The Breakfast Club – Interview with Pastor Michael Todd & Natalie Todd

Episode: “Relationship Goals,” Therapy & Healing, Druski’s “Mega Church” Skit + More
Air date: February 6, 2026
Guests: Pastor Michael Todd and Pastor Natalie Todd
Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God

Overview

This lively and heartfelt episode centers on relationships—romantic, spiritual, and personal growth—with bestselling authors and pastors Michael and Natalie Todd. The couple discusses the journey that inspired their book and new film “Relationship Goals,” delves into the realities of therapy and healing, balancing faith and real-world messiness, public scrutiny, and even responds with good humor to online parodies and critiques. Their candid reflections offer wisdom for anyone navigating love, faith, trust, and modern relationships.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. From Sermon Series to Book to Movie (02:12–08:38)

• Origins:
  • The “Relationship Goals” movement began as a sermon series to help people struggling with toxic relationships and has evolved into a bestselling book and now a movie starring Kelly Rowland.
  • “Six years later, now it’s a movie... So we’re just excited to be in this moment right now.” — Michael Todd (02:57)
• Personal Journey:
  • Michael and Natalie met at 15, split up amid growing pains and immaturity, but eventually reunited through individual growth and faith.
  • “You lose [trust] in buckets, but it’s built back in drops.” — Natalie Todd (07:19)
  • Michael described the hard work of regaining trust and taking personal accountability, saying he aimed to “become the man I wanted my daughters to marry.” (07:38)
• Authentic Growth:
  • Both stressed the importance of doing the personal work—healing, introspection, and letting faith guide them rather than seeking validation from a partner.

2. Healing After Hurt & Rebuilding Trust (08:38–15:31)

• Forgiveness is Not Quick:
  • Time is required for genuine healing; trivial gestures can’t fix deep wounds.
  • “This one 10 minutes is going to cost you 10 years.” — Michael Todd (10:05)
• Doing The Work:
  • Michael was clear: “If you’re not willing to lead as the man of the relationship, get up out of there… A man knows what he wants.” (15:13–15:32)
• Mutual Responsibility:
  • Both partners must take responsibility for healing and progress, not just the party who was unfaithful.
  • “If you desire this to really happen, I have to work on trying to trust him... and that is my healing just for my own self.” — Natalie Todd (12:10–12:45)

3. The Value of the “Single Season” & Letting Go (13:10–14:16)

• Natalie reflected on her “single season” — a time of healing, maturity, and realizing her own worth.
• “If we get back together or we don’t, I’m going to be okay... I quit doing like this [clinging], and I went like this—God, if this is for you or for me, I’mma hold it like this.” — Natalie Todd (13:28–14:09)

4. Redefining Relationship Goals & Setting Boundaries (19:47–23:48)

• Healthy Relationship Goals:
  • “Everybody saying, shoot your shot. Shoot your shot, but you got to shoot it at the goal... That’s why we called it ‘relationship goals’—not something comparative, but something for you and your person to aim for together.” — Michael Todd (19:41–20:27)
  • Progress, not perfection, is the real goal: “I just want to be better this week than I was last week.” (22:41)
• Communication Tools:
  • Learning to “own your own feelings” in disagreements rather than blaming or using “you” statements disarms defensiveness and fosters growth. (24:29–25:43)

5. Infidelity, Public Opinion & Lasting Change (26:11–32:26)

• On Cheating:
  • Both discourages immediate “leave them!” advice after infidelity, urging focus on real change and new patterns.
  • “Patterns is the thing... Judge whoever you’re with by their patterns.” — Natalie Todd (28:40)
• Boundaries & Transparency:
  • Full access breeds trust: “The greatest freedom you will ever have is when you have no reason to lie.” — Michael Todd (30:21–30:28)
• Faith vs. Flesh:
  • “Some people need to make their lives simpler so they can live fuller… The disciplined version of you is the best version of you.” — Michael Todd (32:03–32:27)

6. Masculinity, Vulnerability, and Pursuit (17:47–19:41)

• Male Growth:
  • Michael unpacks how humility and vulnerability changed his approach to relationships, contrasting culture’s “move on” messages with valuing the one who is truly for you.
• Pursuit vs. Stalking:
  • Discusses difference between healthy romantic pursuit and crossing boundaries (18:44–19:41).

7. Handling Public Critique & Church Culture (55:38–65:38)

• On Pastors’ Wives and Appearance:
  • Natalie and Michael challenge superficial judgments, emphasizing class, empowerment, and acceptance.
• Druski’s Mega Church Skit:
  • Michael responds to online parody by acknowledging truths behind critiques, explaining his church’s transparency and significant charitable giving.
  • “You could only be offended when it applies to you. I thought it was hilarious.” — Michael Todd (64:29)
  • Emphasizes rigorous financial oversight and giving back ($36 million in 11 years).
• Public Perception vs. Real Impact:
  • The Todds share the difference between social media narratives and the real, steady life and work of ministry.

8. Mental Health, Therapy, and Family Challenges (45:43–54:59)

• Therapy & Theology:
  • Both are major proponents of intensive therapy alongside faith. Therapy helped them navigate personal and marital struggles, particularly around raising a son with autism.
• Grieving & Capacity:
  • “Not having the answers is, oh, you have this super heavy thing… That actually never goes away. The weight of it never goes away. But now my hand just got bigger.” — Natalie Todd (54:26)
• Applying Faith in Crisis:
  • “The majority of your life will be trying to figure out navigating hard things with this person.” — Michael Todd (55:00)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Trust, Mistakes, and Slow Healing
  • “You lose it in buckets, but it's built back in drops.” — Natalie Todd (07:19)
• On Accountability
  • “You cannot go and plant a bad seed here and expect to over here reap a good harvest.” — Michael Todd (11:09)
• On Personal Growth
  • “The disciplined version of you is the best version of you. You have never been your best version if you're not disciplined.” — Michael Todd (32:26)
• On Relationship Goals
  • “Progression, not perfection… that's the real goal.” — Michael Todd (22:41)
• On Marriage and Family Priorities
  • “Success... looks different for us. We’ve defined success as peace and not needing anything.” — Michael Todd (33:57)
• On Patterns After Cheating
  • “Patterns is the thing... Judge whoever you're with by their patterns.” — Natalie Todd (28:40)
• On Being Judged as a Pastor's Wife
  • “If we are going to the beach… If I was able to put on the bikini, I’m wearing a bikini. Why would I not?” — Natalie Todd (56:44)
• On Handling Online Critique
  • “We don’t pass buckets. You could only be offended when it applies to you. I thought it was hilarious.” — Michael Todd (62:10, 64:29)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:12 – Michael and Natalie share their origin story and “Relationship Goals” journey
• 07:19 – Natalie discusses the slow rebuilding of trust
• 10:05 – Michael cautions about consequences of infidelity
• 12:10 – Natalie on mutual healing in relationships
• 13:28 – Natalie on the “single season” and letting go
• 15:13 – Michael on men leading in healing
• 19:41 – Why "relationship goals" should have intention
• 22:41 – Progress, not perfection
• 24:29 – Tools for healthier communication
• 26:45 – Thoughts on infidelity and public opinion
• 28:40 – Importance of patterns, not just apologies
• 30:21 – Radical transparency and trust
• 32:03–32:26 – On discipline, boundaries, and simplified living
• 45:43 – Therapy, friendship, and dealing with a child’s autism diagnosis
• 54:26 – Expanding capacity in grief, not lessening the burden
• 55:00 – Real relationship “goals” = facing hard things together
• 56:44 – Natalie on female empowerment and attire as a pastor’s wife
• 62:09 – Michael on church financial transparency
• 64:29 – Michael’s response to Druski’s skit

Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• Consistency and Personal Change:
  Natalie highlights Michael’s ongoing consistency as the foundation of their lasting relationship.

  • “Your consistency to change and to be better... is what makes me proud to stand next to you no matter what.” (67:18)

• Community, Critique, and Impact:
  Michael and Natalie urge listeners to ignore online noise, focus on true connections, be open to growth, and define success by inner peace and family, not public opinion.

• Call to Action:
  Support positive, faith-based Black stories (“Relationship Goals” is streaming on Prime Video, Amazon Prime), as representation matters for further opportunities.

Closing Blessing:
Michael prays for all listeners to find hope, healing, and clarity in their relationships and single seasons, reinforcing faith as the foundation for every successful relationship. (68:25)

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• “You lose it in buckets, but it’s built back in drops.” — Natalie Todd (07:19)
• “This one 10 minutes is going to cost you 10 years.” — Michael Todd (10:05)
• “A man knows what he wants. If he wants steak, he gon’ get a steak.” — Michael Todd (15:32)
• “Success, to me, the goal for us looks different... We’ve defined success as peace and not needing anything.” — Michael Todd (33:57)
• “The greatest freedom you will ever have is when you have no reason to lie.” — Michael Todd (30:21)

For any listener, this episode is a mix of personal storytelling, practical advice, and spiritual reflection—laced with humor, candor, and vulnerability. The Todds challenge toxic relationship cycles and offer hope, advocating for therapy, accountability, boundaries, and the courage to both let go and grow for true love to flourish.