INTERVIEW: Joey Bada$$ Talks New Project, Coming For The West Coast, The 'Big 3', Fatherhood, Therapy + More

Summary

The Breakfast Club — Joey Bada$$ Interview: New Project, West Coast Tension, The 'Big 3', Fatherhood, Therapy & More

Date: August 19, 2025
Hosts: Charlamagne Tha God, Nyla Simone (DJ Envy out), Jess Hilarious
Guest: Joey Bada$$

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Overview

In this episode, The Breakfast Club welcomes multi-hyphenate rapper and actor Joey Bada$$ to discuss his forthcoming album Lonely at the Top (due August 29th), his creative journey, recent tensions with West Coast rappers, the state of rap’s “Big 3,” fatherhood, therapy, financial literacy, and his evolution as an artist both in music and on screen. The conversation is candid, reflective, and often humorous, offering not only insight into Joey’s artistry and philosophy but also his dedication to growth, well-being, and community.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fatherhood & Maturity

• Joey is a father of two and shares how fatherhood refines and matures him.

  “I won’t say it changed me as a man. I say it refined me ... it’s maturity. I ain't got the bandwidth, bruh ... for the bullshit no more.”
  (03:11, Joey Bada$$)

• He contrasts his preparedness and mindset with his first child versus now, acknowledging greater readiness and the value of experience.
• Quote:

  “It’s like going navigating the street and knowing where the bumps is at.”
  (04:45, Joey Bada$$)

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2. New Album & Label Frustrations

• Lonely at the Top was delayed by the label, frustrating Joey because he values transparency and consistency with fans.

  “I was put in a position where I communicated a date, and then I had to change that ... because I worked so hard on that relationship with my fans.”
  (05:24, Joey Bada$$)

• Why the delay? The label claimed they wanted to “put more into it,” but their process was poor.

  “The execution of it wasn’t the best … I could say that their intentions were good, but the execution wasn’t.”
  (07:04, Joey Bada$$)

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3. Chasing “The Record” & Artistic Integrity

• There’s a recurring narrative among fans and industry types that Joey “just needs a record” (i.e., a huge single). He neither actively chases nor ignores this, preferring organic success.

  “I definitely have an awareness of that ... but I won’t say I chase it.”
  (08:25, Joey Bada$$)

• Joey resists dropping too many singles, preferring listeners hear full projects unspoiled by previews.

  “I really want you to experience the body of work like I intended it to, and I want it to be fully new when people hear it.”
  (09:15, Joey Bada$$)

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4. New York vs. West Coast, Rap as Sport

• Joey addresses the tension following his track “Ruler’s Back,” clarifying it wasn’t an attack on the West Coast:

  “My intention was never to come for the West Coast. ... it was really in the spirit of, like, y’all having your moment, but New York got something to say too.”
  (10:34, Joey Bada$$)

• The spirited back-and-forth with West Coast rappers was, in Joey’s words, “never about no bodily harm … it was friendly competition.”
  (48:07, Joey Bada$$)

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5. The “Big 3” Conversation

• Discussion of the changing “Big 3” in rap and whether Joey belongs in that class.

  “I kind of do, but I’m so much younger than anybody else. Everybody else in that class got me by like 8 to 10 years.”
  (13:40, Joey Bada$$)

• Joey’s approach is about finding his lane, staying authentic, and appreciating a longer career runway because of his youth.

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6. Commercial Success vs. Artistic Fulfillment

• Joey reflects on balancing making “commercial” music and authentic expression.

  “I don’t put out a lot of commercially poised music. ...Even though I had the success [with 'Devastated'], I’m like, ‘Is this feeling worth it? Do I want to be attached to a song I don’t love?’” (15:01, Joey Bada$$; 15:12, Joey Bada$$)

• He’s seeking a “sweet spot” — making art true to self that can also have popular appeal.

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7. Mental Health, Pressure & Therapy

• Joey emphasizes the importance of self-reflection, therapy, and accountability:

  “When I’m wrong, I learn ... self-reflection, self-correction ... that makes me better, makes me stronger.”
  (17:22, Joey Bada$$)

• Music is therapeutic, but therapy provides a deeper understanding:

  “The music gives me the outlet to talk about what is happening, but therapy gives me the outlet to understand why things are happening.”
  (32:57, Joey Bada$$)

• His first experience with therapy was public, through Noisey’s “therapist” series, and led him to connect with Dr. Siri, his therapist for five years:

  “I end up like crying in interview and ... after that, I actually connected with him, and that’s who became my therapist.”
  (38:32–39:02, Joey Bada$$)

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8. Acting: Career Shift & Creative Influence

• Success in acting rekindled music as “art” rather than “job.”

  “Success in acting has supported music being art again for me ... it being like, just do what you want, because you good.”
  (19:25, Joey Bada$$)

• He describes approaching his roles with a "method acting" mindset:

  “I’m not interested in acting. I’m interested in living ... I become the role and live it out on film, if you will.”
  (22:20, Joey Bada$$)

• Stories from Raising Kanan and juggling music/touring schedules. He nearly left the show, but reversed the decision after advice from his mother:

  “My mom dropped some wisdom ... 'One in the hand is better than two in the bush.'”
  (25:00–26:00, Joey Bada$$)

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9. Staying True in a Changing Musical Landscape

• Joey resists industry pressure to chase trends, standing firm in his New York sound and unique path.

  “I don’t feel the pressure to do anything that anybody else is doing ... if it don't feel authentic, I feel off, I feel out of balance.”
  (28:41, Joey Bada$$)

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10. Mentorship, Community, & Giving Back

• Joey discusses starting the Impact Mentorship program and being the youngest-ever artist-in-residence at NYU.

  “I'm very big on sharing ... going back to the navigation analogy, ‘I’ve been down this road, there’s a pothole right there, make sure you go left.’”
  (30:31, Joey Bada$$)

• He stresses the importance of passing on wisdom, particularly to men of color.

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11. Financial Literacy & Investing

• Strong urge for Black youth and peers to gain financial savvy, particularly with stocks and crypto.

  “I’m screaming off the mountaintop right now to all my people: get into these stocks ... before they find a way to lock us out. There’s so much money in it and it’s so accessible nowadays.”
  (57:16–59:11, Joey Bada$$)

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12. Lonely at the Top: Title & Meaning

• Homage to Gang Starr’s “Moment of Truth.” The loneliness at the top is about the isolation and survivor’s guilt that can accompany success.

  “When you get to the pinnacle ... you’ll find that it is lonely. ... Sometimes the isolation is necessary for you to get to a certain place, ’cause certain people or energy will hold you back.”
  (60:19, Joey Bada$$)

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13. Final Reflections: Balance & Substance

• Modern music industry undervalues substance; Joey urges young artists not to sacrifice substance or mental well-being for success.

  “We live in a very godless world, godless society. It’s very vain, so I think the music is a reflection of that.”
  (54:28, Joey Bada$$)

• He emphasizes knowledge, self-education, authentic artistry, and the importance of embracing both the light and dark aspects of life:

  “How would you even know what light is if you ain't know what dark was?”
  (62:04, Joey Bada$$)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I don't put out a lot of commercially poised music...the ones I did, like 'Devastated,' that's probably one of my least favorite songs.”
  (15:08, Joey Bada$$)
• “My intention was never to come for the West Coast. ... It was really in the spirit of: y'all have your moment, but New York got something to say too.”
  (10:34, Joey Bada$$)
• “Music gives me the outlet to talk about what is happening, but therapy gives me the outlet to understand why things are happening.”
  (32:57, Joey Bada$$)
• “I'm not interested in acting, I'm interested in living.”
  (22:20, Joey Bada$$)
• “We live in a very godless world, godless society. It’s very vain ... I think the music is a reflection of that.”
  (54:28, Joey Bada$$)
• “How would you even know what light is if you ain't know what dark was?”
  (62:04, Joey Bada$$)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:28 — Joey joins, discussion begins
• 03:10–04:53 — Fatherhood and maturity
• 05:12–07:55 — Label frustrations & album delay
• 08:41–09:53 — Anticipation, cliffhangers, and album sequencing
• 10:34–12:04 — West Coast “battle” and rap as sport
• 13:06–14:14 — The “Big 3” and Joey’s class in rap
• 15:01–16:56 — Artistic integrity vs. commercial music
• 17:22–18:54 — Coping with pressure, protecting peace
• 19:18–21:53 — Acting’s influence & creative inspiration
• 22:20–23:57 — Method acting approach
• 25:00–26:35 — Almost leaving Raising Kanan; Mom’s wisdom
• 28:41–30:23 — Authenticity amid trends & Drill music
• 30:23–31:47 — Impact Mentorship & NYU residency
• 32:57–34:06 — Music, therapy, and mental health
• 38:32–39:02 — How Noisey's therapy video led to real therapy
• 39:14–41:10 — Privacy, family protection, and fame
• 54:28–55:28 — On substance in modern hip hop
• 57:16–60:19 — Financial literacy, stocks, crypto
• 60:19–61:57 — Album title meaning: “Lonely at the Top”
• 62:03–62:38 — Balancing the light and dark

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Takeaways for New Listeners

• Joey Bada$$ is thoughtful, values artistic and personal integrity, and is unafraid to stand alone if that means being true to himself.
• He’s deeply invested in mental health, both his own and for the Black community, and is vocal about the importance of therapy.
• Upcoming album Lonely at the Top is shaped by both adversity and growth, reflecting Joey’s desire to balance light and shadow in life and art.
• He believes in passing knowledge forward — whether it’s wisdom from the streets, the industry, or the stock market.
• The episode is enriched by Joey’s openness, comedic rapport with the hosts, and his continuous push for substance over spectacle.

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Album due August 29th — “Lonely at the Top.”
Closing words:

“King, like wise. Absolutely. Thank y’all for having me today.” (62:46, Joey Bada$$)

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Transcript

[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

Every day I wake up.

[Joey Badass]

Wake your ass up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The Breakfast Club. Yep, it's the world's most dangerous morning show. Charlemagne the God just hilarious. Envy is out today, but Nyla Simone is here, and we got a brother who's got a project coming out on August 29th called Lonely at the Top. The good brother Joey Badass is here, man. What's up?

[Joey Badass]

What it do, man? How you doing? Good morning.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I am blessed, black, and highly favored. How you feeling?

[Joey Badass]

Good, man, good.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

First of all, how is fatherhood?

[Joey Badass]

Fatherhood is amazing.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Amazing. Congratulations.

[Joey Badass]

Father of two now. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. Loving it. Basking in it, you know what I mean? At the stage. Ain't getting much sleep right now, but, you know, it's going great.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How old is your. A couple, what, two months now? Something right?

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, something like that, yeah. Okay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How's it changed you as a man?

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, I mean, I won't say it changed me as a man. I say it's refined me. You know what I mean? Just, you know, maturity. It's like, I ain't got the bandwidth, bruh. You know what I'm saying? For, like, the bullshit no more. It's like when I had my first child, the biggest revelation I had was like, oh, shit, I only got one kid. You know what I mean? It's like I've been taking care of so many people and, like, putting so much energy into that. And you realize that you have, like, one child, like, one person that you actually solely responsible for. And, you know, having my son now is, like, you know, it's no different. It's just. It kind of gives you that extra boost of like, yo, listen, let's get to it. Let's get it done. Like, when we leaving the house, we on a mission, and the mission is to complete it and, you know, get back home.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right.

[Joey Badass]

Exactly. Yeah. For real.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And you got the best of both worlds now. Cause you got your girl and your boy now.

[Joey Badass]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Nyla Simone]

As you said, you've matured. Is there, like, a major difference from your first time having a child when you were younger versus now?

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, I mean, I'll say the biggest difference was, you know, I don't. I'm at a different readiness and preparedness level now. You know what I'm saying? So it was like, you know, with this one, and then also kind of having the experience and the data now, right? It's like, like, playing words, data, you know what I'm saying? Like, and having that to apply. So everything that I've learned from my first experience, being able to take that, and it kind of catapult me into this one like, we're just like, ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like. Like, you know, I mean, everything is pretty much. It's like going navigating the street and knowing where the bumps is at. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's. It's kind of like that. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, I was listening to Dark Order. They sent me Lonely at the Top last night. They just sent me snippets. But I listened to the whole Dark Order this morning.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, that was purposely done because I know you guys have a system and y' all like to listen to the music before, but I also like to reserve some of it because I want you guys to, you know, actually be in tune, you know what I mean, when it drops. So.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, but you say on Dark Order, you say independent mindset. You ain't fucking with them majors. So when I think about everything that's going on with your label right now and them delaying the album, does it make you wish you was Indy?

[Joey Badass]

Well, what I'll say is, you know, we had our complications, and, you know, I think what had. What had disappointed me or angered me the most is that I'm very passionate about my relationship with my fans. And, you know, when I say things, I want them to know that my word is bond. So I hate that I was put in a position where I communicated a date, and then I had to change that, you know what I'm saying? Because I worked so hard on that relationship with my fans. Because, you know, historically, I haven't always been the. The best at that. And that's, you know, me taking accountability and me wanting to improve and be better. You know what I'm saying? But, you know, so, yeah, we had our little whatever, but we on common ground now, you know what I'm saying? And, you know, I feel fully supported and everything. And August 29th, do you really feel fully supported?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because I was gonna ask, right? What's the point?

[Joey Badass]

Do you really, brother? Do you really, you know, we gotta drill into this thing?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you.

[Joey Badass]

You see, I was trying to just be political, right?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Just.

[Joey Badass]

Just get past it. He said, but do you really. Let's dig into it. Like, damn, I thought the juices take the edge off.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What's the point of a label even delaying an album? Cause it's not like they gonna work the records at radio the way that they should. It's not like they gonna put the building behind you with the promo and marketing the way that they should. So what's the point of delaying the album?

[Joey Badass]

Charlamagne. You got some. Some intense Feelings today.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, born some juice, y'.

[DJ Envy]

All.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Bo, get started.

[Joey Badass]

Did they give you a reason? You ain't like that ginger shit, but.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Did they give you. Did they say, hey?

[Joey Badass]

So the reason was that they felt as if, like, you know, they wanted to put more into it. And, you know, like, I had my. My, My complications with that, if you will. But at the end of the day, you know, I'm like, okay, you know, that's not a bad thing. I just think that the way that it happened, you know what I'm saying? Like, telling me the week before my fans think that the project is coming is just, like, not productive, you know what I'm saying? It's counterproductive to the whole situation. So, like, you know, I could say that they intentions were good, but the. The execution of it wasn't the best, you know what I'm saying? But like I said, like, you know, all is well now, and, you know, everybody's on common ground, and we got a date. So August 29, at the end of the day, I just want to put this music out, and that's saying what I'm.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm looking forward to because I was having a. A debate about you in a group chat. You know, the hip hop group chat.

[Joey Badass]

Oh, yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And so I was saying, like. Like, Joey, like, I listen to the project.

[Joey Badass]

I've been in the group chats a lot this year. Huh.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But for good things. Great reasons.

[Joey Badass]

It's like you, like the fifth person I heard say y' all talk about you in the group chat.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And everybody had one. One common thing in regards to Joey Badass's music. They always say he just need a record. Is that something you chase?

[Joey Badass]

I won't say that I chase that, but I won't say that it's something that I'm not cognizant of.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Gotcha.

[Joey Badass]

You know what I mean? I definitely have an awareness of that. And. Yeah. Lonely at the top, August 29th. Let's see what happens. You know what I'm saying? Cause, yeah.

[Nyla Simone]

Is that implying that it's on this tape?

[Joey Badass]

We'll see. You know what I mean? We'll see. Like, no, I. I think that there's a record on there, you know, maybe two records on there, Ready to Love. I think that's a great record.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[Joey Badass]

You know what I mean? I think that's definitely poised for that type of position. But there's another one I'm specifically thinking about.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What is the Super Flea one? The one that got, like, the club vibe to it, maybe.

[Joey Badass]

Listen, I'M trying to reserve, you know what I mean? I want people to. Yeah. Cause, you know, and it's funny, and I'm glad we having this conversation, because I feel like in 2025, like, I'm at a point with my artistry where it's like, I really don't want to give samples out. I really don't want to drop no songs ahead of it. I really want you to experience the body of work like I intended it to, and I wanted it to be fully new when people hear it, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't want the. I don't want to give away too much. I have too much expectations. Like, I really enjoy creating bodies of work and sharing that. You know what I'm saying? So. But yeah, you know, you still gotta promote your project. It's like, how do you promote the project without, like, putting singles out and, you know, shit like that?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But this is one cliffhanging ass nigga, man. Like, he will leave you on a cliff with his music and in acting, because.

[Joey Badass]

Who, me?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, you.

[Joey Badass]

I'm a cliffhanger.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, you are. Yo, you wanna leave somebody on a cliff and not know what's going on? Cause even in the films, even with the shows, like, we ain't know if Unique died or not.

[Joey Badass]

You gotta create some suspense, you know what I mean? Some suspense, some anticipation. You know, I mean, I feel like you should feel something.

[Nyla Simone]

Hella anticipation this year, especially starting off the year, what was it, the first week of January, you came first day, first day, first day, January 1st. Attacking the. Or, you know, claiming your title in New York, but then also, you know, coming from the west coast, what. What struck that?

[Joey Badass]

So, first of all, it's like, you know, my intention was never to come for the west coast, you know what I'm saying? I think that, like, with Rulers back, my energy was more connected to, like, it was really in the spirit of, like, yo, y' all having y' all moment, but New York got something to say too type of thing. You know what I'm saying? And it's like, yeah, you know, people had their complications with that. Like, oh, y' all had y' all moment. We ain't say nothing. This, that the third. But I'm like, yo, it's 2025, and it's a playful. It was. It was. It was a playful nature for me, you know what I'm saying? Like, this rap shit is a sport, and I have so many allies on the West. Like, from my perspective, if you really seen it it was like, I didn't mean no disrespect. That wasn't my intention or whatever. But I'm like, yo, we rapping. You know what I'm saying? So when people felt like I was attacking, I had to respect it. Cause I think that my perspective would have kind of been the same if the shoe was on the other foot. Like, yo, you know what I'm saying? And I think that a lot of people took the opportunity and a lot of good things came from that, for sure.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. Like rap. I mean, honestly, that's how the conversation started in the group chat. Cause I said. I said Joey Badass is the nicest, like, new dude from New York, right? You know, even though you've been out for a while, but it's like, he's that guy right now. Like, that's what I was asking the group chat. And so everybody sent the emojis back, like, hmm, let me think about that one. But if not you, who?

[Joey Badass]

That's how I feel.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And now if somebody was to respond back from, like, the west coast, right? If one of them rappers was to, like, all right, go back at you, were you prepared for it to be?

[Joey Badass]

Oh, people did respond. Yeah, A bunch of people respond. It was like 50 niggas responding.

[Nyla Simone]

We definitely gonna get into that. But I wanna get into this line on Ruler's back where you were like, women lie, but Joey don't lie, might delete later. I know damn sure that Joey won't fuck.

[Joey Badass]

That's sorry, not sorry.

[Nyla Simone]

Oh, sorry.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, nobody said it.

[Nyla Simone]

But with that line, you know, the play on words, we might delete later. And, you know, that being Cole's project. How do you feel about the Big Three now?

[Joey Badass]

Um, I mean, what do you mean?

[Nyla Simone]

Do you still feel like there is a Big Three? Did the Big Three change? Do you feel like it's like, not a thing anymore?

[Joey Badass]

No, I want to say that it changed. I mean, I say that, you know, over the last 10 years, when we talk about rap, like, yeah, I think that those figures are the prominent figures, you know, I'm saying in the space. I think, you know, a lot of interesting things has happened in the last year. But, yeah, to say the least. You know what I'm saying? But, yeah, I mean, I don't feel no particular way about it. You know what I'm saying? It's. Yeah, I love it. I love it all.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

As a New York artist, you feel away and the reason you feel.

[Joey Badass]

Nah, nah, I don't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Cause when you talking about Big Three and no MC from New York is mentioned.

[Joey Badass]

Oh, I mean, bro. Listen, I think the big three, though, was more of like a. How do I say it? Like, I think it's more of a. Like, it's like a class. I feel like that, like, when we talk about the big three, we're talking about that class, and I think that there's a new era that's like, you know, kind of right behind that where we might be talking about a different three individuals in like the next five years.

[Nyla Simone]

But you don't consider yourself in that class.

[Joey Badass]

I mean, see, the thing is, I kind of do, but I'm so much younger than anybody else. Everybody else in that class got me by like 8 to 10 years.

[Nyla Simone]

That was gonna be my question for you because I feel like the game that you play versus the game that they play is different. Like, I think you brought it to my attention that Big Daddy Kane and Jay Z are the same age. And then it's like, wait, they are?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, close to it.

[Nyla Simone]

They're the same age, but they're in different classes. So I feel like it's the same thing for you where it's like you're in the same class as them, but you. Your game is just a little different.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Shane is 56. J55.

[Joey Badass]

Oh, wow. Wow. Shit. The more, you know. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I feel. I feel similar, and I think that me being younger has kind of allowed for different things for me, you know what I'm saying? Like, I think everybody path is different and there's not much that I would really change about my path. I'm just getting better, you know what I'm saying, As I go on and. Yeah, you know, I think that me being younger than those pairs gives me more years, you know what I'm saying? It gives me still like a longer Runway to do what I want to do. So.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So in terms of your music career, what do you think has kept you from, like, getting to that next level? Just music? Well, what you mean just like to be in that, to be mentioned with that, with those guys or maybe have the commercial success that they've had?

[Joey Badass]

Well, I think it's me. I think it's the music that I put out, you know what I'm saying? I don't put out a lot of commercially poised music, you know what I'm saying?

[Nyla Simone]

Do you think it's that or do you think it's that you went the independent route?

[Joey Badass]

I think it's a combination of both, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't think that I've put out much commercial sounding music, you know what I mean? And it's like the ones that I did, like, you know, I put out devastated back in 2016, and that had a big moment. And that's like, probably one of my least favorite songs in my catalog. So it's like, I remember how that made me feel, and it's like, even though I had the success, I'm like, is this feeling worth it? Like, do I want to, like, really be attached to a song that I don't love? You know what I mean? So, like, it kind of became more about artistic integrity for me. It's like I just kind of value that a little bit more. But what I will say is I am trying to find the, The. The. The sweet spot, you know, I mean, I am looking for that sweet spot. It's like, how can I stay true to me, but still, like, you know, amplify it, Amplify the sound. So.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And nobody ever talks about that, making a record that works, but it don't feel right to you, but you got to go out there and live with it.

[Joey Badass]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. You know what I'm saying? So that's what that taught me. And it's like after that, it was like I was very skeptical about making those type of sounds again. Like, you know, even though for me, like, I really do enjoy being experimental and versatile and I enjoy when I play a song for somebody and they like, yo, that's you. I enjoy that feeling. But sometimes it also kind of like takes away from, like, the vision a little bit, right? Because, like, I don't have a single other song, like, devastated in my catalog. And it's like when I'm. When I'm going certain places, that's the representative thing of me. But it's like when you dive into my discography, it's like my shit sounds nothing like that. You know what I mean? So I think just kind of being aware with that and then also just focusing on my bodies of work as well, you know?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And I think it's about what you want from an artist. Like, when I listen to the project, like underwater, 3, 3ft, 3ft away speeding through the rain like, that's what I'm on. I'm like, oh, okay, that's what I'm rewinding.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Those are the records I enjoy hitting.

[Joey Badass]

Those are my favorites right there too.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, like the record Underwater. I totally understand what you meant, you know, when you say you Feel like you underwater. But what do you do in those moments when you feel like you're underwater? When that fame and the pressure and the expectations feel like you drowning?

[Joey Badass]

Well, turn to God, you know what I'm saying? Talk to God. Connect with God, connect with source and do a lot of self reflection, you know what I mean? I'm somebody who, like, I'm not obsessed with being right because I believe that when I'm wrong, I learn, you know? And, you know, when I'm right, I'm just like, okay, I'm right in the moment. But so, like, in those moments, I do a lot of self reflection, self correction, and, you know, I like to take accountability because I feel like that makes me better, it makes me stronger, and it gives me, you know, the wisdom that I need for the next day.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How do you protect your piece in the industry that thrives off chaos, though, Joy?

[Joey Badass]

Stay out the way, man. You know? Stay out the way. I think this year has been the most in the way I've ever been.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

For a good reason.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For a good reason, right? Like, a lot of good music came out of it. But, you know, just from a general standpoint, like, I think it's staying out the way, and I think lifestyle affects a lot of that, right? Like, you know, like, where I'm at now, my life at 30 years old, like, you know, I'm still fairly young, but my life reflects that of, like, a very mature man, you know what I'm saying? So it was like, you ain't gonna really find me in the club. You ain't gonna find me in, like, you know, these dark energy spaces, you know what I'm saying? Where, like, yo, I got my social battery so low. Like, yo, when I saw you out the other night when we was at the Metro boomer joint, like, after that, like, I just had to stay in the house for five days. Recovering. Yeah, recovering, you know what I'm saying?

[Nyla Simone]

You didn't even do nothing.

[Joey Badass]

You sat and it was too much because, you know what I mean? It's like I get mad daps out, you know, Mad people like, yo, boom, boom, boom. It's like the first time a lot of people were seeing me, you know what I mean? And it's just. It does a lot to me, and it's like I kind of got to recover from that after. Yeah, yeah, I probably gonna have to recover from this interview.

[Nyla Simone]

Dang, I'm.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I bought them niggas juice thing.

[Joey Badass]

Start pressing me about the labels.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How much does being a Successful actor. Change the trajectory of your career. Cause you ain't just Joey Badass the rapper when you go out, you know what I mean?

[Joey Badass]

I would say that, you know, it made music because I feel like at a point, music was becoming to me, like, feeling like a job. And I think that the success in acting has, like, supported music being art again for me. And just like, it being like, just do what you want to do because you good. You know what I'm saying? Like, you good. There's other things that you can do. Like, you know, you are. You're limitless. So do what you want to do and just make sure that every expression is as truest to heart, you know what I mean? As to spirit as you wish it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

To be, what do you like better, acting or music?

[Joey Badass]

I like both, you know what I mean? It's like, people ask me that question a lot, and I'm like, man, like, why do I gotta choose? You know what I'm saying? Like, I think that we talking about the field of arts. So to me, it's the same thing almost, you know what I mean? It's like, it's still me. I'm just showing up in another space, another medium, but as an artist still, you know what I mean? Expressing myself, performing this, that, the third. So it's like, yeah, I like both. Like, you know what I mean? I don't plan on choosing that one over the other. I think that, yeah, I'm highly capable and I'll continue to be capable of just doing both, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I got some movies that I'm working on, some shows that I'm working on. I can't spill no beans yet, but another cliffhanger, Damn. Now I gotta be aware of that now. Like, damn, my cliffhanger ass, nigga. It's on the cliff. What's next?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, you leave us on the cliff all the time.

[Joey Badass]

It's lonely at the top of the cliff. Yes.

[Nyla Simone]

Yo, nah, this is.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Has acting changed the way you write music?

[Joey Badass]

No, but I have been having a repeated thought. Like, I want to approach my music more from a space like that. More from, like a theatrical space. Like, how can I, you know, not with this album, but like, how. Moving forward, how can I involve what I've learned on the TV and film side and bring it into my music more? I have been like, you know, examining that whole field of thought and being like, yo, like, I definitely want to try my hand at, like, world building and playing a character on a body of work. If you will, and, like, playing into that and music videos and all of that type of shit. Cause I'm like, I could do that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You've seen that, though. I mean, Biggie did it with, like, Ready to Die or Raekwon did it with.

[Joey Badass]

Right, right, right. But, you know, doing it in 2025 at a whole new level. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Even Kendrick did it with Good Kid, Mad City, you know, like, those guys do it.

How. How connected are you to your roles? Like, for instance, playing Unique and raising Canaan? How. How many. Like, are there a lot of similarities between Joey Badass and Unique?

[Joey Badass]

I say when it comes to any character that I play, the first thing that I do is find the similarities. But I also find the differences too. Right. I think that I get very. I do get very connected to my characters because I think that my style of acting is kind of like method, a little bit like what they call method acting. And it's like, I have to. I have to believe it, and I have to, like. Like, I tell people all the time, like, I don't. I'm not interested in acting. I'm interested in, like, living. Like, you know, I'm saying, like, I become the role and, like, I live it out, like, on film, if you will. You know what I'm saying? Because to me, that's the only way that it's real. Like, there is when you see me, there is aspects of what's going on that I'm like, in that moment, I believe you know what I'm saying? It's real to me. This is what's going on. And then it's like, I think that one of my strengths as an actor, too, or my biggest strength, I would say, is my instincts. Because it's one thing to look at lines, and lines is easy for me because I come from rapping.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Joey Badass]

So it's nothing for me to memorize lines, but for me, what, like, really brings it to life to me is when I get in that environment and I'm like, okay, cool. Like, I'm kind of talking with the environment, if you will. You know what I'm saying? And it's just like, shit. I don't know. I might approach, you know, my scene partner a certain type of way, but, like, that wasn't scripted. Or I might say something to bridge the lines together, because that just feels real for me. Like, this is what I would do in the situation type of thing. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And do you. Have you ever gotten stuck in a role? Right. Like, you had to be like, oh, shit.

[Joey Badass]

Oh, nah, nah. I'd go home with it. And.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay, when you go home acting like Unique, you getting the police called on.

[Joey Badass]

You.

[Nyla Simone]

When Unique got killed off, did you know you were killed off? Or, like, did you know you were coming back?

[Joey Badass]

Did I know I was coming back? The cliffhanger ain't get killed, huh?

[Nyla Simone]

I know I got cliff.

[Joey Badass]

Oh, you mean it?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The cliffhanger.

[Joey Badass]

So I did know I was coming back.

[Nyla Simone]

Oh, you did know.

[Joey Badass]

I didn't know I was coming back. So, like, you know, the story goes that. So the reason why that even happened was because that year, I had put out an album when we was filming that season, and I had to tour it, and the tour was conflicting with the shooting schedule. And I was just like, yo, at that point, it was like season three. And I was just at a point where I was like, yo, I feel like. I mean, how long is the show gonna go on? I don't know, but I feel like I've done what I had to do. So I'm like, I'm cool with y'. All, 86 and me, if that's what y' all gotta do. Right? You know what I mean? So that's what happened. It was written into the script. Unique dies, and then the day that I went in to get my head casting right, which is like, the process of, like, you know, if you about to have a brutal death in the tv, you gotta get your head casted. Cause, like, they need something to bang in, you know what I mean? So they make a fake prosthetic version. When I walked into that office, I was like, oh, no, something is wrong. I made a mistake. You know what I mean? And I call up Sasha Penn, who's the creator and the showrunner of Raising Canaan. I'm like, yo, is there any way? Damn. Because you know what it was? I had that moment, and I'm like, yo, I felt like I was, like, at a crossroads. So first I called my mom, because my mom is somebody who is just going to give it to me raw. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, yo, like, what should I do? Because at the time, there was something on the horizon that wasn't set in stone yet. So I was cool with walking away from the show because I'm like, I'm about to walk into this other opportunity when I get back from tour. And then my mom had dropped some wisdom on me, like, yo, one in the hand is better than two in the bush. That's right. And I Was like, all right, let me call you back. And I called up Sasha and I'm like, yo, is there any way we could reverse? Cause he never wanted to let me go. He never wanted to kill my character.

[Nyla Simone]

I mean, right?

[Joey Badass]

What?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Exactly.

[Joey Badass]

He never wanted to kill him. And then he was just like, yo, Joey, like, tell me you serious? Because if you are, like, I'm gonna make some calls. And it's like, you cannot play with me. And I'm like, nah, I'm dead serious. And he made it happen for me. And I left the fucking head casting.

[Nyla Simone]

Thank God for.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I was so pissed. I'm glad you only look at DMs, bro. I was up in there. I was mad at him. Like, he was really unique and he's not unique.

He only wanted to kill you if you wanted to die.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. Really?

[Nyla Simone]

Were you dying to tell us? Like, all right, guys, I'm coming back. Because everybody was tweeting you, you know, mentioning it was a whole thing.

[Joey Badass]

It was a yo. So it's kind of fucked up because I had to even lie to my castmates. Yeah. Like, I couldn't even tell my castmates.

[Nyla Simone]

Why, though?

[Joey Badass]

Cause that's what they told me. They was like, yo, like, you can't tell nobody because it was a cliffhanger, right? So it was. Everybody was still shooting. Like, I dodged episode five and it's like they had to keep going. So it was like, they're like, nah, we gotta keep the character. Like, we gotta keep the characters safe. Like, everybody gotta believe that shit, right? And I was like, oh, I mean.

[Nyla Simone]

All right, that makes sense. It's really cool because 50 Cent do be doing some random, random near death moments. And then they come back.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What did 50 say during that time? Or he's gonna have that type of involvement.

[Joey Badass]

What did he say at that time? I didn't speak to 50 till after when I had came back. And yeah, he had. He pulled up on me one day and, like, it was just me and him, like, we just chopping up for, like 45 minutes. 50 is like, he said a lot. He said a lot that day, you know what I'm saying? He dropped a lot of game and wisdom, and I could tell that, like, he got respect for me and obviously is mutual, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, nah, he was just basically like, yo, you got it. N. You the one. Like, you could do whatever the fuck you want to do in this joint. And he was like, yo, you know, I wanna let you know I got like, 30 plus other shows, so it's whatever you wanna do, you know what I'm saying? And, like, you know, just kind of giving me that talk, and I'm like, word.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, I wanna go back to the music for a minute.

[Joey Badass]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, you've always kept that classic New York City sound. Do you ever feel any pressure to evolve with the times?

[Joey Badass]

Pressure? I feel like I did in the past, but I feel like now I'm at a point. It's like, man, I feel like when you get to, like, you know, your 30s, and then I think I've had an accelerated growth. So Even though I'm 30, I feel like I live like I'm 37. That's how my lifestyle is, for real. And I just feel like I'm at the point where it's like, man, like, I know exactly who I am. You know what I'm saying? So I don't. I don't feel the pressure to, like, do anything that anybody else is doing. Like, I just want to do me. Like, I'm very content and fulfilled by doing what I want to do and what feels natural and true and authentic for me. Yeah. Because it's like, if it don't feel authentic, it's like I feel off, you know what I mean? I feel out of balance.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So with that said, coming from a borough like Brooklyn, which is so rich in hip hop, how did it feel watching so many Brooklyn artists embrace, like, Drill music?

[Joey Badass]

That's an interesting question. I mean, it felt like. Because I feel like Drill didn't come from New York, you know what I'm saying? It came from, like. I mean, where did it come from?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Chicago.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, London. Chicago. So, I mean, I thought it was interesting, though. Like, I wasn't mad at nobody, whatever, you know what I'm saying? Like, it kind of eventually, you know, New York made his own version of it type of thing, you know? But, yeah, I mean, listen, like, that's what they do. I do what. What I do. Like, I. I've always been proud of, like, just doing my own thing, you know, I'm saying, being able to stand over here in, like, my own lane and shit like that. Like, I just always been content with that, you know what I mean? But shout out to all the homies, you know what I'm saying? Because I know all of these guys and everything, you know, Mutuals. Shit. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You got a residency at nyu.

[Joey Badass]

This is correct. Well, I had one. I had one. It's over now. Yeah. How did that come out?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How did that come about.

[Joey Badass]

So I started a mentorship program called Impact Mentorship, which provides professional mentorship for men of color in the United States and Puerto Rico. And you know, one thing kind of led to another and NYU noticed the work that I was doing and they reached out for me to do an artist in residency. And I was actually the youngest artist to ever do a residency there. And it was beautiful, man. Like, I'm all for connecting with, you know, the younger generations and sharing my wisdom because I feel like, you know, I ain't come this, this far to just like not share what I've learned with people. Like, I'm very big on, like going back to the navigation analogy, like, I'm very big on, like, yo, I've been down this road, there's a pothole right there. Make sure you go left. Or yo, that room right there is on fire. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I mean, you could go see for yourself, but just know as soon as you touch that door handle, your hand is going to burn. You know what I mean? You know, sometimes people still want to, you know, but I'm very big on sharing that information because that wasn't done for me all the time in my come up, you know what I'm saying? So I want to make sure that I could use myself as not only an example, but as a tool for like, you know, people on the come up, you know what I mean?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Cause yeah, what you can hear though, when you listen to your music, even just a regular conversation, when you said earlier you said Charlamagne, you were really expressing some type of feelings this day, you know what I'm saying? But when you listen to like the underwaters, like I said, the three feet away, the speeding through the rain, you clearly are addressing your mental and emotional well being. So do you share the work you've done with people?

[Joey Badass]

Oh yeah, yeah. Like this project right here, like it done went platinum already amongst my friends and family.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[Joey Badass]

You know what I'm saying? Like shout out to Untitled is an app that they allow you to kind of like, you know, share music. And it's like, yo, my got 5,000 streams already. But not literally, like it got 5,000 plays just for me sharing it with my friends and my family. And it's like seeing everybody gravitate to this, gravitate to that. Like, you know, I kind of like my village is very involved in, you know, the music that I'm making and producing.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And you, I heard you talk about meditation before. Oh yeah, Therapy.

[Joey Badass]

Oh yeah. All of that, okay, all of that, all of the fucking, the self improvement shit, like, I'm all about it. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What's more therapeutic? Actual therapy or going in the booth and getting it off? You know, you always hear the artist be like, your therapy is. Yeah, yeah, my music is my therapy.

[Joey Badass]

You know, it's interesting you asked that because, you know, I think both are therapeutic. I think, you know, when you in the booth though, it's like it's just letting off steam, almost like, you know what I'm saying? You get to express, but like, do you really get to understand? You know what I mean? And I feel like that's what sitting down with the therapist really brings to you is like, it helps you get to that place of like knowing why things are happening to you and not just like what are. What is happening to, you know what I'm saying? I feel like the music gives me the outlet to talk about what is happening, but therapy gives me the outlet to understand why things are happening. You know what I'm saying? And yeah, it's like I actually am looking for a therapist at the moment.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, another new one?

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, yeah, a new one. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Why do you think you need a new one?

[Joey Badass]

Well, I loved my past one, but it's like, it's just been a little minute since, you know, we connected. So it was just like, I'm looking for somebody new. Yeah. Cause it's like, yeah, you know, we gotta. We gonna have to do the whole thing anyway, like, you know, re download and shit like that. But yeah, but yeah, he was. He was great. And he. He helped me a lot. He helped me a lot.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I love when black men learn early what I learned late. Cause I didn't start going to therapy until I was 36. 36, 37. So what was the moment you realized you needed it?

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[Joey Badass]

All?

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[Joey Badass]

So I actually had did one of those therapist sessions with Noisey. You remember those joints they used to put out with the rappers, the therapist series.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Prodigy did one, two work.

[Joey Badass]

Prodigy did one, YG did one, I did one. And it's funny because that's the first time I ever did therapy. It was live for the world to see, you know what I mean? And I felt like indifferent about that at the time, but I was very glad that I did it. And I was very like, you know, typical, like he gonna say, like he gonna help me with it. And I end up like crying in interview and all type of shit. And then after that, I actually connected with him and that's who became my therapist.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wow.

[Joey Badass]

Like the next five years, you know, I mean, we, we conducted private sessions after that and you know, and yeah, shout out to Dr. Siri like he's, he's. He has helped me become a better person. Yeah, for sure.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I love that. I love how you can be transparent about that. Not many men can be transparent about that. Prior to your relationship with Saraya, you kept your personal life very private. Like we knew very little about you. And I know that is intentional, but how hard has it been adjusting to people knowing? Because we still don't know a lot. But just even knowing that part of it. How have you been adjusting to that?

[Joey Badass]

I would say that it's a learning experience because it's pretty new for me. But what's not new for me is being a public figure. So I'm somewhat used to and normalize the idea that I'm free game, you know what I'm saying? Like, my life is up for anybody to talk about, like, at least whatever I show.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Joey Badass]

You know what I mean? So I just try to be as cognizant as that as possible and, you know, show what I want them to see and, you know, not show other things. Like, you know, I don't. I've never been a person to like, you know, really show my kids like that on social media. Because, you know, like, you know, with my daughter, for example, like, her mom and I is obviously not together. So, like, there are moments where my daughter is not gonna be with me. And the last thing that I want is for people coming up to her because, you know what I'm saying, they know me or something like that. Yeah. So it's like, I do that out of protection. And. Yeah, I'm very, very critical about protecting the people in my life, you know what I'm saying? It's like I'm not just. Cause these people are not on the stage. I am. You know what I mean? So I'm built for this, you know what I'm saying? The public opinion and stuff like that. People say negative things to me. I see negative things all the time. I don't respond, I don't engage. But these people are not, you know what I'm saying? It's like, that'll really affect their world and affect their energy, you know what I'm saying? So I do my best to protect my loved ones.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You think people realize how popular you are in Hollywood?

[Joey Badass]

How popping I am?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You was part of a project that won an Oscar, bro.

Crazy.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah. I mean, shit. Listen, man, I don't think I really give a fuck about that type of shit. Charlamagne, you know what I'm saying? If you came to my house, you will understand why I don't give a fuck. I live a beautiful life, you know what I'm saying? I pray every day, every morning. If the world gotta catch up with some type of understanding of who I am, inshallah. You know what I mean?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So look, why you didn't wear blue at the baby shower?

[Joey Badass]

You from Baltimore? Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, I'm from Baltimore, yo. Yeah. So why you ain't wearing blue?

[Joey Badass]

You just. My lady wore blue.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I got you.

[Joey Badass]

All right, cool. She wore blue. You know, I had to balance it out.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You look nice. No, y' all looked great. I was just. You the first person I saw where Black, all black. Black Panther at the. The baby shower. It was not planned, but you look nice. It was a beautiful event from what we saw. We didn't really see much from the baby shower, but from what we saw, y' all did look nice.

[Joey Badass]

Thank you.

[Nyla Simone]

Being that you are somebody who's so evolved and, like, deep in the work with therapy and stuff like that, how did you feel about J. Cole's apology during the whole rap battle?

[Joey Badass]

I understood it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I definitely understood.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's like a head down.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah. Because you know what it's like, I don't wanna. Like, I'm really not looking for a moment of, like, a clickbait thing, you know what I'm saying? I'm really trying to be intentional about what I say, but I understood it. I just feel like if. I just feel like he should have never engaged in the first place, you know? That's it. That's all I'm saying. Like, you just never engaged if it was going to be about that. So, you know, and referencing back to the line that you had brought up, and that's why I said, it's like, you know, I won't. I won't do that. Like, I won't. I won't delete. Like, if I'm gonna say something, I ain't gonna take it back. I'm gonna take everything that comes with that, you know what I'm saying? Even if it's a conversation to be had, like, yo, I didn't mean it like that. Like, it's my intention, but I'm still going to stand on what I said, you know what I mean? But whatever. I mean, I think it was commendable that if he felt that he did something out of pocket, and he was like, yo, that's not me, y'. All, like, forgive me. I respect that. You know what I'm saying? Like, that it takes a real man to do that, but I just feel like he should have never engaged.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Was that your approach when you was going back and forth with all the west coast rappers? Like, when you was writing your bars, you was like, let me be intentional about every word, because the things I say, I'm gonna stand.

[Joey Badass]

Well, not initially, honestly, you know what I'm saying? Cause when I wrote rulers back, I honestly didn't think that it was gonna get all of that. Like, I thought, like, you know, I thought that people. Sometimes I look at it as, like, I have so many peers in this thing, and everybody who's gonna hear it is gonna have the same perspective as my peers. And it's like, it was one of those moments where I had to realize that, like, yo, this landed on the doorstep of a lot of people who don't know you, you know what I'm saying? Who don't know your character, don't know your personality. So I had to deal with that. But even still, I stood on what I said, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, yo, I ain't about to just jump on Twitter like, yo, boom, boom, boom. Like, nah, I said what I said, and I know what my intention was about it. But if you feel some type of way, you feel some type of way, you know what I'm saying? I can't do nothing about that.

[Nyla Simone]

That sucks, though, because perception can be louder than your intention.

[Joey Badass]

Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? And again, being a public figure, this is one of the things that you come to realize and why you gotta be super intentional, you know what I mean? You gotta think about it all. And I think that's the only misstep that I made was not really taking the time and sitting with myself and really thinking the type of effect that that was gonna have. Cause like I said, for me, it was playful. Like, I was in the studio the night before, and then we recorded the video. Soon as we came out the studio, and we put it up the next day, it was no thought, you know what I'm saying? It was just like, yo, we in it. I feel good. Let's do some off the wall shit. Let's just put it out. Yeah, it's music. It's. What's the word? It was like in the moment, you know what I'm saying?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And yeah, I'll tell you one thing. You know what that moment made me realize? There's not a lot of new spitters from New York, because the spitters from New York who actually can spit that are new, some of them jumped out there and, you know, got busy with you. A couple. Like, who was the one? It was one.

[Joey Badass]

It was just one.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, he was the only one.

[Joey Badass]

Meanwhile, and then my home is pretty.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, when you got from PR, but then it was like six dudes from the West Coast. Reason it was like 50 people.

[Joey Badass]

It was. You know what? Like, in addition to all of the names that, like, are. Are like, you know, more known, there was also like 10 more, 20 more people who we don't know. Like, every day, like, I would go online And I just like, Joey badass this. I'm like another one.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But I like, man, I like that.

[Joey Badass]

Though, because I'm in.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

In the conversation n is paying attention, like, so, I mean, not for nothing, I like that.

But do you feel like the New York rappers were too complacent, though? Don't you feel like more of them should have rolled with you? Or maybe they just didn't have the lyrical ability to.

[Joey Badass]

Baby, I don't like who, though? I don't. Yeah, I don't think that, like, I don't feel away about nobody jumping in because it's like, yo, I'm gonna handle my business. You know what I'm saying? It's like, if I'm on the street and I get into a fight or somebody is jumping me and I don't see none of my friends around, I'm not just gonna think that a random person on this, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, especially if what's perceived as I provoke the fight, I'm gonna handle my stuff. You know what I'm saying? I don't feel no way that nobody ain't, like, jumping, like, I'm gonna handle my stuff.

[Nyla Simone]

I saw Benny tweet out like, I think Joey is handling himself.

[Joey Badass]

I saw that too.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, yeah, you could have wrote a verse, Benny. You could have wrote eight balls or something.

[Joey Badass]

But you know what, too, what I will say to that point, I'm glad nobody else jumped in. Because even though I was going back and forth, I have enough ties and allies over there where that shit was never going to go left field. It was never going to go out of pocket. And I feel like if anybody else would have jumped in, it could have got convoluted like that. Now we talking about street shit and all of that. You know what I'm saying? So I was able to control it in the type of way where it's like, that's not what this is about. You know what I mean? And I feel like any other type of interference it could have took, it blew it out of proportion.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm glad that New York niggas rapping when Gina views told n to rap. That wasn't just for the west Coast. Oh, you know. You know what I'm saying? I wanted to hear everybody getting busy.

[Joey Badass]

Well, you know, shit, you know, it's lonely at the top niggas, interesting times. Who knows what'll unfold.

[Nyla Simone]

Is it done, though? Like, do you think it's actually done? Cause I felt like, absolutely, yeah. Are you sure? Because it Started in January, then we had, like, a gap. Then it picked back up. So I feel like now you about to drop this album.

[Joey Badass]

Listen. Shout out to the homie Daylight. Shout out to the homie Rayvon. Like, you know, not the homie, but somebody who I have since spoken to. We had a conversation. We spoke about it. Like, peace. Yeah, of course. It's like, yo, you did your stuff, like, mutual respect, that type of thing. So it was like, yeah, like, it's done. It was never no real issue in the first place. I said something. Some people felt the way they said they stuff back to me, but nobody wanted to hurt me, you know what I'm saying? It was never about no bodily harm or nothing like that. So this is something that we could like, I bet. Boom.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's music.

[Joey Badass]

You know, we had our little friendly fade, and, like, we gonna keep it pushing, you know?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Is TDE East a real thing?

[Joey Badass]

I think it can be.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[Joey Badass]

Okay. Yeah. So, you know, me and Top had some conversations, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it can be a real thing, you know, if we want it to be interesting. Yeah.

[Nyla Simone]

Now you performing Jimmy Fallon, right?

[Joey Badass]

Jimmy Kimmel.

[Nyla Simone]

Jimmy Kimmel. You performed the diss on Jimmy Kimmel. I'm like, this is.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I love when people get with their white people confused. They do it to us all the time. They do it to us all the time. It's okay, Nyla.

[Joey Badass]

It's okay.

[Nyla Simone]

I really don't. I was just entertained to see you do that, like, on a show like that.

[Joey Badass]

Word. Yeah. Nah. Thank you. Yeah. You know, I like. I like pushing the envelope and, like, you know, doing things outside of my comfort zone. So, like, that was one of those.

[Nyla Simone]

Moments for me also, like the choral, the dancing.

[Joey Badass]

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love. I love. I love that aspect as well. You know what I'm saying? And I like when it comes to, like, award shows and, like, I'm a performer, you know what I'm saying? I want to put on a show every time, you know what I mean? And I'm never just gonna have, like, a certain type of moment and not do something, like, somewhat theatrical with it. You know what I mean? Yes.

[Nyla Simone]

It adds a lot of value because I feel like a lot of rappers are very on the mic.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, yeah. You know. You know, too cool and like that. And I could be one of those rappers, but that was definitely one of those moments where I'm like, yo, I want to challenge myself to do something different and new, and we we did that all in, like a day, you know what I'm saying?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So I do want to ask one last thing about the. The back and forth with the raps. Why Kendrick? Why did you want Kendrick in particular?

[Joey Badass]

I didn't want Kendrick in particular. I think that the narrative became that because when I said too much west coast dick licking, everybody is like, oh, he hating on Kendrick. He talk about Kendrick. I'm like, nigga, I'm not hating on Kendrick. Like those. I love those guys. You know what I'm saying? I've had a long standing relationship with these guys from the beginning of time. By the way, me and Absol announcing today, we about to go on tour.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, we're ready.

[Joey Badass]

Me, Absol, and the Rap City is going on tour, you know what I'm saying? So it's like the Dark Overture. Yep. Coming this fall. So it was like, you know, to a lot of my confusion, I feel like people were trying to build that narrative that, like, yo, Joey is hating on Kendrick. He's, like, hating on his success and he wants to battle. I think for me, it's just more about I'm always going to be a competitive rapper. All of these guys know that because they're the same way, too. You know what I'm saying? But it's like, is in the spirit of, like, love and just, like, competitive energy. It's like, I don't. I don't. I don't. Hate is not in my blood. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't hate on no man type shit, you know what I mean? So I think people made that the narrative. And all of the people who responded to me adopted that narrative. Like, oh, you hating on die. When Rayvon first responded, like, a lot of his shit was like, oh, the pop out did this for niggas. I'm like, great. You know what I'm saying? I'm not mad at nigga. I was fucking Crip walking and not like us all summer. You know what I'm saying?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Are you allowed to do that?

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, I'm allowed to do that. What you mean, if I'm allowed to do that?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's crazy.

[Joey Badass]

Why not?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You a Crip?

I don't know.

[Joey Badass]

I Crip walk, bro. What the. You. You don't got to be Crip to.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Crip walk to it.

[Nyla Simone]

I don't know.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't know.

[Nyla Simone]

Okay?

[Joey Badass]

You ain't got to be Crip to Crip walk, okay? You know what I'm saying? Crip walk. Like the. I'm. I'mma hit my shit, I'mma do my dance. Ain't nobody gonna do nothing about it. You know what I'm saying? The but yeah, you know what I'm saying. So I was walking to now like us all summer. Like I said, you know what I mean?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You're not getting no more juice. I wanted to ask. You said you was at Metro Boom in Metro booming. I love Metro booming project, by the way, you know what I mean? Because I like how he pays homage to that era. Have you ever thought about doing something like that with like a Pete Rock or Premier? Cause your flow is so 1990 now. I would love to hear you with that level of production. Have you ever thought about that? I know you got Static select on the new joint.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've thought about that. Shout out to Metro too. Because I loved how nostalgically ATL that project sounded like. I really did appreciate that. But yeah, yeah, yeah, I have those thoughts and I think that I have those pockets even on this project too. You know what I'm saying? But making something fully in that vein. I could see that. I could see that. Maybe we should have a conversation about that. You let me know who you think I could pull that off.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's easy. Havoc, Pete Rock, 9th Wonder, Premier.

[Joey Badass]

But it's like you saying mad names. It's like I need you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, you wanna do a one in general, right? Okay.

[Joey Badass]

You don't think so?

[Nyla Simone]

I think one in general would be good. Especially right now in the climate. Like Alchemist has done that a lot. Static.

[Joey Badass]

Even though I would love to do a project with Alchemist, me and Static, we already got like a project of material like just in the vault, you know? You know what I mean? So that's easy. That's a no brainer. But I would also really love to do a project with Alchemist for sure.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Who would you lock in with like a classic New York producer if you had to pick one?

[Joey Badass]

Oh shit. Me and Havoc, we've been talking about working too. Pete Rock is my man, you know what I'm saying? Since the beginning. Me and P Rock first worked together in like 2012. We still got some shit on the hard drive from then.

[Nyla Simone]

It sounds like we have a tape already then.

[Joey Badass]

I'm just saying, oh yeah, we could definitely make it happen. We could definitely make it happen. That's something that I could do. I think the only reason I haven't done it because I felt like it was so low, low hanging fruit. That's probably why I haven't done it and it's like, I can't get songs like underwater if I do that type of shit.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Why not?

[Nyla Simone]

I feel like just because it's easy don't mean you should do it. It's just easy to you, but it ain't easy for other people to do. That's why you should do it.

[Joey Badass]

Nah, you're right. You're right. And it's like, yeah, I'm leaving that, like, you know, I'm leaving here with some.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you feel like substance is undervalued in today's music industry?

[Joey Badass]

I do, I do think that substance is undervalued. And yeah, you know, I think that we live in a very godless world. Godless society is very vain. So it's like, I think the music is a reflection of that. And I think, you know, I think Nina Simone said something like that. Like the music is always going to kind of be a reflection or speak to the times. And that just happened to be the times that we. Yeah, so I think we do need to appreciate and lift up the artists who are, you know, going out they way to make intentional and substantial music and messages. Because it's important. It's just like, it just happens to be that like, you know, people like sweets and what I mean by that is like, you know, metaphorically speaking, like candy and like, you know, people like to get the buzz quick and shit like that. And sometimes, you know, the more medicated stuff, if you will, is not as, you know, bright and colorful. Yeah.

[Nyla Simone]

So shiny objects.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I feel like when you sacrifice the substance, you sacrifice in your mental and emotional well being. So what would you say to younger artists who feel like they need to sacrifice their substance, their mental health just to have success?

[Joey Badass]

What would I say to young artists who has to come again, Sacrifice this.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Sacrifice the substance for success or sacrifice their mental health?

[Joey Badass]

Well, I feel like for the young artists who are not being substantial, I don't think they're necessarily sacrificing anything. I think that's just who they are, you know what I'm saying? And I think that they are a reflection of what their life cycle or their lifestyle looks like, you know what I mean? So to the young people out there in general, you know what I'm saying? I would say to like, you know, really take your life seriously and like, you know, look at the people who's around you and really think about what kind of information are you gaining, you know what I mean? Because if you, the smartest person in the room, like, you know, you obviously in the Wrong room. They say that all the time. But also, I believe in learning. I believe in you. See, we live in a society too, where the information is there, but nobody has a thirst or hunger, passion for knowledge. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, yo, right now I'm in a point in my life where I'm telling everybody around me, because now I've become so into it. Like, I'm telling everybody around me like, y' all gotta get into these stocks, bro. Get into these stocks, get into these crypto. You know what I'm saying? Because, like, I'm looking at it from perspective. Like, I'm already rich and successful. You know what I mean? So for me, it's easy to, like, throw 50k into the market and flip that and see what it do for me.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But you said 80, like a Kobe game on.

[Joey Badass]

On the tape, you know what I'm saying? So it's easy for me to do that and see the return, but it's really a matter of the percentages, right? Where it's like, okay, you know, you could throw. I'm throwing an 80k, but you could throw an 800 and get a 60 return and, like, you know, put that up and reinvest that, rinse and repeat. Because I'm like, yo, if I wasn't doing what I was doing, I think I'd be a day trader right now. And it's just like, it's so. And this is what I mean. Like, there was an interview clip with me and Gilly that had went viral. And it's just like I said in there, like, it's so much money out here for all of us. And I really do believe that. But what's keeping people from that money is being too lazy to obtain the knowledge. And it's like, yo, why are we. Like, they didn't teach us this in school, but the knowledge is still out there. Like, I've taught myself this shit over the last six months by just being on YouTube videos, yo, how to options trade, how to. You know what I'm saying? Boom, boom. Like, doing my research on these companies. Boom, boom. And now, because I've had a portfolio like, you know, with Morgan Stanley for like 10 plus years. And it's just like, I've always just put money in there, and they gave me my 12% standard return on the yearly, but now I'm doing my own plays, and now my shit's going crazy because I'm paying attention, attention. So what I'm seeing now is like, damn, like, this was this Was just a matter of me not knowing, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's the only thing that was keeping me from this bag right here was just that I didn't know. So I'm. I'm like screaming off the mountaintop right now at this point in my life to all my people, like, yo, get into these stocks, you know what I'm saying? Before they find a way to fucking lock us out. Because there's so much money in it and it's so accessible nowadays. Like, yo, get Robin Hood. You don't got Robin Hood on your phone. Get Robin Hood, you know what I'm saying? Go down the deep dive. Go on bar chart. Go on Bloomberg News, cnbc, see what's going on. Tapping.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Listen to Wall street trapper.

[Joey Badass]

Wall street trapper. On your leisure. Chris Sane, John Hope, run stock, brother, you know what I mean? These are pages that I follow, you know what I'm saying? People, brothers who have educated me, shout out to Rashad, shout out to Troy, shout out to 19 keys, you know what I'm saying? But, like, this is serious. Like, my young people out there, like, this shit is serious. And it's like, the sooner you get in, the more like thankful you're gonna be, you know what I'm saying? Like, yo, I remember when bitcoin was at 8,000, and I was like, that's a lot for a stock, but I should have bought five of those right now it was at 115,000 today, and it's going to 200, and after it go to 200, it's going to a million. So even right now, you should get in, you know what I'm saying? Like, you should get in. Yeah. Like, you got CEOs right now who saying that they putting in 10,000 every day. If they could sell their company, they all their shares and put it in bitcoin. I can't tell y' all who said that, but it's a real notable billionaire, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, yo, we gotta get into it, man. Like, when they want to hide shit from us, it's like they just kind of make it intricate to obtain, you know what I'm saying? We gotta get it, we gotta find it. It's out there.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He giving you this game cause he don't want to be lonely no more.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't want to be lonely. I don't. You know what I'm saying? And by the way, you know I want to Talk about that a little bit too. So Lonely at the Top is also homage to one of my favorite gangstar songs, which is Moment of Moment of Truth. And like, you know, I. I kind of do a vocal interpolation of it on my self titled track, Lonely at the Top on the album. And it's just like those. That's always been one of the songs to me that has resonated deep in my hip hop heart. Like Recipes the Guru and you know, just what that means to me is like when you get to the pinnacle of your success in your life, you will find that it is lonely. You will find that a lot of the people that you try to bring with you on that journey are like no longer kind of standing around you. Like sometimes like I feel like, you know, connecting it to survivor's guilt or connecting it to like, you know, the deep self reflection that you have or even the isolation that might be necessary for you to get to a certain type of place because certain people or energy will hold you back. That's right, you know what I'm saying? From you being at the top of your game, you being your best self, you know what I'm saying? So that's what the title means for me. Cause I just wanted to address that. Cause I have seen people be like, at the top of what we're like, what are you at the top of? You know what I'm saying?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

If you haven't achieved success, people are crazy.

[Joey Badass]

It's crazy. It's like, bro, you should see my house, you know what I mean? You would know what I'm on top of, you know what I mean? You know, you can't live in my neighborhood, you know what I mean? So. But yeah, I just.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So my last question, why dark auradon? Cause everything I'm hearing you speak speaks to light. It speaks to brightness.

[Joey Badass]

Oh yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm like leaning into the shadow side.

[Joey Badass]

It's a balance, okay? You know, it's a balance. And I'm actually glad you brought that up because this project, I feel like, is a balanced project. Like it all exists all at once. It's like, yeah, I'm gonna talk with light, but then you gonna see the Joey in the sneaker store throwing them uppercuts. Because it's like, you know, sometimes it call, you gotta defend yourself or you gotta, you gotta stand up for yourself, if you will. And sometimes that's gonna take you to a dark place. It's all necessary. It's all part of the journey, you know what I'm saying? You can't just be like, how would you even know what light is if you ain't know what dark was? You know what I'm saying?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So, yeah, Joey Badass, Lonely at the top drops August 29th. Good to see you, brother. Man. Keep growing, man. Keep evolving.

[Joey Badass]

King like wise. Absolutely. Thank y' all for having me. Today.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's the Breakfast Club.

[Joey Badass]

Hold up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Every day I wake up.

[Joey Badass]

Wake your ass up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The Breakfast Club.

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

This is an iHeart podcast.