INTERVIEW: Jennifer Arnise Talks 'Black Mother Wound,' Survival Vs. Healing Within Black Families + More

Summary

The Breakfast Club: Interview with Jennifer Arnise – "Black Mother Wound," Survival vs. Healing in Black Families & More
Episode Date: May 25, 2026
Podcast Network: The Black Effect Podcast Network & iHeartPodcasts
Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God, Lauren
Guest: Jennifer Arnise (host of Black Mother Wound Podcast, spiritual coach, intuitive healer)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deeply into the concept of the "Black Mother Wound," a generational, cultural, and systemic experience among Black families, especially between mothers and daughters. Jennifer Arnise, whose podcast spotlights this vital subject, breaks down survival-based parenting versus healing, generational trauma, the unique circumstances of Black motherhood, and what true accountability and self-healing can look like. The conversation is raw, compassionate, and challenges listeners to rethink familial loyalty, forgiveness, and the journey toward self-love.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Jennifer Arnise and the "Black Mother Wound"

• Jennifer recounts her journey as a podcaster and spiritual coach (03:13).
• Defines intuitive healing as helping others build better mind-body-spirit relationships, emphasizing healing through vulnerability and transparency (03:19).
• Clarifies she’s not a medium—her focus is on self-connection, not fortune-telling (04:06).

2. Defining the Mother Wound—General and Black-Specific

• Cites Bethany Webster; describes the mother wound as a generational, gendered transmission rooted in patriarchy, most often between mothers and daughters (04:27).
• The "Black Mother Wound" layers racial systemic oppression onto gender oppression, creating a unique pain and dynamic, especially owing to the archetype of the "strong Black mother" (04:27–06:13).

  “Having a white mother and having a black mother is not the same. The wounding is not the same.” — Jennifer Arnise (05:10) “There is no strong white mother… but there’s a strong black mother. And that’s really a crown of thorns.” (05:18)

• The resulting disconnect is generational: mothers try to prepare daughters for worlds that no longer exist, perpetuating pain (05:32–06:13).

3. Challenging the “Strong Black Woman” Trope

• Explores how the expectation to endure pain silently is passed down as strength, rooted in racial oppression and survival tactics from slavery onward (06:28–07:43).
• Charlamagne observes: “Sometimes trauma gets passed down as strength.” (07:38)
• Jennifer: “Not sometimes, always.” (07:43)

4. Coming to Awareness and Breaking the Silence

• Jennifer shares a pivotal moment realizing her mother saw her as an enemy, sparking her healing journey (08:23–09:04).
• She speaks of shame for not having a close mother relationship; vulnerability and sharing stories reduced her isolation (09:05–09:33).

  “You cure shame through sharing.” (09:05)

5. Accountability vs. Disrespect

• The Black community often conflates disagreement with disrespect, making it hard to establish accountability (10:53).

  “We need to redefine what is disrespect.” – Jennifer (10:53)

• Healing isn’t about changing your mother, but healing your relationship with yourself and not repeating patterns (11:30).
• Uses analogy: “Our mothers are a house phone; we’re iPhones. Limited capability doesn’t make her wrong, just at a different place in evolution.” (11:57)

6. Intergenerational Healing & Parenting

• Breaking generational trauma is imperfect; apology and emotional transparency with children are essential (13:07–14:07).

  “What’s better than being right is allowing yourself to be wrong in front of your kids.” – Jennifer (13:13)

7. Survival vs. Healing, Healing vs. Religion

• Many confuse healing with religious or therapeutic activities. Jennifer reframes healing as “a change in perspective.” (14:07)

  “Healing is a miracle [it] is a change in perspective.” (15:10)

8. Parenting, “What Happens at Home Stays at Home,” & Secrecy

• Secrecy causes multi-generational harm and inauthenticity (21:02).

  “The secrecy is doing us way more harm than we could ever imagine.” (21:46)

• Emphasizes that although there’s “no manual,” there are books and resources; the parent-child dynamic is fundamentally a relationship (22:05–22:50).

9. Self-Esteem and Black Daughters

• Major wounds: Not feeling worthy of love, feeling you must earn love, perfectionism, sense of not belonging (20:04–20:48).

  “You don’t have to earn love. You don’t have to be a certain way to be loved.” (20:48)

10. Forgiveness vs. Acceptance

• Jennifer’s approach doesn’t prioritize apology or forgiveness from the parent; healing means centering the self (34:12).

  “Healing my mother wound is not healing the relationship I have with my mother. It’s healing the relationship I have with myself.” (34:12, 41:45) “Forgiveness is a footnote… Healing is selfish and it should be.” (51:16)

11. Family Hierarchies and Boundaries

• Challenges loyalty based on parental sacrifice or title; insists one’s pain is valid regardless (43:03–44:58).
• Warns about applying hierarchies learned in families to romantic relationships; can breed codependency and self-sacrifice (46:26).

12. Accepting Parental Limits, Ending Cycles

• Sometimes healing means going no-contact; Jennifer’s choice was about mutual peace (50:00–51:16).

  “If [your mother] is happy with the arrangement, I honor that. That is how I honor her as my mother: I have released you from responsibility of having to be anything that you’re not.” (51:07)

13. Practical First Steps to Healing

• Don’t rush; acknowledge your pain and experiences, embrace community, understand it’s a lifelong process (53:59–54:56).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “Trauma gets passed down as strength.” – Charlamagne (07:38)
• “You cure shame through sharing.” – Jennifer (09:05)
• “Our mothers are a house phone; we’re iPhones… Limited capability doesn’t make her wrong.” – Jennifer (11:57)
• “Healing is a miracle [it] is a change in perspective.” – Jennifer (15:10)
• “You don’t have to earn love. You don’t have to be a certain way to be loved.” – Jennifer (20:48)
• “The secrecy is doing us way more harm than we could ever imagine.” – Jennifer (21:46)
• “Healing my mother wound is not healing the relationship I have with my mother. It’s healing the relationship I have with myself.” – Jennifer (34:12, 41:45)
• “Forgiveness is a footnote… Healing is selfish and it should be.” – Jennifer (51:16)

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• [03:13] – Jennifer introduces her spiritual coaching and intuitive healing work.
• [04:27] – Detailed definition of “Black Mother Wound.”
• [07:38] – Trauma as a form of strength in Black families.
• [09:05] – Jennifer describes her breaking point in her relationship with her mother.
• [10:53] – The meaning of “disrespect” in Black families.
• [13:13] – Apologizing to children as an act of healing.
• [14:07] – Survival, healing, and religion in Black families.
• [20:04] – Core wounds: Not feeling worthy of love.
• [21:02] – The impact of family secrecy.
• [34:12] – Forgiveness vs. acceptance in healing parent-child relationships.
• [41:45] – Healing the mother wound is not the same as healing the mother-daughter relationship.
• [51:07] – Jennifer on honoring her mother’s boundaries by no longer trying to force a relationship.
• [54:07] – Jennifer's advice for first steps toward healing a mother wound.

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Resources & Calls to Action

• Jennifer Arnise’s book: That Cape: The Grown Woman’s Unapologetic Guide to Putting Herself First (55:03)
• Listen and subscribe to: Black Mother Wound Podcast (55:06)
• Upcoming live podcast & fireside chat in Charlotte, July 11 (55:17)
• Visit: blackmotherwound.com or jenniferarnise.com for more info.

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Tone & Language:
Conversations are direct but nurturing, filled with vulnerability, collective reflection, and insistence on honesty and self-compassion. The panel challenges social and familial norms, making space for grief, anger, and radical self-love.

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Summary Takeaway:
This episode emphasizes that the path to healing generational wounds in Black families, particularly between mothers and daughters, requires radical self-focus, re-examining long-held beliefs, and giving oneself permission to feel—and move past—pain. Healing isn’t about “fixing” parents or getting apologies but re-parenting and freeing yourself for future generations.

Transcript

[Lauren]

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[DJ Envy]

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[Jennifer Arniece]

A lot of you ask how I actually run my business behind the scenes. And honestly, Shopify is the reason it exists. For me, Shopify is the place where I took this little idea I had and turned it into a real business. I still remember the first ever sale I made for my fashion brand. Embellished. It was a huge moment for me and Shopify made it all possible. Build your store, own your audience, and create something that lasts. Start [e-mail] Ben hold up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club

[DJ Envy]

Morning everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. Laura Rose is here as well. We got a special guest in the building. That's right now. She entered the picture podcast competition at last year's Black Effect Podcast festival.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Black Effect. Say it with your chest, please.

[DJ Envy]

I said black effect.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I didn't like the way it wrote up.

[DJ Envy]

I said Black Effect Podcast.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

There you go.

[DJ Envy]

She won and she is now on the network. The name of her podcast is the Black Mother Wound Podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, we have Jennifer Arniece.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Welcome. Good morning, Jennifer.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Good morning.

[DJ Envy]

How are you feeling?

[Jennifer Arniece]

I'm feeling amazing. Where are you from? Thank you for having me. I'm from Steadman, North Carolina.

[DJ Envy]

North Carolina.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Hey, Carolina.

[Lauren]

How did you hook up with Instagram? Oh, okay.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yep. I live outside of Charlotte now in Rock Hill. Okay, okay.

[Lauren]

All right. Because at the podcast festival, she was with another podcaster from Delaware, and I was like, oh, my God, this is like such a full circle moment. My first time meeting you, and you're with her and you with her. Years.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Know her for years, and we've known each other online for years, and now. That's my buddy.

[DJ Envy]

Now let's talk.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And you're also a spiritual coach and intuitive healer.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yes.

[DJ Envy]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What is that exactly?

[Jennifer Arniece]

Well, it means that the work that I do is all about creating a better relationship with yourself. Right. So that's your mind, your body, and your spirit. And I think most of us, we're given tools on how to have our physical body in shape. We're given tools now to even maybe, you know, our intellect and our mind. But a lot of times our spirit, the thing we can't see, gets neglected.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Jennifer Arniece]

And I think that's like our core, and that's where our compass is and that's where our intuition lies. So I think through healing, through vulnerability, vulnerability, transparency, you can stop compartmentalizing those things and have them all work together.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Is an intuitive healer like a kind of like a medium or.

[Jennifer Arniece]

No, a medium. I don't tell you the future or anything like that. It's just how you connect with yourself.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Gotcha.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Your inner little child, your emotions, all those types of things like that is. Yeah. It's no crystal balls. You have. The power is teaching someone how to tap into their own power.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And, you know, we've been having a lot of conversations lately, just about, you know, father wounds, mother wounds. What is a black mother wound for people who don't know.

[Jennifer Arniece]

So let me tell you about what a mother wound is, because I think with social media, they throw in terms around and use them for everything. Right. And how I came to learn the mother wound through Bethany Webster is. It is a generational wound that passes down from a mother to a daughter, is rooted in the patriarchy and the mother's lack of autonomy that she has over her own life, that's created by the patriarchy. She models that behavior down to her daughter. And so it's like really teaching a girl how to survive with less. Right? And so you have. So it's gender based. The black mother wound. We're going to add race and how a black woman also loses autonomy, not just because of her gender, but because of her race. Because when I read all these books about the mother wounds, they don't. There's not a real reflection of us. A black woman's story isn't centered and it's not the same. Having a white mother and having a black mother is not the same. The wounding is not the same. So it's really how we approach it. Especially if you grew up with a certain strong black mother. If you grew up with that, because there is no strong white mother, there's no strong Mexican mother, there's no strong Asian mother, but there's a strong black mother. And that's really a crown of thorns. We've kind of exalted it, but really it's painful. And you pass that down to your daughters. So if. If my mother was born in 1946, she has certain freedoms. So I was born in the 70s. She Teaching me from what she knows about freedom, but I have more freedom, right? And that becomes the disconnect because she's trying to teach me about a world that doesn't exist anymore. And I'm trying to live in a world that she doesn't know about. And that's what creates a lot of the conflict between black women and their daughters.

[DJ Envy]

Break that down. Explain that a little bit. Because somebody will say, well, I'm white. I had a strong white woman, a white, strong white mother. You know, I'm Asian.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

She's talking about.

[Jennifer Arniece]

But the social construct, right?

[DJ Envy]

But yeah, but break that down, because people will just hear that and be like, that's not true. But what do you break that down?

[Jennifer Arniece]

When I say having. When you say, oh, she's. I'm a strong black woman. Like, it's seen as, you know, a badge of honor. How you. I was listening earlier on the radio and the guy was talking about his wife and he said he loves his wife because she's always in so much pain, but she never shows it. That's what he loves about her. That type of expectation, I believe is regular relegated to black women. And if you are going through pain and you don't know how to show it and you have a black daughter she's going to go through pain, and you're going to teach her not to show it. Because that's what being strong is. That's what being good is. How much you can abandon yourself for the sake of others, which is rooted in systematic racial oppression, is rooted in chattel slavery, is the dehumanization of. Of a black woman. And how she teaches her daughter that her dehumanization is also a part of her survival. And how to wear it with a smile, how to make it nice, that's not something that other cultures are really experiencing. The way black women and their daughters and yeah, you know, it's not the same.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Our elders endured so much that sometimes trauma gets passed down as strength.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Not sometimes, always. Yeah, it does. Because at one point that was how you stayed alive, but it's not how you stay alive now. And I think that's why we have to even update how we are parenting. Because when you look at black culture, a big part of black culture, you have music, you have the way you dress, you have the way you talk, and you have the way you parent or you parent like a black parent, you parent like this. And it's so rooted in tradition that we're missing that is. It's becoming obsolete now.

[Lauren]

When did you learn that you were even allowed to acknowledge that there were black mother wounds? Because for a long time, I didn't even know that I was allowed to even talk. Say that and talk about that.

[Jennifer Arniece]

I never knew. I always knew it was a thing. And then when I was 40, me and my mother were having a conversation on the phone, and she started hitting me with a one word answer. I was trying to help her, and she was like, okay, okay, okay. And I realized she thinks I'm her enemy. I have spent all my life trying to please her, trying to be everything that she wants me to be. And in this moment, she thinks I'm her enemy. She doesn't trust me. And it was literally like my life flashed before my face. And I had seen it my whole life. And I was like, oh, she got me fucked up. This is not me. This is not my problem.

[Martha Stewart]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Arniece]

And then to talk about it, I read a book by Brene Brown, and she was talking about shame. And I realized how much shame I felt because I didn't have a close relationship with my mother. I didn't even know how to acknowledge it. And so realizing that you cure shame through sharing. And so that's when I was like, let me see if. Am I broken? Am I a bad person? Am I. Wrong. And then starting to share my story and people saying, oh, my God, You're. You're saying how I feel, but I didn't have words for it.

[DJ Envy]

You're.

[Jennifer Arniece]

You're letting me know I'm not the only one. I'm not crazy. I'm not exaggerating. I'm not making it up. Those were all the things I felt. And so as soon as I saw, oh, I'm not the only one, I was like, let's talk about it. And it really did help me because I'm. I have so much shame. You know what I mean? It's just. I was raised in the Bible belt in church with a single black mother. You know, everything is like, there's a sense of guilt that's put on you early on. And. And so just being. Just talking about it has helped. And that's why I think that's a really important thing.

[Lauren]

When you talked about it with your mom, was she receptive to hearing that?

[Jennifer Arniece]

No. No. And we've had the conversation before. I've never. I've always known there was something off between the relationship with me and my mother. My whole life. My father knew it, you know, and this is not to shade her. It's just something that I always knew, but I just felt that it. That it was me. So. No, I don't think she has that. Well, I know she doesn't have that capacity to understand, and I'm seen as disrespect. It's seen as disrespectful for me to even bring it up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I want to talk about that, right? Because, like, you know, just mothers, grandmothers, right? You know, during the black community, they're. They're. They're sacred figures who can't be questioned. How do you create space for accountability without encouraging disrespect?

[Jennifer Arniece]

Well, first, I think we need to redefine, like, what is disrespect? Because that is, like, the number one word in the black community. It's like, oh, what does that mean? Because a lot of times, if you disagree, you disrespect. If you talk loud, you disrespect. If you don't say, yes, ma'. Am. So it's like you can't. You can't hold someone accountable. Your boundary is for you. So my generation, it might not happen with me. It may happen with the next generation. So this work isn't about changing the mother, Right? It is about the daughter healing the relationship with herself so she doesn't repeat the same patterns. And then she, as she becomes in touch with her own humanity, she then can see her mother's humanity. And sometimes you do love from afar. We have to get out of this concept that what a mother should be, how the relationship should be, and learn to accept it as it is and build loving community and loving relationships where we can find them. A lot of times we think, if I don't get the love from my mother, then I'm not going to get it from anybody. And my things I want to teach you, just because she can't give you the love, it doesn't mean the love doesn't exist, because you're going to a well that's dry. You know, it's like, I'm a cell phone. I'm an iPhone. Just think about our programming, all the things that an iPhone can do. A lot of our mothers are a house phone. You can't click over. There's no FaceTime. There's no apps. It's a limited capability. Does that make her wrong? No. We are all on an evolutionary journey. This isn't about shaming anybody, but it is understanding actual human dynamics. And, like, where can I get the love I need?

[DJ Envy]

How do you. How do you break those traumas? Right? Because it's like, you know, being a dad, right? Like, my dad raised me a certain way, right? And he did it out of survival, right? He went to the military. He's seen racism. He was. Wasn't able to drink a certain water fountain. So for me, he looks at people a certain way, which made me look at people a certain way, right? But that was 40, 50, 60 years ago. But now when I have my kids, I kind of do the same thing as my dad, and I try to scale back a little bit, but it's difficult because that's how you raised. So how do you break those traumas so that your daughters and your daughter's daughters and your daughter's daughter's daughter's daughters are not feeling that same trauma?

[Jennifer Arniece]

The reality is I'm not gonna fix all of it. There are mistakes I made with my son that I'm, you know, putting money away for him to be in therapy when he's older. You know what I'm saying? I'm not. You're not going to fix everything. You it. And that's. I think it's what's better than being right is allowing yourself to be wrong in front of your kids. You know, it's like, I don't know. You know, I feel this way. I know it's not right. I'M working through it. Okay, dad, well, we're going to help you out. You know, I made a mistake, things like that. It's just apologizing is huge. Right? My son would prefer me to apologize than be right all the time, but because I want to teach him how to apologize. So you're not going to break every chain, right? It is just a process and really it comes from you being transparent and vulnerable. And this exactly the story you just said, telling your kids that like, hey, I'm trying to change these things. This is the way I am. So be patient with dad. I'm working on it. And that's all you can do.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You think a lot of black families confuse survival with healing?

[Jennifer Arniece]

I don't know if they confuse survival with healing. I think they, I think they confuse healing with religion. So survival is just how we live. I think we, we confuse maybe survival with our culture. Like we have a as black culture. A lot of things we do are survival based. So we can confuse those. But I don't think they sur they confuse survival with healing. I think people think that healing is either church based or you have to be on somebody's couch going through therapy all the time. When this is what healing is. Healing is a change in perspective. That's all that healing is. It means you can see something differently where you saw it, you know, as a curse. Now that I have a better understanding, I can see it as a blessing. Two things can still be true. It did hurt me, but now I've learned from it. I have a new skill from it. Things of that nature, right? So I think that's how we don't really have a. And we think healing means if something is black, we can make it white. That's what I mean, that we, we look at it in religion. That's why we want. I want my mother to change. Why can't she change like just flip a switch. I'm gonna pray for her. She's gonna be different. I mean that's not how it happens. Things you, when you get pregnant, it take not much. You're not gonna pray a baby to be born. We only know about that happen at one time. You say you know, so, so we don't look at people evolving in that same way. But healing in a miracle is a change in perspective. So healing your mother wound is not changing your mother. It is changing your perspective about the relationship and changing the perspective you have about yourself. Because how my mother saw herself, she taught me to see myself that way.

[DJ Envy]

I was going to do another Question on that. Why do you think things change when a lot of women become grandmothers? Right. A mother will be a certain way, but when they. A grandmom, it's like, it's totally, totally different. Why do you think that is?

[Jennifer Arniece]

Because there's no danger. It's like when you have a child, it's like your heart is outside. You have no control. And again, if you have a mother wound, you don't have autonomy over your own life. And now you're the supreme law for this individual that is depending on you for everything. You've never had that happen before. It's so much pressure and stress. So when you're a grandparent, all those necessities are taken care of by someone else. So you can kind of. There's space between things, you know, it's. That's all it is. It's just a space. And it's not always that way because some grandparents are still the same way with their grandchildren.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When you think of the black mother wound, Right. How much of it is personal and how much of it is systemic?

[Jennifer Arniece]

I think it. It starts with systemically. It's cultural because it is rooted in racism and it's rooted in a patriarchy. So it's how we see women, how the world sees women. And then it, of course, it becomes personal because we, we live it every day and it becomes like the breath, it becomes the water.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, I have a. The. It's just. It's just my personal opinion. I feel like our. The parents are the first people that traumatize you if they're not doing it right.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yes, they absolutely are.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's why everything you're talking about, when you talk about apologizing and admitting your mistakes, that's stuff I never heard.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Never heard, never. But it wasn't. You have to think again. They didn't even have the language for that. You have to think. A house phone with the string and his rotary. That's very limited. But so much has happened in one or two generations that now we have so many resources to us that. That we can understand things very differently. But they are the first people to traumatize us in all in ways because they didn't have the tools, they didn't have the skills, you know, but they still have to be held responsible for the impact.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Having to go, you know, the psychological torture of having to go pick a switch. You know, you from the car, you are my grandma.

[Lauren]

My aunts always talk about having to

[Charlamagne Tha God]

go pick a switch that's used to hurt you.

[Jennifer Arniece]

So we know what's worse, when they'll pick up anything and hit you. I'll go pick a switch. I'll go pick a switch. Cause don't hit me with no fly swaddle. You haven't been hit with a fly swatter? No, I haven't. Okay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[Lauren]

My grandma used to use a vacuum cord, though.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Thank you. You haven't been hit with a broomstick? No. Okay. All right. I'll go pick a stick.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Remember them big wooden spoons people used to have on their wall? And the fork?

[Jennifer Arniece]

My mother, she had a ruler, and it was like an 18 inch ruler from her job, and it used to belong to a man named Mr. Bell, and it had his name on the back. So she would say, go get Mr. Bell.

[Lauren]

Oh, Lord.

[Jennifer Arniece]

So when you was going to get Mr. Bell, you was about to get your ass tore up. But there that again is rooted in chattel slavery that you punish someone, you change a behavior through physical punishment and the removal of acceptance, the removal of affection, the removal of attention. Actually, that's more violent, they say, than physical punishment. When you remove your affection from a child when they do something wrong, you know, or you ignore them when they're in the house, that really causes even. Even more damage. Right. But we weren't taught that. We were people who had feelings. And then we have to think about. People don't look at kids as human beings. You don't have feelings, you don't have emotions. Everything, Everybody's giving everything to you. So you can just. There's no reason for you to make this mistake. Right. And that is why evolution is so important and that we have these conversations because there are new pathways to parent. There are new pathways to relate to each other. Now, what.

[Lauren]

What's the biggest thing you had to change about how, like something you thought about yourself that you realized was like, from your mother wound, that I wasn't

[Jennifer Arniece]

worth loving, that I had to work to be loved, that I had to earn love, that I had to be perfect, that everything had to be right, that I couldn't make mistakes, that I didn't belong, that everybody else could be loved, but I couldn't be loved, that everybody else could get help, everybody else could fall down, have somebody help them get back up, but not me. Yeah, that's a heavy burden. And I think that's been the biggest thing with this work, is teaching other black women like, you don't have to earn love. You don't have to be a certain way to be loved. You can make a mistake, you can be bad at something, and you can get better at it. And, like, it doesn't change who you are. It doesn't change who you are. You are not broken.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yeah, that. That was the biggest thing,

[AT&T/Mint Mobile Announcer]

man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, a lot of black people grew up hearing things like, what happens in this house stays in this house. How much damage has secrecy done to generations of family secret?

[Jennifer Arniece]

See, it has created secrets and more secrets or more secrets where people can't be authentic, where people can't be themselves, where you can't say when you're hurt. And what happens is then you go out in the world and you create more damage. But so much of that is. Is the pride, you know? But that, again, is rooted in the dehumanization of black people that you have to show up a certain way. And at one point, it was violent if you didn't have it right. You know what I mean? Off the rip. And I. You have to update. That's what we have to change the culture of black parenting, because the secrecy is doing us way more harm than we could ever imagine.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The tough thing. Go get Lauren some tissue, please. Brandon. The tough thing about, you know, parenting is it don't come with no manual. You know what I mean? So the only thing I'm trying to do is be better than. Well, no, that's what I'm trying to do. The things that I know hurt me and traumatize me. I'm just trying not to do that to my. My kids.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yes. And that's great. I don't like when people say there's not a manual, okay? There are tons of books you can read about parenting. You don't might. You might not take them all from. You might not take them all to be, you know, the word. But there are tools out there, right? Because no matter what, when. Take the word parenting out of it. It's a relationship. Everything is a relationship between you and your kids, between you and your wife, between you and your parents, between you and your neighbor. It's just a relationship. So how do you have better relationships with people? We don't look at our kids as people. The respect that you want in the street, how you act at work, it's like, oh, there's a manual for that because you know you're gonna get fired if you don't do certain things.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Absolutely.

[Jennifer Arniece]

So there. There are ways. I think that's. I think people fall back on. That's like. Well, I mean, nobody told me there's no manual. I got to make it up as I go. You actually don't have to make it up as you go. There are professionals, there are books, there are resources.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What do you. But what, what about, you know, if I say people were never given the opportunity to actually become emotionally healthy before they became parents.

[Jennifer Arniece]

That is very true. And this is why I'm saying you're going to make mistakes.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Everybody's not going to get it right off.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Those mistakes can be crucial sometimes when you're dealing with kids. I think about me as a 47 year old about to be 48, still trying to heal from being 8. 9 things that happened when I was 8.

[Jennifer Arniece]

9. This is why that's the good thing about the time we live in now. And this work isn't about going backwards, it's about going forward. There's always going to be hard times. You know, I think about Martin Luther King Jr. He didn't see. He even said, I didn't see the mountaintop.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Arniece]

So he didn't get a chance to see it. I'm not going to get a chance to see all of this work. You know, my son is not going to be perfect. He's going to mess up with his kids. So this is legacy work that we just do because it's the right thing. And everybody's not every. This life. Everybody is harsh to say everybody's not going to make it right. But if you're moving forward, there are tools available. Do not get hooked on Instagram for being your tool for your mental health and mental wellness. I will say that. And I also want to say I'm not a therapist. Everything that I talk about is from the social data of my life, of living it every day.

[DJ Envy]

I was going to ask that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Jennifer Arniece.

[Jennifer Arniece]

No, I ain't never said that. You ain't going to play.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Ignore him.

[Jennifer Arniece]

I ain't ready.

[DJ Envy]

Ignore him.

[Jennifer Arniece]

You think I'm not. I already got it.

[DJ Envy]

I was going to ask.

[Jennifer Arniece]

I know where he from.

[DJ Envy]

You know, you said that there's books where people can read, but you know, even me and my wife, we wrote books on raising our kids. But what I realized is everybody's family is different. Right. Everybody's kids are different. Right. If that was the case, all my kids would be the same. But they're not. Like, you can talk to this one and this one will get it, but this one won't have any idea what you're saying. So there really is no Emmanuel. But what I wanted to ask you is going through your page, I seen that you have one podcast that seemed like it really resonated and I wanted to ask you why you felt that way. Right? And it was episode 27, where it was how to meet the needs your mother couldn't meet. Why did that resonate so much with

[Lauren]

people here, the whole interview?

[DJ Envy]

Why did that resonate so much with people? And what is the fix for that? I would say, or guess it's a

[Jennifer Arniece]

big deal because we have a dream of who our mother could be, and we have a dream of this relationship that could be. You know what I mean? And you know how you have Disney, you have the, you have Cinderella, you have all of that. That's us. Like, it's so deeply. Like, we want it so bad. We want her to show up for us in a certain way. So bad that we will neglect ourselves because we think she'll get it. I can, if I can show, I can't do it. She'll pick up, she'll pick up the piece and, and she'll meet the need. For me, I'm. It's like trying to toss the ball, you know, alley oop, alley oop. And the ball just keeps dropping and rolling. And then you, you have to come to the decision where it's like, oh, I've got a mother myself. I've got to let go of the fantasy of something that I will never have. And that's a grief and a heartbreak. Like you've, you've been, your, your heart broke a long time ago, but you've been holding it together. And then you finally realize in order for me to take care of myself, I've got to let my heart break.

[DJ Envy]

Isn't that a good thing?

[Jennifer Arniece]

I'm not saying it's not good, but

[DJ Envy]

it's hard because once you're a parent, you can, I don't want to say be, but you could want to be what you felt.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

This month, BET fan favorite series is stepping into the spotlight with their Paramount debut, delivering all the drama, desire and can't miss energy you've been waiting for. Scream new episodes of Tyler Perry's Divorced Sisters and catch up on new seasons of Zatima. Plus, don't miss all the Queen's Men and Tyler Perry's Ruthless, all now screaming on Paramount. Plus alongside even more BET content, It's the perfect time to revisit the stories you love and discover new ones along the way. Head to paramountplus.com to get started today.

[State Farm Announcer (Alternate)]

This past weekend, like every other Sunday, you were on the court with the guys, playing ball. Just a pickup game, living out your hoop dreams. No triple doubles, but a Mean set of threes in between buckets. One of the homies mentions he closed on a new crib. This is big. And while everyone's asking about the housewarming and making plans to celebrate, you're asking the real questions. Like, has he spoke to his State Farm agent yet about coverage? See, home ownership is one thing, but the right coverage is the real game changer. Even more than your last hot streak is how you protect your legacy. Dropping buckets and bars on the court. A State Farm agent can more than assist you with finding the right coverage for your new place. If you have a claim, your local agent can help you file it. Yep, that's right. Over the phone, in person, online, or on the app, they're ready to help you. And they don't drop the ball, if you know what I mean. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[DJ Envy]

Yo, what up, y'?

[Lauren]

All?

[DJ Envy]

It's DJ Envy from the Breakfast Club. Now check this out. The first phone call that ever happened happened over 150 years ago. 150 years. That's before any of this. Before radio, before social media, before all the ways we stay connected. Today, that one call really started everything. And fast forward to now. It's springtime, the weather's breaking, people outside vibes are right again. Thank God. And it got me thinking. Who haven't you talked to in a minute? And you know, through all these years and all these conversations, AT&T has been there, connecting people in meaningful ways. This is more than a story of technological innovation. It's really a story about human connection, real people, real moments, and real relationships. So we celebrate over 150 years of connection. Let this be your reminder. Don't wait. Make that call. Send that text. Pull up on somebody you care about. Because at the end of the day, those connections, that's what really matters.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Connecting changes everything.

[AT&T/Mint Mobile Announcer]

AT&T Amazon Health AI presents painful thoughts.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Why did I search the Internet for answers to my cold sore problem? Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole filled with images of alarmingly graphic sores in various stages of ooze. I can clear my search history, but

[Martha Stewart]

I can never unsee that.

[AT&T/Mint Mobile Announcer]

Don't go down the rabbit hole. Amazon Health AI gets you the right care fast. Healthcare just got less painful.

[DJ Envy]

Mother or your father left out in your life, right? Like for instance, right? My mom and dad did not talk to me as a quote unquote friend. They believe a child stays in a child place. I'm not your friend. Right. So what happens is you kind of have that wall when Something's going on. It's almost like there's a fear to talk to them because you don't want to get in trouble.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Right.

[DJ Envy]

My kids are little different. I'm like, tell me everything. Tell me what's going on so we can help. Now you might get in trouble, but I want you to talk. It's a different relationship, but I learned that from not having that with my parents. So it's kind of.

[Jennifer Arniece]

You learn it, you do, but not everybody learns it. Not every. You have to also look at envy. You have been exposed to lots of different things and people and situations that have taught you that you have to communicate. Do you understand? So I think all of those things make a difference as well. And yes, it is good, but it's heartbreaking still. I mean, that's like saying somebody dying. Well, it is good that they died because it made space for somebody else. Can't say that's what you say went to heaven, but it's still on earth. They gone. So you're making another space, you know. But for us, you get to say they died, they went to heaven. There's an ending.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Correct.

[Jennifer Arniece]

But when that person is still alive and they live up the road, but they're still. I'm dead to them, they're dead to me. What do you do with that type of finite grief? That's what you have to manage to live with. Like, it's a weight that you carry. And a lot of times women don't want to do the work because they don't want to have to live in that. And blooms and blossoms can come from that.

[Lauren]

But baby, I feel like that's where the generational passing down of it happens. Because, like, your mom doesn't even understand how to show for you because she didn't get it.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And then when you're old enough to do it better with your own kids and you're trying to teach it to them, it's like they're older now, so they're not understanding it. But also, like, she don't even. She doesn't even grasp the idea sometimes of, like, what you're talking through because it's just not there. Right.

[Jennifer Arniece]

And. And you. I also talk about this like we're animals, right? Just like there are different a horse parents, their babies, or elephant or a tiger, all those types of things. So I look at my job. My mother's job with me was to get me to a certain point. I have released her from all responsibility. I know how to take care of myself. She taught me Certain skills, there's certain things I've learned. You know, I can go out in the jungle and I can hunt because of her. I'm thankful for that. So now for me to say, and I want us to sit on the phone and I tell you all my dark secrets and you'll be there and you'll do this and you won't back. Like I'm asking too much.

[Lauren]

But you're okay with that every day though? Because I. I feel like I'm working through that right now. But some days I don't feel like that.

[Jennifer Arniece]

I don't. It's. It's time. I'm. I'm this hap. What? I'm 11 years in the game.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Arniece]

You know what I mean? It's like a muscle you gotta build, Lauren. And it does get hard. And that's why we talk about oh when you have kids. But it's so important for you to reparent the inner little girl. That's what this work is really all about in building community. Because we're putting our happiness in the hands of someone who can't hold it doesn't mean that we can't have happiness. It's so important to risk it with other people, to learn to be vulnerable with other people, to let them hold you, to let them help you, to be there for you. But, but that's a skill set. I mean I'm learning so many things for the first time in, in my 40s, in my 50s, it's. I ain't going. It's hard. And I have a child that I raise alone. At the same time me tired. Okay. But it's so worth it because what you gonna do? You're gonna hold, try and hold that hurt when you 80. So if it's hard now, when I'm 50, okay. When I'm 70, I'm gonna be chilling.

[DJ Envy]

Right.

[Jennifer Arniece]

So you just gotta, you gotta look at it in a more long term way.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I thought about the question just now. Right, but. And it's just, it's gonna go to a conversation. But what does healing actually look like if your parent never apologizes? But do parents have to apologize if they didn't even know what the hell they was doing?

[Jennifer Arniece]

Well, I'm not big on apology and I'm not big on forgiveness. That's not. I don't center those mean meaning healing my mother wound is not healing the relationship I have with my mother. It's healing the relationship I have with myself. And that's what I focus on. So if I'm focused on that. I don't need an apology from someone. What. I mean, I know you were doing what you knew how to do.

[DJ Envy]

What about the forgiveness part?

[Jennifer Arniece]

Forgiveness is understanding that things couldn't be any different than the way they were. That still has nothing to do with anybody else, you know, so that's the part. But you can't get to the acceptance until you heal the relationship you have with yourself. We want to start at the end. We want to. Well, you got to forgive her. You got to forgive her. I haven't even gone through. I haven't. Let me go through what I got to go through. Can I be angry?

[Lauren]

That's how my grandma is, though. She'd be like, it's your parent, it's your mom, it's your dad. You have to forgive.

[State Farm Announcer (Alternate)]

But in.

[Jennifer Arniece]

That's really a dehumanization. That's a person. Because if somebody was to hit me with a car and my leg is broke, my leg is broken.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right. That's right.

[Jennifer Arniece]

So am I going to focus on why they hit me with the car? Do they have a license? Did they have brakes? Or am I going to focus on how to repair my leg so I can go and live my life?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And that's part. That's a good example, though, because the person may not have hit you. No, he probably didn't hit you on purpose.

[Jennifer Arniece]

I don't care. It doesn't matter. Like, that's the whole thing. Why. Why are we. It doesn't matter.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Your leg is broke. You still gotta heal, and your healing is your responsibility. Gotcha.

[Jennifer Arniece]

That's what's important. And we are focusing on, well, why did they do what they did? And that is centering the other person. And it really leaves the person who's been wounded in the cold. Right. But because we have this thing of that's your parents, so that they. They have more power, they're more valuable because they're a parent. You're a child now. The thing is. And what does that mean? But now I'm a parent to somebody else. So how do we, like, siphon out value of a person?

[DJ Envy]

It's crazy because listening to Lauren, I kind of feel that way, right. With my parents. Right. If my parents do something I don't like, my first reaction is, how can I be mad? How can I be upset? How can I take it away? Because they. I look at it as they sacrificed their life to make sure I was good. They worked doubles and triples to put me in college. They did all this so that's just my mom.

[Jennifer Arniece]

And I don't believe in the debt either. My son doesn't owe me anything.

[DJ Envy]

True.

[Jennifer Arniece]

I chose to have him. I made that decision. Okay? He doesn't owe me anything. I don't want him to be like, well, I can't be. She's wrong. I don't want to be mad at her because she did this for me. No, I mess up because you're also kind of lying to yourself, but you're also in a place of power. You have autonomy over your life. So you being mad at them or not, I'm envy. You know what I mean? It is very much different for black girls because when we don't show up in a way that they approve of, the. The way that we get ignored, the way we get looked down at, the way we get chastised and punished, is not the same way that men. You know, y'. All. Y' all don't experience it the same way.

[Lauren]

So different for us too, though. I mean, but you're only child, so I don't know this works with you, but I feel like when you're the oldest black daughter in the family, talk about it. Oh, my God, everything.

[Jennifer Arniece]

You have to understand that we were raised to be of service to everyone. We were raised to reflect if our parents did a good job or not. That's what this is about. You know, Boys are not raised to be like, well, he's a boy, long as he ain't gay. We did our job, but a.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Your dad fell.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Did she go to college?

[DJ Envy]

Your dad did, too.

[Lauren]

I don't know if I could do your podcast, girl. You gonna be crying the whole time.

[Jennifer Arniece]

It's okay. Aww. It's good, though.

[Lauren]

Shut up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Good conversation.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yeah. We need this, right? Because when for us, we gotta not get pregnant, not be a whore, go to college, wear the right clothes, not wear too much makeup, have the right friends, speak the right way, have the. Everything has to be right. Otherwise, we're making her or him look. We're making our parents look bad. That's a lot of pressure, right? And then to be on top of it. Like, if you're taught that anything about your body, how black girls are sexualized at a young age. So it's like just you being you is a problem, you know? But I understand, because to be a free, flirty, curious black girl, you in the 40s could get you hung.

[DJ Envy]

Y.

[Jennifer Arniece]

So if you. If my mother came from outside Ellery, Santee, that area. So there is a. It's dangerous, but that's what I mean, the parenting hasn't updated because it's not dangerous anymore.

[Lauren]

That's the difference in how your gr. If you're the black girl in the family, especially the oldest, your grandmother talks to you from that. Like she's fearful. My grandma's fearful of everything I say, what I do, what I post, what I wear. Yes. My mom is more like, rebel, do what you need to do. But I'm still dealing with the. I'm second parent in the household.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yes, absolutely.

[Lauren]

Sometimes from a young age and having to have a hard conversation younger on, like, mom, like, I'm a child too, ma'.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Am. Right. But that's it. That is the, that is the wound. Because you don't get an opportunity to define who you are.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Arniece]

You don't get a chance to have the autonomy of how you feel. And our voice in our head is our mother or grandmother. And it's so powerful because it's like, dang, she told me that when I was five. Here I am, 45 and I'm still leading with that.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Arniece]

And. But now I look at my life, the fruit of my life is not where it should be because I have an out of, out of date thinking and thought process. So that's how it's going to continue to show up in your life.

[Lauren]

But do you ever feel like it's weird too? Because for me, I don't feel like I, I don't, I don't have any disdain or anything against my mom and my grandmother. Me and my mom had to work toward that though. Right. But like, I, I feel like I love and I value them so much differently now because they're older and I appreciate some of the things that have also traumatized me at the same time. It's a weird.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Well, that's what. Well, again, healing is a change in perspective. Right. It's a change in perspective. So two things can be true at the same time.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Arniece]

You know, but my mother, you know, whatever she put in front of us, that's what we had to eat. That was harsh back in the day. You know, but now I eat everything. My child eats everything. You know, I was, you know, so there, there, there's a give and take and also the mother wound. It's a spectrum. Everybody just. You can have a loving relationship with your mother and still have a wound. It doesn't mean that it's to the point. Like, I haven't spoken with my mother in over a decade where it's no contact. There's a spectrum. Right. But it really? Still all comes back to how you relate to yourself.

[DJ Envy]

Do you feel guilty? For.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You said you heal. You healed your mother wound, but I guess that's what you're saying. You can heal it.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Healing your mother wound is an ongoing process. Yeah, but healing my mother wound is not healing the relationship with my mother. It's healing the relationship with myself.

[DJ Envy]

Do you feel guilty at that, not having that relationship with your mom?

[Jennifer Arniece]

No, because I tried to have a relationship with her. I can't. I can't make somebody have a relationship with me that doesn't want to have a relationship with me. Or they. They only want to be with me on their own terms. I think at a point I felt guilty. But then when I realized, when she and I had that conversation, this is never going to change.

[DJ Envy]

And not to die, not. Not to get too personal, but this is your mom that raised you and then did everything. There's not one like a mom that you didn't know. This is your mom. Mom that raised you and everything that's been in your life. That's.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yes, I want you to hear what you're saying, because I'mma tell you how that sounds.

[DJ Envy]

No, because there's a different way of saying it. Like, if somebody's saying, I don't speak to my mom and my mom wasn't in my life, but I never.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Right.

[Jennifer Arniece]

But I.

[DJ Envy]

It's more understandable. But if somebody. I'm just. I'm just saying what it looks like to the outside world. But like, if a mom that was there for your. Your sweet 16 and was there for your graduation. Absentee mom.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Absentee versus absentee mom. But this is what you have to understand. You could be raised with someone every day in the home. They pay all the bills. You have somewhere to stay, and you still don't have a relationship with them, like you just mentioned.

[DJ Envy]

No, that's what I'm asking.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yeah. Yeah, but my. But there's still a spectrum, because from the outside, it was like, oh, my mother worked hard. We lived in a good neighborhood. My mother didn't come to my high school graduation. But even if she would have, I still have a right to acknowledge harm. I still have a right to acknowledge harm. And her. Her existing coexisting with me does not create a debt that now I owe my humanity. I owe my pain to her because she kept me alive. You know? So I think it's. It's how you phrase the question. It. It can be triggering to someone because it's like, what a. Well, I mean, what did she do. Did she beat you every. I mean, did you sleep in a closet? Like, it's really not bad enough for you to feel that way, you know? And again, that's where we don't allow people to have their experience when it's with a parent. Now, if I was just asking.

[DJ Envy]

Cause, you know, absentee mom is different than a present mom, right?

[Jennifer Arniece]

And not always.

[DJ Envy]

Well, why not?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because like she said, a present mom can still be absentee.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Right.

[Jennifer Arniece]

And an absent. And if you have an absentee mom, maybe you didn't get the harm. She didn't cause the harm. You had someone who was present that caused a lot of harm. Which would you rather have? So it's not cookie cutter. Every situation is so unique, and it's not for anyone on the outside to say how you respond to harm. That's dehumanizing to tell someone, oh, this is how you should respond to them hurting you because they have a certain title, because they've paid a certain amount of money, because they've gone without something that you can repay them with your pain and quietly and put a smile on your face while you're at it.

[DJ Envy]

So do you look at your mom? This is going to sound crazy, but do you look at your mom as a regular friend, or is there a hierarchy of how you look at family members and relationships? Right. Because I look at my mom as a different hierarchy than I look at, let's say, a friend. Let's say Lauren does something to me that hurts my heart, and my mom does the same thing. I can cut Lauren off in a minute, but even though it hurt me the same, it cut me the same, just as deep. I'm not cutting off my mom because of. Not just she had me, but the sacrifices she did to make sure that my life was better than hers.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Well, I guess you have to look at if someone has lived with a person and there has been consistent harm, that is not the same as to say, she didn't call me today. That's very. That's very different.

[DJ Envy]

Of course.

[Jennifer Arniece]

You know what I mean? And did you know the things that our parents do, that's what they choose to do. I don't believe in the debt. I don't. You know, I don't want my son to do well in school because of what I sacrificed, because it's not sustainable. You know what I mean? And it's not authentic. So you don't have. I don't. You. You can make any choice you want to, but don't make a choice. Just because someone has a title.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I agree. When I. When I pray for. When I pray to God to take negativity out of my life, sometimes he might swing at people that you wouldn't expect, like, oh, your mom, your dad, whoever it is. And if you got to cut them off, you got to cut them off.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yeah. Because this is the thing, the way we learn to relate in our parent, daughter, parent, child relationships, we take that out into the world, right? So imagine your daughter is with a man, and he takes. He's got money. He. He has sacrificed for her, and they're married now. He's done all the things she wanted to do, but she's not happy with him. He demeans her. He's cruel to her behind bar, but not behind bars. You know, behind closed doors. And it's like you, you're going to come and say, leave him, leave him. And she. She's like, I can't. He's done so much for me. He's made so many sacrifices for me. I'm gonna look ungrateful. Nobody's gonna love me the way he is. Where did she learn that? She learned that modeling in her, her home when she was growing up. So you is very tricky to teach people to behave in that way because they're going to take it outside and say that same hierarchy of mother. She gonna say, well, he's husband. He's a husband. He's my son's father. I have to give this type of credence and this type of grace to them, and that's dangerous. So you have to really look at how that first relationship, the one with your parents, shapes you, because it will impact all of your relationships moving forward,

[Charlamagne Tha God]

but it can create a pimple down there.

[DJ Envy]

But also.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, I'm serious.

[DJ Envy]

No, you're right. But as a father, the reason why I pour into my daughter and teach her how to have her own and help her have her own so she's never in a situation like that.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Right?

[DJ Envy]

Like that's the reason why.

[Jennifer Arniece]

But you're also a father with those types of resources.

[DJ Envy]

But, but, but, but when I didn't, it was. The goal of my life was to make sure my kids are happy, right? Not wealthy, not rich, happy that they can sat. They can have a life, whatever they want to do. If they want to do nails, if they want to be an author, if they want to do podcasts. But be happy. Because life is short. Most people work to get money and never happy, right? So the whole focus was to make sure my kids are happy and Self sufficient. So they never have to rely on a situation where I'm here because this man is paying the bill, but it's

[Jennifer Arniece]

not reliance because she has to. She might have the money, but it's still a social currency to have a husband in this country and he's doing all the right things. And my dad, you liked him, dad, you like him. She don't like him no more, but you still like him because you don't see the dynamic that they have. So some of these things you're. You haven't gotten to yet because your, your kids aren't old enough.

[DJ Envy]

Well, one of them is, but they up there.

[Lauren]

Right.

[DJ Envy]

I got a 24 year old.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Right.

[Jennifer Arniece]

But even 24 is still young. You know what I mean? So some of these choices that they're going to make, you, you no matter what, you're going to look back and

[DJ Envy]

be like, absolutely, absolutely.

[Jennifer Arniece]

You know, but conversation though. Yeah, but we, but you do have to be very careful with those hierarchies because they can be applied anywhere. And if you live and die on that hill is dangerous.

[Lauren]

I was going to ask, like you've never thought about like, but you're not speaking to your mom and I know you tried before, like, what if there is not another day to even think about having the option to try like how you would feel in that type of situation.

[Jennifer Arniece]

I mean, what you mean?

[DJ Envy]

Like you said, if your mom.

[Jennifer Arniece]

I don't have an answer because I've made peace with it. I mean, it's hard. This is a hard conversation because I know I sound cold blooded.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Nah, I could tell you got to this point.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yeah, I've gotten. Yeah. Because I'm not angry.

[DJ Envy]

But we don't know the ins and outs of your relationship too.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yeah. And it's not, it's not a. I'm not mad at her, you know, but I do feel like my mother doesn't speak to any of her kids. Right. And I feel like she has done all she can do. This is where she's at peace. So why am I going to bring my. If, if you being in relationship with me upsets you, why would I put. Why would I do that to you? That would be selfish. That's again me trying to make her be someone that she's not. I get it. So if she is happy with the arrangement, I honor that. That is how I honor her as my mother. That I have released you from responsibility of having to be anything that you're not to manage to be in a space with me. If you know That I might trigger certain things in you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I know the answer to this question. But you feel forgiven. Do you think forgiveness is necessary for healing? Or is acceptance just enough?

[Jennifer Arniece]

Is forgive. I. I think that. I don't. I. I think that forgiveness is a footnote. I think you can see something in different perspective then you. You've done your work. How you see that person. Whether you call it forgiveness or not. Forgiveness is not the goal because then you're centering the other person. I just think forgiveness is. Is a footnote in healing because healing is selfish and it should be. When you start talking about forgiveness, you dilute that down. And if you're someone who's always had to give and give and give and. And put other people first. We good. I accept it. I'm cool. We cool with it or without it? I'm cool.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. Yeah. That's. I mean, I remember having a conversation with my dad when I was 40, and he just told me everything that he does it.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yeah, I remember you talking about that,

[Charlamagne Tha God]

you know, and it. And. And that. That just gave. I gave him so much grace. Like, I was just like.

[Jennifer Arniece]

You saw him as a human being. That's all. It's not like, oh, I was right. And I made. It's like, oh, damn, you're a real person going through some.

[DJ Envy]

That's right.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Oh, I can see why that happened. That made. That's why I said the m. Being. Being an imperfect parent sometimes can make you a better parent because now we can see each other. And that removes the hierarchy. The hierarchy is needed for care. But when the care is over, do we still need the hierarchy? That's why I don't like the word respect your elders. Respect, respect. Because it's. It's. Who gets the respect that only benefits one person, and that's the older person. You know what I mean? So I think that humanizing is what's. Is what's most important.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

If somebody listening right now realizes they carry a mother wound, what's the first step toward healing without, you know, drowning in anger or blame?

[Jennifer Arniece]

Well, you may. You may go to anger and blame first. Again, that's okay. Whatever you feel is okay. The thing is, you're not by yourself. You're not making it up. You're not exaggerating. And to start to do the work with yourself and really de. Centering the relationship with your.

[DJ Envy]

I know.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Why is it doing that, though?

[Lauren]

You might be playing something.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You turned on a pod.

[Jennifer Arniece]

I didn't. I don't even know.

[DJ Envy]

Might have been Siri. Siri Play Black Mother Wound podcast.

[Lauren]

Scroll down from the top and press pause. Scroll down from the top. Like as if we can edit this.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So don't worry about it.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Okay. I am so sorry. I don't even know where that's coming. Let me just put that.

[DJ Envy]

That's all right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You want to start with the question over?

[Jennifer Arniece]

Yeah, you start with the question over.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The question was. Hold on one second. If somebody listening realizes they carry a mother wound, what's the first step toward healing?

[Jennifer Arniece]

I mean, acknowledging that you're not alone, you're not by yourself, you're not making it up, and you're not exaggerating and that healing your mother wound is not about healing the relationship with your mother, it's about healing the relationship you have with yourself and how you work through that. There are different ways to do that. You can work through that, through therapy. You can work through that joining in, being a part of my community. You can do that by laying in the bed crying and just wailing your owls out. Like whatever you're going through, you have a right to go through it. Right? And that this is not like a 30 days in and out and it's fixed. This is a lifelong process. If you've been going through something for 40 years, don't think in six months you going to be done with it. Okay. This is a commitment that you make to yourself.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Jennifer Arniece, first of all, she got a book out called that Cape. That's right. The grown woman's Unapologetic guy. To putting herself first.

[DJ Envy]

Okay, great conversation.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Make sure you go pick that up.

[Lauren]

Thank you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And subscribe to the Black Mother Wound podcast on the Black Effect Podcast Podcast network. You are having some necessary conversations.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Absolutely. And I have a live event coming in Charlotte in July.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When is it? Give them.

[Jennifer Arniece]

It's on July 11th. We're doing a live podcast recording Fireside Chat. Live coaching. So you can go to my website over@blackmother wound.com or jennifer arniece.com and you can get a ticket. Bring a friend. Tell a friend to tell a friend.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Absolutely. Subscribe to the Black Mother W podcast, y'. All.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Definitely.

[DJ Envy]

It's Jennifer Arnie.

[Jennifer Arniece]

Thank you for having me.

[DJ Envy]

It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Hold up. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club.

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[Jennifer Arniece]

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[DJ Envy]

It's not just for celebrities. Some so do like I did and

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[Lauren]

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