INTERVIEW: Rep. Ro Khanna Talks Epstein Files, War Powers Resolution, Iran, Plans For Higher Office + More

Summary

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The Breakfast Club Interview: Rep. Ro Khanna Talks Epstein Files, War Powers Resolution, Iran, Plans For Higher Office & More

Podcast: The Breakfast Club (The Black Effect Podcast Network & iHeartPodcasts)
Air Date: March 4, 2026
Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God, Angela Rye, Mimi Brown
Guest: Rep. Ro Khanna (U.S. Representative, California’s 17th District)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Breakfast Club features a candid, wide-ranging interview with Congressman Ro Khanna. The conversation dives into Khanna's prominent fights in Congress, especially his leadership on the release of the Epstein files, efforts to limit presidential war powers regarding Iran, proposals for billionaire taxation, his positions on higher office and term limits, and his views on campaign finance and the shifting political landscape. Throughout, Khanna emphasizes the need for courage and accountability in American politics, delivering a clear progressive critique of establishment power and political complacency.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Congressman Khanna's Approach: Picking Fights with the Establishment

• Opening: DJ Envy remarks on whether Khanna feels “there’s a target on you,” given his many contentious battles.
• Khanna recounts taking on powerful interests:
  • The Epstein files release ("the survivors get the most credit")
  • Challenging AIPAC
  • Iran War Powers Resolution with Rep. Thomas Massie
  • Working on billionaire tax efforts with Sen. Bernie Sanders
• Notable Quote:
  • “Courage is the new charisma. What people want is actual conviction.” — Ro Khanna (05:32)

2. Epstein Files Legislation & Accountability

• Work with Rep. Massie: Explained bi-partisan approach: both are anti-war and anti-corruption, regardless of party lines.
• On building a coalition:
  • “We got Marjorie Taylor Greene, Nancy Mace, Lauren Boebert, the entire Democratic Party… and Donald Trump ended up signing the bill without knowing it was mine.” (07:37)
• On Political Risks:
  • Facing primary challenges, targeted by billionaire-backed opposition.
  • “Some say people who are against the billionaire tax… have their names all over the Epstein files.” (09:05)
• Wealth Concentration:
  • “19 billionaires own 12.5% of the wealth. In the Gilded Age… they owned 4%, and they built libraries and hospitals. We don’t have that with the billionaires.” (09:20)

3. Shocking Extent of the Epstein Network

• On Jeffrey Epstein’s Influence:
  • “It’s like, how is everyone involved in it? How does this guy know more people than, like, heads of state?” (10:25)
  • “He’s like… let me arrange a meeting for the Prime Minister of India… every Silicon Valley big shot wants to be part of his club.” (10:35)
  • DJ Envy jokes: “You believe he’s a time traveler? The way he’s connected to everybody is kind of spooky.” (11:00)
• On Distraction by War:
  • Khanna suggests the new Iran war became a distraction from the Epstein headlines:
    • “Massey believes it’s a total distraction. I certainly think Trump wanted to change the headlines.” (11:36)

4. Why the Files Weren’t Released Under Biden/DOJ

• Explaining Redaction & Law:
  • Only with Congressional action could DOJ release the files; longstanding policy prevents release when charges haven’t been filed.
  • “Survivors have been shafted and abandoned for the past 30 years. It should’ve been all of us speaking out earlier.” (12:57)
  • Emphasis on bipartisan coalition, including Trump supporters, to get justice for survivors.
• Impact:
  • “We actually got a coalition that got MAGA to split with Donald Trump.” (14:22)

5. Accountability & the Justice System

• Many believe no one will be held responsible for the Epstein crimes.
• “People have lost jobs… but I don’t think that’s enough. Nancy Mace and I are actually partnering to get two subpoenas out — one to Bill Gates… one to Howard Lutnick.” (15:10)
• “Not under this Attorney General, not under Pam Bondi. What we need is the next president to actually appoint people who are going to prosecute this. By the way, no statute of limitations for sex trafficking.” (16:14)

6. Failures of Justice: Merrick Garland

• Biggest Legal Failures: Not prosecuting Trump and not acting on Epstein files.
  • “Look, I respect Merrick Garland… but he was not the right person for that time for being Attorney General.” (16:42)
  • Cites Kamala Harris’s prosecutorial temperament as an ideal approach.
  • “We cannot move on without accountability… This Epstein class needs to have prosecutions and investigations.” (17:14)

7. Ongoing Redactions and Calls for Full Transparency

• Status: Only half the Epstein files released; the worst details — survivors’ direct testimony naming names — are still sealed.
  • “Even members of Congress are just seeing pages of blacked out… information of who these men are.” (25:25)
• Mutual Protection Among Elites:
  • “It’s a club.” (20:28)
  • “Guess who did not want Bill Clinton to testify the most? Donald Trump.” (20:28)
  • “If it’s all a hoax, release the files — what are you hiding?” (26:32)

8. Iran War Powers, Anti-War Principles & Democratic Divisions

• Upcoming War Powers Vote:
  • “I don’t see how you can be a Democrat and vote against this… This is a vote of war or peace. This is as big a deal as the Iraq war.” (27:15)
  • Names fence-sitting Dems: Gottheimer, Landsman, Moskowitz. (27:33)
• Significance even if Trump vetoes:
  • “If we could pass this, it would be a huge blow to [Trump’s] support in prosecuting the war. It would shorten the duration…” (28:03)
• Critique of Trump’s Foreign Policy:
  • “They lied about Epstein, they lied about being against war…” (29:13)
  • “The Democrats need to… lead as the anti-war party.” (29:14)

9. Netanyahu, Regional War, and American Interests

• On U.S./Israel/Iran Dynamics:
  • “Netanyahu has wanted to do this for the last 30 years. He finally found a president who would go along with him.” (31:25)
  • “They want to weaken the IRGC… but really, we want Americans dying for that?” (32:07)
  • “You're telling protesters: ‘Take back the country,’ with no plan, knowing they could get slaughtered.” (32:35)

10. Political Reform: Term Limits

• On Seniority vs. Term Limits:
  • Recognizes Black politicians built power through Congressional seniority:
  • “You can't just take away the one place that the Black community has built power after years of segregation and discrimination.” (41:10)
  • He supports 12-year term limits for House/Senate, but would grandfather in current members.
• Own Higher Aspirations:
  • If he ran for president, it would be on “taxing billionaires, single-payer healthcare, free universal childcare, and economic patriotism — views more economically populist” than, for example, Gavin Newsom (43:41).

11. AIPAC, Gaza, and the Shifting Democratic Landscape

• Tensions around AIPAC:
  • “I don't believe we should be taking money from AIPAC… We should be clear that what happened in Gaza was a genocide… that we need to enforce the Leahy laws.” (44:42)
  • Predicts Democratic candidates will increasingly refuse AIPAC funding in coming cycles. (46:13)
  • “My stance on the Epstein class and billionaire tax is of much bigger political risk now than my stance against AIPAC.” (48:57)

12. Money in Politics & Systemic Reform

• On Campaign Finance:
  • “Anyone in the system is to some extent compromised… Super PACs have to go.” (49:04)
  • “Biden was way more progressive than the House and Senate were… money in politics is the cardinal sin of our system.” (49:04)
• On the 2026 Midterms:
  • Supporting Hakeem Jeffries for Speaker.
  • “He gives a large latitude to progressives in the caucus… and, he doesn't have a heavy fist.” (51:13)
• Fears about Election Security:
  • “Trump will try everything… to prevent [a fair election]. We’ve got to make it too big to rig.” (52:35)

13. Real Accountability: Impeachment & Change

• On Accountability if Democrats win back the House:
  • “Impeaching is the table stakes. But we've got to have accountability… We never had accountability for bankers, for the people who tortured folks in Iraq, for the Epstein class.” (56:01)
  • Stresses need for prosecutions, investigations, and truth.

14. Reflections on Political Courage vs. Political Showmanship

• Khanna laments performative politics and lack of substance, calling for real conviction and courage to face entrenched powers. (End)
• “I just think there's… a lot of showmen. We need actual substance. We need real people who are going to take on real fights… that's why you get into politics.” (63:51)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Courage is the new charisma.” — Ro Khanna (05:32)
• “Some say people who are against the billionaire tax… have their names all over the Epstein files.” — Ro Khanna (09:05)
• “It’s like, how is everyone involved in [Epstein]? How does this guy know more people than, like, heads of state?” — Ro Khanna (10:25)
• “If it’s all a hoax, release the files — what are you hiding?” — Ro Khanna (26:32)
• “They lied about Epstein, they lied about being against war.” — Ro Khanna (29:13)
• “Netanyahu has wanted to do this for 30 years. He finally found a president who would go along…” — Ro Khanna (31:25)
• “You can't just take away the one place that the Black community has built power…” — Ro Khanna (41:10)
• “My stance against the Epstein class and for a billionaire tax is… much bigger political risk now than my stance against AIPAC.” — Ro Khanna (48:57)
• “Impeaching is table stakes… But we’ve got to have accountability… We never had accountability for the bankers… for the Epstein class.” — Ro Khanna (56:01)
• “We need actual substance. We need real people who are going to take on real fights…” — Ro Khanna (63:51)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp (MM:SS) | |-----------------------------------------------------|----------------------------| | Khanna’s multiple fights: Epstein, war, billionaires | 04:43 – 05:55 | | How the Epstein files legislation passed | 06:22 – 07:37 | | Why didn’t Biden’s DOJ release Epstein files earlier | 12:56 – 14:59 | | On lack of justice system accountability | 15:10 – 16:42 | | On Merrick Garland’s failures | 16:42 – 17:30 | | War Powers Resolution, Iran | 26:39 – 29:56 | | The “club” of mutual elite protection | 20:20 – 21:40 | | Netanyahu’s motivations; regime change in Iran | 31:22 – 32:35 | | Deep dive on term limits & Black Congressional power | 39:52 – 41:10 | | Khanna’s economic populism vs Gavin Newsom | 43:33 – 43:51 | | On AIPAC, campaign finance, Gaza | 44:42 – 49:04 | | Election security & the Save America Act | 52:32 – 54:56 | | What real accountability would look like | 56:01 – 57:29 | | Political courage vs. showmanship | 63:51 – 64:34 |

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Tone & Closing Remarks

Khanna repeatedly stresses the need for moral clarity, transparency, and backbone in American politics, often through a measured but passionate tone. The hosts engage throughout with pointed, sometimes humorous questions, while maintaining space for Khanna’s detailed, occasionally wonky answers. The episode is full of substantive critiques of institutional power, bipartisan failures, and the need for real action over empty rhetoric.

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Summary prepared for those who want a comprehensive understanding of this high-impact political conversation without listening to the full broadcast.

Transcript

[Host/Interviewer]

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[Congressman Ro Khanna]

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[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Hold up.

[DJ Envy]

Every day I wake up.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Wake your ass up.

[DJ Envy]

Breakfast Club finish or y' all done?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne the guy. We are the Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

Today.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

We have our sisters, Angela, Ry, and Ms. Mimi Brown joining us this morning.

[DJ Envy]

Yes, indeed.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

We got a special guest in the building. We have a Roll Khan, a U.S. representative from California's 17th congressional district. Good morning. Good morning. I'm excited to be back. All right. How you feeling? Feel good. I'm recovering from a cold, but I'm better now.

[DJ Envy]

Do you feel like it's a target on you?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Rough all.

[DJ Envy]

Everything that you're doing?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

What my guy said. I've taken on too many fights. Yeah. I took on the Epstein class.

[DJ Envy]

Absolutely.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

I've taken on.

[DJ Envy]

I don't think we would have the Epstein files if it wasn't for, you know, the legislation that y' all implemented.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Yeah, the survivors get the most credit. But then Massey and I, you know, when we started that, it was way uphill and people thought we were crazy. So we've taken on some very powerful people. Then I've taken on aipec. They don't like me. Then Massey and I are doing the Iran War Powers Resolution this Thursday. So there's a lot of the Iranian American community that's upset at me because they want us to get into a war. And then Bernie Sanders and I are talking about taxing billionaires, so the billionaires are upset at me. So, you know, some people say you picked too many fights at once. But my view is we gotta pick more fights against the established class of this country. And you know, I joke around, cuz I'm not the most charismatic person, but I say courage is the new charisma. What people want is actual conviction. People who are gonna stand up for working class, middle class families against folks who rigged the system.

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, my first question is, you talked about picking a lot of fights. I think that that is important given the fact that we are hearing over and over again that the Democratic Party writ large, especially in Congress, is, is not picking enough fights. What was the intention behind working with Congressman Massie? Do you all see a growing portfolio of how you all will work together, or was this just two people trying to do the right thing because that's what the moment required?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

We started out being against war. You know the famous line, you got money for war, but not for the poor.

[Host/Interviewer]

That's Tupac's quote, a modification. But yes, I can't rap.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

But I know the lines. I know the basic lines. Same thing. Tupac said that. Dwight Eisenhower said that every dollar spent on a warship, every dollar spent on a bomb, every dollar spent on a missile is a dollar not being spent on a school or a hospital. And this country keeps voting for people who say they're not going to get us into war. And they keep getting us into wars, both sides. We got into Iraq, I was opposed to it. We got into Libya, I was opposed to it. We got into a war with Yemen, I was opposed to it, as was Thomas Massie. And we don't want to get into billions of her dollars in our service members dying in Iran. So Thomas Massie and I started out this year working on the Iran War Powers Resolution. We've been trying to stop this war for the past year. Then what happened is he saw that I had put out an amendment to say we need to release the Epstein files because it's the same group of people who have offshored our jobs, who get us into these wars, who were covering up, in my view, for doing some awful things to young women on Epstein's island or Epstein's ranch. And he said, well, why don't we team up on this? And I said, thomas, we keep being on the losing side of votes, so let's do this. And we did it. And people are like all these conspiracy theorists, etc. I said, no, this is real corruption. These are rich and powerful people who think they're above the law. And, and we got Marjorie Taylor Greene, we got Nancy Mace, we got Lauren Boebert, we got the entire Democratic Party. And we finally forced Donald Trump to actually sign this bill. I don't think Trump still knows he signed my bill, a Democrats bill. You know, it is the only time a Democrat has actually won against Donald Trump legislatively this whole term. And it's because we built a unique coalition. You know, Nancy Basa and I, you know, we got into it with Charlamagne at one of these sessions and it takes something. So I went with humility. I said, you know, Nancy, I know we had that issue, but let's come together. And she said she's, she's a survivor of sexual assault and it was personal for her. And I say, I'll say today show she showed enormous courage, enormous courage in standing with those survivors and not being bullied by, by Trump. Massey is facing a primary challenge, billionaires funding against him. I'm facing a primary challenge, billionaires funding this guy against me today.

[Host/Interviewer]

Are you concerned about the primary challenger? Because this is mostly centered around the

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

billionaire tax, billionaire tax and the Epstein, Epstein class. I mean it's all connected. Some of them say people who are against the billionaire tax are also have their names all over the Epstein files. Who is part of the Epstein class? A lot of them are billionaires. So am I concerned. I mean politics, you never know. I mean, I'm going to take it seriously. I'm going to fight hard. Massey's going to fight hard. I think we're going to prevail because I think we're on the right side of the issue in terms of taking on the Epstein class, in terms of saying the billionaires should have a little more tax. You know, I just want to give out one statistic. 19 billionaires in this country own 12.5% of the wealth, 12.5% of the wealth in the Gilded Age. With Rockefeller, with Morgan, with Vanderbilt that class of 0.00001% owned 4% of the wealth. And guess what? They built libraries and they built universities, and they built hospitals. We don't have that with the billionaires. So if you could raise their tax by a few percent on their wealth, and you can have Medicare and you can reverse the Medicaid cuts, and you can have child care, and you can have teachers being paid $60,000, and you could give a $3,000 check every year to people making under $150,000. I think that's a reasonable thing. So everyone has an economic stake.

[DJ Envy]

I agree.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

What shocks you the most about the

[DJ Envy]

Epstein files that you saw?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

It's like, how is everyone involved in it? How does this guy know more people than, like, heads of state? Word.

[DJ Envy]

I'd be like, who the fuck is Jeffrey Epstein? How's he connected to all these people? How is he connected to all these folks?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

He's like, oh, let me arrange a meeting for the Prime Minister of India. Let me go talk to the Prime Minister of England with what they're doing in terms of trades. Let me do something with the Prime Minister of Israel. Let me talk. You know, he's got people who know Putin. How is it that every single person wants to be at his parties? Every Silicon Valley big shot? Well, I'm in the files. I'm not saying they did something wrong, but, like, they all want to be part of his club.

[DJ Envy]

You believe he's a time traveler. I'm just asking, man. Because the way he's connected to everybody is kind of spooky. It don't seem normal.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

It does not seem normal. I mean, I don't. You could be a former president, and I don't know how you have that kind of network where everyone wants to come to your events, everyone wants to come to your parties. You know, the former Prince Andrew, his former girlfriend, said, you're a loser if you're not part of the Epstein files because it means you weren't part of the in club. Damn, that's crazy. How does this war affect the momentum of the Epstein files? Because we were really getting somewhere, and

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

then all of a sudden, you know, the war broke out.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Well, Massey believes it's a total distraction. And I certainly think Trump wanted to change the headlines. Remember what the story was right before this bombing? That a young woman accused Donald Trump of rape when she was 13. Now, I want to be very clear. It was just an accusation. But here's what concerns me. There were four times this woman was interviewed by the FBI now, the FBI doesn't just interview someone four times randomly. They obviously thought, okay, let me interview her. Fine, okay. They release one of those interviews. Three of those interviews are not released. Like, what are you hiding? What are you hiding? I'm not saying whether they're true or not, but don't you think if there are three other interview files and someone has made accusations against the President, United States, and you're required to release all the files, you should release them. So that was the story right before Iran.

[DJ Envy]

Absolutely.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

And then we have this whole Iran war. And, you know, I, I, I believe that Donald Trump wants to talk about anything other than Epstein. And he, in this country, we have not had accountability. I mean, Lutnick is still the Secretary of Commerce question.

[DJ Envy]

You know, people always want to know, why didn't Democrats put out the Epstein files when Biden was in office? Can you just explain to us plainly.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Why that didn't happen?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

But first of all, they should have, like, I don't make this a Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Democrat, Republican thing. I think having gotten to know the survivors, they've been shafted and they've been abandoned for the past 30 years. And it should have been all of us who were speaking out earlier. And I think Thomas Massie would say the same thing. Here's the problem, though. It took a law of Congress because the Justice Department couldn't release those files without Congress. There's a law or a policy of justice that says if you do not charge someone, you can't release the files. So under the Justice Department with Merrick Garland, they had to come to Congress and say, hey, pass this law so we can release it. And it just was not something they did. Pam Bondi was being, if she was being honest, she would have said, look, yeah, I want to release these files, but I can't. I need Congress to act. Instead, they fought tooth and nail to prevent us from releasing these files. That I don't, you know, we, if you look at the press conferences we had with the survivors, gentlemen, and in the beginning, we were pleading with Trump. This was not partisan. We had survivors, Haley Robeson, who voted for Trump, who said, Mr. President, you'll be the greatest president, please release the files. We want justice. Why do you think Marjorie Taylor Greene was on this? She wasn't in it to try to get Trump. She said, donald Trump, you're going to be the greatest. You're going to be the president who actually releases the files. She actually thought Trump would do, only became against Trump when he called it a hoax when he refused to release these files, when he's refused to have any prosecution or investigation. So I think what made this powerful from a perspective of the Democratic Party is I would argue it is the first time Democrats since Donald Trump came down the escalator have tried to actually work with anyone who's a Trump voter and said, like, yeah, we hear you. Yeah, there are a bunch of corrupt elites who are in our government and they're shafting you and we're going to call them out. And you know what happened when we did that? We actually got a coalition that got MAGA to split with Donald Trump.

[DJ Envy]

What do you all hope to accomplish, though? Because I saw Nancy May say yesterday that nobody's going to be held accountable. Like she said, she has no faith in the justice system whatsoever. Nothing is going to happen.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Well, there are two. First of all, around the world, people have been held accountable. Right. Former Prince Andrew the here in America, she was talking about. Yeah, but in America, people have been held accountable in terms of losing their jobs. Now, I don't think that's enough. But, you know, you had the head of a major law firm lose his job, Goldman Sachs lawyer. You've had people resign in powerful corporate positions. But, you know, Nancy Mason and I are actually partnering to get two subpoenas out, one to Bill Gates because he's got questions to answer. And that shows, by the way, that this is not partisan. Bill Gates has contributed a lot more to Democrats than he has contributed to Republicans and one to Howard Lutnick. And Lutnick was there with his entire family doing allegedly business with Epstein. Well, after Donald Trump had said that Epstein is doing terrible things with young girls and he's got him in the Cabinet. So do I believe that people will be held accountable? Not under this attorney General, not under Pam Bondi. But what we need is the next president to actually appoint people who are going to prosecute this. By the way, there's no statute of limitations for sex trafficking. None.

[Host/Interviewer]

You brought up the attorney general, and right before this, you talked about Merrick Garland, who of course was our past attorney general. When you think about some of his greatest failures, it sounds like Epstein files is certainly one of them for you. But what about his failure to timely prosecute Donald Trump? Which of those do you think is the more egregious error?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Well, not prosecuting Donald Trump. I mean, I, look, I respect Merrick Garland. He may have. He may have been a fine Supreme Court justice, but he was not the right person for that time for being Attorney General.

[Host/Interviewer]

He couldn't get across the finish line as a justice either, though.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

The vice. You know, Vice President Harris, who that great. A lot of things as vice president. I mean, she would have had a very different attitude if she was Attorney General. I mean, there are other people we could have appointed who. Not her, but I'm saying of that temperament, because you saw her questioning Kavanaugh, you saw her questioning of those Supreme Court justices. That's how she became a star. She was civil, but she was tough, and she knew what was at stake. That's how she became vice president. In my view, we needed someone of that temperament who was like, I am going to stand for justice. And by the way, when we get power again, I'm all for reconciliation. I'm all for bringing the country together, but we cannot move on without accountability. The people who've killed Alex Preddy need to be prosecuted. The people who dismantled Doge against the Constitution need to be prosecuted. The people who have gotten us into wars without authorization or killed people on boats in the Caribbean, they need to be held accountable. We need accountability. And this Epstein class needs to have prosecutions and investigations. I mean, you have Les Wexner, who's in Ohio. Allegedly, he's gotten millions of dollars with ties to Epstein, and he's never been interviewed. He's never had the DOJ come and say, hey, let me ask you what happened? Bill Gates has never had someone ask him what happened. I'm not saying Bill Gates did something wrong, but if you know this person so well, who's a pedophile, and. And you have 1200 survivors making statements to the FBI, don't you think that someone would knock on your door or give you a phone call, say, hey, what do you know?

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

You guys recently traveled to Ohio, though, to speak with Lex Wexler, right? What were you guys hoping to find

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

when you went to deposit? Well, I wasn't there, but Garcia and others were there. And what we wanted to know is what his extensive relationship was with Epstein. You know, what he was. There were alleged ties that he was recruiting models, and what that relationship was with these young girls and were they promised modeling careers in exchange for basically being abused or raped? And, you know, he kept denying everything, but why is. Why does it take a congressional committee to ask him these questions? Why is the FBI never asked any questions?

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

And where are we on the release of the entire Epstein files? Like, I know we've released 3 million, 3.5 million, and then we're trying to

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

get the entire files released. Yes, where are we on that we've released half and a half is pretty bad. It's got the whole country talking about it. And yet the half that we haven't seen is even worse. And why is that worse? What is the stuff they haven't released. Right. Without getting into all the wonkiness is basically the survivor's own statements to the FBI. All of these survivors, 1200 of them, they get interviewed by the FBI agents, and that's where they name names. That's where they say, you know what? This person raped me. This person abused me. Do I believe that we should just take that testimony as the word of truth? No, but that should come out. That should spawn investigations. Why hasn't it come out yet? Because it affects the reputations of everyone from allegedly the president, United States down. That's the. That's the stuff where the names are. And by the way, you do know

[DJ Envy]

it's mutually assured destruction, though. It'll be all across the board. So it'll be Republicans, Democrats, the donor class, corporate people, everybody.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

You're absolutely right, Sharma. You know, that's how you. I know you're right. Because guess who's the person who did not want Bill Clinton to testify the most? Donald Trump. I don't want to. Clinton doesn't need to testify because he knows that it's him. And guess what? Clinton says, oh, Trump didn't do anything wrong. You know that. It's. It's a club. It's a club. And those files have.

[Host/Interviewer]

Did he say he didn't do anything wrong or did he say he didn't know?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

He didn't know.

[Host/Interviewer]

I just. I think that we want to make sure that's fair.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

That's fair.

[DJ Envy]

I thought Bill was very cowardly punting on the should Trump testify question. I thought Hillary's answer was fantastic.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Hillary Clinton shouldn't have not been there.

[Host/Interviewer]

That's true.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

That's right. That was an absurdity. I didn't go to Hillary Clinton's deposition because I thought it was absurd and sexist. And by the way, I've said they treated Hillary Clinton worse than they treated Bill Clinton, the Republicans.

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, Nancy Mace.

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Host/Interviewer]

Nancy Mace wanted her to answer how she felt watching Bill Clinton be massaged by women and that. Why was that Hillary Clinton's responsibility to testify and what does that have to do.

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

That's crazy.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

With the prosecution.

[DJ Envy]

I was glad Hillary was there, though.

[Host/Interviewer]

No, I'm glad, too, but what I'm getting at is Nancy Mace, your colleague, who you've spoken very highly of, based on her own experience as a survivor, to have put a wife of a former president, a former Secretary of state, the person who got more votes in the popular vote count than Donald Trump, in that position, to humiliate her. This is a person who you've talked about working very well with. She should have to be accountable for that.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

I agree with that. Look, I. Charlie knows we've had our disagreements on. With Nancy Mace. I just said on this one issue of showing courage for survivors to get the Epstein bills. She showed courage.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

I disagreed with how she and other Republicans handled the interview with Secretary Clinton. I think Secretary Clinton showed a lot of grace and she didn't need to be there. She never met Epstein. So it was absurd. I think President Clinton was honest throughout the interview, at least. He sat there for six hours and he answered those questions. I'm just saying that, you know, the reality is Trump didn't want him to do that. And all these people are very careful because there's a huge network of people who did some terrible things. And those FBI files have those names.

[DJ Envy]

I just didn't like when he was asked, should Trump have to testify in front of us? And he was like, you know, that's up to y'.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

All. Like, I was surprised by that. I mean, I. I think you should have just said what Hillary Clinton said. Yes.

[DJ Envy]

It gave reasons why.

[Host/Interviewer]

I think that he's older, and I don't know that I'm not here to defend the statement one way or the other. I just think that he's older. And you resolved the two, though. No, no, no, no, no. Hillary is sharp. She can run against Donald Trump again. Now. I think that Bill Clinton is literally his hand trimmer. You can see his hand. He's not the Bill Clinton that he was in the 90s or even the early 2000s. So I just think we should.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

That's a fair. The fact that he. He took six hours of questioning, never took the fifth, answered every question, and even Colmer came out and said, you know, he was responsive. I do think clearly sets the precedent that Donald Trump needs to testify, Melania Trump needs to testify.

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

And.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

And I give both the Clintons credit for actually testifying and taking all the questions. And if you watch it, I don't know if you've watched the entire deposition of Clinton. The Democrats asked the hardest questions. It was Melanie Stansberry and Suhas Subramanian that asked very pointed questions of President Clinton, which shows that this thing has never been partisan. And you know who it's not partisan for? It's for People who met the survivors. Melanie has been in the room with the survivors, right? I've been in the room with survivors where they've broken down in tears in my office. It started out as an intellectual matter for me and Massey, and I'm a kind of a less an emotional guy. But this thing has become very personal for me, having met these survivors and the fact that they attacked one of my guests, Hayley Robeson, who I took to the State of the Union because when she was 16, she was being abused by Jeffrey Epstein. And she was so afraid that. That she would go and get other junior high and high school girls to come to Epstein because that was her only way out of being abused. And she speaks about that trauma. And they're out there calling her Heidi Fleiss and out there calling her a pimp. I mean, no shame. Attack me. Fine. Attack Massey. You're attacking survivors. These survivors have shown enormous courage in what they've done. And they have been abandoned for 30 years. And. And they've been abandoned because rich and powerful men didn't care. And you know how they targeted these girls? They looked if the girl had a father. Damn, if they didn't. She didn't have a father. Oh, that's a good target. They looked if the girl was working class, okay, she doesn't come from money. That's a good target. They looked if the girl was a daughter of immigrants, oh, that's a good target. It was. They prayed on these. These girls in, who they recruited. And, you know, this whole redaction issue, they still. People even who follow it don't get the whole thing, what they've done. So in March, the FBI swept these files. They redacted them back in March. Then my law passed with Thomas Massie, and they did a second round of redactions. The Justice Department came out and did a second round of redactions. And then they said, okay, members of Congress can see the files. And they showed us, quote, unquote, the unredacted version, meaning they showed us the versions that the Justice Department had not redacted. But guess what? All of the major redactions the FBI did in March, and those are still there. So they've hid documents, and even members of Congress are just seeing pages of blacked out with the actual information of who these men are in these files, people say, well, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. It's all a hoax. Well, then release the files. What are you hiding?

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

Prove.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Prove me a liar. But so far, the 50% of the files you've released have shown the country that this is actually much bigger than anyone thought.

[DJ Envy]

Why I want to pivot to the, to the Iran war. Why is Congress voting for a vote on Trump's war power on Thursday? I mean, that feels like five, six days too late.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Yeah, I mean, look, we tried to do it last week. We didn't have the votes. I didn't want to go into it and lose 20 Democrats. So we, we, we said, okay, well, wait, we now have more of the votes. I don't see how you can be a Democrat and vote against this where there are three or four Democrats who are on the fence. I'm hoping they're going to come on board.

[Host/Interviewer]

Who are the three or four that are on the fence?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

They're going to get me in trouble.

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, if we stay true to what you've been saying throughout this interview, which is, you know, this is about doing the right thing. It's not partisanship. I think it's important one for the listeners to know who they should be calling, pressuring to do the right thing. This is a time for moral courage. It's a time for moral courage, period. Especially when lives are already been lost.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Look, I mean, they gottheimer, Landsman, Moskowitz. Those are the people who have been on the, on the fence. You know, some of them were upset that, you know, I went on Meet the Press and I said their names, I said, I wasn't trying to single you out. I'm just saying this is a war. This is a vote of war or peace. This is as big a deal as the Iraq war. Six Americans have died.

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

If the War Powers Resolution passes, does it actually stop anything?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

What happens? So the War Powers Resolution would have to pass the House and the Senate, and the President would have to sign it. He's not going to sign it, but here's why it matters. Bernie and I, in a war that very few people paid attention to, the Yemen war, we did. The War Powers Resolution, it's the first War Powers Resolution that's ever passed in Congress. It passed the House, it passed the Senate. Donald Trump vetoed it, but it was such a statement that Trump voluntarily stopped the refueling of Saudi planes that were killing people in Yemen because it was a statement by the Congress. So even if Trump vetoes this, if we could pass this, it would be a huge blow to his support in prosecuting the war. It would, at the very least, shorten the duration of the war, especially if we could get Republicans. And then if we can't Get Republicans. It at the very least will show us that the Democrats are the anti war party. I have never seen a more dishonest campaign than Donald Trump and J.D. vance running as the pro peace candidates. Do you remember this? Vice President Harris is going to start World War Three.

[DJ Envy]

No new wars. Yeah.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Vice President Harris is going to get us a war in Iran. We are the pro peace candidates. Total lie. Yeah, total lie. They lied about Epstein, they lied about being against war. Yeah. And so the Democrats need to clearly now take the man to leave the anti war party.

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

And you, you've warned about forever wars. So is this the way to keep that from happening?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

This is, this is the way for the Democrats want to say we're the party against these forever wars. And, and if we could get some Republicans, this, this puts pressure on Trump to not have a five, six week war. He's, he's not ruling out ground troops.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, I talked about that too, this morning. Yeah, this morning that he, he has, he has the supplies for a forever war.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

And by the way, you know who's cheering this on quietly is China. As we, as we are running down our ammunition in the Middle east, what do you think they're thinking when it comes to Taiwan? What do you think Putin is thinking when it comes to Ukraine? We are enmeshed in this war in the Middle east and they are looking at this saying, okay, let the United States drain its power and we're risking our lives. And then billions of dollars. I mean, it costs a lot of money to put an aircraft carrier there. Every plane. Thank God those service members survived from those planes that were shot down. And that's. Those are millions of dollars a pop, those planes. And people here are like, we can't get money here for housing in New York. We can't get money here for child care. We can't get money here for basic health care, Medicaid cuts. So this is a time for moral clarity. Look, I, Since I've already gotten myself into a little trouble with saying those names, let me get, get myself into more trouble by saying I don't like when Democrats start out with all this procedural nonsense. Well, we don't. Khomeini is a terrible person. Yes, he is. And it's a complicated situation, but they need to come to Congress first. How about just saying we don't want money and American lives being wasted on another war in the Middle East.

[DJ Envy]

Simple.

[Host/Interviewer]

Since the Congress, simple.

[DJ Envy]

Why do you think Trump decided to invade Iran now? And why is it Bibi Netanyahu?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Why is Netanyahu invading now or what?

[DJ Envy]

I was answering your question for you.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Look, Netanyahu has wanted to do this last 30 years. He's wanted to have regime change, and he finally found a president who would go along with him. But Senator Warner said it absolutely correctly. There was no imminent threat to the United States of America. Whether there was a threat to Israel or not, I don't know. But they don't have ICBMs. I mean, they cannot launch a weapon, a missile that hits the United States. And, you know, they've been clamoring for this regime change, war, Netanyahu, for the last 30 years. And what? Why? Because they want to just punch Iran in the mouth? I mean, they don't even necessarily have a plan to get rid of the irgc. They just want to weaken the IRGC so that the IRGC cannot be a competing hegemon. Competing power in the Middle East. I get it from their strategic point of view, but really, we want Americans dying for that. And by the way, then they're telling all these protesters, take back the country with no plan.

[DJ Envy]

I don't understand that.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[DJ Envy]

What does that even mean?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

They're gonna get slaughtered. Oh, the irgc, Suddenly that have been killing all these protesters are gonna give the protesters their arms? Come on. You basically have no plan to get rid of the irgc, and then you're telling the protesters to protest knowing that they could get slaughtered by the irgc? It is a just cynical policy, and it is. It's costing lives. And for people who were tired of

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

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[Congressman Ro Khanna]

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[Congressman Ro Khanna]

out the new Chicken Bacon Ranch street chalupas. And here's the thing. You literally can't just get one. They come in twos. And thank goodness they do because these toasted cheddar street chalupas filled with slow roasted chicken, crispy bacon and avocado ranch are stacked with bold flavor that keeps you going. Back for more Chicken Bacon Ranch street chalupas only a Taco Bell. Get yours today at participating U.S. taco Bell locations for a limited time only while supplies last. They're looking at this thing. We keep voting against this stuff, we keep voting against these wars, and then we get someone in this president and somehow they get talked into these wars. I was shocked when I was on Meet the Press. The lead guest was Lindsey Graham. It's like the guy never leaves in Washington. It's just like a fixture. I thought Trump beat him. Trump ran against him at 16 saying, you know, Lindsey, no, we aren't. We're done with these wars. The only reason he became president, he sat there with Jeb Bush saying, your brother screwed up. Your brother got us in these wars. I'm against these wars. And now Lindsey Graham is the face of the Republican foreign policy. At least Lindsey is consistent. At least he's cheerleaders into every war. By the way, he's so consistent that Christopher Walker thought she had a gotcha moment with him. She said, oh, Lindsey, you think we're in war with Iran? He said, yes, I do. She says, well, then shouldn't you be for the War Powers Resolution? He said, no, I think the War Powers Resolution is unconstitutional. I think the president could just start any war he wants. I mean, that's Lindsey Graham's worldview. But Lindsey Graham was not elected President United States, and he never would be elected President United States. But they lied to people saying they were going to be pro peace. They got elected, and now Lindsey Graham is setting foreign policy. And you know what saddens me is this is what erodes trust. Because the next person who comes in the I don't care if they're a Democrat or Republican, the American people are just going to roll their eyes. You know, we've heard all that stuff before. We've heard the stuff against the endless wars. We've heard the stuff about releasing the Epstein files. We've heard the stuff about taxing the billionaires doesn't seem to change. They get in there and then they forget everything they promised.

[DJ Envy]

And I don't want a politicians or a government that seems beholden to other politicians and other governments. I don't care if it's Russia and Putin. I don't care if it's, you know, Israel and Netanyahu. Like, I just don't, I don't like that. I really do want us to be America first.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Well, absolutely. We should look at our interest. And, and by the way, if you think that the, the, the, the interest is, well, Iran is posing a threat to Israel and there's some, I don't even believe that they actually had the capability to go and strike Israel. But if you really believe that, then be honest with the American people. We are, we are taking this action because Iran is going to strike Israel within three weeks and we want to defend Israel, if that's the reason. But you can't lie to people. You can't say, oh, the, this is going to be a threat to the United States of America. This is, this is to protect the, the protesters when the protesters are still being slaughtered by the IRGC and lie about what's going to come next. They, they have no answer for what's going to come next in that, in that region.

[Host/Interviewer]

Another battle that you have spent some time talking about is term limits. And I think this is an important conversation because when you're at home and you're thinking about people who are older in Congress, how old some of our members of Congress are, you think they should leave. As a former executive director of the cbc, which is a Congressional Black Caucus. I know the only reason why we had chairs of committees is because of some seniority.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Yes.

[Host/Interviewer]

Which if you support seniority, you can't support term limits because you'll never really arrive to the, to the gavel, to the chairman seat.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

No.

[Host/Interviewer]

How do you thread that needle? Especially now because so many members, potentially even you, leave a seat to run for higher office. Jasmine Crockett, who's in a primary today

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

for Senate seat, endorsed her. Well, how do you think that's going to turn out?

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, I'm hopeful for Jasmine, but we have. Jasmine has just got there and she's become a fan favorite for holding it down in a committee room for some of the legislation she's introduced.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

She's brilliant in terms of her just

[Host/Interviewer]

turn up a phrase because I was getting ready to ask you about you potentially seeking higher office. So if you're for term limits, but you leave before you get the gavel. Does it really support the needs of your constituents, of the American people writ large?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Well, let me answer both of your questions. First of all, on term limits, I think this is a. The best argument against them. And I've supported 12 years for House members, 12 years for senators. But the reality is, with particularly the black community, a lot of black candidates had a very hard time getting elected statewide. The place that they could actually build political power was in the House of Representatives, and they had to claw their way into seniority. And you finally have people like Benny Thompson and Bobby Scott chairing committees. Gregory Meeks and Waters, Maxine Waters. And you say, well, come on, you're gonna. You can't just take away the one place that the black community has built power after years of segregation and discrimination. And that's why I think any proposal needs to be grandfathered in. I don't, I do not believe it should apply to the current people who have spent literally their lives fighting for equality. But going forward, the reason I believe it's necessary is otherwise you get people who just have the connections to the fundraising, and it becomes very hard for new people to come in without those term limits. But I would grandfather in any, any proposal. So it doesn't affect people who are currently chairs or have spent their whole lives working towards that. I was, you know, I'm lucky to be named the ranking member of the China Committee. If I, if we win back the House, I would finally get one of those gavels 12 years in, and I've got to win my campaign. I don't take anything for, for granted in terms of my own primary, but, you know, I would do a good job as, as, as chair of that, of that committee in terms of higher office. I mean, first, let's get through the midterms. Let's make sure we win the House. Let's make sure that we. That, that, that I win my race. Let's make sure that we, you know, I actually do get the gavel. But if I run, I would, I would run because I think we need people who are going to stand up to the billionaire class, the Epstein class, in a new gilded age. And I see these people, I know these people. A third of the stock market is in my district. One third of the wealth is in my district. I see the economic future, and I've had the guts to stand up to them. I know the technology, and I want to make sure that we actually have every person in every community benefiting, and it will be an uphill underdog campaign. If I were to run and you're

[Host/Interviewer]

saying run for president. Right?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

If I did. If I did. But, but, but you think that you

[Host/Interviewer]

would be formidable against Gavin Newsom. What sets you apart from Gavin Newsom?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Well, we have difference of philosophy. I mean I, look, I, Gavin has done a good job in standing up to Donald Trump. So I'm not going to say negative things about him, but I would just say, look, I'm for taxing billionaires more. He's not. I'm for single payer health care. He's not. I am for a free universal childcare at $10 a day. He's not. I come from a more economically populist vision. I've spent a lot of time figuring, thinking about how do we create good paying jobs in factory towns. And I call for economic patriotism and partnering with HBCUs and tech companies to create economic opportunity for those left out. So he, he has his strengths. But my view is the Democrats need to go on in a more economically populist direction to be able to win back the, the country.

[DJ Envy]

What about lobbyists? Because you know, one thing that you've been hearing a lot lately is, you know, people are very upset at folks who take money from, you know, aipac. So why is AIPAC taking money? I mean, why has AIPAC money become so toxic for politicians?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Yeah, one other philosophical difference and then I'll answer that question. I thought Charlie Kirk's murder was horrendous and I condemned it unequivocally. But I do not believe Charlie Kirk should be celebrated as a model for young men in America. I do not believe that his views that Ketanji, the Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson and Michelle Obama have less brain power then, then, then white Americans is something to be celebrated. And so, you know, there, there, there's also a difference in our party in how we talk about race in, in, in America in terms of aipac. I mean, I, they don't like me, they're spending money against me. I don't believe that we should be taking money from aipac. I don't, I believe we should be very clear that what happened in Gaza was a genocide. That we should not be providing military weapons and sales to Israel to kill brown people in Palestine, that we need to enforce the Leahy laws. I mean that's another area of difference between some of us in the Democratic Party and others.

[DJ Envy]

I hear people say that they're not going to vote for somebody who takes money from aipac. And my response to that is, well, who you gonna vote for? Because. Because damn near all of them take money from apac.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

It's changing. It's changing. I think I'd be surprised if from 26 and even in 28, whether many Democratic candidates take money from AIPAC. My guess is that will be something that most members of Congress say, no, we're not going to take money from aipac. And most people who run for president are going to say, we're not going to take money from aipac. But I don't think it's just about aipac. Are you willing to call it a genocide? Because if you're not willing to call it a genocide and all these people saw what happened on their phones, well, then how can we trust you to. To really say the moral truth? Are you willing to say we're not going to give military weapons to Israel that are being used to kill civilians? Are you willing to say that we're going to recognize a Palestinian state? And, you know, I believe in a. A multiracial vision of America. You know, one of the funniest headlines that happened in this whole Epstein thing. As you know, you may remember, my grandfather was part of Gandhi's independence movement and was in jail in the 1930s and the 1940s. And that, of course, inspires Dr. King. Mordecai Johnson had gone to India, comes back 1949, gives a speech, and King at the time is at the Crozer Seminary in Pennsylvania, and he learns about Satyagraha and Gandhi, and he has a Gandhi reader and Bible everywhere. But there was an article in the British press saying the long tales of colonialism, Khanna's grandfather jailed by the British monarchy, grandson in Congress, may bring down the British monarchy. I'm not trying to bring it down, but Prince Andrew, former prince, was arrested. So I come at politics, understanding historical oppression. But are members afraid of what happened to Cori Bush by saying that they're not going to take money from aipac, that they're standing against what's happening to the Palestinians? Is that a fear, though? Cori Bush was two years ahead of her time. My brother Jamal Bowman was ahead of his time. Jamal Bowman would have won today. You know, they just did those things at a time where it was a huge political price to pay. But the politics of this has changed in a way that I can't even describe over the last six to nine months. It's gone from being a position that was politically toxic to one that is actually politically safe. My. My stance against the Epstein class and my Stance for a billionaire tax is of much bigger political risk now than my stance against aipac. And that, that, that politics has shifted over the last six months partly because of people like all of you who've been calling out folks for taking that, that money and not having clarity.

[DJ Envy]

Do you think it'll be a time in this country where politicians aren't beholden to apec?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Yes, but, but, but do I think, but the broader issue is, you know, we've got so much money in politics, how are politicians not going to be beholden to a moneyed interest? Yeah, and that's very hard. I mean I, you know, I have a bill with Summer Lee to get rid of super PACs. We've got to figure out how we get more public financing campaigns. Anyone in the system is to some extent compromised. I mean, you're not being honest if you are in the political system and you don't think that raising funds makes you spend more time with people who have money. So that's a much broader challenge. And even if, by the way, someone wins for the, the presidency on a progressive platform, you know what these money and interest do, they find the one senator, they find the one committee chair in the House to block it. That's why half of Biden's agenda was blocked by Manchin or Cinema. I mean Biden was way more progressive than the House and the Senate were. So there's money in politics beyond aipac is an enormous issue and it's, it's the, the cardinal sin of our, of our political system. I always thought there should have been a cap when people run, there should be a cap amount of money that people can use.

[DJ Envy]

Because like you said, if I go

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

this way with aipac, I'm gonna get unlimited funds. Now you look at Cori Bush, that

[DJ Envy]

there's no way that she can match the funds that go against her.

[Host/Interviewer]

No possible way people could do more small dollar donors. But also she has someone run against her who just blatantly lied and said he wasn't running against her. Yes, he did shout out to Wesley Bell, I digress.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

She's running again though. Yes, she is. She was here the other day.

[Host/Interviewer]

I want to ask you, as you look ahead, you talked about a short term goal which is Getting through the 2026 midterms, of course, both personally and for the party. Absolutely, absolutely. So when you look down the road to the 2026 midterms, let's say it goes very well. And Donald Trump does not have his way with the elections, federal takeover, getting the voter Rolls purging them even when they shouldn't be purged. And miraculously, Democrats win back the House. Do you see yourself supporting Hakeem Jeffries as speaker?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Yes, and I know he's had some criticisms on this show, but I think he'll get elected unanimously. I think all parts of the party will rally behind him and especially if we have a significant win. And the one thing with, with Hakeem is that he gives a large latitude to progressives in the caucus to go do our thing. And, and he doesn't have a heavy fist in saying, okay, if you're critical of, of Israel or if you're critical of Iran war, that, that, please be quiet. And so I think he is, he will have the support of the caucus.

[DJ Envy]

They said. Did you see the story about. They said he just got caught funneling APAC money into Democratic primaries.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Is that true?

[DJ Envy]

I don't know if it's true or not. That's the story.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Which, yeah, I don't, I don't know. I mean, I, I genuinely don't know. My view on those primaries is that the D Triple C should stay neutral and let the primaries fight out how they will. I don't think we should be tipping our hand on one candidate or the other, but I don't, I don't, I don't know if my sense is that he's most focused on the red districts that we can win. So I genuinely haven't seen that story.

[DJ Envy]

You think we're going to have free and fair elections?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

We've got to fight for it. I think Trump will try to do everything possible to prevent it. He's going to have ice out there. He's going to intimidate election officials. We got to uplift our election officials. We're going to be facing threats. He's going to try to get people kicked off the, the voter rolls so they, they, they don't have registration or polling places when they show up. But we've one got to make it too big to rig. Got to win by a decisive margin. We've got to win by 20 seats and we've got to have people being election observers showing up at, at polling places. I guess what I say is, is it going to be challenging? Yes. Is it as challenging as what Jim Clyburn and John Lewis went through? No. I mean, you know, it's. Is it challenging what my grandfather went through?

[DJ Envy]

No.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Like, this is our fight. This is our fight for democracy. Every generation has a fight. We can win this fight. But, yeah, he's going to try every trick in the book to disenfranchise.

[DJ Envy]

This one feels different, though. This feels different like I've been hearing my whole life, you know, it's got to be, got to make it too big to rig. You got to have the largest voted turnout that don't feel like that's going,

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

especially with things like the Save America Act.

[DJ Envy]

Right.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

So how does that work with.

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

When he was. He's implementing all of these things to

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

keep people from being able to just

[Host/Interviewer]

vote legally and districts so they can't vote for someone who represents their interest.

[DJ Envy]

I wonder if he does that executive order he was talking about where he had control over the state elections.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Well, we got to make sure that the Senate holds.

[DJ Envy]

Right.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

They're, they're trying to get the Senate to pass the SAVE act by getting rid of the filibuster. And you know, the SAVE act basically would put a tax on every woman who's married in this country because you'd have to go literally with your marriage certificate to show that you had your proper registration. And that would depress women turnout. By the way, there are some states with recognize a hunting license to vote, but don't accept a student id. Right, Right. So it's going to hurt young people voting. But I believe we can prevent the SAVE act from passing the Senate. We have to fight to make sure that's true. But look, I'm not underestimating the risks. Like this is a guy who did mid decade redistricting. No one thought he would do that. I didn't think he would do that. Like we don't even know what he's thinking in terms of what, what he could do. And then Johnson can refuse to seat people. I mean, he refused to seat Adelina Graham to prevent the vote on the Epstein files. Imagine if you speak of the House and there's a close race, thousand votes, he just says, I'm not going to seat this person.

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

I think he does tell us what he's going to do. I just don't think we're listening all the way.

[Host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Yeah. He says it out loud. Yeah, but look, what, what tools do we have? Yeah, I mean, what, what can we do? We need election observers, we need to uplift election officials. We need to be anticipating that he's going to have ice. We did it in New Jersey, we did it in Virginia, we did it in California with Prop 50. The good news is we do have a lot of Democratic governors are going to be in charge in a lot of these states. So we need to Prepare that it's a battle. And then when we take back the House, at least then we can start to claw our way back, because then it'll be the House that then certifies the election in 2028. We don't win the House, we're. We're in a world of hurt.

[DJ Envy]

Y' all get all that power back, though, it's going to take some real courage. And, I mean, I've seen you display it. I've seen. That's. What's his name? Sumner Lee Summerlee. Summer Lee.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

She's great.

[DJ Envy]

You know, people like. I've seen there's people with courage, but you have, you know, a lot of people with courage that are going to do what needs to be done. I'm talking about, like, impeaching, you know, holding people accountable, prosecuting people, asking for arrest, things like that.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Well, impeaching is the table stakes. We gotta get it. We gotta have impeachment. But I'm with you. We gotta have accountability in this country. We never had accountability for the bankers that crashed the economy. We never had accountability for the people who tortured folks in Iraq or lied our way into Iraq. We did not have accountability for all these people in the Epstein class. We've gotta have accountability. You were part of DOGE that dismantled USAID, that led to 500,000 deaths. It's not just. Okay, let's move on. Kumbaya. We need to make sure that they're prosecutions. You were part of killing American citizens or immigrants or violated human rights in detention centers. There need to be investigations and prosecutions. If you were part of the killing of people in the Caribbean who are. Who are boatsmen, there's got to be investigation and prosecution. I'm all for reconciliation, but before reconciliation usually comes truth. It's truth and reconciliation. And the American people are tired of a system, of a lack of accountability. That's why this Epstein stuff has been resonating, because it's like, finally they're trying to have people accountable who think they're above the law, who think that they don't have to play by the rules. So I do believe, though, there are going to be people, whether it's Ayanna, whether it's Summer Lee, whether it's Robert Garcia, whether it's Greg Kazar, there are Pramila, Jaipal, There are a number of us in the House who are going to insist on. On accountability, and the chips will fall where they may.

[DJ Envy]

What's scary, though, is that, you know, like Republicans know that they not just going, they going to try everything in their power to make sure they get these midterms so that doesn't happen.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Yeah, that's why Trump's in it, that he knows that. He knows that his presidency is on the line and his life in terms of accountability is on the line in, in terms of prosecutions and investigations. And so he will, he will do everything in his power to hold on to power. I mean, they, they know, they've. They've known for the past 20, 30 years that there's a changing demographic in America. Obama spooked them in a, in a very visceral way. And they said, okay, how do we hold on to power? What do we have to do on the Supreme Court? What do we have to do in the Senate? What do we have to do in voting rights? How do we hold on to power for the next 50 years knowing that this country's demographics are changing and they don't even hide it? Stephen Miller is like, yeah, there are too many brown people in America. There are too many foreign born. He said that in tweet. Tweets back and forth. To me, Yeah, I mean, it's not about undocumented. It's just too many people. They fundamentally reject the 1965 act, which allowed my parents to come here, where they think that too many people from non European countries showed up in the United States. And it scares the, it scares them.

[DJ Envy]

What about a Thomas Massey roll kind of ticket? I've been hearing that the last couple of weeks.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

You promoting it?

[DJ Envy]

You know, I did have a conversation last week on my podcast about it because somebody in the room bought it up. They were like, yo, what do you think about a Thomas Massey Rokhana ticket?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

You know, I'll tell you what I like about Thomas Massey.

[DJ Envy]

Who would be the top and the bottom though?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

I mean, who knows?

[DJ Envy]

Jesus, you just gotta ignore him. You know, you have to ignore him.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

But I just watched him. Look, I didn't, I didn't even, I didn't even get the. My mind made the golden there.

[Host/Interviewer]

I didn't write it again. That's how I got it.

[DJ Envy]

Mine didn't either. But who would be the top of the bottom in that?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

You know, look, Thomas Massey says we a Christmas card every year and it's got his family which. With semiautomatic weapons outside of Christmas tree. We've got a lot of, a lot of disagreements. But the thing that people like is that we are willing to stop war. We're willing to hold accountable rich and powerful people who broke the law and, you know, I think that'd be a

[DJ Envy]

powerful message to the country.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

We have a. People want some sense of coming together. So, you know, you never know in American politics. Have you talked about it jokingly? He sends me. He sends me kind of Massey or Massy Khanna bumper stickers that are, that are out there. You know, there's something he saw, like the Epstein class that's going on. There was. Someone had a banner of the Epstein class and, and these bumper stickers. But I don't, you know, I don't think it's about Massey and me as much as it's about this, this sense in this country that things are broken. And here, here's, I think, what they like about Massey. I mean, we went across the aisle, we defied at times, our own party. We're willing to risk our seats. Like, you may say, okay, we're likely to win, but 60, 40, it's not 9010. Right. We're, we're willing to take on fights. And, and it's like, we both say, like, okay, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. We'll go back and we'll have a great lives otherwise. And I just think people want that. They want independence, they want folks who are going to take a risk. They want folks who kind of say what they believe as opposed to all the scriptedness of, of. Of politics.

[DJ Envy]

Do you trust them, Angela? Right on. Trust Thomas Mess, first of all.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Have you had him on?

[DJ Envy]

No, not yet.

[Host/Interviewer]

I don't know why. He just, He's a troll. I don't, I don't know. I don't trust.

[DJ Envy]

I don't know if I trust him.

[Host/Interviewer]

Jesus, what were we talking about?

[DJ Envy]

We talk on a ticket?

[Host/Interviewer]

Yes, we talked about them being on a ticket. I have no recollection of this.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Well, look, there. There are issues, of course, that I

[Host/Interviewer]

don't know him, though, to trust that

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

are fundamental issues, right? Abortion rights and, and, and, and immigrant rights and reasonable. Gun violence. Civil. Civil rights. I don't know his record on.

[Host/Interviewer]

Neither do I.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

So, you know, I, So you can't just say, okay, you know, how do you have a ticket? Well, it depends. Well, where he stands. Although some of those, those key issues. But I'd say in my interaction with him on the issues, I've interacted them. He's trustworthy in that when he tells you he's going to do something, he does it. He keeps his word and he doesn't politicize it. And so that, that to me, goes a long way in a Congress in terms of just his character. And really quickly, we are still in a partial government shutdown because Democrats want

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

different, they want restrictions for ice.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Where are we on that? I mean, should we fund the government or should we hold out for those

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

restrictions that Dems went on on ice?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

We should not be giving more money to ICE. I mean, Donald Trump already has $75 billion for ICE and it's a rogue agency. It's an agency that is out there killing Americans, killing people who are undocumented, having people in these detention centers. I went to one of these detention centers, California City detention center. There's someone who had blood in his urine, didn't have medical care for seven days. There's a guy with a broken nose came up to me and no health care, by the way. They know these people aren't criminals. You know how I know they aren't criminals? Because they had me in with 47 of these people in a room with no prison warden.

[DJ Envy]

Damn.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

You know they wouldn't do that if you were in some kind of high security prison where people are committing murders or robberies. These are not criminals in the sense that people think of the criminals and yet they're being mistreated. So why would we give another dollar to that kind of agency? We had immigration enforcement from 1940s to 2003. The INS under the Justice Department, where people were trained, where they had the same standards in law enforcement. We've got to have that kind of agency again. And then you have better intelligence sharing because 9, 11 happens. So you got to have intelligence sharing. But I, I don't believe that the ice, the way it's functioning is, should be get an additional dollar. Yeah. Rukhana, we appreciate you for joining us.

[DJ Envy]

You're doing some information this morning.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Thank you so much.

[DJ Envy]

I remember you told me like a year ago, we were having a conversation and I was need for me to say what I was saying, but you said that the work was going to prove itself and I think that you're doing that right now.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

I appreciate you. I appreciated your conversation. Look, I just think that there's, I don't know which way this country is going to go. But here's what I know. We've had a lot of showmen in our politics. We got a lot of people who thumped their chest who know how to message or you know, have conventional obey to charm people. And it ain't working. People's lives aren't getting better. We're getting into these wars and they're not standing up against real power. And all I know is we need actual substance. We need actual people who are going to take on real fights, not performative fights, and do real things and actually stand up for for people. And that, to me, is why you get into politics.

[DJ Envy]

That's what I told her. I told him he's not charismatic enough. You don't have a personality. But he said, the work will show itself.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

All right, well, thank you, Ms. Angela Rye.

[DJ Envy]

Thank you, Mimi Brown.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Ronna. It's the Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

Good morning. Every day I wake up.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Wake your ass up.

[DJ Envy]

The Breakfast Club. Y' all finished or y' all done?

[Ad Voice/Commercial Announcer]

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[Congressman Ro Khanna]

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[Host/Interviewer]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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