and my perspective, I like to have a good time, too, man. But, man, when it's time to turn, when it's time to turn out, we got to turn out. So please show up the jury duty, y', all. Y', all, y'. All. You just don't know, man. If we get a jury pool that is. That is diverse, right? We now control a lot of the outcomes, man. Show up, show up. If you can be there, be there, right? I'd be like, man, charlamagne. I be trying to get people eye contact when they be on the jury pool. Like, please, please don't make noise. Go stand up and say, you got a baby like that. Come on. But that's. That's what we need, because we present the case, but the jury makes a decision. We need black and brown folk. And let me make sure that I'm clarifying that. Not just black for black and brown folk, because we ain't the minority if we link up. You know what I'm saying? So that's what we need. Show up the jury duty. That's it. And then pay attention in that. Take notes and stuff like that. Be active in your participation, because what your. What your vote counts for right there in that moment is critical to the lives of a lot of my clients and a lot of lawyers. Clients.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What gives you hope that meaningful justice reform is actually possible?

[Jared Adams]

Man, the cases, man. I just look at the cases, and I. And I. And I. And I also am just a person who wants to be hopeful. I have to be right going through what I went through, man. I'm a prayerful person. I'm a hopeful person, and I also get an opportunity to look at the. The babies that we have that are coming up right now, man. And I'm. I'm afraid, y'. All, I don't even lie, you know, when I'm looking and talking to these mothers and fathers in these courtrooms, I believe that it's desensitizing our babies to believe that the criminal system is just a part of our lives. And some kids never experience that, only in the movie. And I. And I. You know, I give you another example of. People ask me, man, what's the. What's the toughest thing you ever seen in prison? And they expect me to say a knife fight or something like that, man, I tell you the toughest thing that I've seen in this prison. So I'm playing ball on the first couple of years that I get to Green Bay Correctional, and Green Bay Correctional in Wisconsin was. Was. Is. Is. It's a. It's a tough place, okay? And right now, they are. They are stabbing each other up in there. And it's just. It doesn't make any sense what's going on with the violence. So I'm passing time out playing basketball and, you know, everybody picking a squad. Everybody got a nickname. And I'm hearing, you know, these guys on the other team and they like G Pops, Old man and gsun, right? I'm just thinking, like, they all from the same block. You know what I'm saying? I ain't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No.

[Jared Adams]

I ain't know at all. It wasn't until I got in the visiting room and I was visiting, my mama came up to see me from Chicago, and I'm in the visiting room, and I didn't realize, man, this was three generations, man. This was a grandfather, a father and his son.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

God.

[Jared Adams]

But what really messed me up was three. Two women came to see him with three kids, and it was a little girl with him. And, man, the little girl came through the medical detective and raised the arm up to be wanded because she was looking at her mama and grandmama be wanded coming to the prison. And you don't want the kids anything like that, man. Like, you, you know, you. You. This is a baby. What. What's she doing at 3, 4 years old knowing that she's supposed to stick her arms up in the air. And so I said, man, look, we. We gotta address this. We. We need to implement inside our schools of psychology sections that address specifically people who encounter the system, whether it be family members or whether it be people who are there in order to make some real, real, real change that that is the thing that I will never forget. And that happened almost 20 some years ago, but I never forget it.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Can you talk about the. The importance of pro bono work? Oh, look, because I know, like, that that's a part of the reason why, even with your situation. Right?

[Jared Adams]

Yes. An instance project got me out. It's important that. That we donate to the right organizations that are doing the work on the ground. And look, man, it's tough. You. You understand what I'm saying? There's a lot of organizations, a lot of people doing the same work. But we. We. Our system. There are people. Once you get convicted, you on your own, as a matter of fact. Not people. Everybody. Once you get convicted and that first appeal is over with, you're on your own. Right? So there are people who never have an opportunity to present their case of innocence, not because they're not innocent, but because there's no money around to do it. So we have to donate to organizations like my organization, Life after justice, people who are doing the work and taking on cases pro bono to be able to really get them the help that they need. We. We have to do this right, because there are. There are no. The cavalry ain't coming. We the cavalry.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We got to save ourselves.

[Jared Adams]

That's it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Word up.

[Jared Adams]

That's it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Listen, man, Jared Adams, his book, Redeeming justice from Defendant to Defender, My Fight for Equity on Both Sides of a Broken System is available everywhere. You buy books now, man. Thank you, man. How can we continue to support your work? I know. Life After Justice. What's the website?

[Jared Adams]

But also, the website is. Is jaredadamslaw.com lifeafterjustice.org is the website, and y' all can support by. By sharing the story, man, like, honestly, Charlemagne. Listen, if we gonna have a donkey of the day, let's do a King of Queen of the day.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Word.

[Jared Adams]

You know what I'm saying? Straight up, man. I love y'.

[Better Picks Announcer]

All.

[Jared Adams]

Thank y' all for having me.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

This is us crowning you right now.

[Jared Adams]

I appreciate you, brother. I really do, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, sir.

[Jared Adams]

I really do.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's Jared Adams. It's the Breakfast Club.

[Jared Adams]

Hold up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up.

[Jared Adams]

The Breakfast Club.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Y' all finish or y' all done?

[Sophie Cunningham]

This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing if anyone has ever said you snored loudly or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness irritability, and concentration issues. It may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at. Don't sleep on osa.

[Jared Adams]

Com.

[Sophie Cunningham]

This information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company.

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[Trainer Games Announcer]

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[Julian Edelman]

This is Julian Edelman from Games With Names. Fantasy football can be exhausting. I mean that literally. You're so anxious over your lineup you can't fall asleep. Best way to deal with it is unisom. There's a reason it's the number one doctor recommended over the counter sleep aid brand. It helps you fall asleep faster, wake up less, and feel refreshed in the morning. Plus, unisom sleep tabs are clinically tested and proven effective and completely non habit forming. So make the ultimate sleeper pick and put it to bed with unisom. Use as directed.

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Look Santa, the kids left you Pepperidge Farm Cookies.

[Jared Adams]

Milano Mint Chocolate so rich. Jessamine Butter Cookies so buttery and Linza Raspberry A holiday classic. These are Fancy Santa Fancy Santa Fancy Santa Designer cologne Spritz Me Vintage timepiece Classy o' clock Gold chain with diamonds. Now that's fancy. Beveridge Farm Cookies Fancy a taste?

[Lauren LaRosa]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.