INTERVIEW: Kirk Franklin On Kevin Hart Jokes, Representing Faith, Being Imperfect, New Podcast + More

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club – Interview with Kirk Franklin

Release Date: June 19, 2025

Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God
Guest: Kirk Franklin
Podcast: The Breakfast Club
Description: The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!

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1. Welcome and Introduction (02:07 - 02:30)

The episode begins with DJ Envy and Charlamagne Tha God warmly welcoming Kirk Franklin to "The Breakfast Club." Kirk expresses his gratitude and humility in joining the show, stating, "I feel like I live here. What is this? What is it?" ([02:20]).

2. BET Awards Experience (02:30 - 05:20)

Celebrating Achievements: Charlamagne congratulates Kirk on being honored at the BET Awards. Kirk shares his nervousness about the event, admitting, "Oh, nervous. Had bubble guts." ([02:37]).

Performance Order Pressure: Kirk discusses the pressure of performing last at the BET Awards, explaining how it heightened his anxiety:
"Every moment is nerves and new. I'm about to lose it backstage. I’m about to pass." ([04:49])

Outfit Controversy: The hosts bring up the backlash Kirk received for his outfit at the BET Awards. Kirk defends his choice, highlighting the double standards faced by gospel artists:
"I always have to be careful because I know that there's a community of the super religious, that if I enjoy something too much, then it comes across like, well, why he not praying for him?" ([06:14])

3. Representing Faith and Imperfection (05:20 - 16:16)

Authenticity in Faith: Kirk emphasizes the importance of being real and imperfect while representing faith. He shares,
"I want to be the lowliest, the most humble, the most realest person so that you can see, man, that everybody's supposed to be on this bus and we also be riding together." ([06:39])

Balancing Enjoyment and Faith: He discusses the challenge of enjoying secular content without being perceived as less faithful:
"I love Jesus, but I'm not Jesus. I'm not him. I love God." ([07:00])

Church as a Hospital, Not a Country Club: Kirk articulates his vision for Christianity to be an inclusive and healing space rather than exclusive:
"Christianity is supposed to be a place that's a hospital. It's a hospital. It's not supposed to be a country club." ([09:23])

4. New Podcast: Den of Kings (16:16 - 19:36)

Concept and Inspiration: Kirk introduces his new digital series, "Den of Kings," inspired by intimate dinner conversations with black men. He explains,
"During my birthday, I came to Atlanta, had dinner with some of my good guy friends...and I just thought about having dinner with black men and what that could look like in that conversation." ([17:36])

Positive Reception: The hosts express enthusiasm over the podcast's success and its role in fostering vulnerable and meaningful discussions:
"It's been amazing, hasn't it? The response has been crazy." ([18:39])

5. Personal Life and Family (19:36 - 25:30)

Meeting His Biological Father: Kirk shares his recent encounter with his biological father, emphasizing the ongoing nature of their relationship:
"I ran into my biological father after all these years... it's still a process." ([25:07])

Balancing Career and Family: He reflects on the sacrifices made for his career and the resulting impact on his family, acknowledging both the joys and regrets:
"You live with a lot of regret. You live with a lot of guilt." ([30:18])

6. Mentorship and Social Media (25:30 - 35:52)

Modern Mentorship Approaches: Kirk discusses how mentorship has evolved, opting for informal and accessible methods rather than traditional camps:
"I try to be the book that people need to read. Whatever that looks like, I'm always available to do." ([33:26])

Impact of Social Media: He addresses the challenges of social media, balancing its benefits with the negativity that can arise, and shares his strategy to minimize its impact:
"After the BET Awards, I was like, I'm not reading nothing. I don't want to read nothing." ([35:07])

7. Final Reflections and Wisdom (35:52 - 38:00)

Life's Metaphor: Kirk uses a powerful metaphor to illustrate the importance of supporting one another:
"If you are on an island, and that island is now slowly sinking into the water... we should be praying people make it instead of complaining how they walk it." ([35:51] - [37:15])

Finding Authentic Voices: He explains his approach to building choirs with strong lead singers by seeking authentic talent:
"I look at people that I see in artist. In them. Come rock with me. And that's why they're so amazing." ([37:31])

8. Closing and Prayer (38:00 - 39:30)

Heartfelt Appreciation: Jess Hilarious expresses her deep admiration for Kirk, sharing personal anecdotes about his influence:
"Since I was little, I'm like, yo, how everybody can not just sing, but sing." ([37:33])

Closing Prayer: The episode concludes with a heartfelt prayer led by Kirk, seeking blessings and guidance:
"Father, we know that the world is crazy... We want him to be glorified in our lives... Amen." ([39:07])

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Notable Quotes:

• Kirk Franklin on Nerves:
  "I'm always nervous if I go speak. If I go to a nursing home and perform, I'm nervous if I go speak to kids." ([03:03])

• On Being Imperfect:
  "Everybody can come to the table. Everybody's at the foot of the cross because we all stink in there." ([06:39])

• Metaphor for Life:
  "If you are on an island, and that island is now slowly sinking into the water... we should be praying people make it instead of complaining how they walk it." ([35:51] - [37:15])

• On Mentorship:
  "I try to be the book that people need to read. And so whatever that looks like, I'm always available to do." ([33:26])

Conclusion:

In this engaging and heartfelt episode, Kirk Franklin opens up about the pressures of fame, the balance between faith and personal imperfection, his new ventures in digital media, and the ongoing journey of personal and familial relationships. His authenticity and vulnerability provide listeners with deep insights into the challenges and triumphs of maintaining one's faith and personal integrity in the public eye. Kirk's emphasis on community, mentorship, and genuine connections underscores the core messages of hope, resilience, and inclusivity.

For those who haven't listened, this episode offers a rich exploration of navigating success while staying true to one's values and the importance of fostering meaningful dialogues within the community.

Transcript

[DJ Envy]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Meetings, deadlines, emails. Don't you wish you could escape the chaos? That's where the all new Nissan Murano comes in. With available features like the relaxing, massaging seats to ease stress and the beautiful skyline views that bring in natural light. It's like cruising in your personal Oasis. And if you need to set a vibe, 64 colors of personalized lighting and a Bose premium sound system have you covered. Hands down, the all new Nissan Murano is your stress free getaway. Sometimes the greatest rush isn't rushing at all. Drive the all new Nissan Murano today.

[Justina Valentine]

Panoramic moonroof, ambient lighting, bows and massaging leather. Appointed seats are optional features.

[J.R. Martinez]

The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, the unexpected, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.

[Kirk Franklin]

This medal is for the men who went down that day.

[J.R. Martinez]

On Medal of Honor Stories of Courage, you'll hear about these heroes and what their stories tell us about the nature of bravery. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Katherine Townsend]

Over the years of making my true crime podcast Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community.

[Kirk Franklin]

I was calling about the murder of my husband.

[J.R. Martinez]

The murder is still out there.

[Katherine Townsend]

Each week I investigate a new case. If there is a case we should Hear about, call 678-744-6145. Listen to Helen Gone Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jeff Perelman]

I'm Jeff Perelman. And I'm Rick Jervis. We're journalists and hosts of the podcast Finding Sexy Sweat. At an internship in 1993, we roomed with Reggie Payne, aspiring reporter and rapper who went by Sexy Sweat a couple years ago. We set out to find him, but in 2020, Reggie fell into a coma after police pinned him down and he never woke up.

[DJ Envy]

But then I see my son's not moving.

[Jeff Perelman]

So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own. Listen to finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeartRadio app Apple Pod. Wherever you get your podcasts, wake that.

[Justina Valentine]

Ass up early in the morning.

[Kirk Franklin]

The Breakfast Club.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Morning everybody. It's Dej Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne the guy. We are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRosa is here and we got a special guest in the building.

[Justina Valentine]

Yes, we do.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Kirk Franklin, ladies and gentlemen, welcome.

[Kirk Franklin]

I feel like I live here.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's fine.

[Kirk Franklin]

That's a good thing. I feel like I live here. What is this? What is it? Like, the 20,000 time? I'm good with it. I'm just humbled by.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I'm glad you're here. Well, first of all, welcome and congratulations for being honored at the BET Awards this year. How was that feeling?

[Kirk Franklin]

Oh, nervous. Had bubble guts.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Really?

[Kirk Franklin]

What?

[Justina Valentine]

You are the performer of you always.

[Kirk Franklin]

On the road, bro. How I am always nervous. Didn't we talk about that, too?

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, I couldn't believe it either when he said it to me.

[Justina Valentine]

Really?

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, we talked about it about at the media room.

[Kirk Franklin]

Yeah. I'm always nervous if I go speak. If I go to a nursing home and perform, I'm nervous if I go speak to kids. I always have. Yeah, I'm over.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Really?

[Justina Valentine]

What about it makes you nervous? Like, what is it? What are you thinking about?

[Kirk Franklin]

It's. I think that, you know, there's always. First of all, I think that it has served me well is because it's never normal. I'm never comfortable. I'm always wanting to do my best. I'm always, you know. Oh. Like, I'm always concerned about every moment. You know, will it be good enough? Will it be accepted? Will it be. Will it be light? And so there's never a moment where I'm ever dialing anything in.

[Justina Valentine]

Gotcha.

[Kirk Franklin]

You know, like, everything for me is my first. Every project, every album, every song, every moment is my first. Like, I'm a new artist. I'm a new. I'm a. I'm a. I'm a struggling artist every time, and I think a lot of it. And, you know, y' all probably just even attest this. All the. The. The guests that you've had that have come from traumatic backgrounds, you know, childhood, abandonment, adoption, all that is that. I think that you are always chasing ghosts. You're always chasing ghosts. You're always looking for that good job, baby. That mama didn't give you that you didn't. That you didn't have in those formative years. So, yeah, every moment is. Is. Is nerves and new. And so at the BT wars, I'm about to lose it backstage. I'm about to pass. I'm like, wow. And then I didn't know I was going last until like a week before. Remember, we talked about that, too. So I didn't know I was going last.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah, I was mad you went last. I was mad. I said, you put somebody like that in the Front or the middle because it was so late.

[Kirk Franklin]

Well, yeah, but that. But.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But we stayed up.

[Justina Valentine]

I know. We did stay up.

[Kirk Franklin]

Wow, that's kind of y' all. But what I'm saying, though, is that you feel even more pressure. It's like, I'm not going last. It's like, you know.

[Justina Valentine]

Cause you Kirk Franklin, though.

[Kirk Franklin]

But I'm the gospel guy. And so you don't think of your genre having a space like that. You don't, you know, and you don't even expect it, like, you know. Yeah, it's. It's. It's almost like it's. It's an honor for even the genre to be acknowledged and even part of the ecosystem. Right. But when I found out that I was going last, I mean, yeah, brother, you didn't want to be sitting by me.

[Justina Valentine]

Pressure was on, huh?

[Kirk Franklin]

Well, no, I was letting them go.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Gas. Oh.

[Justina Valentine]

So Teyana Taylor and Aaron Pierre was smelling the lil.

[Kirk Franklin]

And I lied. I was like, oh, man, who did that?

[Justina Valentine]

Oh, my.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Kirk Franklin, the gassy.

[DJ Envy]

Wait, the gassy one? Cause did you have gas when you were sitting next to me? I ain't smell nothing.

[Kirk Franklin]

Well, I wasn't nervous talking to you.

[DJ Envy]

Oh, okay, great. Oh, that's good.

[Justina Valentine]

Right? Right. Cause you.

[DJ Envy]

I'm not gonna lie. I've been telling people since I met you. It's my first time meeting you. It threw me off. I didn't know you were so, like, just normal.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah. Like.

[Kirk Franklin]

So what does that mean?

[DJ Envy]

I said, you a real.

[Charlamagne tha God]

She was like, he's a real Nick.

[DJ Envy]

I never felt like that about somebody.

[Kirk Franklin]

Do you think people, like, what are people expecting for me to come in floating on clouds?

[DJ Envy]

Yes, a little bit.

[Justina Valentine]

That's what people.

[Kirk Franklin]

And I think that's unfortunate. And I think that we got to find ways to still deconstruct that. It's. I just think that it stands in the way of people feeling like that they can be a part of the family too. You know what I'm saying? Like. Like. Like everybody can pull up and be part of this God love wagon.

[DJ Envy]

You know what I'm saying?

[Kirk Franklin]

It's like. And. And so it's always challenging for me when. When there's this worth, where there's this ideal of what being a person that loves Jesus looks like. And so I want to be the. The lowliest, the most humble, the most realest person so that you can see, man, that everybody's supposed to be on this bus and we also be riding together, man.

[Justina Valentine]

That's right.

[Kirk Franklin]

We don't always know where we going? But we riding now.

[Charlamagne tha God]

During the BET Awards, they kept showing you when Kevin Hart was doing comedy. And then the whole twist was Kirk Franklin was upset with all the Kevin Hart jokes. And I'm like, they must not know Kirk.

[Kirk Franklin]

So, bro, I was, ah, it was so good. It was so good. He's good. But then I'll also give you this side. And, you know, and I, and, And I want him cap. Right. It's. I think that the biggest thing is, for me is that I always have to be careful because I know that there's a community of the super religious, that if I enjoy something too much, then it comes across like, well, why he not. Yeah, why he not praying for him? He need to walk out. And, and so there's this, there's this dichotomy that, that you live in when you say that you represent faith. That it's like, I love Jesus, but I'm not Jesus. Yeah, I'm not him. I love God. I live in a body that ain't his yet until he cracks the sky and make me more like Him. And until then, I live in this broken house, and I live in a world where things are going to be funny. I'm gonna stub my toe, and I'm not gonna speak a tongue in the middle of the night. I'm gonna cuss. You know what I'm saying? You push me too hard, it's gonna be hands, you know, I mean, I'm, you know, I, I, I am not a perfect person. And so when something's funny and it's good and funny, I wanna laugh.

[Charlamagne tha God]

How did you stop yourself from laughing? Cause he kept going. And, you know, Kev, Kevin's gonna keep going till he get. And you was pulling that laughing.

[Justina Valentine]

No, I felt like I was laughing. You and wifey, you were, but it was. You still was trying to keep that sense of, like, all right, like, you was, like, you were cracking, but you were, like, still containing yourself because it was funny.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It was.

[Kirk Franklin]

It's funny. He's funny. He's good. And so you get to see the imperfect Kirk.

[Justina Valentine]

But I think also what people don't understand is God don't want us to be perfect anyway. And either, like, I just, you know, Jesus, we not posed to be perfect. That's why he made us in his image. But it's like if he, if he put us here and he know everything we gonna do before we do it, like, he already knows. It's like, we are not him. We are of Him. You know, we're not meant to be perfect. We're just meant to follow him.

[Kirk Franklin]

And in that we always should be pursuing to be better.

[Justina Valentine]

Better.

[Kirk Franklin]

We want to be more like him. We want to be able to be changed in ways. There are things that I see in myself that I want to grow and look more like him. Like him. But I'm not on your watch.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

I'm not on your calendar. And how I get there.

[Justina Valentine]

Right.

[Kirk Franklin]

I am on his. And so I think that if we. Like I said something on this, this new digital series I have on called Den of Kings is that we have to understand, man, that, that, that, that we are patients, we're not doctors. And Christianity is supposed to be a place that's a hospital. It's a hospital. It's not supposed to be a country club. It's going to be a place where people that don't have it together could come and everybody can feel comfortable that they know that they don't have it together.

[DJ Envy]

Right.

[Kirk Franklin]

But when people come to us in our community and they feel like that we are more concerned about their, their, their habits and their ways being changed before our eyes. And you're not being changed yet. You're not doing. It's like that, that then people create performance anxiety. That's where the mask comes. Is because if I don't look the way that you think I should look soon, then now I gotta fake it till I make it.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

And then you never. And then what happens? Then you become a human doing and never human being.

[Justina Valentine]

Gotcha.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Now they also. I'm sorry, I was gonna say back to the BET Awards. They were mad at one of your outfits that you wore.

[DJ Envy]

They were mad at every. I was about to say that.

[Kirk Franklin]

Like one of the outfits I had on this year.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, they said that you apologized for it. It was a. You wore like a tank top or.

[DJ Envy]

Some show that was prior to. We talk about that too at the media room. But why?

[Kirk Franklin]

What?

[Charlamagne tha God]

They mad at the outfit? I mean, it wasn't pom pom shorts. You didn't have a thong on.

[Justina Valentine]

It was nothing like that.

[DJ Envy]

Cuz they try to say bro was twerking. Oh, sorry. Let me cover. They try to say Kirk Franklin was. Yeah, sorry. No, I don't think I can. Yeah, sorry.

[Kirk Franklin]

Hold up. Pause, pause. What's wrong with bro?

[Justina Valentine]

I. I don't know.

[DJ Envy]

You just feel like it's so crazy how like naturally you just feel like the homie and I'm like, it's Kirk Franklin.

[Kirk Franklin]

How would I not see? We got to work on that.

[DJ Envy]

It's low key. Kind of like watching at the BET Awards and seeing the energy.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, your mic went out.

[DJ Envy]

See, God didn't want me to call you bro.

[Justina Valentine]

That's what I'm saying.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's what happened when you said, don't you call him bro.

[Justina Valentine]

But see, that's the thing, though. Even when Kirk met my son, it was. It was crazy, right? Because I'm. Until you might come back on. I was saying, like, we, I. We were on the same festival in Miami for Miami Gardens, and my son was so starstruck, and Kirk made him feel like he was cool. So he go back to my mother, his grandmother, and like, I met Kirk Franklin, and he was cool. He said, you know, and he said, bro. Bro was cool. And my mother here, she go. Cause, you know, she a deacon in the church and she. You don't refer to no Kirk Franklin. I said, ma, no. Like, Kirk is really cool. Like, relax and chill. And when I just sat outside, my son like, he bro. Like, oh, that's my bro.

[DJ Envy]

I felt like my grandmother came in this room. She probably gonna call me after this interview and be like, you dare you not a man in a pulpit. You better not.

[Kirk Franklin]

But see, that's too much. That's too much pressure. That's a lot. And I'm going tell you, I. I can be candid. I don't think we're ever going to deconstruct. A lot of that is because for a lot of people, they need that to be able to be connected to their faith.

[Justina Valentine]

Wow.

[Kirk Franklin]

They need the stained glass windows. They need the pastor to look a certain way. They. They need the church service to make them feel that this is my connection. This is what holy and righteous looks like for me. And I need that to hold on. I don't need none of it. All I need is Jesus, Gang. Gang. That's all I need. All I need is Jesus. And I'm, you know, and again, I ain't talking about the European version, but with the blue eyes. I'm talking about, you know, the Jesus that died. But everybody sins at any moment. Everybody can come to the table. Everybody's at the foot of the cross because we all stink in there. That's what I need.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Know what we asking?

[DJ Envy]

Lauren, I was going to say, talking about the award show, though, there were a couple of things. So first, people were upset at the performance in a whole, like, they felt like. Yeah, I mean, I thought it was a great performance, but I think people, it. I think it just goes to, like, the people that you bring onto stage and how you. I have a quote here. I think it was Deidre Caden was upset about Glorilla winning the award, but they also called. He also mentioned, like, things being, like, a mockery of worship and, like, things of that nature. Do you get tired of that conversation at this point or at this point? Are you so used to it? It's what.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Be real, bro.

[Justina Valentine]

Gang, gang, gang, gang, gang, gang, gang, gang.

[Kirk Franklin]

On everything. I love it is what it is.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

It is what it is. God bless him and God bless them.

[Charlamagne tha God]

How did you feel about that? Because some people were mad that in the gospel category was Glorilla and yourself. It was Little Baby in yourself. It was Rhapsody, not your quote unquote, typical gospel songs. What did you think about that? Glorilla won her first BET Award was a gospel record. What are your thoughts on it? Primarily gospel artists.

[Kirk Franklin]

I'm trying to keep my eyes on the prize, trying to keep my focus on the things that really matter. I'm trying to tell the world about Jesus. I'm trying to tell the world that God so loved the world that he gave his only son. Whoever believes in him should not be perish and have everlasting life. That's where I'm at. That's where I'm at. Everything else is just noise. That's what I'm at.

[Justina Valentine]

I feel like you meet people where they are. You've been doing that since I've been. Since I was a little girl. Like, you know, I. I feel like there has been, like. When you. When you say you meet people where you are, it's always been said you meet people where. Where they are. Right? Christ and Christianity and church don't look the same for everybody. So if, like, a Glorilla can speak to us, the youth, you know, and you stamp it and we like, oh, we know. Kirk, Frank. This is who all of our mothers and grandmothers and aunts played growing up. And. And she. Because she is the bridge. You know what I mean? Like, she would be the bridge for that. And God uses everybody. Like, he can use anybody. He can use a bum on the street. He can use a homeless person. He can use, you know, anybody to lead, you know, so you can pay attention to. Bring you to, you know, to God and Jesus. I feel like it's not. It's not. Why is that frowned upon? You know what I mean?

[Kirk Franklin]

There's a text in. In. In scripture, there's this moment where the disciples were talking to Jesus about people that were not part of their crew. That was also using his name and trying to do things in his name. And they were upset about it because they were not part of the crew. And so they came to Jesus. They pull up like, yo, man, you need to go pull up on a boy name. They over there saying your name and trying to do in your name. And we need to, we really need to squash that. And, and, and that Jesus was like, yo, if they over there and they are still trying to do good things in my name, even though they're not part of our crew, I'm not going to squash that. It's because they are still telling people my name.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

And so I feel that it is the same that today that Christianity has for so long been a country club and you've had to have a membership, you've had to look a certain way. Like, like, like, like, like. Let me tell you one thing that's funny to me is that people always say to me, and even Tammy sometimes is like, you know, like, y' all look younger now than y' all did when y' all first started. Let me tell you what a lot of that was. We were assimilating to what the church. If you were young in church, you had to look old to be thought of as serious. Like, they didn't take you serious if you did not look a certain way. So you dressed. Oh, you had them long, you know, you had the long jackets, you know, the square toe gators, you know, and.

[Justina Valentine]

Tammy probably had the big lampshade hat.

[Kirk Franklin]

You know, first time I took it to COGIC convention, we were 25 years old. And now, you know, God bless Church of God in Christ. Love. Church of God in Christ. You know, but there's a certain aesthetic that sometimes you have on. Tell me 25 years old, got a big old hat on, gloves. And she said, she said. I felt like trick or treat, you know. You know, because we were trying to assimilate. You're trying to do all the things to be accepted as a young person. And so now, I mean, we just comfortable being who we are. And I just think that it is really, really important to just put people back on the focus of what matters. He's what matters.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's right. Now, what was the concept of Den of Kings? What inspired that?

[Kirk Franklin]

Bro, first of all, you gotta talk.

[Charlamagne tha God]

To the mic, bro.

[Kirk Franklin]

First of all, I am. Bro, bro, bro, bro.

[DJ Envy]

Don't get me in trouble. They're already gonna drag me for saying it once.

[Kirk Franklin]

That's the motif of the show right now. Bro, bro, bro. And it's A beautiful thing. Beautiful thing. But one thing that I'm very excited about is that I just had this idea that I've always been told that people enjoy the way I hold court during dinner. Like, when you go to dinner with me, we gonna chop, you know, we're gonna chop about politics, you know, we gonna talk about religion, sex, we're gonna talk about whatever and get it in. And so during my birthday, I came to Atlanta. Well, I went to Atlanta, had dinner with some of my good guy friends, and they were like, yo, bro, you need to turn this into something, you know, because I've had really great conversations. And so with that, I just thought about having dinner with black men and what that could look like in that conversation. And so the first episode, I didn't in Atlanta. Great food, chef, beautiful house. You know, you had Country Wayne, you had Lou, you had duvall, you had.

[Justina Valentine]

D.C. d.C. Young, fly.

[Kirk Franklin]

And it was an incredible moment. And the response has been crazy.

[DJ Envy]

I've been telling everybody I know to watch it.

[Kirk Franklin]

It's been amazing, hasn't it? Like, were you shocked at the response?

[Justina Valentine]

Yes. Especially with DC and how he gets deep in how Yawkman, I love that. Cause that's my brother.

[Kirk Franklin]

I know, I know.

[Justina Valentine]

You know what I mean?

[Kirk Franklin]

He loves you.

[Justina Valentine]

Yes.

[Kirk Franklin]

He loves you.

[Justina Valentine]

Yes, yes, yes. And, you know, even Country Wayne, you know, like, just, you gave them that safe space, that vulnerable place where they can. They can talk about things that they don't usually talk about and they talk about, but they don't go in depth with it. You know what I mean? Like, you provide that, and I love to see that.

[Kirk Franklin]

And it has been. I mean, the response has been overwhelming. Like, it has been so. So, you know, we've got another one on deck coming up soon, you know, and it's just, you know, dinner conversations with men, with black men. And I'm humbled. And I want to thank everybody that's been tuning in and watching it. And it's just been. It's just been an amazing.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Hey, what up, y' all? It's DJ Envy. The first few months of 2025 have been quite a year. Work deadlines, group chats you can't escape, and your weird cousin's latest overshare. It's a lot. But here's some good news. You don't have to bring that stress into your car. The all new Nissan Murano is your piece on wheels, thanks to its available features. Imagine sliding into the relaxing, massaging seats that feel like they were made to melt your tensions. Take in the skyline views that let sunlight pour in and watch as your day brightens. I have a special playlist that always gets me right. And with the Bose premium sound system, you too can vibe like you're at your own private concert. Plus, with your 64 color personalized lighting option, you can set the mood any way you want, be it romantic, chill or in a straight up do not disturb mode. Let the Nissan Murano be your oasis in a chaotic world because sometimes the greatest rush isn't rushing at all. Drive the all new Nissan Murano today.

[Justina Valentine]

Panoramic moonroof, ambient lighting, bows and massaging leather. Appointed seats are optional features the Medal.

[J.R. Martinez]

Of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.

[Kirk Franklin]

This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it.

[J.R. Martinez]

I'm J.R. martinez. I'm a U.S. army veteran myself and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and I Heart podcast from Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and stuff sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Joseph Reeves]

Show me how good it can get today God and show the rest of the world what we already know. It can't get. No better than being hella black, Hella Queer and hella Christian. My name is Joseph Reeves. I am the creator and host of Hella Black, Hella Queer, Hella Christian, a fully black, fully queer, fully human, fully divine podcast that explores society, culture and the intersections of faith and identity. Listen to hello Black, hello Queer, hello Christian to hear conversations about what it means to sound the way you look.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I think what I've had to make peace with is that every iteration of my voice is given to me by.

[Kirk Franklin]

God and I love it.

[Joseph Reeves]

Books that validated our identity.

[Kirk Franklin]

The library now for me is a.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Safe space as someone who is writing books that they're trying to take off.

[Joseph Reeves]

Of shelves and how we as black queer folks relate to our Christianity. Listen to Hella Black, Hella Queer, Hella Christian on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Rick Jervis]

I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Across the country, cops called this Taser the revolution.

[Rick Jervis]

But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

[Kirk Franklin]

Cops believed everything that Taser told them.

[Rick Jervis]

From Lava for good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute season one, Taser Incorporated.

[Katherine Townsend]

I get right back there and it's bad.

[J.R. Martinez]

It's really, really, really bad.

[Rick Jervis]

Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2 and 3 on May 21 and episodes 4, 5 and 6 on June 4 ad free at Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Justina Valentine]

And it's like men's therapy. It's like watching a men's therapy session.

[Kirk Franklin]

It's crazy.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[DJ Envy]

Is each episode about fatherhood is gonna.

[Kirk Franklin]

Be different things that men different conversations. Next one is about being a boss.

[DJ Envy]

Okay.

[Kirk Franklin]

And you know we are gonna have so many conversations that are just really, just kind of peeling back and just having a really, really, really great conversation. You gonna pull up on one? Of course.

[Justina Valentine]

Don't play whenever you need to know.

[DJ Envy]

I think envy and charlamagne. I think y' all would be so amazing in the sit downs. Like it would be.

[Kirk Franklin]

It'd be fire.

[DJ Envy]

Because it's like a real conversation. Non judgmental as well.

[Kirk Franklin]

Non judgmental. Non judgmental. And I want everybody to feel safe. And I try to lead with vulnerability and transparency myself. So I try to create the environment that makes you feel safe and comfortable.

[Justina Valentine]

Will there ever be a episode with you and your baby boy, your son?

[Kirk Franklin]

Hmm. It's not that I haven't thought about it. It's because it's still a work in progress.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

I would want there to be real healing in his life before there is anything that that puts a spotlight that could even be more damaging.

[Justina Valentine]

Got it to his process.

[Kirk Franklin]

You know, I want him whole.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

I don't give a heck about ratings. You know, I was gonna say something else, but I just want him whole. And so whatever is gonna be for his best healing. And a lot of times that that happens when the cameras are holding.

[Charlamagne tha God]

What's your relationship now?

[Kirk Franklin]

It's. It's still work. It's it, it, it's, it still work. Now the beautiful thing that has happened is, you know, I ran into my biological father after all these years, and here's what's the most incredible thing about God. Everything that my oldest son needs, that's his profession.

[Justina Valentine]

Your dad's profession. Wow.

[Kirk Franklin]

Biological father's profession. And I think you can unpack that. Yeah, right, right. Everything that my oldest needs. So my biological has come in because that's his grandson. So he has a personal interest in, in, in, in, in in him being whole. And it's been amazing. It's been. Well, it's been amazing to watch, but it's still a process.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And how was that relationship with your biology? How.

[Kirk Franklin]

Let me say this. He's an amazing man. He's an amazing.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I love that you can say that.

[Kirk Franklin]

Oh, he's an amazing man. But it is more me. It's more because I wasn't looking for a father. He wasn't looking for a son. I mean, you know, I mean, we weren't looking. Remember? I thought I knew who my father was and he died of cancer back in 17. So now it's me. Like, when you live your life so long on your own, it's almost like a. It's almost like a woman who has been single for a long time. And if the guy said, don't get that door, and you kinda like what? You know, you know, you've got to kind of process. Okay, I ain't got to get my door no more. What does that look? You know, it's something like, oh, what does that look like?

[DJ Envy]

No, I do understand.

[Justina Valentine]

She don't have a man.

[DJ Envy]

No. But even, first of all, she understands.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's what I said.

[DJ Envy]

Even before the single thing, I was talking more about you, your dad, and you not feeling like you were missing out on anything. Kind of sort of. I'm skipping past. It's a liar.

[Kirk Franklin]

It's so good how you did that.

[Justina Valentine]

God loves the truth. And I'm letting you. She don't have a man. She don't have the best relationship with her dad. So she love you.

[Kirk Franklin]

Would you like me, a man or dad? I don't. I'm not trying to be. How old are you? How old?

[DJ Envy]

I'm 33.

[Kirk Franklin]

Okay. I'm 55. So. So a man or dad. If I find anyone, it may be a zad.

[Justina Valentine]

I mean, you might need a zan.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But she doesn't have necessarily the best relationship with her father as well. So how did you get to the point where you can have that relationship. I mean, she texts happy Father's Day, but she doesn't have that relationship.

[DJ Envy]

That's not true. Me and my dad have built a relationship, but I met him at 14. But to your point, because I was so full with what I had. I had my stepdad, my mom, my grandmother. I didn't know until, like, still now, I don't. Like, I be forgetting his Father's Day. And it's no shade to him. It's just I've always been full to the point where I wasn't looking for it. So when he got introduced into my life, I was like, oh, okay, so this is my dad. I gotta call him. I gotta talk to him. I gotta. And it don't always be that all the time. It's not a natural thing for me to do. So you're the first person I ever heard explain it where it made sense to me. Of, like, you just weren't looking for it because you didn't know you needed it.

[Kirk Franklin]

And mom wasn't that I was full. Mom was that I was numb.

[DJ Envy]

Oh, maybe I was numb.

[Kirk Franklin]

Maybe. So, you know, and I don't know, like, I'm not a professional, but. But I do know that sometimes you do learn how to live with limps.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

You learn how to live with limbs to the point that you forget is broken, you know? And I think that because of where we come from as people of color, we've had to live so much of our lives as people, live with. With. With limps, as people, just because of. Just. Just. Just the deconstruction of our homes and families and. And backgrounds that a lot of times we don't even know often what healthy is.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

It's because we've had to just live. Okay. We've never really lived well, we just live. Okay.

[DJ Envy]

Have you had those moments with your biological dad where, like, y' all are talking or y' all in the midst of something and you're like, oh, man. Like, I feel it. This is what there were. This is what was missing at some point. Or I could have used this at some point. Have you had that?

[Kirk Franklin]

No, no, no. I. I have lived so much with deficiencies that I'm still just trying to out.

[Justina Valentine]

Figure.

[Kirk Franklin]

Figure out. So. So a lot of times if. If I'm around him, I'm just trying to figure out how to be. Sometimes I'm. Sometimes I'm even sitting there having to just breathe just to keep my anxiety, but, you know, because it's so far. Yeah, it's so foreign. And I'm not, you know, I'm not proud of these things.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

But I'm not going to get up here and cap with y' all, like, you know, and give y' all the. The, you know, the little house on the prayer fairy tale. Oh, man. God has blessed us and. And we're all together now. It's like, my guy. I'm still trying to figure life out. It's a new addition that I'm still trying to figure out the space for it.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Do you regret what you've done in gospel music because it took so much time away from your family?

[Kirk Franklin]

That's an incredible question. I think that any man, in my humble opinion, that is ambitious and driven will always look back and have respect. Regrets on how the people around them have had to suffer because of that.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Because you, yeah, your family suffered, but you brought joy to people. You probably saved a million and one lives with your music and your dance and the word. But you might have hurt a couple in the family because you weren't there. So how does that balance out? And, you know, as a father, that works a lot. I feel that sometimes it's like, damn, should I be home during this time? But I gotta pay bills.

[DJ Envy]

See Dennis Kings. Cause y' all talked about this on the show.

[Kirk Franklin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ooh, boy. You know, you have many regrets. You have many regrets and you have confusion. It's because it's almost like if you were not driven, if you were not a dog, if you didn't have that attitude, then you wouldn't have been what you are. But you also know that many around you, whether it's your wife or your kids, that they've suffered a lot, that they've gone through a lot, because it comes with a heavy price. And I think that for me, mine also has another level of kind of dichotomy, is because you also don't want to. You don't want their kids faith to be. I don't want having to do with Jesus because Jesus was the dude that kept my daddy away. So I'm trying. You know, you've also tried to have that nuanced space in that, too. Now, the beauty of my children, it's their mother. My. My. My children are. Are. Are great because of their mama. Tammy. Tammy has. Tammy is like. She just that Midas touch, you know, she. But then her mama was that Tammy's mama's dad. Tammy's mama's like that with me, you know, just that. That Midas touch. And she knew I Didn't have a mama. So bam. Just a modest touch. But, yeah, you live with a lot of regret. You live with a lot of guilt. You live with a lot of questions. You live with that internal war of. Of. Of missing things and. And wondering what it would. What. What it would have been more like for you to be at home. But then at the same time, you also. That dude that wakes up in the middle of the night with dreams and ideas and ambitions and songs, you know, like, I wake up in the middle with songs, and, you know, I'm at a basketball game, and I got to step outside to put something in my phone because. A song. Because if that song don't work, then I can't pay for that school, and I can't pay for that college. I can't pay for that new car you want after you graduate. It's like, you know, there's that tension. It's because people are blessed by your sacrifice, but then they're also hurt by your sacrifice. Yeah. And I don't know all the answers. I just try to show up and be honest.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Gotcha.

[DJ Envy]

What's your mentorship to other people look like these days? Because I know Denny Kings. I felt like when I was watching it, it was that, like, you were mentoring these men, but they just came together randomly. Do you have, like, a set group of people that you're mentoring, and do you take the time to do that?

[Kirk Franklin]

Maybe mentoring right now in these days and times does look more like that. Maybe it doesn't look as traditional.

[DJ Envy]

Okay.

[Kirk Franklin]

You know, it's. It's. I don't know.

[DJ Envy]

It's.

[Kirk Franklin]

I just tried. Whenever I try to show up, wherever I am, I'm always trying to be the book that people need to read. And so whatever that looks like I'm always available to do may not always look in the traditional form. It's because sometimes in traditional forms, like, I remember doing a youth camp. I did a youth music camp for the hood back a few years ago, and it just didn't go well. And the reason why is because what I noticed is that if Steph Curry does a camp, if Steph Curry does a basketball camp, and you can figure you probably can do this. Envy. Kids that come to a basketball camp, they're not looking for Steph Curry to get them in the NBA because they know that it's still a process. They know a coach and a team. So Curry can do a basketball camp and show love, give out some treats, whatever. But a daddy is not pulling him to the side going, yo, man, you think you could talk to a team from a boy where when I do a music camp, demo tapes, and everybody, you know, it's like they see my world more accessible. So I'm not getting a chance to really mentor. I got a whole bunch of people just kind of want to be put on.

[Justina Valentine]

Right, right.

[Kirk Franklin]

And so that didn't go well for me. I want to be able to plant seeds and help you, but I'm not here trying to put you on. Yeah.

[Justina Valentine]

And so what I love, I love that you said social media is not evil. You know, it's. It's broken people that use it as a tool of evil. Yeah, Right. So does commentary on social media affect you at all?

[Kirk Franklin]

Yeah, it can. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think anybody be lying if they stay. And I think that we all try to do our social media fast and we try to pull back, you know, like after the B2 wars, I was like, I'm not reading nothing. I don't want to read nothing. I won't have it. Yeah. I want nothing. You know, and then, you know, a few days later, you find yourself and look at him.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

Man. Pleased about Jesus. Yeah. You know, so, you know, yeah, you, you, you, you find that tension and you try to do the best. I really believe y' all. And I know y' all gotta wrap me up real soon, man. I gotta believe. I believe that everything that we discuss can be summarized in these major points of. Humans have to be more kind.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

To humans that we. We. Here's the illustration before I go, right? If you are on an island, and that island is now slowly sinking into the water, and the only way off that island to the other piece of bigger land is this rope, this tightrope. And everybody has to walk across that tightrope. Now why, mind you, they're walking over water that is shark infested, right? So if you fall off that tightrope, but that's the only way to get off this island is this tightrope. Everybody that is getting on that tightrope, if you're sitting there standing there watching them because you know your turn is coming up next, you're not going to be sitting there criticizing how they're getting off on that tight. You're not going to be going, look at her feet, look at the feet. I didn't. Walking on it, right? Look, look at that. You're not doing it because you know what? You're not doing that because you know you next. So you sitting there going, please make. Oh, God, please let her make it, please. She made it. She made. Because that gives you hope that you can make it.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

That's what life is. Sinking. And we're trying to get off, and there's only way. There's only one way. And. But we're criticizing each other while we're trying to get off. That's the only way. There's no boat. There's nothing. The only way off the sinking island is this thin, difficult way. We should be praying people make it instead of complaining how they walk it. Because you next. And the church said amen.

[Justina Valentine]

Dang. Well, dang. I was. Let me do one more question. How did you. Listen, you got some of the strongest pipes coming up out of your choirs. Like, I'm talking about, like, everybody was like, a lead singer.

[Kirk Franklin]

Like, everybody.

[Justina Valentine]

How did you find these people?

[Kirk Franklin]

That's how I do it.

[Justina Valentine]

That's how you do it.

[Kirk Franklin]

I do it is I look for lead singers individually as I go after artists.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

Is. I look at people that I see in artist. In them. Come rock with me. And that's what I do. And that's why they're so amazing.

[Justina Valentine]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

Yeah. So. But that's dope that you caught that.

[Justina Valentine]

Since I was little, I'm like, yo, how everybody can not just sing, but sing. Everybody can sing. Like, he could have had, like, everybody do their own solo.

[Kirk Franklin]

Yeah.

[Justina Valentine]

Crazy, man. No, no, no.

[Kirk Franklin]

Thank you for that.

[Justina Valentine]

But I want to say I love you so much. You. I've been inspired since I was, like, just so young. Just those long mornings my mother popped your CDs. And for every CD we had, you know, I grew up on you dope, and I love you, and I'm so happy that I got to meet you.

[Kirk Franklin]

Wow.

[Justina Valentine]

You know, this is so crazy.

[Charlamagne tha God]

This is the first time you met him? Because he said.

[DJ Envy]

Second time.

[Justina Valentine]

I met him before I met him.

[Charlamagne tha God]

He just walk.

[Kirk Franklin]

Right.

[DJ Envy]

But it is kind of crazy, me and Kirk Franklin, because you've been in our house. Households are literally.

[Justina Valentine]

I know my house.

[DJ Envy]

I know that. Like, everything. Yeah. My whole life. So meeting you was just like. So I'm happy it's Kirk Franklin. Like. Okay.

[Justina Valentine]

And it is your presence, though. So I thank you so much just for all of your work and everything that you. That you've done, you've contributed to just to my household and my. And to gospel, the word of God, everything. Thank you.

[Kirk Franklin]

That's kind of you.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah.

[Kirk Franklin]

Thank you.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, Denna Kings, you could check it out on YouTube. New single. Do It Again. We're about to play that.

[Kirk Franklin]

Do it Again.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And we have to leave with a prayer.

[Kirk Franklin]

What's wrong with you?

[DJ Envy]

No, I was like bro to pray for you. First of all, he prayed for me at the media room as well, too. Okay. I am always covered in prayer. Thank you. All right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You always covering your wig, too.

[DJ Envy]

But you see, Shay, you. I need you to pray for me.

[Justina Valentine]

It's not even a wig.

[DJ Envy]

Exactly.

[Justina Valentine]

She don't wear wigs no more. Because they talked about them. So many didn't talk them right off.

[Kirk Franklin]

Are we including praying for a zaddy or are we not?

[Charlamagne tha God]

She needs a zaddy, too.

[DJ Envy]

If you allowed to say that to God, go ahead. I can't. I feel like I can't say it.

[Kirk Franklin]

I'm being funny. I'm being funny. Man. Man. Father. Wow, Man. Thank you so much that you are just the most kindest, most patient, creative of them all. Thank you, Lord, that you constantly just forgive us when we mess up and that you are always wanting us to win, because when we win, it makes you look great. Father, we know that the world is crazy. And Father, I want to thank you for these three soldiers, for the four soldiers and how they are doing their best to try to plant seeds of goodness in the earth. Just watch over the families, watch over their lives. If we've ever needed you before, we need you in the world now. Please break down the walls of religion so that we can be able to see the light of your son. And I'm talking about your son, S O N. And Father, we want him to be glorified in our lives. We are far from perfect. Messed up. And we love the fact that you take the lemons and make lemonade in our lives every day. Thank you for not giving up on us. We want to make you proud, want to make you happy. In your name, Jesus. Amen.

[Justina Valentine]

Amen.

[Charlamagne tha God]

All right, well, there you have it. It's Kirk Franklin. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.

[Justina Valentine]

Wake that ass up early in the morning.

[Kirk Franklin]

The Breakfast.

[J.R. Martinez]

The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, the unexpected, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.

[Kirk Franklin]

This medal is for the men who went down that day.

[J.R. Martinez]

On Medal of Honor Stories of courage, you'll hear about these heroes and what their stories tell us about the nature of bravery. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jeff Perelman]

I'm Jeff Perelman. And I'm Rick Jervis. We're journalists and hosts of the Podcast Finding Sexy Sweat at an internship in 1993, we roomed with Reggie Payne, aspiring reporter and rapper who went by Sexy Sweat a couple years ago. We set out to find him, but in 2020, Reggie fell into a coma after police pinned him down and he never woke up.

[DJ Envy]

But then I see my son's not moving.

[Jeff Perelman]

So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own. Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kirk Franklin]

Our iHeartradio Music Festival, presented by Capital One, is coming back to Las Vegas Vegas, September 19th and 20th, streaming live only on Hulu. Ladies and gentlemen, Brian Adams, Ed Sheeran, Fade Chlorilla, Jelly Roll, Sean Fogarty, Lil Wayne Wayne, LL Cool J, Mariah Carey, Maroon 5, Sammy Hagar, Tate McRae, the Offspring, Tim McGraw. Tickets are on sale now at AXS.com get your tickets today AXS.com over the.

[Katherine Townsend]

Years of making my true crime podcast Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community.

[Kirk Franklin]

I was calling about the murder of my husband. The murderer is still out there.

[Katherine Townsend]

Each week I investigate a new case. If there is a case we should Hear about, call 678-744-6145. Listen to Helen Gone Murderline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[DJ Envy]

This is an I Heart podcast.