INTERVIEW: Laura Coates Talks American Legal System, Diddy Trial, Tory Lanez, 'Jeopardy!' Hosting Snub +More

Summary

The Breakfast Club – Laura Coates Talks American Legal System, Diddy Trial, Tory Lanez, ‘Jeopardy!’ Hosting Snub + More August 20, 2025 | Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God | Guest: Laura Coates (CNN anchor, former federal prosecutor)

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, The Breakfast Club welcomes Laura Coates, prominent CNN anchor, legal analyst, author, and former federal prosecutor. The conversation delves into major topics in the American legal system, Laura’s journey from prosecution to broadcasting, high-profile cases like Diddy and Tory Lanez, the complexities of modern media, the impact of race on legal proceedings, as well as Laura’s experience being passed over for the Jeopardy! hosting gig. Throughout, Laura maintains her trademark candor and wit, offering insightful and accessible breakdowns of complex issues.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Laura Coates’ Routine, Family, and Mindset

• Early Starts & Family Life: Laura shares her atypical sleep patterns due to late-night broadcasting and her role as a mother.
  • “I go off at midnight. I go to bed probably by 2am, half by 6… I have babies. I call them baby ‘cause that’s why I have baby weight. So, it’s 11 and 12 year olds.” (02:44)
• Balancing Motherhood & Career: She puts great purpose in being present for her children, even involving her daughter as a “producer” on her show. (04:13)

Legal System, Communication, and Social Impact

• Explaining Law Simply: Laura emphasizes the importance of demystifying the law for the public.
  • “You don’t understand something unless you can explain it to a child… There’s an elitism with vocabulary where people want to show they're smart to distance themselves from you.” (09:14)
  • She stresses the dangers of public disengagement: “The longer people feel like, well, I don’t get it… I don’t care about that. It’s rigged… That was the point: they want people to not participate.” (09:54)
• Teaching Her Children: The challenges of explaining societal realities to kids, like National Guard deployments or police presence.
  • “The hardest question to answer…especially when you have your babies looking at you, why?” (11:06)

The American Legal System’s Complexities

• Systemic Fairness: The impact of media and social perceptions (“Law & Order effect”).
  • “The bane of my existence in trial was Law and Order, that damn dun dun sound... People have an expectation about the ability to meet your burden of proof.” (15:14)
• Misinformation & Media: Public often conflates media narratives (“armchair attorneys”) with reality, making true justice and fairness even harder to achieve. (16:15)

High Profile Legal Cases

Diddy Trial (RICO/Violence Charges)

• Overcharging & Public Perception: Laura candidly addresses the Diddy case, expressing concern over prosecutorial discretion and the court of public opinion.
  • “One thing that was really bothering me about that trial… Is that the new standard to bring RICO for that type of case?” (18:55)
• Race & Prosecution: The visual and practical impact of race within the prosecution team and among jurors.
  • “Race had a very big part in the assessment of this trial in the court of public opinion because people thought, why this particular person? Is it because this is a Black man who’s achieved a certain level of income?” (21:19)
• Sentencing & Fairness:
  • “I’d be surprised if [Diddy] went beyond two or three years, with one year being credited to him... sentencing guidelines have a chart... the prosecution, though, they want their bone and their dogs about it…” (26:43)
  • On defense strategy: “Try shutting up a lawyer. That’s number one... they want the impression that this is such a minor offense that he should be able to [play Madison Square Garden].” (31:42)

Tory Lanez Case

• Appeals Process: Laura highlights the importance of exhausting all legal avenues post-conviction.
  • “You have to exhaust every avenue you possibly can… Even though people think the conviction is the end of the story, until you get home, really, you’re fighting from the time you’re convicted to the time that you actually get out.” (28:38)

Race, Rights, and American History

• Erosion of Rights: Laura warns about voting rights and Fourth Amendment protections.
  • “Number one, voting... If your health fails, nothing else matters. You know, if voting goes away, almost nothing else you want to argue about is important enough to counteract that… Don’t sleep on the Fourth Amendment.” (54:53)
• Legal Bias & Social Injustice: She ties her passion for prosecution to formative stories like that of Kemba Smith, whose harsh sentencing reflected a failure of empathy and systemic bias. (05:56)

Laura’s Journey in Law & Broadcasting

• Transition from DOJ to Media:

  • She recounts the emotional turning point when her husband installed a car camera for protection against police stops:
    • “My husband... had tears in his eyes... ‘If I’m ever stopped by police, I want you to know what really happened.’... I needed to make a change because I have this muzzle on in DOj. As a prosecutor, you can’t speak press, you can’t inform people… I love them so much, I have to save their lives. And the only way I knew how was to use my mind as a weapon and as a tool.” (42:13)

• Finding Her Voice & Career ‘Remember Whens’:

  • On humble beginnings: “I had a Panera bread in my neighborhood... I was nursing my daughter still…[I was] posting up in a Panera bread saying to myself, how do I go from I want to speak truth to power… And I just sat there, day in, day out, writing…” (44:14)
  • “I make them sign it [new deal] in Panera… I remember with my daughter nursing, not knowing what the hell I was doing.” (47:40)

• Media Cliques, Authenticity, and Representation:

  • “The clicks, they’re real... I love my own circle... they are full of remember whens. But the clicks can sometimes operate to make you think that where you are is the top. And they want you to compare and think, well, if you’re not doing what you’re doing, then you’re doing nothing… I didn’t come into it because I wanted to be famous... I came into it because it was a love letter to my family. So I’m not gonna rip it up just to have a follower.” (48:06, 52:27)

On Jeopardy! Hosting Snub & Representation in Media

• Feelings on Not Being Considered:

  • “I thought it was…machinations behind the scenes where people decide who their heroes and celebrities ought to be and merit didn’t matter…Yeah, who I am is a black woman. So if it’s me, then it was that. But I was always very resentful of it, and I still am because I think it’d be much easier to have a job where the answers are already in front of me like on Jeopardy!” (59:04)
  • The lesson: “I never forget…the lesson that it wasn’t Alex Trebek’s call…told me I have to examine power differently…if my name’s on something, it belongs to me…” (59:40)

• On Being “Ratchet Law Coach”:

  • On authenticity: “The best advice I ever got was from Steve Harvey… ‘I am the same person no matter where you see me, period.’ I hope that’s me—just maybe a little bit different outfit, different hair… But every circumstance does not call for my ratchetness... Some really do and sometimes I’m like, oh you think this is not—let me take my earrings off a second. Hold on…” (65:32, 66:12)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Prosecutorial Responsibility:
  “You have this responsibility. It's overwhelming. You're human, you're flawed. There's no resources that are going to be able to provide for all that you have to do. And yet you have someone's life in your hand.” – Laura Coates (07:39)

• On the Law & Community Engagement:
  “There's an elitism about the law that we see right now in real terms are hurting the nation because the more people are like…‘I don't get it, nevermind, whatever,’ then you don't check in and you're not actually maintaining the system and you become a part of your own demise.” – Laura Coates (09:51)

• On Race & Judicial Fairness:
  “Race had a very big part in the assessment of this trial in the court of public opinion… but there is always going to be with the messenger for a jury how condescending you might appear, how judgmental you might come across. And there were certainly elements where I found myself wondering… how did that read?” – Laura Coates (21:19)

• On Career Grit:
  “Try staying [at the top]… There are people who will every day try. I sign every new deal…in Panera. So I’m sitting there looking and going, I remember with my daughter nursing, not knowing what the hell I was doing… And that’s how I remember and keep grounded because I hope I will never be the person who’s more comfortable in the upper echelons than walking through my own neighborhood.” – Laura Coates (47:40)

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Timestamps – Important Segments

• 02:44 Laura’s morning routine, balancing motherhood and work
• 05:26 How Laura’s upbringing and the Kemba Smith case inspired her legal career
• 09:14 On explaining law to the public; dangers of elitism in legal language
• 15:14 The “Law & Order Effect” and media’s influence on legal expectations
• 18:55 Diddy trial: prosecutorial discretion, RICO charges, and race
• 28:38 The Tory Lanez case: why appealing and exhausting legal options matters
• 42:13 Transition from prosecutor to media, inspired by her husband’s fears
• 54:53 Rights under threat: voting rights and the Fourth Amendment
• 59:04 On being passed over for the Jeopardy! host role
• 65:32 Laura on being the same on and off camera; embracing “Ratchet Law Coach”

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Closing Thoughts

This episode weaves courtrooms, racial injustice, celebrity trials, parenting, and career pivots into a sharp, entertaining, and necessary conversation. Laura Coates’s clear, passionate explanations bridge the gap between complicated legal realities and everyday experience, while her personal stories ground the discussion in authenticity and resilience.

Listeners come away not only learning about high-profile cases but also reflecting on how law intersects with family, identity, and the ongoing fight for justice and transparency in America.

Transcript

[Laura Coates]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Carlos Miller]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Unidentified Male Caller]

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

[America's Crime Lab Narrator]

On the new podcast America's Crime Lab. Every case has a story to tell and the DNA holds. That's the truth.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He never thought he was going to get caught and I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[Laura Coates]

This technology's already solving so many cases.

[America's Crime Lab Narrator]

Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hunter]

I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Join me every weekday as I share bite sized stories of missing and murdered black women and girls in America. Stories like Erica Hunt, a young mother van vanished without a trace after a family gathering on 4th of July weekend 2016. No goodbyes, no clues, just gone. Listen to Hunting for Answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network. IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Laura Coates]

Hold up.

[DJ Envy]

Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club.

[Laura Coates]

Y' all finish or y' all done?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Morning everybody. It's tv jnv.

[Laura Coates]

Jess.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Hilarious Charlamagne the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. Lauren Larose is here as well and we got a special guest in the building.

[DJ Envy]

Yes, indeed.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We have Laura Coates.

[DJ Envy]

Welcome.

[Laura Coates]

Hey, thank you. Happy to be here, y'. All. Thank you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Welcome, welcome.

[DJ Envy]

What time do you wake up, Laura? What? You don't go off at midnight, right?

[Laura Coates]

I go off at midnight. I go to bed probably by 2am, half by 6.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Wow, nice.

[Laura Coates]

I have babies. I call them baby. Cause that's why I have baby weight. So it's 11 and 12 year olds.

[DJ Envy]

Okay.

[Laura Coates]

Therefore, I'm up with them, getting them ready or trying to. Or, you know, pit limit, like an old person trying to figure out how to start my day. But I can't sleep long any longer. I can't. It just ended because.

[DJ Envy]

Is it because your brain is always wired to be a part of, like, the news cycle?

[Laura Coates]

I'm constantly thinking, like, last night, I think I got an hour and a half of sleep because my mind could not shut. You couldn't. You can't really come down because you. For me, I'm always navigating minefields. You all know how it is. And so when you're constantly sort of being your own champion, being a businesswoman, navigating minefields, then obviously trying to educate and inform, your mind can't shut off very well. And so I'm always battling with how to do my go to bed routine. I mean, I'll do like the bath, I'll watch some Golden Girls, but it still takes some time.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You take naps at least?

[Laura Coates]

I do. No, I feel like naps is what keeps me alive. Oh, my God. If you told me right now you have an hour, I'd be knocked out right now. Like, I can do that quick.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm like, wait, so I could fall asleep immediately?

[Laura Coates]

Yes.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They wake back up and ready to go.

[Laura Coates]

I have not seen one of those safety things on the plane in like, years. Damn.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

You're asleep before they even do that.

[Laura Coates]

I haven't had a pretzel in a decade. No Sprite. With or without ice? Doesn't matter. I just. I can't have it. I can't help it. I do it.

[Unidentified Female Caller]

How you turn it off and on with your kids, though? Cause, like, sometimes they just want mom that's just about to chill. We want to go to the beach, whatever.

[Laura Coates]

My kids don't care at all about the work. For me, I'm very intentional because, look, I. I want. I wanted to be a mom. I really wanted to be a mother. And I wanted to be their mother in particular. And so I have to be present. And really, if you don't sort of leave work when I'M not working. My mind might be racing, but if I'm with my babies or with my man, that's it. Like, I'm with them. That's all there is to it. And so they try to come with me a lot, though. That's how I try to incorporate. My daughter comes every Friday night to the show and becomes my producer. She's 11. She's taller than me. Now, my son, he plays basketball, and so he's always. I'm always trying to be with him when he's on the.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Your daughter's 11 and taller than you?

[Laura Coates]

I'm five' three and a half.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay, I was asking.

[Laura Coates]

11. He's five.

[DJ Envy]

Oh, wow, wow, wow.

[Laura Coates]

My. My nickname as a kid was Baby Huey. I'm. I'm the tallest.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Yeah, that ain't even that. Baby girl.

[Laura Coates]

Baby Huey. So I had to have a strong ego to counteract that because My mom is 4 11. My dad's 5 4. And they're how you get so big. And I'm like, I'm five, three and a half. But that half means something. The half.

[DJ Envy]

So you used to be a federal prosecutor, right?

[Laura Coates]

I did.

[DJ Envy]

I want to go back from the beginning. You went to college for law, clearly.

[Laura Coates]

Yep.

[DJ Envy]

Okay. What school?

[Laura Coates]

I went to Princeton for undergrad. I'm from Minnesota. I went back to Minnesota for law school. I didn't think I was going to do. Be a prosecutor, honestly. I thought that I was going to go into the law. And I thought, you know, at the time, you think, oh, corporate law. And that's some kind of nebulous term or whatever that means, but. But really, I knew I was gonna become in criminal law and probably a prosecutor. When the whole Kemba Smith story came out back in. It was like the 90s. Emerge magazine. Remember that?

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Yeah.

[Laura Coates]

And she was a young black woman from Virginia who had met the wrong man, had gotten accused. Accused of being a drug mule. Right, right. And my mom brought home the magazine. There's three of us. And she's like, girls, I want you to read this as a cautionary tale. And I think what she wanted as a mom was for me to see, like, the idea of what type of man to get involved with.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Explain the story of what happened to Kim by the time she got. So people understand the whole thing. I was there, so I know.

[Laura Coates]

Oh, were you? Mm. Wow. So Kendra's spirits. There you go.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That was 47 years old.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Damn.

[Laura Coates]

Look. Wow. I'm 45.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

You know, she do not like telling how old she is.

[Unidentified Female Caller]

Who.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Don'T Misgender me, man.

[Laura Coates]

I'm sorry.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Don't misgender me.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

I'm sorry. You know, they be picking on me, so I be picking on them back.

[Laura Coates]

I taught the Amazon thing, so I was here. Okay, thank you. I saw it. I saw it. So I understand. Well, Kemba. So she was a college girl. The world was her oyster. Long story short, she meets a man who is manipulative and convinces her to get involved in crime. She doesn't think she's getting involved in crime. She thinks she's just kind of carrying something for someone and doing what she thinks she's supposed to be doing, but it wasn't. And while he got sort of a slap on the wrist, she got the book thrown at her. She became the example of, you know, what goes wrong in this sort of crazy, mischievous black woman coming into this town, and she deserves everything she gets.

[DJ Envy]

What color was the man I needed?

[Laura Coates]

Black.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, black. Virginia's a Commonwealth state. They kind of make up their rules, laws and regulations.

[DJ Envy]

When you say slap on the wrist for him, how much time did he get?

[Laura Coates]

I don't think he got much time at all. I think he got like. I mean, she was in there for years. And the sad thing was, of course, you know, as black women, as black people, as young women, as young people, we can't make a mistake. You know, you don't get the idea of. I understand. I see myself in you. Therefore, let me try to get you on the straight and narrow yet again and give you a chance again at life. So my mom sent the article to us and showed us her, I think, role for us was, listen, this is the tale of what not to do in terms of the type people you associate yourself with. But my take on it was, this was a prosecutorial error. This was somebody who refused to see themselves in another human being. And therefore, this young woman was gonna serve life or not life, but serve her life at that time with that burden on her back. And so when I realized in law school what I wanted to do, I had her in mind. I've met her since and talked to her about this, and we've shared some tears about what it's like to really be a prosecutor, because you really. You have this responsibility. It's overwhelming. You're human, you're flawed. There's no resources that are going to be able to provide for all that you have to do. And yet you have someone's life in your hand. Their entire life, not just their life, but people in the courtroom, their kids who were there Their loved ones, their parents who were there. And it was a time, it wore on me, even though I thought what I was doing and I still believe was the right thing.

[DJ Envy]

Wow.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

She got 24 years.

[Laura Coates]

She was let out.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

She was let out. She only did six, but she did. She got 24 years.

[DJ Envy]

So as a former federal prosecutor, how do you balance explaining the law for everyday viewers without losing the complexity of what law is?

[Laura Coates]

I think you don't understand something unless you can explain it to a child. Right. I mean, there's a phrase and when I was in trials, and I did a lot of trials, it was Never use a $20 word when a quarter word will do. Right. You want to talk to people and meet them where they are. Not because they know less intellectually or they're not as smart, but because you. And I would never sit here and say the door was ajar, the door was open, like I gave chase. You mean you ran somewhere because you want people to understand what's happening. And I think there's an elitism with vocabulary where people want to show that they're smart to distance themselves from you, to make sure you, you see them above you and that they can no longer participate in the system. And the longer people feel like, well, I, I don't get it. So therefore I hands off, their reflex is, well, I don't care about that. I don't, it's, it's, it's rigged. It's a whole game of the system. That was the point. They want people to not participate, they want people not to understand. And we have an elitism about the law that we see right now in real terms are hurting the nation because the more people are like politics. I don't get, I don't get that. What's posse coma. What? I don't get it, nevermind, whatever. Then you don't check in and you're not actually maintaining the system and you become a part of your own demise. And so for me, it was easy to make sure that, look, if I want to understand something, I have to really distill it down so that I can explain it in a two minute elevator, in a 30 second clip down the street, wherever I am to my kids, because they're also who's watching me. And when I was, during the whole Covid, during the pandemic, I had a studio in my home and I remember I was covering the George Floyd murder trial, which I'm clear, not the George Floyd trial, that's Derek Chauvin trial, the George Floyd murder trial. And my kids were on the floor, literally, because it was homeschool. Don't get me started. They're sitting there watching me explain something. And the why. The why was always the hardest question. Like, I could explain the Constitution, I can recite the amendments, I can explain the different case law. But the hardest question to answer, especially when you have your babies looking at you, why?

[DJ Envy]

You know who told me that? Larry King.

[Laura Coates]

Really?

[DJ Envy]

Larry King said, God bless the dead. Larry King said. He said, Charlemagne. The toughest question you can ask a person is why?

[Laura Coates]

Why? Because.

[DJ Envy]

Because people really don't ever think about the why. Usually they have their talking points or they have their things that they've been taught, but they've never actually thought about the why of something.

[Laura Coates]

And it makes you think ahead in the future and explain the past simultaneously. Because the why requires you to explain the way it was, how you've let it be, and also how you could change it. Because in that one three letter word, you're being challenged. It's almost like the real question is, why did you let that happen? Or why is it still that way? Or why haven't we changed it? And you have to think about all those things. And you know, one of the things, I love my job, what I'm doing is because for me, I would have talked anyway, right? I would have tried to explain anyway. I have a real desire to democratize information because I can't stand elitism and I can't stand people feeling like they don't have a voice because someone took it away. But that why question, man, when it comes to my kids, like my son the other day asked me a question about why the National Guard was there, kids were driving by, why and why there? I thought, this is gonna take a lot to unload. But, you know, I try not to shy away from my kids when they ask a question, because when they're asking it, they're ready to receive the information. Even though sometimes, you know, it breaks my heart, I think of my kids childhood, whether this is right or wrong, you guys, I think of it like a museum, right? And there are museum floors and wings. And I'm navigating one area. I'm like, okay, it's time to go to this wing. And all of a sudden something happens. And I'm on the third floor trying to explain the exhibit in front of me, trying to make sure they realize what to do or what not to do. And I'm not always prepared in those moments. And so I just try to be very confessional about what I do and do not know and try to find answers.

[DJ Envy]

So what is the why to why the National Guard is there? Because I'm sure there's a letter of a law, letter of a law, letter of the law answer. Yeah, but what's the why?

[Laura Coates]

Well, the why they're saying they're there is because of the crime rate in D.C. and the only way they believe they can change it is to have the presence of the National Guard to try to deter crime or to supplement what the cops are doing. What the other reason is legally is that they have the ability to do so in Washington D.C. it's not a, it's not a state, it's not a territory. And the President of the United States has a lot, a lot, a lot of power there. So much so that other governors in other states are thinking to themselves, well, how can we stop it from having our own states? But the reality is he has power to do so for a certain amount of time, 30 days. If there is an emergency situation, they can do it. He wants to delay it or prolong it longer than that. But the reason, the reason they're probably having in reality is because politically it is advantageous to show that you are tough on crime and Democrats have a very difficult road ahead. Trying to on the one hand explain the problems of a police state and the presence of the National Guard, a la civil rights era with people coming into your towns and also using data to say, no, no, I don't know how you feel, but here's a number. Does this number make you feel better? Here's a number, right? This is, this is better. And, and they're trying to capitalize on that as Republicans.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I was gonna ask, you know, do you think the judicial system could be fair with everything going on in the world with social media and television is where it is. Because, you know, you look at some of these cases and a lot of times people get wrong information, misinformation and it's difficult to take that out of your mind if you're a juror, because you already see most of the things that's happened.

[Laura Coates]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So could it possibly be fair anymore?

[Laura Coates]

The bane of my existence in trial was law and order, that damn dun dun sound and everything else. Right. Why? Because people have an expectation about the ability to meet your burden of proof, number one. Right. Every crime you think has a video, a DNA sample, you can have everything solved in 46 minutes with commercial breaks and Sam Waterston is ready to go. That hurts the ability of real and reality based case. You don't have all that information all the time. So that's hard to be able to meet your burden of proof. On the other hand, it helps to make it a little bit more fair if we have access to technology and you don't use it, or that you have the cameras and you didn't find it, or you had a new about a form that many people who are armchair lawyers know about now and say, shouldn't there be this form from this FBI agent? Because I saw this in such and such and such and such. And the answer is yes, it probably should have been. Now you have a more fair system in that way. But also you have people who are getting misinformation. And people have this tendency, if it's in writing, it must be true. That's why scam artists are so successful. Right. I have a. I have an authoritative voice. I'm telling you this, I'm asking a question. And therefore they think this must be real. And people are getting scammed in real time on misinformation. But then they refuse to let their ego down to say, you know what, I could be mistaken, I could be wrong. But it goes back to mistrust. You get misinformed if you don't trust the source. We kill the messenger every single day because the messenger, well, has been inaccurate at times. But in a 247 news cycle like I'm in, you know, sometimes you are informing, but that's just part of the story. It's not the wrong story. It's the beginning of the story. Right. You look at, say, a trial, for example, if you judge an entire trial by the charge or the arrest, you never get to the fairness part of it. You just say, oh, they got him. They wouldn't have stopped him if they didn't have something. But there's so many things that go into that. Whether it's, was it a reasonable stop, did they have probable cause? Was it racial profiling, do they have evidence? Is it the right person? Do they have the right people to testify? Let alone do they actually have the burden of proof met? So fairness is so flexible. Unfair, unfairly and unreasonably, but really, it's in the eye of the beholder. But in a way, that's kind of how the jury of our peers envisioned it. Because I want your take. I want your take. I want your take. I want your take. And hopefully the result is fairness.

[Unidentified Female Caller]

I was going to ask, when you look at trials like, you do a lot of coverage on the Diddy trial.

[Laura Coates]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Caller]

So did you sis yeah, thanks for having me. But from the beginning, right, you were. There were times where you did make predictions or just, like, follow the story as it went. Was there any time where you flat out were like, this is ridiculous. They're overcharging him. And you wanted to say that, but couldn't.

[Laura Coates]

I did say it, and I could. But you're right to question the ability to be as vocal and as forthright, particularly in an anchor position. Right. When I was a just being a contributor, I had a different role. Right. Because then I could be a little bit more flexible. I'm still very honest and candid, but I have to moderate a conversation where I can't answer every question that I'm asking other people. So sometimes I agree with the person who's answering it. I don't agree with the person's answer, and I try to say that. But one thing that was really bothering me about that trial in particular is, and you can set aside, frankly, all the backstory of violence. That's hard to even say, because there's a huge backstory of violence there.

[Unidentified Female Caller]

And y' all broke the video.

[Laura Coates]

We broke the video. Video, but they didn't charge that. And I think what happened in that case is it's that prosecutorial discretion that is very difficult to navigate. On the one hand, just because you can do something, should you? And the reason you have to balance that test is because everything one government prosecutor says binds the next one. And so you can imagine the cases you go in, and you didn't even know that somebody before you came in and argued something to the court. But now, whatever that judge heard is now assigned to you. I walked into court and done a sentencing and argued my case, as you said. Well, yeah, but the government hasn't always take that. That's a wrong position. They just said that 20 minutes ago. You're like, well, who. Who said that? The government. Which prosecutor? The government. And so you're tied to that. So one of the issues of having that case is that. Is that the new standard to bring RICO for. For that type of case? Were there other matters to bring or other cases to bring other charges? And should we have caught it much sooner? Why wasn't the original case brought? Why were the violence cases not brought sooner? And what message does that send in the long run to victims that you try to bring in and tell them? Because it's a grind. I want you to testify. It's worth it. Please. You're arguing not for yourself, but the next person down the line doesn't want to be victimized. You try to convince that person to come forward. And, well, now you wonder if a very public trial and the person comes forward and tells the most intimate, horrific details of their life, how much harder is it now for the prosecutor to come back and say, no, no, forget what you saw, you should still go forward because it will still matter. Theoretically, in the end, it's just a harder case. And so we don't go up there and say, you are a private attorney. I've been a private attorney before. But as a prosecutor, you represent the state or the jurisdiction or the country. And so even if that person doesn't want to go forward, there's a callousness you have to have. It says, well, I'm not here for you. I'm thinking about the next person who does not want it to be them. But now it makes it harder.

[DJ Envy]

But what do you.

[Unidentified Female Caller]

Okay, I was going to ask. You were on the. You were an Assistant U.S. attorney. U.S. attorney when you saw that, because, remember, they made a big deal about it being all white women that were prosecuting, did you feel like race played a card?

[Laura Coates]

I think that race had a very big part in the assessment of this trial in the court of public opinion because people thought, why this particular person? Is it because this is a black man who's achieved a certain level of income? It is the hearkening back to the highfalutin Negro syndrome that they would try to put on the man act use in terms of how that was looked at. Remember that was the case involving, you know, Jack Johnson, who was a boxer, who was convicted of it for having had the audacity to date a white woman who happened also to be a prostitute at one time and married somebody else as well. So I wonder if that was a part of how people perceived it. But there is always going to be with the messenger for a jury how condescending you might appear, how judgmental you might come across. And there were certainly elements where I found myself wondering, watching the jury and watching the presentation of evidence, how did that read? For example, when someone would say something.

[DJ Envy]

Like, he took the cum and rubbed it on his nipples.

[Laura Coates]

Right. As an example. Yes. Out of all the things that came to mind. But, you know, or that might be a comment. And the person said, like, well, who would ever do that? That's just. And just very sort of disgusted by it. Now you could be disgusted by it. Maybe it's your thing as well. The problem is in this jury, they weren't asked that question. I don't Know, in this jury of 12 or however many people, how. How many of you might get off on that, or how many of you might feel as though, well, you shouldn't be in my bedroom, so don't judge that. Why are we here about that? And so you always run the risk of coming across as, you know, whether actually as a black prosecutor or not as a Karen, as somebody who knows better than you and is going to elevate it to the authorities.

[DJ Envy]

Wow.

[Laura Coates]

And you have to balance that. They were good prosecutors, though. But I think just the image of and how it was portrayed, especially outside of the courtroom, in the court of public opinion, you cannot separate race and power and sex and rock and roll.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

In that instance, you think they got it right?

[Laura Coates]

The jury, you know, based on the presentation of evidence, there was no other result. And I was surprised that so many people who weren't inside the courtroom every day and weren't watching it and maybe were reading transcript, thought, there's no way he can't be convicted of rico. And I thought, well, based on what's been presented, you are making people connect so many dots. Enrico is complex, you guys, right? It's not just your average, you know, walk by someone's, you know, bar and say, it's a shame. You, you know, you have some nice windows here. Someone's going to blow them up unless you pay this amount of money and pay this person like a mob boss hair, mob boss, whatever. It's much more complicated. You got to bridge all these gaps. And when they didn't call people like the right hand men and women of Diddy, I wondered if the jurors thought, well, I've heard a lot about these people. Why am I not seeing any of them?

[DJ Envy]

Why did a one man regal.

[Laura Coates]

Yeah, why? Why is that? And thing is, you can. Technically, one person for conspiracy is enough. But again, back to your question about how fairness operates and how the law people have so many questions about how can that be and is that fair? And in a way, we all become sort of the 13th juror and we have our minds going, all right, in the grand scheme of things, why are you so focused on this? Why this? Right or wrong? That's their question.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, let me ask one other question. You know, so what he was charged with, right? Do you think he should have got a bond or do you think that he should still be sitting there now? Because when they did research, they said anybody with this type of charge usually gets a slap on the wrist, community service, a weekend in jail. But it seems like for Fair charges.

[DJ Envy]

I ain't never heard no community service for no fair charge.

[Laura Coates]

Well, for prostitution, you mean to leave until he sentence in October, Correct? Right. So normally if it's a very violent crime, you are held until you're sentenced because the expectation is you're going to be sentenced, so why not just don't get used to being out.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But it wasn't violent.

[Laura Coates]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When he was charged.

[Laura Coates]

And that's important point you raised because the conviction was not a crime of violence. It didn't even require coercion like say sex trafficking did. But because the lawyers argued as a given, yeah, he was violent, you didn't charge him with that. The judge said, well, this could qualify under the umbrella of the types of matters that are violent by your own admission, counsel.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Even though he wasn't charged.

[Laura Coates]

Even though he wasn't charged. Now that why this is why there's a fairness issue here is because they tell the jury at the beginning the attorney's arguments and they're not evidence. You cannot consider what the attorney says. Right. But the judge did, the judge considered the fact. He said, well, he's, yes, he's, he was violent, yes, that happened in the hotel lobby or the hotel hallway. That absolutely happened. But he can actually look at those things to hold the person longer. Although I do wonder if in holding him now, it makes the judge appear that much more objectively harsh. Therefore, when he sentences, if it's less than what the prosecution wants, you can't accuse him of going light and soft on Diddy. Right.

[DJ Envy]

What do you think he's going to get? As a former federal prosecutor, I would.

[Laura Coates]

Be surprised if it went beyond two or three years with one year being credited to him. Time, his time already in. The reason for that is, although you have 10 years per charge, normally you wouldn't run those consecutively like where that's, you know, back to back up to 20. Because the nature of the crime and because he's a first time convicted offender in this context, sentencing guidelines have kind of a chart. It says, you know, this crime gives you this point and this other case gives you this point. And now I have a little category now you're over here and you're in this range. The judge can still say less or more, but it would be in line with other cases if it was in the lower end. The prosecution, though, they want their bone and their dogs about it because they have to be for the reasons of going forward and thinking we put these resources in, we feel that he's violent and that there should have been longer and more so they're going to go hard. But the judge, I think, will be in his right judicial mind if he's in the same range that Diddy has based on not being a prior offender. Wow.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

I'm glad I don't get in trouble no more. I don't understand none y' all talking about.

[Laura Coates]

Really.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

I'm telling you.

[DJ Envy]

But that's why you hired a lawyer.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Well, yeah, but you see, ain't none of y' all lawyers. But y' all understand this. I just being there, like, all right, so does that mean I'm going to jail or not? Like, you know what I mean? Like scary. I have no. Yeah. And then the thing is right up here, Lauren reports on a lot of.

[Laura Coates]

These type of cases.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Right. And I understand, yeah, she does a great job. I understand a little bit when she breaks down things. I understand a lot more of it. Right. But have you been following the Tory Lanez case?

[Laura Coates]

Right, I have.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Okay, so Lauren just reported something basically like he's asking for. His team is asking for evidence to be reinvented, resubmitted. Right. Do you feel like just with your expertise, Right. That is smart. Or could it be something there? Or are they just beating a dead horse at this point?

[Laura Coates]

No. You have to exhaust every avenue you possibly can. And even though people think that the conviction is the end of the story until you get home, really, you're fighting from the time you're convicted to the time that you actually get out, because you really want everything to be analyzed. You want to suggest that the prosecution knew something and didn't tell you. Right. You want suggested that the cop was a dirty cop, that there was evidence that didn't come in, that the jury should have heard this. They didn't hear it. That's important because all of those things and all those arguments you make when you're in a trial, you're objecting to all those things, they really become placeholders. You object because on appeal, if you didn't, you can't raise them ever again. And then it becomes the end of the road for that defendant. So he needs to try to submit whatever he can for his own ability to try to get out of prison. Doesn't mean it's successful. And judges and appellate courts always know. They know. Okay, you're going to tell me that this piece of evidence should have come in but didn't, or this evidence was heard hearsay wise was allowed in, but it shouldn't have been there. And they get almost like callous to people in their arguments that they make. And that's why you think about the lifetime position people have as judges. Sometimes it can be a good or a bad thing because they're so. They've heard it all, right? You've heard. Imagine having a teenager. And they're like, oh, nothing. I didn't. They have that look at the. In their face that they say, yeah. And you're like, right, right. And you're like, really? I haven't been a teenager before. I haven't. Like, my son's like, I need to close the door in my bedroom. Like, really? I haven't been 12 before. Keep the door open. No. What do you mean? He thinks he's slick on something. No, I know what's gonna happen. Or I think I know, so I haven't. I think.

[DJ Envy]

Mom.

[Laura Coates]

Yes. Damn, Mom. I see my son is. That's right. And I see these girls.

[DJ Envy]

Oh, you didn't say you had a girl in the room.

[Laura Coates]

No, no, no. In the room. Oh, I'm not that mom. There would never be a girl in the room in my house. No, no, no. This is my daughter or grandma. Absolutely not. No, no, no. But you think they know full well. They think they're being slick. And a lot of judges have that mentality of, oh, that's cute. Oh, really? Is that what happened to you? Or are you just guilty? And so he has to exhaust everything for his own, really legal peace of mind. But it doesn't mean there's anything there.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah. When you're sitting down for 10 years, you trying everything.

[Laura Coates]

I get a lot of prison mail and a lot of conversations. People who really. They follow the news and they hear about, you know, this prosecutor getting fired or this cop having this case, and they go, that was my person. What does that mean for me? And the reality is, it could mean nothing, but it could mean something.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I want to ask one more Diddy question.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, of course you do. It's not hard to get him off Diddy's arm. It's hard to get him off Diddy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Pause, pause. I want to ask one question. You know, we see his attorneys come out, and to me, it doesn't seem like they're doing a good job when they're talking about Diddy wants to come out and do Madison Square Garden again and just talking too much. Do you feel that way as well?

[Laura Coates]

Try shutting up a lawyer. That's number one. Right. And that's part of it. But I think they want the impression that this is such a minor offense that he should be able to do that. Right. You wouldn't tell that for a murder suspect. You wouldn't be like, oh, well, you know, when he gets out, let's do Meadowlands, right? No, you wouldn't do that. But you're talking about someone like Diddy who. Their counsel wants to project the image that this is so minor. Come on, come on. That they want that to be heard by the court.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And the court watch that after sentencing.

[Laura Coates]

You would think they would do that after. But remember, they're building their case and they know a public case of this stature is very different than the regular Rigmaro. Very different. The choices that are probably made, the amount of eyes on it, the celebrity factor, people think, oh, they'll get a sweetheart deal. Cause they're celebrity oftentimes. I mean, you got more heat on the prosecutors and the defense to do the. Do this case a certain way because they don't want the impression that they are giving anyone a pass. And the defense team, remember, they have other cases. They've got the Luigi Mangioni case, right. Coming up. They know full well they've got a jury pool that's going to be hearing from them in New York where they're going to want the impression that they are advocates and zealous advocates throughout the duration of any case. And they want the impression of no big deal.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

What he said about what he just asked you about Diddy's lawyers.

[Laura Coates]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Does one just say that or do you get. Could they be getting that from their client? They could be lawyers just go and say things on their client's behalf like that without even checking with them.

[Laura Coates]

Or I. My impression is that nothing is just said without Diddy's involvement. Right, right. And that's a good thing. You want his buy in. I don't know that he has agreed to that statement. But you want your clients buy in because you need to instruct them not to be their own worst enemy. And there has to be a collaboration about that. You know, you have a lawyer to be your advocate, not to be your echo, because your echo gets you in trouble. It said what you said, but your advocate is helping you to spin what you have just said so that you're not going to hurt yourself in the end. And so on the one hand, his lawyer saying it means they can be. I didn't say that, you, Honor. I take it seriously. I'm in the class, I'm doing the work. That's them. On the other hand, if he buys it, you, Honor, I'd like to move on with my Life, as my attorneys have said. So it gives you enough cover, it gives you language, it gives you language, it gives you cover. And that's your job of your lawyer. Because there's a myth that defense warriors are like, they approach it and go, I'll only do this if you tell me, did you do it? Did you really do it? Because my conscience tells me this.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

In reality, they're like, there's something special.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

About folks who come through without being asked. Like your coworker surprising you with your favorite coffee just because. Or your friend handing you the aux cord the moment you get into the car. No debate, no fight, just positive vibes. That kind of love. It just hits different. And that's exactly the energy. AT&T is on with their new guarantee. If there's ever a network interruption, AT&T will proactively credit you for a full day of service. No calls, no emails, no jumping through hoops. It's just handled. It's like the universe saying, I got you. Except this time it's not the stars aligning, it's your network. And let's be real, that connection is everything. Whether you're holding down the group chat, checking in on your parents. Scrolling TikTok. Your network's gotta come through. And if there's a problem and AT and T is on the case, no stress, no drama, just real backup when it counts. Credit for Fiber downtime lasting 20 minutes or more or wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or more caused by a single incident impacting 10 or more towers. Restrictions and exclusions apply. See att.com guaranty for full details. AT&T connecting changes everything.

[Laura Coates]

A foot washed up, a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was.

[DJ Envy]

Most everything was burned up pretty good.

[Laura Coates]

From the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable.

[America's Crime Lab Narrator]

These are the coldest of cold cases. But everything is about to change.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

[America's Crime Lab Narrator]

A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA using new scientific tools that they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[America's Crime Lab Narrator]

On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors. And you'll meet the team behind the scenes at othram, the Houston lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hunter]

I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Join me every weekday as I share bite sized stories of missing and murdered Black women and girls in America. There are several ways we can all do better at protecting black women. My contribution is shining a light on our missing sisters and amplifying their disregarded stories. Stories like Tameka Anderson. As she drove toward Galvez, she was in contact with several people talking on the phone as she made her way to what should have been a routine transaction. But Tameka never bought the car and she never returned home that day. One podcast, one mission. Save our girls. Join the search as we explore the chilling cases of missing and murdered Black women and girls. Listen to Hunting for Answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ebony]

Welcome to Pretty Private with ebony, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebony and every time Tuesdays, I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all. Childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles and more. And found the strength to make it to the other side.

[Laura Coates]

My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant. But he wasn't shot on a street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed.

[Ebony]

Pretty Private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Laura Coates]

Okay, here's the charge. Don't tell me, but can I prove it? What might there be out there that I don't know about that proves what they said? It's a different conversation and that's how they're advocating. You know what I mean?

[Unidentified Male Caller]

See, I learned that from power. So there you go.

[Laura Coates]

Yes, this is good. There you go.

[DJ Envy]

Do you like being a moderator or an anchor more? And the reason I ask is because sometimes you. You have people on and you're way more interested than the people that you're hosting. So what do you like more, moderating or anchoring?

[Laura Coates]

Thank you for saying sometimes. You know, I like. I think you have to be both. I mean, I. An effective moderator is the anchor. It keeps people there. The job is not just to be like, you know, vanilla. And now you talk. No opinion. Okay, great. Now you talk. I can't say anything. Okay, here's my muzzle again. The point of an anchor in my book is to make sure that the conversation goes in the direction it stops where the people want to hear it. Right. Other shows can float all around and do whatever they want to do, but I am an anchor that ground the conversation and what the people want to hear and what they actually care about. By the time you get 11 o' clock at night, you all have heard everything. You probably haven't. You've chewed over. So you've maybe heard about it, maybe you didn't, but you have an opinion on something. And so now you have the why. Now you've got the real why questions that come out. And that's where I think an effective moderator and anchor comes in. But it is hard sometimes. I tell you I have blood in my mouth. Some days I'm biting my tongue. I'm like, well, that didn't make any sense, what you just said. And I say that, but I have to be diplomatic. Right. Other times you have to get people's opinions in, even when I believe they're the wrong opinion because they're based on misinformation. And so that, that, that's where my anchor comes down. The anchor comes down again. Stop. Let's not move past this. Because people hear it in writing. People hear it, they believe it, they see it, they trust it. No one contradicts it. It's fact. So I've got, at every level, stop it from happening. It's hard.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Hell, yeah, it's hard.

[Unidentified Female Caller]

What was your journey like when you first decided to get onto tv? Like, you would just pop in sometimes and kind of be like a legal analyst. Yeah, because you're so in tune with like, pop culture and like, you understand what's happening on social media. And a lot of times the older networks or older anchors, they don't like to accept that at all. So was your journey welcoming when you came in, or were you.

[Laura Coates]

Was my journey. Is it welcoming now to me? Let me think about that. Well, I didn't come at this like most people did. So when I left the doj, I didn't really have a plan to go into television. It wasn't like I was thinking my whole life, I want to be on television. If anything, I thought I would do scripted tv. I wanted. I did stage Acting. I thought, maybe I'll do theater as part of my. That'd be fun to do. I wanted to follow my passions. But then my husband came home one day after I had my first and second child. And he came home one day, they're back to back, and he was putting a camera on the car. And he calls me out to tell me there's this camera. I go, I don't need this. What is this? I don't need a camera. What is this? What's going on? And it was the Same Year of McBrown, Trayvon Martin and Sandy Hook, frankly, happened that year. And I said, what is this? And my husband's from the Bronx, right?

[DJ Envy]

The craziest people in America come from the Bronx and all of Florida.

[Laura Coates]

And sexiest. There you go. This is my man. That's right. And he's very stoic. Not emotional, like, I'm the hurricane, and he's like the grounding force. And he had tears in his eyes. And he's like, maybe it's not really for you. It's also for me because if I'm ever stopped by police, I want you to know what really happened.

[DJ Envy]

Wow.

[Laura Coates]

And, I mean, I was a prosecutor then, and I was the one he was asking questions of about, can they do this and can they do that? And I thought I was giving answers that not only made sense, but emotionally resonated, like, okay, I can accept that. But it turns out in that moment, it was very clear that it didn't, because there was an inevitability in his mind, this is his demise. And I thought, I'm maybe an exception to the rule for him, but it won't save his life. And so I remember that day thinking, I need to make a change because I have this muzzle on in doj. As a prosecutor, you can't speak press, you can't inform people. You can't do any stuff. And selfishly, between him and my baby boy, who's the oldest, and then my daughter, I thought, selfishly, I love them so much, I have to save their lives. And the only way I knew how was to use my mind as a weapon and as a tool. And again, five, three and a half. Like, my stature wasn't going to do it, but a platform could. And so I didn't have a plan other than to pick up and leave one day. And I made it something dramatic. I made it MLK Day so I could say, free at last. I left the building. People laughed at me. They said. My supervisor said, you actually said that on the way out. I sure did.

[DJ Envy]

Free at last.

[Laura Coates]

Free last. But it was January 15th. Wow. And my supervisor laughed. He was Laura, you know, when you come back, could you write your review in advance so I don't have to do it when you come back? And I thought that was kind of a taunting. I just couldn't do it. And I remember having nothing. Like I had, you know, I had my mind, I had my husband.

[DJ Envy]

You had a dream.

[Laura Coates]

I had a dream. I didn't know how to form it. I had a Panera bread. Thank you, mlk. I had a mountaintop. All things. Thank you very much. I had a. I had a Panera bread in my neighborhood. And I literally had put a business card into a firehouse subs, like wind subs for a year bucket. And I won the year of firehouse subs, I kid you not. And that was like I was nursing my daughter still. My son was only about a year or so. They were 18 months apart. It's a little over a year. And I remember, like posting up in a pin airbread saying to myself, how do I do? How do I go from I want to speak truth to power by telling people the truth is, how do I do that? I don't know anyone in media. I don't know anything about it. What can I do? And I just sat there, day in, day out, writing and trying to get my op eds written going on radio. I was on SiriusXM. Karen Hunter helped me out and she put me on to do, like, commentary. I didn't know anything. My daughter, on one of my first episodes with them, my daughter was nursing. I didn't have daycare. I couldn't leave. And, you know, as a woman, I wasn't comfortable. Even though I trusted my husband, I believe in him. I couldn't just leave the babies. Like, leave the babies or, I mean, I couldn't. No, I couldn't just say, you take care of all the finance and I'll figure this out. I had to do something. And so I remember having my kids with me at one point and just figuring it out. But that turned into television and doing hits and then being. Then consistently never slipping, consistently being authentic in the information, being truthful, having the wit, having the charisma, being able to, you know, slap down disrespect, which often happened. People would sort of do the pat you on the head. And I look young and this is 10 years later, so I looked even younger. And people want to make you feel as though you don't know as much as they do because you saw the Watergate movie and they lived through the Watergate era. And you're like, well, I, you know what I mean? But now I'm like, well, I remember saying one person, I said, well, I get that, but neither of us was here for the Constitution. And so what's your point? Right? But having to do that on air, having to make in that moment, be your own champion and just do what I tried to do for other people, for myself. But that was a 10 year and it's still ongoing to this day. To this day I have to figuratively put on a coats jersey before I walk into my own studio because there are people who will every day try. Do you think, you think getting to the top if I'm there or not, I don't know. But getting to a top is hard. Try staying there. And so I just go back. I sign every new deal I ever do. Whenever I have a book deal, whatever I'm doing, I make them sign it in Panera. So I'm sitting there looking and going, I remember with my daughter nursing, not knowing what the hell I was doing. And I get a firehouse sub, the engineer turkey with mushrooms and some Swiss cheese. Cause it was free for a year, which might explain sometimes the waistline, but whatever. And that's how I remember and keep grounded because I hope I will never be the person who's more comfortable in the upper echelons than walking through my own neighborhood.

[DJ Envy]

I got so many questions, but about Panera, I mean, just in general, because as I'm hearing you talking and I'm hearing things that's coming to me. Lauren said something and you were talking about being welcomed and I thought about that. I'm like, yo, there are a lot of cliques, it seems like in this, oh yeah. Media space, you know, and it's like you have groups of women that are in news and sports and everything. They all hang out and then you see groups of women over here. I don't ever see you with them. Clicks.

[Laura Coates]

I'm a mommy. Yeah, well, they mommy differently than I mommy. And I'm okay with the way that I'm social. I'm posted on my own terms. And I really am somebody who values like I, I, I love my remember wins. If you can't look at me and have a remember when moment, you're not going to be part of my everyday crew. Right. And because I think so many people, especially in this industry, they want to post their life. I want to live my life and with my children in particular. I'm sensitive, right. So I can't guarantee you that I'm not going to come find you if you post a bad comment on my child. And I. But I have a mortgage, so I can't do that sort of stuff. Right. I can't be that scrappy. So I'm sensitive about preserving like my peace by keeping my life private. But on the other hand, it's part of the job is part. And I wrestle with this every single day because I'm at as many events as probably anyone else. I see them as any people. I don't just, I don't post it. And that can be a problem for people. They think, oh well. And that translates to something. But I have to. I ha. And I'm not always the most. I mean, I'm very outgoing, but I love my circle and my life and they are full of remember wins. And I love that. But the clicks, they're real. And the clicks, I think can sometimes. And you know, I'm cool with everybody. It's not. Doesn't mean that I'm not cool with them. But the cliques can sometimes operate to make you think that where you are is the top. And they want you to compare and think, well, if you're not doing what you're doing, then you're doing nothing. And in my mind, I let you climb. Your peak is not my peak climb. But just don't step on me on the way because then you will be talked to about it. Like, I'm not. I'm nice and I'm friendly and I have a, you know, I'll speak and everyone. I'm always going to be very, especially among my peer group, very respectful until.

[DJ Envy]

And I think a lot of those clicks have forgotten those neighborhoods. You still want to remember?

[Laura Coates]

Yeah, I mean, look, I'm not, I don't pretend to be anything I'm not. I'm from. I grew up in Minnesota. So what I look like acting like I didn't. Right. Or, you know, I went to Princeton. So I'm not going to pretend that I'm something I'm not. I'm not going to, you know, I grew up. I'm the youngest girl. We're all lawyers. My three sisters, two sisters, all lawyers. Like, I'm not going to pretend that we have not climbed as well. But I'm also the daughter of a man who grew up in foster care. I'm, you know, I'm a daughter of, you know, my, My mom's parents left North Carolina to go to Stanford, Connecticut to Work in the homes of people who become my clients. When I was a lawyer. Right. I know where I come from, I'm a black woman in America, African American in this country. And so when I see people trying to make you think that you're only phenomenal if you are the exception to your race, I'm not having it. I don't want to be involved in it. But I do tell you that the clicks can make you. Sometimes you feel a little. I mean, this is a very lonely field. You know, there are times that I absolutely feel very lonely. And because I don't see what I give out returned to me. But I also feel like everyone in the end will have to reckon with whatever their own demons are. And I'm not the person to point them out every single day. But it's lonely sometimes. That's why I turn to my family a lot and I remember whens. And I am very discerning about who I let into my private thoughts. Because there are so many people who will take that just enough to try to turn it against you. And I'm just not that interested. I didn't come into it because I wanted to be famous. I didn't come because I wanted to wear makeup. I already wore makeup. I was already cute as hell. I already dressed well. You know, I already took care of myself. I already, you know, had the shine that I wanted in my career. I was very proud of what I was doing. I came into it because it was a love letter to my family. So I'm not gonna rip it up just to have a follower.

[DJ Envy]

I wanna go back to that. Because you said something. I don't know why my brain thought of this, but you talked about your husband putting the cameras in the car.

[Laura Coates]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

And you're a federal. You were a prosecutor. It made me think of Queen and Slim. That's the thing that frustrated me about that movie. I'm sorry, Lena, I gotta get this off. You are a prosecutor. If you was in that situation and the cop shot at you and your man, as a prosecutor, would your mind say, I'm going on a run?

[Laura Coates]

I would not run. But I don't. I don't necessarily have the same relationship, interaction with the police that they did. And I wouldn't. I don't. I don't always have the same fears. I have a very different take. Not that I trust police officers inherently, but I don't distrust them inherently. And so I would. I would think I could fight. That's. I would think I could fight it now. Would Everyone, they could fight it. Would a 16 year old version that could fight it. Would a 60 year old version think I could fight it? I don't know. But I would try to fight because.

[DJ Envy]

In the movie she was a lawyer.

[Laura Coates]

But why, why not fight?

[DJ Envy]

That's what I thought.

[Laura Coates]

But that's, that's a movie.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

But I don't know.

[DJ Envy]

I always wondered about that. I don't know why you made me think of that.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

It could be real. Like, it could be a real life situation. Now would Panera Bread you?

[Laura Coates]

Panera Bread would have nursed that orange scone all day. On the run, that's what would happen on the run. But, you know, but that's, that's the thing. Every, you know, every year I feel different. I know my people used to love Panera Bread. No, I still love it. Still love it. I still love it. But every year, every year I feel different. You want to go to Panera One day I'm gonna tell you, come in like, now I own all Panera Breads. That's the end of the story at some point.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

That's amazing, I believe.

[Laura Coates]

But like I, you know, one day, I mean, I think you're just different. Who you would be and what you have and what your optimism level dictates, what you're willing to fight for. Like, I'm still on the optimistic range where I'm like, I can make this work.

[DJ Envy]

It's Luthalina. Cause she'll call me and check me in two seconds.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Absolutely.

[DJ Envy]

I want to ask this too. You were a federal prosecutor in the civil Rights division of the U.S. department of justice during the Bush and Obama administrations. What I wanted to ask you is, you know, we hear people say things like, Donald Trump is taking us back. He's, you know, all these executive orders have, you know, repealed these rights and he's taking us back to this time. People will come up here and ask like, what year we think we living in. I'm like, we're in 2025. Like. But I want to ask you simply, to the people that are listening, what rights are being stripped away from us right now?

[Laura Coates]

Number one, voting. Okay, Voting. It's almost like you think about your health. If your health fails, nothing else matters. You know, if voting goes away, almost nothing else you want to argue about is important enough to counteract that. Because if you don't have a say, then you cannot speak later in a way that's actually going to fall on the right ears. And voting does that. And so the rolling back of rights, when I Was in the Civil rights division, the voting section. We still had section five, which is the formula you use to determine whether in an area of the country that traditionally violated civil rights laws or had skewed voting rights and laws that impacted black people, period. There's a formula you'd use to figure out whether that person, that jurisdiction was qualified to have to ask for permission for any change they wanted to make. When I was there, that was still there. That's gone. The formula's gone because Supreme Court said it's outdated. We're in this sort of a post racial world. We've had a black president now, so the same rules don't apply. So therefore Congress think of a new formula. And while you take your sweet time, everything goes astray. Well, that was the entryway point of why everything else is starting to fail in terms of section 2, which is the race based and gerrymandering aspects of it. So that's the number one thing that people are rolling back, voting. They're voting. Number two, don't sleep on the fourth Amendment. Reasonable search and seizures and stops. You know, anytime you hear about a police brutality case of a driver or someone in their home or wherever it is, you're talking about the fourth Amendment, what right the officer has to stop you, question you, touch you, arrest you, all those things. The more power you give officers without having to substantiate that power based on probable cause or the Constitution, the more you live in a place where that goes away. So, for example, with the national guard or the FBI as president in Washington D.C. where I am, the question is not just whether they're supposed to be there because it's an emergency, but whether they're gonna abide by the same principles under the fourth Amendment. The standard right now is it's only unreasonable if a reasonable officer would feel it's unreasonable. Not whether you think it's reasonable, not whether you, or you, or you. Whether a reasonable officer would think so, which incentivizes people to say, well, I'm not gonna call out my fellow officer because it could come back to haunt me. So I'm gonna have sort of a, yeah, it's reasonable. Kick him in the head. I mean, I can see why that could happen. Shot him accidentally. Oh, well, you know, I can see why that would happen. And they become the reasonable standard. So that's what the cops know. There's already that issue now. You add the National Guard, you add in the FBI, who they don't do average traffic stops.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, they're not even. They're not even equipped to do that kind of work.

[Laura Coates]

They're not also not necessarily used to adhering to the same standards because the nature of their work is so much more of an emergency that they have to be a little bit more aggressive at times, they say. So now trying to balance all that out means that the more accepted it becomes that law enforcement has power, the less you have to say, wait, I have my rights. You can't do that to me. The more it becomes laughed at. So I think those are two areas to me, that are the most problematic. There are others voting in the fourth Amendment. Yeah, absolutely.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We appreciate you for joining us.

[Laura Coates]

Thank you, sir.

[DJ Envy]

I got one final question.

[Ebony]

Uh.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, it better not be a Panera.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Bread question or MLK grow up.

[DJ Envy]

Well, nobody said nothing.

[Laura Coates]

Now I'm curious. Go ahead.

[Unidentified Female Caller]

I got the two. Well, one question I can't put in one. So when you didn't get Jeopardy. Right, you kept your. Your response to how you felt very diplomatic. But a lot of people feel like you weren't in the the thought, even though he said you should be because you were a black woman. Did you feel like it was a race thing of the reason why you weren't even considered as like in the guest hosting slot or just called in, even try out?

[Laura Coates]

I thought it was that I wasn't asked to try out. I thought it was something that was the machinations behind the scenes where people decide who their heroes and celebrities ought to be and merit didn't matter. And that's how I honestly feel about it. I feel like, I mean, so whether it was a race, I don't know as much as a race thing, as much as it wasn't a you thing. Now who I am is a black woman. So if it's me, then it was that. But I was always very resentful of it, and I still am because I think it'd be much easier to have a job where the answers are already in front of me like on Jeopardy. Than anything else. But as I see, they say everyone's journey is their journey. For me, I was honored that he was specific. He was kind. When I reached out to thank him, I was grateful to have a chance to get to know him a little bit during that, but it wasn't his call. But here's what, here's what that told me and the lesson. I never forget the fact that it wasn't Alex Trebek's call, who'd replace him told me I have to examine power differently. Right. And I have to examine who really is in control very differently. And in many ways I'm happy that it happened because I approach all my negotiations and business dealings, that if my name's on something, it belongs to me, and that includes the agency to do with it what I want. And if I had gotten it just because someone's, oh, I think it'd be her, that's great, it'd be her. I might not have approached it the same way and. But I still think it's. I think it's ridiculous.

[DJ Envy]

I thought Alex died.

[Laura Coates]

He did die. But he did die. Before he passed, long before he passed, he asked who he'd want to replace him and he said he passed away from pancreatic cancer, sadly, which is. My grandmother had the same thing. And it was just, what a horrible disease and cruel. But I was honored to even be mentioned in it. But I still feel some kind of way about it.

[Unidentified Female Caller]

Before he died, he had said that she's one of the people that should be considered.

[DJ Envy]

Oh, dope.

[Unidentified Female Caller]

But we never even got to see her be considered.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Wow.

[Laura Coates]

But I was told, I was told when I would, when I had, when I spoke, maybe I'm telling too much information. When I did try to fight for it, they said, well, maybe. Well, a particular person whose name I can't even recall, he's that irrelevant to me now.

[DJ Envy]

Nah, call that.

[Laura Coates]

I can't, I can't. I honestly can't remember his name. I can't remember his name, but I remember he was like, but you know what? If you ever. You can be my assistant on a podcast. No, to research on a podcast. I was like, I'll be your assistant to research on the podcast. Who do you think you're talking to? Not me.

[DJ Envy]

What game show did Alex see you host that? He.

[Laura Coates]

I had. And he watched me on cnn. Wow. Wow. And he also. I did radio. I did Sirius XM for a long time. And so he would. He was a radio guy himself when he first started out. And so he said that he respected the work that I did and, and the mind and thought it would be a beautiful match. Wow, that was really cool.

[Unidentified Female Caller]

In my last question, I was, did that help in how you navigated? Because people started having a conversation about you and Kaitlan Collins when people felt like you were shorted in that situation with getting a full time anchor role.

[Laura Coates]

Well, I had the anchor role. You mean I didn't have the 9 o' clock hours, you mean? Okay. You know, I think people have a tendency to always ask, you know, and why her and not this person? And they assume that, that there is beef. But I, I really, I believe that I am, I'm where I'm supposed to be in this moment and let everyone climb the way they want to climb. Let people enjoy the fruits of their labor because I enjoy mine. But the work is so far from being done. So I think, you know, where I am and where I'll end up are two different things by far.

[DJ Envy]

One, this the strongest lineup on cable news. I got. I mean, I can literally go from Anderson Cooper, Aaron. No, it's Aaron Burnett, Anderson Cooper to Kaitlyn, Abby. And then you like. Yeah, that's by far the strongest lineup on.

[Laura Coates]

Well, we appreciate that. I mean, we, I know at CNN are very grateful for the audience because, you know, trust issues can change people. Right? And also there is the emergence, not even negative cnn, but there's the emergence of new media. Right. There are, I mean, there is, you talk about this that, you know, there is the old guard of legacy media who some people think is all that should be and then there are people who actually have it. Right. I include in that mindset of I want to access as many people as possible where you are. And that needs to be necessarily on the medium that you think it is. But I hope that our audience continues to grow and that people appreciate every person on our lineup for what they bring because every single person contributes in a different and unique way. And the format of the show is unique and different in a way that helps people to find their truth seekers. And that's important. And if they, if you don't feel that way, then you should tell people, let them, let give people a chance to, to, to hear what you need and what you want. But I, I don't want to be like in an ivory tower where I'm like, here's the way that news does. I'm not stuffy, I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to be Walter Cronkite. I don't want to be, I want to be Laura Coates. And I'm cool with that. But what I don't want to be is who you think Laura Coates ought to be. I am at the 11 o' clock hour. I hold it down as an anchor. I'm strong willed about that. But I think there is always room for improvement.

[DJ Envy]

My last question, you know, you're a mother, you're a wife, you know, former prosecutor on cnn. When do you have time to be this fun Ratchet law coach? I keep hearing about everybody that I know that's hung out with you and kicked it. They got. They see something else.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

That's crazy. He got you up here to call.

[Laura Coates]

Out your ratchet over. I know.

[DJ Envy]

I'm just saying, especially when I saw people come back from the vineyard and.

[Laura Coates]

They was like, yo, Laura, Coach though Ratui is crazy. I hope I'm the same person, but you have to talk about the constitution here. But I mean, really, I make time for fun. I make time for love and joy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because I started a whole interview. But that she was like, ah, well, I.

[Laura Coates]

What had happened was, right. No, you know what? I gotta be who I can be. And I want there to be a through line. You know, the best advice I ever got was from Steve Harvey, who said to me that, you know, Lara, I am the same person no matter where you see me, period. And I hope that that's me just maybe a little bit different outfit, different hair, different ponytail, different heel color, different lipstick, different eyeliner, but I'm the same person. It's just that, you know, who else I mean, it would be? I would never want to try to be who I was not. But every circumstance does not call for my ratchetness.

[DJ Envy]

Word. Word.

[Laura Coates]

Some really do. And sometimes I'm like, oh, you think this is not. Oh, let me take my earrings off a second. Hold on, hold on, hold on one second. Hold on one second. I'm not the one or the two.

[DJ Envy]

But I wore coats.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

I love it.

[Laura Coates]

Thank you, guys.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Thank you so much for joining us.

[Laura Coates]

This is.

[DJ Envy]

And don't be a stranger, man.

[Laura Coates]

Pull up on us.

[DJ Envy]

Like there's things that we can, you know, talk about.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Thank you for teaching me some things.

[Laura Coates]

Thank you.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Appreciate that.

[DJ Envy]

Cuz you said something earlier. You talked about armchair attorneys, and I feel like we have a lot of. A lot of those. And I don't know if people are becoming more legally literate or getting worse than understanding the constitution and all right. So we need people like.

[Laura Coates]

Well, I appreciate that, and I'm honored to be here, and I respect you all so much. Thank you for letting me come.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Thank you so much. It's Laura Coates. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.

[DJ Envy]

Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club.

[Laura Coates]

So y' all done?

[Danielle Fishel]

This is Danielle Fishel from Pod Meats World. Parents, quick question. When is the last time you won snack time? The other day, I handed my son a perfectly portioned Pinterest level snack, and he traded it for a Mott's applesauce pouch. I'm not mad, just impressed. And that's why Mott's no sugar added Applesauce pouches are perfect to keep on hand. They're made with real apples packed in a super easy pouch. Perfect for tossing in a lunchbox, keeping in the car, or grabbing as you're running out the door. Plus, they're a good source of vitamin C and kids love them. Win Win. Make sure your kid wins snack time with Mottz. Real apples make real good applesauce. Learn [e-mail] every case that is a.

[Unidentified Male Caller]

Cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in.

[America's Crime Lab Narrator]

Our lifetime on the new podcast America's Crime Lab. Every case has a story to tell and the DNA holds the truth.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He never thought he was going to get caught and I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[Laura Coates]

This technology's already solving so many cases.

[America's Crime Lab Narrator]

Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hunter]

I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Join me every weekday as I share bite sized stories of missing Mr. Murdered black women and girls in America. Stories like Erica Hunt, a young mother vanished without a trace after a family gathering on 4th of July weekend, 2016. No goodbyes, no clues, just gone. Listen to Hunting for Answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Laura Coates]

Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult, but it happens all the time. To people just like you and people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth.

[Hunter]

We're the hosts of Trust Me, a.

[Laura Coates]

Podcast about cults, manipulation and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers and experts to understand why.

[Hunter]

People get pulled in and how they get out.

[Laura Coates]

Trust me.

[Hunter]

New episodes every week. Wednesday on exactly right.

[Laura Coates]

Listen wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I Heart podcast.