← The Breakfast Club
The Breakfast Club
INTERVIEW: Leon Thomas Talks 'Mutt,' Acting, Music, Working With Drake, Ye, SZA , 'Quiet On Set,' + More
00:46:59
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- [00:00]
Charlamagne tha God
Listen to me. This is Charlamagne tha God talking. If you're not on prime, you're missing out. Prime's not just fast free delivery, although that is definitely a big perk. It's a collection of excellent services that help you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Like right now I am really getting into past life regression therapy and there's so many books about it on Prime. So you can order books with prime or even listen to content on Amazon Music. Whether you're binge watching the latest on prime video, listening to music on Amazon Music or getting those last minute gifts dropped at your door with prime, same day free delivery with customers get closer to what they care about. Whatever you're into, it's all on Prime. Visit Amazon.com prime now. Treachery, backstabbing, Murder. Emmy winning the Traitors is back for an all new season.
- [00:46]
Leon Thomas
Here we go again.
- [00:47]
Charlamagne tha God
Join me for the ultimate game of Survival where making it to the end is a matter of life and death. This game is Torture us.
- [00:56]
Leon Thomas
I can feel my blood pressure rise.
- [00:58]
Unknown
If you carry on with that cocky attitude, you might get yourself in trouble.
- [01:02]
Leon Thomas
Oh, I missed that.
- [01:04]
Charlamagne tha God
This the Traitors streaming now only on.
- [01:07]
DJ Envy
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- [01:28]
Unknown
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- [01:45]
Jason Alexander
I'm Jason Alexander.
- [01:46]
Peter Tilden
And I'm Peter Tilden and together our mission on the really Know really podcast.
- [01:50]
Jason Alexander
Is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions, like why the bathroom.
- [01:55]
Peter Tilden
Door doesn't go all the way to the floor. What's in the museum? A failure and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer.
- [02:00]
Jason Alexander
Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win.
- [02:03]
Peter Tilden
$500, a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition sign. Jason Bobblehead the Really no Illy Podcast.
- [02:08]
Jason Alexander
Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:14]
Charlamagne tha God
Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.
- [02:19]
DJ Envy
Morning, everybody. It's Dej, Envy, Jess, Hilarious Charlamagne, the guy. We are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRosa filling in for just today. We got a special guest in the building. Yes, indeed, we have the brother, Leon Thomas. Welcome, bro.
- [02:30]
Leon Thomas
What's good? What's good? How y'all feeling?
- [02:32]
DJ Envy
How you feeling?
- [02:32]
Charlamagne tha God
Blessed, black, and highly favored. Leon, you are by far the greatest new male R and B singer doing it today, man.
- [02:38]
Leon Thomas
Thank you so much.
- [02:40]
Charlamagne tha God
That shouldn't even be up for debate, man.
- [02:42]
Leon Thomas
Man, I really appreciate that, man.
- [02:43]
Charlamagne tha God
How do you receive that?
- [02:44]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, I mean, you know, to be honest, I try to just take it one step at a time. You know, I try to stay humble with everything, but I'm glad to be a new voice in R and B. You know, it's a genre that I love. You know, I'm trying to bring back live musicianship, real songs. You know, writing with the team that I have has been an amazing pleasure. And, you know, just bringing like, that. That organic feeling back to the live stage is like, a big thing for me, you know, one of your biggest.
- [03:12]
DJ Envy
Fans who's a producer up here, he put us on to you years ago. His name is Brandon, but he's actually. This is the funniest thing. He's actually in Africa right now.
- [03:21]
Leon Thomas
Oh, really?
- [03:23]
DJ Envy
But he's a huge fan of yours. He goes to all your shows and all your concerts.
- [03:27]
Leon Thomas
Put us onto you early.
- [03:27]
DJ Envy
But he would have loved to see you here, man.
- [03:29]
Leon Thomas
That's amazing.
- [03:30]
DJ Envy
For people that don't know Leon Thomas, you know you started on Broadway. Tell everybody how you got your start and your way into being this R and B star.
- [03:38]
Leon Thomas
Well, listen, I grew up in New York, started on Broadway out here. I did three Broadway plays from Lion King. The Carolina changed the Color Purple.
- [03:45]
DJ Envy
You were Simba in Lion King?
- [03:47]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah, I was Simba in Lion King. And then, you know, I started booking movies and TV shows.
- [03:52]
DJ Envy
How was that? I just took my kids to see that.
- [03:54]
Leon Thomas
Oh, no, it was insane.
- [03:55]
DJ Envy
How was that training? Cause it's a lot of shows, a lot of people, and it's live, so you can't mess up.
- [04:00]
Leon Thomas
No, no, no, you can't mess up. It's eight shows a week. I was 10 years old when I. I did my first Broadway play, Shout out to my mom and my family for, you know, supporting me through that whole journey. And, yeah, man, I went from being a regular kid to starring on Broadway in a matter of months. You Know now, how was that?
- [04:17]
DJ Envy
Because it's not the typical thing New York kids do.
- [04:21]
Leon Thomas
Right.
- [04:22]
DJ Envy
So you're singing, you're dancing, you're doing that.
- [04:23]
Charlamagne tha God
So how did you get into that part of it?
- [04:25]
Questlove
No, because you don't go to Broadway.
- [04:27]
DJ Envy
I don't know anybody that went to Broadway. So it's very different New York kids.
- [04:29]
Charlamagne tha God
That go on Broadway. I don't.
- [04:31]
Leon Thomas
I mean, I don't know. I had a couple homies who ended up in different plays, but for the most part. Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely, like, a bit of an anomaly for my neighborhood in Brooklyn. It was kind of weird explaining it to my homies at school. Like, yeah, I was just doing a show last night. They're like, what's going on?
- [04:46]
Charlamagne tha God
Maybe kids from a certain area, that's.
- [04:48]
Unknown
That means.
- [04:50]
Charlamagne tha God
Well, not from New York, from the hoods of New York.
- [04:52]
Leon Thomas
Okay, yeah.
- [04:54]
DJ Envy
All right.
- [04:55]
Leon Thomas
But, nah, it was definitely a real pleasure, you know, but from there, I ended up doing a lot of TV and film. You know, I shot my first movie out here with Robin Williams and Terrence Howard called August Rush, which was an amazing pleasure. And that kind of brought me into a lot of TV after that. Yeah, with Nickelodeon, and he was on Victorious. Victorious, yeah, yeah, yeah. With Ariana Grande. And, you know, that was a big journey. That was the number one show on the network at the time. We were beating out American Idol, and it was a way for the rest of the world to kind of really tap into who I am as a creative. But it took years of really honing in on who I am as an artist to get to this point, producing and writing for a bunch of different artists, winning a Grammy, working with SZA and Babyface. Drake, A bunch of different people. It's been a. You wrote for Drake? I actually produced for Drake. But, you know, shout out to him, man.
- [05:48]
Charlamagne tha God
A lot of people write for Drake, allegedly.
- [05:50]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, allegedly, man. But, you know, I don't think anything wrong with that. I don't think there's anything wrong with it either, but it was a blessing to. I mean, it's interesting because I'm an artist and people see me as a singer, they kind forget that I also produced a lot of big records. You know, my production game is pretty tight. So.
- [06:05]
Charlamagne tha God
You sound like a rap, though.
- [06:07]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, on purpose.
- [06:08]
Charlamagne tha God
Your lyrics are like that of a rapper. That's why when I see Freddie Gibbs on your records of being a butcher, it makes so much sense to me. You still in touch with anybody from Victorious?
- [06:17]
Leon Thomas
Absolutely, man. You know, I chop it up with Ari Avan Jogia is a really good friend of mine. You know, Matt Bennett, a lot of the cast, we all hang out and do lunch. It's kind of like my last two years of high school were with them, so that's like my graduating class. Essentially. We were all in school together, so, you know, we filmed, but we also went to school. So those are my really good friends.
- [06:38]
Charlamagne tha God
Salute to Victoria and her mom. I did a. I hosted a New Year's Eve special with them.
- [06:42]
Leon Thomas
Oh, for real?
- [06:42]
Charlamagne tha God
Back in the day.
- [06:43]
Leon Thomas
Oh, that's dope. That's dope.
- [06:45]
Charlamagne tha God
You ever wrote for Ariana?
- [06:46]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, actually, I worked with her on her first album. That was my first time going number one with an album. I did about like four songs on her first album, Yours Truly. Wow. So that was a real pleasure. Yeah.
- [06:58]
Charlamagne tha God
So you've been rich for a minute.
- [06:59]
Unknown
I was about to say, like, how did you know so young in, like, just being like, okay, I can act, I can dance, I can sing, but I can also go produce over here. Like, how? Because a lot of people wait to diversify until they're like, you know, exposed a little.
- [07:11]
Leon Thomas
I mean, shout out to Jermaine Dupri. He used to have this YouTube series called Living the Life. It was a Jermaine Dupree and Brian Michael Cox, and they were always in the studio, like, filming their process. And, you know, I saw them being rich black men, you know, also being able to be creative every day. And I wanted to kind of recreate that lifestyle for myself. Ryan Leslie as well, like, seeing a lot of his YouTube videos inspired me to, you know, open up logic and try to produce myself. You know, did you know you always.
- [07:36]
DJ Envy
Wanted to be an R and B singer? Like, was that the goal as a kid growing up, or did you always want to be an actor? And when did you pivot when you was like, all right, this is what I want to do?
- [07:43]
Leon Thomas
Listen, I feel like I did this role with Kathryn Bigelow. She's an Oscar award winning director. But I had to cut my dreads for it. And that was kinda like my last straw in acting. You know, I did this role for Detroit and I felt like, you know, I need to kinda tap back into who I am as an artist. And, you know, grew my dreads back, really got into my internal self meditating, really, like, tapping into who I am as a human being. And a lot of great music came out of that. You know, I always knew I wanted to be a singer, but I knew for a fact I needed to really present myself as who I truly was. It's so easy to play a character when you're always acting. You know, I needed to come to the world as my true self.
- [08:28]
Charlamagne tha God
Now you are Leon Thomas iii.
- [08:30]
Leon Thomas
Yeah.
- [08:30]
Charlamagne tha God
Did the first two Leons have any background in music?
- [08:34]
Leon Thomas
Not really. You know, but my grandfather, I didn't get a lot of time with my grandfather, but my dad always told me that he was a real lover of music. And my dad sings, but he's an assistant principal now. But my grandfather, who actually recently just passed, God bless his soul, John Anthony was an opera singer and was on Broadway and hello Dolly. And I used to be the music director for One Life to Live out here in New York. All of the soap operas back in the day. So, you know, I was definitely surrounded by music just through my mom and her side of the family.
- [09:07]
Charlamagne tha God
Oh, so your mom was the musician?
- [09:09]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, my mom's side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So. So my mom, Jion Anthony, she. She had a club day band in New York, used to play. Used to be the house band for the World Trade Center. You know, played a lot of the big clubs out here, and I just grew up backstage with her and, you know, just really hanging out, you know, learning. Learning music.
- [09:26]
Charlamagne tha God
So what was the Black Rock Coalition?
- [09:27]
Leon Thomas
So the Black Rock Coalition, there was clubs like CBGB's, an array of different clubs, where it was kind of awkward at a certain point in the 1980s where, you know, rock was created by us, but there was definitely elements of prejudice within that genre. And all of the black rock stars decided to come together. You know, the cast from Living Color, a bunch of them just all came together to really protect each other through moments of, you know, turmoil through that season of the 80s and early 90s. And it's just good to have each other's back, especially in a genre where you're not always celebrated when you were.
- [10:06]
Unknown
On the, like, the sets, when you, like, even with, like, Victorious and stuff like that. What was your mom and, like, your parents there often or. Oh, yeah, my mom, Ariana Grande, talked a lot about that too. Like how y'all parents were close.
- [10:17]
Leon Thomas
Nah, they were there. They were there. You know, my mom was never like a momager, like, over my. Over my shoulder kind of mom. But she was also very protective of my peace.
- [10:27]
Unknown
Got you.
- [10:28]
Leon Thomas
And mental health. Making sure that I'm just liking a good. A good space while I'm. While I'm trying to create something timeless and, you know, shout out to her for always, you know, creating safe spaces for me right throughout that Journey, you.
- [10:40]
Charlamagne tha God
Know, probably kept you from getting slimed. Yeah, yeah.
- [10:45]
Leon Thomas
Definitely nuts. Definitely nuts. You know, seeing. Seeing how everything definitely. It was definitely, definitely insane.
- [10:53]
Charlamagne tha God
Don't say that. Definitely nuts.
- [10:55]
Leon Thomas
I know, I know. You know, it's crazy. It's crazy because, you know, I just saw the doc not too long ago. It's definitely eye opening. And a lot of my castmates, we hopped on a Zoom call. We all wanted to talk about it, and, I mean, luckily during our seasons, it was very wholesome and chill. But, you know, shout out to anybody who dealt with anything bad. I mean, my heart definitely goes out to them.
- [11:22]
DJ Envy
Did you have a childhood growing up? Like, were you able to do things that normal kids did, or was it always, I'm on set, I'm working?
- [11:29]
Leon Thomas
Yeah. I mean, you know, to be completely real with you, I had a great childhood. My mom made sure that, you know, I had a good group of friends. I went to public school up until my last two years of high school. You know, I feel like having that grounded energy was definitely important for even me as a songwriter and a producer now and an artist. You know, I feel like, you know, I come from a very human place. It's not like I tried to detach from who I am organically. You know, the thing I love about.
- [11:59]
Charlamagne tha God
Your music, too, is number one. I can tell you got a sense of freedom.
- [12:03]
Leon Thomas
Yeah.
- [12:04]
Charlamagne tha God
So does that come with money, or does that come with just how you came up, you know, with your mom doing music? So you always felt free as an artist? Yeah.
- [12:11]
Leon Thomas
Yeah. I mean, you know, I think the greatest thing about being an artist is that it's a great representation of being a free black man. You know, like, you know, being able to wear what I want, you know, say what I want on record, is really important to me. You know, I try to stay as grounded and as real to who I am as I can be. I mean, I think it's really easy to want to be an artist and play a character who you think people want you to be. But I'm doing my best to just, like, kind of just say what I want, do what I want.
- [12:41]
Unknown
You know, when you come up with songs with, like, I like Feelings on Silent, with Wale. I love Wale. But songs like that, like, when I listen to it, each time I get something different from it. So the first time I listened, I was like, oh, this is like, guys just being like, we keep our feelings to ourself. And then the second time I listened, I'm like, this is the trauma that they deal with because, like, he mentions PTSD and a bunch of other things. Like, how do you. First of all, sitting back. You wrote that?
- [13:03]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I co wrote that.
- [13:05]
Unknown
Sitting back and writing it with him. How do you be like, okay, here's all the things that we want people to get when they hear this? Or do you guys just write and whatever people get, they get like, were you dealing with something yourself then? Or.
- [13:16]
Leon Thomas
You know, the way I wrote that record was really interesting. I was in Italy, actually. I was working with ye and Todd dollar sign on the Vultures 1 project. And we were at the Medici Estate, which is this really beautiful Four Seasons that they have out there. Beautiful garden. And I'm listening to the instrumental from Conductor Walking through the Garden. And I just had some lyrics kind of, you know, bubbling up in my head. Went back and we recorded it. But I think it was one of those moments that it was just kind of stream of consciousness. I didn't really think too hard on my sections. That was like my second take that you're hearing there. It wasn't like, me, like, kind of really punching in a bunch of different ideas. It was just kind of flowing. And when Wale heard it, that was probably the hardest verse to get. Cause we did probably.
- [14:03]
Unknown
Why did you come back outside? Cause he.
- [14:04]
Leon Thomas
We did, like, five sessions to get that one verse. But, yo, he's so talented, and seeing how he crafted his verse, I mean, he would do, like, five bars at a time. And he really cared about the poetry of it all, you know? And it's why I really respect him as an artist. He's just a true lyricist.
- [14:21]
Charlamagne tha God
Salute to my guy. Wale, you signed the Tired Dollar signs, right?
- [14:23]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, I am. Yeah.
- [14:24]
Charlamagne tha God
Okay.
- [14:24]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah, Easy money. And it's in conjunction with Motown Records. And just, you know, between Legacy and a new imprint, I think it's been really cool to kind of break around in R and B right now. It's been a real special thing.
- [14:37]
Charlamagne tha God
I don't feel like Motown Records is doing enough for you. I don't know why Leon Thomas is not in heavy rotation on every radio station across the planet. Whatever that button is that they need to push, it needs to be pushed.
- [14:49]
Leon Thomas
Nah, I appreciate it, man. Well, I feel like opportunities like this are really helpful. I feel like radio stations are definitely looking at platforms like this to say, okay, yeah, we feel comfortable trusting this new name and new face. I've been doing this a long time, but I still look at this as a new artist journey, because I really just started taking the artist journey Serious these last five years. So I'm really thankful for the growth. I'm thankful for the wins. And there's people working really hard at those labels with actually a lot of underfunding and collapsing of labels into one. It's just a lot of work and a lot of people are losing jobs. So people are afraid to push that button sometimes. It could be the demise of their entire career. So I really respect the work that they're doing. I just know that this year is going to be really special for me, man. I mean, I've been doing a lot of praying and manifesting for just new things and you know, this was definitely on my bucket list. So I'm just appreciative to be here.
- [15:48]
Charlamagne tha God
Have any program directors or DJs approached you and said, hey, if you slide me this under the table?
- [15:52]
Leon Thomas
Nah, nah, definitely not. Yeah, yeah, I'm going let you know, man, I got a new homie. A new big homie.
- [15:59]
DJ Envy
We got to congratulate you on your Grammy. We tell everybody that we helped with that because we played snooze every morning. Four times in the morning. 6:00am Yeah, 6:00am but you wrote Snooze.
- [16:09]
Leon Thomas
I produced on Snooze, man. Yo, first of all, let's clear this up. Shout out to Sza for writing that record. We were producing in a separate room and she heard the instrumental and was like, yo, what is that? And you know, there is something that I do where I like take my voice and I chop it up like a sample because clearing samples is really expensive and it cuts into the publishing. So rather than actually doing a sample, I'll just sing a little something, right? So she really liked that and then took it into the other room and wrote an amazing song. And being a part of the production on that with Babyface, legendary Babyface was a true pleasure, man. I mean, it was a real journey to see that song go from like a crowd favorite to a Grammy Award winning R and B song, man. That was definitely life changing for me.
- [16:54]
Charlamagne tha God
You got a production team, right? It's the Rascals.
- [16:56]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah, the Rascals. Me and Chris Tynes, man, we've been working together since we were like 18. So it's really cool to, to see the growth. I mean, we started off, you know, a little shaky when it came to production, but it's nice to see us, you know, really develop into the producers we are now. We had great mentors, man.
- [17:13]
Unknown
You have such big moments. Like, I thought I was tripping, but you just said these last what like, five years is when you feel like things started really moving for you as an artist.
- [17:20]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, as an artist.
- [17:21]
Unknown
Yeah. Cause I'm like, I know you outside of being an artist, but you have such big moments even before that and during that. But it's like, I don't know, like, when do you feel like things started, like, to click finally where people were like, oh, shoot, Leon. Like, we get it now.
- [17:34]
Leon Thomas
It's really interesting. I like to call it the Drake effect. When I was working. When I was working with Drake, all of a sudden, label executives who have known me for years were like, hey, I think you could be an artist, you know? And I was like, ah, okay. So I kind of peeped that, and I said, okay, well, let's just start. Let's start kind of building this out. But I knew I wanted that same formula that Drake had with Lil Wayne. And, you know, working with Ty Dollar Sign was a really smart move, not only because he's just an amazing artist, but because it was just nice to have a mentor who had done it already. So he's just kind of like, yo, try this. Make sure the look has this. Or, you know, even when it came to the music, like, here's how you really format an album. And, you know, I'm definitely doing a lot of studying, you know, Shout out to Todd Dallas on For Sure. He definitely, you know, saw something in me that a lot of label executives were not sure about, and it's cool to see it developing. How did you. Real time.
- [18:32]
DJ Envy
How did you and Ty Dollasoni?
- [18:33]
Leon Thomas
I was actually working on his album as a producer on featuring Ty Dollar Sign. I was, like, one of, I think, nine producers on a song with Kanye and Thundercat and a bunch of other people.
- [18:44]
Charlamagne tha God
Nine producers on one record?
- [18:46]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, because it's like, it was like 0.5. Like, I was just there, added this or that vocal in, like, some bass or something, and then. But. But he had everybody play their unreleased records, and I played him some of my first album as demos, and Todd was like, yo, you're really tight as an artist. He was like, man. And he was originally trying to record one of the songs that I had, but I was like, nah, I want you to feature on it. And over the years, we became really good friends. I was working with him a lot and just kind of developed into a whole situation with Sean Baron. Sean Baron is the guy who officially put it all together with easy money and Motown.
- [19:25]
Unknown
Is it tough navigating because people are getting to know you now and everybody's falling in love with your music now. And, like, you have such a close association with Drake. You have to, like, pick and choose where you go musically and what you do musically with who.
- [19:36]
Leon Thomas
You know. Honestly, she's asking, can you work with.
- [19:39]
Charlamagne tha God
Kendrick Lamar if you wanted to?
- [19:41]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that's what she's asking. I mean, the way I really look at it is just, like, on a political level. I make R and B, you know, Obviously I make hip hop too. But I'm really focused on my artist journey, so. I mean, Kendrick is such a huge artist. I don't really foresee us working together in the near future. And even with Drake, you know, I still wanna take my steps to really build on my own two feet as an artist. So I'm doing what I have to do right now to really, like, grow my own business. Touring is a big thing for me. I'm really focused on that. I'm hitting the road all this year and working on more records. So, I mean, shout out to everybody, but I'm definitely focused on me.
- [20:18]
Charlamagne tha God
I wanna ask you a business question about the production before we get into both of these great albums. But you. When you are part of the Rascals. Yeah, if y'all produce, but then you write, how do y'all. Do you get another check for writing? Is that two different checks or.
- [20:31]
Leon Thomas
You know, publishing is interesting because you want to leave room for the artist. But I would definitely ask for more percentages if we were really heavily involved in the writing as well. But. But it's. It's just an interesting thing, you know, I try to. We try to keep it pretty even on the most part when it comes to production, especially if everybody was in the room from the beginning of the record.
- [20:55]
Charlamagne tha God
What if it's your pen is there? It's everybody's production with your pin right now. Slice of the pie.
- [21:01]
Leon Thomas
I mean, it's like 50 50, so. So, you know, you have. The first 50 is the production side, and the way I look at it is melody and drums, you know, and then the second 50 is, you know, just the writing side. And it's just based off of how much you ended up writing of the song. Because a lot of artists are very involved with their storyline and lyrics and hook ideas. So I have no problem splitting that 25 there. And then if I got 15 on the production or 25 on the production, now I got 50% of a record.
- [21:29]
DJ Envy
Do y'all talk about that while y'all doing it, or.
- [21:31]
Leon Thomas
Cause it can be nasty.
- [21:33]
Unknown
It just flows and it's like, yo, we won't bother.
- [21:36]
DJ Envy
I'm only giving you 2%, trust me.
- [21:37]
Leon Thomas
We've definitely been through some things, you know, after the fact, people get amnesia. But I think, you know, it's really easier when you figure that out the day it happens. You know, we used to have split sheets there at the studio, which I thought was a really good practice, but we kinda let go of that.
- [21:56]
Unknown
So would you pull out your phone and just in your notes, be like, I put this there? Like, how do you keep up? Cause you just.
- [22:01]
Leon Thomas
That's why it's just way easier. And I think smarter to just split everything even, you know, if you can.
- [22:08]
Unknown
Hardest is doing that, though. People wanna keep what they can get.
- [22:11]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah. I mean, some artists with us, they are. Especially if we writing and producing a song, you know?
- [22:15]
Unknown
Gotcha.
- [22:15]
DJ Envy
How is it with Kanye, though, when you do splits and stuff like that?
- [22:18]
Leon Thomas
Oh, Lord. Oh, Lor. It's a little interesting, man. But, you know, shout out to him. I feel like that experience was like, more so just school for me on a production level. I've never seen anybody be so magical with their imagination. He would have these ideas, and it was so cool to see teams of people make that a reality. And I think that's what I could take from that. I mean, publishing's important, but, you know, it's the true life experience. From seeing a free black man put stuff together was, like, really tight.
- [22:49]
Charlamagne tha God
How old were you when you realized Vibes Don't Lie? One of my favorite records. How old were you when you first realized Vibes Don't Lie?
- [22:57]
Leon Thomas
I think that was definitely early 20s. I think LA is filled with facades and people who are pretending to be something they aren't. People who move from their hometown and create a whole new Persona. So I think for me, just really studying folks, especially a lot of the women you deal with out there, it's really important to. To study their actions and not their words.
- [23:18]
Charlamagne tha God
I love the fact that you are encouraging women to keep their pussy healthy.
- [23:23]
Leon Thomas
Yes, I am.
- [23:24]
Charlamagne tha God
Okay. Did you ever want to be a gynecologist?
- [23:26]
Leon Thomas
No, that wasn't proper pussy health. No, no, no, no. That wasn't on the list. I just listen, man. Yeah, I just listen. I just listen, man. So you.
- [23:34]
Charlamagne tha God
They tell you, like, hey, my pussy's not feeling the best today.
- [23:37]
Leon Thomas
No, I mean, I just think ph balances a conversation and, you know, I just listen, man.
- [23:41]
Unknown
Smell something.
- [23:42]
Charlamagne tha God
Smell something. That's what it was.
- [23:44]
DJ Envy
Smell something.
- [23:45]
Charlamagne tha God
That's what it was. Cause you was very, very, very Specific. You said, she only drink water. She keep that pussy healthy.
- [23:52]
Unknown
They said on Twitter, you be talking crazy like that, but you sing it so people can't be back. Yeah, they can't really, like. So you have that conversation in real life with your home. Like, you're not your homegirl. You're already home. Honestly.
- [24:01]
Leon Thomas
You know what? I'm just big on shock value. I think songs, especially R and B songs, have gotten a bit. Not boring, but I think we've kind of already hit the golden era of R and B. So I'm just finding new ways to make people's ears perk up and their minds move. I think social media and podcasts are really interesting to me. You know, these phone mics bring out so many conversations. And I think as an R and B artist, I want to find ways to let that live on the record. And it doesn't always have to be, like, verbatim of what I'm going through in real life. I think it's important to create the drama. You know, I kind of see music as, you know, script and a score. So sometimes the records are just, like, really good dramatizations of, like, what I'm seeing in the world.
- [24:45]
Charlamagne tha God
You've encountered some unhealthy vaginas. Don't lie.
- [24:47]
Unknown
I'm gonna say. So you.
- [24:48]
Leon Thomas
I mean, I think everybody.
- [24:49]
Unknown
But, like, how. But like, how does that go for you now?
- [24:52]
Leon Thomas
I mean, I don't think. I don't think it's now or, like.
- [24:55]
Unknown
Women expecting you to be like, all right, here's the check. Like, how do you. Cause you got the songs. Like, they're there.
- [24:59]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah. You know, I definitely got the songs, but I think it's just important to be honest with your partner. You know, communicate. But I think it's a pretty interesting conversation I try to stay out of if I don't have to. You know what I'm saying?
- [25:10]
Charlamagne tha God
You ever did the air wax test?
- [25:12]
Leon Thomas
No. I don't even know what that is. You putting me on right now with.
- [25:15]
Charlamagne tha God
A ear wax test your ear a little bit. There's a little wax on it. Put a little pinky. Put the pinky inside her.
- [25:22]
Leon Thomas
Hold on. What is that?
- [25:23]
Charlamagne tha God
She got something.
- [25:24]
DJ Envy
What?
- [25:25]
Charlamagne tha God
That's right. Ain't as healthy as it should be.
- [25:28]
DJ Envy
If you listen.
- [25:30]
Leon Thomas
Yo, that scene, you should do it on yourself.
- [25:32]
DJ Envy
I don't know where he got.
- [25:34]
Unknown
You do.
- [25:35]
Charlamagne tha God
That is nuts.
- [25:36]
DJ Envy
That's some South Carolina back road thing that they do. It doesn't. Do not try.
- [25:40]
Leon Thomas
That works.
- [25:42]
Unknown
He. That doesn't. Your mom Never told you you got stomach ache. Go drink ginger ale.
- [25:47]
Charlamagne tha God
We ain't talking about stomach aches. We talking about penis.
- [25:49]
Unknown
People think ginger ale cure everything. Not ear wax. Don't listen to him.
- [26:00]
Leon Thomas
That's why you sing that.
- [26:02]
Charlamagne tha God
Delaware is crazy.
- [26:03]
Unknown
My grandma used to be like, go get some ginger ale and lay down.
- [26:06]
Leon Thomas
Wow.
- [26:06]
Unknown
About everything.
- [26:07]
Leon Thomas
Yeah. Nah, nah, nah. We love ginger ale around here.
- [26:12]
Charlamagne tha God
One thing I don't respect is what you did on how fast, though.
- [26:16]
Leon Thomas
Oh, what's up? What's up? Oh, the Honda.
- [26:17]
Charlamagne tha God
You shit on people in Hondas? No. Why?
- [26:19]
Leon Thomas
No.
- [26:20]
Charlamagne tha God
What's wrong with Honda? It's one of the most reliable car brands ever.
- [26:22]
Leon Thomas
I love a good Honda. My dad has a Honda. I love Hondas. Here's the deal. It was a quick bar. You know, I was just in the booth whining. I don't really have a problem with it. I think it was just more so I was just flowing, you know? And I'm big on not doing too many edits. Like, when I record a record, it's like what's coming to my mind on the first or second take is what's gonna be there, you know? And I like to stand on my first mind. And it was more so just talking about the competition being slower than I am. Cause I'm moving at such a fast pace, you know, the metaphor was about that. It had nothing to do with Honda.
- [26:55]
Charlamagne tha God
What was your first car?
- [26:56]
Leon Thomas
But a Honda, you know, compared to a Lamborghini is pretty slow. Nope, no.
- [27:02]
Charlamagne tha God
Civics are more reliable. Civics will stick with you like herpes, bro. They beat you forever.
- [27:05]
Leon Thomas
Yeah.
- [27:06]
Charlamagne tha God
What was your first car?
- [27:07]
Leon Thomas
My first car was a Ben CLK500. Damn.
- [27:10]
Unknown
He been getting money for. We just talked about his career.
- [27:14]
Leon Thomas
Ultima, like, no, no, no. That was my first one. Yeah.
- [27:19]
Charlamagne tha God
Did your therapist really tell you that you're too detached? Or is that just something you tell women so you don't commit?
- [27:25]
Leon Thomas
Nah, I think. I think you know, that bar for me. I have a co writer, Bizzy Crook, and he lives in Miami. Great rapper. That was a bar that came from him. He's very deep into therapy. But I'm glad that we talked about it on record, because, I mean, it's something that I definitely did try out over the pandemic. And it's something that I actually really respect you a lot for championing, you know? Thank you, brother. But yeah, that was a bar from Bizzy, but I thought it was important to add in there, you know?
- [27:52]
Unknown
Don't try to blame Bizzy now.
- [27:53]
Leon Thomas
Nah. I mean, yo, that's my co writer. You know, shout out to him, you know what I'm saying? Like, we write a lot of our songs together and I really respect a lot of the perspectives he brings to a lot of my poignant records. You know, he has some great bars.
- [28:09]
Unknown
When I listen to Dancing with the Demons, do you ever get like Miguel references sometimes?
- [28:14]
Leon Thomas
Absolutely, yeah.
- [28:15]
Unknown
Cause I was listening and I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, I wonder if. Like that, like, are y'all, do you know him?
- [28:20]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, that's like my big bro. We actually did a movie together. He was in Detroit, the one I had to cut my hair for. He was an amazing, an amazing mentor for me for some years. And you know, that bridge between the.
- [28:34]
Unknown
New year is here and you want to stay locked in on whatever you're into. Amazon prime is a cheat code. See, a lot of people think Amazon prime is just about getting those packages delivered faster than you can say, I forgot to order that. But really, prime is not just one thing. It's all things. A place to stream movies and shows with Prime Video, Amazon Music and that free one day, same day delivery is everything you need to make the season stress free. Picture this, you're watching Thursday Night Football and Prime Video and the friends are coming through. You need the last minute snacks and drinks. Prime's got you. You want to kick back and chill after the game. Prime Video's got the movies and shows to keep your night rolling. And if you want to wind down, Amazon Music's got the playlist to keep the vibe just right. So whether you're hosting, chilling, or just trying to make it through the hustle of the week, I know I'm doing all things above. Just know Prime's got your back. It helps you explore, discover and get more of what you love all in one place. So visit Amazon.comprime to get more of whatever you're into. Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com prime now.
- [29:41]
DJ Envy
The world is constantly changing. It's up to you to decide how to respond. Choose to be bold. To try something new. Choose to reinvent yourself. That's what Nissan did with the all new, totally reimagined Kicks. The dynamic new exterior styling immediately announces that Nissan isn't messing around. The interior, a completely redesigned cabin with premium features like wireless Apple Carplay and a panoramic moonroof make driving a Kicks immersive and exciting. And with new performance and safety features like intelligent all wheel drive, the Kicks is both fun and safer to Drive than ever before. It is the dawning of a brand new era for the Nissan Kicks. Only one question remains. Is it a new era for you as well? Drive the all new reimagined Nissan Kicks.
- [30:22]
Unknown
Today Available Features compatible device service and consumer activation of Nissan Connect services package Required use only when safe and legal. Subject to third party service availability. For more information, see nissanusa.com connect legal Apple CarPlay is a trademark of Apple Inc. Intelligent all wheel drive cannot prevent collisions or provide enhanced traction in all conditions. Always monitor traffic and weather conditions.
- [30:38]
Jason Alexander
I'm Jason Alexander.
- [30:40]
Peter Tilden
And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the really Know really.
- [30:43]
Jason Alexander
Podcast, our mission is to get the true edge answers to life's baffling questions.
- [30:47]
Peter Tilden
Like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor.
- [30:51]
Jason Alexander
We got the answer.
- [30:52]
Peter Tilden
Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by.
- [31:11]
Jason Alexander
Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us.
- [31:12]
Charlamagne tha God
How are you?
- [31:13]
Peter Tilden
Hello, my friend Wayne Knight. About Jurassic Park.
- [31:15]
Jason Alexander
Wayne Knight, welcome to really no really, sir.
- [31:18]
Leon Thomas
Bless you all.
- [31:19]
Peter Tilden
Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging.
- [31:24]
Leon Thomas
Really?
- [31:24]
Charlamagne tha God
That's the opening.
- [31:25]
Leon Thomas
Really?
- [31:25]
Charlamagne tha God
No.
- [31:26]
Leon Thomas
Really? Yeah, really? No really.
- [31:27]
Jason Alexander
Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win.
- [31:30]
Peter Tilden
500 a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition sign Jason Bobblehead.
- [31:34]
Jason Alexander
It's called really no really? And you can find it on the iHeartRadio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [31:44]
Questlove
Sup, y'all? This is Questlove and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the story pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids. Starting on September 27th, I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records Neme to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out.
- [32:10]
Unknown
Hey, y'all, Nimini here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop.
- [32:22]
Charlamagne tha God
Smash, Slam.
- [32:23]
Leon Thomas
Another one gone. Bash. Bam. Another one gone. The cracker, the bat. And another one gone. The tip for the Cap Cause another one gone.
- [32:31]
Unknown
Each episode is about half a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15 year old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me.
- [32:48]
Did you know?
- [32:49]
Did you know I wouldn't give up my seat? Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to historical records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to historical records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [33:13]
Leon Thomas
R and B and rock and roll. He's traveled across that bridge many a time. I definitely look up to him when it comes to that. And you know, for me, because I play multiple instruments, you know, I definitely try to just embody a, a lot of that energy. But I think we both have the same influences as well.
- [33:30]
Charlamagne tha God
I agree with Lauren on that. Miguel, to me, before you was the last great R and B male R and B singer. To me, I'm just talking about the new guys. I'm not talking about, you know, the OG legend. I'm talking about, he was the last one to me. And I felt the same way when I heard Dancing with the Demons. I feel like you're talking to yourself on that record though.
- [33:49]
Leon Thomas
I am, I am. You know, you can't seem to see me. I was microdosing. I was microdosing on shrooms for a lot of like those batch of records. And it's like a very interesting thing because it connects your neural pathways in a certain way and you kind of start looking inward a lot more. And you know, that record was definitely like an internal conversation just on wax.
- [34:12]
Charlamagne tha God
Yeah. You said you can't seem to save yourself Never learn to ask for help Going out all night searching for. So, so what, what, what have you learned to ask for help?
- [34:22]
Unknown
It's a one what I thought because I took it as like it wasn't talking about a woman.
- [34:26]
Leon Thomas
No, I mean it's, it's, it's interesting for me. Like that record, when I wrote it, I wrote it in two different days. The first day I was, you know, microdosing on shrooms, so it's a bit of a haze. The next day I listened to it and I was like, man, this is really poignant stuff. I mean, it's just really talking about being up all night and searching for a feeling and it's trying to fill voids. I feel like as you know, when you're in Your single journey, you can try to fill a void with a stranger, and that's not always very healthy, but it's fun. It could be fun. It could be fun, for sure, but. And then, especially when you're in the limelight, the second verse is more so. Talking about being in the limelight and trying to fill voids. Nobody really talks about the darkness that comes with the flashing lights. And, yeah, that record was very deep and very personal for me. You know, I'm glad that people resonate with it.
- [35:17]
Charlamagne tha God
You said, never learn to ask for help.
- [35:19]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, Well, I mean, I think it's. It's really interesting because one of the experiences I had with therapy was I was with a therapist, and I'm talking about all this deep stuff in my life and, you know, trying to unpack things. And at the end of it, he's like, have you ever been to a basketball game? Courtside? What's that? Like, he just started asking, like, all this stuff about being famous, essentially. And I don't know, it was just like an awkward moment for me, a place where I thought I could be safe in that one instance. Since then, I've found a really good therapist. But in that moment, it was definitely one of those things where it was like, damn. It's hard to ask for help, because even when you ask for it, sometimes you don't get the right kind.
- [36:00]
Charlamagne tha God
I think when you're a black man, especially a black man in your position, it's hard to find culturally competent therapists because there's a lot of things that you're going to deal with that you're going to want somebody to understand, right?
- [36:12]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Absolutely, man. But, you know, shout out to the great therapists out there, you know, definitely. It's definitely a amazing journey that I'm trying to dig back into a lot more as I continue to grow as a human being.
- [36:26]
DJ Envy
Now, you was talking about microdosing on shrooms. Where does that put your mind? And do you always do that to produce and write?
- [36:32]
Leon Thomas
Nah, nah. I mean, I think. I think for this album, it was an interesting opportunity to kind of unplug. I mean, I wasn't doing as many shows around that time, too, so it was really helpful to kind of just get into my own head and try to figure out who I am. You know, I definitely did a lot of manifesting a lot of just, like, writing down who I wanted to be as a human being around that time. A lot of journaling, you know, and looking back at that season in my life, it was A journey for me to evolve into who I am right now. I wouldn't suggest people just go super crazy on shrooms or anything, but I think microdosing a small amount could be healthy if you're trying to just find yourself at that time. I was trying to find myself. Yeah.
- [37:16]
Charlamagne tha God
I microdose. I microdose too.
- [37:18]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah.
- [37:19]
Charlamagne tha God
They don't really do nothing for me though. It just makes me. It feels like everything is in hd, right?
- [37:23]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah. But I mean, if you got real things that you're trying to deal with internally, I think it can put that in HD as well.
- [37:29]
Charlamagne tha God
Ayahuasca.
- [37:30]
Leon Thomas
Yeah. Now, see that, that, I mean, you know, I feel like I need to go down and live some more life before I really hit that Will Smith journey. You know, he always talks about ayahuasca and stuff.
- [37:40]
Charlamagne tha God
But you only do it when it calls you.
- [37:42]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, exactly.
- [37:43]
Charlamagne tha God
And like, for me, it was calling me for like six, I'd say about six years, seven years it was calling me. I did it for the first time last year.
- [37:48]
Leon Thomas
Oh, wow, wow, wow. How was that for you?
- [37:51]
Charlamagne tha God
Incredible. I did a three day journey, man.
- [37:54]
Leon Thomas
Yeah. Yeah. My boy, his dad runs like a whole situation and I think Mexico or something for like ayahuasca and stuff. So I don't know, maybe one day.
- [38:03]
Unknown
You said you were trying to find yourself. Did you find yourself?
- [38:06]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, but I mean, I feel like that's a constant journey. That's like the whole part of finding yourself. You, you realize it, it never stops because we're always evolving, you know? But it's. It's great that I was able to do it through music. That, that, that was like a version of musical therapy for me. And I'm glad that people are resonating.
- [38:21]
Charlamagne tha God
With it, you know, I love how you're normalizing dogs. I'm not a dog anymore. There is a young, unhealed version of me that would have really appreciated that record because you make it sound so fun. It's almost like women are just gonna bring you in, like, oh, come in, you straight dog. Let me domesticate you.
- [38:40]
Leon Thomas
Nah. I mean, I was really just documenting what I saw.
- [38:44]
Charlamagne tha God
Cut it out.
- [38:44]
Leon Thomas
But nah, nah, nah. It's definitely. It's definitely parts of me. It's definitely parts of me Post.
- [38:50]
Unknown
Now you document.
- [38:52]
Leon Thomas
There was definitely parts of me post, you know, post breakup, where I just had to figure it out. But I think that's all a part of living, you know?
- [39:00]
DJ Envy
Do you get nervous, though?
- [39:02]
Leon Thomas
This was a post breakup, like, album. Yeah, yeah. This was a post breakup Album. So this is me documenting, you know, finding myself first off, like, you know, you're kind of broken after that, and then you gotta. You gotta put the pieces back together.
- [39:14]
Charlamagne tha God
Her fault? Yes.
- [39:15]
Leon Thomas
Nah, it's not her fault. I mean, it's our fault, you know.
- [39:17]
Charlamagne tha God
Listen, listen, Leon. It's her fault that you ended up being a dog. You went through your whole phase.
- [39:20]
Leon Thomas
It's her fault. Hey, Bet.
- [39:23]
Unknown
But wait, so when you did Electric Dust, you said that you were happily single during that project, too?
- [39:28]
Leon Thomas
Yeah.
- [39:28]
Unknown
So then you got in a relationship after that.
- [39:30]
Leon Thomas
Here's the deal. When I was. When I was making Mutt, When I was making Mutt, it was at the same time that I had released Electric Dust. Like, I started Mutt at the exact same time that I was releasing the Electric Dust. So we were at our tail end when I was doing how fast of our relationship. And then everything after that was breakup. So the first record was, like, the only season where we were still together. And then, like, after that was me just kind of, you know, combing through my brain, trying to figure things out. Nights in la, wilding out. You know what I'm saying? But I think it all turned into great music, so, you know, I'm glad I'm here to tell the story.
- [40:11]
Charlamagne tha God
Did a woman ever tell you that for real? Like, take your time. Don't you rush and you like.
- [40:15]
Leon Thomas
Well, I mean, you know, I don't know. I think that's an interesting bar because. Yeah, yeah, there's definitely a time, you know, Take your time. Slow down, baby. Yeah.
- [40:25]
Charlamagne tha God
I think everybody should go through their whole phases, Men and women. Like, you should go through that phase where you get to just be free and be who you are and explore and lay down with who you want to lay down with.
- [40:34]
DJ Envy
Scared of that whole face with brothers, man.
- [40:36]
Leon Thomas
Yeah.
- [40:36]
DJ Envy
It's nasty out there.
- [40:39]
Unknown
Like, you're super famous. Everything about you is super recognizable. So how do you. Like, I don't know if you out the whole phase yet or not, but.
- [40:45]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [40:46]
DJ Envy
How do you avoid the.
- [40:47]
Leon Thomas
How did you.
- [40:48]
Unknown
Cause we ain't hear about you. You ain't hear the shit.
- [40:49]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I think it's just important to really stay focused on being grounded and nice to people and communicate. You know, that was the biggest thing. But I'm definitely in a journey of, you know, trying to find my person right now. I know that may sound corny to certain people, but I think, you know, for me, I've seen so many examples of huge artists, very rich people who don't necessarily have love and a support system around them outside of their family. And I wanna build that for myself in my 30s. You know, I'm 31 right now, so I'm looking forward to, like, having that, you know, at the end of it all.
- [41:23]
Charlamagne tha God
You got about five more years.
- [41:24]
Leon Thomas
Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, you know, when you.
- [41:26]
DJ Envy
Find that person, figure it out. Yeah.
- [41:28]
Leon Thomas
When I find the right person, I'm locking that down. Yeah.
- [41:30]
Charlamagne tha God
It's gonna be hard for you to find that right person because of who you are. You know what I'm saying? Like, I've known my woman for 26 years. I ain't been with this woman for 30. 30 years.
- [41:37]
Leon Thomas
You know what I mean?
- [41:38]
Charlamagne tha God
So it's just like you. It's gonna be hard for you just because you are Leon Thomas. You don't even know if girls like you for you. For real?
- [41:44]
Leon Thomas
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'll figure it out.
- [41:48]
Charlamagne tha God
I think it's very commendable, too, that on the song Safe Place, you let the person you're dealing with know this isn't a safe place.
- [41:55]
Leon Thomas
Yeah. Yeah.
- [41:56]
Charlamagne tha God
What inspired that?
- [41:58]
Leon Thomas
I mean, I think knowing that I wasn't necessarily ready to settle down, I think that conversation definitely came up a lot during. I guess you would call it my Hoeface. You know, just understanding. Like, yo, I'm not trying to settle down. This is a fun place. You know, this is a time period where I'm just figuring me out. Work is crazy. It's hectic, you know, And I think having that conversation was important to, like you said, just avoid people not understanding what it was at the time.
- [42:27]
Charlamagne tha God
How does that feel, Lauren? Like, when you're a woman and a guy comes to you and a guy says, I'm a dog, I'm a muddart. God says, look, baby, we can kick it, but this ain't a safe place.
- [42:35]
Unknown
I think it depends on the type of woman you are.
- [42:37]
DJ Envy
Well, you know, she's that person. She's the one that tells us, first.
- [42:43]
Leon Thomas
Of all, the way they tell it.
- [42:45]
Unknown
Don'T listen to them. Like, don't listen to them. No, I think.
- [42:47]
Charlamagne tha God
Are we lying?
- [42:48]
Unknown
You are lying. I think that you can appreciate honesty, but I also think that the honesty is unrealistic on both sides because eventually, if you're spending enough time together, regardless of what space it's not, you kind of get in the habit, even if you're not attached. No, not of lying, but, like, of wanting to be with that person so that it becomes consistent then emotions and Feelings come that you both said in the beginning weren't gonna happen, right? But that doesn't work out. The safe space becomes. It's exploding now. Cause everybody's all over the place emotionally.
- [43:14]
Leon Thomas
That's something I didn't really, you know, identify in the song. But, yeah, she's honest and personal.
- [43:18]
DJ Envy
Cause you're honest in music. But it's difficult to be face to face with somebody and be like, this is very difficult.
- [43:24]
Leon Thomas
It's very difficult. But I try my. You know, I really try my best to be as honest as I can, you know? But, yeah, those are hard conversations, man. You know, I can't sit here and say I've always done it right, or I'm perfect or anything. But I try. I try to be, like, real, you know, I try to explain myself. But even when you explain yourself, sometimes wires get crossed, you know? So unpacking it and communicating, you know, is an important thing later on.
- [43:49]
Charlamagne tha God
Yeah. Don't no woman want to hear that shit after she just let you hit Raw.
- [43:51]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah. It's nuts.
- [43:53]
Unknown
Has a woman ever said that to you when you were trying to, like, create like a. All right, maybe this is, like, a thing. And she's like, yo, I like you, but I don't want to do that to you.
- [44:02]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, actually, yeah. Yeah. In my early 20s, I was talking to this amazing artist, and, yeah, she was just like, listen, baby, this ain't a safe place kind of thing. Anybody we know now she's like, no, no, no. I don't think you got teared up a little bit. Yeah, no, no, no. It was all good for me. I mean, at that point, the shades are fogging up.
- [44:20]
Charlamagne tha God
I ain't gonna lie.
- [44:22]
DJ Envy
You teared up a little bit.
- [44:23]
Leon Thomas
But, yeah, yeah, you know, it was definitely, you know, it was definitely a realization for me. I was like, oh, but it can happen on that side, too. I was like 20, maybe 21, you know?
- [44:32]
DJ Envy
You cried in the car.
- [44:33]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah. So I was like, real young and kind of, you know, green. Like, oh, okay. All right, bet.
- [44:37]
Charlamagne tha God
Cool.
- [44:37]
DJ Envy
So you all looking for a relationship now? If the right person, yeah.
- [44:40]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah. I'm definitely in that mode right now, you know?
- [44:43]
Unknown
Are you dating? Would you date other, like, artists, celebrities, or do you, like, how does that work? Are you doing that?
- [44:48]
Leon Thomas
It's just hectic. I mean, you kind of inviting the media into your life, like the one safe place you have. But. But, I mean, who knows if I really catch a vibe of somebody who happens to be fan. I mean, I don't really Care about that side of things, you know, I've been in the game a long time. I've met some beautiful women who are amazing artists, but it's just about the human being, you know, and it can be tough to really build something if both of your schedules are super hectic. So I don't know, even that's difficult though.
- [45:16]
Charlamagne tha God
Cause you could be dating a female artist who might be using you for your pen, who might be using you for your production.
- [45:21]
Leon Thomas
You never know. You never know. But I mean, regardless, I feel like there's. It doesn't matter. There's always an ebb and flow of like people using you for something, you know, It's a give and take, no matter how you really look at it. I think it's just important to at least be with somebody who genuinely cares. And unpacking enough to get behind the facade that is the first six month filter, I like to call it, when people are acting all upright and righteous, you know, after those six months, you can really usually unpack and find like a good idea of who that person is.
- [45:52]
Charlamagne tha God
So what does a safe place look like for Leon to.
- [45:54]
Leon Thomas
A safe place, you know, for me is being able to be honest with that person. And I'm goofy in real life, you know, So I wanna have fun. You know, life can be kind of serious. So I like my partner to be able to have a good time with me, you know, watch movies, go kick it, run around, you know, like be a big kid with me.
- [46:15]
Charlamagne tha God
You also, you had an interesting line in the song in Safe Place where you say you put that on your trombone. And like, trauma is something that we're all trying to heal from. You said it like it was like a badge of honor, almost. Like I didn't even say, you put that on my mama.
- [46:27]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, put that on my mama.
- [46:28]
Charlamagne tha God
Put that on the homies, whatever. But why do you put that on the trauma? Like, what does that mean?
- [46:33]
Leon Thomas
I mean, I think it all kind of plays into the reasoning for why it's not a safe place, you know, but it was a bit of a badge of honor in that record. For sure. For sure. Because I think we should be able to wear our traumas in a way of being survivors of epic things and being able to move past that and evolve from that, you know?
- [46:58]
DJ Envy
Well, listen, you wanna get into. Join off that.
- [47:00]
Charlamagne tha God
I wanna ask him a question too about another record. Far fetched. Yeah, you said. Cause we was having a big conversation this week about tricking. Cause you know, Skip Bayless allegedly offered somebody 1.5 million.
- [47:10]
Leon Thomas
Oh, my God.
- [47:11]
Charlamagne tha God
And you say paid for my mistakes in Benzes and diamonds. 250 fronted like you was my artist. Five G's just across the. We sat in silence for almost two hours.
- [47:20]
Unknown
Yeah, that's a horrible vacation.
- [47:22]
Charlamagne tha God
A quarter million dollars.
- [47:23]
Leon Thomas
Yeah.
- [47:23]
Charlamagne tha God
Benzes and Diamonds.
- [47:25]
Leon Thomas
Well, listen, when I wrote that record, it was not for me. That was not a joint that I was originally gonna use for me. It was for somebody really famous and really rich. But I just loved the way it sounded. And I was like, well, you know what? I love to speak in a world where I can actually afford that. Why not? Let's manifest that. Let's go.
- [47:43]
Charlamagne tha God
Don't you feel as an R and B artist, though, when you write records for other people, but then you sing them yourself, you're setting an expectation that's not real for you. Cause if I'm sitting here, I'm like, this is art.
- [47:54]
Leon Thomas
It's art, you know, Like, I mean, I look at artists like Black Sabbath. Ozzy Osbourne really wasn't eating that. Like, but it's like. It's so funny because, like, in. Like in. Well, accidentally. But the whole thing is that in rock and roll and pop, they get to live in these fantasy worlds. But it's so interesting in R and B and hip hop. It's like, so has to be so real and culture based. And it's like, nah. I think it's important for us to be able to imagine and dream and create worlds that don't exist sometimes. Cause I think that won't stifle new artists from continuing to do the same thing, like dream up the biggest thing. You know, Drake even said in some of his bars back in the day, he was talking about Rolls Royces and Bentleys and shit that he just didn't have, you know, at the time. So it's essentially me doing the same thing. And I always speak, you know, future, future focused, you know, abundance, mindset. You know, I'm trying to build a world where, you know, I can definitely, definitely afford that. So why not?
- [48:56]
Charlamagne tha God
Oh, so you would trick. You would give a girl 20ft, though.
- [48:58]
Leon Thomas
You know what? That's not how I'd be spending my money. Charlamagne. But just the fact that I could afford it, you know, let's go in.
- [49:06]
Charlamagne tha God
Lucid dreams, you talk about your significant other leaving things behind.
- [49:10]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, that was a fun record. With Masego after a breakup.
- [49:13]
Charlamagne tha God
Why do you think that topic is taboo?
- [49:15]
Leon Thomas
I don't really consider it taboo necessarily, but I think it's just like, it's just funny. Cause for me, I was living with my ex for, like, a couple years, so she just had, like, a closet filled with clothes at my crib. And it had been like a year and a half since we had broken up. So we were in the studio talking about different things. The guitarist and producer on that song Freaky Rob, his girl left a flat screen at the house that he had to use to watch Netflix. He was like, man, when is she gonna take this flat screen? And, you know, Masego also had a similar situation like that at his crib with the couch. So we were all just kinda using all of our different experiences, putting it into a song and, you know, just locking it in.
- [49:58]
Charlamagne tha God
It's different when it's closed, though.
- [50:00]
Leon Thomas
Yeah.
- [50:00]
Unknown
Did you clear. You cleared out?
- [50:01]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, definitely clears out the. Yeah, yeah. Cleared out the closet.
- [50:04]
Unknown
Did you move out of the apartment or you just cleared out the closet?
- [50:06]
Leon Thomas
You still. Nah, I'm still at the crib. You know what I mean? Still at the crib. You know, there's definitely certain interior design choices. I'm gonna switch up soon, but this.
- [50:14]
Unknown
Is, like, real recent.
- [50:15]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [50:17]
Charlamagne tha God
You think these labels know how to market R and B nowadays, Especially male R and B?
- [50:21]
Leon Thomas
I think it's kind of interesting because we used to have 106 and park. We used to have, like, a different perspective on R and B. And I feel like the fantasy could be alive in a different way. You know, a lot of the music is driven by culture recently, which I think is dope. But R and B is definitely a place of fantasy. You know, Jodeci in the desert and leather, like, you know, it's like a very ethereal place sometimes when you really look at it. So I think it's really tough for labels to find that balance. And especially because most R and B artists are, like, really inspired by alternative music. So, you know, you got, you know, your babies of sza, you know, Brandt and Miguel even, and it's kind of hard. It's not the same thing. They used to have to market and a lot of the same executives.
- [51:09]
DJ Envy
Right. Cause if you think about it, before, the label gave people what they wanted to hear.
- [51:13]
Leon Thomas
Oh, for sure.
- [51:14]
DJ Envy
But now it's like you put out an album, and it's almost like they wait to see what song connects first.
- [51:17]
Leon Thomas
Exactly.
- [51:17]
DJ Envy
Mutt connects. So we gonna go with Mutt. Dance With Demons connects. So I think you give people too much of an option and allow people to pick their own song.
- [51:24]
Charlamagne tha God
Even when they connect, they still don't know what the hell to do.
- [51:27]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, I mean, it's. It's tough. It's tough, man. It's tough. I definitely don't envy their seat right now trying to figure out how to navigate through nine different platforms. Social media, a TikTok that's about to go away in a couple months. And, like, Frank McCourt's gonna buy it. You think so?
- [51:42]
Charlamagne tha God
Frank McCourt's goin by it, I bet.
- [51:44]
Leon Thomas
But regardless, the shit's fucking nuts. Like, everybody's trying to figure it out. Like, it's really hard to. It's really hard to deal with.
- [51:51]
Charlamagne tha God
So.
- [51:52]
Leon Thomas
Yeah.
- [51:52]
Charlamagne tha God
And it don't feel like it's a separation either. Right. Because if I look at Leon Thomas, he looks like a rapper kinda.
- [51:59]
Leon Thomas
Yeah.
- [51:59]
Charlamagne tha God
You know what I mean? Like, there used to be a look.
- [52:01]
Unknown
To R B singing, but your aesthetic is, like, fashion. Your shows, like, the lighting. I don't know if you did that on purpose, but, like, the light shoes and stuff like that, it all gives, like, a artsy, creative, like, hipster vibe. But, like.
- [52:12]
Charlamagne tha God
Yeah, I'm just doing what I want.
- [52:15]
Leon Thomas
I mean, I'm doing what I want, man. You know, I'm really just. I'm really just rocking, you know? I mean, I think for those of us out there in the R and B world who wanna have the six pack and do the gyrating and the baby oil and shit, do your thing.
- [52:28]
Unknown
It's gonna go a little different in 2020.
- [52:30]
Leon Thomas
No, but what I'm saying is, is that the whole vibe of it is a. That's its own thing. I think what I'm creating creatively is my own world, and it's rooted in rock and roll. It's rooted in doing what I wanna do, you know? And I'm glad I have the creative control to go there, you know?
- [52:50]
Charlamagne tha God
That's the beauty of R B artists, though, because there's so many R B artists that are just ugly, but their music is so good that women love them.
- [52:59]
Unknown
Oh. I mean, like, actually ugly. Not just, like, ugly people.
- [53:02]
Charlamagne tha God
Like, cosmetically challenged.
- [53:03]
Leon Thomas
Okay, Cosmetically challenged.
- [53:05]
Charlamagne tha God
But they get on stage and they do the flexing and the singing, and women lose their freaking minds.
- [53:10]
Leon Thomas
Right, right, right, right, right, right. You're not.
- [53:13]
DJ Envy
Calling you ugly, brother.
- [53:14]
Leon Thomas
Yeah, I was about to say. I'm like, hold up.
- [53:15]
DJ Envy
See, that's the beauty of it. Cause there's so many ugly artists out there.
- [53:18]
Leon Thomas
Yeah. Off for sure.
- [53:19]
Charlamagne tha God
That's not my place to say it.
- [53:21]
Leon Thomas
Yeah. N. For real.
- [53:22]
Charlamagne tha God
For real, Lauren. Is he ugly?
- [53:24]
Leon Thomas
All right, thank you. Thank you, Lauren.
- [53:26]
DJ Envy
Can we get into a song of the album. What you want to hear?
- [53:27]
Leon Thomas
That would be amazing.
- [53:28]
Charlamagne tha God
We played Mutton this morning. What you want to hear right now?
- [53:30]
Leon Thomas
Yo, let's play. Yes, it is. That would be really cool.
- [53:32]
DJ Envy
All right, well, let's get into it right now. Yes, it is. The album is out right now. Make sure you pick it up. And we appreciate you for joining us, man.
- [53:38]
Leon Thomas
Thank you so much for having me, man. It's a big opportunity.
- [53:40]
DJ Envy
Thank you so much. It's Leon Thomas. The album Mud is out now and it's the Breakfast Club. Gamora.
- [53:45]
Charlamagne tha God
Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.
- [53:52]
Unknown
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