INTERVIEW: Josh Johnson Talks 2026 Webby Awards, New HBO Special, The Daily Show, Comedy Vs. Journalism + More

Summary

The Breakfast Club

Episode: INTERVIEW: Josh Johnson Talks 2026 Webby Awards, New HBO Special, The Daily Show, Comedy Vs. Journalism + More
Release Date: May 11, 2026
Guest: Josh Johnson
Hosts: DJ Envy, Angela Yee, Charlamagne Tha God, Jess Hilarious, Lauren LaRose
Podcast Network: The Black Effect Podcast Network & iHeartPodcasts

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Overview

This episode features comedian and writer Josh Johnson, who discusses his role as the host of the 2026 Webby Awards, his new HBO special "Symphony, Symphony, Symphony," his journey in stand-up and TV writing (notably The Daily Show and The Tonight Show), and the intersection between comedy and journalism. The conversation explores Josh’s comedic style, the evolving world of stand-up in the internet era, the impact of social media, and how comedians navigate storytelling, authenticity, and social critique.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Waking Up Early & Comedian’s Schedules

• [02:54] Josh jokes about the early morning radio schedule and how it’s a stretch for a comic used to late-night sets.

  “How do you all wake up so early and seem so bright?” – Josh
  “This is our noon. I know, this feels insane.” – DJ Envy
  “I felt like I was hit by a truck...my alarm went off and I usually wake up a little later to get to the show…those couple hours make a huge difference.” – Josh (03:30)

2. The Stand-Up Grind & Comedy Club War Stories

• [05:02] Josh recounts tough gigs, including being forced to perform in a sports bar during Chicago Blackhawks playoff games, reflecting on the importance of difficult sets.

  “I got two laughs that I was never supposed to get. Because when you start from boo, right?...boo is what would be appropriate in that situation.” – Josh (07:12)

• Recalls ‘Jokes and Notes’ as a formative club — bombing for half a set, changing material, and learning the importance of adapting quickly.

  “Second half of the set, I get into some of my weirder stuff. And you could just tell in the room where they were like, we trusted you. What are you doing right now?” – Josh (09:26) “[The host said] ‘There’s a young brother out here doing his best. He got a dream…give one more round of applause before I bring your headliner up.’ ... I’m in the back like, no, they were right…The laughs aren’t wrong.” – Josh (10:23)

3. Comedy as Observation & Storytelling

• [12:15] Angela asks if Josh sees himself as a comedian or a social observer first.

  “I would definitely hope ... a comic first...I just choose to do things through stories...a lot of stories are more memorable than some one-liners...stories end up helping you when you have that sort of social observation.” – Josh (12:25)

• Discusses empathy and the importance of connecting universal experience through storytelling, not just topical jokes.

4. Comedy in the Internet/TikTok Era

• [14:10] Slow storytelling as rebellion against a rapid, high-energy, short-form internet world.

  “Being subtle like yourself ... is actually more...rebellious, I guess...” – Angela
  “For the people that it worked for, it worked well enough where they were like, ‘oh, I’ll watch this guy on TikTok for eight minutes at a time.’” – Josh (14:20)

• Cautions against always chasing the biggest audience; emphasizes personal fulfillment over an endless numbers game.

5. Origins & Inspirations in Comedy

• [16:55] Started comedy in Chicago, influenced by family humor.

  “I feel like I come from very funny people...I was genuinely very happy working at the grocery store and doing comedy at night.” – Josh (16:55)

• Chicago comedy culture valued experimentation over industry pressures found in L.A., leading to creative freedom.

• Influences: Bill Burr, Christopher Titus, Wanda Sykes, D.L. Hughley, sitcoms (“Whatever my mom would let me watch. As long as they didn’t curse...") (19:10)

6. Career ‘Breaks’: Tonight Show & The Daily Show

• [19:59] Getting the Tonight Show writing job was a turning point—led to industry legitimacy and future opportunities.

  “Getting the job at the Tonight Show changed a lot for me...I could quit at the grocery store. I didn’t right away...” – Josh (19:59)

• Circuitous path from stand-up tapes, to submitting writing ‘packets,’ to interviews, to full-time staff writing.

• Left Tonight Show, failed pilot, then landed at The Daily Show via writing packet and interview.

  "Trevor [Noah] hired me." – Josh (22:42)

7. Entertainment Industry & Ownership

• [23:37] Advises young creatives to always have personal projects—even while seeking traditional industry jobs.

  “The overall future of any sort of entertainment endeavor is...make your own things independently while trying to get these jobs..." – Josh (23:37)

• The necessity of self-production and direct connection to audience via podcasting and YouTube.

8. The Writing Process & Output

• [26:40] Stand-up now is about writing—and sharing—much more rapidly than in the past.

  “Now y’all just writing, taking the content, sharing it on social media...not afraid to give up these jokes.” – Angela

• The pandemic forced adaptability; YouTube and platforms gave comedians new outlets.

9. Creative Freedom with HBO vs. Networks

• [28:42] Johnson praises HBO as hands-off and selective, supporting timeless, distinctive work unlike the “churn” of Netflix or other platforms.

  “HBO never really stepped in on the writing or told me what bit to cut...They treat each piece of work like its own unique thing...” (31:06)

• Johnson’s goal: each special should feel different, push boundaries, and avoid becoming stale.

10. Writing for Others & Ego Check

• [36:29] Writing jokes for other voices is a discipline; jokes have to fit the subject's rhythm, not just be funny.

  “There’s a music to how people speak. And sometimes you can write something that on its face is amazing...but it’s something you would never say...” – Josh (36:58)

• He advocates for letting go of ego in collaborative writing environments.

  “Being able to step aside of your ego makes it really easy...then you don’t see every rejection as a rejection of you.” – Josh (41:22)

11. Comedy vs. Journalism

• [49:32] Johnson is adamant that comedians are not journalists, and warns against the audience blurring that distinction.

  "I always make the point to tell people that I am a fake journalist...We're doing a comedy show." – Josh (49:43) "I think using comedians as journalism can be really dangerous...as a comedian, you're not checking sources, you're trying to make people laugh." – Josh (51:57)

• Emphasizes the importance of skepticism, multiple news sources, and not mistaking entertainment for factual reporting.

• Example: the rise of independent ‘reporters’ like Nick Shirley and how intention, amplification, and methodology matter in judging their impact and credibility (69:52).

12. Compassion & Empathy in Modern Comedy (with a nod to Chappelle)

• [60:36] Johnson and the hosts discuss whether “compassion is underrated in comedy right now,” especially as negativity often drives attention.

  “Having some empathy...sometimes people mistake empathy with agreement...If I understand you, I get you a little bit deeper than these people who are...just gonna rail against you all day...” – Josh (60:49-62:56)

• The dangers of ‘dunking’ culture and diss records as paths to viral success, compared to Johnson’s “empathetic” observational approach.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On bombing in sports bars:

  “I was doing some of my best jokes, and they were like, you're not the game. This is terrible.” – Josh (05:02)

• On adapting after bombing:

  "It was honestly the most 8 Mile I’d ever been in my career where I was like, oh, oh Lord, what am I gonna do? ... second show, I did genuinely, like, incredibly well." – Josh (10:23)

• On subtlety as rebellion:

  "Being subtle like yourself, like, laid back, in a sense, is actually more…. It's actually rebellious, I guess." – Angela (14:10)

• On creative ownership:

  "Having your own thing...is the future of all entertainment." – Josh (25:28)

• On ego and opportunity:

  "Sometimes taking that back seat once in a while and learning from someone, even if...you’re better than this person, or you could be doing this thing better...you’re not in that position right now for a reason." – Josh (46:36)

• On empathy vs. antagonism in comedy:

  "Compassion is underrated in comedy right now? I mean, I think so...The Internet...keeps us engaged [with negativity], there's still a shade of us in there." – Josh (60:49)

• On comedians as fake journalists:

  "I always make the point to tell people that I am a fake journalist...we’re doing a comedy show." – Josh (49:43)

• On chasing viral moments vs. growing audience:

  "Once you can have enough [followers], that's what makes people dangerous, because they're like, ok, everything is gravy now." – Josh (14:10)

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Important Timestamps

• Josh’s morning joke & the challenge of early schedule: (02:54–03:30)
• Comedy club horror story (sports bar): (05:02–07:53)
• Adapting after a rough feature set (‘Jokes & Notes’ club): (09:26–12:09)
• Observational over punchline-based comedy: (12:15–14:10)
• Social media, attention economy, and authenticity: (14:10–16:40)
• Influences and Chicago comedy roots: (19:05–19:51)
• Big break—Tonight Show, process of getting hired: (19:59–21:59)
• Transition to The Daily Show: (22:01–22:42)
• Advice on creative independence: (23:37–25:28)
• On rapid writing and content sharing: (26:40–27:41)
• HBO creative freedom vs. other platforms: (28:42–31:06)
• On writing for others and ego: (36:29–41:22)
• Comedy vs. journalism, responsibilities and risks: (49:32–55:01)
• Discussion on how news shapes trending topics: (72:28–74:27)
• Chappelle comment—are young comics too negative? Is compassion underused? (60:00–62:56)

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Conclusion

Josh Johnson’s conversation on The Breakfast Club is a master class in the nuance of modern comedy, the realities of working in the entertainment industry, and the blurry—but critical—line between comedians as observers of culture and actual journalists. He emphasizes empathy, adaptability, and the necessity for comedians to own their craft outside of the traditional industry system. The episode is full of thoughtful laughs, insightful storytelling, and practical wisdom for both young comedians and anyone interested in how comedy, media, and society intersect in 2026.

Transcript

[Charlamagne Tha God]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Josh Johnson]

Guaranteed Human. You've been working in the garage with your dad every week, Monday to Sunday, trying to get the old school up and running. Today, after all the hard work, y'

[Angela Yee]

all finally finished it.

[Josh Johnson]

Even better. Your dad says all yours, son. Yep. Same car that belongs to your grandpa

[Angela Yee]

that your dad helped him fix.

[Josh Johnson]

It's yours. To really keep the tradition going, you need to get State Farm insurance just like them, generation to generation. Remember to choose the agents that your family counted on. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[DJ Envy]

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[Angela Yee]

I get a lot of questions about how I run my business and keep everything operating smoothly, and the answer is Shopify.

[Josh Johnson]

One of the biggest advantages is discoverability. Shopify puts my products in front of

[Angela Yee]

customers wherever they're already shopping. And for my store, whether it's a

[Josh Johnson]

mug, a shirt, or a hoodie, all

[Angela Yee]

the raindrops can get something special to call their own. I'm so pumped because Shopify is going

[Josh Johnson]

to show up at our Black Effect Podcast Festival this year in a big

[Angela Yee]

way for all of our small black owned businesses that partner with us. Build your store, own your audience, and create something that lasts.

[Josh Johnson]

Start [e-mail] Ben, you ever show up

[DJ Envy]

late to the game and your friends already saved your seat, your drink, even a plate that's looking out, that's having your back. And that's exactly what AT&T does with the ATT guarantee. They know staying connected matters, so they actually guarantee a network that comes through when it counts. AT&T has connectivity you can depend on or they'll proactively make it right. Just like that friend who takes care of things before you even ask. AT&T connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.comguaranty for details.

[Josh Johnson]

Hold up. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up.

[Angela Yee]

The Breakfast Club. Y' all finished or y' all done?

[DJ Envy]

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. Lauren laros is here as well. We got a special guest in the building.

[Angela Yee]

Yes, indeed.

[DJ Envy]

He's hosting the 2026 Webby Awards. Ladies and gentlemen, Josh Johnson. Welcome. How you feeling?

[Josh Johnson]

Pretty, pretty Good. How. How are y'?

[DJ Envy]

All?

[Josh Johnson]

Can't complain.

[Angela Yee]

And he's not just hosting the Webby Awards. He is a host and contributor on the Daily show as well. He's got a HBO comedy special coming out called Symphony, Symphony, Symphony on May 22nd.

[DJ Envy]

Yes, we get to all of that. But he's hosting the Webby Awards. That's coming around on the 11th of this month.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lauren LaRose]

How.

[Josh Johnson]

How do you all wake up so early and seem so bright? Yeah, okay, that's fair. That makes a lot of sense.

[DJ Envy]

And we just go crazy.

[Angela Yee]

Pure, no fear.

[Josh Johnson]

Okay. All right.

[Lauren LaRose]

Well, they holding it back for me. Cause I still. I'm still getting used to waking up this early. Maybe they should pass the Cokes.

[Josh Johnson]

Everybody looks great.

[Lauren LaRose]

Thank you.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, you, too, for it to be early.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, okay.

[Josh Johnson]

You know. Yeah, like you would expect everyone to look great by, like, noon. Well, this is.

[DJ Envy]

Right now.

[Josh Johnson]

This is our noon. I know. This feels insane.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you feel like. How do you like getting up this morning? How did you feel? You didn't feel. You looked great? Cause it was so early.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Oh, man, I felt like I was hit by a truck. Cause then my alarm went off, and I usually wake up a little later to get to the show, and, man, those couple hours make a huge difference.

[Angela Yee]

Can I ask you a question, Josh? Have you ever really been hit by a truck?

[Josh Johnson]

No. No.

[Angela Yee]

Why do people say that?

[Josh Johnson]

Why do we say that? Cause you know what it is? It's like, this is what I imagine it would feel like.

[Angela Yee]

Gotcha.

[Josh Johnson]

And so, luckily, I was in bed. I wasn't hit by a truck at all. But I think, you know, if I got by a truck, I don't even think I'd know.

[Angela Yee]

That's right. People in heaven right now screaming down, I got hit by a truck and

[Josh Johnson]

I never woke up.

[Angela Yee]

What are you talking about?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, honestly, when I die, I'mma die so fast, if I got hit by a truck, I wouldn't even fight that hard to stay alive. I'd be like, you got me.

[Angela Yee]

You got me.

[DJ Envy]

No.

[Josh Johnson]

Fair enough. Ford F150. Yeah, you had. Yeah. No, no. I don't even want to see myself. Post truck.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Post truck.

[DJ Envy]

Post. The accident.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. Post truck. Both my shoulders are together.

[Angela Yee]

Nah, but you don't be out and about in New York, like, doing the comedy club thing. Is that a thing?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, but then you get to wake up a little later, you know? Like, I'm fine with staying up late, you know, I'll. I've done, you know, 1am spots and everything, like, that's fine. But then usually you get to wake up at, like, 10.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

After something like that.

[Angela Yee]

I always wonder about that with the younger comics. Right. Because you clearly do stand up, but I don't know what time you do it, but you take the. Those bits and you put them online. So I'm like, do you still got to be out at one o' clock in the morning in the comedy clubs?

[Josh Johnson]

Sometimes I think. I think it's important to just keep doing. Like, there are. There are ways of going about doing everything to stay sharp and get better. But I do think that sometimes you have to do some of those uncomfortable things just to remember what it's like, you know, like, it's very different. Luckily, it's very different when I do a 1am spot now versus before, because the. Honestly, even 1am aside, some of the mics that I would do back in the day, it's like, not only did no one know you were coming, they were very upset you were there. I remember when I was in Chicago, there was a sports bar that had the brilliant idea to have a standup show during the playoffs. Blackhawks are in the playoffs, by the way. And they turned off the TV and they were like, all right, y', all, we're gonna start the show. And people in the bar, like, start the what? And then I'm just stand. They're like, I just bought a computer. Just, like, bombing in a way that doesn't even make sense, because people. It would be different if they knew they had come to a comedy show. And I didn't have good jokes. I was doing some of my best jokes, and they were like, you're not the game. This is terrible.

[DJ Envy]

They set you up. Your manager set you up for that one.

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, at the time, I had no manager.

[DJ Envy]

Oh, you set yourself up for that time.

[Josh Johnson]

I didn't even know what this bar was. I got there, I was like, everybody's in the same jersey. And then they turned off the tv, and I was like, oh, that doesn't seem good. Everyone seems. Because, you know that angry murmuring they usually use for the Foley art in movies? Like, as soon as they turned it, he's like. And then they put the stage on the other side, like, towards. And then they were like, all right, we're gonna start the show.

[DJ Envy]

How long was your set then? At that time?

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, no matter what, my time was too long, but I'm pretty sure it was 12 minutes.

[DJ Envy]

And they booed you off or.

[Josh Johnson]

No, no, they didn't boo. They were Just. They. They just stared, angry. I got the two chuckles that I got. I was like, all right, that's something. You don't even want me here right now. That's pretty good.

[Angela Yee]

That's a great way to look at it, though. But some people would look at them two chuckles and be like, man, all I got is two laughs. You look at it like, well, at least I got two laughs.

[Josh Johnson]

I got two laughs that I was never supposed to get. Because when you start from boo, right? Because. Because boo boo is like, what would be appropriate in that situation? They. They came to see a game at a sports bar. They did everything right. They were like, I'mma go to a sports bar with my friends to watch the Blackhawks in the playoffs, who are doing well. I'm pretty sure we wad that year. And so luckily it wasn't the game, luckily it wasn't the Stanley cup, but they did everything right. And then it was the venue owner that was like, you know what would be great? We really bring people in during the playoffs is a comedy show of people who are completely unknown, don't even have managers.

[DJ Envy]

Have you ever got booed doing comedy?

[Angela Yee]

Just told you a story about him getting booed.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That was a different type of booed.

[Josh Johnson]

That was like a. She got a chuckle.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, it's kind of like a church crowd. They supported you.

[Josh Johnson]

Yes, yes, yes. It was very kind. It was very kind.

[DJ Envy]

Did you ever get straight up and

[Josh Johnson]

that, like, I've never been, like, the boo level of like. Of like, oh, oh, no, they hate me.

[DJ Envy]

Okay.

[Josh Johnson]

You know what I mean? I've just been in bad situations. What's another bad situation you've been in? I'll actually. Okay, no, I'll tell you. This is maybe my favorite one. What? Okay, so when I was. When I was, like, starting out, there's a club that was on Southside called Jokes and Notes, right? And this was my first ever, like, feature weekend was there. So, you know, you got your host, you got your feature, got your headliner. And so it was my first ever feature weekend. So I was going to be doing like 20, 25 minutes for the. For the first time, and. And getting paid. So I was just like, not only am I, like, over the moon, I'm going over every joke. I'm trying to, like, mix. Mix everything up, have, like, a good rhythm, like, moving through topics and everything. And so the first show, I get up there, and I did really well for the first half of my set. So that first, like, 12 minutes, I was like, had them rolling and everything. But, like, I don't know, I'm weird. You know what I mean? I'm odd. And this is also like a traditionally black club. They expect you to bring like, Bernie Mac level of rhythm and heat. You have to have confidence. You have just know your jokes and everything. There's no, like, let me. What else is going on, you know what I mean? And so second half of the set, I get into some of my weirder stuff. And you could just tell in the room where they were like, we trusted you. What are you doing right now? You can't be. Yeah. Cause it was one of those things where it's like, already they were like kind of rolling with me with some stuff. But then after a while they were like, is he okay?

[Angela Yee]

Give us an example. Give us.

[Josh Johnson]

I don't know. I think I just had a joke about sharks or something. I was just like. Like, it was like, it was. I started doing like shark facts into puns, and they were like, what is he doing about? And then. And then I had saved my. My last bit because I knew it would do really, really well. And so I ended like, okay, you know, but still, it was like there was a clear 10 minute gap of like, sweat stuff. Yeah. I'm just fighting for my life.

[DJ Envy]

Did you change your set the next couple of shows?

[Josh Johnson]

Not only that. Okay, so then I get off, right? I. And the host. This still blows my mind that he did this. It was like. It felt like out of a movie. So the host gets up and he's like, you know what? Forget all y', all, all right? There's a young brother out here doing his best. He got a dream. He's trying to make something of himself and everybody wants. He literally started lecturing the audience. He was like. He was like, everybody want to talk about. I saw him win. They don't want to talk about how they acted. Win. All right, so everybody in here, you know, I want you to give one more round of applause before I bring your headliner up. Cause I'm not even going to bring your headliner up if you over here acting like this and blah, blah, And I'm in the back of the room being like, no, they were right. They were like, correct. Like, you know what I mean? Like, like the laughs aren't wrong. You know what I mean? Like, first half of the set, I was doing so well. Second half of the set, I was like, doing like, okay. And I ended with a good bit, but, like, they were right about me, right? So then I went outside, like, took A deep breath and everything. It was like. It was Honestly the most 8 mile I'd ever been in my career where I was like, oh, oh, Lord, what am I gonna do? And so I mixed up the whole set. I kept the first half that worked. I added some jokes I didn' tell in the second one. And second. Second show, I did genuinely, like, incredibly well. Like, it was like, like everything. It flipped around. I pieced it together in real time a little bit better. Had him rolling the whole time. And then I. I get off stage, I'm like feeling good about myself and everything. The host goes up and he's like, you know what? Forget y'.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All.

[Josh Johnson]

And gave them the same speech. He didn't watch my set at all. Gave him the same speech. Assuming I, like, bombed my second half. And then the audience was even like, I liked him. I don't know. And I'm in the back like, no, no.

[Angela Yee]

That's a great example. If you learn more from failure than, you know.

[Josh Johnson]

No. 100%. 100%.

[Angela Yee]

You know, the thing I like about your comedy, Josh, is it's not like just. It's not set up punchline. It's more observations. Right. Do you see yourself as a comedian or social observer first?

[Josh Johnson]

I would definitely hope that I could be saved the way I see myself, which is like a comic first and everything. I just choose to do things through stories, which I know is a little bit of a longer, winding road to go down, but the idea is that the payoff is always gonna be worth it and that I personally think a lot of stories are more memorable than some one liners rise to the level that they become like a street joke, you know what I mean? Like, some things are so witty and so. And so sharp. There's no fat on the idea at all that it becomes just like ubiquitous with how we talk. And I think a story has the opportunity to do that because I think everyone, no matter who you are, whether you do comedy or not, everybody has in their life two or three wild stories. And they're like the thing that you share with someone so that they don't just know more about you, but they get real insight into your experiences through what you choose to tell them as stories. And so I would like to think that people know me a bit better because I go more of a story route. And I also think that stories end up helping you. When you have that sort of social observation, you can relate it back to something that is a more universal experience versus just coming up with, like a good analogy in the moment that sums up, you know, the Trump administration or something like that. It's like, I can tell you a story about a thing that happened to me when I was little, and it's a thing that's happened to you, maybe, or thing that's happening your friend. And then when I relate it back later to something that's happening on. On a global scale, it makes a little bit more sense of where my perspective might be coming from.

[Angela Yee]

You know, I feel like in this loud Internet era, being subtle like yourself, like, laid back, in a sense, is actually more.

[Josh Johnson]

It's actually rebellious, I guess. I mean, you know, as someone who is very comfortable with things not going well, I think that it's made it to the point where I can post something and just. And give it a shot, you know? Like, I think that at the time where we were out here making posts on TikTok that were like 8 minutes long. Cause I was like, let's post the full story. Like, it just makes sense to post the whole thing, not do part 1, 2, 3, 4. Yeah, it might seem like counterintuitive, but I think for the people that it worked for, it worked well enough where they were like, oh, I'll watch this guy on TikTok for eight minutes at a time versus, like a minute and a half or 30 seconds or whatever. And I also think that when you aren't trying to. It's just like, in interpersonal, like, it's just like in conversation, if you are clearly, as I'm talking to you, trying every moment to be, like, too bitty and, like, get my attention or make me feel some sort of way, I think that it comes off as a little bit. A little bit less authentic, even if that's who you are as a person. I just have friends that are high energy, and they're like that sometimes, and they're like, darty and stuff like that. But I also think that if you can accept that, all right, maybe my personality, maybe my demeanor or my style of sharing stories is only ever gonna garner this much attention in a sort of attention economy, right? I think that you can live a much, like, happier and fulfilled life sharing your stories and sharing your work, as opposed to. We come from a sort of capitalist nature on everything in America. So if you. Even if you have 2 million followers now, you're like, how do I get to 50? And because you're like, now, how do I get to 50? Remember when you had two? So when you had two, eight was amazing. And it's like having those numbers in your head of what you think are like, this is impactful, this is enough. I think once you have enough in that way, and whether you're talking about numbers and posting or following whatever, once you can have enough, that's what makes people dangerous because they're like, okay, everything is gravy now.

[DJ Envy]

You know now you said you like the uncomfortability. What got you into comedy? Cause comedy is. Yeah, it's uncomfortable, but you still gotta get on stage. Was it an awkward thing? Was it you like being going to left? So what got you into doing comedy in the first place?

[Josh Johnson]

I just always really loved comedy and I was. I feel like I come from very funny people. So, you know, my grandma was really funny, My mom and dad are funny and everything. And everyone was funny in different ways. And I just always loved watching comedy when I was growing up, watching specials and everything. And so when I moved to Chicago to start, I was like, let's just. I didn't even know what would come of it. Like I was genuinely very happy working at the grocery store and doing comedy at night. Like I was just chilling. So, you know, the idea that I could do it full time or anything like that kind of still blows me away.

[Angela Yee]

Chicago's a comedy city too.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. For like everything you have. Like you have everything. And what I liked about Chicago, at least while I was there, is there was a small amount enough of industry that that's not what was on people's minds. You know, like, like when you would go up in la, like I remember I just did a couple spots in LA and then there'd be somebody whispering in the green room, like the casting director from Curb is here. I'm like, oh, like now I'm thinking about that. Now I'm like, now you, you can't not put that in your head. Like the presence of these people and how it could impact your career, it just, it, it just puts you in a different space. Whereas in Chicago everybody was trying something different. I saw some of the best shows still to this day that I've ever seen. In some of the weirdest spots in Chicago, like there was just a straight up room that these guys rented. When I was. This is my first year in Chicago, they rented this room that was like upstairs in this. It wasn't like a loft space or anything. And they would just put out folding chairs and they would have all their shows there. And it's not, it wasn't even a space for show. Like even while we were there, whether we were watching a short Play or a standup show or improv, whatever we were watching. I was like, nobody should be here, but they made it just out of pure imagination and having, I'm assuming, a couple hundred extra bucks between all of them to rent out this space for every one of the shows. And I was like, that's what makes it incredible.

[Lauren LaRose]

Yeah. Who was your inspiration growing up? I know you said you watched Stand up growing up.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, you know, I watched. I watch a lot of, like, Bill Burr, Christopher titus, Wanda Sykes, D.L. hughley. I watched a lot of, like. I would also watch people's sitcoms, too, because I feel like, you know, there was. There was an era where Your. Your hour turned into, like, five episodes of your sitcom and everything. So, yeah, I was watching a little bit of everybody. Whoever my mom would let me watch. As long as they didn't curse, my mom would let me watch. And then I would just wait until she fell asleep and then try to sneak back into the living room and turn on Comedy Central again.

[DJ Envy]

You know, I was gonna ask who. What was your big break? Was it at a comedy club and somebody seeing you, like, what was your big break?

[Josh Johnson]

I feel like this is a. It's a very hard thing. Cause it's like. It's so many dots that you connect. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I would say getting the job at the Tonight show changed a lot for me. Like, that was the thing where I was like, oh, okay, I could quit at the grocery store. I didn't right away at today's show and still work.

[Angela Yee]

Tonight Show.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. So I was at tonight's show, but I was like, let me not quit the grocery store.

[DJ Envy]

Just in case.

[Josh Johnson]

Just in case, you know? Cause you might be in the real picture. And they're like, that's the worst joke we've ever heard. You should leave.

[DJ Envy]

So how did you get that job?

[Josh Johnson]

So by the time I did that get a manager in Chicago, he was like, let's submit a tape for you to do standup on Tonight Show. And the head writer at the time liked my tape enough. He happened to see it and liked my tape enough that he was like, maybe you should do a packet. And so then I wrote a packet of jokes and, like, desk pieces, monologue jokes, everything like that, and then sent that in and then didn't hear back for a little while. And I was a little worried. I lost everything. I was like, oh, we were submitting a tape for me to do, like, five minutes on Tonight show, and then they asked for a packet, and now we haven't Heard anything. So they're like, maybe we should fully reconsider. And then I got a. Basically, what is tantamount to a callback where they were like, can he do another packet? And this packet had to be turned around in a day. So it kind of simulates working there. Right. As opposed to the first packet. I think I had like four days or the week or something like that. And so turned around that packet really fast, got brought in for an interview and then got the. The job from there. And so that was one thing. That was my first writing job. It was the first thing that really, I feel like catapulted me into this place of you can be as funny as possible to your friends on the street, in the clubs and everything. But it gave me a little bit more of that industry legitimacy to get other jobs and everything.

[Angela Yee]

So from the Tonight show, you ended up on the Daily Show?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, so I left Tonight show, was hoping to do a pilot that did not get picked up. And then I was just touring for a couple months and then I actually submitted a packet and was trying to be a contributor on the show. The opposition. And because the producers were some of the same producers, when I didn't get the opposition, they were like, you should do a Daily show package. And so I did that as well. And it was another, I think, like, I don't even think that was two rounds. I basically did the packet and sent it in, got it read and everything. They brought me in for an interview and then, yeah, Trevor hired me.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What was the packet? I mean, the packet. What was the pilot that didn't get picked up? Can you say it?

[Josh Johnson]

I'm trying to remember the name of it. I think it was. It wasn't called Broke Travel. It was something. It was basically a show where you would, like, travel on a budget. It was like me and two other comedians and then we would basically do a countdown on. We would start the trip with whatever, like 900 bucks or something like that. And then it would just count down everything that we did. And so it was like a lightly scripted sort of reality show. It was actually, I think like it was supposed to potentially be a Comedy Central show. And yeah, you've never heard of it. So it clearly, clearly did not go.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I was wondering if anybody was pitching you to build your own social commentary show, kind of like Fallon Kimmel, but a younger social media based version of it. If that's something that's ever been on your radar.

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, I guess now more so. But at the time, no, at the time it was still the regular way of doing things. So, you know, you do your Comedy Central like comics to watch. So I'm trying to remember when I got comics to watch, but right after that, did New Faces at JFL and then got the half hour and everything, and then was writing on tonight's show, but then got to do my debut set and everything. So there were a lot of the sort of ladder rungs that I was able to hit. But I think that not only was I lucky, but I think the overall future of any sort of entertainment endeavor is to have not side hustle, but have a real plan for how you're gonna produce and make your own things independently while trying to get some of these jobs, because the jobs are fewer and further between. And so the jobs help because it supplements income and everything. But I think having your own thing, whatever it is that you do, is kind of going to be the future. Like some of these places are never going to go away. They have billions of dollars and they have that sort of like legacy establishment. But I think that for the most part, when you look at a young creative now, you kind of want them to have this, this, this two prong approach of here's the thing that I'm going to be doing while no one is calling me that is going to lead to calls in the future. Here's the thing that I'm going to be doing that I get to display what my skill set is and also work on my skill set in real time with people that are willing to grow. With me. Versus here is just the job. And if you can get one of these jobs, it's amazing and you should definitely go for it. But always having your own thing going on at the same time, I think is the. Is the future of all entertainment.

[Angela Yee]

Hell yeah. You had your podcast, right?

[Josh Johnson]

My podcast. And I also, just when I started putting the standup out on YouTube, I wasn't. I wasn't sure what would happen. I just. Yeah. So I'm very thankful. I mean, I had always written a lot, but I just never put it to. To. To t. Like, I had never committed myself to like the, the daily practice being backed up with a delivery of a, of a, like a product or of any content or anything. So even when I was in Chicago, I would write a lot and I would always be trying something different at the mics. And I think that's what helped me at the jokes and notes shows, because it was like, all right, if I had done my set and half of it did well and half of it bombed. And that's just like, who.

[Angela Yee]

Who.

[Josh Johnson]

What I brought and who I was. Then I don't even know if I would have been asked back to feature because, like, how are you gonna have somebody, like, bomb half the. Half their set? So then, because I wrote so much, I was able to make those adjustments, and I was able to have a better set the next time. And luckily, I was there the whole weekend. So, like, shows two, three, and four went really well.

[Angela Yee]

I think comedians, like you have so much success because y' all do write so much. Cause remember, back in the day, people would take years to build the hour.

[Josh Johnson]

Sure.

[Angela Yee]

But now y' all just writing, writing, taking the content, sharing it on social media. Like, you're not afraid to give up these jokes.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. And it's also the level of access. It's like, you know, back in the day, people had to either, like, buy the, you know, the bootleg at the barbershop, or they had to wait for the thing to come out on some sort of platform. Yeah. Like HBO or something like that. And the thing about pacing is that, you know, I'm blessed that I'm able to have YouTube and a space that I can just upload whenever. Because when you are waiting to be able to share your hour, it can sort of derail plans. Like, you look at Covid. Right. And that derailed a lot of comedians who were set to do that. Like, I was set to do an hour. I actually. My Comedy Central hour is supposed to tape April 4th of 2020. And I was just. Once they closed the NBA, I was like, we probably not going to be the NBA.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, it's one thing I'm doing my special, and that's cool and everything. The NBA is closed, you know, and so having that happen, I still got to tape in 2021. But, you know, if you're going through the model that most comics go through of, like, a sort of hour every year, even that gets stifled by something that's completely out of everybody's control. And then a network, you do have to be sympathetic to the network situation where they can't be on hold or backlog for a whole year. So there's some people that did lose their opportunity because of how long it took to come back around. And then there's people who had to quickly come up with something else, because now the thing that they were gonna do doesn't really fit anymore.

[Lauren LaRose]

Do you still feel like, oh, go ahead with hbo. Right. Like, do you have full creative control, or do they tell you what you can't say, oh, you know, do they try to pick your bits for you or. No, try to take any out when you submit?

[Josh Johnson]

No, no, no. I mean, with hbo, they never really stepped in on the, on the writing side of things or told me what bid or what to cut or anything. I'm also, because I'm fairly clean, like, I don't really curse that much. Like even, I mean, you have to go back to like three or four years ago where I was like cursing at all, really. Like, I don't really swear that much. And so that. Or yeah, I did say swear. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can tell I was hit with a belt. Yeah, no, I don't swear much. And so that already, what are they really gonna tell me to take out? And then also that isn't their way. Like they don't, they don't run up on you and come back to you with a transcript of your set with red lines on it or anything. So I didn't feel in any way that I would be stifled like that. So I just went ahead and did the set that I felt like represented both where I'm at in the moment, the best as possible, but also the most cohesive piece of work that I've done to this point. And so I'm very thankful that I was able to do it with their support. And just the fact that I could take a bit of a step back from thinking about production as much because when you are posting to YouTube and everything, you have to be the one that does the quality control. And it's like, how is the sound? Is everything in focus and stuff like that? And I think with a special, the difference between the topical stuff that I do each week and the special is that I personally think, especially from the specials I watched growing up, that everything should be timeless when it's supposed to be like a snapshot of who you are in that moment. So I look at this thing and I'm like, I really want 20, 30, 40 years from now for people to watch it back and it be just as relevant. So I'm not really making any references to things that are happening now because I do that every week.

[Angela Yee]

You know, you have such an older soul. Right. So with that old to soul, did that draw you to HBO because a young man like you would be on Netflix or something. It's like back in the day, everybody wanted a stand up special on hbo, right?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah,

[Angela Yee]

it just feels like a throwback, you know?

[Josh Johnson]

You know what it is though? I think that HBO has a level of discernment. And they're selective. And they're also able to treat. Because they're selective, they're able to treat each piece of work that they put out like its own very unique thing, whether that's in their limited series or their specials, whether it's in their TV shows or their produced movies. You know that when something's on hbo, it's, like, very curated. It's, like, specifically thought about. And so I think that was the main thing as well, because even before anyone was calling me, like, once again, like, no manager, no nothing, I really wanted to be doing things with HBO because it meant something to me. Even before Netflix popped up with, like, we're gonna do a special a week. You know, whatever. I was like, the things that I see on HBO are like, instant classics premium. Yes, yes. Yeah. And I think that there's definitely something to be said for the opportunities it gives comedians, that there are some streamers out there willing to just, like, pump, pump, pump, pump. But then they also, as a streamer, it then becomes on you when everybody's getting those opportunities, it then becomes on you to push as much as possible and get your name out there, even though you're already on the thing that's supposed to get your name out there. Whereas I think with hbo, them being selective and very intentionally curating for a year, the things that they're gonna put out. If I have four or six really important things to tell you in the span of a week, right? Like, let's just say we're having conversations every day, and there's like, I need you to pay attention to these four things, these pillars. That's gonna stick with you way more than, like, I have 50 things to tell you. It's like, now they could be 50 really important things, but are you gonna remember them all?

[Angela Yee]

That's real. And the other thing, I saw a promo for your special somewhere, and I don't even remember where. There. That's how I thought. I just know I saw Josh Johnson Symphony, Symphony Special coming on hbo. I don't know. Maybe I was watching this. I don't know where I saw. But I know I saw a promo for it.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. No, so I'm very. I'm very thankful that they are as invested as I am in the. In the overall project. And I'm just trying to make sure that every time I do a special, it feels really different. So then that way, not. Not just that people keep coming back, but also that. That you're pushing yourself creatively, you know, I Think that sometimes, hour to hour, especially as you get into that fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth hour of a. Of a comic. I don't know how you feel. I'm interested how you feel about it. But it's like once you get to that established place and you're able to say you're putting out your sixth hour with whoever. I feel like sometimes that's when the quality. There's almost this like. Like, I don't know if you would call it like a Jay Z effect. But it's just like you're so established that now people are like, well, of course their thing is gonna be on this streamer. It's gonna be good. But there's not a different quality to it to where you're like, what makes this one better than the last one?

[Angela Yee]

That's such rare air, though. Who the hell got six specials?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, like, like very rare air.

[Angela Yee]

Six.

[Lauren LaRose]

Mike Epps.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah, I don't think Michael on six yet.

[Josh Johnson]

I think. I think he is.

[Angela Yee]

Think about how long his career had been to get.

[Josh Johnson]

No, no, that's fair. That's. But that's. But that's kind of what I mean. It's like once you. Once you get to that, to that place, it's like, yeah. What is. What is going to be the next thing that shows us that you're pushing it? And. And I don't know, like, I'm not even talking about one person in particular, but just when you watch after a while, it's like, yeah, sometimes you're like, they got their bag. But I don't know what makes this one feel different than the other ones.

[Lauren LaRose]

Yeah, because I feel like a special is always supposed to be special. Like, it is different. You have to make it different from the last one and somehow top the success of the last one. Right. But like you said, which makes. Now I like a comic who I feel like keeps up with that all the time. Ali Siddiq, he, like, he kills it in his. It seems like it gets better and better, like. Cause he's also a storyteller and it's from his personal experience. And also Mike Epps, he's more so. Like, he tells stories, but he's like. He's the dopest one liner I know. Like, so every. I feel like every one of Mike Epps specials get better all the time.

[Angela Yee]

I like Chris Rock, Chappelle's Air. The reason I say that is because I think Chris is on like six or seven Women. But it's an event, you know,

[Josh Johnson]

that's exactly what I Mean. And, like, one of the things, you know, I gotta say about Ali real quick, one of the things that's wild about Ali is that he'll tell such a good story that someone will watch something he put out before I did. Tell me the story. Which should ruin it, right? They'll tell me the story, but then they will tell me the story, and I'm getting it through their filter, which means not even being told as well. And I'm still like. Like, oh, what? You know, I mean, like. Like, I'm still having that. That reaction. And it's like that. That's proof that you've curated a thing so well, that even in, like, the describing of it, people are like, oh, geez. Yeah, geez. When you know.

[Lauren LaRose]

And then it makes you want to go and watch.

[Josh Johnson]

Go and watch. Yeah, Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

I wanted to know, I was asking before, when you write for somebody, is it difficult because you actually have to understand who they are as a person? Like, let's say you're writing for Charlotte or you're writing for Travis Scott, or you're writing for whoever it may be.

[Angela Yee]

Why the hell would you be writing for Travis Scott? I was gonna say.

[Lauren LaRose]

Damn, I thought you was gonna say Jess.

[Angela Yee]

Say Jess. So you write raps too?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, I thought Emmy knew something.

[Josh Johnson]

We did.

[DJ Envy]

No, no. You're writing for somebody. How difficult is it? And do you have to put yourself in their body or do you have to study them?

[Josh Johnson]

Wouldn't that be great if I was a ghostwriter for Travis Scott? And then everyone was realizing it right now, where I was like, what are you doing? Oh, there's no money in comedy. You've ruined. Oh, no, you're gonna get me killed. No. So basically what I think some of it is is having the ability through. You know, we are very blessed now that we can basically watch most of what we can even imagine on playback, on demand. Right? And so if you are gonna be writing for someone, like, you know, that was something that happened with the Daily show when we had the guest host year. And so, like, Char would come or Wanda Sykes would come or, you know, like, these people that I'm like, oh, this is like someone that your whole trajectory of a career would have had to go differently to write for. And now we're getting to write for these people within a week's time of each other just from what the show is doing. Right? And so it can be difficult. But I think that the main thing is that there's a sort of. There's a way that someone tells you without telling you what type of jokes they like. And it's usually through like the humor that they've already put out. So if I'm watching you and I'm watching how not just you speak here, but just like, even in standup and stuff like that, I'm like, okay, I've written enough jokes now where I'm like, this joke feels like it would go with something that you would already say, you know, and then likewise, it's like, like sometimes you could be writing something and even though it's funny, it's very funny. It's something you would never say. Like, it just, it doesn't have your, your rhythm to it. There's like a music to how people speak. And sometimes you can write something that on its face is amazing. And I think that's also where it's really important. And one of the things that being at Tonight show and Daily show have really taught me is to let go of the sort of like, ego around what you produce, because it's not always about whether or not the thing is good. Sometimes it's about if the thing fits, you know? And so I think sometimes people stifle their careers a bit, not just in writing, but in anything by being like, this is so dope. Why doesn't everybody see it? And it's like it's not even about it being.

[DJ Envy]

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[Josh Johnson]

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[Timbo]

Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the Internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody, nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source. The athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight reel. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports slice on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice Life 12 and the TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

[Josh Johnson]

Who says renting can't feel like home? Make your rental feel like yours. It all starts with one scroll. Download TikTok to discover easy home decor ideas. Is. Dope. It is. You're right. Like that. That's the craziest thing. It's like there are so many creatives out there that I can look at about any work that maybe filmmaker. You're. You're. You're a rapper, you're a producer, whatever. I'm like, you are right. This thing is dope. You're not wrong. And don't let go of that thing. That is. That is dope. But does it fit right now? If you are writing for Travis Scott and you're like, I think you should do country this album, and he's like, no, you could write the best country song of all time. But if Travis doesn't want it, he doesn't want it. And I think that being able to step aside of your ego makes it really easy to write for people, because then you don't see every rejection of a joke. You know, when you were at Daily show, there's probably plenty of things that you're like. I don't think I would say it like this.

[Angela Yee]

Nah, that's not me.

[Josh Johnson]

But that even that's not me isn't a dig on the joke or the writer or the creative or anything. There's a thing that I learned in college when I was going through my program, they basically made you take a bunch of elective classes within your major that were things you were never gonna do, right? Because some of it is because it's good to get experience in a little bit of everything, and some of it is because the college wants more of your money. And one of the things that we did there was a class that we had where. Where we had to direct a young person. And our professor was telling us that when you're a little kid, and this happens a lot with child actors, stuff like that, when you're a little kid, because you are so new to everything, you cannot distinguish me being bad at this thing and me being a bad person. So that's why little kids on every level, not just child actors, every level, take criticism so deeply because they're still establishing how to make a distance between themselves and whatever it is they're doing. I can go out, and if I have a bad set or if I put out a set and people aren't vibing with it or whatever, I still even believe myself to be a great comedian. I just need to do better, right? And that even takes a step away, but that's still not as close as. Like, some people never leave that stage. And so to even criticize their work at all, it's like you're calling them a bad person because you didn't like a joke or you didn't like a piece that they put out. And nothing could be further from the truth. Like, you're you, literally. That's just. That's not me. Let's make an adjustment, you know?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How did you get to that point, though, with, like, the Daily Show? Because I saw your interview with Colbert when you were talking about just, like, the pressures of it, because it's already this big legacy show. And, I mean, you're the newcomer, right? You're the new kid. How do you get to that point on that stage, then? Cause that's a different level of, like, everything.

[Josh Johnson]

I think that for the most part, you just have to be accepting of a few realities, right? The same way that when you look at people on stage and some people are like, I could never do that, because they have a fear of, like, public speaking or something. And so some people are like, oh, I really like writing comedy, or I really love comedy, but I don't know if I could ever do it. And the thing I always tell them in those instances is that if you go up, people want to see a good show, so everyone's already kind of rooting for you. And I think that's an important thing to remember, because I think one of the reasons people have A fear of public speaking is that they have that fear of being booed or they have that fear of being looked at as like, well, you should just never do this again. Right. That would be harrowing. You know, and I think that behind the desk I have to accept some facts, which is that I have the support of everybody there. I see it not just in, not just in the words that people say, but I also see it in how hard everyone works. Like while I'm hosting, everyone's putting their best foot forward, everyone is trying to help me succeed. The audience is also excited to be there, they're excited for the show, some of them are excited to see me. And I just have to take in that some of the pressure that I might feel is a bit manufactured because of what could possibly go wrong. But those things, not only are they not happening right now, the likelihood that they're even going to happen would only be a result of me living in my own fear. And so I think that that pressure sort of melts away when you actually start doing the thing. And that, that's something that luckily I was able to adjust to pretty quickly. But it is, it is a. I think because of the responsibility that is. It is an enormous weight. But it's not a weight that you carry like heavy on you. It's just a. It's like if somebody hands you something heavy and you were like, oh, well, this is substantial.

[Angela Yee]

You know, let's stay there for a second. Right. Because you're great behind the desk. And you spoke about ego when you're a writer, but you're also great as a talent. How do you check your ego when it comes to writing for people? You know, you're better than as a host.

[Lauren LaRose]

Damn.

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, wow. I just don't. I think that everything happens in its time. Like. And I know, I know I'm. I'm probably able to look back with some sort of rose tinted glasses because a lot of things worked out for me. But I think that sometimes when you feel like that hungry, you know, every once in a while you'll see someone who's like that sort of hungry young lion. You see this in fighting a lot where they want their title shot just cause they won their first fight. And it's like, look, you're hot right now and you're probably never gonna be better physically, but you don't have the experience yet to go out and knock out a champ. And so now you could set yourself up in your own belief. Like, you have to balance this level of belief. With what could possibly be delusion. And I think that having belief and having experience means you're not going to be delusional. And so sometimes taking that back seat once in a while and learning from someone, even if. Even if your ego tells you you're better than this person, or you could be doing this thing better, whatever, you're not in that position right now for a reason. And the reason is either decisions that you've made up until this point, or things are out of your control. And so I think that, to me, like, ego isn't even always the enemy. It's literally just like your thoughts in your head about how you feel about life as it is right now. But I think that sometimes it causes us to be less curious than is necessary. And so you should always ask yourself, like, why? If I think I should be in this position, why am I not in this position? Is it something that I did, or is it something that didn't happen yet? Is it something that I'm setting myself up for in the future?

[Angela Yee]

Should I be learning now?

[Josh Johnson]

Should I be learning now Because. Because once again, you'll be thinking you're better than somebody, and then you'll actually get in their position and you'll be like, oh, this is. This is really hard. Yeah. I don't know if you ever watch Wipeout. Everybody thinks that they could do Wipeout. No, no, no. It's like obstacle course thing. The obstacle course. Or like Ninja Warrior. Like, when you watch Ninja Warrior, the per. The next person thinks they could do it.

[DJ Envy]

I mean, me watching at home think

[Josh Johnson]

I can do it. Yeah. It's like you just watch somebody grab a ring in the air and try to connect it to another r. And you're over here on the couch, like, just.

[Angela Yee]

Just kick it off.

[Josh Johnson]

Come on. Why can't you just, you know, I mean, it's right there.

[DJ Envy]

Right, right.

[Josh Johnson]

And it's like you're not there in that moment. You don't know what that experience is like. And you don't know people's arms get tired, you know? And so I think that the. The way I was able to really be patient and not have an ego about that sort of thing is that everyone is your. Your teacher. You're always learning from people, whether you want to or not, whether they're a good teacher at home.

[DJ Envy]

Not.

[Josh Johnson]

Some people teach you incredible lessons, and they're horrible people. You know what I mean? Like. Like every once in a while, you'll look back and you'll be like, oh, I really needed that thing. To happen. They still suck. Don't get me wrong. That's. They were terrible. But also, if I didn't have that experience, I wouldn't know how to make those adjustments. You know, you.

[Angela Yee]

You also have.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You.

[Angela Yee]

You are in an era right now where people want comedians to be funny and politically aware. Right. Especially because you on the Daily Show. Do you think comedy has become the new journalism for a lot of people?

[Josh Johnson]

No, I think. I think maybe some people digest it that way, but I think that that's actually to everyone's detriment a little bit. I always make the point to tell people that I am a fake journalist. You know, like. Like every once in a while, somebody will come to Daily Show. They might even ask the question, like, what made you want to get a journalism? I was like, oh, I'm not. Oh, I have terrible news for you. I'm not in journalism at all. We're doing a comedy show. But I think that there's a couple things happening. One is that the news is more, like, divisive and depressing than it's ever been. Right. Because even if you have, no one really does news like us, because we do our news like entertainment. If anything, I think it will be important the next time you have a journalist on to ask them what made them want to get into entertainment, because that is kind of how a lot of it's being digested. Where the journalists now are doing opinion the entire time. Like, the whole time, like, tell me what happened?

[Angela Yee]

And they still been doing journalism.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. And so. And then you see comedians who are kind of doing a little bit of what we always done, which is just talk about everything. But now, because the news is so depressing, or people don't know how to feel about what just happened, like. Like, then they look to comedians because it's a. More. It just goes down a little easier with some jokes. That being said, I think it's really important to keep reading. I think it's really important to have multiple sources that you take your news in from so you're not just, like, locked into one specific opinion about something. Because all of legacy media, doesn't matter what you watch, has some ties to money. That's how they've been able to stay open. And so you'll find that, like, you. You could be watching what you feel like is the most reputable news source. And then you'll see an anchor ask a guest something like, well, don't billionaires have a right to exist? And you're like, where did this come from? What Are you talking about? You know what I mean? And it's like. And. But that's because at the end of the day, this company is owned by this company that's owned by this company that's owned by billionaires.

[Angela Yee]

Billionaire.

[Josh Johnson]

And so, no, no matter how hands off you try to be, or no matter how much as a billionaire you love independent journalism or whatever, eventually that messaging is going to creep through. We've already seen where Jeff Bezos has basically said, hey, you're gonna run like this. And he said that out loud for everybody to see. If you read it, you're gonna run like this. And so I'm not saying that makes that news source, like, completely irrelevant for all time, but it does paint a picture. Because now if I keep in my head that Jeff Bezos said, you're gonna run like this, then no matter what story they put out, I'm like, this is a Jeff Bezos approved news story. What does that mean? In my mind, right? And so I think that using comedians as journalism can be really dangerous because journalism is something that you need professionalism about and you need. You do need a degree in as well, because I think in the pursuit of that degree, you learn all the best practices. All those best practices are there for a reason. And so as a comedian, you're not checking sources. You're not, like, you're trying to make people laugh. And so I don't think comedians should even see themselves in that light, you know?

[Angela Yee]

So you. You do worry about audiences confusing comedy with actual political understanding.

[Josh Johnson]

Yes, because I think I. I can come to an understanding off of something I learned. And I try to be as well researched as I can for my set, but that's my choice. That's like a thing that I've decided to do. That's not something that everyone is doing. And that's not even something that comedians who also cover topical stuff, that's not even something I tell them to do. I don't. I don't run up to people, be like, why. Why didn't you cite six sources? You know, I mean, like, that. That. First of all, who am I to tell you that?

[Angela Yee]

And then.

[Josh Johnson]

And then, second, it's like, that's not. That's not their. Their intent. Their intent is to be funny. And so I think that some comedians are. Some. Some comedians are playing a dangerous game where they are trying to get into a sort of, like, journalism that they honestly won't be able to get out of. Because once people come to you for those things, you can't now back up and be like, y', all, I'm just joking. And we were just playing jokes. Like, if you step into journalism and that's how people see you. It's the same way with a journalist. Imagine now a journalist gets on stage in front of 5,000 people and bombs, and they're like, y', all, I'm just a journalist. It's like bombing his parents. Well, no, you showed up to be a comedian, so now you have to do comedy. And so if you're a comedian trying to do journalism, you have to really do it. And so I always try to make that correction of, like. Even when people tell me, like, you're my news, I'm like, oh, you should still watch the news. You should please still be reading. Like, I'm. Cause, one, I'm not gonna cover everything. Two, I'm not gonna be right about everything. So you have to discern for yourself. Like, I'm glad people find me entertaining. I'm glad that people. People want to engage with the things that I think are important. Like this. This last set that I did on Spirit, it's like, people. People are sleeping on how big of a deal this is. Like, Spirit closed.

[Lauren LaRose]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Do you.

[Angela Yee]

I mean, it deserved to die. They wouldn't deserve to lose their job. Tell them how much money they've owed me. 72. For a long time.

[Lauren LaRose]

72. They deserve to die.

[Josh Johnson]

72. Look, this is what I'm saying. This is all I'm saying, right, Is that. That the thing did not happen in a vacuum. We are in a war that we don't understand why we're in. We're clearly in it illegally. It's raising the cost of fuel. This company was already on thin margin, and I don't remember who it was, but I think it was Delta that. And this is also why I'm not a journalist. You see, I don't even know, but I'm pretty sure it was Delta that canceled as many, if not more flights the same day that Spirit closed. And that got buried as a story because Spirit closed. No, I did see they were trending

[Charlamagne Tha God]

across Google that day. Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And so I'm like. I'm like, all right, clearly something bigger than Spirit is going. This isn't just business practices.

[Lauren LaRose]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

Something is happening with fuel, which is important for flying. You would like to fly with enough fuel, of course. You know, and so I think that. Yeah, I choose this topic one because I think it could be really funny. It gives me an opportunity to tell all of my Spirit stories that I have from my, my times, like flying on spirit. But also I think that this is going to end up being something that's really important for the, for the future. And we're going to look back on this. We're going to look back on this time for something that we get charged in the future that we are not charged for now. Or something we used to get. Because you saw Delta be like, no more pretzels. We can't, we can't. Look, if the flight is, if the flight is less than two hours, we can't be handed out water anymore. You know what, whatever.

[DJ Envy]

The things, they just give you water.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

They poured out a long. They don't even give you the bottles.

[Lauren LaRose]

Even orange juice or water. That's it.

[Josh Johnson]

And so, and then, so 10 years from now, because the prices never go down and the, and the companies never make adjustments for the customer. They're like, hey, we're just going to do this new thing to be nice. Right? So then 10 years from now, now when you're on a United flight and the, and the flight attendant walks by with the bottle of water and they're like, open your mouth. We're gonna look back at this time,

[Charlamagne Tha God]

not drive a boat.

[Josh Johnson]

You know what I mean? Yeah. Just like, hey, hey. You know what I mean? That'll be how they wake you up to adjust your seat. Because they love waking you up to adjust your seat. They're like, we landed in 20 minutes. I don't know why you

[Charlamagne Tha God]

gotta, you gotta put your seat up because it.

[Lauren LaRose]

Oh yeah, she used to take off

[Charlamagne Tha God]

for the most dangerous times. And if your seat is back, it's harder for you to get up and get out into people behind you.

[Josh Johnson]

I'm fully with you. But 30 minutes.

[Lauren LaRose]

Yeah, that's.

[Josh Johnson]

That. That's where I'm like, give me five minutes before.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, well, it'll take five minutes to put your seat up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But, but once you. On dissension, like it all counts. Like, once you're coming down, anything can happen in that time. You got to be ready to figure it out.

[Josh Johnson]

That's fair. That's fair.

[Lauren LaRose]

They don't go back that damn far to be trying to have to figure out what's happening.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's the same reason why they, they actually take your bag off your lap, even if your purse is small, you to get rid of that. But it's because if something happened, they just want you to be able to

[Lauren LaRose]

like, I don't think there's anybody.

[Angela Yee]

I'm going leave my pocketbook there.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I would probably do it, but it, it depends on what's happening. You're not thinking about that. If you're really in an emergency landing, you're not thinking about your purse.

[Lauren LaRose]

And then there's also 50 people on the plane. You know what I'm saying? 50 plus people. So I get what you're saying, but

[Charlamagne Tha God]

they just want it all clear, like all roads clear so you can safely figure out what you got to do.

[Josh Johnson]

No, for sure. I'm. I'm not even saying that it's bad. It just felt like 30 minutes because now you sleeping. You gotta put your leg. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm like, okay. And it also depends on how the flight attendant wakes you up every once in a while. I have a flight attendant just softly. Yep, we're landing soon. Can you put your seat up? You know what I mean?

[Lauren LaRose]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And then every once in a while you get somebody that's like, excuse me, sir, seat up, seat up, seat up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because you never got even go back.

[Josh Johnson]

No, they go back. So, so the spirit seat. No, no spirit seat. I'll show you right now. Okay. Cuz I flew spirit a decent amount. It took my career a while.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So show us that.

[Josh Johnson]

That's about it. Yeah, that's it. No, no, it was a, it was a. I remember cuz Spirit was my first flight and so I remember getting in a spirit seat and then going to put.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because it got.

[Josh Johnson]

It has the button. You would think a button would do something. So I would press the button. I'd be like, that's it.

[Angela Yee]

That is it.

[Josh Johnson]

Like I'd be struggling. I actually there was one time I thought my seat was broken, so I pressed the button and then put my foot on the seat ahead of me to push back because I was like, oh, it just has to break through. So it's stuck. And no, it was not. It goes back two centimeters.

[Angela Yee]

And now you know why they had to close. I mean, I wanna, I wanna. Before we leave, I wanna. I don't know if you heard these comments from Chappelle. When he was on Michelle Obama's podcast, he was talking about young comics. Okay, let's play this.

[Lauren LaRose]

Younger comedians are a little bit different because their audience isn't in their room.

[Angela Yee]

No, they're Internet people.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They're Internet people. You know, it's like sharing a space with people is really important to connection and understanding.

[Josh Johnson]

And it's no wonder.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Why we feel so divided is because all of our interaction is happening without this heart to heart feeling.

[Lauren LaRose]

We're losing that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And you said young Comedians nowadays have

[Lauren LaRose]

a different ethos because a lot of

[Angela Yee]

them are negative too.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, because it gets more engagement. If they talk bad about somebody, they'll get, they'll get more clicks or more engagement.

[Angela Yee]

So everything's a diss record now.

[Josh Johnson]

And it used to be.

[Angela Yee]

It's not like the reason I wanted to ask you, because when I listen to you, I hear you talk about difficult topics with empathy instead of dunking on people. So, so is compassion underrated in comedy right now?

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, I think so. I, I, I hear what Chappelle is saying because it, you know, that that's how all the, the algorithms work. You know, what, what keeps people on. Does it keep people on to talk about how great somebody is, or does it keep people on to be like, you know what else they did? Like, that's, I mean, and it's also, some of it is the algorithms, and some of it's human nature. It's like you remember the person who bumped into you in the morning and didn't say anything. You might not remember the five people who held the door open for you. And so I think that the Internet, while some of these tools and little tricks that they use to keep us on and keep us engaged, there's still a shade of us in there. Like, we can't just pass it all off onto all the platforms. Cause we also gravitate a little bit towards negativity ourselves sometimes. And it can be the fastest way, like, to. What Chappelle's saying about a diss record. It's like you look at some people's careers and the person that they dissed that was bigger than them, that they then beat in that battle, it's like, yeah, you took their spot a little bit, and then you, you took it to the stratosphere, maybe. But, like, that's, that's, I'm. You, you look at the, you look at the sort of younger days of, of battle rap and of hip hop. And the whole thing was, I deserve to be on stage. Not just because I'm great, but because I'm better than you. The person who's currently on stage right now, I'm now gonna prove that, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna completely strip you down barefoot and expose that I am better than you. And then I get your spot, and then someone comes and tries to take mine, and then I just gotta do the same thing. Right? And so there's a level of that when you apply it to any competition. And because now we are in a sort of attention economy, And a competition for attention, you're gonna see a lot of that stuff. And so I think that having some. Having some empathy, and not always. I think sometimes people mistake, like, empathy with agreement. I can understand how someone got to where they are, even if I despise them as a person. I think when you're empathetic, people forget that you also might feel the same way about them. You know what I mean? You might feel the same way about someone that they feel, but it's like you can completely despise everything about Trump. But I think understanding how he got the way he got also gives you the tools to combat him more effectively. You know what I mean? If you just throw your hands up at everybody who is evil and go, they're the devil, it's like that, look, that's true. That's fine. That makes sense. But also, how do you dismantle a devil? And I think understanding that and showing some empathy towards that doesn't mean you agree with anything. You're just like, no, I see you and the person. To me, one of the good things about empathy is I think it actually makes you scarier to the opposition sometimes because you really see them. You know, like, I understand you. And if I understand you, I get you a little bit deeper than these people who are either just scared of you or these people who are just. Just gonna rail against you all day and, like, you know, call you out your name and be right. I'm not. Like, once again, when people don't have the. The specific type of empathy that I have, and they are reactionary or they're reacting to what's happening right now, I'm fully with it. Like, I'm never gonna tell anybody else how to. To act like me or how to act in a situation. But you look at Clarence Thomas and it's like, I see you. I see you, dude. You're you. You are an affirmative action hire. You're affirmative action into your law school and everything. And now you're trying to pull up the ladder behind you. Cause you think. Think that in. In your circle and with your friends, it'll make up for the fact that you're black, Right? You know what I mean? I see you. And so I can have empathy for someone who, like, I was at a Catholic school. I was one of few. I was. I was one of few black kids. And everybody is gonna have a need as an adolescent to fit in, right? So were there some things that I did to fit in that I shouldn't have done? Looking back and it's like. And you can have some compassion for yourself because you're 12, 14, whatever. But then when I look at my experience and then I see Clarence Thomas, I'm like, oh, I see you. Because I could. Because I could have gone down this route if I really, like, stayed within this sort of like self hate or if I really stay within this. I owe these people something because they took me in and they're just so gracious to do it because of. Look, because look at me, right? And so if I, if I understand you, then I can address you more effectively.

[Lauren LaRose]

But what if you don't understand?

[Josh Johnson]

Sometimes I don't understand. And I try to be honest about that too. Sometimes I don't act like. One of the reasons I think we're in the position that we're in right now is because a lot of people, whether they're on the progressive side of things, they're leftist, they're liberal, they're conservative, they're straight up Nazis, whatever. Everybody's trying to be the Trump whisper. And I'm not like, I'm just like, for each thing that he does, I have a different assessment of it. And so whether I'm on the show or I'm doing standup or whatever, sometimes I'm like, y', all, this is crackhead behavior.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I've seen.

[Josh Johnson]

No. Cause I grew up around. No, I've seen this before. This because now to be like, we win in the war, but that's why we gotta keep fight. That's how crackheads fight. That's the crazy thing. It's like, I already beat you, which is why I also need to call two of my friends to come help me get up off the ground, right? And. And I think that that's something that if I'm honest. Honest about too. That also might be what sometimes people mistake for journalism, where it's like, I try to be honest about what I do and don't know in real time what I think in real time. And I think one of the reasons people are gravitating towards independent creators of any sort of content is because we usually, unless we're like, sort of blinded by money, are not beholden to the interests that would make up us say something or act like we believe something that we don't. You know, if I'm, if I am an anchor for Fox News, there's a certain line I gotta tell, right? Like there just is. Like we, we kind of all know it and see it when we see it, right? But if, but if you are online and you might even have some aligning opinions to Fox News. You seem a little bit more free because no one can find your tethers. And it's not until, like, what's her name? Ashley St. Clair, or whoever got up on Twitter and was exposing everybody being like, they get their. All these people you think are independent get their talking points directly from the White House, and they're getting paid directly by billionaires to act like they're independent. And so I think that that's one. Also, just to reiterate, because I cannot stress this enough, the danger of treating independent creators who just have a camera in front of them. Them or bought a microphone from Best Buy as journalists, because then you look at your Nick Shirley's and you're like, this guy can't read. He can't. Like, like, sometimes people. And. And look, I get it. Like, I. I can't imagine if you're in the Somali or Haitian community. I can't imagine if this dude rolls up on you with a camera, he's got all these followers, and he's streaming you right now and stuff. Like, I can't imagine what that's like in real time. Right. But also when you just give this dude you some. Some space, which I'm not saying he should be given a platform in any way. I'm just saying when you listen to him talk by the people who invite him to talk, and he starts talking, his talking sounds like not reading. This dude went up there. Y'. All. Y' all got it. I don't know if it's cpac. Where was he at?

[Angela Yee]

It was still some good investigative journalism,

[Josh Johnson]

though, on Nick Shirley's part.

[Angela Yee]

That's the guy that exposed everything in Minnesota, right?

[Josh Johnson]

I don't. I wouldn't say he exposed everything.

[Angela Yee]

I mean, he did. Then he exposed the whole Minnesota. This is the case, or am I making some confusing people?

[Josh Johnson]

No, no, no, because I think. I think you might. The fact that in. In Minnesota, the stuff that he was talking about was already being investigated.

[Angela Yee]

So he just amplified.

[Josh Johnson]

He just amplified it. And he also incorrectly amplified it because this dude, because he's not a journalist, doesn't know, like, protocols, doesn't know what to do. So then this dude also just shows up at a daycare, and it's like, let me in with a camera. It's like. They were like, no. And they're like, well, you must be doing fraud. It's like, no, you are a grown man with a camera that wants to come in. Yeah. No, that's crazy.

[Angela Yee]

And so that's an interesting one though, because if there was, there clearly was something going on there that was wrong. Now, I don't know who hipped him to it or why he did what he did, but what if he heard about it just being in Minnesota and decided to be vigilante?

[Josh Johnson]

I think, I think you, once again, this is like where journalism comes into play. And like, do you cite your sources? Do you get background on people? Do you, do you ask the right questions so that you're not, when you, when you are an independent creator and you're just over here trying to get clicks, you're trying to get clicks. So you ask questions that are going to lead to clicks. You're not necessarily asking questions that get down to the truth of the matter.

[Angela Yee]

He didn't do any investigation.

[Josh Johnson]

I don't think he did any investigation. And I also think that, like, he knows what he's doing. Even as someone who seems very dumb, he also knows what he's doing. Like a, like a dumb bully can also be smart about bullying. Some people just have a talent for certain things, right? And so when I look at Nick Shirley, I'm like, whether he is right about the next story, he engages or not. It's how he goes about it and it's also who he does it to. Because it's not. Journalism is supposed to be journalism across the board. If your journalism is only finding where the fraud is in any brown or black skinned community so that you can perpetuate. Yeah, so you can perpetuate a narrative that all black and brown people are scamming scammers. It's like now it doesn't even. To me, it doesn't even matter as much if you keep finding the thing. Because once again, you look at crack versus cocaine, right? And if we as a country really cared about people doing illicit drugs, why didn't we raid clubs? Why didn't we raid Studio 54? Why don't we raid people on Wall Street? Why don't we raid. We know to keep going to the places where the crack is, never where the cocaine is. Right? And that's the sort of like classic Nick Shirley. That's Nick Shirley before Nick Shirley. That's. That's a dude out here. All right? I, I see these people as villains. So it doesn't even matter that right behind Nick Shirley in a suburban community, you might have all the white collar fraud that you could, that you could make content out of for 10 years. We're not gonna cover that because that's my neighbor. He's not a criminal. It's these people over here that I gotta drive to that are different than me. That must be the criminals.

[Angela Yee]

So you think intention matters in that situation?

[Josh Johnson]

No. I don't even know if intention matters as much as understanding the impact of a story. And also, like, what are you. I look at how sometimes legacy media will cover one story for two weeks and I'm like, there's more going on in the world that, like, one thing Trump has kind of exposed a bit is that you can cover a thing for 36 hours.

[Angela Yee]

Absolutely.

[Josh Johnson]

You can actually get to a bunch of different things. I feel like before Trump, sometimes the news would stay on a story for like a week and not even really have anything new to say. But there's so much that's going on in the rest of the world they don't wanna talk about. But there's clearly room to talk about. There's room to do major news of what's happening in the US and talk about Sudan. There's room to do major news in the US and talk about what's happening on college campuses and stuff like that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But isn't a lot of that driven by the metrics? Right. Cause I think about a website like a dot com. I used to work@a dot com team Z. We had a board in the morning when you would come, come in. So you knew all your big top 10 stories that were like, picking up huge. Those were the stories you drilled in on the most for the rest of that week, sometimes two weeks. But it was because the numbers were there and that's what people wanted to hear, regardless of what else was happening in the world. And I feel like TV is the same way, like where producers are coming in and being like, there's all this great stuff happening, but, like, the masses are clinging to this and they're going to be searching this.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I, I feel like that. I always struggle with that stuff because I feel like maybe I can let an indie website get away with that, sort of like what the top 10 thing is. But honestly, if you're a network backed by a billionaire, you got some extra cushioning to cover the things that you think are important, because they always do end up covering the things that the billionaire thinks are important. There are narratives and there are stories out there that I feel like people aren't thinking about as much, but then they get a lot of coverage and it's because of the interest of who owns the company. And so I feel like they, they, they, they play cute and fast and loose with that logic. Yeah, you know, like I'm, I'm not saying that's not true. That's absolutely, I agree with what you're saying. That's absolutely true. That, hey, if we want to be the number one news network we got, we got to make sure that 90% of the time we're covering top 10 of what is trending. But how is it, how is the thing trending as well? Well, sometimes things are trending through genuine organic interest of a narrative or just of, of a story. And then sometimes things are like being peddled. You know, I get mad at the

[Angela Yee]

news because I feel like they could be creating the trending topics because there's so many things that we could be discussing.

[Josh Johnson]

But that's exactly what I'm saying.

[Angela Yee]

Discussing that we're not.

[Josh Johnson]

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. It's like if you are, if you are the news, we look to you to see what happened.

[Angela Yee]

That's right.

[Josh Johnson]

How are we gonna tell you what happened that we wanna see? Cause we don't know. Something that's trending online. You, you look at things that aren't even true and then they get, they get so much airplay and then there's no time to do a whole retraction story.

[DJ Envy]

We're just like, oh, it's a small little thing, but the damage is already done.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do enough to legally be cool.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. And so I feel like, like there are, there are standards for, for journalists and there are standards for comedians and they are two very different things. And it always like, I'm not going to be melodramatic about it and say it breaks my heart, but it always makes my stomach drop a little bit when I see like a major news networks anchor doing like a front facing video. TikTok style in a way where I'm like, like not y' all are. No, because two things are happening when you do that. One, you, you make it harder to discern you from like just someone on TikTok. Right. Because y' all are the news. If you're gonna be legacy media, like have some prestige about it, you know, I understand that's how the people are digesting stuff and I understand you're trying to meet the people where they are, stuff like that. But you don't have to meet everybody where they. Your college professor does not necessarily have to meet you where you are. You applied, you got into college, there was an application process and you're here now and you're paying for your professor to teach you something. If by the End of class. You're like, well, this is everything everybody says at the barbershop anyway. It's like, what are you spending the money on? What degree are you really getting?

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, but you also gotta, you know, we always say, meet people where they are, right? And perfect example. My daughter's 12, right? She knows damn near more about Michael Jackson than probably all of us in this room, right? And I lived through it. Charlamagne lived through it. You lived through it. But the problem is, is she has these small things that give her a little bit of information, and she feigns that little bit of information. Cause it's not a long hour. It's not an hour class.

[Josh Johnson]

It's not an hour course.

[DJ Envy]

It's just like seven, eight minutes. She gets the information and it makes her excited. But now she gets it from, you might be Janet Jackson's sister. Then he gets it from you, which might be Janet Jackson's father. Then he gets you from you, which is a Janet, Michael Jackson historian. And she gets all this information for her. I think in these days, these kids learn better that way. Yeah, I've watched kids listen to stuff on Positive two, like on Tempo two, and they're talking like this.

[Josh Johnson]

What the fuck are they understanding?

[Lauren LaRose]

They get it and can repeat it,

[DJ Envy]

but they get it and they understand it. Me, Positive two, I gotta slow it down to Negative two so I can get it. You know what I mean?

[Josh Johnson]

No, I'm with you. I think that some of it is packaging, though, because I'm not saying that. That institutions have always done everything right, so they should not budge at all. But I think that some of it is in the packaging. And I find that, like, I think there are subtle tells when a network is doing something specifically to fit in, versus being at the cutting edge of meeting people where they are, if that makes sense. Like, for instance, this is like one of my biggest pet peeves is like, you will be watching engaging conversation, so not just everybody screaming over each other on one of those like. Like panels, right? You'll be watching an engaging conversation. And then they'll be like, okay, can you wrap up the. In the entire thing in 90 seconds. We. We have to go to break whatever. I personally think that we are moving to a place where the news, if we want to meet people where they are, if we want to cover top 10, you know, all that stuff like that, the news should be a little bit more flexible in how they package to people. Because if this thing is going well right now, why end it for a thing that maybe Nobody wants to talk about next after the commercial. And so that is an old school thing that I think probably needs to be done away with because I do think it undercuts some of their interests. And I also think that them making more news on demand and clipping pieces of the news after the fact and then putting it on places like YouTube and places to watch for free and everything that is meeting people where they are and that is like, like supplying people with the news in a way that isn't like thirsty or gonna dilute your overall credibility. Because I think that one of the best things for news is that stories started being on demand. So now I'm interested in this thing and I don't have to wait until 8 o' clock for them to hopefully talk about it again. I can learn about it in real time because they already covered it. So now I can watch it. And if I'm covering a story, like let's say I'm a journalist and I'm trying to find background on a bunch of different things, I can look up things and collect things and make a playlist and then watch it back faster than any other time in history. And so then I can go out more informed than ever on a subject. Just me personally, never mind the research that the team might be doing. And so I think that's a great way that news has made adjustments. I just think that more adjustments need to be made. That, yeah, some, some of them just. And, and that's just my opinion, but some of them just seem a little thirsty to me.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah, I think cable news sucks. I got. This is my last question. I want to go back to the Nick Shirley thing, right? Because the Minnesota fraud scandal, we know it's real, right, because we know 78 people have been charged, 60 convicted or pled guilty. So when you know that, does the intention, you know, or why he may have done it or to how he did it, did that matter?

[Josh Johnson]

I do think the how matters because I think the how is the difference between a, between a journalist and between like a troll. Do you know what I mean? Like. Cause Nick Shirley did not lead to all those convictions. Nick Shirley did not like. To me, Nick Shirley is like someone who will go somewhere with a microphone already following a narrative and a story that they've established ahead of time.

[Angela Yee]

So you think somebody told him what was going on? Somebody already did the investigation and just said, hey, you go ahead and blame it up.

[Josh Johnson]

I don't even think someone told him. I think that you, you can if you, if you're Looking online, some of these people were already being in. In process of. Of being indicted and. And stuff like that. So now, you know, you can go there. And Nick Shirley himself is really. I can't imagine him ever going to a place and being like, oh, actually, y', all, the Haitians weren't eating the chickens. They weren't. They weren't. I'm. You know what? I'm sorry. That's my bad. I went to the chickens. Oh, yeah, chickens are fine. Yeah. No, no, I'm just saying biting the head off because. Because the. The dog. The dog and cat thing led to so many other, like, weird fringe things that people were saying. They were like, oh, they're doing blood rituals with chickens and stuff like that. Like, whatever. Like, Nick Shirley's not gonna go to that community and then put cameras in people's faces and ask trolley type questions and then be like, y', all, I did my investigating. Turns out I was just being racist. That's my bad. Like, that's. That's never gonna happen. And so I think it's important to really take note of why. And this also goes with, like, political commentators. Anything. There may be something that is happening that we can't. That no one's trying to deny is happening. But before you align yourself with the narrative that someone is building, I think it's just important to. To investigate it. The person and why they're building that narrative. You know, like, you will not see Nick Shirley cover a bunch of the sort of rise of Nazism in ice, let's say.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah, I get what.

[Josh Johnson]

You know what I mean? And so it's like, all right, so even if he covers something and he's completely right about it, let's see what. Let's see what this intention is, because I think that also the intention can be backtracked to, like, what is he right about? So basically, he showed up late to a story that's actually what happened. This thing was already going through the proper channels of the American justice system. And this kid shows up late and then blows up the thing.

[Angela Yee]

More like he amplified it to reinforce the narrative.

[Josh Johnson]

Exactly. And it's like, but the narrative isn't. There was some fraud. We investigate. We found it, and the people are being held accountable.

[Angela Yee]

Somali Americans.

[Josh Johnson]

Somali Americans are stealing billions of. Actually, you know why the price of bread went on up? Somali Americans. You know why the price of gas is up? It's not stray of her moves. It's not. No Somali Americans. And so it's like, I think you just have to track that stuff. And. And I wish I could even articulate it a little bit better than I am now of like. Of, like, how important it is to track how narrative building happens, you know, because he is. He. Nick Shirley isn't someone at the cutting edge. Nick Shirley is someone who shows up after the fact to, like, amplify the aspect of the racist thing. That's true. To make the whole racist narrative look true.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah, because now he's saying he's being held hostage in Cuba.

[Josh Johnson]

This dude said he was being held hostage in Cuba in a hotel that he's not even supposed to be that hotel. The way that the embargo worked, even the way that we travel there now, to my knowledge, he's not even supposed to be at that hotel. It's technically illegal for him to buy. Like, the Cubans don't care. But on America's side, we're like, don't give them money by staying at this hotel. Whatever. Right? And so it's like you're saying you're being held hostage in Cuba, and, like, how are you being held hostage? How did you get to Cuba again? And what were you trying to cover in Cuba? What? Help. Help me. Help me understand, because you're not good at talking.

[Angela Yee]

Josh, I'll tell you something. It's gonna be hard for you to shake those journalist allegations.

[Josh Johnson]

I'll tell everybody one at a time. I'm not a journalist.

[DJ Envy]

Well, tonight he's hosting the Webby Awards.

[Josh Johnson]

Definitely.

[DJ Envy]

Check it out. And we appreciate you for joining us, brother.

[Angela Yee]

No, the webby was on May 11th.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. I was like, oh, is this going out? That's the only reason I didn't say anything. I was like, I saw your face. Okay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I thought you were stuck on the journalist thing.

[Josh Johnson]

No, I was like, oh, are we saving it?

[Angela Yee]

Awards in May 11th. And his HBO special symphony is May 22nd.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Shout out to the Webbies. Thank you.

[Angela Yee]

Okay, so can I finish what I'm saying?

[DJ Envy]

Yes.

[Angela Yee]

All right.

[Josh Johnson]

Okay. No matter when this goes out, shout out to the Webby Awards for having me. Oh. 30th anniversary of the Webby Award, celebrating

[DJ Envy]

the best of the Internet tonight, ladies and gentlemen, Johnson.

[Angela Yee]

Thank you for joining us, Mr. Breakfast Club.

[Josh Johnson]

Appreciate y'. All hold up. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up.

[Angela Yee]

The Breakfast Club.

[Timbo]

Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the Internet lost its mind. Mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

[Josh Johnson]

I'm Timbo.

[Timbo]

And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source. The athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports slice on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. And from More follow Timbo, Slice Life 12 and the TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

[Angela Yee]

Another podcast from some SNL late night

[Josh Johnson]

comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week.

[Angela Yee]

My guests SNL's Mikey Day and head

[Josh Johnson]

writer Streeter Sidel help an acapella band

[Angela Yee]

with their between songs banter.

[Josh Johnson]

Where does your group perform?

[Angela Yee]

We do some retirement home.

[Josh Johnson]

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. My mother in law spent years sabotaging our relationship until karma made her pay for it. Alright Sofia, tell me about how we started this story. She moved in for two weeks, lasted five days, left a mess, and then pressed her ear against their bedroom door and burst in screaming when kicked out to a hotel. She called her son law's workplace, pretending his partner had been rushed to the hospital by ambulance. She faked a medical emergency and spoiler, that was just the beginning. To find out how it ends, listen to the okay, Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show. Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date? Oh no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Josh Johnson]

Guaranteed human.