INTERVIEW: Katrina Brownlee Tells Her Story Of Survival, Domestic Abuse, Resilience + More

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club Episode: INTERVIEW: Katrina Brownlee Tells Her Story Of Survival, Domestic Abuse, Resilience + More Release Date: August 12, 2025

---

Introduction

In this powerful episode of The Breakfast Club, host Charlamagne Tha God engages in a heartfelt conversation with Katrina Brownlee, the author of her memoir, Then Came the Blues: My Story of Survival on Both Sides of the Badge. Katrina shares her harrowing journey of surviving domestic abuse, being shot ten times, and overcoming significant personal and professional challenges. Her story is one of resilience, faith, and unwavering determination to create change.

---

Katrina Brownlee’s Journey of Survival

Katrina delves into her traumatic experiences, beginning with domestic abuse inflicted by her ex-fiancé, a CEO who exploited his power as a correction officer. She recounts, “[02:16] Katrina Brownlee: … I speak about that because of me being abused both personally and professionally. The badges on both sides symbolize the duality of my suffering.”

Key Points:

• Dual Abuse: Katrina was abused both in her personal life and within her role as a police officer.
• Impact of Power Dynamics: Her ex-fiancé's authority as a correction officer exacerbated the abuse, making it difficult for her to seek help.

---

Overcoming Trauma and Finding Strength

Katrina attributes her survival and strength to her faith, therapy, and her children. “[01:28] Katrina Brownlee: … the first thing I say it was God, faith, God, therapy, and my children. That's what kept me fighting.” She describes being in survival mode, navigating through her trauma while striving to protect her children.

Key Points:

• Support Systems: Faith and therapy played crucial roles in her healing process.
• Motherhood: Her children were a primary motivator for her to keep fighting and not give up.

---

Experiences in Law Enforcement

Despite her traumatic experiences with the police system, Katrina chose to become a detective to enact change from within. “[04:32] Katrina Brownlee: … I wanted to shape and clean this place up because I believed I could effect change.” She speaks candidly about the challenges of working in a department that had failed her and her realization that systemic change was a daunting but necessary endeavor.

Key Points:

• Motivation to Change: Personal trauma drove Katrina to join law enforcement with the hope of making a difference.
• Systemic Challenges: Faced with a flawed system, she struggled to implement the changes she envisioned.

---

Rebuilding Identity and Achieving Peace

Katrina shares her journey of rebuilding her identity post-trauma through therapy and faith. “[09:10] Katrina Brownlee: … a lot of therapy and a lot of God helped me regain my strength and power.” She emphasizes the importance of finding inner peace and not allowing others to disrupt it.

Key Points:

• Therapeutic Healing: Intensive therapy was pivotal in her recovery.
• Spiritual Faith: Faith provided her with the necessary strength to move forward.

---

Forgiveness and Empathy

A significant part of Katrina’s healing involved forgiving her abuser to prevent herself from becoming a victim of bitterness. “[10:08] Katrina Brownlee: … if you do not forgive, you become a product of that. I was broken long enough.” She also reflects on her complex feelings of empathy towards her abuser, recognizing his brokenness.

Key Points:

• Importance of Forgiveness: Letting go of anger was essential for her personal liberation.
• Understanding Abusers: Empathy for her abuser stemmed from understanding his own brokenness.

---

Advocacy and Creating Change

Katrina discusses her initiatives, including founding Young Ladies of Our Future and Can't Be Silenced, aimed at supporting at-risk young women and addressing the domestic violence crisis. “[32:54] Katrina Brownlee: … I wanted to pour into them and make a difference in their lives.”

Key Points:

• Empowerment Programs: Focused on empowering young women through education and support.
• Voice for the Voiceless: Advocates for victims of domestic violence, providing a platform for their stories.

---

Challenges Within the Police System

Katrina provides an insider’s perspective on the police system, highlighting issues like the "blue wall of silence" and the lack of adequate mental health support for officers. “[14:42] Katrina Brownlee: … cops get abused by higher-ups, making it difficult to protect and serve effectively.” She calls for mandatory mental health training to better support officers.

Key Points:

• Systemic Abuse: Police officers themselves face abuse within the system, affecting their ability to perform their duties.
• Mental Health Support: Advocates for comprehensive mental health training for law enforcement.

---

Final Reflections and Legacy

In her concluding thoughts, Katrina emphasizes the importance of storytelling and healing. “[40:11] Katrina Brownlee: … I want people to understand the importance of loving yourself, the importance of getting healed, the importance of your mental health.” She reflects on her transformation and the peace she has found, stating, “[44:23] Katrina Brownlee: … I made it.”

Key Points:

• Empowerment Through Sharing: Sharing her story serves as a beacon of hope and inspiration for others.
• Inner Peace: Achieving peace has allowed Katrina to move forward without fear or bitterness.

---

Notable Quotes

• “[01:28] Katrina Brownlee: … the first thing I say it was God, faith, God, therapy, and my children. That's what kept me fighting.”
• “[04:32] Katrina Brownlee: … I wanted to shape and clean this place up because I believed I could effect change.”
• “[10:08] Katrina Brownlee: … if you do not forgive, you become a product of that. I was broken long enough.”
• “[20:14] Katrina Brownlee: … this guy called me just the other day, and he said, thank you for the experience. Wow.”
• “[40:11] Katrina Brownlee: … I want people to understand the importance of loving yourself, the importance of getting healed, the importance of your mental health.”

---

Conclusion

Katrina Brownlee’s story, as shared on The Breakfast Club, is a testament to human resilience and the power of self-healing. Her journey from surviving domestic abuse and systemic failure within the police force to becoming a beacon of hope and an advocate for change serves as an inspiring narrative for listeners. Through her memoir and ongoing advocacy, Katrina continues to impact lives, encouraging others to find their strength and voice amidst adversity.

---

For more information about Katrina Brownlee's initiatives or to purchase her memoir, visit her social media platforms or bookstores nationwide.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Carlos Miller]

Taking control of your career is empowering. Just don't tell my boss I said that. Just kidding. I am the boss. This is Carlos Miller from the 85 South Show. And building a career isn't just about a job. It's about creating a path that impacts our community and future generations. Whether you're starting out or even making big moves, State Farm is here to support you with resources to help protect what you're working hard to achieve. They've got your back every step of the way. Because like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Find out more@state farm.com hold up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club. Y' all finished or y' all done? Yes. It's the world's most dangerous morning show. The Breakfast Club. Charlamagne. The God, DJ Envy. Just hilarious. They're not here today, but Lauren LaRosa is in and. And we have a special guest, the author of the new book and Then Came the Blues, My story of survival on both sides of the Badge, A memoir. Katrina Brownlee is here. How are you?

[Katrina Brownlee]

I'm doing well. How are you?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I am blessed. Black and highly favored. You have a hell of a story. Where do you want to begin?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Wherever you want to go.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, the memoir tells a story of you being shot 10 times and overcoming the domestic violence. What helped you find the courage to not only write this book, but just to keep fighting for your life and, I guess, for your future as well?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Oh, gosh. The first thing I say it was God, faith, God, therapy, and my children. That's what kept me fighting. That's all I had was nothing else to even look at to say, you know what I want to fight. Like, when you in survival mode, it's survival. You out there in the wilderness all by yourself, and you just trying to figure it out as you go along.

[Podcast Host]

The tagline of the book is my story of survival on both sides of the badge. Talk about, you know, just the choice to make, that the tagline. Because there was one point where you were keeping what you were going through personally, the violence you were experiencing in your work as a police officer, separate.

[Katrina Brownlee]

So in terms. You speaking in terms of what does the badge on both sides mean? Yes. Oh, badge on both sides mean my life of me being abused. I wasn't just abused in. In terms of a domestic violence relationship. In the book, it also speaks about how I was a child abuse. Child abuse, sexually abused. So I speak about that, and then I speak about the fact of me being A detective being a police officer. So it's, it's badges on both sides.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And your ex fiance was a CEO.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Correct.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And so he basically used to abuse his power.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Correct.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Put his hands on you.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Correct.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Flash his badge.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And threaten you, you know, on, on speaking out.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Right. I was the inmate and he was the correction officer at home. That's how it was. Damn.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's pretty tough. What was it like for you day to day at work? You know, just with everything that you were experiencing, being able to then deal with other people's issues and showing up for other people. Like, what was that like mentally for you?

[Katrina Brownlee]

It was so heavy for so many years because every day that you go to work, you never know that if somebody is going to recognize you or, or remember your story. Because a few people did know my story. It did make the news because at the time he was a correction officer. So my name was Katrina Cook at that time, and so it's Brownlee. So a lot of people didn't put two and two together. And then when my story came out, a lot of people began to reach out to me. So it was just like a real difficult time just to work and especially work in the police department and for. With. How can I say it? Not for, but, you know, work for an organization that had failed me.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Katrina Brownlee]

So I went in with the mindset of that I was going to change this department and I was going to be this good cop. But then when you go in, you realize that this is bigger than you. You ain't changing this. You gonna follow the rules or deal with the consequences.

[Podcast Host]

I guess that was my question. Like, just in everything that you had dealt with, then deciding to go and be a part of a force, it's like, it's. It's so much that you can't change, but you get there to change it. Like, but you're also still dealing with your own stuff mentally. I just, maybe my question is why, like, why did you think that you could break that system down?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Because of all the pain that I had went through, everything that I had endured, like, who was gonna save me? They couldn't, they couldn't save me, so I had to try to save myself.

[Podcast Host]

Gotcha.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When you, when you would call the police and you know, he would flash his badge and then the officers would, would leave, did that just make you feel hopeless? Like, what. How did you think you was gonna get out that situation?

[Katrina Brownlee]

I. To be honest with you, it was gonna either be me or him. That's how bad it was. Getting. And the only reason what kept me from either killing myself, killing him, was my children. Because I was like, my kid's gonna be motherless.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And I guess, you know, Lauren was getting at this. But I guess what I wanna ask, how did that betrayal from the police shape your decision to enter law enforcement yourself?

[Podcast Host]

Cause I'd be mad going, yeah, I wouldn't want to.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I wouldn't want to be no cop. Like, because you call it a blue wall of silence. We all call it a blue wall of silence. But now you. Another brick on that wall.

[Katrina Brownlee]

To try to answer your question. Like I said, like, for me, I needed to be able to be protected. So in order for me to be protected, I had to. That was one of the ways to be protected. Like, I'm going to go in and I'm going to. Cause if I'm a cop, they didn't give him a long sentence. So he's coming out. So is he gonna come out and finish the job? But if I'm a cop, what is he. He not gonna do that. He's not gonna behave that way. Right? And then my thing was, I wanna go in and I want to be able to shape. I wanna clean this place up. Like, I had this mindset. Cause I just believe that I can go in there, I can change. Because I wanted change. Because I could not believe that you would see me with a black eye. You would see me with a busted lip, and you would just say, work it out. Or you wouldn't even. You wouldn't even address me. And I'm standing there. You don't say anything to me. But because he showed his shield, he had the right to do what he did.

[Podcast Host]

What's it like? Cause we hear a lot about, like, when women are in these situations, there's this pattern of almost feeling, like, sorry for the person that is abusing you, or, like, just some sort of, like, savior. Like, you want to save them from, like, whatever the consequence may be. Because you're trying to figure out, like, why it's happening or whatever the case may be. I know he had tried to call and reach out to you to have you say he didn't do certain things. Was there ever a moment where you thought, like, it would be best for me to just be quiet about this?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Oh, absolutely. Because I. Because he was a sole provider for our household. So. So I thought about it. I was like, now he in jail, like, how I'm gonna take care of myself? So I became homeless. So I thought about it, but then I just said, to myself, nah, I'm not doing that. Like, I'm not gonna do that. Like, it's gonna be. It's whatever at this point. And so, you know, and I speak about it in the book. You know, how his mom had written a letter and signed my name and said that I had shot myself 10 times. What.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How difficult is it to have these conversations? I mean, because, you know, when I. When I see your story and, you know, there's certain things I want to ask. I don't want to trigger you. So how. How difficult is it to have these conversations?

[Katrina Brownlee]

You can ask me whatever.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Yeah. If this is. If this is a safe space, you can ask me whatever.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Absolutely.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Oh, yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I mean, just talking about it, I know, you know, you got to relive it because you had to rewrite, you know, you had to write the book. And then, you know, now you ask being asked questions. But no, you were shot 10 times and you were left for dead while you was five months pregnant. And they said it went. It went on for an hour and a half.

[Katrina Brownlee]

I don't. I don't know how long it went on, honestly, because I was in and out of consciences. I don't know. I just. You know, that part was told to me by the. By the ADA who now is one of my good friends.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How did you rebuild your identity after all of this happened? After being homeless, after, you know, having to break down, after being shot and left for dead? Like, how did you just rebuild your identity to even become the detective that you became? And you were part of the mayor's security detail as well?

[Katrina Brownlee]

I was, yeah. A lot. A lot. A lot of therapy. A lot of therapy and a lot of God. That is what helped me. And just the will that God had given me to just want to live. And when you get the will to live, then it's. It's that light on the wall right there, up in the ceiling, and you follow that light and you allow that light to continue to go. And that's your strength, and that's your power. And then you get your power back. And so that's what it was for me, because that's. That's all I had.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you truly forgive somebody when they do something that heinous to you?

[Katrina Brownlee]

I had to, because I was angry. I was so bitter. I was bitter. And when you bitter at that level.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Some tissue, Brandon.

[Katrina Brownlee]

When you bitter at that level. Thank you. If you do not forgive, you become a product of that. And I just did not want to be that. I was broken Long enough. And in order to. For you to get into a situation like that, it had to be a story that happened. We don't. We don't wake up and get into these relationships. So I came from transgenerational trauma, and that's how I wind up in a situation where a man shoots me 10 times and abuse me.

[Podcast Host]

Talk a bit about the chapter until we meet again. We talk about your mom and you talk about just, you know, how everything that you went through made you treat. Just being able to wake up and live every single day. Why was it important for you to include that chapter in the book?

[Katrina Brownlee]

I did not have a relationship with my mother. So when she died, it was like I got robbed, like totally robbed. And I will never know what it feels like to have a mother. So I just felt that it was important to just speak about that because I know that I'm not the only one that's out there. And this book is not just for me. It's for all people that can be able to relate to my story. And I just hope that it inspire people. I hope it can change people's life. And I just hope that even for people that are abusers, that they can go get help because abuses, they're broken and mental health is real.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What was the emotional turning point in the writing process of this book that just made you feel like a little lighter?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Because I wasn't able to really tell the story. I wasn't. So this was. It was like, I'm finally getting everything out now. Like it was like, I'm be honest, like being constipated, like for so many years.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Gotta get that shit up.

[Katrina Brownlee]

There you go, right there. There you go, right there. That part. And so that's what I'm telling you. That's exactly how I felt. And it felt so good. And it feels good to be able to now be able to speak my truth and be able to tell the story. Even I have friends that I had been friends with for so many years that didn't even know my story. So you sit out with your girlfriends, you hang out with them, you travel with them, and they don't even know who you really are. And you living in this bubble, this world, because you can't really tell. Because if I would have told and somebody told the police department, they would have fired me. Cause they wouldn't have want that stigma.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When you became an officer, did you have more empathy for law enforcement? Like, did you realize why they were the way they were?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Oh, absolutely. Okay, let me tell you Something that people don't know. The cops, they get abused by the higher ups there. They get. I'm telling you, they get abused. So if you. That's just like if you abuse your child. Right. A lot of times your child becomes an abuser. So that's what. That's all it is. They don't get treated well there. So now if I'm not getting treated well, how I'm gonna go out here and protect and serve? How I'm gonna go out there and protect and be kind to people when I'm not even being kind at home? The police, that's your home, right? You there to protect and serve. You there to go out there and do your job. But if you're being beat down and you being told you a loser and you're being told that you ain't right enough summonses or you ain't locked enough people up, and then you get in trouble, and if you tell and if you snitch, the consequences. So how can you go out there and really be effective?

[Podcast Host]

What about the stuff that you were saying aside, like you talked about, like the chocolate team and the vanilla team.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And the different neighborhoods they would go to.

[Katrina Brownlee]

That's right. And it's.

[Podcast Host]

Well, I guess you should explain it for people, the difference between the teams. And then I wanted to ask you about you going to your boss and saying, hey, they're doing illegal searches. You need to figure that out. And the boss was like, I'm cool.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Yeah. The chocolate team with the black team and the vanilla team was the Caucasian team.

[Podcast Host]

And they went to. So, like, y' all are in different neighborhoods or whatever. You decide to. You see something that you know is not right. You decide to go to your higher up. Your higher up says, I'm not disturbing my pension to correct a bad cop.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Right. Because a lot of times if you would tell it's consequences. It's real. It is really real. And this is your life you talking about. Cops kill theyself all the time. What do you think they killing they self for? Ain't killing theyself because. Because they ain't getting enough money or enough love. They killing theyself because it's real in there. A lot of guilt and they can't be who they want to be. They can't be they authentic self there. So they got to be somebody else. And sometimes people can't handle that. Everybody mental health level is different. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. I've been having that conversation a lot lately. Like, you know, I feel like police officers should have should have to deal with mental health professionals, like, literally every. Every year, every week. Like, they should be sitting down with mental health professionals.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. They have some hotline called Papa, But I don't even think that those are. Those are people that are actually equipped to be able to deal with the trauma that police officers face every day. That should be. You make sure that it's mandatory training for all these other different things that don't really matter. But why you don't have mandatory mental health training for your police officer so they can be suited and booted and in a. In a good mental state to be out there to. To go out there to fight and be able to really protect and serve. That's right. Right. So if you want to have a great police department, you got to have a great police department, and they got to be able to have integrity. You got to be able to have. Have police officers be able to just really show up for someone. That's why I didn't wanna be a domestic violence officer. I was like, I'm not going there and go to a call and it's a domestic violence officer. And what I'm gonna really do for her or what I'm gonna really do for him. Come on. The system ain't geared to help us like that, especially people that look like us.

[Podcast Host]

Do you even now, in sharing your story in the book, you talked about switching units because of, like, just fear of the things that were happening or whatever.

[Katrina Brownlee]

What part are you talking about?

[Podcast Host]

You talked about the. You said y' all arrested. I think it was like 145, 147 people. There was, like, buses of people. And you were saying that, like, being in Narcotics was getting a little like you were fearing for your safety.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Oh, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Do you feel for your safety now because you're talking about all this stuff?

[Katrina Brownlee]

No, absolutely not. I trust God. You know, I believe that he has me on an assignment, and whatever it's going to be, it's going to be, I'm telling the truth. I'm telling the truth, and I am here on whatever platform to be able to speak the truth. And so we got to stop lying to people, you know, we got to stop lying. Like, we not. We not. We're not being real with people. Let's stop lying. Let's start telling the truth, and let's start really showing up. And if we not showing up, then shut up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But as you said, though, people are afraid to tell the truth, especially in that system, because of fear of retaliation.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Yeah, well, you know, why Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, right? Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. And I stood quiet. And so now I get to be able to tell the truth. So you gotta do what you have to do and do it with wisdom and knowledge and understanding. That's how you do it. Not saying go out there and be foolish about it, but have some wisdom with it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I saw in an interview where you said a good cop is somebody with empathy. Who cares?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So what is a bad cop? Somebody who just doesn't have.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Just don't care. Yeah. I'm just here. I'm here to get. I'm just here. Got my uniform on. I got my suit on, and I'm here. A lot of cops, they haven't even. Let me tell you something. I remember working with a partner of mine, and we were in the car, and he said to me, he said, you know, I never was around black people till I came to this job.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Damn.

[Katrina Brownlee]

And I was like, what? I said, so how you gonna police us if you have never experienced? And he dropped his head, and I took him to my aunt's house, and I said, I'm going to show you what black family look like, because our story ain't your story. And I took him there, and I caught my aunt on the phone, and I said, I'm going to bring this young man to the house. And she cooked this fried chicken and made him some real soul food.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Changed his life.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Let me tell you something. This guy called me just the other day, and he said, thank you for the experience. Wow.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So I wonder, when you become an officer, of course, there's people who just naturally don't have empathy, but I wonder if you can go in with empathy but then lose it.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Oh, 100%. Because you can get right in the mix with them. You can get right in it. And it ain't hard for you to. I'm telling you, because had I not had my experience, it's a great possibility that that would have happened to me. Wow. Because you really believe in. You really believe in this. In this. In. In this family. Because let me tell you something. Some of them cops, that's all they got is that family. And they. I'm telling you, they live and die. I mean, I got police, they are going in my comments, like, trying to attack me. And I'm like, y' all know I'm telling the truth, but y' all rather protect that than to protect this. And I don't want people to feel sorry for me. Mm. Cause I'm not No victim. I've been victimized, but I'm not no victim. So I wanna be real clear and one person said in the comments, oh, what more do you want? You retired a first grade detective. What do you mean? I worked hard to be a first grade detective. Ain't nobody give that to me. Have I gotten help along the way? Absolutely. But I worked, I worked in the streets and I worked in the streets that looked like you and I because I understood that had I not been there, things would have been different for a lot of people. Wow.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You spoke about how, you know, you forgave your ex fiance cause you didn't want to have that bitterness in you. Did you also have some, maybe some empathy for him because you know how he became that way?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Maybe I have empathy for him because he a broken man in pieces. He ain't made. He has, he was never made of up of anything. No substance to him as a man. Any man that can put his hands on a woman and you shoot her and you beat her and you murder your child, what is he made of? Absolutely nothing. You have to have empathy for him.

[Podcast Host]

What about for your grandmother? Like did you ever get to a place where you forgave her? Or like, I know there was something about like her when y' all first like, I guess like broke up. She knew what was going on. She was like, you know, work it out, figure it out with him.

[Katrina Brownlee]

I never was mad at my grandmother because my grandmother was a product of brokenness. Speak about that in the book My grandfather left my grandmother for a white woman. And that.

[Carlos Miller]

Hey, fam. This is Carlos Miller from the 85 South Show. If you're like me, you're always thinking about how to level up your career. Maybe you're fresh out of college, just starting in your field or even looking to switch things up and find your true calling. Whatever stage you're in, remember that this is your time to grow, to learn, and to build something that lasts. State Farm understands that early career development is the key to long term success. They've been a steady presence in our community and they know having the right support early can make all the difference. State Farm is there to help you make smart moves and to help you get the coverage you need. We all know that the journey to success is a marathon, not a sprint. It's all about staying focused, staying grounded, and making sure you're protected every step of the way. Let's build our careers with confidence, knowing that State Farm is there to support us, just like they've always been. Because Like a good neighbor. State farm is there 5. Find out more at statefarm.com was the.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Demise of my family. My grandmother never recovered. She died from a broken heart.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you think abusers need rehabilitation or jail time?

[Katrina Brownlee]

I think both. I think both. While you in there, you should be able to get your help, your healing, whatever it is that you need. Because if you put them in prison and you don't do nothing with them, or they come out and be a worse savage than they already was. That's right. That's right.

[Podcast Host]

I was gonna ask, how do you deal with your day to day now? Cause like, where is he? Like, what is he?

[Katrina Brownlee]

I have no idea. I have no idea.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you still live in fear of him?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I fear no one but God.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, the title of your book alludes to the blues, right? And you think of blues, you think of like the music. The music, right? What does blues mean to you and how does it reflect, you know, your journey from trauma to healing?

[Katrina Brownlee]

And then King, the blues is my life. And then the NYPD life. Those are the blues.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Got you.

[Katrina Brownlee]

And then the blues of my life. My life was blues on top of blues. Mm.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What color is it now?

[Katrina Brownlee]

White. That's right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You feel like you definitely came out on the other side.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Oh, let me tell you something. I've never been in a better place. I have finally found peace. And when you get peace, you will never allow anybody else to. To disrupt that peace. I'm walking peace. I live for peace.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you remember the exact moment, like you felt it? Like, oh, man, I feel free. I feel peace.

[Katrina Brownlee]

When I left city hall that day and I retired, wow. I'm telling you, it was like a light just came over on me. Wow. And my. The ADA that was on my case at the time, she was there at my walkout and we were leaving and she said, I've been waiting to send this post. Do I have your approval to now tell the world what happened to you? And I said, absolutely. And when she pressed in, it, was it. Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Was there ever a moment of, like, when you had to testify in court, right? Or decided to. Was there ever a moment for you where you thought you felt that peace that you're talking about, but then later on I guess you realize, like, you're finally here, like. Cause I would think maybe that would bring you some sort of closure or peace as well too?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Or no, you mean testify with my.

[Podcast Host]

With your ex fiance?

[Katrina Brownlee]

I never got a chance to testify.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, so when you showed up to court, they didn't put you in the stand.

[Katrina Brownlee]

When I showed up in the court. When I showed up in the courtroom, he turned around and saw me because he thought that he had intimidated me enough that I would not come.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Cause he was threatening you from jail, Right.

[Katrina Brownlee]

To come to court. And when I walked in and he saw me, he whispered to his attorney. And the next thing I know, they took me back out of the courtroom. And the next thing I knew, I pled guilty.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Cause you came to the. You first. You told the DA you was gonna disappear, right?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Yeah, I told her I was disappearing.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And then you came later in the trial.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Yeah. Cause she told me that she was gonna hunt me down or something, like a dog. I can't remember what. She told me she had teeth. She had told me. She was like, that is not. You're gonna show. And I'm like, for what? Nothing's going to happen to him. And everything that I said was going to happen, it happened. Wow. And that's when people read the book. You will see every single thing. How does a man shoot someone 10 times, kill their child, and all you give them is 5 to 15? Tell me how that works.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, because you're a black woman.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Number one. Number two, because he was part of the law enforcement.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So they was protecting their own.

[Katrina Brownlee]

That's right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, that part. So your decision not to want to show up until day four, it was. It was. That was a decision out of fear, basically.

[Katrina Brownlee]

It was. It was fair. And then I was just like, it's nothing like I'm. Listen, it is what it is, right? We not gonna play no more games. I'm tired of showing up and y' all not showing out. So am I going to show up today? What's going to happen if I show up today? When y' all show up, what's going to happen? Is something going to change today? Damn.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm wondering, being that you never told anybody your story and you know, when those. When you would get calls for those domestic violence cases, why did you tell people you weren't. You didn't want to be involved in them when you're an officer?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Because I can't. What was I. There's nothing geared in the department that really helped domestic violence victim. What's. What. What. What am I. So why would I do that to somebody else?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Were you kind of thinking to yourself, I might go out here and be a vigilante and end up hurting one of these?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Nah. No, I wasn't. No. I like freedom. I went to early on in My career. I went to the jail and did the scare program. And I said, oh, no. No way. No. And that was one of the things that I wanted to. That I felt good about because y' all would have fired me if I would have told you. But look how I went and didn't have no scandals. I did my job. I had integrity. I was respected. And then I. And I left in a clean slate. I did that. And y' all would have said that I couldn't have done that. And I've had people put in my comments that they was being honest on their interview, trying to get onto the police department and told them that they were a victim and they never heard from the police department. And I got it in my DMs, and I've made sure that I screenshot them. Wow. And my publicist, she can tell you I've have. She. She knows that I'm that. That I'm not lying. And they say, oh, she's lying. We wouldn't have fired her.

[Podcast Host]

Have any of the officers that showed up those times when you did reach out to police come back and been like, we should have done more.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Funny.

[Podcast Host]

Sorry. Anything.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Let me tell you when the story first drop. Anonymous caller called me. A lot of anonymous police officers were calling me and saying, you're a hero. I wish that I had the strength to do what you're doing. Thank you for being a voice. But I had one call me and he said, I'm not sure if I'm the officer that responded to you because I worked at the 8:1 at that time. He said, but I want to say to you that I apologize if I am. He said, I'm not going to tell you my name. I believe he told me he was either a captain or an inspector at the time that he retired. And he retired and he had moved to Florida. And he said, I just want to tell you that I apologize to you, and hung up the phone.

[Podcast Host]

Did that do anything for you?

[Katrina Brownlee]

I just broke down in tears because I said, maybe had you did something, maybe this wouldn't have happened to my life. But he never gave me a chance to say anything.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, they say everybody got to have a testimony, right? Because if you didn't have that testimony, you wouldn't be where you are now. But damn, do you have to go through all of that? You have the. You have the organization Our Young Ladies of Our Future, which is a nonprofit organization that serves at risk young women. And you have Can't Be Silenced, an organization working on solutions to the Urgent domestic violence crisis. What made you want to start both those organizations?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Well, young ladies of our future. I wanted to start that because I never wanted any young girl, young lady, to ever have to endure what I have endured. So if I could just be able to pour into them and be able to change their lives and make a difference in their life, I just wanted to be able to do that. So that was the purpose of that. And I teach workshops just about self esteem, self awareness, a whole leap of things. And the can't be silenced piece was because I had to be silenced for so long. And now I have a voice, and I am the voice for the voiceless and the hope for the hopeless. So that is why.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So do you feel like everything happens for a reason?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Yeah, I do believe that, you know, Charlemagne. When I was a little girl, I was in so much pain from what was going on in my life. And I used to. Now people call it a journal. I had written. I used to write my diary. And I had lost it when I had gotten older, and I found it through moving.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And.

[Katrina Brownlee]

That was how I was able to just write down so much detail because it was so much pain. And I was able to put it all together. And I said to. I said, as a little girl, I said, I want to be. I want to be an author. I want to be a writer. My grandmother was a librarian. God had to give me a story to be an author. Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Ending your story in the book. I turned to the last page to show your. In your book.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Oh, yeah. I want that to be a surprise.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. Cause I thought. Just leave it there.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Yeah, I want it to be a surprise.

[Podcast Host]

I guess I'll rephrase the question. Then at the end of your book, you choose to end it in a very uplifting, like, silver lining way of all of this.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I just want to say only Lauren would give away the ending of the book.

[Podcast Host]

Because it's so sweet.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Come on.

[Podcast Host]

No, because it's so sweet.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Give away the whole ending.

[Podcast Host]

Well, okay, you're right. But I think for most people, because they hear all of this and then they're wondering, like, what is your personal life like? Like, how do you.

[Katrina Brownlee]

And I want people to see personally.

[Podcast Host]

And dating from that. And you go ahead.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Yeah. I just. I want people to know that dreams do come true and that don't ever give up on your dream. Don't ever give up on yourself, because look what happened for me. And if God can do it for me, he can do it for you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When did you first start truly loving Yourself.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Oh, gosh. Oh, God. It took so many years. When I met the minister, Louis Farrakhan.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All praise is due to the minister. Absolutely. Before the minister.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Oh, God. What? 2010, that's when I started and he began to pour into me and it changed my life.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Was that when you were able to find. I guess, you know, because they say you can't love anybody else until you love yourself. So were you able to find healthy love in your life after that?

[Katrina Brownlee]

I was able to find. Start to be able to find healthy love in friendships and relationships. Right. Because we attract what we are. Right. If you broken, you got broken homegirls. Let's keep it real. Right? Broken relationships, it's only until you get healed and made whole. And what is made whole? Nothing. Missing nothing. Damage is what's being made whole. Right. That's what that looks like.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I just got a few more questions. What have you learned about what would have been some of your biggest lessons in regards to resilience?

[Katrina Brownlee]

The biggest lessons probably is like, you gotta fight. I don't care what I'm telling. You gotta fight. You have to really, really, like, you gotta put on your boxing gloves and like, you gotta go in there like, you, the heavy world, the heavyweight world champion, if I'm saying it correctly, heavyweight champion of the world champ, Heavyweight champion of the world. Like, you gotta go into the ring with that mindset that I'm gonna come out the winner. You cannot go in there. If you go in already saying that you're defeated, you're gonna be defeated. And I was just determined, like, I got to win, I have to win. So every obstacle I said, I'm gonna get to the finish line. And I got to the finish line.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, you said you had. I was just gonna ask too about the photos and the art on the book. Just choosing like how you chose the photos in the art, like the, the back photo, the opening photos showing both sides of you. Like, how did you know what you wanted to pick image wise to match what the book would be telling? Because so on point.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Oh, that. Let me tell you, that was. That had taken a lot of meditation. Because I would, I didn't, you know, because what's going on with the police? I was like, I don't know if I want to put, put that on the COVID you know, And I'm just like, it's just not a police story. This is just not about a police story. Right. This is so much in it. So I'm just like, let me put me and let me put the cop and let's work it out like that. And then I just sent it to my literary agent and she sent me back some pictures and said, what do you think? And I said, do this. And that's how we got there. And that picture there is probably one of my favorite pictures.

[Podcast Host]

Photo on the back of the book.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You look so innocent. Because I don't see. I'm like, I'm looking and I'm like, I don't even see the pain in your eyes. Like you just.

[Katrina Brownlee]

And I was in a lot of pain. Yeah. When I'm, I'm talking about, I was at the core pain, putting that shoe on. And I had. I don't want to give too much away, but I was in a lot of pain, a lot of pain physically and mentally that day. And I remember the photographer saying, saying something to me and I just looked up at him.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

If you could speak to your younger self, you know, the 22 year old you who survived that unimaginable trauma, what do you wish she knew in that moment?

[Katrina Brownlee]

Oh, gosh. Mm. I wish I knew. God, I wish I knew what love felt like. I wish that I had gave myself some grace and had a little bit more patience with myself and wish I could have believed in myself. I mean, I can go on. Like, it's a lot. It's a lot.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What do you hope readers take away from your memoir, especially those who might be navigating their own survival stories right now?

[Katrina Brownlee]

I really hope and pray that people really, truly will be inspired. I want people to also be empowered. I want people to be educated. I. I want people to understand the importance of loving yourself, the importance of getting healed, the importance of your mental health. And I also want people to even have a little. A different outlook on the police department because all cops are not bad. They're not.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I just want, Yeah, I just want officers to stop ignoring domestic violence cases because you survived, like, literally, like you got shot 10 times survived. And I'm thinking about it so much because I just came home from, you know, South Carolina, you know, like yesterday, and I was told a story about a young woman named Angel Capers. And she was 38 years old. And she had been calling the police and telling the police, I think it was her ex or somebody was going to kill him, he's going to kill me. Because he used to beat on her, beat on her. And for whatever reason, they wasn't taking her serious. And this dude came in the house, shot and killed like six days ago. You know, she's no longer here. So it's just like. Just like, I don't understand why officers don't take that serious. If somebody says to you, hey, this person is going to kill me, why isn't something done immediately?

[Katrina Brownlee]

And the thing about it is that, look, this is in a whole nother state. This is happening everywhere. It's people from all over the world reaching out to me for help, and I can't help them because there's nothing in place for people that's in these situations. And I really wish that the government would step up and do more. We need policy. We need change. Because people are literally dying out here. And a lot of people don't even call because they know they're not going to get help. And a lot of people stay because where are they going to go?

[Podcast Host]

I got homegirls in those situations.

[Katrina Brownlee]

That's right, yes. So I'm just asking, who? Whomever, Congress. Somebody help, please.

[Podcast Host]

Why is it so hard for that to change, though? Because people, you have, like, you see people dying and not making it out. Why is it so hard to make it where if you call the police, they can actually do something and that person can't just walk back into your.

[Katrina Brownlee]

House because it's not. It's. The system is just not set up to protect. It's not. And we need change. Yeah, right. We need change. We go out and we vote for people that tell us lies. Stop voting for people. That's not helping. If they are not doing the work before they get in, why are you voting for them? That's right. We gotta stop just being a part of something that's not real. They lying and saying, oh, I could do this, I can get this done, and nothing don't get done. And then when they. And then when they get in the office, they act like they never even had those conversations. Wow.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

If people want to sign up for your seminars or, you know, be a part of the young ladies of our future or can't be silenced, where do.

[Katrina Brownlee]

They reach Ms. Katrina 456 and Katrina Brownlee on Facebook, all my social media platforms.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, I'm glad that you survived and I'm glad that you're here to tell your story, because this is going to help somebody. So End Then Came the Blues. My story of survival on both sides of the badge. A memoir from Katrina Brownlee and is available everywhere. Now my last question. One word that describes your journey.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Hmm. One last word to describe my journey. Ah, God. I made it. I made it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's Katrina Brownlee. It's the Breakfast Club. Thank you for coming.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Thank you. Thank you for having me. Hold up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up.

[Carlos Miller]

The Breakfast Club.

[Katrina Brownlee]

Y' all finished or y'? All?

[Carlos Miller]

Taking control of your career is empowering. Just don't tell my boss I said that. Just kidding. I am the boss. This is Carlos Miller from the 85 South Show. And building a career isn't just about a job. It's about creating a path that impacts our community and future generations. Whether you're starting out or even making big moves, State Farm is here to support you with resources to help protect what you're working hard to achieve. They've got your back every step of the way. Because, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Find out [e-mail] this is an iHeart podcast.