Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club — INTERVIEW: Mehdi Hasan Talks 'Win Every Argument,' Israel-Hamas, Genocide, Trump, Dems, NY Mayoral Race + More

Date: September 11, 2025
Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God, Lauren La Rosa
Guest: Mehdi Hasan

Episode Overview

In this compelling conversation, Mehdi Hasan, renowned journalist, author, and broadcaster, joins The Breakfast Club to discuss his book "Win Every Argument" alongside a host of urgent political issues. The discussion delves into the Israeli military actions in the Middle East, the question of genocide in Gaza, U.S. political complicity, the role and future of media, Democratic Party dynamics, misinformation, and even the New York City mayoral race. Mehdi shares strategies for good faith debate and his insights on independent journalism amidst shifting media landscapes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Mehdi Hasan’s Take on Israeli Bombing Campaigns

• Scope of Bombings: Mehdi details Israel's bombing of multiple sovereign nations in the region, including Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Qatar, and Tunisia, emphasizing its unprecedented scale.

  “I can't think of any other country in the world that has done that in modern times.” — Mehdi Hasan [03:13]

• Washington’s Complicity: Mehdi singles out bipartisan U.S. support as enabling Israeli military impunity.

  "When it comes to Israel… it's a bipartisan consensus. Joe Biden let him do whatever he wants. Donald Trump lets him do whatever he wants." — Mehdi Hasan [03:58]

• Qatar Example: Israel bombed Qatar (a U.S. ally hosting an American military base) in pursuit of Hamas leadership—leadership intentionally placed there at U.S. request for negotiation purposes.

  “They don't tell you that when they're bullshitting you.” — Mehdi Hasan [05:16]

Genocide in Gaza: Definitions & Double Standards

• Ben Shapiro Clip Rebuttal: Returning to a prior Ben Shapiro interview, Mehdi eviscerates the argument that what's happening in Gaza isn't genocide, underlining the explicit legal definition from the 1948 Genocide Convention.
  • Genocide includes intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group via several actions, most of which Mehdi argues Israel demonstrates in Gaza (killing, starving, causing bodily harm, preventing births, transferring children).
• Scholar Consensus:

  “Israeli Holocaust historians at Hebrew University… say it's a genocide in Gaza. All of them said, we didn't think it was a genocide at the beginning, but we definitely think it's a genocide now.” — Mehdi Hasan [10:10]

• Double Standards: Mehdi points out that similar actions are classified as genocide elsewhere (e.g., China vs. Uighurs, Syria), but U.S. discourse shifts when it comes to Israel.

  “Netanyahu has killed minimum 3% of the Gaza population in less than two years. So why is Syria a genocide and not Gaza?” — Mehdi Hasan [11:09]

• Response to “Not All Killed” Argument: The claim that Israel could kill everyone but hasn’t is rebutted as a fallacy.

  “The genocide definition isn’t killing everyone… Rohingya in Myanmar—most people accept that's a genocide. They didn't kill all the Rohingyas.” — Mehdi Hasan [12:42]

Why Americans Should Care

• Moral and Practical Responsibility: Mehdi stresses that U.S. citizens have both a moral obligation and vested interests—financial (taxpayer-funded bombs) and security (increased terror risks due to U.S. support)—in stopping atrocities in Gaza.

  “What is happening in Gaza is the greatest tragedy of our lifetime… It's our money doing the bombing… We're complicit in this.” — Mehdi Hasan [15:03]

• Desensitization & Dehumanization: The conversation explores how language and media coverage often strip away empathy, reducing civilian deaths to statistics or political talking points.

  “Everything becomes Hamas. ... If Ms. Rachel is Hamas, then you've lost the argument.” — Mehdi Hasan [19:28]

The Art & Ethics of Argument

• Value of Debate: Mehdi elaborates on why good-faith argument is essential for democracy and truth-seeking, warning against the rise of performative, bad-faith debates in media.

  “We should have healthy debate… But we've lost that. Our media has killed what was good faith debate and argument.” — Mehdi Hasan [21:19]

• Audience Focus: He distinguishes between debating opponents and persuading the broader audience, aiming to reach those open to changing their minds.

  “I'm not trying to change their minds, I'm trying to change the audience.” — Mehdi Hasan [23:26]

• Debate Platforms and Red Lines: Mehdi refuses to engage with outright white supremacists or denialists, distinguishing the limits of effective debate.

  “I don't think there is value in debating Holocaust deniers. ... It's just pointless.” — Mehdi Hasan [25:06]

The Media Landscape and Independent Journalism

• Mainstream Media Critique: Mehdi claims U.S. journalism has always been too cozy with power; today, some outlets directly enable authoritarian trends.

  “It’s always been cozy. ... We have media outlets joining up with a fascistic government.” — Mehdi Hasan [27:16]

• Rise (and Flaws) of “Independent” Media: Many so-called independents, particularly on the right, are too cozy with political figures.

  “A lot of the quote, unquote, independent outlets are not that independent.” — Mehdi Hasan [28:40]

• Future of News: Importance of independent, transparent outlets. Mehdi spotlights his new platform, Zeteo, and the general movement toward subscriber-supported media.

  “There is nothing that substitutes for authenticity.” — Mehdi Hasan [50:19]

Democratic Party Critique & 2028 Election

• Kamala Harris on Gaza: Discussion of Harris’s record, constraints within the Biden White House, and her hesitancy to challenge the establishment.

  “She… signals that she would be better on it… but she didn’t do it.” — Mehdi Hasan [32:39]

• Party Leadership: Mehdi argues for sweeping generational change—moving away from figures like Schumer, Jeffries, and even former presidents, to clear space for new leadership.

  “We have a bunch of old people who do not want to give up power.” — Mehdi Hasan [43:01]

• Need for Insurgents: Suggests a Jon Stewart or a real outsider is required to ignite Democratic renewal, just as Trump did for the GOP in 2016.

  “It has to be an outsider.” — Interviewer/Host [36:10]

• NYC Mayoral Race (Zoran Mamdani): The city's progressive insurgent is praised for his skills, authenticity, and ability to attract diverse support.

  “A once in a generation political talent ... his opposition divided between three people, two of whom are clearly freaks.”— Mehdi Hasan [36:46]

Misinformation & the “Truth Sandwich”

• Fact-Checking Challenges: How to challenge misinformation without amplifying it? Mehdi cites George Lakoff’s “Truth Sandwich” method—enclose a lie with truth before and after.

  “Tell the truth, rebut the lie, say the truth again. … Otherwise people will only ever hear the lie.” — Mehdi Hasan [46:05]

• Power of Social Media: Platforms like Instagram gave direct, uncensored access to Palestinian perspectives otherwise missing from mainstream coverage.

  “Without Instagram, the Palestinian struggle in Gaza would not be known to the extent it is today.” — Mehdi Hasan [48:12]

• Need for Paid Independent Media: Authentic reporting requires public support; nothing is truly “free.”

  “A free press isn't free. It costs money ... to do fact checks and have lawyers to protect you.” — Mehdi Hasan [48:54]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “What is happening in Gaza is the greatest tragedy of our lifetime...Gaza makes Iraq look like a walk in the park.” — Mehdi Hasan [15:03]
• "I can't think of any other country in the world that has done that in modern times." — Mehdi Hasan [03:13]
• "When it comes to Israel...it's a bipartisan consensus. Joe Biden let him do whatever he wants. Donald Trump lets him do whatever he wants." — Mehdi Hasan [03:58]
• "It's a ridiculous argument to say we could kill everyone. That's why it's not a genocide." — Mehdi Hasan [12:42]
• “You can't avoid it. It’s one thing I say. Whether you want to avoid an argument, you can't, therefore you should be equipped for it.” — Mehdi Hasan [20:19]
• “We don’t want to live in echo chambers where everyone agrees with each other all the time.” — Mehdi Hasan [21:19]
• “I don't think there is value in debating Holocaust deniers, climate change deniers, election deniers. It's just pointless.” — Mehdi Hasan [25:06]
• “The right looks for converts, the left looks for traitors.” — Mehdi Hasan [39:35]
• “The media landscape is heading in a very right-wing direction, which makes independent media so important.” — Mehdi Hasan [47:31]
• “There is nothing that substitutes for authenticity.” — Mehdi Hasan [50:19]

Important Timestamps

• Israel’s regional bombing & U.S. complicity: [03:04–06:43]
• Is it genocide? Legal definitions & scholar views: [07:40–12:23]
• Intent behind war & double standards (Uyghur/Syria comparison): [11:09–12:42]
• Civilian suffering, U.S. moral/practical stake: [15:03–17:27]
• Role of narrative/media, journalist restrictions, dehumanization: [17:27–19:57]
• Why Debate Matters, Art of Argument: [20:04–23:26]
• Mainstream vs. Independent Journalism: [27:16–31:16]
• Kamala Harris, Democrats’ future, and the need for outsiders: [31:16–36:35]
• NYC Mayor’s race, pitfalls of progressive politics: [36:35–40:54]
• Misinformation & “Truth Sandwich” method: [45:55–47:21]
• Independent media, authenticity, and Zeteo: [49:27–51:54]

Conclusion

This insightful episode features Mehdi Hasan’s candid perspectives on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, U.S. politics, the failures of media, and the importance of authentic, independent journalism. It’s a masterclass in real-time rebuttal, good-faith debate, and unflinching advocacy for moral clarity, with a strong imperative for listeners to stay informed and engaged as citizens and consumers of media.

For more, follow Mehdi Hasan’s work at Zeteo.com or pick up his book “Win Every Argument.”