INTERVIEW: TIWA Savage Talks 'This One Is Personal,' Davido, Tyla, Afrobeats, Ageism, Dating, Healing + More

Summary

The Breakfast Club: Tiwa Savage Talks 'This One Is Personal,' Davido, Tyla, Afrobeats, Ageism, Dating, Healing & More

Podcast: The Breakfast Club (iHeartPodcasts)

Date: September 23, 2025

Host(s): Charlamagne Tha God, Juju Green (with Lauren LaRosa also present)

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Episode Overview

This engaging episode features Nigerian music superstar Tiwa Savage discussing her deeply personal new album, "This One Is Personal." The conversation spans Tiwa’s artistic evolution, genre experimentation, healing after heartbreak, industry challenges such as ageism and misogyny, high-profile relationships and fallouts, cultural differences, therapy and spirituality, and her vision for supporting the next generation of African artists. The tone is candid, vulnerable, humorous, and empowering, offering an authentic look into the life and mind of one of Afrobeats’ most celebrated voices.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. The Making of "This One Is Personal"

• A Deeply Personal Project:
  • Tiwa reveals every lyric on the album is rooted in her real experiences and emotions, not fabrication.

    “Everything was like, exactly what I went through. Every single emotion, every single line.” — Tiwa Savage [03:51]

  • Inspired partly by heartbreak, but also years of unaddressed pain—culminating in this cathartic musical expression.
• Breaking Afrobeats Expectations:
  • Afrobeat is often about feel-good music, but Tiwa wanted to break that mold:

    “I decided to take a leap of faith and just really put out my heart, which we don’t really get in Afrobeat.” — Tiwa Savage [04:16]

  • She tapped into her R&B roots, inspired by Brandy, Monica, and 90s US sounds she grew up on.
• Musical Risks and Industry Doubt:
  • Tiwa risked industry backlash by focusing on live instruments and vulnerable storytelling:

    “People are like, in the world of TikTok, no one’s really gonna mess with this type of music… I wasn’t worried about streams or anything.” — Tiwa Savage [06:35]

• Album Process:
  • It took two years to finish the album due to stop-start creative cycles and emotional labor.

    “I would stop and start...I want to really do this type of project as R&B leaning, and I have to do it with my full chest.” — Tiwa Savage [09:31]

2. Love, Heartbreak & Healing

• “I’m Done” and Heartbreak:
  • Tiwa admits the song “I’m Done” reflects genuine uncertainty about loving again after deep pain.

    “I really do [feel that way]. That place was dark...I'm scared that someone's going to come or the right person's going to come and I’m just going to project my trauma on them.” — Tiwa Savage [16:22]

  • The song was the hardest to write and record; she skips it when listening to her own album.

    “Even now when I listen to the album, I skip that… I haven’t been able to perform it.” — Tiwa Savage [25:18]

• Therapy & Black/African Stigma:
  • She openly shares about going to therapy to heal, defying cultural taboos around mental health.

    “I still do [therapy]...We don’t talk about it a lot in my culture. In Nigeria it's like, what? No, just go to church.” — Tiwa Savage [18:07]

• Celibacy and Standards:
  • Tiwa shares candidly that sex for her is tied to real love, revealing she has gone years celibate post-relationship until fully ready to trust again. [20:06]

3. Navigating Fame, Ageism & Misogyny

• Starting Late & Age Bias:
  • Tiwa encourages late bloomers, having released her first song in her 30s:

    “I resented my parents for so long for making me wait…but now looking at it...I did it in my 30s when I’m much grounded.” — Tiwa Savage [30:07]

  • Faces discrimination from brands and festivals that try to box her as “icon” for older demographics.

    “Young people really, like, they really mess with me a lot. And a lot of them don’t even know how old I am…” — Tiwa Savage [32:54]

• On Misogyny & Double Standards:
  • Tattoos, outspokenness, and even personal crises like her sex tape are judged harshly for women in her culture.

    “Male artists are covered in tattoos and they’re like, yo, he’s a rockstar. For us, they said I’m gonna go to hell.” — Tiwa Savage [66:10]

4. Industry, Collaborations, and Rivalries

• Not Just the “Queen of Afrobeats”:
  • Tiwa embraces her title but wants others recognized too, especially as African artists are often unfairly lumped together.

    “It’s a continent—we speak different languages!...Just because you’re from a certain place doesn’t mean you should only do that music.” — Tiwa Savage [13:04]

• Collaborating with Brandy and U.S. R&B Stars:
  • She expresses awe at working with her idol, Brandy.

    “I remembered when I was just, like, 13, 14, I had to just step out to be like, yo God, are you really doing this for me?” — Tiwa Savage [06:12]

• The “Big Three” & Gender in Afrobeats:
  • Pushes back on the narrative that only Burna Boy, Wizkid, and Davido matter in the genre.

    “This is a continent...we keep reducing it to three artists every single time...” — Tiwa Savage [58:52]

  • Critiques the lack of women in these discussions, blaming cultural misogyny and industry gatekeeping.

    “Women are still...undermined in my culture, so it’s obviously gonna trickle down into music.” — Tiwa Savage [66:10]

• Comparisons to Other Female Artists (Tyla, Tems, Ayra Starr):
  • Addresses skin-color comparisons and fan-fueled rivalries in the industry.

    “I saw that kind of coming with Ayra, and I’m like, nah, you guys are not gonna build this awkwardness between us.” — Tiwa Savage [61:51]

5. Personal Controversies & Handling Trauma

• Her leaked sex tape:
  • Tiwa details the trauma and public shaming she faced, especially in Nigeria, where morality culture is strict—even as she was victimized by a partner’s breach of trust.

    “They brought my son into it and said I was unfit mom...That hurt me more than the actual thing.” — Tiwa Savage [46:48]

  • She tried to take control of the narrative by speaking on it directly in interviews, but was still accused of seeking attention or PR.

    “Before you embarrass me...I'm just going to go on air and say, listen, something’s going to come out and they’re threatening me...” — Tiwa Savage [70:13]

• Relationship Rumors (Wizkid, Davido):
  • Clarifies misunderstandings about rumored secret romances, specifying certain incidents were not about fellow artists like Wizkid.

    “It’s not about Wizkid. I said the person was a public figure, but not an artist.” — Tiwa Savage [21:04]

  • Responds to the estrangement with Davido, explaining a social media fallout tied to her friendship with his daughter’s mother.

    “I guess I was at an event and she was too...He saw that and he took it as I was betraying him...that’s not the case.” — Tiwa Savage [54:51]

6. Boundaries, Authenticity & Growth

• Learning to Say “No”:
  • Tiwa describes personal and artistic growth—embracing authentic self-expression and refusing songs she doesn’t connect with.

    “I used to be a people pleaser...I’ve learned how to just say no and...set boundaries.” — Tiwa Savage [36:50]

  • Setting boundaries lost her friends and collaborators, but brought her peace.
• Empowering Other Artists—But With Wisdom:
  • Discusses why she hasn’t signed artists herself; instead, she’s focusing on opening a music school with Berklee, offering scholarships, and developing talent beyond the stage.

    “Everybody gets stuck on artists, but there are so many parts of music...that’s my way of helping people.” — Tiwa Savage [71:18]

7. Spirituality & Transformation

• Faith—A Source of Strength:
  • Increased discipline in her spiritual life helped her heal and refocus.

    “Now I’m spending time [with God]...it has been life-changing.” — Tiwa Savage [27:12]

• Healing Message for Listeners:
  • Hopes her album gives listeners validation and hope.

    “Whatever they’re going through is valid, but also listen and know that you can get through it and heal.” — Tiwa Savage [74:41]

8. Cultural Differences & Globalization

• Loving the Fresh Start in America:
  • Tiwa enjoys reintroducing herself to U.S. audiences and escaping the weight of fame back home.

    “It’s an opportunity...to reintroduce myself again and, like, learn from maybe stuff that I’ve done.” — Tiwa Savage [11:32]

• Explaining Controversies Across Cultures:
  • Recognizes the difference in reaction to scandals and therapy between Nigeria and America, especially regarding religion and gender.

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NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

• On creating the album:

  “I wasn’t worried about streams or anything. Like, seriously, I really wasn’t.” — Tiwa Savage [06:35]

• On heartbreak:

  “I’m scared that someone’s going to come or the right person’s going to come and I’m just going to project my trauma on them.” — Tiwa Savage [16:22]

• On ageism:

  “I want to be doing this till I’m 80. Like, I’m gonna keep going.” — Tiwa Savage [34:01]

• On misogyny:

  “Male artists are covered in tattoos and they’re like, yo, he’s a rockstar…for us, they said I’m gonna go to hell.” — Tiwa Savage [66:10]

• On boundaries:

  “When you set boundaries, it’s lonely. I never realized how many people I was going to lose by setting boundaries.” — Tiwa Savage [37:24]

• On her future:

  “If I wanted to do that [quit music], I would have had better lighting. I would have set it up right. ...If I really wanted to put that out.” — Tiwa Savage on rumors the sex tape was for PR [45:06]

• On supporting female artists:

  “No one has done, in terms of females, more songs with females than me. ...So you coming on and saying, I don’t support females, that’s already wrong.” — Tiwa Savage [67:07]

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TIMESTAMPS FOR IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

• Introduction & Album Context — [02:07–03:07]
• Making the Personal Album — [03:07–06:30]
• On Brandy’s Influence & Working Together — [05:07–06:03]
• Creative Process, Nashville Sessions — [06:35–07:23]
• Song "10%" Story (Studio, Heartbreak, Humor) — [07:23–08:59]
• Therapy & Healing Journey — [18:02–18:32]
• Addressing Public/Private Romance Rumors — [20:31–22:38]
• Sex Tape Story & Cultural Reactions — [45:06–48:21]
• Fallout with Davido and Industry Relationships — [50:40–55:29]
• Big Three Debate, Culture & Misogyny in Afrobeats — [58:52–66:11]
• Supporting (Not Competing With) Female Artists — [67:07–68:33]
• Giving Back: Music School & Scholarships — [71:11–72:31]
• Final Message of Healing & Hope — [74:32–75:41]

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FINAL THOUGHTS & TAKEAWAYS

Tiwa Savage delivers a blend of radical honesty, humor, and introspection, offering listeners an intimate look at personal and professional growth through adversity. She challenges stereotypes—about genre, age, gender—and reclaims her narrative from both industry gatekeepers and public controversies. Tiwa’s journey is a testament to the power of authenticity, setting boundaries, and creative courage, making "This One Is Personal" as much a statement of artistic liberation as emotional healing.

Transcript

[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Juju Green]

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[Tiwa Savage]

Hi, everyone.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's Regina hall and Teyana Taylor here.

[Tiwa Savage]

Let us give you one reason after another to see our new movie, One Battle after Another.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Here we go. Leonardo DiCaprio, Benicio del Toro. It's a great story.

[Tiwa Savage]

Action, laughs, thrill.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You got some heart. And badass women. That's us.

[Tiwa Savage]

That's a pretty good list.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's so many reasons why you need to catch one battle after another.

[Juju Green]

Only Beatus Friday from Paul Thomas Anderson. Rated R under 17 on middle without parent.

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[Juju Green]

Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club. Yes, it's the world's most dangerous morning show. The Breakfast Club. Charlamagne, Tha God, DJ Envy. Jess. Hilarious. Jess and Envy aren't here today, but Lauren LaRosa is. And we got a special guest in the building. She has a new album came out in August called this one is personal, but personal. Ty Savage. Good morning.

[Tiwa Savage]

How are you?

[Juju Green]

How you feeling?

[Tiwa Savage]

I'm good.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I feel blessed every time I run into you in New York. You just always look amazing.

[Tiwa Savage]

Really?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes. I love. Literally, you're one of my favorite people to just run into because it just be so effortless every time I see you.

[Tiwa Savage]

Oh, thank you, man. I want better from you.

[Juju Green]

Tiwa, why are you in the same places as Lauren? Your life is amazing. Okay. Why are you in the same places as Lauren?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That could have been so positive, right? I could have been like Lauren. I like running into Tiwa. She's in all these great places because she's this huge superstar.

[Juju Green]

Okay, you know what? You're right. Let me change my perspective.

[Tiwa Savage]

You know what?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I was. I was about to say something to you, but not in front of company. Some things you need to change.

[Tiwa Savage]

We're going to be on our best behavior.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes.

[Juju Green]

Now, the name of this album is. This One is personal.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yes.

[Juju Green]

When I'm listening to the album, the first thing I think is who is the man who broke her heart and inspired this?

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, it was. It was. It was hard. It was. But honestly, I think I feel like it's like a combination of different scenarios. I think that there's different things that I've gone through that I really haven't. I hadn't dealt with. And I was just moving and just going on to different things. So it just. The last one was just really like. It was really bad. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was really. I don't want to give him too much credit because I'm doing way better than him, so I don't want to kick him while he's down, girl.

[Juju Green]

So what is specific moments or events that you drew on while making this album?

[Tiwa Savage]

Every single thing was something it wasn't like, you know, like when you're writing or you're in a studio and you're kind of fabricating stuff. No, everything was like, exactly what I went through. Every single emotion, every single line. Everything was like, yeah, it was deep. So. And that was really important for me for this project because doing Afrobeat, a lot of times it's about feel good. Right. But I decided to take a leap of faith and just really put out my heart, which we don't really get in in Afrobeat.

[Juju Green]

That's interesting because, you know, when I'm hearing now, it does sound like this more traditional R B. Yeah. Right. So. So you think it's. I don't want to say impossible, but it's hard to deliver these kind of messages with Afrobeats.

[Tiwa Savage]

I don't think so. But for me, it was hard for me because I'm from. I fell in love with R B. That's like. That was what really got me into doing music. Like, you know, I saw Brandy, and that's how I was like. Yeah. I started shedding Brandy and listening to Brandy. So for me, that's my comfort zone. So when I want to listen to something to evoke some kind of emotion, I go back to my R B playlist. So I had to go back to that for me. I mean, other people can. Can do it with afrobeat, but it wasn't. It's not typically what I would do. Yeah. So I went back to my first love.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I could feel the Brandy in it. But even too, I think the sound and softness of your voice on some of the songs, which I don't. You probably didn't do it purposeless, just your voice, but it is very Brandy reminiscent.

[Tiwa Savage]

Like, nah, she's like my mentor, man. Like, she's like, yeah. The reason why I even really, really got into music was. Yeah. Just studying her. Like, studying her harmonies, her vocal layer, and everything was just. Yeah, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you guys have a personal relationship, too, or just, like, aspirational mentor?

[Tiwa Savage]

Well, we have a song together. Oh. So we've done a song together called Somebody son. And, yeah, definitely, obviously worked with her, did the video. And we still, you know, in DMS and phones, we still. Yeah, yeah. She's. She's. She's incredible. You know, they always say, don't meet your idol.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. No, it was. Yeah, she was. It was completely different. I was so in awe of her, like, recording it in the studio. I couldn't even stay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I had to leave the studio.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I couldn't stay. Like, wow. Yeah, it was.

[Juju Green]

It was like, did that fuck with your performance? Was that mess with your performance? Like, do you feel like.

[Tiwa Savage]

Well, I'd already recorded my part, so when I was just sitting there, just listening to her in the studio, like, I was just like, wow. I remembered when I was just, like, 13, 14, I had to just step out to be like, yo, God, are you really doing this for me? Is this really happening? Yeah, it was, like, a blessing. So. Yeah.

[Juju Green]

How did you decide which stories you were ready to share on this album and which ones you want to keep private?

[Tiwa Savage]

I didn't keep anything. I did. I just. I put everything out. Like, I was just like, yeah, I need to. And a lot of people doubted. A lot of, you know, people were like, it's a bit too personal. People are not really going to relate. It's a bit too musical because I had like on 10, for instance, I had like live instruments. I went to Nashville and those are live horns, live guitars, live drum, live bass. I even had like, instead of some songs, I didn't put like a second verse. I put like a musical break. And people like, no, in the world of tick tock, no one's really gonna. No one's really going to mess with this type of music. So it was just like, yeah, no, this is. I studied music, so I need to. I need to go back to my route. And I did. I wasn't worried about streams or anything. Like, seriously, I really wasn't.

[Juju Green]

10% of such an interesting song. Because you say that your phone was on 10%.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Juju Green]

While you're in the studio.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yes.

[Juju Green]

From some guy somebody signed.

[Tiwa Savage]

No, no, seriously, it was. No, it was.

[Juju Green]

You decided to leave in the middle of a session.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yes. And I went to get some.

[Juju Green]

Damn.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yes. And I've like, literally, like, I just got out of that situation and I was like, I'm gonna be outside. I don't care. Like, I wanna just, you know, just be wild. And. Yeah, I got. I got a message and it was just like, come over. And I was like. Then I got a picture and I was like, oh. Oh my God.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So wait, did you.

[Juju Green]

Did you saw what you mean a picture? Like, but you think she got a picture?

[Tiwa Savage]

So I got something. It was a picture.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Not a video though, right?

[Tiwa Savage]

No, it was a picture.

[Juju Green]

You know what we call that? We call that being dickmatized.

[Tiwa Savage]

Wow.

[Juju Green]

Girl, if you in the middle of a studio session, you working towards your goals and your dreams and this man can just call you and get out.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, because you know, it's like, you know, like when you're going to the gym, you're going to work out so you can free your mind.

[Juju Green]

Oh, okay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Your Phone was on 10% though. Did it die in the car?

[Tiwa Savage]

You just knew I was fast. That's why I was going fast. I was telling my driver, like, you need to hurry up, because you know, when I get to his place, I want to be able to call him and be like, I'm downstairs.

[Juju Green]

You didn't have to drive him if they had a charger.

[Tiwa Savage]

No, no, I was my car, but it was my driver.

[Juju Green]

Gotcha. You didn't have a charger in your car?

[Tiwa Savage]

No, I didn't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You worry about the wrong thing.

[Tiwa Savage]

Okay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

She was in the back spraying on a little spray. Spray. Getting the lip right. Like, she was getting you ready.

[Tiwa Savage]

I'm ready. I'm ready.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So what's.

[Juju Green]

Hold on now. So after you got your mind cleared and you went back to the studio.

[Tiwa Savage]

And I didn't go back that day. I chilled. I was like. I wasn't in a rush. He wasn't trying to kick me out.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Did you spend the night?

[Tiwa Savage]

What?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Or the day. That's the most vulnerable you've been.

[Tiwa Savage]

This album. We need to know.

[Juju Green]

Yeah. I just want to know creatively what came to you after. After you came.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I knew you was gonna be so corny.

[Tiwa Savage]

Addicted.

[Juju Green]

Oh, okay, okay. All right.

[Tiwa Savage]

Oh, my God.

[Juju Green]

Listen. And it said it took you two years to make this album.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, it did. It did.

[Juju Green]

Why? Because what were some of the biggest challenges?

[Tiwa Savage]

I would stop and start. Initially, I would, like. A lot of people are trying to convince me to go more Afrobeat. So I would be in the studio and I would record a lot, and then I'll listen to it and I'll stop and I'll say, no. I want to really do this type of project as R B leaning. And I have to do it my full chest. I can't just dabble like I've been doing for years. So it took me two years to just. And also, like, mentally to be ready, emotionally to get through that, to be able to sing, sing, sing. And I think when you. When you want to do, like, R B records, you have to sing, sing. You can't just. I can kind of get away with it sometimes enough for a beat, but vocally, I had to get my chops up, so it took me a while.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you get a pushback from some fans? Because, like, you know, I know you dibble, dabble into the R B, but now this project is very much R B. It doesn't sound like Afrobeats, are they?

[Tiwa Savage]

No.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How do they feel about that? Your fans?

[Tiwa Savage]

My real fans really know that this is what I wanted to do. Anybody else, I don't care. I'm not seeking their opinion. Yeah. So I don't. But to. To be honest, I've gotten so much love.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes.

[Tiwa Savage]

Some from even people that weren't my fans. People who didn't even really listen to your Savage, for instance, would be like, yo. And a lot of them don't even know I'm Nigerian. So they're like, yeah, but they think I'm just like, you know, an American singing, like. And they're like, who's this new whatever? And I was like, yo, she's African. Wow. Like, so it's opening me up to, like, a whole new Audience, I was.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Talking about how, like, crazy it is when I was seeing you around for Fashion Week, there were a lot of people that I was with who didn't know who you were. But because you are so, like, gorgeous and, like, you know, you're performing and you're walking in the shows, they're like, who is this girl? And I'm like, I don't know her. But coming over here to the US There probably are a lot of people, even though you've been back and forth, you know, that are discovering you now. What is that like for you? Because you've been here.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. You know, a lot of artists find it hard because they're so big in their territory. Whatever. They find it hard to, like. I don't know if it's an ego thing, but they find it hard to, like, go somewhere where maybe nobody knows who they are. Like, and I love that. I actually think that it's an. It's an opportunity for me to reintroduce myself again and, like, learn from maybe stuff that I've done and where people actually know me and they know things about me that, yeah, I'm trying to, like, shy away from. So for me, this is my introduction again to, like, a new market. I love it. I love going to, like you said, places, and they don't know. They don't know who I am, and I'm just introducing myself. I'm starting all over again. But this time I'm starting better because I've learned now there's certain things that I may not do or I may.

[Juju Green]

Do, but when people look you up, you know, they say, oh, she's the Queen of Afrobeats. But that sets an expectation.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yes. Yeah.

[Juju Green]

And I know that you always reject the title Queen of Afrobeats. Why? Why is that?

[Tiwa Savage]

I don't reject it, but I feel like I've, you know, when I've embraced it in the past, they feel like I've done it and I've excluded other women or I felt like I'm the only one. And so now I try to explain that, yeah, I. I do embrace it. I love it. I'm not shying away from it. But there are other. Other women that, you know, should get that or should get that. I get that spotlight.

[Juju Green]

You think people put African artists in.

[Tiwa Savage]

A box all the time? I think even with award shows, like, you go to award shows, and then there's a whole continent in one category, like an Afrobeat category, and then you're like, I'm not doing what Burn is Doing. I'm not doing what Tyler's doing or whatever. It's just a whole different. Like, it's a continent. Like, we speak different languages. So it's like, for me, it was really important for me to also do this for them not to put me in a box, because I can, Like, R B is, you know, my background, and I can do it authentically well. And I want that to be able to inspire other people where, you know, they want to do a hip hop art album and, you know, whatever. I mean, do it well if you're gonna do it. But, yeah, just because you're from a certain place doesn't mean you should only do that type of music.

[Juju Green]

It's gonna be interesting to see how musical award shows recognize this album. Right. Because. Because it should be in the R B category.

[Tiwa Savage]

Right.

[Juju Green]

But they might say, oh, she's from Nigeria. Just put her in the I know category.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. And that's. That's nerve wracking for me too, actually. But again, I think I've just blocked my mind to, like, I'm not doing it for awards. I'm not doing it for whatever. I'm doing it for, like, my core fans. Like, that's. That's the only way I can. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to do it. I would have snuck in more Afrobeat records, more Afrobeat features and collabs, and it would defeat the purpose. Like, I wouldn't. I wouldn't be doing it with my full chest. Yeah. So I need to. I needed to get away from that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What's the background of your. Like. Like, where does your love for R B come from? Because looking you up, I saw that you wrote for Monica prior to you did back. You sung back up for Mary J. Blige. You put vocals on one of Whitney Houston. Houston's last albums. How did you fall? Like, you don't just. You don't. Not even how did you fall? You don't fall into that type of stuff. So what was the journey getting to that point of those things?

[Tiwa Savage]

It was. It's like a snowball effect. So I was in London. I started. I went for backup. Like, there's auditions for, like, backup sing. And I got it. I was, like, excited. Like, yo, I'm getting paid to do this. Like, this is crazy. And then from there, I'm watching tv. I see. I want to be down Randy. And I'm just obsessed by it. So I just really started studying, studying her. And then you just get into, like, this rabbit hole where you're now discovering Monica and SWV and Mary J. Blige. And it's just going and going and then I'm just getting good at it, like. And then I'm getting gigs from just doing backup vocals. From doing backup vocals. My dad. My dad is like, you can't do music unless you study for music. African parent. And I'm like, Nigerian. Yeah.

[Juju Green]

And I'm like, go be a doctor.

[Tiwa Savage]

Right. So my first degree was an account. So I did accounts, gave him the degree. I said, I want to go into music. He said, no, you have to study music. I'm like, that. Michael Jackson did not go to school with music. Like, that's not what we do. And he forced me to go in audition for Berkeley in Boston. I got a full scholarship, studied jazz and then I started songwriting. And then like. Yeah, I just started building my resume from there.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wow, that's pretty insane.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Juju Green]

On. On the song I'm Done, you say you don't want to love again.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Juju Green]

Do you feel that way for real?

[Tiwa Savage]

I really. I really do.

[Juju Green]

What?

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Juju Green]

Be careful what you say to the universe now.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, I know, I know. And I just. That place was dark, you know, it was for me to. I. I'm scared that someone's going to come or the right person's going to come and I'm just going to project my trauma on them. Yeah. That's because I'm going to give everything. I'm really honestly going to give everything. And can I really do that again? And just. Unless God opens up the heavens and says, this is my child, this is who you're supposed to be with, I can't. I can't see myself opening up like that again.

[Juju Green]

But if God is. If you know that you have unhealed trauma.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, I would say I'm about 70%, 80%.

[Juju Green]

So go work on it.

[Tiwa Savage]

I am. I'm still doing it every day. I still. Yeah, I still do it.

[Juju Green]

So you don't want to meet somebody until you are a more healed version of yourself.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. I need to be completely like.

[Juju Green]

Got you.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, completely. 100% whole.

[Juju Green]

Cuz right now you're just toxic.

[Tiwa Savage]

No, I'm not.

[Juju Green]

What?

[Tiwa Savage]

No way.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Are you hurt still? Is that what it is?

[Tiwa Savage]

No, I think n. That. That situation, all of those situations is done. No, I'm just. I'm just a bit. I'm just wary, man. Cuz I can't. I don't believe words. Yeah. Yeah, I don't believe. Yeah, I don't believe. Yeah, I don't believe. I don't believe words. I'm just. I'm. I'm hard now, like. Yeah, you have to. You have to really come hard.

[Juju Green]

You said this album was therapeutic for you.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, it was.

[Juju Green]

So have you ever actually gone to therapy?

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Juju Green]

Okay. Okay.

[Tiwa Savage]

And I still do.

[Juju Green]

Okay.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. Like, before, it used to be regular, like, a couple of times a week, but now it's like, as of when I need it, like, if I feel like, okay, I need to just talk to someone about something. Yeah. Then I still do. And I think we don't talk about it a lot in my culture. Yeah, yeah.

[Juju Green]

It's a stigma. I mean, I think it's just black people all across the globe here as well. Yeah, I think it's. It's changed.

[Tiwa Savage]

I feel like more. You guys are more open to it.

[Juju Green]

It's changed over the last several years. Yeah, I think so.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. Yeah. Now in Nigeria, it's like, what? No, just go to church. Just go and pray.

[Juju Green]

I believe in God in there.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Tiwa Savage]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, here. I think it depends on the age of the person you're taking. Talking to. Certain age of like. Like older. I know, like in my family. Older black women in my family will tell you, just go to church.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, but they mean you need to speak to someone.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes. Deeper and all the things. But we younger will say, you should probably do therapy or talk to a friend or something like that.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But a lot of people use chat GPT now for therapy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

For therapy.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. A lot of people say to me, you're wasting your money. Just put it into the chat. I'm like, what? Put it in the chat. It's crazy.

[Juju Green]

When did you realize that you just didn't want to love again, though? Because I feel like that's a temporary thing because it's impossible for humans not to love.

[Tiwa Savage]

I love my son.

[Juju Green]

Yes, absolutely.

[Tiwa Savage]

Right. I. I love my team. I love, you know, my friends. I've been married before. I'm like, yeah, I'm not. I'm not young. I'm 45. I'm. Yeah, I'm good.

[Juju Green]

But you love other things, like penis. I'm just saying.

[Tiwa Savage]

I don't know if I.

[Juju Green]

And those come attached to me.

[Tiwa Savage]

I've gone, like, maybe like three years without. I don't. It's not something like, I really like. I'm crazy about.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wait.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

365 days times three.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, yeah, I've done that.

[Juju Green]

So you don't need. So you have to be in love to take it.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yes, yes. I have to be with Someone for me to even think about it. Like, I don't have toys. Like.

[Juju Green]

Yeah, I understand that.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. Maybe I need to. Maybe that's what. For my Christmas present. Maybe people should get me some toys.

[Juju Green]

All right, now. Now you about to have a whole bunch of roses for Christmas, and you're gonna be wondering why. Why are all these boxes buzzing? They gonna be checking them for bombs at your show? They got time for that?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, go ahead. I was gonna say, you recently got your fans going. You're trying to figure out who you were talking about. You did an interview. You did an interview. You talk about this secret romance, and, you know, this celebrity you were dating, and it had to be on the low, and they would do parties at the house, and you would stay away from the people when the parties would be going on. Now, people want to know who the heck. Because people think you're talking about Wizkid.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, I know. And, you know, man, shout out to Wizkid. I love Wizkid. I respect Wizkid. It's not about Wizkid. I said the person was a public figure, but I didn't. He's not an artist.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, so just, like, someone of importance.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, someone. Yeah. So, yeah. Oh, man. I. I woke up, and I saw that, and I was just like, oh, my God. It's not whiskey. Oh, yes. No, man. He's probably watching it. Like, what the. How did I get dragged into this? Like, nah, it's not. No, it's not 100.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Were you wanting to, like. Because, I mean, keeping it private is a personal decision, probably by the both of you guys. But initially, yeah, I was about to say, yeah. But it gets.

[Tiwa Savage]

So that's how he got me. Like, oh, you know, I cherish this so much, and I want this to be, you know, I want us to build a foundation. And. And I'm like, oh, yeah. You know, this is amazing. And. And then before. And. And then people are like, yo, how tiwa. How can you let someone treat you like that? Like, and it's like, it didn't just go from 0 to 100. Like, the way men work with your psyche is like, they chip a little bit. And then before you know it, you're like, yo, how did I even get here? Yeah, so it's like, first is, like, he doesn't want people to know. Then the thing is, like, he'll change my name on his phone, so if I'm calling him, people don't know it's me or whatever. Then. Then it's like, when we go out, we go in separate place cars, and we leave separately. And then it's like, oh, when we go out, you might see me with someone. It's because I don't want people to know. And then it's. And then it just progressively just gets worse to the point where I'm somewhere. You're literally working the room, and you're telling me it's because you don't want people to know.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And when you say work in the room, you mean dealing with other women?

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What did that do to you? Just mentally, because now I'm kind of understanding where the you don't want to love again comes from. That's a lot to unpack. And that's just one situation with one person.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. At the time, I didn't think it was that bad. I didn't see how bad it was. Like, my friends are telling me you're crazy. Like, this is. My friends are like, this guy's playing you. And I'm like, no, look, I understand. We have an understanding. I know what he's doing. Like, he doesn't really like her. He's not. He's just, you know, doing this for me.

[Juju Green]

And had you gone, does that message him?

[Tiwa Savage]

No way. And now. Now I'm 20 talking about it with you guys. I'm like, I'm embarrassed even, like, how did I. Yo. Because I used to be that type of person to look at girls. I break guys, cars. I'm like, yo, I can never get to that point where the guy will get me to. And then now that girl, this, like, accepting, like, it's. It's so. It's so embarrassing for me to know that I allowed that to happen.

[Juju Green]

I want you to know it comes off in the music, though, because I think a lot of times when you try to balance, you know, these themes of love and heartbreak and faith, like, sometimes it can feel performative rather than authentic. But when I'm listening to it, I'm driving like, boy, who hurt her? Like, somebody did a number on her.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, man, that was real.

[Juju Green]

How did you navigate that, though? How did you navigate, like, balancing those themes to make it feel authentic rather than performative?

[Tiwa Savage]

I had the right people. I was working with the right writers. Yeah, I had. And it wasn't a lot. It wasn't like a camp where it's just like, we're trying to make hits. You know, I was very vulnerable with these people. Like, for the first, I would say, even week, we didn't make Music. We were just hanging out in this house in Malibu, and I was just hearing their story, and they were hearing my story. So, you know, it was more like we bonded before we even started, like, recording. And, yeah, I was really, really open, and I said, listen, this is like, I. I'm due an album, I'm due a project, but I can't. Until I get this out, I can't do anything else. And there was a lot of times I was crying, especially the first record. Yeah. That took me, like, four attempts to record.

[Juju Green]

Oh, I'm done.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. Yeah, that was. That was really. Even now when I listen to the album, I skipped that. Yeah. I can't listen to it.

[Juju Green]

Wow.

[Tiwa Savage]

I haven't been able to perform it. Yeah, it's been. Yeah, it was. It was tough. Wow.

[Juju Green]

So that's. I was gonna ask, is there one song on the album that felt the hardest to write or record? It's clearly I'm done.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, I'm done.

[Juju Green]

Wow.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. But then I end the record with Change with James Fauntleroy, where it's basically just saying that I want to change back to who God created me to be. So it's not changing for a man. It's changing for changing for God. Going back to factory setting, like, you know, Interesting. Yeah.

[Juju Green]

I don't know if you go back to factory setting. I think that you have these. No, I think you have these experiences, and they. They. They actually turn you into a better version.

[Tiwa Savage]

But don't you reboot? You know when something's like. When something. And you switch it, like your phone, you completely switch it off and then switch on because it's just tweaking. I think I was like, I needed to switch off.

[Juju Green]

But what did you learn, though? Like, they always say, you know, it's not a loss if you learn something from this.

[Tiwa Savage]

I learned what I learned. When it's red, when it's a red flag. It is a red flag. It's not off red. It's not pink. It's not light red. It's what it is. And I'm learning to accept. So, yeah. Yeah. I'm just. That's. That's the main thing. And just valuing myself and knowing that really. Yeah. I. I wasn't the problem, and I don't have to change for somebody, and I'm enough, you know, all the, you know, cliche type of things, but they're cliches because that's what it does. That's the truth. So. But mainly, if someone shows you who they are, like, really Just accept it from the first go. Like, save yourself the heartbreak.

[Juju Green]

Faith is another topic you examine. Right. So how has your spirituality changed or grown after making this album?

[Tiwa Savage]

I've always been a very. Like, you know, I'm Christian. I believe in Jesus, so I've always. That I think is just me going back, like I said, going back to. Not just, like, I do this thing where I just pray in the morning, like, quickly, like, thank you, Jesus, for today, and then that's it. Like, but. But now I'm spending time. Yeah, yeah. Spending time with him and knowing that it's important for me to take out time in the day and be disciplined like, that, to me, has been, like, life changing.

[Juju Green]

So how did Pray no More come about?

[Tiwa Savage]

Ooh. So Pray no more is like, what if I was to be in a relationship again? That's the song. Like, I'm saying, like, you could pray about your career, pray to God about money, pray to God about anything. But when it comes to me and my love and my loyalty, you don't need to pray no more. You got. You got me. Yeah.

[Juju Green]

Because you know that if you do grow to love somebody again, this is the real, real.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Tiwa Savage]

You don't. You don't need to, like, pray no more. Say no more. Like, you got me. Yeah. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I saw you were in the studio with Fab last night.

[Tiwa Savage]

Mm.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You for me? Cause you for me. You sampled the original song with Tamiya.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. Mm.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So we getting a remix with Fab? Is that what's about to happen?

[Tiwa Savage]

I hope so. I hope so. Yeah. We were there. I played a couple of records, and he definitely gravitated to that, but I'm a bit. Cause would he remix a remix? Cause he's already. Do you know what I mean? Like, I was a bit skeptical to ask and be like. But he.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wait, he was there? You didn't want to ask him?

[Tiwa Savage]

No. I played other records that he loved as well, but then he loved that too. So I'm hoping by today or tomorrow, I might get something, I feel like. And I hope that one.

[Juju Green]

Yeah, I feel like that makes the most sense.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. Really? But, you know, like, lightning doesn't strike in the same place twice. So is it kind of be like you should have left the original?

[Juju Green]

Maybe that's why you do it. You know what I'm saying? You experiment with it. If you don't like it, you don't like it.

[Tiwa Savage]

No, you can't tell someone. Like, you can't have someone like Fab do something. Be like, no, you can't do that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I feel like he's a type.

[Tiwa Savage]

No way.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That can. He can, like, flip it. Like, he. He takes it, like, sampling his own. Like, he.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, he's too good. He's. He's not even ever going to go below. Yeah, he's. He's too good. He's too smooth.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Embrace New York and, like, just all of it. It just feels like you're living, like, a different life right now.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, New York is good. When you have money, that is not lucky. Yes. I was living here and I didn't have money. Y. Yeah, I hated New York. But being in New York, when you have a little. A little coin in your pocket, it's just a great. It's a great city.

[Juju Green]

That is a fact. Now, you didn't put out your first song till you was in your 30s.

[Tiwa Savage]

Is that true?

[Juju Green]

So what would you say to people who have a passion but feel like it's too late to pursue it?

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, man, that's. That's my life. That's story of my life. And I feel like I resented God and I resented my parents for so long. Yeah. For making me wait. Like, for making me do Two Degrees, because I could have been out when I was 20, 21. Like, doing 2 degrees then and then made me work as an accountant.

[Juju Green]

But what God had to do with that, because. Nigerian.

[Tiwa Savage]

No, no, I just resented him. Like. Like, he. I felt like he should have made me give me the opportunity a lot sooner. But now looking at it like I did. I did it in my 30s when I'm much grounded. I'm not phased by fame or money. I'd seen people come and go, so I'm way more humble. I. I understand how hard you have to work for certain things that I've learned from the greats. And also for me, like, I feel like I can speak to people, like you said, like, even models, like, who feel like if they're not successful by 25, they need to retire. I think that's crazy. Or a footballer, like, by the time you're, like, hitting 30, you have to go to Saudi or something to start playing. Like, that's. To me, that's crazy. If you're still fit and you can.

[Juju Green]

Still do it, it's a little different. Like you said, they got to be. Physically. It's a physical thing with music is more mental. It's more emotional. I would think that the more experience you have, the better.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. Like, I always say to someone, if I'm going into operating table, and that's. They give Me two options of a doctor or a surgeon. And they say this guy is young and he's fresh and he's only been doing. And they're like, this guy's like 60 something and he's, you know, he's been operating on people. He's never had any cases of whatever. I'm gonna go with the experience, guys. And I feel like with music, the older you are, the longer you've been in the industry, the more seasoned you are. I don't know why they try and shut us out the older we get. Like, it's just, it's crazy to me. Like. Yeah.

[Juju Green]

Was it more difficult, you think?

[Tiwa Savage]

When I started, people didn't realize how old I was, so they became fans and then by the time they realized they were like, what, you're how old? But they're already like tuned into the. Like they already like my fan. Like they already love the, the brand. So. Yeah. But now I think, would I say it's difficult sometimes, like, and I don't shy away from it. That's usually one of the first things I say to people like, hey, you know, because. And then when they find out, some people actually be like, yo, we can't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because of your age.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. Brands, artists would be like, what? Yeah, like they'll. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, I've heard from label friends that music, they always look for younger artists. But I didn't think it was that point because you're established, like you have music, you have fans, you have numbers.

[Tiwa Savage]

Like I'm talking about in terms of like opportunities. They might say the demographic don't really, you know, say, they always try and box me in this icon. Oh, we think she can perform. Like if there's a festival or whatever and there's like three dates, they sometimes will try and box me in like the icon stage or whatever. And. But young people really, like, they really mess with me a lot. And a lot of them don't even really know how old I am. But they will now.

[Juju Green]

Who cares? I'm happy to be because I'm 47. I embrace every single year because being alive is a blessing.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Juju Green]

Consider to the alternative. You can wake up dead and a.

[Tiwa Savage]

Lot of people don't make it.

[Juju Green]

That's right.

[Tiwa Savage]

To our age. Like so to me, when they throw it in my face, they would say the 45 year old and I'm like, you're not that. That's a blessing. Like they always say, you will see people in my comments being like, oh my God, is she still singing? You should give it Up. You should this. I'm just like, yeah. And it just gets me angry. Like, I want to be doing this till I'm 80. Like, I'm gonna keep going.

[Juju Green]

Well, I'm glad you said that because I saw you saying that you were suggesting that this might be your final album.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, I think I was saying you were worn out. Yeah, I was just drunk. Maybe I was drunk that night. I was just like, oh my. I must have seen something. An article must have just pissed me off. And I'm like, okay, fine, I'm not doing this again. Then I wake up the next morning and then I'm like, ugh, geez, I need to make money.

[Juju Green]

How emotionally exhausting is it to just create music? I don't think we ever talk to artists about that. Like, you spend all of this time. Like you said you spent two years traveling all around the world, and then you might put something out and then be one person. Like, yeah, this is whack.

[Tiwa Savage]

Or they give it like a three out of ten.

[Juju Green]

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tiwa Savage]

No, I'm not even gonna lie that that's. You could talk about anything. I could. The controversies and I have had a lot. But when it comes to music, that's the thing that gets me. Cuz I put so much into it. And again, everyone didn't like, Jesus. So who am I like? And it's. The music is subjective. So when that happened, I just tend to. What do I do? I. I just drink.

[Juju Green]

Damn.

[Tiwa Savage]

I just get over it. I just like, chill out, watch something, drink, hang out with my friends, and buy. The next day. I've forgotten about it.

[Juju Green]

I just. Man, who did this to you. But I need to hear his side of the story.

[Tiwa Savage]

Trust me, he will be.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He'll.

[Tiwa Savage]

It's not. It's even worse than that. It's worse. I. I gave the PG version. There's a lot. Yeah, it was really bad.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You gotta keep it PG for us. I've heard worse than here. I said it too.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, yeah. Why not? Let's not.

[Juju Green]

In what ways do you think this album marks your growth, though? Not. Not just as an artist, but as a person.

[Tiwa Savage]

Musically, I think you can hear like, you could. You could just hear like there's growth and there's. There's confidence in, like, me attempting to do this. Like I said, like a Nigerian girl doing straight up R B. Yeah. It just shows that I'm in a space where I'm not doing music for tick tock moment. I'm not doing songs that. Yeah, you can hear that this song, this 20 seconds of this part is going to be a, you know, a viral moment. You could hear that I'm. I'm comfortable and confident in the woman I am now musically and just in life. I'm not chasing anything. I'm enjoying. I'm enjoying being here. Like, I'm enjoying doing the press runs. I'm enjoying waking up early and they're like, I have to do this. And I'm. I'm actually enjoying it now.

[Juju Green]

What came out of the process that surprised you about yourself.

[Tiwa Savage]

Saying no? Yeah. I think I feel like I used to be a people pleaser. A lot of the songs that became huge for me, I didn't like them. A lot of my hit records I didn't like, but I said yes. And I, you know, but I've learned how to just say no and be. And per. Say in a, in a, you know, in a grace, gracious way. Like in, in the session, I'll say to the producer, that's not for me. It's a great record. It's going to be a hit. Whoever's going to do that. But that's not where I'm at.

[Juju Green]

Boundaries are important.

[Tiwa Savage]

Very, very. And. But when you set boundaries, it's lonely. I never, I never realized how many people I was going to lose by setting boundaries.

[Juju Green]

But they weren't. They clearly weren't meant to be around you anyway.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, that's what I'm learning. But it's still lonely, though, because when you're used to being. When you travel and then it kind of like as an artist, you know, you're walking into somewhere and you have like 10, 20 people and, you know, everyone's like, oh, who's that to? Like, me going to event. It's just me and my manager. Like, it's an adjustment, but then it's also cheaper. And like you said, it's like peace of mind.

[Juju Green]

One thing I respect about what you just said, though. You said that, you know, you did songs that you didn't want to do, but they were still hits.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Juju Green]

So a lot of people. You talk about programming earlier. A lot of people. Default setting would be like, well, let me just keep recording these songs because they work. But they weren't making you feel good.

[Tiwa Savage]

No, no.

[Juju Green]

Even with the success.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it felt good to be, to do. See, I listen to like, you know, I would listen to like my label or whatever and be like, okay, I'll do it. And then if it works out, I'm like, you know, cool, you know, you're right. You know, I'm glad I listened to you, but I have to listen to myself as well. And I have to motivate myself and challenge myself and be like, yeah, no, I've done this for the past 10 years. I've done. I know how to do those type of Afrobeat hit records with my eyes closed. I'm not excited anymore. Like, I want to be able to, to go on stage and sing records and have people crying or like look at them and they, they know or I feel that they can feel the music. Like I wanted. I need that in my catalog. Not everything is about this car and that and look at my diamonds and I'm the savage and I'm this. Like, okay, we get it.

[Juju Green]

Yeah.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Juju Green]

Give me something that's gonna make me feel some. Feel something.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Juju Green]

Like real substance.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, I needed that. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You, you mentioned how coming to the US gave you like, kind of like a fresh start. And you mentioned some of the controversies that, you know, have been, have. That you've been through.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How exhausting is it to go through things like, you know, the controversies that we've had to see you talk about publicly and then come back out with music and, you know, people don't want to talk about these things.

[Tiwa Savage]

Depends. Controversy as well. It's been a lot. The type of person I am. I've said this before. I laugh about things. I laugh. Like I would, I, I would make fun of myself. Cuz I feel that was, that was how I would cope with it. I feel like if I make fun of it and I pretend like it's, it's not really getting to me. That's how I used to deal with things and I would put it in my music and I. But the way I would put it in my music would be like, you know, when I talked about the sex tape and Loaded and I said, who's never had sex before? But you know, like. And that's, that's how I was able to kind of like try and get through it. But in hindsight, did I really deal with it? I don't think so. And that's what I'm doing now. It's like I was hurt and I'm. And it's okay for me to say I was hurt. I was a victim. It happened to me. As opposed to just trying to let me make a hit out of it and you know, I don't care. And you know, like, so now it's different. Yeah. Now it's like I am, I'm living In. In the truth. In my truth. And admitting to myself that, yo, that shit hurt me.

[Juju Green]

But why couldn't you admit that? Of course that would hurt you. If somebody tries to blackmail you over a sex tape. Yes.

[Tiwa Savage]

They. My people didn't see it like that. They thought I did it for pr. A lot of people thought.

[Davido]

From Paul Thomas Anderson comes one battle after another.

[Juju Green]

What's going on, everybody? It's your boy, Juju Green, AKA Straw Hat Goofy.

[Tiwa Savage]

You're a movie guy, and I'm sitting.

[Juju Green]

Here with the lovely and, quite frankly, badass women of one battle for another. We got Regina Hall, Teyana Taylor and Chase Infinity. When you first read your character on that script, what did your character remind you of?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

As you can see, you know, we don't always agree with a lot of things that perfidia do, but for the most part, we see a survivor. We see a woman that's in survival mode. You know, we also see a woman that's unapologetically herself, but then she is also, like, mysterious and, like, you know, she got, like, a little sex appeal that's like, you know, how's she pulling.

[Tiwa Savage]

Them in like that? You feel me?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, she's mysterious and she's also, like, a master manipulator. And she's like a octopus. She can, like, get her way out of anything. You know what I'm saying?

[Juju Green]

Yeah, I love that.

[Davido]

One battle after another in theaters Friday. Experience it in imacs and other premium formats. Rated R Under 17 not admitted without parent. Get tickets now.

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[Juju Green]

Check out the intense new season of Reasonable Doubt. Now screaming on Hulu, L.A. s most sought after and successful defense attorney Jax Stewart thought she had seen it all. But now she will face her toughest case yet when she defends a young actor loved by millions and accused of murder. Join Jax as she takes on the district attorney, the press, and even her own partners to prove his innocence. The jury's verdict will determine Jax's future and the fate of her client. Following Emma, Yahtzee, Coronaldi, Morris Chestnut, Joseph Sikora and guest stars Kash Doll, Lori Harvey and more as fight their personal battles in the spotlight of the year's most sensational murder trial. In the pursuit of justice, every move counts. Reasonable Doubt season three, now screaming on Hulu. And Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers, terms apply.

[Tiwa Savage]

Oh, she's not relevant anymore. And she's doing this. And I'm like, guys, trust me. That's. If I wanted to do that, I would have had better lighting. I would have. I would have set it up right. I would have been in sexy lingerie. My facial expression would have been not what it was like, you know, I mean, it would. It would have been completely different if I really wanted to put that out.

[Juju Green]

Performing.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, like, so I just want you.

[Juju Green]

To know Africa is a big continent, right? But There's a lot of people watching this interview who might have never even heard that story. But there's going to be a big Google search today. Real Savage Sex day. I'm telling you that right now. Oh, my God. I'm just letting you know.

[Tiwa Savage]

And they're gonna.

[Juju Green]

And he.

[Tiwa Savage]

From God, he's not even denying it. He said, no, I'm just telling you. He said, what?

[Juju Green]

I'm just telling you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay, look, just plug the song too, so they listen to that.

[Tiwa Savage]

Right, right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Whatever happened to the. Like, what was the end result of that? Like, did you figure out who was trying to do the extortion? Were they arrested? Like, what happened?

[Tiwa Savage]

No, I didn't. I never. I didn't. I didn't pursue it. I never. We tried, actually, but, yeah, we couldn't. And me trying was just like. It was just too traumatic for me to keep talking about it and just. Yeah, like I said, I just. I just wanted to, like, just. Yeah. Just move on from it.

[Juju Green]

I'm sorry that happened to you.

[Tiwa Savage]

No, thank you.

[Juju Green]

I think it's also, you're from Nigeria, so it's like, a lot of. It's very religious and. Yeah, it's like, they probably was a lot harder on you, yo.

[Tiwa Savage]

They were like, how can you. How can you at your age have a sex tape with someone? And I'm like, first of all, I didn't even know, like, you could. Don't watch it. But I didn't know it was happening. And the person was my boyfriend at the time. So even if I wanted to do a sexy. That was my boyfriend. Like, but they saw it as being immoral. They thought it was just dirty. And I'm like, I know what some of you guys do is even worse than this, but I. I was a scapegoat. And that was. That was painful for me, man. It was really painful because they brought my son into it and said I was unfit mom. Like, my son. My son's gonna grow up and see this and he's gonna be disappointed in his mom and how can I do this? And my parents. I had to talk to my parents about this. And yeah, it was. It was. That hurt me more than the actual thing.

[Juju Green]

Wow.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, it hurt me more. Like, you're. You're. You're saying that I'm. I'm a bad mother.

[Juju Green]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tiwa Savage]

For having sex.

[Juju Green]

Like, for something that was out of your control.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. Like, I mean, thankful. My family. The first thing my mom's. My mom calls me and she's like, I'm just Happy you're getting.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Right, Mom.

[Tiwa Savage]

In her own words, she's like, don't listen to them. Or I'm just happy that you're enjoying yourself. And I was just like. Yeah. And just hearing my mom say that was just like.

[Juju Green]

Did you knew you. Did you know you was being recorded?

[Tiwa Savage]

No.

[Juju Green]

Got you.

[Tiwa Savage]

No.

[Juju Green]

So it wasn't the guy that put it out.

[Tiwa Savage]

Oh, my God. Okay, so he said he was trying to save it, and then he pressed sent by accident on Snapchat.

[Juju Green]

And that sound like forever. The movie, the TV show, you know, same thing happened. Kill. Yeah.

[Tiwa Savage]

Really? Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

There was a younger. She was a younger girl, though, and she was giving head and she was recorded and he. The video got released and she was like, the whole show. She's like fighting back again. Like, she had to move school.

[Juju Green]

I think that was his excuse. He was like, I didn't mean to hit sin. I meant to say.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, because it. The. The thing was next to each other apparently. So he said he was trying to save it to show me later, but he didn't even. Yeah. And then he's pressed sent by accident again. And I later on found out that it was a bear. It was that he really bet with his friends or whatever. And it's like, was he younger than you? No.

[Juju Green]

Oh, okay.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Juju Green]

Because I have a theory. I always tell women of a certain age, but leave these young boys alone because they recording everything.

[Tiwa Savage]

What?

[Juju Green]

Yes.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. Now, I'm not going to anyone's hotel. You're coming because you can have cameras hitting and. Yeah. And you're coming to my safe space. But, yeah, even that itself was traumatic because I. He was my boyfriend. I thought we were in a relationship. And then I'm hearing later that it was a bet. So did you really like me or this was just planned from the beginning? Yeah, that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's got to be so scary for you, even now because you're bigger as an artist. Even now.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. No, now. Now. Yeah. You're looking at your phone. You're putting your phone down. That's why it's just really hard. Like, I'm not coming to your hotel to meet you. You're coming to my place like. Or I'm getting a hotel. Cause I'm not bringing you around my son, so.

[Juju Green]

Damn.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Juju Green]

Come on, Lauren. More controversy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Juju Green]

Since we're here. Since we're. Since we're on.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I just can't imagine being recorded on accident and it leaking, but okay.

[Tiwa Savage]

At least I was shaving.

[Juju Green]

At least. That's very important. That's Very important.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes. Clocky. Oh, is she?

[Juju Green]

Brandon.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What? We are not going to do that.

[Tiwa Savage]

We are not going to do that.

[Juju Green]

I know you done lift up her.

[Tiwa Savage]

It was clean.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We had Davido here on the show.

[Tiwa Savage]

Oh, God.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, he. He mentioned while he was here that, you know, that I saw a couple.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, you saw it?

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What happened between you and Ty Savage, man? I know y' all were like, really, really close.

[Davido]

Like, that's my sister, man. She cool, man. Like I said, you know what I'm saying? Even with the big three question you asked me, you know what I'm saying? I remember when all of us house, you know what I'm saying? Coming up together, you know what I'm saying? Me and Tiwa used to stay in the same house.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Davido]

Big sis, like, you know I'm saying she saw me as a youngin, you know what I'm saying? But the situation with Tiwa was, you know, like, kind of personal, you know what I'm saying?

[Juju Green]

She's.

[Davido]

She's very, very good friends with my. The mom of my daughter, my first daughter, which, you know, we. We were in court having custody and stuff like that. So I just felt like, you know what I'm saying? You my. You know what I'm saying? Help me. Help me.

[Tiwa Savage]

Take no.

[Davido]

See my daughter. That type stuff. So we just got in a little argument. It was nothing, you know what I'm saying? It was just like brothers and sisters arguing. You're cool now. I haven't seen her since then, to be. To be honest. But she did reach out and you know what I'm saying? So probably if it happens, it happens. And I know Bad blood. I love her, you know, I love her child. And I saw him grow up.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Davido]

You know what I'm saying? She's an amazing person. She changed the game for females, you know what I'm saying? She'll always have that respect, you know. That's my sister.

[Juju Green]

Like.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Davido]

I'll never let nothing happen to her. She knows, you know what I'm saying?

[Juju Green]

What about Wizkid? Do you love Wizkid?

[Davido]

That is not his sister. That's not his sister.

[Juju Green]

I'm just asking.

[Davido]

I love everybody, man.

[Juju Green]

I do want to ask a question about the big three, though. Like, if they call Burner the rebel and they talk about Wizkid, he has the mystique. What's your lane in that big three?

[Davido]

Me, I'm Joseph. I'm just me. Like, I'm just me.

[Juju Green]

Like a worker. That's what I mean. I was like, you used to work. That's what I thought.

[Davido]

People. People know me as the outgoing guy.

[Juju Green]

Yeah.

[Davido]

I'm saying very, you know, free, you know, I'm saying I don't have that mystique or that rebel, you know what I'm saying? I can't act that way. I'm just me. And people. Sometimes some people be like, man, you're too free. You're too free sometimes. Don't you know you're a superstar? I'm like, bro, I've been listening. I'm going Disney Worlds out, two years old. Like, this does not.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Davido]

Like, I. Like I always say, like, if my dad walks in the room, like. Like, if you're walking on the road, you know, I'm saying, my dad passes you by, you probably wouldn't even know. Like, that dude got a billion dollars. I'm telling you. So that's how I grew up. My manager be getting mad. Like, I be in the house. I'll be in slippers. Like, I'm like, bro, I'm home. What you want me to do, look good every time? You know what I'm saying? But there are people that are born artists. That. That's just how they. They coming out their room, like, you know what I'm saying? That's people. Some people are like that, you know what I'm saying? That's what works for them. And to be honest, it's worked for them, you know what I'm saying? What's worked for me has worked for me. And what's worked for them, you know, it's worked for them. Maybe if they, like, free like me, you know, maybe they wouldn't get what they have, you know what I'm saying? So. And maybe the way I am is what has helped me.

[Tiwa Savage]

So.

[Davido]

It's just like everybody. I feel like everybody in every industry, like, just like how you had the big three back in the day with, like, Jay Z, they were all different kind of people.

[Juju Green]

Yeah.

[Davido]

They'Re different kind of people. You know what I'm saying? Drake outside, you know what I'm saying? And Kendrick is like, you don't even know what that next move is. So it's like they're different kind of people, and that's okay, you know what I'm saying?

[Juju Green]

That's okay.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I saw you talk to Rolling Stone a bit about it, about how you felt about it. Did you feel like it seemed like he was sorry for whatever transpired and that y' all were good. Now, was that the Feeling you got from it?

[Tiwa Savage]

Well, we haven't seen or spoken since, so. Yeah, we haven't. I haven't seen him since then or spoken. But I. Again, I want to say I think it was a miscommunication, but there hasn't been any kind of communication between us. But I definitely. I was. I was hurt by how it transpired. I mean, I don't know if he explained, you know, what kind of happened.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, but you can explain it for you from your point of view.

[Tiwa Savage]

So our kids are friends, and they've gone to the same school since they were one. They're 10 now, so they've gone to the same. They've been in the same class for 10 years. So I've not. I've known David before that, but I've naturally grown a relationship with the mother of their kid. And I. I didn't really know that, you know, there was issues. I mean, I know that he's moved on and he's married, you know, whatever, but I don't know what's going on apart from that. And I guess I was in. I was at an event, and she was too, so naturally, like, hey, how are you? Da, da, da. We're partying, drinking, doing snap and whatever. And he saw that, and he took it as I was betraying him. And I'm like, what? How? Like, what's going on? And that's why I said I think it was a misunderstanding. Like, he felt like I knew what was happening and I was on her side, and that's not the case. Like, this is just a woman that I know who's the mother to my son's friend. And we were at a social gathering, and I see her, and we're, you know, chilling. So like I said, we haven't seen each other since, and. And even if I did know, I don't think I would have chosen a side either. Like, I don't think I'm gonna be like, oh, because you guys are having issues. I'm gonna be on David's side, or I'm gonna be on Sophia's side because our kids are friends.

[Juju Green]

That's right.

[Tiwa Savage]

And it's not my business to. To take sides. Like, yeah, just like, I don't want anyone to take sides with my situation. It's between me and the father of my son. I don't think anyone should be dragged into it. But again, he felt like I was. I should. I should have been loyal to him in that situation.

[Juju Green]

But, yeah, how does that turn into you being. Submitting a letter to the police, though, saying if anything happens to me, it was him.

[Tiwa Savage]

So I think out of anger, maybe he might have made threats. Do I think he was really gonna go ahead with it? No. But again, I'm not taking any risks. Like, I feel like you could. You could be saying it around people who want to now act out on what you're saying. Do you get what I'm saying? And you know how it is when your crew and his crew might. And it might not even be he and I directly might be someone from my crew fighting his crew, whatever. And it escalates again. Before I did that, though, I reached out to members of his family. I'm not going to say names, but people that are older than him. And I said, listen, I'm hearing threats. Can we solve this? And none of them came back to me. In fact, one of them was just like, do what you need to do. I was like, all right, cool.

[Juju Green]

Damn.

[Tiwa Savage]

Like, just for the record, I want. Before I do anything, can we solve this? You know? And. Yeah.

[Juju Green]

He said, you're like his big sister and he will always love you and would never let anything bad happen.

[Tiwa Savage]

No. Yeah. That's why I said, do I think he was ever gonna carry out? No, I think it was just, you know, David is such a joy. Like, he's just a joyful person. Like. No, when I said it, and he's. He doesn't mean it, so. And I. And I feel like that, too. I feel like he is like a brother to me, and that's why it hurt. And we haven't seen each other, and I'm sure it's going to be all love. It's definitely all love for me. And I want him to know I haven't spoken to you, David, but I do want you to know that I do love you, and I've never. I would never betray you or, like, take sides. I just want you to know that I'm always putting our kids first, so. And that's why I just feel like I have to be respectful to the mother of a child world.

[Juju Green]

See, that's love right here. So why'd you say the Big three?

[Tiwa Savage]

Oh, my God.

[Juju Green]

That's just the music stuff.

[Tiwa Savage]

No, no, no, no, no. So not them, like, but the narrative of the big three. Yes, Like, f. That narrative. Because this is a continent. This is so many artists, and we keep reducing it to three. Three artists every single time. When we have have diamond, we have Flavor, we have Yemi, Aladdin, we have Thames, we have, like, the list, like. Yeah.

[Juju Green]

And Tim's. I love Asagi and Tim's. I'm like, they're my two. Right?

[Tiwa Savage]

Right. Yeah. And I'm like, the likes and we don't include them in the top three. Why? Like, so I'm like, f that narrative. Yeah.

[Juju Green]

I wonder why that is though. I mean, you're right. It's like you hear Burning Boy, you hear Whiz Kid, you hit Davido. But for me, I. Being that I listen to a lot of us and listen to a lot of Tim's, right, I'm like, I, I don't know, I wonder why it is just those three. Is it sales? Is it maybe.

[Tiwa Savage]

And I think they have a really strong fan base. So their fan base is very, they're active.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, they're very, very active.

[Juju Green]

Even you, you, you gotta be in that conversation as well.

[Tiwa Savage]

Like, I mean, you know what I.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

See people do a lot and I don't know if you see this too. They put you, they put you and Tyler. Like there's a conversation a lot with.

[Tiwa Savage]

You and Tyler, not me and Tyler. I haven't seen that.

[Juju Green]

I don't get that one.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think it's, I think. Well, I think it's because if you're not from where you guys are from, anybody that's like big from a certain type of music, people just like to talk about you guys. At one point I, I saw conversations with like Tim's Tyler, like, just who's the girl?

[Juju Green]

I see you and Tim.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, who's the girl now? And then even when they had, when we were having the, the colorist conversation, people were having conversations about dark skinned women from certain places being able to make it versus lighter skinned women. And then they got mad about the color. The comments. Like, I've seen the, the conversation around you guys, but more so should you. More so of like a skin color thing.

[Tiwa Savage]

Oh really?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes. I've seen that conversation.

[Juju Green]

I've seen you Tims and Starr.

[Tiwa Savage]

Ira. Ira. Ira star.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Ira Star feels like you're like, she's kind of like. You big up her a lot, right?

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. I love Ira. I love Thames too.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

See, I don't see hate. Not hate, but comparisons with you and Ira Star.

[Tiwa Savage]

Really? Well, maybe because we've, like I've. We're both. I was signed to Don Jazzy and she's with Don Jazzy now. And he's. You know, anyone has ever been under him. Pause. But yeah, no.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That'S right.

[Tiwa Savage]

I don't want this to be taken out of context. But yeah, anyone who's Ever been associated with him knows that he does not play that. So he. Yeah, he's. Yeah. And just. But I love her regardless, anyway, and I just have to respect his artist. But regardless of that, I love Ira.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think too, though, in music, like whenever we were talking about this earlier with Cardi, whenever you get to a certain point, people just have to like, there's that competitive nature that comes in from the fans and just the people and the critics. Like, it just happens.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. But I feel like as artists, we have the opportunity to. What's the word?

[Juju Green]

Correct the narrative.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. Earlier on, like, I saw that kind of coming with Ira, and I'm like, nah, you guys are not gonna build this awkwardness between us. And I'm posting her, she's posting me. So the fans can't even. They can't even kind of like build that narrative between the both of us. Because earlier on we were just like, yeah, let's dead this conversation. This is not even that. It's not a topic.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I know you guys are from two different places, but when the colored conversation was happening with Tyla, from your perspective, how did you feel about the conversation and just how she handled in people's reaction to it.

[Tiwa Savage]

You guys are serious. I feel like two truths can be real at the same time. I feel like maybe I don't really know what the first thing she said was that sparked the whole conversation, but I do know that from where she's from, she's. You know, she was. I think she. She does it. She doesn't consider. They don't call her black.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They call her colored.

[Tiwa Savage]

Colored because she's. Because she's mixed. And I guess I get why that would be such a huge thing here because of. I mean, the history behind that name, you know, I don't know. I think I felt for her a little bit because I feel like she's young and I don't think she means to come across like that. But where we're from, where I'm from, when something like this happens, like they say, the elder will come and say, on behalf of such and such, we apologize. You know, that's what I feel like. If that wasn't. If that wasn't communicated, I would like to say, you know, like, on behalf of that. Her or whatever, like, we apologize. Like, you know, we didn't mean it. Forgive us, you know, because I don't think it came from a bad place, you know, I mean, I don't think it came from a bad place.

[Juju Green]

And they making it to me, they're making it bigger than what it needs to be. I've heard her explain it, and it makes perfect sense to me when I.

[Tiwa Savage]

Hear her explain it. Yeah.

[Juju Green]

And then, you know, recently she put out an album and it didn't do well. And they were blaming the comments. And I'm like, I don't think that's the case.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, yeah, they were blaming you, too. Charlamagne.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Juju Green]

And I ain't doing that.

[Tiwa Savage]

He always says that. He's like, I didn't do that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You got to know, if you come to anywhere at that time when everyone's having that conversation, you're going to be asked. And I think that they should have prepared her to at least glide through the question. Like, it was so, like, I'm not answering that. Like, it made it a thing of like, well, why not?

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When she described it in Vogue right after that, and I was like, okay, girl, you could have just said that.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, but have you. Have you guys never earlier on in your career made maybe mistakes?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Hell yes.

[Juju Green]

Never.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He smelled he smelt somebody's seat when he never happened.

[Juju Green]

She lying. I was. AI.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Was it JLo?

[Juju Green]

No.

[Tiwa Savage]

Why? Because you wanted to smell if it was nice?

[Juju Green]

It was a bet. It was a bet. I bet. I'm serious. It was a bet.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He's been dumb for a very long time.

[Tiwa Savage]

No, but yeah, so I feel like she's learning. Yeah, she'll learn from that. And then she'll now. She'll now know, like, when I'm going to certain interviews, like, yeah, I guess. Let me watch. What type of interviews are they? You know, do they ask hard questions? And let me be prepared.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, you know, I think people, too don't. When they're watching celebrities do the things that y' all do with interviews and stuff, you don't realize that. Or fans don't realize that you guys are people. So sometimes even if she's prepared to answer the question, she might be nervous, and still she's sitting with, you know, you come here, you sit with, like, a charlamagne, and he makes people nervous.

[Tiwa Savage]

I was not prepared for you guys to ask me this. I'm like, all I can say is.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That makes people nervous.

[Tiwa Savage]

No, no, no. I'm okay. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You're all in your business. I'm really intrigued.

[Juju Green]

I do want to know why do you think female. Why do you think female African artists don't get in the big three conversation? Like, why aren't they?

[Tiwa Savage]

I think culturally still, women are not. What's the word?

[Juju Green]

It's a lot of Misogyny?

[Tiwa Savage]

Yes. Yes. So even culturally, not even just in music, for me, I've said this before. When I got my tattoos, I was, I was trending. I'm gonna go to hell. You know, what kind of mother am I? Nobody's gonna marry me with this. I'm never gonna get a day job. I'm like, yeah, I don't want a day job. But, you know, like, male artists are covered in tattoos and they're like, yo, that's he's a rock star. So not just in music, just in general. Women are still, like, undermined in my culture, so it's obviously gonna trickle down into music.

[Juju Green]

I feel like you do very well with a podcast. I really?

[Tiwa Savage]

Really?

[Juju Green]

Yeah, I really. Cause I saw you say how you had to sneak away from your team. Cause you wanted to be more outspoken. And, you know.

[Tiwa Savage]

Oh, yeah, I cursed him out. What, some. What, he came? No, there was a guy and he said, TIWA does not support female artists, and she's not signed a female artist. And what kind of legacy is that? And I said, what, are you crazy? Like, first of all, I don't have, I don't have a problem with you having an opinion, but at least do your research. No one has done in terms of females. No one has done more songs with females than me. Like, literally either me featuring them or them featuring me. So you coming on and saying, I don't support females, that's already wrong. And you have such a huge platform, and people were believing that instead of doing the research, they're just like, yeah, it's true. And I'm like, wait, how many of. Of the songs that I've even done with female artists have you guys even promoted? Right, let's start with that. Like, so you're not even encouraging us to even work with each other because you, oh, you act like you don't see us. So I, I'm very. As much as I'm reserved, I can. Like, I, I, I, I don't sh. Yeah, I'm not scared of no one. I would say any. Like, yes. And if I'm convicted, if I, if I've convicted that I'm saying the truth. My truth. Yeah, you can't tell me nothing. I was cussing him out in my language.

[Juju Green]

And that's why I want you to have a podcast. I think it'll be very good. I think people should be able to ask you questions because you have a level of experience, a level of filter.

[Tiwa Savage]

Though they're always nervous every time I go on because this I Would trend for something.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You always learn how to like do it and know you talking about making mistakes. Listen, if you want a platform, you will make them, but you'll learn how to do it in a way that is like, like beneficial but like still authentic to you.

[Tiwa Savage]

And I think I over share the.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's great.

[Tiwa Savage]

No, you guys don't ever share who. Child, I walk at home today.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You have to have a conversation. I already know I was up here talking way too much this morning.

[Juju Green]

That's why, that's why I can tell like everything you're saying is all the reasons you should have a podcast.

[Tiwa Savage]

Are they big in Nigeria?

[Juju Green]

A podcast, big in Nigeria?

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. Even the streaming thing is getting big. Like, but the podcast. Yeah, but I, I, yeah, I, I make them nervous, man. Like, even the whole like thing you asked me about Tyler and David. Ah, I already know this is this.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You can't do it well though.

[Tiwa Savage]

I always think so. I always think I'm very honest. And even, even me talking about my, the, the relationship and being in a room or whatever. And a lot of people were like, I was over sharing and I'm saying too much. And they're even saying that you're doing this because you want to promote your album. And I'm just like, I don't even know how to lie. If I knew how to lie, I would have lied about my age when I first came out, because I could have easily done that or, or just lied about the whole situation or just created a whole scenario. But my problem is I'll go to another interview and I'll forget what I said and I could just said, he's a doctor. And I'll be like, oh yeah, he's a basketball player. And then I'll just trip myself.

[Juju Green]

Like, why they say, they say you should never lie because when you lie, you don't. When you tell, when you tell the truth, you don't ever have to remember what you said.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, I don't know how to not share the truth or just be so honest. Oh, that gets me in trouble a lot.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think you have a lot to talk about. Like you're a mom and you went through divorce relationship. You know, this sex tape stuff. Music. You could be like a tunnel. And I know you still have your label.

[Juju Green]

Control your own narrative.

[Tiwa Savage]

That's what I tried to do with the sex tape. So I had an interview and I had just gotten the video and that was Angie Martinez. Yes. So I was going there to promote a song and I'm like, I'm Just going to say what it is. And my. Everyone was like, no, you cannot. And I went there and I said it and then they released it anyway. And I'm like, before you embarrass me or think that you're going to get one on me, I'm just going to go on air and say, listen, something's going to come out and they're threatening me and I'm thinking I'm controlling my narrative. And then it backfires on me.

[Juju Green]

Why did it backfire?

[Tiwa Savage]

Because they now said I did it on purpose.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I can't be mad at that because at the same time, whenever the sex tape conversation comes up, people point to that interview and your explanation of it. So it did control the narrative. Like, you got to learn the high level wins and can't be down here with all the low level ones.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You still have three, two, three Entertainment. Yes.

[Tiwa Savage]

No. Well, no, I don't. But yeah, it's. It's still kind of there, but it's not.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That'd be great for you to break artists through as well. I think you should do it.

[Tiwa Savage]

I don't think I have. I don't think. Okay, let me just clear this out.

[Juju Green]

Out.

[Tiwa Savage]

It's not that I don't want to help, but I don't think everybody's cut out to sign artists, especially as an artist. Because you've seen some artists, I'm not going to mention the name. They've signed other artists and what's happened to them. Yeah, because there's still that competition. There's still not to say that I'm income, I'm going to be in competition, but I don't have that mindset. I don't have that. That heart where I could wake up and my artist could be trending about something and I would be heartbroken. I wouldn't be able to control it because I'm like, like what I feel like the way I can give back is by I'm. I'm opening a music school. So, yeah, I'm partnering with Berkeley College of Music. I'm gonna also start with, like, awarding scholarships to African students to come all the way to Boston, learn music. Because I think, like, everybody gets stuck on artists, but there's so many other parts of music. There's music therapy to help, you know, when you have cancer patients. And, you know, there's film scoring, like creating music for movies. There's music education. So, yeah, so there's other parts of it. So that's my way of helping people. I. I I don't have the. I don't have the gift to sign other artists, but I can give back in that way.

[Juju Green]

That is. You are very. That's a very self aware thing to say.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah. I can't. I can't do it. Like, and not everybody can do that. And they'll be very selfish of me to sign somebody else that I feel like if I want to sign somebody else, I need to be out of the game. Yeah. Because I'm gonna be like, you releasing something and you're releasing something. Even if I say there's no competition, they still will be a little bit. So I. I'm not. I'm not there yet.

[Juju Green]

Wow. My last question. No, I understand. I like the self awareness because there's a lot of people that are coming to my mind right now that I'm like, I wish they took that advice because there's a lot of American artists that I'm like, you know what? Yeah, there's one in particular.

[Tiwa Savage]

Say it.

[Juju Green]

J. Cole.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, I thought you think about Kanye.

[Juju Green]

No, no, J. Cole.

[Tiwa Savage]

You don't think he should have signed artists.

[Juju Green]

I mean, I think it was good that he did because he introduced us to a lot of people, but I feel like he had the best roster of artists of any of the artists of that new generation. He had Ari Lennox, Earth Gang, Earth Gang, and Jed.

[Tiwa Savage]

And it's just like, I didn't even know I exercised.

[Juju Green]

Yeah. And I feel like him being as big as he was, I don't know, I just felt like he could have just made all of them bigger, you know, I just felt like Dreamville could have been a lot, lot, lot bigger. And I've heard recently that he feels the same way. That really I could be completely wrong. I could be just making up. But that's what I've heard. That's why. That's why they disbanded.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

See what you just did there, where you got him to have a conversation and now that's going to be a clip and people are going to be discussing that tape. Your podcast will go off, girl.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe you guys should invite me more often and maybe have me speak.

[Juju Green]

Or we could just launch the Teal Savage Podcast on the Black Effect podcast network.

[Tiwa Savage]

Yeah, 100%, I would. Oh, my God, that would be sick.

[Juju Green]

I think.

[Tiwa Savage]

So we're saying this on air. I don't think this is one of the things that should go out that you guys should. You should cut and put out.

[Juju Green]

My last question. What do you hope your listeners take away from this album? Emotionally spiritually. And in terms of. Of healing.

[Tiwa Savage]

I would love them to listen to it from start to finish, not like shuffle it and go on the journey and know that I went through, I went through heartache where it felt like a disease. Like, don't minimize. You know, a lot of people say it's just a heartache. It's not like you've got. Got cancer or whatever. And it's like, yeah, it's not, but it can feel like the end of the world. So I want them to know, to know that they're. Whatever they're going through is valid and. But also listen to it to the end and know that you, you can get through it and you can heal. And that last song change, you know, that's why I say listen to it like, you know, like a journey of emotions and know that at the end of the day, everything does work out.

[Juju Green]

Absolutely.

[Tiwa Savage]

And it will work out. It has to work out. Yeah.

[Juju Green]

Well, it's Ty Savage, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us, man.

[Tiwa Savage]

Thank you for having me.

[Juju Green]

Appreciated the conversation. Thank you, Mr. Breakfast Club. Hold up. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club.

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[Juju Green]

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[Juju Green]

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[Tiwa Savage]

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[Juju Green]

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[Juju Green]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

An I Heart podcast.