INTERVIEW: Tomi Lahren Believes In Freedom, Supports The Trump Administration & Declares She Is Not Racist

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club – Interview with Tomi Lahren Release Date: May 30, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Breakfast Club, host Charlamagne Tha God sits down with conservative commentator Tomi Lahren. The conversation delves into Tomi's unwavering support for the Trump administration, her perspectives on freedom and free speech, immigration policies, women's rights, and the dynamics of conservative media. Throughout the interview, Tomi offers candid insights into her beliefs, experiences, and the challenges she faces as a prominent conservative voice.

---

1. Addressing Accusations of Racism

Key Discussion: Tomi Lahren begins the conversation by directly addressing accusations of racism, asserting her commitment to freedom and clarifying misunderstandings about her stance.

Notable Quotes:

• [00:44] Tomi Lahren: “I sure am not... I’m an open book and I hope after our time together, you will see that for yourself.”
• [14:44] Tomi Lahren: “Sometimes I think maybe less over the years because I've taken so many hits from the right.”

---

2. Support for the Trump Administration

Key Discussion: Tomi elaborates on her support for President Trump, emphasizing her satisfaction with his administration's direction while maintaining that she is not beholden to any political party.

Notable Quotes:

• [01:20] Tomi Lahren: “When we were talking previously during Trump, Edmund One... now I've got a few years separating that and now... I'm happy with everything that's happening so far.”
• [02:25] Tomi Lahren: “I don't play for a team. I don't work for the Trump administration. If they do something I don't like, I'm happy to say.”

---

3. Immigration Policies and Due Process

Key Discussion: A significant portion of the interview focuses on immigration. Tomi advocates for strict adherence to legal immigration processes, criticizes the current administration's handling of illegal immigration, and emphasizes the importance of due process.

Notable Quotes:

• [05:50] Tomi Lahren: “So there's a different process for you than an American citizen. And if two immigration courts say you're gang affiliated... you no longer have the privilege of being in this country.”
• [17:05] Tomi Lahren: “Of course I have empathy for everybody. But there's still a process, because there's no reason that somebody should go through the process and pay a lot of money legitimately and wait five or 10 years because they want to be an American so badly.”

---

4. Women's Rights and Sports

Key Discussion: Tomi discusses her views on women's rights, particularly in the context of sports. She expresses frustration with men's intervention in women's athletics and advocates for preserving spaces for women.

Notable Quotes:

• [23:03] Tomi Lahren: “I would like women to be able to play their sports without men hijacking them and taking away their accolades and their accomplishments.”
• [23:20] Charlamagne Tha God: “I think Roe v. Wade is way more important than women's sports... a woman’s right to choose should always be a woman's right to choose.”

---

5. Controversial Commentary and Personal Brand

Key Discussion: The conversation shifts to Tomi's reputation as a controversial figure. She clarifies that she does not seek to provoke but stands firmly by her beliefs, accepting criticism from all sides.

Notable Quotes:

• [13:55] Tomi Lahren: “I don't go out of my way to be controversial... I really just have a perspective and I'm happy to say it.”
• [20:26] Tomi Lahren: “I just have conversations and I say things that I'm thinking. And not everybody likes it, but welcome to what we do for a living.”

---

6. Responsibility and Impact of Media Personality

Key Discussion: Tomi addresses the potential impact of her commentary, asserting that she does not incite violence and is open to correcting any statements taken out of context.

Notable Quotes:

• [42:58] Tomi Lahren: “I can't think of anything, and maybe I'm wrong that I have said that would endanger somebody.”
• [44:30] Tomi Lahren: “You just can't be in this business and be fragile. No, you just can't.”

---

7. Conservative Media: Policy Influence vs. Virality

Key Discussion: The discussion turns to the objectives of conservative media, contrasting genuine policy influence with the pursuit of viral content. Tomi emphasizes authenticity over sensationalism.

Notable Quotes:

• [45:44] Tomi Lahren: “People are making money off of it now. Like, when I started doing it, I wasn't making money off of it... I was just doing it because I really felt it.”
• [47:22] Tomi Lahren: “I've never said anything that I don't believe for the purpose of going viral or making a headline or a sound bite.”

---

8. Closing Remarks and Call for Dialogue

Key Discussion: In her concluding thoughts, Tomi urges for respectful dialogue and understanding, advocating for a society where people can agree to disagree without animosity.

Notable Quotes:

• [44:39] Tomi Lahren: “I really have learned to not care so much what people think, especially if they've never met me before.”
• [44:38] Tomi Lahren: “If people meet me like we're doing today, that they can be like, oh, you know what? I disagree with her, but she's not like this monster.”

---

Conclusion: This episode of The Breakfast Club offers an in-depth look into Tomi Lahren's perspectives on pressing political and social issues. From her staunch support of the Trump administration to her nuanced views on immigration and women's rights, Tomi presents a coherent argument for her beliefs, emphasizing the importance of process, free speech, and constructive dialogue. The interview provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of Tomi Lahren's role in conservative media and her vision for America's future.

---

Disclaimer: This summary is based on a transcription and may contain minor inaccuracies. For the full context, listen to the original episode.

Transcript

[Tommy Lauren]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wake that ass up early in the morning.

[DJ Envy]

The Breakfast Club.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yep. It's the world's most dangerous morning show. The Breakfast Club. Charlamagne. The God. Just hilarious. DJ Envy is off today, but we got a special guest in the building. The host of Tommy Lauren is fearless on outkick.com Tommy Lauren is here. Good morning.

[Tommy Lauren]

Thank you for having me. It's been a long time coming, so I'm so happy that you had me and I hope that we can have a nice discussion. I love the dialogue. As you know, you supposed to be.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Here back in the day. Day.

[Tommy Lauren]

Way back in the day.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It was the same day when you and Trevor Noah and everybody.

[Tommy Lauren]

It was the day after the Daily show situation slash debacle slash milestone. I guess we'll call it that.

[Just Hilarious]

Well, Tommy, are you a racist?

[Tommy Lauren]

I sure am not. Yeah. Thank you for asking, though. I. I appreciate just coming in hot just right off the bat, but I'm glad we could clear that up and then now we can move forward. There we go.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you get that often?

[Tommy Lauren]

You know, not so much anymore.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah. The time of me being accused of that has dissipated mostly. But, you know, hey, listen, I appreciate the question. I'm an open book and I hope after our time together, you will see that for yourself. But thank you for asking. No problem.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What have you been up to? That was a question people were asking. They were like, you know, where has Tommy Lauren been?

[Tommy Lauren]

Doing my thing. You know, doing my thing on fox. We've been through a couple elections since you and I last spoke. This one went more my direction, I would say, as the. The last one did. When we were talking previously during Trump, Edmund One and you and I talked about, you know, if you would be open to seeing what the President had to offer. And, you know, now we've got a few years separating that and now. And I'm personally, I'm happy with. With everything that's happening so far.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Really. Honest. Come on. Honest assessment.

[Tommy Lauren]

Now, I promise you this. If there comes a time where this administration does something that I don't like, I'm happy to say it. And I don't know if you've seen over the years, but I've taken a beating for going against the right, and I was fired for going against the right. I think that was pre the Blaze, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have no problem doing that. If I see an issue, I'll say it. I don't play for a team. I don't work for the Trump administration. If they do something I don't like, I'm happy to say. All right, so that's not my thing right now. I'm happy. We'll see. You know, we're. We're a few months in.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, you. You were fired from the Blaze after saying you support a woman's right to choose. Did that moment. Did you not realize in that moment that the movement that you promote doesn't really allow true freedom of thought? Because that's what it feels like. It doesn't feel like they allow true freedom of thought or freedom of speech?

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, I'll tell you this. That particular network didn't like it, but the network I'm at now definitely supports my right to free speech. Yeah, there were a lot of people on the right that didn't like that I said that. I'm someone who really believes in freedom. I don't like government intervention. So when I said I was pro choice, it was, hey, listen, I'm personally pro life, but I don't like the government telling people what to do in that regard. And I don't think the government fills that need. I really don't. I think that's a place for family and faith and community to come in during that time. That's hard for women. I don't think the government does it well. So I don't think the government should impede. And I was very forthright about that. Some people didn't like that, and that's okay, but I got eviscerated for that, you know, and I had to go through a battle with a network for that. But that's why when I say I don't play for a team, I don't play for a side, I'm happy to take the hits from my side. If I believe in something, I'm gonna say it. So the left or the right, I mean, I'm kind of a punching bag for both, and that's okay with me.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you feel like a president should uphold the Constitution?

[Tommy Lauren]

Oh, absolutely. It's our duty.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes. So when you see him on Meet the Press and he's asked that question, President Trump, he's asked that question, and he says, I don't know. You can't be happy with that.

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, to be fair, when he was asked that question, it was regarding illegal immigration and what his administration's abilities are now, that's going to end up being decided by the Supreme Court. We don't have those decisions yet. But to say he's just not upholding the Constitution, he. He's saying, well, the Lawyers are gonna tell me how far I can go. So I respect him when he says that. He's not saying, nope, I know the answer. He's saying, listen, this is gonna play out judicially, it's gonna play out legislatively, it's gonna play out, but I'm gonna do what I can to protect the sovereignty of our nation and our borders. And we had an invasion in his mind and in my mind. And we have to correct that. And the voters voted largely to correct that. So he, when he said that about the Constitution, he wasn't saying, ah, I don't know, he was saying, listen, it's gonna play out. And I respect that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

There is actual due process language in the Constitution, though.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah, to me, there's a gray area.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Everybody is the right, everybody does have the right to due process.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah, to me, there's a gray area there. And it depends on what we're talking about. So the position the president has in my position is this. It's a privilege to be in our country. And there were millions of people who came into our country and they said, I don't wanna follow a process to get in, but now I want a different process in order for you to remove me. And what this administration is saying and what many Americans, including myself, feel is, listen, you need to follow our laws. You did not follow our immigration laws. So there's going to be a different process for you than an American citizen. And if two immigration courts say you're gang affiliated, if you've beaten your wife and you have protective orders filed against you, if you're accused of trafficking people around this country, which is a major issue, human trafficking, sex trafficking, then you no longer have the privilege of being in this country. And by the way, you also came in illegally. So the whole due process conversation, that's where I stack up on that. Now, listen, I don't believe people should just be rounded up with, you know, just because they see you and they say, oh, get out of here, but if you came to this country illegally, you are up for deportation. You came here illegally.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, but the Constitution still says you're allowed due process. Now, I'm not even saying that I disagree with, you know, that stance. I'm just saying you, you still have to abide by what the Constitution says.

[Tommy Lauren]

But why did nobody take any issue during the Obama administration when he deported 3 million people without that due process of, yes, you're in here illegally. Yes, the court says you're here illegally, but we're going to deport you because you're in the country illegally. There was no extra due process for those 3 million under Obama and nobody had an issue with it. So now my question is, why now is, is there another level of due process besides an immigration court saying, you're here illegally, you have a notice to be deported?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I've always asked that question. And it's to my knowledge that those people that, because Obama deported more people than any president ever, but those people still were deported, you know, via due process. Like, they didn't just grab them and say, hey, we're shipping you off to an outside world.

[Tommy Lauren]

No, but an immigration court said, yes, you're up for deportation, but the Obama administration didn't give them this extra due process. Or you get a trial or you get.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But if you go through the courts, that's due process.

[Tommy Lauren]

Exactly. In immigration court, which that's what President Trump is also doing. It's not just, oh, they've never been in front of an immigration judge.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The guy from Maryland didn't go through go, go go through due process.

[Tommy Lauren]

Two courts actually not only said that he was gang affiliated, the local PD said he's gang affiliated. A informant says he's gang affiliated. And.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But that has nothing to do with due process. All of that, all of that could be true.

[Tommy Lauren]

Courts already said you're gang affiliated and you're an illegal immigrant. I mean, there was. There's no dispute that he's an illegal immigrant and there's no dispute that the courts say he's gang affiliate.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But it has nothing to do with his due process. I'm with you. But that has nothing to do with his due process. That just means that he has committed some crimes, but he's still allowed due process. And I think that's where a lot of Democrats are getting caught up in. There's. They're so focused on defending his character or what he may or may not have done when we should just be talking about the due process that has allowed people within the Constitution.

[Tommy Lauren]

So do you want him to go in front of another immigration judge then? I guess that's my question, is that he's been in front of immigration judges. He's in the country illegally and has been for many, many years. Right. You not only came to this country illegally, but then since then, you have protective orders against you. Your wife says she's scared of you. Your wife's ex husband said, hey, I'm worried about my kids because my ex wife is dating a gang member. And you got caught on body cam footage allegedly trafficking people across my state of Tennessee. So at some point, it's like, how much more, how many more judges need to say, this cat needs to leave? And I would also ask this. There are Americans who are accused of being gang members all the time. And I feel that they get less benefit of the doubt than someone who came to this country illegally. And that should infuriate Americans that there are people sitting in jail right now who, who I feel probably get less attention, less advocacy, and they're rotting in jail than someone who came to our country illegally and then continued to break our laws and endanger people. So that's my perspective on. And I get what you're saying about the due process.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I understand that's the, that's literally the only conversation. I'm not saying that he shouldn't even, you know, I'm not saying that he should not be deported. I'm just simply saying he should have to go through due process. That's it. I think that, you know, people like to keep saying, well, he committed this crime, he committed that crime. That has nothing to do with the due process that he's allowed within the Constitution. What do you think about Donald Trump taking the plan? Constitution also says you can't do that either.

[Tommy Lauren]

That's another. Again, that's another gray area. I'm not a lawyer.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That gray.

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, because here's the deal. I understand, and I'm not, I'm not fully saying I even support it. I see the president's position. Hey, if they're going to give us this plane, otherwise taxpayers are going to pay for it. We need a new Air Force One, and they don't have it ready for us. They were supposed to have it ready for us. They don't have it ready for us. If Qatar is willing to give us this plane and it can save us some money, maybe we should do it, save the people some money. Donald Trump doesn't look at things like a typical politician. He looks at it like maybe your average person would say, hey, you're going to give me this and I don't have to pay for it. Okay, I'll take it. And I understand there are many people.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Constitution prohibits that.

[Tommy Lauren]

There are many people on my side of the aisle who also agree with you. Like, hey, what are they getting in return? And I need to know that as well. So I'm not saying that I don't. I'm just like, yes, take the plane. I would prefer you didn't, but I understand.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Why would you prefer he didn't?

[Tommy Lauren]

Tommy, I don't want to be beholden to potentially hostile nations in the Middle East.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And you know, it's unconstitutional.

[Tommy Lauren]

I understand your point on that. I don't know if it's. I don't know if it is unconstitutional.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It is. The U.S. constitution prohibits. It's textbook unconstitutional. All I want, regardless of party, is a president who upholds the Constitution at all times.

[Tommy Lauren]

Do you feel like President Joe Biden did that?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, probably not in all cases. But that's why I said, regardless of party, I want a president who upholds the Constitution at all times. I don't think the Constitution should be flexible.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah, well, you know, there are some on the left that want the Constitution to be flexible when it comes to the Second Amendment and, you know, other parts of the Constitution. So some people say it's a living document, it changes with the times. Other people say, listen, it's the original intention. And I think there are times where we probably agree on different points and disagree on others. I take your point, though, about the plane. I'm not cheering for it. I'll be honest about that. I'm like, hey, if we can avoid that, let's avoid that. Let's just not even go into the gray area. I would prefer that. But I see the president sees it as, let's save some money for the American people. I think he really does care about that. I really do believe that he sees things like a business and that's his perspective on it. And I think that he appreciates the gesture, but I don't. I don't love it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's still unconstitutional and it could be a national security risk.

[Tommy Lauren]

I understand that. I don't disagree with you on that point.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It could. The plane's probably bugged. It could be a bomb fall. We know. I'm not. I'm not even joking.

[Tommy Lauren]

I don't disagree with you on that point. I would need to know more as well.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Is it true you're the grandchild of immigrants?

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, I think most of us are grandchildren of immigrants. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because. Because you said America should stop being a dumping ground for other countries problems. Right?

[Tommy Lauren]

Correct.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So at what point did your family's journey stop being noble and start being disposable to you?

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, point taken. What you're trying to do with that. So here's my thing. We are a nation of immigrants. We once had a process for it, and then it became a free for all. We have to know who's coming into our country, the days of coming into this country, and we can agree to disagree on who came in and how they came in. And I'm happy to have the conversation. But when my family or my lineage came into this country, they didn't come into this country and they didn't get a four star hotel room, they didn't get all their meals paid for, they didn't get lodging and health care and schooling and everything that the illegal immigrants that are coming in now are afforded. And they're sucking up the resources from people who really need it. It's really hard for people like me and on my side to rationalize and I think many people that don't have a party affiliation to rationalize importing millions and millions of people into this country, allowing them to use all of our services and allowing them to stay even though they didn't follow the process to get here. So that's the point. We want immigrants. There's nothing saying we don't. We need immigrants, we need them, we love them, we need them, we need process. Do it right, just do it the right way. And if we didn't have so many that came in the wrong way, we could allow more people to come in the right way. And we want to foster that. And I don't think President Trump is anti immigrant. He's married to an immigrant. You know, J.D. vance is married to someone who's come from a family of immigrants from India. Like we're not anti immigrant. Just come the right way. And it's really hard when I see the people in New York City or the people in Chicago or in la, and you see people that are struggling, that they can't afford their daily life and then you see illegal aliens in a four star hotel and you see them getting their needs taken care of and you see Americans falling by the wayside.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You want to see me push back on that one? I agree with that.

[Just Hilarious]

You are often classified as like controversial. That's how people describe you. How much is that of that is intentional and how much of it is really you standing on business or what you believe in?

[Tommy Lauren]

I would say I'm much like you two in that regard. I don't go out of my way to be controversial. There are a lot of people that have found this new media and on the right that they say things to be controversial and they say things to get attention. I don't do that. I really just have a perspective and I'm happy to say it and it's meaningful to me and it's well thought out. I don't just say things. I think about it and I say it and then I stand by it. But I Don't say things just to be controversial.

[Just Hilarious]

Yeah.

[Tommy Lauren]

And I like having conversations with people. I really do. I really do believe that most of us in this country want what's best for this country. We have different ways of going about it, but this is America. That's why we talk. And for too long, we just didn't talk to each other. And I think now the barriers are starting to be broken down in that regard, and I'm really happy to see that.

[Just Hilarious]

Is your bold. Do you feel like your boldness is misunderstood?

[Tommy Lauren]

Sometimes? Sometimes I think maybe less over the years because I've taken so many hits from the right. Maybe, you know, there are people that will, no matter what, they will stand up for Mega and Trump and whatever, and they will stand up for the side, and they will die on the Hill of the side. I don't do that. And I think that that's. That lacks integrity when people do it. So I'm happy if people disagree with me on either side, because at least you know that what I'm saying is actually what I feel. And you can not like it, but it's not something that I'm saying to just bat for somebody. So I hope that at least there's some respect for that. And I think that there is now. And I think things are changing, and I think that podcasting and more people having platforms has added to that, which I'm happy to see.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I want to go back to the immigration thing real quick. Like, this is a hypothetical question. Like, you know, the legal immigration process can take like 20 plus years sometime. Would you wait that long if your children were, say, fleeing a cartel of violence or war?

[Tommy Lauren]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I mean?

[Tommy Lauren]

So I understand your point, and I really do empathize with anybody who doesn't live in the US that wants to get here. This is the greatest nation on the face of the earth, and I understand that. Now, the part about immigration and illegal immigration is this. Those people that are coming over this country, when you're seeking genuine asylum or you're an actual refugee, first of all, you got to show up to your asylum hearings and you got to show up 90 plus percent don't. That's a problem. But coming here because you want better economic opportunities, that's not asylum. And many people that have come over in the last four years, they want better economic opportunities, and I don't fault them for that, but that's not asylum. I'd also say this. If you're coming over because you're fearful of your government or you're in a war torn country or you're in a country that's run by cartels, paying those cartels then to smuggle you into our country does not help your country because you don't come over here without paying a cartel. You're paying 10,000, 15,000, 20,000. And if you're a special interest alien who's coming for nefarious purposes, you're paying more. So you're not helping your country if you're coming from Honduras or Guatemala or Nicaragua and you're funding the very organization that's destroying your country. So that's why we have to get a grip on it for a lot of reasons. I want those countries to thrive. They're never going to thrive if people are paying the very organizations that are destroying them.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But what about people who are fleeing those countries just because they want a better life? You have more. Do you have any empathy for them?

[Tommy Lauren]

Of course I have empathy for everybody. But there's still a process, because there's no reason that somebody should go through the process and pay a lot of money legitimately and wait five or 10 years because they want to be an American so badly and then watch someone skip over them.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But you can understand if the process is literally life or death. If depending on this process is life or death, I got to get my kids out of here now now, or I got to get out of here now or my whole family's going to die.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah, well, that's why we have the asylum process and that's what it's intended for. Unfortunately, so many people have taken advantage of it that the people that need it, they're the ones that fall through the cracks, the ones that are like, hey, I really am fleeing this. My family is in danger. That's why we have asylum. But when you have people coming over here and lying about it, you can't have that. And that's what we experienced in the last four, five years. And it's unfortunate because all that does is hurt the people that need it the most. And that's where I stand on that issue. And I have empathy for everybody, by the way. It's not a matter of, I don't like you, I don't want you here. It's just follow the process so that we can have a process. Because why would anybody wait in line if they can just do it the wrong way? That's really the point we're trying to get at.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You didn't have no empathy with Angel Reese the other day when you called her a hater.

[Tommy Lauren]

Sure did.

[Just Hilarious]

Called her a hater.

[Tommy Lauren]

Why you called her hater? I think she's a. First of all, I think she is a hater. That's okay. Like, maybe we're all haters.

[Just Hilarious]

What makes her a hater to you?

[Tommy Lauren]

I think that she deeply hates Caitlin Clark, and I think there's.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Did you feel that way before RG3 said it.

[Tommy Lauren]

No. Oh, yes. No. Sorry.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Excuse me.

[Tommy Lauren]

So I've seen it since way back in the college days. They don't like each other. Right. I think Caitlin Clark doesn't display. If she doesn't like her dislike for Angel Reese, I don't think Caitlin Clark displays it. I think Angel Reese. I think she likes to be the villain, too. You know, she's.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Nothing wrong with that. It works.

[Tommy Lauren]

And it works.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It works for you.

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, I don't. Well, maybe it works for you, too. I mean, you're a villain in some regards.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All these years.

[Tommy Lauren]

I think that Angel Reese hates Caitlin Clark, and it's okay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Hate is such a strong word. Why can't it just be competitive? Like, we don't. I can't think of too many times we've said that with guys. You know what I mean? Like, they hate each other just because they're super competitive on the court. Yeah.

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, I think that there's always been a rivalry in a feud in sports and in boxing and all of this. But I think when you see Angel Reese and the way she reacts to specifically Caitlin Clark, I think it's hard to dispute that she dislikes Caitlin Clark. And it's okay if she does. Like, you're not gonna like everybody.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, last night, the. The Fever played. I think they played the Atlanta Dream. Was it the dream? Let me make sure it was the dream. I just know her and Ryan Howard got it with the dream.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah, I think so.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, it was a dream, and she got into it with Ryan Howard, and they had words back and forth, and they had to hold Ryan back. And Kaitlyn said, I'm not scared of you. That's just competitive. Nobody. There's no narrative this morning that Ryan hates Caitlyn. I just think it's the rivalry thing between Caitlyn and Angel, and we're just not used to seeing that in women's basketball.

[Tommy Lauren]

We're not. And maybe it's good for the sport, to be honest, bringing eyes to it. So finally, women get. You know, women have been dumped on, in my opinion, for the last five years and had sports hijacked, and they've. You know, they. They haven't had Their. Their due. And now they're being talked about. So, you know, what if Angel Reese is playing it up to get eyeballs, good for her.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Speaking of that, because, you know, we just talked about both of us being villains. Do you ever worry that your brand depends more on outrage than solutions?

[Tommy Lauren]

No. No. Maybe early on we evolve. We all evolve. I think. I don't think any more people would say that about me. Maybe some would, maybe you would, but I don't think so anymore. I don't try to outrage people. I just have conversations and I say things that I'm thinking. And not everybody likes it, but welcome to what we do for a living. You know, if you have an opinion and you stand by it, there are gonna be people that don't like it. But I don't think I do it to outrage people. And I also, to my side, I don't do it to appease people either, so. And I think we're all probably in that boat in doing what we do.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What I find interesting about conservative media, especially the people they call conservative fire brands, they do offer solutions. It's just that the solutions you usually offer cause outrage because people don't agree with the. With said solution. So what do you say to that?

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, on the other side, wouldn't it be the same thing?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah. So I think it's. It's both ways. People are not going to like the way you go about things every time. That's why we have two different parties and we have a party in the middle. Nobody's going to like everything Democrats do or Republicans do. Someone's going to be mad. But it's better to do something than to do nothing. And I think that's my whole thing with the Trump administration. People might not like what he's doing, but he ran on it, and he's doing exactly what he said he was going to do. And you might not like it, but he's not doing anything different than what he explicitly said, I'm going to do this. And now he's doing it. And the status quo wasn't working. People were not happy with it. So maybe we're going to do something different and people aren't going to like it. But I think the worst thing is just doing nothing at all.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But there was a lot of people who said he never really do these things. Like, he would never implement, you know, these tariffs, he would never do these mass deportations. Like, and there was literally people who would hear him say these things and then say, nah, he's not really going to do that.

[Tommy Lauren]

They didn't learn the first time. Damn that he's going to do what he's going to, what he said he's going to do.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When somebody shows you who they are, believe them.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah. And some people don't like it, but I like it. I like the fact that I voted for someone and they're doing exactly what they said that they were going to do. When people voted for Joe Biden, I don't think they voted for Joe Biden thinking, I'm going to open the borders and allow 10 to maybe 15 million people come into this country unvetted, largely unvetted. I don't think people would have voted for that. You know, and, like, be honest, if you're going to run on that and you're like, hey, I respect Democrats that are like, open the borders. That's what I want. Okay, well, at least people can vote on that. But don't tell me you're going to do something and then do the complete opposite. Joe Biden ran as a moderate. He was anything but moderate. So he fooled a lot of people. I would argue Trump's doing exactly what he said. And if you didn't believe him, like, maybe that's on you. But I did.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, you talk about women's rights and you say you support women's rights, but the conservative movement actively works to script reproductive freedom. So what rights do you believe women actually deserve?

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, I would like women to be able to play their sports without men hijacking them and taking away their accolades and their accomplishments. So it's hard for me when the, when the left talks about women's rights and they only want to talk about abortion, but they don't want to talk about women's sports and spaces. We can have both conversations.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think Roe v. Wade is way more important than women's sports, even though I don't want men playing in women's sports. But I think that a woman's right to choose should always be a woman's right to choose that shouldn't be stripped away from her.

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, do you notice that the left has been very quiet about Trump's abortion ban since he was elected? Wasn't that the big concern before he was elected is that he was going to take away abortion? I haven't heard any. Anything about that. In fact, there are more abortions now than there were under Roe v. Wade.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because people can't afford to have kids.

[Tommy Lauren]

Because of Trump, because it. In the four months he's made everything unaffordable. He Came in, everything is great, and then four months later, everything's gone.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Those tariffs have the economy up, Tommy. We got it. Some things we, we have to admit, because they're right there in our face.

[Tommy Lauren]

I say trust the process on tariffs and if they don't work, we'll have that discussion.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But how long is the process? Like our. And to your point, you know, Donald Trump and Elon Musk both said there was going to be a lot of pain, right, because of these things that they were gonna implement, but people can't afford that. Like you got 60% of the country is living check to check. So what, how long is this process gonna be?

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, a lot of the people, I.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Think you can handle it. I can handle it, but most people can't.

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, there is a pause on the tariffs, so we worked out a deal with China. There's gonna be more deals to come. Here's my thing. President Trump is saying we've been getting screwed by the rest of the world. Ripped off, and we're not gonna get ripped off anymore. So countries are coming to the table and they're gonna make deals that are better and they're not gonna be 155% tariffs, they're gonna make deals and then it's gonna be more fair for everybody. We're gonna bring down the cost of prescription drugs, which is gonna help people right now. The big beautiful bill, no tax on tips. So. And extending the Trump tax cuts, which benefit 80% of Americans. So there are gonna be things within this administration that are gonna alleviate some of the, some of the short term pain that tariffs would cause. This president is dedicated to that. I've never seen somebody who cares more about the middle class, working man and woman than President Trump. He is willing to piss off Wall Street, Big pharma, everybody, to try to benefit the American people. I respect that. And a lot of people say they're gonna do it and they haven't done it. The prescription drug thing, how many people have told us we're gonna get down the price of prescription drugs? And they did not wanna piss off Big Pharma, so they never did it. And that goes to our members of Congress as well. They never did anything. And Trump said, oh, why are we paying this? And this country's paying this when the companies that are making it are in our country? No, we're not doing that anymore. I gotta respect that. He's looking out for the American people. And that's everybody who's paying way too high prices for prescription drugs.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I would like for all of this stuff to work. But I disagree that he's looking out for the middle class and the working class because he literally tells the middle class and the working class that, you know, hey, you're going to have to do it out for a while and you know, your kids are going to have to have less toys. And he doesn't say that to the rich at all.

[Tommy Lauren]

Hey, what up, y' all?

[Unknown]

It's DJ Envy. The first few months of 2025 have been quite a year. Work deadlines, group chats you can't escape, and your weird cousin's latest overshare. It's a lot. But here's some good news. You don't have to bring that stress into your car. The all new Nissan Murano is your piece on wheels, thanks to its available features. Imagine sliding into the relaxing, massaging seats that feel like they were made to melt your tensions. Take in the skyline views that let sunlight pour in and watch as your day brightens. I have a special playlist that always gets me right. And with the Bose premium sound system, you too can vibe like you're at your own private concert. Plus, with your 64 color personalized lighting option, you can set the mood any way you want. Be it romantic, chill, or in a straight up do not disturb mode. Let the Nissan Murano be your oasis in a chaotic world because sometimes the greatest rush isn't rushing at all. Drive the all new Nissan Murano today.

[Tommy Lauren]

Panoramic moonroof, ambient lighting, bows and massaging leather. Appointed seats are optional features.

[Dr. Maya Shankar]

Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shankar. I host a podcast called A Slight Change of Plans. I started this show because unexpected change comes for all of us and there's no set playbook for how to deal with it.

[Amanda Knox]

I have all of this psychological baggage that I'm carrying with me and the last thing I want to do is to pass that on to my daughter. So I have to figure this out. This is this puzzle of my trauma. I have to fig it out and I have to figure it out now.

[Dr. Maya Shankar]

Join me this season when I talk to Amanda Knox about her choice to reconnect with the prosecutor who helped put her behind bars.

[Amanda Knox]

This is not about him. This is about me and what I am capable of giving. And I know that I am capable of being kind to this man. And by God, I am going to do it and make no one can stop me.

[Dr. Maya Shankar]

Listen to a slight change of plans on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Debbie Brown]

Giving yourself that agency to not Just be one thing right. I don't have to be the perception that is crafted or the version of me that everyone is kind of projecting onto me. Like I am having my human experience.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And it is faceted.

[Debbie Brown]

It's so faceted and it's fascinating. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and Deeply well is a sanctuary for your healing. I'm Debbie Brown Heale well being expert teacher and fellow seeker. And each week we explore what it means to become whole through soul expanding conversations and practices. Why focus on Tiny Joys? Well, because they remind us of what it means to be human. They anchor us in the present moment and they create ripples of gratitude that nourish our spirit. Tiny joys are acts of self love. To hear this and more ways to prioritize your peace, listen to Deeply well from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts at.

[Tommy Lauren]

And T Connecting changes everything.

[Unknown]

And it's gonna take us to heal us.

[DJ Envy]

It's Mental Health Awareness Month and on a recent episode of just heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. So what I'm hearing you saying is healing is a part of us also reconnecting to our childhood in some sort.

[Unknown]

You said I look how youthful I look because I never let that little girl inside of me die. I go outside and run outside with the dogs. I still play like a kid. I laugh, you know, I love jokes. I love funny. I love laughing. I laugh at myself. I don't take myself too seriously. That's the stuff that keeps you young and stops you from being so hard to hear.

[DJ Envy]

This and more things on the journey of healing. You can listen to just heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts at.

[Tommy Lauren]

And T Connecting changes everything.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, the rich get big tax cuts.

[Tommy Lauren]

Look at Wall street to your point on tariffs. Like the people that were. I understand that there are a lot of people that have their 401ks, their retirement that were really worried about Wall street, but primarily the Wall street folks that he really pissed off with the tariffs. Those are really wealthy people. So he wasn't afraid to piss them off.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think that's what makes him back off. I think it's those people. I think when they get mad at him is when he decided, oh, I.

[Tommy Lauren]

Don'T think he cares at all.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I do.

[Tommy Lauren]

And when you say the short Term pain. I understand what you're saying, but it's the honesty. You know, during the Biden years, they told us it's actually not that bad. The prices actually aren't up. You're actually not struggling. And people were offended by that because they're like, no, we are struggling. President Trump is saying, because of these tariffs and me trying to completely rearrange our economic system, there's going to be some short term pain because other countries are going to try to be big and bold for a few minutes here, but they're going to come to the table because they need us more than we need them. So what he's not saying is like, oh, screw you, I can handle it. You can't. You just pay higher prices. He's saying, let this work. And if we would all join together and let it work, these countries, China can't sustain this trade war. They can't. They need us more than we need them. So he's putting the pinch on them. They will come to the table, and I am very confident we will end up with something better than we started with for the American people.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That sounds good, but when a person has rent due and they can't pay it and they get evicted, what are they going to do? Where are they going to go? Like, all of this stuff sounds good, but we're talking about people who have immediate needs that need to be met. Right now they can't even afford a little bit of pain.

[Just Hilarious]

And there's temporary relief to, you know, help get through that while we have to weather the storm.

[Tommy Lauren]

Right, well, and I understand that point and I understand what you're saying, and I think he's doing whatever he can to try to help people. I'd also say this, the no tax on tips thing, that's gonna help a lot of people. No tax on Social Security, no tax on overtime. He's doing what he can to say, listen, I want those people that, by the way, didn't start struggling four months ago. They were struggling for years when we shut down the economy over Covid and people never really got back up on their feet and their kids were in remote learning and people were just struggling to keep their businesses on afloat. Nobody was really putting the pressure on the Biden administration. Then when we arbitrarily shut everything down for Covid.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, yes, they were. People was out here raising hell.

[Tommy Lauren]

You think so they weren't complying. They weren't going and getting their shots and wearing their masks.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, no, no. I'm talking about people were raising Hell, that's. That's. To me, that's one of the reasons that they lost. They lost because they weren't paying attention to what people's everyday needs were. They weren't paying attention to what people didn't have in their pocket. That's the. That, to me, that's the main reason they lost. And to your point, they telling people, hey, everything is fine, the economy is fine because the stock, stock market is up. The people I'm talking about don't have no stocks.

[Tommy Lauren]

I agree with you. Now, I would also say this. There was such a stress, too, with millions and millions and millions of people coming into this country that stress resources. So when you've got homeless shelters being turned into migrant facilities, when you've got migrants staying in the Roosevelt Hotel and you've got people sleeping on the streets and people, like you said, who can't afford rent and all that, like, that's infuriating. And part of that is these people, I'm sorry, we feel for you, but we've got to feel for our people first. Like, we've got to help our people first. And there's a lot of talk about Medicaid and Social Security and all this, and that Trump wants to take all this away. Trump has been very clear. I am not taking this away from people who need it, but the people that are abusing it, oh, yeah, they're gonna lose it so that the people that need it have it there.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I haven't seen them be surgical about stuff like that yet. Meaning that, you know, they never go in with a fine tooth combination and cut where, you know, they're supposed to cut. They usually just go in with a. A chainsaw, literally, and just start cutting everything. So it's hard for me to believe that they're going to be surgical when it comes to Medicaid.

[Tommy Lauren]

Doesn't it infuriate you, though, when people say, we're going to start cutting, we're going to cut things because we have to, and then nobody has the balls to do it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I want. I want the right things cut. Like, see, that's, that's the thing that even with Doge, right, we've seen in this country the right way to do what Elon Musk and Doge was attempting to do, and that was with Bill Clinton and the National Partnership for Reinventing Government. And in the 90s, they did it the right way. They went in there, they were surgical. They met with other federal workers, people that worked in the federal government. They met with, you know, people who, who People. People who understand. Understand what. What was going on in government. And they cut the right things. They didn't just go in and just start firing people.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah, well, Trump did offer people, hey, listen, if you don't want to come back to work, we'll. We'll pay you through September.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, that's like taking a chainsaw to things. Like, you got to be surgical. Like, that's why they were cutting things that they need. Like, they were actually cutting people from the federal government that they need. And we have a shortage of aviation workers now.

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, we've had a shortage, shortage of aviation workers for many, many years.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And it got worse under those.

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, a lot of the people, they were cut, and I know Sean Duffy personally, the people that were cut through there, they were not people that are your air traffic controllers. They were not your pilots. They were not people in charge of that. They were extra workers. Now, nobody wants to cut anything. Like, nobody wants to take someone's job away. But the fact of the matter is, is we are going to go bankrupt unless we cut something. So at least be honest with people. Be like, we got to cut something, and people aren't going to like it. Like, someone's going to lose something. That's just the nature of the beast.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But. But when you cut something and realize, oh, shoot, we actually need those people and try to hire those people back and you don't have.

[Tommy Lauren]

That's enough. And you got to. You got to account for that. And Elon Musk has. And I'm not. I'm not sitting here being an apologist for Elon Musk either, by the way. I do think things should be more surgical. But when there's so much waste, fraud and abuse, and they go in and they look at this and it's like, my God, we're walking into the house and it's probably a demo mission here. And you try to just fix one little thing at a time. They're like, this is so bad that we might need to shut these entire departments down, and we can reinvent them and we can reopen them, but it's so bad right now, and the drainage is so bad on our resources, we've gotta cut our losses at some point, and then we gotta figure out what we're gonna do next. But there was so much abuse and people going to concerts and government workers renting out stadiums and Caesars and how, like, just getting away with it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, isn't it better to measure twice so you only have to cut once? And once again, we have history that shows us this can be done the right way. And that's not a party thing. I'm just simply pointing out that Bill Clinton, Al Gore, they did it the right way.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And Elon even said one time he tweeted, what I'm doing is no different than what Clinton did in the 90s. Not true.

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, the extent of the waste, fraud and abuse in the 90s is not what it is today. So there's a much different beast to tackle. It's gotten considerably worse because people realized they could have their hand in the cookie jar. No one was looking, so it got way, way worse. I agree with you though. There does need to be a methodical process. I think that that has in the last month, I think that's been more so the stance. You're not seeing Doge doing what Doge did on the outside. They came in very zealous and very excited and I think they've dialed it back.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, because Elon got the fuck out of there because he realized it was affecting his real business.

[Tommy Lauren]

He's still doing it. He' just not as outward on it. But I think they've dialed it back.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They named the new president. Right. The guy who created Project 2025 is the new head of D.O. forgot his name, though.

[Tommy Lauren]

Oh, I don't think so. Elon Musk is still there. He's still working in DO he's just taking a step back from the limelight. Yeah. Yeah.

[Just Hilarious]

We recently broke down new evidence in the Tory Lane's case. Right. And you highlighted a. A Republican congresswoman for pushing for his release. What do you think about conservatives stepping into things like that? Like the high profile celebrity cases?

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah. Well, there needed to be another look into that case and the new evidence that they found and some of the evidence that was. What's that?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's not really evidence. It's hearsay. Well, the point, it's literally like if I was driving a car with Tomi Lauren and I say, I heard what her Tommy Lauren say that she's racist and she wants everybody that's black and brown to be sent to another country. That's. That's literally what this is like.

[Tommy Lauren]

But Charlamagne, I'm really confused because if Tory Lanez actually didn't shoot at Megan Thee Stallion, wouldn't you be the first person to be like, hey, this person is in jail for the wrong reason and if there's more evidence that could exonerate him.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But this is my point is this isn't evidence. It's hearsay.

[Tommy Lauren]

But it's not hearsay. When they, when the, when her best friend is given immunity. And the whole thing is that the friend is actually the one that was shooting the gun and he hit her hand down and then that's why the gun fired at the ground and hit feet. If that really happened and the person that maybe actually did it was given immunity, there's a problem.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And listen, I'm not saying the courts get it right all the time. All of that went through court already. Here's my problem with this situation. And this has nothing to do with Tory, Meg, any of these people involved. It's just simply when something is presented in court and there's actual evidence in testimony, right, that says this happened, why do we put hearsay? Why do we give hearsay more weight than we give that?

[Tommy Lauren]

I think you just have to take it into account. And I would think you'd be the first person to be like, hey, if somebody's in there wrongfully and there's more evidence to possibly exonerate them, we need to take a look at it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Why didn't we take it into account during the trial?

[Tommy Lauren]

I can tell you exactly why. Because George Gascon, who is the now, he was facing two recall attempts, right? And he was desperate to show that he could do a big, high profile case. And if you put Tory Lanez behind bars with enhancements for 10 years, you look good. And it's like, oh, and especially when you're doing it on behalf of a mega celebrity like Megan Thee, Stallion, who has a much bigger following than Tory Lanez and much bigger profile. So George Gascon, who doesn't want to put anybody in jail, by the way, then slap is a 10 year sentence on Tory Lanez and you give immunity to the friend.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But a jury, it was a jury, A jury, A jury. A jury decided Tory Lane's fee, not.

[Tommy Lauren]

Just a judge, but there was enhancements by the da so. And enhancements are unheard of. But what I'm saying is enhancements.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Excuse me, I don't know what you mean. Enhancements.

[Tommy Lauren]

When you enhance the crime, 10 years for what he's accused of, when you, when you add extra onto it and you add enhancements due to the nature of the crime, and you're not willing to do that in many other cases, it's like, why are you throwing the book at this guy?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I didn't think that was throwing the book at him.

[Tommy Lauren]

They threw the book at him for shooting.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

If he did. If he.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah, they threw the book at him. And first of all, it's hard to go to jail in la. And their whole thing on this is this. You need to everyone involved. Because it all actually is hearsay at the end of the day, isn't it? If you're at a house party and it's like, well, she said that he shot and he said that he shot.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Listen, if Tory Lanez is it, didn't do this, I. I pray he comes home. But when you have actual evidence, you know, him making a phone call from jail apologizing for whatever happened that night, you know, eyewitness that said they saw him do it, plus the person who got actually shot saying he. He did it, finding the gun in the car, the DNA was inconclusive, right? Because they said it was a male DNA and female DNA on the gun. If you have all of that, you can see why.

[Tommy Lauren]

Conclusive, though, isn't there some room for doubt there? If there's both DNA on that gun and he. And his story is, listen, this other person is shooting and I'm hitting their arm and this is what happened. He's not saying that. Nobody, you know, that he wasn't at fault at all.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Why not tell that story in court? And the driver that said they overheard Kelsey say that during the trial, why didn't that driver say something then? And what reason would Tory have to protect Kelsey? And what reason would Meg have to protect Kelsey? Why wouldn't Meg?

[Tommy Lauren]

Is that her friend?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Not after you shoot me. Yeah, but that's your friend right there. If he shoots you, you tell him.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah, but maybe if there's a dispute there, and I don't know because I wasn't there, like, obviously Tommy wasn't there. But my thing is, if there's more evidence, let's take a look at it. Because we don't need an innocent person rotting in jail who was nearly killed two weeks ago. If there's evidence to suggest that we missed something here, let's take a look at it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Is he here? Say evidence, though, like, if you're in the car with a driver today, Tommy, and a driver says, I overheard Tommy Lawrence saying X, Y and Z, how much credence should we.

[Tommy Lauren]

Why were we not. Why were we not testing for gun residue on everybody's hands? Why? And if the DNA is inconclusive and there's two sides of a story here, I don't. I think the whole thing ends up being hearsay, doesn't it? So let's take a look. And I'm not saying that I can tell you he didn't do it. I Wasn't there. But if there's more to take a look at, I don't think that someone should be riding in jail for 10 years, getting stabbed and possibly killed. If there's more evidence, let's just take a look at it. That's all we're saying. And I actually think that a Republican stepping into that void and saying there could be a man in jail that shouldn't be and saying, I want to take a look at it and put eyeballs on it. Republicans aren't really known for doing that, so congratulations to her for doing it. Right. I think. Just take a look at it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Has anybody ever told you that your commentary endangered them in real life?

[Tommy Lauren]

Not in real life. People say a lot on the Internet. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

If so, what responsibility you think you would bear for that?

[Tommy Lauren]

Do you think that your free speech, that you should be held accountable for everything that everybody does because they hear you say something?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Depends what it is.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah. I can't think of anything, and maybe I'm wrong that I have said that would endanger somebody. I've never called for violence against anybody. I've never. You know, if people don't like what I say, okay, but. And if people agree with me and then they're deranged and they do something that's not on me anymore than it would be on you. If someone agreed with you and then they wanted to carry out something because they heard you say something and they're deranged and took it the wrong way. I don't think I say anything to endanger people. And if I've ever said anything that I take back, I will apologize for it. I have. I have no pride in, like, if I. Hey, if I said something and I said it off the cuff, and I was really. He did at the time and it was taken out of context, I'll be happy to say, well, let me correct the record on that or let me take a step back on that. I'm not so prideful that I'm like, nope, I'm right all the time and everything I say is gospel. I got. That's ridiculous for any of us to say that.

[Just Hilarious]

This is my last question. How do you protect your piece? Right? Because when people see Tommy. Right. They can just see the commentator, right? And they like the controversial part of you, but you're still a person first. Like just a person first. How do you protect your piece? Do you ever get stressed out in that way that people only see? Some people can't look past who you are. You know what I mean? Like on your show or like what you're known for. Does that ever bother you that people don't look, they just see you for what you do, like the commentator, the fearless, the boldness. How do you protect your piece with that for me, first of all, do you get stressed? And then if so, how do you protect your piece?

[Tommy Lauren]

Sorry, you gotta have a thick skin. You know it. You know it. You can't be in this business and be fragile. No, you just can't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Can't be a smart.

[Tommy Lauren]

And people are not. Some people are just not gonna like you. And I could sit here and I could say anything and I could do anything, and people. Some people are just not gonna like me. And I have to accept that. And that's okay. But I really have learned to not care so much what people think, especially if they've never met me before. That's my take on it. If you've met me and you're like, I don't like her. She's a bitch. Okay, but if you've never met me, just take, take the chance. And some people are never going to get the opportunity. I understand that. Nobody's ever going to meet you and have their personal opinion. I like to think, and I believe that if people meet me like we're doing today, that they can be like, oh, you know what? I disagree with her, but she's not like this monster. I wish we could talk more to each other because I think if we stop villainizing people based on what they do for a living or the opinions that they have, I feel like we could come together as a country and just say, yeah, we agree to disagree, but I don't hate that person. I don't wish bad things on that person. I hope we're getting there. And I think more conversations like this help us to get there.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you think? I only got a couple more questions. You think like, the conservative movement, even the liberal movement, more so, I guess. On, like, cable news networks, do you think they're more concerned with influencing policy or just going viral?

[Tommy Lauren]

I think there are people that are interested in going viral. Sure. People are making money off of it now. Like, when I started doing it, I wasn't making money off of it. Like, I wasn't getting ad share revenue off of it. And I wasn't on X trying to, you know, do the engagement farming so I could get my check from X every month. So I was just doing it because I really felt it. There are people now that realize there is money in it. So you can say crazy. Things, and you can get a lot of clicks and people will talk about you, but you got to live with yourself at night if you're doing it for that reason and if you're just doing it to get the attention and people can see through it. I think people are so good at detecting BS at this point, and they can tell when someone's not genuine and they're just saying it to say it or to go viral. But I don't feel the people that I work with at Fox are very meaningful with what they say. And I feel that the people that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I work with, not all of them now, some of them are just funny. Jesse Waters is just entertaining.

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, he's fun.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But do I believe Jesse believes the things he says? Yes, I do.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But I think he's just up there being entertained. I know Gutfeld is just being entertaining.

[Tommy Lauren]

But they're having fun and that's okay. But I don't think that specifically the people that I work with, I don't think they're doing it to go viral. I really don't. And at Fox, it's like the people that have been doing this for 20 years, they don't what viral is. Like, they know what it is, but they're not. You know, Sean Hannity's not like, let me go viral.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, I don't think Sean's trying to go viral, do you? You said you were doing it at one time, though.

[Tommy Lauren]

No, I said when I was going viral, I wasn't making money off of it. It wasn't like, let me say this so I can go viral and make money or get influence. I was saying things that I felt and it went viral, but I never did it, like, let me say this to go viral today.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think when you know that when you commentate on certain aspects of the culture, especially black culture, you know that it's gonna cause a lot of people to start engaging with you.

[Tommy Lauren]

Sure. But engaging is fine. Starting a dialogue is fine. I think we should start a dialogue. That's why we do what we do. If nobody's having a conversation based on what you say, you probably shouldn't do this for a living. Like, if you just go on and you're like, I'm just going to have a mediocre day today, and I'm just going to say things that are right down the middle and not piss anyone off. You probably shouldn't be in the talk show business or the radio business or any business. But I don't say things. I guess the point I'm Trying to make is I've never said anything that I don't believe for the purpose of going viral or making a headline or a sound bite. I've never done that once. And I've taken real hits from my side of the aisle for things that I've said that didn't go along to get along. So I take it from both sides. And, like, there's a. For me, there's not a calculation that goes into it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Have you ever changed your mind?

[Tommy Lauren]

Sure, I'm sure I've changed my mind. I've evolved on things. Absolutely. You know, and when you, you're in this business and you're in it for long enough, like, you realize, oh, wow, some of the stuff that I said when I was 24, you know, maybe I wouldn't say today at 32, you just, you learn and you grow in the business.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Have you ever had to alter your personal choices and beliefs to protect your image from a base that judges women harshly?

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, people say really nasty stuff to women, so it's not fun when people pick on your looks or they pick on everything about you or, oh, you, you know, I'm not going to sit there and correct everyone that's like, oh, you had a nose job. I didn't have a nose job. But if, if you want to think I had a nose job, whatever. I mean, it's a. Women take it just in much different way than men. Like, they don't pick on what men wear. They don't pick on how they just. Women, it's like, oh, they, you know, this is. Why is she wearing this? She's ugly. Why, you know, why does she wear that? Or why is her makeup, like, whatever, that's fine.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I guess I'm saying conservatives, a lot of conservatives, and I, I really do hate saying conservative, liberal, but I really feel like a lot of conservatives feel like women have a place.

[Tommy Lauren]

You think so?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Tommy Lauren]

I would say there are a lot of women in the Trump administration right now that are in very high roles that are not in the place that maybe old conservatism would say that they would be in because they're running things. Like, women are really running this administration, I think.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you think conservative media elevates fewer women to real power?

[Tommy Lauren]

Not at all. Most of the people at my network are women in high places. Our CEO is a woman. CEO is a woman, and she's a badass girl.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. Okay, so what about, like, I guess for prime time, like, Laura Ingram's the only one that has a show on?

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, Laura Ingram. But I mean, if you. If you look at our lineup, I mean, on right now would probably be Harris Faulkner, who has her own show. And then I'm gonna go sit with her on Outnumbered, and that's all women in one man. And then after that is America Reports co anchored by a man and a woman. And then you go into, you know, Will Kane, and then you go into the five, which is mixed group of people. And then you go into Bret Baer, and then you go into Laura, Jesse and Sean. Yeah. Like, we don't say, oh, we need women here and women there. But we have, like a very good mix. And at my network, when you walk in, the people that are running the things, whether the producer, senior producer, they are women. I promise you, they are women. Women get things done everywhere. But at Fox, women get things done.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Absolutely.

[Just Hilarious]

Do you feel like you fell under the radar a little bit because the people who now have a Candace Owens?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, that's a good question.

[Tommy Lauren]

See, but I don't. Maybe we're motivated by different things. I don't know what she's motivated by. I couldn't tell you. We're not friends. We're more than not friends. We're not friends.

[Just Hilarious]

Gotcha.

[Tommy Lauren]

We're not friendly.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You don't fuck with her. You don't like her.

[Tommy Lauren]

We're not friendly. I haven't spoken to her in years and years and years ago.

[Just Hilarious]

Y' all did speak before.

[Tommy Lauren]

Well, in the business we have, but we've never been friend. Lee.

[Just Hilarious]

Gotcha.

[Tommy Lauren]

Her and I have never been friendly. I don't know. She's gonna do her thing.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Is it like a Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese thing or.

[Tommy Lauren]

Oh, I don't think so. We just are not. We're not friendly. We're just not friends, and that's fine. And she says some crazy stuff sometimes that I really disagree with. I don't like a lot of her commentary. I like some of it. You know, I like some of your commentary and I don't like others, whatever. But my motivations are very. I think my motivations are different. I don't know, because that's. That's her motivations are hers. I can't tell you what they are. I would never claim to know what someone's intentions are. I don't say things to be controversial for the purpose of being controversial. To go viral. To say things that. And maybe she. And she probably does believe them. I'm not saying she doesn't believe them. I don't do that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You feel like she does, though, is what you're saying.

[Tommy Lauren]

I don't. I don't know why she does it. Like, I really could not tell you. And I would never sit here and say, well, I know why someone does something because I don't know. And I haven't spoken to her in many years. If her and I were sit down, I'd be like, hey, do you. And she would ask me probably the same thing, hey, do you believe everything you're saying? Yes, I do. And I asked her. She'd probably say, yes, I do. You know, we. There can be many women that have platforms, by the way. I think that there's this notion that there can only be, like, two women in conservative media. Media. I want there to be a hundred women in conservative media with large platforms and in liberal media and in. In between media and people who don't do politics and media. I want everybody to have a voice, and the more voices that we have, the more choices people have. So I think that that's all part of the conversation.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, Tommy, Lauren, make sure you check her out on fearless on outkick.com when does fearless come on? Every day.

[Tommy Lauren]

1:00Pm Eastern.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

1:00Pm Eastern every day on outkick.com and you can check your commentary out on Fox.

[Tommy Lauren]

Yes, sir.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All right, Tommy, thank you for joining us.

[Tommy Lauren]

Thanks for having me.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's the Breakfast Club. Wake that ass up early in the morning.

[DJ Envy]

The Breakfast Club.

[Tommy Lauren]

This is an iHeart podcast.