INTERVIEW: Malcolm D. Lee On 'The Best Man,' Spike Lee, Sable Bourbon, Essence, Peacock; Career Success +More

Summary

Podcast Title: The Breakfast Club
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
Episode: INTERVIEW: Malcolm D. Lee On 'The Best Man,' Spike Lee, Sable Bourbon, Essence, Peacock; Career Success +More
Release Date: July 15, 2025

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Breakfast Club, hosts DJ Envy, Charlamagne Tha God, and Angela Yee welcome acclaimed writer, director, and producer Malcolm D. Lee. Known for his influential works such as The Best Man, Girls Trip, Night School, and The Best Man Final Chapter, Lee delves deep into his creative journey, the evolution of his franchise, and the intricacies of maintaining cultural integrity within commercial frameworks.

Malcolm D. Lee's Career and 'The Best Man' Series

Malcolm D. Lee opens up about the genesis of The Best Man series, detailing how it began as his sixth screenplay. Initially titled My Homeboy's Wedding, Lee sought to create a commercially viable romantic comedy that could fund his independent projects. Reflecting on the series' impact, he shares:

“I always loved the written word... I thought this is a way for me to try novel writing and get the story out to fans quicker.”
— Malcolm D. Lee [02:01]

Transitioning from Movies to Literature

When discussing the decision to continue the Best Man saga through a book rather than expanding into another film or TV show, Lee explains the logistical challenges of reunifying the original cast and the benefits of literary storytelling. He notes:

“It's very difficult to mount a television show and a movie. Getting all those great actors back together, very difficult.”
— Malcolm D. Lee [01:15]

Lee emphasizes that writing a novel allowed for more in-depth character exploration and quicker delivery of new content to fans, bypassing the extensive production timelines of film and television.

Collaboration with Jane Allen

A significant portion of the conversation highlights Lee's collaboration with co-author Jane Allen. Their partnership melds Lee's storytelling prowess with Allen's rich background, enhancing the narrative depth of the Best Man universe. Lee remarks:

“We crafted the story together. I knew the general direction, but Jane brought a different perspective.”
— Malcolm D. Lee [35:59]

Impact of 'The Best Man' on Black Storytelling

Lee passionately discusses his mission to elevate black narratives and normalize black life in America. He states:

“My mission on this earth is to tell elevated stories about black people and make sure our humanity is highlighted.”
— Malcolm D. Lee [21:12]

This commitment is evident in how The Best Man series portrays its characters as multifaceted individuals, moving beyond stereotypes and offering authentic representations.

Challenges with Networks and Platforms

The conversation shifts to the complexities of working with major platforms like Peacock. While the Best Man Final Chapter achieved significant success, Lee addresses the hurdles in securing budgets and creative control for future projects:

“Mounting a show is very difficult, it costs a lot of money. There's a lot of demands and compromises.”
— Malcolm D. Lee [14:49]

He articulates the tension between maintaining creative integrity and meeting commercial expectations, a balancing act critical to sustaining the franchise's authenticity.

Future Plans for the Franchise

Looking ahead, Lee outlines his vision for expanding the Best Man universe through a trilogy of books. Each installment will delve into different characters' perspectives, offering a richer, more nuanced exploration of their lives and relationships. He explains:

“We're going to expand on the story from there... and we have a bit of a cliffhanger at the end of Unfinished Business.”
— Malcolm D. Lee [08:35]

Related Ventures: Sable Bourbon

Beyond his literary and cinematic endeavors, Lee shares his entrepreneurial venture, Sable Bourbon—a brand symbolizing brotherhood and luxury. He describes:

“Sable is another name for black. It's luxurious and emblematic of our friendship and brotherhood.”
— Malcolm D. Lee [38:38]

Sable Bourbon is crafted to encapsulate the essence of the Best Man experience, allowing fans to partake in the camaraderie that defines the series.

Reflections on Love and Character Arcs

Lee delves into the personal reflections embedded within his characters, particularly focusing on themes of love, self-discovery, and personal growth. Discussing Jordan's character arc, he states:

“She’s in therapy right now... trying to choose herself and get herself right.”
— Malcolm D. Lee [35:03]

This introspection serves to humanize the characters, making their journeys relatable and impactful for the audience.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the interview wraps up, Malcolm D. Lee reiterates his dedication to fostering meaningful dialogue within the black community through his work:

“I want black men to read the book. I want them engaged and to have a spirited debate.”
— Malcolm D. Lee [36:39]

He emphasizes the importance of storytelling that resonates on both personal and cultural levels, ensuring that The Best Man continues to evolve and inspire future generations.

Notable Quotes

• Malcolm D. Lee [02:01]: “I always loved the written word... I thought this is a way for me to try novel writing and get the story out to fans quicker.”

• Malcolm D. Lee [21:12]: “My mission on this earth is to tell elevated stories about black people and make sure our humanity is highlighted.”

• Malcolm D. Lee [35:03]: “She’s in therapy right now... trying to choose herself and get herself right.”

• Malcolm D. Lee [36:39]: “I want black men to read the book. I want them engaged and to have a spirited debate.”

Key Takeaways

• Creative Evolution: Malcolm D. Lee successfully transitioned The Best Man from film to literature, allowing for deeper character exploration and sustained franchise growth.

• Cultural Integrity: Lee remains committed to authentic black storytelling, balancing commercial viability with meaningful narratives.

• Collaborative Success: Partnering with Jane Allen enriched the storytelling process, bringing diverse perspectives to the forefront.

• Entrepreneurial Ventures: Sable Bourbon exemplifies Lee's dedication to embedding his creative works into tangible experiences that celebrate brotherhood.

• Future Endeavors: Plans for a trilogy of books signal continued expansion of the Best Man universe, promising further engagement with fans and the community.

Malcolm D. Lee's interview on The Breakfast Club offers a comprehensive look into his creative process, the challenges of maintaining cultural authenticity in mainstream media, and his unwavering dedication to telling impactful black stories.

Transcript

[Angela Yee]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Carlos Miller]

Taking control of your career is empowering. Just don't tell my boss I said that. Building a career isn't just about a job. It's about creating a path that impacts our community and future generations. Whether you're starting out or making big moves, State Farm is here to support you with resources to help protect what you're working hard to achieve. They've got your back every step of the way. Because, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Find out [e-mail] wake that ass up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Early in the morning.

[DJ Envy]

The Breakfast Club.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne the guy. We are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRosa is here as well, and we got some. We got a special guest in the building. Yes, indeed, we have Malcolm D. Lee. Good morning.

[DJ Envy]

What's going on?

[Malcolm D. Lee]

How are you feeling?

[DJ Envy]

I'm great.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

Malcolm D. Lee is a writer, director, and producer. He's worked on so many different things. The Best Man, Girls Trip, Night School, The Best Man Final Chapter. So many to name. How are you feeling this morning, brother?

[DJ Envy]

I'm fantastic. I'm very glad to be here.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Happy to have you, man. You just put out a book called the Best Man Unfinished Business. I need to know, why would you continue the Best man series as a book rather than a movie or TV show?

[DJ Envy]

Well, I've always loved the written word. Number one, I'm a. I'm a storyteller at heart. It's very difficult to mount a television show and a movie. Getting all those great actors back together, very difficult. And I fantasized about being a novelist. I thought, okay, here's an opportunity to try my hand at novel writing. Do it with characters that are already established. They have backstory already, and let me give it a shot. Plus, it gets the story out faster. I mean, fans said they wanted more, and I thought we were done at their final chapters on Peacock. Still number one on Peacock, by the way. But I said, okay, this is a way for me to, you know, try novel writing and get the story out to fans quicker.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But if you have another story, why wouldn't Peacock, being that y' all broke records on Peacock? As you said, it was the number one show on Peacock. Still number one on Peacock.

[DJ Envy]

Why.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Why wouldn't they say, no, no, no, no, no, Malcolm, we need that here?

[DJ Envy]

Well, listen, I'm not saying that they wouldn't or didn't ask, but I thought at the time it was. I was done. But then the idea came to be, okay, let's try it as a, as a book. And I think we can tell more in depth story with the book. You know, there's, you know, you get to use all five senses. We're concentrating on three different characters in this. Harper, Robin and Jordan. Right. And so they're the kind of like the crux of the, of the franchise. And I felt like here's an opportunity to not only be more expansive in the storytelling, but also let's get into the psyche of these characters in a more in depth way. Is it possible to get everybody back together? Yes, but it's very difficult.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Very difficult. Money, time.

[DJ Envy]

Money. Keep. Yeah, keep going. It's difficult. I mean, like those are all working actors. Right. And it's tough to get them back together. Then you have, you have budget constraints, you have demands. A network in the studio with a book. It's just me and my co author, Jane Allen to just say, okay, here's the story that I want to tell.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

I want to go back, if you don't mind Malcolm D. Lee coming up in this industry.

[DJ Envy]

Yes.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

You write the Best Man.

[DJ Envy]

Yep.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

So how do you go from here, how do you get it to where it is being young, being first time doing it to getting an opportunity to even do it? So break it down where you from and how you, how you even came up with the concept and idea.

[DJ Envy]

Okay. So to start, you know, the Best man was my sixth screenplay and I wasn't even trying to direct it at the time. At the time, I had written another romantic comedy that I was trying to fund. I couldn't find the money for it. I said, I'm gonna write something so commercial that I'm going to take that money when I sell it and make my, my independent movie. But as in the midst of writing it, it was also called My Homeboy's Wedding at the time. And I was like, I'm never going to use that title.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

So it's called My Homeboy.

[DJ Envy]

It was in the beginning, that's why I named it, but I knew that was never going to be the title.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

My Homeboy.

[DJ Envy]

That, that was not a good My Home is Now. No, but. So I knew that wasn't going to be the title, but I was like, okay. So in the midst of writing, I said I could, I could direct this. And I remember giving it to Spike because he had read all my screenplays. I already had an agent by that time as well, but nothing was happening.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

Where are you originally from?

[DJ Envy]

I'm originally from. Well, I was born in Queens, raised in Brooklyn. Okay. Yeah, we're first cousins. His father, my father, who's now deceased. My father's around. He's our brothers. And so, yeah, so then I was in my parents basement, I finished the script and I said, if this ain't it, then, you know, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm gonna probably be a lawyer or a teacher, okay? And so I handed the script to Spike and he said, this is the one. And so right after that, we went to Columbia Pictures. We had, he had a deal at the time and, you know, the start of the process. We didn't land anywhere until the, you know, maybe six, eight months later at Universal. Because Spike was, you know, Spike was the kind of person that dead says, if they don't want to do it, we move it on, right? And so. Meaning, Meaning, like, we're not listening to any notes. We're not. This is, here's the script. We're making this movie, right? And Columbia was like, well, let's do a little bit of work. He was like, f that we out of here. And she's like, no. I was like, well, you know, I'm just kind of playing catch with the whole time. I'm kind of like, okay, all right, maybe. And then we went to Disney and then a few other places and we were getting like, well, we'd like to do a little work. And he was like, we're out of here. And then I was like, can we slow down a little bit, please? So Universal said, hey, we'd like to see the script. Okay? I get, I get to pay. Pay you to, to do the rewrite. And then if they don't like it at the end, we go someplace else. That's all right, fine. We'll just, you know, we'll slow it down. So that's what happened. And you know, the process started. I did a two month rewrite and got it to a place where it was, it was the right script at the right time. You know, like if Love Jones or When to Exhale or Soul Food didn't precede that movie, it wouldn't have gotten made. The acting community was ready for it. Here were eight roles for black actors that can just be people and not, you know, characterizations or caricatures or sidekick or the sassy one or the hood nigger or whatever. You know, it was like, hey, this is like just eight postgraduates who are, you know, coming back. And it was, you know, had the right tone also. So, you know, it kind of worked out that way. And I, and certainly my idea was to make a classic movie. It was not that. Thank you. No. And that was, that was, that was the, you know, the, the intention. But beyond that, I wasn't thinking about anything else. Just happened to be, you know, that it's been able to like, turn into something more over the years.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

And how involved was Spike with the first Best man movie?

[DJ Envy]

You know, Spike, you know, pretty much like, I go do it on your own. Yeah, that's pretty what it was. He said, he said, okay, you know, the script is good. You know, the guy greenlit going to. He showed up the day, the first day of shooting. I mean, we had a couple of, you know, disagreements about casting and, you know, music and stuff like that. But, you know, I stuck to my guns about what, who I wanted and what I wanted. And he was like, very supportive of it. He was there for day one of the shoot in the very beginning, in the morning, said good luck, and he was out. And then, you know, I saw him in the edit. You know, he looked at a cut and he was like, maybe consider changing this, change that. And that was it. He let me. Spike is very much the person that's like, it's the director's vision. You do your. You make your movie. Right.

[Angela Yee]

I was gonna ask you. I rewatched the Best Man Final Chapters before I started this. And in one of those episodes, Harper hints at. There's supposed to be this spinoff about the love story between him and Nia Long. But then this book kind of gives that vibe too. Was that. Did you drop that egg on purpose or that just happen like that?

[DJ Envy]

No, I wish I could say that it was all like part of a master plan, but no, you know, but you, you write things and then you see what's, what has been established and, you know, try to build off of that.

[Angela Yee]

So in building off of that, because you decide to explore Robin, Harper and Jordan's lives, like, separately, even though they're still intertwined.

[DJ Envy]

Right.

[Angela Yee]

How did you decide that? I know you mentioned it was only these three characters. How did you know, like, this was the story? Because there's so many spin offs that we learned about in Final Chapter and we're going to.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Right.

[DJ Envy]

So, like, this is the book one of a trilogy. Right. And so I know that the plan was I'm gonna start with these three because I think these are the three that, that people are most interested, are the most kind of polarizing because, you know, Robin had made some decisions in the last. In the final chapters that people were very upset about. So I Want to give her a chance to like, explain herself. And I will say also me just back up a little bit. Doing a television show, as you said, it's like be great to do, but like, it's also very restrictive in terms of budget, in terms of story. I wanted to tell. We wanted to do 10 episodes, we only able to do eight because of again, many different things scheduled and whatnot. So again, being able to do it in a book is different. So in, in doing these three characters, I wanted to like, kind of like get. Answer those questions about, you know, what's going to. Going on with Robin and I'm sorry, with Jordan and Harper. What's Robin doing? Because they're still intertwined because this still share a child. It's been a long time together. And then in book two and three, we get into Lance's pov, we're getting into Quentin's pov, Candace Shelby and and, and expand on the story from there. But, you know, and we were gonna end it with, with these three, with these three characters. We're going to be like, we're going to wrap up their story, but they're going to continue because we have a bit of a cliffhanger at the end of Unfinished Business.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, black content can have tremendous success, but still not get respect from whatever platform or industry. So how did Peacock react to the success of the Best Man Final Chapters?

[DJ Envy]

They were ecstatic. They were ecstatic. I mean, it was. I don't want to say necessarily that it saved the network, but it certainly was a big boost for the network. So they want more from me. They would love to have another Best man, but again, you know, it's very, very tough.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, but saying you, you would love to have something is one thing. Showing improving it through the actual budget is another. Is that the problem?

[DJ Envy]

I think that's part of. It's a challenge. It's a real challenge. I mean, like, you know, again, in terms of like what, what they value and what that, like this, this book, for instance, takes place on. In four different cities, two different continents to, to have that kind of budget to make that movie with all these actors take Avengers type money. Right. You know, I mean, I'm exaggerating, but like, that's what it would take. Do they think it's worth it? I don't know. Because it's like how much. I don't know how streaming works versus the subscriptions versus how much they can, they can afford and how much they're going to be able to spend and how much they want what they value. I don't know. But all I know is, okay, here's a, here's an opportunity to tell the story in another way. And listen, the books get turned into television shows and movies all the time. So, you know, but that wasn't the intention here. We'll see what happens.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

Were you ever surprised with the success of the Best man and how well it's did since 99? Because it's like a never ending story that, you know, it's generations and new generations of kids watching and listening and viewing.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, you know, I'll say that because.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

I'm surprised it was 99. I had to look.

[DJ Envy]

I'm like, damn, 99. Yeah, man, I don't know. Yeah, it was. I listen, like I said, I intended and I thought I could make a classic, but I thought that was gonna be it. Like, you know, and I didn't want to be, you know, a sequel type thing because like, it's like they wanted a sequel right away. And I said, no, I want, I want other stories to tell. I want these characters to grow. And I'm glad I waited because, you know, there is more story to tell as we as a people get more mature and get, you know, different, you know, stimuli and different things that enter our brain. It's like, you know, and especially as we get older, right, and the culture changes and shifts and whatnot, I wanted to be able to infuse that with, with, with these characters as well. So, you know, the fact that I was able to do it has been great, you know, like, and really with Best Man Holiday, it was also a very strategic move in terms of like, what's the, what's, what's. Everything was about branding around 2012. Right. You know, 2010. Right. And they were like, okay, what's my brand? And I needed to work too, because I wasn't working a whole bunch. And I said, okay, it's time to make another sequel or make another best man movie. And because my brand is the best man. So that's what happened. And you know, we met, made it so that the Best Man Holiday had a cliffhanger also that we tell another story. But you know, at the time Universal Pictures was not meeting where I wanted to meet budget wise, you know, and for another movie. So, so I shifted to, to, to make a series because streaming was so popular at the time. And I thought, okay, we, we could tell more story. And I knew I had two more movies that I wanted to tell there. And then I thought, okay, now we're Done, but we're not done.

[Angela Yee]

It's crazy, though, because when you mentioned the Avengers, I was just sitting here thinking about, like, how the universe of, like, those type of characters work. And this is a universe. Like, we. I would literally follow storylines and not even just the main characters, but we were introduced to their children. Like, LJ has a story.

[DJ Envy]

Right.

[Angela Yee]

You know what I mean? So it kind of is that, but it doesn't seem like, from what you're saying, it's getting that vibe when you go to these networks.

[DJ Envy]

I. No, mind you, I did not try. I did not try to say, oh, I want to, like, make another show. I didn't say, like, let's make another one. I got other things in the works that may or may not have to do with Best man, but I wanted to write the book first. That's. That's why I felt like that was the next logical step. Again, mounting a show is very difficult, and it costs a lot of money. There's a lot of demands, a lot of compromises that have to happen. And again, gathering all that talent, you know, for a span of time is also a challenge. And I'm getting old, you know, I want to do things that, you know, that move me, that motivate me, and I think this is a good way to do it. And again, it can always shift and change. But I got. I have to do promote this book and write two more.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How do you navigate the balance between cultural storytelling and commercial expectations?

[DJ Envy]

Interesting. I try not to worry too much about commercial success. I have an eye on it always. I mean, when I wrote Best man, that was both commercial, and I wanted to write something commercial, but something that I thought would speak to me and the people that I. That audience that. That. That hadn't been. Had been underserved at that point. So I always have one eye on commerce and one eye on artistry, and then just try to hopefully make those meld. And you have to keep an eye on what's. What's happening. You know, like, wedding movies were very popular at that time. There had not been a black wedding movie to date. And I said, okay, well, I love ensemble movies. I love the dramedy tone of storytelling. So that's what I want to try to do. And again, it was the right script at the right time. And I just try to make the best movie that I possibly can. And if it's not my job to market it, it's their job to market it, you know, and if I'm giving you a movie that has playability it's your job to make it marketable.

[Angela Yee]

I was gonna say that finding the right movie at the right time was kind of similar to what you guys did with girls.

[DJ Envy]

Trip102 are.

[Angela Yee]

At this point, our network's coming to you, trying to find that, like, what's the right movie at the right time? Because it seems like that's a part of your brain now.

[DJ Envy]

Well, I think they're always trying to. To copy. It's a copycat industry. Right. Whatever's successful, they're gonna try to make more of more of that. I think with Girls Triple, you know, both Hangover and Bridesmaids preceded that movie. And Will Packer came to me and he said, mal, let's take actors from best man and think like a man and let's make, you know, the hangover treatment for black women at essence. I said, 100% I'm in. Right. And so, you know, it just kind of. It was, again, another right place, right time type of deal. It has to be the right script.

[Angela Yee]

Also, did it break your heart when you saw the stuff that was happening with Essence just recently?

[DJ Envy]

You know, it's funny. I did not. I was there, right? I was promoting the book. I didn't have. I didn't notice, you know, what other folks were noticing because, you know, I was being shifted from this place to that place or whatever. I didn't really, like, get. You know, I wasn't really exploring, and I went, you know, to the concerts and things like that. It's a little bit. The attendance was down. Right.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

But I said. I was like, it wasn't as packed as it usually is.

[DJ Envy]

Right. But I think some of that has to do with economics. I mean, folks ain't got broke. Yeah. People don't have the disposable income. You know, it's. It's. It's. It's not strictly just because, you know, management has changed. I think that's part of it. Or at least I think that that's the. The sense I'm getting from people online. I didn't have that experience that I felt like, oh, like, this has really changed.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

This is gonna sound stupid, but you should do a guy strip. I've seen so many guys, not stupid that go to New Orleans because they're looking for women. Right? Oh, and they know that they're looking for. Whether it's married women that take their ring off for that weekend or it's single women that's out there. There's so many fellas that put their flyers outfit on and Their hat and they go out there looking for it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's be called the Y N the young niggas. That's what it's gonna be called.

[DJ Envy]

The old niggas.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

First of all, if you old and you doing that at that point, oh.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

Yeah, it is like, well, fellas, golden.

[DJ Envy]

Not necessarily.

[Angela Yee]

I mean like it's an older skin scale of men that come to us.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You shouldn't be no 40, 50 year old bachelor in a pack still chasing women at essence because you should have been grown and mature and should have been already a person.

[Angela Yee]

It's the mature rundown. It's not actually that happens Predator at that point. No.

[DJ Envy]

How old is any women?

[Angela Yee]

The women rage in age. In essence.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah.

[Angela Yee]

It's a mature yo. Hey. Light skin.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When we think about girls. Triple.

[DJ Envy]

Hey, fam.

[Just Hilarious]

This is Carlos Miller from the 85 South Show. If you're like me, you're always thinking about how to level up your career. Maybe you're fresh out of college, just starting in your field or even looking to switch things up and find your true calling. Whatever stage you're in, remember that this is your time to grow, to learn, and to build something that lasts. State Farm understands that early career development is key to long term success. They've been a steady presence in our community and they know having the right support early can make all the difference. State Farm is there to help you make smart moves and to help you get the coverage you need. We all know that the journey to success is a marathon, not a sprint. It's all about staying focused, staying grounded, and making sure you're protected every step of the way. Let's build our careers with confidence, knowing that State Farm is there to support us. Just like they've always been. Because like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Find out [e-mail] Gina hall was married.

[Carlos Miller]

Yep.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Right. Tiffany was the wild single one.

[DJ Envy]

But, but, but, but Jada was divorced and so was and, and, and Latifah was, was free also.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So it would have to be. Yeah. So like the guys have to have a different backstory than just being a bunch of wild.

[DJ Envy]

By the way, it be like that. Like, like. I'm not saying that we're not doing or we are doing a guys trip movie, but you're not, you did not plant that idea in my head. Just wanted to make, just make sure.

[Angela Yee]

Don'T come for him.

[DJ Envy]

Just, just, just, just to be clear.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

I want to see that. But it's funny because you go out there and you know the guys that used to be able to drink. They take two shots to pass out now. Guys need naps now.

[DJ Envy]

It's funny, though, but I, I agree, I agree. I mean, yeah, I, I, I think we wouldn't do at ESSENCE for guys. But even though, like, I had a best friend, a really good friend, rather, who said, like, I was telling him I was doing Best Girls trip, and he was like, oh, essence. I got, I got a bunch of ESSENCE wives. And I was like, oh, interesting. So, like, they said, the women that you don't have a chance with in, in regular time, you got, you gotta, you got a shot with this weekend.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

There'd be people that be like, they free. They single that weekend.

[Angela Yee]

I've been.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

Oh, you been.

[Angela Yee]

No, no, no, I ain't. But I've seen, I've seen all the.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

What you been doing.

[Angela Yee]

I know. I'm just saying I've seen that. Like, I've seen people. And there's a lot of stories, too. People revisit ESSENCE Fest on their anniversary because they met there and now they married. Like, there's a lot of that. It's kind of like homecoming.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

Yeah.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah. So happens.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

Just like.

[Angela Yee]

But I was asking you about that and your branding and networks coming to you because in Best man, one of the things that Harper is trying so hard to do is, like, not let the networks take too much of him and be, like, whitewashed. How do you do that? Because you're working with these big platforms, but, like, it's still very much us and we feel it.

[DJ Envy]

Right. Well, you know, I, first of all, I try to have as much integrity as possible in the storytelling. I'm trying to tell. I'm. My mission on this earth is to tell elevated stories about black people and making sure that our humanity is highlighted and that we normalize black life in America. That's my mission in life, particularly when it comes to black men. That's what I, I've been put on this earth to do. That's my, that's. And that. And most of the time, they respect that, particularly if they think it's going to make money. You know what I mean? So, like, that's just part of my DNA.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, that's good. Because when you do this best, Best guy, whatever it is, when you do this story about the men going to essence, you gotta have every single type of man represented. You gotta have the one man that's there letting these dudes know how stupid.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

Like, chill out.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, yeah, like, we should have been past this already.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

We need to go back to the room now.

[DJ Envy]

We gotta go.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

One more club, one more ball.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Let's go to the show now.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay. You know what I did wish happened after Best man, the Final Chapter and because of the success of Girls Trip, I thought that was going to make other platforms say, you know what, there's other shows we can do that with like Girlfriends.

[DJ Envy]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I feel like Girlfriends is just sitting there and Girlfriends is a show that we didn't get no closure on. So it would make all the sense in the world to do something like that. So I don't understand why when we have success with something like the Best man wedding, Hollywood doesn't say that's the new mandate. We need more of that.

[DJ Envy]

I think, you know, a lot of that has to do with behind the scenes stuff too, you know? You know, you don't know what's going on with again, with schedules, with the, with the creative process, you know, where people's heads are, how much money they're offering to, to, to produce something like that. I think Mara has talked about doing a girlfriend movie. I think Yvette Lee Bowser's talked about, you know, rebooting Living Single in some form or fashion. But I mean, again, it's like, you know, what they're currently doing versus what you know is on the horizon versus what studios are going to do or pay for. I mean, the business of filmmaking and studios in Hollywood is contracting, it's shrinking, it's not expanding. You know, it's only getting smaller. So, you know, but. And they're only going to do things that, that have IP and those are great examples of, you know, IP that, that's already exist that, you know, they could build on.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

But is it difficult to do those positive type of movies? Like, you know, you look at what it costs to do that Best man and how much it made and how much it cost to do Girls Trip and how much it made. I feel like we should get more of that, but we don't see any of that. Like, you don't see a Love in basketball. You don't see a best man anymore. You don't see a lot of those movies anymore that's positive.

[Angela Yee]

You don't see it as many forever on Netflix.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

Yeah, I'm talking about movies.

[DJ Envy]

Oh, well, movies are very. It's very hard to get people to get out of their homes to go to a movie theater nowadays because everything is so easy on streaming. It's like, oh, I'll just turn it on to get people to come out of their homes and buy popcorn. Or get a babysitter or whatever. That's a. Yeah, it's got to feel like an event otherwise, like, or, you know, I'm going to miss out on something if I don't go see it. And so that's what the students are really struggling with right now is like, what, what? Because it costs so much to not only make a movie, but to market and promote a movie that, like, it's got to be worth the shot.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

Can they make. Are they making their money back when it's on a network like that? Like, like, you spend, let's say, whatever it costs to do a movie and they put it on a Netflix. Right. Is Netflix making their money back? Because the subscriptions, they're gonna make that money monthly anyway. Are they. Is it worth it for them for that?

[DJ Envy]

I think it is. Otherwise, they stop making it. Yeah, I mean, I think that, yeah, they, they, they. Their costs are. Are not as high when it comes to marketing, promotion, and they can. And it's, you know, available across the world, so they have a lot of, you know, ways that they can make money. I think streaming is just. It's just easier for people to, like, click on things, but they also. You have to have certain things happen right away, otherwise you'll be like, I don't want to watch that. I go on to something else. That's what it's. It's. I've not made a movie for a streamer. I mean, other. I mean, television show. I think movies on streaming can be very. Can get lost and be very forgettable because people are just kind of like, whatever, you know, that's cool. That was nice. But it's like. And so that would be very hard for me to, to take and feel like, oh, I'm making some kind of cultural impact. I think movies do have the ability to culturally be impactful, and it's not always the case. It's not. You can't always be culturally impactful. But in a, In a movie where, you know, Girl Trip obviously is one of those movies, Best Man's one of those movies, you just hope that that deserve a big canvas and, you know, people will go see him.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I agree. Because when you set it up as a TV series, that's more of an event. When this, When Best Man Final Chapter is eight episodes, it's like, oh, shit, I got right. But if it was this best man in the movie, I'll probably watch. But it's not.

[DJ Envy]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

An event, right?

[DJ Envy]

Exactly, Exactly. I think, like, you know, fortunately, we were able to platform it in a way that, you know, it gave Peacock a lot of subscribers based on, you know, this great cast and this great franchise. So, you know, we were very, very fortunate to do that. And I would like to keep doing that in television to tell those kind of event, eventized type of stories.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And it's wild that we don't look at it like that. Cuz if you get in eight episodes of an hour series, that's like four movies.

[DJ Envy]

Yep, it felt like it too.

[Angela Yee]

It felt like it too.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When it comes to the book, do you have to run the characters arcs past the, the, the, you know, what the actors and the Tay Diggs is of the world. Like, like this is where I'm taking y' all character.

[DJ Envy]

No, I mean, you know, especially in this form. It's like these, these characters came from me, so I own them and I, I dictate where they go. It's, you know what, where they do have an influence is like, you know, what they look like and their voices and their facial expressions and you know, I think that's, you know, part of the storytelling. But no, I don't, I don't, I wouldn't be consulting them. It's, it's not like the only time you have to consult them is like when it's, when it's time to actually do it and then on that or, or to make a movie or, or a television show. And in that instance, you know, that's when a collaboration is happening. But on the book, it's just me and my, and my, my co author, Jane Allen, and you know, the, the editor.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The only reason I ask is because, you know, one day you're gonna have to get them to play these characters again for this story.

[Angela Yee]

They live it in real life. People still talk. Maybe, maybe not.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Maybe, maybe.

[DJ Envy]

I don't know. I, I, you know, again, we don't, we don't know. I mean, when that time comes, if that time comes, then we'll, we'll, we'll cross that bridge.

[Angela Yee]

None of the characters have called you about the book and been like, hold on now. Why like nobody. Taye Diggs, Nia Long, Nobody's called you about that? Yeah, or like just being like, yo, I like where you took the character. Because like Nia Long or Jordan's finally getting a repeat of a.

[DJ Envy]

Well, I know. Well, Harold and Morris and Tay, my business partners in Sable, have read it and they've got given me feedback. The others I haven't heard from yet in terms of that they've read depends on budget.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

Too. Because you could get a cheap version of Morris right there. That's the 90% version.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You can get cheap versions of things, but, you know, but that would never work for them.

[DJ Envy]

This.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You have to have the original ingredients. It would never. They'd kill you if you recast.

[Angela Yee]

He can't say certain words either. He has, like, a list.

[DJ Envy]

Like, what. What can he say?

[Angela Yee]

Like, words with S's.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Words with S. I could say that you got a little dent in your. You wouldn't want to cast a little bit of edge.

[Angela Yee]

Now, right at the top, you were talking about. You were talking about your co author, Jane Allen.

[DJ Envy]

Yes.

[Angela Yee]

So she did Black Girls Must Die exhausted.

[DJ Envy]

Correct.

[Angela Yee]

I read. I didn't know that there were different iterations of the book. I read the first one that she did.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah. There's two more.

[Angela Yee]

Okay. And that one, I mean, I work in media, so it spoke to me, like, so clearly.

[DJ Envy]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Angela Yee]

When I saw that she was your co author, I'm like, oh, Jordan's life is literally like a lot about what Jane writes about.

[DJ Envy]

Interesting.

[Angela Yee]

Like, just because she talks a lot about black women, trying to figure out basically not like, to wither yourself away by, like, surviving life. How can you live life? And then I thought about the black women in this series and I'm like, oh, I wonder if y' all came together because you thought that way, or did it just happen?

[DJ Envy]

Well, I mean, when I interviewed with Jan, I'd read her, I'd read her books, and then I sat down with her to talk about the collaboration process. I really liked her life experience. You know, she had been an attorney. She had worked for Prince. She had worked for Lady Gaga. She had had a number of entrepreneurial businesses before she decided to become an author. And so I really like that. And I liked her writing. And I thought she'd be additive, particularly as a black woman, you know, who had corporate experience, you know, with. With the telling of these stories. So it was pretty much a no brainer. And. Well, it really wasn't a no brainer until she said to me, like, why are you doing this? I said, well, I'm trying to exercise new muscle. I'm trying to get into novel. Right. She's like, no, no. What for? Like, what are you doing? I said, I don't know. I thought that was pretty explanatory. Explanatory. And then she said, do you want to win? And I was like, huh? Yeah, I want to win. Do you want to be. Do you want this? Are you all in on this? Book. Are you just trying to, like, just be like, whatever with it? And I was like, no, I'm all in. I want. And I love that spirit, you know, of like someone that's like, got the same kind of work ethic that I do. It's like, okay, let's push ourselves to make the best product possible. And I think we've done that with the book. You know, I think that people are really going to. If they've loved the Best man, the Best Man Holiday, and the series, they're going to love the book because it's more expansive storytelling. It's, it's, I think, in more, more depth than the movies and television. You're able to do things in movies, in television that you can't or in a novel that you can't do in movies and television. It's like that you use all five senses. You get the feel, taste, smell, see, hear. It's, it's all, all those things are engaged. And it's a very cinematic experience because you already know who the characters are.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What they look like, what legacy are you personally building that's distinct from the family name, the Lee name.

[DJ Envy]

I think it's. There are some inter. Intersectionality between what Spike has done and what I'm doing, what Spike is continuing to do. And primarily that's, that's. That's elevating, you know, the humanity of black people and the normalization of black life.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Don't forget Joey. Joey Lee.

[DJ Envy]

Joa.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Joa. Damn.

[DJ Envy]

My cousin. Yeah, that's okay. No, no. And yeah, no, trust me, like, you know, you know, Spike's brother David is a photographer, you know, so, so I don't know. Like, I'm trying to create my own lane. I have, I have created my own lane. Is different from what Spike does. Bike is like, you know, a true filmmaker, artist. Right. You know, I'm, I'm. I tend to make movies, although I'm trying to, like, be an artist, you know, but, you know, my lane has been, like, trying to be much more of the commercial route. And again, it's about normalization of, of black life in America and abroad.

[Angela Yee]

How did you know? Or, or why did you decide to finally explore Taye Diggs? And, and so now Lathan's character, like, not trying to get back together because Harper and Robin. Harper and Robin, yes. Right. Like, because I, I feel like there's been times where like, we see them go apart, but then I always thought that they would try and figure it out again, especially.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, I mean, I wanted to explore, you know what life was like, you know, post divorce and you know, how the circumstances behind that. Because, I mean, you know, Harper, you know, could have probably made some different choices, you know, you know, and, and, and, but now he's. Yes. And he's got all the trappings of success. He's got the, you know, he's got the bachelor pad and in Dumbo, Brooklyn, he's got, you know, critical success as being a Pulitzer Prize winner. But he's alone, right? I mean he. Not lonely, but he alone. And you know, he's, he's enjoying his bachelor lifestyle, but he doesn't quite fit into his life the way he, he used to. And especially with his friends, he, he's the seventh wheel. And in this, in this. Yeah, in this book, he is kind of asking himself the question, did I do the right thing? Have I, could I have done better? And so is there going to be a reconciliation? Perhaps, you know, Robin's over in, in Ghana and I went to Ghana, by the way, to do some exploration and just probably put my foot on the soil and breathe the air and taste the food and be with the people so I could really fill out that, that side of the story and explore like what life was like for a returnee to, to Ghana. So yeah, I mean there's, there's, there's a lot of, of explanation or I would say exploration of what's, what was the right thing and should he return to a woman that was like, made him the man that he is. And you know, also he's got his daughter, his pre teen daughter that's missing him as well, you know, across the Atlantic. So it's a lot for him to be thinking about. And there's also his friendship, his long term friendship with Jordan and you know, are they going to finally link up and finally get together and are they really soul mates or not? You're smiling. Have you finished the book?

[Angela Yee]

No, I didn't finish it. But last time that we talked, I asked you, did you give my girl Jordan a reprieve? Did she finally get her situation together?

[DJ Envy]

What did I say?

[Angela Yee]

We were at Ruth's picnic. You said I had to read the book. You wouldn't tell me anything, but in reading it so far, I feel like it's like she's in the middle. It's like yes and no.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Finish the book.

[Angela Yee]

I, it was a long book, so.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You got to wait to come to a whole conclusion. They finish the book?

[Angela Yee]

No, I was just about to ask about. So where I'm at so far, I I think she's doing a lot of, like, self. Like.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, she's in therapy right now.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, she's. She's doing some self. Some self help in choosing herself and trying to, like, you know, get herself right and ask herself the questions of why she is the way she is. We get to explore when. Where she grew up and how she grew up, and we get to meet her parents in this. In this book as well. So, I mean, I think we're doing a lot of exploration with Jordan and the choices that she made. And, you know, she does. For the longest time, she was always about the grind and, like, making sure that she could get to the top of that corporate ladder, and it really didn't serve her at the end of the day. And now she's like, you know what? My heart has never been what's led me. And now I do want love. I want to be chosen. I want all the things that a woman like her should have.

[Angela Yee]

I was wondering if that decision to go that route was yours fully or Jane's or both of you guys together, just because we didn't really know. I never realized until reading the book. I didn't really know much about Jordan outside of all of her accomplishments. And that's been a big conversation with black women.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I certainly wanted to explore all those things. I wanted to explore some of them in the series, but, you know, time constraints. Right. I'm able to do that now. And certainly collaborating with Jane was a. Was a great help. You know what I mean? We. We crafted the story together. I knew kind of the general direction I wanted to go, but once you start, you know, working with somebody and particularly, you know, a black woman, that gives you a different perspective than you have. This is, you know, great story building. So. So it was. It was a collaboration, I'll say.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

That's right. Well, we appreciate you for joining us.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes. Go get the book, man. The best man. Unfinished business. This story ain't gonna never end.

[DJ Envy]

Nope, it's not.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

But why would it?

[DJ Envy]

And I want to say it's particularly, you know, Black women are going to. To read this book and engage, and they're going to like it, but I want it not to be. I want people to be reminded that I did write this for black men. I wrote the original for and about black men. And I want black men to read the book. If they don't want to read, listen to it on audio. Right. You know, like, just. I. I want them engaged, and I want them to have. We Had a very spirited debate on, on one of my book tour stops in Baltimore where, like, men and women started, like, going at it, you know, about, like, different perspectives. And I think this is, it's, it's a, it's a healthy, robust debate that can be had. And if black men will engage on this.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Is there any singular love story in the best man that's a reflection of your personal views on love?

[DJ Envy]

My personal views on love I don't know about. Maybe. There's definitely parts of me in it. You know what I'm saying? So, like, fortunately, I, unlike Harper, even though I've been selfish in my, in my time, I am not divorced and I'm not planning on it. And, you know, there's a balance that has to happen with your career aspirations and your family life and your partner that's going to, you know, either support you or, or not, you know. And so, you know, I think what, what's important is, you know, the love that, not only that, that, that the characters have with one another, men and the women, the husbands and the wives, but also amongst the fellas, right? Like the, the brotherhood, the friendship, that support that they have for one another and holding each other accountable as well. So that's certainly a personal thing of mine for sure.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

All right, well, Malcolm D. Lee, ladies and gentlemen, appreciate you for joining us.

[DJ Envy]

Thank you. Thank you very much. Are.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wow.

[DJ Envy]

How about that Sable bourbon Owned by you?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Morris Chestnut. Who else?

[DJ Envy]

Harold Pero and Tay Diggs. And so we, we came out last August and we're getting around the country and, and, and exposing people to disabled. It's a great, great poor.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What's the title mean? I mean, the, the name mean.

[DJ Envy]

Well, Sable is a, a. Another name for black. It's, you know, luxurious. It's, it's, it's rich. And I think it's, it's very much emblematic of, you know, what we consider as our friendship and our brotherhood. And it's, it. This, this, this, this bourbon is bottled in brotherhood. And so, you know, it's. It. We wanted to bring the best man experience because every, every scene where the fellows got together, they were drinking a brown spirit, and we said, okay, like, let's make our own. And so it's, it's emblematic of that experience of brotherhood. And you can take it away with you and have a sip with your fellas or the ladies.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

All right, Lawrence.

[DJ Envy]

Got it up already. Yeah, I see.

[Malcolm D. Lee]

Malcolm D. Lee, it's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.

[DJ Envy]

Wake that ass up early in the morning.

[Just Hilarious]

The Breakfast club. Taking control of your career is empowering. Just don't tell my boss I said that. Just kidding. I am the boss. This is Carlos Miller from the 85 South Show. And building a career isn't just about a job. It's about creating a path that impacts our community and and future generations. Whether you're starting out or even making big moves, State Farm is here to support you with resources to help protect what you're working hard to achieve. They've got your back every step of the way. Because, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Find out more@state farm.com this is an iHeart podcast.