← The Breakfast Club
The Breakfast Club
INTERVIEW: Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis Talk ‘Nothing But Hits,’ Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, Michael Jackson, Prince, Music Culture & Producing + More
00:33:52
Loading summary
Transcript271 lines
- [00:00]
Host/Announcer
This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human
- [00:05]
iHeart Podcast Awards Announcer
next Monday, our 2026 iHeart podcast awards are happening live at south by Southwest.
- [00:10]
Jimmy Jam
This is the biggest night in podcasting.
- [00:12]
iHeart Podcast Awards Announcer
We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry.
- [00:18]
Amanda Knox / Jo (Spirit Daughter Podcast Host)
And the winner is.
- [00:20]
iHeart Podcast Awards Announcer
Creativity, knowledge and Passion will all be on full display.
- [00:24]
Amanda Knox / Jo (Spirit Daughter Podcast Host)
Thank you so much iheartradio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome.
- [00:28]
iHeart Podcast Awards Announcer
Watch Live next Monday at 8pm Eastern, 5pm Pacific free@veeps.com or the Veeps app.
- [00:36]
Aygo Wodom
Aigo Wodom is your host for the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards live at south by Southwest.
- [00:41]
Terry Lewis
Hello?
- [00:42]
Lily Herman
Is anybody there?
- [00:42]
Aygo Wodom
Raised by a single mom, Aego may have a few father related issues.
- [00:46]
Terry Lewis
Are we supposed to talk about your dad?
- [00:48]
Aygo Wodom
Her podcast, thanks dad is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors including fellow SNL alums, comedians, musicians and more about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers.
- [00:59]
Host/Announcer
I think and hope that's a good thing.
- [01:00]
Aygo Wodom
Get to know Aygo follow Thanks dad with aygowodom and start listen on the free iHeartRadio app today.
- [01:06]
Jay Shetty
Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Hilary Duff, singer, actress and multi platinum artist.
- [01:15]
Amanda Knox / Jo (Spirit Daughter Podcast Host)
You desire in family like this picture and that's not reality. My sister and I don't speak. It's definitely a very painful part of my life and I hope it's not forever, but it's for right now.
- [01:29]
Jay Shetty
Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:36]
Lily Herman
Ready for a different take on Formula one? Look no further than no Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the underexplored pockets of F1, including the astrology of the current grid, the story of the sport's most consequential driver strike, and plenty of other mishaps, scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful day decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no Grip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:06]
Amanda Knox / Jo (Spirit Daughter Podcast Host)
I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? Evidence has been made to fit the
- [02:21]
Terry Lewis
moment you look at the whole Picture, the case collapses.
- [02:23]
Amanda Knox / Jo (Spirit Daughter Podcast Host)
What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh, my God. I think she might be innocent. List doubt the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:38]
Terry Lewis
Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up.
- [02:40]
DJ Envy
The Breakfast Club.
- [02:44]
Charlamagne Tha God
Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne, the guy. We are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRosa is here as well. We got some special guests in the building.
- [02:53]
DJ Envy
Who we got who we got some icons, some legends. They back.
- [02:55]
Charlamagne Tha God
This is their second time on the show. Ladies and gentlemen, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.
- [03:00]
Terry Lewis
Welcome.
- [03:00]
Jay Shetty
Hi.
- [03:01]
Jimmy Jam
Thank you for having us.
- [03:02]
Host/Announcer
How are y', all, man?
- [03:04]
Jimmy Jam
A little wet. Cause it's raining.
- [03:06]
Host/Announcer
Y' all stay true to the uniform,
- [03:08]
Charlamagne Tha God
though, now, you know, usually it's the suit. They don't got the suit on today.
- [03:10]
Terry Lewis
No, no, it's giving. It's winter. It's winter. It's like, you know, we trying to be. Gotta stay warm, you know? That's right.
- [03:17]
Charlamagne Tha God
Well, how y' all feeling, first and foremost?
- [03:18]
Jimmy Jam
Oh, I feel great, man. You know, busy. I like that. But if I'm not busy, I gotta get busy being busy. So that's just what it is.
- [03:27]
Charlamagne Tha God
Do younger artists reach out to you guys like they should? I mean. Cause you put up so many hits on the board, so many points on the scoreboard. I wonder if the younger artists really say, you know what? I gotta tap in with Jimmy Jam
- [03:39]
Terry Lewis
and Terry Lewis sometimes. Sometimes. I mean, what happens now is because so many of the artists are tapping into the 80s and the 90s, they're either sampling our stuff, or they'll just call and say, hey, will you get down with me and do some stuff? You know, so, yeah, so that definitely is happening. Which I. I think is very cool,
- [03:57]
Charlamagne Tha God
you know, and if you don't know, if you're just joining us, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Icons, legend. They work with artists from Janet Jackson, Michael Jackson, Prince, Usher, Mary J. Blige, Mariah Carey, everybody, man. Boys to men.
- [04:07]
Terry Lewis
New Edition.
- [04:07]
Charlamagne Tha God
Shaka Khan, Tony Braxton.
- [04:08]
Terry Lewis
Wow.
- [04:09]
Charlamagne Tha God
Her SOS Band, Yolanda Adams, just to name a few.
- [04:12]
DJ Envy
I don't even like to say that y' all worked with those artists. Those artists worked with y' all because y' all shaped y'. All. Did y' all shape culture? There was a period where y' all sound is what absolutely positively shaped culture.
- [04:23]
Terry Lewis
Well, it's a team sport, you know, It's a team sport. I mean, we work with really talented people. I always say we work with talented people, they make us look good, you know, so that's what it is. And it's a team sport, even, you know, us being here with y' all today because we could make all the music we would want to, and if there wasn't a delivery system where people could actually hear it with all y' all talking us up or playing our songs and that, that's. It's like the tree that falls in the forest and nobody knows about it. So Terry has a theory on that. He says we don't make hits, we just make music.
- [04:53]
Jimmy Jam
Y' all make it hits Everybody, everybody, everybody makes it, takes the whole ecosystem, create a hit.
- [04:59]
DJ Envy
Do you think producers today still shape culture the way that y' all did? Or has, like the algorithm replaced the producer ear, so to speak?
- [05:10]
Jimmy Jam
I don't think algorithms will ever replace anything. That's just people who don't know having a way to know something still. It comes from the gut, man. What makes people feel something. What makes the hair on your arm stand up, you know, it makes you get goosebumps. That's. That's what moves the needle. All the rest of it, man, is just people talking about things that they don't know nothing about. Yeah, it went that way this way. Trending is trending that way. But it doesn't always trend the way that you want it to go or what you think is going to do. And if someone knew that equation, oh, man, everybody have a hit, everything they do would be.
- [05:45]
Terry Lewis
That's right.
- [05:45]
Charlamagne Tha God
You know, we just recently had Teddy
- [05:47]
Jimmy Jam
Riley up here, right?
- [05:47]
Charlamagne Tha God
We were talking the new Jack swing era, and we talk about Teddy and Keith. And I was. I was thinking to myself, shouldn't Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis's name be added to creating that new Jack swing sound? And do you ever feel a way when sometimes you guys are not mentioned in that, in that creation of that.
- [06:05]
Terry Lewis
I feel like Teddy is a king of new Jack swing, meaning that he took that style, patented it, and gave us something to all be a part of or follow along with it. I feel like the first new Jack swing song, although there was no title for it, there was no moniker for it, is probably Janet Jackson Nasty, which was Control album, which is 40 years ago this year. So we saw make Everybody feel old. 40 years ago that album came out. But that's. I think that. And I remember the first time we heard I Want her by Keith. And I remember we were with Babyface in la. We were just hanging out in a club and that song came on and we all thought it was nasty at first because, like the little, like the little synthesizer parts. And then Babyface said, oh, no. LA said, oh, no, that's Keith Sweat. That's Keith Sweat. And I said, oh, yeah, Keith Sweat. That's dope. I like that. And then Babyface goes, yeah, Keith's cool, but the dude behind him, Teddy Riley, he's the one. So Face was the one that really turned us on to Teddy Riley and love what Teddy does. So I think we're part of it, but I think there's no question that he's the king of New Jack's wing. And by the way, and I'll tell you a quick Teddy Riley story. So I always said my theory was the foundation of hip hop was always James Brown, right? It was always based on Funky Drummer or the Lynn Collins think, you know, the tambourine. And that was across so many hip hop records. But I always said the foundation of New Jack swinging was KC and the Sunshine Band.
- [07:34]
Jimmy Jam
Ooh, yes, sir.
- [07:35]
Terry Lewis
Right? And everybody, everybody said, no, no, what are you talking. What are you talking about? So when I interviewed, I had a show on SiriusXM back in the day, and I actually interviewed Teddy and I told him that theory and he laughed and he said, oh, my God. He said, can I tell you something? He said, you know the bass line of I Want Her? And he goes, doom, doom, doom, doom, boom, boom, right? He said, that's the way I like it. KC and the Sunshine Band. If you listen to that song, it's the same bass line. The other foundation of that is I Get Lifted. That. That's Casey and the Sunshine band. George McCray sang the song, but KC and the Sunshine Band played it and produced it.
- [08:16]
Charlamagne Tha God
Wow.
- [08:16]
Terry Lewis
And so he said, yeah, you're absolutely right. So I was like, okay, cool. So now I can go to people that think I'm nuts and go, no, I got it from. I got it from the guy. But Teddy's amazing. Absolutely amazing.
- [08:25]
Host/Announcer
The more conversations that I'm a part of here where I learned so much about, like, music history, I'm like, is there ever going to really be a way to really archive all of the hip hop, R and B soul, like, real music history? Because every time I talk to somebody, I learned something new or a different angle or way to think about it. Like, do you guys think we'll ever really be able to document all of it in.
- [08:44]
DJ Envy
We're doing it right now?
- [08:45]
Jimmy Jam
Yeah, I think you can. It's just that for music, I don't think anyone can take credit because everything is Based on something else. You know, the shoulders that we stand on dictate kind of where we can see our purview on something. And so everybody has something in their ear that affects them in another way, and we just keep taking in another place. But it all is based on the same stuff. So nobody can claim credit for anything because, like, kc, that was my favorite stuff. You know, that was my.
- [09:15]
Terry Lewis
That was your theme song, right?
- [09:16]
Jimmy Jam
Yeah.
- [09:17]
Terry Lewis
Do a little dance I'll be in
- [09:18]
Jimmy Jam
the club yeah Do a little dance Take a little love get down the back yeah, I come there with the swag.
- [09:24]
Terry Lewis
Yeah, that's right.
- [09:24]
Jimmy Jam
Yeah, that's right. That was it. So.
- [09:26]
Host/Announcer
Well, congratulations on your Las Vegas residency coming in April.
- [09:30]
Terry Lewis
Thank you.
- [09:31]
Host/Announcer
How does it feel to have that?
- [09:32]
Charlamagne Tha God
That's a.
- [09:33]
Jimmy Jam
That's big.
- [09:33]
Host/Announcer
That's nice.
- [09:34]
Terry Lewis
You know, about. Probably we might have talked a little bit about it when we did our album, when we did our Jamming Lewis Volume one album. But we had said back at that time, there was three things we wanted to do. We wanted to work with Babyface, which we ended up doing, which was great. We said we wanted to do our own album, which we did Jam and Lewis Volume One. There's Volume two is on the way. But then we also said we want to go play our own music live. Because if you think about it, we started off before we were songwriters and producers. We were musicians, you know, playing in bands and playing everybody else's hit songs. And that was part of our learning process, part of our education, how we learned to even songwrite and produce. And so now going back full circle for us, we get a chance to play some hit songs, but they just happen to be ours and. And go back to our musician roots. So we're really, really excited about it. And Vegas is a perfect place to do it. And we got a nice little room called Voltaire at the Venetian Resort. And it's going to be nothing but hits, as we call it. But we're also going to be telling the stories behind the songs, like the way those songs were made and all that. And we think it's going to be a great little format, a little time travel, a little virtual time Travel.
- [10:43]
DJ Envy
So all 42 Billboard number ones we
- [10:45]
Terry Lewis
going to hear, we going, well, we going to get as many as we possibly can. Yeah, we definitely, definitely are. I tell people it's going to be more of a. More of a tasting menu. Like, we're not going to do like whole seven minute remix of seven minutes long. Yeah, yeah. No, we're not gonna do that. But. But we'll hit you. We'll hit you with that intro. We'll get you there, you know, verse, chorus, you know, might hit a bridge or something. Gotta hit bridges. Cause we love bridges. We gotta hit the bridges and whatever, and then, boom, we ride on to the next. So it's more like a mixtape or more like if a DJ's doing a mashup, it's more that kind of thing.
- [11:14]
Charlamagne Tha God
Now you guys work with so many people. I'm sure all these artists will be there. Will it be some of those things where somebody's in town and be like, so and so's on the stage?
- [11:23]
Terry Lewis
Yeah.
- [11:23]
Charlamagne Tha God
Jada Jackson's here, ladies and gentlemen.
- [11:24]
DJ Envy
It's the 40 year anniversary of Control.
- [11:27]
Terry Lewis
It absolutely is. Well, the thing that happened for us was we kind of tested this concept. We went to Japan. We did like, I think 16 shows in Japan or something like that in the past couple of years just to kind of test the concept of what it is. And what happens is, if you have friends in the audience, most of the time, they'll want to come on stage. So we did a show in Atlanta during Labor Day last year. And for instance. And I will say Ruben Studdard is our kind of our male singer, because he can handle anything from, you know, Alexander o' Neill to Usher to whatever. And when we started doing Bad Girl, he just walked where Usher was sitting, and Usher was there watching, just enjoying the show. And he kind of looked at Usher and, like. And Usher got on stage, hit, you know, hit Bad Girl, hit you remind me. And it was like, oh, okay. So we always say you never know who's gonna show, and that's the way we look. And, you know, listen, we talked to Dr. Dre yesterday. He said he's gonna come. He's gonna come play cowbell is what he said. I said, we'll put a cowbell up in the front on the catwalk. Yeah, on the catwalk.
- [12:28]
Jimmy Jam
Cowbell on the catwalk.
- [12:29]
Terry Lewis
Cowbell on the catwalk. We got a catwalk that goes out in the audience, which is cool. So everybody gets a good seat and stuff. It's gonna be a lot of fun, man. And, yeah, there's gonna be a lot of friends dropping through. And you never know. Each night's gonna be different. We're doing six nights. It's a limited residency, but each night will be a little bit different.
- [12:45]
Host/Announcer
How did the residency come about?
- [12:48]
Terry Lewis
It was a friend of ours who just was a huge Jam and Lewis fan and happened to have a room in Vegas and said, you guys should come to my room and play. And we just said, okay, let's check it out. And then we went to the venue, and the venue was just perfect.
- [13:04]
Jimmy Jam
Gorgeous.
- [13:05]
Terry Lewis
Yeah, it's beautiful. And we just thought, okay, yeah, I think we could do something here. Really cool. And like, I say, we want to. We're at the point of our careers where we want to do things we haven't done yet. And this fits perfectly in that slot of things we haven't done yet.
- [13:18]
Lily Herman
Have you.
- [13:18]
Terry Lewis
Hold on.
- [13:19]
DJ Envy
I'm watching y', all, and I saw your man with all of those. Please tell me that that's a line of glasses. Tell me that, y'.
- [13:25]
Jimmy Jam
All.
- [13:25]
Terry Lewis
Yes, that's a line of glasses. Can I get one, please? Yes, but I have to make sure there's. There's assorted. You know, we gotta make sure. Okay, okay, we got you. We got you. We got you. Okay. Okay, so what do we. What do we got? Terry Lewis.
- [13:41]
Jimmy Jam
These are the Jimmy jams.
- [13:45]
Terry Lewis
These are like I'm wearing right here.
- [13:46]
DJ Envy
So what's the difference between the Jimmy Jam and the Terry Lewis?
- [13:48]
Terry Lewis
Okay, you got the Terry Lewis right there.
- [13:50]
Jimmy Jam
We fit in the seat.
- [13:51]
Terry Lewis
Okay, Because I got a Terry Lewis right here. Let me know.
- [13:57]
Charlamagne Tha God
I need. I need the Jimmy jean. I need the big ones.
- [13:58]
Terry Lewis
Which one is really.
- [13:59]
DJ Envy
I'm getting a little older.
- [14:03]
Terry Lewis
Yeah, we need. Definitely need to do that. Okay, so wait a minute. Which one. Which one did you. Who wanted a Terry Lewis? You. You got her. You got her. You got a Jimmy jam?
- [14:12]
Jimmy Jam
Yes.
- [14:12]
Terry Lewis
All right, so then.
- [14:14]
Jimmy Jam
Then there's a female pair, too.
- [14:15]
Terry Lewis
Oh, yeah.
- [14:16]
Charlamagne Tha God
Okay, there we go.
- [14:17]
Terry Lewis
Which one is a female?
- [14:19]
Charlamagne Tha God
I'm doing my interview like this now.
- [14:21]
Host/Announcer
It look nice.
- [14:22]
Terry Lewis
All right, that's the jam, right?
- [14:24]
DJ Envy
Oh, those hard. What's those jams?
- [14:26]
Terry Lewis
Jimmy Jam. All right, so right there, man. My brother there. Thank you.
- [14:28]
Charlamagne Tha God
Thank you so much.
- [14:29]
Host/Announcer
Female pair. Yes.
- [14:32]
Terry Lewis
Nice. Wait, wait.
- [14:33]
DJ Envy
But how do you know the difference? Because they both say Jam and Lewis.
- [14:36]
Host/Announcer
Sometimes it's the same.
- [14:36]
Charlamagne Tha God
You can see the difference.
- [14:37]
Terry Lewis
It's just the shape of them.
- [14:38]
DJ Envy
Oh, gosh.
- [14:39]
Jimmy Jam
Let me see.
- [14:40]
Host/Announcer
Let me see you. Okay, girl.
- [14:43]
Terry Lewis
That's the female right there. Okay, There you go.
- [14:44]
Jimmy Jam
Yeah, that'll look great on her.
- [14:46]
DJ Envy
That is funny, though, because y' all are shaped differently.
- [14:51]
Host/Announcer
I love the bag suit, because you could also use this as a cute little purse.
- [14:54]
DJ Envy
Thank you very much.
- [14:54]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah, thank you so much.
- [14:55]
Terry Lewis
How can people order this?
- [14:56]
Charlamagne Tha God
If they want to order it, though,
- [14:57]
Terry Lewis
we give credit to. To Terry's wife, actually, Indira. She's our merchant Manager.
- [15:01]
Host/Announcer
Okay. So she.
- [15:01]
Terry Lewis
So she's the one to make sure that it's not only the product itself, but the way it's packaged.
- [15:05]
Host/Announcer
Yes.
- [15:05]
Terry Lewis
The whole thing. And if you notice there's a little case, a little thing in there for your cloth that's, you know, basically our.
- [15:11]
Host/Announcer
This is geniuses in the bag.
- [15:13]
Terry Lewis
Yeah.
- [15:14]
Charlamagne Tha God
So how can people get these? Because, I mean, we're talking about them. Somebody might want to order. How can they order these?
- [15:17]
Terry Lewis
So Flight Time Lifestyle is on Instagram. That's the place to go. And if you go to Flight Time Lifestyle, it's F L Y T E T Y M E Lifestyle. And you can go there and there's a link to get you to the actual merch. And we'll have these in Vegas and, you know. But you can have yours. Get yours now, and then you can wear them to Vegas when you come,
- [15:36]
Jimmy Jam
you know, when it's sunny.
- [15:37]
Terry Lewis
When it's sunny and get Vegas.
- [15:38]
DJ Envy
Yes.
- [15:38]
Terry Lewis
Yeah. Because y' all need to come and y' all need to get out of this rain and all this crazy stuff. And I tell people it's a great excuse to go to Vegas.
- [15:45]
Host/Announcer
Is this the first time that you guys are ever approached about a residency?
- [15:49]
Terry Lewis
We were. We did one other one. Well, for us. Yes. For Jimmy and Terry. Yes. We did do a residency with the Time, with our group the time. Gotcha right after we did the Grammys back in 2004, maybe. I can't say. I don't remember what year it was.
- [16:05]
Jimmy Jam
I can't remember yesterday.
- [16:08]
Terry Lewis
No. I always say I remember 40 years ago, better than 40 minutes ago. But, you know, that's how it goes. But we were approached because we performed on the Grammys that year. It was the 50th anniversary of the Grammys, and we performed with Rihanna, actually. And I remember when we came off, everybody said, hey, what are y' all gonna do? And we said, this is just a one off. And they said, no, no. And then a guy that actually ran the Flamingo Hotel, Tony Braxton, was appearing there, but Tony was having some health problems, and he said, I got three weeks that I can put y' all in if y' all wanna do a residency. So as the Time we did a residency, and it was during the summer, and it was great. It was probably the best summer vacation we ever had.
- [16:43]
Jimmy Jam
It was the greatest.
- [16:43]
Terry Lewis
Yeah.
- [16:44]
Jimmy Jam
That our families would just do what you love, man, and be done by. You know, we go on at 7. We're done by 9, and we're having dinner with our family.
- [16:51]
Terry Lewis
Yes.
- [16:51]
Jimmy Jam
It was great.
- [16:52]
Terry Lewis
Terry said it's the least we ever worked in our life.
- [16:54]
Jimmy Jam
I never worked that.
- [16:55]
Terry Lewis
It was great.
- [16:56]
DJ Envy
I always wonder about that time with the time. No pun intended. But how did Prince contribute to y' all growth as just producers, musicians, artists, everything?
- [17:07]
Terry Lewis
I don't know. I'll start off by saying the reason we're here is because of Prince. I mean, Prince was the one that. I mean, I met Prince in junior high school. We went to junior high school together, took piano classes together and stuff. We both knew how to play, but it just got outside of class a little bit, you know. But he was the one that really. And I will say Morris Day, because Morris actually wrote. There's a song called Party up on the Dirty Mind album. And Morris actually wrote that song or the track to that song because Warners wanted, you know, Prince to do something a little more funky because he had gone into his, you know, more of his rock thing. And Morris gave that song to Prince. And Prince said, what do you want? He said, I'll give you, you know, I'll give you 30 grand or I'll give you whatever amount of money. He said, or I'll get you a record deal. And Morris said, I'll take the record deal. And Morris said, okay. And then Prince said, put a band together and, you know, we'll get you going. And Morris came to our band, and we were actually like a competing band of Morris back in the day. But he came to us and said, okay, y' all gonna be the band. And we're like, okay, cool. And that's what got us going. That was back in 81. So that was the thing that got us going and put us on the map. So. All thanks to Prince. All thanks to Morris Day. They were the ones that startled us. And of course, we got, you know, as we. The famous story we got fired by Prince. But Terry likes to say he didn't fire us. He freed us. And literally the same night that Prince freed us. Yes, we were at Sunset Sound, he freed us. We went over to a studio called Larrabee, right across, you know, the Way, and ended up mixing what became our very first hit. And that was just Be Good to Be by the SOS band. So literally the same night we got Freedom, we had our first hit. And, you know, the rest is history after that. Very much A Hollywood story.
- [18:43]
Jimmy Jam
Well, God knows, bro.
- [18:44]
Terry Lewis
Yeah, God definitely knows.
- [18:45]
Charlamagne Tha God
What's your thoughts on it on AI?
- [18:47]
DJ Envy
Oh, I do want to ask one other question. I'm sure y' all still maintain the relationship with Prince after that. I think when people have these conversations about, like, who's. Who's the greatest artist of all time, I don't think they really understand what people like Prince did or even like a Stevie Wonder. The fact that they could write, sing, produce, play instruments. Like they. Not just singing a song somebody wrote and dancing.
- [19:11]
Jimmy Jam
Right?
- [19:11]
Terry Lewis
Yeah. You know, I think the impact. I mean, you feel it's a ripple effect. And that's the thing that you. When you talk about Prince and think about this, he played every instrument. His debut album, to me, is like the best debut album of all time. Cause he played every instrument. He played, sang every note, wrote every song. I mean, he did everything on that record. And so that was his thing. But if you think about it, the way we dressed, the way we. And if you think about the ripple effect now, when you hear, like a Bruno Mars. There's no Bruno Mars without Prince. And he acknowledges that. Matter of fact, Bruno Mars thanks us. He's like, when he had 24 karat and all that stuff out, he was like, thank you, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. So to me, that's the ripple effect. And that's all because of Prince and the fact that we're still here. We get a chance to be blessed to talk to you guys today. That's because of Prince. So that's that ripple effect. So when you talk about the greatest, Some of it is what they did in the moment, but also that ripple effect that they have, you know, and Prince's. There's nobody better.
- [20:10]
Charlamagne Tha God
To me, I was asking, you know, what's your thoughts on AI? And the fact that some of these artists now are using AI to be an artist, you know, what's your thoughts on that? And they're using it to create music and create sounds. What's your thoughts on that?
- [20:23]
Jimmy Jam
I have a lot of thoughts.
- [20:25]
Terry Lewis
Let's talk.
- [20:25]
Jimmy Jam
You want thoughts or feelings? My feelings say, okay, I don't like the concept, but the facts are the facts. It's here. It's going to. It's like any other tool. They said the drum machine was going to put drummers out, put drummers out of business. It didn't. It just. If you took the drum machine and learned how to use it, it just became a tool. Like Auto Tune or anything else becomes a tool at a certain point. AI to me is three phases of AI. I say, there's people that are trying to stop it. They're on the tracks trying to stop it. It's not going to work because the cat's out the bag now. So there's only two positions left. You can get on the train and ride it, or you can get on the train and try to drive it. And I'm a driver. So I'm thinking, let's figure out how we can use it to the best of our abilities to enhance the things that we do as songwriters and our songs. Maybe we can make our songs better. I don't know. So I. I'm not afraid of it because it's just technology. But nothing's going to replace humans in a club with a guitar and a voice that put, you know, that hair on your. Your arm standing up. Right. You know, and goosebumps. So AI can't do that.
- [21:46]
Terry Lewis
Yeah.
- [21:47]
Jimmy Jam
So everybody that's. That's trying to use it to. Yeah. Get on the field. Well, what is it doing is it's diminishing the field because it's flooding the field with the fans. And when the fans are on the field, the game is not important anymore. Somebody's gotta watch and make it important.
- [22:06]
Host/Announcer
Now. Y' all work with so many different people over the years. Have y' all ever turned down an artist, writing for an artist or producing because I ain't trusting with your music or. It just didn't align with y'?
- [22:16]
DJ Envy
All?
- [22:18]
Jimmy Jam
Yeah, we've turned down things, for sure, but not for that reason. We didn't feel like we were the best people for the job. So, yeah, we are fans of the people that we work with. We're fans of music, and we love music, retro and forward, whatever, and we want to protect it. So we protect ourselves by not doing something that we're not inspired by.
- [22:39]
Terry Lewis
I'd like to say we don't really. If we say no, it's always with a but. It's like, no, but you know who would be really good for this is this person. So we redirect. A lot of times we will redirect and get the right people involved. Or a lot of times we will advocate. We were talking about it the other day. So Pink is up for the Rock and Roll hall of Fame this year.
- [23:03]
Host/Announcer
My girl.
- [23:03]
Terry Lewis
Yes. And Pink came to Minneapolis to do work on some stuff with us. And we said, will you play us what you got so far? And she started playing all this stuff. And it was the stuff Delinda Perry did with her and Dallas Austin did with her. And we were like, what do you need us for? You got a record, right? And she said, well, LA thinks that, you know, because my. It's so different from what I did before because her first album was a very RB album. And I said, oh, okay. So we called la, and I said, la. I said, take your record company hat off for a minute and just put your musician hat on. I just want to give you two examples. And I said, the first one was a girl in Canada. She was popular in Canada, had a few hits and stuff. She came to America, she made a record called Jagged Little Pill. And he said, alanis Morissette? And I said, yeah. And I said, then there was a guy. I said, he had a, you know, double platinum album, big record. I said, the next album, he came out, changed his whole style, had bikinis and leg warmers and a trench coat. He said, prince? And I said, yeah. And he said, so you're telling me you think Pink is Prince and Alanis Morissette? And I said, yes. I said, now put your record company back, your hat back on. You have your first single. He said, what's that? I said, get the party started. Because that song will not lose her audience that she already has, but it's gonna start gaining her that audience where she's trying to go. And I remember when the album came out, like, three months later, everybody started calling us. Because this was before Internet or anything. You couldn't just text people. They would call us and they go, what'd y' all do on Pink's album? We said, we didn't do nothing on the album. Well, she thanks you. In the liner note, she says, thank you, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. And I said, oh, we made a phone call. So that's it. So we've done a lot of that. So that wasn't a no, but it was, you know, you got what you need right here. You don't really need anything thing from us.
- [24:41]
DJ Envy
When the last night. Because, you know, you keep saying that, you know that music that makes your hair stand up on your arm. When the last time you felt like that about some music?
- [24:49]
Terry Lewis
Yesterday when we heard Open My Heart by Yolanda Adams.
- [24:53]
Jimmy Jam
Wow.
- [24:54]
Terry Lewis
Wow. That's when. When. Because people always ask us, you know our favorite song, and we always say, you know, it's the song. I always say. I would put it like, this favorite is tough, because there can be a whole lot of reasons something is your favorite. But I think that I always say. My analogy is always, if there's a time capsule, the time capsule says Jam and Lewis on it. And 100 years from now, the aliens come down or whatever, they open the time capsule. And the song that would play for me would be optimistic by the Sounds of Blackness. Ooh.
- [25:20]
DJ Envy
Listen to it at least three times a week.
- [25:21]
Terry Lewis
Okay? So that song, to me, because it says. Because that song would tell you everything. If you didn't know us, never heard of us, that song would tell you everything you'd want to know about us. And so our rhythm, our melodic sense, our, you know, our. Our sense of lyric, all of those types of things. And then Terry always says in one, not even number two, but one A would be Open My Heart, Yolanda Adams, for that same reason that you can't listen to that song. And Terry would always talk about how people would pull over. And Sylvia Rohn, you know, chairman of. Of. Of at the time, Electra Records, when she said, do you guys want to do with Yolanda Adams? We were trying to sign Yolanda Adams at that point, and we said, yeah, we'll do Yolanda. And we did the song. And I remember she said, oh, man, that song gave me chills. It made me cry, you know, whatever. And we were like, cool. And I remember they put out a couple singles, but it wasn't that single. And we were like, yo, Sylvia, what happened to Open My Heart? And she said, you know, as a record company person would say, well, you know, it's summertime. You know, we gotta be uptempo, and we gotta be whatever. And we like, yeah, but it made you cry. And I remember she gave it to. I think it was Elroy at GCI in Chicago.
- [26:27]
DJ Envy
Salute to Elroy.
- [26:27]
Terry Lewis
Elroy Smith. Okay? She gave it to him. He played it the next morning. I guess whoever the morning jock was was like, who's this record? Everybody's calling me about? This record you played last night. What is that record? I don't even have that record. And it was Yolanda. And at that point, they knew, okay, yeah, this thing's gonna go. Forget that it's a ballad in the middle of summer. It didn't matter. And of course, it changed everybody's lives in a positive way. So I think those are the kind of records that we want to be involved with. And I love that, you know, the records that sometimes that records that we've helped create. But we always say, God creates the records. We're just the delivery system.
- [27:03]
DJ Envy
Absolutely. Another thing I wanted to ask y', all, right? Why does. Why does pop music often get looked at as a white genre when it was black? A black producer like a Quincy Jones and a black artist like a Michael Jackson, and black producers like you two, and a black artist like Janet Jackson who changed the trajectory of pop music?
- [27:21]
Jimmy Jam
Well, Pop. I think at the intention of pop was only to refer to it as popular. And I don't think it was race or gender specific at that point. I think people have a need to own everything.
- [27:37]
DJ Envy
White people.
- [27:38]
Jimmy Jam
Yes. Okay.
- [27:42]
Terry Lewis
Others
- [27:44]
Jimmy Jam
have the need to claim everything. And I think that messed the game up. Like, I actually prefer how they do it in Europe. Like, there's one chart, and if you want it, you want it. And if you're not, you're not. So if the competition is fair at that point, let the games begin and let the music speak for itself. So I don't know, it's. It's a way to separate. What's the difference between gospel and Christian?
- [28:10]
DJ Envy
As. I have no idea.
- [28:12]
Jimmy Jam
One is white and one is black.
- [28:15]
Terry Lewis
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.
- [28:16]
DJ Envy
Damn, I never thought about that.
- [28:17]
Jimmy Jam
Yeah. So. So. So everybody needs. Has they feel the need to put things in boxes.
- [28:22]
Host/Announcer
Texas. Right.
- [28:23]
Jimmy Jam
But we talking about God and we talking about God. Yeah, same God, right? I think.
- [28:28]
Terry Lewis
Yeah.
- [28:30]
Host/Announcer
How do y' all feel about the Rock and Roll hall of Fame conversation? And. And Ozzy Osbourne got in trouble again for saying that, like, hip hop artists, R B artists shouldn't be.
- [28:38]
DJ Envy
Ozzy Osborne's dead man.
- [28:39]
Host/Announcer
I'm sorry. Not Ozzy Osborne. I didn't confuse it. The guy from kiss.
- [28:44]
Terry Lewis
Oh, Gene Simmons.
- [28:45]
Host/Announcer
Yes.
- [28:45]
Terry Lewis
I'm sorry. Yeah. No words.
- [28:47]
Host/Announcer
Wrong. White person, Gene Simmons.
- [28:49]
Terry Lewis
Yes.
- [28:49]
Host/Announcer
He got in trouble again because he was saying that black, basically, artists that are hip hop or R B should not be.
- [28:55]
Charlamagne Tha God
The title is Rock and Roll hall of Fame.
- [28:57]
Host/Announcer
In the Rock and Roll. Nominated in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame.
- [28:59]
Jimmy Jam
That's kind of pissy. But you know what? I'm. That's how he feels. And that he's trying to protect himself in that. Because black folks created rock and roll.
- [29:09]
Terry Lewis
Yeah, that's right.
- [29:10]
Jimmy Jam
So how can he be mad at the other people that are getting in? Because they created the genre that you specifically want to claim. So you can't be mad at other people for getting in because.
- [29:23]
Terry Lewis
Well, you can be.
- [29:24]
Jimmy Jam
Well, it just doesn't work.
- [29:27]
Terry Lewis
Yeah, yeah.
- [29:28]
Jimmy Jam
It doesn't work on any level.
- [29:29]
Terry Lewis
Yeah, well, I mean, if you think about the Rock and Roll hall of Fame, the first people that were inducted in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame right at the very beginning, you know, you had Chuck Berry and Fats Domino. And it was the black pioneers, the people. Lil Richard, like, the people that really invented what is known as rock and roll. And rock and roll was not at the origin. Was not a white dude with Long hair and a guitar. That was not what it was. It morphed into that. But I think we see now it changing to be more inclusive. And also rock and roll is more of an attitude than a genre of music anyway, you know, And I think hip hop, if anybody embodies, you know, aggressiveness, different, you knowness coming through adversity to make music, that's the hip hop community. So to me, that's as rock and roll as it gets.
- [30:21]
Host/Announcer
And he credits them as well when he talks about it. But it's just like the irony of like that credit and then the separation and then it sparks a whole conversation again about that barrier and that guideline.
- [30:31]
Jimmy Jam
Yeah, well, maybe they should just call it the hall of Fame.
- [30:33]
Terry Lewis
I agree.
- [30:34]
Host/Announcer
That's what Charlamagne was saying.
- [30:35]
DJ Envy
It should just be the Music hall of Fame. That's it.
- [30:37]
Jimmy Jam
Yeah. If you want to be, you know, specific in a way that is general, you know, it's about the music, isn't it? About the contributions, isn't it?
- [30:47]
Terry Lewis
Yeah, Well, I think, I think the importance of it is that I think the music, the conversations around music are always great. So if somebody has to say something that's, you know, slightly off, you know, just off, I guess, ignorant, okay, then I think it's great that we have the conversation about it because it keeps music important, it keeps it relevant. And I'm glad we have the conversations. And I think once again, for younger people, we're coming at it from. I mean, we're coming from old guys. But I think that everybody needs to know that conversation and how those kinds of things happen, because otherwise you think that it's just a status quo, that things were always like that. I mean, a whole different thing. But I know my kids, for instance, when my kids were growing up, Obama was the president, they thought, oh, that's normal. That's what it is. And it's like, no, no, no, no, it's not normal. And now they see what the new normal is and they're like, whoa, wait a minute now. You know, because they historically don't. Don't have that. So I think you have to have the context. And I think that. But I love that the Rock and Roll hall of Fame and the other thing about that is the people that vote on that, that room is changing a lot. I mean, because it goes to the fan vote also, but that room in that room is changing. And so I think that there's a need to, you know, as we people like Luther Vandross on the ballot this year, Which I think, you know, think about Luther Vandross. He was a major contributor to David Bowie. Yeah. You know, so I just think that the connections in those types of things are really good, but I think the conversations are really healthy to have. You know, the debates are healthy.
- [32:18]
Charlamagne Tha God
Now, these brothers gotta go.
- [32:19]
DJ Envy
I know they gotta go. I got one last question. When it's all said and done, do you want Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis to be remembered for the hits or for the blueprint y' all created for producers to control their own destinies?
- [32:31]
Terry Lewis
Ooh, that's a good question. Well, I always say. The story. I always say about that, is it Michael Jackson asks, He said, how do you want to be remembered? And I just said, I want to be remembered as a nice guy. And he said, no, no, no, no, no. Is it because of all your hit records or all your. That you sold so many? I said, no, no, no. That's all statistical stuff. So like a chart position that's statistical. I said, I want to be remembered as a nice guy. And about a year later, I'd sampled some of Michael Jackson's stuff, and they said, oh, you'll never clear that. You'll never clear that. And I called Michael, he called back, and he says, I know you want to ask me a question, but can I just tell you? Whenever they ask me what it's like working with you guys, I just go, jimmy Jam is the nicest guy. And I said, thanks, Michael. And he goes, yeah, yeah, I'll clear it. Have John Bryant could call and I'll clear the sample and whatever. We ended up not even using the sample. But my point was, is that was the impression. And I said to Michael, I said, the good news, Michael. I said, when people ask me what it was like to work with you, I tell them the exact same thing. He's a nice guy. So I always want. I would always go for that, over the talent. But the way you articulated as sort of a blueprint or sort of a, you know, an inspiration or all of that, that's what we would like to be. I think, you know that. I mean, the hits are great in the moment, but once again, as I talked about earlier with Prince, you know, Prince had some big hits, but his effect on people, and the fact that we're even sitting here right now, we want to be that for people. We want to be the reason that they're sitting here and being able to do what it is that they do and for. To have them say, I mean, I'll tell you, we're talking about, you know, white people. Charlie Puth. Charlie Puth came on a thing we did the other day, and he was like, y' all the reason I even make chords the way I make my chords and that kind of stuff, you know, so that's the kind of impact. Yeah, Charlie's good, dude. Right. But you want. That's the kind of impact you want to have. And I think that means a lot to us to. To have that.
- [34:21]
Jimmy Jam
And I would just add a little bit of sauce on that. Sandwich is really nice. Jimmy Jam, but put a little sauce on it. I think from the age that we came into this, you know, there were people before, certainly Gamble and Huff, who was our blueprint.
- [34:38]
Terry Lewis
Yes.
- [34:39]
Jimmy Jam
You know, Quincy Jones, who was like a mentor. I. I love the way our career arc and business acumen helped to shape the business side of it for producers that came after us now, although that. That also. That's all changed now because nobody gets paid now.
- [35:00]
Terry Lewis
Yeah.
- [35:01]
Jimmy Jam
Because of streaming. But we actually made the producers have some power at a certain point.
- [35:07]
Terry Lewis
Standpoint.
- [35:08]
Jimmy Jam
Because before, they were just tools, and we became personalities and tools, and that helped us just like you guys are, y'.
- [35:18]
Terry Lewis
All.
- [35:18]
Jimmy Jam
Y' all are personalities. So that gives the voice even a louder bullhorn. So we were able to advocate for all the people that we love. You know, I love musicians. I love artists. I love producers, anybody who's creating music. And Kenny Gamble said it best. Cause as my mentor, we would always talk to him about things. He said, you know, our music is supposed to be pure, wholesome. It's supposed to feed and nourish us. So we have to be careful with what we do in terms of what we create for our communities. And I still believe that. But there's room for all of it, you know, but for every piece of fried chicken you eat, you better eat a salad.
- [35:57]
Terry Lewis
Yep.
- [35:59]
Charlamagne Tha God
Ladies and gentlemen, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Thank you, brothers, for joining. Anytime you guys are in town, pull up on us, please.
- [36:07]
Terry Lewis
Thank you.
- [36:08]
DJ Envy
And listen. Tickets can be purchased for their residency@voltaire.voltaire.com Voltaire.
- [36:13]
Jimmy Jam
Voltaire.
- [36:13]
Charlamagne Tha God
Lv.com April 17th through the 26th. And thank you, brothers.
- [36:18]
Terry Lewis
Again.
- [36:18]
Jimmy Jam
Thank you.
- [36:18]
Terry Lewis
Thank you, brothers.
- [36:19]
Charlamagne Tha God
It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.
- [36:21]
Jimmy Jam
Hold up.
- [36:22]
Terry Lewis
Every day I wake up, Wake your ass up.
- [36:24]
DJ Envy
The Breakfast Club. Y' all finished or y' all done?
- [36:29]
iHeart Podcast Awards Announcer
Next Monday, our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards are happening live at south by Southwest.
- [36:34]
Jimmy Jam
This is the biggest night in podcasting.
- [36:36]
iHeart Podcast Awards Announcer
We'll hon the very best in podcasting from the past year. And celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry.
- [36:42]
Amanda Knox / Jo (Spirit Daughter Podcast Host)
And the winner is.
- [36:44]
iHeart Podcast Awards Announcer
Creativity, Knowledge and Passion will all be on full display.
- [36:48]
Amanda Knox / Jo (Spirit Daughter Podcast Host)
Thank you so much iheartradio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome.
- [36:52]
iHeart Podcast Awards Announcer
Watch Live next Monday at 8pm Eastern, 5pm Pacific free@veeps.com or the Veeps app.
- [36:59]
Aygo Wodom
Ego Woda is your host for the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards live at south by Southwest.
- [37:05]
Terry Lewis
Hello?
- [37:06]
Lily Herman
Is anybody there?
- [37:06]
Aygo Wodom
Raised by a single mom, Ego, may they have a few father related issues.
- [37:10]
Terry Lewis
Are we supposed to talk about your dad?
- [37:12]
Aygo Wodom
Her podcast, thanks dad is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors including fellow SNL alums, comedians, musicians and more about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers.
- [37:23]
Host/Announcer
I think and hope that's a good thing.
- [37:24]
Aygo Wodom
Get to know Aygo, follow Thanks dad with Ago Wodom and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.
- [37:30]
Jay Shetty
Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. I'm joined by Luke Combs, award winning country music artist and one of the most authentic voices in music today.
- [37:40]
Terry Lewis
The guy that says he's always going to be there and that will do anything to be there is the only guy that's not there. No matter what. I'm going to prioritize my wife and my children. I dread the conversation with my son.
- [37:53]
Jay Shetty
Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:00]
Lily Herman
Ready for a different take on Formula 1? Look no further than no Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the underexplored pockets of F1, including the astrology of the current grid, the story of the sport's most consequential driver strike, and plenty of other mishaps, scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no Grip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:30]
Amanda Knox / Jo (Spirit Daughter Podcast Host)
Hi, it's Jo, interesting host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast where we talk about astrology and natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible. Dance with the change. Dance with the breakdowns. The embodiment of Pisces Intuition with Capricorn power moves just so. I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcast.
- [39:05]
Host/Announcer
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.